$8B Investor: The Only Career Move AI Can't Replace | Bill Gurley

The thing to do right now is to run as fast as you can.

>> This is Bill Gurley, the legend who backed Uber and Zillow, who's lived through every major tech cycle for over 25 years. And he says this one is

25 years. And he says this one is different.

>> There is a so much disruption coming from this new technology that if you don't take control of your own career path, you're likely at risk. We did a survey where we asked people if you could go back in time and start your

career over again, would you do something different? And six out of 10

something different? And six out of 10 said yes.

>> Before AI, the wrong career choice cost you years. With AI, the cost becomes

you years. With AI, the cost becomes colossal. We have this window

colossal. We have this window opportunity that's closing. So, we

should be working really, really hard right now to grasp this opportunity.

>> How much time do we have?

>> Like I would warn all of your listeners that >> Bill, welcome to Silicon Valley Girl.

>> Thanks for having me on. Greatly

appreciate it.

>> Thank you. I had a question planned, but there's news uh that just came out.

>> Oh, no.

>> Block, the parent company that Jack Dorsey is laying off nearly half of its staff in deliberate and bold embrace of AI.

>> Yeah.

>> Should people be scared?

>> Well, I'm going to say yes, but I'm going to qualify it a little bit. And

the AI tools are out there. They've been

out there for two or three years now.

They're not going to be put back in the box. They're not going to go away. My

box. They're not going to go away. My

advice, which is very straightforward for anyone in any field, to protect yourself against AI, be the most AI

enabled version of yourself possible and know what it's possible of in your field. Know the edge of what it's

field. Know the edge of what it's possible of in your field. um use it as much as you possibly can because one thing I've learned just in my own endeavors that the the types of prompts

that you think of giving it increase the more you use it like you start to understand what it's capable of and so any lack of leaning into it means you're getting further behind against people

that are that that are it's new in that it's hitting white collar workers which I think people had viewed those jobs as safe um which may have been a mistake

And and look, if if you've been replaced, I would really, and this gets into this new book I'm releasing, I would ask yourself, is that the role you

really loved and wanted to be in? And if

not, maybe this is an opportunity for you to go find that.

>> Okay. So, yeah, we're going to see a lot of this type of news. You said that playing it safe, and you mentioned safe jobs. We considered them safe. We

jobs. We considered them safe. We

thought intelligence is something that's going to uh get us through life. Um, you

say safe is now the highest risk move.

Can you explain?

>> I think the unfortunate reality is that many adviserss and counselors and parents push people towards jobs that they thought of as safe. And the reason I say it's unfortunate isn't because of

AI. If you're unfulfilled at work,

AI. If you're unfulfilled at work, there's a 2023 Gallup poll study that came out and said over 50% of people aren't actively engaged at work. And the

number that qualifies engaged is like 23%. So if you're in these roles you

23%. So if you're in these roles you don't really care that much about and you're not pushing yourself to improve, you're kind of a sit and duck anyway like for these things. And I personally

believe that all those parents were quite well-intentioned and very um worried about the economic stability and viability of their

children's lives. But the truth of the

children's lives. But the truth of the matter is you only get one shot at this life. If you can find something that

life. If you can find something that you're just insanely curious about, you're going to differentiate yourself so much greater than everyone that's around you. I think in many aspects of

around you. I think in many aspects of life, um the the economic part comes along if you're really great at what you do.

>> Can you can you give me three traits of a person who doesn't play it safe? What

do they do daily?

>> Well, first of all, I think having one the I think the the number one reason I wrote this book was to give permission.

give people permission to chase a job they might not have thought was either possible or that they might have thought someone would try and talk them out of.

And there's examples in the book of that. Um Danny Meyer, who's a famous

that. Um Danny Meyer, who's a famous restaurant tour in New York and the man that started Shake Shack, um his uncle told him, "You should go be a restaurant

tour." But he was on a path polyai major

tour." But he was on a path polyai major salesman taking the LSAT gonna go be a lawyer. and his father had had some

lawyer. and his father had had some problems with economic trouble in businesses related to restaurants and it pushed him away from it. His uncle is the one that kind of brought him back.

Um but his uncle told him, you know, all you do all weekend long is search for the best restaurants and he even journaled. Apparently since he was a

journaled. Apparently since he was a kid, he journaled about restaurants, but he had never given himself the permission to think of it as a career and go after it. And the reason you're more protected is if you adore

something, you're just constantly learning for free.

>> Yeah.

>> Like you're not spending like the second principle in the book is hone your craft. And I talk about continuous

your craft. And I talk about continuous learning. And many people I think

learning. And many people I think unfortunately learn in school and they think, "Oh, I'm done now. I'll go work."

But the best are just always learning about what they do. And for the best that are hyper curious about that subject area, there's they gain energy

in absorbing that new information.

Whereas if you're forced to go to a class on something you don't like, you lose energy. It feels tedious. Yeah.

lose energy. It feels tedious. Yeah.

>> Which is a great test as to whether you're tilting against the wrong the right thing or not.

>> So basically, don't listen to everyone around you.

>> Uh >> I mean, there's extreme forms of this. I

I got to meet Rick Rubin. He said every single career decision he's made in his life, people around him told him not to do it and they were all the best decision he possibly. I mean, you can

take that to an extreme, right? Like

don't just go, you know, on quicksotic pursuits. But I think if you become 100%

pursuits. But I think if you become 100% convinced that you want to go try something and and I have test in here for whether you're really passionate at

that level, um then yeah, I think you should go try like and I think I think you'll find you're more successful and more fulfilled.

>> And I like the continuous free learning.

So you're learning not because you're required to, but because it's your passion you're >> curious about and you've met people I know that are like that. I think

everyone's met people that are like that. Silicon Valley's full of a lot of

that. Silicon Valley's full of a lot of people like that, especially about new technologies. So, you know, you read an

technologies. So, you know, you read an article about Clawbot and you just can't not, >> you know, boot one and try and figure out what it does. And and if you're that type of person, you're in the right

lane. Like like you're so fascinated by

lane. Like like you're so fascinated by the subject that you have to know what's on the edge.

>> Yeah.

>> And by the way, it's interesting to think about the edge as a place that's safe from AI. So AI and large language models are recording like all the best

practices that have been written down, but the stuff that's on the edge that's that's being discovered today is not in the models. And so if you're

the models. And so if you're >> competing by being a person who has that knowledge in any field that hasn't been written down yet, you're you're out in front of what these models are capable

of.

>> Yeah. And three, try new things. Yes. I

feel like >> Yeah. We talk about AI tools constantly,

>> Yeah. We talk about AI tools constantly, but honestly, most of us don't feel the real value until we see it applied to something very, very specific that

changes everything. Something we

changes everything. Something we actually do every day. So, let's talk about outreach. If you're a creator, you

about outreach. If you're a creator, you need brand deals. If you're in sales, you need leads. If you're a founder, you need investors, partners, customers. And

right now, done properly, LinkedIn outreach takes 10 to 15 hours a week.

every single week. This is exactly where AI changes the math. And Linked Helper is the concrete example I want to show you. Most tools are cloud-based.

you. Most tools are cloud-based.

LinkedIn flags them very fast. This one

is desktop native. It runs through a real browser, mimics actual human behavior. That's the only way to scale

behavior. That's the only way to scale this safely in 2026. But what I find the most interesting is what happens when you connect it to an AI layer and an N

claude and instead of sending the same message to 500 people, it reads each person's bio, writes something specific to them. That level of personalization

to them. That level of personalization at scale wasn't physically possible a year ago. $825

year ago. $825 per month, you get scaled outreach. And

instead of your team spending 10 hours a week on manual clicking, they're spending it on work that actually moves the needle and requires creativity. This

is exactly what Bill was talking about.

AI as a jetpack, not a replacement. You

still build the relationships. You just

don't waste the hours getting to them.

Setup guide and templates are in the description with the free trial available. All right, let's get back to

available. All right, let's get back to the interview with Bill. Since you've

been investing for a while, I know you recently stopped, but >> what benchmark VC will consider not playing it safe when looking at a founder?

>> Well, actually, I think that the venture industry at large has has learned that that you would never um have a a mindset

of safety around choosing a founder. I I

think the the best and the brightest um are very independently minded. um they

think outside of the box naturally. Um I

think if anyone feels some of them are so dogmatically determined that they they might come across as as a bit, you know, crazy actually.

>> And I think I I'm not the only one that would say this. I think if you go study what what venture capitalists have written, there's a there's there's almost a search for that type of persona. And it goes back to like the

persona. And it goes back to like the Steve Job ad about the crazy ones. You

know, >> it feels like everyone right now should be adopting this crazy mindset to succeed in this world because it you're becoming the entrepreneur in your life, right?

>> Yeah. There there's a I think that's a great way of saying it. There is a um in especially in certain fields there is a so much disruption coming from this new

technology that if you don't take control of your your own career path, then you're you're likely at risk. And I

I' I've often said if you're high agency, if you're a high agency individual who's who has confidence about driving their own career path,

these tools are actually a jetpack. Like

you, if you if you want to proactively learn, there's been no time in the history of the world where you can learn faster. And you know, it's it's AI, but

faster. And you know, it's it's AI, but it's also podcasts like the stuff you do. Um there's interviews all over

do. Um there's interviews all over YouTube. like you can learn faster than

YouTube. like you can learn faster than ever before. But if you're if you're

ever before. But if you're if you're This is part of why I um react poorly to the AI anxiety because that might freeze you and then you're not like like the

thing to do right now is to run as fast as you can.

>> Yeah. But I also wanted to uh dig deeper into anxiety because you said something that gives me a lot of anxiety.

Sometimes I scroll and I hear people including you say we have this window opportunity that's closing so we should be working really really hard right now.

>> Yeah.

>> To grasp this opportunity. Can you

elaborate on that? How much time we have? How much should we be working?

have? How much should we be working?

>> Well, I don't think I don't think the window's necessarily closing. I just

think that this tool kind of came at us so fast and it's capable of so many different things that it's it really behooves any individual to figure out

what it's capable of in their industry in their role and and once again to be the person in the organization who knows the most about that and what's possible.

>> But do you think we might only have like a couple years?

>> I don't believe in I I'm I'm not a big fan of these dystopian narratives.

There's some interesting research you could go look up that the the uh the anxiet this dystopian anxiety is like five times higher in the US than in China.

>> Oh, really?

>> Yeah. I think part of the problem and I I don't fully understand the motivation, but some of like Daario's the biggest doomer of all and he's got the microphone all the time.

>> Yeah.

>> And it's kind of weird and I don't think it's healthy for all the reasons we already discussed. Yeah.

already discussed. Yeah.

>> So, I wish I wish I wish that weren't happening.

>> But maybe also sometimes when I see those headlines, I'm like, maybe I should double down, work more, why it's also it has a positive angle to it, right?

>> It it could it could spur people into action. It could, but but but it also

action. It could, but but but it also could freeze them, which which we already discussed.

>> Totally. And something else that you said that unlearning what made you successful before is really important.

How do you So, for me, for example, I'm a very hardworking person. I would say yes to every brand deal because I'm used to it.

>> And I realized that probably, but I'm not sure. Probably the next stage of my

not sure. Probably the next stage of my growth will happen when I learn how to say no.

>> Yeah.

>> How do you decide and how do you actually do it? How do you unlearn?

>> There's a great quote uh strong opinions loosely held. And I I really love that

loosely held. And I I really love that that idea. So if you don't have strong

that idea. So if you don't have strong opinions, it's very difficult to actually get out there and run every day and and accomplish things. But don't

don't view any of them as sacred. Like

don't think of anything as hard and fast and might never change. And I think if you develop the habit of being a continuous learner and know that there's

a risk of this thing, then you're you probably are best prepared to know when to let go of something. I know that may may not be definitive, but like I think I think awareness that it could be a

problem is probably the most helpful thing possible.

>> Yeah. So when you start noticing it's actually in your way.

>> Yeah.

>> So in your book uh you talked about six principles uh chase your curiosity. And

this is where I've paused because I'm like okay I'm curious about so many things. There's this hype and that hype.

things. There's this hype and that hype.

I want to study this and do this. How do

you pick out curiosity that then that you can push for for years and it becomes your career?

>> Yeah, there's a whole bunch that chapter that you mentioned, chase your curiosity, I I went out and studied all the best practices in the field and there's like 10 different exercises you can run to try that I've borrowed from

these other great people that have done the research. Um, you know, hobbies are

the research. Um, you know, hobbies are a big one. There's a lot of stories in the book of people that turned hobbies into careers and became very successful.

like if there's this thing that you're doing in your spare time at home. When I

was an engineer for for two and a half years, um I read this book, One Up on Wall Street by Peter Lynch, and I started studying stocks and trading stocks when I got home at night. I

didn't say to myself, "Oh, maybe that's a sign, but it was, right?" And I ended up going to work on Wall Street. Like,

and so look look out for for whatever it is that fascinates you. um don't feel stuck like or don't feel like you have to have an answer to the question. Some

of these people um didn't find their perfect fit until they're 30 or 40. And

so get as many shots on goal like it's fine to take a job where you don't know if that's it. And but ask wake up and ask yourself every year or so, is this it? Is this what I want to do the rest

it? Is this what I want to do the rest of my life? I had a mental exercise that I did in my first two stops in my career where I at at a couple years in I said

do I see myself doing this 30 years from now and how do I feel about that?

>> Just a kind of a reflection and in the first two cases I got to a place where I immediately knew the answer was no.

>> I love that question >> and then you start looking for something else. Bezos had a similar thing. He

else. Bezos had a similar thing. He

called the regret minimization framework where he said, "Imagine your 80-year-old self giving you advice on helping with a a career choice."

>> Yeah.

>> And they're similar in some ways. You're

just reflecting over time.

>> Yeah. And when you study those people who are not happy with their jobs, apparently it's six out of 10, right?

What do you think was the number one mistake that they made? Were they

chasing money? I also write a newsletter where I go deeper on AI tools that I use, career strategies, and things I can't fit into a 16-minute podcast. It's

free. Link is in the description.

>> I think so. I mean, chasing money or or just doing like like we we actually we did a survey where we asked people if you could go back in time and start your career over again, would you do

something different? And six out of 10

something different? And six out of 10 said yes. And then we would ask them

said yes. And then we would ask them what did you use in the decision-m and you know it might be you're at college and a professor tells you oh you should go into this cuz you made an A on a

accounting exam or something or or your parents there's certain cultures where parents like you got to be a doctor you got to be a lawyer and you end up in that path like there's a bunch of different ways you could end up in a

pathway where it wasn't an exercise of you saying what is it that I would love to spend my life doing.

>> Yeah. And so there's a whole I think many of these parents and counselors are very well-intentioned. I don't think

very well-intentioned. I don't think they're out to to make a mistake. A lot

of them are worried about the economic stability of the child. If you as you become a parent, like it's this thing that you can't really get out of your head.

>> So are there any jobs that you would name like top three jobs that are AI resistant and top three jobs that won't make it? Well, the jobs that that seem

make it? Well, the jobs that that seem to me the earliest uh threats are ones where so the large language model is really good at language and so

translation parallegals like these >> you know I started with language that was my whole career.

>> Yeah. I mean those things are are really you know we're just organizing text in a different way. Um that those are those

different way. Um that those are those are already it's already happening.

>> Yeah. You know, I think some of the jobs that I have this interesting theory where almost any job you could think of it as being an artisan. We all think of Michelangelo as an artisan and we

probably think of a great athlete as an artisan, but do you think of a lawyer that way or do you think of and I would say the best in those fields? Probably

probably are. And so what is it they do?

um they understand nuance in their field quite a bit and I think AI is not particularly good at nuance. Um a lot of people have a theory that that I think is reasonable that that human

relationships will matter way more. So

do you have a strong peer network? Do

you have a strong mentor network? Do you

have a strong network in general of people who come to you or know you or what you're capable of? Um that that I think that's super helpful.

>> Any other markers that you think are dying? um dying. Um well, I mean coding

dying? um dying. Um well, I mean coding is one where there's a lot of questions that are out there and I think once again, you know, the thing about code is it's actually a stricter, more

constrained version of language than language itself.

>> Right?

>> So, do you think we'll need less coders?

Certainly if you were the person who was just grinding writing out code, if you were the person that understood, you know, structurally how one algorithm is better than the other or how to reduce

code to make something more efficient, like those things I think will still be valuable. But but I would go back to

valuable. But but I would go back to saying the best way to be a software engineer in AI world is to be the one that knows how all the new AI tools

work. like to be the person in your or

work. like to be the person in your or that's leaning into them, not out. Like

you're if you're a farmer with a tractor and a drone thing and all this stuff, you're going to run over a farmer with a hoe and a and a donkey, right? You're

just going to blow them away. And so you have to think that way about these tools. This one came at us fast, I

tools. This one came at us fast, I admit. Um but you have to you have to

admit. Um but you have to you have to roll around in it.

>> Uh let's talk about the tools. You said

at the beginning of our podcast, become the best AI enabled version of yourself.

>> Can you talk about the setup because we all we're all using Chad GPT for search?

Uh we use Nana Banana to generate images. We do basic stuff, right? We

images. We do basic stuff, right? We

maybe plan our trips. What is the next step? What should people be doing to

step? What should people be doing to advance their setup?

>> Even like when I come on a podcast, I can say I'm going to go see this person do this podcast and we're going to talk about the book. What questions should I anticipate? And it's like this is my

anticipate? And it's like this is my like the more you play with it, the more you think about what's possible to do.

And and I was I was at NYU yesterday and and the students were asking questions at the end. And like half the questions they ask, I'd be like, "Well, you could ask me that, but I'd probably put that

in the chat GBT." Like I just they don't think like people don't realize how much you can lean on it.

>> And that's where I think the more you roll around on it, the more you start to use it. And I've been invited to to go

use it. And I've been invited to to go give a TED talk. So I have a new one on that. And

that. And >> Oh, are you going to go in April? I'll

be there, too. I'll watch your talk.

>> All right. And and I'm like re you can research and prototype and ideulate like simultaneously. I came up with a new

simultaneously. I came up with a new theme last night. Kicked off something this morning because I wanted it to find like 20 examples of this idea I had and wanted to talk about to to make it better.

>> And I haven't looked at the results yet, but I will later. So, so you're basically living in in Cloud Project.

>> Yeah, I mean I those were chat GBT, but yeah, but you could. Yeah, I mean you're probably better to try them all.

>> What is something that you do with AI now that you've done manually before and now you can never do it manually?

>> Almost any information query whatsoever?

Like it just seems easier than than looking it up. And even like compared to a Wikipedia search or something like you can just get straight to the information versus like scrolling through this

thing. Yeah,

thing. Yeah, >> I haven't set up a Clawbot yet or started getting it to do agendic work on my behalf. I probably should.

my behalf. I probably should.

>> Part of raising my hand and and stepping away from VC is is because I grew tired of like that constant FOMO that's required to be successful.

>> Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's that's that's a strong one. Le let's talk about uh just

strong one. Le let's talk about uh just in general for for people who are building since you were investing in them. Do you think software is dead?

them. Do you think software is dead?

>> I don't.

>> Why?

>> Um there are certain and and look I think there are certain types of software that may be if once again if if all the software did was reorient text

or or you know create an image or whatever like it could be under threat.

The other thing is like quite frankly it's not really good at being a database and it's not great at math yet and there's new techniques where they're getting it to write code but how many

times have you done a query where there's an error and once again depending on the type of software you wouldn't want it writing errors into your CRM >> absolutely sometimes I think about the

future where now I mostly talk to my claw or ch chat GPT what if I just ask it to create an app for me to solve some particular problem and I don't need to install any apps. Think about consumer

apps, right? I don't know of like a

apps, right? I don't know of like a fitness tracker, language learning, right? Examp SAT was just released on

right? Examp SAT was just released on Gemini. So, I'm thinking like there's

Gemini. So, I'm thinking like there's this whole market that's probably going to disappear.

>> That could be true. That could be right.

But that but that's happened in the past. There used to be software

past. There used to be software companies that had massive market share that don't exist anymore. So, yeah.

>> How should entrepreneurs be thinking about what they're building? Every great

entrepreneur recognizes that new technology waves create a ton of opportunity. And one of the reasons

opportunity. And one of the reasons Silicon Valley gets so excited when these waves happen, I mean, every single venture capitalist I'm sure that you talk to, all they want to talk about is AI, right? They don't I think they've

AI, right? They don't I think they've forgotten about the companies they invested in that aren't AI. That's all

they want to talk about. And the reason they have so much attention to it is because the time when new companies, you know, step around and take market share

for incumbents are on these transitions and everyone knows it. And so I'm going to sound so redundant, but you got to get out there and play with it. Like I

would I would warn um all of your listeners that it's very hard right now to raise venture capital for noni plays.

I like to separate whether you're judging that from the reality. Go back

to this circle of influence thing. The

reality is most venture capitalists won't take a meeting with a nonAI company right now. Now, you could decide I'm I'm going to do it any I think complaining about that useless because

it is the reality. Um you could decide, well, I'm it'd be a great time to bootstrap one of those companies because the VCs aren't paying attention. I think

that's a reasonable, you know, response to that, but you need to be aware of that. Yeah.

that. Yeah.

>> Like otherwise you're going to get very disappointed when you go out and try and raise money.

>> Yeah. And you you left the VC world, you know, right at the, you know, it's it's all hyped up right now. Everything's

happening. I feel like a lot of people are like you, especially when we're talking about people who chose safer careers, right? And now they they don't

careers, right? And now they they don't know what to do and like erratic behaviors and everything. And I I really like that you said in your book, you need to and something you keep bringing up in this interview, you should be

surrounding yourself with the right people, with the right news that you're consuming to stay calm and focused and motivated. Any tips on surrounding

motivated. Any tips on surrounding yourself with mentors?

>> Yes. Well, mentors and I have another chapter on peers, but but let let's take mentors first. I think most people if

mentors first. I think most people if you if you're in if you're in the mentor game, most people shoot too high and they go try and get someone who's not going to say yes to spend five minutes

with them. And and I I I would really

with them. And and I I I would really caution against that type of activity.

And I would instead do two different things. Take advantage of all this

things. Take advantage of all this incredible free information that's out there and build a list of what I would call aspirational mentors. So these are

people you admire in your field and just study them like create a Google doc I don't care what like and you know find the podcast they're on um find books

find YouTube interviews ask AI about them and just build like a digital profile of each one of them and be a fanboy the way someone might be of

LeBron James right and I think that exercise will give you more confidence it'll give you um you it also test whether this is the thing you're curious about or not. If that sounds tedious

what I just described this you're not even >> I think it's it sounds really exciting that I'm thinking you can do this for your whole like dream career right or you like I'm trying to be this here here

are the people that are already doing this here's I don't know whatever my dream house >> yeah Danny Meyer did this like when he when he decided he was going to go be a restaurant tour he built these 10

profiles of these people and like I think it I think that exercise of ruminating in That is super helpful. It

makes you gives you confidence that it that it's achievable. It helps. It's

disinhibiting that this may be a tough way to go. And then on on real mentors, just come down the ladder a couple rungs. If you're the first person that

rungs. If you're the first person that calls someone and asks them to be a mentor and no one else has asked them that before, they're going to be flattered that you recognized who they were.

>> But how do you ask them? You're like

reach out to them and say like, "Hey, could you be my mentor?" Or you ask a specific question.

>> Well, there's some nuance to that as well. I wouldn't walk up to someone like

well. I wouldn't walk up to someone like Will you be my mentor?

That's a lot of weight. Yeah. I think

you approach people with recognition of who they are and an authenticity.

I wouldn't be overly like programmed as you go in and with it with a smaller ask to start the relationship. Hey, I'm

working on this problem. You know,

there's these two paths. I'm sure you've thought about this before. Any advice on what I should do?

>> Yeah. And uh when you mentioned that a lot of people ask you things they could ask Chad GPT I'm thinking now before asking people to become your mentor and ask answer this question create a project with all their knowledge base

and ask that project >> you can you can have a virtual mentor you could tell tell AI to uh you could dump a book dump an interview dump a transcript and create a project around

an individual. Yeah

an individual. Yeah >> yeah I do that a lot. AI is my strategic partner 100%. Really really helpful. But

partner 100%. Really really helpful. But

I let let me also mention this this separate chapter on peers because this is my favorite chapter in the book and it's a human um connection that I think most people don't do. I would just

heavily encourage anybody whatever rung of the ladder you're on in your career journey. Try and find four to six

journey. Try and find four to six like-minded people on the same journey hopefully outside your organization. Um

they need to be trustworthy. They need

to be comfortable sharing and create a peer group, >> you know, and and once again, these tools are so available like you can do a WhatsApp or you could create a Google space. If you're really, you know,

space. If you're really, you know, inspired, you could do a Slack or whatever. But you create one of these

whatever. But you create one of these things where you all share ideas together and it increases the surface area for learning. It increases your mentor opportunities, your network.

You'll see more job possibilities through everybody. They'll be there for

through everybody. They'll be there for you when you're having a crappy day.

like which is really important like everyone has bad days. You might be in in a job where you don't know if it's me or the company I'm in. Like I'm having

I'm not happy here but is it is it because I don't love this career path or it's because I don't love this company.

If you have five other people that you talk to you that they may help you figure that out.

>> Yeah, I I did that as a YouTuber like having other YouTubers just brainstorm ideas in your niche. And there's a story in here about a one YouTuber named Jimmy Donaldson that did this at the end.

>> He was the one who started all of this and we just copied.

>> But he was doing the same thing.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz Yeah. I think you shared it at a conference and I thought, "Oh my god, I should be doing this, too."

>> Yes. Yes.

>> This is a very interesting time, right?

And I have two kids, a six-year-old and a four-year-old. I was raised uh by my

a four-year-old. I was raised uh by my Soviet parents telling me you have to study, study, and study. That's the only way to grow. That's the only way to build a sustainable life. So, I was

studying from 8:30 a.m. to 8:30 p.m.

>> Yeah.

>> Will this still apply in today's world to our kids or should I be teaching them something completely different?

>> Well, I think the culture you came from is a little different than than what's true here. Um, but I still think I think

true here. Um, but I still think I think the thing that's happened in North America, which is a version of that, is it's become so hard to get into universities here, that starting in the

sixth grade, parents are worried about, Jonathan Height calls it the resume arms race. You're worried about them getting

race. You're worried about them getting into college. So, you want

into college. So, you want >> No, no, sixth grade foury old. So, you

start worrying about the college application. And here, here instead, I

application. And here, here instead, I think it might be better if they just studied 12 hours instead. here. You add

in chess lessons, lacrosse lessons, like volunteering at the SPCA. You're like,

and these kids are so scheduled like and I I what I fear is that they get to the end of the college and they're just burned out like because they've been to

Angela Duckworth says they've been taught to persevere like like we've trained.

>> Isn't it good? Um, the area where it might not be good is if they never take a breath to explore and figure out what they want to do. It used to be in the US college system, they wouldn't allow you to pick a major until the end of your

sophomore year. Now, at many schools,

sophomore year. Now, at many schools, you have to apply to the major as part of the application process.

>> And so, we're we're asking people to specialize early and earlier, and then maybe they never had a chance to really figure out what it is they enjoy. and

they might have fallen into one of those pathways for random reasons like we talked about before.

>> So what would be your advice to modern parents?

>> Take a deep deep breath >> and create as much opportunity for exploration as possible >> for the kids. Just expose them to a lot

of different things and try and get a sense of genuine interest on their part.

>> Yeah.

>> You know. Yeah.

>> Love it.

>> Okay. Someone's watching right now. uh

they're in job they don't love but they're afraid to make a move. What is

one thing they should do this week?

>> I think you can roleplay this new path you might go towards and part of this I'm borrowing from a professor at Stanford Dave Evans. He talks about like battlecarding scenarios. So the same

battlecarding scenarios. So the same exercise we said where you could go study this person. You could say, "Okay, I'm gonna be be out of here within six

months." And create a digital like role

months." And create a digital like role play of, "Okay, what am I gonna go do?"

And you could do that for maybe three different directions, right? And roll

around in it like scenario plan, >> right? What is what is the first and

>> right? What is what is the first and once again, you know, an AI tool could help you do this. Okay, I would like to repot myself into this career within six months. What should the first week look

months. What should the first week look like? It'll give you something. It'll

like? It'll give you something. It'll

it'll spit something out and and you may disagree with that. You may reorganize it, but the thought process of going through what it might look like will help you versus just being frozen, right?

>> Yeah. And the power is coming back to it every single week with new data like I tried this. Here's how it works. And if

tried this. Here's how it works. And if

you did the battle card of like three different ones, you know, I think you'll start as you fill in the details, >> you'll start to have a sense of which one you prefer,

>> whereas it may just be too abstract at the high level.

>> Thank you so much. I think it was very useful and very practical and I encourage everyone to read your book and we show it >> running down a dream.

>> Love it. I love the name.

>> Thank you so much for having me on.

>> Thank you so much. If you enjoyed this episode on the future of work, you're going to love my recent conversation with the CEO of LinkedIn. We went deep

on the exact same topic. Link is right below. Check it out and I'll see you in

below. Check it out and I'll see you in the next