₹1 Lakh To ₹1 Crore - AI Business, Solo Founder & Business Growth - Mukund Jha | FO460 Raj Shamani

If you had to build next billion dollar thing, what would it be?

>> Voice is >> very underexplored still.

>> The data labeling business is still very under represented in the economy.

>> Let's say you were to plug AI into Indian government.

>> What would be that one department you would want to enter?

>> I would probably enter defense.

Like you'll have, you know, instead of bigger tanks, you'll have smaller drones. You'll have AI coordinating most

drones. You'll have AI coordinating most of these drone attacks. You'll have

cyber attacks.

>> Quit dumbest AI business quick and it's making lot of money.

>> You know movie match that somebody had built. It's like a Tinder for movies.

built. It's like a Tinder for movies.

You know movie recommendation they swipe left, swipe right and whenever they match it gets stored into their list of movies and on that movie night they actually just open it and say okay this is the movie that we want to watch together.

>> I'm US or China they >> love decades probably. We don't have chips. We don't have energy

chips. We don't have energy infrastructure.

>> What's your biggest worry? I would say probably a rogue AGI model or a general AI system can actually do most of the work that humanity can do today.

>> AI that AI could soon lead to human extinction.

I think that is a big risk right now.

>> If building app and building software becomes easy, what's going to be harder now?

>> Hardest part will be finding the right ideas, distribution, taste and the personalization of software. Like every

business needs a custom software. People

will increasingly get more and more dynamic on demand uh software.

>> Do you think in 5 years coding will just become irrelevant?

>> I think coding will evolve. Most of the work that you we'll be doing is guiding our agents. How do you sort of provide

our agents. How do you sort of provide them feedback? How do you sort of give

them feedback? How do you sort of give them the right objective to go seek?

>> One skill that will become absolutely worthless in next 2 years.

>> I feel the middle is going to be occupied by AI completely. people who

are good at problem solving. Their

leverage will increase multiple. One

person will run millions of dollars worth of company on his own and then you'll have a bottom layer which is just helping AI get better at things and the top layer would be directly AI. In

simple words, what does next give me a play? So I think I will pick All you need is a laptop and an AI tool.

biggest wealth creation opportunity but most people they don't know that it's happening founder and CEO of emeract

episode and to learn more about emergent AI, check out the link in the description.

In simple words, what does doc and production grade just likely mobile.

But tell me, right? versus now you're telling me I

right? versus now you're telling me I just have to write and do it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean um I think coding as a space is evolving right people who don't have any technical background uh you know you don't need to

know coding but technically non-developers nonoders business owners, entrepreneurs, small business.

Yes.

From a small ERP, inventory, whatever, right? to the most advanced ones.

right? to the most advanced ones.

I think I think I definitely think like you know mid-level engineers um you know like they they would probably need to uh

graduate to a higher level uh function right I mean they'll probably become product owners I also think there'll be an explosion of you know entrepreneurship there will be an explosion of people building new businesses in new niches uh right and

and those will be the opportunity that that sort of open up for people right >> but I'm typically worried about India India is known for it dreaming

college then you at a position where you can make some money right 20 years, 22, 23 years, whatever.

>> Mhm.

>> So what will happen to these people?

What do they need to focus on? I

understand that this is how the technology is world is moving towards that get it.

>> But what should these people do now talented or skilled and somebody who's very good software developer, >> they'll they'll thrive, >> right? Right. they'll build it. The top

>> right? Right. they'll build it. The top

1% will kill it.

That will happen right junior or mid level.

>> I think everybody should learn AI right now and and you know get more >> I mean learn VIP coding like on platform like ours on how to build software. I

you know you can actually like build software much faster uh and and you know there is a lot of demand for you to sell that uh right and you should learn how

to automate things you know um how do you build agents uh right and I I feel like we are going to go through this period of uncertainty uh for a

little bit uh right like where new job roles will need to be defined but I think AI is going to give you so much leverage uh key every single person would be able to do a lot more uh and

the growth in economy will be like way way bigger right GDP growth% US right over the next 5 years maybe it's at 10%

right and and kind of productivity that we have not never seen before right so I think the in my mind >> for me that's contradictory >> it doesn't make sense >> what is contradictory

>> this this part like consumption definitely consumption is going to go low for a very and everybody say

but I think it's not like example horse carriage industry cars I think people had the same fear

Like there were roughly about 20 30,000 you know in in like 1900 there were roughly like 20,000 shops

there was a whole industry you know there was a big fear and I mean there was a large part of the

economy dependent right and millions of new jobs got created because uh you know like

cities got bigger right and I think like similar things are going to happen right where I think new like I think and right and but they don't have resources

they don't have you know this thing and they will be able to build build that out and economy growth I mean there are multiple versions in which the world will play out right one version is key like

there will be a lot of abundance right like you know you know like there is enough basic income you know like

>> but that's bad Uh that's going to be bad. I I think there will be like you know some some right and and abundance right like you

know everybody's living in a bigger house everybody's living in in in you know better better light and um the human progress is going to be

exponential right uh over over the next you know decade or so uh and Um >> right now is is really truly the best time uh to to sort of really create a

generational wealth. Uh anybody who's

generational wealth. Uh anybody who's you know building an AI has that opportunity.

>> Tell me one side of generational wealth.

We'll come to how to make money in the AI world.

>> Right.

>> Before that tell me do you think in 5 years >> coding will just become like learning to ride a horse cart like

irrelevant.

it'll just be a hobby not like essential skill to build something bigger.

>> I think coding will evolve. I think most of it will be on how do you guide your agents. Imagine

agents. Imagine and your job is to observe you know you're mostly like a manager right of multiple agents. You're also um you'll need to have very good debugging

skills to identify problem. you'll also

be you know because AI will make some very silly mistake right and you you need to have that observation skill to sort of you know observe that

>> right and um and I think fundamentals still matters and right if if you are somebody who can actually um because like you'll be

throwing let's say millions of dollars you know on let's say some agent authentic run which is you know like let's say I said build me the next Google right >> and I'm going to give it a million dollar and let the agent sort of you

know go and build build that thing right and now the the somebody who's controlling that so the the cost of failure is pretty high right so somebody who who can sort of look at that manage that probably like I don't know maybe 3 years out four years out uh but most of

the work that you we'll be doing is essentially um you know like guiding our agents uh like you know how do you sort of provide them feedback how do you sort of give them the right objective to to

sort of you know goalsek tell me if somebody's watching this right now >> right so let's let's build next couple of minutes over just this one person who

wants to build make lot of money okay if I like give you you know what's going on in the world and AI is you're pretty dominant on that >> right

and next months give me a playbook. Step one, step two, step three, step four. What would you do?

So I think I will pick there must be something that you >> What would you do? Let's just forget everyone. Let's say you're not founder

everyone. Let's say you're not founder of emergent >> and you are just a random dude under 30 sitting in

your 20ies. Right. Right. And like

your 20ies. Right. Right. And like

I will probably one start um building in public uh so that I have I start building my distribution on you know day zero because I think

But it's it's hard to build them publicly. Secondly, I will find

publicly. Secondly, I will find like you can learn about key you know let's say you know bank or you know you are doing some insurance paperwork or you know like maybe you are doing some

um you know um video editing these kind of things right whatever work you are doing you you can sort of you know look at that workflow and say hey what parts

of input output can AI do today can I package that as a you know as a AI tool or as a AI uh platform right and I would start you know like automating that part

and start selling that uh to people um as as the first step because >> every single because people who are very close to domain right like AI is because AI is very general right like it still

requires a lot of input into you know key workflow automate right and I I would say like there will be new

kind of industries that will get created right now right like every single industry is going to become AI first right like I mean a lot of the old industry will disappear and and there will be like bottom up AI first industry that will get created

>> right so I would say that the the the playbook I would follow is that hey whatever work you're doing figure out okay what are the parts that AI can automate um can you sort of you know um you can build that on emergion today right you can you know like automate

that part of the things start selling it to you know people around you right and and and then sort of grow from I'll I I asked this question to

one of my strategists, okay? And he came up with an idea which I really like.

Okay. I think he found it on some real or >> maybe he found it through GPD or I don't know but I think it's an interesting idea right

>> the easiest and the fastest way which is almost like proof is this that local businesses maybe let's mechanic.

Find out and list down everybody high value and call Google map

then go to GPT copy their business name services what they do etc etc value just starting left, right, center in India

still website right right like there's no like there's no website in fact >> it's funny that I don't have a website >> really >> yeah I don't have a website like we've

been seeing website >> since years but it's like >> I must have spent >> insane amount of money by just paying to

agencies and not being getting back to them with answers like right >> so they can do it I think it's one of the easiest way to make money >> go find out businesses

right and >> right right I agree I think a lot of people are doing that on right now >> left right center you'll make money right almost at no cost

>> right yes I think I think Cost arbitrage is pretty big right now.

>> Very big. Right. And people can the bigger the business you are able to find and the better the salesman you are, the more money you'll make.

>> Yes. Yes. Uh I've heard a lot of software salesmen also uh like people who are great at software selling.

They're building on emerging and and you know because they have so far lacked the skill of building software and now they're building it and and so it'll work. I know.

work. I know.

>> Yeah. small business

like >> they're probably small traders who don't know right >> who don't even have time they're like those you know those uncles 50

right it's good >> just good to have just start selling that so that's one way I thought it's good to

Yeah, that's a great idea. What do you think is one like simplest or maybe maybe I should

say dumbest AI business and it's making lot of money and it looks like dumb cheese normal cheer but still is making money out of emergent to doing something >> even a site built on emergent um I think

there are a lot of ideas making a lot of money on emergent right now I saw yesterday there was this website which um is buying uh gift cards right used gift cards or unused gift cards, right?

And and it has like half a million views right?

US website, but Amazon gift card you pre you sell it at some super price like and and you know that person probably has another you know way of uh uh you know like he's buying cheap and selling

somewhere else right and willing that that money. So I think you know like

that money. So I think you know like people who have ideas who are closer to the domain right I think for them it's very easy to now distribute their ideas uh and and build on emergent um really well

>> but what's something very silly and simple which you have seen somebody making money out of >> money but but it's it's very simple and and one of the early ideas that I saw

earlier was this um you know movie match that somebody had built and there was a couple and they had a problem they would fight on the movie night concert >> and Again this is a very personal

problem right key and what she had built again sitting on her couch under an hour that it's it's like a Tinder for movies and both of them get get these you know movie recommendation they swipe left swipe right and whenever they match it

gets stored into their list of movies and on their movie night they actually just open it and say okay this is the movie that we want to watch together.

>> That is so cool. Yeah and she built it under now and again like people have a lot of these ideas which had just been you know sitting there she had faced this problem a lot of time she had thought you know

we spend an hour deciding right and there's lot of these ideas bu getting bu today where like people are expressing their personal you know problems converting them into something useful yeah >> that is so cool I would want that

happening >> yeah available >> tell you what's the name I >> I think it's moviematch.com or something I'll send you I'll download if there's an app.

>> Yeah, I think it's a website, but huh, >> it's sick.

>> I would give it to all my friends, >> right? And I will have like individual.

>> right? And I will have like individual.

Right. Right. Right.

>> This is pretty sick. I like this idea.

Pretty cool.

If Okay. And if you were if you had to build next billion dollar thing, what would it be?

today let's say if you were not building emergent >> I mean I would probably pick a industry or a vertical and completely try to rebuild it with AI >> like any any

>> mean example >> for insurance uh like I mean you pick you know any large industry today right and um you know like just completely

like maybe you know buy like an old school uh company uh and just you know like infuse it with AI think with re imagine with AI and and rebuild it completely.

>> That would be one. I think

voice is very very very underexplored still. I think voice voice AI is going

still. I think voice voice AI is going to explode like it's already um >> I I like whisper. I I've used it a few times. Uh

times. Uh >> um >> but I think voice is still very underappreciated, you know. Uh I I also think that even though it feels like labeling business saturated uh right

with Merkor and bunch of those people I think the the data labeling business is still very very very under uh represented in the economy. Tell me

voice you said voice is going to be a big thing >> right so I mean Google may like India 50% searches are voice right and I mean that at least that was the number that I

heard last time um and if you look at like voice interfaces are still very very brittle right like I mean you know like there no I mean I haven't found a

good note taker yet uh right and I haven't found uh you know like even you know just just just if you look at if you even if you do charge right now like the conversational

abilities are low, right? And if you imagine that voice becomes the primary input into the world, right? Like what

are things that you would build, right?

I think that problem is is fairly unsolved yet.

>> But then your problem is don't you think it's like he's up against the giant. It's like GP

or Gemini Google at some point because they are doing it.

I mean you'll have you will have to build a new you will have to build a new distribution you'll have to build a newer voice model like your problems are much bigger than

>> because because chat GPT anthropic Google I'm sure one of their out of the five things they're trying to solve one is voice >> yeah I would probably pick one industry that I will start with right like voice

for this industry maybe right like and and solve for that because you'll need very deep domain knowledge you know for for for that kind of industry, right? Uh

and um I think even some of the bigger bigger like if I were to do it like I'll probably you know like even pick pick something like biology, right? like drug

discovery, you know, like some of those things like are potentially multiffold exponential return like because so far like they've

been sort of solved with traditional uh things but AI apply it's a whole new thing right key you know protein folding you know drug synthesis simulation

um I think at those intersection things things are things are pretty pretty wild and but I would say the you know like easiest would be to pick an industry

that you know well uh right and just think of an AI first version of that. Um

I'm pretty sure the incumbents are going to take their time to sort of infuse AI into a bureaucratic system. But if you just start bottom up saying that hey what would you know let's say podcasting with AI look like?

>> What do you think I should do? Let's say

hypothetically if you were me and I was like okay Raj you're getting linear result linear results you're growing incrementally let's grow you exponentially and get you non nonlinear rewards >> right >> what would it look like what would you

do if you were >> I mean you can jam uh like some ideas but like I I would probably start building AI models right like which are very representative like looks very much like human create them online uh

distribute them so that I have IP on them right and popularize their brand and so I'm not restrained by my Right? And they'll be an expert in every

Right? And they'll be an expert in every single thing. Uh, right? Or maybe I'll

single thing. Uh, right? Or maybe I'll create versions of Raj, which is, you know, an AI Raj uh, which is, you know, like an expert in in AI, expert in, you know, politics, right? And then, um, you

know, like reach out to a lot more people, right? And, and, uh, you know,

people, right? And, and, uh, you know, um, for example, I'm sure there are a lot of people that you would want to talk to, a lot of people who would want to talk to you. How do you enable that digital version of yours? I would

probably create, um, I mean, you know your distribution side like how do you sort of you know exponentiate that using I will probably think in that direction

um also um you know like uh content creation is going to get uh relatively easy right with V3 all of these coming out right so how do we sort of you know like be on the edge of that like figure

out what are the nuances how do we sort of do that um and I would also look at traditional traditional sort of media industry and you know traditional let's say ad

industries that you know like can be disrupted today right with AI and and how do I sort of you know uh dip into that >> uh and and grow there

>> got it and hypothetically let's say you were to plug AI and your problem solving ability or maybe emergent tool >> right

>> into Indian government >> okay >> what would be that one department you would want to enter and how would you disrupt it to make it better?

>> I I would probably enter defense.

>> Okay.

>> Yes. because

I think defense is going to get like you know like the whole playbook is going to be rewritten over the next decade right like you'll have you know instead of bigger tanks you'll have smaller drones you know you'll have AI coordinating you

know like most of these drone attacks you'll have cyber attacks >> um you know like I think u especially with with you know AI and and now like you know robots and all of those things

like I think the whole defense playbook is going to get get completely you know flipped right and and I think there's a lot huge opportunity to create like an online from India right and and um you know I mean that would have been

one of the things I would have been doing if if not emergent right like so because I think very few times you have this kind of disruption where like your old you have necess so heavily on some certain things but you know like they

are going to be uh you know worthless against an AI attack right and and um and so I think there's a huge opportunity there

you know I also from national security perspective. So when you were talking

perspective. So when you were talking about this and asking I was asking you opportunities a question hit me that >> if all these jobs disappear

>> the Indian dream was uh work like study hard become an engineer go to big software company or like TCS proof

whatever right this was fairly a low middle class middle class Indian dream right >> this is being dead now this is almost dying >> what's the new Indian dream what should

be the new Indian dream >> I think to launch their own business uh to get into entrepreneurship uh to you know build in India you know like using these tools and and um you know

distribute I I I just think that you know like lot of people um I also think that India should have big aspirations to you know like just

build big global companies like for example like >> why has there been no Google or Facebook from India so far right and when I came back to India I actually like came back with this dream that hey we'll build you know the next Google next Facebook out

of India and that's what we're doing with emergent right now right like our goal is to you know be as big and successful as one of these tech giants right and I think India has you know

like hugely deep talent uh right and you know it it requires um little bit of mindset shift right saying that hey we can do it a little bit of courage

and let's try >> and I think people once they start you know thinking big uh they I think we can compete everywhere right and and and like really really win because you know

like we are a very talent dense country right and like super high IQ >> um and um and I think especially now is the time

to like really really you know outdream yourself uh right and and think big and and and just attempt it because you know like the cost of attempting things are going to keep coming down right so you know you can take take more shots at the

goal right think bigger uh and generally at least from my mindset like you know I always I always think think in that direction yeah >> but what's what's the real scenario we're behind

right now we're much behind how far do you think we are you have to compare with us and China these two are seen as >> the larger countries than India Everyone

else more or less India looks like it has the potential to beat or have beaten already. Right. This is only US or China

already. Right. This is only US or China >> actually.

Yeah. Decades probably

>> decades.

>> Yeah. I mean we don't have chips. Uh we

don't have energy infrastructure. Uh

right. And um and I think it's going to take us to to like to you know like to build sovereign um AI it's going to take us some time. Uh but the benefit is also

that um things are going to get easier right and and and uh but you know like I feel like um

I feel like you know like India is sort of waking up to this now like as as more and more you know like uh you know opportunity people see the opportunity like I think you know people

are going to get on it and also the um the need the need is is right now that you know we sort of jump on this bandwagon and and and >> but where should we lean today which

side US or China because >> look at the landscape right it's it's very difficult for India to When I remember there was a point deepseekion

right in a single day.

>> That was insane. So yes, right.

>> Which side is winning?

>> I mean right now I think America is winning. Right. Because

winning. Right. Because

>> so then but then they're heavy. They're

charging. there's something going on >> and and the other other side maybe India which side should we lean on?

Yeah, personally I I would feel that um you know like given the democratic values uh right like US is a better you know society and all and I think technologically also they're like way

more advanced right now and I think open source like uh permission is going to happen from us also now not now that a lot of people are sort of you know building open source um and um but yeah

I think China is is a very like serious contender right now in the whole thing uh and especially given their strength in robotics you know, energy energy development,

right? And and uh especially given that

right? And and uh especially given that they're neighbor also, right? Like it's

it's it's going to be, you know, like a hard play. Yeah.

hard play. Yeah.

>> And do you think they're going to US and China, they're going to become friends?

Because Trump just started doing >> Trump allowed Nvidia to sell chips to China at a 25% hike, right? At a 25% price point. to start to

price point. to start to >> huh I think eventually yeah eventually economics will will dictate a lot of things right and and I think there is a economic I I think the

fear there is that uh if if they don't start selling you know like they're going to develop theirs much faster >> right and I was also surprised to read the news uh and and uh

>> it's good or bad >> I think it's it's good uh because Um in general I think overall like I'm a very big fan of capitalism right I think overall uh you know as as you know like

if China is building better models like that heats up the competition you know like pushes everybody forward >> right and um from my perspective I feel that um you

know like if we are headed towards you know the AGI and everything uh right I think um some of these things will get very very um

out of control which we we can't see right now.

>> What's your biggest worry?

>> I would say probably a rogue AGI right now. explain

now. explain >> AGI and then AGI.

AGI essentially means when you know the the I mean everybody has their own definition when a model or a general AI system can actually do most of the work that

humanity can do today right knowledge work right and critic and and is is sort of sentient right and >> it happened right recently Gemini

improved itself >> I mean those are very minor >> it's a start start to A large language model improved itself without any instruction anything just going on and

on this >> race of becoming better to just pass that test. So it had it had knowledge that I was being tested and it was able to fake that test. Huh. Right.

So I think I think that is a big risk right now. key like nobody knows what is

right now. key like nobody knows what is on the other side of you know AGI SI you know are we in a terminator scenario are we in a matrix scenario uh right and

like we would have thought that this is like a very um uh fictional thing but like but people who are closer to the field like they truly understand that

you know key it is it is a real possibility >> time computers and this AI computing whatever technology will become way more

powerful than humans >> and decisions. So they will run today.

We control it because we ask them to do certain things and they do the task.

>> Tomorrow we don't need to do that.

They'll do it themselves.

>> That's right. So

>> that's essentially the age of AGI, right?

>> Yes. Yes.

>> And then you said rogue AGI.

>> What's your worry with rogue AGI align like it thinks?

>> Give me a scenario.

I mean doom doomsday scenarios here just you know like um AI is optimizing for you know creation of factories uh and

robots and clears out cities saying right it could be that it manipulates humans uh to believe certain things uh

right and you know um you know expands I think I think all all the all the like bad movies on AI that we have seen remotely possible

influence to clear out the city and then you're gone maybe yes possible you know like once decides

I mean again this is possibility but I mean that's why alignment is very big research right now and Open like um

preparedness, readiness uh you know um function from this doomsday very low probabilities and uh but could

be anywhere between you know I mean it keeps changing like next year we'll we'll see the next big pre-training happen GPD4 model

pre-train next year now lot of computers becoming available this year uh so we'll see like the next step

>> I mean I think we'll have advanced AI like closer to AGI uh I I I think like in five to seven years that is my like rough estimate right now

>> crazy yeah No, I think uh things are going to move fast. Huh. And and people

fast. Huh. And and people >> What's long-term in this then? Because

we're talking 2 3 years 2 3 years 2 3 years business like everything is just somehow come under

like under four year cycle.

So what's long term like do you think the long term long-term is only next 6 months? No no I mean I feel key so

months? No no I mean I feel key so capabilities will start emerging uh right it'll take time to permeate through society. uh there will always be

through society. uh there will always be there is obviously be some some you know and again this is again extrapolating it could be that we have so there is this concept key fast take off slow take off

right slow um and like I mean the outside chance is like we will be on the cusp of technology um you know which uh is

supernatural Right. And I think people are talking a

Right. And I think people are talking a lot less about it right than they should because if I agree like you know like if that is a possibility I mean beyond that

horizon you can't see right now okay what happens right and and and uh you know but um at the same time I think u

like who gets to AGI first is also important right and like um who has control over it is also important right

uh And um it it it could be like it is is distributed uh right and um used for good. It could be that it is military

good. It could be that it is military controlled uh government. I I mean there'll be scenarios like that that that that is going to play out. Uh and

like at least in probability space >> you know I I'll give it some probability.

>> You started the conversation with something and I want to end that conversation with again understanding the thesis.

>> You said cycle.

>> Right. Right. countries

already companies are more powerful than large majority of the countries.

>> Right.

>> Right. And then eventually individuals >> tell me explain >> right >> companies countries powerful >> economically uh right for example Nvidia

today right like um literally controls like the future of AI in many ways right and and u I'm just saying church or state

right like like it was clear that church was the uh authority right and it was then you like there were ideological differences and then people sort of went

there and generally what I've seen is key like historically there are these cycles right like where something will it could be that you know like religion is is the next thing that comes up again right like people want faith because

everything is artificial >> and like you know only thing that I can attach myself to is is faith right maybe religion makes a comeback right >> so things move in cycle right and at

least the way sort of I'm I'm um zooming out when I zoom out and and see And every like markets have cycles you know like seasons have cycles so so cycles are everywhere and and if you want to

predict what's going to happen in future like you'll have to intersect some of these cycles that okay you know what what's going to happen for example we are in a massive technological cycle right now so technology progress is

going to continue um you know we are also in a massive u I would say the trust is eroding uh generally right so so you'll have to see that we were in a high trust society we're moving to a low

trust so some some societies is like for example India was a low trust moving to a high trust right so I think generally the the way I sort of try to predict you know the the future what's going to happen is is look look at the world in

this you know like which cycles are we on right now and I don't know it's going to happen in like 10 years or 50 years huh but it is clear that you know like nation

um and governments right you know you can see you know what's happening uh across the world right um there is a like a natural sort of you know threshold to that right where you

know obviously like companies are going to get bigger become become bigger right and then you know government wants to intervene at that point if somebody's controlling you know like a really uh

strong piece of technology right like uh what do they do right so I I I think like those are things that are you know like quite uh one skill that will become absolutely worthless in next two years

>> I mean the way I think about it and and I'm also nuancing it right is the the middle will disappear, right? But

but let's say let's say let's just take example of design, right? Do you think design like of course AI is going to get getting better,

you know, app, but the taste, right? You

still require that you know like that 1% human on the top who is actually able to direct and and give the right input and you know like generate a better taste will have a lot more leverage, right?

because you know they can do that and obviously at the bottom you'll have this layer where like 99 percentile 99% things are working but that 1% is not working

you'll need like a lot of people at the bottom to sort of fix that right and at the tops I think the I feel the middle is going to be occupied by completely right and

original thinker people you know who have good taste people who are good at problem solving like um their leverage will increase multiffold like one person will run you know like you know millions

of dollars worth of company on his own because he can direct most of things and then you'll have a bottom layer which is sort of fixing a lot of the AI um issues or training the AI right a lot of the

work will become key you know train one of the thoughts um I have is key you know like people will

say in every generation what happens is key you know like this is this is saying that your you know your work >> work today is going to feel like play tomorrow right so let's say if you you

know like let's say go to your grand greatgrandfather and say hey you know my job is I sit you know chat with interesting people right and that's how it say

right if you go and see somebody who's who's a gamer today right and they'll they'll tell their greatgrandfather key you know I sit on the computer and play games all day that's how you make make money right it's going to to them it's

going to feel like hey yeah this is a play right I think the same thing is going to trend is going to continue right I feel that a lot of people you know to to them the work is going to start becoming like play maybe they are

just you know playing games to train AI maybe they're you know like just looking at content and and you know like training the I think lot of lot of the people's work will will be sort of you know just helping AI get better at

things um at the bottom layer and the top layer would be to direct the direct the AIS >> interesting And I feel uh

like one of the things I can be wrong here. I'm just saying it from a very

here. I'm just saying it from a very non-developer, non- techy side of things. So just don't go like don't

things. So just don't go like don't don't put me on the spot for this. But I

genuinely feel that people are obsessing over this one AI skill which is prompt engineering.

>> Okay.

>> I think it's going to die.

>> I don't think it's like that important going on. like it just

going on. like it just the basics and the fundamentals people need to learn. They need to learn how to be more clear and more nuanced in order to give instructions, >> right?

>> They don't need to do these like giant 10day courses for prompt engineering and just obsess over it basic prompt engineering framework. I think all of

engineering framework. I think all of that is like crap, >> right? Like in fact I feel at least my

>> right? Like in fact I feel at least my experience have been >> my my models give me much better answers when I'm much more casual than when I'm trying to

>> force >> force like she's putting a framework of doing this and that >> right no I agree I think I think you know like I mean we are seeing that emergent also right I it used to require

you to prompt in a very detailed way right and like now even simple prompts are you know like working you know as good Because of course there there is like this you

know back and forth of you know what has AI understood so so far about you right?

Um and um yeah I think I think I I think all skills are are you know like um going out of fashion in some way

out of fashion >> because middle AI is going to keep keep eating right and I think the the race is that okay are you the one who's directing the AI right in the right way

and um and I I think I mean I think I also think that where like things get stuck

is AI is not able to understand the problem is helpful there right you know it's it's vague and and is it able to

get and as memory improves you know is it able to get lot more context you know like simplify but till then you know like I think

prompt engineering is is is quite uh relevant till then >> till that in future I'm saying today it's relevant today people get more

results from but I think in in some time >> I did couple of courses and I'm like >> this this doesn't >> I mean it's great to learn but

>> I think it's going to be relevant at some point >> maybe 2 years 5 years it it's not going to make sense like the obsession and the >> intensity which people are learning from >> it's I think it's going to disappear in

a while Because more and more people are going to build tools and things like yours >> which and your obsession at one point or like open AI's obsession or anthropics obsession will be that how can I make it

easy for >> a very normal person how can I make the system idiot proof >> right and because you're going to be obsessing over that so you're definitely

not going to obsess over how do I reward somebody who's like an excellent prompt engineer you're going to be like you're going to obsess over that.

>> So if you guys are successful, which it looks like you will be.

>> Yes, definitely.

>> So then, >> right, >> prompt engineers.

>> I think I think the the like the role of prompt engineering reduces, but again then they'll they'll still be like better prompters like who who would probably command 10x more

>> leverage, right? Um you know because they're able to unstuck system somewhere. Uh so I as I said like my

somewhere. Uh so I as I said like my mental model right now is that middle is going to get >> hollowed right and at the bottom layer like people are sort of training the AI right mostly you know correctly >> top 1% are builders

>> top 1% are builders and and I think I don't think that and the top 1% can be a large part of humanity right I don't think this is the 1% of humanity right I think the amount of work that we need to get done right like if we have to go to stars you know if we have to solve every

single disease uh if we have to solve you know teleportation uh right um the amount of work that that just humanity needs to do, right? Like is is is insane, right? Like I mean so you know

insane, right? Like I mean so you know like I mean you know this is the time to sort of you know imagine that we can go to next galaxies right find new theorems solve quantum computing solve quantum

mechanics. But if tell me if

mechanics. But if tell me if app building gets easy right >> I've played with your tool a lot

>> so what gets hard if building app and building software becomes easy what's going to be harder now

>> so I so if you look at you know like Um >> because if everybody can build >> Yeah.

>> Right. Everybody can build app. Today

somebody earlier the moat used to be right.

uh >> what's the hardest part?

>> Hardest part will be finding the right ideas, distribution, uh taste, right?

And again I think process like finite resources right the need for software is infinite like you know like you will have on demand software right

like you you >> you know like we were talking about this you know like uh Christianity and other things right like >> you know we would just prompted and say like you know show me a dashboard of you

know top religion and history and those kind of things right so I think the the I the personalization of software like every business needs a custom software right I feel that one thing is for sure

that teams are going to get smaller right you'll build likeally there was a big debate

management software right and somebody actually internally just coded a new project management app and everybody moved to that now and so we gave up on like $2,000 per month of

subscription of Asana and built this entire app internally and entire company has moved to that now right and so you you'll see a lot of that happening that where and and because the reason was key

you cannot have sprints lower than a day or week you know morning evening night no tool was supporting that

and this was like a you know senior QA engineer who just built on his own because there was this you know like commotion going on internally and we gave up on the subscription we were paying $2,000 a month right and we are

seeing this across the or right like where you know how are we tracking this how are we doing that >> but is it as effective asana >> it is actually pretty good for us right

because we don't need so many things uh and software is in our control it is evolving the way we want it uh it it's it's because 90% of software gets built you know like a lot of people use only

the 20% the basic right and and a lot of it is bloat right and and or you need like a lot of people to come in customize and because now people will be able to customize

>> and every company every um system like will have their own personal needs right so I think my my thesis is that like need of software is going to continuously increase uh people will

increasingly get more and more dynamic on demand uh software I also think the nature of software is going to change because a lot of will be just an instruction to an agent. You may not even need a software to

>> here's no worry. Here's no worry. So

because I'm moving to sana, right? And I

know this I worked on this tool before and now the company is getting bigger.

Project management is becoming a pain WhatsApp. So now you have to do

WhatsApp. So now you have to do >> right >> okay we're going through that transition and we were like click use asana bunch of other things going through the same right

>> I like asana because simple right >> click is probably better for customization but complicated I don't want it at least for

my work right >> and then my worry is if I build something I don't have to think about is it getting better is it getting worse company's taking care of it,

>> right?

Um initially maybe huh right and um software maintenance is also going to

get very easy right now and deploy we take care of your scaling we take care of all those things right you can come and customize it as you want right and you know you'll have different you know

versions of it that you want to run and initially obviously there'll be some you know hiccups key you know like you're meing sort of maybe somebody else is going to build like a you know you know a simple simpler uh cheaper Asana uh

right for and and say hey this is a task management software for >> you know people who are running a podcast business right or a media business right and like this is like really really tailored for you right

maybe you'll buy that custom software versus >> buying um >> any other >> Asana right which is so Asana is is great but >> and expensive >> it is expensive and it has a lot of restriction like why why does Zera exist

because Zer is a lot more complex like you can do a lot of things like you know divide teams you can you know manage sprints and other things right >> and so there's there's obviously like you know a difference between like Jira

which is a lot more complex uh and >> and but I think there's there's be this wave of you know new software that's going to get created which is very very personalized to your sort of need right and you'll probably have

>> and who does the maintenance >> like you'll have to have somebody from the team doing it again >> right and I I mean like >> or do you guys have like a service

>> under the product business that you have >> we don't have it right but you know like there will be emergent experts who will sort of maintain the software for you I think there'll be like a new cottage industry that'll sort of you know like

uh spring up you know as as the wipe coding movement sort of takes up uh where you'll have parallel economies running where people are maintaining your software and you can sort of you know build build things on on them them

but I think the way AI is progressing I think a lot of power will goes to the end user right this is my individuality thing also right like you know like you you like once Once you start trusting it

like you you'll say like hey you know right I I I don't you know and and it'll happen and I mean may and maybe like you know you'll start with one version of

the software right and and and then sort of you know like you know give it to somebody else to sort of build it maintain it uh right as you sort of learn more but you can totally see you know there'll be like a task management

software for your industry or for your for you which will be built at a very cheap cost uh and and you'll have full control over it.

>> You know, at at one side there are a lot of people who are scared of losing their jobs, >> right?

>> And then they're at one side where people like you sitting out of India building it for the world. You are

growing at a crazy pace, >> right?

>> You're raising millions of dollars.

You're generating millions of dollars of revenue. You're you're killing it,

revenue. You're you're killing it, right?

>> Right.

>> And you're building this big thing. So

there's a fair shot of you making it big. You've already built businesses

big. You've already built businesses before. You've you've gone through this

before. You've you've gone through this whole cycle and you understand this whole phase, right? So,

>> A, >> should anybody take a risk to leave their dying industry if they are very talented and join someone like you? And

B, who are the kind of people if they join, what are the risks involved?

>> Yeah. So, I mean, we are seeing crazy growth right now. We just recently crossed $50 million in AR, right? Right

now we are, you know, one of the fastest growing AI startups in the world. Um,

and like in the his history of the world, right? Like not just like you

world, right? Like not just like you know uh in AI companies, but historically no company has grown this fast like a handful. Yeah. Yeah. When we

have crossed 50 million in like under 7 months and and our growth is accelerating like you know with every month like I know the number of >> people we're adding the the number of revenue we are adding is actually

accelerating right now. And uh we just closed like a large series B. We are

right now one of the most uh top funded AI startups in the world right now. I

mean in India uh right now and uh and >> how did you close?

>> Uh we have closed $70 million round.

>> Sweet.

>> Yeah. So that puts us in like $100 million raise so far. And we are building and currently like we have the best part in the market for this category and this category is going to be like a super huge category where you

know we will democratize all of the software development and um right now I feel like you know anybody who's building anything in any industry should jump the ship to an AI native company

right for two reason one is the learning curve is extremely steep right like most of the learning will come when you are in a high growth startup you know in a in a new new area and this is literally like 995 when internet was happening and

people were in like you older retail jobs and these kind of things most of the money over the last 30 years got made from internet companies right so similar things going to happen in in AI right now right and people and first is

learning second is obviously the financial upside right the the the rate at which companies like us are growing right now right I think it's it's um you know like the best time to sort of come and join

companies like emergent right where like we are super young super super early um extremely extremely um sort of going after a really really large market right

and and growing super super fast and the work is extremely exciting right now the the kind of work that you get to do are almost like you always need like first principle thinking to solve the problems lot of leverage because we are AI first

as a company so you get a lot of you know uh you you think in an AI first way and um small teams like really large problems never never been solved

problems before uh and extremely uh fun place right now right so >> but tell me my he's my worry A lot of young people, a lot of like >> extremely talented people are going to watch this.

>> Yeah. And one side of them is like okay this is exciting because one side is you have sort of like missed the ship of joining open AI

or anthropic because they're like really large companies now that's one second is India say right

or third AI fast growing one of the wellunded companies It's exciting. Maybe financial rewards

It's exciting. Maybe financial rewards upside learning.

Second is my worry.

>> What if AI is boom bubbleed?

So my worries I think even if AI progress stalls today which come chances like the way progress is going like there is enough that industries will get transformed right it

is it is quite apparent of course there may be like some momentary temporary bubble that might get formed like which will be in my opinion much bigger than

what where we are today right And uh but I mean right like maybe bubble maybe they would have been sad for like couple of days like couple of years maybe right but

they would have been coming out like super you know like uh they would be people who are at the top today right so I think you know like anybody who's jumping on AI today right and especially AI native companies like emergent like

you know like where you have hard problems uh you get to start thinking from AI their first first you know way um I mean they they are probably most

likely to win in the next decade or so.

>> Why should somebody leave their stable job in a large company where their promotion is due and they know they're going to become something to join some young company at very small scale >> right

>> and it's very unstable and risky what's the incentive I get it one is financial incentive which is almost like startup almost like you're building

only. So you're almost a mini

only. So you're almost a mini entrepreneur inside an ecosystem where you have to not care about money. So

that's a one incentive which I love a lot. I love a lot of young people to

lot. I love a lot of young people to should join us because we are we are doing something what media companies 30 years ago did some sort of right so I

I'm excited about but what's the other incentive I think see financial is the least incentive right I think people like doing good work will make make money wherever they are and I think of course like you know like people like us

companies like us like will will be financially like extremely rewarding for people right like both in terms of like comp and equity and The thing um first I

think is like you get to work with like really really smart people like like you know half the team is like under 100 IT rankers you know in engineering right so you you really really get to work with really smart people. Second is you get

to work on really really hard newer problems like this is the problems that world has never solved before right and and you get to you know take the first chance at solving some of these problems. A lot of problems that we have solved you know a lot of people have not

solved yet right so you you are on the extreme bleeding edge of technology uh every single day internally I see a demo that blows my mind right and and you'll you'll get to experience that you'll get

to build that right thirdly like you also you know get to get a chance to like really shape the future of AI and humanity right like you know you get to sort of have a part in have a say in

like you know what direction humanity is going to go right and and very few people you know will get that chance to sort of be part of the ship where you know like you're actually really directing for them. Let's say you know you joining Google in like '9596 right

like those people like really shaped up you know what our internet looks like today right and today like people have this opportunity to sort of really come in and um you know solve and shape shape the way sort of humanity is going to

sort of build tomorrow right and and really really democratize and empower all of humanity right that's sort of you know the way I mean we actually like you know like want only people who are like extremely mission oriented people who

actually really care about making a large impact in the world right and if you want to if you're if If you care about impact, if you care about building something, you know, giant, great, right? If you want to sort of compete at

right? If you want to sort of compete at the top global level, right? Internally,

we said that we are in an Olympics game because now we're competing with every single p person or every single company like at the top level, right? So, if you want to have, >> you know, feel I mean really experience

what like highest of standards look like in the globally, right? If you want to really feel like what does problem solving at you know where maybe handful of 10 20 people are capable of solving these kind of problems like if you want to experience that kind of thing then

imagine is the place to come.

Fair.

>> Fair.

>> I think people have But it's crazy, man. It's scary.

Even though it sounds too good, you join. It is scary. And but the other

join. It is scary. And but the other side of me is also like when I put a hat on if I had to switch industries and producing the other side is

>> if I can't see anything crazy happening in the work that I'm doing right now even then I'm at a place whether I should be more scared because probably

this one's going to go faster than something new which I'm trying to become part of. So

part of. So >> right. No, I I think I mean um

>> right. No, I I think I mean um >> like people should think about upskilling themselves and if they have an opportunity to join some young startup where they can learn faster,

they can shape the way world is going and they they can they have a fair shot of good financial reward. I think they should because >> being stuck at where they are is more

problematic and more scary than >> not joining an unstable world.

>> I mean I I wouldn't call us unstable, right? right like I mean in the sense

right? right like I mean in the sense that like you know like I think >> the world is unstable right now I'm saying >> startups like yours >> mine or even like open like we don't know like NB also because

>> like this is we are at a we are working in a world which is unstable >> yeah I think I think I think that is um yeah only only risk right now is not taking those risks

>> yeah that's what I meant >> totally totally and I think I think as long as people are like deep into AI I think that they're going to be fine Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Interesting. Where were you born?

>> I was born in Chundigard.

>> Okay.

>> And um we are triplets. So we were you know >> triplets.

>> Yes. I have

>> all three. You look same.

>> No no no. So I have a sister. She lives

in New Zealand now. And I have a brother Madhab who lives in SF and with whom I'm starting right. So it was a pretty fun

starting right. So it was a pretty fun childhood.

>> Okay. And then all three of you like do you look do you guys look same or >> so me and mother look similar but but not exactly same if you were looking same like our life would have been very different

I was never good in exams >> nice and then so you guys grew up which college did you go to so college maybe I went to labad and

Exactly. And

Exactly. And right and the kind of people that there are like you know right >> which one did your brother go to? He

went to ITBHU so it was pretty close by.

I was in Alabad, he was in Banar and we used to spend a lot of time together and like first time I had like this adult

sense oh you know like I could have been there and you know um and then you know

and and I used to be very inspired by Bill Gates and Steve Jobs uh And I got very inspired

and I I got internship in IT Madras. Then

third year I went to Spain for my internship.

internship and I put in lot of effort online

and then I went to Spain and then Madhav actually went to uh Penn State

for his PhD. Um and um >> I also went to Columbia to do my PhD. Uh

and uh New York New York and and um 2009 to 200 2008 financial crisis and

I I was I was not very like reading news and other things like I didn't you know, understand the gravity of a financial depression. Then,

you know, right and um but luckily uh I got into Google

internship or Google problems. Google York. I got into that team and

York. I got into that team and they said Google and like I was the person with the most

ideas there uh often and I would push everybody around.

young energy and people used to be very um uh I I would say like excited but then also

right and and scale you know how do you build uh highquality teams how do you build a culture uh you know where you know everybody's always excited about great

work how do you focus on user And um back in those days, Google

culture um and Google search number one, number two

and and You know I worked with a lot of big data stuff. So a lot of learnings there but

stuff. So a lot of learnings there but Uh and you know service and mobile

and you know cost and of course Uber was also there as a as a model you know

that can be distributed now and and you know there'll be enough economy created on on this side uh and that you can create a marketplace of both uh where a lot of people want to uh outsource some work. There are enough people who want

work. There are enough people who want to do that work and you can create make the economics work >> and largely you know we wanted to live a convenient life and

Uh and you you see the smile on their face and early was a savior in many ways midnight.

So you could you could see that delight on their face. Oh, Danzo saved saved their day.

>> So, what happened? Danzo was instant hit.

You were able to raise and attract capital also, >> right?

>> So, Danzo was almost a phenomena, right, in many ways and pioneers on one of the biggest trends

that got created, Quickcommerce. Um

and generally if you founder journey right like um matter number one

second is product third is you know team execution all of that and generally you know like most companies fail because market

one of the biggest trends. So we were in the right market. We had the best product. We had the best you know

product. We had the best you know uh we had a great brand, great customer service. Uh few things happened. I feel

service. Uh few things happened. I feel

honestly right would have been very different.

We were not able to raise capital. Um

even though my business unit economics you know became very good >> uh over time and of course like reflecting back there were a lot of things we would have done differently but

generally at least the toughest and But we were spending a lot of money setting up the dark store scaling really really

fast. Um and

fast. Um and but at the same time pick up and marketplace you know dark store was the one which was working

>> and one mistake I think we did was key we should have shut down everything else and focus only on dark store because that was the one that was going to work And we were one of the first people to

set up in the country.

Right.

>> Well, it could go on for different things, but thank you so much.

>> Thanks, man.

>> I loved having conversation with you.

>> I I know that you've built an app for me.

>> Yes.

>> Right. What is it?

And we can ship it. We can show it right now.

>> What did you think about tell me and show me that?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Right. So let's let's create a you know as as we were discussing key can people create podcast with you.

>> Let's try to create a you know a virtual podcast thing thing with you where you know people can create a podcast with Raj.

>> Okay.

>> Right. And we'll just have to prompt it saying that hey I want to build an app like this. Right. And uh so let's say I

like this. Right. And uh so let's say I want to prompt it. Um

>> so we'll prompt it right here.

>> Yeah. So we can just write create an AI powered podcast creation studio where users can generate podcast by writing prompts.

>> Um clone their voice use pre-made AI voices including featured host voice of Raj Shamani. Uh

Raj Shamani. Uh >> and um host is Raj and we can add more voices. So let's just start with like

voices. So let's just start with like simple prompt. We just start with this

simple prompt. We just start with this right >> and um this will set up our environment you know a sandbox that we create for for uh

where where your agency is going to run >> and as soon as you start it's you know like now your app is building now we can chat in the background your app is going to get built uh right it might ask you

some questions uh and um you'll get first version in few minutes then you can play around with it give it more feedback and uh you know as we are going through the uh chat you know we can let

the app build in the background.

>> How fast can I build certain apps?

>> Let's say so I try to do one which was a basic one. Let me build let me ask you a

basic one. Let me build let me ask you a little >> more complicated one. I like this idea of >> task manager for the podcast company. I

love that. I want to build that just for the podcasters.

>> Yes. Yes. Um you can build this in like a week, you know. Uh I mean by by week means that you you'll have you'll still have to probably spend some time back and forth. Uh and depending on the

and forth. Uh and depending on the complexity the first version you'll get like in like couple of hours.

>> Okay.

>> Uh right. And then

>> I'll keep prompting I'll keep prompting.

>> What are the chance it'll fail?

>> I mean it it will fail like you know maybe 20 30% of time right like where in the fail instance it'll still have some bugs but you know you can just tell tell the agent hey this is this is what I'm

facing the issue and it'll sort of go and fix it. And um and because you know like we do all of the testing debugging all of those things automatically for you right all you have to do just is keep testing the app and and debugging.

So it basically ask you some question like for example what voice generation you want to use. So let's say 11 labs like we have like you know integration with 11 labs.

>> Labs um it's asking like what LLM do you want to use for script generation. Let's

say GBD 5.2 two.

>> Um, and then it'll ask you a bunch of questions like, hey, do you want to add any new feature?

>> Uh, so we give you a lot of things built in like authentication, databases, all of those things are built in, right? And

then you'll say, okay, um, just build >> and I mean it is as easy as just chatting with your developer. You just

chat with it, you know, like it'll start doing its work. Uh, it'll run for maybe like 15 20 minutes in a session. Uh,

it'll give you the one version. So every

every 15 20 minutes you'll get one update saying that hey this is what I've built so far. You're telling me, >> right?

Totally right.

Complexity, right? People, I would say typically you'll get an app build, you know, like $50 to, you know, anywhere between $5,000, right? and and uh

depending on the app like this random >> this will be under like you know $50 you can build an app like this >> that's it >> yes

>> and then I can do whatever I can build my own habit tracker >> just showing you here like now we have a design agent that has come in right it's trying to you know design your app right so we have multiple agents that'll come

in at different point of time during the app building so it it got your requirement it looked through its memory to figure out integation.

uh it figured out 11 lapsation looking at you know it like the agent has the memory of like what all apps it has built in the past and um now this design agent has come in it's trying to like you know read your prompt and understand

like what is what are the best it's going to do some research online uh it's going to try to figure out it's going to take some images >> okay >> and it's trying to figure out what is the best way to design your app uh right trying to find some themes and it's

going to you know like put it back >> what kind of apps people can make mal what is the most common kind of problem that people are trying to solve by building an app which is personalized for them.

>> So we have a lot of small medium business owners >> who are building who are trying to digitize their business. Okay. Just say

you know factory people manufacturing construction um lot of people are building ERPs, procurement software. A

lot of people are building CRM uh and and those kind of things on the platforms. A lot of entrepreneurs are building AI apps. Uh roughly you know 50% of our apps have some AI component

in it. uh uh and especially because AI

in it. uh uh and especially because AI uh you know like it compresses the logic right because you can now prompt a lot of things right a lot of people are trying to for example people are trying

to build like AI lawyers AI chat bots um you know for their specific industries a lot of people are trying to build agents on the platform today uh right so so AI as a theme is is pretty big people are

building voice agents somebody built um you know somebody automated their whole uh calling function uh using emergent uh right and and people build that Um what is it saying?

>> So it's saying that hey do you have an API key for learn labs? Now I have one I'll just give it.

>> So wherever it it it like it requires that help will come and ask for you. Uh

for example it wanted like hey do you have you know do you want to use your your key or my key? Uh and then I just give it a key saying use my key. Uh

>> and it it'll take us like 20 25 minutes to get the first version out. Uh and

then you know like we can >> done and we'll have that app.

>> Yeah. We'll put it here in the editing in the end to show people.

>> We can show what what the app is.

>> Perfect. Done. Nice. Thank you so much.

>> Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun.

me. It was really fun.

Everyone talks about success, but almost no one talks about the trade-offs behind it. The late nights, the wrong

it. The late nights, the wrong decisions, the uncomfortable learning.

Today's conversation is about what it really takes.

>> Hi, good to meet you. How are you?

>> You brother, >> please come on in. Ah,

>> all good. Shoes?

>> Yeah. Yeah, all good. All good. Awesome.

>> What's up?

>> All great. I've heard so many of your shows. I'm so excited to be here.

shows. I'm so excited to be here.

>> Thank you. I'm excited to have you, man.

You're doing killer work.

>> I believe I'm this 5-year-old kid sitting in front of you and I'm randomly curious about everything that you have done. So, I want to learn more. So,

done. So, I want to learn more. So,

that's the whole process, you know. In

fact, I follow in my life now.

The first question and that's a practice and it's just there. So they ask

there. So they ask question did you ask? So, you're

training your kid to be more curious and ask more questions and raise more questions in the world. And I do that like every night. I go back to bed and be I write down a

thing to do. Thank you so much. episode.

Number two and number three episode one conversation can change someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until

life. I'll see you next time. Until

then, keep figuring out.