Aliens Already Live Here! NASA Physicist Reveals UFOs Shutting Down Nuclear Missiles Since The 1960s

When you say shutting down nuclear missile sites, one of the professors said, "I have friends who work up at Molmstrom Air Force Base and they have problems there with UFOs flying over the nuclear

missile sites and shutting down our nuclear missiles." He said, "Yeah, yeah,

nuclear missiles." He said, "Yeah, yeah, they're often UFO sightings when that happens." So, I started paying

happens." So, I started paying attention.

Dr. Kevin Can is a professor of physics and a former NASA scientist willing to go where most of his colleagues won't.

UFOs, UAPs, and the possibility that aliens might already be in our solar system.

I look through cases where you have something unexpected. When people are

something unexpected. When people are abducted by gray aliens that were 60% reported, they were given babies to hold. Why would anyone report that?

hold. Why would anyone report that?

Specific things that keep popping up all over the world, Paul to Congo to Chicago. Here's the

interesting surprise. They could have discovered Earth a long time ago.

Congress noted that UFOs had become more aggressive toward our pilots in war zones. And if you think of them as

zones. And if you think of them as having found Earth, they may have the mindset Earth is their planet. We could

end up in a conflict eventually. I don't

think anybody's ready for this.

Hi, I'm Alic.

I'm Jonathan Cohen.

And welcome to our breakdown. As you can tell from my t-shirt and if you can see close enough my earrings, today is a day when we're going to discuss the

impossibility of aliens. Our guest today is someone who has the incredible opportunity to study unidentified aerial

phenomena UAPs from the perspective of physics. He is a professor at University

physics. He is a professor at University at Albany. That's Sunni Albany, New

at Albany. That's Sunni Albany, New York. Kevin Canuth is a professor of

York. Kevin Canuth is a professor of physics. They focus on the scientific

physics. They focus on the scientific study of UAPs. He's a former NASA research scientist. He worked at the AS

research scientist. He worked at the AS research center in the intelligence systems division. This episode is a

systems division. This episode is a perfect example of how we can blend skepticism, curiosity, criticism with

open-mindedness, and the ability to open our conscious experience of what is here and now into a possible understanding of what is beyond what we can see and

measure. We're going to be discussing

measure. We're going to be discussing some of the most compelling data out there in terms of speed, acceleration, the amount of power required to even be able to imagine how UAPs would travel.

Dr. Canuth is also going to walk us through the statistically significant and disturbing reports of UFO sightings surrounding military and nuclear

activity. What is going on? What should

activity. What is going on? What should

we be concerned about? And where do we go to get the information about what happens next? We're going to talk about

happens next? We're going to talk about who we can trust with this information.

We're going to touch on the unique characteristics of three Atlas research that's being done to test actual debris from crash sites and what we can learn from that.

We're also going to talk about the water world hypothesis. Uh what would it mean

world hypothesis. Uh what would it mean to imagine that aliens might not be traveling from other places but might actually be here already and they might be underwater? You're going to want to

be underwater? You're going to want to make sure you listen to the very very end of this episode where we ask Dr. Canuth what has personally happened to

him that makes him believe that the study of UAPs is scientifically not only necessary but critical to our understanding of our humanity. Before we

welcome Dr. Canuth, you can find out more about his research at alb.edu/giving/uapx edu/giving/uapx

alb.edu/giving/uapx edu/giving/uapx if you want to learn more about what it means to support this kind of research.

Dr. Kevin Canuth, welcome to the breakdown.

Break it down.

Hello. Thank you so much for having me.

I'd like you to give us a framework of why you do what you do in terms of your study of UAPs.

I was born in 1965, so I was four years old with the Apollo moon landings and I remember them. Um I remember my dad

remember them. Um I remember my dad holding me just after we watched it on TV and pointing up at the moon and saying there are people up there and

that had such a huge impact on me and um so I was thrilled to see Artemis to go around the moon. 1977 I was I was what 12 years old and that's when Star Wars

came out which of course had a huge impact and and at the same time at night what 6:30 at night they would play in search of with Leonard Nemoy and In

Search of always had some UFO things which were always exciting and interesting. Went to graduate school at

interesting. Went to graduate school at Montana State University and got my master's degree in physics there. And um

when I first moved out there, that would have been late summer of 1988, I we I'd been living out there for about a week or so. And um classes had just started

or so. And um classes had just started and there was a cattle mutilation in Bosezeman on a ranch. Um that night there were what 100 phone calls to the

sheriff's office about UFOs. And um then you have this cattle mutilation where there were two cows that were killed and surgically manipulated and it was very

bizarre. And um and this was all over

bizarre. And um and this was all over the news and people were worried that you know it's aliens or it's Satanists and those were the two main explanations

that those are the two hypotheses everybody ran to right and we were discussing this in the physics department and the some of the new students were

you know we've all you've been to grad school so you know what you you move to a new place you're going to be you're going to be there for five years so we the conversation was kind of more centered around what kind of crazy place

have we all just moved to and how are we going to navigate this, right? And it

was a pretty heated discussion and one of the professors came out of his office to see what the commotion was. Clearly,

we had bothered him and um and we told him and he he didn't have any words of comfort for us. In fact, it was even stranger. He said, "Yeah, yeah, that happens from time to time and

they're often UFO sightings when that happens, but it we look at people look into it and they never figure it out and then people forget about it until it happens again."

happens again." Like, well, that's not very satisfactory.

And then he tops it all off with this additional statement. and he goes, "You

additional statement. and he goes, "You know, I I have friends who work up who are in the Air Force who work up at Molmstrom Air Force Base in northern Montana and they have problems there

with UFOs flying over the nuclear missile sites and shutting down our nuclear missiles." And you know, we

nuclear missiles." And you know, we listened politely and when he walked away, to be honest, we laughed our butts off because it was it was hard to imagine that that's even possible,

right? the UFOs are shutting down our

right? the UFOs are shutting down our nuclear missiles and our government isn't on high alert. I mean, this isn't all over the place. So, we nobody really believed that. And um that kind of

believed that. And um that kind of became a running joke for the year.

Anytime somebody would say something strange happened, um somebody else would chime in, yeah, but you know, it's really strange. UFOs are shutting down

really strange. UFOs are shutting down nuclear missiles at Mstrom Air Force Base. And we would all laugh. And so

Base. And we would all laugh. And so

that stuck with me until um I was here at U Albany teaching and this would have been about 2015 or so. Um, so it's

before the New York Times article still by um by Wesley Kaine and Ralph Blumenthal and I mean Cooper and um so

it was before that and I was teaching a course in astronomy and preparing for a lecture on astrobiology and possibility of life elsewhere and

some of my students wanted me to talk about UFOs and I didn't know what to talk about except the Drake equation or the fairmy paradox. So, I was just

poking around on the internet to think about is there anything intelligent I can actually say and I stumbled on a the press conference held by Robert Hastings

in 2010 where he had five or six people from the Air Force talking about UFO incursions at nuclear missile sites. And the first person that he talked to was Robert

Sales who was at Malmstrom Air Force Base. And I and I got that I was like,

Base. And I and I got that I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. I heard

about this 30 years ago, right? It was I heard about this when I was in grad school from a physics professor.

And it just it just hit me like, you know, a ton of bricks like, wait a minute, this this is very possibly real and

what and nobody's doing anything about it. Nobody's even knows about it. and

it. Nobody's even knows about it. and

this could be incredibly dangerous and it just I was very concerned on hearing this and then I so I stayed up I watched the whole press conference was like 2 or 3 hours I don't think I went to bed till like

3:00 a.m.

3:00 a.m.

that night I had to get up early for class. It struck me. I thought,

class. It struck me. I thought,

"Somebody needs to look into this and see if this is really real." And so I started just paying attention. Um I was paying attention. I started reading up

paying attention. I started reading up on the topic and getting anything that I could that seemed reasonable.

Um and and then when the New York Times article came out to talking about the or AIP program, then I thought, "Yeah, this scientists need to be involved. somebody

needs to be studying these things. And

so I decided to try to study it. Well, I

don't know what I can do, but I thought let's first I'll do my homework. Let's

just do what you should do. And so we have a set I found there were a set of encounters where they had descriptions of how fast these objects were moving.

And I thought, well, I can at least at the very least I can estimate speeds and accelerations and get some idea of what we're dealing with here.

And um and that really shocked me that the speeds and accelerations were crazy.

I mean crazy huge. The the observers would have to be very very very wrong for those numbers to be anywhere close to that. So I I found that really

to that. So I I found that really amazing.

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Generally speaking, why why are so many scientists of a variety of fields afraid to touch this stuff?

I mean, there clearly is a taboo against it. You know, a lot of it probably has

it. You know, a lot of it probably has to do with the way that it's been covered up by our government and other governments. And that is um

governments. And that is um you it doesn't take much to cover it up, which is why it isn't doesn't need to be a grand conspiracy theory. All you have

to do is make fun of it. Um just make fun of the witnesses and everybody laughs and giggles. They might report it on the nightly news and you know the rep the anchor people are laughing haha

while they're talking about it and they've got the little silly graphic of a saucer with a green person in it and and that's all it takes and everybody looks like nutcases. So um scientists

don't want to get involved in it. Some

scientists are very adamantly against it like like when um they find out you're working on it you are no longer a scientist in their minds. It's a very

strange response and it's not a response that you would expect a scientist to have. Scientists ought to be curious,

have. Scientists ought to be curious, right? And um and and they have this

right? And um and and they have this strange expectation that there has to be some kind of smoking gun evidence. I

mean, Mio Kaku uses that phrase all the time. There's no smoking gun evidence.

time. There's no smoking gun evidence.

Well, there never is in science. I I

study exoplanets and um we don't have smoking gun evidence about what their atmospheres are like. We don't have samples. Nobody's been there. Nobody's

samples. Nobody's been there. Nobody's

actually seen the planet with their own eyes. Um but we know all know a lot

eyes. Um but we know all know a lot about them. You get lots of little

about them. You get lots of little pieces of information and you piece that all together and and under a theory you can make inferences and that's basically

how you work in science. Humans like to find patterns and we we are wired to recognize patterns and sometimes that means we will create patterns where they

don't exist. And when we're talking

don't exist. And when we're talking about this kind of data, it's very tempting to piece it together into a pattern that points to there are aliens

and they're interested in nuclear facilities. Can you give us a little bit

facilities. Can you give us a little bit of a background as to when people started talking about potential alien

interest in nuclear sites, military sites? How legitimate is that? And is

sites? How legitimate is that? And is

that a place for us to start the investigation?

I think it is legitimate for a few reasons. I think first that

reasons. I think first that this was recognized rather early on. In

fact, I have an a article from 1951 and it's put out by the Atomic Energy Commission and they're asking people to report UFO sightings near nuclear power

plants. That's very odd. I mean, clearly

plants. That's very odd. I mean, clearly somebody knew something was going on, right?

But that's also selection bias, right?

Because if they were to say, "We'd like you to report alien sightings near dairy farms." You know, I I can't go back in time, at least not currently, and say,

well, if we had been looking at dairy farms, you know, maybe, and again, I'm devil's advocate here, maybe people who think that they're seeing UFOs will see

them anywhere you tell them to look.

It's that's very possible. Yeah. But I

think Yeah. So, so I mentioned that because that was the earliest um piece of information that highlights

that a possible connection. Um you then have the many of the Air Force sightings are

related to um nuclear weapons being shut down, which is which is interesting. the

fact that they're actually somehow possibly interacting with these, whether they're in it's an intentional interaction or a non-intentional interaction, it's not clear.

When you say shutting down nuclear missile sites, Robert Solless describes this. Well, the

UFO would come down and hover over one of the launch tubes for the nuclear missile and shortly after it would become it would basically become deactivated. He's in one of his um

deactivated. He's in one of his um interviews he said that it was a guidance um a guidance malfunction that caused the

shutdown.

So um is is it an intentional shutdown?

I mean most people I think are assuming it's intentional but doesn't need to be.

If you have a guidance system running on this nuclear missile um the missile needs to know where it is. It needs to know that it's still in the launch tube, right? In the absence of other evidence,

right? In the absence of other evidence, my first assumption is not alien. My

first or second or even 10th assumption might be there's many countries in the world that would love to [ __ ] with our missiles, right? Like that. So, I'm not

missiles, right? Like that. So, I'm not necessarily going to UFO, but maybe you can give us a little bit more of the landscape, you know, of how we piece

together all of these things to direct us towards that as opposed to many of the other explanations that some of us would come up with.

The main difficulty is this started um as far as I know, the the nuclear missiles being shut down started in the 1960s.

And so at that time we didn't nobody had drones at that time. You don't have a drone. So these objects were behaving

drone. So these objects were behaving very much like what we would today call drones, right? And um and so I think

drones, right? And um and so I think that was that's one of the major difficulties. They were when they were

difficulties. They were when they were observed they looked like what people described UFOs to be um some of the descriptions balls of light and um and

so this is where they went to that explanation.

Um, and it was apparently rather common.

The my I was my wife's from Louisiana. We were down for Marty Gro two years ago. We were

having a little barbecue with with f for family and um we were grilling and I was I was at the grill with um my wife's uncle Matt and I noticed he had his air he was he had been in Air Force and I'd

never really thought about that but he had a cap on and his cap you know said air force and said Malmstrom Air Force Base and I was like wait you were at Mstrom when were you at Monstr and he

said the early 1970s which is right the time period when these shutdowns were happening. I said, "Did you know

happening. I said, "Did you know anything about UFOs shutting down nuclear miss?" He goes, "Oh, yeah, that

nuclear miss?" He goes, "Oh, yeah, that happened all the time and blah blah."

Like like it was common knowledge. And I

was and I ran and got my wife. I said,

"You have to come out here and hear hear this." And I had him tell her because

this." And I had him tell her because I'm tired of being the only crazy person in the room.

It was nice to have somebody else like, "Yeah, this was this happened all the time." Yeah. So, so that that's

time." Yeah. So, so that that's apparently it was not a rare event. Um,

and there's a nice study by um the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies and they were studying UFO sightings from

1947 to the mid70s. They did a comparison of the numbers of sightings, UFO sightings at nuclear nuclear sites,

um either nuclear production sites or storage sites or weapon sites and then compared that to um military nearby

military bases and nearby cities. And it

turned out that the um the nuclear missile sites had more more sightings than the others did. And in fact, those sightings went back earlier. Um, the

sightings at nuclear sites started when the sites were being constructed before there were any nuclear materials there.

If we were to think about, you know, a UFO that exists outside of this planet, right? Like it's not here now.

right? Like it's not here now.

and it's coming down to let's say pick up, you know, some radioactivity detection system that's like making it come down, whatever. Explain to us from

a physics perspective, what are we actually talking about? How is this UFO actually getting here? It's related to

one of Carl Sean's arguments against UFOs being alien and that was he he he said something like um I have a hard time believing that you've got a craft

arriving from interstellar space every Tuesday.

Right.

And I think he's right about that. I

think that's not what's happening. I

think they live here. The Sean

perspective would be in theory that outside of our galactic kind of knowledge, there are places, right,

where there are um flying saucers, for lack of a better word, and they somehow can travel across time, right? They're traveling from

time, right? They're traveling from wherever they are at speeds that we don't even understand because technically, right, that's where they'd be coming from is outside of our remote measurement

from another star system.

Correct. From another star system.

Great. So, they would be then entering our atmosphere undetected until a moment of reveal, right? or until they need to like uh

right? or until they need to like uh access whatever information they're here to gather and then they are able to again a like against all of our

measurement capabilities disappear out of sight sometimes in an instant and then they exist somewhere in another star system with whatever information I

mean one question I have you know in consistent with that is like why are they crashing if they're sophisticated enough right to be traveling across galaxies season star systems. They can't

just keep steering correctly cuz they're fighting with the people they're traveling with. They're all

hangry.

Their wife is saying, "Why don't you stop and ask for directions?" Anyway, so your solution to my question is

they live here.

They have to live within one light day of this of Earth.

What's a light day? So that basically puts them in our solar system somewhere.

So they have to be somewhere in our solar system and and pos very possibly here on Earth already. The Soviets when trying to study some of these objects would

make military maneuvers, especially naval maneuvers. So they would perform

naval maneuvers. So they would perform these large ma naval maneuvers that would typically just confuse the United States. But what the Soviets were doing

States. But what the Soviets were doing is they would make this large naval maneuver and then UFOs would show up and they would study them.

So they were actually moving military equipment around to get UFOs to come and that would typically happen within 24 hours. So light travels, you know,

hours. So light travels, you know, 186,000 miles a second, right? So, so

you so for a UFO to get here in 24 hours, the light would have had to travel out information some distance and then they have to travel back. If we're

talking about us communicating with aliens and them receiving information enough for them to act on it

and then show up, why on earth do they have to follow our information time scale of how bits and quanta travel through the universe?

This also happens with natural disasters. So with the Fukushima nuclear

disasters. So with the Fukushima nuclear power plant disaster, um there were UFOs there the next day. What if their method of detection,

information transfer, travel, what if none of it obeys any of the laws that we can talk about? And I'm

not just bringing this up like to give you a straw man. It's very interesting to me how we limit ourselves when we're talking about something like aliens,

which is limitless as far as I'm concerned. They may be communicating on

concerned. They may be communicating on a level that we don't even understand.

like you know like the dog whistle right like extrapolate that out like they're operating on like an AI energy level that like no one understands and it also

like detects you know the like level of estrogen in my you know blood. I don't

know.

No, that's a that's a good point and it's it makes studying something that you don't know anything about very difficult. You can either just say, "I

difficult. You can either just say, "I don't know anything about this, so everything's open." Or you can say,

everything's open." Or you can say, "Well, I do know how this typically works." So if if this is typically, you

works." So if if this is typically, you know, if information's basic if they're getting information the way everybody else here does, then you're limited by

the speed of light. And so that means that they have to not be that far away.

Okay. I'm willing to so I'm going to go ahead and grant you that one possible solution, one possible, you

know, explanation for numerous decades of reports of some sort of temporal connection between military or

radioactive activity on this planet and some sort of increase in reports of sightings, activity. those for those

sightings, activity. those for those things to occur temporally. The logical

explanation that we can provide within the framework of math and physics and science that we have, the logical conclusion would be they don't have to

travel that far. Let's say aliens are within a light day of us. What should I practically be thinking about for a framework? Are they hiding in clear

framework? Are they hiding in clear sight? You know, what does this look

sight? You know, what does this look like? I mean, that's a good question. We

like? I mean, that's a good question. We

don't know anything about them or their intentions or what they're up to, so it's hard to know exactly. You you they probably have a um if they come from an

if they originate from another star system, then you would hypothesize that they have some type of, you know, base or colony or something like that here

with, you know, the scale unknown. It

can't be a huge scale because we would have noticed already. So, so it's um and are and are they hiding? That's very

possible. Um they could be they could be have a base on an asteroid in the asteroid belt and it would take forever to find that. Um they could be in our

oceans uh underground um on Earth. You

could do the same for um some of Jupiter's moons. Europa has a 60-mi deep

Jupiter's moons. Europa has a 60-mi deep ocean. They could be living there. They

ocean. They could be living there. They

could be from Europa. You know, they might not actually be from another star system. They could also be from Earth.

system. They could also be from Earth.

Um, they might have lived here the whole time and we didn't know it. So, that's

another possibility. There's so many possibilities, it's hard to know. Um,

there's also the, you know, Michael Masters from in Montana has has suggested they're time travelers.

So it's it's very hard to know what the situation is without being able to get hard data.

What hard data is the most compelling to you that supports that something is going on that is extraterrestrial as it were?

The most interesting for me has been the speeds and accelerations and the amount of power involved in some of these

maneuvers and also their luminosities.

That's one thing that um Bruce McCabe had looked at when he was alive and jockas looked at and that is that some of these craft are very luminous like

bright you know burning people's eyes get people getting sunburnt but these things aren't that luminous and um and in fact Shocket has a paper that um came

out last year in the same special issue that our paper came out in where he they looked at a landing in um northern Louisiana.

Um, and and I think it was right at the border of Arkansas where the UFO had landed in a clearing and a physics professor had actually seen the light

from the object and realized that this thing was putting out megawatts of light and literally stopped in the highway, turned his car around and went the other way because I don't want to go anywhere

near this thing. And that it actually scorched the trees. And so they did a study of the bark, the scorched bark to get some idea about the energies involved. And so some of the some of the

involved. And so some of the some of the UFOs are putting out hundreds of megawatts of light. It's basically a nuclear power plant amount of light

being emitted. Why you would need to do

being emitted. Why you would need to do that is beyond me. Um,

and it's it's it's that's shocking, but that's something that humans wouldn't be able to do or wouldn't bother doing. Um,

so it would be, so it's very strange.

This is being written about, you know, when some people who aren't in the space hear about a claim like that that there was a craft that landed and was observed, they can say, well, there's where's

where's the picture? How come we didn't have a cell phone? How come we haven't, you know, back to the smoking gun? But

the article Valerie just posted says estimates of uh radiative energy values in ground level observation of unidentified aerial phenomenon new

physical uh new physical data. So people

are writing about this and in that case there's hard data.

There's actually the tree bark.

You're like what is happening in that tree bark? What what is happening that

tree bark? What what is happening that it's being observed in that way?

Do all indications point to alien? Not

necessarily.

Not not all of them do. Yeah.

Right. You you you always have to think of you know is there an adversarial nation experiment terrorist whatever who is experimenting with things that we

don't understand especially if it's from a country with technology that is secretive or that we don't know about.

You know these are all sort of like the the possibilities that are there. I

think the question is you know why is it so elusive Dr. Canuth? Do you think that there's, you know, is there a plan to

hide this and just sometimes they don't hide it? Well, like what is the message

hide it? Well, like what is the message that's trying to be communicated with kind of intermittent and desperate visitations like this? I is there a

larger message that some of us might say, look, I if this is happening, why is it happening sporadically? Why is it happening in this way? Is there

interest, you know, and also like I'm a I'm a contact fan. I'm an arrival fan, you know, is this uh is it a benevolent message? Is there, you know, something

message? Is there, you know, something we should worry about? Could it be that they don't believe in nuclear war and they'd like to destroy all of the reactors because they know that there's

a greater love and peace than we have been able to access on this planet?

First, you're absolutely right. They're

not all we we know for a fact they're not all alien spacecraft. I mean, most most sightings have prosaic explanations and um that's 97% of the sightings or so

are have prosaic explanations and um are usually misidentified aircraft, misidentified human aircraft, right? But

UAP is still a a class of objects, not a specific type of thing. So, um we don't have a taxonomy of what these things all are yet. So, are some of them um

are yet. So, are some of them um adversarial drones? Very, probably.

adversarial drones? Very, probably.

That's probably the case. And probably a larger percentage of those than there are alien craft. The most compelling pieces of evidence are usually the amounts of energy and power involved. Um

I mean, if you think about it, you're putting you got something putting out hundreds of megawatts of light. Um it

means you're dealing with that amount of power in your craft. Well, if you have a 1% I mean all of our all of our human

devices um have some inefficiency to them. So even if it's 99% efficient,

them. So even if it's 99% efficient, most of our things are running around 20% efficiency, right? We're not

thermodynamics is hard. But if even if they're really good, they got 99% efficiency. That means there's a 1%

efficiency. That means there's a 1% inefficiency. And if they're putting out

inefficiency. And if they're putting out 100 megawatts of light, that means they've got one megawatt of power going into waste heat inside the craft, which is incredibly dangerous. You wouldn't be

able to do that. That wouldn't work. So,

so it's not clear. It's not clear how to even interpret the results because we don't know how you could engineer something like that in the first place.

Why you would do it or how you would do it, it's it's really not clear. And I

think that's some of the most compelling pieces of evidence. But but most most sightings are not those things, right?

Um and I think that's one thing that's been difficult. I mean, I still have

been difficult. I mean, I still have even scientists will ask me, "How do UFOs fly?" I said, "Well, they fly

UFOs fly?" I said, "Well, they fly different. Some fly differently than

different. Some fly differently than others, and we don't know all the different types of craft there are." And

um takeoffs I find takeoffs interesting because they almost never observe takeoffs almost never go from ground the ground to zooming away. They don't

almost never do that. They get off the ground some distance hover for a second and then zoom away. But how they get off the ground is different for different

craft. So in the Lani Zamora case in New

craft. So in the Lani Zamora case in New Mexico, Sakora, New Mexico, um this was I don't remember the dates, the 60s I

guess this craft, a blimpshaped craft used like rocket engines to get off the ground. It actually had a rocket blast

ground. It actually had a rocket blast and sage brush was on fire and then the thing hovered and then went was gone.

Whereas you have another case in um in France where um the Amaranth case where the this thing was in a field and the thing lifted off but um but there were

no no sound, nothing, no flames, no sound, no histrionics, but the thing as it lifts off all the grass like pointed toward the thing like it was statically

charged. Um so so these craft are using

charged. Um so so these craft are using different propulsion techniques. We

don't even know what these, you know, we don't know the taxonomy even yet. We

haven't, we haven't done the work of stamp collecting yet, which so it's a hard, we're in a hard spot.

How far apart were those examples? Like,

is it that they're using different technology or the technology that they have has has advanced?

Sakoro was 1964 and Emaranth was probably not not too different. I mean, the Sakuro um

different. I mean, the Sakuro um example, it was um it was a sergeant that reported it, Sergeant Zamora. So,

this was a a sergeant who called in what he thought was a like some sort of car accident or something. Um I I think this is another question and that sort of

brings up like who do we trust? Because

when farmers were reporting that rocks were falling from the sky and they were, you know, oh those dumb farmers, they don't know what they're talking about.

And then you know it was actually things do fall from the sky. Um how do we decide who to trust and what have you found in terms of um evidence? you know,

do we trust one person's report more than another person's report? Because a

lot of these things you sort of have to first believe the report. You know, we talked with David Kipping about this, right? Like how do you as a scientist

right? Like how do you as a scientist decide what gets weight, what evidence kind of tips you from, I don't know, this sounds anecdotal, or maybe it was a

hallucination or maybe they were asleep.

What tips the scale for you in terms of understanding who to trust? That's

probably the hardest thing to deal with.

I mean, most of the information we have is anecdotal evidence, which is not very trustworthy.

Um, I don't think anybody would would claim otherwise. What I typically do

claim otherwise. What I typically do with it is I look at different anecdotes and um I look for commonalities that are

unexpected and um especially in older cases. In

older cases, you didn't have the global communication that you do nowadays.

You didn't have the vernacular of, oh, they're going to expect me to say this or if or I'm going to lean towards that.

So, older data is technically more isolated in a good way.

Typically, we'll focus on older cases and you want to look for something that's unexpected. I mean, that's

that's unexpected. I mean, that's basically what you do with information theory. information is related to

theory. information is related to entropy. But a a good way to think about

entropy. But a a good way to think about is it's the sum of p log p of your probability times the logarithm of the probability of the event that you're

that you're thinking about. And um you can think of the logarithm of the probability of an event as being um it's actually has a name. It's called the

surprise which is a great name for a physical for for a quantity. So the

logarithm of a probability of a signal is is called the surprise. So minus the logarithm of the probability. So so the probability is small then the surprise

is large. So, so you want to so you so I

is large. So, so you want to so you so I basically look through cases where you have something unexpected where the surprise is high, right? And if you can

find that there's some consistency uh across cases, especially AC across the world or over some periods of time, um then then I think that's more

reliable.

What's one of your favorite surprises?

So, I have two two favorite surprises.

The the first one has to do with cars shutting down. When a UFO hovers over a

shutting down. When a UFO hovers over a car, the car sometimes shuts down. Not

all the time. Sometimes the car shuts down. And then sometimes when the car

down. And then sometimes when the car when the UFO leaves, the car will start up again by itself.

What?

Basically, the kinds of cars that get shut down were um cars with spark plugs.

So, they're gasoline powered cars, not diesel.

Right. The hypothesis is Ben that the um that the UFO is putting out high electric fields and that's ionizing the air which is shorting out the spark

plugs.

Okay?

And so you short out the spark plugs so you kill a gasoline engine but a diesel engine doesn't have spark plugs so it doesn't affect it. So then why does the car start again sometimes when it

leaves? And that was the most unexpected

leaves? And that was the most unexpected thing for me. I thought that's just very weird. And um Mccell wrote a wrote a

weird. And um Mccell wrote a wrote a paper in 1983 on cars restarting.

And what happens is when you've got a high electric field, you're also shorting out the um the distributor cap. So you're dist you're shorting out

cap. So you're dist you're shorting out that too. So you've got current flowing

that too. So you've got current flowing to the um primary ignition coil. So

you've got a magnetic field around the primary ignition coil. Now when the UFO leaves the it that the cap stops stops shorting the current stops the field

collapses but that induces a field into the secondary coil which then sends a spark to the to the um to one of the pistons.

And if that piston is ready to fire with if it has a air gas mixture in it ready to fire, it'll fire and that'll start the car. And it turns out you can

the car. And it turns out you can calculate how often that should happen and it's um it's rough. I don't remember the exact number. I'd have to pull it up and I don't want to have to mess with it

here. But um but I've worked that out.

here. But um but I've worked that out.

It's it's it's it's basically it should happen like um like 10% of the time.

Wow.

So what happens with observation? So

here's the interesting surprise from Mark Roiger's database of cars being shut down. I think there was something like 2,000 cases. Um 200 of

those people reported the cars restarting 10% of the time. So what

about these cases? Well, those people were telling the truth. They all were all 2,000 of them would have been telling the truth for the statistics to work, right? So they were dependable at

work, right? So they were dependable at least in that rights aspect of the description of what happened. The other one is one that got

happened. The other one is one that got me more interested in the whole abduction phenomenon, which when I first got into this, I was like, I don't even

want to think about that. That's that

seems crazy to me. And that was um I was watching a talk by John Mack where um he was a Harvard psychologist who had studied alien abductions

and um got into it trying to understand what what psychological thing is happening to these people so that they think they're all being abducted by aliens, right? And his conclusion was

aliens, right? And his conclusion was like um that's because they're being abducted by aliens apparently. So was

his conclusion. So, I was watching a video of a talk of his and he talked about how when people are abducted by gray aliens, there were 60% of the

people reported um around the world um that they were given babies to hold before they so they would have some

medical tests done, something's medically done to them, and then before they were sent back home, they were given babies to hold. And I was like,

wait, why would anyone report that?

That's bizarre. And so that was one of the surprising things. But it turns out it's 60% of the cases.

Um, from Nepal to Congo to Chicago. Um,

it's it's again something and these are old cases. So these are things that you

old cases. So these are things that you wouldn't expect. when we're thinking

wouldn't expect. when we're thinking impossibly, you know, what it means is that, you know, as kind of as kind of Jeff describes it, it doesn't mean that you take everything off the table that you can't explain and say, "Well, I can

explain everything and everything else doesn't make sense." What leaving everything on the table means that even the things that seem impossible,

they they exist. And even if you're looking at anecdotal reports, why would people from vastly disperate cultures

and cultural narratives and social dynamics, I mean, look, and this is one of the things we we can talk about, like what does the human mind conjure, right?

What do I have in common with someone in Nepal and in Morocco and in Colombia?

Yeah, right. We all have a a human brain and it can construct all sorts of things, but we also know that culture is incredibly influential on determining

narratives and folklore and right why would you have those kinds of similarities across the world? I mean

there has to be some explanation. I

don't know if it's aliens but it's certainly not nothing. Yeah, you can't be sure that they are being given babies to hold by aliens, but but you can be sure something's going some there's something interesting

there, right? There's something that's

there, right? There's something that's that's causing those correlations. So,

I'm kind of like hearing the skeptic being like, well, I'm sure lots of things happened, right? But we're not talking about finding similarities between, oh, these people walked on two

feet and therefore aliens exist, right?

that we're not talking about reports of something that's mundane or benol. We're

talking about specific things that seem to keep popping up all over the world in ways that we cannot explain. And it's

not enough, especially from a scientific perspective, to say it must be bull.

Like that's not an explanation.

It's something that calls for study and calls for an explanation. And I think that's really all you can say about it.

You have a colleague who studies very specific material. What is he focused on and what can we learn from that?

Matthew is is a colleague of mine at U Albany. Absolutely brilliant, great guy.

Albany. Absolutely brilliant, great guy.

He um he has developed a new technique to um study to basically detect the um isotopes in in a material. So, and it's

non-destructive.

So, he basically um radiates it with um with neutrons. So, basically when you

with neutrons. So, basically when you radiate the material with neutrons, you're basically throwing neutrons into the nuclei. You're making the object,

the nuclei. You're making the object, you're making those nuclei radioactive and then they decay. So, you watch them decay and you watch the decay rates and then you figure out what element that

was and you then know what it decayed into. So you know what it had been

into. So you know what it had been before you made it radioactive and that's basically what he's doing. Um so

it's a brilliant technique and works and um so he has been looking at um at material from purported crash sites and

UFO crashes and um and this again extremely difficult work because um of the community we're dealing with has all sorts of beliefs

about what this is already before you look at it. And I'll just quote Matthew here. Um, one day I asked him how it was

here. Um, one day I asked him how it was going and what he's found. And he goes, "I have analyzed more Earth dirt than I would have ever imagined."

You know, basically, and that's one of the problems we're finding here. You

know, the UFO community is thrilled that we scientists are involved, but in a lot of ways, we ruin everything. We ruin all the fun. And um we because we find out

the fun. And um we because we find out that most of these things are not that interesting and um and so most of these material he's analyzed is not

interesting and clearly not alien and um and I think that's it that's causing some conflict. you know, we have um the

some conflict. you know, we have um the community now is like, well, wait a minute. you guys are saying this isn't

minute. you guys are saying this isn't this isn't what we thought it was and so this isn't evidence but they want evidence so badly that this is becoming a bit of a but I think this is sort of a reckoning

moment you know for this community because you know what we have to believe is that if there is a truth

we should be able to communicate that truth among believers and non-believers the point of truth it doesn't take sides and it's not partisan the truth Truth is the important part,

right? We want to get to the truth. And

right? We want to get to the truth. And

that means that we've got to get rid of all the stuff that isn't true. And some

of that's hard for some people to let go of, but you're going to have to let go of it if you want to get to the truth.

Yeah.

One of the the most interesting things that many of us, you know, have heard in support of there are UFOs coming from other places is it's made of a material

that couldn't have been made right on this planet. It's it's it's got

this planet. It's it's it's got properties that we've never seen. It's

put together in a way, right? So, even

if some of those things, let's say, are are harder to decipher. What's the story with angel hair? I thought I had heard everything.

Angel hair is weird. And and it turned out to get weirder the more I looked into it as well. There have been instances where you've had UFOs hovering

and they're basically emitting or or expelling some kind of fibrous material that then floats down to Earth and and has been collected by people sometimes

collected and saved.

And um and in fact there's a there one of the biggest sightings happened during a soccer match in Florence. a couple UFOs

flew over the field and then hovered hovered over the field while during the soccer match. There were 10,000

soccer match. There were 10,000 witnesses. It It was such a dramatic

witnesses. It It was such a dramatic event. The game stopped. The players

event. The game stopped. The players

were watching the UFOs. Um that's how dramatic it was. And then angel hair was coming down from the UFOs. And um and so this is in a newspaper article and I think in our paper we have a picture

from that newspaper article showing a girl holding up some angel hair. And um

and a chemist at the time in Italy analyzed that angel hair and found that it contained um like Boris Kate silica or something like glass basically with

some kind of glass and you know but the problem is that that stuff was not very carefully collected. It was collected by

carefully collected. It was collected by people at a soccer match and then carried around with them until they could get home. So it could have dirt on it, you know, and so that could be what

they were analyzing. Um so a chemist uh Phyllis Budinger has been has studied, you know, um chemical evidence at UFO landing sites and things like this and

and angel hair is is one of the things that she's studied. And that's weirder because she has found that angel hair is basically

um caterpillar silk. Oh,

I again my hands are up. I don't know. I

I I really wish I had answer real more meaningful answers, right? I'm trying to think of a number

right? I'm trying to think of a number of solutions that might not be UFO. None

of them make a lot of sense. Like, why

would an adversarial government need to drop caterpillar silk over a football match in 1954

in Florence? But the you know the

in Florence? But the you know the if I let my brain kind of dream and imagine right there there's some sort of

you know organic material that is somehow related to unidentified aerial phenomenon like I can say that

it's very not clear why this is happening or how it's happening and how the angel hair is emitted by these object. objects. Um, our paper we have a

object. objects. Um, our paper we have a painting made by a person who witnessed this. There was a these foot long

this. There was a these foot long cylinders flew over their house and they had a pond in their property and these cylinders um were hovering over the pond

and other cylinders came in from other places and they were spinning and spewing out this angel hair which they collected and was found to be the same stuff as caterpillar silk. It's related

to it.

It's unbelievable.

I don't think anybody knows what to make of it. Right. So,

of it. Right. So,

just circling back to your colleague who, you know, you said was a bit of a a downer, is he finding anything that really is unusual that he can't explain?

He has found that um he had had some material from a purported crash site and that material he can't make radioactive.

It basically shields and absorbs all the radiation he can throw at it. And he and he had it he put it in a box with a

plutonium source for a week and took it out and it was not affected by it. So

it's really strange and that's interesting because if I wanted to make radiation shielding that's exactly what I would do. That's what you would hope for. So a spaceship with radiation

for. So a spaceship with radiation shield shielding this would be amazing radiation shielding. um whatever this

radiation shielding. um whatever this material is. So he's he's still studying

material is. So he's he's still studying it actually and we don't have that capability currently.

No, it would be very helpful if we did have it because we could create casing that would then prevent our own nuclear material from causing harm.

Yeah, it would be great to have some radiation shielding like that material.

That's interesting stuff.

Is it possible to break it down and reverse engineer it or we we don't have that capability? uh you can you can do

that capability? uh you can you can do it and he's working on getting more information about it. So he's studying it now. So um I think he's hoping to be

it now. So um I think he's hoping to be able to break it down at some point and figure out what it's doing. He has some hypothesis as to what's going on.

I mean out of all the things that we're talking about like that seems for me the most interesting like angel hair. I'm

like that's weird. It's just weird, right?

that's weird. It's just weird, right?

It's just weird but not all that practical. But this where it speaks to

practical. But this where it speaks to how a craft might move. It speaks to advancements that we need because the idea would be if they're moving around undetected

then they have more sophisticated technology than we do and we would benefit from that. So

what do you think about that m I I'm going to throw up my hands like Dr. Canude. I don't know. The first

Dr. Canude. I don't know. The first

thing I thought when I when I heard about this angel hair, was I thought of the biblical report of mana from heaven, which they think may have been some sort of um you know, kind of high

carbohydrate I believe um kind of stuff that comes off this plant that in theory could sustain you if you didn't have a lot of other nutrients. And um so the

first thing I thought was, you know, is this some sort of byproduct? Is this

some sort of, you know, I I I don't know. The idea is not necessarily, you

know. The idea is not necessarily, you know, if you want to think impossibly, if you want to like blow the lid off the box, the idea is not what is the purpose

of them dropping caterpillar silk. It's

what might be going on inside of a vessel, the byproduct of which might be this. It's not like I believe that the

this. It's not like I believe that the way that aliens are communicating with us is by throwing caterpillar silk on us and hoping we figure it out.

Right. Right.

So, it's a byproduct. It's something

going on in the craft that could be the exhaust of I'm I'm just saying that we want, you know, Yes. If there's hoof beatats, it's

know, Yes. If there's hoof beatats, it's usually horses. So if you see an

usually horses. So if you see an unidentified flying object and it's throwing, you know, caterpillar silk down, yeah, the most logical explanation is they want us to receive it and like

build a castle with it. I don't know.

But what's what often, you know, can can happen, obviously not as commonly, but it still could happen, is that we're trying to interpret the wrong thing, right? I mean, I I'm sure Dr. Kenuth,

right? I mean, I I'm sure Dr. Kenuth, you probably have this all the time.

you're focusing on one thing, but that actually might not be what's going on, much like the Epstein files and many wars around the world, right? Like,

where are we being distracted? And if

we're talking about beings that either live here or come from other, you know, galaxies or star systems, if they have that level of

sophistication of travel ability, detection ability, you know, they're they're probably not going to be as simple-minded as we are.

That's my guess.

I think there's a divide between there's some evidence that we can't quite figure out. There's the scientific work of

out. There's the scientific work of proving and trying to create an explanation which is you know deconstructing material and trying to understand the physical properties of the material trying to understand

propulsion that then feeds into the evidence and then there's theory based on you know being immersed in enough of this information to ask like what does

it mean what is the purpose and that is of course the hardest part because we don't have enough of the other two to to satis satisfy.

What are they doing? What is their intent? And what are they doing? And I

intent? And what are they doing? And I

think that can be that's probably also the hardest because if if they aren't human, then they could be thinking very differently than we are, right? Very

different motivations.

It does make us think a little bit about the spiritual texts that we've seen as clues in a way. Like why would it be about nuclear?

Why would it be that they're showing up in these particular areas? Why would it be that if the Russians are moving around material and having war games that that is the signal that they're

being drawn to? What is it about Earth that they find so interesting? Do they

have a vested interest in the evolution of Earth, the materials, the survival or not of the planet in some way? Are they benevolent

or are they, you know, harvesting? Like

these are all all big ideas. is I don't know if you know we want to spend a little bit of time just exploring sort of how you think you know not necessarily with a concrete uh proof of

any of it. The most common thing people will say is was clearly they um you know we we have some they've been here a long time. Um this sightings like this go

time. Um this sightings like this go back centuries and so if they've been here a long time then the argument usually is well if they wanted to

conquer us and colonize Earth they would have done it already. Well maybe maybe not. You don't actually know. But um the

not. You don't actually know. But um the the picture I've kind of put together that seems to describe a lot of what's going on is that they could have

discovered Earth a long time ago and have bases here where they're basically studying the biology. I mean we would we would do the same thing. We would study biology. It wasn't until um the middle

biology. It wasn't until um the middle of the last century till World War II really that humans became powerful

enough that we could really wreck the planet. You know with the nuclear

planet. You know with the nuclear weapons we could destroy the planet um with our pollution you know we are destroying the planet. So this became um

we became a problem and if you think of them as having um found earth you know earth They may have the mindset Earth is their planet, right? And we happen to

live here and um but now humans are a danger to their planet. And so we could end up in a we could end up in a conflict eventually. Um if that's the

conflict eventually. Um if that's the case. Um so it may not be that they

case. Um so it may not be that they wanted to colonize Earth. They've done

it the way they wanted to already. They

did so a long time ago. Um but but we could be a problem at this point and they could be watching us very closely to make sure that you see what we're doing and to try to

dissuade us in some ways or or whatever.

Congress had noted that with the um with the statement that they had become UFOs had become more aggressive toward our pilots in war zones in the last few

years. They've been flying at our planes

years. They've been flying at our planes and um and things like that. So Louis

Alzando had mentioned that to me as well that 2015 they had near daily insight near daily sightings um in the Persian Gulf where they were

flying sorties into Syria and in that case they actually had to fly they they would be flying to Syria from the aircraft carrier and they would have UFOs flying at the planes and then

dodging them at last minute. they were

taking that to be aggressive maneuvers.

Um, which which is very possibly what's going on. So, so that's kind of the

going on. So, so that's kind of the picture that I've kind of put together.

They they've been here a long time. They

study Earth. Um, and now we're a bit of a problem. Um, we know we know we're a

a problem. Um, we know we know we're a problem. We're we we recognize that

problem. We're we we recognize that already to some degree. So,

when was that increase in how they were interacting with pilots? Those instances

were in 2015.

It's fascinating to think about this being their planet.

Where are they? Right? We talked about, you know, potentially that they are here. They're trying to evade larger

here. They're trying to evade larger detection.

Where would they actually be?

The oceans are very poorly explored.

They're great places to hide, great places to live, actually. So I would I would guess probably in the ocean somewhere and twothirds of UFO sightings

are, you know, related to water. So and

especially with UFOs going into water, coming out of water, they could very well live in the water. I mean, living in an ocean is a great place to live.

Mammals do it all the time, but we're talking about aliens, right? Yeah. So we live on a surface

right? Yeah. So we live on a surface where you have to deal with an atmosphere. And atmospheres of planets

atmosphere. And atmospheres of planets can vary dramatically. So, you go to Venus, which is just on the edge of the habitable zone, and it the atmosphere is

800° Fahrenheit on a on a normal day, right? And then you go to Mars, um,

right? And then you go to Mars, um, which is further out on the other edge of the habitable zone, and you're looking at something like 100 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. Um so you've got

literally a thousand degree difference in atmospheric temperatures um that you would have to deal with going from planet to planet. Now if you go to an ocean a liquid water ocean water is very

common and and oceans seem to be common.

So um so you go to a liquid water planet well liquid water is only liquid from you know what 32 degrees Fahrenheit to 212 degrees Fahrenheit. So you've got a

limit more limited range of of temperatures and um and we're and you would have to worry about water pressure, but you can actually descend

to a depth where you've got pressures that you you can deal with. And um

you're shielded from you're shielded from radiation, you're shielded from solar flares, cosmic rays, you're shielded from meteorite impacts to some degree.

Are they living in in vessels underneath there? Are they able to breathe? I think

there? Are they able to breathe? I think

we have a hard time, you know, picturing things that like are not carbon based, right? Meaning,

right? Meaning, you know, I I I don't know, like I can make up any number of things like there's some detection where they can be like collapsed into, you know, water

molecules. Like I don't know. I don't

molecules. Like I don't know. I don't

know what that means.

It's been observed that craft go into the water and come out of the water. And

those those are some of the oldest sightings because they're kept in ship ships records. Um Richard Dolan in his

ships records. Um Richard Dolan in his more recent book has um lists of you know sightings like this that go back you know easily go back 200 years. So whether they live in their

years. So whether they live in their ships underwater which you could easily do or um are there cities down there um are they from there? I mean did they

evolve underwater and they're just another intelligent species on this planet that we even that's been staying away from us? Um that's possible too.

Can you talk a little bit about what role you think the government plays in the information that we're allowed to

have, the information that we should have, and talk a little bit about this age of disclosure and some of the acknowledgment that there is research

and in many cases compelling evidence that has been kept from the public. Our

governments have been interested in these things since the 1940s. The

Scandinavian sightings go back, you know, the ones that captured their attention go back to the 1930s actually.

Um, but Roswell, the Roswell crash happened in 47 along with another crash that happened two weeks later, only about 100 miles away. So you you have um

and you actually have a spike of sightings there that goes up from an average of seven sightings in the US per

day and during that week um jumps up to about 250 sightings per day across the country. Now is this because of Kenneth

country. Now is this because of Kenneth Arnold having seen these and being in the paper? Very possibly. But some of

the paper? Very possibly. But some of these sightings are very compelling with landings and hundreds of people witnessing them. And so it's

witnessing them. And so it's interesting. Something interesting was

interesting. Something interesting was going on. And whether that just captured

going on. And whether that just captured our our um attention or was actually um an increase of activity. I don't think you would have I mean you'd have to have

more information to be able to study that. But that seems to be when our

that. But that seems to be when our government became interested in this. So

there and there there has to be some people who have known that these things were non-human craft for a long time. um

Herman Oberth who's a rocketry pioneer.

He was the mentor to Verer von Braun.

He gave a talk in I think 1954 on UFOs. And in his talk he mentions

on UFOs. And in his talk he mentions that he had seen over 50 um instances of radar in data showing

that these things are traveling at speeds of he he gave a speed of 19 kilometers a second which is about um close to 40,000 miles an hour which is close to the speeds we've

estimated I estimated in the paper I wrote for the the um tic-tac UAP in the Nimttz So 40,000 to be in orbit you have to be

I mean the space station is going about 17,000 miles an hour and um and I think on the way to the moon I think the top

speed that our our um Artemis was going was something like 25,000 miles on on that order. So, so UFOs go faster than

that order. So, so UFOs go faster than Aremis went, right? And, and in fact, UFOs are basically have been measured to go the speeds of the New Horizon probe that we sent to Pluto that's going about

40,000 mph. And that's been known since

40,000 mph. And that's been known since the 1950s. So, Herman Oberth, who's

the 1950s. So, Herman Oberth, who's mentor to Verer von Braonn and working on our rocket program, um, knew this in the 1950s, and he couldn't have been the

only person who had access to that data.

So, somebody's known this for a long time. and they um covered it up for

time. and they um covered it up for whatever reason, you know, do we want and and there's probably many reasons at this point for covering it up. Um

worrying about um shocking the public because the public in 1947 wouldn't have been ready for an an idea like that. And

you're just out of World War II and now we have another bigger problem, right?

There are aliens who are more advanced than any of us.

You don't. Yeah. Americans, nobody would have been ready for that.

Yeah. I think the question is, are Americans ready now?

I don't think anybody's ready for this really. I think it's going to shock

really. I think it's going to shock things in a lot of different ways that are rather unpredictable. It's going to be a lot like CO. It's going to hit

several institutions in unpredictable ways and it just will end up breaking lots of things and I think it'll be rather um rather disruptive.

Well, there's no unifying force. There's

no way that we understand how to interact. We don't know the motives. You

interact. We don't know the motives. You

know, the virus at least you understand its motive is to replicate and expand.

Yeah, this is a problem. I mean and the question is what are they going to disc what we don't know what's all known and my my guess at this point in talking to people on the inside you know who are

able to share certain things I don't think we know that much and I don't think they're going to be able to answer many of the same questions you've asked me I don't think that's actually known

um I asked I asked Lou Alzando at one point we had a meeting of scientists with some government people and one of the questions was how many non-human

craft are operating in on Earth at any given time. It's rough number, right? Is

given time. It's rough number, right? Is

it 10? Is it 100? A thousand, 10,000. Um

couldn't answer that. They I don't think they know. So, they don't they don't

they know. So, they don't they don't know the simplest answers. You know, the things that you would want to know. And

I think that's going to be a problem with disclosure is that um it's going to raise so many questions that nobody has the answer to. which is why scientists should have been involved in this in the

first place.

There's been a lot of conversation about three Atlas. We got to speak um with Avi

three Atlas. We got to speak um with Avi Lobe. What is your perspective on the

Lobe. What is your perspective on the peculiarity of that particular object?

We ought to be studying these things like crazy. Um this is an interstellar

like crazy. Um this is an interstellar object. Let's get all the data we can on

object. Let's get all the data we can on it. No astronomers to just say, "Well,

it. No astronomers to just say, "Well, it's a comet." You don't know it's a comet. We don't. And what's this comet

comet. We don't. And what's this comet like? And clearly it's different. um

like? And clearly it's different. um

there's a lot of differences and it's a strange thing. He's absolutely right

strange thing. He's absolutely right about that. There's a lot of there's

about that. There's a lot of there's several anomalies and um we should be following these as close as we can. Um

they should be studied carefully.

One of the key anomalies is that it only has 4% water vapor on its return from around the sun, which is far too little.

Exactly. It's not a comet. Clearly not a comet. Comets are big, dirty snowballs.

comet. Comets are big, dirty snowballs.

There ought to be nickel and iron something I something there was a process at some point that was able to separate nickel from iron which is hard to do. So why is that the case? Yeah,

to do. So why is that the case? Yeah,

these these are all questions that need to be answered. I totally agree with him. Yeah, it says here that it contains

him. Yeah, it says here that it contains nickel but no iron which is deeply strange because iron and nickel occur together in nature which for many people we don't know that are adjacent on the

periodic table and separating them requires a very difficult process. So

you're thinking did that happen naturally?

It's hard to imagine it happening naturally. So now you're now you're

naturally. So now you're now you're stuck in the place where he goes where you know maybe it's not a natural object and and then that's and then if it's not a natural object it

has some form of external influence you're like well let's not jump to conclusions but what is that?

Yeah.

The other thing that's peculiar for anyone who hasn't been following is that it both uh has a tail and an anti-tail simultaneously. What does that mean? So

simultaneously. What does that mean? So

comets typically have tails. So this is material being blown off by the solar winds. And there's actually two tails.

winds. And there's actually two tails.

There's an ion tail having to do with the charged particles going one way and then the non uncharged particles going a different way. Um so so but that's what

different way. Um so so but that's what we call generally the tail. Now an

anti-tail goes out ahead of the object which comets don't have anti-tails. So

why is there an anti-tail? It's not

obvious why you would have that.

Do we see any other objects that have anti-tales? Like where does our

anti-tales? Like where does our understanding of an anti-tail come from?

I don't think there are other objects with anti. I've not heard of them

with anti. I've not heard of them before. So

before. So I think there's a lot of people who are like those three things are peculiar and yet the people who are the best and most

capable of trying to understand those peculiarities seem uninterested in in exploring them. It very well could be

exploring them. It very well could be that it's something that we're seeing for the first time. That doesn't mean that I mean by definition the word alien

means other, right? It's something

that's foreign.

I don't jump to the conclusion that it's an alien craft either, but it's an interesting object that's clearly different than things we have in our solar system, so we should be studying

it. I wonder if you can speak just a

it. I wonder if you can speak just a little bit about how you approach things like conversations around remote

viewing, conversations around telepathy, right? Where where both fans and, you

right? Where where both fans and, you know, I'm very very skeptical of some of the claims that many people are taking from the telepathy tapes. What's your

sort of perspective in how in general we need to be having conversations about things like remote viewing or telepathy?

These are things that just haven't been studied carefully.

Um they've been studied to some degree and and and the data is sometimes interesting, right? But it isn't

interesting, right? But it isn't believed um by the general scientific community. is dismissed by the general

community. is dismissed by the general scientific community because it doesn't fit into their worldview which is I think a problem because there's

lots of things we don't understand and um and we should be studying these things and now it doesn't matter that every it doesn't mean that every scientist needs

to study them. It means that somebody should be studying them and that church person should be left alone and not made fun of and allowed to study them. I

think that's what what I mean by that. I

mean, take take take something that's not so different um and and especially with the in considering telepathy with the non-verbal um autistic kids.

Santismantism is strange. It's well documented, well

is strange. It's well documented, well understood, and it's strange. Um and

I've heard people say the craziest scientists say the craziest things about them. perhap I've heard this said many

them. perhap I've heard this said many times by non people who aren't in biology.

There could be a gene for playing piano.

I'm like how the hell is there a gene?

When did that evolve on the African savannah as people love to say, right?

Who evolved a gene for playing piano?

Nobody. That did not happen. So now how now you have to explain this. Um or you have um some other strange cases.

There's a there was a what a 20-year-old kid from Australia, I believe. He had

taken a course in elementary, you know, a first year course in Chinese at one point. Uh gets into a car accident in a

point. Uh gets into a car accident in a coma, comes out of the coma, unable to speak English, can only speak Chinese, and he's better than your one Chinese.

So now, where does this come from? You know, how do you explain this? This is tough.

These are tough things. And I think they need to be studied. That's that's what I think about them. Um,

study it, try it. Um, the remote viewing, I actually tried that myself.

And then that's interesting because there are times when it works. Um, how

do I know it works? Cuz because seeing is believing. If you do it and you see

is believing. If you do it and you see it in your mind and then you see the picture you were supposed to view and it's the same thing, then I know it works sometimes. It doesn't work all the

works sometimes. It doesn't work all the time. And it's very was actually really

time. And it's very was actually really interesting because I was so I had this app on my phone. I

was doing the remote viewing app and when I just was playing around with it just to start I thought well let's just see if this works. I'm just going to try it right. Why not? And um I could get it

it right. Why not? And um I could get it right twothirds of the time where 50 where it should have been a 5050 chance.

Yeah that's 66 and 2/3%. That is more than 50.

It's more than 50 but it's not really that significant. Right. So, but I was

that significant. Right. So, but I was doing it pretty consistently and I thought again thought of my colleague Matthew. I thought, "Okay, I got to get

Matthew. I thought, "Okay, I got to get the statistics up so then I can prove to Matthew then I can show Matthew and he'll believe me, right?" Because there were times when I knew that I was seeing what I was supposed to be seeing. And um

so I knew that it worked just because I had experienced it, but I couldn't prove it to him. So I wanted to get the statistics up. So once I had that

statistics up. So once I had that motivation to get the statistics up, my ability dropped. I mean plummeted.

ability dropped. I mean plummeted.

plummeted. I went from getting two out of three right to getting three out of 14 right.

Statistic more statistically significant in the wrong direction. And I thought this is better evidence that it's a real phenomena because when I'm when I'm

trying to do it, I'm failing. And then I thought and that makes it really hard to study because if you've got somebody who's trying to do it, you're going to

get more failure. So now how do you study something like that that I don't have any answer for that.

Can you explain to people who might not understand why that's proof that there is a phenomenon when something goes in a statistically significant direction in the opposite direction than you want

when you put effort in. What might be going on? I mean I have my own theories

going on? I mean I have my own theories but go ahead.

Neuroscience-wise I don't know what's going on. Well I really don't know

going on. Well I really don't know what's going on physics-wise. I don't

know how that's possible. And in fact, I I I doubt that I'm that I'm remote viewing a JPEG file, JPEG encoded file on a computer. I don't think that's

what's happening at all. I think it's actually more like um seeing my phone in the future. The way the app works is you

the future. The way the app works is you give get a blank screen, you get a file number which corresponds to a a photograph that you're supposed to be remote viewing. And then once you've

remote viewing. And then once you've drawn a picture or taken notes or whatever you're doing to help remind yourself what you're seeing, um it then

presents two photographs. One is the target and one's the non-target. So you

have a 50/50 chance of guessing which one. And you actually the app actually

one. And you actually the app actually has a slider so you can say I'm pretty sure it was this or you can change your how sure you are. So, so at the core, at the root though, there's a 50/50 chance

of getting it right. Um, so getting it two out of three times is is clearly better than 50/50, but getting it wrong, getting it right only um three out of 14

times is far below what you would expect from just guessing. So,

you just presented the possibility that you are somehow accessing an image from the future. That's

astounding, right? Like that's a very powerful notion. And the reason that you

powerful notion. And the reason that you know one could explain for when you try harder that you do worse is that whatever seems to be involved from all

of the variety of people we've spoken to, whatever seems to be involved in this aspect of extrensory perception or of seeing in a way, right, that is beyond the way that we see with our

eyeballs, right? The notion being that

eyeballs, right? The notion being that there's some sort of passive state, some dropping in state, some meditative state, right? A lot of people use these

state, right? A lot of people use these states to access this information that when we are not actively cognitively

working on it, there's a place that we drop into that makes us more receptive to information that exists on that kind of energetic plane.

Yeah. And it's not a bad theory. And and

I think I'm seeing it in the future because there have been times when I've actually drawn both images in the proper order, the target and the non-target.

I've done that several times. And in

fact, I did an experiment with my daughter. We both did at the same time.

daughter. We both did at the same time.

I drew the target and she drew the non-target. I have to try this. I need

non-target. I have to try this. I need

to try this.

We should absolutely try it. But also,

can we explore this notion of seeing into the future in this scenario? the

future exists and you're just hopping forward in your mind's eye.

I have no idea how that would work. I

mean, I don't as a physicist, this is a tough thing to actually say, right? But

I mean, but this is what that's the only way I can explain what I was drawing and seeing in my mind when I was doing it, right? I I saw what was presented on the

right? I I saw what was presented on the phone in the proper order. So I think I have a easier time believing that I'm see somehow seeing my phone in the

future, seeing the image in the future than I h I have an easier time believing that than I do believing that I have some knowledge of the variable states in

a computer program that's going to present those images to me. story,

but um it's like whi which is less unbelievable, which is less unbelievable. And seeing

in the future to me feels a little less unbelievable, but maybe it's not. I

don't know. That's it. I think there's also an interesting complication here that it's being presented by a computer versus, you know, the examples of remote viewing that we've heard where there

have been military psychics and intuitives using that to solve uh crime or to gather intel. That was sort of before the computer era. And what they

were doing is trying to tap into the field or consciousness of an individual or an organization and get data. To

think that the computer is going to send something and what is the variable chance of that digital code seems like a harder thing if we're imagining that

consciousness uh exists on multiple planes. Like the computer consciousness

planes. Like the computer consciousness seems harder to crack.

Yeah, I would have a hard time imagining how that's going to work. How how how am I viewing how am I able to get information about the variable states

inside a computer? I mean these are the amount of charge on certain transistors inside a computer that is billions of transistors. That's would be strange.

transistors. That's would be strange.

Yeah.

No, the most logical explanation as we're speaking to a physics professor is that time is not linear and there are ways to access time in the future and bring that information back to the

present. That's the most logical

present. That's the most logical explanation, which is which is hard because I don't know how that would work, but it still feels it feels easier. Yeah.

Yeah. Why do you believe what has happened in your life that makes you believe that there's

something beyond right the concrete reality of our existence that we are programmed to invest in as Jeff Crap would call it. I had a

flip. I was flipped at one point where I

flip. I was flipped at one point where I had we had an experience where it just broke everything.

Oh, I was going to bed um very late and my my son was um my son Henry was uh almost 2 years old. He could walk and

talk a little bit, right? He we took the side off his crib and lowered it so he could get in and out of bed. But this

meant we had to put up a gate by his door so he couldn't get out in the middle of the night and hurt himself.

And um so we had a gate by the door and he would sometimes stand by the gate but he's you know 2 years old so he's like this right looking through the gate itself. So I was going to bed very late

itself. So I was going to bed very late one night and I'll give you all the caveats. I'm going from a brightly lit

caveats. I'm going from a brightly lit room to a dim hallway and it's 2:00 a.m.

I'm half asleep. I'm tired and I'm very tired. And I'm coming down the hall and

tired. And I'm coming down the hall and I see what I thought was Henry standing at the gate. And um and as I get closer,

I realize this is not a 2-year-old boy.

It's a 5-year-old boy. The kid's a good, you know, chest and shoulders above the gate.

Do you have another child in the home?

Nope. Just one. Just at the time it was just my son Henry. And so it's just him.

He's He's supposed to be in bed. In his

room is standing this boy, a 5-year-old boy. I get I am confused and and

boy. I get I am confused and and worried. And I come up to him. I'm like,

worried. And I come up to him. I'm like,

"Henry, is that you? What are you doing, Henry?" And and the kid wasn't looking

Henry?" And and the kid wasn't looking at me. He was kind of looking off to the

at me. He was kind of looking off to the side. And I got across the hallway from

side. And I got across the hallway from him. I mean, how how wide's the hallway?

him. I mean, how how wide's the hallway?

It's like 4 feet, right? So, I'm

literally 4 feet away from this kid. And

it's clearly not my son. He's a

5-year-old boy. He has black hair. He's

wearing a white shirt with long sleeves.

And he's looking he's looking off to the left. And I was like, "Henry, is" And by

left. And I was like, "Henry, is" And by this time, I'm scared cuz I'm like, "I don't know what's happening." So, I've got my arms crossed like a defensive, you know, position. And I've leaned up against the wall like, "Henry, is that

you? Are you all right?" And the boy

you? Are you all right?" And the boy looks at me and he looks his eyes are wide. He looks scared. The boy is scared

wide. He looks scared. The boy is scared and he looks at me and I think that made me feel more scared. He looks at me and he's just scared and doesn't say anything. But he he made did the

anything. But he he made did the weirdest maneuver. He did this. He had

weirdest maneuver. He did this. He had

his was holding on to the gate and he and he very slowly let go of the gate. I

think in retrospect I think he was trying not to make a sudden movement and then he just backs into the shadows with his hands like that. Right. and he

backs into the shadows and I'm just like, "All right." Then the parent kicks in. The father kicks in. There's a

in. The father kicks in. There's a

stranger in my kid's bedroom. The the

whole game changes, right? And I was like, "Who is this kid?" And I go running out the door. I literally jump over the gate ready to grab a 5-year-old. And there's no one there.

5-year-old. And there's no one there.

There's nobody there. I look around the room. I check on Henry. Henry's asleep

room. I check on Henry. Henry's asleep

in bed, tucked in, fine.

I look everywhere. I look under the bed.

I look in the drawers of the dresser.

I'm looking through the closet. I

There's nobody in this room. And then

I'm like, "Look, look, Kevin, it is 2:00 a.m. You need to get your ass to bed.

a.m. You need to get your ass to bed.

You're half asleep. You're

hallucinating. Just go to bed.

Everything's fine." So I So I check on Henry again. He's fine. I go leave the

Henry again. He's fine. I go leave the room and just go next door to the bathroom. The bathroom's adjacent to it.

bathroom. The bathroom's adjacent to it.

I would have already burnt the house down with everyone in it. I would have been like, "This incarnation of our existence is over."

I just convinced myself I had hallucinated, right? I'm just dreaming

hallucinated, right? I'm just dreaming while awake, that's all. So, I go next door to the bathroom and I'm brushing my teeth and I hear all of a sudden Henry starts shouting, "Mommy, daddy, help,

help." And I like run out of the

help." And I like run out of the bathroom, jump over the gate again for the second time. Henry, what's wrong?

And he's sitting up in bed. He's very

upset. He's crying. I'm like, "What's wrong?" He goes, "Daddy, there's someone

wrong?" He goes, "Daddy, there's someone in my room."

No.

And I was And at first I got worried and I was like, "No, no, no, no. There's no

one in the room. You checked. You

hallucinated." And I said to Henry, I said to Henry, "It wasn't there's nobody in the room. It was me. I was here just a few minutes ago and I checked on you.

That was me." And he goes, "No, Daddy, it wasn't you. It was a boy. There's a

boy in my room."

No.

I was like, "Oh, no, no, no.

You can't say that. That is not cool.

That is very uncool. And yeah, there's a boy in my room. And I And and then I'm scared. I'm like, now I don't know

scared. I'm like, now I don't know what's going on.

I'm still scared and it didn't happen to me.

And And I said, "Did he hurt you?" "No,

he didn't hurt me." And I said, "Well, why are you upset?" He goes, "I don't know. There's a boy in my room." I said,

know. There's a boy in my room." I said, "Well, what was he doing?" And he goes, "Standing." And I said, "Where was he

"Standing." And I said, "Where was he standing?" "By the door."

standing?" "By the door."

And I was like, "Well, [ __ ] that's where I saw him standing, too. I saw a boy standing there, too, just 3 minutes ago."

ago." And And I So I was like, "All right, do you want me to sleep in here with you tonight?" He goes, "Yes, please." So I

tonight?" He goes, "Yes, please." So I went down the hall to get a we had an inflated air mattress in case he needed someone to sleep in there with him. So I

brought the air mattress back, laid it next to his bed.

I lay down on it and he's lying down and I'm kind of rubbing his back and he's getting all drowsy eyed and all of a sudden his brow furrows a bit and he goes, "There he is, Daddy. He's right

behind you." And I roll over and there's no one there. And I rolled back and I said, "Henry, I don't see anybody." And

he goes, "Daddy, I don't know. He was

It's like before he was there and then he wasn't there." And it was like It's like that. That's it. We're out of here.

like that. That's it. We're out of here.

I'm done.

Do you still live in that house?

No, not anymore. God bless it.

So, I took him next door to our bedroom, put him in our bed, and my wife roused a bit. I said, she goes, "Why are you in

bit. I said, she goes, "Why are you in here with Henry, and I said, "He's sleeping in here with us tonight, and I don't want to talk about it till morning." That was it. And And he was up

morning." That was it. And And he was up before we I was. And so she asked him what happened, and he told her and and and then I woke then she asked me about and I told her what happened. Yeah.

And then she divorced you and burned the house down.

No, she did it. But

what was what did she say? eventually

moved that I mean she was kind kind of freaked out by it and she had two people telling her the same story and it was the and that's what broke me was the fact that he saw the same thing and u

now what do you what do you do and I did I told some of my colleagues in the physics department about it cuz I was upset the last thing I want is attention about this certainly not that I was

worried because now in my mind a person can just appear in my son's bedroom at any time.

How do you deal with that? What do how do I know that he's safe at any given moment? That was what I worried about. I

moment? That was what I worried about. I

didn't I did not sleep for like two years. I literally would just stay up

years. I literally would just stay up all night and check on him and then I would go to sleep. I would teach afternoon classes and I would just sleep in the morning and go to my classes.

Did you ever see the child again?

No.

And your son never saw him?

No.

Did your son grow up to look like that?

I mean, I can't even ask it without it making me cry. Was it your son in the future?

He didn't look exactly like that kid.

No, I don't know who that kid was. And I

And I sometimes worry about that. I'm

like, if is that a person? Is that And what is their life like? What happened?

What happened to them? Cuz he was clearly scared.

Was the clothing of the child that you saw modern clothing? Did it feel of this time period?

It didn't look modern. It looked

different, but I don't think it was necessarily old either. It was just different.

Are you comfortable with saying I'm a physicist and I saw a ghost?

I don't say that because I don't know what the hell a ghost is, so I can't really say it was a ghost. I can tell you what happened and I'm comfortable telling people what happened because it

happened and and I had to deal with it.

That's really important nuance. You know

what you know is that something happened. You don't you don't know how

happened. You don't you don't know how to explain it, right? But the and we could have if your

right? But the and we could have if your son had not reported what he reported, we could have very easily said you had let's say a first episode of a

hallucinatory, you know, sleepwalking experience.

I had totally convinced myself of that.

What by the time I went to the bathroom, I was like, I am clearly hallucinating.

Just go to bed. Right? And even if it's never happened to you, that could have been a late adult onset, you know, of a pattern that we very rarely see. Right?

So these are all the like impossible impossible impossible things. But the

fact is you now have had a human experience that no one is allowed to tell you did not happen because you heard your son report that you

experienced it. Could it be that some of

experienced it. Could it be that some of the details have morphed? Yes. But we're

opening a door, right, to this kind of possibility?

I took notes in my journal about it right away because I didn't want it to morph. But it was Yeah, it was it was

morph. But it was Yeah, it was it was upsetting. I mean, it's an upsetting

upsetting. I mean, it's an upsetting thing to have to worry about this. And

you know, I'll make the joke, who you going to call?

Ser seriously, there's nobody you can talk to about it and there's nobody you can help. So you're it's a very helpless

can help. So you're it's a very helpless feeling, a very worrisome thing.

Oh, it gave me a lot of sympathy for people who have had experiences like or claim to have had experiences like this, you know, both in both with respect to what

you might call ghosts or even the alien abduction business. I have a lot of

abduction business. I have a lot of sympathy for those people because there's no one who can help you and that's that's worrisome. How did it

change your outlook about exploring phenomenon outside of the physical realm?

Well, because it broke my worldview. I

was, you know, I talked to some of my physicist friends and I said, you know, my colleagues at the department. I said,

"All right, this happened like last night. What do I do? What do I What do

night. What do I do? What do I What do What do you think? What do you think happened? What do you think this is?"

happened? What do you think this is?"

And and none of them had any answers to it. And I think it it highlighted to me

it. And I think it it highlighted to me that I don't know much about the physical world as I thought I did. It's

a hard thing to admit. I mean, I've been a physicist now for 30 years and I would have hoped I I had up until that point I had thought I had a pretty good handle on how things worked until that happened

and then it was like all right clearly I don't know anything. So, when I first moved into the house, I had um we had were able we lifted we rented the top floor of the house and we had access to

the attic. And so, we were putting boxes

the attic. And so, we were putting boxes in the attic when we f the first day we moved in. And I remember the first time

moved in. And I remember the first time I walked into the attic, I had this cold shiver and I thought, "There's a 5-year-old boy who lives here." That pop thought came into my head and I was like, "Oh, Kevin, don't do that to

yourself. You're going to scare

yourself. You're going to scare yourself. That's stupid." I chastised

yourself. That's stupid." I chastised myself and and I hated going up in the attic because I always felt like I was being watched and I didn't like the

attic. And so I if my wife wanted me to

attic. And so I if my wife wanted me to get something out of a box from the attic, I wouldn't put the box back in the attic, I just left it on the stairs.

And if after about 9 months, we had a there was a whole the stairs had boxes on it. And she one day discovered that

on it. And she one day discovered that she saw the boxes and I didn't want to admit that I was afraid of the attic. So

I you she goes, "Why are all these boxes there?" And I I lied. I told her that

there?" And I I lied. I told her that there were I saw a bat in the attic. And

so um Oh, yeah. Okay. Don't go in the attic. I'm like, "Yes, I won't go in the

attic. I'm like, "Yes, I won't go in the attic. It's perfect."

attic. It's perfect."

Wow.

Yeah. So I had a weird feeling about the attic, but that's the only relation, you know, the 5-year-old boy in the attic.

Was he related to the 5-year-old boy I saw there? Was that why I hallucinated

saw there? Was that why I hallucinated him? But I didn't hallucinate him. So

him? But I didn't hallucinate him. So

it's hard to get your head around. And I

had somebody suggest, well, maybe it's a shared hallucination. I was like, but

shared hallucination. I was like, but that's not a thing either.

That's not that's a whole other phenomena that we also don't believe.

So, yeah, it's a tough one.

I don't know.

So, I asked my landlord because I knew my landlord had lived up there for some time. And I finally, it was 10 years

time. And I finally, it was 10 years later, I emailed him and asked him, "Did you ever, we had some strange experiences in that house. Did you have anything strange happen?" And he said

that he was painting once when between tenants and you know the place is all cleared out so he's just painting and he was time to leave and lock the place up but

he couldn't find his keys and he looked all over the house there. The keys are not in the house and he would have left them on the kitchen counter and they weren't there. And so he looked he was

weren't there. And so he looked he was looking and looking and couldn't find them. and then finally thought he said

them. and then finally thought he said he had a weird thought that he should check the attic.

And he hadn't been up in the attic, but he decided he would check the attic. So,

he went upstairs to the attic, opened the attic door, and the keys were there on a box right in front of the door.

And he said that happened twice.

That's what he told me about the What do you make of it now? Like, you've

had a while to reflect on this. I don't

know how long ago this was. This is at least however how many years?

Well, he was two. He's se he's 18 now.

So, so it's 16 years ago.

So, it's 16 years. You've explored a lot of the unknown. You I think the cultural conversation about extrensory has changed.

What do you take from that experience now? What do you think actually

now? What do you think actually happened?

I don't know what happened. And and and when I do think about it, I think I worry more about the boy than I do anything because if he was a real person

in some sense in any sense or a real consciousness, then I worry about him. I

mean, he was clearly scared.

Maybe he was scared by a grown ass man in his room.

Exactly. I mean, he he could have appeared. I mean, what if what if he's

appeared. I mean, what if what if he's even maybe dreaming, lucid dreaming, and he appears in a strange room, and then this man approaches him, calls him Henry, and then, you know, and then

jumps into the room at him. I mean, for the kid, it could have been terrifying.

And I worry I think I worry more about that now than I do somebody disappearing in the house. But but my son also is now 18 and he's not a 2-year-old baby

anymore, so that's different, too.

He can see his own ghosts and manage them. No, but I think it's interesting

them. No, but I think it's interesting how much of the emotional content remains of that kind of experience because the fact is these experiences,

they don't just exist on a physical plane. They exist on some energetic

plane. They exist on some energetic emotional plane as well. Some imprint

was made on you from this experience.

And I think that's why I'm more sympathetic to people who have had experiences like that. I I listen to them and I'm you know, are do I always believe them?

No. No, not always. It's sometimes

really hard to believe, but um but who am I to say? I mean, I've had that weird thing happen to me. So, sure, maybe something weird happened to them. It's

it's I think that a little more acceptance, we could all do with a little more acceptance. I think um we might learn

acceptance. I think um we might learn something.

Well said. Um Dr. Kevin Canu, thank you so much for being here, for sharing so openly.

This was really really fun and we just really appreciate you um so much and and your time today.

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

I've really enjoyed it.

What was happening for him in that house parallels what could be happening here on Earth. Humans have moved in to a

on Earth. Humans have moved in to a house that has already been occupied.

And the real residents are hiding in the shadows, popping out occasionally, being annoyed by the new occupants who are kind of

wrecking the place, making a lot of noise, and every now and again they need a shakeup.

And that's basically what happened with him and his house. That kid already lived there. I mean, I

lived there. I mean, I they had no business moving in. They

needed to have a ceremony to send him back and help him transition. He was a little stuck.

You know why this planet that we live on is mostly water? Because that's where the aliens live.

And here we saunter out of the ocean by our own independent process of evolution. and we decide to destroy the

evolution. and we decide to destroy the whole planet because we want faster AI computing.

Also, maybe we got kicked out of the ocean. We didn't saunter out. There

ocean. We didn't saunter out. There

wasn't room for all of us in the ocean.

We got kicked out of the ocean, hence tadpoles. We're basically we are the

tadpoles. We're basically we are the tadpole of the living beings of this planet. Maybe the next phase of

planet. Maybe the next phase of evolution for humanity is to go back into the oceans.

Whatever's in there can travel at speeds that we cannot calculate.

They're the hovercraft seem to emanate radiation and they can both stop and start cars, but only if they're not diesel.

Doesn't the radiation from their crafts that live underwater affect the animals? Like, how do they not sunburn a whale?

How do they not sunburn a whale? I mean,

you could ask many versions of that, but I was thinking about I'm going to loop all the way back. I'm going to loop back to cattle mutilation

that he and his classmates had witnessed. And a professor was like,

witnessed. And a professor was like, "Oh, yeah. It was probably the aliens."

"Oh, yeah. It was probably the aliens."

A professor of physics. And he said the guy left the room and they laughed. They

just laughed their butts off is I believe what he said because the thought that a physics professor would say, "Oh yeah, cattle mutilations happen." Yeah,

it happens all the time. It's likely

aliens and they laugh this guy out of the room. So what happens with cattle

the room. So what happens with cattle mutilations? And I have done some

mutilations? And I have done some independent investigating. The way that

independent investigating. The way that these cattle are mutilated, it is precise surgical level

serration.

There are organs removed with no other damage to surrounding organs. It's often

the removal of the tongue and like the gonads.

Do you remember what happened when we were in the backyard and there was a collection of animal organs?

You know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna categorize that as falling under the impossible because what I said is there

is no blood. There is no evidence of any animal being killed here.

Even if the animal were killed elsewhere, what kind of predator could carve out organs perfectly and transport

them by beak? Right. I'm thinking

they're flying like a some sophisticated falcon. And then they're going to place

falcon. And then they're going to place organs in close proximity to where other animals hang out, like the dogs and the deer

that hang out in the neighborhood. What

did that? So, I'm talking about cattle mutilations because these are things that like we want to be like, I don't know, but I'm bringing it all the way back.

This is a first for us on MBB.

Uh, but I think what we should really be focused on was who cleaned up those organs.

We have a photo of those organs, which I do think we may need to offer on Substack. You You cleaned up the organs.

Substack. You You cleaned up the organs.

That was an impossibly unbelievable episode. So, uh, check us out over on

episode. So, uh, check us out over on Substack for not only the organs, but so much more. And from our breakdown to the

much more. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see

you next time.

Break down. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neurosience

for you. She's got a neurosience or twoiction and now she's going to break down. So,

break down. She's going to break it down.