AI version of Val Kilmer will appear in new movie

As deep as the grave is the name of a new independent movie, casting an AI version of Val Kilmer a year after he died. Kilmer's family says before he

died. Kilmer's family says before he died, he was cast to star in the movie.

But now his estate is giving producers permission to use his voice and likeliness with the help of generative artificial intelligence. The use of AI

artificial intelligence. The use of AI in Hollywood, it's been controversial for quite some time now, but the writer and director of the movie as deep as the grave says SAG guidelines were followed.

So technology journalist and host of the RIP current podcast, Jacob Ward joins us now for more. So Jacob, it seems like this movie is kind of opening the door that some Hollywood writers and actors

try to keep shut for a couple years now.

>> That's right, Perry. I mean, the big SAG after strike, the 118 day strike that we saw was all about this issue. And what

we are of course seeing here is the most sympathetic possible use of this. You

have a beloved actor. I like Val Kimmer.

You like Val Kimmer. We would love to see him of course in a new film. And in

this case, they've used the technology with the consent of his estate. His

daughter gave permission. They've

followed all the rules such as they are.

But what critics keep saying to me is that it's a case like this that winds up being sort of the dangerous case for everybody else. the precedent that it

everybody else. the precedent that it sets because this ushers in the possibility of the world that AI could make possible in Hollywood in which existing famous people, people who are

already inside the castle of Hollywood can pull up the drawbridge behind them and studio executives can no longer have to worry about you know focus grouping a new person or you know finding that new talent and negotiating the terms with

them but just pull in the same famous people over and over again. This is what the SAG after strikes were about. That's

what that contract was about in the end.

But of course, as we're seeing in this case, even with this very sympathetic use of it, this is very much the the dangerous uh uh use of this stuff that that these labor activists had in mind, Perry.

>> And then it's not even just bringing in the names of people who have died, but then just making actors out of nowhere like that Tilly Norwood character. So,

let's talk about this film. What more do we know about the film and the role that, you know, AI Val Kilmer will play?

Well, as I understand it, it's a a story in which his character is uh someone from the 19th century with tuberculosis, and you see him sort of get sick over time. There's something I would say a

time. There's something I would say a little bit morbid about the idea of using his damaged voice, which the filmmakers say they've got to make use of. He had a tracheotomy later in his

of. He had a tracheotomy later in his life because of throat cancer. They use

that as a sort of bridge connection to the actor itself. The idea that that you know a dead actor's terminal illness is like a production asset sort of rubs me the wrong way. But you know there's a

there's a a certainly you know the the AI the technology itself is incredible.

I mean what an amazing thing to be able to pull this guy's likeness in make clearly an ind you know what will be probably an indistinguishable performance from what you would get from a human. But it's the use of this stuff

a human. But it's the use of this stuff in terms of you know disenfranchising actors. You've seen people like, you

actors. You've seen people like, you know, Matthew McConey did a big uh CNN variety town hall recently where he told young actors in the room, you know, it's coming. It's here. There's no ridic

coming. It's here. There's no ridic resisting it. You just have to trademark

resisting it. You just have to trademark your appearance. Trademark your license

your appearance. Trademark your license to protect yourself. That's easy for Matthew McConny to say he's got all right. All right. All right. That he can

right. All right. All right. That he can trademark, right? But a young and

trademark, right? But a young and upcoming actor doesn't have that opportunity here. And that is what all

opportunity here. And that is what all these labor activists are worried about is a world in which you can't get into Hollywood anymore unless you are already famous or in the case of Val Kilmer famous and unfortunately deceased here Perry.

>> So I want to talk about the Kilmer family. They gave their blessing. So in

family. They gave their blessing. So in

a statement Kilmer's daughter says that he always looked at emerging technologies with optimism as a tool to expand the possibilities of storytelling and she added this spirit is something that we are all honoring within the

specific film of which he was an integral part. So I'm curious what do

integral part. So I'm curious what do you make of that statement? Do you see this as possibly a good thing for the family at least just to see their father on film on screen again?

>> Sure. I think in this particular case it's inarguable, right, that this was something, you know, where they really try are trying to do this, right? This

is an independent film. The filmmaker

says he tried to cast Kilmer when he was alive. So that's 5 years, you know,

alive. So that's 5 years, you know, before his death, which means he was not trying to raid this guy's likeness or steal it in some way. It was a good faith effort to try and get this guy into the movie. And then he clearly wanted to make it possible. He said, you

know, in part, we're a lowbudget production company. We don't have the

production company. We don't have the power to to, you know, make big changes.

This was a way to to get him in there and to have an artistic impact. So,

within the bounds of this particular movie, Perry, I think, you know, it's in arguable that this was this was done by the rules and done in a way that that is is highly ethical. But it's the precedent that this sets for, you know,

unscrupulous production companies in the future who are going to try and use this technology to make it such that, you know, you're an up andcoming actor, you get your first big break, and they make you sign a contract that says they can use your digital likeness forever. You

know, that's the kind of thing that if you say no to, well, then they don't have to cast you, and that's the end of it. So, we're really just at the very

it. So, we're really just at the very beginning of sorting out the labor implications of AI in that in Hollywood here, Perry. Even though in this

here, Perry. Even though in this particular case clearly this is a very uh you know positive use of it.

>> Incredibly fascinating topic. Jacob

Ward. Thank you.