ADHD pt 1 | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]

hey everybody in today's episode and in

part two uh we talk very frankly about

ADHD and all that that means over the

lifetime of a person who has it so if

you're a parent with a kiddo who has

ADHD maybe considering listening by

yourself first before you share it with

them just a thought hope you enjoy these

episodes welcome to stuff you should

know a production of iHeart Radio

hey and welcome to the podcast I'm Josh

Clark and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant

and there's Jerry Jerome Roland you put

the three of us together and you got

yourself a podcast called Stu you should

know that's right and this is the uh

sort of long simmering we've had it on

the back burner down to the as low as it

can summer for many many months the ADHD

what is now going to be a two-part

episode because we've had uh I mean not

that's not why we're splitting it up but

we have had a lot of requests for this

over the years and uh it's you know it's

big there could certainly be more than

two episodes and as much as I wanted to

try and split this up into ad and HD for

fun and it just kind of doesn't work

that way so we're just GNA split it up

into two parts I think you're more

thinking of AC DC oh okay that's that's

what I think it is yeah I got you no

Chuck instead today we're talking about

ADHD which uh stands for attention

deficit hyperactivity disorder kind of

wordy but it really does get the point

across because with ADHD I'm sure a lot

of people are familiar with it

especially the people who requested it

um it's a uh it I'm not exactly sure

exactly what kind of disorder it is

whether it's a mental disorder a

personality disorder an externalizing

disorder there's actually a lot of

debate about it but essentially it's

where people have a lot of trouble

paying attention sitting still focusing

and a bunch of other stuff that we'll

talk about and you put it all together

and it can make life kind of hard to

navigate um and at first we'll talk

about it a lot more but kids it used to

be like little boys fidgeting

essentially was what ADHD or add at the

time was considered but over time it's

really kind of expanded we've realized

way more girls have it than we thought

before and we've also come to realize

that adults have it too and that's a I

mean it's it's a really big huge

disorder and a lot of people just kind

of use it as shorthand like you know oh

I forgot my keys it's my ADHD or

something like that but the more you

know about it the more you realize it's

a genuinely debilitating disorder that

people have yeah and sometimes you may

lose your keys it's true that is a big

part of it I mean they're not wrong

about that one for sure so uh you know

when it comes to something like this

that is only in I mean honestly in the

last like 25ish years really come more

into Focus as far as our understanding

of it uh when you look back through

medical and you know psychiatric

literature you're going to see it pop up

they just didn't know what it was at the

time and in this case you can probably

go back all the way to the 18th century

um with a Scottish physician named sir

Alexander uh kryon who in his 1789 book

talked about children who were unable

ble to focus uh on one thing at a time

and you know it's it's one of those

clear cases kind of like oh well it was

probably somebody with ADHD it is not

just a modern condition because kids eat

too much sugar and they have screens in

their lives um screens can we'll talk

about that can certainly you know make

things worse but it's it's not like oh

because people are so busy and there's

too many distractions these days and

back in the olden times when there were

no distractions people didn't suffer

from something like this it's just not

true when you hear about some of these

old

descriptions yeah no not at all and the

our understanding of it has progressed

like over the centuries but it is

interesting that it started in the 18th

century because I mean kryon nailed it

on the head like he's like there's

definitely something here uh and I guess

it just kind of stayed there for a

little while until 1902 when a

pediatrician from the UK named Sir

George Frederick still um ironically

yeah I thought that too he described

children who had a defect of moral

control which is essentially saying that

these are kids who have trouble um

delaying

gratification um not thinking about

negative conqu consequences when they

carry out actions um and there that's

impulsivity that's what we call it today

is impulsivity and that's what still was

essentially describing at the time uh

yeah in the 30s uh some more descriptors

came along from uh the courtesy of some

German Physicians named France Kramer

and Hans pno uh in this case talking

about more of the hyperactivity side of

things mhm and then about 5 years after

that still in the 1930s in 1937 a big um

I guess breakthrough came along when a

uh doctor for the Road Island facility

for children with neurological problems

named Charles Bradley was doing an

experiment where he was doing uh imaging

test on the brain uh and specifically in

this case with kids he was draining um

some brain or some fluid around the

brain rather gave the kids headaches he

treated them with um benzidine which is

an amphetamine and what he found out was

wow this doesn't seem to make any

intuitive sense but giving these

children uh

amphetamines is at least for about half

of them made them less fidgety and more

focused and all of a sudden you were

onto a pharmaceutical potential

pharmaceutical treatment yeah I mean

what a way to accidentally stumble into

that because even today we're not

exactly sure how

stimulants like take care of ADHD

symptoms we just know they really really

work luckily this doctor was like quit

complaining take some benad drain and

shut up little kids and back then the

kids

obeyed so um there was a so that was

actually kind of a diversion 1937 when

when Charles Bradley discovered this

that amphetamines treat ADHD um it

didn't like take off like wildfire

because there was interim period between

then and like the 50s where

psychiatrists and psychologists were

like all this stuff needs to just be

talked out through psychoanalysis that's

how you treat you know mental disorders

and in the 50s finally people were like

no let's let's start prescribing drugs

and one of the first companies was siba

gagi pharmaceutical company yeah I mean

you're definitely going to go out of

business if that's the name of your

pharmaceutical company but they're the

first ones who developed riddlin

and it turns out that the guy who

developed the drug Leandro

panon

panzone his wife was named Rita and he

named it after that's right lovely Rita

yeah so uh it was the first half of the

20th century um when things started to

change you know you know not I guess I

could say begin in Earnest as far as re

uh researching this kind of thing um a

lot of like Research into brain injuries

were happening at the time and they

thought that um

well hey this is what's going on um with

any kind of Developmental issue it's

it's almost certainly a brain injury uh

that can be the case for sure with all

kinds of developmental issues including

uh ADHD in this case but in the 1960s

that started to go out of favor a little

bit and they started to realize that hey

a lot of this stuff uh there are a lot

of actually distinct conditions and you

can't just lump them all in there and

say it's because a h a kid hit his head

when they were young no so uh in the

late 60s the dsm2 the SQL um introduced

a diagnosis called hyperkinetic reaction

of childhood and it's essentially ADHD

that they were talking about and this is

the first time it showed up in um

Psychiatry it's like this is actually a

thing we just aren't clear what to name

it yet clearly because we're calling it

hyperkinetic reaction of childhood yeah

and within decade and a half we finally

had it nailed down to attention deficit

disorder add which people of our age

that was what the name we were first

exposed to it was not ADHD this new

fangled version it was add and that's

the way it was and you liked it right

that's right uh add had a couple of

subtypes um depending on whether there

was hyperactivity involved but they it

wasn't like a part of the actual

definition at this point um I think

seven years later uh it finally landed

upon I guess this would be 1987 mhm I

was but a junior I'm sorry a sophomore

in high school I was 11 oh you were just

a cute little 11-year-old I was a pimp

well I didn't get pimples luckily but a

wouldbe pimply faed uh teenager when

ADHD finally rolls through the door and

um I think if you had no hyperactivity

attached at that time it could it was

called undifferentiated add right am I

saying all this right I think so yeah

yeah you totally are uh and then in the

'90s another big breakthrough came

through when they found out hey there's

a genetic component to all this um and

there are actually a lot of adults that

have this we thought kids just grew out

of this kind of thing um but now adults

are saying like when they're diagnosing

uh like gen xers basically diagnosing

their kids they're saying wait a minute

that sounds a lot like me um maybe I

have it and oh my goodness I do and that

maybe also why my kid has it yeah one of

the reasons why um they used to think it

was just a childhood disorder that you

grew out of is because the first batch

of kids with ADHD or add they weren't

followed into adulthood they stopped

studying them after they were kids so

they just didn't think about it and then

also and this is really sad if you think

about this um the as an adult as you

grow up you get so good at masking your

symptoms in order to blend into society

totally that researchers were unaware

that there was a whole group of people

with a disorder that was was just went

unrecognized because they were good at

at disguising it which is a huge part of

ADHD and it turns out um just being

neurodiverse in general yeah for sure

and we'll get to masking more uh in a

little bit but um another Revision in 94

in the DSM uh finally divided ADHD up

into three types the inattentive type uh

hyperactive impulsive type and then the

combined type which is

both yeah and that's where we are today

right

that's where we are today but you know

the more we learn I feel like every 10

years that there's another change so who

knows where it's going to stop yeah

they're just going to keep adding

letters

maybe um so I say we take a break and

come back and talk about how this whole

thing kind of works in the brain as far

as we know let's do it

[Music]

lately I've been learning some stuff

about

insomnia or

alumia how about the one on borderline

disorder better yet bir order heard that

one before but it was so nice I learned

it

twice everybody listen

up oh it's Charles and

Joshua it's stop stop stop you should

know Chuck I can't remember if I said it

already but I have ADHD myself what yeah

and then uh Jerry does too it turns out

and H this is the most amazing part of

this Jerry and I were diagnosed within

like a week of each other and we both

told you on the same day and you found

out that you were the only third of

stuff you should know that doesn't have

ADHD I know and I was like oh this is

great to know here 15 years into our

career yeah I'm surrounded I'm

surrounded but you guys are both

wonderful and understanding this stuff

helps everybody understand things

because as you'll see throughout this

episode um ADHD affects you it affects

your your parents your loved ones your

partners your business partners and um I

think the more people understand all

this stuff the more empathy we can all

have for each other the s like a really

wordy children's book about ADHD yeah

not a not a kids book writer even though

we have a kids book exactly that still

holds true um so Chuck uh there's like

it's clear like you said they have a

genetic or they found a genetic

component to this whole thing they've

also found that there are definite

differences in brain structure yeah uh

with people who have ADHD the brains are

just simply physically different um one

of the things is that they're smaller

places like they have less volume maybe

some parts are thinner some parts may be

thicker and it's really important to

point out that brain size is not

relative to intelligence so if your

brain smaller doesn't mean like you

aren't intelligent and maybe here's a

really good place to point out that one

of the things I think is kind of

overlooked about people with ADHD is

they have the same um thoughts and

feelings and emotions that anybody else

does uh it's just that they have trouble

regulating those emotions and regulating

those behaviors that the same impulses

that everybody else gets can slip

through with a person with ADHD that

that damper that's like well I can't do

that because it's socially unacceptable

that neurotypical people have is kind of

absent for the most part in people with

ADHD unless they're really paying

attention and trying to hold it back yes

absolutely um and what's you know

fascinating is that uh they can detect

some of these different is like you know

with brain scans physical differences as

early as age four yeah um which you know

it suggests at least that like this is

innate like you you were probably born

with this uh if you can be you know four

years old and detect differences and uh

brain scans um another big big one and

this is kind of the the real Crux of the

whole thing is if you were a person with

ADHD then that means that you have a

deficit of two things uh that really

make a big difference in your life

dopamine and norepinephrine uh two

things that we've talked about quite a

lot over the years um but you know we we

know what dopamine does and part of the

challenge of

ADHD um is if you're not getting a

dopamine hit and this is just a sort of

a a big generalization but I think if

you have ADHD you can probably relate

right if you if you're not getting that

hit of a dopamine which is a you know

part of Reward Center like hey you did a

a great job cleaning that room and

making that bed and just look at it um

my dopamine is hitting and I feel great

about that if you're not getting that or

that's um you know uh dampered in some

way then you're not going to be as

interested in cleaning that room or

making that bed it's it's not that your

kid doesn't care or is lazy or loves a

mess is because they literally don't get

that same reward or adults uh that same

reward that uh someone who doesn't have

that neurodiversity does and so they're

not going to be incentivized to do that

thing yeah and as we talked about in the

dopamine episode it's not like dopamine

gives you that that hit of feeling good

it's the thing that comes along with

whatever makes you feel good and says

this is important learn this and

remember this so that the next time

you're faced with cleaning a room you

can remember oh there's there's some

some good feeling at the end of this and

if you don't have that yeah there's

there's no reason whatsoever for you to

um get up and clean a room especially

there's like as we'll see there's actual

like brain function that's missing or

impaired in people with ADHD that allows

them to self arouse and be like I should

really do this I'm going to get up and

do this yeah and fatigue is another uh

sort of I guess co- symptom of ADHD

sometimes uh because maybe you don't

sleep as well maybe the hyperactivity is

just wearing you out or your anxiety

which can also come long so not only are

you not getting that dopamine hit and

and your body isn't learning and your

brain isn't learning like hey here's the

reward that comes with making that bed

um if you're fatigued at the same time

and let's say you're an adult and it's

not just like make your bed small child

if you have a huge amount of things on

your plate and you're fatigued and

you're not getting that dopamine hit it

can I'm sure feel like the weight of the

world is coming down on you and you

could go into shut down

yeah so uh one thing I saw is that there

they don't think that people with ADHD

produce less dopamine the current

understanding is that people with ADHD

have more dopamine Transporters so that

dopamine gets moved out of the brain

faster so you have less of it at any

given point in time not that you make

less of it the other one you mentioned

is norepinephrine and that's usually the

thing that allows you to kind of Rouse

yourself um and it helps you also very

importantly regulate emotion regulate

self-control regulate attention and so

those are the neurotransmitters the big

ones that definitely in some way shape

or form affect ADHD we just don't fully

understand it but one of the other big

things that has to do with the brain is

the um typically the frontal lobe or the

um frontal

cortex contains like our higher thinking

our higher behaviors and that's usually

put together in something called

executive function which is a suite of

behaviors and cognitive abilities that

essentially let us just be you know

functioning people in society as far as

the terms of society require yeah like

how you prioritize your tasks um how you

handle distractions that come your way

how you control what impulses that come

your way that may or may not distract

you from those tasks mhm um and you know

we're going to talk about I guess like

six broad executive functioning um

components and if you have

ADHD um one or all of these are going to

be dinged in some way doesn't mean you

can't you have zero executive

functioning by any means but it just

means with these six things some of them

may be worse than others because ADHD

like most things sort of exist on the

Spectrum as far as how severe it might

be for each individual

uh the first part of that executive

functioning is um working memory um of

course that's just your you know that's

your working memory it's just like

thoughts at any given moment about what

you're doing and what you are

remembering to do right you usually

think of working memory with like

remembering a phone number while you're

going to write it down you know but it

also involves everything from like

engaging in a conversation planning a

vacation like anything where you're

having to hold a bunch of thoughts like

in the front of your mind while you're

kind of working it all out that's

working memory and it's really important

and it's very frequently impaired in

people with ADHD another classic um

executive function that is essentially

Universal as far as ADHD symptoms go is

H self-restraint or inhibition control

and not just physically but also

emotionally and intentionally too like

staying in a

conversation um not blurting out

something offensive about someone's

hairstyle even though you don't mean to

hurt their feelings M it's another one

too um being on a diet and then just

being like I'm just going to eat a bunch

of cookies too who cares a lot of all of

those things have to do with inhibition

control and that's just a big part of it

yeah and you can still say like geez who

wears a mullet these days just say it

very quietly to your friend or just

think it and that's another thing too I

think that's why a lot of people who

don't have ADHD

recognize the it because they were

thinking the same thing but they know

not to say it this person says it you

know what I'm saying that's the that's

the difference yeah like if you've ever

heard anybody say something like oh I I

got no filter that person has no filter

uh that person may have ADHD is a good

chance you know or they're they're just

irresponsible one of the two yeah that's

true you can also just be a jerk uh

planning organizing and problem solving

is another big one uh if you have a goal

for work or life or whatever school um

what you usually do uh when you're

executive and

when you're an executive no when you're

when you're functioning executively uh

is you take that goal you look at it you

break it down into steps and smaller

parts uh you do an evaluation of like

what's the best way to tackle this thing

and that's a big big part of problem

solving um if that is impaired with ADHD

and you're thrown a big task or a big

work or school project it you may kind

of just freeze for a while and you know

uh you know this sounds bad but you

might just sit there and think about

something entirely different for a

little while yeah you might go to Great

Lengths to avoid that task and also not

just procrastinating but like really

genuinely having trouble focusing

because you don't know what to do you

don't know where to start yeah like you

can't do it it's not there a disinterest

or anything like that right uh another

one's decision-making which kind of ties

into that where you know you you can't

just say yes to everything that's not

how life works so you have to take into

like a account future consequences and

you have to figure out do I have time to

do all of these things and if not which

one's more important like all that goes

into decision making um and that can be

largely impaired to not just not like

necessarily all the time but you were

just kind of mentioning something called

ADHD paralysis that where like things

can get so overwhelming you cannot know

where to start you're you you know like

your boss is coming down the hall to get

this report you haven't even started on

and like you just shut down you can't

decide anything you can't really focus

on anything that's called ADHD paralysis

and that can come from having to make

decisions yeah and that's where as a

parent uh or as a partner a business

partner or life partner to someone if

you don't have that challenge that's

when you can really step up and sit down

with your kid or your friend or partner

and say all right let's sit down and

look at this uh let's talk about the

steps like maybe what a good first step

might be maybe get a little help

organizing something um those are like

to be a really active involved parent or

partner is key to uh everyone you know

doing the best they can in life yeah

totally and we'll talk more about like

what parents and like family members and

spouses and all that can do later on

down the road but that's a great that's

a great thing to hit multiple times you

know yeah uh time management is another

big one uh that kind of ties into a

little bit of the planning and

organization and stuff like that but

just being able to allocate your time

keep track of the deadlines uh it's may

seem counterintuitive but if you or a

person with ADHD uh you might do much

better with a deadline instead of some

just amorphous task that's handed to you

right uh so like knowing the deadline

may be really good for you or the

deadline may just come and go sometimes

as well yeah and it's not necessarily

because they're like I don't care about

this deadline they may have literally

forgotten about it um I read a Horror

Story Chuck about a guy with ADHD an

adult whose boss came to him and said

hey you know why don't you run Monday's

meeting I'm not going to be there and

the guy was like I knew that this was

like a step toward like getting me ready

for like the next level for a promotion

into management so he was really excited

about it and then over the weekend he

totally forgot about it when the Monday

meeting came around he sat down with

everybody else waiting for the boss

wondering where the boss was and they

all just left the meeting and went back

to work and his came and asked him how

the meeting went and he's like what are

you talking about and it finally sunk

into him like what had just happened and

think about that like he just probably

totally scuttled any chance of that

promotion yeah because he just forgot

about it and that's just something that

can happen with it that's the frequent

reason people with ADHD Miss deadlines

they just forget that they have one you

should have saved that for

Halloween that Horror Story yeah where's

the knocker didn't that just turn your

stomach it does imagining that guy for

sure uh and then the last part of

executive functioning that can be

impaired is another big one uh it's

called task shifting um and it leads

into a couple of things we're going to

talk about uh that means you get out of

your default mode uh which we'll expand

on here in a second uh and doing

something called set shifting which is

you know being able to switch from task

to task uh being flexible as you're

doing that um maybe realizing like

different tasks and different situations

require different rules uh and if you

don't have that if that's impaired you

might be really rigid in how you think

something has to be done a very black

and white thinking uh that can come

across to others as stubborn uh but in

the ADHD mine uh you just have a hard

time task shifting right exactly and

that's a huge classic one too like you

just focus on one thing or you can't

start another thing too and if you put

all that together in in life people with

ADHD um they have trouble remembering to

pay bills they forget that they have

homework they say or do inappropriate

things like not waiting for their turn

to speak um they have trouble

self-motivating staying on task they

misplace things they have false memories

which is a really big one that we'll

talk about um they they can't remember

important dates or that they're supposed

to run a meeting and another big one too

is that they'll they'll very fre

frequently ADHD causes you to walk into

a room and you have no idea what you

went in there for you knew you went in

there for something that happens to me

sometimes too like but imagine every

time yeah now I can't cuz it's it's

frustrating and it can also be

alarming yes that's another thing too is

especially as you age with ADHD you can

be like okay is this ADHD or am I

developing early on so dementia like

they there's a lot of overlap and it can

be very scary but

you also learn tricks like you just

leave the room and go back out to where

you just were and you're going to see

like a clue that that will prompt you to

remember and then you just think about

it while you're going into the room and

and then you remember it usually just

amounts to an extra trip back out of the

room and then back into it but it is

just frustrating for sure you know what

they call that in the old film Biz do

you remember a McGuffin no you go back

to one oh okay yeah that's right that's

right I remember Chad saying that he

would always pinch the bridge of his

nose saying yeah back to one just means

first position of that scene like if the

scene starts and you're in the doorway

go back to one you go back to that

doorway so maybe that's a a fun a fun

way to remember that kind of thing yeah

I love that Chuck way to go um let uh no

let's not take a break yet because I

think we should talk I mentioned uh

default mode um default mode network is

a a very big part of this uh at least

understanding of this um the the brain

Reg collectively that function when

you're just hanging out um when you're

hanging out on the couch you don't have

anything to do in the moment uh I mean

people with no children um can identify

with this maybe I can't but the times of

the day where you can just sit around

and introspect and daydream and zone out

a little bit uh that's called default

mode and when you're doing that there

are parts of your brain that become

really active and light up uh during

default mode and if you have

um if you're a neurotypical person going

between uh default mode because once you

have to kick into action mode that

default mode turns off and switching

between those uh if you're neurotypical

is you know it works as it should if you

have

ADHD and the problem is that default

mode stays on sometimes uh they've like

shown this in image brain Imaging

studies so right uh if you're doing a

task um that requires Focus your default

mode still may be on and that's active

at the same time and those two things

are not

sympatico no and like by sometimes it's

pretty much all the time like you're it

just does not shut off so that amounts

to there's a a psychiatrist named Ned

Hollowell MD um who put it as a a

persistent magnetic pull away from the

task at hand into distraction so you're

because your brain is like no no no

we're over here we're going to daydream

because you're default mode network is

on um you can't focus for long periods

on the task at hand or if you can it's a

constant struggle to resist your letting

your mind wander you have to actively

keep it focused on the thing you're

doing because your like you said the

Action Network didn't take over and the

default mode Network go down um you know

proportionately to one another now

they're just both on default Network go

down

turned into Tuk Tuk for a minute yeah

that's how Tuk Tuk says so and we'll

talk about medication in you know uh I

guess probably in part two um but uh

aside from medication if you uh are

trying to help turn that default uh mode

Network down or off uh breathing

techniques are a big part of that um

like trying to stay in the present bring

yourself back to the present through

breathing techniques and mindfulness

exercises those can go a long way yeah

for sure um do you want to take a break

and then come back and talk some more

about you know

ADHD yeah sure since we're

[Music]

here

lately about

insomnia or

Alia how about the one on borderline

disorder better yet bir order heard that

one before but it was so nice I learned

it everybody listen

up oh it's Charles and

Joshua it's St it's it's you should

not all right so uh this is a big one um

maybe one of the biggest sort of

downsides to

ADHD uh and don't worry there are some

upsides too uh cuz you know there are

some quote ADHD superpowers mhm uh here

and there that we're going to talk about

so take heart um but uh one of the

biggest drawbacks is called uh rejection

sensitive dysphoria or RSD it's a very

destructive thing if you have it it's

very destructive to people around you um

it's the basically it's basically when

any any kind of rejection or even

appearance of rejection even if it's not

rejection will trigger a very very um

intense flood of emotion that

is it almost has and can feel like it's

having and can have an actual physical

effect that is so strong um a not just a

fear of rejection just a um because no

one likes rejection but uh if you have

ADHD and RSD um anything like that can

bring a real flood of negativity around

you yeah it can be actual rejection but

it can also be something like

constructive criticism which is

important to be able to take um a

perceived slight maybe a madeup slight

um somebody's fleeting facial expression

and off-hand comment your own false

beliefs and then there's two ways

generally that a person with RSD or we

should just say ADHD will respond to

that to that perceived rejection they

can internalize where they'll just

emotionally curl up into a ball um and

just shut down or they may also lash out

and they'll have a meltdown or an

outburst or they'll become angry that's

called

externalization and so to really kind of

put it in perspective imagine either one

of those being the response that you get

when you ask someone to not leave their

dirty dishes in the sink yeah like

that's RSD that's what it's like living

with RSD that's what it's like having

with RSD and the big problem is the

whole thing is instantaneous it's not

like I'm going to have an out burst I'm

going to melt down I'm going to

emotionally ball up it just it just you

it goes from trigger to response with

nothing in between yeah and then you

know the person in your life may end up

uh even if their understanding of what's

going on may end up walking on eggshells

may not want to criticize or

constructively or otherwise anything

about that person uh in fear of like a

meltdown or or an emotional Outburst or

something like that uh because it can

you it can really disrupt like a

relationship so you know you've got one

side where someone can't help something

and you've got the other side where uh

even if that person can't help it it's

destructive to the relationship so I'm

just going to do everything I can to

avoid any sort of Confrontation yeah it

makes it really hard to have a

connection with somebody who might just

melt down at you at the slightest

provocation right yeah um and and you

said something the person can't help it

the person with RSC cannot help this

they're not being a jerk like they can't

not do this and one of the problems with

it is that it's really fleeting it's a

Hu it's like a tidal wave or getting

punched in the stomach that's what it

feels like the overwhelming emotion like

you said but that's fairly fleeting and

then that gets replaced by regret and

then feelings of Shame every time

because you're just so ashamed you you

can't control yourself right so um some

people who have RSD will become people

Pleasers where they don't share their

thoughts their true emotions their true

opinions they don't share themselves at

because what they're doing is cutting

off as much risk as possible of being

rejected and thus triggering um an a

bout of RSD yeah yeah that's a vicious

cycle it is it's and so initially they

used to think that it was comorbid with

ADHD that it was a separate thing and

it's not even recognized in the DSM yet

it's that that recently recognized but

apparently Studies have found that

essentially a 100% of people with ADHD

also have RSD so they're just basically

coming to the conclusion that it's it's

a it's a terrible symptom of ADHD yeah

exactly um we mentioned some benefits

and positive things uh hyperfocus is one

of them uh it's sometimes called a

superpower of

ADHD uh if you and seen this with with

all kinds of people in my life that have

ADHD uh if it's there if it's something

they're into and they're interested in

and they can zero in on that thing uh it

is like I mean hyperfocus doesn't even

begin to describe it they can tune out

everything um and sometimes to to their

own detriment you know if it's like

other things in their life that need

attention uh hyperfocus can distract

away from those but um it can also be a

great thing uh if you are

uh someone with ADHD you may have a a

real like um a real skill for like

zoning in on something maybe a

particular kind of job might be really

really good for you right or particular

tasks may be really really great for you

and you can get a lot done sometimes

that way yeah it's like the exact

opposite of your inability to

self-motivate right yeah um I saw a

corporate study bandied about um the

statistic all over the place but

essentially this this one company found

that a person a neurodiverse person who

is locked into something that interests

them in their work will essentially do

the job of two people they produce

between 90 and 140% more work than their

peers in the same say department and

that their um work is consistent and

error free typically because they're

just totally laser focused on that thing

so if you can find a job that holds your

interest like that you're you're very

much in luck because unfortunately one

of the things that is a huge challenge

for people with ADHD is finding a job

when you have to find a job that doesn't

hold your interest it's it's very

difficult to arouse yourself to do that

even though you know like you have to do

this and you should be doing it and you

feel terrible for not doing it it's

really hard to do sometimes yeah which

is why sort of understanding uh yourself

and your challenges is like really key

when you go out into the world and join

the workforce um like it's important for

anyone to to go into the job search

thinking like all right what am I really

good at and what are my challenges but I

just think it's probably times a million

if you have

ADHD yeah and um yeah for sure another

um kind of something related to this is

is you can become laser focused on just

everyday tasks that end up catching your

interest somehow surprisingly um and so

people with ADHD if they're doing a task

and they in hyperfocus it'll take them

way longer to do it frequently um but

that's because they're doing a a perfect

job of it so like say vacuuming the car

you just go to vacuum the car and you're

like huh this caught my interest and now

I'm totally focused on making this car

immaculately clean in every way shape or

form um so of course it's going to go

from taking 15 minutes to taking an hour

and a half you know but when when you're

done the car looks awesome yeah so maybe

um they're probably CEO all over the

place now trying to staff up certain

departments yeah that's actually a thing

and there are probably uh people that

should be auto detailers and start up

your own small business that way yeah

well one of the things I saw I read a

Dell watt or Del how do you say that

that consulting firm I don't know it

doesn't matter I I read one of their

reports and they were saying that um you

know traditionally people think like

okay there's there's got to be a good

job for a neurodiverse person like maybe

program or coding or something like that

just let them go off and be themselves

by themselves and they're starting to to

recognize like no like you you can put

somebody that's neurodiverse in any job

and if they find something interesting

in it they're going to excel at it it's

not necessarily a specific field that

applies to neurodiverse people yeah yeah

for sure um and you know kind of tagging

on to what we were just talking about um

viewing yourself as you know not having

a some sort of defect or deficit uh and

like hey this is who I am um this is how

I like I have no choice but to operate

this way uh and try and work you know

with within that framework not the

framework of somebody who doesn't have

this uh who doesn't have ADHD like it's

a the world and jobs a lot of times are

kind of structured around um I mean yeah

the entire world is structured around uh

people who aren't neurodiverse so

fitting into that world can be a real

challenge no matter what your

neurodiversity is so kind of uh working

with who you are and understanding that

is a real key to moving forward in life

yeah and there are a lot of positives

upsides to having ADHD that kind of give

you talents that other people don't

necessarily have um like one of them is

is I saw it described as you're getting

so much noise at any given time you're

inevitably going to also get more data

points than other people at any given

time and people ADHD have a a typically

an ability to connect dots that other

people make connections that other

people can't see um that's a big one um

another one is like if you are

multitasking and you actually get those

projects done that kind of Boundless

Energy that's synonymous with the

hyperactive part um of ADHD uh you're

going to get a ton of stuff done in any

given day way more than like a

neurotypical person who you know poops

out halfway through the day yeah for

sure uh another potential positive is

you know earlier when we were talking

about some of the impaired executive

functions and U being super just sort of

black and white and rigid uh when you

apply that to a moral code uh you may

have a very strong moral compass uh

whereas somebody who's a little more um

sees like the gray instead of the black

and white might be like well you know

it's really not so bad if if this kind

of if you do this kind of thing uh

whereas if you have a very strict of

view of right and wrong and a black and

white sense of that you may be like no

that's just wrong Chuck there was this

one time where I tried to fight two guys

who I thought were throwing rocks at a

manity and um like I I was I was seeing

red Yumi was even like it's not a manity

stop and I didn't even hear and um those

guys were like it's a rock we're not

throwing rocks at manties I was like oh

all right and luckily they were cool

with it but I was ready to fight two

dudes for throwing rocks at a manity

like my sense of justice was just that

stricken I wish I would have been there

I might have we might have fought him

anyway

Josh just because I've never been in a

fight right so like I don't know it'd be

fun to get in a fight with you right

sure oh yeah back to back yeah yeah

exactly the two

musketeers another one Chuck is if a

person with ADHD gets excited it's

infectious typically if they're in a

place where they feel safe and

comfortable like just showing their

excitement and just letting it hang out

you're probably going to get excited

along with them because it's just so it

just spills over it's it can be really

nice to be around for sure uh one more

thing uh if you have ADHD you very

typically catastrophize as far as

thinking goes you're just constantly

expecting the worst just because over

and over and over again in your life the

worst has come around because you forgot

to do something or whatever um so that

catastrophic thinking can actually be an

asset in

you can look at something that

everybody's about to do and be like well

we're all going to die if we do this

that no one else saw and you can find a

safer option in that way um it's it's

actually a huge benefit of having ADHD

even though you have to suffer with

catastrophic thinking in order for that

to be an asset too you know yeah uh

Chuck I say that we end part one here

yeah just getting cooking too and then

we're going to pick up part two and

we're going to talk some more about ADHD

in part two

and then um while we're talking about

ADHD we'll eventually finish part two

and then that will complete part one and

two of ADHD what do you think about that

for a plan I think that sounds great and

uh as is custom here we don't do uh

listener mail or anything for these two

parters so I guess we'll just say see

you Thursday yeah and finish on that

dramatic pause like the very special

episode of Different

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