America's Book Club: Walter Isaacson (Full Program)

America's Book Club is brought to [music] you by these television companies and is supported by the Ford Foundation.

From the nation's iconic libraries and institutions, [music] America's Book Club takes you on a powerful journey of ideas, exploring the lives and inspiration of writers who have defined

the country in conversation [music] with civic leader and author David Rubenstein. As a young boy growing up in

Rubenstein. As a young boy growing up in Baltimore, I went to my local library and was inspired to read as many books as I could. Hopefully, people will enjoy hearing from these authors and hopefully

they'll want to read more. Now from the National Archives in Washington DC, former CEO of CNN and editor of Time magazine, best-selling biographer of

Albert Einstein, Steve Jobs, Benjamin Franklin, [music] and Elon Musk, Walter Isaxson.

[applause] Well, let me welcome everyone here. I

want to thank the National Archives for letting us use the National Archives uh uh perception room and I want to thank Walter Isaxson for being here. Walter

has a storied career. After graduating

from Harvard, he was a road scholar at Oxford. After that he went to Time

Oxford. After that he went to Time magazine after a few other journalistic detours and ultimately became the managing director of uh of Time

magazine. From there he later went to

magazine. From there he later went to CNN where he became the president of CNN and from there he went to uh the Aspen Institute where he was the president of the Aspen Institute. And while he was

doing all that he was writing books. So

not just having a job but in his spare hours he was writing incredible books that became bestsellers. We're going to go through those today and talk about his life as an author and also as a

person as a historian. So Walter, thank you very much for doing this. David,

it's great to be back with you.

>> So, um, let's talk about, uh, your books on geniuses. You've written a number of

on geniuses. You've written a number of books. People would say these are

books. People would say these are geniuses. Albert Einstein, Steve Jobs,

geniuses. Albert Einstein, Steve Jobs, most recently, um, Elon Musk, um, Benjamin Franklin, Leonardo da Vinci, among others. We'll go through each of

among others. We'll go through each of these, but what attracted you to these people? Was it because they were

people? Was it because they were geniuses or you just happened to like them? Well, you know, in our

them? Well, you know, in our professions, uh, we meet a lot of smart people. And at certain point, you

people. And at certain point, you realize smart people are a dime a dozen.

In order to be a genius, you have to be creative. You have to think out of the

creative. You have to think out of the box. And one of the things that struck

box. And one of the things that struck me when I wrote about Benjamin Franklin early on was what a great scientist and technologist he was. We think of him as a daughter dude flying a kite in the

rain, but those were the most important scientific experiments of the time. So I

decided to do as sort of the row I would plow in the field of biography. Those

who connect the arts and the sciences, the humanities and technology.

>> Okay. So let's talk about uh Benjamin Franklin.

>> Um obviously he's famous for many things. He's on the $100 bill, famous

things. He's on the $100 bill, famous for um having been involved in both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, among other things. all

five founding documents, including one we just saw, the Treaty of Paris. And

>> what was so talented about him? He

didn't go to college. He didn't grow go to high school. He basically was selftaught right?

>> Way. Yeah. Exactly. Very much

self-taught because he was lucky to be apprentice to his older brother who was a printer and book seller. So, he'd take the books down every night. But when you look at really uh great people,

sometimes it's a team. And you needed smart people for the founding of our nation. And you had Jefferson and

nation. And you had Jefferson and Madison and so you needed passionate people like Samuel Adams and his cousin John and people of great rectitude like Washington. But the real key is can you

Washington. But the real key is can you find the common ground? Can you bring people together? And Franklin had a

people together? And Franklin had a wisdom that's not always there with intelligence. Wisdom is more important.

intelligence. Wisdom is more important.

>> So when you started researching him you found he had some flaws. Not a perfect person unlike everybody else. A lot of my pe a lot of the people I write about have flaws.

>> But I remember in your book you pointed out that uh he lived in England for a long time, right?

>> At one point he got a letter from a friend saying, "Your wife, his common law wife living in Philadelphia is dying. You ought to come back and be

dying. You ought to come back and be with her.

>> He hadn't been with her in 10 years."

>> You know, he was definitely not winning the award for the best family man ever.

Uh he has Deborah, his common law wife.

She had been married before and her husband had disappeared. So, they had to have a common law relationship. Franklin

even has a son, a son born out of wedlock right before they got married, but he takes the son in. And so, not only is his relationship with Deborah sort of functional. She didn't like to

travel. He traveled all the time, but

travel. He traveled all the time, but William uh became a loyalist to the crown and broke with his father, Benjamin Franklin. So that conflict in

Benjamin Franklin. So that conflict in the family is part of the interesting tale.

>> Now he was at the second continental congress which drafted the Declaration of Independence. Did he draft it or did

of Independence. Did he draft it or did Jefferson draft it?

>> Well, Jefferson gets to be chair of the committee as you know which includes John Adams, Benjamin Franklin and two other uh representatives. Adams takes

credit for making Jefferson the have the right to write the first draft. Although

I think even if uh they didn't want Adams to do it, Jefferson was the youngest but the best writer. But what

happens is Jefferson finishes a draft on June 21st, I think 1776, and sends it down Market Street, one block, and to

Dr. Frank to Ben Franklin and says, "Would the good Dr. Franklin make any improvements he wants?" So you can watch five different drafts of the declaration

which for those of us who are editors is kind of inspiring.

>> So when you wrote that book, how long did it take you to write that book?

>> It took about three or four years. But I

had been thinking about Franklin and especially his science. My father was an engineer. I loved the idea of the

engineer. I loved the idea of the invention of batteries and electricity and currents. And so I'd always studied

and currents. And so I'd always studied his science. And then I said after I'd

his science. And then I said after I'd done Henry Kissinger, I wanted to figure out balance of power diplomacy which was Franklin's expertise but how that connected to Newtonian checks and

balances.

>> Now Franklin did he discover electricity or what did he really do?

>> What he did was discover that lightning was electricity which was quite important because lightning was the biggest scourge of uh the time. He also

discovered that electricity was a flow.

people thought you know static electricity they couldn't quite figure it out but he realized he coins the terms plus and minus negative and positive battery and he realizes it's

called the single fluid theory of electricity which other than Newton's theories is probably the most important theory of that century >> now complic

geniuses and accomplish a lot in life have complicated personal lives >> sure >> so you've already mentioned Franklin um had a complicated personal life. But his

um grant his son did he not in was he not in favor of imprisoning his son because his son was a loyalist?

>> Yeah, his son remains a loyalist but had become royal governor of New Jersey uh which was a crown appointment before the revolution. And if you read Franklin's

revolution. And if you read Franklin's autobiography which he you know wrote in middle of life, it begins with the phrase dear son. Now, it's not really written for his son, but it's to remind

his son of his humble roots and not to become part of the royalty and aristocracy. So, when George Washington

aristocracy. So, when George Washington is taking over, he realizes when he gets to New Jersey, is he going to have to arrest Benjamin Franklin's son? And

Benjamin Franklin says, "Go for it."

>> Now, today, everybody writes an autobiography. It seems there's nobody

autobiography. It seems there's nobody doesn't have an autobiography. Right.

But his autobiography was very novel at the time because people didn't write autobiographies at the time. Is that

right? There was not really a just personal chatty you know Russo others had done their pones like Pascal but they were basically meditations

Franklin writes in the pure vernacular just chatting away at the reader so he's almost inventing not just autobiography but that folksy homespun way of writing

that you see all the way through Will Rogers and to the present >> in the colonial days people or leaders seemed to like to wear wigs to cover up in part the fact that they were bald.

>> That's right.

>> How come he didn't have a wig? And why

was he willing to show his bald head with his long hair?

>> When he becomes ambassador to Paris, he's there sent by the colonies and try to get them in on our side on the revolution. He knows that the French

revolution. He knows that the French have read Rouso perhaps once too often.

So they believe in the natural man from the forests and how that's a source of morality. Benjamin Franklin had never

morality. Benjamin Franklin had never been to a forest hardly. He grew up on, you know, in Boston, Philadelphia, and London, but he wears a coonkin cap or a

beaver cap, a fur cap, and the women of Paris used to touch it and all, and it became his way of showing he was a homespun American.

>> Uh, let's talk about somebody you wrote about, uh, you just mentioned, Henry Kissinger. Now, when you were writing

Kissinger. Now, when you were writing writing about Kissinger, you're writing a book about somebody that Kissinger would say he was a genius. Um, but uh he was alive. Franklin was not alive. Is it

was alive. Franklin was not alive. Is it

easier to write a book about somebody who's alive or somebody's not alive?

>> Well, after I finished uh doing Henry Kissinger and had to deal with the blowback and the fallout and him explaining to me how I was wrong about how great he was, I said, I'm going to

do somebody who's been dead for 250 years. So, I walked back to Franklin.

years. So, I walked back to Franklin.

And then after doing Steve Jobs, it was somewhat similar. I mean, he was a tough

somewhat similar. I mean, he was a tough uh character to deal with. I said, I'm going to do somebody's been dead 500 years. So, I did Leonardo.

years. So, I did Leonardo.

>> What was Kissinger's genius, if you could summarize, >> Kissinger's genius was he had a fingertip feel. The Germans would call

fingertip feel. The Germans would call it finger spits in guel of how something somewhere would affect something else.

How everything is interrelated in foreign affairs. So as he's playing off

foreign affairs. So as he's playing off the North Vietnamese with the Russians, their patron, the Chinese, he could do that real politique that he learned from Bismar and Metanick.

>> Now Kissinger wasn't happy with your book. He liked the title of it.

book. He liked the title of it.

>> Yeah. Right. When somebody said, "Did you like Walter's book?" He says, "Well, I like the title."

>> It was Kissinger.

>> But did he eventually forgive you for writing a book that he didn't like?

>> I was then the editor of Time. Uh, and

we decided to invite back for our 75th anniversary everybody but on the cover of Time and Gorbachef was coming and Sophia Lauren was coming and Bill Clinton and everybody else and I was wondering whether Henry Kissinger would

come and then my phone rang in my office because he had been mad at me and he says Valter even the 30 years war had to end at some point. I will come to your party.

>> What about his wife? He then paused and said, "You know Nancy, my wife, she's very partial to the Hundred Years War.

We will have to work on her." But then they came and I seated him next to Joe Deaggio and they were thrilled.

>> So you mentioned Steve Jobs. Um, how did you get the idea for writing a book about Steve Jobs?

>> I was uh had just finished uh Einstein.

I did Ben Franklin Einstein and I was at a book event in California and there's Steve Jobs. He said, "Let's take a

Steve Jobs. He said, "Let's take a walk." And we take a walk and he says,

walk." And we take a walk and he says, "Do me next." And my first reaction was, "Yeah, you arrogant, you know, uh,

Einstein Einstein, you." But then I realized first of all that he had been diagnosed with cancer and that he had affected our lives more than anybody

else. Everything from the cell phone we

else. Everything from the cell phone we have in our pocket to the fact we can p plug in a computer and play with it to retail stores to digital animation.

everything a thousand songs in our pocket that he had affected our lives the most and he was somebody who connected technology to the humanity so he was perfect

>> so when you wrote about Kissinger I assume it wasn't a lot of interviews you certainly weren't uh trailing him all his meetings I >> actually uh Dr. Kissinger gave me about

30 interviews. In fact, he used to do it

30 interviews. In fact, he used to do it at breakfast at 6:00 a.m. which is not my favorite day part. And every now and then he call said, "Valta, you still do not understand why we had to bomb

Cambodia. Let's have another breakfast

Cambodia. Let's have another breakfast session." So, I I had enough interviews.

session." So, I I had enough interviews.

>> Okay. Well, Franklin obviously was had passed away. So, you went through

passed away. So, you went through documents and so forth with Steve Jobs.

Did he give you even more access than Henry Kishner did?

>> Totally. I made a arrangement with um Steve Jobs which is I don't want to do it based on interviews. I want to do it based on being by your side walking through your design studio with Johnny I

being at meetings being at your house in Palo Alto just watching you. And he said fine. And then I said uh but I I want

fine. And then I said uh but I I want you to have no control over the book. He

said fine I won't even read it in advance. He said that way it'll seem

advance. He said that way it'll seem more real. it won't seem like it was a

more real. it won't seem like it was a fake book.

>> So, uh, when you wrote the book, uh, you realized he was ill and you were writing the book and he passed away just shortly before the book came out.

>> So, um, did you then feel that you had something that was so unique because you were the last person who really had access to him and and, uh, how did the book do?

>> Well, the important thing about the book was I just let the story tell itself. I

realized I had such good material. Every

meeting, everything about him, all everything from Steve Wniaak to John Scully who he got rid of, all these people. And so I didn't try to preach or

people. And so I didn't try to preach or pontificate. I said, just let me tell

pontificate. I said, just let me tell you a story. And the book did well, not because of the book, but he was just, you know, almost canonized from here to

China and everybody wanted to read about his magic. So uh when you when you're a

his magic. So uh when you when you're a a book writer, let's say a history book writer or writer of biographies, typically you do lots of research. You

could do three, four, five years and then people start writing.

>> That's what they do. Some of them do that way. Like Ron Chernow would say he

that way. Like Ron Chernow would say he spends four or five years researching then he writes.

>> Yeah.

>> Um in your case, you're a journalist by background. And so when you get

background. And so when you get information, do you go back after a week or two and write it up and then you write your book in kind of in a serial way or do you wait till all the research is done and then you start writing?

>> I start writing and putting it together as I'm doing the research, especially with a living person. You asked about whether it's better to do a living person or a dead person. In some ways,

my strength is [snorts] as a reporter.

They're much they're greater historians like David McCulla who know how to come to buildings like this for archives, but I'm good at getting people to talk. And

so when I do it that way, what I do is do a first draft just like the first draft of the declaration and a second draft. And finally, when I did Leonardo,

draft. And finally, when I did Leonardo, I learned it was his trick as well. You

almost do an underdrawing, then you do a sketch and then line, you keep putting lines and paintbrush strokes on it. So

the books we've talked about were people who were mostly uh people who were let's say born in the United States or not Kishner wasn't born here but spent most of his life here. Um when you wrote

about Einstein he spent a large part of his life uh in Germany and in Europe. Um

did you have to learn German to be able to understand everything he had done earlier in his life or how did you do that?

>> No. Although I did have a German translator just as when I did Leonardo, I had somebody who not only knew Italian but knew the Umbrean dialect of the

1500s where uh which is what uh Leonardo did. I'm doing Marie Cury now and

did. I'm doing Marie Cury now and joyfully knew French as a child and I'm learning French again.

>> So Einstein it is often said that as a young boy he was not all that smart and they used to call him dummy or something like that. Is that true? your departe,

like that. Is that true? your departe,

the dopey one in the family because he was slow in learning how to talk as a child. He had what is called echalleia.

child. He had what is called echalleia.

He would repeat he would he would repeat, you know, himself as he tried to talk. And so they all thought they even

talk. And so they all thought they even hired a tutor. They sent him to a doctor. But Einstein said that that

doctor. But Einstein said that that really helped him because he thought in pictures. He visualized things like he'd

pictures. He visualized things like he'd see Maxwell's equations and he'd visualize a light wave. And what's the story with the hair with Einstein? I

mean, [laughter] what was why why couldn't he just get a comb?

>> I think he felt that uh it was a waste of time. But what's particularly

of time. But what's particularly interesting to me, and I play with it in the book, is suppose he didn't have that wild halo of hair. If he didn't look like the genius, he looked like Neil's

boar or something. Would he have been as famous? And my answer is yes, even

famous? And my answer is yes, even without the wild halo of hair. So it is said that his three pursuits that he really enjoyed the most were sailing, >> playing the violin,

>> Mozart on the violin >> and maybe meeting women.

>> Well, he liked physics, too, >> right? Okay. Physics. But I'm talking

>> right? Okay. Physics. But I'm talking about other pursuits. So as a sailor, he had to get the Coast Guard to call him >> all the time. I mean, he had a little place in near Berlin uh on a lake, and

that was problematic. Eventually, the

Nazis came in and raided it, which is why he came over. He's at the end of Long Island and he'd be dreamy in these little dingies, just one person, and they'd have to send the Coast Guard out for him.

>> Was he a good violinist?

>> He was actually pretty good. I think

that what was important was he would say, even when I was doing general relativity, the most elegant theory in all of science, whenever he was stumped, you know, sometimes we have writer's

block, I think he had equation block.

He'd say, "I'd pull out my violin and play Mozart, which would connect me to the harmony of the spheres."

>> He had a complicated personal life. His

first wife was was it his cousin?

>> Uh, no, no, no. uh his first wife was somebody in the Zurich Polytech with him who was the only woman Marich who uh was

a physics student in the polytech and helped him in some ways in the 1905 papers by typing them up helping with the math and some people say she doesn't

get enough credit although in my book I explore exactly what she contributed >> interestingly um they had a relationship before they got married and they had a child

>> and because it was considered in German Jewish circles not to be very good to have child children out of wedlock they gave the child up um for adoption later

when they got married they never went back to find a child is that right >> yeah it's one of life's mysteries and we have many mysteries in my biography like who is the mother of Benjamin Franklin's

son William is I play with that in the book but also what happened to Albert Einstein and Maleva's first child who seems to have been put up for adoption and probably died young uh in one of the

plagues.

>> But later when they wanted to get divorced, Einstein said, I guess according to your book, look, I really would like to get divorced. And she

said, well, I'm not sure I want to. He

said, I'll give you uh the proceeds of my Nobel Prize if I win one if we get divorced. And

divorced. And >> it was a great deal. He says, and this is he wrote these papers in 1905. He

says, "One of these papers will win the Nobel if you give me the divorce. you

will get the proceeds. The Nobel, as you know, is huge sums of money, especially back then. And she's very smart. She's a

back then. And she's very smart. She's a

scientist, mathematician. She consults

with Fritz Hobber and others. She

calculates the odds, takes the bet, and finally, I think in 1919 or so, he wins the prize. 14 years later, she gets all

the prize. 14 years later, she gets all the money and buys two apartment buildings in Zurich.

>> Right. So, uh, his second wife, was he not related to his second wife?

>> Yeah. His second wife was his cousin in two different ways.

>> Okay. And that marriage worked out.

>> Yeah. Elsa was more of a companion just like we talked about Franklin and Deborah. It was a companionship

Deborah. It was a companionship relationship, but Elsa was very good for Albert Einstein.

>> Now, you know, lots of times if you're a famous person, you have children, it can be a burden for the children. If your

father is Albert Einstein, people must think, hey, you're pretty smart. What

happened to He had two sons. Uh what

happened to them?

>> One of them had mental issues and ended up in an asylum. the other ended up at Caltech. So I guess that's a slightly

Caltech. So I guess that's a slightly different thing but had to walk at Caltech past the bust of his father but I think was very loving to his father.

>> Okay. So uh you mentioned uh um something about Albert Einstein and the child and we talked about the one he gave up and that reminded me of something maybe the most uh kind of

interesting part of the book on Steve Jobs at least the part I thought so was interesting. Steve Jobs was adopted

interesting. Steve Jobs was adopted >> and at one point his sister found out who their father was.

>> Right. The

>> And you can tell the story of did he want to meet his father after all these years? He had and and did he did he know

years? He had and and did he did he know who the father actually was and did he want to meet him?

>> Yes. What happened was his sister who's a novelist said uh they he she reignites with Steve. They find out that they're

with Steve. They find out that they're basically full brother and sister. But

the father who had been a graduate student from Syria in Wisconsin had sort of gone off and disappeared. And uh she tracks him down and finds out he's

running a I think coffee shop or restaurant in Sacramento and they go to find him and Steve box at the last minute says I don't want to see the guy.

So she goes and sees the father lost father and he says to her oh I'm so sorry and I wish you had seen me earlier. I used to have a great

earlier. I used to have a great restaurant in San Jose. Everybody used

to come to it. Even Steve Jobs and she bites her tongue and doesn't say Steve Jobs is your son.

>> And he died never knowing that Steve Jobs was >> No, he found out uh but I don't think Steve had a strong >> But Steve never actually met him.

>> No.

>> Okay. So, um when you were doing the Steve Jobs uh book and the Einstein book, were you employed then at CNN or are you at Aspen? Uh the Steve Jobs

book, I think I'd just gone to Aspen. Uh

and that was good because it gave me a lot of time to think and reflect. Uh

Einstein, I was still working as a journalist. Now uh when Einstein died um

journalist. Now uh when Einstein died um >> probably violating a lot of medical ethics uh the surgeon who was there at

the end took his brain out to examine whether he had some special features.

Whatever happened to that brain and did he have a different brain than everybody else?

>> It's amazing. So the guy who does the autopsy says I'm not going to bury Einstein's brain puts it in an ice chest and drives it around. It goes around America at times and he studies it.

There's some differences, but you're not going to find why Einstein is Einstein by looking at, you know, the neurotransmitter code. Uh, but he ended

neurotransmitter code. Uh, but he ended up keeping Einstein's brain.

>> Now, you wrote another book about the innovators, people who were involved in a lot of technology uh kind of breakthroughs, Robert Noise uh that from one of the founders of Vintel and

others. What did you discover about

others. What did you discover about these innovators? Who were they and why

these innovators? Who were they and why did they kind of help the United States move forward in the technological revolution?

>> We biographers have a dirted a little secret which is we make it seem like some guy or gal goes to a garage or Garrett has a light bulb moment innovation happens. We all know it's a

innovation happens. We all know it's a team sport that creativity is a collaborative effort. So I wanted to

collaborative effort. So I wanted to show that through the innovators how all these people work together and you had a magical time beginning say in 1955 Steve

Jobs uh Tim Berners Lee who does a worldwide web and Bill Gates are all born that year and then what happens for Steve and Bill Gates is Silicon Valley

happens. You have venture capitalists

happens. You have venture capitalists coming in and funding it. You have

Stanford doing basic research. You have

government funding of basic research. So

you have just as you had in Florence in 1500 when Leonardo comes from the village of Veni, you had in Silicon Valley the cradle uh for innovation.

>> So of those people in Silicon Valley at that time, who were the ones that were the quote geniuses? Was Robert noise one of them? And

of them? And >> well, Robert Noise was a genius but in a quiet brilliant way to understand the microchip. But he partners and this is

microchip. But he partners and this is the point of the innovators. It's teams.

He partners with Gordon Moore, famous for Moore's law, which talks about the increase of power of microchips, and he's a true genius. But neither of them can get chips out the door. So, they

have to get a third partner, which is Andy Grove. And it's about just like

Andy Grove. And it's about just like writing the declaration, how it's a team effort.

>> So, let's talk about Leonardo. Um, it's

one thing to write about people that have been around for that are alive or recently alive or maybe alive only 200 years ago. Leonardo was alive like 500

years ago. Leonardo was alive like 500 years ago. Uh, how hard is it to get

years ago. Uh, how hard is it to get information about Leonardo and why were you so fascinated about him?

>> Uh, first of all, because he is the ultimate, as Steve Jobs said to me when he said, I want you to do my biography because you connect the humanities to the sciences. And then he said, and the

the sciences. And then he said, and the ultimate of that is Leonardo, the guy who does Vuvian man, you know, the naked dude doing jumping jacks in the circle and square. And he said, that's the

and square. And he said, that's the symbol of it. And the really great thing about Leonardo, and here we are in the National Archives, is that he left us

more than 7,000 pages of his notebooks.

You can just go page by page and see him sketching the people for the last supper, but also trying to do Fibonacci equations by how curls work. With Steve

Jobs, I tried to get his stuff from the 1990s. He and I tried to get the memos

1990s. He and I tried to get the memos he wrote. They were in a next computer

he wrote. They were in a next computer and the operating system doesn't work.

Paper is a great technology. It has a operating system that never goes out. It

has an infinite battery life. And so

with Leonardo, we have these things.

Now, Leonardo was the um illegitimate son of a >> notary of a notary in Italy, but he was father didn't really make him a notary.

Is that right?

>> Every person I've written about has been a bit of a misfit as a kid. We've talked

about Steve Jobs being adopted or Einstein being Jewish in Germany and stuff. And with Leonardo, he's born out

stuff. And with Leonardo, he's born out of wedlock. He's left-handed. He's gay.

of wedlock. He's left-handed. He's gay.

He's in this village of Veni. And his

father could have legitimated him back then. a Catholic church there were ways

then. a Catholic church there were ways to do things and you could be legitimate yourself but doesn't do it this is a godsend for Leonardo because he would have been a horrible notary but not

being a notary he got to go to Florence and become an artist and an engineer >> ultimately uh he one time he's applying for a job I think for the Duke of Medici and he says I can do this I can do that

and by the way I can also paint a little >> yeah no he's uh going to Milan because he's age 30 he's reaching that horrible milestone you and I remember and he has

painted a few paintings but not quite finished them the adoration of the magi and others. He hasn't done his

and others. He hasn't done his commissions for all the medi. And so he writes a letter to the Duke of Milan that's just priceless. And he says, "I can make weapons of war. I can do great

engineering things. I can make public

engineering things. I can make public buildings. I can make bridges." And in

buildings. I can make bridges." And in the last paragraph of the 11 paragraph letter, he says, "I can also paint and sculpt as well as anybody." Okay?

>> And thus he does.

>> Now, how many extent paintings are there from Leonardo? somewhat controversial

from Leonardo? somewhat controversial but at least 12 that have been totally finished and up to 18 depending on how you count things like Salvador Mundi the

one that's disputed that I think and Muhammad bin Salman bought >> so let's talk about the most famous painting of them all uh the Mona Lisa why is it so famous and how long did he

work on that >> well it's the most famous because it's the greatest painting ever done he worked on it for at least 15 years carrying it with him wherever he went and the one thing that makes it

miraculous is the science of it. He

dissects the human eye and you know as a scientist to figure out that in the corner of your eye you see shadows and colors well but in the center of your retina you see points. So he's able to

make the smile of the Mona Lisa the shadows go up on one side but the but the details go down. So even as you move your head the smile is enigmatic. It

flashes on and off. Likewise, he does that with the eyes. So, he dissects human faces to know every nerve that touches the lips and the eyebrows. So,

it's a triumph of science and art.

>> And at one point, uh Jackie Kenny when she's first lady u talks de Gaulle and the minister of culture in France into lending uh the Leonardo famous Mona Lisa

to the National Gallery of Art which is a couple blocks from here. Um, was that a big deal in the United States when it came over?

>> It was a big deal in France. Governments

of France have fallen for less and de Gaulle had to be totally smitten by Jacqueline Onasses to allow it to come both here to the National Gallery and then I think to the Metropolitan Museum.

As you know very well, the National Gallery has the only Leonardo painting uh in North America, probably outside of Europe, which is Janevra Deeni, which is

in some way the precursor to the Mona Lisa. It has many of the same elements.

Lisa. It has many of the same elements.

>> So if the Mona Lisa went for sale, which I guess it never would, the entire French government would fall. That's

probably >> the whole French government would fall if they renovated it, which they need to do. is not really as dark as it seems.

do. is not really as dark as it seems. Uh they've done that uh with some of Leonardo's other paintings. And at the Louv, they're desperate to just take it

out, take a year, clean off the grime and the dirt and the yellowing. But I

don't think any French government can survive saying, "Okay, we'll take it out of commission."

of commission." >> But it's not even painted on canvas.

It's on wood, more or less.

>> Yeah, it's on wood. And uh he did that sometimes. And of course when he does

sometimes. And of course when he does the last supper he does it almost on plaster on a wall and so he was always experimenting in the case of the last supper to the detriment of the painting

but it works well for the Mona Lisa.

>> Now Leonardo was also interested in a lot of inventions and he designed helicopters and things. Did any of his inventions actually ever get implemented?

>> Not much. I mean the famous helicopter which is looks like that corkcrew. I

don't think you can just you can even say the name without going like this because you have to show it. Uh that of course never works but eventually the theory behind it works. He does have

these great weapons of war he's trying to do for the Duke of Milan and uh for uh other warlords he's working for. I

think there's certain things he does that works but he he loved being an engineer but it's mainly the architecture and some of the things he

designed that work the best. Now, um,

the people you've written about, the geniuses were all men.

>> Well, Jennifer Dnner, who >> But now you decided to write a book about Jennifer DNA. Uh, was that because your daughter said to you, "Write a book about a woman who's a genius as well or

>> Well, my daughter actually said when she was applying to college, and we of our generation think you're supposed to help them with the essay, and she wouldn't let me even read it." I said, "Who did you do?" And she said, "Adya Love Lace."

you do?" And she said, "Adya Love Lace."

I said, "Who's Ada Love Lace?" She said, "Oh, Dad. She invented the first

"Oh, Dad. She invented the first computer algorithm. So Adah Love Lace

computer algorithm. So Adah Love Lace becomes the framing device of the book the innovators I did. But after doing physics you you know with Einstein and

the digital revolution the next revolution is life sciences revolution.

I said how can I capture that? And I got to know all the people who are doing gene editing and Jennifer D now said she's the one who's going to win the Nobel Prize and it's hard to hack the uh

Swedish Academy but we were able to make sure she won the Nobel Prize.

>> Well, you wrote her book about her and as you're writing the book and I don't know if remember was it just the book was about to come out when she won the Nobel Prize.

>> Totally. Yes. And there's a wonderful picture in the book because she's at Berkeley and at 500 a.m. she's told she she's in the kitchen on the phone with her husband and little son. And the main

question I had is how did they get that picture? But Berkeley, every person who

picture? But Berkeley, every person who might win a Nobel Prize, they send a photographer that night to be on their porch.

>> So, uh, she was somebody who grew up in Hawaii and she was kind of told, "Girls don't do science." How did she get so interested in science?

>> Well, you know, as I said, everybody I've written about was a bit of a misfit, believe it or not. a tall,

gangly blonde uh uh you know uh uh American girl growing up in Elo, Hawaii, which is all Polynesian. She felt an outsider. She decides she loves the

outsider. She decides she loves the snapping grass and all the wonders of nature in Hawaii. And she tells her high school guidance counselor, I want to be

a scientist. And he said, girls don't do

a scientist. And he said, girls don't do science. And that's great because then

science. And that's great because then she did. So, uh, another person you

she did. So, uh, another person you wrote a book about, uh, that got a lot of attention was a person named Elon Musk.

>> Another person whose childhood was a bit >> So, uh, how did you get access to Elon Musk and he did he let you do what Steve Jobs let you do? Just wander around with him?

>> I was at a friend's house, my wife and I, uh, and, uh, a mutual friend said, you know, you should do Elon Musk. I'd

met him a few times. He did, he did seem to fit in the pattern. He was taking us into space. He was taking us into the

into space. He was taking us into the era of electric vehicles doing artificial intelligence. So it seemed so

artificial intelligence. So it seemed so we had a phone conversation that lasted a little bit more than an hour and we went through all the things and we was talking about what he did and I said

well look here's the deal I made with Steve Jobs. I get total access to you.

Steve Jobs. I get total access to you.

It's not just based on interviews. I can

be in any meeting by your side day and night. Get a trailer in Bokhica, Texas

night. Get a trailer in Bokhica, Texas next to your house. He went uhhuh. And

then I said, "And the second part is you have no control. You don't get to read the book." He goes, "Uh-huh." So I go

the book." He goes, "Uh-huh." So I go downstairs, you know, friends were all there and I'm thinking about this. And

suddenly somebody says, "Oh my god, you're writing a biography of Elon Mus."

I said, "What do you mean?" He says, "Elon just tweeted out, Walter's writing my biography." I thought, "Okay, now

my biography." I thought, "Okay, now I've got the tiger by the tail. I might

as well do it."

>> So how many years did you spend trailing him?

>> About three years. And uh the good thing was he put nothing off limits.

>> So how many companies can he run at one time? I I'm always amazed how he could

time? I I'm always amazed how he could be the CEO and the founder of so many companies. Were you amazed he could go

companies. Were you amazed he could go from one to another to another and without missing a beat.

>> People call him a multitasker and that's wrong. What he is is a serial tasker who

wrong. What he is is a serial tasker who like Napoleon knows there's a detail on the battlefield that needs my attention and goes right there. So even the night that the Twitter board accepted his

offer and he's going to suddenly buy Twitter. The world's going nuts about

Twitter. The world's going nuts about it. We're flying to Bokeh Chica, which

it. We're flying to Bokeh Chica, which is where SpaceX is, and he goes into the conference room and everybody said there's like 20 people in there. He just

bought 20.

All he is is focusing on the Raptor engine and the wiring and the need for a heat shield in the Raptor engine and spends more than an hour deeply focused

on that and then suddenly switches attention once that meeting is over to full self-driving problem they're having and then to a problem at Twitter. So he

just hour by hour serially focuses.

>> Is his skill set that he's smarter than everybody else or that he's just able to juggle so many different things at once?

What would you say his great genius is?

>> His genius is in material science and understanding exactly why Inganell shouldn't be the head of on the raptor engine skill and in manufacturing

things. Steve Jobs was brilliant at

things. Steve Jobs was brilliant at going around the design studio and saying, "Hey, let's make the curves on this iPhone this way." But then they tossed it over the ocean to China to

have it built. Musk believes that if you're not manufacturing your own things, you're not able to iterate day after day. So SpaceX, Tesla, they're

after day. So SpaceX, Tesla, they're building the big factories. That's part

of his genius.

>> Now, you finished the book before he went into the government to run Doge.

Were you surprised he decided he would go into government?

>> He was in the book, as you know, he's furious about Biden not inviting him to the electric vehicle summit, his daughter having transitioned and he thinks it's all woke mind virus, all

these things. So, I watch him move from

these things. So, I watch him move from being an Obama supporter to being uh very anti-woke, very populist, right?

And I knew that he wanted to go into government. It's a shame because had he

government. It's a shame because had he gone into government and focused on what he's good at, like gone to the Pentagon and saying, "This procurement cra

process is crazy or the way you're building the F-35 is nuts." or to do things like that. He could have changed the government for good. But instead,

unfortunately, he started, you know, let's get rid of this part of USAID and firing people. He was not suited to be

firing people. He was not suited to be in government.

>> You mentioned his complicated childhood.

It was a complicated relation with his father. Is that right?

father. Is that right?

>> To put it mildly. Yeah. his father, you know, when Elon got beaten up as a kid at school by bullies, he'd go home and his father said, "It's your fault.

You're useless. You're a loser." And

would make him stand in front of him for an hour and berate him. And his father, as more has come out recently, but some is in the book, has children by his own

stepdaughter. And so, it's that darkness

stepdaughter. And so, it's that darkness of Elon's childhood that gives him the drive, but also gives him the demons.

Now you're working on a book now on Madame Cury. Uh what has she done that

Madame Cury. Uh what has she done that is so distinctive?

>> Well, one of the great things we're talking about great archives is we also have her notebooks and nobody's really gone page by page through the archives and figuring out what did she do each

day. We all know she's Saint you know

day. We all know she's Saint you know Marie Cury. And the interesting thing is

Marie Cury. And the interesting thing is right around 1900 when we have Einstein as a patent clerk trying to figure out relativity and other things. She's the

person who best understands that chemistry is basically physics. It's how

the electrons are revolving, how they radiate. She comes up with the concept

radiate. She comes up with the concept of radioactivity, names it, discovers uh radium. And so that notion that's at the

radium. And so that notion that's at the core of the 20th century uh comes from Marie Curie.

>> Now she's the only person or the only woman to win two Nobel prizes in different categories.

>> She's the only person ever in history to win a Nobel in two different sciences.

>> And that book will come out in a year or so or two years.

>> A year or two. Yeah. You know, it's so much fun. And you know what you get to

much fun. And you know what you get to do? you get to go to Paris and the Cury

do? you get to go to Paris and the Cury archives are there in the six Aron dis so why would you rush it

>> so uh in between Elon Musk and Marie Cury you have just about to have a new book come out >> a small book that's almost a pamphlet like Thomas Payne's common sense but

it's called the greatest sentence ever written >> what is the greatest sentence ever written >> we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal and they're endowed brother created with

certain inalienable rights among them life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. 35 words that become our

happiness. 35 words that become our mission statement as a nation. And the

reason it's so important is it not only mission statement for us but for other countries as well.

>> Yes. Yes. And it forms the common ground for the American dream. And you can see how our founders I love going word by word through it because Jefferson writes

the first draft. He puts in we hold these truths to be sacred. Then we see Franklin cross it out with his printers pin and put self-evident because he wants it to be based on logic not

religion. You see endowed with

religion. You see endowed with inalienable rights and you see by their creator from John Adams. So even in the balancing of a half of a sentence you

see this ability to say the role of divine providence and the role of rationality in our nation and we've lost that ability to do balance. So, as we go

into the 250th, I would just hope everybody in the United States and around the world would just appreciate this sentence and maybe that would lower the temperature of our partisan divide.

>> Now, how did Jefferson say all men are created equal when he had more than 700 slaves in his life? It's a great contradiction embed or the tragic

contradiction embed in the founding of our nation because indeed he writes all men are created equal and when George Mason does it in the precursor document

the bill of rights of the rights of Virginia he puts when they enter into society but f but Jefferson just keeps all men are created equal it becomes a

forcing mechanism because as you know four score and seven years later get the Gettsburg Cemetery Lincoln refers to that sentence saying a nation dedicated

to the proposition that all men are created equal. So it becomes a forcing

created equal. So it becomes a forcing document to make us better.

>> What about women? How come he didn't say all men and women are >> well as you know Abigail Adams writes to John Adams who's on the drafting committee. What about don't forget the

committee. What about don't forget the ladies and John Adams writes we're not giving up our masculine rights. But the

cool thing about the sentence is that it wasn't a description or declaration of the way things were at the time. It was

the aspirational document. So you look at 249 and a half years since then. We

have expanded. What does it mean? Who's

included? Not just white male property owners, but over each generation, whether it's the 7,000 people killed at Gettysburg or the civil rights movement

with Dr. King, we expand that sentence to make it so that all people are part of that sentence.

>> Now, Adams was member of fivep person committee to draft the declaration. He

said to Jefferson, "You draft it. You're

more popular from Virginia and so forth.

I'm disliked." Adams would say about himself. But did Adams later resent the

himself. But did Adams later resent the fact that Jefferson got all this credit uh and he was the author of it as he said on his epitap, or did did Adams say, "Well, he deserves it."

>> No. Adams, of course, was resentful, as he was of Benjamin Franklin. He's was a great uh person, but he was kind of resentful. And he let Jefferson be the

resentful. And he let Jefferson be the drafter because Adams thought that Adams had done the most important thing, which

is on July 2nd, 1776, there's a motion to declare independence. And so Adams thought that for henceforth we'd be

celebrating July 2nd as our birthday.

And he was really annoyed. You can

explain why the first year afterwards they end up celebrating July 4th and Jefferson gets a credit.

>> Well, what happened was they in 1777 they were so busy working in the in the Continental Congress they forgot the date and they took them a day or two to get organized they said we'll celebrate

on July the 4th and for 50 years after that Adams and Jefferson desparred over whether what was more important the July the 2nd vote or the July the 4th declaration. One of the really poignant

declaration. One of the really poignant things though is 50 years after the signing of that declaration, John Adams

and Thomas Jefferson die on the same day and they had reconciled finally at the end and write some beautiful letters to each other.

>> People thought at the time that that was a sign of providence that basically these two great founders died within a couple hours of each other on on July the 4th, 50 years to the day. So all

these geniuses, if you could have dinner with any one of these geniuses, >> who would you want to have dinner with and why?

>> Well, Franklin would be the most fun. I

mean, he had big casts of ale and port and madiraa. When George Washington

and madiraa. When George Washington comes to Philadelphia, he opens his new dining room and he's a great rock and storyteller. But the most interesting

storyteller. But the most interesting dinner of course would be with Leonardo >> because he was doing so many >> Leonardo was the last person in history who I think knew everything you could

possibly know about everything that was knowable and saw the patterns that rippled across creation.

>> One thing we didn't mention about him is that he took a lot of dead bodies and cadaavvers and basically um dissected them so he could see how the body worked. Right. And he would dissect the

worked. Right. And he would dissect the face so he could see the nerves and muscles when he's painting the Mona Lisa.

>> But it wasn't legal to do that in some cases right?

>> Yeah. It was uh against the Catholic Church doctrine. He couldn't do it in

Church doctrine. He couldn't do it in Florence. I think he ends up uh in uh it

Florence. I think he ends up uh in uh it must have been Venice where he gets to do the >> So for people that want to be the next water Isac, write about geniuses or write so many different books while they

have other jobs, what would your advice be? Well, with all due respect to C-SPAN

be? Well, with all due respect to C-SPAN and everything else is don't watch a whole lot of TV and get the heck off of social media.

>> So, for example, when you're writing u somebody's emailing you, do you respond to the email right away or the text or do you just uh kind of hive yourself off and just say, "I'm writing for three hours." How many hours a day do you

hours." How many hours a day do you write before you stop?

>> I'm a night person, which helps. And one

secret about being a night person, you should marry a morning person. So, you

know, Kathy has her time in the morning and oh, bustling about and at 900 p.m.

she's tired. She's reading and I'll spend three or four hours starting at 9:00 p.m. where you get no distractions.

9:00 p.m. where you get no distractions.

>> And you write for a couple hours or you say, "I got to write a couple pages."

How do you do that?

>> I like writing. And people say, "How do you do it?" It's like golf. How do

people play three, four rounds of golf?

They love it. Well, I sit there and all the worries drain from every muscle in my body because I have a little mantra, a little slogan on my computer that

says, "Let me tell you a story." Because

whenever I get stumped, instead of trying to write some complicated analysis, I say, "What's the most interesting tale anecdote I can tell that will illustrate this?" Now, given all the number one bestsellers you've

written and the famous books, do you have an editor who actually still edits you or you don't need an editor at this point?

>> Well, I definitely had over the course of most of my career, Alice Mayhew, a legendary editor at Simon Schuster, who did Woodward and Bernstein, helped create the concept of all the uh

president's men. and Alice Mayhew in the

president's men. and Alice Mayhew in the very first book I wrote with a friend which was about six friends and the Cold War she kept writing in the margin a

tiga and it stood for all things in good time don't get ahead of the story don't get behind it keep it chronological I said Alice why she said if it's good enough of the good Lord doing the Bible

he has the best opening sentence in the beginning and so Alice is always in my head as my editor I now have another great editor Priscilla Payton.

>> Now, do you have people coming up to you from time to time at cocktail parties saying, "Well, I am a genius myself and you know, maybe you could write my biography." You get a lot of those.

biography." You get a lot of those.

>> They always say, "I am a I'm just like Einstein." I said, "What do you mean?"

Einstein." I said, "What do you mean?"

He said, "Well, I think out of the box, just like Einstein does." And I say, "Yeah, but he do what was in the box before he thought out of it." I do have a lot of people and uh this is not a

plug but with a group of my students at Tulain and others computer science we're creating a company called Boswell in company which you know students will

hear your story AI will help process it because I believe everyone deserves to have their story told. So, um, right now you gave up being the president of Aspen

Institute voluntarily. They would love

Institute voluntarily. They would love you to have stayed and you moved back to your hometown of of New Orleans and you teach at Tulain and you do other kinds of things and writing your books and so

forth. So, what is the greatest pleasure

forth. So, what is the greatest pleasure of your life? Writing the books, interviewing the people, being interviewed on C-SPAN, things like that.

>> It sound hokey.

I love my students. I love every Tuesdays and Thursdays. I teach a couple of courses, engaging with them, getting the energy and the feedback and especially in this troubled time to

watch them chew chew on what's happening.

I I never would have guessed how much fun it is to be at two lane with some really cool students.

>> Have you ever been interested in going into government service at any point?

>> Yeah, I was. And I never had that opportunity. you, if I'm going to be

opportunity. you, if I'm going to be honest, you look back on your life and you say, "Okay, what was it you could have done? Should I have run for mayor

have done? Should I have run for mayor of New Orleans because I love the city so much?" Uh, at one point there were a

so much?" Uh, at one point there were a couple of times I was asked to go into the White House once right when Steve Jobs was nearing the end, so I couldn't.

So, yeah, in life there's certain things you didn't get to do, but I really admire people who get into the arena.

>> Let's talk about your parents. Did they

see your success? your parents.

>> Yeah. You know, I talk about all the geniuses I've written about had these uh challenging misfit childhoods. For me,

it was the opposite, which is why I get to write about geniuses, but I'm not one myself, which is my father and mother were the nicest, most honorable, and

smartest people I ever met. And my

brother and I, I still live in New Orleans within about seven blocks of our Napoleon Avenue house where I grew up.

And it was just glorious to be in the most interesting city with the most loving parents. My father was an

loving parents. My father was an engineer which helped. And so we would do electric circuits in the basement and test uh vacuum tubes and stuff and he gave me my interest in science.

>> But did both of them or either of them live to see all your success?

>> Oh yeah, they both did. and uh they were very proud but they kept me grounded which is why it's good to be back in New Orleans which is you know I can brag that I was on C-SPAN and my friends and

I once I'll tell you a story about being on C-SPAN once we our 35 closest friends from high school >> have New Year's Eve together every time upstairs at Antoine. So, one night we

had this great New Year's Eve party and the next day after being bit hung over, one of my friends, I talked to him. He

says, "That's amazing. How did you go from the dinner to be?" I said, "What do you mean?" Said, "Well, when I got home

you mean?" Said, "Well, when I got home all drunk, I turned on C-SPAN and there you were." And I said, "Oh, no. That was

you were." And I said, "Oh, no. That was

pre-recorded. In New Orleans, they don't understand the virtues of videotape."

>> Some people have said there's another genius that you should write about, and that would be an autobiography that you would write about your life. Have you

considered that?

>> You know, those of us who write about people in the arena should not fall prey to the conceit that we're also in the arena ourselves.

Someday I'll get my little Boswell in company and write a little memoir for my family. But no, I've uh I'd resist

family. But no, I've uh I'd resist thinking that it's like Boswell, you know, the biography of Dr. Johnson.

Somebody actually wrote an okay biography of Boswell, but you don't care about Boswell. you care about the people

about Boswell. you care about the people who are in the arena.

>> So, had you not become a journalist um and a executive, do you think you might have ever gone into something important like private equity or >> Yeah. Right. No, I always The Carlile

>> Yeah. Right. No, I always The Carlile Group hadn't been invented yet. Um

I when I graduated from college I had studied John Lockach and philosophy at uh Harvard and then Oxford and I thought I actually wanted to be an academic

philosopher but I also had worked for the times picky in New Orleans and stuff and I went back to see my old philosophy professors at Harvard and said I'm trying to decide here's my thesis on

lock uh whether I should become an academic or whether I should be a journalist and both of them said to me you would make a great journalist.

>> So, any regrets so far about your career? You seem to have a career that

career? You seem to have a career that everybody would be envious of. Um,

you've run a lot of big organizations successfully. You've written

successfully. You've written bestsellers, all number one bestsellers.

Any regrets? Anything you wish I had you had done but you haven't done yet?

>> Oh, yeah. There things I could have done and couldn't been in government, whatever. However, I think it's very

whatever. However, I think it's very important every day to wake up in every hour to make yourself think how grateful you are. I think a problem we have in

you are. I think a problem we have in our society is people have chips on their shoulder. They're resentful. Well,

their shoulder. They're resentful. Well,

yeah, there's a lot of reasons you can be resentful. But if you wake up each

be resentful. But if you wake up each day and say, "My goodness, I have gratitude. I was born in the best zip

gratitude. I was born in the best zip code, in the best city, in the best country, at the best time with and there's always something you should be grateful for. And I think you're not

grateful for. And I think you're not going to be happy unless you treat you keep saying to yourself, boy, am I a lucky person." Now, you have a daughter.

lucky person." Now, you have a daughter.

Uh, is it hard to be the only child of a famous writer and and person like you?

And what does she do?

>> Uh, she works for a newsletter and journalism thing, but she uh always says, "Oh, dad, dad, dad." You know, she I don't think she likes me hovering.

>> She's she's a wonderful kid.

>> She must be impressed with what you've achieved. And her friends come over and

achieved. And her friends come over and want to meet me.

>> She must be impressed by what I achieved, but she's smart enough not to let me know it. I got it. Well, look,

uh, very impressive what you've, uh, achieved, and I want to thank you for being with us today and letting us hear about your their life story, which is quite impressive. And, uh, we look

quite impressive. And, uh, we look forward to reading your new book, The Greatest Sentence Ever Written. And, um,

then we'll read about Marie Cury certainly as well. Right.

>> Thank you so much.

>> And then after that, when we will have another one, right?

>> I don't know. I don't know. Well, yeah,

there'll always be somebody. It's always

something some interesting story to tell. Thanks very much, Walter.

tell. Thanks very much, Walter.

>> Thank you, David. [applause]

Walter Isacson and David Rubenstein viewed the Declaration of Independence and the [music] Constitution in the rotunda of the National Archives.

Now, this is the original copy of the Declaration of Independence. It's

[music] faded beyond recognition. The

reason is it was it was uh folded up many times um and put in storage when the British were invading in 1814.

[music] Uh this was put together in a package and it was uh buried in Leburg, Virginia, hiding it from the British.

>> Ultimately, it was put on display at the patent office for about 30 years in a row and faded a lot. um ultimately um you know it was decided that we would

have perfect copies made so replicas were made. This was not signed on July

were made. This was not signed on July the 4th despite the fact it was agreed to on July the 4th because on July the 4th uh the British were invading and controlling New York

>> and therefore the New York delegation couldn't come to vote for this. [music]

So they said here's what we'll do. We

want to get it in gross copy, clean up every the text. We'll get it in gross copy and then we'll have the delegates come back in in early August. It was

[music] signed between August 2, 3, and four when delegates came back to sign it. And signing it was not that easy a

it. And signing it was not that easy a thing to do because it was [music] treason.

>> Mhm.

>> So when they adopted the document on July the 4th, nobody's name went on it.

So nobody was had committed treason [music] publicly. The British didn't

[music] publicly. The British didn't know who signed it. When they came back in August, they did sign it, but it wasn't released publicly until I think January of the subsequent year because there had been some [music] victories

and maybe people thought it wasn't so likely that the [clears throat] United States would lose. But anyway, it wasn't reveal revealed publicly until I think about January of 1770 uh 1777.

This [music] is amazing. And these are the most profound three words you can imagine beginning a document with which is we the people. Because for the first

time it was a contract that [music] wasn't the rights come from conquest or for tribalism or from the divine right of kings. It's we the people.

of kings. It's we the people.

>> Now that wasn't the original draft though when they were thinking about it.

They had I think they were saying we the people of the states or we the [music] states >> and then they came out of a committee.

They had a committee that that was supposed to clean up all the parts and it came back from the committee uh we the [music] people.

>> It's one of the natural tensions that's a glorious tension in American life which is to what extent we're a democracy of the people and to what extent we're a federation of states and of course they were wrestling with it

back then and we're still wrestling with it now. But [music] they begin the

it now. But [music] they begin the document with we the people and it just means every citizen, not every [music] person, but mainly white male uh land

owners. But eventually that gets

owners. But eventually that gets expanded and [music] we the people becomes an expansive concept that more and more people, women, [music] blacks,

minorities all get included into.

See more with Walter Isaxson in the Rotunda of the National Archives on America's Book Club, The Treasures, available at c-ban.org/ABC

and C-SPAN's YouTube page.