68 - The Museum of Games Ireland

the name of the show. And uh welcome

back me. I'm Jason. Oh, we're the

partners of Carian Games. I'm Jason.

>> I'm Peter.

>> And we have a special guest this week.

>> Hello, Col.

>> Hi, I'm Colum, guys. I'm the director of

the Museum of Games in Ireland. And it's

uh currently 1:00 a.m. here. So, but I'm

still alive.

>> And that's all my fault. I don't

understand time zones at all. I'm like,

"Oh, it's fine. It's only a couple

hours." No, it's like five hours. So,

>> we're really grateful.

>> Funny.

>> All right. stories this week. Gyax

Memorial hits its funding goal. Yeah, we

did that. That was all us. That was

>> It was all us. We had Paul one. That was

it.

>> I was kind of looking at the I was so

tempted. I was looking at, my god, it

would be great to get the the museum's

name in a brick there. And then I was

kind of going, "Yeah, but like how much

money have I spent in the last week,

>> right? Let's not do that."

>> Uh, let's see. 1977 DND Holmes Boach

figures. Something we're going to say

about them. Uh, tariffs strike again. Oh

my god, the story again. Uh,

Drive-Through RPG is selling off Whoa.

selling real offset printing, not just

the crappy drive. Oh, what do you know?

>> I knew you would like that one.

>> I love that. Uh, Beacon Island

Kickstarter and super important, the

Golden Fez Awards nominations are open.

So, we will be talking a lot about that.

Um, maybe we should even talk about that

at the beginning. Uh, and then our guest

of honor tonight, of course, uh, is

called to talk about the Museum of Games

Ireland, which I'm representing here as

well, and that's going to be our big

discussion tonight. So, anybody in the

chat, if you want to know what that is

or have questions, throw them at us.

Let's start off with Let's start off

with the Golden Feds. How about that?

>> All right. Well, hold on. Let me let me

get

>> I'm messing with your order, but I want

to make sure that people are on top of

this one. Okay.

Okay. Uh Brian in the chat says that my

volume is low.

>> I I turned it up. I turned it up.

>> Okay. All right. So, I'm not going to

shout. You don't even I turned it up.

You should be should be good. Brian, let

us know.

>> Okay. Yeah. Tell us if it's not. All

right. So, uh this is going to be the

second annual Golden Fez James Carpio

Memorial Awards. Uh so as most people

know um our third partner in Carian

Games, James Karpio sadly passed away a

little over a year ago

and uh in his honor as anybody who knew

James uh knew one of the things he's

most well known for was his fee. And so

we've named the awards the Golden Fez in

his honor. Uh the first uh annual Golden

Fez was I guess we couldn't call it the

first annual at the time because you

can't do that. That's cheating. Uh but

the first ones were held last year and

uh if you go to goldenfs.com you can see

all the winners. Uh we'll talk about

them a little bit but what I want to get

out right off the bat is nominations are

open right now. So um we have got a

number of categories and the big winner

last year the uh game of the year award

was outgunned which we still love. Yeah.

Have you played that yet, Colin?

>> I haven't. No, I've seen it played

though. I've kind of observed it. It

looks looks a lot of fun. Like a lot of

fun.

>> Yeah. Very cinematic.

>> Um, some of the other awards we have

included the holy hand grenade award for

the best new game mechanic.

Uh, the pick up and play award for the

easiest game to learn. That was won by

Eat the Reich. Uh, last year the holy

hand grenade was won by burn 2d6,

local Connecticut game here. Um, the

Velvet Smooth Award for best design and

production was Triangle Agency.

The Forge of Destiny Award for the best

world building was won by Ultraviolet

Grasslands 2E. Uh, last year, the Hack

the Planet Award for the most unexpected

idea was won by Microscope.

And finally, the last award from last

year was the bucket of blood award for

the best combat rules. And that was won

by Kill Him Faster appropriately.

>> They are the coolest name for their

awards I've ever heard. And it gave me

fantastic.

>> That was that was our plan. We we were

like, we're not we're not doing what

every other award show did or has done.

And one of the other facets of that is

there's no guarantee that those names

will stick. We can change them. We can

may not even be the same awards this

year. So, so far we're sticking with

them.

>> So far, so far, I'm just saying there's

no guarantee.

>> We're just going to stick with them

because time is short. We don't want to

We might change them up for 2027. But

>> the awards are going to be held at Total

Con and that's in Boston on February 20

Well,

>> it's for several days, but we're going

to be holding them on Saturday night at

February 21st. And um so anybody who

either has a game that you've created or

if you want to nominate somebody else's

game, go to goldenf.com

and you'll see a submission form in the

main menu at the top. Just click on

that. All you have to do is put in your

name, the name of the game, who

publishes it. Um please give us your

email address so that we can get in

touch. Um and you can say which category

you recommend the game be considered

for. We may look at it and say it

belongs in a different one, but it helps

us to know.

And unlike award shows like the Annies

where they make you send physical copies

to

oh my gosh, what eight people,

>> something like that, all the judges.

>> We don't do that. A PDF is fine. Um,

you're welcome to send us physical

copies. It will not make the game more

likely to win unless there's something

in there that you just really think we

need to see physically. like please look

at this. It's super cool.

>> But generally, you know, we can we can

look at photos. We get it.

>> And um

>> do that by December 31st because the

judging is going to happen in January

and the awards are going to be given in

February. So, um I don't know. That's I

That's pretty good, right? That's

>> Yeah, that's it.

>> Absolutely. Sounds great.

>> Yeah, it's a good time. And we do Oh, we

we do and I I made arrangements to make

this smoother. We'll see how it goes,

but it should be better. Uh, we do

stream it live. Last year, the live

stream didn't go so well, but I uh I

made I've got uh I got a better Wi-Fi we

can connect into and everything. So, I I

think we should be good this year.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Should be good. Should be

good. Um I don't know Colin have you

been to the NES awards or any other

>> Yeah I I went to Jan Con about um wow

about nine years ago now for Green Ronin

where we're publishing a game I had

created called Love to Hate which is out

of print now and the expansion is out of

print as well. It's kind of um

>> that's you you're the writer.

>> Yeah, I'm the designer for that game.

Yeah. Yeah. Um and I play tested it for

years before it kind of went out there

and I kind of sent it over to a few

people saying hey what do you think of

this? looking for feedback and uh Chris

and Green Ronian said yeah we'll take it

no I'm not pitching it dude I just want

to know like what do you think that no

no we'll take it okay that that's great

so what we don't you know what do you

want what do you think you should have

in the contract I'm going I have no idea

so I kind of rang around some friends

going um what do I put in the contract

guys but yeah so it's kind of a it's a

it's a sentence finishing game

>> um game for so it's kind of I love the

way you get you get like a noun like

clowns or teachers or whatever and I

love the way or I hate the way and then

everyone's got

Um, I have to say it was it was designed

kind of before I was aware of Cars

Against Humanity, but obviously that's

kind of that's, you know, it's kind of,

but I I I I spent a lot of time making

sure it wasn't kind of um triggering or

kind of, you know, or or

>> offensive in the way that Cards Against

Humanity can sometimes be to some

people. So, it kind of coasts that line

where, you know, families can play it. I

I have a couple of friends who when we

when Cards Against Humanity first came

out, their children were six and eight,

respectively, and they decided to play

it with the kids.

>> Oh,

>> it was an interesting night. It was

>> I'd say

>> it was a lot more embarrassing for me

than them, I think.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, but

this does kind of coast the line, you

know, at inappropriate, but not, you

know, some of But yeah, so that's the

first time Gen Con. I've been back three

times since. um kind of went to every al

alternate year kind of thing. Four times

actually. Um uh just hanging around and

being a punter and kind of um you know

um meeting some people and

>> having imposter syndrome and getting

some writing contracts for RPGs going

how the hell did that happen? And yeah

and um yeah being being around people

who I kind of used to well I still

admire but I used to kind of admire from

afar going oh you're that guy whose game

books I have at home you know and now

I'm here having a chat with you. One of

the nicest moments was um spending some

time with Joe Dver who obviously passed

away a few years ago. The lone wolf, the

adventure of the lone wolf kind of um he

was there launching the RPG version of

the game books um a few years back

>> and I'd interviewed him the previous

year on a radio show I had at a

Gamescom. So lovely to actually meet him

and spend some time in them um before he

passed away. That was a really kind of

nice time, you know.

>> Yeah, that's the thing about

conventions. It's just it it it's this

microcosm where you suddenly feel like

more part of a community than any other

part of the year.

>> Yeah.

>> You're part of a community all year

round, but when you're at the

conventions, it's just this

>> special moment. And of course, then the

last day you always are just like, how

do I how do I keep this feeling going

for the rest of

>> Yeah. Do it is just go to more and more

conventions.

>> Absolutely. But it's a small industry as

well. So once you kind of start knowing

people, you know, as long as you're not

not a um a-hole, I'm not sure whether

you can curse in the this thing or not.

>> You can curse curse if you want.

>> Okay. As long as you're not a [ __ ]

um you know, uh people are kind of, you

know,

>> accessible and kind of nice and kind of

welcome you in for the most part, which

is really, you know, I don't think you

get that in many industries really.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But sadly, I'm not going back to not

going back to the States for the next,

let's say, the next couple of years

because they got a strange surname and

you know,

>> I hear you.

>> Yeah. Yeah,

>> but I mean that's the thing. I I moved

here to the east coast from California.

And the East Coast is a much more

tightly packed area. The conventions are

more tightly packed. The community is

more tightly packed. And I didn't

realize how much I'd missed that because

being out in California, you just don't

get that same sort of feeling. And here,

each convention you go to, you seem see

the same cast of characters. You see the

usual suspects.

>> Um you you get your con friends, you

know,

>> out of there. Um, and it seemed the same

sort of way. Uh, this so, so, uh,

anybody who's watching knows I was off

last week because I was over at Gailcon

and my first convention in Ireland, but

I got the impression that it was the

same sort of thing, like a a tight-knit

scene that you're going to see the same

people from K to

>> For sure. For sure. Yeah. I mean there's

it's one thing Ireland is kind of a

strange like you have a lot of people

obviously living in in in outside Dublin

outside urban populated areas like in in

rural areas where there's no kind of

convention scene or there's no kind of

point at which gamers can gather like

Kani where I lived and Kerry in the

southwest was like that for a number of

years um but then the game store opened

and suddenly there were 40 to 60 gamers

in the store in the weekend going where

the hell were you guys for the last 10

years when I moved down here like you

know what I mean but uh you know so

there's pockets of gamers around there

who aren't affiliated iated or aren't

kind of attending conventions or don't

have that kind of single point of of of

group attendance. But um you know and

the challenge I think for any convention

is trying to reach out to those people

and bring them in. But you're but you're

right the con scene is kind of it's a

it's very much a tight-knit family with

all the all the joys and foiblesss that

come with that kind of arrangement, you

know.

>> And one of the things that that's kind

of wild is that uh there's this new

convention that started. It's only I

think this is the third year. to page um

which is in Philadelphia which is about

>> Philadelphia area gaming convention or

expo expo that's what E stands for.

>> It's about it's about an hour north of

me so it's finally a convention in my

backyard.

>> Sure.

>> Uh cuz I travel to most of mine. Um but

then if I go up to uh you know up to

Total Con or Rising Phoenix which is two

other conventions we we attend every

year uh those are about six hour drive

for me. But it's it's still a lot of the

same people, you know, like um and and

Jason, when you came down to Baltimore,

um again, we still ran into a bunch of

the same people. So, yeah, it's like

it's it's like this this East Coast

Northeast Coast family.

>> Well, we we'll put this to the test

because I'm going to be coming back for

Leprechaun in March. Cool. And going to

be dragging Peter along if I can make it

happen.

>> If I if we can make it happen, I'll

come.

>> So,

>> there's another one one between that.

There's a con in January, the end of

January called Warp Con and Cork. Um,

Cork's beautiful city and it's got I've

discovered I mean there's some amazing

foodie places in Cork. So, it's the end

of January in Cork EC. I think John

Catholic is the guest of honor this

year.

>> I don't think I can swing that one.

>> It's too close.

>> It's only down the road.

>> F Venture.

>> Say again.

>> Isn't there F Venture Con?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so there's a lot of kind

of um um I don't want to call them

smaller, but a lot of kind of new cons

that have popped up in the last couple

years. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, a lot

of kind of which is great to see. It's

great to see local games kind of um

getting involved and you know we've had

a phenomenon here where a lot of games

cafes have opened.

>> Um so people have a center point and

from them conventions like I've had

people kind of come to me saying hey I

want to organize a convention what do I

do? Of course the first response is

don't or even

but if you're determined here you go you

know um so it's it's nice to see them

kind of popping up. There's a lot of

them now I think which is great. We're

going to be doing our first one uh in

May at the end of May, but luckily we're

doing it with the folks from TotalCon,

so they can teach us what to do, right?

But I I thought it was Eth Venture Con.

What's the name of the city or town that

it's in?

>> Although, I think

>> there you go. That's why it's called

that.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But I I think it was them. I heard a

bunch of good ideas uh coming from

people and uh Oh, shoot. There was ones

that I was just like, we need to steal

these ideas and I've forgotten what all

of them were now. But

>> but ever

>> Yeah. But but there was a really good

pub quiz at this one. And Peter So we

have a game that's not been released yet

by Cararian that Peter runs at different

conventions. Uh which used to be called

Cube of Death and is now called Tis

Butter Scratch. Um which is sort of a

pub quiz, but by answering the

questions, you get to kill monsters in a

dungeon crawl. Oh, cool. Oh, cool. I

will be running some of that stuff. I

just

>> It's a It's an RPG and and your your

encounters all of your encounters are

not solved with dice. They're solved

with answering trivia questions.

>> That's really cool. I can correct

myself. Adventure. I think of a

different con. Adventure Con is based in

Lock Ray and Galway. Um, so it's kind of

>> now the name makes no sense at all.

>> Well, I mean, I guess I guess it might

be close to Athenry or maybe they're

from Athenry. H, you know, the log maybe

after that's where the AFCO, but it's in

Lock Ray. Um, uh, yeah, it's beautiful.

I mean, Gway is stunning. G is anywhere

on the West Coast.

>> Famous Gway is famous for being

beautiful.

>> And it's a great city. It's a great

city.

>> Well, that'll be on on my on my list.

All right. I'm I'm hogging all the time

for for Golden Fez. So, I'm just going

to remind people again, please, Golden

Fez.com. So easy to remember. Go there,

nominate your favorite game, nominate

your own game, give us some nominations.

We want to find the best for the year.

>> Yep.

All right. Oh, and sorry, chat in the

chat in the chat. Chat in the chat. It

says May, which con is this. At the end

of May, um, we're going to be doing a

one-day convention in Northampton called

ModCon. We haven't really started

pushing it yet, but you can go to

modcon.game

and register to run some games. And

chat, we'll talk about it.

>> Yeah.

What do we got? What's next?

>> Uh, Gyigax Memorial hits its funding

goal. Oh, heck yeah. All right.

>> Yeah.

>> So, first of all, when did you get that

screenshot? That's a big number.

>> Uh, that's it. That's the final number.

>> Oh, that's the final

>> I just I grabbed it tonight.

>> So, we're worried about this one.

>> Uh, Colin, how much do you know about

the background on this one?

>> Not a huge amount. I I saw the

Kickstarter and kind of went into it.

I've I've met um um Luke a few times,

but um this is the first time and I have

to say I was tempted to just get one of

the museum bricks, but um my credit card

is currently in exile or or in fear or

hiding somewhere after the museum

expenses, so it didn't happen. But in

terms of the the real politic around it

and kind of the the the where the idea

came from, I I'm I'm not I'm not up to

speed on that.

>> Oh, well, first of all, there definitely

will be an opportunity to get a brick in

uh still because this is sort of the

start of a journey. Um although it in

some ways we're at the midpoint of a

journey. I don't know where we are in

the journey

>> but um so Luke is not involved with this

particular uh venture.

>> It's this goes all the way back to 2009.

The whole idea began right after Gary

passed and it was originally spearheaded

by Gary's second wife and widow

>> and it had a lot of controversy around

it because she was given help by Wizards

of the Coast. They put out a special set

of Well, you know about it. They did a

special set of uh first edition books

specifically to help this and

>> Okay, that's what I knew it was for

something. I didn't actually know what

it was for. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And people were keeping tabs on

the money. They were watching the funds

go up and up and up and getting up to

close to a quarter million dollars. And

they said, "Great, where's the

memorial?" And for years, there was

nothing. And there was poor

communication. And so that leads to

conspiracy theories and people saying

that she'd stolen all the money and ran

off to Tahiti or who knows what, right?

Or used it all to sue me or whatever it

was. Um, I still don't know who paid for

her legal bills, but I know I paid. But

that's another story. Uh but eventually

the truth all came out because Paul

Storberg who is a longtime fixture in

the uh community and the industry who

has been known for helping a lot of the

folks from the first wave uh liquidate

their estates and really kind of get

their pensions so to speak for all the

work that they had done. Uh stepped in

and took over to get this thing run by

adults. and he gave us the uh the

background which was first of all that

the Wizards of the Coast money was

minuscule. All they did was give a 10%

royalty on profits which only came out

to about $18,000.

So almost nothing.

>> Um which honestly was less than Gary

would have gotten as royalties if he'd

been alive,

>> right?

Uh anyway, the apparently most of the

money came from one large donor who put

in something like $175,000

and then took it away again when they

felt that it wasn't going to succeed.

And so they ended up basically back at

zero and they said, "How are we going to

move with this?" Paul came in, came up

with a way better idea for what the

memorial would be. Years of their work

paid off in finding a place to do it.

And now they've actually raised enough

money to do the first stage. So, this

Kickstarter had multiple stages. The

first stage was just getting the marble

or whatever it is, uh, bench put in

place. And they're going to need more

money if they want to actually put

>> the statue of Gary on a throne and the

map and everything else.

>> Yeah. This is where they needed to get

the to get the ball rolling,

>> right? This pays for your your concrete

slab, the table, and the chairs. like

even the metal top, it that's not paid

for yet. So, that's going to be some

secondary or t tertiary uh fundraising

uh type thing that they're going to have

to do if they want all that stuff.

>> The you know, the bottom line is they

don't really need everything. So,

they've got

>> what they're going to, you know, they

got the minimal thing, but I I tend to

think that once you get the ball rolling

on something like this, things start to

fall into place. I guess momentum once

you start Yeah. Once you get momentum,

they'll somebody will jump in and throw

in, you know, somebody nerd,

>> one of us nerds,

>> person with 175,000. Maybe that's what

I'm saying. Like some some one of us

nerds who made it and became very rich

or whatever will go, "Oh, here you go.

I'll write you a check." Now, now that

they see that it's serious. So, we'll

see.

>> It's a great idea. Great idea. The

memorial itself is a great idea. Like,

and the the what it is, what they've

chosen for it is is fantastic. I think

>> it's amazing for people to actually sit

down and play with Gary.

>> Absolutely. What a great idea.

>> It's like any venture, you know, when

you're starting a new venture, nobody

wants to know you.

>> Yeah.

>> And then when you start showing some

success, everybody was there all along.

>> Of course. Of course.

>> So, yeah, I agree with you, Peter. I

think they're going to see uh they're

going to have a lot more success

fundraising for the rest of it. I don't

know if they're ever going to make it

all the way to having the brass map on

the top. That's that's a huge stretch.

They're getting close to a million

dollars to get there. But who knows?

Honestly, I think Hasbro should just

kick down. Come on.

>> Yeah, Hasbro should jump in. Absolutely.

>> They really should. They really if they

wanted really uh powerful connection

with their community, that would be I

mean like they've made a lot of missteps

over the years. Uh that doing this would

be like the opposite of that. This would

be a step up. People start drift.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Unfortunately, Peter Atinson's not

in charge over Wizards anymore because

if he was, I mean, he always had a huge

uh affinity for the the the community

and the history. And he did so much for

the creators when he took over.

>> He did.

>> So, if he was still telling Wizards and

Hasbro where to send their money, I'm

sure they would.

>> But,

>> uh, l good for him that he's gotten out

of the out of that whole thing. So,

>> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

So anyways, congratulations, Paul.

Congratulations to the whole community.

At least we're on our way to getting a

memorial that all of us deserve.

>> Yeah,

>> agreed. You're here. Absolutely.

>> All right. Well, this next one's pretty

quick. I I'll run this one. Um this I

just saw this and I and I thought, man,

I I got to talk about this one. So, um

there's this company called uh Sirius

Metal Miniatures. Um, and they have made

or are making they're about to release

these. These are uh actual metal

miniatures. Uh, you guys were talking

about this before before the show

talking about metal managers. Now,

they're not lead of course for obvious

reasons, but they do have that solid

metal feel. And they are

>> get my delicious delicious snacks.

They are the figures from the front of

the box from from the top of the uh the

David Sutherland's art from the um Homes

box set.

>> Um and you can see them here. I got them

up. If you're watching this, you can see

them. If you're listening on the

podcast, just trust me. They look

>> so good.

>> Yeah, they are. They really do.

>> They really Because here's the thing is

that

>> uh Sutherland's art is not classically

brilliant, right? He's not somebody

who's got amazing technical skill at

like an Elmore level. What he's got is

soul.

>> Yeah.

>> You know,

>> and miniatures, it's very hard to

capture that kind of a

nuance in miniatures. And whoever is the

sculptor here has done it.

>> Yeah, they did it. They got it. Look,

look at the dragon's head. You know,

it's absolutely perfect.

>> Almost perfect. Yeah. He's a He's a

gamer who who who draws rather than an

artist who doing something for a game

book. Mhm. Yes,

>> I've got that feel. But no, they are

fantastic minis.

>> So, here's here's uh So, so

>> I'm going to I'm going to go get my

wormy miniatures to show, you know.

>> Okay, go ahead. Yeah. So, the these are

it's $50 for the set, and like I said,

it's coming soon. They're not they're

not quite ready. They're they're listed

on the site, but you can't order them

just yet.

>> Um

>> it's a good price point.

>> What What I like this next line is my

favorite line of the whole thing. It's

the first release,

so there's gonna be more. So, I I'm

assuming they're, you know, I want to

see the the whatever it is, that demon

holding the bowl and the guy climb up on

his head trying to pop the eye out.

>> Look at the detail that the wizard's

gloat though. I mean, you get all the

the stars and the cresants and all that

kind of Yeah, look at that.

>> It's amazing. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

>> And then, um,

>> I'm going to bring up in in the sense of

this. So, um,

>> hold on. I'm going to let me maximize

you.

>> Oh, that's okay. So, so in the sense of

in the tradition of great artists

getting their stuff turned into

miniatures, here's some of the wormy

miniature that were recently done.

>> Um, so we have all of the characters.

>> That is cool.

>> And even even the imp.

>> Hey, Jason, did you paint those?

>> No. My god. I was going to say good job.

I was going to say good job. Yeah,

>> I could pretend I did. Well, I paid for

them to be painted.

You're involved in the process. You're

involved in the process.

>> Yeah. It's like it's it's it's like the

joke about, you know, Well, never mind.

Um right.

>> I just I don't know how far from PG-13 I

want to go.

>> Anyway, uh, but I do have another set

that are unpainted, which I might get to

sometime, but it's I I my point is it's

so exciting when uh the great art gets

turned into minis. There was another um

miniature company that did Elmore's uh

bunch of Elmore's paintings. I don't

remember who did those, but it would be

fun to start collecting all of these.

>> Make a great display for anybody who's

collecting their first edition stuff.

It'd be a beautiful way to have a

display.

>> And it does, one last note, uh it does

come in premium collector's packaging,

suitable for display.

I I I I don't know about I don't know

about anybody else here, but I I find uh

displayworthy packaging to be

oppressive. I don't know what to do with

it.

>> I don't I don't want to throw it out

because it's so nice, but I'm not going

to stick boxes on my shelves.

>> Right. Right. Right. You know.

>> Yeah. Minis take up less space.

>> Yeah. Exactly. You know, this would be

We'll talk about the museum soon, but

this is this would be a cool um addition

to a display.

>> For sure. Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm

really happy that they went metal as

well, kind of hearkening back to the

olden days. Yeah, they a lot of thought

went into this. I love it. Absolutely.

Is it really so bad to have lead

miniatures? I mean, lead's only

dangerous if you ingest it.

>> Yeah, it's it's not it's over. You know

what it is? You know what it it's that

fear mongering that people like like

when we were growing up in the 80s,

right? You know, go outside and play.

See you later. Don't show up until the

lights come on, right? Nowadays,

everybody's like,

>> you know, there'll be a handrail and

then a sign, you know, handrail at a

cliff wall and a sign saying, "Do not

climb over the rail." Like, really?

Like, I mean, like,

>> well, I mean, I've just been getting

back into more um repairing a lot of my

vintage computers, so I have to get a

lot of soldering done.

>> And so, you know, the lead solder

solder, so I use it. And so, I I join a

bunch of

>> communities online of people that are

doing the soldering. And the first

question every newbie has is, "Am I

going to die because it's lead?"

>> I mean, eventually, yeah,

>> at some point in time, sure, but you

know,

>> eventually. They're like, "Just don't

eat the solder.

>> Don't eat the miniatures. Don't eat the

miniatures." That's all.

>> But, you know, somebody's going to try,

right? Just to prove a point.

>> Here's here. But, but my point is is

Okay, that's fine.

>> Please. Natural selection.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Natural. Go ahead. Eat away.

>> It's too many people as it is. World's a

little crowded as it is.

>> God damn it.

>> There's a housing crisis. Eat some lead.

>> Right.

>> Quote for today. There's a housing

crisis. Eat some lead.

>> Let's move on.

>> So the next story, here we go again.

>> Terrace.

All right. So Magpie Games um has um

they've canceled their Kickstarter

campaign. So, they started they had a

Kickstarter campaign. They had these

three games as part of the Kickstarter

campaign. Uh, as they got into it, they

realized with the situations that are

going on that there's no way they could

continue um to make the game with where

the Kickstarter was. So, they canceled

it. Um,

they had been they were at about $50,000

and they it still wasn't they figured

they weren't going to get to where they

needed to be. Um, so they stated that uh

see Uh, okay. So, I already said that.

Uh, anyways, it was for card card-based

deluxe box format required specialized

printing and production cap capabilities

of overseas factories p particularly in

China. And we've talked about that on

this show before that the print quality

is just not here in the United States

because of things that have happened.

>> We don't have the equipment. We don't

have the machinery. We don't people that

are trained to use it.

>> We don't have the right people that are

Yeah. We don't have people properly

trained to use those things. Anyway,

blah blah. It's a whole thing. Um, you

know, hopefully we'll get that back at

some point, but it is it isn't now.

Let's put it that way.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, so they said that

>> this is Colin, this is something you

don't have to live with.

>> No, you don't have to deal with this.

>> I mean, it it does affect us though in

so far as you know, as a games designer,

like I mean, I've seen games companies

kind of struggling really struggling.

>> Well, because if you want to sell here,

>> right? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Absolutely. It's the same. It's, you

know, and our industries are getting

getting affected. Look, it's it's a

global impact. Um, but the games

industry, you know, exists on such a

narrow margin,

>> you know, that this really puts people

>> who are already under kind of under

pressure, under serious kind of strain,

you know, and it's it's it's sad to see

the impact.

>> Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is.

>> So, I look forward to the day that we

all forget what this word means.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely.

>> Let's let's keep moving.

>> Yeah.

Okay, that's that's really all there is

to say about that. They just had to

cancel it because the terrace was just

too much.

>> Let's go to something really positive

like drive-thru RPG.

>> Yeah, this is cool. All right, so this

>> look at that. Oh, that picture. It makes

me so happy.

>> I picked that picture out. But anyway,

>> I've I love that you did this. I mean,

I'm I'm too young to have been part of

the real print era, you know, when there

were um everything was done by hand and

you were doing paste up and you went did

all of that. I I I got into print right

at the tail end, you know. So, I was

>> old enough to have gone to a service

bureau and had to get the the films made

to make the plates. I'm old enough to

have gone on press checks. I I remember

the smell of the machinery and I just

the whole thing it just makes me so

happy. Physical objects being made with,

you know, real presses and real quality.

And with the era of print on demand,

it's just so much slop gets put out

because anybody can put something out.

Yeah.

>> And the quality of the paper is not as

good. The quality of the printing is not

as good. The binding is not as good. But

it's fine because at least you people

can get their stuff out there. But this

this makes me happy. They're I I don't

even What made them decide to do this?

>> Uh let's see. Hold on.

I believe I'm pretty sure it was because

of what's going on in the world.

>> They said they said here that it's the

tariffs, right? That

>> um but but I guess they're finding some

sort of better printer to work with. I

don't know because to do offset printing

you have to do a pretty big run.

>> Yeah.

>> For for the size of what this industry

is. Because the thing is that

>> it isn't worth spinning the presses. The

first couple hundred or maybe even 500

copies fly off the press before you can

barely even get it turned on. Right.

You're you're doing thousands at a time

to make it worthwhile. So if you only

need a hundred, there's just no point in

doing this,

>> right?

>> Well, they did. So there were there were

some concerns. So they were like um

let's see um let's see the program is

currently in its infancy. Initial

feedback noted uh rudimentary

methods uh for order communication such

as All right. So their ordering is going

to be an issue right because they

haven't figured all that out. That's a

whole you know you you've built websites

Jason with uh where people interact with

with the website. Um so there's that's

going to be a learning curve. um uh

there's an inventory issue, a major

concern is the current inability to

track inventory through their systems.

So much like we have our warehouse where

we can track our inventory and and you

and I know that that's not exactly 100%

either. Um it gets a little tricky at

times, just imagine doing this with

like, you know, all these

>> big guys. It gets tricky. So, um, we

sell through Amazon as well as through

our own site and we recently shipped

several hundred box sets off to Amazon

and then they just sort of lost

>> like 300 of them.

>> They just disappeared. I mean,

thankfully they paid us for them. So, it

was actually great. We're like, please

lose more of our games.

>> Yeah.

>> Lose the whole freaking fine.

>> They don't get out then. They don't get

out.

>> They didn't pay us that much. They paid

us pennies on the dollar. But the point

is, it's hard to keep track of this

stuff. And RPG has never in the history

of their company had to think about

inventory.

>> So this will be a new one for them.

>> So it's ironic that in here it says Roll

20, which owns the marketplace. Mhm.

>> It's ironic that now Roll 20, which is a

company that's based on making sure that

you don't sit at a table with your

friends, um, instead that you go and you

spend all your time fiddling around with

menus and

>> not having any fun. Um, roll 20 is the

ones that made enough money to be able

to make this happen. So,

>> yeah,

>> good job, Roll 20. You

>> Yeah, nice to see that kind of the

synergy. It's interesting when you're

talking about um the printing because my

family is a printing family. Um so like

you know yeah I I've I've seen hot metal

printers in like in use from members of

my family and that kind of stuff back in

back in the day.

>> Uh we have a national print museum here

actually in Dublin which is a beautiful

thing because it's a they have all the

old machines that you can actually use.

You can actually print with

>> you can actually go in that's

>> on my list.

>> Yeah. No, it's it's a pretty special

place, especially for anyone who's had

any background of printing. Like they

have, you know, they have a replica of

the Gutenberg press and they have all

the presses from 1900s right through to

>> to the mid 20th century, 21st century,

you know, it's very very cool place.

>> My favorite college um who kind of got

me into a lot of the print stuff now

lives in Paris and runs a uh a print

shop that specializes in using just the

old equipment.

>> Awesome. That sort of thing. It's

>> there's something special about

something printed on one of those

machines though. There's something kind

of uh the tactile nature of it. The kind

of the blood's gone into it.

>> Yeah,

>> it literally sometimes does.

>> Chad said Chad says uh 25 years of

printing from sweeping floors and

loading paper then running sheetfed and

gross web.

>> Goss web.

>> Goss web, sorry. Goss web. Yeah. Uh,

pre-press and project management made me

so much better as an artist and helping

clients with design issues.

>> Yeah, absolutely. I love the first thing

you said was sheetfed Hidleberg. I'm

like man.

>> Oh, yeah. I mean, we didn't usually run

on we we usually would run on a web

press, but the sheetfeds are very cool.

And then Scott Kongable says, "Print

ships print shops have a distinct

smell."

>> They do.

>> Yes, they do. Absolutely. There are two

smells in this world that I love the

most. The smell of diesel fuel and the

smell of a print shop.

>> Oh, you like diesel fuel? I do not

>> dissimilar.

>> No, they're not dissimilar.

>> They're not dissimilar. Yeah.

>> Or any diesel fuel, oil, gas. I don't

know. There's something about all of

that.

>> Smelling it. Do you have to Are you okay

with working in that? cuz anytime that

I've had to do that at work where I've

had to work, you know, because work

around vehicles and stuff and there's a

lot of exhaust and uh and the diesel

they use is called JP8, which is a

military type fuel. Um, man, it gives me

a headache. It makes me sick.

>> Well, you're smelling the exhaust. It

smells better going in than it does.

>> Kind of the fuel around, you know, you

can still smell that diesel fuel. It

gives Yeah, it it kind of messes with me

a little bit.

>> I don't know. The exhaust, not so much.

It's just it's a nostalgic smell to me

because it reminds me of high school and

you know fixing up cars and all that

sort of thing.

>> I feel like we've come back to the

natural selection conversation, you

know, huffing exhausts and eating lead

miniatures, you know.

>> How am I still here?

>> Yeah, right.

>> It's educational, folks.

>> Hey, you know what? And back in the day,

back in our day when we were young, uh

the the lead and the exhaust, all the

same thing really. You could suck that

lead right in.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> It's beautiful. It's like it's like when

you see those stories on the TV of a 110

year old granny and they're asking, "How

did you get so old?" She's like, "Well,

I smoke two packs a day and it keeps me

up right?"

>> Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. And and the

whiskey in there, too. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. For the vitam for the vitamins.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Exactly.

>> All right. Let's go. We'll do we'll do

one last one.

>> We'll do a last quick one. Um this is a

friend of ours. Um

Peter Salum uh has a Kickstarter going

on right now. I just wanted to give him

a mention just because, you know, I've

I've talked with him a bunch of times.

We'll see him at Total Con. He's just a

nice guy. Um it's called Beacon Island.

It's a Savage Worlds adventure. He

generally does he doesn't do his own

systems. He generally does stuff for

other people. Kind of like Ian McGardi

um who was on last week. Um but it's

Beacon Island is a character-driven

investigation, savage worlds adventure,

and mini setting where the secrets of

the unknown confront the unbridled

curiosity of youth. So, you're basically

playing kids, uh teenagers, on kids on

bikes. Yes, kids on bikes.

>> We love some kids on bikes. We got We

got to get them to run this at ModCon.

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But most

especially, which was interesting to me,

and I guess it's cuz Peter's, you know,

he's a little bit younger. Uh it's set

in the 90s, you know, like where you and

I, if we're doing

>> Oh, the ancient far back long ago years,

>> the the late 20th century. Yeah.

>> Yeah. The late 1900s.

>> Yeah. Late 1900s.

>> Set in the late 1900s.

>> Oh, I hate that phrase. Not good. Right.

That's grim.

>> That is grim.

>> The previous millennia. Anyway, so the

Kickstarter is going on right now. So,

just look this up. Uh it's Beacon

Island. Um and and Peter Salum. It's

Pear Street Studios. Uh he does good

stuff. I have two of his other books

that he did and they're very good. So,

>> it looks great. Set on a remote New

England island rich with secrets.

>> Yeah.

>> We love a remote New England island

around here.

>> Yep.

>> So, yes, we do.

>> So, check it out. All right. Uh that is

that is it for our news items. I guess

now we go to

>> All right. All right.

>> Uh I'll do a little bit of an intro and

we'll start asking you some stuff. So uh

as I said this this year um I decided to

go to Gailcon rather than going to um I

don't even remember which convention

here. I skipped for it. Uh, I I found

out that now that I live on the east

coast, it's very short hop over to

Ireland. And I'm like, I got to go to

this convention. I want to, you know,

meet new people, meet new games,

everything else. And they said, here's

our guest of honor this year. And Cole

Lunberg. And I was like, okay, who's

that? And I get there and uh there you

are. And it turns out that one of your

the big things that you do in addition

to many others is the Museum of Games

Ireland. Uh, turns out we actually knew

some of the same people because of the

stuff that you're doing here. So, I was

very excited to get you to come on the

show and talk about not just the museum,

but also some of the other stuff you do.

So, give us just kind of the the quick

uh the elevator bio of all the different

stuff you've done and what the museum

is.

>> Okay. So, um I'm a writer, games

designer. I write a lot of stuff for

Ghost Press. I've written for

Pathfinder. I have designed the game

Love to Hate. I've got a couple of other

games coming out soon. I've done stuff

for F Greenians Fantasy Age as well. So,

I've got a kind of a bit of a bit of a

mixed bag. Writing, I suppose, is is my

is my my my passion and that's kind of

where a lot of it comes from. Um, I've

worked with C. Jackson Games previously

uh um uh as controlling his um as

control is what they call it there, the

head of the volunteer brigade. So, I

kind of have I've been in the industry

kind of peripherilally or bits and

pieces for the last long while last I

guess over 20 over well over 20 years

anyway. Um, and I've been on the Irish

gaming scene as as convention organizer

for about as long. Um, and and the

museum yeah I appear to have set up a

museum by mistake is what I tell people.

So it started off as I said we we I live

in clarin here for the last 18 years and

about 3 years ago Rob open opened the

games uh two years ago actually a game

store called the guild hall and he had

that space there I mean that that's a

very that's a a photograph at the very

early stages of the museum he had that

space there uh that he couldn't put

anything in and I said hey I've got some

vintage games I'll put up a a display

might be a point of interest people

might you know like it um and um Rob

said oh that's a cool idea I love that

so drew up some games from my own

collection And I was talking, we started

jokingly referring to it as the museum.

So I was talking to Steve Jackson one

night and um in America, American Steve

Jackson, not not the UK.

>> Yeah. Not the UK, Steve. Jackson,

although American Steve Jackson did

write some of the fighting fantasy books

just to confuse people to make it work.

>> Yeah. Um but yeah, and uh he said, "Oh,

that's a great idea. Wonderful. I'll

send you over my archive." Um

okay. Uh yeah. So this archive was a

water damage in a flood. So I said,

"Will you be able to um what do you want

to do?" It said, "Well, look, you know,"

said I've always wanted to have a space

where I could the focus is preservation,

conservation, and digitization, not a

play museum, but something like that.

So, these eight crates came over anyway,

and I'm I'm picking out handwritten

pencil notes for a game called Bolo from

1974 that became Ogre. Original maps and

scripts for the Fighting Fantasy books

he wrote, correspondence with Games

Workshop. Uh, the Fantasy Trip original

script, the original kind of monster

sketches for the Fantasy Trip, you know,

copies of Malle, you know, in their

infancy. um and and all these kind of

pencil notes, you know, um which which

became various products from from Steve

Jackson from the early days from the

time of Metagaming before Steve Jackson

games right into into SJG. Um and I was

kind of going, well, I I I better take

this seriously now, I guess. Um I

better, you know, this is real stuff. Uh

and um so I spent a lot of time kind of

focusing on on preserving them. My

previous job, I worked for the

government. previous job was dealing

with cultural museums with um who deal

with specialized kind of teams or

specialized or or regional museums. So I

had access to conservators. Um so when

the stuff came over water damage I kind

of got on what do I do with this and

they gave me great guidance so I could

actually separate the pages. I could

preserve it all.

>> You say that you actually had to get it

wet again.

>> Yeah. So it came over wet and

>> Yeah. So I got on to um the wonderful

person in the Chester B library which is

a fantastic collection. I mean, they

have papyrus from 30,000 BC. So, I kind

of figured they'd, you know, they know

what they're talking about, I guess. You

know, if you can conserve paper that

old, you know, they probably have a good

idea. But, yeah. So, the paper was kind

of stuck together. So, they said, you

know, get it wet, basically. Leave it in

a in a room with steam or or put gently

put it to water. I'm going that sounds

counterintuitive, but you know, you do

this for a living. I don't. And yeah, so

you get them wet. Um, they they separate

easier then and then you dry them again.

And it was just like it worked really

really well. of the 600 or so 800 or so

documents that Steve sent over 800 page

or whatever it was, I was able to

separate all but one of them. Um, so I

had a wonderful moment at the UK Expo

last year where I kind of went had a fob

and I said, "There you go Steve, there's

all your records digitized

professionally,"

>> you know. Um, uh, so that was that was a

wonderful moment to be able to do that.

>> What was his reaction?

>> Uh, anyone who knows Steve Jackson knows

that Steve doesn't necessarily react,

right? um you know he's he's he's um

>> I've I've met him one time. So

>> he's a lovely guy when he when you get

the number but he's quite a kind of a

shy kind of um um you know he kind of

one of these still waters run deeps guy.

>> Um but no he kind of led up you know um

he's been very supportive. He said look

that's amazing. Thank you very much. But

he's been very supportive. Um you know

he keeps kind of saying hey I found

this. I'm going to send it over. Hey I

found something else you know from the

1950s. I'll send that over. You know

he's been very supportive and he's been

very good at um

>> promoting the museum on his website.

Once once that kind of kicked in,

it became this thing that there's

clearly a demand for. I mean, there's

the board game museum in England run by

Tony. Lovely guy, amazing place.

>> Museum.

>> It's it's in kind of a beautiful kind of

national park. So, it's a lovely kind of

setting as well. Um, that's a damn good

question and I think I should know, but

it is 2:00 in the morning here. My

brain's not working. Um, but if you

Google board game of Inca, which um you

um I can't remember the name of the

park, but uh yeah. So um there's there's

a strong museum of play obviously you

know um and there is um there's another

museum it's in K new it nesters

>> is a museum is the museum of board games

>> um there you go and there's pockets of

museums around the place but I'm not

aware of any other museum that exists

which is trying to capture the modern

tabletop gaming hobby um by which I mean

you know really the hobby that started

in kind of the the mid60s, you know,

when when board games started to become

more kind of tactical, more kind of

simulation type, you know, war games and

that kind of thing. You could you could

really take it back the modern hobby, I

suppose, back to little wars

>> or HD Wells if you wanted to do that.

>> But, uh, it's not if not necessarily

looking at like stuff like Senate or Go

or, you know, or the evolution of chess.

It's not kind of going there yet.

Anyway,

>> remind you about that little wars again.

So,

>> yeah, absolutely. But uh so it became

this thing and and suddenly donations

started coming in and people started

going that's a really great idea that's

fantastic. And the more kind of and it's

only been it's only been opened by a

year but the more the year kind of went

by the more I kind of went okay you know

what what is my what's my philosophy

here? What's my goal here? Um and I

realized very quickly on that it was

about preservation. It was about

conservation. It's that kind of um

philosophy of planting the seeds of a

tree under whose shade you'll never sit.

You know, it's about kind of preserving

these for future generations. There are

museums out there where you can play

these games. There are places where you

can go and that's fine and that's cool

and I totally respect that.

>> There's a lot of private individuals

that are, you know, building great

collections of those, but that's very

different

>> from the actual

museum

level preservation approach to

especially a lot of the ephemera, a lot

of the unique bits like what you have in

Steve Jackson's collection.

>> Absolutely. And I mean I've got I've got

I got a lovely Indonesia Gale kind of

two games from 94. The World Fair in

1904, you know, um and all these kind of

things. I mean the the thing the hobbies

the hobby's old enough now that you can

still get access to these kind of

things. You can still get access, you

know, you can get access to Talisman

first edition. You can get access to to

um to D and D first edition. You know,

you can get a white box out. You'll pay

for it, but you can get these things.

These things are going I mean I remember

I was talking to Ian Livingston at the

expo about this. We made a good

conversation about it with with Jonathan

Green. Um and the three of us were

talking and Steve said, "Oh yeah, I got

a white box set um in the shrink that

Gary gave me,

>> you know, talk about your provenence.

That's pretty cool." But I was also

thinking in another five, six, 10 years.

>> There's not going to be anyone that can

say that line,

>> right? Do

>> you know or there may not be anyone that

can actually say that line. This is

something that Gary Gyak handed me, you

know, and we've lost, you know, so many

people over the last

>> four or five years really. It's it's

it's phenomenal and co played a part in

that. But also it's just a kind of you

know we're all getting older.

>> Yeah. So another 10 years you might not

be able to get this kind of stuff. But

it just kind of

>> I mean the the the original people um

some hang on some are gone. But now

we're as you say we're even at the stage

where the next generation those that

those of us and maybe a little bit older

than us who came after them

>> who understand and appreciate how

important this

>> is are also fading. And so how do we

keep on passing on that that that

interest?

>> Absolutely. I

participate in other hobbies that are

sort of similar. So, you can see behind

me here, I have some of my my my little

computer.

>> Yeah. Looking at those. Yeah.

>> And it's it's the same sort of thing.

There's a lot of these where right now

people they spend huge amounts of money

on what they consider to be rare and

important things, but you also hear

about somebody who's like, "Oh, yeah, he

died and his family threw everything out

because there was a load of old junk,

right? They don't appreciate and

understand." So, it's more than just

preserving the items, but it's

preserving the story. 100%. Absolutely.

And these are cultural artifacts, you

know, as gaming kind of grows

exponentially and becomes more and more

mainstream. These are even of more

important culture. And it's funny you

should say that because I think that was

the emotional trigger in my head a

couple years ago when when I mentioned

Joe Diver when he passed away, his

family sold his stuff um as part of the

estate. So they're selling off his

miniatures, they're selling off his

notes, and I'm kind of going I remember

thinking somebody need that needs to get

preserved. That's a story there. That's

a self-contained part of the foundation

of the modern hobby. and and and

obviously they're entitled to do that.

They have the full, you know, that

they're they have the right to do that.

But I'm just I was just thinking that

that's a part of the hobby that if you

could just get all that and hold it,

that's kind of one of the one of the

five or six foundation blocks of of what

we enjoy today. Um and to be able to

kind of capture and hold that. So I

think that was kind of the emotional

kind of um foundation stone on which the

notion was built and then it just kind

of evolved into into what it is now

which is um a museum and it's still kind

of modest. It's still small. It's still

me

way. You're not biting off more than you

can chew on day one.

>> No. No. I mean you got to start these

things slow if they're going to evolve

properly. But you got to do it properly.

And most of the money I've sank into it

has been for museum quality

preservation, for museum quality

digitization, you know, for the you can

see some archive boxes and maybe if I

can sort of there behind it behind my

painting station, you know, they're

they're proper, you know, they they've

got copies of things in them, but

they're proper archival boxes. You know,

there's loads of kind everything's

acidfree, all the kind of proper stuff,

>> which obviously costs money, but

>> it really does. I mean, that's the thing

is the acquisition is just one piece of

it all.

>> Yeah. the actual um preservation and

display and everything else. Yeah.

>> Matters a lot. And and the thing about

it is that

>> games I think more than most other uh

disciplines or whatever, they're a

reflection of our culture, too.

>> Yeah. you know, because of course

there's the things where we can say,

well, Dungeons and Dragons is a

touchstone because everybody played it,

and if you watch certain TV shows,

you'll see people playing it, and you

want to make sure that you're kind of

reflecting the society around it,

>> but they are also a reflection of what

matters to people and how people see the

rest of the world.

>> So, for example, um there's been such

controversy and debate about how DND

should even be played, right?

How did people play it in the year 2025?

Somebody who was born in the year 2010,

you know, how are they playing it?

Right? And certain people who are around

from the 70s, they might get angry about

it. They're like, "Well, you're not

playing it the way I played it." Well,

it's a different generation and it's a

different set of values. The people who

were playing in 1974 were raised on pulp

and good versus evil, black and white,

you know, very big obvious things. The

people are playing it in 2025 and who

are 15 years old were raised on a

totally different set of values. And

looking at those games tells you a lot

about the world that they were in. You

have to be able to preserve not just the

game, but the kind of things that you

have, the ephemera, the background to

show what's going on here, what's going

on behind those games.

>> But the games themselves tell a story as

well. I mean, you look at the kind of

the the the the little chit heavy games,

the war simulations of the 1970s and the

1980s, you know, you look at the the

artwork that was in early D and D and

early Gersps and early kind of, you

know, and and you know, it's very

heavily kind of male oriented, you know.

Um, and you look at the the evolution of

even even Munchkin for example, like

there's a second edition coming out

where they've kind of, you know, where

John John Cavalic, the artist who did

the logo for the museum, for which I'm

very grateful. Yeah. Here we go. Um, you

know, and he's he's annoyingly proud of

the logo. I have to annoy proud.

>> It's a great logo. John,

>> it is. No, he's deserving.

>> Great guy. It's a great logo. Cats. It's

good.

>> And Muggy is obviously cat's known

phrase for a cat in Ireland. Um, so

that's where obviously you say

obviously. We're talking to an American

audience. None of the

>> Well, you know, to me it's obvious.

>> I'm I'm only on my second week of

Duallingingo for Irish right now. Okay.

So,

>> right, you'll get there. You'll get

there. But, um, but, you know, but even

the the products themselves tell like I

I got a wonderful donation of a game

called Tank Attack, which is like, you

know, the only computerized game, you

know, in 1977, the only computerized

game in the world. And the the the

computer is literally a circuit of a

random light generator with six bulbs

that kind of tells you tells you what

combat action you're going to do. So,

you know, the games themselves tell a

story as well. The evolution of the

games into the kind of the high high

production quality, the high kind of

miniature quality that we have now.

Games like Blue Rose, which is kind of

very much centered around like you know

um it's not centered around but elements

of polyamory elements kind of like you

know um you know open open gender fluid

kind of characters and all that kind of

thing. So the you know the the games

themselves are are artifacts of a

certain point in time and a reflection

of reality. I think you know There's

your culture and your games reflecting

each other.

>> Yeah. Brian Brian in the in the chat

says we're aren't all Americans.

>> Brian, you're Canadian. I think draw

distinction.

>> I think that's Derek Bole. He's a friend

of mine from Ireland who's a also

and Eric for staying up late. Thank you.

>> And indeed a donor to the a donor to the

museum. He he gave me a copy copy of the

original June. And it's interesting

because I had a copy of the original

June as well.

>> Yeah. And um

>> there there there's my Irish for the

day. Diodich.

>> There you go. Ditch. Yeah. But uh so and

there there's an interesting story about

the and this is kind of this is part of

the whole kind of thing. So there's two

the June 1st edition printed in the same

factory printed in the same kind of um

printing press.

>> Back then they used to print the insert

brown box separately. So they'd loads of

those brown boxes. If you if you open if

open most of those kind of bookshelf

games from the 1980s, they'll be the

same brown box on the inside. So they

printed the cover. Um, but the first

print run the cover was brown on the

side. Then they ran out of that either

the ink or the card. I'm not really

sure. So the second print from the same

machine in the same week is orange.

>> H.

>> So it's got, you know, part of the

story, but it's also kind of capturing

the the weird and the unusual like the

strange dice or I think I said it to

Jason about the game Break Key, which I

think was released in Gen Con.

>> I don't remember if we It was released

in Gen Con 2002. And the object of the

game is the two players link these two

plastic keys, twist them, one of them

breaks.

Oh, you gave me Kingmaker, Derek. Sorry.

You gave me Kingmaker Second Edition

unpunched.

>> Oh,

>> unpunched. Wow.

>> Yeah. Thank you, Derek. Uh, but yeah, so

one of the keys breaks and game is over.

>> Yeah.

>> Not a lot of replayability in that one.

No. You know. Um.

>> Yeah. What what do they call that? A

legacy game.

>> A broken key game. Broken. Yeah.

Exactly. There's another there's another

game which

>> that's a pretty brilliant marketing

strategy. Oh, do you want to play again?

You can buy another one.

>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's another

game called uh which is in the second

edition now called Flipcoin.

>> No.

>> Yeah. Yeah. The second edition is

Flipcoin Monster cuz the coin has a

monster on it. Um but yeah, so you know,

so it's it's kind of it's it's things

like that, the quirky things like that.

Um you know, which which I I love kind

of finding again, which kind of tells a

another story about the hobby as well,

you know what I mean? But it's so it's

it's not just the the the old and the

kind of the the the old story. It's it's

it's where the hobby is now as well and

and the interesting things around kind

of periphery of it.

>> But you're you're going outside. You're

you're not just limiting yourself to uh

RPGs. So I I know you recently got a

what was it 1904 copy of Pit?

>> Yeah. 1904 copy of Pit and Quit by the

Parker brothers from the World the World

Fair. Um but yeah know the the object is

and I have like I've miniaturatures all

the old games workshop miniatures you

know um the old so the idea and a lot of

kind of I got an uh acquisition of about

6,000 Magic cards which I seeded

individually um which people said you're

nuts doing that like why don't you just

say a pile of magic cards and kind of

going because you know back in 1993 when

we were all playing this like black

lotus and chiffon dragon didn't mean

anything to us. Yeah,

>> you know, they were nice cards. They

were kind of useful cards, but like I

mean, hey, if I lost like whatever, you

know, so you who knows where these cards

are going to go, so you need to kind of

preserve them individually, which I'm

just finished doing, by the way, after

about 6 months. But, um, you have a

couple of hours a day. But, uh, you

know, th those are the kind of things.

Uh, so it's card games, it's it's

tabletop, um, RPGs, it's board games,

and it's it's, um, it's miniature games

and war games. Um, you know, you kind of

lead heavy into the gains workshop or

the alternative armies or the dibus

antiquitatus which I think was a UK and

Ireland phenomenon. I'm not sure if that

made it across the water. It's kind of

historical.

>> I know that one.

>> It's historical kind of mostly

historical. They do fantasy as well, but

mostly historical miniature war game

based on lead miniatures back from the

1970s DBA was going. Um, and there's

some serious hardcore players u still

around who just play DBA. Um, so you

know, um, it's kind of trying to capture

the full gamut of what we do and also

the periphery of those like, you know,

the the artifacts of those like con

badges, dice, strange dice, you know,

all that kind of thing. Um, so I think

it's probably the only museum that I'm

aware of certainly doing that. Um, it's

an ambitious goal, but you know, nothing

ever started by doing nothing. So you

start small and you kind of, you know,

as you say, you do it right and you just

see where it goes, you know. Well, and

you know, I I want to thank you for

giving me the recommendation to stop by

the Little Museum of Dublin uh before I

left because And the reason is because I

I didn't know what to expect. I I I want

to thank you also for not telling me

anything about it before I got there.

>> Good. Good.

>> Um it's the same when somebody

recommends a book or a film to me, I I

say, "Please don't tell me. Just tell me

it's good. I'll let me discover it." And

so I'm going to ruin it for people by

saying something about it.

Um, it's just a house. It's not a big

house and it's not a big museum, but

they've managed to tell a story through

individual objects that were donated by

people um, in a fascinating way. And it

opened my eyes to

how a museum doesn't need to be a huge

sprawling megaplex where you're going

through the Smithsonian and you're

seeing everything on a

>> moving sidewalk or something to get from

place to place. What a museum needs to

be is a well curated collection that

tells a story. And it opened my eyes to

how you can do an incredible museum in a

relatively small amount of space.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And so that made me think about the

efforts that you're undertaking at this

point.

>> And I I I have the advantage I mean my

job in in the government and the

cultural scene was looking after said

specialized museums. So I've had

exposure to that in a way that has shown

me that museums can be living things.

They don't have to be

>> static. They I mean there's obviously

importance in preserving the national

collection but there's a vibrancy in

some of the smaller museums that you

know in the smallest space that you

don't have the luxury of doing in the

larger museums that you can kind of

inject inject real story inject real

kind of energy into these artifacts you

know I mean I've I've I've opened the

cabinets when there countless times you

know there's a wonderful moment where a

dad came by and he said oh my god I play

that game about 40 years ago and he was

this kid said what what's that game

about so he started telling his kid

about the game you and that that they're

the moments, you know, that that I want

to kind of bring out into people, you

know, make it a live a lived experience

or recalled experience and then passing

that experience on cuz games are

experiential. You know, you experience a

game. You don't it's not a passive um

hobby. It's not a kind of passive

engagement. So, seeing that engagement

come to light through nostalgia and then

being passed on to the next generation

is what it's all about. But making it a

living connection.

>> Yeah. That's one of the reasons I really

want to get you together with with Paul

Storberg,

>> right? because so he does at Garycon

every year he does the uh legends of

wargaming is what he calls it but it's

not just wargaming it's all kinds of

things and and and like we talked about

what's exciting is seeing the kids come

into it so one of the things that he

sets up is a huge uh little wars game

with soldiers and and the proper

Britain's canyon canyons cannons and

everything else and you know some kid

who's got no I who doesn't know anything

about the history of it.

>> Certainly doesn't know who HG Wells was.

Doesn't know any of that. Just wants to

play the game because it's that fun.

>> Mhm.

>> And and here's a game. What I don't know

what year did HG Wells

>> Oh, wow. That's a good question. I I

don't know. I don't know. I've had I had

I've had a copy I've had a copy in my

hands.

>> Um I used to run charity auctions in

Ireland and somebody donated to charity

auction. I know who has it and the copy

has uh some annotation in it, some notes

added into it. Uh, so it was a really

kind of special thing. I don't even want

to think how much money it went for. I

can't recall. But uh, but um,

>> did by the way, did you get a hold of

John? Did you write back to him?

>> Uh, I I I don't recall him. Did you

write to me? I don't recall.

>> Okay, I'll I'll bug you about it right

here on this show.

>> Yeah. No, sorry. Um, I I I I made I made

contact with the person who has it.

>> Yeah. So, so, so people who are in the

chat, a lot of them know John Peterson,

uh, who wrote Playing at the World and a

lot of other things, probably the

preeminent historian of the gaming

thing. And so, being able to tell, and I

don't know if John's watching tonight or

not. If you are, say hi in the chat.

But, um, being able to tell John

something that he doesn't already know

is it it it's like finding a gold bar,

right? It's just like it's such a big

deal. I'm like, so I, so I texted John

right away and I said, John, do you know

about this these these notes that

somebody found in a copy of Little Wars?

And he's like, I don't.

>> Yeah.

>> All of a sudden, I I got this below. I'm

like, I get to tell John a new thing.

>> No, I I did I I did I did make contact.

I did email him back and I I I found the

person who um who has the book and and

they're going to kind of scan in

>> the notes.

>> Okay. There there's a um we we've got a

we've got a um a group email going. So

just if you didn't get it, check it and

I'll send it to you again.

>> 1913 by the way. 1913 was the Little

Wars.

>> 19 was when it was published. It was

written a couple years ago.

>> I had this idea that it would have been

after World War II because World War I

because I thought it was because I know

Little Wars HG Wells thought it would

help people not want to fight wars.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And I thought anything that that makes

people anytime somebody's upset about

war, it's often right after the Great

War because that was the thing that the

world

>> anything that terrible before.

>> So I just assumed it was after that. But

>> um

>> yeah,

>> just a year before. I think I think he

he he wrote it I think a couple years

before that, but year before. I mean, he

he he says in the intro of the book that

he was basically playing these rules

with his kids for a few years and he

just kind of decided to formalize them

and write them down in a in a book. But

it's um it's a nice thing to have at

least pass through your hands. Yeah, I

mean that's the thing about it like we

say with a with a cultural impact is

when you play Little Wars, it's it's a

fun game and it's interesting from a

history of how games evolved out of it.

But it's also really interesting to look

at because you have to think what was it

like to live in 1913? What did war mean

to you?

>> You know, even even the class wanted

>> Yeah.

>> Even from a class perspective because

you know, you had to be relatively well

off to afford these toys. you know, back

back in back in in what was still late

Victorian England, you know, the the the

poverty gap was was was was notable. Uh

and in order to have the luxury of

having toy soldiers and having a toy

fort and being able to have a room on

your kitchen floor, your city floor

just the space to even play the game.

Yeah.

>> Yeah. You could go out in the garden to

play it, but I mean most people didn't

have a garden. I I I what I learned in

the uh going to the little museum of

Dublin and they showed the street and

they said, "How many people do you think

lived on this block that should house

about 80 people and it turned out to be

800 people?"

>> Oh, there was um my family were

Protestants when they came over from

Sweden. Um but they married into

Catholics and very much got cut off for

the money. So there's a tenement. So the

tenementss were what the the slums in

Dublin were called.

>> Yeah. Um and in the when they when they

went through the paperwork in the

tenement regime they found out that my

family the Lunberg family uh there was

11 of them living in one room in in this

and that's what that was quite common

back then but if you walk into the it's

a it's a nice thing in some ways if you

walk into the the tenement museum

>> you'll see my family listed because that

was the house just pure coincidence that

was the house that um that they lived in

became the museum and 11 Henry Street

and my family the family are listed

there all 11 kids and two parents, but

people 12 13 people living in in in one

room was was the order of the the

tenement life, you know, and that would

have been around that time.

>> Yeah. When you play a game like Little

Wars, you really you're not middle

class, you're you're upper class.

>> Absolutely.

>> I don't know how much middle class

existed in 1913, but

>> you're certainly upper class.

>> But and it's interesting to see kind of,

you know, from a class perspective, the

the evolution of the hobby as well,

because let's face it, the hobby ain't

cheap. you know, if you're going if

you're getting war games, if you're

going down the miniature games and, you

know, my my background is very much, you

know, we didn't have money growing up,

you know. Um, I I was I like most people

our age, I was kind of working in the

local hotel around 13, 14, you know. Um,

and and that money, you know, was

translated into Fighting Fantasy books,

one Fighting Fantasy book every every

two weeks kind of thing, you know, and

that was my start on the hobby, but, you

know, there were plenty of people around

me who didn't have access to that, you

know. Um, so it's interesting how the

hobby evolved and and you know, as I

said, it's not an expens. It's not a

cheap hobby. The whole joke like, you

know, oh, oh, he's really rich, he takes

six figures home, you know, and they're

talking about game workshop figures.

But, uh, you know, but but it is a it is

it is it's it's a legitimate reflection

of wealth. You know, somebody can afford

every box out every week like that's

>> I'll tell you, I ne I never got into

Warhammer. I loved Warhammer and I would

I would play it with my friends, but

they always loan me the the pieces.

>> I I could not I I couldn't afford to get

into the hobby. Like I liked playing it.

It was great, but I I could not be one

of the guys who showed up with a zillion

figures that, you know, $10,000 in

figures.

>> Even after you get the figures, you have

to spend the money in the paints and

they have to do the painting.

>> Yeah. and the scenery and all kind right

up my shelf there. There is something

that I I I bought relatively recently

that I I opened the White Dwarf magazine

when I was about I don't know 14 and

there was the Bane Blade tank. I

thought, "Oh, that's that that's a

vehicle." So about two about two weeks

ago I I went out and bought one. So it's

a it's a personal evolution of where I

came from and where I came through as

well. But I think that's reflected with

a lot of people, you know, they they

they they had this hobby. And that was

the great thing about role playing games

is you you know, and this is the

interesting dichotomy between parts of

the hobby. Like to be a Magic the

Gathering collector, you need to be

rich. Let's face it. You know,

>> to be an RPG person, you need someone to

have the books.

>> Mhm. But you can come along with a sheet

of paper and a pencil and and borrow

some dice and you can engage in that

interaction as as fully as anyone who's

spent300 or $400 on on the collection of

books, you know. Uh so it is in some

ways a leveler uh in the way that other

parts of the hobby aren't. And I think

that's an interesting creates an

interesting kind of blend of people

across the hobby, you know.

>> So you never managed to sit down and

actually do the numbers on this because

I don't think you could. But in the

early 19 mid 1970s,

most people who were playing Dungeons

and Dragons, at least anecdotally, they

were playing it with a xeroxed copy.

>> Yeah. Or or or Jason, you would have

one person who would have the books like

even even it was your whole group

pitched in.

>> Yeah. That was the way it was. I mean,

you know, growing up in Iowa where we

were all our first jobs were detazzling

corn and also uh cleaning hotel rooms

and things like that. No, you of your

friend group, you would pull your money

to get the books.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. And the and the best part was is

that while there were adventures and

modules and stuff that you could buy,

you didn't need to at all. I mean, we

played so many many unbelievable number

uncountable number of hours. They

weren't modules, you know. We did play

modules but

>> the vast majority of ours was just like

>> the DM making stuff up.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's it's

that level of kind of of of of open

engagement that and let's face it like

you know being a being a nerd in in the

late '7s and early 80s was a lot

different than than the way the hobby is

now. I mean we weren't the athletic

people typically. You know we we we we

were the we were the the people who who

read books and and who were bullied and

who were you know ostracized because we

weren't sporty because we didn't do the

the things that we were supposed to do.

We didn't go out to whatever it was,

disco, whatever it was, you know, at 16,

17, we, you know, so when you put those

kind of two things together, um, you

know, you have you're kind of isolated

in some ways by class and then you're

isolated in some ways by by

>> whatever soal strata um the the area has

to has has happens to impose. and you

have this one thing that offers you a

lifeline, that gives you friends, that

puts you in a room with four or five

other people and suddenly something

magical happens and and that's carried

through.

>> You know, that that's that's a cultural

phenomenon. And you know, and people are

saved by that, you know, literally,

metaphorically emotionally

intellectually, whatever it is across

the board. And it's important to kind of

to have that story told that, you know,

it's great that somebody can come along,

open a D and D and and just just play

the game or watch the movie, watch the

movie or go along to Wembley Arena and

see a game being played as part of the

audience. I mean, this is

>> for us that's like

>> back then it was for the birds. But, you

know, where it is now, it's important to

look back where it was then and say,

look, in the we were the the six nerds

sitting in a room,

>> you know, with Xerox copies or or pen

and paper, you know, and pen and paper

maps on on on on square paper, you know,

um uh we were those kids. And not to say

that, you know, oh, we're pioneers or

whatever, but just to say like that's

where it was and and now look at where

it is. Um, and and and to kind of map

that evolution as part of a story is

really important, part of our story.

>> Well, yeah. You know, it's it's funny. I

can I tell people now, I'm like, if you

want to know what it was like when I was

a kid playing D and D with my friends

and such, I was like, the opening scenes

of the opening scene of season one of

Stranger Things is exactly us. That is

us. That's that that could be a picture

of us. And it's the best part is is that

the actors in that scene were basically

13. I think one was maybe 14 or 12. One

was off, but the other three were 13.

And that scene is supposed to take place

in 1983. In 1983, I was 13 in a basement

playing D and D with four other friends.

It It's literally us. So I'm always

like, that's exactly what it looks like.

>> It's been captured correctly. I think ET

there's a scene in ET was very spot on.

>> Freaks and geeks managed to catch it.

>> And uh there's one other there's a film

I I finally had to buy the DVD of it

because I couldn't find it anywhere

online, but it's a Scottish movie called

Gamers with a Z or a zed at the end. And

uh if you really want to see a very

accurate uh picture, not just of the

kids getting together, but what we were

saying about just spending that time

alone in your room just drawing the maps

and just being in your head. And that

film captures that really well.

>> So I would say watch that film too if

you can find a copy anywhere. And on the

other side there's a wonderful um

mid1980 984 documentary um or news story

really where they go out to Games

Workshop and you know if you want to if

you want to escape from reality you know

terribly English voice if you want to

escape from reality and try your hand at

some strange you're making your own

world you can go down to your local game

store and play a new event called

Dungeons and Dragons and it's like could

you be more patronizing you know and and

the questions asked and and the way the

kind of and it's certainly in Livingston

and Steve Jackson actually giving the

from the gamer side.

>> Uh but it's really kind of like you know

they're asking questions like like you

know so so so why do you create worlds

like well

>> really I mean you know you know you're

asking leading questions which backed

them into a corner um you know

throughout the entire thing.

>> Oh Aiden Aiden Walsh says that gamers

was actually shown at Gailcon one year.

Well, that's quite absid

Aiden is a long both Aiden and Eric are

long longtime friends and it's great to

see them great to see them being

relatively

>> insomic.

Um

but yeah um and um you know and even I

did a a radio interview for News Talk um

in the late 90s about gaming and you

know they finished the interview and

they immediately started talking about

nerds and geeks and like you know how

how only the kind of the the

disenfranchised or the isolation society

played this game. So they basically had

the interview the interview went fine

and then they kind of lambasted the

hobby. So, you know, and you look at

things now like Stranger Things and like

D and D, suddenly it's cool,

>> you know, suddenly it's it's wow, it's

look at this, this is amazing, it's cool

going, you know, um and that's an

interesting kind of evolution, you know,

as I said, the Wembley Arena thing is

just um

>> is just crazy. You know, the Critical

Role thing, you know, making cartoons,

making what the hell is happening here?

Henry Caval's 40k series next year is

going to be meteoric

nuts. On the one hand, yeah, I'm a bit

jealous of the kids who grew up with

that sort of thing that they have today.

But on the other hand, I think they

should be a bit jealous because there's

there's there's a specialness that comes

from being in an ostracized,

>> right?

>> You know,

>> I think it's great though. I think I

think it's great where the hobby is now.

I think it's it's it's

>> it's you know, it's built on such a

strong foundation. It's great. I think I

think I was looking at a couple of kids

playing the game when I was running my

own game today uh in in the store um in

in Rob's store the guild hall and you

know um running fifth edition and the

kids were kind of you know you could see

the DM oh the house is shaking and all

this kind all this kind of stuff and

he's really get into it he's playing

voic

there's still magic there

>> there's still the same magic is still

there you know um and these were kids

about maybe 15 14 15 and the magic is

still there so I

I think the wider the hobby goes, I I I

think it's just designed particularly

role playing games more so than board

games. Board games are kind of are

becoming there's a pivot, I think, away

from community computer games into a

shared experience.

>> Um, yeah, it kind of the computer games

dominated for so long now as a pivot. I

see that in my my 14-year-old nephew.

There's a pivot.

>> He wants to go out there and play a

board game,

>> you know. He wants to sit with people.

>> The pendulum swings, doesn't it?

>> For sure. Absolutely. So, I think it's a

good time, but I think I think I think

people are rediscovering the magic that

we had. I think the main thing is it's a

lot easier to access. It's a lot more

affordable.

>> It's a lot more better advertised. Uh,

you know, you can walk into any shop

now, any bookshop, and there'll be a

Dungeons and Dragon starter set, you

know, so it's a lot more in your face

and it's a lot more mainstream because

they can watch a movie about it,

>> you know, they can watch Critical Role,

they can watch people playing this game.

So, it's a lot more accessible um and a

lot less peripheral than it was for us,

but I think the magic is still there. I

like to think

>> and and and hopefully, you know, the the

kids who are playing it at this point

will be interested in the history of it

and want to see the things that in the

museum and and even people who don't

have an interest in gaming per se, I do

think that the story you're going to be

able to tell through Mogi um is one that

goes beyond gaming because it just it

tells the larger story of the of the

culture around it.

>> I hope so. I hope so. I hope to

eventually get there. But as I said, the

the the the the moment of that father

explaining to his kid

>> what he played and what it was like and

and and the fun he had and the magic he

experience.

>> That to me is

kind of the core of it,

>> you know, preserving these things for

people to have those conversations.

>> Well, you're you're going to love this

story. So, we're watching, you know,

Stranger Things season 5 is coming out.

So, my daughter and I big fans. So, it's

I I think it's awesome that my daughter

is like a huge fan of that show and so

we watch it together. So, we're

rewatching

the four seasons up to this fifth one.

>> Cool.

>> And so, we were watching it the other

night and it was the mind flare episode

and they they were, you know, Dustin's

trying to explain the mind flare to

everybody and he pulls out the monster

manual and he opens it up and he points

to the mind flare. Well, I get up

because because we're watching TV in my

studio here. I went over and grabbed

that monster manual, the the original

monster manual, opened it up and put it

in front of her and went, "There it is

right there." And she's like, "Oh my

god, you have that book." Like,

>> "Oh man, that's good." Mine are in the

museum.

>> She says, she says, she looks at me, she

goes, "Oh my god, you're that old.

>> You're that old."

>> Yep. Yep, we are.

>> You You were thinking, "Oh, you're that

cool." No, she's like, "You're that

old."

>> No, she thought it was cool. No, no, she

No, I know. Trust me, that's cool.

That's right.

>> She thought it was cool. It was It was a

really cool moment.

>> Absolutely. And and and that's what it's

about, you know. It's about kind of

connecting generations with those

moments,

>> you know.

>> So, um, Colum, if folks want to visit

the museum, donate objects to the

museum, or just help out in any way,

what are some things they can do?

>> It's all on muggy.ie, mogi.ie.

um at the moment um so selling stuff

internationally is is a big problem in

terms of tax and in terms of tariffs and

in terms of all those horrible things at

the moment. So um what I'm trying to do

is set up kind of a a vehicle a funding

vehicle something like a Patreon

>> um where the the merchandise will be

rewards rather than sold, you know.

Okay.

>> Um I'll also be setting up a donations

kind of there's a weird thing in Ireland

where if you set yourself up with a

charity, you can't accept donations for

about a year. Um,

>> which which makes sense. I mean, if you

It does. No, it makes keeps people.

>> I I get it. I get it, you know. Um, so

I'm kind of I'm I'm looking at options

setting myself as a soul trader rather

than a charity and then pivoting into

charity because that's a possibility as

well. So, as I said, it's only been a

year. So, uh, but the most important

thing people can do now really for me is

to log on to the socials. So, the

Instagram and the Facebook are mog_i_.ie

and start spreading the word about it. I

I feel that things will happen or

organically then if if the reach of the

socials goes to a certain level where

something like a Patreon becomes

feasible to advertise through the

socials. That's really where where I'm

at now. So it's um before I make the big

jump into becoming a real boy. H if

people if people can just kind of go

onto the website, check it out. I mean

like the level of support I got at Gale

Con was amazing. People were saying

people were coming up saying thank you

so much for doing this and that was

quite heartwarming. People were coming

up saying this is amazing. is a great

idea. So that level of support I always

appreciate it. But following the socials

and promoting the socials and spreading

the awareness of the museum at this

point in time is as much as I can ask

for people until I kind of get the

foundation of the company, whatever

format that takes and foundation of the

funding model in place, which I'm still

kind of not struggling with, but trying

to see what the best and fairest and

most equitable option is for both the

person donating and myself. One of the

things I um I'm very much focused on is

the donation form has a part in in it

which says if the museum stops existing

for whatever reason, what do you want

done with your donation?

>> So, um and we'll try our best. Do you

want to send to another museum? Do you

want to go back to your state? What do

you want done? That's important to me

because gamers like stuff.

>> Yeah,

>> we like our games. So if somebody is

donating to the museum while they're

vesting it in the museum, I would like

to as best as possible if the museum

ends or what for whatever reason, I

would like as much as possible to honor

their wishes for their donation. So

that's important to me as well.

>> So you know people are welcome to

obviously donate items. I mean they're

always welcome to do that.

>> Although of course you know our our hope

and and and is that the museum will go

on and on and on

>> for sure. Absolutely. and and you know

that's certainly the intention but at

the moment I think the most useful pe

thing people can do for me is to to to

promote the socials and to circulate it

and to to check out the website because

you know they're on on on a base crude

level they're monetizable

but um on a more important level it's

spreading the awareness of that it

exists that it's out there um uh and

what I'm trying to do um and I think

that if people can do that at this point

that would be deeply appreciated

>> right So, so, so folks, go to mogi.ie,

spread this, spread the word in the

socials, get the word out there, and um

if you actually get a chance to

physically go, please do.

>> It's in Kani County Kerry in the

southwest of Ireland. Big tourist town.

Lots of great food places, lots of great

bars, h which and and when you guys do

come, which I hope you will, um I shall

certainly show you some of the or the

the one strange alternative bar that I

I've DJed in on occasion. Um I mean it's

it's a hardcore dive bar in in in some

ways, but it's proper like it's proper,

you know, 80s goth alternative rock

music times.

>> And Belgian beer.

>> Okay.

>> Nice. Yeah, Belgian beer. I I I love a

good Belgian triple.

>> Yeah.

>> There you go.

>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Because as unlike

Peter, I like good beer. I like good

beer. I like good beer, too.

>> You like grass.

>> I like all kinds of beer, man.

>> Life's too short for bad beer, bad

whiskey, and bad coffee.

>> Dude, I I every time I went to Germany,

man, that's all I drank was, you know,

double boach vice beer. And, you know,

>> I I will always give give Peter [ __ ] for

the IPAs. It's only because I'm in the

minority because everybody likes IPAs

here. I'm just I like it. I like all

kinds of beer.

>> It's a big dude. I mean, you know, when

I was over my first Gen Con, some of the

guys um brought me to an Irish bar just

for the to take the piss and I was

going, "Really, lad? Seriously? Bringing

me to Irish bar?" And um just watching

them pour Guinness was just

I I will say this. I It was It was eye

opening for me because having never been

to Ireland before, having only had

Guinness in the United States, I was

like, "What's the big deal?" It's it's

day, right? I

>> what you have what you have in the Irish

state in the in the states is not

Guinness. It's like the distance it's

like instant coffee. It's a it's a

coffee. It's a Guinness flavored drink.

>> I gu I love I love a good stout, right?

I mean that's mostly what I drink is

stout. And so I have Guinness and I'm

like in America it's it's it's weak.

It's flavorless. It's nothing. I get to

Ireland. I'm like

>> it's a meal.

>> Yeah.

>> It's great. It's so good. I had no idea.

So I apologize to the entire

>> you you will only you will only get real

Guinness in Ireland.

>> The gravediggers Derek just Derek

mentioned a pub there called the

Gravediggers. Yeah that that's I think I

think I'm probably right Derek in saying

that's probably the best Guinness in

Dublin if not Ireland.

>> All right. Gravediggers it is. All

right. What neighbor is it in?

>> Uh it's Dublin. I mean it's it's it's a

small city. You you could walk it's

Yeah. Yeah. You could walk

>> we we we were staying in the Liberties

and we could pretty much walk everywhere

from there.

>> Right. I mean like you can drive one end

of Ireland to the other end of Ireland

in 8 hours.

>> You know Dublin's a tiny part of that.

You could walk around Dublin in a day.

>> Yeah.

>> It's not far. So you know what

neighborhood? Dublin.

>> Nice. Nice.

>> No, it's close enough to where the con

is. So

>> So uh we've run pretty long tonight.

It's late for you. Thank you so much for

staying up late all of this.

>> Oh, thank you for having me. Really

appreciate it.

>> Can't wait to see you again in a few

months when we're back. it

>> and uh everybody please go to mgi.ie and

support the museum.

>> Thank you very much. Thanks for having

me.

>> This has been Tabletop Weekly number 68.

Next week is going to be pretty nice.

>> Y

>> and uh follow us on the places,

subscribe to the things, like the stuff,

review the things, help us out, all the

usual stuff. We'll see you next week.

Thanks everybody and good night.