All the Rivers with Dorit Rabinyan

good afternoon and thank you for joining us my name is Manny manchel I serve as Chief impact officer at the Jewish Federation for greater Washington and it's an honor to welcome you for our

third session at the Israel at 75 virtual book series co-sponsored by the Jewish Federation and moment magazine as part of federation's ongoing Israel of 75 initiative

Federation is proud to partner with Incredible institutions like moment as we mark this Milestone year of Israel's independence and offer our community

members thought-provoking experiences and ways to engage with Israel during these complex times today it's my great pleasure to introduce what will

undoubtedly be a rich thought-provoking conversation with a claimed author and the voice of important complex issues dorit rebellion

and focus on her work with on all the rivers in 2016 after 15 years of Silence ravinian published all the rivers also known as border life which became the

center of a political scandal in Israel the momentous novel sensitive in its details and enthralling in its Peaks was banned from use in high school

curriculum by Israel's Ministry of Education the book tells a crisscross Story by physical and emotional borderlines and courageously marks the

deceit in the separation between you and I between us and them all the rivers spent more than one year as number one bestseller in Israel and has been

translated in 17 languages will be led once again by Amy Schwartz moment Magazine's opinion and book editor as well as the editor of magazine

of the Magazine's popular ask the rabbis section before coming to moment and Amy was a long time editorial writer and op-ed columnist at the Washington Post

covering education science culture where she was named for Philips or prize and commentary please join me in welcoming Amy

welcome everybody and um thanks Manny and thanks everyone for turning out um and welcome dorit I'm so happy that

you're joining us today and so delighted to have the chance to talk to you about your beautiful novel all the rivers um dorit rubinyan is the best-selling

author of The acclaimed Persian brides and strand of a thousand pearls um she is the recipient of the attack of Enterprise the prime minister's prize

the acum award and the Jewish quarterly Wingate award well the rivers the book under discussion today was named as a book of the Year by heretz and was

awarded the prestigious Bernstein prize and that was before it became internationally famous um as as the result of a scandal that we will talk about um as Manny said all the rivers spent

more than a year as the number one bestseller in Israel and has been translated into 17 languages um besides all that this this book is a

wonderful read and I hope everyone many many people on the call have have already read it or are planning to do so um now

your book as I say it was well known anyway but it's um now best known for in a way that is I think well known to

American audiences it's most famous for being banned like so many recent recent books that have been shot to prominence um after being

um removed from a shelf or or or you know pulled from a school um in uh in 2017 um Israeli as you you um you told my

colleague Marilyn Cooper in um in an interview you did with moment in 2017 you woke up to a call from a journalist friend who said I have a terrible I have terrible news but it's great news for

you um and who proceeded to tell you that he had broken the story that the book had been proposed for the national curriculum but then had been blocked by the Ministry of Education on the grounds

that since it tells the story of a romance between an Israeli woman and a Palestinian man in New York City it would encourage such relationships in the minds of impressionable teenagers so

let's talk about the controversy but first let's talk about the book itself um so the book is a novel it's written as a novel with characters who aren't

you um the main character is named leot um but you've been very open about how it has roots in your own life and your own relationship of the very very much

like the one in the novel um but the main thing the main difference that strikes a reader is um leot in the novel is absolutely terrified of anyone at home finding out

that she's having this romance with this Palestinian man you know they Dodge Israelis in the city um she won't tell her parents and You by contrast ended up telling the whole

world your very personal story can you talk about the process you went through how you decided to tell the story and how much of the story to tell and how that all came about

hmm uh first let me thank you very much for having me thank you for many thank you Susan thank you Amy uh thanks everyone

who had joined us it's true that I was uh you know my

mission was to tell the love story between an Israeli Jewish woman who arrives in New York and meets this Palestinian

artist who has been uh trying to achieve this breakthrough in the art scene of New York being an

artist and the the thing is I use these two to say something more wide about

our Middle Eastern lives and our proximities and the fear of being so close

and being so influential one towards another and there is an ethos of isolation the Jews are

carrying in diastra and we're caring for 2 000 years being stateless that we import back to our

homeland when we re-established Israel so this ethos of

not getting mixed is the one I was so fascinated and intrigued by and I I find it to be so much in the core of the

Jewish identity I couldn't guess not in a million years not in my wildest dreams that this

argument that I might encourage a simulation that my book might be a danger and I quote because it's so

ironic a danger a dangerous read for the young readers in Israel would be used against me because that was my

theme so the greatest fear of my heroin of the main character the Israeli character who was molded by this Jewish ancient theory

of not getting devoured by the surrounding culture and and and religions that we used to live among is actually

being reflected within the relationship with the Palestinian young man that she falls is in love with and she carries this DNA this Zionist

education of not get mixed not get too intimate with this

other that back home is the enemy but in this spacious liberated uh all opportunities open uh ground of

New York City she's allowed to get close and to be exploring and to to learn about herself

via his experiences so I use this duet of the two to say something broader

about Homeland about this gap between the experience of being in Exile and and being at home being belonged and being

watching home from a distance and all the obvious experience of being born in Israel raised in Israel being in

Israeli all of a sudden throw my characters away from home was the most uh elegant efficient

and literary way I could watch me and observe and tell about what being in Israeli is I need to take this distance

to to say something very uh millimetric perhaps microscopic via this telescope right right an example that sort of has a bigger that has cast

a larger a larger shadow um well it's interesting you you put it that way because it sounds like you made artistic choices for to make liat behave

the way she does in the in the book was that also partly did you experience was that also true of you in this experience or did you sort of ADD

right is that something you experienced yourself the struggle to to get out of the that mindset characters in life and characters in books

they have a major difference I mean humans where is he going I mean we can we can over

lap difficulties and we can uh forgive ourselves much more easily but in order to cause cause this drama to create this

dramatic tense and and conflict which is the the heart of Storytelling I had to distance myself from the the Israeli character and make her much more

judgmental much more severely critical towards herself and more obedient more of being more um uh

giving much more care about right and wrong she's very respectful of her parents for instance she always calls on right on time you can be respectful for your

parents and at the same time be respectful for your desires but she is much more loyal to the fears that she

was inherited by the Israeli education well it's interesting because in in a way it sort of flips the script people I don't know maybe this is just an American Jewish thing but I I suspect

not people think that you know there's there's Prejudice about Jews or fear of Jews or you know hostility antipathy towards Jews from the Palestinian side

and in this in this novel it has a sort of this fairy tale quality it's really all on her side in a way I mean he's angry but he's so giving and open and

accepting of her from the first moment he sees a future and he's angry that she doesn't it's it I thought you were kind of flipping the script in a way for preconceptions

they're being shaped by stereotypes and fears and and stigmas and and we're filmi is an artist he's an intellectual

he's politically aware he's a he's a man she's a woman and herself she's she's more um

she's more pragmatic and he's more of a dreamer and another thing Muslims are much more welcoming to newcomers than us Jews we're very

exclusive and they are much more inclusive and and him himself as a

person he's more of uh a Believer you must have a believer in in a in a romance between two that between Romeo

and Juliet you have somebody to carry on the belief that it's possible because if they're both canceled the possibility it won't be happening

uh I I go back to the autobiographical um circumstances of writing this novel this level would have never been written

unless my partner in New York had lost his life so tragically I was I was living my life I wasn't expecting to be writing a novel about us

but I needed everyone to fall in love with him as much as I did I needed everyone to know what a beautiful coexistence we

experienced and what a beautiful conversation that were as much as they were loud and angry and I got furious

with how much she he wouldn't let go of this option of buying national state and I was as a person I'm

much more of a moderate uh uh believer I believe in in compromises um

and romantically I I reflected this on the two characters because in in falling in love and maintaining a romantic relationship you must have one of the

two schools one that believes in a by identity existence and the ones that believe in divisions and living next to each other

in Harmony and with great love but allowing independency to each of the entities that are combined and into each other but

um I I believe in the two-state solution and I believe in two entities uh romantic relationship that's so funny I hadn't appreciated till this moment that

the the characters political views about what should happen to Israel and Palestine actually mirror their views of what should happen to the to the two of them right he sees a future of them together and she doesn't see it she

thinks they can only be a part right was that was that your intent yeah I I I wanted to I I wasn't fearful of the fact that he

might be uh taken too much of uh you know like a dreamer like a John

Lennon you know uh let's let's have the the this experience this Zionist uh Palestinian uh

um Adventure towards a happy ending because he he himself my muse Hasan purani uh was very much like this

and since I I I wanted to portrayal his character I took on myself the job of being the

bad guy of everyone doubtful of being the one hesitative of being the one and and I believe that as Israelis

we have the privilege of being the more um because of being gained

with the Privileges with our freedoms with our liberties with our opportunities with our state being

in southern states for 75 years it's a big deal we were the triumphers of the war that took place 75 years ago and

since that we have the we're obliged and we have we're committed to be the one with more chances and one

of the chances that we must take is Give Peace a chance that's interesting the the book just to um to stay with the characters for another moment the book

is is the voice in the book is suffused with liat's regrets you know in retrospect anyway you know she she's she's quite certain of her course in the book that they must part but afterwards

she's gripped with these terrible regrets everything you know from the fact that she doesn't take those last few phone calls from him to the larger thing you know that she doesn't she

didn't wasn't able to be more giving is that is that something you felt too or and and was the was writing the book sort of a way to resolve that or is that

also something you just invented for her good hunch um as I said I wanted to maintain the conversation I wanted to have I wanted

to have him around and sometimes I really felt he was around when I was writing it because he had his opinions

and he wasn't and there were moments that I felt him present in my study because because he was invested in this novel and sometimes I

thought that the Scandal has to do with him pulling strings in heaven like he liked to do those uh because he

felt like a whole really ridiculous joke that took off control um you felt it was a joke on you the the Scandal the Scandal was it it didn't

feel at the beginning it wasn't felt as a joke it was felt more like a an attack because I was uh I wasn't sleeping for three months it

was it was it was uh it was very anxious I was intimidated I was haunted I the the minister of

Education back then was Natalie Bennett that nowadays when we're in such a mess due to uh Netanyahu I hear people from

my Camp from the peace Camp longing for Bennett to come back but um he was so much personally attacking me

and his disciples his followers were so much taking serious of his pointing out at me as if I'm the enemy of the nation

that I I experienced uh bullying but not only digitally [Applause] you describe in in you describe to my

colleague I think you've said in other uh coverage as well how this one group that's against you know interracial whatever Miss what you know what they used to call miscegenation

that that this uh this group was actually marching up and down outside your house these people chanting about you know how terrible it was to have these cross cultural relationships it

sounded like the worst nightmare of Leon in the novel you know that that the uh the the Israelis are actually demonstrating in public yelling at her about this relationship or you in this

case Amy I I I I I I I feel this uh shame that I want to share with you because I

feel so shameful of of the fact that the head of this

gang that was personally uh haunting me and terrorizing me is now

in the Israeli government who is that no kidding he was the person walking up and down his group

he's leader he's the leader of this right extra right wing um

I don't call them otherwise than gang yeah and and and and they are very violent and they have uh

uh I I I I I I I don't know how to phrase it otherwise I'm I'm shameful wow I I I we've been demonstrating for 16

weeks in the streets of Israel against this shift that our society had taken

and we're so so worried and I mean we we don't enjoy the same peaceful sleeps that we had before

November 4th 2002.

the past month were uh taking its toll for not only in a sense that the tomorrow is unknown the

present is is so fragile and and we and the most horrific nightmare of the the Jewish

Heritage which is Civil War citizens going on against another brothers and sisters siblings fighting

each other over ideology uh might God forbid from from this happening but I believe the ground of democracy

should be rethought due to this to this uh protest that I am part of you've been active in the in the protest you you were telling us before

if you're if you're if you are uh you believe in democracy you must be active and I'm active in the streets and I'm active online and I'm active among my

activists uh friends who are so courageous and so brave and I'm I'm giving them my support

and my voice and I'm I'm helping with whatever is needed because this is the time to to be to be part of

stopping this this change that might lead us to become something that I grew up in my Iranian family being so

knowledgeable about that a society can change overnight Iranian my Iranian

aunts and uncles were uh were um immigrating to Israel they didn't make Aliyah because they didn't want to become

Israelis they became Israelis just because they were stateless they liked being in Iran but after the revolution in 1979 they found

themselves moving to Israel and taking the Israeli citizenship upon

themselves but not willingly and I don't want to move elsewhere I don't have this extra passport in my drawer only the Israeli one

and I I love being in Israel I love Tel Aviv I belong here I love traveling to America but I love

going back home here um that was a big part of the character too that she she's had no interest in living in Exile with her Palestinian lover she had to get home

she re-acknowledges having home that's interesting do you re-evaluates the fact that she was born to

to this existence of the Jewish life in the Middle East under this sun

on this ground over watching this Mediterranean Sea having this experience is not taking for

granted after you experience the taste of Exile being elsewhere can be nice but for a while then you

come back home do you think I was going to ask you anyway about do you think that you're the Iranian background has um shaped has been a big part of shaping that that part of you I mean has do you

feel like you're part of a Mizrahi community of you know artistically or otherwise sure sure being part of the Missouri community is is is

it's not a choice it's the the the the the the the the the shade of the of the skin it's it's it's it's to begin with

and an identity that you carry uh physically and the next happening is the fact that that you're labeled due to that

and the the most recent one that is like 2017 years ago is the awareness the the Multicultural existence in

Israel should be more equal more welcoming more uh included and and the Iranian element

is is more it's more uh

personal in in a sense that is uh is a is a it's a kind of exactly existence it's a

kind of Israeli uh being like a sub a subgroup yes yeah a subgroup a subconscious a sub

um memory of a place I never uh and cannot travel to

that I had to imagine and I think it it it it goes hand by hand in hand in the fact that I became a Storyteller did I

that the place where my ancestors came from is a place that exists only in my mem on my imagination I can only guess it I can

only try to imagine it or follow their sorry no no go on no no to to

um to experience it via storytelling and to be to become the Storyteller

in Hebrew of their broken Persian or their broken Farsi and to to give this as a my early beginning my debut novel Persian Brides

was was absolutely that later on it had evolved but it's absolutely that that was actually my question is because your first novel is called in English it's

called Persian Brides right and it's about yeah it's it's using my grandma's memory uh mixed with tons and tons of

imagination wild imagination of uh 21 years old that that was me

uh exactly uh 29 years ago when I sat down to write it and I guess it it's uh

I I'm not so much of a fan of of describing literature as a channel or mystical experience but I believe

that the fact that I was enjoying all the Liberties of being born in Israel and being given the chances to

master the Hebrew I was somehow giving a voice to all the all my ancestors mothers or my the mother of my mother of my mother who

were muted their voice was was not heard and and I I somehow related to them

uh and and and needed to continue my own identity on their background

so I I believe I read that before this book before all the rivers was um proposed for the Israeli National High School curriculum the the thing

that led to the problem um three times three times the artistic the artistic Committee in the in the Ministry of Education had found this

book to be a extremely relevant important and fine enough to be included in the High School curriculum but then

came the ministrial uh committee which which is nominated by the current minister

and they wanted to please the master yes and they had to give arguments they had to State the reasons for why this

book should be excluded and I believe that the the commotion the whole controversy that was aroused in Israel

was due to the arguments that they they said this book might encourage a simulation and I believe that if the minister of Education was really an

educator a thinker a Jewish a teacher that follows the wisdom

of of of our ancestors he would have taken the chance to question this term assimilation under being

conduct conducting a Jewish life servant in sovereignty when we are the majority

when we control Our lives our destiny our jewishness is not no longer a minority you would have taken the chance of

asking what a simulation means in 2016 in Israel right but he didn't no he was a well well I mean I was thinking I'm thinking listening to you I mean and you

you also you talk about how your your book actually is trying to question this this deceitful idea of Us and Them

since then if anything Us and Them has become even more I mean it's become the the way so many more people seem to live it's only it's only uh what that's that's

eight years ago nine seven years ago now um do you see are you pessimistic when you see all

this I mean there's so much more us and them out there now than even there was then so true Amy did you see any way well let's let's

look at it let's rather than depress each other let's let's flip it around um one of the I mean all those teachers wanted to teach your book um what did they see in it what's the

what what what is it in your book that can that can help this that can you know how do you how do you feel as if the book speaks to teenagers for instance

you know young high schoolers it's humanistic it's generous

both humans and and I I betrayal the Palestinian characters with the most uh respect that I

betrayal Israeli woman I I don't I don't give any one of them a better um Street

and in fact the letters that I receive from readers the Palestinian diaspora are uh uh readership

is is it corresponds with me digitally and Via letters that I receive and I I get to be blessed

and I get to be Cur encouraged by them because they say you you that they thank me for

describing this young Palestinian uh so um coherently and and

uh loyally and and and and and somebody one of them wrote uh I know that the ten fingers that

wrote this novel is Jewish is Zionist yet it's fair that's that's the greatest compliment that author can receive that's very

interesting you you must be are you getting a lot of um you have a lot of international Readers now that maybe you wouldn't have had if the book hadn't been banned is that right

Bantam curriculum we're still democracy it was available on bookshelves in in bookstores and libraries and I got support from

Headmasters and teachers and and and so many of the Israeli liberals among them are my big brothers my my teachers

Amazon uh may he uh recently we we lost male chalev one of Israel's prominent authors who was a very dear to me was very much

of a friend and and may he uh David Grossman they were all supporting

me if they weren't there to to bodyguard my book and my writing and myself uh I wouldn't have gone through this

Scandal uh so uh so so I mean it it wasn't at ease but it was in in one piece so I know you wanted

to say something about mayor chalev at the outset and I I forgot to leave you the opening why don't you do you want to do that now and then we'll go back I have one or two more questions and and then then we'll open it up just just

just just just just shortly say that that Mayo was uh the most uh he he could he could write about sentiments without being

sentimental and his Hebrew was superb and he was so funny in his writing and if you haven't

got the chance to look into one of his translated book to English please do and and and he was also a great friend some somebody

that that made me laugh very very easily and we we shared the funny moments in Book Fairs and traveling uh to to

literary festivals around the world and he was a great companion among all the other things that he was I um that's that's it's nice it's nice too thank you thank you for for saying

that for for a moment readers we I've I I greatly Concur and we have a little a little piece about him that ran in a moment newsletter um about uh I'm a particular fan of that

book he wrote about his grandmother and the vacuum cleaner heard okay were we the same agent and I heard from my agent that

that the American readership is a bit much bigger fan of that novel than here in Israel in Israel when they mentioned these greatest novels the one

about the grandman and the vacuum cleaner wasn't mentioned so often as I hear American leaders are mentioning this book but um

and also should have teachers we we don't come to write novels books stories unless we

read them and and I I feel like I'm I'm an offspring of mail uh as much as I am

with Grossman and and and and and and Yeshua and Oz and

and but but I really I really I I really uh it it it it's a time of of Shifting generations and and I would

like to stay the Young author at least for more more decades than than possible

well it's a good segue a good segue to another question which is is there are you working on something now yes I am about hopefully to to hand the

manuscript to my my my editor uh uh who is again the same manager as Maisha lives and um

I received an email on Sunday saying what's up um but I I I'm not yet ready to let go of

it I it really it needs a little bit more uh the problem with books that they don't change they stay the same as they

were and and if there's a chance to perfect them a little bit more I take the time I I don't uh I don't give a damn are you is is it is it some do you feel

like you can tell us anything about this novel or or are you superstitious it's not Superstition it's uh it's it's our greatest

uh author who had said that the satisfaction you receive by telling about the books that you write nowadays might dismiss the

appetite that you need to desire the writing so I I better listen to to to this uh

spiritual Rabbi this literary Rabbi and follow his advice and when time comes I I I hope you'd find the subject to be

intriguing oh good well that's good that just wets our appetite a little bit he's just wanting more right so I'm not teasing I'm I'm just saying no I'm just

saying that that it's something that I read that Hemingway had said as well and uh and uh

oh we were born at the same day and I'm such a big admirer of him ah Faulkner oh fuckner

you share a birthday with with Faulkner I I am I am proud to say that we will both uh

born September 25th oh very good that's yes the Omens are good well let me let me use that I'm gonna I have another I have another question for you about uh

politics but first I want to ask you a purely literary question and that is I noticed in the coverage that in the

early coverage your book is described in English as having the title borderline um is which I guess is closer to the Hebrew um how did it to be can you talk about

the title a little bit why is it called that and how did you come to change the title to all the rivers and at what point did did you do that see it's technical it's not political no

no it might be it might be tedious but it's also to do with the American politics because when when the book was about to be

published my editor at random house uh um was worried that the immediate translation of Border

life which is actually a version of Godel Chaya which in Hebrew means a hedge but

but it has a poetic resonance to it it has a like an echo of a borderline that is alive offense a fence that has a Life Zone

that has a biography that has uh an outline that can be can be that can be redrawn

um he was he was worried that it might anchor to the American readership with the wall that Trump was talking about

Between the States and Mexico oh of course that's very interesting yeah that makes sense so he said come up with another name and

we were contemplating and contemplating and and another theme in the book is the sea the Mediterranean Sea and there's a

beautiful uh poet poem by a poet named avocon who who recalls the quote

from the Bible about all the rivers are floating to the same sea and you added that so in the American Edition that's actually in the epigraph right so that was for the American

Edition yeah in in other languages if somebody has good Connections in

Wikipedia this book has already passed the 30th translation and I'm most proud of the recent one

it's too Arabic really it took a while yeah very interesting yes and and it's nice to have a readership in in the

Scandinavians and in Asia I mean a South uh uh no in in various countries and and cultures

and languages but here having the book translated to Arabic it's a gift yeah that I can I can carry on to my to

Hassan's family and it was it to my to my uh partner's family and it was meaningful for them oh that's right to see to see his dedication in in Arabic I

wonder if you'll have um controversies in various Arabic Arabic speaking countries that mirror the one in Israel from the others Bring It On bring it on Wow

although as we said before we can laugh about it nowadays but it's it's it's it it was it was it was one of the reasons

that it made me so so so uh sad that this was the very first time ever that the book was banned by

the by the by the Ministry of Education in Israel or any book banned anywhere in Israel really and yeah it never happened and it I I hope it will never happen

again and and this historical moment I had to carry on and everywhere I went around the globe I I I became like the the presenter of the Israeli democracy

is saying no no no no it was only from from high schools it was we we're sure democracy we're proud democracy free speech and free thought and free

expression it's the the air that that we've read is the the water that us fish Israel if you're swimming and in

contrary of of being attacked I was defending what I call the Israeli life interesting well maybe you have some words of wisdom or or um

uh cheering you know words of a cheerleading words for the there are many many authors of the United States lately whose books are being again it's not Banning exactly but you know whose

books are being challenged pulled from library shelves in various States it's become a it's almost a game with certain kinds of politicians to show they can be

tougher on books with certain themes I mean do you what what do you what do you what's your advice for authors from that situation politicians like all

us humans uh are doomed to be bygones and and and books are eternal ah that's nice I like

that yeah does that make sense um so uh I'm gonna I'm gonna let two people um

uh so um one person wants to know um what the title is of the Arabic translation you know oh great great

question thank you so much for that because Arabic and polish are the two the two languages that

carried on the original title because the Hedge in Arabic is the same

it's the same thing and if you want to hear the Polish I know it too it's jevopot because no I don't speak Bollywood but I have a

good uh readership in Poland and I go back and forth and I learned it because I heard it so so often that's great do you want to I mean if you would go back for a moment and

unpack as the literary people say the the symbol of the living hedge I mean what's the what can you talk about the imagery there why why is that the why is that the title

image I mean why why that and not the C you know since you talked about the C I mean what's the talk about the living the Border that's living is that the you

know is it because we're we're our our existence here in the Middle East is the borders are not agreed

so the outline of your identity after 2000 years of being stateless now that the state is there's no peace where

you begin and where you end that it uh manifests itself this fact that us and our neighbors we we don't have uh

agreed separation or or uh agreement of of

where we stand and where they do uh of course in the occupation should be mentioned because we can go go through a

discussion over this book without mentioning the occupation that was um but this this is a there's a beautiful saying by Benjamin Franklin that

mentions uh that you should love your neighbor but you should you shouldn't take off the Hedge

good fences make good neighbors exactly that number seven Robert Frost no I I was referring to to Franklin saying that the Hedge

is helpful to keep the love towards your neighbor and the one about the one by Frost is the one that that the higher the the the

the the the the the good fences make good neighbors but the love the love for the other requires

uh a contour of your identity like a permeable barrier is that what you're thinking not a boundary but like a

living flexible so yeah not not a barrier in a sense of uh obstacle but a barrier and a

sense of uh outline yeah so do you have a do you have a political vision for the um for for the for the occupation for the

for the end of it I mean I don't want to put you on the spot and and it's not no no I'm on the spot I mean you sort of put yourself in the spot over the years but I'll just I'll just take a step back

I mean it's interesting that the political issues behind the story in your book are not really the same as the political issues that have Israelis on the streets right now

it's a whole it's a different they're sort of separate in people's minds so so do you see I mean do you see any hope for borders to be dissolved as you as

you talk about you know for these borders to become less less harsh I'm not optimistic no uh

uh the reason the book was banned from curriculum wasn't the fact that it's dangerous to the Jewish identity it was because

religion had taken the place of humanism in Israel in the past two decades and

and youngsters who were born in this new Millennial Millennium have

never experienced what we in growing up and becoming adults in the 90s we had tasted

aspiration for peace and aspiration for something that Rabin was heading towards and and leading uh being

a true leader another a politician that is much more eager to say in power than to make his people's uh Destiny

more peaceful and and more stable and the fact that that religion here is is different than in America this is why

I love having the Jewish holidays in America because it's so generous and so much fun and having a Yom Kippur and a

synagogue in in in in in New York was Joy you know I was fasting but I was laughing it was okay it was okay to have

both to hear the prayer to hear the singing to sit together females and males and to tell stories

it was such a revelation such an opposite experience of what I know from synagogues in Israel that are so hard

no everything is so severe and there's a competition who is more Orthodox than the other and and it's as if extreme

being being more extreme makes you more a better Jew no we need more compromising more inclusive more forgiving more

human well let's see so so um so I don't want to I don't want to end on too too negative a note about Israel I also don't want I just just to go back

for a second I don't want you to think that America has all the joy and and and lack of religious issues so actually someone on the on the chat one of the questions wanted to know if you had

meant to say something further about Faulkner about you know with whom you share a birthday whether whether he's someone too I mean talk about the dark

side of you know American life I love him I I I I one of

the most read book of mine uh growing becoming an author of uh in general I love I love American literature I I am

influenced by American literature perhaps as much as I am I by the the the American Media films and TV uh but like

in August had really affected me in in a way that I cherish I I when when I was writing the eulogy for

me and she lived last week at I said that that what really in was interesting for male was what happens to the spirit after the last page and the fact that there are

characters that you read in books that they become part of you and when you come across

uh points in life they they Echo and they ring and bells from from uh the rage and the Fury

and and uh especially like in August was are are carried Within Me and this is uh

uh a privileged given to us by translators unless we had translators Transforming Our storytelling from

Hebrew to other languages and vice versa the the treasury of literature of the world brought to us in Hebrew uh we would be doomed to be a province as we

are but intellectually all of us you know yeah not just not just

we can enjoy fruits of Minds great minds from overseas that's right well well first first of all I just have to say the idea of Faulkner in Hebrew is just

making my head explode I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to try to translate Falconer into Hebrew I'm just glad that some brave soul was able to do it um but let me just say since we're

wrapping up that um that gift that you're talking about is I I mean I think we all want to thank you for that very gift you've you've for for um for the character you know for for me

that you know the character that you you wanted to make him live on and I think for all of for the for the reader that's that's so that's so true and if liat is not entirely you then it's it's it's a

great it's a great pleasure to learn more about you know that side of her and what happened to her after this I I was I was uh writing to novel I was sure

that if it was me to be gone then it was him to write the book because because I felt responsible I felt responsible

being a Storyteller and being the last to be close to him and and New York was

was uh was a great background to realize how much uh home far away from home yet

having your home is uh and and and and to to to share this this gift of being raised in Freedom and

with your human rights and with having your dreams come true easily as we guys as as guys we have we have been in Israel

and I hope my friends in uh in the West Bank and in Gaza to enjoy as much well thank you so so much that's a lovely note to end on and um I'll turn

it back over to Manny but I just want to thank you it's been such a joy to talk with you and uh good luck with the new novel and and everything thank you so much Amy it was a pleasure

for me and it's the first of many I promise you I have a good feeling about it we certainly look forward to it really want to thank you both Amy and

dorit what a fascinating conversation and really bringing us into your personal account I want to thank all of our listeners today our viewers

um so we just thought at the end about um the fifth chapter of a vote in Jewish tradition according to the labor is the reward

um and there's no question that your story your profound story is one that speaks to many layers in today's landscape in Israel and among Israelis

and the way that it relates not just historically and within normative use but enable enables those of us not on the ground to better understand the many

nuances and social tensions that come with as you said Middle Eastern life um really appreciate your thoughtful facilitation Amy

um and all the excitement that you brought I I felt it I I shared it um and I'm covering so many elements of direct uh of what you wrote about I hope

you all enjoyed it enjoyed today as much as I did and uh we'll all be looking out for your next publication Dory um and just want to mention that this is

Again part of our virtual book series we have Israel 75 programs all throughout the community um Wednesday May 17th we'll have our next session in the Israel book series

with Alana kershan uh her acclaims book if all the Seas were Inc be on the lookout for registration uh links I think one's been posted already and just

want to encourage you to engage as much as possible for all these amazing opportunities to engage with Israel Israel at 75 all across town thank you

for joining us and we'll see you soon yeah you're here to me foreign