2025 Sportswatch Year In Review with DC Rainmaker // Over 30 New Wearables!

Welcome to the seventh annual sports watch year end review. I think it's number seven. I don't know. I just

number seven. I don't know. I just

looked at last year's video. It's

getting to be quite a few years at this point.

>> It's, a, lot, of, years,, a, lot, of, watches.

>> So,, if, any, of, you, are, new, to, this, video, so this is DC Rain Maker and I'm Despit and we review all sorts of wearables and sports watches. And this is our endofear

sports watches. And this is our endofear wrapup of basically everything that has come out this year that we've reviewed.

So, there are tons of watches from tons of different manufacturers, but we really just try to focus on all the products that we actually covered in one way or the other. There's actually even some products here that we actually

didn't quite cover yet just because we haven't had the time because again, this is the busiest year that I can remember ever.

>> And, we'll, cover, what, worked, and, what didn't worked and look through the kind of lens of the whole year. And then

towards the end of the video, we'll also talk about what we think is going to happen next year as well.

>> Totally., And, you, probably, noticed, that this is going to be a long video, but uh we have chapters for each of these watches down in the description below.

So you can just go and like, you know click on the particular watch that you actually want to check out in here. And

so one thing to keep in mind is you can just listen to this like a podcast in the background. We will be showing you

the background. We will be showing you kind of cool B-roll and stuff like that of these watches and showing you hands-on bits. But by and large, you can

hands-on bits. But by and large, you can just listen to this in the background if you want to. And that also really helps out on the YouTube side quite a bit. Uh

that watch time. Just watch all the way through or listen all the way through.

Oh, and one more thing too is that we also have a podcast called the FitFile podcast. So that is uh more of a regular

podcast. So that is uh more of a regular thing reg once a year sports watch review. So during the year, we talk

review. So during the year, we talk about all the different releases that come out when whether it's going to be health wearable, sports watches, bike trainers, bike computers >> and, give, you, a, bit, more, of, get, more detail on some of our thoughts on each

watch uh than we could necessarily in review where we want to talk about certain areas that again either worked well or didn't work well and then go into a really long explanation of why it maybe didn't work so well.

>> Yeah., So, anyways,, we'll, have, that, uh link down to our podcast down in the description below and you can check that out on Spotify, Apple Podcast, as well as YouTube. So, lots of different

as YouTube. So, lots of different options. Like, the world is your oyster

options. Like, the world is your oyster on that one.

>> So,, I, think, I, did, the, count., I, mean,, we have easily over 20 watches this year plus a whole bunch of other wearables that we're going to be covering here just because this has been the busiest

year I think ever at this point.

>> 31,, by, the, way.

>> Oh,, did, you, already, count?

>> I, just, counted, 31, plus, of, things, not, on the table on our bodies.

>> Yes,, there, are, actually, a, couple, things on our persons as well that we're going to be covering. So, in terms of like how we're actually going to go through these. So, this is just going to be by

these. So, this is just going to be by the time they actually came out during the year. So, that's basically the order

the year. So, that's basically the order I have them in at this point. I think I have everything correct. It may be a little >> down, to, the, exact, day, and, hour,, by, the way. So, like if things if things came

way. So, like if things if things came out in the same day, there's a couple I think watches that did come out in the same day here. We've got them sorted by by time. So, there's no preference for

by time. So, there's no preference for brand or it just goes start to finish.

>> Yep., Totally., Anyway,, so, let's, go, ahead and start out with the beginning here.

So, we're actually going to not start out with the watch. So, this is going to be the new Garmin HRM 200 heart rate strap. And this is essentially replacing

strap. And this is essentially replacing their kind of like longstanding HRM dual heart rate strap. And this one, it's really just an update for the most part where I think there's really two major

updates here. So, the first is that they

updates here. So, the first is that they went with a secure Bluetooth protocol.

And this is surrounding secure transmission of your health data.

Correct.

>> Correct., Yeah., Yep., um, your, data, in general and so it's one of those things they have to ensure that if you are transmitting something that's out in the open, so, totally, unencrypted, for example on AMP plus or even Bluetooth if it's

unencrypted then you need to be aware that you were doing that so that's why we have this button right here so that's kind of that confirmation that you're aware of doing something where we're pairing it etc. It also did go ahead and have this detachable pod which in the

past they didn't necessarily have in some of those cheaper heart rate straps and now they do there.

>> Well,, I, think, what's, nice, about, this, one is that it just it kept a right around the same price. I believe it was right around like 80 bucks or so. So, it's

just basically a simple update to their HRM duel. So, that's that's about it.

HRM duel. So, that's that's about it.

>> So,, all, right., Next, up,, we, have, the, new Instinct 3 release. And so, in terms of Instinct 3, so there's going to be an AMOLED as well as a memory and pixel version. So, they kept with the solar

version. So, they kept with the solar memory pixel option for those of you who want the longest battery life possible but they also came out with an AMOLED version this year, too. So, you know they had two different sizes, two different AMOLED models. They actually

had some really, really fun colors that came out, too. Some like special edition colors, but the price did increase, and we're going to that's going to be a recurring theme uh throughout this video for sure on some watches, but not on

some others. Um, so, but price did

some others. Um, so, but price did increase quite a bit on these. And I

don't know, I think there were some interesting decisions. I think the

interesting decisions. I think the AMOLED was something that was predictable.

>> Yep.

>> Yeah., To, to, actually, have, on, here., But, I think one thing that people or two things that people were probably expecting for the price increase though was that um they would probably use

their most current heart rate sensor and uh also maps on these two. So, I'm a little torn on the maps thing, and I'll I'll talk about that here in just one bit. But the Gen 4 sensor that they're

bit. But the Gen 4 sensor that they're using on here versus the Gen 5, that was a little bit of a struggle for me on the price, >> especially, given, that, their, previous units, uh, on, the, Venue, side,, for example, at a lower price point did have their

new optical heart rate sensor. I would

say on the map side, um I'm in the camp of the at this point in 2025, a 500 in the case of the the Instinct 3 tactical editions we'll talk about later on plus

dollar watches should have maps. I mean

we see maps on almost every other not on every other non-garm watch on this table, you have maps and down to basically $299, right? And so, I don't know, to me that's just a weird it's a

weird gap. So, my counterpoint to maps

weird gap. So, my counterpoint to maps is that with maps on an MIP display on this, I think it would be a struggle because the the memory pixel solar version has a much smaller display than

the AMOLED version. And with the AMOLED version, I'd say that maps are kind of deserved on here for sure, but I think it would just be kind of a struggle on that small of a display. I could see maybe the not on the smaller one on the

on the on the MIT, but I mean for me for AMOLED it should absolutely be there um on on all those models like it's just and I think the the counter-argument to that sometimes is that well Garmin has routable maps and others don't. So

that's a Garmin problem, right? That's

that's they made their own bed there right? And you don't they don't need to

right? And you don't they don't need to have that bed, right? They can change beds. They can say you know what for for

beds. They can say you know what for for cheaper devices subund sub $500 they have maps but not uh routable. routable

means that if you go off course somewhere, it can reroute those directions and tell you, oh, now you're on Maple instead of Main Street and turn left, right, etc. Um, versus every other

company here, um, that has map integration into their sport profile.

Well, Apple and Google are a little different in that respect, but that's a whole different ballgame. But the, you know Choros Polar Sundas etc. um their maps are non routable. So, if you go off course, it just simply says, yo you should be over there somewhere, but

I can't tell you how to get there. Well

talking about yo, you should be over there somewhere. The they introduced two

there somewhere. The they introduced two interesting kind of unique things with the Instinct 3. So, the maps on here, so it doesn't have fully routable maps like their higherend watches, like their like

say Phoenix's or their Foreigner 570 but the maps on here, it introduced a new concept of just like very very generalized locations. So, you'll see

generalized locations. So, you'll see you'll basically see city names like you'll see like, all right, there's Denver over there. There's New York way over there. But it doesn't give you any

over there. But it doesn't give you any other information.

>> So, useless.

>> It's, It's, I, don't, really, understand, it.

I guess from an outdoor perspective. All

right. So let's say you're like out in the wilderness somewhere and you're really really lost. Well, I think the only way you could use it is to say like, "All right, well, uh, Denver's over there. I need to get my ass over

over there. I need to get my ass over there."

there." >> I, know., I, think, it's, just, a, marketing thing. It's a bullet point for them to

thing. It's a bullet point for them to be able to say, "Maps check." Right? Are

those maps useful?

That's That's not the marketing bullet point.

Are they there? Check. Um, I do agree with you in the sense that if you are horrifically lost and you do see the Denver is that general direction, you can walk that way. That might be vaguely

helpful. Um

helpful. Um >> but, I, think, most, most, people, there's, so many other things on this this watch that say west, east, south, like you know which way Denver is relative to you

are on the compass. And um, so I'm I'm skeptical on on that. I agree with you in a very general sense, but to me it's just, I, think, one, of the, things, we'll talk without kind of hashing this horse too much because we've we've beaten this

horse a lot this year and we're going to keep on beating it. Um is that I wonder if the lack of maps here will eventually contribute to something we saw later in the year in Garmin's investor and

earning side of things um kind of slowly that trickle effect building up over the course of the year.

>> Sure., So, one, more, interesting, I, would say emission from this is that so when we first started playing around with these, right, so, we're, like, all right, so yeah we're just like checking out all the features and stuff like that and

then when we went to go touch the display on the AMOLED watch we're like >> wait, a, second, this, isn't, a, touchcreen, so I think both of us said in our reviews or our coverage that I think this is the

first AMOLED watch I can even think of that doesn't have a touchscreen display and quite frankly it's a very very strange decision but Again, I almost have to go back to the difference in

display types here where having a touchcreen on this small of a display over here would be challenging in terms of like usability, but not having the touchcreen in the AMOLED version. I

think that was a little bit of a struggle.

>> Yeah., But, like, I, mean, the, Pace, series has touchcreen. It's small to smallest

has touchcreen. It's small to smallest display right?

>> Yeah.

>> Um, but, I, think, even, more, than, that,, I guess go back to like standardization within the Garmin lineup, right? For

example, why does the new InReach 3 which isn't really a wearable, so we're not on this table here, but that has a touchscreen display. Yeah.

touchscreen display. Yeah.

>> Right., And, it's, a, $500, device,, right?

Like or 50, I guess, the same price as these essentially. Uh I guess there's

these essentially. Uh I guess there's just these things that I I feel like there's a lack of sitting down of people going, "Oh, we should have these price points have these things." I mean, they

did decide clearly that something below X value, I think it's $600 now, is no match, right? Like we look like venue.

match, right? Like we look like venue.

No maps below on the Venue 4, but there is maps on some higherend devices.

>> And, I, think, so,, let's, see, here., I, just want to get to my notes here really quick. So, the pricing, so the AMOLED

quick. So, the pricing, so the AMOLED version was more than the solar version.

So this is actually where I think they >> I, think, they, actually, should, have branched out the AMOLED version even more than just AMOLED versus solar where the AMOLED version I think it should have had a touchcreen and I think it

also should have maps because again I think there there are some differences in terms of the the display and and the usability and stuff like that. So I

think they could have taken advantage more of the AMOLED display. I think it was really cool to come out with an AMOLED display instinct 3. I will give credit of course the the core thing that for some people the instinct three now we talk about maths we talk about a lot

of other things but one of the things that people will rightfully remind us is that there is a portion of the population I would argue very small portion of population but a portion of the population nonetheless that is using

this watch in almost like a ranch hand kind of way right in other words they are outdoors all the time they don't really care about GPS in most scenarios they just want something that lasts for weeks on end and they don't have to deal

with charging um and battery life on this watch in that type of scenario is fantastic and you still have those GPS functions and if you are outdoors in the sun quite a bit. Um you do get a lot of

battery life on the solar edition in particular.

>> I, mean, they, what, they, increased, that, by like four or five times or something like that. It was it was a crazy amount.

like that. It was it was a crazy amount.

Yeah. So the actual the solar panel so uh correct me if I'm wrong but they actually remove the translucent layer right from there. But it's just the efficiency around the actual solar ring around the display is is far more

efficient. Plus, it's actually black

efficient. Plus, it's actually black now, so it blends into the display a lot better versus the kind of like reddish purplish hue that they had before. So

actually a massive improvement really on the uh solar version.

>> Yep., Absolutely.

>> Yep., All right., So,, next, up, were, the Power Beats Pro 2os. And uh we're looping these in because these definitely fit in that space of health and sports tech for sure. So, the most

interesting thing about these is that they introduced a new heart rate sensor on the earbuds themselves. Now, this

isn't this isn't necessarily the first set of earbuds with heart rate sensors like sat Samsung's had some before in the past, as well as some like Braggy, I think, was another company.

>> There's, been, a, lot, of, companies, that have tried it. Braggy is one of them um that have tried it over the years. And

the general rule of thumb up until this point is when these companies have tried it, it's been a proper dumpster fire.

I'm I'm happy to say that Apple continued that tradition and kept this as proper dumpster fire, right? This the

accuracy here was completely horrific.

The good news though is that things got turned around by the end of the year.

Admittedly, I have not retested the newest firmware on these to see if any changes have happened. I that's on my to-do list.

>> That'd, be, interesting.

>> Um, I'm, I, keep, meaning, to, do, that., But

we'll talk about turning the boat around a little bit later on in the year. Uh

but yeah, these from an accurac sound cool, accuracy of heart rate >> not, cool, at, all., They, just, kept, that tradition of all past watches where it just did not work when you started working out.

>> There, was, only, one, use, case, for, these that I found actually worked really well was with weight training and high-intensity interval training because funny enough, watches at the wrist, it's actually the worst place to measure heart rate pretty much anywhere in the

body just because there's lots of tendons. It's not necessarily a fleshy

tendons. It's not necessarily a fleshy area on the body. So measuring heart rate from a different place is can generally get better results. So for

weight training and high-intensity interval training that was great. So I

think one more thing we should mention really quick because I think this is going to follow up to the AirPods Pro 3s that, we're, going to, talk, about, later, is that with the Power Beats Pro 2. So

these are actually going to be really good for both Android as well as iPhone.

And funny enough, the experience using an Android phone with the heart rate sensing is actually better than the AirPods Pro 3's, which we'll talk about later. So, we I think both of us

later. So, we I think both of us actually ended up collecting our heart rate data on Android phones, right?

>> That, was, the, only, way, to, make, it, work, ironically enough.

>> So,, basically, uh, just, in, a, nutshell really quick. So, on an iPhone with

really quick. So, on an iPhone with those there were only certain apps that could actually collect heart rate. And

the reason for this is that those apps actually had to tap into Apple's Health Kit API to pull in that Hurray data.

Other than that, you can't really pair it to any third party devices. So, you

can't pair it to like your watch or your bike computer, anything else. So, we

ended up having to pair it with our Android phones >> because, on, Android,, there, wasn't limitation. On Android, you could just

limitation. On Android, you could just use a standard Bluetooth heart rate profile and it connected just fine. It

was a bizarre set of circumstances there that basically said, "Go use an Android phone over an iPhone." Um, which is okay. All right. Yeah.

okay. All right. Yeah.

>> Anyways, >> uh, All right., Next, up,, we, have, the Amazefitit Active 2. And this one was crazy because this one came in at $99

and it actually had offline maps on this thing. And you know, again, so there is

thing. And you know, again, so there is a big difference between Garmin's offline maps and everyone else's offline maps where these are going to be map images where it's just basically showing

you an image on top of your location that or >> transparency, projector, style., It's

literally like almost like a like a paper map and you like, "All right, I'm here right now." Where

>> you, know,, Garmin, maps,, those, are, like Google Maps where you can do like anything you want with them. But again

$99, I mean, that's absolutely insane.

There was like a premium version at $129. I think that one came with NFC

$129. I think that one came with NFC payments or something along those lines plus this leather strap or something.

But this is just one of those like 99 bucks. You just can't go wrong with this

bucks. You just can't go wrong with this watch.

>> Yeah., As, always,, like, Amazefitit, makes amazing products at a budget price point, and this is probably the best example of that. Uh, I think like you look at something like the Amazefitit T-Rex 3, really good example of that in

that instinct competitor realm there.

And we'll talk about some of the challenges when they start to increase their price a little bit. Um, but in in 99 bucks, you can overlook all the Amazefitit, quirks., And, one, of the, things

Amazefitit, quirks., And, one, of the, things that every reviewer will always talk about with Amaze Fit is that they make great products at great price points but there's a lot of weird like quirky things in their software that you're

like, "Wait, what? That doesn't make any sense." And you can overlook those

sense." And you can overlook those things at 99 bucks that you can overlook at $400 or or higher. So, at 99 bucks really, really solid deal. Uh, and

definitely it's cool to see them really pushing the boundaries of that price point there.

>> Yeah,, and, we're, going, to, see, that, a little bit later on, too, for sure. So

all right. Next up, we have the Garmin Vivo Active 6. And this was a pretty simple upgrade to the long-standing Vivo Active 5, but they basically just added

a ton of new sport features to this thing. And they kept the price pretty

thing. And they kept the price pretty much the same as the previous generation, which was nice to see. But I

think one of the one of the most like interesting surprises I think both of us had, with, this, one,, kind, of like, the Instinct 3, but maybe in a good way, was that when we started playing around with it, the display was just like so much

brighter than what we've seen before.

And you know, it's not like Garmin's AMOLED displays in the past were dim by any means, but this was just like when we turned up the brightness, we're like "What the heck? This thing is like crazy crazy bright." Well, and this would also

crazy bright." Well, and this would also be kind of the start of some of Garmin's uh standardization on software as well that we see later on in the year. Um

where this is sort of this family of 2025 watches that are all sharing the same common platform um that would become a really big deal in some of these midyear and then eventually later

half of the year watches. But I will say this is the one watch that actually had a good price point. Yeah. Right. At

$299, correct? And um I think when it first came out though, a lot of us looked at it were like, "But why?" Like

"Where does this fit in on the scheme?"

Because you had Venue priced, Venue three at the time, priced just slightly higher than that, and then you had this one sitting there undercutting it didn't have some of the higherend sensor features. Uh so, for example, has the

features. Uh so, for example, has the old sensor on it versus the new one. at

the time are like this doesn't really make sense because you're going to have a Venue 4 eventually that would be priced in what I assumed we all assumed would be the same price point that Garmin's always had for years of their

Venue uh lineup to compete directly with Apple and Google and Samsung and then of course later on we learned that Garmin threw that book out the window and the pricing along with it um and now this seems like the best Garmin deal there is

on this table almost >> oh, completely, well, and, I, think, what's interesting about the Vivo Active 3 four, five, and six lineup is that it's actually an extremely popular watch.

Like I mean it's it's kind of funny like in terms of like my content on my channel, the Vivo Active 3 was actually like one of the most popular videos I've ever had like period. One more thing they actually added here too and

speaking of run right here is that they actually added running power as well as uh collecting running dynamics from the wrist itself which I would say that was kind of like probably because of like

Apple having Yeah.

>> at, the, SE., So, Apple, introduced, it, on Watch OS um a couple years back at uh down to the you know Apple Watch SE level. So on sale you're talking 179 you

level. So on sale you're talking 179 you know 169 even sometimes and so and normal pricing at 249ish. And so

obviously at this point like Garmin has to introduce that as Garmin is the sports focused watch company on this table to be undercut by the competitors in some of those um kind of forward-looking you know sports data

metrics like running power etc was a bit quirky for them. Um, so it's good to see that uh they did this and put a ton of stuff in there. Uh, and I think over the course of the year again, you're going to see even more features yet passed

down to this watch through the virtue of being on the same software platform as some of its uh, more expensive siblings.

>> Totally., All right., One, that, actually, I think we may have skipped over in terms of the order of these. So this is the Garmin Tactics 8 right here. So this is basically the tactical version of the

Fenix 8 that came out in 2024. But with

this one, you know, just like almost every Phoenix watch that's come out in years past, they have these special editions of different watches. Like

they're going to have a specialized marine version with their Quantics version and then they have their what's the aviation one called again? The D2 or >> Droach., No,, that's, the, G., Yeah., But, this

>> Droach., No,, that's, the, G., Yeah., But, this is essentially the tactical version of it right here. And they add tactical features. There's like stealth mode, the

features. There's like stealth mode, the kill switch feature, and then with this too, they actually changed the design just a little bit too where this kind of like has a squared off bezel. And funny

enough, I think what made this watch kind of popular this year was that there was a design change where this had a squared off bezel, and people just like that a lot better than the Phoenix. So

and that's that's simply it. It was

quite a price increase though over the regular one. So, I think it was like

regular one. So, I think it was like $1,400 or something like that or $1,300 for the baseish model and then uh it's actually now already on sale for $10.49. So, it's

it's actually uh quite a bit discounted at this point. So, anyways, that's the Tactics 8. Just a quick one that we

Tactics 8. Just a quick one that we wanted to mention there, too. I had

Connect Plus on the list here uh in terms of something else that came out in terms of these sports watch kind of like content, I guess you could say. But I'm

going to say you should just go ahead and watch our other videos on that as well as our podcast episode. I'll have

those linked down there. But yeah, I'm not sure that's necessarily like taken off.

>> No,, I, don't, think, so., I, don't, think, our opinions have changed either. No, like

there that's the opinions that we had back then um on the the dumpster fire state that that that was is whatever is largely the same. I don't think they've

done anything to meaningfully increase the value prop of that. Um, and instead I think they've done things to upset people even more like putting the year in review behind connect plus that wasn't there in the past.

>> I, would, say, basically, TLDDR, I, I, don't personally find it worth it. So and it's not something you have to have with your Garmin watch. So you know don't and so

Garmin watch. So you know don't and so you'll you'll definitely hear quite a few opinions on it but it's absolutely something you do not need to purchase with your Garmin watch. Your Garmin

watch will function very very well without it. In fact, all of my reviews

without it. In fact, all of my reviews and I think all of your reviews as well have not used any Connect Plus features in any of our reviews this year. Um, in

terms of showing these watches how they work, I have explicitly incl excluded uh Connect Plus from all my reviews just to show you that you do not need it in any way, shape, or form. Um, now, as we said

before, and I think this is even more true now, I think there is opportunity for Garmin to make Connect Plus valuable to Garmin users. Um, if you look at things like the inreache side of subscriptions or the outdoor maps plus

like they have these different subscription services, the different ISOs if you will. I think there's ways they could combine some of those together um in a similarish way that Apple does like with their Apple one um

plus whatever it is subscription that kind of concept. Uh but to date Garmin has mostly just had little mostly meaningless things in Connect Plus. um

versus like on outdoor maps uh maps plus that is something that has tangible benefits of additional maps and map types things like that you add or in reach having obviously satellite

connectivity features etc. Find a way to make that value prop interesting to consumers.

>> Yep., Totally., Next, up, we, have, the Sunundto Run. So this is this is an

Sunundto Run. So this is this is an interesting watch where I think this is like pretty much meant to compete with the budget level sports watch category.

And the kind of the winner in that category for years has been the Chorus Pace Y series. And this is like pretty much a direct competitor to it. But they

brought down a lot of features from their higherend Sunundto Race S down to the Sunto run here. It's a super super capable watch. I think it even has like

capable watch. I think it even has like full triathlon support I believe.

>> Yeah., Really, really, good, value., I, think it's also interesting too in a way that this kind of helps to protect a little bit against the amazefits of the world by bringing the price point down uh for some people that go, you know, I want a

sporty watch, don't really want to pay a ton, but for the 249, like I think it makes it super compelling. Uh what's

interesting about this watch too though is it didn't use the same exact platforms as the rest of Sunundto's devices, both prior and ones that will come later in the year. This was kind of seen as a bit of a test platform for them, that they weren't sure this might be the future platform or it might be

like a one-off. And in the end, they decide this is kind of a bit of a one-off platform. To the end user, you

one-off platform. To the end user, you would never really notice this. In most

scenarios, the one scenario you would notice it is a lack of the Sundto app store on this device because it's different software behind the scenes.

But for $249, I don't think there's a ton of apps in the App Store that are really going to be something that people at a$249 price point are missing. I

still fi feel like the app store on suto's end of things is a little bit clunky, you know, in terms of like how that works and how you actually have to add a lot of those things to the sport profiles. I feel like there is

profiles. I feel like there is definitely some opportunity there in terms of like making that smoother for um for consumers.

>> Yeah,, it's, it's, more, like, it's, app, store has almost always been a little bit of a case of things that they wanted to put in the base firmware but couldn't so they put it on the side and you just like it's like side dishes, right? you

just you you put it on each time on your dish on the side like yes I want that one today and they've done things to make that better so like it remembers which side dishes you had last time and so on but I agree with you it's always been a little bit quirky it's just not

the same as everyone else's >> and, you, mentioned, like, how, this, watch was actually going to help compete with like the Amazfits of the world too and that's the thing with Sundto is that I've you know they they definitely have a higherend name you know out there and

reputation which is awesome which is great but also not necessarily as accessible as something like an amazement so that definitely helps helps them compete with that audience. But I

think the other thing about this watch too is though is that you know in terms of like not just necessarily a budget price, it's really like super lightweight, it's super small. So that's

again how it will help it compete with like a Pace 4 out there, right?

>> One, last, thing, about, this, watch, though is that Sundto's namings of things with their latest generation watches, it's it's always been kind of interesting where like you know the Sunto Vertical

I think that's a great name. Sundto race

interesting name like you know but the Sundto run I think this pigeon hold this watch a little bit too much >> probably >> funny, enough, it's, almost, like, Garmin's 4Runner watches where people may get

confused by that 4Erunner name and think it's like only for running where these you know those are like very very capable full-on sports watches so I don't know I think the run name I think they could have chosen something a little bit different yeah with this but

that's about my only complaint about this watch >> no, I, agree, with, you >> yeah, and, speaking, of, 4ERunners., We, have the 4Runner 570 first and then we have the 4Runner 970. So, let's talk about

the Let's talk about the 570 first. So

this one uh this one was an interesting one because when we got the materials for this one, we're like, "Wait a second, 570. What happened to the 270?"

second, 570. What happened to the 270?"

because basically this was meant to replace their long-standing 4Runner 265 but they decided to change the name or the I guess the numbering scheme on this one where they essentially thought that

they brought so much more to this watch that deserved a new number. And it

actually does make sense now where you have the 100 series, you have the 500 series, and then the 900 series. So, it

actually like kind of flows and makes sense there now because before you had 100, 200, and 900, and then they've had some other numbers in there, too. Yeah.

Anyways, I think like overall I feel like it makes sense now.

>> Yeah., I, Yeah.

>> You, have, thoughts?

>> I, have, thoughts., I, I, feel, like, they, had the 27. This would have been the 270.

the 27. This would have been the 270.

They even said in the video they did um like a behind the scenes video that they thought that it they had went back and forth between naming this the 400 270 or the 570. Um to me though, I again back

the 570. Um to me though, I again back to maps. For a watch at this price

to maps. For a watch at this price point, it should have had maps.

Everything else in their competitive ballpark has maps. I think if you had maps or if you had done the flashlight given later on they added the flashlight and do other watches at the same price point. It's just such a weird watch to

point. It's just such a weird watch to me. I I like the colors by the way. I

me. I I like the colors by the way. I

love the color scheme.

>> Yeah., So, they, they, crushed, it, on, the colors on this. Yeah. But

>> I, just, struggle, with, this, watch., I, don't like if you set aside years, right? If

you just step away from the years and go let's ignore the years, then I would say go and get a 4unner 965, right? It

doesn't have the newer sensor, but this doesn't have ECG anyways, so it doesn't really matter in that sense. Yes, it

matters a little bit for accuracy, but I think a lighter watch like the 965 and get relatively similar accuracy in most cases., This, is, one, of the, ones, that, just

cases., This, is, one, of the, ones, that, just is weird to me. So, in terms of what they added, by the way, too, to make it that 500 series name. So, in terms of what they added, the big name feature

was the fact that they added the speaker and microphone to this. So, very much from their Fenix 8 lineup. So now you can actually take calls on the watch itself. This does not have cellular

itself. This does not have cellular capabilities though, so you do have to have your phone nearby. There's like a voice command feature where you can control the watch. You can use like Siri or Google Assistant from your watch as

well here. They also increased the like

well here. They also increased the like premium materials that they used on here too. So you know there's these like, you

too. So you know there's these like, you know, nice bezels on here. And again

like they crushed it on the actual colorways and the design on these. Like

this looks like an awesome watch. But

again, very interesting decisions.

Again, like you know, we were surprised with the Instinct 3 AMOLED not having a touchcreen on there. And then

>> we, were, very, surprised, that, they, used the Gen 5 Elevate heart rate sensor on here, but they didn't include the ECG.

So, so maps on this watch, I can I'm on the fence of like, all right, I can see how maps maybe not on this watch. Fine

you know, but the lack of ECG at this price, that was the struggle for me for sure. That that would have been like

sure. That that would have been like made it probably a lot better to swallow the price tag. See, I go the o opposite way though because in my mind, if I look at the number of people that are actually going to use ECG on a watch versus the number of people that

actually use maps on a watch, I would argue if you had 100 people, more people out of that 100 will use maps than they will use ECG.

>> Yes,, I, agree.

>> So,, I, that's, where, it's, tough., It's, just like >> it's, just, this, as, we, saw, all, year, all year long, Garmin pushing prices up for some of the stuff and that's their

business to do that, right? But as we'll see later in the year, that doesn't always work out, right? And in the case of the fitness segment, which is what this watch falls underneath. Um so that includes uh basically their former

watches, includes their um cycling gear but does not include their Fenix watches. That's considered outdoors.

watches. That's considered outdoors.

Fitness has been crushing it this year um from a device standpoint. But some of that makes sense because you have all these new releases from this as well as a little bit on the the cycling side as well um in those devices. So you can

kind of that ground swell I think will help them. So, it might cover up some of

help them. So, it might cover up some of the quirkiness you see lower on um lower down that uh from a volume standpoint.

At the same time, Garmin also has made their strategy more clear that they are unafraid, of, you, saying,, you, know what,, I don't want the 4Runner 570. I will go buy that 965 from prior gen. Um their

CEO talked about that one of the earnings calls that they look at themselves as having a two tier strategy. you have new devices and then

strategy. you have new devices and then you have XUS1 devices, previous gen, and they're all right and they're going to keep on making those previous gen devices. Unlike other companies, Apple

devices. Unlike other companies, Apple etc., that basically just shut off the old devices and they don't make them anymore. Garman will keep making old

anymore. Garman will keep making old devices for years, right? Um, you know prior gen devices and they will sell them at a discount and that is a core part of their financial strategy. Um, so

on one hand there is that still existing there, to, say,, you, know what,, I, can't afford, I can't justify, I think it's silly, whatever the case is the 570, but I will go buy that 965. Garmin's happy

to take your money for that.

>> Sure., Yeah., No,, absolutely., And,, you know, here's the thing about including maps in this watch. I think including maps in this watch, it would it would really muddy up the waters for their 900 series watch at that point, adding maps

to here. So, I think ultimately really

to here. So, I think ultimately really just comes down to that increase in price where it's like the increase in price wasn't necessarily as justified um with the lack of some of those features.

So, if this watch had remained the same price as this 265, I think it would would have made a lot more sense.

>> Yeah., Went, from$449, to, um, 5.4.49., So,

100 bucks uh increase like many garments watches, but to me it's just a it hits different, right? 5.49 hits way

different, right? 5.49 hits way different than$449, especially when you look at sales and stuff like that. Well

and yeah, that's exactly what I said in my review is that this is designed to be a mid-range sports watch, but 550 is getting like that's out of mid-range at that point. I mean, that is getting into

that point. I mean, that is getting into premium territory. And um yeah, again

premium territory. And um yeah, again like 450, that's still on the upper end of mid-range, but yeah, 550 uh a little bit tough to swallow, but this watch I

was very, very impressed with. So, this

is the 4Runner 970. And this one was interesting because it's essentially kind of like a baby Phoenix at this point where there there's two big things that they added with the 970. So, first

off is that they added the flashlight that came from the Phoenix series. There

you go. Just like that. And then the other is that they actually added a sapphire lens to the uh 4Runner series as well. And that was that was probably

as well. And that was that was probably the missing piece from the 965 where the 965 it came with like titanium bezel on it which really really looked nice but it was missing the sapphire lens but

they added that with the 970. Now there

was a substantial price increase to uh for this one. So let's see here. The

price of this one was $7.49 from the 599 of the 965 when it first came out. So

that was a pretty big bump. However, I

would say $150 sapphire plus a flashlight. I'd say that's justified.

flashlight. I'd say that's justified.

>> Yeah,, I, think, it's, it's, all, relative., I

think $699 would have been a much more acceptable price for this. Um, but I would say of the watches, this sets the stage for a watch we'll talk about in a couple seconds here, minutes, whatever around pricing. And I think this makes

around pricing. And I think this makes these prices make some sense in this ballpark here. Um, this would really be

ballpark here. Um, this would really be one of the watches that continues to solidify that new software scheme that we'll see Garmin really uptake over the course of the summer around having one software platform of course across the

board. And we see a lot of features

board. And we see a lot of features here, a lot of features like you said from the Fenix side as well. Like there

are almost no differences between a 400 970 and a Fenix 8 on the same furnex on the same firmware version across the board. When push comes to shove, it

board. When push comes to shove, it really comes down to essentially the hardware side of things. um in almost every scenario with the exception of something like diving because it doesn't have the uh hardware components for

diving. Um so it's tough because on one

diving. Um so it's tough because on one hand, you know, we're looking at Garmin's top end 4Runner costing as much as a Phoenix did two years ago

basically. Um on the other hand, it is

basically. Um on the other hand, it is really holding its the whole term of the plastic Phoenix, which I know Garmin absolutely hates. Uh it's the plastic

absolutely hates. Uh it's the plastic Phoenix, right? At this point

Phoenix, right? At this point >> I, think, it's, the, watch, that, people should go for if they want all the functionality, but not necessarily that like super crazy durability, which I mean, quite frankly, there's there's

some of us that really do need that durability, whether we're careless or we're actually doing really rugged things. But on the other hand, there's a

things. But on the other hand, there's a lot of people that just need the functions and, you know, they probably take care of their watches a little bit better than maybe what we do. And you

know why the the foreigner team hates the term the the plastic phoenix is because they would argue incorrectly in this case that they they were the ones that introduced a ton of new fitness features into this watch. Right? So to

the 400 teams credit on both of the 400 970 and 570 they introduced a crap ton of new running features. Some of them I think are really really useful. Some of

them were super questionable. Um but at the, end, of the, day, they, introduced, a, ton of features there and then Phoenix team takes those and incorporates them back into their watches. And those teams are separate teams and they do of course

work very very closely together. Um but

the 400 team is the one that did did that work. And so in this case it's

that work. And so in this case it's funny because if you look at the 400 um 970 compared to the Fenix 8 nonpro so the Fenix 8 Pro that Fenix 8 that came out the year prior there is far more

sports features new sports features in this watch than the Fenix 8. When the

Fenix 8 came out the only new sport feature was diving assuming you count diving as a sport. Um in that case that was it. everything else was like UI

was it. everything else was like UI redesign stuff and >> I, don't, know, but, okay, yeah, in, terms, of like one bullet point sure but at the same time that's a that's a big leap in terms of the hardware

>> 100%, not, not, disagreeing, with, that, in terms of hardware and stuff but if you look at it from a if you were a non-diver last year >> yeah, irrelevant >> it, was, irrelevant, right, and, so, in, this case there is a ton of features here

some of them are super super cool and you're like that is handy um some less so but still kudos to the 400 team on really delivering quite a bit there.

>> Well,, and, related, to, that,, so, we, have the HRM600 and some of those running features that they introduced on the 970 are dependent on the new HRM600. So

with the HRM600 with this one, I think the the biggest hardware difference on this one was that uh it has a detachable pod just like the 200, but it's actually rechargeable now with a standard Garmin

charging pin right here, which is like that's awesome, right? For sure. Yeah.

>> Got, that, same, button, as, you, saw, in, the past. So, same Bluetooth, all the same a

past. So, same Bluetooth, all the same a lot of the same stuff that was over here, except it has more of the offline modes, etc. But really, I think the big ticket item on this is the price. Um

>> well,, okay., So,, let's, talk, about, what's the difference between in terms of like the running features between the HRM Pro Plus and this one. So, I think it was like was it running economy or the load impact? I can't remember.

impact? I can't remember.

>> Running, economy., So,, load, impact, um doesn't require it, but uh running economy does. and running economy

economy does. and running economy running on mostly flat ground only running on in mostly stable paces only.

Like there's all these nuances. It's I

give Garmin the same crap I gave Chorus around some of their running metrics right? Where I, you know, Chorus had

right? Where I, you know, Chorus had these same restrictions. It's sort of like the with the aliens, don't feed them at night, don't all this sort of thing, right? Same thing when it came to

thing, right? Same thing when it came to um Chorus's a lot of their like running efficiency metrics where you could only do them on flat ground and the running economy is much the same way here in all

of my testing. I found that I was essentially punished for running at the paces I needed to run for things and essentially punished for doing interval workouts that you need to do as part of a balanced, you know, running training

diet, etc., if you will. Um I just didn't get it and I I've had long discussions with government about this that I don't think that metric makes any sense whatsoever. But going back to the

sense whatsoever. But going back to the big ticket item on this is that the price. So I can't remember. It was

price. So I can't remember. It was

either like 160 or 180 or something like that. But

that. But >> 179, I, think., Yeah,

>> it, was, up, there., And, you, know, it's, like the HRM Pro and HM Pro Plus. I believe

those are 129 or so at MSRP. Very very

much often on sale. And those when they went on sale for 100 bucks, I was like go buy that thing. Like those things were a great deal at $100. But seeing

the price of this increase to whatever 160 180 that's I mean that's a heart rate strap at this point and you know it's like I know they are putting a lot

of new technology in here as well as a lot of new like um running metrics but I feel like it's just getting like out of reach and the thing is I just don't unless you have a Garmin device another

Garmin watch on this table that can take advantage of some of those metrics it didn't make sense like the idea for running economy, for example, that you have to have this strap in addition to

one of the newer devices.

I don't I don't get it. Like you didn't put running economy on the former 570.

That's the kicker. Like that would have been that would have made sense to me in a way because you're like, "Okay, you want, this,, but, you're, going to, upsell the, strap., Whatever., Fine., At least, do

the, strap., Whatever., Fine., At least, do that." But you didn't put running in my

that." But you didn't put running in my mind if I was Garmin, I would have put running economy on down to like the VWAC of six.

>> I, mean,, it's, an, upsell., Yeah., It's, an upsell for the strap. Yeah.

>> It's, an, easy, upsell., like, what, again whether or not it's useless or useful is is besides a point but that's the stuff just doesn't make sense to me for most of the people at 200 is great like I I've used at 600 predominantly this

summer >> and, I've, never, used, any, feature, except the heart rates out of it right that that's it um I used at 200 for a few things here and there >> and, there's, you've, no, difference, in, my mind

>> yeah, so, anyways, fascinating, device, uh for the most part and I think it just really comes down to price so >> you, know, related, to, price, actually, would be uh the new Polar Grit X2. Not the

Grit X2 Pro, but the new Grit X2. Now

>> I, think, the, most, interesting, thing, about this watch right here is that Polar, you know, they historically sent, you know me all the devices living in the United States. But this was actually the first

States. But this was actually the first device that they did not send to US reviewers. And the reason for this is

reviewers. And the reason for this is that they didn't uh they didn't actually put it for sale in the US when it first launched. I can't even I don't even know

launched. I can't even I don't even know if it's actually for sale right now in the US, but >> I, believe, it, is., Yeah., Either, way,, uh, you know, it wasn't available in the US.

So, that was an interesting decision for them to go with here. And I think a lot of it relates to pricing. So, Polar's

pricing of their devices, if you look on Polar's website now versus like when let's say, the Grit X2 Pro was first released, completely different. And I

don't know, I think an excuse can be the tariffs but >> tariffs, don't, affect, watches.

>> I, Yeah., So,, anyways,, going, back, to, this watch really fast though. So, I did not actually review this watch nor cover it.

So,, I'm, going to, go, and, let, you, talk about this one. So this watch was basically them standardizing um a lot of the so Polar to the credit very much like Garmin has really tried to standardize our software platform and

this was sort of the last puzzle piece of that where we saw it start off with the Vantage V3 I believe and then the Grex2 Pro and then the M3 and then now

this one here the Grex 2 nonpro being on the same software platform and I would say Polar has done theoretically speaking a better job of that than Garmin that these are identical software um features. features across all of

um features. features across all of those watches. And so in Garmin's case

those watches. And so in Garmin's case it's the core underlying software and then they decide which features to turn on and off depending on how much you paid. In Polar's case, it is identical

paid. In Polar's case, it is identical across the board. And the reason they started that a year and a half ago or two years ago now, two years ago now yeah, um was they said this would allow them to add more software updates in the

future more quickly. They'd be able to just turn it on and go across the board.

Long story short, that has not happened in any way, shape, or form. Um in fact it's actually, I would argue, gotten worse. They've released virtually no

worse. They've released virtually no software updates over the last couple years outside of a handful of things.

And when they have, it's been scattered you know, one over here, one over there for different watches. It hasn't made any sense, but that was a theory.

Pricing wise, this increased in price uh from 429 to €479. As Dez does know, they didn't launch it in the US initially.

And this is, if you went back, the time frame for this was in that um you know May-ish time frame, May June time frame.

And this is when from a tariff standpoint, there was a lot of uncertainty along around all these companies on tariffs and what those would look like. In the end, as it stands right now into the US, uh, smart

watches are actually exempted from tariffs. Um, so by and large, uh

tariffs. Um, so by and large, uh there's some quirkiness there, but there's basically exempted from tariffs.

And so, um, there really is no tariff impact on these watches. Um, there is tariff impact on other devices absolutely, uh but not these particular watch sets here. Uh so they basically held off on launching in the US because

they couldn't figure out what that tariff was going to be. And at the time they were told, all companies were told that tariffs be figured out by the July time frame. And so that's why we're

time frame. And so that's why we're seeing them come into the US now. But

you've just pulled up the price over there in the US.

>> How, much?, I'm, sorry., Repeat, the, price, of the euro again.

>> Uh, €479.

>> €479., So, I, think, you, know, in, terms, of like just a you know rough translation just into the US dollars that would be like I don't know that's 600 at the most, right? Yeah.

most, right? Yeah.

>> $799, which is the original price, I believe of the Grid X2 Pro. Yeah.

>> When, that, first, came, out., And, the, Grid X2 Pro right now is $1,000 for the standard version.

>> What's, looped?

>> Uh, I, think, 200., Yeah,, we'll, we'll, talk about the loop here a second.

>> So, one,, that's, insane., So,, you, know,, as Ray alluded to there a second ago, so if the tariffs aren't being uh actually imposed on smart watches, I just don't understand what Polar is doing with

their pricing the US. I mean, they're almost like I don't know. I saw

something on Reddit like somebody said that like Polar's almost like purposely pricing themsel out of the US market but that's what it like kind of seems like at this point.

>> At, these, current, prices,, Polar, shouldn't even be bothering trying to sell in the US or market in the US. They're just

they they would struggle to be they're already struggling to be competitive in the European markets at these price points compared to Chorus in particular and Sundto um let alone prior gen

watches which are more capable anyways.

Um and in the US side there you're you're telling me that this watch is the price of a Fenix 8.

>> Like, what?

>> Yeah., Yeah., So,, I, just, did, a, um, kind, of like my uh best sports tech uh video of the year for all the different pieces of sports tech I found. And I think I included almost every single brand, but

>> I, didn't, have, a, polar, device, in, there.

And I think the the Loop could have been in there, but we'll talk about the Loop here in just one second. We'll get

there.

>> So,, anyways., All, right., So,, next, up, let's talk about I think probably one of the most unique watches of the year. So

>> I, was, going to, use, the, word, confusing, but I agree with you. confusing for

people but not I think not for us.

>> See, well, okay, so, the, the, first, thing when I saw this watch so this is the Garmin Venue X1 by the way. So the first thought I had in my mind like oh yeah Apple Watch Ultra competitor hands down

and there are so many things pointing in that direction and when we talked to Garmin they're like no it's totally not an Apple Watch competitor but let's talk about some of the similarities here. So

we're talking about a square design just like the Apple Watch Ultra. They even

have like, you know, kind of some of these like orangey accents and stuff like that here. I mean, the similarities are are striking for sure. Um, same

price, same price tag at $800 and also similar battery life, too. But, however

one really crazy thing about this watch is just how thin it is. I mean, this thing's like half.

>> Yeah., The,, as, I, said, in, the, past,, the Apple Watch Ultra 3 eats two of these for lunch, basically.

Yeah.

>> But, um, I, mean, the, the, most, unique, thing about this watch is that this display is just gigantic on here too. It's so so big. And then they also added offline

big. And then they also added offline maps to this. And there's also a flashlight on here. But maybe the most interesting decision about this watch was that they called it a venue. This is

by far different than any other Garmin watch that they've ever come out with before. But they chose to call it a

before. But they chose to call it a Venue and then chose to put an X1 name on it too, which was like a little bit confusing. I think both of us agreed

confusing. I think both of us agreed that this should have been called the Venue Pro.

>> 100%., This, this, watch, I, think, they, it's really fascinating to me. This is I think it's some ways one of my favorite watches of the year. Um, which is weird to say because there are things that I don't like about it that make it a

non-starter for me. But what they did is they according to Garmin, their thing was, that, they, said,, "You, know what?, What

if we were unencumbered by our history and we wanted to make a watch that was a blend between a 4Runner, a Venue, and a Fenix series watch? What would it look like? And this is what they came to. And

like? And this is what they came to. And

this this watch from a software standpoint, as I said earlier on, is essentially identical to a Fenix 8 and a 4970. They're all running the same

4970. They're all running the same software platform. This watch really

software platform. This watch really drove that two ahead where by the end of the summer all three of those product lines would be on the exact same basically software platform across the board which has never happened in

Garmin's history. So that meant both

Garmin's history. So that meant both good and bad when there was a bug it impacted all three at once and when a new feature was introduced it impacted or was introduced in all three at once as well. the flashlights there, new

as well. the flashlights there, new optical heart rate sensor uh with the Gen 5, but not ECG because of a quirky thing there. But the price actually

thing there. But the price actually something that caught a lot of people off guard being a venue brightness product at you know $749$749$799 people like whoa this makes no sense but

from a price standpoint actually from our perspective I think it actually made perfect sense. It was priced basically

perfect sense. It was priced basically the same price as a 49er 970 and a you know Fenix 8 on sale without some of the harbor features of a Fenix 8 like diving

etc. Um, to me the price made sense.

Where it came challenging became challenging was some of the usability bits. The lack of buttons for example I

bits. The lack of buttons for example I found probably the most challenging piece. The battery life uh definitely

piece. The battery life uh definitely struggled um being so thin. There just

isn't a battery there. But their giant ass display on there and in particular the brightness levels they chose um meant that you couldn't really turn it down. So it would just blasting through

down. So it would just blasting through battery all the time. Uh

>> cuz, it, was, only, like, a, day, or, two, of battery life on this thing. And that was ultimately my struggle with this. I was

a really cool watch. Really, really

unique. The thinness was like amazing to wear. Like seriously, absolutely

wear. Like seriously, absolutely amazing. But the couple days of battery

amazing. But the couple days of battery life was a struggle. And here's the thing. Yes, it is also a struggle on an

thing. Yes, it is also a struggle on an Apple Watch. But the Apple Watch offers

Apple Watch. But the Apple Watch offers different features that are only unique to an Apple Watch as well. So, and

>> failure,, all, that, kind, of, stuff, that you'd expect to drive that battery life down.

>> All right., I'm, going, to, actually, kick that back to you about the price really quick. So, you you said that the price

quick. So, you you said that the price on this at $800 made sense. Y

>> but, you, didn't, necessarily, think, the price on the 970 made sense at 750, but this has like nearly all the same features.

>> I, think, the, Yeah,, the, key, word, probably to include in there is comparatively made sense.

>> Okay.

>> Meaning, that, if, I, looked, at, all, these things relatively speaking in terms of how they price 970 versus Fenix 8, etc. this price made sense for its features what it had compared to this. Does it

make sense in a universal standpoint compared to everything else on the table?

>> No., But, it, does, make, sense, relative, to how they priced the 970. Meaning if you price a 970 here, you had to price that there. The problem is that consumers

there. The problem is that consumers didn't see that for two reasons. One, I

think, was naming, as you touched on, X1 made no sense. I think if they had named this Venue Pro, it would have double tripled, quadrupled the sales. Boy, that

was I think the biggest I would argue maybe even Garbin's biggest mistake of the year was the naming on this watch.

>> Oh, yeah,, completely., It's, like, so, I understand and I think was justified to actually associate it with the venue series just because it lumps it into that category where you know it's like creating another new series of watch

that would have been definitely really confusing but then adding the X1 name on it kind of went you know two steps forward one step back sort of thing >> didn't, make, a, lot, of, sense, um, and, we've seen Garmin pretty darn quickly how to

put this thing on sale >> and, this, is, on, a, substantial, sale, right now I think for $5.99 that's 25% off that that's a brand new watch. Even by midsummer, they were already putting it on sale. And

that that is very very telling for Garmin to put something on sale that new that quickly that it was not selling. I

would love to see Garmin continue this with a X2. They don't call the X2, but they call it the Pro. Um, and don't don't try to call it Venue X2 Pro. Just

just call it Venue Pro.

>> Get, over, it, just, like, you, did, with, the Epics, right? You just pretend it didn't

Epics, right? You just pretend it didn't exist before and just went on with it.

Add an extra button, decrease the brightness on your display, and I think you've got a winner. Like I think that if you decrease the brightness on the display,, even, if, you, don't, do, it, in a hardware, just do it in software, um that would give you the extra battery

life that people want, uh give you the button people want and you maybe even could keep your price at that price point.

>> I, think, that, was, the, other, struggle, for me were the lack of buttons on this where you it is very much touchscreen dependent on here where it's very outdoor focused, right? because it has maps and it has a flashlight and, you

know, it's like it's it's a really capable watch. But then just not to have

capable watch. But then just not to have more capabilities with buttons on here I I think it would have been a hard with this thin of a case, you know, to actually squeeze more buttons in here.

But still, I think that was the other struggle with this one for sure. All

right, so next up on the table, we have the Amazement Helio Band, but we actually did forget to talk about the Whoop 5.0. So we need we definitely need

Whoop 5.0. So we need we definitely need to talk about the Whoop 5.0 before we talk about the Helio Band. So with the Whoop 5.0, I know. So, this was probably the most dramatic release of the year in

terms of like wearable. So, they

introduced three new tiers with the Whoop. So, there's going to be a new one

Whoop. So, there's going to be a new one tier, a new peak tier, and then a new life tier. And the differences between

life tier. And the differences between these is that the one tier is essentially the Whoop 4.0 with the new pricing model where it's a little bit cheaper. But the Whoop Peak plan, so

cheaper. But the Whoop Peak plan, so that's going to be with their new 5.0 hardware here. And then the new life

hardware here. And then the new life plan, that's going to be with their new MG hardware. So, the differences with

MG hardware. So, the differences with their new Peak hardware, the just the regular 5.0 basically, is that they increased the battery life quite a bit.

It's actually the same like heart rate sensor technology and stuff for the most part. But I think the most maybe

part. But I think the most maybe dramatic thing about the Peak plan though was that >> with, Whoop's, subscription, model, in, the past, the big promise basically with that was that you were going to get new

hardware for free when new hardware came out. But that wasn't really the case

out. But that wasn't really the case unfortunately with that. So in terms of like angering your customers, this was probably the most angry I've seen any customer base in in ever really and

rightfully so.

>> It, was, just, a, complete, own, goal,, right?

The whole idea that whoop had had repeatedly said their CEO had said, etc. That party, the whole it's a subscription. You just get new hardware

subscription. You just get new hardware when it comes out. And I think if they played their cards right, they could have still done that and said, "Hey you'll, get, this,, but, it's, going to, take a few months to get through the backlog or something like that." But instead

they said, um, nope, you don't get new hardware until you basically renew again essentially. Um, and if you want it

essentially. Um, and if you want it sooner, you can pay us 50 or something like that bucks to get it sooner. And

people were like, well, no, I don't. In

some cases, people have paid, you know multi-year uh multi-annual sort of renewals already. They won't get

renewals already. They won't get hardware until maybe like Whoop 6.0 at that point. So, it really ticked off a

that point. So, it really ticked off a lot of people. And I think, you know with that, some of the changes uh were pretty modest. Uh, you know, for the 5.0

pretty modest. Uh, you know, for the 5.0 hardware 14-day battery life. I'll give

them credit on that in the fact that it's been legit 14 days. Like for me really solid on that. Um on the MG side which is the higherend unit, uh this is technically an MG1 in a bicep band. So

that's why the the um clasp looks different there. In that case, on the MG

different there. In that case, on the MG side, they added so-called medical grade features. Um one of them being ECG as

features. Um one of them being ECG as well as background aphib detection. Um

those are FDA certif FDA medically certified. That's great. But on the

certified. That's great. But on the other side, you had the blood pressure side, which is 100% not FDA certified.

In fact, they've gotten in big legal trouble with the FDA, and that that battle continues to this day here.

>> And, with, the, blood, pressure, insights,, we actually have a podcast going over that in excruciating detail. So, go ahead and check that video out uh once you're done over here. But yeah, I don't know. Like

over here. But yeah, I don't know. Like

I think that um I think they just lost a lot of their loyal audience that they've had for years. And this is something I mentioned I can't I think probably in our podcast is that you know with

subscription models it's like subscriptions are all about loyalty and where you have to you know deliver you know a you know compelling product or a service and your customers just can keep

paying and you know whether they're happy or not and if they're not happy they're just going to leave and that was like kind of like going against like the complete principle of subscriptions is that you know you just basically angered

your audience at that point. Well, on

top of that too, they made that all the new hardware is incompatible with existing bands or straps as well as existing battery packs. Like if you look at the nuance, they purposefully tweaked

the clasp design to be not compatible.

Like you see with the battery pack in particular where you're like, "No, that absolutely would have fit in the past.

You on purpose changed it a millimeter to make it not compatible." And I get that Whoop has, you know, really leaned heavily on making money on their bands and whatnot, but this just felt so

incredibly petty for already charging people a silly amount of money per year to then say, you know what, you're really already expensive bands and straps that you went and spent maybe

$100 on um are now incompatible. Like

>> I, mean, you, know, I, would, say, that, you know Whoop's new features that they have come out with uh they are pretty novel features like their new health span feature as well as like their pacing

aging feature here but I just don't feel like it just justified what they did with the pricing and how they handled their existing consumers. I mean you know quite simply. So I think it's going

to be pretty interesting to see where Whoop goes from here. When I was just looking at the pricing, the pricing actually um I know there's a whole bunch of like end of year Black Friday sales right now, but I think it's interesting

where the pricing of the one model was originally $1.99 per year, but they have dropped that down to 129 per year now.

So, I'm not sure that's telling or not.

I I don't know.

>> And, the, case, of, the, one, that, 129, deal that is with the 4.0 hardware that then segus nicely into the Amaze Fit Band here.

>> Yes., So,, the, Amaze, Fit, Helio, band., So,

after the launch of the Whoop 5.0, you know, I think that made people want to look for another alternative even more.

So then there's this right here. So

again, going along with Amazefitit, a crazy good deal for what it offered. So

the release for this was a little bit interesting where they first announced it at the Hierrox World Championships as something that they were going to be giving out to their competitors, but it there was like no mention of a public release. So which which would happen

release. So which which would happen basically a month later. So that's this one right here. you know, in terms of this very Whooplike feedback, but it is going to be like a screenless health and activity tracker right here. So, it's

going to track your recovery with sleep.

There's also going to be um training feedback or training analysis through their exertion feature and then there's also a biocharge feature which is basically like, you know, telling you your different energy levels at a given

point in a day. Very much like Garmin's body battery feature. Yeah, in terms of again like how Ry was alluding to earlier where some of Amazefitit's like metrics and numbers are a little bit

funny. That can be very much said here

funny. That can be very much said here but at the same time for $99, it's so hard to complain. And I think it still offered a lot of the core feedback most people needed. But I think more

people needed. But I think more importantly is that the actual accuracy of the data was very good for testing.

>> The, Harvey, accuracy, was, good., I, think where it became troubling for me was the activity recognition piece in terms of how it defined what a workout was or was not, right? Which like I went for some

not, right? Which like I went for some days I would get like 40 workouts over the, course, of the, day, cuz, everything became a workout to end. That's

challenging because the way Whoop does and this will become another issue later on with something else. The way Whoop works is that basically it looks at your heart, rate, over, the, course, of the, entire day and yes it does automatic exercise recognition. It says this is a run, this

recognition. It says this is a run, this is a ride and it's incredibly good at that. It's very very good at that. But

that. It's very very good at that. But

more importantly, it doesn't really care um in the sense that it looks at your heart rate and what values those are and it just puts them in a bucket and says here's your total strain for the day. Um

versus these other companies and polar if it wasn't categorized as activity it wouldn't be correctly bucketized into your strain if you will using Whoops terminology um for the day which was

kind of messy there.

>> Yeah., I, guess, I, wonder, like, you, know, in terms of like feedback that Woot provides versus feedback like this provides. There are some nuance things

provides. There are some nuance things like again like the automatic recognition that you know Woot clearly does a very very good job on but you know in terms of like the more nuance features like the health span feature

and and the pace of aging feature. let

us all know if like those features are actually worth it for you to spend that much more on a Whoop band because I don't know I think most people are probably just looking for recovery

activity tracking and training you know >> well, I, think, that's, an, important, point though one thing that Mazefit does better than Boop is I would argue the training load >> so, setting, aside, whether, it, correctly recognizes the activity um if you did

correctly recognize activity I much prefer a mazefitit's training load um being a more traditional training load as opposed to whoops you 0 to 21 thing right? So, that's just my preference

right? So, that's just my preference there. Um, but you know, to each their

there. Um, but you know, to each their own, I guess.

>> Yep., Totally., So,, moving, on, to, another interesting wearable that came out. So

this is the Garmin Index sleep monitor.

And so, this one was leaked all over the place basically >> by, Garmin, themselves.

>> Yeah., But,, yeah., And, so,, the, funny, thing about this one was again that, you know people have been again clamoring for some sort of like, you know, Whoop alternative out there. And when people saw this from the leaks, that's what

everyone thought this was going to be.

But super interesting because, you know it's like a really, really wide band.

And, you know, it just didn't look like anything else out there. But it ended up just being a sleep monitor. And in terms of like what people are looking for, not necessarily what people are looking for

however, I think it's just an interesting product because it provides all the Garmin sleep tracking without necessarily having to wear something on your wrist. And I think with this like

your wrist. And I think with this like wide band right here, when we first saw the photos, we were like, there's no way this is going to be comfortable. But

this ended up being very, very comfortable.

>> Yeah,, I, was, surprised., It, works, out pretty well.

>> Now,, the, one, last, thing, about, this though is that the price $170.

I would have been way more comfortable at like 100. Yeah.

>> For, something, like, this., I, mean,, it's it's really nice to get your watch off the wrist for sure when you're sleeping but >> it, was, a, lot., Um,, I, say, it, worked, really well. I think to me this is just another

well. I think to me this is just another one of Garmin's technology tests to be honest of how things work. I mean this is essentially the pod inside of it there. You can see it comes right out.

there. You can see it comes right out.

So in my mind this is almost more of a test of basically a Garmin Whoop like competitor down the road like the first beginnings of it. In fact I did some days where I wrote or I wore this

entirely 24 by7 including for workouts and things like that to see the data it pulled in >> and, really, really, close, to, being, a, Whoop band. Like there's a couple little

band. Like there's a couple little things where they purposely toggled it off. You could see they're like, "Oh

off. You could see they're like, "Oh yeah, they turned that off for whatever reason." But otherwise, like you could

reason." But otherwise, like you could basically use that in place of a Garmin device 24 by7 just like a device.

>> Yeah., So

>> obviously, kind, of, weird, with, that, big thing there, though. It's super

comfortable. So, you know, whatever.

>> All right., So,, next, up,, let's, talk, about the new Samsung Galaxy Watch 8 and the new uh Ultra that they have here. So

these were devices I don't think either of the either of us actually covered these quite yet, but you know, in terms of the new 8, they came out with a new design. And this thing is, you know

design. And this thing is, you know once again, it's just absolutely gorgeous. I mean, it's absolutely

gorgeous. I mean, it's absolutely stunning in terms of the design. I don't

think they made much many changes with the new Ultra here though.

>> Double, the, storage, inside, and, made, add, a new battery mode and otherwise they got the um the new OS from Google where OS as well as Gemini integration, etc. But you know, relatively modest update

there. You know, I think the the

there. You know, I think the the standard 8 got a new heart rate sensor on this or a new bio sensor on um but yeah, as well as like new AI features and whatnot, too. So, have you even

thought about like getting any content about that?

>> No,, because, it's, funny., There's, Samsung watches have a really interesting like content curve, if you will.

>> Yeah, >> I, would, say, like, there, is, a, lot, of interest in the first week or two and then there is no interest whatsoever after that. Um, and I think that's for a

after that. Um, and I think that's for a couple reasons. one, unlike every other

couple reasons. one, unlike every other watch on this table, Samsung heavily bundles these watches with their phones when you buy a new phone. Um, and

heavily dis there's these are the only two watches on this table where they are discounted prior to them even being announced, right? They literally put

announced, right? They literally put these watches and say, "Hey, if you sign up now to buy these watches, we will give you a discount before we even announce what the watches are." They

just say, "We have a new Galaxy watch."

And then once they announce them, they add even more deals around um you know if you turn in your existing watch, you pay like silly amounts of money, like in some cases like 30 or 40 bucks to get the new watch, right? I what I find is

that the people who are mostly, and there are obviously lots of people buying these watches, popular, but the people that buy these watches don't tend to care as much about our reviews. They

tend to be something that they got with their phone or getting an incredible deal on and they're gonna use and buy this watch anyways. Um, and so I don't

think I've got a single comment since the summer requesting this watch.

>> I, think, these, watches, are, tough,, too, because Samsung likes to boil the ocean in terms of features on these watches.

So, in terms of the amount of work that we actually have to put into them, it's a crazy amount just because there are just so so many features on there. And

you know, some features are goods and some features are, I don't know, like purely marketing fluffy.

>> Yeah., Yeah., we, especially, with, Samsung and on the sports side especially Samsung has a long history of announcing sports features that just do not work in any way shape or form. Um and so FTP integration etc. So that that kind of

thing right and the funny thing is I bought these on on launch day. I went to town and actually bought these from a store um in person with the intent of getting them out and then I didn't and then once you get past that initial

curve on a Samsung launch they're just evaporates from a interest stand. And

here's the thing, the Pixel Watch 4 and the Samsung watches, they're very, very capable watches, but you know, in terms of interest level, I'm not sure how it actually translates over to through the rest of it. So, yeah.

>> Anyways,, let's, talk, about, the, new, Polar Loop now. So, Polar had their Polar 360

Loop now. So, Polar had their Polar 360 band that they announced for B2B or businessto business type applications where let's say a gym could purchase one of those and then they actually could

brand that under their own like gym or company name and then have like some sort of like health and activity tracker for that member at that point. So

anyways, this is basically the consumer version at this point. But this one again was like kind of an interesting announcement where they like first announced it in July and then and they

finally released it in September. And

again a Whoop light competitor, but this was interesting just because like I think in terms of like the Whoop fashion statement and the Whoop look, they nailed it on this one. But in terms of

like the Whoop feedback, totally different story.

>> Yeah., I, think, was, also, interesting, about this too is they went out of the gate in that initial announcement saying it will be non-subscription based right and then they didn't give us any details about anything. I think they really missed

anything. I think they really missed some opportunities there, which would be unfortunately the theme with this device to like cement. They didn't give us the name at the beginning. They said, "We're going to, give, you, a, new, device,, but, we won't tell you the name. We won't tell you the price. We'll just tell you it's

a non-subscription based." And of course, we knew would be based on the 360 because we knew Polar. Um, and in the end, it was literally the 360 just a different clasp uh styling. Uh, and they

increased the battery slightly internally to give it an extra day or two of battery life. Um, and I have been using the 360 before I used the Polar Loop. And so I kind of went into it hot.

Loop. And so I kind of went into it hot.

Um, understanding how that device worked. Um, and in the end it's the

worked. Um, and in the end it's the exact same device.

>> So,, but, in, terms, of, the, hardware, and like I said, the fashion statement, they absolutely nailed it on this in terms of the app and the feedback that it provides. This is the This is the

provides. This is the This is the struggle bus quite frankly for the Polar Loop where I don't think they quite got that concept where the thing that makes Whoop whoop really other than the

fashion statement is that the app and the feedback that provides is really well done like extremely well done and I don't even know what to say to be honest with you. I think this is an example of

with you. I think this is an example of expectation misalignment, right? And

that myself and others and the entire world had expected and said all you need to do Polar is make a screenless device.

Take your Polar 360 and basically just offer it to the world for a reasonable price and the Polar Flow platform. But I

think what we sort of forgot was all the nuance to how Whoop in particular delivers that data into that platform.

In particular, one key thing I talked about earlier on with the Mazefitit is that Whoop is constantly monitoring that heart rate behind the scenes and assigning that strain to it. And when

both the Mazefitit, but especially in a case of Polar came into that, they didn't assign that strain um to anything outside an activity. So unless it was caught by activity recognition on

Polar's uh platform, there was no strain to it. And unfortunately, Polar's

to it. And unfortunately, Polar's activity recognition was astoundingly bad. um really really bad. Like I can't

bad. um really really bad. Like I can't imagine how bad this would have been going into it. And then you get into it you're like, "Wow, it missed like half my run. It missed entire rides. It would

my run. It missed entire rides. It would

stop tracking midway through a three-hour ride in the mountains. Like

all this stuff that just made the entire thing fall apart because if you weren't assigning strain, you no longer had a use for this device."

>> What's, interesting, though, is, that, the automatic recognition has gotten a lot better. So for me, I actually for my re

better. So for me, I actually for my re recent testing over the last few months the auto recognition actually is is fantastic for me. I think for me the struggle is actually the delivery of

that data in the app where it actually is collecting a lot of good data here and there but in terms it's how it's actually presented to us which is like it's basically like these like little

blocks that just kind of like they kind of just collected in the center but they didn't actually make sense of all that data like in one and that's again where Whoop does a fantastic job of this and

to be honest with you I think Amazement does a fantastic job of this too. Amaze

Fence is pretty good too. I would say this is something that and the key is that everyone had said this to Polar for a year or two years prior when they when the 360 was first announced the key feedback that I think I even put my very

first video on the 360 which again that's the business one is I said Polar has to look at their app and redesign their app to be more user friendly and at this point in time like they showed

off some things back this past summer of like hey >> promising, look, promising, it's, coming later on this year maybe early next year but that was just way too late like That that should have been there at launch.

And again, I go back to like I want Polar succeed. I want Polar succeed with

Polar succeed. I want Polar succeed with this more than anything else.

>> We, were, saying, this, last, year, >> like, last, year., Yeah., Like, what, I, just don't understand. This is probably the

don't understand. This is probably the best example of what are you doing? Like

I look at all the people they've they have hired there and all the software updates that have not come out for their other Polar devices. What are they doing?

>> And, this, is, exactly, the, same, thing, we said in last year's video. Exactly the

same. Yeah

>> this, should, have, been, the, device, of, the year. We should be sitting here talking

year. We should be sitting here talking about this being the device of the year and instead it is arguably the biggest flop of the year.

>> Yeah., I, mean,, if, you, look, at, the, Reddit threads on the Polar Loop, they're now positive.

>> Yeah., And, again,, Polar, is, making progress here. Like I'm wearing one, by

progress here. Like I'm wearing one, by the way. I'm wearing one with a chorus

the way. I'm wearing one with a chorus band. I've been wearing one now for

band. I've been wearing one now for months. I wear mostly as a bicep band

months. I wear mostly as a bicep band occasionally on my wrist, but bicep band. And like you said, it's in I think

band. And like you said, it's in I think November is when things started to really, turn, a, little bit, on, the, software side of this from an accuracy standpoint and recognition of activities, etc. It's just the the UI on the app is still not

great. I can personally get beyond that.

great. I can personally get beyond that.

Um it's not good to like recommend from a review standpoint, but I can get beyond that. I understand it myself, but

beyond that. I understand it myself, but I wanted to be sitting here going like this is the best device on this table.

>> Yeah,, I, completely, agree, with, you.

Completely agree with you. Another

missed opportunity, unfortunately. All

right, so next up, let's talk about the new Chorus Nomad. And this one was built as their new adventure watch. And I

think a lot of people were expecting, I think probably us included, that Chorus's next watch after the Pace Pro was going to be another AMOLED watch but they actually came out with this watch, which was pretty novel in this

year's releases for sure, where this is another memory and pixel watch that gets really, really long battery life. But

they also changed around the interface a little bit on this where they introduced new action button as well as a kind of like a new layout of some of the buttons and the dial and stuff like that. But

they also added uh kind of a novel microphone but no speaker on here. And

the microphone was primarily going to be used for their new adventure journaling feature where you could actually take voice notes during your activity which would be geotagged and also auto transcribed in the app. And then you can

kind of like put that all together into this uh like adventure journal and activity. The other thing with this

activity. The other thing with this watch is that it also added fishing profile. So pretty interesting watch. Um

profile. So pretty interesting watch. Um

again I think it kind of like bucked the trend of AMOLED watches throughout the year. Very much hitting a different

year. Very much hitting a different audience I think.

>> Yeah., We, talked, about, in, our, recent podcast on this that just went out.

Basically like this is essentially looking like a lot like an Instinct. The

Instinct looks a lot like a Casio right? So it's it's a continued thing

right? So it's it's a continued thing there. I think it it fits into the

there. I think it it fits into the lineup. It's interesting. I'm not sure

lineup. It's interesting. I'm not sure if it hit the landing spot where they thought it would. I think it needs some tweaking. Like not from a hardware

tweaking. Like not from a hardware standpoint. I think it's actually fine

standpoint. I think it's actually fine there. I think from a marketing

there. I think from a marketing standpoint, like I to me, I'm not convinced there's a big market for a fishing watch. I think they could take

fishing watch. I think they could take that marketing message, redo it as their outdoorsy watch. Yeah.

outdoorsy watch. Yeah.

>> Right., Like, this, this, should, be, marketed as the like hunting, outdoorsy, whatever white you want to call it realm, not so much the fishing side of it.

>> Yeah., And, really, in, terms, of, the, looks on it, again, like the Garmin Instinct definitely took a ton of inspiration from uh the Casio G-Shock watches, but I think that was like something we joked about in our reviews of this is that you know, this is the new Choros

Instinct. Uh but again, it's a very

Instinct. Uh but again, it's a very popular design. Everyone copies everyone

popular design. Everyone copies everyone at this point, so it is what it is. But

um I think uh great release from Choros in general, though.

>> All right., Next, up,, let's, talk, about, the new Google Pixel 4. And this was the first smartwatch to come out with satellite connectivity. Previously

satellite connectivity. Previously before that, you'd had to get an actual like handheld satellite device like Garmin's InReach devices to get any sort of connectivity there. But this is the first watch to come out with that. And

in terms of the actual use case for this, so this is going to be centered around emergency and SOS features. So

basically, if you get into a a pickle outside of cell phone service, you can actually use the satellite connectivity to get help.

>> Yep., Absolutely., And, so, that, was, it's funny cuz like from here until here these all came out within a two week span and uh in that two week span that Google led with the satellite announcement piece in terms of being the

very first watch to announce satellite connectivity direct to the watch itself and again two-way messaging um in emergency sense and then by the end of that two week span we'd have Garmin and Apple joining that frey and then

ultimately Pixel would actually be the last one to ship this watch in the October time frame with unfortunately the least amount of satellite features which is it's too bad they had such an amazing like uh start to it. Um I think

also it's worthwhile noting though that this watch has a pretty increased integration on not only the W OS side but eventually on the Fitbit app side as well for uh basically AI integration and whatnot which I think was is super well

done with the new Fitbit app in particular.

>> Yeah, and, the, new, Fitbit, app., So

basically that's in beta or public preview right public preview right now.

So, it's going to be basically a massive overhaul to actual Fitbit app, but there's also going to be a whole lot of AI health coaching features in there as well where you can ask it like pretty much anything that you want. And it's

very, very impressive. Neither of us have done like full reviews of that at this point because it's kind of like a deep rabbit hole that you definitely have to use for a while before you can actually for about three or four weeks

I think, before I had to move different watch or move wrists around. I'm

impressed. I was super impressed with it. I think it's by far the best AI

it. I think it's by far the best AI implementation that I've seen um in a sports scenario across the board. I am

generally speaking not a big AI fan um in terms of like content creation, all that kind of stuff, but um or just using it day-to-day, but this was super well done and the number of times it

hallucinated was relatively minimal. It

did kind of like kept to its lane. So

um I'm I'm impressed with that. I'm I'm

curious to see where that goes into the new year. And I think one more notable

new year. And I think one more notable improvement on the Pixel Watch 4 is that it has longer battery life now, which is makes a meaningful difference. Again

you know, we're talking within that couple days sort of range on this, but the charging was like crazy on this.

>> Charging, amazing.

>> I, was, just, like,, you, could, place, it, on, a charger, next thing you know, it was like 50%. It was like bonkers. Like

like 50%. It was like bonkers. Like

absolutely bonkers. So that does make a difference, especially with a watch that only does have a couple days of battery life. So again, um the the Pixel Watch

life. So again, um the the Pixel Watch 4, it's it's very much like the Samsung watches that we just talked about. uh a

second ago though in terms of like interest level. I think Samsung watches

interest level. I think Samsung watches do have higher interest level than a Pixel Watch 4, but >> this, watch, I, feel, like, it, I, feel, like more people should be interested in it but there's nothing necessarily unique

about the design unfortunately and I think that's what's holding it back still at this point. I think that every other watch on this table probably has a pretty unique design element around it and it's very sleek. It's very smooth.

It's like super super comfortable, but I'm just not sure if it is unique enough for people to really want to wear that watch.

>> Yeah,, I, think, I've, we've, both, said, it numerous times. I think the Pixel Watch

numerous times. I think the Pixel Watch needs a different design. I I recognize that some people like the Circle. Um I

recognize that that fits for some people, but in terms of drawing people into that watch brand, I don't think it's doing any favors. No. Um, and I

think it's it's in my mind a Pixel Watch should be something that um is getting some of the most views on this table outside of, you know, realistically

Apple and like it just it should be it should be carrying way more weight in terms of interest into this watch. And

for whatever reason, it's unfortunately not because they're doing an amazing job on the software side um and on some of those underlying hardware components but I think that the overall design is just letting it down.

>> Yep., Totally.

>> All, right., So,, next, up,, let's, talk, about the new Sundto Race 2 right here. And

with the Race 2, they made it a little bit thinner, a little bit lighter, but the most compelling thing about this one is that they included a new heart rate sensor on here, which this was enormous

for me because with the original race that was a fantastic watch in terms of like lots of software features, really great durable build, a fantastic look on it, great price, but it's just so hard

to recommend because the heart rate accuracy. But, you know, this totally

accuracy. But, you know, this totally changed that completely. And then one more thing is that they also made the interface like crazy fast on this thing where it's just like super super smooth.

Again, that was something that was kind of a, struggle, on, the, original, race,, but again, they kept the price really competitive.

>> Really, competitive., Also,, brighter display,, too., Um,, and, yeah,, I, think it's

display,, too., Um,, and, yeah,, I, think it's it's a it's a great watch. It'll be

interesting though in just a second when we talk about the vertical 2 down the road there as to kind of some of the the choices they made. Um, but yeah, I'm I'm really happy with the race 2. I mean, I would say that this is probably like in terms of like most improved award or

something like that, this was this would absolutely be it. So, you know, going back to like the 570 in terms of like mid-range, this hits that mid-range sweet spot really really well. And this

does have maps. Easy recommendation for a mid-range.

>> Yeah,, totally.

>> Sports, watch, right, here., So,

>> going, to, the, other, end, of, the, price spectrum, we have the new Fenix 8 Pro.

So, they added LT functionality as well as satellite connectivity to this. So

the LTE functionality is not quite the same as like something that you get on like a Samsung watch or an Apple Watch where you have like pretty much like full connectivity across the board, but um you still do get like texting

functionality. Some of that is tied to

functionality. Some of that is tied to the Garmin Messenger app, but then you can also send texts as well to like other numbers, but it's going to come from like a Garmin like like Garmin's

own random number sort of thing. So

it's not like traditional smartwatch cellular connectivity in this.

Then the other thing is that it also has satellite connectivity just like the Pixel Watch 4 right here. Then there's

also going to be like stuff like live tracking that you can do over LTE as well. But maybe the the biggest thing

well. But maybe the the biggest thing that people were talking about maybe on this was the the price where this this >> guys, jumped, again.

>> This, got, basically, 200, bucks, more.

>> Um, and, that's, after, last, year's, price increases and also the fact that there wasn't a small edition this year. So and

there wasn't a myip edition either. um

which I can kind of understand the lack of MIP edition if you're doing every other year or something like that, but the lack of small edition for a watch and it's something that irritates my wife to no end. Um and that she really

wanted a LTE connected watch from a safety standpoint when she's out for her run. She's actually just about to go out

run. She's actually just about to go out for a long run here um shortly and we'll be running until it gets dark out basically. And so she wants the ability

basically. And so she wants the ability to have a connected watch, but this is just be too big for her wrist. It's as

simple as that. and she normally runs with a uh Fenix uh 8 but a smaller edition one um and there isn't one that fits her wrist and I've effectively forced her to run with this sometimes

from a testing standpoint and she hates it cuz it's just so big and just causes bruising on her on her wristbones there.

Um so to me that was a a huge miss for such a for a feature that is really focused on safety and connectivity to not be there for big chunk of the population that wants it.

>> Yeah., Yeah., So, they, actually, did increase the size on all of their models on these. So, this one's actually going

on these. So, this one's actually going to be a little bit thicker than the normal Fenix A2. So, I would assume that's probably the reason that they didn't come out with a smaller version is that, you know, it would been it would probably been a really tall watch at that point to be able to squeeze in

all this technology in here. up. Going

back to pricing really quick though it's like I I don't know like the Fenix 8 was a was a jump, but I think a lot of people did actually purchase a Fenix 8

where this watch I'm not as sure about because it was a big bump from the 8 to the 8 Pro and it's getting into like I don't want to say unattainable territory, but it's it's getting really up there.

>> Well,, and, we, saw, the, the, impact, of, this, right? Garmin's outdoor division, which

right? Garmin's outdoor division, which is the division that covers the Phoenix and Instinct and a few other devices in that realm, missed their earnings this year by a lot by like $250 million for I think the quarter of the end of the year

for that that segment. Massive miss. And

they tried to attribute it to like well the timing was different. It was a week later than last year. And then they they had some things they try to kind of to assign it to, but I don't really believe all those things because if that was the

case that they wouldn't have lowered their expectations for the earnings for the rest of the year, which is what they did. um they lowered them for the fourth

did. um they lowered them for the fourth quarter as well. So, in my mind, that's telling you something isn't working in the outdoor segment from a product standpoint. And I think it's probably a

standpoint. And I think it's probably a combination of things. I think it's one this is just simply priced too high um relative to everything else on the table in the past history of devices. And I

wonder other portions of that segment.

So, if you look at Instinct, um how that contributes to uh you know that overall revenue pie, right? And we're not talking percentage- wise, we're not talking missing it by 50%, right? So

you got to understand here, we're talking a billion dollar plus um group within Garmin, right? So, small

percentages really add up. And if you miss it by a couple percent here and a couple percent there and so on, that starts to get that ball rolling to be your 250 million or whatever it was that

they're short. And that's where I think

they're short. And that's where I think those decisions matter. And I I just think the pricing is too high on this.

And it'll be interesting to see what happens on the next version. Um, and I get that, you know, Garmin, like all these companies, was trying to figure out how to deal with evershifting tariffs, um, or tariff expectations

because we said earlier, tariffs are impacting these devices in particular but ultimately I think the overall like response to this was just way too high in price. U, which is two bags. I think

in price. U, which is two bags. I think

they're doing cool things from a technology standpoint. Totally. Um, like

technology standpoint. Totally. Um, like

a ton of new software features in this device. Many of them, of course, carried

device. Many of them, of course, carried over from the 4Runner side we talked about earlier on. uh the consolidation of the software to Garmin's credit. The

Fenix 8 nonpro, the one that came out a year ago, um did get all these same software features. So, maintaining

software features. So, maintaining software parody across the board, but it felt like really for the first time ever, the Phoenix train like just

>> kind, of, halt, halted, a, little, bit.

>> Yeah., Like, it, didn't, it, didn't, leave, a station like they thought it would. to

Phoenix has been really for the last decade plus been like this train that just keeps getting stronger and bigger and better every year from a business unit standpoint and from a product standpoint but really from a business

unit standpoint and this is the first year it was just like went all sideways.

>> Well,, speaking, of, cool, technology, and pricing, let's go ahead and talk about the little bad boy. Not little, actually the big bad nothing little.

>> So,, this, is, the, big, this, is, the, biggest watch I think we're going to talk about this here. So, this is the Fenix 8 Pro

this here. So, this is the Fenix 8 Pro MicroLEDD. So, the two interesting

MicroLEDD. So, the two interesting things about this watch are that it's the first watch that's going to come with a microLEDD display and then the second is going to be the price. So, uh

let's talk about the microLEDD display first. So in terms of this kind of

first. So in terms of this kind of technology like you know when we first heard about this you know when we looked up you know everything about this uh type of tech is that you know with microLEDD it's supposed to promise a lot

longer battery life as well as like it's supposed to also promise a lot longer longevity in terms of the display. So in

terms of like screen burnin and stuff like that. So the battery life though

like that. So the battery life though that didn't necessarily translate over to this >> didn't, necessarily, translate., So, the explanation we got is that it doesn't necessarily translate to this form

factor where you know in terms of like uh efficiency with a larger form factor with like a computer display it does actually make more sense but it doesn't actually translate over to this right

here in terms of brightness though that's crazy like this thing is bonkers where was it 35 it's it's just absolutely insane and it's basically it's too bright.

>> Last, night, is, a, great, example., Last

night we were at a dinner theater sort of thing. Oh yeah.

of thing. Oh yeah.

>> And, I'm, sitting, there, with, both, these watches on uh in this dark theater and this one is as bright as you see on the screen right now. And my Apple Watch Ultra 3 is just dim in a theater as you

would expect. Like and this has been

would expect. Like and this has been repeatedly the case that this watch is too bright. And you can turn the Garmin

too bright. And you can turn the Garmin can bring this display down at night time when it goes into a sleep mode. The

display is fine because it's nice and dim. But they have it a setting that's

dim. But they have it a setting that's super low on that. But otherwise it is way too bright. And I guess this is the thing where like Garmin's been doing cool things technologically all year

round, all year long, but it feels like no one has basically kind of pulled that back and said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. We

don't need the brightness level as bright is." And I have it on the lowest

bright is." And I have it on the lowest setting, by the way, and does just turn it up to full brightness setting here.

And this is even as full bright as gets cuz once it the sun hits it, it gets even brighter um because it it ramps up and all this stuff. But

>> in, my, mind,, this, watch, I, this, price, is 1,800 bucks, right? like insanity levels of pricing.

>> Is, it, $2,000?

>> It's, $2,000$799.

>> No,, $2,000.

>> Even, more, insanity., Like, I, The, only reason I'm wearing this watch, by the way, is because when I activated on day zero to start my review process, this is just the first one I activated on uh cellular and satellite. And at the time

up until just a couple weeks ago, you could only have one Garmin watch activated at a time on the um LTE and satellite sort of thing. This just

happened to be the one. That's just the one end of my wrist. But it's been really eye opening to see how much this watch has missed the mark. Um I also use another uh Fenix 8 that's um just a regular Fenix 8 Pro that has it without

the micro LED >> from, a, brightness, etc, standpoint, and testing and all the fun stuff. But

>> I, feel, like, this, just, completely, missed what Garmin stood for. I don't know.

Like I just don't I don't get this. So

I think okay, my theory with this one goes back to the sleep monitor thing where my theory with this is that I think this is really like a technology showcase sort of thing like just to test

the waters to see how it actually like would actually be received. However, the

price it's just going to make it be received negatively overall just because of the price of this thing basically where it's just like people weren't talking about how cool the microLEDD technology was. People were talking

technology was. People were talking about the price of this unfortunately >> and, they, could, have, mitigated, against that in one of two ways. One, they could have gone out of the gate and you put this in something like a Mark series

watch or something higher end to be like, "Hey, this is going to be crazy expensive. Deal with it. It's bark. It

expensive. Deal with it. It's bark. It

is what it is, right?" Um, and that would have been fine um relatively speaking. Or two, they could have

speaking. Or two, they could have briefed that out of the gate, too right? At no point when they announced

right? At no point when they announced this watch where they're like, "Hey, we see this as a technology demonstrator.

Don't expect good battery life, expect brightness, right? Instead, it was just

brightness, right? Instead, it was just here's microLEDD, go forth. And I think the overall reaction from everyone has been super negative because as you said the expectations of MicroLEDD, um, based

on everything we know about this technology up until this point in time was all about battery life. Um, and it has been the complete opposite. It gets

generally speaking horrendous battery life. I think the most fascinating thing

life. I think the most fascinating thing about this will be the next generation of this and like what that shows in terms of the first of all I think price size one thing because it is just a it's

a really really thick watch and then price too. Um so yeah I I I'm really

price too. Um so yeah I I I'm really curious to see where this goes from here. But again I think that it really

here. But again I think that it really was like a testing the water sort of thing. um

thing. um >> which, is, we, have, to, be, fair, if, we've seen Garmin always use your X series watch in the past, right? The largest of the Fenix watches as a technology demonstrator watch, but it didn't seem

like they stuck the landing on that concept this time around in terms of how they executed it. And again, as always like how you position something and execute something matters just as much as the technology itself.

>> Yep,, totally., All, right,, so, going, to, the opposite end of the value scale here.

So, we have to talk about the new AmazeFrit T-Rex 3 Pro right here. And

really the big ticket item with the T-Rex 3 Pro is that they came out with a LED flashlight just like the Fenix series. And this is the first watch

series. And this is the first watch outside of Garmin to actually have this feature. And uh other than that, there

feature. And uh other than that, there were some like additional like navigation features.

>> So,, they, tried, to, be, the, first, company to do routable maps on here. It didn't

work at all. And a lot of people got really upset because I I was pretty harsh on this one. Um because this was what 399 I think >> somewhere, around, there.

>> Um, in, the, previous,, you, know,, T-Rex, 3s have been roughly at uh about 270 I think officially, but realistically they sit at 230ish the entire year. And so I said, you know, look, the flashlight

cool, good job there. Super well done.

They copied the UI from Garmin, which we talked about our podcast uh just the other day. Um very good job. Because

other day. Um very good job. Because

didn't really copy the UI we'll talk about in the vertical 2 and didn't really work out all that well in the flashlight, but the UI here is great. It

works out great. a lot of extra flashlight features. Good job. But the

flashlight features. Good job. But the

other core marketing thing they really harped on was being or having now routable maps on this. So if you went off course, we talked about earlier on it would route you back on course. It

hard did not work. We both tried it on different continents like within one block it failed. Like just immediately failed. Um, and so to me, you know, if

failed. Um, and so to me, you know, if you're going to charge 400 bucks for that watch, you're now in the territory of the, you know, mid-range Sundtos or the mid-range, um, choruses or others

that have those higher quality, uh sports features and stuff like that, but you're not delivering on that. So, now

you're basically charging realistically 170 bucks more for a flashlight.

>> Yeah., And, Amaze, has, almost, the, same problem that Samsung does in terms of the boily ocean thing where they just try to do it. They just tried to do so much and that's where they're they could

probably just use more refinement on some of the core features and maybe hold back on like trying to deliver everything all the but whatever it's like 350 400 bucks whatever the case may be still a great value for what this

watch offers >> me, though, this, should, have, been, priced at like 329 at most um realistically $299 if you use Amaze pricing again a maze fits a scale here for pricing so use Amaze pricing drop a T-Rex down

permanently to$ 229 like in a cororo style um the T-Rex 3 nonpro that is and then pro at $299. Um and we didn't see this discounted over the holidays, I don't believe at all either, which I was surprised um really to not see that

discounted there. But um yeah, people

discounted there. But um yeah, people got a bit upset that I was so harsh on them on that one. But I think to me that was a culmination though of >> so, many, years, of, Amazefitit, having

unfinished sloppy software. Um and this you see this in Reddit all the time right? Where it's unfinished, sloppy.

right? Where it's unfinished, sloppy.

Um, and like when your marquee feature doesn't work, and I I was equally harsh by the way, as you remember, on the 4Runner 970 when it came out, on the mapping and routing navigation fails here because it showed the exact same

thing as a Maze Fit that no one ever tested it. Um, because I was so

tested it. Um, because I was so confident this would fail that I went out with one of their Garmin's executives across a parking lot and in 50 meters it failed. Right. To show them how the navigation did not work and no

one had ever tested it.

>> Yep., All right., So,, next, up,, we, have, a quadfecta. I think that's the correct

quadfecta. I think that's the correct word for the Apple releases this year.

And so, we have three new Apple watches.

We have the SD3, we have the Series 11 and we have the Ultra 3. Uh, let's start out with uh let's start with the SE3 first really quick. So, the big news with this one is that they finally added an always on display to their SE series.

And it was basically getting, you know it was getting a little bit awkward that the SE2 was, I think, probably the last like smartwatch on the market that didn't have an always on display mode.

So, they finally added that with the SE3, but they actually added a whole bunch of other features here, too. Like

they added their one-handed like double tap gesture features. There's also the sleep apnea notifications. Yeah, they

also added skin temp as well. And we saw them really kind of leaning a little bit more heavily into the health side of it if you will, on this watch in terms of bringing those features in there. But I

think really as you said the big one here was the added the always on display. And so that made this watch I

display. And so that made this watch I think a lot more compelling and also a lot more competitive in a sense that every other watch here on AMOLED frankly every other watch in the market down to even like a 100 bucks had an always on

display option and Apple never had that on the SE. So good to see this priced at what$249 normally I believe.

>> Uh, yeah, right, around, there., But, they kept the price the same basically as previous generation which was awesome to see.

>> But, we, also, already, saw, in, the, holidays here down to $21.99. Right. So we we often see the SC down in sub2 Harour.

>> Mhm., Yeah., No,, this, is, a, this, is, a really really good recommendation for that um entry level watch that actually does quite a bit. So next up we have the Series 11. And with this one, not quite

Series 11. And with this one, not quite as compelling of upgrades. I think the big one actually with the Series 11 was that they increased the battery life on this one to as you alluded to in our podcast the um instead of like all day

battery life, it's all day battery life now. So I think it went up from like 18

now. So I think it went up from like 18 hours to 24 full hours now. But again

with Apple Watch battery life, they are very conservative with their numbers, at least from our testing, that I can easily get like a day and a half out of mine before actually having to recharge it. So, yeah, I think that was really

it. So, yeah, I think that was really the big story with the Series 11. I

think there were there were a couple other features like, oh, they added the blood pressure insights or hypertension notifications. Yeah, that's exactly what

notifications. Yeah, that's exactly what the word is with that.

>> And, of, course,, 5G, on, across, the, board, on all their free watches.

>> Yeah,, usually., Yeah., And, here's, the thing with Apple watches is that they since they usually have, you know, two or three different uh models they come out with each year. Usually one watch like gets a little bit more love than

the other watch. Like last year they had the Series 10 got a good amount of love where the Apple Watch Ultra 2 didn't necessarily get as much love, but this year the Series 11 a little bit more of an incremental upgrade. However, the

Ultra 3 that we can talk about right here, this one was the bigger upgrade this year where this also got the satellite messaging feature, but it also got the find my feature over uh

satellite. And then

satellite. And then >> uh, and, then, of, course, the, emergency, SOS piece too.

>> Yeah.

>> The, satellite, messaging, feature, is really actually quite unique for this watch compared to all the other watches out there.

>> Yeah., Yeah., it, it's, basically, uh different technology behind the scenes and which satellite connect satellite providers they use and in my experience it's the best of the three when it comes to satellite messaging. It's just so

much more reliable.

It's the fastest to respond. The

downside is it's much more limited. So

as of right now, for example, the Apple Watch um implementation of satellite messaging doesn't work in Europe. It

only works for the SOS piece and the find my piece. Um, so that is a bit of a bummer um that I can't do that versus on the Garmin side, I can satellite message anywhere in Europe without any problem.

Um, and I think over time we'll see that change. Like again, Japan just got

change. Like again, Japan just got satellite messaging uh just last week and that was kind of one of the markets where we saw those differences as well.

Um, so I'm hoping we'll see it here uh because the implementation is just really really fast and how it kind of like, keeps, that, lock., And, one, of the things to understand about satellite messaging whether it's on your phone or on the watch is you sort of have to keep

it pointed at the satellite. Um, but

here it sort of like vaguely will hold that lock a little bit in different positions and then quickly relock it when you point it somewhere else. Uh, so

yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing this uh hopefully expand into Europe as well.

>> Now,, just, like, the, Series, 11,, the, Ultra 3 also got longer battery life out of this now where I mean this is like this is a strong two plus days out of this which I think again is going to be really really compelling. So, it's like

they're starting to eek into better battery life. And this is actually the

battery life. And this is actually the first battery life increases we've seen like on the series watches ever really.

They're still not getting to I think what people really really want, but I think it's getting to be a lot more usable with this as well. So, and then next up, we can talk about the new

AirPods Pro 3. So, we kind of teased these a little bit earlier when we were talking about the Power Beats Power Beats Pro 2os over there, but these also have a heart rate sensor on these. And

when we first heard about this, you know, during the briefing, we were like "Oh, heart rate sensors." And our first thoughts immediately went back to the uh Power Beats Pro 2. We're like, "Oh, dear this." But

this." But >> I, tell, you, what,, this, was, the, most impressive product I thought of this year. Um, I think that, you know, one

year. Um, I think that, you know, one it definitely I think not only fulfilled expectations, but it exceeded expectations in terms of the accuracy.

Like that was like I would never use those for heart rate tracking. These I'm

actually using these now as a new reference source in my reviews.

Astonishingly, >> it's, astonishingly, good., And, then, we're talking like across the board, running cycling, weight training, like all the things. Like so so good. That was

things. Like so so good. That was

awesome. as well as much better sound quality than the previous generation too. There's like other things like even

too. There's like other things like even like two times better A&C and a couple other things there, too. However, unlike

the Power Beats Pro 2s where those actually worked on an Android platform these don't really work on an Android platform. Again, you can't pair these to

platform. Again, you can't pair these to a third party device like let's say a bike computer for that heart tracking heart tracking bit. But these are very much locked down to iOS now where I mean

basically to to use the heart track heart rate tracking bit you either have to use the new workout function in the fitness app on your phone or any other app that actually has tied into that heart rate tracking bit of the health

kit API.

>> Just, a, bit, of, a, disappointment, there., I

really hope to see them use some of those standards that exist, but unfortunately not. All right. So, next

unfortunately not. All right. So, next

up we have I think the other very unique watch of the year. So, this is the new Let's get the name right. Garmin

Instinct Crossover AMOLED, but realistically, this is the Instinct 3 crossover. That's that's really what it

crossover. That's that's really what it should what it should be called. So, so

this is their like hybrid smartwatch here where they basically took the Instinct 3 and they put real analog hands over the uh AMOLED display here.

But in terms of like the actual interface here, it's so so darn neat.

So, it does still have those moving hands where you can see the hands actually move out of the way depending on where you are in the interface. But

really, really neat implementation of how they did this here. So, I think the big thing that made this watch stand out much more than the previous generation crossover is that I kind of had a hard time seeing that memory pistol display

over the analog hands and whatnot where I could just see this so much better.

And >> it's, a, cool, watch.

>> It's, it's, just, a, really, really, cool watch and had like tons of different Easter eggs on it too. So like watch faces here. So these are actually

faces here. So these are actually dynamic where you see these three little circles right here. So what these do is that they'll actually move along with the hands during the time of day to kind of like move out of the way so you can

always see your data on here. Just

really really cool that >> clever, stuff.

>> Yeah,, really, really, clever, stuff., Now,

the price of this was I can't even remember,, but, it, was, like, a hundred, plus dollars more than the regular Instinct 3, which I see the appeal with a watch like this, but I think they priced

themselves a little bit out of range on those.

>> I, guess, I, was, surprised, given, the, fact that we've seen the existing Instinct crossover editions just discounted so quickly and so um viciously that was

like I I didn't expect them to do another one, right? and sell the other one and then raise the price. It's like

well, did you Wait, what? Um, but you know, Garmin does Garmin pricing things.

So, >> yeah,, I, mean,, we'll, we'll, definitely eventually see this one discounted a bit, which, you know, at that point it'll definitely be a better value. But

in terms of like really really neat weird watches of the year, this one absolutely was one of my favorites. So

talking about interesting decisions, we have the new Sundto Vertical 2.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yep., So, to, vertical, 2, is, taking, the existing vertical and throwing it away and instead yeah instead putting an AMOLED display in there. The past

vertical was uh their midbase display longer battery life lasting unit um with solar in it and all that kind of stuff and they said no we're just going to do AMOLED and we just finished a podcast talking a lot about this um and kind of our thoughts on this. And it's

interesting one of the things to understand here they also added a flashlight by the way that's probably the the marquee feature as well. Uh the

first time Sunundas had a flashlight in a watch. Um, so super cool to see that.

a watch. Um, so super cool to see that.

You know, we saw Amaze FedE added after Garmin up with three vendors with flashlights in there. And this watch, I think a concern everyone's had was around battery life and that you the vertical is designed for super long

battery life. You throw an AMOLED

battery life. You throw an AMOLED display, does that hold up? And to

Sundto's credit, their battery life is incredible here. Um, and I tested it out

incredible here. Um, and I tested it out on a 15 hourish trek. Really, really

impressive stuff. All that, you know details my full review, but um, they definitely hit some pretty high battery life numbers. some of the best in the

life numbers. some of the best in the business right now in terms of AMOLED displays. Is it as much as you would get

displays. Is it as much as you would get on a solarbased mid display um on a really sunny day in a sunny location?

No. It's still going to fall short of that. Um, and I think I think that's

that. Um, and I think I think that's okay though because I think as we talked about in our um podcast episode on this that ultimately Sun's recognizing that it's really tough for them to compete against something like the Enduro 3

which is sort of that like battery king if you will, um, for a mid-based solar display, crazy long battery life, etc. And it's better for them to say, you know what, we can do an incredible

AMOLED uh, battery scenario there uh with a flashlight if you want to do that and for like half the price of a Garmin Fenix 8, right? So, I think that it's a smart business move. I think it makes sense. Uh it won't be for everyone. It's

sense. Uh it won't be for everyone. It's

going to be a certain population that's going to be like still upset about this but I think from a business standpoint this makes the most sense.

>> I'm, a, huge, fan, of, the, fact, that, they added the LED flashlight as well as the AMOLED display, but you know, that's that's again that's just a me thing. Uh

you know, uh there's still definitely use cases for memory and pixel out there. So, the one thing I wasn't

there. So, the one thing I wasn't necessarily a fan of on this watch though is that they kept with the three button interface that they've had for years, but they didn't actually add the rotating dial that they have on the Race

2. And here's the thing, I'm I'm

2. And here's the thing, I'm I'm certainly all for buttons over dials for the most part. But only having three buttons here, it limits how you actually use the watch. Where the back button

behavior, there's no dedicated back button on here now where to use the back behavior, you either have to long press the middle button right here or you have to swipe right on the screen where the

dial on the race 2 as well as their even their run over there. It allows them to have a dedicated back button which makes the watch using the watch a little bit easier. So that was the one thing I

easier. So that was the one thing I wasn't necessarily a fan of of this watch. But other than that, I think it

watch. But other than that, I think it was I think it was a good unit. And they

actually um they lowered the priceish a little bit on the um on the titanium version of it. All right. So, next up we have the Garmin Venue 4. And this

watch was crazy because they basically added all the 570 features into their Venue lineup. Again, they're like

Venue lineup. Again, they're like they're kind of like mixing up the the um the Venue lineup quite a bit here.

So, but again, like in terms of like feature parody, very much the same as the 570, just basically have a two-b button interface as well as a touchcreen. But they kind of like missed

touchcreen. But they kind of like missed the three buttons on the other side here. And terms of like what they packed

here. And terms of like what they packed in this watch in terms of the differences between the four and the five. Crazy amount of difference here.

five. Crazy amount of difference here.

>> Well,, yeah,, cuz, in, this, case,, you, got the flashlight there. You've got ECD still on the back, but not on the five.

This is where it's so confusing, right?

Cuz you sit there and go like, they added the flashlight, right? A

flashlight there, but not on the 570 where arguably people would want it more if you're outdoorsy. I don't I don't get that. And then ECG, I do understand why

that. And then ECG, I do understand why they have it here, cuz they had it in the past, of course. And um no, the venue the venue actually was the the introduction of the ECG feature >> 100%., Um, so, but, the, price, increase, I

>> 100%., Um, so, but, the, price, increase, I think was probably the thing people talked about the most here. I mean

Garmin has always tried to theoretically anyways compete the Venue series against the Apple Watch um you know, series watches as opposed to the Ultra, the SE but those that mid-range there um

against Samsung, against Google and this one, they're just like, nah, we're just we're just uh going our own now. Um at

549 right?

>> It, makes, the, decision, so, confusing between a 570 and this watch. And you

can't have it all, unfortunately. And

where the 570 you have like the five button interface but with this you have to use the touchcreen but this you get the flashlight as well as ECG. It's it

makes it so tough for consumers. Um I

really like this watch quite a bit but again it's just like it's it's confusing lineup overall. I'd love to sit down and

lineup overall. I'd love to sit down and understand what what they want the consumer to do there, right? What is

their preferred thing like in their best case scenario? Do they want someone to

case scenario? Do they want someone to look at this and go they want them to buy this or they want them to buy this or they want them to give up and buy the Venue 3 from last year or they want them to I assume they'd love you to buy the

970, but, no, one's, going to, buy, the, 970 that's starting off looking at a $400 Venue 3. Like what is the matrix that

Venue 3. Like what is the matrix that gets them to their cheese, right? You

know what, I, mean?, Like, I, don't understand that. Like I can describe the

understand that. Like I can describe the matrix in an Apple Watch buyer where Apple's like, "Hey, you start off thinking you want the SC and then you got to go there so you want this cuz you want this feature." I don't get the

cheese map here. I don't I can't do it.

Like I can understand other cheese maps right?

>> Mhm.

>> But, I, can't, figure, this, one, out.

>> No,, this, one's, this, one's, a, strange, one.

I think this watch makes more sense than the 570 overall, but it did come way later in the year, too. So, I don't know. It's like you know you get I don't

know. It's like you know you get I don't say trickle down technology but you you will get more features obviously the the later the product comes out home stretch now so we have two watches and >> the, first, time, we've, ever, reviewed

sunglass will I think so yeah but anyways yeah so these are the Oakley Vanguards and in terms of surprise of the year this would definitely get that award from me so in terms of the Oakley uh Meta Vanguard so these are basically

the sports focus versions of all the RayBan metas that have been out before that but this brought a centered camera a wider field of view, a wraparound lens, better water resistance, as well

as better speakers, and you know, in terms of like AI glasses, I've I've never been interested in the AI features of any of these glasses. However, I've

been really interested in the camera features, and I bought the pair of the Oakley Meta Housins, the I guess fashionoriented ones basically, but I

just those I just really struggled with those for a few reasons. And I think it was almost like I think the primary reason probably was the camera being like off to the left a little bit where that was just like kind of weird when

you actually took footage. But these

actually have that centered camera now.

But these also came with Garmin integration which was like really really fascinating where you could actually sync your Garmin activities over and then overlay your footage onto the clips that you took during your activity. But

the other feature is that you could actually get like live data that you could ask meta for Yeah. during an

activity. And I think it was a cool integration. The biggest piece of

integration. The biggest piece of feedback that I think probably both of us heard on our reviews was that there was no heads-up display on these >> which, for, me,, I, understand, that, it, would have been cool was something like that.

But I think the practicality of a heads-up display on glasses, that's questionable. Technologically speaking

questionable. Technologically speaking it's very challenging. I've tested many many attempts at heads-up displays on glasses, and I would say almost all of them suck. The closest that comes to not

them suck. The closest that comes to not sucking is a form swim goggle. And that

doesn't suck because it's very hyper specific, you know, way it works. And

even then, the heads-up display is still kind of wonky at times. But putting

heads-up displays inside glasses is just really, really challenging. Right now

it has been for the last 10 years. And

so, this threads a needle providing all the things that you want. Um, like the camera integration is amazing. This

replaces a GoPro on many of my rides and runs. And then, you know, the the

runs. And then, you know, the the speaker integration is incredible. The

mic integration is very well done. and

then the overlay back into the app um on top of your Garmin data and that integration is super well done. This is

one of my favorite products of the year.

Um I think they just did an amazing job on this and really really stuck the landing on this one.

>> I, think, the, other, practicality, reason behind an heads-up display not being usable in something like this is that as a cyclist I personally do not want anything interfering with my vision whatsoever. And the fact that, you know

whatsoever. And the fact that, you know putting a heads-up display in here would have made these heavier. And these are like these are heavier than normal sunglasses. And I think making them any

sunglasses. And I think making them any heavier would have not been like super super ideal.

>> They, didn't, bother, me, though., I, think the weight wise didn't bother me.

>> No,, they, didn't., But, they're, not, they're noticeable.

>> They're, noticeable,, but, they, don't bounce on your face when you're running which, is, key,, right?, Cuz, a, lot, of the ones I've tried over the years have bounced and that's just a dealer for me out of the gate.

>> So, the, last, two, we're, going, to, talk about are the Chorus Apex 4 right here.

And again in terms of interest interesting decisions. So with the Apex

interesting decisions. So with the Apex 4 again I think that all of us kind of expected an AMOLED watch out of Chorus at least, for, this, new, upgrade, from, the Apex but they went with memory and Pixel

here. So and again it really just comes

here. So and again it really just comes down to battery life. But the other upgrade they put in here is a speaker and microphone. So this is the first

and microphone. So this is the first Chorus watch that you can actually take a call on the watch itself. It doesn't

have cellular capabilities on the watch itself but if your phone's nearby you can actually do that with this watch.

No, it's a it's a solid uh solid. I'm

surprised they stuck with MYIP, but at the same time, I think they might be trying to carve out a little bit portion of the market where everyone else has abandoned MYIP.

>> Uh, so, it, might, make, sense.

>> I'd, be, super, fascinated, to, understand the sales numbers on Apex 4 though compared to actually the next watch that we'll talk about here is the Paceore.

And this one I think they I think they kind of knocked it out of the park on this one. So big thing that they did

this one. So big thing that they did with the Pace Sport is that they did actually put an AMOLED display on this watch and it's still kept with that super small form factor. It's still kept

with a really low price. It did increase by $20, but no big deal really. I mean

it's still one of the best budget sports watches that you can really get on the market.

>> Great, little, watch., Cororus, continues, to knock it out of the park with their pace lineup. Um, and this is just another

lineup. Um, and this is just another example that uh especially when there's not sales. So, when there's sales, as we

not sales. So, when there's sales, as we talked about in the podcast, it gets a little bit messy um in terms of competitor sales in this device. But I

think, you know, normal times of the year, January, February, like this is it's a great little unit.

>> That, kind, of, brings, us, to, like, the, whole like landscape of sports watches this year and what exactly happened. So, I

think price was a big topic of discussion this year on both the high end as well as the low end in terms of like some companies keeping with right around the same prices where some other companies like increasing prices quite a

bit. And I think that's really going to

bit. And I think that's really going to translate into next year uh as well.

>> Yeah,, I'm, I'm, keen, to, see, what's, going to happen. I think a couple things

to happen. I think a couple things technologically trendwise, I think we're going to see, especially in Garmin's case, probably more LTE and satellite integration across the board. I wouldn't

be surprised to see other players play around with satellite as well, right? I

think, you know, the the chipsets are available, the NTN chipsets are available for these companies to do that. So, it's not something they're

that. So, it's not something they're really locked into, right? So the fact that Google and Apple and Garmin all did in the same time frame means that a company like Choros and others could do it on their higherend units if they

wanted to. Those chipsets are freely

wanted to. Those chipsets are freely available. It's not like uh NFC payments

available. It's not like uh NFC payments where you have to tie the payment processors or you know downloading a Spotify which is tied to Spotify agreeing to it. There's those gates that exist there. Those gates don't really

exist there. Those gates don't really exist on the satellite side. You will

have to though likely partner with a emergency response center if you want to do that which we saw Google do, right?

Google used Garmin's emergency response center and Garmin has said very clearly they want to be that third-party processor if you will for a company. So

there is a day potentially where you could see Chorus using satellite connectivity to a Garmin emergency response center. Maybe not. We'll find

response center. Maybe not. We'll find

out. Uh but I think we'll see that kind of, stuff, over, the, course, of the, next year. I'm keen to see um what you know

year. I'm keen to see um what you know Polar in particular can do on their loop if they can salvage that ship from a software standpoint. Primarily the

software standpoint. Primarily the hardware is fine. software is that they need to focus on. Um, and I'm keen to see whether Garmin will jump into that that camp as well.

>> You, know, what, I, want, to, see?, I, want, to see more flashlights. That's that's

>> that's, 100% >> simple, as, that., Simple, as, that., So,

>> and, I, want, to, see, lower, prices.

>> Oh,, yeah.

>> I, am, interested, to, see, if, we, will, see some price adjustments from Garmin.

Like, will we see some of these holiday prices?, So,, one, of the, trends, that

prices?, So,, one, of the, trends, that Garmin will often do is they'll put things on sale for the holidays, but sometimes they keep those new prices once they get into January as the new

price. And I'm very keen to see if that

price. And I'm very keen to see if that happens going into January for some of these devices to to readjust things a little bit here.

>> Yep., Totally., So,, anyways,, uh, that, is our 2025 sports watch year in review.

And if you like the video or found the information in this video to be useful feel free to hit that like button down below. Please uh go ahead and check out

below. Please uh go ahead and check out our podcast as well uh where we're going to have a lot of follow-up content over there. And I guess we will just see you

there. And I guess we will just see you next year.

>> Yep., Sounds, good., Appreciate, it.