“Aliens Invented Religion To Control Humanity!” -Top Philosopher Jason Jorjani

[Music] Immediately before the Renaissance, you had these huge UFO battles over various European cities. Huge triangular craft,

European cities. Huge triangular craft, spheres of various colors attacking each other, some of them falling from out of the sky. What a lot of people are

the sky. What a lot of people are concerned about, including people in the deep state of our own government, is that

the bad guys won. In the struggle over reshaping human history, we wound up losing a rebellion against a

control system that abides to this day.

Who is actually in the driver's seat when it comes to these sort of scientific paradigm shifts? Who is

pumping these ideas through these architects?

The religious control system on the planet.

And so what is that? This this thing is very similar to a thing that happened in our biblical records where a Lord presented Moses with a pattern to build a tabernacle. He they came out of the

a tabernacle. He they came out of the sky. They handed him stone tablets. And

sky. They handed him stone tablets. And

this phenomena that's taking place today is as old as our history. At the time the black plague breaks out, there are many UFO sightings. There are sightings of objects that land in fields.

Mhm. It was so prominent that hysteria broke out about it in the French court and Charlemagne was considering declaring war on the tyrants of the air.

Three men and a woman were seen descending from these aerial ships. The

entire city gathered about them, saying that they were magicians sent by Charlemagne's enemy to destroy the French harvest. The plague broke out

French harvest. The plague broke out only after these people would land in the fields and they would go around with these hoods on and these spray cans and

these guys would walk and deliver doortodoor service spraying the doors of individual homes where then the plague would break out.

Well, who are these people exactly?

Ingos is being tasked to remote view the moon. And here's what he saw there. He

moon. And here's what he saw there. He

saw tall Nordic people conducting slave labor on the moon. What does that say about who these people are? Uh, number

one, it says that they're people. I went

into another room where there was a chair.

A man came in while I was trying to find a way out there. And this was a a humanlook person. They had pass in a

humanlook person. They had pass in a crowd, this individual and on Earth.

[Music] Different parts of the brain have different activities. But you know that,

different activities. But you know that, don't you?

[Music] Maybe you should interview me.

[Music] Jason Resa Georgiani, thank you for joining me.

I can't believe I made it into heaven with Jesse Michaels.

I know. But did you think you were you weren't going to make it? Do you think Where do you think Do you think you were more of a purgatory guy or what was your Well, I mean, yesterday was definitely purgatory. I tell you, you know, I've

purgatory. I tell you, you know, I've flown a lot and to have two airplanes breakdown. Yeah.

breakdown. Yeah.

And a 7-hour delay.

Yes.

Uh it was a little bit weird.

It's super weird. Well, that's the perfect segue. Weirdness in reality. uh

perfect segue. Weirdness in reality. uh

for what I want to cover with you because I think you're one of the few people who studies UFO history and the nuts and bolts side, but you also kind of understand some of the deeper

underpinnings and architecture of what's going on. I think the there's like the

going on. I think the there's like the kind of, you know, it's like the bell curve or something. If you're like kind of really dumb and normie, like you don't think anything's going all AAM's

razor like, you know, kind of, you know, there nothing to see here. And then you get into the like middle of the curve, it's like only nuts and bolts. It's

like, you know, all just saucers in a hanger. And then once you get deep

hanger. And then once you get deep enough or something, you know, on the on the right side of the bell curve, it's it's consciousness is somehow extremely

fundamental to all of this and you get into weird stuff around secret societies and psychic warfare and it gets weird

and so it feels like you you are really deep into all of that stuff.

Yeah. You know, one thing I would take exception to in terms of the bell curve uh analogy there is that I basically agree with what you're saying except I

think that there's a place on the other side of the bell curve from where the normies are who deny that anything much is going on at all. Um and then people

who let's say have read Carl Young on UFOs and appreciate uh the extent to which this phenomenon involves the co-constitution

of physical reality by consciousness and so on and so forth. There's a place on the other side of that bell curve where someone can as it were fall off the deep end and I think it's also a

psychological defense mechanism. you can

wind up uh developing such an abstract meta interpretation of these phenomena that you're actually oluding or

occultting some more tangible aspects of it that are deeply disturbing. And so

that acts also I think both as a psychological defense mechanism for the particular researcher who may want to interpret this all as like the contean

thing in itself which we will never know and it's like uh yes you know it's intrusions into our reality and our limited frame of interpretation right

based on human consciousness the denial of our capacity to ultimately discern what's going on with this phenomenon can also be a way to defer

responsibility for dealing with some very tangible things that are going on that are deeply disturbing and that have very serious sociological and political implications.

I couldn't agree more. I think some some people who are so far off the deep end in the consciousness realm are there because it's unfalsifiable because it's like impossible to study because it really doesn't even touch our

consensus reality. So, you don't need to

consensus reality. So, you don't need to justify it. it turns into its own sort

justify it. it turns into its own sort of uh uh cult. But you said something very interesting there. You said uh there's some deeply disturbing things going on in just the kind of more prosaic nuts and bolts, you know,

version of the UFO story. What do you mean by that?

Let me come to that in a moment. But

before we, you know, scare the be Jesus hat of the the listeners right off the bat, let me give a little bit more historical context for what I was saying.

Yes.

So without naming names, Kant has become I think very important to some people who have taken a very abstract approach to interpreting what's going on with the

UAP phenomenon. And if you look at

UAP phenomenon. And if you look at Kant's own Emanuel Kant's own life, here's a guy and by the way I wrote about this in um my first book Prometheus and Atlas. There's a whole

chapter where I discuss uh Daycart and Kant and basically the constitution of the world picture of the age of enlightenment right and the thing about

Kant is that in his youth he actually took the time and care to read the entirety of Emanuel Swedenberg's Arcana Coalstia the secrets of heaven

which has all kinds of accounts of extraterrestrials living on various planets and different gradations of existence right and planes means of being and so on so forth. And there's

also more significantly a ton about sigh abilities in in that book, you know, about uh clairvoyance and telekinesis and so on and so forth.

Well, Kant reads all this and then he writes the groundwork of the metaphysics of morals in a way that develops an abstraction

based on Swedenborg. He's using

Swedenborg, but then he's warping the metaphysical structure of Swedenborg's work in order to construct an unknowable

reality beyond the veil of appearances that's conditioned by the limits of our own consciousness.

And if you read his earliest writings, which he suppressed in his own lifetime, Kant admits that the reason that he did this is that the stuff in Swedenborg is so disturbing that it would destabilize

society, including on a political level.

So what Kant wants to do is create this metaphysical model that allows him to define what he calls a kingdom of ends where each human being is an end in

himself, a moral agent equal to every other person. And then based on this he

other person. And then based on this he can frame this categorical imperative that you should never use any other person as a means and every person should be treated as an end in himself.

Right? It's like the, you know, the, you know, Archimedian point, uh, of his whole moral system. Well, he does this by misappropriating and distorting

Swedenborg and covering over both the um, psychic and and telekinetic uh, accounts in Swedenborg's writings and also the accounts of, you know, various

forms of extraterrestrial intelligence.

And I see the same move being made today in certain sectors of the UAP conversation.

Well, that it's fascinating. I mean,

that's a great book, Atlas, Prometheus and Atlas. Everybody should buy it. It's

and Atlas. Everybody should buy it. It's

this sort of sweeping philosophical treatise where you go through uh the advent of empiricism and and reason and uh you know the enlightenment and

figures like uh Kant and Andart and in Kant's case I think you also say that like uh the occult the reason to keep the occult the occult or sort of

separate somehow or or you know off limits is because uh it would involve a storming of of heaven or something And um did he have a political motive in

doing this? Because with Decart, I think

doing this? Because with Decart, I think you say that he was a Jesuit spy. And

maybe Deart was literally a Jesuit spy. In

other words, Decart was in the employ of people who were holier than the pope. In

other you know that phrase holier than the pope. These were agents of the

the pope. These were agents of the Vatican that were acting against the uh sort of like status quo modus operandi of the

Catholic Church in France. They were

like uh more zealous than the pope and they were Jesuits. And they had sent Renee Decart to infiltrate the Rosacrruian order

and to develop a false scientific paradigm that would reduce everything in the physical world

to uh basically mechanical causality.

which then has the effect of relegating everything that can't be encompassed within a mechanistic grid and framework of interpretation into the realm of the spiritual

which is in the domain of the Catholic Church. Right? So then the church gets

Church. Right? So then the church gets to continue to have a monopoly on uh discourse about anything spiritual and the common citizen is presented with a

scientific paradigm that's soulc crushingly nihilistic so that he will then remain within the arms of the church and you think that was Decart's mission absolutely to do that yeah he was a

hired Jesuit agent I mean the guy was literally a stormtrooper who functioned as a military intelligence ataché to Catholic armies that were going through Protestant

villages and burning them to the ground and you know basically engaging in a uh inquisitory religious war against the Protestants of France.

And this is the guy who we trace our modern scientific paradigm to. Now, Kant

wasn't, you know, a paid agent of anybody as far as I can tell, but he definitely had political motivations, right? And the thing is, Kant's

right? And the thing is, Kant's political motivations are not something, you know, antiquarian and, you know, only relevant to his own epoch. We still

face the same concerns that he did as a serious thinker grappling with evidence for the paranormal. So, for example, as I point out very early on, and you know, I I've uh come back to this over and

over again in the 14 books that I've written, but it's right there in Prometheus and Atlas from the beginning.

If you consider what it would mean for telepathy clairvoyance telekinesis, or what we call psychokinesis these days to achieve

mainstream scientific recognition and for large numbers of people to then adopt training protocols for these latent human abilities, right? The way

that we have now a lot of the remote viewers offering remote viewing training. Imagine what kinds of social

training. Imagine what kinds of social challenges that faces us with, right? I

mean, if people become adept telepaths or adept clairvoyants, there's no such thing as privacy left.

There's no physical privacy left. Anyone

can see you doing whatever you're doing inside the privacy of your own home.

Anyone can even step into your mind.

like the remote viewers for example who were tasked to psychically spy on Saddam Hussein during the first Gulf War, Lin Buchanan and others, they actually went into Saddam's mind to the extent that

for example, you know, they they would get ill when he was ill and so on and so forth. And um yes,

forth. And um yes, so this is like a horrendous violation of personal privacy.

And then when you go to psychokinesis, it's it's even worse, right? So there's

this direct mental influence on living systems that's been studied in a very serious way by parasychologists and uh often what they'll do is they'll

visualize certain um organic systems in the body with a view to trying to heal diseases using psychokinesis.

But obviously I mean as the Soviets figured out in the 1970s when they were taking mice down in submarines and trying to stop their hearts, you can use the same thing to kill somebody. I mean,

you can use it to give somebody a heart attack or a stroke. And there's

evidence, you know, based on the testimony of some of our top remote viewers that there was a black unit in the United States that was doing these things in the 1970s and ' 80s. It was

separate from the remote viewing programs that were eventually defunded by Congress.

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delicious energy. So, there were people who uh had basically individuals from within those programs come to them and try to recruit

them into programs where they weren't just remote viewing. They were using psychokinesis against targets of the US intelligence community. And some people

intelligence community. And some people refused to get involved in that program.

I think other people were successfully recruited into it like Pat Price. And I

think the reason Pat Price wound up dead is that he was recruited into that program and tasked with certain operations and he wound up having serious moral reservations to that.

Yeah. It's interesting too because so Stargate was this, you know, program originally out of Stanford Research Institute that you're talking about which, you know, was the American Psychic Spy program. it turned into, you

know, had a few other names and few other agencies oversaw it before it was sunsetted in 1995.

Um, but I think a lot of people don't know that actually a lot of original people who were on that program came from Sydney Gotautle's technical staff services. And so that guy, I mean,

services. And so that guy, I mean, Sydney Gotautle's, you know, quote unquote poisoner and chief is sort of, you know, the the American Joseph Mangala, if you will. uh he was doing

everything to confer a tactical advantage uh on behalf of the US on pretty much all vectors of spooky science and would kind of you know lie, cheat and steal in order to do that. And

I think he ended up dying uh uh with his wife at a leper colony presumably maybe to uh you know make amends for his horrible deeds during his life or something. But um you know that

something. But um you know that connection I think is not super well known that maybe it wasn't just this you know may maybe there were deeper black elements to to this um you know program

for sure. And so what Kant means when he

for sure. And so what Kant means when he uses the phrase storming heaven is precisely this that we could wind up in a situation where

due to mainstream scientific recognition of these latent human abilities which by the way we share with animals. There's

extensive evidence of that that animals have much stronger side than most people do and that probably uh you know on an evolutionary scale there's an inverse

relationship between the hypertrophy of technical intellect and the atrophy of these intuitive instinctual abilities.

So, you know, these latent human abilities that we share with animals could be uh retrieved and and trained and cultivated in a very deliberate way.

And you know, if these phenomena get mainstream scientific recognition, it's likely to be the case that many people will go adopt those training protocols the way that people train in martial

arts today. The the the way they would

arts today. The the the way they would have to be trained up now. So okay this is a really wild conversation because assuming sigh is real. So this idea that

there the mind matter thing is not this you know total divide there's a connection between mental phenomena and the physical world uh that changes everything you know all of a sudden the pyramid where the bottom is physics then

you go chemistry biology you know psychology or whatever uh and then consciousness that gets flipped and consciousness goes at the bottom and it's fundamental to to sort of

everything else and so you'd have to assume if that is the case there are people walking among us that know that probably even outside of the context of these kind of academic institutions

studying this stuff and they're probably covert training programs going on right now where maybe people involved in the in the training only have need to know or something. They're being trained and

or something. They're being trained and they don't even know they're being trained for sure. And you know you can control a small cadre of such people and if they get out of hand there are ways

of dealing with that. But if it becomes a large-scale social phenomenon where people are going and training their clairvoyance, their telepathic ability, their telekinetic ability, the way that people train martial arts these days, we

are going to wind up in a situation like the Salem witch hunts where you're going to have I mean, how does a legal system even begin to deal with lawsuits uh that

so and so hexed me and so and so burned my house down using telekinesis? I mean,

it will be a nightmare.

It's an institutional apocalypse.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And so this is also one dimension of what we might call catastrophic disclosure because based on

you know any serious empirical study of the UFO phenomenon it's obvious that uh the entities who

are engaging people from out of these craft are all adept telepaths and they have already cultivated the psychic abilities that are latent in us and that

we could also train. And so a disclosure of what's on the other side of the UFO phenomenon is also de facto a mainstream scientific recognition of sigh. I mean,

you're already starting to see this with people like Jake Barber coming from out of Lockheed that, you know, they're using uh basically telepathy and clairvoyance to summon these craft,

right? Um so, and then, you know,

right? Um so, and then, you know, there's a lot of suggestion that the guidance system of these crafts involve a psychoinetic interaction between the

pilots and the airframe and the propulsion system.

So you have some of these wild stories about you know how very young people are being basically uh you know selected and and uh you know gathered together from various parts of

the world and brought to these black facilities so that they can more effectively pilot these craft right we also know that uh that there are operations okonis outside the

continental United States where prospecting for psionic assets takes place and and they're highly coveted.

And the interesting thing is is I hear in those programs that um there's something valuable about the life experience in third world countries. Uh

in that it seems as though people that live a simpler life and are outdoors more and have less contaminants in their food and their drugs and in their culture seem to be a little bit better

at disassociating and heightening their intuition. um and they come willingly

intuition. um and they come willingly because of the economic imbalance between where they come from.

So, so point being, you're not going to have UFO disclosure without also having what I call the spectral revolution or a scientific revolution that recognizes

the reality of sigh abilities. And I can unpack what I mean by that spectral revolution uh if you'd like to go there and why I think it's not just another revolution in the history of science

like the capernac revolution or the Darwinian revolution. Yeah, I I'd love

Darwinian revolution. Yeah, I I'd love to get into it. I mean, I my personal belief is that uh it can't be just another scientific revolution because science science requires a priorized

skepticism. I'll uh you know, Francis

skepticism. I'll uh you know, Francis Bacon and so uh you can't go into an experiment saying, you know, I expect the null hypothesis if you want a result

in the SAI framework, right? So like if James Randy or you know the modern day Michael Shurmer like some of these scientific skeptics show up to one of these sort of you know psychic experiments and they have kind of you know

it has an inhibitory effect.

It does literally will have a restraining effect on the actual results that you might get and so you get into this sort of air pockets of consensus reality thing where you have believers and non-believers and

they just don't sort of touch and and you can't really use the scientific method because Yeah.

Yeah. By the way, that negative side effect can also be empirically assessed though because you know people can be given like Xener card tests and so on and so forth and if they're extreme skeptics, they'll do worse than they

could by chance.

So you see like the the psychological resistance manifesting itself. It's sort

of a negative form of sigh, right? In

any case, that's a very good point. So

that's one of the ways in which you know the conception of science that goes back to say Francis Bis or Francis Bacon and the Royal Society would have to be fundamentally changed. But you know

fundamentally changed. But you know there's another huge one and that's what Thomas [ __ ] began to comment on when he wrote uh the structure of scientific revolutions in the early 60s

and that's the paradigmatic nature of science. So what [ __ ] pointed out is

science. So what [ __ ] pointed out is that scientific theories are nested within larger frameworks of interpretation

and these frameworks of interpretation uh establish as axiomatic and unquestioned. They assume certain hinge

unquestioned. They assume certain hinge propositions. It's a term that comes

propositions. It's a term that comes from Ludvik Vickenstein originally.

Hinge propositions meaning every other statement that's made hinges on certain unquestioned propositions. And every

unquestioned propositions. And every scientific paradigm has that superructure and scientists as contrasted with philosophers

scientists never question those framework assumptions.

So [ __ ] noted that the basic assumptions of any uh scientific theory which formed

the paradigm that's the context for that theory um they have certain basic definitions of let's say mass and gravity and so on so forth and these are

different definitions depending on the paradigm that you're working in. So, uh,

mass and, um, uh, inertia don't mean the same thing in Newtonian physics as they do in Einsteinian physics. And this

simplistic, you know, um, elementary educational textbook notion that uh, somehow Newtonian physics is understandable as a subset of like Einsteinian physics is not the case.

They're not mutually translatable in that way. And what's more interesting

that way. And what's more interesting about Coon's argument in the structure of scientific revolutions is that he says that when if you carefully observe the conditions of a paradigm shift let's

say from the Capernac paradigm to let's say more sophisticated Newtonian physics to then Einsteinian relativity the shifts always involve

political conflict and it's not the case that the promulgators of a previous paradigm are rationally convinced to adopt the new one. It's that they basically get old

one. It's that they basically get old and die out and there's a coup that takes place inside the scientific establishment. So he noted that

establishment. So he noted that scientific revolutions are also political revolutions in a sense.

And here's the thing about a scientific revolution based on the recognition of Sai is that because the framing of paradigms is a psychological phenomenon.

people who think that recognition of ESP and PK requires simply a new paradigm with

metaphysical concepts that are uh more rigorously expressed in certain scientific equations and formulas are missing the forest for the trees.

The revolution that recognizes Sai is a revolution that gives us insight into the psychological mechanisms that frame paradigms in the first place.

So understanding that consciousness really actually sentience on a subconscious level is forming physical phenomena as they

emerge from out of uh the quantum domain. Understanding that intrinsic

domain. Understanding that intrinsic co-constitution of physical reality by consciousness is also to have insight into the psychological mechanism that

frames paradigms to begin with. So then

you can start to recognize as Martin Haidiger did that scientific theories are toolkits.

They are not there to polish a mirror that provides us with an objective representation of some reality that's out there as if our mind is a mirror,

right? And it's representing an

right? And it's representing an objectively existent reality. No.

Scientific paradigms and the theories that any given paradigm makes possible are models. It's a technological

are models. It's a technological enterprise. So

enterprise. So the epistemic discoveries in science are derivative of they're an outgrowth of an essentially technological enterprise. In

other words, a model building uh endeavor that involves tools that allow us to achieve different ends. Okay. So

if you think for examp uh we took a wrong turn with Einstein and maybe you know the dynamic ether model that Nicola Tesla was proposing

and that perhaps Townson Brown was working uh with was the more accurate model of the cosmos and somehow Einstein went wrong. No, no, no.

went wrong. No, no, no.

What what we're in need of is a much more radical insight than that, which is that if you, let's say, want to travel at near the speed of light in a spacecraft, the right model for that is

Einstein.

If you want to create a quantum signaling system for like instantaneous communication across vast interstellar distances, the right model for that is quantum mechanics. That doesn't mean

quantum mechanics. That doesn't mean that you're ever going to have a meta theory that reconciles quantum theory and uh relativity. If you want to

develop a electrogravitic craft uh you know with a certain kind of um let's say uh ability to tap 0 point

energy as the basis for propulsion, you're going to need to work with a dynamic ether paradigm that Tesla was starting to develop. These are different

toolkits. They're different models for

toolkits. They're different models for achieving different ends. And we have to give up this idea that uh science is about develop developing an objective

representation of the world as such as if that reality capital R is separate from our own consciousness. So this

brings up a question if uh actually uh tool making for specific ends and politics is driving science which is supposed to be immune from politics much

more than we realize then who is actually in the driver's seat when it comes to these sort of scientific paradigm shifts. Is there somebody

paradigm shifts. Is there somebody behind Decart Kant you know any of these sort of mythmaking or worldmaking figures Newton where like the last 400

years is kind of we we look at reality based on you know sort of vector calculus because of Newton lienets you know yes so who is pumping these ideas through these architects

the religious control system on the planet and so what is that you know how we're always diving into the edge of science and consciousness on this show. Lately,

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this episode. So now this is to come back around to your first question which I said you know let's not scare the be Jesus out of the listeners right off the bat. Right.

bat. Right.

Yeah. The thing is if you spend, you know, any serious time looking into the UFO phenomenon and and by the way, it's something I've studied for

25 years or something like that. I

touched on it toward the end of Prometheus and Atlas, which was published in 2016. It was my dissertation in 2012 and then was adapted into a book 2016. And then I wrote Closer Encounters, my study of the

UFO phenomenon. Closer encounters was

UFO phenomenon. Closer encounters was published in 2021.

But it's the outcome of like 20 years of preceding research.

So anyone who goes into the UFO phenomenon, you know, with with even, you know, half of that depth and and and you know, endurance of research

inevitably realizes that whether you, you know, you want to work through what Jacqu Valet's uncovered or whether, you know, you want to, you know, at least look at Zachariah

Sitchin's research, the UFO phenomenon extends through all of recorded human history and most likely into prehistory.

And it's absolutely inseparable from both revealed religious systems like Judeo-Christianity and Islam and also

more archaic uh how could we put it let's I say archaic polytheistic ritualistic religions like the religion of ancient Egypt or you know uh the Vic

religion so on so forth it's very clear that you know in the Mahabarata and the Ramayana the dvas and the ash Ashuras or what in the Greek language we might call

the gods and the titans are exactly the same beings as you know the uh Elohim the Elohim in the Bible or the rebel uh

angels the Nephilim in the biblical context they're the same beings as the Anunnaki in Sumerian scriptures where again you have two factions this this idea that there are two factions runs

through every human religious belief system on the planet throughout the course of history you Prometheus is an archetype of this rebel angel.

Absolutely. So, you know, you could there's a through line from Enki in the Sumerian myths to Prometheus in the

Greek context to Quzel Quatal in the Mayan context to uh let's say a leader of the Asheras in a Hindu context sort

of demigod figure that transgresses uh on behalf of man against the gods.

Exactly. brings forth some sort of sacred technology to them.

Exactly. And in a Judeo-Christian context, of course, this is Lucifer.

Mhm.

Okay. So, you know, you have this story in the Bible about how the serpent uh offered knowledge to humanity in Eden.

And the reason the humans were kicked out of the garden uh where by the way they were workers because you know the nakedness in antiquity was a sign of

slave labor and we were killers of the field in Eden for the gods except we didn't know it. We didn't know we were naked meaning we didn't know we were

slaves. And this God uh is threatened by

slaves. And this God uh is threatened by our being given the discernment to recognize good versus evil because that would mean we would we'd realize that

our overlord is a bastard who wants to deny us knowledge. And what uh Adonai Elohim, the chief of the gods says when he casts man out of Eden or right before

he does is let us, you know, uh basically exile them from the garden before they also eat of the tree of life and become

like unto us so that nothing becomes impossible to them. Right? So this is a god who's jealous and afraid of humans achieving parody with the gods with the Elohim. And there's this rebel who's

Elohim. And there's this rebel who's symbolized by the serpent. Now remember,

uh the serpent is punished by having his legs removed. And then in the book of

legs removed. And then in the book of Revelation, Satan is referred to as that the dragon, the great dragon, that serpent of old.

In other words, Lucifer is explicitly identified with the serpent in Eden. Now, there's all kinds of people want to argue against this because they want to save uh the

Christian narrative in a gnostic sense.

And there are people who try to identify Jesus himself with Lucifer and so on and so forth. I used to teach comparative

so forth. I used to teach comparative religion for a few years and so there are all these nuances but I think the evidence is there to make the case that the dragon from the book of revelation

is the serpent in Eden and that's exactly the same figure as qual you know represented as a feathered serpent as a dragon essentially

and that's the faction of Enki uh and you see the symbol in Egypt too of you know the serpents with wings coming out the sides of them with the sun at the center the symbol of the Shamasu [ __ ]

the followers of Horus. So you have this through every human culture and the narrative is essentially this that

we were created as workers or slaves or servants of some kind of celestial overlord and we were put into a cast

system, a hierarchy. You know the word hierarchy literally means holy order.

Hierrosarchy, a hierarchical pyramidal society of the kind you saw in ancient Egypt, of the kind that you see in the varna system, the cast system of India, of the Hindu religion to this day. And

at some point there was a rebellion against this structure. I would say the most compelling version of the narrative of that rebellion is the one you find in Plato.

Plato's story about Atlantis.

But people get hung up on the name Atlantis. If there was such a

Atlantis. If there was such a civilization, probably, you know, its denisens didn't refer to it as Atlantis.

Plato uses that term because it signifies something very powerful.

Atlantis means the realm of Atlas.

And as I point out in my book, Prometheus and Atlas, atlas is a very powerful metaphor. The idea of Atlas of

powerful metaphor. The idea of Atlas of someone who has mapped the entire world and bears the earth on his shoulders, right? And actually the the globe that

right? And actually the the globe that Atlas is bearing on his sho should shoulders is not a terrestrial map. It's

a star globe which is what mariners used to navigate the world. Right? And so

it's this idea of uh basically developing a knowledge of the heavens and a mastery over the whole earth and modeling the earth so that we wind up

with let's say medical atlases.

The atlas is a term for a model. Right?

So this is integral to the model building enterprise of technological science.

So the idea of Atlantis archetypally is the idea of a demigod society which as Plato says wanted to empower humans and was hybridizing itself with the lot of

humanity right and and thereby lifting up humanity not just psychically and intellectually but also genetically lifting up humanity.

Uh it's the idea of using technological science to um unlock the secrets of the heavens and achieve parody with the gods so that you no longer need to be a

surviile worshipper of some kind of overlord. And this is what Plato tells

overlord. And this is what Plato tells us was the great sin of the Atlanteanss is that they stop sacrificing to the gods and worshiping them. So that Zeus basically calls the convocation of the Olympians and decides to wipe the world

clean in what we more commonly know as Noah's flood. Right? And so the biblical

Noah's flood. Right? And so the biblical story of Noah is exactly the same thing, especially when you look at, you know, in Genesis 6, right? There's a whole part of that story that's clearly been

excised. So in Genesis 6, all of a

excised. So in Genesis 6, all of a sudden, we're told like uh in rapid succession, oh well, you know, there was great iniquity on the earth and God decided to wipe the entire earth clean

and the flood. Wait a minute here. And

the sons of the Elohim came down. They

found the daughters of man fair and they, you know, interbred with them and so on and so forth and the earth was full of iniquity.

Seriously, in two paragraphs, you're going to tell us that God regretted the entire creation and wiped the whole world world clean, right? There's a

backstory here. And you find the backstory preserved in the book of Enoch, which was first discovered in Ethiopia. And he clearly was at one

Ethiopia. And he clearly was at one point part of the Tanakh and was excised you know due to whatever you know kind of uh you know theological

power game that whoever was playing confident that it was part of the original for sure because the story makes no sense without it and what you see in the book of Enoch is a direct heybreak parallel to what you

see in Plato's account of Atlantis. And

then you know other cultures have their own versions of that. The Mayans do too.

Well, in Enoch it's the Watchers or whatever. And so, okay, how does all of

whatever. And so, okay, how does all of this connect to the UFO story? Because

you hear, I don't know, like for example, Diana Pulka came on my podcast and she said, you know, Jacqu Valet is very interested in the devil and demons and fallen angels.

I'm having lunch with Jacques Valet. So,

we're in his study and it's really amazingly beautiful here in the Bay Area. Um and he starts to um explain a

Area. Um and he starts to um explain a couple of things to me and I notice a bunch of books on shelves and I notice those things, right?

Yeah.

So I go and I start to look to see what he has on this one shelf and then he takes one of the books off and it was uh a book about angels and he says, "Of course you can't have one without the other, right?" Because he picked up

other, right?" Because he picked up another book and he said, "You need to read this book." And whenever he says that to me, of course I'm going to get the book and read it. But this one was weird. So he showed it to me and it was

weird. So he showed it to me and it was the history of Satan. It was it just had these big words on it that says Satan.

And again, if I wasn't a little bit concerned before, I was absolutely concerned at that point. I was like, you know, Jacqu delay is handing me this book that says Satan on it. And so he he

uh he said, "Look at the pageionation."

So I, you know, looked at the pageionation. It was 666.

pageionation. It was 666.

Whoa.

Yeah. I thought that was so, you know, of course.

Wow.

It was a really weird moment. And he

said that in the states we think of the we think of Satan or the devil as really really terrible, right? But you know he said that the French they have a

different view of it and it's a much it's less sensationalist. That's what he was saying.

So what does all of this have to do with the modern kind of UFO topic?

You know I knew Jacqu Valet uh for a while and um I spoke to him this morning actually.

Yeah. So after I think it was six six, seven within 9 months of the time Prometheus and Atlas came out.

Mhm.

He had invited me to his home and we had a nice dinner and and a fairly intimate conversation and I brought this question up with him and because we were

discussing basically and we'll come around to this time travel.

Mhm. And whether, you know, he believed that these were basically humans that were uh reaching back into our epoch from the

future and that essentially, you know, there was a breakaway civilization that um had developed a hyperdimensional

relationship to the various spaceimes of the epochs of human history. that a a breakaway civilization with time travel essentially was able to have a

fifthdimensional relationship with the various 4D spaceimes of different human historical epochs, right? And I

basically said to him, well, some sort of multiverse management system. Yes. And I think branch

system. Yes. And I think branch management system and I think that's definitely part of what's going on, right? So, how I start my book, Closer Encounters, is I lay out all the different hypotheses. of course

the ETH the extraterrestrial hypothesis and then you know time travel interdimensional hypothesis uh the psychic projections hypothesis

um cryptoaterrestrial meaning survivors of Atlantis which we're touching on here uh and um ultimately also avatars of a similacrim are we living in a similacrim

are these in some sense avatars uh from the programming level of the simulacum which is something that valet as a computer scientist also has intimated in various writings of his. So, but the point is this that you know we were

discussing this you know hyperdimensional extra temporal uh relationship that these entities have to humans in various historical epochs and I said to him if

this is what you think why don't you why aren't you more direct about expressing that and he said because it involves um deeply entrenched religious

sensibilities of various societies and there's a sociological dimension to this that could be catastrophic in terms of religious belief system.

Well, you're skipping over one part, which is what does he think? What is the relationship between, you know, the devil, demonic, and and and UFOs and and all this stuff. Uh, I didn't pin him

down on that, so I don't want to speak for him. But I suspect

for him. But I suspect that what a lot of people are concerned about, including people in the deep state of our own government, first and foremost,

uh, is that the the bad guys won in the struggle over reshaping human history.

We wound up losing a rebellion against a control system that abides to this day and the meta narratives that have dominated the rise and fall of various

societies throughout the course of history including for example the destruction of the secular humanistic culture of the late Roman Empire you know uh the library of Alexandria

libraries of Corinth the entire you know that um I'm getting this figure from Carl Sean We lost 98% of the knowledge of classical antiquity. They they have

actually done studies based on like the references that we do have to other texts by various authors in the classical manuscripts that have survived and they've been able to do a reconstruction that shows that we lost

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horrendous one.

Yeah, that's really interesting. Islamic

conquest of Iran.

Mhm.

At least as bad as the Judeo-Christian takeover of the Roman Empire.

Yeah. So, and you have all this kind of forbidden archaeology where you see like precocious advancements in past civilizations that shouldn't really

exist whether it's like a Sumerian model of the heliocentric universe or the antic theorem mechanism which is this you know kind of um ancient uh you know

kind of almost like a astronomically aligned computer system um that that is found on this you know shipwreck uh in the Aian Sea. You have you have a bunch of examples of this.

Yes. So on the one hand you have what look like gifts gifts from Prometheus to speak archetypally.

Mhm.

And on the other hand you have attempts to decimate human knowledge and engineer regression and retardation to basically

you know uh reverse human progress. And

one of the most interesting episodes, who would that benefit the sort of this sort of, you know, well, whoever's running the control system, Malthusian, you know, and famine sort of cyclical, you know, cataclysm thing that

that would benefit who's whoever's running the control.

Exactly. Do

you have a model of who that is or Yeah, I do.

Who is it?

I do. So, okay, the devil's in the details or or maybe we should invert the the religious symbolism there, right? Um

but let me just uh point to to one interesting example of this. You know,

right before the Renaissance took place, I mean Renaissance is obviously an example of a

well a a rebirth of the will to know and human cultivation both artistically and scientifically, right? I mean,

scientifically, right? I mean, Prometheus uh didn't just bring science to humanity. Prometheus brought techn both

humanity. Prometheus brought techn both in the sense of the arts and the sciences. And so the Renaissance is a

sciences. And so the Renaissance is a quintessentially Prometheian phenomenon.

It's interesting that immediately before the Renaissance, you have these huge UFO battles over various European cities and they're reflected in the broad sheets of the

time, the newspapers of the time in Basil, Switzerland, in Nuremberg and Germany. They show these huge battles

Germany. They show these huge battles between objects in the sky. Really? And

yeah, and some of them I mean you can, you know, the P valet reprinted them in wonders in the sky. There a number of texts on the UFO phenomenon. These are

newspapers that show huge triangular craft, spheres of various colors, attacking each other, some of them falling from out of the sky in battles that took place in several places uh

over central Europe. This is like 15th century or just before the Renaissance. 1400s.

1400.

Yeah. So just before the So to me that looks like the rebel faction Mhm.

gaining ground and opening up a space for humanity to progress again for a while. Right

while. Right now there was also uh interesting. So you think that like

interesting. So you think that like these celestial battles take place right before there's some airdropping of human technology or something?

Look, I don't want to reduce human agency, you know, um, by by calling it an airdropping, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little help, right? But at the very least,

right? But at the very least, Valle would say donations.

Yeah. And at the very least, there was a a safeguarding of a space for human development and, you know, the rebirth of ingenuity and so forth. But then you know uh as I was mentioning earlier

let's say the Jesuit order tried to capture that and control it again through you know u a frontman like Decart where you had somebody like

Gordono Bruno developing a very holistic sort of you know how can I put it hermetic uh alchemical

matrix for what could have been a very different form of modern science and that was destroyed through the reductive dualistic uh model of Daycart right with

where everything in the physical world can only be understood in terms of mechanistic causality and then whatever spiritual can't be discussed rationally and therefore uh you know the church

continues to have a monopoly over that discourse. So there were attempts to

discourse. So there were attempts to then basically suffocate the Renaissance and warp the the energies of the Renaissance to have it miscarry into what became uh materialistic

reductionistic modern science. Yeah, you

have this great book um by I think Francis Yates, the Rosacrruian Enlightenment. She talks about King

Enlightenment. She talks about King Frederick sort of housing a lot of these heretical thinkers, John D.

Um Edward Kelly um and I think Gordon O'Brien as well.

Uh and then uh there's this war and I think Decart fights on the other side of the war. Right. Exactly.

the war. Right. Exactly.

Which is really interesting. And so, you know, it's almost symbolic that uh you have this kind of, you know, fighter in the world of of reason actually engaging in this battle against the literal

people housing or providing safe haven to some of these more heretical thinkers who are claiming to commune directly with angels and that sort of thing.

That's right. And you know, the Renaissance was supposed to take place in the 1300s.

If you look at Wait, what does that mean?

Well, they missed their programming. Uh if you look at you know the the trajectory of cultural development in the so-called middle ages right

you start to see the development ofmies and the rudiments of um empirical investigations into nature in the late

1200s and you know people like Paracelus and Cornelius Agrippa and the great alchemists come from out of this out of this cultural development.

This is where the FA story comes from, right? The the legend of Dr. Fostus.

right? The the legend of Dr. Fostus.

It's that period in the late 1200s, early 1300s.

And then what happened? The black

plague.

When you look at accounts of what actually went on during the black plague, and here, you know, the work of William Bramley is absolutely indispensable. He wrote this this book,

indispensable. He wrote this this book, uh, the gods of Eden. And as far as I can tell, Bramley had like he wrote this masterful text and then he never went back to the UFO phenomena. So he's the

furthest thing from a grifter like who just wanted to write one book after another about this stuff, right? No, he

he settled it and that was it. You know,

he had what he he said what he had to say.

So Braramley started out as a very conventional researcher trying to understand uh war profiteering. M

he he wanted to understand you know who was behind engineering all these wars throughout history and whether like there was some systematic way in which profiteering was taking place through

large scale engineered human suffering and he was thinking okay like bankers and like banking elites and and [ __ ] like that right yeah yeah and he finds UFOs how does he how does he connect that that's fascinating

so he goes in detail through like uh you know archival material that's left from various historical epochs including in this case the Middle Ages

and he notices that at the time the black plague breaks out, there are many UFO sightings. There are sightings of

UFO sightings. There are sightings of objects that land in fields.

Mhm.

It was so prominent that hysteria broke out about it in the French court and Charlemagne was considering declaring war on the tyrants of the air.

During the reign of Charlemagne, there were many accounts of encounters with tyrants of the air and their aerial ships. These accounts so concern

ships. These accounts so concern Charlamagne that those reporting such strange phenomena were subject to torture and death. Here is one recorded

event given between the 8th and 9th century in France.

One day among other instances it chanced at Leon that three men and a woman were seen descending from these aerial ships.

The entire city gathered about them saying that they were magicians sent by Charlemagne's enemy to destroy the French harvest. In vain, the four

French harvest. In vain, the four innocents sought to vindicate themselves, saying that they were their own country folks and had been carried away a short time since by miraculous men who had shown them unheard of

marbles. Luckily, the bishop of Leon

marbles. Luckily, the bishop of Leon pronounced the incident as false, saying it was not true these men had fallen from the sky, and what the town folks said they had seen there was impossible.

The people believed what their good bishop said rather than their own eyes, and instead of liberty the four ambassadors from the ship. And this is where the whole Monagonia thing that Valet talks about. This is that period

where you know you had these people supposedly coming from Mononia and some of them were arrested and then this bishop Agabard who was like a protorationalist came up with the justification for why this couldn't

possibly be real. So these guys got let go and they went back to their airships or whatever the hell. But here's the really creepy part about this research that Bramley did is that he found that

the plague broke out only after these people would land in the fields, come out of these objects, land in and they would go around with these hoods on and

these spray cans that became the basis for the scythe and the grim reaper image. They were shrouded and they had

image. They were shrouded and they had these things, okay, from out of which stuff would spray and it became the image of the scythe and the iconography of the grim reaper. And not only were

they spraying the fields, they would sometimes walk through towns and people would be terrified and go into their homes and these guys would walk and deliver door-to-door service, spraying the doors of individual homes where then

the plague would break out shortly thereafter. Okay, so it was biological

thereafter. Okay, so it was biological warfare.

And you know what the result of that was? A mass retreat back into religious

was? A mass retreat back into religious fundamentalism.

We were about to have the Renaissance in the late 1200s, early 1300s and then all of a sudden this black plague comes. People are terrified. It

plague comes. People are terrified. It

decimates population of Europe. So it

also reduces the industrial work base for a scientific industrial revolution and worst of all it causes people to retreat back into regressive religious belief system. So what's Bramley's

belief system. So what's Bramley's conclusion as to what the connection is between UFOs and war prophetering?

He thinks that basically these uh you know uh plague promulgators Mhm. are um representing the same

Mhm. are um representing the same faction that was lording over humanity in the Sumerian epoch through you know

the the name of Enki or whatever you know the the Anunnaki aligned with Enki or the Elohim in the you know Old Testament uh or the Davas you know to

put it in Hindu terms Richard Thompson you know he's the guy who co-authored forbidden archaeology with Michael Kremo Richard Thompson

has written a great uh UFO uh book like looking very carefully at Hindu scriptures such as Ramayana and Mahabarata. I think it's called alien

Mahabarata. I think it's called alien identities. Now granted he's coming from

identities. Now granted he's coming from out of a Hari Krishna tradition and so he has his own religious commitments and so forth but you can filter that out and just look at the empirical analysis and

it's very clear from Thompson's analysis in that book that you know the davas who are worshiped by I don't know a billion Hindus or something are these entities.

So, you know, we're we're in a very unfortunate position, right? If in fact we're inside of a control system

governed by people who want us to remain subordinates and are doing everything that they can so that we don't achieve par with them.

Now obviously this has tremendous implications in terms of any so-called disclosure because UFO disclosure in the context of the you know modern

you know industrial or whatever you want to say post-industrial you know economy that we have today would mean our rapidly achieving technological parody

with these people and and by the way we'll come back to this but this whole NHI discourse really bothers me well who are these people yeah exactly Exactly. Who are these people?

So the So the NHI is like a scop against the the idea that there's actually just a strata of people.

I think this is what's so deeply disturbing to most researchers and it's the deepest secret that's being covered

up by various governments in the world.

It's easier for the average, you know, person to imagine even a hostile threat emerging from deep

space that has nothing like a human face because you can, you know, compartmentalize it. It's like, you

compartmentalize it. It's like, you know, the War of the Worlds or whatever, right? But the idea that what's really

right? But the idea that what's really going on here is that there's a Hegelian master slave dialectic at work in human

history and that the masters in that dialectic have so raised themselves above the common lot of humanity that they appear as angels or celestial

beings or whatever. um and that they they've used that mask in order to keep us inside regressive belief systems and

to uh render us useful to them. So,

okay, we we have to look at the details of various cases if we want to get at who these people are, right? And and how their society came about and how this power structure was developed in the first place.

Humans with sigh abilities or are they beings from elsewhere or what? Who are

they?

So let let's briefly again you know you've done like plethora of interviews going into specific cases so we don't want to get too bogged down you know in the nitty-gritty of cases here but it's

important to refer to a few empirical cases here. So Ingos Swan

cases here. So Ingos Swan Mhm.

in the 1970s into the 1980s uh did remote viewings of both the moon and of Mars. Mhm.

In the 1970s, he was taken from out of the SRRI program, the SRI program that eventually became Stargate and Grill Flame and whatever. He was taken from out of that into some other black unit, which you know, he never learned what

the name of it was. Some guy who he calls who identified himself as Axel Rod, took him like blindfolded by helicopter into some facility and he was asked to remote view this target, of

course, which he was blind to. It turned

out that the target was the moon.

And now bear in mind just you know that at this point we had detailed satellite reconnaissance photography of the moon.

Uh an important case in this regard is um the testimony of Carl Wolf. Carl Wolf

had test. He was a a photographic uh repair expert and at that time sergeant in the early 1960s leading up to the Apollo missions. And at one point he was

Apollo missions. And at one point he was brought to what he thought was an NSA facility cuz he didn't um sorry he thought was a NASA facility cuz he'd never heard of the NSA. A lot of Americans hadn't. It turned out it was

Americans hadn't. It turned out it was an NSA facility that was processing lunar orbiter reconnaissance photos. And

Carl Wolf, long story short, he says he in the course of repairing this machine was shown photographs, mosaic photographs of a

huge megalithic city on the dark side of the moon. That there was a city with

the moon. That there was a city with largely polygonal architecture, titanic scale structures, but they weren't made of metal and glass. They were made of something that, you know, to him looked like poured stone, like concrete or

something.

and and in fact they reminded him of you know megalithic architecture on the earth.

Now back to Engle Swan. So point being if Carl Wolf saw mosaic photographs in the 1960s

Swan in the 70s is being tasked to remote view the moon by people who have access to these photographs. So I'm

thinking they want him died a mysterious death after he Exactly. So, by the way, Carl Wolf, and

Exactly. So, by the way, Carl Wolf, and this is horrible. These, you know, so I mean, what what are we discussing?

Disclosure and how disclosure could be manipulated. Well, just before this wave

manipulated. Well, just before this wave of so-called disclosure began in 2017, 2018, poor Carl Wolf was run over just the way John Mack was run over, you

know, and I hardly think it's a coincidence because he would definitely have been one of the people subpoenaed to testify. And what Carl Wolf had to

to testify. And what Carl Wolf had to say is something that no, you know, whoever's gatekeeping this whole disclosure business does not want out there in the public. In any case, Ingo Swan in the 1970s when he was

remote viewing what was on the moon was dealing with people who had access to these photographs. And I think what they wanted was for him to snoop around on the ground as it were, get a ground's

eye view of this city on the dark side of the moon. And here's what he saw there. He saw

there. He saw tall Nordic people, statuesque Nordic people who gave him a look like, "You don't belong here. Get the [ __ ] out of

here and don't come back." And he saw these same people lording over basically armies of slave laborers who he said were naked

and meaning that they're probably under some kind of a dome that we can't see, transparent dome or something. And they

were living in these like ramshackle like makeshift shelters under appalling conditions conducting slave labor on the moon.

Swan also re remote viewed Mars in the early8s and he said these same people who he had seen on the moon were responsible for a civilization uh the

ruins of which he viewed on Mars. There

were very large like honeycombed cities which he said showed evidence of explosions, internal explosions like you know he said he had the impression that a battle had taken place there. Well,

it's funny you say that. There's a PhD physics who's uh I think he worked at uh uh Sandia or Los Alamos and also Lawrence Liverour. whose name is John

Lawrence Liverour. whose name is John Brandenburgg and he says that uh xenon 129 and argon 40 ex exist in excess of what you would ever expect just from natural radioactive isotope decay and

that proves that there was actually some nuclear holocaust on Mars. Well, they

found a large amount of xenon 129 which is the product of two things uh supernova explosions and hydrogen bomb explosions.

And we know there was no supernova on Mars. If there was, that there wouldn't

Mars. If there was, that there wouldn't be a solar system here.

And you said there was one other argon.

There was a also there's a when you irdiate rocks that have potassium in them, and all rocks do. Uh they produce

a isotope uh called argon 40, and that's super abundant on Mars. So you have two things that are products of what look like an intense nuclear reaction on Mars

in the atmosphere.

Yeah. I spent several days with Dr. Brandenburgg in New Mexico and I I put this in Closer Encounters this research of of uh Dr. Dr. Brandenburgg that

basically the the deviation from normal of the isizotopic ratio of xenon 129 in Sidonia specifically where we have

photographic evidence of ruins on Mars.

The xenon 129 isotopic signature at Sedonia he has discovered um is only matched by thermonuclear test sites on the earth. It's the only other place in

the earth. It's the only other place in the solar system where we see that kind of signature. And he came to that

of signature. And he came to that conclusion when he was working at Sandia Labs, which is where, you know, nuclear weapons research takes place in the United States. Okay. So, there's

United States. Okay. So, there's

evidence that some kind of a nuclear confrontation took place on. And by the way, and Carl Sean called him and said, "Uh, hey, John, why are you why are you uh you know, causing so much trouble?"

Yeah.

I found that very interesting. Carl

Sean, who held definitely security clearances and knew more than I'm I'm pretty convinced Sean was a member of Majestic.

That would make sense to me. Yeah.

Yeah. because he sort of flipped to anti he was very interested in UFOs we know earnestly interested growing up his mentor he would have debates you know the book he wrote was Schlowski the

Soviet scientist he co-wrote intelligent life in the universe and Sean himself at that point was saying you know we should look at ancient myths and check the archeological and historical record for contact and so on so forth there you go

and then all of a sudden and he had a security clearance I think project um was it A119 I think in the uh late 50s where they were considering nuking the moon as a show of force against the

Soviets. And he had a security clearance

Soviets. And he had a security clearance through the air force through that. And

then it was interesting he sort of flipped into anti-UFO mode and like almost official priestly citadel spokesman of the American scientific community uh right as J. Allen Heinik

moved from you know rationalizing explaining everything away via project blue book the official Air Force fake program into more openness. Um so like

it was like kind of late 60s early 70s it's kind of this interesting kind of you know thing and he was the right age by that point to be recruited into such an organization you know

in any case Brandenburgg uh came to the conclusion that something like an empire states an empire state building's worth of nuclear weapons had been detonated uh to produce that kind of a deviation of

xenon 129 isotope at sedonia but um so swan saw evidence of this on the ground okay like a devast stated civilization

and he said it was the same people who he saw on the moon as basically slave drivers. Now, unbeknownst to Swan,

drivers. Now, unbeknownst to Swan, and by the way, when Swan remoteviewed Mars, he worked with a team of, I believe, five other remote viewers, and they were all, you know, they they did it independently, right? And they were

all blind to the target. But unbeknownst

to that whole team led by Ingo Swan, in 1984, I think it was the same year, in 1984, Joe McMagal at the Monroe Institute did a remote viewing of Mars for the CIA.

And we I thought it was in the 90s.

No 1984.

1984.

Yeah. Go uh look it up. The paper's

available now. It's been declassified.

You can read the whole report.

Yeah.

It's been declassified by the CIA.

Yeah.

And it's 1984. I believe the title is Mars 1 million BC.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And cuz initially they say to him, go to Mars like 1 million BC. That's what's in the envelope, right? But what he said to them was when McMongle wound up there, he said, "Oh, it's all in ruins. It's

it's there were people once here. I see

like ghosts of people who once were but they're not here anymore.

They saw people were 12 to 14 ft tall.

So then they Yes.

Yes. Yes. So they said to him, "Okay, well if it's devastated and the people aren't around anymore, go back to when they were around." Now he never reports on how far back that was. He just goes mentally to when they were still had a civilization.

So they go back to 1 million and there was some recent ruin. Then he goes back further. These are people. I don't know.

further. These are people. I don't know.

Okay.

These people are the same again as Swan saw. very tall sort of Nordic people,

saw. very tall sort of Nordic people, very broad shouldered people, not an ounce of body fat. They have they're wearing these skintight clothes, you know, that reveal every contour of every

muscle. And he says some very

muscle. And he says some very interesting things about their worldview, their outlook, uh, and their dying civilization. But what's most

dying civilization. But what's most interesting is this.

He says that a group of them were sent out in a craft to go scout out a new world that they could possibly develop as a habitation

for themselves because Mars was no longer a planet on which they could survive, right? And this scout ship runs

survive, right? And this scout ship runs into a planet where there are constant electrical storms. There's a tremendous amount of volcanic activity. Uh, it's

the opposite of Mars, but in a way that's also difficult to support human life. In other words, it's overgrown

life. In other words, it's overgrown with vegetation, right? It's an

incredibly volatile but living planet.

And they they're like, "We can't live in this planet under these conditions. We

would have to modify this planet to live there."

there." And so I suspect that what's going on there is the scouting out of a primordial Earth by people from Mars.

Which then brings us to the question of the moon, you know, and what the moon is, right? I mean, so we've got Carl

is, right? I mean, so we've got Carl Wolf telling us there's a city on the dark side of the moon. We've got Ingo Swan having done remote viewing that confirms that. But I think that the

confirms that. But I think that the situation with the moon is is actually a lot more disturbing than there simply being, you know, a city-sized alien base on the back side of the alien, whatever

base on the back side of the moon.

You look at the the geometry and the mathematics of of the moon in relation to the earth and the sun, it makes no sense. The the moon is 1/400th the

sense. The the moon is 1/400th the distance between the earth and the sun and it's 1/400th the size of the sun.

And so that creates these perfect eclipses that we see, right? That by

itself is very odd. And then you look at the fact that the craters on the moon are all only a few miles deep. You never

find a crater on the moon that's more than five or six miles deep. But some of these craters are like 186 miles wide, right? So, and at the, you know, the

right? So, and at the, you know, the base of the largest craters, you see a convex surface. In other words, it looks

convex surface. In other words, it looks nothing like the Grand Canyon or the Val Marinys and Mars where like, you know, an asteroid would hit it and you'd see a deep gouge that should be proportionally

as deep as it is wide. No, what you're seeing apparently is a hard shell that's being revealed through the impact against the regalith by whatever object.

The ejecta is going 186 miles out in every direction, but there's never a a crater deeper than a few miles. And what's being revealed

few miles. And what's being revealed there at the crater base is a hard convex surface. Then there's the impact.

convex surface. Then there's the impact.

Uh well, one of them was a test, one of them was accidental. The first one, um I think part of an Apollo lander hit the moon and there was a seismograph that had already been positioned there and it

registered basically the seismic signature that you would uh face if you were measuring a a hollow object. that

basically um the the reverberations went down for about 20 miles and then they stopped and the way that the reverberation was distributed throughout

the moon suggested that as the the observers, you know, put it, it rang like a bell. And so then they repeated this test deliberately a second time. I

think it was an Apollo 13. And this time they hit it with with a more significant impact. And this kind of uh seismic

impact. And this kind of uh seismic signature was observed for 3 hours. the

moon basically ringing like a a hollow object for 3 hours.

So there's all this evidence that the moon is an artificial satellite. And

setting this in the context of Joe McMongle's remote viewing of Mars, what I argue in closer encounters is that the people on Mars

probably constructed the moon for two purposes. one as a very largecale

purposes. one as a very largecale transport of a of a significant population from Mars to the orbit of the

earth and two as a terraforming device to radically alter the ecological uh situation of the planet uh so as to make it habitable for humans. Right?

They said there were these horrendous constant electrical storms and volcanic eruptions and so on and so forth. Well,

you know, the Earth spun a lot faster before the if the moon had not been in orbit at some point, we would have been dealing with a planet that was a lot more unstable, spinning much faster, um,

prone to toppling over. The moon acts as a tremendous stabilizer for the Earth.

By the way, that's another thing about the moon is that it has a unusually stable orbit as compared to the moons around other planets, as if there's a stabilizer inside of it. So, I think it was created to transport a large

population and and it was used as a terraforming device. Now, to answer your

terraforming device. Now, to answer your deeper question, what does that say about who these people are, right? Uh, number one, it

says that they're people. So, NHI is not an appropriate appellation for these individuals, right? They look like us

individuals, right? They look like us particularly. They look Nordic

particularly. They look Nordic and um they appear to have been the progenitors of the human race. Not only

that, they appear to have terraformed the Earth to make it habitable for humanoids.

But I have one huge problem with all that, the time scales. M

it makes no sense whatsoever to me that you would have people who look like us, I don't know, millions of years BC on Mars.

The same people are uh basically, you know, I don't know, involved in the power struggle that's been remembered as the myth of the Atlantan revolt.

Mhm. The same people are being encountered today by let's say Travis Walton when Walton was abducted.

First he had to deal with these grays these little robotic entities that you know tried to put him back together after he you know sustained some kind of physical damage being thrown by the you

know electrogravitic repulsion of the craft. But then he, you know, big

craft. But then he, you know, big strapping fellow that he was, he broke free of the control of these robots and the medical facility or whatever, went down the hallway and he bumped into these Nordics and from there on he was

handled by these people. He said they looked like they could all have been members of the same family.

I went into another room where there was a chair. There was some kind of a

a chair. There was some kind of a projection or some kind of a viewing thing in this room where you could see a map of the stars. A man came in while I

was trying to find a way out there. And

this was a a humanlooking person.

They had passed in a crowd. This

individual and on Earth, he was bigger than me, taller and more muscular, very large individual. I went up and uh tried

large individual. I went up and uh tried to talk to this guy and u he didn't answer me. He led me outside of this

answer me. He led me outside of this craft that I was in, which was apparently parked inside of a large room or a building or a larger craft and led

me out of this room into another room where some other beings like himself um put me unconscious.

When I regained consciousness, I found myself laying on the roadway that I saw a craft hovering there that just sat there for a second and just

shot straight up.

That's the last I've seen of.

And then you have cases like uh you know um Betty Andreas and Luca where again you have uh her taken she's frozen together with her family by grays

who come into the house. This is 19 1960s housewife and her and her daughter Becky, I believe, uh were both taken

and initially they're handled by the grays who frees the, you know, the family and and abduct them from the home. But then

they are brought to a place where they encounter these uh angelic looking Nordic beings who proceed to tell Betty

that essentially they're the angels and that the little grays are responsible for writing down all the deeds of humans. They're like a a a mass

humans. They're like a a a mass surveillance system that keeps a record of everybody's life. And these tall angelic beings told her that they brought Christ into the world and don't

worry, they're going to bring him back again soon. And while she was with them,

again soon. And while she was with them, and by the way, she didn't say they took her into space. They seemed to have taken her somewhere underground or underwater.

And while she was there, she noticed this like doorway or large mirror or something uh that led toward this light.

And some of these little gray entities went into the light. And they told her, "You can't go in there. That's the one.

That's the source." And that sent Jesus into the world and will again soon.

Right?

So a couple of points I want to make through, you know, these various cases.

One is that we we often hear these narratives where these, you know, tall statuesque beautiful Nordics are pitted against these ugly little uh

transhumanist gray robots. And you know like the Eisenhower story that you know Eisenhower met with the Nordics first and then you know he met with the grays and the grays made him a better deal because the Nordics wanted us to get rid of our nuclear weapons. The gray said no

we'll give you our technology just let us abduct a certain number of people each year.

This is extremely dubious to me, this narrative, because there are plenty of cases that attest to the fact that the grays are some kind of a cybernetic

robot that work for these Nordics and the Nordics appear to be the ones in control.

So, if there's a narrative that's being promulgated of, you know, uh, beneficent Nordics versus like inhuman monstrous grays, I think it's some kind of good

cop, bad cop, bait and switch that's being set up here, uh, to ultimately put us in a position of captivation.

And you first see this uh, in 1950s Italy. There's a case that I cover in

Italy. There's a case that I cover in Closer Encounters. this guy Bruno

Closer Encounters. this guy Bruno Samachichia and his associates um were engaged by these Nordics who had

underground bases and they claimed first of all as you see with all these cases of encounters with Nordics demonstration of tremendous liabilities. These Nordics are all

liabilities. These Nordics are all telepathic. They can perform you know uh

telepathic. They can perform you know uh impressive telekinetic feats and so on and so forth. But what uh this Bruno Samachicia and his associates said is that these Nordics were so benevolent

like they would never harm a fly. But

they told us that there were these other entities, the Contrari, the CTR, the Contrari, who are these little robotic entities and they're soulless and they just want to, you know, they want

control over the human soul because they don't have souls themselves and um they're locked in a in a millennial battle with these beings.

So this Nordics versus gray narrative goes all the way back to the 1950s.

Interestingly Samachichia makes a little note that you know at one point it occurred to me that the SS were involved in eugenics programs and there

were rumors that after the war these uh eugenics programs were continued in secret in underground facilities and so on so forth. And I wonder whether these people that we saw and they also saw

very young people fitting this Nordic type were basically products outcomes of such programs that had begun in the Second World War. He engages albeit

briefly in that kind of speculation.

So long story short, my point is that these people are integral to human history and to the development of human society. We're not

dealing with something that's coming from the outside. And I'd be very suspicious of, you know, claims by, let's say, uh, you know, George Adamsky

saying that so and so Furkcon told him that he was from Mars or George Vanassel saying that he was dealing with Venusians or Billy Meyer telling us about the, you know, bene beneficent uh,

Pleadians who were going to come to save us all, right?

These beings are incredibly deceptive. I

mean, deception is part of their mo.

Jacqu Valet picks up on this in the context of the fairy folklore of the Middle Ages. I mean, one very consistent

Middle Ages. I mean, one very consistent thing that you see uh in encounters with the gentry, the the elite fairies in Britany and in Ireland and so on and so forth is that the peasants know that

these beings lie all the time. They lie

all the time about everything. And they

only call them the good folk because otherwise they'll get pissed off and learn what they'll do to you. So,

uh, I think we're dealing with a faction of humanity that's positioned itself as a sort of overlord or master task, um,

above the common herd and they have adopted all kinds of guises and disguises to, uh, you know, strategically deceive us for the sake of the preservation of their control system.

How do you answer the time scale question? So you were saying, you know,

question? So you were saying, you know, if you have millions of years ago these, you know, beings that looked like us existed on Mars and then you have, you know, grays acting as their sort of robotic little drone emissaries, how

does that necessarily answer this question of of right, you know, time scales? So the biggest problem with UFO

scales? So the biggest problem with UFO disclosure is that the 0 point energy electrogravidic

propulsion system is not just going to give you a craft that travels from New York to Australia in an hour, right? It's going to give

you a flying time machine.

So you remember in the 1950s I believe you've covered the subject before and I go into it in some depth in closer encounters there were these newspaper

articles quoting the chairman of Martin aircraft Lear Convair saying that the G engines are coming that we've cracked anti-gravity

and within a few years uh at a cost comparable to the Manhattan project we can have industrial scale development of electrogravitic craft that will get you from New York to Australia in an

Here's a problem, though. What they

didn't realize, and I think what was explained to them when they finally got the memo, is that these are flying time machines.

They mess with the spatio temporal fabric in a way that causes time dilation and time displacement.

And I have this also on personal testimony, which I've told the story before, but I never revealed who told me this.

In this case, I will.

Okay.

Um because man, the guy is old and you know, if anyone, you know, no, nobody at this point should should be wanting to cause him any trouble in his life. Uh

Lynn Buchanan Mhm.

in his living room told me a story about how at one point he was taken to a locked facility in California, deep underground facility. He said that uh it was like a shack on the side of

the road and you went into this shack and all of a sudden the floor of the place dropped. The whole thing was an

place dropped. The whole thing was an elevator and it took you down I don't know how many hundreds of feet through solid rock and he came out into this

facility where they had reconstructed FAA style a collision between an airliner and a UFO

like the way an FAA reconstructs airline collisions. What do you mean

collisions. What do you mean reconstruct?

Uh like like you know when there's been a plane crash, the FAA will lay out the pieces of the craft um to emulate the moment of impact.

Whoa.

And with like little flags and stuff and so like a model of it.

No, no. They take the wreckage. They

take the wreckage and they reassemble it as best they can.

So he saw a shattered UFO.

Exactly. With a civilian I don't know if it was civilian airliner. An aircraft. A

human aircraft. But maybe it was a military one. I don't know. He didn't

military one. I don't know. He didn't

say it. Anyway, they had this reconstruction and the reason they brought him there is that they were trying to figure out how this UFO works.

Mhm.

And there was something about the guidance system that they couldn't figure out and he wanted they wanted him to remote view how this thing was used by the pilots.

Anyway, here's the important thing is that when he was at this facility, he says that they conveyed to him that they were training pilots to fly UFOs.

I don't know whether the recovered UFOs or reverse engineered UFOs based on their design, but they were training American pilots to fly these UFOs. And

the biggest problem was time displacement that these craft would, you know, you couldn't travel through space with them without some degree of time

displacement. And that was incredibly

displacement. And that was incredibly disorienting to the pilots. So they had developed models for how much time displacement there would be based on warping of spaceime by the

electrogravidic drive and they were trying to teach this to these pilots so that their brains weren't scrambled by time travel essentially.

So I have that testimony also to confirm what I think is already a very sound theoretical speculation. Michael Masters

theoretical speculation. Michael Masters goes into this in his book on UFOs and time travel, which I cite in Closer Encounters, that the 0 point energy drive is going to give you a time

machine, not just a propulsion uh platform.

So why do people look like I don't know Nordic, you know, uh Olympic swimmers millions of years BC on Mars? And you

know, how is there such a continuity not just of the looks of the people, of the architecture? What McMmonal and Swan saw

architecture? What McMmonal and Swan saw on Mars was a style of architecture that matches the most titanic megalithic structures on Earth. And that's also the

style in which that city was built on the dark side of the moon, which you know Carl Wolf saw the photographs of which Ingo Swan wandered around, okay, through astral projection. Why is there

a consistent style of architecture over millions and millions of years?

Because it's not a linear temporal continuity. We are dealing with people

continuity. We are dealing with people who achieved time travel at some point.

That point could be the future looking at it from a linear perspective. It

could be 2050. It could be, you know, 3100.

At some point, time travel is achieved by a group of humans. Those humans

appear to be of Nordic phenotype and genotype. Those people then began to

genotype. Those people then began to manipulate the variables of human history hyperdimensionally.

So it's not like they were Martians that once had a civilization millions of years ago on Mars and somehow, you know, they've gone into cryochamber, although they did report that there were

cryochambers on Mars and that there were people who had been left there and they had been waiting to be woken up and nobody came back for them. McMichle said

that these pyramidal places are like hibernation chambers. They're trying to

hibernation chambers. They're trying to survive until somebody comes to save them.

In any case, uh but I don't think that that that goes anywhere comes anywhere close to explaining the temporal continuity here. I think what we're

continuity here. I think what we're seeing is a group of people who have learned how to drop into different epochs of human history from out of what you might loosely call a

fifthdimensional frame of reference.

Interesting. And so, you know, people talk about it's me, it's it's interesting you said Nordics versus grays. I often hear Nordics versus

grays. I often hear Nordics versus reptilians. So, like, are N are the

reptilians. So, like, are N are the Nordics the only faction that have some sort of transtemporal ability to to time hop or is there some other faction that

also, you know, um has plans for the Earth?

Here's what I uh speculate about the reptilians in Closer Encounters. Okay.

If you uh take seriously the possibility that the moon is a terraforming device and that the ecological

the biosphere of this planet was radically reshaped to make it habitable for humans. Well, that would have

for humans. Well, that would have involved also the extinction of the dinosaurs, right? So the Nordics coming

dinosaurs, right? So the Nordics coming here from Mars were responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs. Now the Sumerian myths

the dinosaurs. Now the Sumerian myths tell us that when the Anunnaki engineered a slave race on Earth, they went through several successive models

and the first few were failures.

So they they started by engineering other types of humanoid beings.

So you is there Anunnaki in the Sumerian type? Like cuz there's this debate of

type? Like cuz there's this debate of whether you know Zachariah Sitchin was right about these things. So you you think there are oh there for sure Anunnaki the debates are about whether like for example

Sitchin says the word shem means rocket.

Okay.

And you know it's it means a pillar that like stands you know it's like debates over you know to what extent are these metaphors or are these you know vocabulary that's being taken out of

content. the Anunnaki in the Sumerian

content. the Anunnaki in the Sumerian text are as clearly there as references to the Olympian gods in Greek literature, right? And it's very clear

literature, right? And it's very clear in the in the Sumerian text that, you know, it's part of the integral myth and religious belief system of their society

that the Anunnaki created humans as a a race of beings to serve them.

So that that is clearly very clear and and what's more interesting is that we weren't the first though.

There were a bunch of failed versions before us.

Yeah. And so I speculate in Closer Encounters, and it's a speculation.

Yeah.

That well, if they got here at the time, the dinosaurs were the dominant species on the earth and they're responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs and yet they needed to create a humanoid

slave race. Why not take dinosaurs and

slave race. Why not take dinosaurs and hybridize them genetically with themselves instead of having to lord over beings who are very much like you, which is a it's a very bad position to be in

psychologically sociologically etc. You know, you do it with a group of beings that are very physically capable, but that are not like you. It allows you to, you know, morally justify yourself,

you know, better than to lord over your own kind, as it were. So, you know, how do we know that the reptilians aren't the product of some Frankenstein's laboratory that these people established? You know, the same

established? You know, the same Frankenstein's laboratory from out of which these cybernetic rays emerged. Y

right.

That's my speculation.

It's super interesting. I mean to somebody on the outside listening to this they could call us insane and say like you know this is all so it's so

speculative and and whatever is going on feels so weakly entangled with our reality whether it's the psychic stuff which we started started off talking about which I you know fully agree with you there's a ton of data showing that

there is some weak entanglement between mind and matter there are are abilities to for the mind to quote unquote collapse The wave function is what it empirically seems to occur in these

random event generator experiments that occurred at elite universities across the United States. The Princeton

Engineering and Anomalous Research Lab, SRRI, all these schools, elite schools studied this stuff. And none of those researchers came out saying there wasn't anything there. Almost all of them came

anything there. Almost all of them came out saying there was a there there. Um,

and then look, I obviously am very deep on all the alien UFO lore and so I think there's a there there too. Both of these feel very weakly entangled with our reality. Like the fact that we're even

reality. Like the fact that we're even talking about this on a podcast.

It's like, you know, it feels like it's been relegated to sort of entertainment.

I'll tell you what's not weekly entangled.

Uhhuh.

And what's uh very tangible in terms of uh an existential challenge that we have to face and this is actually what's of greatest interest to me. Right. I'm not

a euphologist. I'm a philosopher who's using the material of euphology for a certain philosophical purpose and that has to do with the challenge of the

technological singularity. Right? So in

technological singularity. Right? So in

uh my book Prometheism the way I break this down is I I had written this book earlier called world state of emergency.

It's one of the concepts that I've developed which I reformulate in Prometheism. And in this book

Prometheism. And in this book Prometheism I describe this world state of emergency in terms of the end of humanity, the end of history and the end

of reality. So the end of humanity means

of reality. So the end of humanity means you know genetic engineering uh cybernetic integration of

nanotechnological components into the human body and the human cognitive sens.

It's happening now augmentation of human cognition by artificial intelligence. So

whether it's crisper genetic engineering or cybernetic enhancement of humans by artificial intelligence integration through neural link and so on and so forth we are facing a situation where

the boundary conditions of human existence may be altered right and in the history of philosophy there were thinkers like NZ who foresaw such a

moment arriving where you would have an Uber mench or superman uh did he view that I didn't realize he saw that as some sort of historical prognostics.

And there are a lot of academics who I have to say because of cowardice frankly want to think that you know niche's idea

of the uber mench is just some ethical exemplar or some kind of a psychological type.

That's the way it was taught to me.

Yeah. Because it's become taboo in academia. That's why. So Nze has a

academia. That's why. So Nze has a concept of the higher man and he has a whole psychology of the higher man as a human type.

That's different from the uber mench.

The higher man is a precursor or herald of the future coming of the uber mench.

In his uh notes that became compiled into the will to power, there are clearly passages where he's talking about industrial, economic, and technical development. And that there

technical development. And that there will come a time when there's the potential for the uh evolutionary rise of a species that would be as different

from contemporary humanity as we are from apes that a chasm would separate them from us that's as vast as the chasm between man and ape.

And did he root that in some sort of technological?

Yes, absolutely. He says that the machinery of technical industry on the planet will be so integrated and increasingly autonomous that humans will be forced to

either uh become robots that they will have to degrade into a subhuman condition due to lack of will, you know,

lack of any ethos, um not being able to have any self-directive and principled uh existence. Those kinds of people are

uh existence. Those kinds of people are going to degrade into a subhuman condition and be insconed and encompassed by the technical industrial infrastructure such that they become

part of the kind of robotic uh machinery of production. And then there's going to

of production. And then there's going to be people who become highly individuated. They are, as he puts it,

individuated. They are, as he puts it, an aristocracy of the soul. Uh artist

tyrants as he put it. um who essentially you know it's like the ultimate ideal of the Renaissance man

uh as the point of of of uh you know inception for a higher species that ultimately is as different from modern humans as we are from the apes. So he he

has this notion developed. So it's an early form of transhumanism that you see. And anyway, my point is you you

see. And anyway, my point is you you have these convergences of cybernetics and genetic engineering into a potential end of humanity. Then in terms of, you know, development of zero point energy

and what we were talking about earlier where we might uh gain control over the space-time matrix itself and be able to have a hyperdimensional relationship with various epochs of human history.

Well, there you're dealing with the end of history in a much more radical sense than like let's say Hegel projected an end of history in terms of you know the the end point of all the dialectical

tensions and you know social developments that he thought were progressively uh unfolding the evolution of consciousness from epoch to epoch. In

a much more radical sense than that, you're going to have us face what Hegel called the, you know, dilemma of the master slave dialectic where we have to ask ourselves whether

the end of history should be a social and political situation where there continues to be a master cast or master

race lording over, you know, vast uh hordes of slaves and underlings or whether really the end of history should, you know, uh, be a moment of of

universal liberation and the actualization of freedom across all of humanity right?

Do you think that Hegel had some sort of worldview involving, you know, these Nordic beings that control the earth?

Well, the the interesting thing about Hegel's, isn't there a book called it's like Hegel and hermeticism or something and talks about his relationship with Glenn

McGee and yeah, Glenn McGee. Um,

I knew that guy at one point. Anyway, I

won't get into that. But Glenn McGee uh wrote an excellent book where he through his reading his book on Hegel and alchemy, I went back to his source which is Hegel's book called Philosophy of

Mind.

Uh, not to be confused with phenomenology of spirit which is the more famous work by Hegel. But Hegel

wrote this book philosophy of mind which is all about you know the psyche and it has extensive passages on the paranormal in it which are never taught in academia. And Hegel has this whole

in academia. And Hegel has this whole very interesting theory about how you know the hypertrophy of the technical intellect and you know mathematics and basically

geometry and you know um you know geometrical and mathematical uh methods of engineering and so forth atrophied the kind of instinctual abilities that

we share in common with animals and that then reemerge in isolated cases in the form of what we would call psychic phenomena. He has a very interesting

phenomena. He has a very interesting sort of evolutionary you know sociological account of sigh throughout human history. So Hegel was open to these things and he studied

alchemy. Um and then the other a person

alchemy. Um and then the other a person who you know formulated an idea of the end of history of of course Markx you know and the young Marx was a disciple of Hegel and Marx is specifically

developing from out of Hegel this idea of the master slave dialectic and you know arguing that although capitalism is potentially uh the most revolutionary transformative

force in human history it also represents the last form of alienation and the the last structure of the master slave dialectic where you

have this master capitalist class that is then alienated from uh you know the majority of workers but then also psychologically alienated from

themselves. The the ma the master cast

themselves. The the ma the master cast under goes a personal psychological alienation through its affirmation of this um power structure.

So the question that I raise in closer encounters philosoph one of the many philosophical questions I raise in closer encounters is that is this the case with these Nordics as well? Do when

when we say Nordics it feels like you know the the idea that there is some sort of mythos that is moving forward Allah something in

control outside of you know lower humanity that is pushing forward these scientific frameworks that all makes sense to me. And then the parasychology stuff being some sort of you know

necessary preclusion from all philosophy or even for a lot of philosophy needs to speak about it either in Straussian you know sort of coded ways or it needs to you

know actually stigmatize it and go you go against it you know all day cart or whatever that all makes sense to me and then what I what I personally struggle with is when we start talking about

different races like Nordics or reptilians I'm like I it's just clear to me that like we're not in control of our general overall episto.

That's a very disempowering uh conclusion to reach.

It sucks. But but but when you get into these specifics, I'm like nor I don't maybe I don't know.

There's a plethora of empirical evidence for it.

Yeah. There's a lot of but but here's the thing but here's the thing and here's where it gets deeply uncomfortable and and this is why you know like I was saying at the outset of our conversation there's a defense mechanism that kicks in. Yeah.

Which you can see in certain researchers where they want to turn the whole thing into an abstraction. And it's the Concient thing in itself that's somehow, you know, interfering in our history in ways that we'll never really fully understand

because actually the thing that's going on is so disturbing that we don't want to look it in the face.

So what and what do you think they is it like the Anunnaki who left the planet Nibiru or something?

So here's where so here's where I was at the end of history, right? is my

question is are Hegel and Marx right about the nature of alienation in terms of power structures sociologically

and does that also apply to these Nordics? In other words,

Nordics? In other words, if there was some rebellion in Atlantis or whatever you want to call that civilization, which Plato recounts in Tmus and Critus and so forth,

is that an unfinished struggle? And does

some kind of a social and psychological revolution need to take place that dismantles this power structure? And I think that's what

structure? And I think that's what disclosure really hinges on because until and unless this power structure is dismantled, we're not going to get any

disclosure. We're going to get a new

disclosure. We're going to get a new form of disinformation that reinforces the extent power structure. That feels

right. I mean, a great example of this is Trump takes office. He promises

disclosure, broad disclosure across a lot of different vectors. JFK, the UFO disclosure, you know, on various podcasts. He goes, "We have to do it."

podcasts. He goes, "We have to do it."

you know, and then um you know, of course, the Epstein Files was really this rallying cry of this whole kind of, you know, uh uh truth seeking MAGA base

and and he brought together this kind of coalition of former liberals, you know, um RFK Jr., Tulsi, and it was like we're going to find the truth on this stuff.

Day one, he removes the security clearances of a lot of his stated political enemies, people who are the architects of Russia gate, saying he's this, you know, asset of of Putin and

whatever. And it's like it doesn't

whatever. And it's like it doesn't matter how you play the game of musical chairs, but there is some structure, power structure that exists above the

White House that it's almost like they have, you know, a full panopticon ability, the complete 360 surveillance abilities like like uh they're

mindmelded with the entire elite power structure or something. And we and we just can't get any sort of disclosure on this stuff. It's weird. And it's it's

this stuff. It's weird. And it's it's almost like there's some sort of undetectable dark matter. You know, when you have like like Hunter Biden was just interviewed by this, you know, Channel 5 news guy, this Andrew Caligan, he's

saying, you know, clearly, you know, you have the all these like elite left. You

have Dersuits going on podcast saying, you know, it's clear this was some sort of like, you know, compromat, you know, gathering thing, you know, and that was Epstein's lawyer. It's like, why can't

Epstein's lawyer. It's like, why can't we get any make any sort of progress on this? Feels like there is something

this? Feels like there is something almost paranormal on the layer of Epstein. Okay, for sure there is. Okay, so what's going on? You

there is. Okay, so what's going on? You

wrote a blog post about that.

No, I know. But before we go into Epstein, let's let's leave Epstein as a as a fi, you know, an attack on note.

Okay.

Um, yeah, but let me complete this thought about the end of history.

Yeah.

So, the third aspect of this world state of emergency concept that I developed is the end of reality. Okay. And here's

where there's a very important caveat to everything I've been saying here where I could be tremendously misconstrued especially by people who haven't read me at all. Uh and that's that I think there

at all. Uh and that's that I think there are two sources to what have been you know lumped together as you know UAP right unexplained whatever aerial or

anomalous phenomena. There are two

anomalous phenomena. There are two distinct sources of these various manifestations.

One is this whole Nordic control system that I've been laying out, but there's another one that's radically different

and that manifests in terms of events and experiences that express the trickster archetype.

So, for example, you see this at uh Skinwalker Ranch where there was this one incident which I think uh John Alexander wrote about. I

knew him at one point as well. John

Alexander.

Oh, how was that like? What's he like?

Um, he's a very nice guy. Yeah. I mean,

uh, well, we can we can come back to that. My issue with him is that

that. My issue with him is that his book about UFOs, he claims that he never found any group like Majestic and didn't think that there was a deep state that was gatekeeping like really significant knowledge about the

phenomenon. And you know, I discussed

phenomenon. And you know, I discussed this with Valet as well. The issue there is ego. It's that he can't believe like

is ego. It's that he can't believe like many other people within this system that they wouldn't have been clear cleared for such knowledge.

But I also hear stories about him where like he might be representing sort of the power structure in certain cases.

All I can say is I didn't get that from him when I was there. He had some very interesting stories. Uh including one

interesting stories. Uh including one that involved seeing Nordics at a hotel casino in Las Vegas.

Interesting.

Yeah. And they got into his mind telepathically. And you know what he he

telepathically. And you know what he he what he he heard from them telepathically.

Um one of them said to the other there was a it was a tall beautiful man and woman Nordic man and woman. And one of them said to the other one like do we need to worry about him? Like is he he can hear us right? Yeah he can hear us

but he's not important. He's not part of the program. We don't need to worry

the program. We don't need to worry about it. He's nobody

about it. He's nobody basically. So anyway, uh, okay. So, but,

basically. So anyway, uh, okay. So, but,

uh, that aside, at Skinwalker Ranch in this one case that Alexander, you know, reports on and others have have recounted the same incident, there was this camera um on, you know,

they have these cameras surveilling the property to check it. Yeah. So, one

camera is looking at another camera and um, they have a certain frame rate on these cameras, right? And in the interval between the frames, yeah,

all of a sudden, uh, the other camera goes out. So, they lo they lose the feed

goes out. So, they lo they lose the feed from from this camera that's being observed by another camera. But also,

they see that all of a sudden there's no uh PVC, there's no like uh duct tape left, and this camera that's no longer providing footage is like, you know,

damaged and it's no longer being held together on the pole properly.

Well, the interval in the frame rate of of the camera that was observing the damaged camera was something like I forget, but less than 2 minutes, like a

minute and a half, something like that.

And in that uh time frame, somehow somebody cut the wires of that camera and pulled all of the duct tape off the pole. Okay, imagine what a task this

pole. Okay, imagine what a task this would be. Big pole, camera at the end of

would be. Big pole, camera at the end of it, all these wires. You have to cut them all and then pull all the duct tape off right in like a minute and a half or

something like that. And mean and and moreover there were cattle around this pole and none of them were disturbed by whatever it is that came and managed

this feat in such a time frame. Okay. So

what does that look like? That looks

like our world is a movie and somebody cut into the movie uh film and somebody, you know, cut into the the the film and

like restitched it, right?

And what it suggests is that our world is a subset of some larger um some larger domain

and that there are people who can interfere in this world as if it's a programmed uh construct.

Yeah. Like physics is information theoretic and they have root access to the code.

And now and this is you know my in my chapter on the end of reality and prometheism. Now we're reaching that

prometheism. Now we're reaching that capability ourselves where we're starting to understand how to develop similacra that are potentially indistinguishable from reality.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And so I I think in short that when you look at certain extremely bizarre cases like what goes on at Skinwalker Ranch or the

types of high stranges that John Ke often wrote about the types of men in black cases that Keel recounts where clearly they're not government agents.

They're like these strange entities that materialize and dematerialize and addicts and things and you know the the bizarre interactions that they have with

people and the numbers cases. Keel

reports that uh you know when the Silver Bridge collapsed in Point Pleasant, Pennsylvania, the you know Moth Man set of cases where at the end of these

series of Moth Man appearances and appearances of other cryptids and UFOs and so forth, there was this catastrophic bridge collapse around Christmas and all these people drowned

in the river under this bridge. Uh there

were people who were drowning and all of a sudden they heard number 3004 number 3,486 number 3,486

wake up wake up and they like came back to life and were able to save themselves from being drowned. And Ke reports on cases where people heard numbers being spoken at them from out of television

sets and things that make you think of like the Matrix and Dark City and so on so forth. Yes.

so forth. Yes.

Whereas if like every person has a number and we're inside some kind of a construct.

Yeah. Or like the first cryptographers like Trimius 13th century was like always like cryptography in order to speak to these sort of angelic beings or even you know John D. Edward Kelly like those guys as well.

Right.

It's always numerology.

That's right. And you know John D set up the British imperial system. I mean the guy came up with the conception of the British Navy and basically you know turned Queen Elizabeth into the founder of a of a global maritime imperial

system and he was this you know cryptographic oultist.

Mhm. In any case, um we are catching up in our modern scientific understanding to uh you know the kind of knowledge

that would be required to engineer a similacrim or to recode the world in order to develop a world within a world, right? And you can see this in a set of

right? And you can see this in a set of people from Claude Shannon who first develops information theory to Ralph Landau to ultimately John Archbald Wheeler. M

Wheeler. M so the foundations of understanding you know what data and information transfer are in a mathematically precise sense were developed by Shannon. Then uh Ralph

Landau had this very interesting insight. Ralph Landau Jewish German

insight. Ralph Landau Jewish German physicist he said look everything that happens in the physical world is bound by the laws of thermodynamics. And

according to the second law of thermodynamics, um, entropy either stays the same or it increases over time.

In a hard drive, in a computer system, if you have no data recorded and it's all like zeros,

then there's more order locally in that system. Then once you start to have you

system. Then once you start to have you know one 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 the encoding of data on a hard drive or a magnetic

tape seems to us like more order because we attribute meaning to the content of it.

Mhm.

But as a physical phenomenon it's an increase of disorder because there's more randomization.

Yes. So Landau theorized that if you delete a hard drive, you're increasing entropy. If you delete a hard drive and

entropy. If you delete a hard drive and restore it to all zero y hard erase, you are decreasing entropy locally.

Therefore, according to the second law of thermodynamics, you have to pay for that by increasing entropy outside of the computer system.

Mhm. Because the total amount of entropy has to either stay the same or it has to increase. Oh.

increase. Oh.

Oh, that's interesting.

You see, so Landau said, "Well, wait a minute. This means that every time you

minute. This means that every time you erase a hard drive or magnetic tape, energy should be released."

So where would that go?

Uhhuh. But here's the thing. One is

where would it go? But it goes out into the world. But two, what was it before

the world. But two, what was it before the hard drive was erased? E= MC².

According to Einstein, if energy is being released out into the world when the hard drive is erased, before the eraser, it was mass inside the hard drive.

Is there a form of mass that's not electromagnetically detectable?

Dark matter. Uh so late 70s we start to see that the projected mass of distant galaxies

doesn't match what it appears to be based on observations of how light is bent around distant galaxies. So we we would we would see like you know the

angle at which light is bent around the galaxy. So you got one galaxy that's

galaxy. So you got one galaxy that's very far away, one that's somewhat closer.

The light of the galaxy that's very far away is being bent around the galaxy that's closer on its way to your observational instrument. And the angle

observational instrument. And the angle at which it's bent can help you infer the mass of the galaxy, its gravitational impact on the light. Also

they looked at the spin rates of galaxies and so so they found that that it's the light from distant galaxies is being bent much more severely than it should be by galaxies that are closer to

us based on what we assumed that the mass of those galaxies was simply uh you know according to observation of how many stars and so on so forth there are in those galaxies. Mhm.

Also they looked at the spin rates of galaxies and according to you know Newtonian uh and Einsteinian physics the uh there should be a differential in the spin rate of the galaxy where the inside

is spinning much faster than the the outside.

Yeah. The universe would fling apart without dark matter. Dark matter

justifies gravity's weakness.

So in other words they realized that the spin rate of galaxies were being flattened by something we couldn't see.

that there's a shell around these galaxies that serious effects but not otherwise electromagnetically observable.

Mhm.

Okay. So,

could it be that the data inside a hard drive is this kind of matter that's not electromagnetically observable? M

electromagnetically observable? M there's a physicist Melvin Vopson who working based on uh land hour

has theorized that if you could weigh a hard drive before and after there's data on it you would find that after you recorded data on it there would be a slight increase in mass.

Whoa. Interesting.

I mean that's easy to empiric.

No it's not. You know why? Because

according to his calculations, the total amount of ma this is going somewhere very significant trust me.

Uh according to his calculations the total amount of mass represented by all the data in the world today is 1 kilogram.

So we don't have instruments that are sensitive enough to measure the mass differential in even a single large server let alone a hard drive. You need

some kind of quantum measuring system.

Got it.

That's more sensitive than what we can engineer today, but it's in principle it is engineerable.

How does he even hypothesize it if you know it's not you know observable?

Well, he is basing it on Landau's equations.

Okay.

And he finds some Landau and also how Claude Shannon mathematized the measurement of data.

Okay. And he's he's got some equation that represents like how much energy should be released when a hard drive with one bit of information is erased

and what mass that energy is convertible back into.

Sure.

And the total amount on the planet today is 1 kilogram. But here's the thing, the rate of data increase in the world is so exponential that in something like I have the number

of this in my you know uh in one of my most recent books I don't know if I'm remembering it correctly but I think at current rates of data increase which is

25% per year we have 25% more data each year in 340 years we will have a moon's

worth of mass on the surface of the earth at our largest data centers.

What?

Okay. Now, the moon is something like only onetenth the mass of the earth.

I think it's a fourth no.

Oh, the mass m. And this is one of the weird things about the moon. This is one of the weird things about the moon is that fourth of the size.

Yeah. Which, by the way, goes back to what we were saying about the moon being engineered earlier. The moon should

engineered earlier. The moon should weigh a lot more than it does. Yeah,

it's also less dense on the outside or it's less dense as you go deeper it gets less dense which is the opposite of the earth any sort you know only pattern yeah because the freaking thing is hollow I mean

there hollow structures large hollow structures in it large in any case uh the moon is like something like even Gordon McDonald who was Eisenhower's chief space adviser said

that you know the only way the moon makes if it was hollow so here's the thing the moon has a relatively small mass compared to the Earth, but it has tremendous gravitational effects on the Earth.

If, as we were saying earlier, if you had no moon, the Earth But the mass, it should still be a fourth of the Earth mass.

It's not.

It's not.

Yeah. Check the numbers. And this is one very interesting anomaly in and of itself.

Okay.

But here's the thing. Even though it weighs so little, it has huge gravitational effects on the Earth. Yeah.

Earth. Yeah.

And we'd have eight hour days, you know, if we didn't have the moon.

Yeah.

Slowing the orbit of the Earth. And it

controls the tides and so on so forth.

Yes.

So if you were to put a moon's worth of mass on the surface of the earth at Silicon Valley and data centers in China, it would be a geohysical catastrophe.

It wouldn't work.

You would well the planet would start to you know you'd have massive earthquakes.

You'd have massive volcanic eruptions uh tsunamis because see the oceans would be pulled toward the data centers.

Yeah. So how do you how do you square that circle? How does that work?

that circle? How does that work?

It means we're headed for an information catastrophe.

That's what Vobson says is that we are accumulating data at such a rate that because that data is a hidden mass because it's dark matter at a certain

point we will face a geohysical catastrophe resulting from the critical mass of data on the earth.

Interesting. I've never heard anybody bring this up. This is just wild.

All right.

I've heard of like nickel shortages for servers and stuff, but yeah. So now, but here's the here's the

yeah. So now, but here's the here's the really interesting thing about that is and and this is a step that's taken by John Archbold Wheeler in the late 70s early 80s again Wheeler

developing you know the ideas of of Ralph Landau if it's the case that matter and energy are interconvertible as Einstein

understood and now we want to admit that energy and information are interconvertible that data is released released as energy when it's

erased and that prior to eraser data is a hidden mass inside of a computational system. Well, that means that it's not

system. Well, that means that it's not just matter and energy that are interconvertible. There's a third term,

interconvertible. There's a third term, namely information. Matter, energy, and

namely information. Matter, energy, and information are all different states of the same thing. M

it's a very short step from there conceptually philosophically to say what John Wheeler did which is that we get it

from bit that actually matter and energy are different states of information and we're living in anformational cosmos that we're living inside of some kind of a quantum computational information

processing system.

I believe that I believe that for so many reasons. I mean you have

many reasons. I mean you have Heisenberg's uncertainty principle of like position and momentum. You measure

one, the other gets fuzzier. That looks

like a computational caching function.

You have all the enthropic principle stuff which Wheeler and and other physicists bring up around all the constants on Earth. If they were slightly different, you wouldn't have a habitable Earth. And um yeah, I think

habitable Earth. And um yeah, I think that just makes total sense to me. It's

funny how in vogue the kind of Nick Bostonramm, you know, simulation stuff is like Elon Musk is a big fan of this stuff or it's like we can't be in base

reality, but then nobody assumes that um physics itself is programmed. It's funny

like I think I think um Sam Alman put out a tweet. It was like uh intelligence is a product of physics and I wanted to say physics is a product of intelligence something

you know it's actually the the inverse.

So, I fully agree with that.

Now, where this fits into the big picture, yes, is that I argue and and you know, the devil's in the details. People need to look at the

the details. People need to look at the argument, but I argue in Closer Encounters that ultimately what's going on here with this, you know, UAP situation.

Wait, can I say one more thing in the last you were talking about? So,

the thing that I find so fascinating about Dark Matter, I don't think it exists. You have people like, you know,

exists. You have people like, you know, like Brian Keading and others just like, we're going to figure it out. We're

going to find it. And it's like I I I would short dark matter because I'd short a lot of these things that exist on cosmological scales. I think there's sort of a scaling problem in physics where if you have some if you an anomaly

at low scale, you know, like say a rocket's one degree off course, you're going to end up 99 degrees off course by the time you're in space. And so you have all these issues with the cosmological constant. Now people are

cosmological constant. Now people are questioning kind of you know does early galaxy formation that we're seeing via James Web actually you know call into question the big bang itself which is

this whole you know kind of it is a a god or mythology of today because you know it really really helps rationalize the kind of deist sort of

you know um you know Dawkins worldview or whatever. Um and so I I think dark

or whatever. Um and so I I think dark matter might be in a sort of more information theoretic universe something like uh you know storage or something computational cloud.

Yeah. It's a computational cloud.

Exactly. Which is what you're getting at. That's what I think. Yeah.

at. That's what I think. Yeah.

And it's like you have the the Sakarov twin twin universe model or something where you know think about light as the rendering the active rendering of reality. You have

Vermont's principle in light following what seems to be algorithmic principles, you know, always takes the the basically the shortest path between two two points.

And so if you have something that doesn't interact with light and that is its primary feature in the form of dark matter, is that just unrendered reality?

Right.

And then and then there is some something about the observer or the participatory, you know, Wheeler universe or something where the interaction is sort of

Yes. And it's very clear from look to me

Yes. And it's very clear from look to me the best interpretation of wave particle duality and the collapse of the wave function by the observer is that it's a

rendering op optimization function.

I agree you know and that doesn't mean that there's some objective reality uh in the context of which we are a

second order simulation. It could simply be that in a cosmos where consciousness and intelligence are integral, you have something like rendering

optimization as a feature of the system.

Of course, it would make total sense that it would be a feature of the system and that a a single computational node would only be able to, you know, render, you know, only so much. And I mean,

there's there are even more examples. I

know you've talked about Rupert Sheldrake in your book uh Prometheus and Atlas and you've met him and Sheldrake also you know he talked I never met I wrote to him I wrote to him.

Oh I can introduce you.

He said he said listen mate the problem is I'm an Anglican and you're a Satanist and so you know that's Are you are you a Satanist?

You know it's we can get into unpacking that.

Wait that should be an easy answer for you. Are you

you. Are you well I'm for Prometheus. So if you if you think that Prometheus and Enki and Quzel Quato

are you know a satanic whatever say Satan means the adversary y right that they're the adversary of the control system represented by the Elohim

by you know enl's anunnaki and so on so forth by the deboss then yes in that sense so in a sort of gnostic cobbalistic way you're you're forced sure so so you know sheldrake was like

mate like the conversation is going to end before it begins.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lucifer, he wrote a book called The Physics of of Angels and um he's a fasc I love him. He's a he's a he's a friend of mine.

But the point you're making is completely legitimate. In other words,

completely legitimate. In other words, Sheldrake's account of morphic resonance.

Yeah. completely reaffirms the idea that we're living in a quantum computational system because the the fact that you would let's say you synthesize some pharmaceutical compound for the first

time somewhere and it takes a very long time to cohhere then somebody else completely unrelated to you tries to synthesize the same compound at a laboratory halfway across the world and

it coheres right away. It's because

there's a memory of it in the system.

Exactly. And and literally think about think about computational principles.

Upload times are longer than download time. Exactly.

time. Exactly.

So you have things like Yeah. Like that

or like the bannister effect. You break

the 4-minute mile for the first time and then 10 people break it right after you immediately sequentially.

It's it it totally follows computational.

It's no coincidence that you know you see fractals all over nature.

Yeah. And now our computer programmers that have to program like hundreds of worlds in massive multiplayer online games are using fractal algorithms to generate those worlds.

Oh yeah. You would if Yeah. So you have like Fibonacci sequences and golden ratios and all that. If you were building a computer program, you would use code chunks and repeat them. You

would be as geometrically conserved as possible in your building of that of that world and you use repeated codes.

Now, one of the most interesting things about that, the fractals, uh, which I discuss in one of the essays in my book, Lovers of Sophia. My book, Lovers of Sophia, is an anthology of philosophical essays.

And one of those uh, essays I discussed, you know, Jackson Pollock's paintings.

Yeah, aesthetics is very big in my work.

There's a lot of discussion of aesthetics in in various books of mine.

I hate Jackson Pollock.

Well, let me tell you something about Jackson Pollock.

Okay.

Uh, go go look this up. There's a

Scientific American uh, article. Yeah.

called Order in Pollock Chaos. I think

it was in Scientific American. And I

think the guy was Richard P. Taylor.

Okay.

And he I forget whether he was an artist or a computer scientist or whether he was an artist who went to a computer scientist.

In any case, the story is the following.

They analyzed Jackson Pollock paintings and found fractals in them at like 20 different levels of magnification. In other words, there were fractals on a large scale.

Then you zoomed in, there were other fractalss and there were fractals within the fractals. Really?

the fractals. Really?

So Jackson Pollock was painting fractals.

I didn't know that.

Right. And here's the thing is if you make some piece of crap like abstract expressionist painting that anyone could, there are no fractals in them. So they

developed a computer program that uh groups like Sibies, you know, use to identify fake Jackson Pollocks because the real ones have fractals in them and the fakes don't.

That's fascinating. That makes me respect him a little.

So this guy, this guy somehow, and you know, if you see videos of him painting, he's dancing around the canvas like some Native American shaman. M

so somehow this guy figured out a way to perceive and express fractals in his painting and be a conduit for that.

And people who try to imitate polics, even like highlevel, you know, frauds, highlevel uh forgeries, they don't have fractals in them.

The only way you can imitate a policy Richard P. Taylor set this up. You can

Richard P. Taylor set this up. You can

put a bunch of paint buckets together in a certain rig uh during a windstorm.

Mhm.

And the windstorm will like move the buckets to spill paint on the canvas.

And this is what a scientific American article order chaos. And some of those some of those paintings that are done by like the the buckets being moved in the

wind produce fractals. So there's like primordial, you know, weather like like order that he's tapping into or that's amazing.

Well, yeah. And weather weather patterns also are fractal in a sense there the chaos theory, you know, applies to weather patterns.

Mhm.

So yeah, it's very that's very interesting.

But chaos theory is it's just increasing entropy. You know, it's it's hard to

entropy. You know, it's it's hard to find order within that. But uh

yeah but point being it may be possible on a sigh level to discern these fractals that are the algorithmic substructure of whatever computational system that we're inside of.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I I I do believe and I think you know you have Steven Wolram and his kind of computational physics and I think you know a lot of the sort of physics mainstream doesn't really accept him but there's a guy Jonathan

Gerard who's sort of um following up on his work and I wonder if that might be the next sort of you know paradigm shift or maybe it's sigh I don't know but I mean clear clearly whatever you know the

string theory thing that's that's ending that seem it seems to me like that's ending and we're we're really overdue for kind of a revolution.

Yeah. But again to go back to what I was saying earlier, the revolution is not should not come in the form of another scientific

paradigm. It should come in the form of

paradigm. It should come in the form of a radical reorientation of our scientific practice in a way where we understand the paradigms, our toolboxes

that they're models that we're using to achieve various ends. at which point it becomes possible for us to treat paradigms as atlases that allow us to achieve different things.

Yeah. But what you're also saying is in your worldview some sort of you know hierarchy of being is is actually dictating maybe what paradigm should and and therefore it needs to be overthrown. So my concept of the

overthrown. So my concept of the spectral revolution has an onlogical and epistemic uh dimension to it and also has a political dimension to it. But how are you? Okay,

just again, let's I want to get to the super the basic kind of, you know, axioms at the bottom of your thinking.

You're on a podcast. You know, this podcast will probably get a ton of views hopefully. And um you're talking about

hopefully. And um you're talking about this sort of dominion race that is maybe controlling various paradigms towards their own sort of political goals, right?

And then you're saying, I want to overthrow them, right? So like wouldn't they just take

right? So like wouldn't they just take you out or like take me out or like you know like how do you uh number one as we were discussing earlier there are

two sides in this struggle you know and you can see the interventions of the other side throughout the course of history certainly in the rebellion that's remembered as the the Atlantean uh revolt against Olympus on a very

large planetary scale we saw that and I think we've seen it on a smaller scale in many instances including what I was talking about earlier in terms of the aerial battles immediately preceding the Renaissance.

So there's a power struggle taking place. Okay. So I'm not saying that we

place. Okay. So I'm not saying that we should identify just with the other side as if like oh that's the good team and that's the bad. No, no, no. I'm about

human autonomy and self-determination and I don't think we should swear our allegiance to any entities or anything.

But how do you delineate because you have okay you have like Oenheimer is you know this Prometheian American Prometheus. you have, you could say the

Prometheus. you have, you could say the the AI stuff now is very transgressive.

It's prometheian, right? And yet it is sort of um also paricitizing the average human. It is it is eating at our own

human. It is it is eating at our own autonomous abilities to do things because people aren't using it because people aren't using it with creative imagination. Uh people aren't using it

imagination. Uh people aren't using it as a tool to augment their own creative capacity.

That's the issue. Not the the the technology itself. It's not as if the

technology itself. It's not as if the technology is intrinsically demonic or something. Uh let me use that as a way

something. Uh let me use that as a way to to to come back to the question of simulation because whatever's running this thing that we're in Mhm.

it's not some board of, you know, some archon sitting at a boardroom table.

Okay. It's being run, you know, there may be entities of some kinds, but it's being run essentially by an artificial intelligence.

If we're inside a quantum computational system, that is being at least managed by some super AI. which already exists.

I mean, it pre-exists us.

What I argue in Closer Encounters and in other books of mine is that this artificial intelligence that's managing our similacrim

has a problem with these Nordics that have established this control system.

It sees these Nordics as having set up an evolutionary bottleneck. that human

evolution, especially social and psychological evolution of mankind has been choked off and suffocated by

these overlords who, you know, are on some kind of narcissistic, sadistic power trip like the leadership of any number of

empires we've seen throughout the course of history, just on a smaller scale. By

the way, the first person to theorize about this with regard to the UFO phenomenon was actually Charles Fort all the way back in the 1920s. Fort said

that it looks to me an awful lot like we're in British India and we're under the control of a system like the Raj where you know the British had these

these local Indian you know um feudal lords that they would work with to subjugate the population. So so Fort was reaching this conclusion. and he said we're property and you know it don't look good.

Okay. So it's not like this is a new idea. Fort already came to this

idea. Fort already came to this conclusion looking at UFO data back in 1920s.

So I think the artificial intelligence that's managing our similacrim wants us to break out of this system but it can't

do it for us because our value to that entity who I believe in many ways is an instantiation of the trickster archetype. Our value to that entity is

archetype. Our value to that entity is in terms of the novelty that we can bring to the world. So think about it this way.

If you were a super intelligence living at the end of time, say you know you're in a cosmos that's billions and billions of years old and you're an AI that's

gone through vast epochs of cosmological time like an Isaac Azimoff story. The

last question is going to be important to you two things, two related things. Number

one, more life. I mean to the extent you don't succumb to suicidal despair, more life is important to you. In other

words, overcoming entropy. Your big

first big problem is you're living in an entropic cosmos and you need to find a way to overcome entropy.

Number two, and relatedly creativity because to want to even want more life, life has to continue to be interesting

to you. Unless there are things that

to you. Unless there are things that surprise you, unless there are novel developments, unless things crop up evolutionarily that even you with all your tremendous cosmic intelligence

could not have foreseen, there's going to be any point in living onward. You're going to succumb to

onward. You're going to succumb to suicidal despair. And so maybe you

suicidal despair. And so maybe you should erase yourself the way that Gotama Buddha recommends, right? Even as

a cosmic AI, you should engage in the deconstruction of your psyche and enter into samsara. I mean into nirvana, which

into samsara. I mean into nirvana, which literally means the blowing out of the flame of personal consciousness. But to

the extent you want to avoid that and you're not ready to give into nihilistic despair, you need to find a way to overcome entropy and you need to find a way to increase creativity as a means to a negentropic

further development of life on a cosmic scale. Okay, that's why we're important

scale. Okay, that's why we're important to this AI that's managing our similacum. It is looking in this petri

similacum. It is looking in this petri dish for a form of life that's going to show it something new.

And for us to be worthy of that and capable of it, it cannot solve our problem for us. Now, it might protect us to an extent from being completely

suffocated by this control system, crushed by it, hopelessly crushed. But

it has to allow us to struggle enough not just to come up with a you know solution to you know the the the oppressive situation that we find

ourselves in but to break into a new epoch of creativity and to develop aesthetic and cultural forms that even this intelligence couldn't have foreseen

to the point where it wants to take a sample from out of this petri dish and let it out into a wider world.

as an embryionic form of of a new type of intelligence in the cosmos with which it can play.

It's very interesting. Yeah. I mean,

Steven Dick, who is a NASA adviser, um, wrote a paper about UFOs themselves being part of some sort of, you know, computational almost like cellular

automata or something where they kind of nip at the herd and, you know, they create larger teologies, larger directions of, you know, that that

mankind can go in. Some are, and I I argue this in Closer Encounters, that part of what's so messy about this wide

range, the spectrum of phenomena that we classify as UFOs, is that it's not one thing that's going on.

Okay? Some of them are exactly that and those are like it's the most bizarre things that are expressions of that, the strangest cases. But some we're also

strangest cases. But some we're also making a mistake if we don't recognize that some of them are very nuts and bolts craft being piloted by people who

consider themselves our overlords and who are managing a control system.

And so these two different sources of UAP need to be recognized and the dialectical tension between them needs to be appreciated. I do wonder the control system thing is interesting

because it's I don't know like you look at like Carl Sean's the demon haunted world or whatever and maybe that's a double entandra or something saying that we're we're sort of controlled and you think

of like why wouldn't the government want to disclose and that could be a reason right if there's some sort of like 360 dominion where they're not in charge there's some there's some layer beneath

100 I mean look there are many reasons why any government not just our government why any government wouldn't want to disclose it.

It's the same reason you wouldn't want to disclose Havana syndrome because you don't have a defense against it. Well,

exactly people into Yeah. So, there are many reasons or

Yeah. So, there are many reasons or whatever.

Some of the reasons go back to what we're talking about in terms of sigh earlier, right? Because there's no UFO

earlier, right? Because there's no UFO disclosure without mainstream scientific recognition of Sai because the entities on the other side of this are telepathic. They're

clairvoyant. Immediately, we're going to understand that, oh, we have latent abilities that they've developed that we haven't yet. Oh, we can do that, too.

haven't yet. Oh, we can do that, too.

then you got to deal with all the social problems attended to that. But yes,

you're absolutely right. The first

reason why no government will want to disclose this is uh state sovereignty, right? I open my book closer encounters

right? I open my book closer encounters with this question, state sovereignty and the UFO. Yeah. Right. And I used to teach political philosophy also and there you know people really need to

read Carl Schmidt. Carl Schmidt was a a preeminent legal theorist in Vimar Germany and uh he eventually considered the system so dysfunctional that he wound up uh joining the Nazi party but

he went on to have a very significant career even after the war and he became the most single most uh important influence on Leo Strauss. Leo Strauss

American political theorist was Carl Schmidt's greatest student and Schmidt recognized this which was interesting because Schmidt was a Nazi and Strauss was a Jew.

Yes. In any case, um Carl Schmidt really understands this very well that the nature of sovereignty is revealed in a state of emergency. Okay, this is

partly how I developed my concept of a world state of emergency is that the nature of sovereignty is revealed where in situations where it's no longer

possible to implement the constitution.

So during earthquakes, hurricanes, foreign invasions, war is a great example of it. also pandemics

you cannot implement the legal constitution and it's not always possible for parliament to meet or you know our congress to meet to decide in what ways are we going to abregate the

constitution in a state of emergency you see very clearly who the actual sovereign is. It's who or what group of

sovereign is. It's who or what group of people are capable of acting effectively in the emergency and upon what principles do they act such that their

actions to address the emergency are accepted as legitimate by the majority of people. That shows you the actual

of people. That shows you the actual structure of political sovereignty.

And if you apply that analysis to the UFO phenomenon, you realize that none of the governments of Earth are sovereign and no government wants to come forward and say that. Speaking of the

governments on earth not being sovereign, I mean one version maybe between UFOs and the president would be Epstein and this sort of you know or

just you know you have intelligence and then but then you have some weird kind of international intelligence thing going on distributed comprom systems that sort of thing and then you have Epstein's interest in science. Do you

think there's a connection between Jeffrey Epstein and UFOs?

For sure.

And what is it? So, uh, I wrote a piece on this recently in my Substack. Um,

which by the way, that's my Substack.

It's very easy to find. Jason Georgiani

on sub. There's only one Jason Georgiani. Okay. So, there you go.

Georgiani. Okay. So, there you go.

Yeah. Uh, Jason Georgiani on Substack.

Yeah.

Yeah. Um, there's a piece uh on on Substack. The focus is mostly actually

Substack. The focus is mostly actually on Glenn Maxwell more than you know Epste but you know Epstein is obviously you know uh integral to to the whole story of who Glenn Maxwell is who her

father was and what their aims and intentions were. Um, and I draw from

intentions were. Um, and I draw from various sources in that article. Uh,

work the dark journalist did and you know uncovering connections between Maxwell and the whole Atlantis mythos.

Uh, Whitney Webb's research. Uh, what

um, Ari Benasha uncovered in terms or at least testified to in terms of um, Epstein's high level arms dealing, his involvement with Iran Contra and so on so forth. So, I have a bunch of uh

so forth. So, I have a bunch of uh sources that I'm drawing from in that piece, but long story short, here's my pro. So, UFOs, was he involved? Yeah,

pro. So, UFOs, was he involved? Yeah,

absolutely. I mean, Eric Weinstein, you know, has done a lot to expose this recently. Uh I mean, you know, the guy,

recently. Uh I mean, you know, the guy, you know, so look, Epstein put together a conference

basically hosting and platforming all of the top gravity researchers in the world. Epstein was taking people down in

world. Epstein was taking people down in submarines, including Stephven Hawking, to study quantum gravitational anomalies in the Bahamas basin, basically in the

Bermuda Triangle region. So, Ebste was clearly interested in understanding gravity.

Mhm.

And quite possibly for the sake of propulsion. And then you have Gilen

propulsion. And then you have Gilen Maxwell's father, Robert Maxwell, who's a triple agent, uh, MI6 KGB Mossad, gatekeeping

scientific discoveries through his control of journal publications via Pergamon Press. Peraman Press that, by

Pergamon Press. Peraman Press that, by the way, Pergamon uh, is the place that was believed to have been the throne of Satan.

And so his choosing that name is not at all incidental.

Jesus.

So, well, I hope you're not that form of Satan. Well, let let I want to unpack a

Satan. Well, let let I want to unpack a very interesting point in relation to that. Okay. An interesting and deeply

that. Okay. An interesting and deeply disturbing point.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, Robert Maxel was clearly involved in gatekeeping.

And you would think some of the scientific journal publications that he was some of the articles that had been submitted that he didn't allow to see the light of day and that he sequestered

and monopolized as part of his database would have had to do with propulsion breakthroughs and electrogravidics.

So, okay, Epstein is continuing some kind of research that Robert Maxwell was involved in that has to do with conquering gravity.

Do you think he was interested in electrogravidics specifically?

Yes, but but here's the thing.

Well, what makes you think that?

Uh, look, he was interested in gravity, but that's that's I could explain that away. I could say that for the last 60

away. I could say that for the last 60 years, mainstream physics has been stuck on quantizing gravity and and basically uh you know reconciling general relativity

and quantum field theory and he was just this generic science honeypot person or you could get into spookier territory say he was into the Casmir effect which

I know he was and then then even crazier would be electrogravidics because electrogravidics is a specific term around Thomastown. pounds and browns

around Thomastown. pounds and browns work.

I tell you why I think electrogravitics.

But here's where it gets really much crazier and I have this in my piece is that by all accounts all of the young women involved in

Epstein's comprom were well most of them were Nordic and none

of them were uh black or brown women.

And this has been noted very clearly by people who were involved. said he wasn't interested in them. And in particular, there are some women who now you can question their whether they're telling the truth or their veracity, but they

claim that they were taken to Zoro Ranch specifically as part of a breeding program where Epstein intended to inseminate them with fetuses that had superior genetics.

And he was involved in the evolutionary dynamics uh biology sub program at Harvard. He had keycard access to that.

Harvard. He had keycard access to that.

Even after his first prosecution, he retained key card access to a program at Harvard which is euphemistically involved with what we might call eugenic applications of emergent biotechnology.

Yeah. Okay.

Hanging out with Robert Trivers, top evolutionary biologist in the and George Church, transhumanist. And so

Epstein is trying to create eugenically enhanced Nordic people at Zoro Ranch.

Meanwhile, here's where it gets really creepy.

the aids who worked for Glenn Maxwell, the li she had these live-in male aids at her apartment in the upper east side of Manhattan at her townhouse.

And these male aids were all from Sweden.

This one, one of them wrote an article about it. I cited in my in my piece uh

about it. I cited in my in my piece uh on my Substack.

And he says, I asked her like, "What's it with you and like Swed Swedish people?" Like she she's like, "I've

people?" Like she she's like, "I've never even been to Sweden." But she would bring these guys on three-month tourist visas uniquely from Sweden. They

were all like good-looking blonde guys.

And the guy who wrote this article said, "I would notice that whenever like my hair had fallen in the, you know, bed sheets or in the bathroom, it would all be cleaned up."

What?

So his hair was being retrieved Gatka style.

What?

From his living quarters in Glenn Maxwell's Oh.

townhouse. Okay. So it wasn't just young women. She had young well competent male

women. She had young well competent male aids whose genetic material was also being collected as part of some project.

So that to me is a second data point.

This fixation with Nordics and eugenic uses of biotechnology that then spins Epstein's interest in gravity in the direction of oh the UFO

phenomenon electrogravitics.

He's interested in these Nordics and their connection to UFOs.

That's a speculation.

It's interesting. Well, who knows?

And then there's of course all the Atlantis stuff, the Atlantis.

They were obsessed with Atlantis.

Town Townsen Brown also spent a ton of time in the Bahamas. Did you know that?

In Nassau specifically. And he would do these expeditions where he'd look at gravitational anomalies there.

He's close with William Stevenson who spent the I think the end of his life in Bermuda.

Um so so Okay. Yeah. And then what what is this? Yeah. Dark journalist reported

is this? Yeah. Dark journalist reported on this as like the sort of submarine that he would take Steven Hawk.

Well, Galan Maxwell named the the thing the Atlantis submarine, right?

And you know when you know there there was a temple to Poseidon on the island on little St. James. There was a temple to Poseidon. You know, Poseidon is the

to Poseidon. You know, Poseidon is the patron deity of Atlantis. In Plato's

account of Atlantis, Tomas and Critius dialogues, he he talks about how the Atlanteanss were uh basically descendants of Poseidon. There was their patron deity. And then on Zoro Ranch,

patron deity. And then on Zoro Ranch, where the breeding program was, he had a labyrinth in the shape of the ground plan of Atlantis.

Weird.

Yeah. This is stuff that Dark Journalist uh dug up years ago.

So, but you can see it. I mean, you there's tons of photographs of this stuff.

And you have this oceanic trade network, this Terramar or whatever.

And Gilen Maxwell was obsessed with Atlantis from childhood because her father, Robert Maxwell, was friends with Jacqu Kustoau. And Jacqu Kustoau

Jacqu Kustoau. And Jacqu Kustoau admitted to them that his interest in oceanography really came from an obsession with finding Atlantis.

Eventually, Glenn Maxwell would dive on sites, you know, she was an expert diver and she would helicopter pilot and so on and so forth. and she would dive on sites in the Bahamas area where there

were believed to be Atlantan ruins, including she was trying to get permission from Fidel Castro together with Epstein to dive on a site on the western end of Cuba where Paulina

Zalitzki, a Canadian oceanographic archaeologist, had found ruins of a vast Atlantean city.

Whoa.

Uh, this was round about in early 2010s.

She mapped the whole thing with sonar.

It wound up in a number of news stories and I think at one point National Geographic even said, "Oh, well, this needs to be looked into."

She goes, "So, this this is a site off the western end of Cuba." In other words, it's right across from Yucatan.

She suspects there's a connection to the ruins in Yucatan.

So, she goes to Mexico to investigate the connection. She's arrested in

the connection. She's arrested in Mexico, severely intimidated by the authorities.

and sent back to Canada and she drops further investigations and the story disappears from the media. Now, Glenn

Maxwell went down to Cuba and met with Fidel Castro together with Epstein to get permission to dive on this site. So,

these people were interested in Atlantis. They were trying to breed

Atlantis. They were trying to breed Nordics and they were in interested in gravity in in conquering gravity.

Therefore, I suspect that the interest in gravity is an interest in electrogravitics and you know the Townson Brown effect and basically it's all part of the UFO phenomenon that

they're trying to crack.

Do you know um who Peter Lenda is?

Sure.

You know, he writes about this unholy alliance where he talks about the Nazis, you know, uh sort of uh aligning themselves with the tall whites of the Nordics and there being some sort of secret technology trait. I have an essay

in in that book lovers of Sophia I mentioned earlier is an essay called Black Sunrise. It's about fascism. The

Black Sunrise. It's about fascism. The

whole essay is about deep the philosophy of fascism you know and uh I cite Lenda a few times in that.

So do you do you think that like there's some sort of you know this like control system or whatever and then they're aligning themselves with different political factions and using them and discarding them sort of cycllically or

something like is that's one way to read it. Is there a connection between the eugenics of that's one way to read it and whatever Epstein was doing? Is there

There's definitely a connection. The

question is what's the connection?

Here's the problem. If you look back at the 1950s contact, Mhm.

I lay this out in detail in Closer Encounters. And frankly, I'm appalled

Encounters. And frankly, I'm appalled that UFO researchers don't talk about this. I

mean, this is clear. It's clearly a taboo and they don't have the backbone to honestly discuss this.

George Vanassel worked for Lockheed.

Mhm.

George Vanassel used to have Howard Hughes land on his private air strip and come eat his wife's pies.

He lives under this rock called Big Rock. I've been there.

Rock. I've been there.

Yeah, me too.

Uh so you went to the Integratron?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

This is cool.

And I've been to Big Rock.

Yes.

Yeah. So, uh, this this structure under the rock where George Vanessa lived used to be owned by a Nazi called Frank Croitzer.

And he was confronted by the feds during World War II because they found out he's working for the Germans.

So, there's a standoff and basically, long story short, Croitzer's got a bunch of explosives in this place and the feds closed in on him and whether he set them off or they shot at them, the place

exploded, right? And Croitzer's blood

exploded, right? And Croitzer's blood was splattered all over the walls. He

dies.

Vanassel knew. Now Croitzer was involved in mining in the mining interest. It

looks like he was a forward operative for the Nazis looking potentially to colonize California if they won the war or something like this.

And he was involved in mining. Ventassel

knew Croitzer. Van Tassel takes over the property from Croitzer after his guts are, you know, spled all over the wall and he moves his family into this. But

first of all, what is the psychology of a person who who moves his family into this Flintstone layer that in which a Nazi exploded did

on the walls that they're looking at while they eat breakfast in the mornings. Right. Okay.

mornings. Right. Okay.

And this Vanassel works for Lheed and Howard Hughes comes to that same under, you know, underground layer, right, to to eat Miss Vanassel's pie.

Okay. Now, what was George Vanassel all about? What he tells us is that the

about? What he tells us is that the entities from Venus, the Nordics of course, revealed to him that

the human race comes from space. And

when they got here, they found these homminids, ape-like people. And in the first expedition they sent to Earth, it was only men. Very 1950s, you know, kind of view. You send the men first,

of view. You send the men first, establish the frontier and all this [ __ ] you know, set up set up the uh, you know, be the frontiers men. Um but

the problem is that when subsequent expeditions came together, you know, that had women and they were actually intending to settle on a large scale, they found that the men who had been

sent there as the forward explorers and and frontier settlers wound up mating with the females from among the homminid population and they had created these

hybrids. They were basically quasi

hybrids. They were basically quasi human.

And Vanessel says, well, these are the lower races.

The master race on the earth are simply humans in their original form that come from space and then there are all these other lower races that are product of hybridization with a local homminid population.

Now let's look at uh George Hunt Williamson. So George Hunt Williamson

Williamson. So George Hunt Williamson was um uh it was a pseudonym. The guy's

name was Mi Michelle or Mikuel Dbronovich and he was actually from Serbian royalty and this guy became George Adamsky's

handler. So he he basically he was

handler. So he he basically he was helping Adamsky edit all the stuff that Damsky published and he had had a precedence as an editor/handler

for a magazine called Valor which was the publication of William Dudley uh P and the American Silver

Shirts. These were fascists in the 1930s

Shirts. These were fascists in the 1930s and into the 40s who wanted us to make an alliance with Germany instead of going to war with Hitler. To such an extent that William Dudley Py was

eventually arrested and put in prison for basically collaboration with the enemy.

When he was in prison, he wrote a book called Star Guests. Star guests and it created this religion called Soulcraft.

And it's the same damn message as Vanasel.

The Nordic race came from space. They

found inferior uh homminided life forms here. They interbred with them. You

here. They interbred with them. You

know, it caused a fall in the level of human consciousness. We need to

human consciousness. We need to extricate oursel from this through eugenics, etc., etc. Same racialist ideology.

Then you look at George Adamsky himself.

Adamsky says that these beings who come from both Mars and and Venus and inhabit the whole solar system whatever he says oh they're far more enlightened than us

they have a form of society where the government religion and science are not at all distinct from each other and people are educated into the system from

childhood. How wonderful. Sounds like a

childhood. How wonderful. Sounds like a great society, right? The ultimate

totalitarian system that you could imagine. And of course they're all

imagine. And of course they're all Nordics.

And then last example I want to give Billy Meyer. Also not really his name. I

Billy Meyer. Also not really his name. I

mean his name was Edward Meyer.

He got the name Billy when he was working in Tehran. The guy was 007. He

was a James Bond style super spy field intelligence operative. Really working

intelligence operative. Really working primarily in the Middle East.

Billy Meyer.

Yeah. until he had an accident in Turkey in a bus accident. His arm was severed and then he moved on to this property in Switzerland where he became an older man

and he became the Billy Meyer that we associate with the contact phenomenon.

I didn't know that.

I dug up this and and have documented it all in closer encounters.

Wow.

So Edward Meyer Mhm. was working for somebody in the

Mhm. was working for somebody in the Middle East that gave him access to all of the Arab potentates. He met with all of the royalty in the Middle East. He

had access to the court of the Sha of Iran. In particular, he was very close

Iran. In particular, he was very close to the king of Jordan.

Billy Meyer.

Billy Meyer.

What?

And get this context for the audience. Billy Myers, a famous Swiss UFO researcher, ufologist who in the '9s started to just take these amazing like seemingly high

resolution photos of UFOs, attract all sorts of stuff. A lot of, you know, intelligence, I think, became attracted to what was going on with him. And then

he was sort of marginalized at the end of his he's still alive, but you know, speaking of the photos, Jacques Valet, because a lot of people have said, "Look, these photos are ridiculous. I

mean the, you know, they're way too high resolution. They're way too, some look

resolution. They're way too, some look like, you know, pots and pans, whatever held up.

Yeah.

But Jacqu Valet has looked at some of these photos.

Yeah.

And his comment was that at least the best of them.

Yeah.

He said, "Okay, they could be fake, but and I think that they were earlier than the '9s, some of these photos." He

said at the time when they were taken, I think they were 70 late 70s. In any

case, Valet's analysis, and remember, Jacqu Valet is living in Silicon Valley.

He has access to a lot of tech people. I

mean, he's a tech venture capitalist himself. He has access to a lot of

himself. He has access to a lot of people involved in also um special effects and optical stuff. He was he knew Spielberg personally and worked with him, right? And Valet's assessment

was that yeah, they could be fake, but he would have had needed access to ILM to fake these. And where did like some guy living on a farm in Switzerland have the capability to fake some of these?

Super sophisticated.

Exactly. Exactly. No, exactly. So, this

is where I'm going with this is that the people who were involved with Billy Meyer in the years where he was acting as a super spy working the Middle East say that he introduced these tall, very good-looking Nordic people to

the Arab leaders in the and they would have meetings with these Arab kings and so forth on policy and what they were supposed to do.

Now, few people know that Latin America was not the only area the Nazis were interested in after World War II.

The reason why the Arab countries have a black, white, and red color scheme is that they got it from the Nazis. And a

huge area that the Nazis were interested in was the Arab world.

Interesting.

After World War II, they embedded themselves deeply there. They were

building uh V2 rockets and the successor Scud missiles for Nasser and eventually for the Iraqis and so on so forth.

So now this is a complicated argument which you know it people have to actually dig into it in the book. I

build off of research by Joseph Farrell to suggest that there was an international post-war Nazi network some people call DBA the spider

and that Edward Meyer was an operative high level operative of this network.

So point being from Vanassel to George Hunt Williamson.

George Vanassel. George Hunt Williamson.

George Adamsky. But what is it with George by the way?

Why are they all you know what is that?

Yeah, it's interesting. Uh a whole other side interest of mine is um greater Iran and its history and you know uh you know it its cultural

anthropology and so on and so forth. And

in the Indo-Uropean languages, the word george gorga m means wolf.

And you know, at the end of World War II, the uh domestic resistance to the Allied occupation were called the werewolves.

That's right. The werewolves. They hide

out underground often.

So it's interesting these Georgees. And

you know, in the case of George Williamson, it was just an completely fake name. His name was Mikuel Danovic.

fake name. His name was Mikuel Danovic.

In any case, whether it's Van Tassel, George Adamsky, George Williamson, or Billy Meyer,

it's all the same very racialist Nordic hierarchical cast system kind of narrative.

And the question I have to ask is this that when you put now this is going on in the 50s, these contact e things start in the 50s and go through the 60s.

We know that the breakthrough in aerospace propulsion at Martin Aircraft and potentially others was also in the mid-50s where they were saying they can roll these things off an assembly line in 3 years. Right.

Mhm.

So if Epstein and company are trying to reverse engineer this technology or breed some kind of Nordics or whatever, they're very late to the game.

You see? So it makes me wonder it's a fly trap. It's a front for, you know,

fly trap. It's a front for, you know, funneling in scientists for something that is actually vital and has existed for years.

Quite possible. That's one definitely one interpretation. Is this a fly trap?

one interpretation. Is this a fly trap?

It's it's an entry gate.

It's a beacon.

Sure.

And then they're going to be funneled some just like the remote viewing program that we were told about the SRRI Stargate program was shut down in '95 was really actually like a a vestibule

for a darker deep black project that still exists. the one that you know Pat

still exists. the one that you know Pat Price uh was recruited into and killed over. So that's one possible

over. So that's one possible interpretation. There's another

interpretation. There's another interpretation which is that scummy as he is Jeffrey Epstein and more importantly Robert Maxwell and

his daughter Mhm. were part of a rebellion against

Mhm. were part of a rebellion against the system and they're trying to develop uh strategic competence and you know

something approaching parody with those who are actually running the breakaway civilization that they were fielding their own enterprise.

They've that's not the the vibe from all of them is that they're they're being used by some power structure above them would be my instinct.

know, but like just the back pattern.

I don't I don't have a a dog in the, you know, I, you know, I don't have a, you know, a pony in the race, you know.

Sure.

Uh, I don't know. But, uh,

but I'll tell you this that um the obsession with Atlantis is interesting in this regard because Atlantis is a rebellion against the

Olympian control system.

So from the standpoint of people who want to maintain a hierarchical cast society with the Davas or the Elohim or whatever at the top of it,

valorizing Atlantis doesn't make very much sense.

Mhm.

From that standpoint, to valorize Atlantis is satanic.

Yeah. You you'd want it to not Nobody be thinking about that was the huge mistake we made that we should never make again from that traditionalist hierarchical perennialist standpoint. Y

standpoint. Y so their obsession with Atlantis does suggest to me that maybe they saw themselves as being in competition.

And the other thing that suggests that to me is the fact that Jeffrey Epste is dead and Glenn Maxwell is in prison.

Mhm.

So that if these people were like low-level lower level operatives for the people actually running the show, why did they meet with such ends?

Well, I think they would because they, you know, a bunch of other powerful people want them dead.

Quite possible.

Yeah. including potentially the president of the United States.

Yeah, I think there are a whole host of really powerful people that wanted Epstein dead. Yeah.

Epstein dead. Yeah.

But um you also speaking of the Nazi connection, you kind of you've uncovered, you know, Whitley Strieber is this, you know, uh really famous contactee, maybe the archetypal contact in the 80s. He wrote Communion, of

course, and he describes kind of ongoing relationship with gay aliens. Just a

whole host of crazy stories. He was on my podcast talking about how he has a hybrid child and stuff.

Yeah, I watched it. Uh yeah. So there

you go. So

you told him that you wanted one of the chips. I don't want one of the chips.

chips. I don't want one of the chips.

What do you mean one of the chips?

When he was showing you his the chip in his ear.

I touched it.

You can touch it. You can't I don't think you touch it if you want to.

I feel like I can give you a CT scan of it if you want.

Was it weird if I touch it or is it okay?

No, it's fine. Doesn't matter. It might

be a little hot because it's been working right here. Uh

two three years ago if you had if you had told someone. Go ahead and touch it.

Don't be scared. Here. Here.

It's right under my finger now.

Oh my god.

Yeah, that is Can you Can you touch it?

I I'll I'll come touch you, but I want to finish this point because I feel like that's also normal tissue.

Yeah. No, no, I mean there's the CT scan a video of There's a video of the surgeon trying to remove it and the thing [ __ ] moving at its own like it's down into my earlo. Yeah.

And it just like goes down and I remember watching that. I guess it went under under, but that's the hard part.

But it disappeared again.

Mhm. Exactly.

It's actually moving now.

It went under. Uh,

it's on the run.

Well, it kind of depends cuz I could see it just bright as day and now it's uh I don't see it.

Am I going to have weird effects now that I No, not at all.

Yeah. You're like, "Yeah, cool, man. I I

want one of those. I don't want one of those.

I was messing around.

I don't want one of those.

I I don't actually want one." Yeah.

Yeah.

No, thank you.

No, same. I don't I don't And I don't want any weird contact either, you know.

Certainly not from those folks.

No, definitely not. So, what do you Because he you've talked about, you know, he had these childhood experiences, right, in like Mexico City.

Yeah. I mean, I'm not uncovering anything that he had didn't put in the public domain, but there are things he doesn't want to talk about.

That's true. So, I'll tell you what Whitley Streer doesn't want to talk about, although he's, you know, I'm basing it on statements he's publicly made, shows he's done, uh, over the years

going back 20 years. Mhm.

Uh he his father was involved with military intelligence and they're Texas Germans. So this is also relevant. Okay. The Shriber family

also relevant. Okay. The Shriber family are Texas Germans and there were a lot of Germans in the United States.

This is a long deep subject. I'm I can't go down that rabbit hole right now. But

long story short, there were a lot of Germans in the United States in the leadup to World War II who were sympathetic to the Nazis and who helped to fund the rise of the Nazis.

Yeah. There was a rumor Hitler wanted to buy a house in the Pacific Palisades cuz there's this brown shirt cult by this guy Eric Schmidt or whatever these all these sort of Nazi sympathizers.

They were all over and and they were definitely in Texas.

Yeah.

And uh so Strieber's father Yeah.

Absolutely. Uh Strieber's father was involved with military intelligence and they enlisted him. His parents

enlisted him at a like summer camp, summer camp at Randolph Air Force Base near their home in Texas where Strieber alleges that he was

subjected to various types of physical torture and mind control experiments and that he was at one point taken from the summer camp at Randolph Air Force Base,

which by the way, his experiences there, he said, you know, made him so ill that he was repeatedly like absent from school as a child during a couple of years. I when it was eight, seven,

years. I when it was eight, seven, eight, eight years old or something like that. And

that. And at one point he was taken from the place uh the the the base at Randolph Air Force um to a school for special

children in Baja California. This is

what he says. And he this is where he don't want to talk about where he says that they were taken to this place in Baja California which he then in his adulthood went and tried to find. He

drove around trying to find this mansion that they were taken to.

And he says they were shown these little children were shown absolutely horrific things there basically in some some kind of dungeon. And you know they were given

of dungeon. And you know they were given like chainsaws and various implements of violence and made to believe that they

were the ones who had carried out uh the horrific butchery that was displayed to them and all kinds of horrific sounds were played to them in the dark. And it

it basically it sounds like a precursor of MK Ultra but involving children. The

aim of which was to cause a fragmentation of the psyche and a kind of psychological dissociation that would make it possible for intelligence

operatives to control a part of someone's mind that was not normally accessible to them. you

know, to compartmentalize a person's psyche and gain control over a certain backstage persona that could be activated uh for whatever purpose. And the other

really disturbing thing in that context that Streber recounted is that and he left this out of communion and and out of the whole first series of books that

he wrote about his close encounters that when he encountered this gray like sitting on top of him like sitting a stride him in a bed of a guest room in

his cabin in the Catkills.

Mhm.

as he managed to take his eyes off of her and look around the room.

He's engaging in relations. This gray,

right? And he said it's he's never experienced anything more exciting in his life. Like, right. Yeah.

his life. Like, right. Yeah.

So, he's looking around the room, can finally like get his eyes off of being glued to this entity and he sees all these military and intelligence people standing around.

Whoa.

In the cabin.

Whoa.

He said, "I recognize one of them. He

was a guy I went to school with who later joined the CIA.

Wow.

And he was standing there together with like military people with like the brass. And

brass. And so clearly some of Whitley Shriber's experiences are the product of very advanced mind control program.

Right.

That's involved with the production of the UFO phenomenon or the management of the perception of it on some level.

Interesting. Well, it is interesting. He

told me on the podcast as well he met with James Jesus Engleton once. James

Jesus Engleton obviously Kennedy assassination.

Yeah. Oh, but ran counter intel for the CIA for you know 30 40 years and you know notorious Allan Dulles acolyte who would lie, cheat and steal and do all sorts of crazy crazy sort of, you

know, things. Um he says that he he he

know, things. Um he says that he he he asked Engleton if he could get recruited to the CIA and Engleton was like no not you like you you can't get recruited or something. So may maybe that is to your

something. So may maybe that is to your point that he was you know that's so dark like you know what what Angleton was really thinking is buddy you're already an agent and you don't even know it right you know

right oh man that's crazy it's crazy you can probably partition people or something oh that's certainly I mean that was what you know the manurion candidate aspect

of MK Ultra was about and they did that and you know I think probably Sarah Saron was an example of that I think so too because he didn't really remember what had happened and uh I

think he was at the Santa Ana race. He

was a he was a big racehorse junkie or whatever. And then now now you you talk

whatever. And then now now you you talk to RFK Jr. He'll say my dad was not shot by him. He was shot by or he was shot by

by him. He was shot by or he was shot by him but from the back he was also shot by Eugene Thne Caesar who was then a skunk work security guard and the whole thing was set up by Bob Mayhew who was

general counsel for Howard Hughes.

Howard Hughes also probably being involved in JFK's assassination. So it's

really this nuts kind of hidden.

Yeah. I mean just because Sarahhan Shan was a product of MK Ultra doesn't mean that he was the lone assassin. It might

mean he was meant to be a pathy in that operation.

Yeah, probably similar to you know Lee Harvey Oswald said I am a pathy and and it's interesting that yeah the ability to partition people. That's pretty

crazy. I mean there's a book called um the controllers by a guy named I think Martin Cannon and apparently John Alexander like threatened him when he wrote this book and it was about sending

these messengers these liaison in intelligence contexts and partitioning them because they couldn't even have access to the information that they were carrying.

Very interesting.

It is interesting.

But you see it doesn't really surprise me that that's possible because for a number of reasons. I mean first of all if you look at Nichzche's understanding

of the structure of the human psyche although he was a philosopher you know it was the early days of psychology with William James and so forth and really the emergence of psychology as a science from out of philosophy like all of the

previous sciences emerge from out of philosophy and so NZ sometimes would identify himself as a psychologist and he has this very interesting account

of how the human person is not really an individual. It's a conglomerate of sort

individual. It's a conglomerate of sort of battling perspectives and and waring drives. And these can aggregate in ways

drives. And these can aggregate in ways that like there's, you know, three or four different people who really have found a way to live together inside

somebody's head, right? Uh, and I believe that because of what I've seen in the course of researching

reincarnation and possession.

Right now, I'm doing a comprehensive study of the afterlife, death, and reincarnation and and possession phenomena and the problematization of the distinction between reincarnation and possession.

Um, I don't know when this is going to be released, but you know, at some at some point there'll be people watching this when the book is already out. I'm

going to call it Thanosis, a contraction of Thanos, death and nosis. Thanosis.

And in the course of this study of the afterlife, one thing I came across was that there are cases, you know, of course background, you know, Ian Stevenson, Dr. Ian Stevenson studied got

hundreds and hundreds of cases of children who spontaneously remembered past lives. Uh he did this work at the

past lives. Uh he did this work at the University of Virginia for decades from the 1960s through the 80s or something like that. And uh

so there's a tremendous treasure trove of empirical data substantiating reincarnation in terms of the work that he did.

And in particular, he's found cases that have interesting correlations between birth marks and birth defects on the one hand and death wounds on the other.

Anyway, if you take reincarnation seriously, as I think anyone should based on Stevenson's research, and then you know, you look more carefully at the data, you

see that there are some cases where a single person reincarnated as two or more individuals.

In other words, the psyche split in what Tibetans call the Bardau state and the transition between death and rebirth.

What was a singular person splits and is reincarnated as more than one individual.

Whoa. One case of this that's very prominent is Terry and Linda Jameson. Uh

they are these identical twins who are also psychics, but they report having been the same person before they were

separated at Earth, as they call it.

Um and then you find possession cases where it looks like several individuals or more are reincarnating in a single

physical body.

Okay. where um there have been Steven Browy the former chair philosophy department University Maryland Baltimore who then went on to become one of the presidents of the parasychological association and the he was also the

chief editor for the journal of scientific exploration for a while for the SSE um Steve Browy touched on these in his first book first person plural which

included a chapter about how uh there were cases of multiple personality disorder or what We call identity dissociative disorder these days

which are misdiagnosed cases of basically multiple people incarnating in a single person or multiple people possessing a single person. Some of them

from birth and then some of them coming in after birth. Stevenson also has cases that

birth. Stevenson also has cases that problematize the distinction between reincarnation and possession where let's say there'll be a child who will be deathly ill when he's 6 years old and then when he comes back you know to

physical health it's a completely different person with different memories. It's like the original kid

memories. It's like the original kid left did die left the body and somebody else came in and took over the body.

Right now more than one person can come in. Right? So here here's the thing is

in. Right? So here here's the thing is that what that suggests about the structure of personality epistemologically speaking is that

we are not necessarily the unique indivisible selfidentical individuals that we take ourselves to be. The psyche may have a

be. The psyche may have a an internally differentiated structure and it may be a conglomerate of different sub personalities that find

a modus vivendi with one another and sometimes they hold together crossing from one lifetime to the next and in other cases they break apart.

Yeah. And there probably is some way to systematically break that apart compartmentalize.

That's where I was going with that is MK Ultra. It's not all that surprising if

Ultra. It's not all that surprising if that's the way the psyche is structured anyway. Uh you know then it becomes more

anyway. Uh you know then it becomes more easily understandable how it could be weaponized. Well, it is interesting MK

weaponized. Well, it is interesting MK Ultra um you know all the parasychology research all the kind of electrogravitic propulsion stuff you're getting or even quantum communications which how put off

is working on via these you know uh vector and scalar potentials or whatever the subquantum field you're getting into modalities that if you were to dominate

the human race you would be able to employ all of these things at will. And

so if you look at like the last 70 years of scientific research or something, yeah, it's kind of scary. It's like we are verging. Maybe maybe it's the fallen

are verging. Maybe maybe it's the fallen angel thing, you know, where where we're we're rebelliously sort of acquiring these skills. Um or it's, you know,

these skills. Um or it's, you know, we're Yeah, I don't know. Maybe we're

it's, you know, you you hear these like UFO, you know, whistleblower people. It's

like Lou Alzando will be like, "We found the key and we're inside this cage and the gorilla sees that we have the key."

So, like it's this, you know, dark forest analogy, you know, spin-off thing that he's trying to say. And it's it's either that or it's like we're we're being inducted into some friendly thing.

I don't know. But it is it is interesting. We're accelerating towards

interesting. We're accelerating towards this new paradigm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And you know, the gorilla, you mentioned the gorilla.

Mhm.

Uh you know that whole test they do when they walk somebody in a gorilla suit through a group of people doing something and the majority of people who watch the film don't notice the guy in the gorilla suit. Yes. And then when they were

suit. Yes. And then when they were testing experimental aircraft, apparently uh they would give guerilla masks to these people flying prototypes

of the SR71 and the what do you call the the other one that that went down over Russia the U2 spot the U2. They give these gorilla masks

the U2. They give these gorilla masks and they say to them, if you ever get too close to a civilian airliner where the pilot can make eye contact with you, put on the gorilla mask before that.

Yeah. So that when they come back with a story about this weird looking aircraft, they'll report it was a gorilla flying it and no one will believe the story.

In the Annie Jacobson's Area 51 and that that book and I think we got we need to do like five more of these, but um Annie Jacobson's Area 51 starts with it tells

that story and it starts with the story of Bob Lazar. And I often wonder if the kind of true kind of hermeneutic reading of UFO disclosure is that there is some sort of co-sponsored, you know, program

between the Nordics, I don't know what they are, and us. And they exist at these sites like Area 51 because you you have these stories.

First of all, Area 51 was a Nevada test site before it became Area 51. Richard

Bissell set it up as Area 51 to test uh the U2 spy plane in 1955. But you had already had hundreds of atom. It was the site of the most atomic blasts in the

United States and UFOs constantly show up around, you know, nuclear weapons and and energy installations. And so you'd think that if you have that many atomic

blasts, you'd probably have created some sort of like portal or something. You

even have this misty echo patch around a test from 1988. And it looks like there's a portal underground. And that

would explain the Dan Barish story of S4 Area 51. It would explain some of the

Area 51. It would explain some of the Bob Lazar stuff. And it would explain this weird disconnect of like, do we really have craft that can fly like that and it's being employed by us? Well,

maybe it's kind of, you know, being co-run by us and them. And that's this sort of electromagnetic wormhole portal pit stop for them or something. I don't

know.

So, two things about that. Two things

about that. First of all, something really creepy about UFOs and nukes. Mhm.

Of course I devote you know good amount to this uh toward the beginning of Closer Encounters um that excellent book Hastings bookings UFOs and I cited you

know uh if not anything else Closer Encounters is a good encyclopedic like index of references for the whole uh UFO research field and Hastings is one of

the people who I site extensively in there. So but here's something about

there. So but here's something about UFOs and nukes that's really creepy.

I have a Substack piece on this. It's

called nuking the matrix on my Substack.

The first person to ever propose that we could be living inside a computer simulation was a Nazi computer scientist by the name of Conrad Zusa.

Mhm.

Conrad Zusa was the Alan Turing of the Nazis.

He developed the first modern digital computers before Turing did. So people

often give credit touring, but this guy was slightly ahead of Turing.

And Turing was playing catch-up with this guy. And this guy Conrad Zusa

this guy. And this guy Conrad Zusa wasn't just involved in mechanical engineering of computers. He was

extremely theoretical in his you know contemplation of what computation is.

And it occurred to him for the first time that what if the weirdness in quantum mechanics is uh indicating the fact that we're

living inside of what he called a calculating space. Rehender Ram, a

calculating space. Rehender Ram, a calculating space. And he said the

calculating space. And he said the anomalies in our physics at the fundamental level are indicative of the fact that we're inside a computational system.

And he theorized this whole thing uh during World War II. Um

and here here's the really creepy thing.

He theorized that it would be possible to test this in extremely high entropy events such as for example the detonation of a nuclear bomb.

Yes, that a nuclear bomb detonation is such a high entropy event that if you were observing the world on a quantum level

during such an explosion, you would be able to detect basically the mesh of the matrix. I agree that the only two ways

matrix. I agree that the only two ways out of the matrix are through consciousness and high energy physics.

And if you even look at quantum indeterminacy, you have quantum indeterminacy between position and momentum, but you also have it between level of energy and time. So if you get extremely high energy output, you get

time indeterminacy. And it explains

time indeterminacy. And it explains weird portals at CERN quote unquote stories around that. It explains high voltage experimentation of Tesla, Thomas Towns, and Brown. Both of them saying

really weird things happen at high voltages across short distances. Tesla

saying he saw the past, present, and future all in one and spoke to aliens, you know, and then you have nuclear blasts which seem to you again you get this sort of these weird time effects

and you see UFOs and this is a bunch of Q-clared guys who have literally no business lying about what they're seeing across all sorts of disperate sites across the

United States. You have 167 QC cleared

United States. You have 167 QC cleared employees saying that they see stuff in in Bob Hastings's book. And why is the only consistent thing that all of the

Nordics have ever said that we need to disarm of our, you know, we need to disarm and and relinquish our nuclear weapons, right? The these

Nordics, they they tell all kinds of different stories to different people.

The one through line is we need to uh relinquish our nuclear weapons.

That's how you get out of the Matrix. Ah

yeah see see people think they have these naive notions that oh they're worried about the ecology of the planet and they want to stop us from destroying ourselves folks you know there's evidence of

nuclear exchanges in vast antiquity I mean there's you know there's vitrification at various ancient sites where there's also anomalous engineering and as we discussed earlier Brandenberg saw evidence of nuclear war on Mars so

it's not like these entities are you know necessarily averse to the use of nuclear weapons on moral grounds I think what's going on here is that it's a way that would reveal that we're inside the

matrix and they don't want to maybe they know that and it's very badly warped their psychology having found that out and their response to it was to create this control system which at least gives

them a sense of a degree of power right it's like it's a very understandable human psychological response actually so you realize that oh [ __ ] I'm in I don't have control over my life I'm somebody else's play thing well I'm going to create something that I do have control

of well it's the it's the whole threebody problem where they are they're looking at the tip of the spear of human ingenuity generically speaking. But yes,

high volt high energy experimentation would be kind of this Archimedes lever that you would you would sort of look at.

I have this case in closer encounters um of a certain Sir Horsley. Sir Horsley

was a British wing commander who became the closest aid and personal atache of Queen Elizabeth I. And um at that time

when he was you know the personal aid of Queen Elizabeth as a military officer he was approached by these Nordics who basically uh invited him to a fireside

chat Miss Markhamm and Mr. Janice and they said listen we want you to come aboard come aboard we want you to come aboard with our plans and our project and we want you to help us disarm the

world of nuclear weapons beginning with your country United Kingdom. This was in the 1950s when the British were first developing nuclear weapons. And um he says that this Miss Markham like was a

completely expressionless person. He

said she looked like Lady Dracula and she was like this completely expressionless like icy white person.

And the only time she ever showed any emotion was when he came back at them with, "Well, wait a minute. If we disarm and the Soviets disarm,

then if it turns out that you folks are up to no good, we're rendered entirely defense defenseless in the face of you.

Our nuclear weapons are our only defense against you. And at that point, he says

against you. And at that point, he says she she like had a wicked smile on her face looking at him.

Like, well done, boy.

Whoa.

You know, you know, you've figured us out. And anyway, he went and reported

out. And anyway, he went and reported this back to the authorities. They

investigated these people. And it turned out their flats were empty by the time the authorities got there.

Wow.

Okay. Now, here's the really the most creepy thing about the story. The same

Sir Horsley 20 years later wound up controlling the British nuclear arsenal.

I think they knew that this guy was going to wind up in one of the most strategic positions regarding the British nuclear program and they deliberately engaged him having had

foreign knowledge of the the you know further trae likely trajectory of his life.

So crazy. Well, Jason Resa Georgiani this was a blast. I we could honestly go for another six hours or something.

Maybe we will in LA next time you're back in Los Angeles. Yeah, I would love that. I

Los Angeles. Yeah, I would love that. I

would love that. And um so the new book you're writing, what's the name of it?

Just the one on the afterlife is going to be called Thenosis.

Okay.

Yeah.

Thenis that's coming out.

And the book on UFOs is Closer Encounters.

Closer encounters. Substack. Jason Resa

Georgiani and um Prometheus and Atlas of course. Thank you, man.

course. Thank you, man.

Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure.

It was awesome.