ALLYSON & WES FELIX on Fighting Nike, Motherhood, and Making History Again | IMO

I started to hide my pregnancy, and so I would train while it was dark.

I wanted to be a mother so badly. I wanted all the

badly. I wanted all the baby shower, the bump pictures, and my experience was just lonely, isolating.

I barely ever left the house.

When I did, I was in big baggy clothing, and we were doing this because even when they offered the 70% less, it wasn't on paper.

And so there was the basis of them low ball balling you. I think it was really, you

you. I think it was really, you know, I was older.

You were getting older and they didn't think you could do it.

Yeah right.

And I think they didn't think that they had to pay me to do it.

This episode is brought to you by Ships.

Craig.

Michelle.

What's going on?

It's Craig, Craig and Michelle.

Michelle and Craig, how about Michelle and Craig?

Did we go over that?

No, I think I think it Michelle and Craig sounds better, but we grew up hearing Craig and Michelle.

That's right.

I think Michelle and Greg sounds better.

You like that?

But I'm excited about our show today because when we started talking about doing IMO and over the first season things the show is becoming what it's gonna be, right? And it's beautiful.

right? And it's beautiful.

I love how we're kind of unwinding what it is organically.

But We talked about wanting to really get more siblings.

Siblings, like situations that we can contrast and compare with our upbringing.

Especially siblings who work together.

Mm-hmm.

And we did that with Regina and Raina. We've got a couple of people

Raina. We've got a couple of people in, but this pair, everybody will know who the sister of the team is, duo is, I've been a fan of hers for a long time.

But we've got brother, sister here.

You wanna do the introduction?

I do.

We have Alison and Wes Felix.

So I am excited because this is my first time meeting them.

Not my first seeing them, but my first meeting them.

So, I will start with Alison's bio.

Alison Felix is the most decorated American track and field Olympian in history, earning 31 global medals across the Olympics and world championships.

31!

That's a lot of running.

That's a lot of medals, and a lot of winning, and lot of.

Uh, placing and competing along with multiple world records at her fifth Olympic Games in Tokyo, 2020.

She wore spikes from her own brand Seish making her the first track and field athlete to complete, to compete in her own footwear.

So we're going to talk about that.

And now Wes has a distinguished athletic and leadership background as well.

At USC, he was an all-American and captain of USC's track team.

So I can't wait to talk to them about, I mean, we were close in college, but it wasn't like you were playing ball or anything.

Yeah, right. That's right.

And then West founded Evolve Management.

Agency, shaping the brands of top female athletes, including his sister, Allison Felix.

In 2021, he co-founded Sage, a women's specific performance footwear brand.

And in 2024, Always Alpha, the first talent management firm dedicated entirely to women's sports.

Amen.

So.

So we got so much to talk about.

We have so much to talk about and we can't wait.

So why don't you guys come on out?

Allison Felix, welcome to IMO.

Oh Thank you.

Welcome, man. Thank you, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

See you.

Have a seat, get all settled in.

You're right.

I got it ready.

You don't have to.

Well, you guys, welcome, welcome.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. You're looking

great.

Big brother, little sister.

I love it.

Yeah yeah.

I feel like her maturity has maybe surpassed mine now that she's a mom.

Yeah, but he was a dad first, but I still think my maturity surpasses him.

Well, I think that's a gender thing.

I think it's a gender thing, and Misha's maturity level surpassed me when she was six.

So at least she held out for a little bit. She was bossing me around at six years old.

So, so growing up, how did you, when did the competition start?

Like, did you guys play, like we played everything together because she was my first playmate.

So whether it was sports or games, board games, cards, when that that started for you and me early.

The minute you could get me to do stuff and the minute I was old enough for him to beat me at something, he would be like, let's play this game that I've been practicing for two years.

I like your style, I'm right there with you.

Yeah, it was the same for us.

Really early on, I feel like our family is just competitive.

So that was, you know, that was the dynamic always.

And then I was just the tag along. You know, whatever Wes was

along. You know, whatever Wes was doing, I was trying to keep up.

And so if he was playing with the boys in the neighborhood and they were playing basketball, I wasn't too far along.

But he never let me win in anything.

And I also didn't...

I was always Wes's little sister, like I didn't have a name.

So he was doing well.

And when I came along, you know, that kind of was the thing.

And so I felt like I was trying to kind of keep up with you.

Yeah. It was interesting as you guys were doing the open and you were saying, is it Michelle and Craig or is it Craig and Michelle?

And it's interesting for us just when it switched.

Yeah. You know, it was always Wes and Allison and it was this is Allison or Wes's little sister.

Wes's Little Sister, yeah.

And then all of a sudden, high school, it like turned.

Like Alison and Wes and it was that's Alison's brother and it's been that way ever since.

We had the same, ours was a little later when she, when she became iconic as the first lady.

And it's like I became, I became Michelle Obama's brother.

And I was more than happy to be that, you know, because she had been Craig Robinson's little sister for so long. And it was,

long. And it was, it was irritating at times, but you got to meet some Well, I probably like you Allison.

I adored my big brother.

I mean, there was never a feeling of competition.

We'd compete, but you know, if he got something new, I was excited for him, you know.

So tell us about your parents because we miss our so much.

Tell us how they influenced the people you became.

Yeah, so our dad is a pastor.

So, yeah, we grew up as PKs, and our mom was a pastor too.

Oh, is that a thing?

PK?

That's because you don't go to church.

That is the truth, I wouldn't- Yeah.

And our mom was elementary school teacher. She taught third

school teacher. She taught third grade. And so, yeah,

grade. And so, yeah, they were very much people of service and invested in people.

And we always grew up hearing, your parents are so amazing.

They've done so much for us. And for us, I think they're

us. And for us, I think they're really great examples of what hard work looked like and what passion looked like and really gave us a beautiful upbringing.

Yeah, I think I, I always think of, you know, the, especially our dad, his, his dad passed away when he was eight.

So he had such a different life than we did, but he, where he grew up, it was two streets over from where we grew up.

So literally exact same neighborhood, you know, just two streets over.

That's similar to us.

Yeah, we grew up in the community that our parents grew up.

Yeah, same thing.

And then his dad passed when he was eight. So then they had to leave

eight. So then they had to leave that neighborhood and they had to go out, just kind of into LA.

And, um, and so to get to experience what it was like to have both parents there and alive. And, you know,

alive. And, you know, I think we got to experience things that, that for him were his like hopes for us, but also he was so protective because I think he knew how fragile.

All of it was.

And for us growing up in LA in the 80s, 90s, like it was, it was like a war zone.

There And, you know, we lived in this beautiful little pocket.

Mm-hmm.

This gated little pocket, but it was still right in the middle of all of it.

Well, that's all black neighborhoods.

If you grow up in a, I don't care what socioeconomic, at least when we were coming up, black folks all live together.

So there might be a block or two or four, but you were surrounded by all of the black community, which I thought was a beautiful way for us to grow up, you know, because you were never too far.

You never could get too big for yourself. You couldn't.

yourself. You couldn't.

And I know growing up in our neighborhood, being kids that studied and spoke proper English, you know, you were living two lives.

You know, you had to get to school, you know clear and know how to act with your neighborhood friends, right? And then come back

right? And then come back home and straighten up and use the right English.

It was almost like, you it was a complete code switching.

But I treasured that experience.

I'm so glad we grew up.

With that, both of you, and we'll talk about sports, but what's very clear in your career, Allison, is that you have a very high bar for yourself period.

And you put so much pressure on yourself.

I wanna know, and Wes, you're probably the same way, but I'm just wondering where does that come from? Because...

come from? Because...

Your parents, you know, they're like, you succeeded when you graduated, right?

Good people.

Not in a gang.

You know, the bar becomes, I wouldn't say low, but I know our parents, they didn't put pressure on us to be anything other than good people in the world.

You know? There wasn't like, You're going to be an Olympic athlete.

You're gonna be president.

You know, it was just like, so where does that...

Pressure for you guys come from? Yeah, it definitely, yeah,

from? Yeah, it definitely, yeah, didn't come from our parents.

And it's really interesting because they had no athletic dreams for us.

So for me, it really, it just felt like who I was. It felt very natural

I was. It felt very natural to have these high expectations.

But I think I did see my parents work so hard at what they were doing.

And so when I did find something that I was passionate about, I wanted to bring that same energy to it. And so I

it. And so I think that's what it was.

I wanted it to do it the best that I could.

And that always looked like setting a goal. And then if I achieved

a goal. And then if I achieved it, then okay, there's another one and there's another one, and it just kind of kept going.

But it was really kind of internal for me that I kept pushing.

You started with, or you play basketball where did the running come in?

Because what I found with most basketball players, running is a punishment.

So you don't like to do it and then you have, you, so you went from basketball to running and, and I know you followed him with the running.

But where did they running come?

For me, it was really just around school and like making friends.

But Wes was at a different school.

And so he was already running and he was all ready doing well.

And so it was kind of a natural next step for me to try.

I was playing basketball, but still hadn't made the friends that I needed. I didn't find my group.

needed. I didn't find my group.

And then that's really for me how...

me how...

And that was the same, our dad was, we were out in new school and he was like, sports are a great way to meet people.

Just trying to, trying to meet, people just trying to make friends.

Stumbled into it.

Yeah. And then I think.

You know, and it, you know, that's yeah.

Yeah, it did out, it, it...

It did out.

Then we fell in love with it.

Yeah.

And I think it was a huge part of our bond too, was like, it was like the family business.

So what was it like, Alison, going to the Olympics at 18?

Mmm.

Do you remember that?

Is that still?

Yeah, I mean, yes, very fresh.

It was, everything was new for me because I had only really seriously joined the track team at my high school a little over four years before.

And so everything happened so quickly. And so for me,

quickly. And so for me, it was like the, you know, the biggest competition that I've raced in. It was away from home.

in. It was away from home.

It was all the things. I didn't grow up wanting to

things. I didn't grow up wanting to be an Olympian. So.

It was something, you know, that I found much later.

So I was really everything that they had to offer. I was doing walking and opening ceremonies, trading pins, living in the Olympic Village.

It was just so exciting.

But when it came to the competition, I was still very much so that competitive, you know athlete.

And so I ended up getting a silver medal.

Oh, we saw the documentary.

But I was Not happy.

But just in terms of context because you know everybody should know you but we are we want to make sure that every listener understands because You you you were the one of the youngest Olympians to run in your meet to make that jump that quickly.

Yeah And I want to hear a bit about that that experience because people didn't think they thought you were going after the Olympics too soon.

Yeah. You were a phenom too. So there was all this

too. So there was all this attention. Yeah.

attention. Yeah.

Can you talk a bit about that, the journey to the Olympics?

Yeah. Sorry.

Metta feels like failure.

Yeah, it did.

I was, I had done really well in high school.

And so...

Do it justice, do it justice.

Wes, just jump in because she's not going to do it. I'm just going to set the stage.

That's why Big Brother's here.

So, Allison was state champion in California, which is a huge track state.

Right.

When was your first state championship?

Sophomore year? My sophomore year, yeah. So sophomore year was her

yeah. So sophomore year was her first state Championship, which just doesn't, that's insanely rare in California.

And then she's on the cover of Sports Illustrated by the time she's 17 as a track athlete, which again, that doesn't just happen.

When it was her senior year, she went to Mexico City.

She went to a private school and she had a coach.

Who was like so dedicated.

I think like it's such an amazing part of your story.

Just the way that your coach like believed in you and wanted you to have all the opportunities.

But he said, hey, there's this pro meet you can go compete in.

We should go down there.

It's in Mexico City.

They asked you to come, they're gonna pay, you know.

And so our parents go down there and she runs in this meet against.

Women who this is their job.

This is how they put food on the table. This isn't fun anymore.

table. This isn't fun anymore.

This is their jobs.

And she goes down there.

They're not going back, going to the prom.

No no.

She goes down there and she runs and she beats an entire field of professionals.

Not takes third and beats most of the pros. She beats all of the pro's.

And she runs the fastest time in the world for any woman that year and then decided that she wanted to go pro.

And so she became the first high school athlete to go directly pro.

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What made you decide to go pro?

What...

It was a really big decision because, yeah, that wasn't happening in track and field.

And the biggest factor was that the Olympic Games were going to be the next year and Wes was already at USC. And so I had this

USC. And so I had this front row seat watching him compete and seeing what it actually looked like.

And he had, you know, it was all about the NCAAs.

And so he was all the point system and so he would have a lot of events.

And, you know, if you wanted to do well at the Olympics, that was fine.

But that was not going to be the primary goal.

And so in really getting to talk to him and his experience, it was like, if I really wanted to take it seriously to try to make the Olympic team, my best bet was going to able to just solely focus on that and not run for the team.

And I know, you know, I would have wanted to be a team player and have done all the things.

And so that was really what it came down to was, could I...

Focus solely on trying to make the Olympic team.

And it was a decision that was really criticized a lot.

And of course we didn't have social media like we have now.

But, you know, I heard it and it was, it was really hard, but I, my family, you know, they supported me.

And, and yeah, I think I made the right decision for what my goals were.

I still had feelings of missing out on the true college experience and, you know, being on the team and all of those things.

But I, yeah, I, I went for, you know, I went for trying to make the team.

Do you, n- Remember the first time you said to yourself, I want to be an Olympian.

It was really late.

It was probably around the time, a little bit before that race in Mexico City.

Because for me, I had always looked at it as like, this is going to be college, you know?

This is my ticket to college and to get it paid for.

And so I always had that mindset.

And also because we found it late, I don't think I really knew it was like a career path.

It's like you didn't run, you ran in a neighborhood.

Yeah, you compete in school.

And it's just so different than like the NBA or the NFL where you're hearing these contracts and all this stuff.

I didn't know it.

We knew no one who was...

I didn't know, we knew no one who was a professional track athlete.

And so I think it was just, you know, even the possibility.

And then, you, know, once I had done really well and I started to like look and see, oh, you there are these people who, you who do this for a living. It's like, oh, wow, that

a living. It's like, oh, wow, that sounds amazing.

So not too long after that race, it was like, OK, I this is what I want to do.

Win. I really wanna take it all the way. Well, speaking of kids just

the way. Well, speaking of kids just doing stuff, so you start.

Managing Allison.

I just, how, you know, because you, how were you when you started managing?

I was young, I think I was like 24, maybe 25.

Soon.

How did the, what was the conversation?

It's so funny because I was kind of at this place in my career where I was looking for new management.

I was going to a new sponsor and so there was a lot of change happening.

And I never felt like I had really been, got the sponsors and the deals that I should have.

And so I was really on the hunt for that. And Wes was also

that. And Wes was also in this moment in his career at a, transition as well. He had a liver virus

well. He had a liver virus where it was clear that he was not going to be able to continue.

And so I think everything was...

Repeat it. Not in life.

Yes yes okay.

I would live.

Bye!

Continue on in the sports.

They're putting death on me, you know.

But it was kind of this moment that it just aligned, and you actually like made a proposal.

I think he like put a proposal together to our parents, like around representing me.

And I called her Miss Felix in the proposal.

College then?

I was a couple of years out of college, I had just been running for a few years. I was sponsored by Nike and had the injury and then she got her Miss Felix letter.

So I guess the proposal was really great because, but it was like this kind of natural next step and I had all the confidence.

For me it was great because I felt like for the first time in my entire career, I could solely focus on the competition and the training and just say like, okay, you've got this other side.

You know, I looked at her business and at the time she had like this sponsorship with Adidas and that was where like her income came from.

Name from.

But she had these outside sponsors, and there were two of them, and one was Visa and one was Powerbar, and together it was a combined $35,000 a year.

Mm-hmm.

And so I looked at that and was like, that sounds crazy to me.

Bye.

My sister just won an Olympic silver medal. She's 18 years old.

medal. She's 18 years old.

Like she's like the youngest Olympian on the team.

She's the youngest sprint world champion in history.

$35,000 doesn't, I didn't know what a lot was, but I knew 35,000 wasn't a lot.

What do you think it was that, why do you think you were underpaid at that time?

Because it is true.

You were a phenom, but you were making $35,000 a year.

I think probably a combination of things, but I was at a large agency.

And I think I, well, I felt like I was lost in the cracks.

Mm-hmm. I didn't.

I didn't feel like anybody was really fighting for me.

I think in, especially being a female, a black woman, someone has to be out there really going hard for you.

And I don't think I was showing up in rooms. I don't think I really was a factor in so much.

I don't think anyone was really pushing for me and so I think that all shifted when the person representing me also cared about me, you know, and cared about my wellbeing and Yeah, that really shifted when we started working together.

And it's hard because, you know, everything is about the Olympic Games for us.

That is our championship.

That's the biggest thing.

But it happens every four years.

And the world only pays attention for those two weeks.

And so all of your earning potential is really right there.

But it's also the most, you now, it's the event you have to be ready for. And so there's...

for. And so there's...

So much that goes into the training, the day in and day out. And we do have a

day out. And we do have a professional circuit that we participate every year, but it's nothing like the Olympic games.

And so just the weight of that and the opportunity is small.

The window is small of your earning potential.

And so, a lot goes into it and...

it and...

I always say it's, you know, for me, my race was the 221 seconds.

And if you mess it up, you've got to wait another four years.

And so it's not only the athletic pursuit of it, but the business side of it as well.

It's like, how do we maximize this time that you don't know if you're going to go once or you'll have multiple opportunities.

So I think it's really difficult for Olympians.

And then when you start to even get smaller for, you know, for.

Olympians of color for women, you know, the opportunities are smaller.

So it's been challenging through the years to really be able to get out there.

And I always feel like for female athletes as well, is not only do you have to be extraordinary in what you do, but there's also this other thing where it feels like there's like the standard of beauty or there's, you have to also be appealing in this certain way.

And it I think after a while, it just becomes exhausting.

It's like you're constantly fighting to make it.

And sometimes you feel like you are not yourself when you're trying to fit this version of like, what are they looking for?

How can I be that when it's not really who I am?

And so I think it's really been a struggle, but I think definitely it was a turning point when we started working together, I felt like I could lean into more of myself.

And be able to honor that.

I also want to just pitch She Runs the World, which is an amazing documentary that, and I want to talk more about that, that really gives the audience a clear sense of who you both are and, you know, character-wise as an athlete.

Um.

Uh, so I want people to, cause that's it, it's, I know it's done.

I've seen it and it's played at the Martha's Vineyard African-American Film Festival.

But I hope more people are going to get to see it, but be on the lookout for she runs the world and we'll talk more about that story. But

story. But you guys did something different to keep the light shining.

Um, because we, we know Alison Felix, um, you know, we, we know you inside and out.

Um, so what did you all, what do you think the difference was for you, um in sort of maintaining kind of a high level of presence and building an economic model that could sustain you.

I think it really was eventually doing things outside of the traditional sense.

I think a lot of stuff shifted for us when we started speaking out, once we created our company and I was sponsored by Seishu, our own company.

It was like breaking outside of mold of the way that things had always been done and understanding that that's okay and that's good.

And I think it was also just.

Being ourselves, instead of trying to fit into this mold of what you think that they're looking for.

Can we talk about what we're talking to? Because you're

to? Because you're killing it, winning medals, got big Nike sponsorship.

You are the female athlete at Nike and they are making money off of you and you are killing it.

And then this wonderful thing happens that turns out to not be a wonderful thing in sports.

Can you talk a bit about it?

Yeah, I started a family and I had, I was really scared to do that. You had the nerve. I know.

that. You had the nerve. I know.

Well, I waited first because I felt like I couldn't.

I had seen, you know, my friends and I'd seen my teammates struggle. And so I felt, like, okay,

struggle. And so I felt, like, okay, well, if I do enough, if I have enough medals, then that won't be me.

And I waited, I had gone to four games, I had six gold medals, and I felt I'm in the safe zone and I start my family.

And even before I.

Disclose my pregnancy to them.

Our negotiations began at an offer of 70% less than what I was making before.

And that just like, that just shook me because it was like, wow, they don't even know and already this is in such a bad place. And so my

place. And so my fear amplified and I started to train, I started the hide my pregnancy. And so I would

pregnancy. And so I would train while it was dark.

I Like I wanted to be a mother so badly. I wanted all the, you know,

badly. I wanted all the, you know, the baby shower, the bump pictures.

And my experience was just lonely isolating.

I barely ever left the house.

When I did, I was in big baggy clothing and we were doing this because even when they offered the 70% less, it wasn't on paper.

And so there was- And what was the basis of them low balling you did?

I think it was really, you now, Iwas older.

You were getting older and they didn't think you could do it.

Yeah, and I think they didn't they had to pay me to do it, you know, who else was going to pay me?

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I found in representing Alison that people are afraid because I'm her brother. Mm-hmm.

They dance around things and I'll try to just tell them I was like, you know, I understand that's my sister. And also, I'm

my sister. And also, I'm not here as her brother, I mean here as our manager.

And so like, I need to understand what you're talking to say what you need to say, you know, and, and something that that they said was it's just business.

And also, you know, she is getting older.

And how old were you at the time?

Was I like 32?

Yeah. 32.

Yeah.

She's getting older and, you know, and as conversations went on and it got a bit more heated and truth came out a little bit more.

Something else they said that I found like unbelievably just offensive was, well, we've paid her a lot of money over the years.

And when I remember...

She's had enough. When the comment came out, you're kind of looking at a white man telling you His exact words were, well, she's made a lot of money with us.

I hope she's saved some.

And my comment was, and you've made much more money off of her than she's made off of you.

And as we went through the negotiations, what became really, really clear to me was that this was just because they believed they could.

It was because they could and, you know, there's the parts of that that are, that are ugly and horrible. There's a parts of, that

horrible. There's a parts of, that that, are just business and you don't have to be amazing, great people to do business.

It would obviously be better if you were, but you don't have to, be and, and I think what they, what they never thought could happen is what, what did happen. Um

happen. Um which is.

They never thought that we would actually stand up to them and that Alison would sit down and.

Yeah, I wrote a New York Times op-ed sharing what was going on.

We had turned our attention away from the financial part of it and asked for maternal protections, which simply meant the contracts are performance based.

And so they're created so that if you go to the Olympics or world championships, you get a bonus.

And if you don't, you got a reduction.

But if you have a baby or if you've just given birth, there was nothing to protect you.

So I was simply asking for time to be able to recover after childbirth.

And not be further financially penalized.

And at first, they said yes.

And I was like, okay, then we can move forward.

And when the contract came back, there was no mention of maternity, no pregnancy.

And what we learned was that they were not willing to set that precedent for everyone.

They were willing to give it to me, but not for everyone, and so for me, that was just, this happened over a course of time.

I ended up giving birth to my daughter and.

There was just, it just, to me, it felt unacceptable.

It just felt like I couldn't stand by on that.

So wrote that New York Times op-ed, shared what so many women before me had also, who were under NDAs, had gone through.

And yeah, shared my truth.

And I think it was about two and a half weeks after that op-Ed came out. That Nike

out. That Nike changed their policy along with many other companies today offering 18 months of maternal protection.

And yeah, but terrifying, you know.

I bet. Terrifying.

Really, really scary.

I'm thinking back to something you said earlier about your parents being of service to everyone.

That was your opportunity to be of service. Because you could have taken your money.

You could have just said, okay, I'm hooked up like a lot of people do and so kudos to you.

At any point in time during that whole process, did your passion for the sport change?

Like, did you feel like, oh, I'll show I'm not I'm I'm, I'm through with this.

I feel like I felt like I had a lot to prove after that.

It was almost like in going through that, I knew I wasn't done.

And I hated that I felt like they thought I was through, that now I was a mother, I needed to be on to something else.

I hated it that I was being forced.

In this narrative that I did not connect with.

I knew that I still could make it back to the Olympics.

I knew that I could still be the present mother that I wanted to be.

And so the idea that I felt like I couldn't make my own decision, that motivated me to say like, well, I want to show the world that this is a possibility.

And also I want to show my daughter that when it's her time to do whatever, that you can absolutely do the things that the convictions of your heart and that you can do it fully, you know, in all the ways.

And so that was the big shift that I felt.

Instead of walking away from the sport, you walked away from Nike.

I walked away from Nike and knew that I wasn't done and Wes and I, you know, always figuring it out, figuring out what was next.

We thought, you now, okay, we've got to find a new sponsor and that was the task.

But as we did a really deep dive in the industry, and Wes, I think really going into big brother mode, he was like, I just think that we should do this ourselves. And I'm like, well, what

ourselves. And I'm like, well, what exactly does that mean?

You know I had just had a baby, all these things are happening in the world.

And he said, I think that we should build a shoe company.

And that just felt also so big, just coming from where we come from. I didn't see the path to

come from. I didn't see the path to that, but the more that I sat with it, I understood what he was saying.

It was like, instead of begging these big brands to do the right thing, to build the thing differently, we could do it. And even though

it. And even though it was very ambitious.

We did that and we learned that, you know, shoes were not being made for women.

And that took time to figure out what that meant because, you know, we've all been to the shoe store and the women's side and I'm like, no, there's shoes.

But as we unpacked it, we learned, you now, a shoe is just made off of a last, which is a mold of a foot.

And it's the mold of man's foot used to make women's sneakers.

And I had no idea of being a runner that I was running literally in men's shoes and when we figured that out, it was like, wow. You know, we have this

wow. You know, we have this opportunity, you we can, We're at- absolutely where we're supposed to be and we can do things differently and we can also see and celebrate women in a holistic way that we didn't feel like was being done and I think you know when you've really given your life to something for so long and to feel so discarded it was very painful and so

it was picking up the pieces and to me you know to be able to make it back to the Olympics to to do it you know wearing our our shoes was incredible and also in front of my daughter, you know, and really getting to, you now, one day fully be able to tell her what all of that means.

I think it was really a full circle experience.

Also it was COVID year.

Yeah, it was a COVID year, yeah.

So you also, it was so different too, like first games we were not.

Yeah. Well, you skipped over the part that your pregnancy was not uneventful, which is the other powerful thing to watch in She Runs the World is just your physical stamina and your comeback because you had pre-eclampsia and

you had a C-section.

Yeah, you gave birth.

Early, so Cammie was premature and those days watching you and your husband go back and forth to that NICU and that New Year's Eve when you could bring her home, I just, ugh.

Yeah, it was heartbreaking, you know, and I think even more so, like, I didn't realize that that was not an uncommon experience, that so many black women have gone through that and so many don't get to have that experience of walking out of the hospital with their family. And so that

family. And so that shifted my life.

You know, I just felt like we have to be doing more.

There's no way that we can continue down this path, you know, for it to be more dangerous for me to give birth than it was for my mother. I mean, that just doesn't

my mother. I mean, that just doesn't make sense.

And something like 80% of deaths and complications of women of color are preventable.

And so that whole experience, you know I think it gave me just that push that I needed to be able to speak out and to be to do things I never would have imagined, because that's so far from what makes me feel comfortable, but it was, it's necessary because, you know, Black women are dying giving birth today in our country. It's.

our country. It's.

Well, you were living out the full experience of the devaluation of women and black women through this sport and through in the world.

I mean, Wes, like you said, women are, a lot of women we feel beaten down because there's so little investment in a woman's life, and to see it in this contract negotiation where they essentially say, you're done.

You know, we're through with you, you know, there are a lot of male athletes that get legacy deals where they're, you know, they're they are done, but you know the men around the table still see the value that they bring, which is how that's the other reason how they're making more money.

You know, so the shoe situation is like, it's like our health.

You know? We're not even told about the dangers of giving birth.

You know studies aren't being done, you know, outrage isn't happening.

We're just, we're doing the most important thing which is bringing life into the world and nobody tells us about preeclampsia or morning sickness or what it does to our bodies.

And now companies want to penalize female athletes in a pro-life world where we care so much about life, you know, but we don't care about the mother who's giving birth.

That's the full power of your story because there's so many, you've lived out the complete disparity in health.

Yeah. Among women,

black women, the economic disparities that we face as being a world-class athlete, an American hero.

Thank you.

It means so much.

Well, you know, we, we have a listener question, but before we get to the listener question I understand that you, you may have some news for us.

I don't know if it's news, but I think one thing, there's a thought that keeps coming back to me and I've been thinking about honoring it. And it's just really the idea,

it. And it's just really the idea, a lot of what we've been talking about as far as women and I think when we get to a certain age, that sometimes we are told that our life should look a certain way.

And so I've had this feeling of, do I want to come to LA?

Do I want to try?

One more time to make an Olympic team and I keep having the scary feeling of it feels like something I want to do and the push to honor that.

And not because I feel like I need to or that it's something around performance, but the feeling that I have is really around the narrative for women and, you know, this idea of can we have ambition after achievement?

Mm.

Can we, what if there is more? And I think I'm deeply

is more? And I think I'm deeply curious if I could do it.

Yeah!

I think it's really big and it's super, it's a big goal.

But it excites me and it scares me. And I think my first thought

me. And I think my first thought was, okay, this is something that I really want to hold on to and do in private.

But I think that that also makes me feel like it's probably the right thing.

It's a little scary.

It's scary. I mean, I think maybe it's something that other women can relate to.

If there's anybody who should feel like when it comes to her profession, her sport, her life, who has nothing to prove, it's you.

You don't have anything to prove.

You don't need this.

But if it's something you want, yeah yeah.

Because it's not for them.

You know, it's for this, it is for Cammie, it for all the Cammies that come after, all the women who were told no, who stopped when they were told, no.

All the women who will continue to be told, no, and how old are you now? I'm 40.

now? I'm 40.

You're 40. You're a baby.

I'm 62.

And you're absolutely right.

Those bars were false.

Those boxes that they put us in aren't true.

They've never been true.

Um, but because the world is designed for men.

They create the boxes, they put us in, you know, even though there's something in you that says, I might be able to do, I have it in me.

I am not who you say I am. I am NOT the box

am. I am NOT the box that you put me in.

We all need a little bit of that. Um, I think it would be a powerful statement.

And that's what hard things are.

You know, hard things, and I learned this from my husband because I'm probably, I'm not as shy as you, but I'm inclined to step back from a thing and go, why would you do that?

It seems like, you know, but I've got this partner who's like, why not?

You know?

If not than who, you know?

So that that's all it is.

It's just saying yes and then turning your back to what everybody else has to say Because the journey is going to require a lot of work and a lot Of focus that you already know how to do and I would just narrow in on the beauty of that process and let it be whatever it's going to be.

I just think the process of the effort is powerful, you know, and you're going to, you're, you want the goal, you don't want to lose.

And that's, that's great.

Now she's getting into my lane.

She's getting in my lane as the coach at the table.

Don't say coach.

I would, I suspect there's a little competition to haul like still left over.

Thank you.

And I would just be okay when this is a training start.

I mean, LeBron is still playing, you know?

Let's put the team together to make this successful.

Who's coaching, who's training who's setting the schedule.

I mean, I've got goosebumps.

I'm excited for you.

Well, I think it's also knowing that I'm OK if this ends with me not making it. It's the question of,

making it. It's the question of, is it possible?

Well, I'm not sure, but I'm deeply curious.

And I think just knowing that you can go for something, even at a certain age, that that doesn't have to be a limit. It doesn't have to be

limit. It doesn't have to be something that turns you away.

And not to poo poo all of the warm stuff we're talking about, a lot of athletes don't take it to the next level because they're afraid that they might not make it.

I'm trying to teach our high school kids that I'm coaching right now the beauty of the journey is in the process and the journey itself and that never goes away.

Yeah yeah I think failure or failure, you know, it's a part of it. I feel like I've learned so

of it. I feel like I've learned so much more from the things that didn't go the way that I had thought they were supposed to go.

And there's so much to be learned.

And so there is something that excites me of what will I learn in this process, you now?

And what is there, what is for me?

It may not look maybe like the goal that I have set before, but I think that there is some thing powerful there.

Oh Speaking of helping folks, this is a perfect time for our questions from Ashley in Long Beach.

When you consider a new venture, what signals tell you it's time to pivot and what criteria help you decide what to say yes to and what to lovingly release when your time and energy are finite?

For those of us with many callings and limited capacity, how do we pursue the next thing without sacrificing impact or our wellbeing?

That's a good question, because I feel like it's what I've been grappling with as well.

I know one place I like to start with is asking myself, is there an impact here?

Do I have purpose here?

Do I something to give instead of just thinking purely about things that are practical?

And so I think that if there is something that's bigger than yourself also there, that.

You know, that's a good indication that you're where you're supposed to be. So that's my first kind of

be. So that's my first kind of thoughts.

Well, and I, especially Ashley is a woman.

Like, guess what?

We don't, we can do stuff just for us, you know?

I mean, because I'm just listening and it's like, guess what?

You don't have to have a bigger purpose.

LeBron doesn't have a bigger purpose, Tom Brady didn't have, didn't have a big purpose.

I mean men decide they want to do it.

They do it regardless of whether their family wants it or anybody wants it.

Sometimes it's grounded and what does your heart tell you you want? And I think as women,

want? And I think as women, it's okay for us.

To look at what we want and to start from that place of how does this make me feel?

What what am I getting out of it?

You know, and and it's okay to start there as a woman You know We don't have to have a bigger purpose you your goal That's a lot of things that we will do around the table will impact other people and that's for all of us As people who grew up with service in our minds, that's always going to be there You know, so it's not even like you got to put

that in your head or, you know, if Ashley doesn't have to put that in her head because it's already there.

But I think it's okay to be driven by the thing that you care about.

You know? I tell young people, if you don't know what you want to be, then start thinking about what you like, you know, what you enjoy.

What, what, what if you're going to do something really well, it, you've got to have some level of excitement.

To get up every day and train for the next several years to qualify for the Olympics.

You Allison have to wanna get up everyday because nobody's gonna be watching the process.

Just like you said, that's the curse of the Olympic athlete.

You train in the dark, you leave in the darkness, and there's one meet.

There's one chance.

That's all it is.

It's 21 seconds, yeah.

And then everything else, you know, people may not care.

You may not get anything afterwards.

So it's all about what you want.

And I think for Ashley and for anyone out there making choices, I think it's perfectly fine to start with what will bring me joy, what will get me out of bed.

And if the thing I'm doing right now isn't doing that, then let me take some time to figure that out.

And I think young people have to understand that, you know, in life, you don't pick a one thing oftentimes and do it forever.

The world isn't even designed like that anymore.

Gone are the days when our grandparents retired from 35 years and got the gold watch.

Company corporations don't show that kind of loyalty to people as we saw with Nike. Yes.

with Nike. Yes.

So you have to be wired to have some level of flexibility.

To analyze where am I now?

Is it time for me to move on?

And some of that's going to come from what's happening day to day.

Is there no longer a path, way for you that makes you excited in what you're doing?

You know, there may not be the support in your current activity that gives you the signal that maybe it's time for you to do something else.

Um, so there are many cues in life, but the ability to remain flexible.

You know, and to be nimble, you know, just even having a nimble mind in constantly thinking about your situation and what's coming next.

I think that also helps to prepare you and to give you the clues to whether it's time to do something else.

This has been great.

You know, it has been, it's like talking to a mirror image without the metal.

Without the medals, but, you know, and the shoe company.

A few other things, I think, yeah.

I think you're doing okay.

This is exciting.

I hope you document the journey.

I know you might want to do it in quiet, but I think the way you train, the way, you mentally prepare, how you move through life, just as in She Runs the World. Mm-hmm.

the World. Mm-hmm.

That is a powerful way to tell a story.

So it is a story that I hope people can connect with and I hope go through it with me.

Yeah So yeah, I will definitely want to bring everyone in.

Well, we're going to be there with you.

We support you, cheer you both on.

Please keep us in mind, and if you want to come back on to talk about the journey as you're going through it, if you wanna scream, yell shout we welcome you back any time. Thank you so much.

time. Thank you so much.

And I know nothing about track, but I am a good cheerleader, so strong coach.

Yeah, a coach and all, so yeah.

Yeah, you get that early morning and you just don't feel it.

Just just give us a call I appreciate that.

I will.

Like, telling someone outside of...

outside of...

You say that.

She just told her mom yesterday.

Oh my.

This is like, this is really...

How does it feel?

It feels like, it feels good.

It feels, it feels like it's something I'm supposed to do. Like, no matter how

do. Like, no matter how it ends up.

I think, you know, Craig, what you said, it's, it's the journey and it's one I'm excited to take.

I'm a little scared.

But I think that, well, I hope that it's one that other people also can understand that, you know, we might be doing different things, but it's the same.

I'm sorry.