App Mafia: Young Entrepreneurs Making $3,000,000/Month With AI Apps (Cal AI & Quittr)

How often do you goon?

I've been gooning multiple times a week

since I was 16. It does bring some

mental clarity.

Yeah,

I just [ __ ] go to the gym, get back

home, eat, and I'm like, "Fuck, I want

to crank when I'm feeling horny." And

then I'm just And then I hop on [ __ ]

stream and I'm [ __ ] firing.

Any person with access to the internet

nowadays and see more beautiful naked 10

out of 10 women than any of the greatest

kings throughout all of human history

combined. Probably.

That's insane.

Wild. Mr. Beast, you've gone to the

[ __ ] beast to do an ad. Yeah, it's

pretty cool.

That's insane. You probably can't share

how much you paid.

No, I can share. We might have to blur

it.

Over 500,000.

That's [ __ ] insane.

[Music]

All right. All right. All right. What's

up, fam? Welcome back to another episode

of TSL Time Podcast. Today, we got a

different type of guest, very special

guest. We got the the App Mafia. We got

Blake and Alex from App Mafia. This is

uh Alex, right?

Yeah.

Okay. My bad. My bad. Um yeah, this is

this is the new age PayPal mafia. Um if

you guys have seen the app Calai,

Twitter UMAX RZGPT

and which was the other one,

those are the main four, but the main

four, you know, within the app, Mafia,

we also have the founder of NGL, Bags

app, which is the crypto trading app,

and then uh a number of others as well.

Yeah.

And you're 18.

I'm 19.

24. And these [ __ ] are printing

millions of dollars off insane apps

that, you know, use AI to really help a

lot of young guys um look better, feel

better, get more girls, quit jerking

off, count counting their calories. Um

and honestly, I mean, if you haven't

seen their ads and their product on

social media, you're probably living

under a [ __ ] rock because they just

did an ad with Mr. Beast. Um they're

everywhere. They're killing it. And I

mean this is a you know I haven't never

sat down with you know individuals in

tech or in apps but this it's so

interesting to me so I thought why not

bring them on today um ask them some

pressing questions about what they've

built and understand how the [ __ ]

they're doing what they're doing. So

thank you guys so much for coming on. Um

how we doing? How we feeling?

Doing well. Thanks for having us.

Yeah. Amazing. Can't wait to get into

it.

We've been fans of your podcast and your

content for a long time. So we love this

sort of tech uh crossover into uh into

your usual content.

Yeah. I think I think the audience is

going to learn a lot about this kind of

wealth of the internet that no one sees.

So very excited to share.

Honestly, I think that it's like the

most underrepresented industry on social

media. Everybody knows about social

media marketing and day trading and UGC

and dropshipping, but nobody really

knows about scaling consumer apps. And

it's uh it's going to be exciting to

share that.

And building them, too, which is [ __ ]

insane. And I mean you guys too, your

your your biggest platform at least

where you spend most of your time social

media wise is Twitter.

100%. That's where all the uh sort of

tech people are.

Yeah, that's that's where the tech

bubble is. But like I think our plan

over the next six months is to bring

this kind of concept to the masses with

that mafia and like spread awareness. Um

like we've done a bunch of news articles

and people are mind-b blown about what

we've achieved. Um but again like no one

in short form really knows who we are.

So we're going to try and break that

mold, escape the bubble. Yeah, it's

probably sometimes hard for for the tech

guys to get on to like the brain rot

algorithm and and you know bind like we

were talking about it before. It's like

the methodical thinking versus like this

like social media world that we're in

now. It's hard to find that crossover

but I think we're going to do a great

job to uh you know chatting about that

today which should be awesome. So you

just moved to Miami, right?

Yeah, we both did. We

both you guys live together.

Yeah. Yeah. We've got the two of us,

Zach Connor and Hunter. Um

this is the app mafia.

This is the app mafia. And uh we'll talk

more about, you know, exactly what we're

doing, but we're planning to launch a uh

a course teaching people how to scale

apps as we have. To be honest, like we

really don't need the money. The main

reason that we're doing it is as a lever

on our personal brand. We're just going

to take all the money and use it to

invest into the ops, videography, house,

fun events, uh marketing for for App

Mafia in order to scale our personal

brands, which will then be able to use

for hiring, distribution, amongst other

things for our future businesses.

Yeah. And we're like assembling all the

right pieces. Like the house we have is

$10 million. Blake,

how much you guys paying for that house

per month?

$40,000.

Yeah.

Yeah. You can pop You sent me a picture

of the house the other day. Pop pop a

picture of the house real quick. These

guys have the [ __ ] compound and it's

it's near uh Opaaka, right?

It's in Pinerest. I don't know where

Opalaka is.

Pinerest.

And then Yeah. Yeah. And then Blake just

bought a Ferrari 296 GTS. Put that up on

the screen.

500 about 450K. All cash. So

crazy. Zach just bought a Lamborghini

Huracan.

All cash.

Yeah, all cash. I'm going to get a Lambo

very soon.

You guys are [ __ ] This This is

dangerous. Too much motion.

It is, dude. It's dangerous. It'll be a

fun fun next year.

100%. There's no way we don't go super

viral. Like we have all we have all the

right pieces. There's just no way.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the 100%. You

definitely have the right pieces. I

mean, you know, super cars can get you

lots of views for sure. Um I mean, you

guys are already going super viral from

like the product standpoint, but

yourselves, I think, you know, living

all together, having the camera rolling

and showing more people of like what's

going on back there, it would blow my

mind if if people wouldn't be

interested. But with that with with that

being said, I know I want to I want to

jump into the apps afterwards and I want

to jump into, you know, this course you

guys are going to be building, which

honestly it's pretty funny. You even

you're fully transparent on like this is

what's going to fund a lot of our

operations now even though you're

already making a ton of [ __ ] money.

But how did you guys like where did

where did it start for you guys? Like

did you study software engineering? Did

you just get into it once Chad GBT came

out? Like what's the background? How did

you end up here?

I'll give you a story.

Yeah. Yeah, I'll give my background. So

I went to Twolane. I majored in finance.

I took some CS classes, but like I never

really learned how to code. Um, by

senior year, I built a college

marketplace app. I wasn't the one that

coded it. We had a CTO, but I built it

with um, two of my friends at school.

And we launched and, you know, it didn't

really do anything. Social apps are very

hard to scale. I do not recommend

building social apps, especially if

you're a firsttime founder.

Sorry to cut you off. When you say

social app, do you mean like a like an

Instagram type of app?

Yeah, an app where social apps are apps

where you're interacting with other

users on the platform. So, this was a

college marketplace app. So, you could

list your clothing or your furniture or

whatever it is to sell to other students

on campus. The thesis there was like

people aren't really using Facebook

anymore. I didn't even have a Facebook

account. So, most people didn't want to

use Facebook Marketplace. So, there were

these group memes where guys and girls

are buying and selling used items. So,

we launched that senior year, senior

spring, and it kind of flopped. We got

some users, but like we weren't making

any money, and the summer's coming

around. I graduate, and I'm like, man, I

got to figure out how to make some

money. My parents don't have too much.

And so, I move back home. My brother's

giving me loans for groceries. Like, all

right, what what can I build? And at the

time, AI had just come out, right? Chat

GPT came out in November, December 2022.

And I had become obsessed with it.

And so we were thinking about

relaunching this college marketplace app

in the fall, but I'm like,

I don't really feel it. Like gut is

telling me no. So I'm I'm scrolling on

social media and I find this niche which

is like people showing off their RZ on

dating apps and immediately it clicks.

I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] there's a perfect

opportunity here to build an app that

helps guys on dating apps." I had a

roommate that's always using Hinge and

whatnot being like, "Yo, what should I

say to this girl?" And it was obvious to

me that Chat GBD could provide the

response. So, I start to go search it up

on the app store and there aren't really

any apps that are doing it successfully.

So, I started talking to Chat GBT. I'm

like, "Hey, I've got this idea. How do I

will it into reality?" It's telling me,

"Okay, you're going to want to use Swift

UI. Here's how you set up an API call to

chatbt. here's how you do all these

different things. And this was kind of

like the early stages of vibe coding.

Vibe coding is a very popular term

nowadays. But, you know, there wasn't

cursor. There weren't these idees that

were specifically designed for it. It

was just me talking to Chad GPT,

learning about how to code, and then

pasting that into Xcode, which is the uh

code editor. Ended up building this this

product. Within a few weeks, we launched

and went [ __ ] nuclear off the jump.

$80,000 MR. So, it's monthly recurring

revenue. Within about three days, within

three months, we're doing 250K a month.

Um,

and the boys are getting laid.

Boys are getting laid. Boys are boys are

making a lot of [ __ ] money. We're all

just like mind blown. We're like, "What

the [ __ ] is happening right here?" We

had never had any real success.

Yeah. I feel like you stumbled upon like

a brand new industry.

Brand new industry. the first

the first

and this was like this was no because

Jad GBT launched November of 2022

and the day that [ __ ] came out you were

already having these conversations with

so I was talking to Jad GPT but uh by

the time we launched this product it was

like June right

okay so about 5 months later

so I I'd been using Jad GPT like

learning how it actually works so I'd

kind of had like uh some understanding

of its capabilities and limitations

which made it a lot easier for me to

learn how to code with it fast forward

to the summer so we launched goes

nuclear we ended renaming to plug AAI.

So if you search it up now, it' be named

Plug AI, not RZ GPT.

How did you do that, by the way?

Uh lawsuit from a company that had

already been using the term RZ. But they

had like no traction, you know. Um they

just started copying our marketing

techniques. But quick summary here, like

the reason that we were able to go so

viral was we took the dropshipping um

sort of organic content strategy using

these sort of underground influencers,

UGC, whatever it may be. We applied it

to AI apps. Around this time, we start

to flatline at 250k a month. I see the

looks maxing start to take over. And I'm

like, "Holy [ __ ] here's another

opportunity." The vision API, so the

ability to analyze an image was about to

come out. So, I built the entire app

where you can take a picture of your

face, get ratings and recommendations on

how you can become more attractive.

Second, the Vision API drops, I plug it

in, we launch, we rip. Um, and then I

think within about a month and a half to

two months, we're at $700,000 in monthly

revenue.

That's outrageous with I mean, I mean,

just give or take like the margin on on

these because aren't don't you have to

pay a large fee of check for using their

data?

No, no, no. The API costs are marginal.

It's mostly Apple takes 30%, influencers

are generally around 30 to 40%. and then

you know team as you begin to scale but

every app that I've built has been

greater than 30% profit margin. Um so

you know it's like $700,000 a month in

revenue but we're taking home over 200k

a month profit.

Yeah. Um,

so from RZ GPT

helping guys put a screenshot of their

hinge conversation or Tinder

conversation to

then getting guidance on how to approach

the next message with the girl

to then seeing that this looks maxing is

going crazy on Tik Tok and Instagram and

you know everybody wants to look better

with their [ __ ] what's it called? The

jawline and the eyebrow thing. The

mewing

is massive.

The mewing the [ __ ] what's me? You

put your tongue to the top of your

mouth.

Yeah.

Um Yeah. Yeah. Mew. I I think I think I

think I went like 30 minutes once

mewing. Um

I can tell.

Um wow, that's so crazy. I mean, dude,

because to be honest, I would get pretty

pissed sometimes like with some of these

like looks maxers and [ __ ] cuz I was

just like, bro, Jesus Christ, like just

go to the gym and eat healthy and

[ __ ] sleep facing up and drink water

and like you'll probably start looking

better in two, three months.

If you look at the recommendations that

we provide in the UMAX app, you if you

scan your face, you'll see the

recommendations. It's pretty much like

eat healthy, go to the gym, drink more

water, wash your face. We're not

recommending these crazy [ __ ]

techniques. Like, we don't talk about

mewing in there. We're not talking about

bone smashing. We don't recommend

hormones. None of that. None of that,

dude. People perform smashing,

bro. So, that you take a hammer and you

like [ __ ] hit your hit your cheekbone

to supposedly stimulate bone growth.

People are performing self surgery, you

know? Like, I don't

I've never done any of that. I've never

recommended any of it. That's not why I

built the product.

And that's and that's that's the most

interesting uh interesting thing to me

is that there's like a million [ __ ]

kids out there who are just like, "Let

me look smack. Let me look smack. Let me

bone smash. Let me quit jerking. Let me

do all this different shit." And then

you were like, "Oh,

look at that big ass [ __ ] apple to

pick."

Yeah.

How can I make a product that's going to

[ __ ] do this for everybody? And I'm

sure and we're we're going to talk right

now about, you know, um that how you got

started as well. That's [ __ ] insane.

But so sorry to cut you off. So then we

go to we go to UMAX.

Yeah. So So I'll finish off this story

pretty quickly. So UMAX starts hitting.

I get a DM from a 16-year-old at the

time, Zach Yadagari. He saw RZ GPT and

UMAX. He's like, "Dude, I love your

apps. I want to build something with

you." Like, "Yeah, I don't know. We'll

see. We'll stay in contact." I keep

talking to him. I'm like, "Holy [ __ ]

this kid's a wizard. So smart, so

mature. Sold a website for over 100K at

the age of 16." And eventually he sends

me a list of ideas. He's like, "Let's

build something." And I see the AI

calorie tracker. I'm like, "That's the

one." So we build Cali together. Cali

wasn't as like immediate success as uh

Ridge GPT and UMAX but man the ceiling

has been so much higher. Um you know now

today we're at over 300 three excuse me

$3.5 million a month in revenue helping

millions and millions of people lose

weight just in Mr. Beast episode. But to

go back a little bit, right after we

launched, Alex and Zach met each other,

and I think this is where Alex can kind

of take over on his side.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'll kind of build

my story off of that,

of course.

So, about a year and a half ago, I was

completely broke. Um, and I was

traveling the States trying to get

inspired, trying to make [ __ ] happen. I

was in San Francisco, didn't enjoy it. I

was like, "Okay, [ __ ] it. I've got no

money. I might as well just fly to

Miami. Let's visit the States." Start

like ticking things off my bucket list.

So, I fly to Miami

at 18.

Yeah, 18. I had, I think, maybe $500

left in my account. I sneak into this

hotel uh called the Fountain Blue. I'm

sure you know the Fountain Blue.

While I was there, I was like, "Okay,

bro. Like, I'm alone. I've got no

money." And I see this like really fat

kid walking around like wearing chrome

hearts. I'm like, "All right, [ __ ] it.

I'm just going to approach this guy."

So, I start walking up to him. And then

in the back of my mind, I'm like,

"Should I approach him? Like, am I going

to should I just say face and walk away

or should I just approach this like

random American kid that looks like a

[ __ ] bully? Whatever. I approach I

decide to approach and I go, "What's up,

boys? Like, you guys want to get dinner?

Like, what are some good places?" Um, in

that group was Zach Gallagari

to get real quick. Zach was not the fat

kid.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Zach was not The

fat kid was a friend of Zack, but Zach

was in that group. Um, and then yeah,

like they were very kind to me. they

were about to leave the pool like uh

someone delayed it by two minutes but if

they delayed it by if they didn't delay

it by two minutes I would have never met

him and I would never be here today so

it's a pretty crazy story but anyways we

went out to a steakhouse uh Smith Winski

we started talking about startups and

businesses and stuff like that we we

kind of connected on that level because

there was no one else our age kind of

doing that stuff um I lied to him and

said I was a teal fellow

a what

a teal fellow so Peter Thiel was a

founder of

and then he has the foundation and then

I lied. It's like a very low acceptance

rate and I said I was part of it. Um,

so before that though like what was your

background though with business and

everything like that to get you like to

even know about like Peter Teal and like

the fellows and all this stuff?

Yeah. So

I've always wanted to build things and

you know I'm from the UK and of course

like people aren't really entrepreneurs

out there. They're very close-minded. I

ended up taking a trip to New York when

I was 17 on my own and was like okay

holy [ __ ] this is like the real life. I

need to be out here. Um, so I dropped

out of school, started learning about

startups. I tried to raise $100 million

preede of my first idea. I was like,

"Fuck it." Like, I'm going to be a

billionaire. I was on this earth for a

reason. I'm going to raise $100 million.

I'm going to compete with Facebook. I'm

going to build the WeChat chat of

America

and it flopped.

It [ __ ] up. That's That's awesome,

though. [ __ ] dream big, you know?

Yeah. And then I was very humbled. Did

my tour, ended up in Miami, met Zach,

and then So, this is what happened. This

is funny, but I don't know if you know

this. So me and Zach started talking a

lot more. He started telling me about

you. He was like, "Yo, there's this guy

making 200k a month. Like he's [ __ ]

crazy. His name's Blake Anderson. It's

like, you know, the UMAX app. He's

printing cash." And I was like, "What?

200K a month?" Um, and yeah, like that

kind of went on for a bit. They ended up

working together launching Calai and

then I think they made 40K, 100K, and I

was like, "Holy shit."

And it was it was just doubling month

over month. First month 50k, second

month 100k, third month 200k, 400k, and

it was like every month we just doubled

and doubled and doubled.

Exactly. But so this is why why it hit

me the most cuz I was with Zach at the

[ __ ] beginning. Like I saw this [ __ ]

go from nothing to to something and I

was like, I can do this too. Like I

genuinely can. So I used that as proof

as possible and then launched Quitter

which helps guys stop jerking off and

stop watching porn. We have a million

downloads now. We do half a million

dollars a month.

So yeah, like

[ __ ] insane.

Zoom forward a year. It's crazy how much

changed. I

I think like the thing that like really

just intrigues me so much is that like

the internet has painted this picture

that like I mean and it makes just

sense. There's so many [ __ ] scammers

out there. There's so many kids who are

just like actually renting the cars and

actually getting the Airbnbs in Bickl

and like actually [ __ ] just lying

about everything. But then there's like

a pool of like [ __ ] killers who are

like you're actually in your early 20s

and you're actually making millions of

dollars a month and like you guys you

know are part of that pool. You know my

friend TJR of course I've never spoken

to Brad but he's doing it. There's a lot

of people doing it.

Yeah.

And there's ways to do it and it's and

it's [ __ ] crazy. So like that's

that's nuts.

If I can before I cut you off Blake,

I think there are very small pool of

people that are actually making money

while also contributing to society. I

don't think crypto is very impressive at

all. I don't think core selling is very

impressive at all. I do admire how much

traction they've built in their personal

brands, but like I feel like we're like

some of the only people that actually

are doing something big.

Yeah.

And real and tangible. It's very very

egotistical, but like I'd have to agree

from the perspective of you know how

many of these people that are making

money online um outside of the sort of

social media bubble can say that

millions if not hundreds of millions of

people are aware of and use their

products, you know. Um, and this isn't

to to to talk [ __ ] on the people that

that haven't built, you know,

verifiable, legit companies that that

many people are using because I I I do

think that anyone that's participating

in the economy is generally actually

adding to to it. I'm a big believer in

capitalism, but like our shit's so

verifiable. It's like you can search up

the revenue. There are public databases

such as Sensor Tower. You can go up and

you can search up our companies. You can

see how much we're making. We're [ __ ]

Mr. beast videos, you know, like I don't

think that you can always say the same

about people that are, you know, um, you

know, maybe have like these sort of like

backend social media marketing agencies

where it's all smok and mirrors and you

don't actually know, uh, you know, sort

of how

info

is out there.

Yeah. Yeah.

And and it's like I told you before,

like what I saw, what I read online, um,

well, first of all, I mean, that's

insane. Congrats on the success with

Twitter. I I hadn't read seen those

numbers of like half a million a month.

That's crazy. I saw that Cali did

[ __ ] you know, upwards of $3 million

a month.

Yeah. you know, in the last month. And

then Fitness Pal that's been around for

16 years, did 13 million in the last

month. And that like you've been in

around Cali has been around for a year,

right? So, I mean, that that's just

[ __ ] insanity. You know, the level of

growth that we're seeing right now. You

think it's you think it's [ __ ] up your

your your perspective a bit on like

because I feel like, you know, slow

growth is the be best growth and if

there's one thing we've seen with AI is

hyperbolic growth. So, do you think, you

know, like you said, you were broke

whatever two years ago or however long

it was, and now your your company's

doing half a million a month, and and

and it's real. And same goes for you.

Has it how has that changed your

perspective on just how you go about

life?

Honestly,

bought a Ferrari a [ __ ] month ago.

Yeah.

Um, you know, I think that the major

takeaway I've had is making the correct

macro decisions, right? Right. So if we

analyze the difference in you know sort

of um a career path that I have taken

versus like the route that I could have

gone I could have gone the safe route of

getting a job in finance right I was a

finance major and grinding and slaving

away to make you know hundred maybe a

little bit over $100,000 a year. Um but

instead I think that I made the better

macro decision which was okay AI is has

created all of this opportunity within

the consumer um consumer economy as well

as enterprise economy. Uh and social

media is making distribution easier than

ever before. So you can kind of merge

these two growing industries and

position yourself in a way that you know

the path wasn't obvious when I first

took uh you know started building these

apps but in retrospect it's extremely

obvious and one of the reasons that

we're building at Mafia is because

there's still so much opportunity to

take AI and help solve people's problems

right um AI just enables us to to craft

completely new sort of products that

were not possible just a a few years ago

and to do it as an individual or as a

team of two

and like yeah I think that it's really

impacted the the how I view life and the

economy but more than anything it's

indicated to me that like you just got

to understand the macro trends and then

position yourself accordingly and the

upside is near infinite.

Yeah, I mean that's good. I mean it's I

definitely like just from like the last

30 minutes and chatting with you guys

before we're getting coffee like

definitely still seem grounded. You know

what I

that much money,

you know?

Yeah, I agree. I don't know. I feel this

the entire group like we're almost very

numb to the numbers. It's like there is

so much more to the mission. The mission

is like I'll share a little bit about

me. My end goal is like get into

politics or like run a country.

His in his Twitter bio since before he

was like really successful at all said

future prime minister of the UK.

Yeah. Yeah.

Really?

Yeah.

So, when you put that in perspective and

you're like, "Oh, half a million a

month." And then you got to pay the team

and then ad why would you want to become

a prime minister of a country?

I don't know. Maybe I just like the

power or I feel like I can contribute

bright ideas shape an economy that's

extremely tangible. Like I feel the

power of money runs out at a certain

point. I think we all view money as just

an abstraction of power and resources.

You know, it's just a lever on the

ability to do interesting cool things.

It's easy to get hedonistic with it,

right? money enables partying and girls

and all this fun [ __ ] and like it's

great. You should indulge. It's fun.

But, you know, uh I think that as a

group we all share the belief that we're

like, you know, uh we're not we're not

in it for the money. We're in it for the

sort of uh influence. Yeah, that's

interesting that you say power, you

know, that's that's that's a crazy

that's a pretty crazy [ __ ] concept to

be quite honest of just like because you

think of control and stuff like that and

then you think of AI and a lot of times

like we think of like, oh, is AI going

to get so powerful that it can [ __ ]

control us?

Do you think this

I I don't I don't know, dude. To be

honest, it's like for me it's like I'm

not kidding. I have been I'm like I've

been pretty pessimistic on like society

as a whole as like how separated people

have become and like how [ __ ] up

politics have become especially here in

the US and just like where things are

at. Like I see my cousins at like 5

years old like going on an iPad and [ __ ]

and like getting [ __ ] up and that's

not their fault, right? That's your

parents fault and all that. But as soon

as like chat GBT launched and I know and

I'm not a tech guy and I saw what was

happening with AI like it got me so

excited. I was like this is the coolest

thing I've ever seen in my [ __ ] life.

I spend [ __ ] 20 30 minutes talking to

Chad GBT every day. It knows me. It

knows my content. I can speak to it and

it [ __ ] has it's insane. Like, it's

insane. It's mind-blowing, bro. Like, I

feel like we haven't experienced

something like this mind-blowing in so

[ __ ] long, you know? And like I told

you guys before, it's like one of the re

like when I started Daddy Wellness again

in in 2023.

Initially, it was because I went on Chad

GBT and the first thing I did was ask it

help me make a meal plan. Let me see a

workout plan. Like, this is going to

change the game for people who want to

get healthy, which was what changed my

life. I did it without AI. You know, I

would build my own workout plans.

Dude, it's incredible. Everybody has a

personal trainer at their fingertips,

100% free. Like, I think it is the most

amazing technology to ever grace human

existence.

It's the craziest thing I've ever seen.

So, to your point, am I scared or

anything like that? Um, I don't know.

I'm not going to [ __ ] I'm not going

to spend time thinking about that. It's

going to do its thing and I'm just going

to try and use it to my advantage.

Do you want to talk about the

diminishing returns on

Yeah. Like I I I do think I I totally

agree with everything you just said and

I think that there's a lot of a lot of

people are fearful of AI cuz they're

like what the [ __ ] is going to what's

the world going to look like? What what

is the political economic state of the

world going to look like 10 years from

now when we see this continued rapid

progression of AI? But personally like

you know I think I don't I don't think

that it's uh I don't think it's as

dangerous as as most people believe. I

think that like the psychological

component is very real as individuals

become increasingly dependent on it.

Like that's something that we're going

to have to manage. But in terms of it

like you know there's this classic trope

or framework in the tech world which is

like p doom, right? Probability that AI

destroys civilization. I don't know I

put that very close to zero.

I don't think that it's progressing as

quickly as people think in terms of you

know there's still like these massive

problems that we have to solve.

continuous learning, context, right?

These are things that humans are still

significantly better than AI at. AI in

its current form is pretty much

commoditized general intelligence, but

in terms of like deep deep tech

progression, it I I haven't seen any

data that suggests that that it's going

to be replacing like human researchers

anytime soon.

Yeah.

More as an assistant for them rather

than like taking over, self-improving,

[ __ ] takes over the world.

We're kind of already uh

a limit of information that we've put

into training the models. I mean, it's

already scraped the entire internet.

So, like we're waiting around for more

information.

Synthetic data doesn't seem to be like

all that valuable in terms of like

you know uh the the at the frontier.

Yeah. I want to get into like

specifically quitter and cali. But

before we do that and you just mentioned

what was that term you use the doom of

AI like

P doom. Probability of doom. It's

probability that

p doom.

Yeah. P doom. It's p parenthesis doom.

If you I've taken statistics courses,

it's like P parenthesis some sort of

event is like the probability that this

event occurs is equal to and then some

constant value. So some researchers say

that their pdoom is 0.30 meaning 30%

chance that AI collapses human

civilization.

Okay.

Um

yeah. So when you say the word collapse,

will AI collapse human civilization?

That's that's a pretty [ __ ] bold way

to put it.

Well, this is this is a serious debate.

It's like if the US and China both have

super intelligent AI that are fighting

one another, what's the probability that

they have access to the nuclear codes

and then set them off and then we have

nuclear war and [ __ ] everything goes

up. May maybe the AI decides that it

doesn't like the human race and it

[ __ ] wipes out all of our uh

technological infrastructure, destroys

the power grids, whatever it may be.

See, that doesn't worry me. I don't

think that's going to [ __ ] happen by

by no means. What I do think, and this

is why I want to ask you that where I

really think the damage can happen is

like

Let's go back to RZG GBT. You know,

socializing and putting yourself out

there as a guy, girl, as a human and

interacting with other people is one of

the most like character developing

things you can do. It teaches you more

than probably most things, most things

you'll learn in college or anything like

that. having a [ __ ] AI

platform where you can ask it to answer

everything for you, how to communicate

with other people and people becoming

dependent on that that I think can

[ __ ] doom society. So, what are your

thoughts on that as someone you know

who's created products around this, you

know, how would what would you argue

against that? Yeah, it's a great

question and you know this is a sort of

classic argument that we're all familiar

with which is you can't use calculator

on the math test because then you're

never going to learn to multiply and I

would you know generally agree with the

premise that we should learn these

fundamental skills and yet at the same

time we still have math teachers to show

us uh and teach us elementary

mathematics right and I think that the

the the bull argument for AI is that we

see something similar with socialization

that a product like Riz GPT, we've

received feedback from hundreds if not

thousands of guys saying, "Man, seeing

how the AI recommends me to respond and

to find the correct level of flirtiness

yet also kindness and charisma has

enabled me to produce better responses

myself." Right? It serves as somewhat of

a coach.

Interesting.

Now, UMAX, we get similar critique. UMAX

I think gets a little bit more hate on

the basis of the fact that we provide

ratings of the individual's face but we

take or I specifically have taken the

precautions to ensure that this inspires

action as opposed to creates uh paral

paralyzing insecurity. So, we've created

a floor rating of 55 out of 99. And the

vast majority of individuals get their

overall rating of 70 or above. And then

we have their potential score, which is

always at least 5 to 10 points higher

than that overall. And then we provide

recommendations like if your face looks

chubby, go to the gym and, you know, eat

uh calorically less dense foods and wash

your face a little bit more. And so the

way that I view it is we're

democratizing access to higher quality

information and coaching so that people

can continue to improve themselves. I

would never advocate for a world in

which like everyone is [ __ ] overly

obsessed all the time with like what

their face rating is and all these

different things, but rather I view it

as like a it's a it's a tool for

self-improvement and self-development.

And we certainly have to balance that

with uh being comfortable in one's own

skin. But like I said, like with every

product that I build, I'm I'm all always

deeply thinking about how do we inspire

action without creating insecurity,

right? Yeah, that that's a great way to

put it. You know, you know, it's it's

definitely a tool and, you know, and

like everything, not everyone's gonna I

mean, there's always going to be some

people who who take it too far, you

know, and [ __ ] hyper obsess over a

certain thing and, you know, are [ __ ]

getting out getting on it with Chad GBT

247 and like maybe they never take that

test, you know, because they're so

[ __ ] you know, stuck in this loop of

of AI. That's at least at least,

you know, I I I would I would

my brain t I'm I'm skeptical about it.

You know what I mean? But I do think and

I hope um I don't know that more people

do use it as like a tool to [ __ ] take

those first steps to doing things

better, you know?

And I think the important component here

is education, right? It's like even this

podcast for example, like sharing the

message that you should use it as a tool

to accelerate your own growth and yet at

the same time recognize that if you

don't internalize

um a sort of internal locus of control

and believe that your life will be an

outcome of the choices that you make and

not just what is told to you, then

you're not going if you don't

internalize that, you're not going to

make that progress. And so, for example,

like we were talking about this with

vibe coding. Are you familiar with the

term vibe coding?

I'm not.

So vibe coding is essentially to some

extent what we do which is you use AI to

help you write code. Now there's one way

to do it which is you just tell the AI

what code you want and then you paste it

and if it doesn't work you tell it redo

it, paste it until it works. We don't

think that that's the right way to do

it. We think the right way to do it is

to use AI as your personal coding tutor.

Have it explain the principles to you.

Think about it, understand it, implement

it, rewrite the code yourself, and then

that will enable you to learn how to

code far more quickly than you would

without it. But on the flip side, if you

just copy and paste, you're not going to

learn anything at all.

And this is the approach you took to

build these multi-million dollar apps.

Yeah, we pretty much taught ourselves to

code by talking to chat GBT and saying

like, "Okay, explain what MVVM looks

like in Swift UI. Explain what proper

security systems look like for the back

end. Explain what an API call is.

explain what state management is. You

read it, you learn it, you implement it,

you iterate, you improve, and eventually

you know how to code.

There's a lot of [ __ ] out there who

are probably thinking, "Oh, Chad GBT

code me this app."

Yeah.

And and they think that's it.

There's a meme right now. Have you seen

the Indian meme? It's like, "Chad GBT

code me billion dollar idea." Very

quick, very fast.

And then you press run and you're like,

"Fuck this. AI doesn't work." It's like,

well, obviously it can't just do that.

on the back to the note of like you know

people not going out and experiencing

things for themselves and just expecting

AI to like do all the hard work for them

and people not being able to build their

character. I think that's what social

media is doing to people especially like

when it comes to dopamine like instead

of going out there doing hard things and

like getting rewarded for doing the hard

things well they're just scrolling all

day and they get the same amount of

dopamine to the point where they just

feel numb and they don't want to do

anything else because instead of going

out and doing a hard thing why not just

sit in my bed and scroll.

Yeah. or jerk off if you don't want to

go get girls.

Yeah, exact. That's exactly like Yeah,

it parlays into quitter. It's like,

okay, you could go out to a club or a

bar and speak to a girl and do the hard

thing and approach and like risk

embarrassment or you could just jerk off

to any girl you want on the internet.

And yeah, you know what's crazy? I had a

post go out on Twitter yesterday.

[ __ ] 10 years old, guys. Hey guys,

I'm 10. I'm struggling. Like, I need

help. 10 years old. He's got aware

enough to download an app to help you

quit and pay for it and then post on the

like it's crazy.

That's insane. And how many users are

you guys at now?

A million downloads. About maybe quarter

million paying users.

That's unbelievable. And you and this

app launched how long ago?

Uh 12 months ago now.

And so how exactly are you helping

people quit gooning?

Well, so I'm a gooner, bro. I'm serious.

And and the thing is

how often do you goon,

dude? I've been gooning multiple times a

week since I was 16. Yeah.

And the thing is for me is like I've and

I know and and I say it openly because

like first of all like I'm aware like

pornography is awful for your brain. You

know what I mean? That that we can all

agree on. But like at least for me it's

just it's never been like you know I

work [ __ ] 10 12 hours a day. You know

what I mean? Like it's it's not like

removing like discipline or motivation

from me. Like if and I'm not like a I'm

not like a psychopath where I'm just

like spending hours a day doing any of

that [ __ ] But like I've spoken about it

before and I spoke about it with a

friend of mine who's a creator as well.

Like it does bring some mental clarity.

Like to be honest, bro, you know.

So, do you use it as like a reward for

the hard work? You're like, "All right,

Daddy Wellness, you bought [ __ ] hard

this week. You get to jerk off."

No, bro. I just [ __ ] go to the gym,

get back home, eat, and I'm like, "Fuck,

I want to crank when I'm feeling horny."

And then I'm just And then I hop on

[ __ ] stream and I'm [ __ ] firing. I

mean, my whole day, you know, my entire

day waking hour, 99% of it is making

What's the longest you spent? Not joking

off. Have you ever had an extended

period of time?

I'm like 30 days, bro. I felt pretty

good, you know? There you go.

Yeah. I don't have a problem. I don't

have a problem. But I but the thing is

is like I'm I'm someone who like I don't

deny the [ __ ] facts ever. I love to

drink tequila. I named this podcast TSL

time podcast tequila line time podcast

because there's nothing there's nothing

more that I love than sitting down

having a drink with interesting people

which we can do another day for sure and

having a conversation. But I still

acknowledge the fact that that is

poison, right? Like jerking off is

terrible for you. You know what I mean?

But like with everything, I don't strive

for perfection. I just try and be very

consistently good. I don't think the

optimal human state is one of like

perfect optimization all the time. I

think that that is like a false uh sort

of uh paradigm which people are

increasingly falling into the Brian

Johnson level.

Yeah.

A degree of but but I will say for them

for example like it sounds like you

don't have a major problem with it.

Right.

I'm sure that there are people in the

forums that are like I jerk off four

[ __ ] times a day. All I can ever

think about is pornography. Right. And

every time they open up social media

it's just like straight to the bathroom.

Yeah, sorry. I

I didn't mean to cut you off earlier and

start talking about my gooni. But so you

guys are at a million downloads, quarter

million users, half a million in MR, one

year into the game, and you just

recently had a 10-year-old talk about

how he feels he has a problem already

with, you know, edging and gooning and

stuff like that. And so how like how are

you measuring these results? Are you

really seeing people quitting, you know,

this [ __ ] gooning epidemic?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay, wait. Just

before we get to that, I little quick

thought. Maybe we don't feel guilty

about doing it because we are relatively

successful and so there's nothing to

feel bad about. But I think the majority

of people who haven't got a real purpose

in life and then jerk off and they're

like after the clarity, they're left

with nothing to show for it. That's when

it gets to a pain point.

Yeah. When I was when I hit rock bottom,

it was waking and baking, smoking weed

all day, drinking in the afternoon, and

jerking off twice a day. And I was

completely detached from my why, my

purpose, my mission and this [ __ ]

mission to like [ __ ] you know, get

after it. And those were the things I

was doing. It's very common, you know,

the things that people do when they are

[ __ ] the bed,

right?

Dude, I was addicted to I smoked

probably three plus times a day for five

plus years. And it wasn't until after I

stopped that, got everything under

control that I was able to find any

level of success. I think that these

sort of vices, everyone has their own.

For some people it's smoking too much

weed. Some people it's drinking too

much. Some people it's jerking off too

much. Like I think that is one of the

greatest inhibitors of success.

Very very that's very very interesting.

So talk to me about some of these

results. So this is a community I mean I

looked at I looked at Twitter a little

bit on the website. It's right it's a

community- based app where people come

together like addicts type you know

technically it's a virtual AA for

beating off.

So yeah essentially

that's a good one.

Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Um, like I

think the topic itself is very taboo and

like people obviously don't want to talk

about it. Like when you do jerk off like

you close the [ __ ] door, you close

the eyes. You don't want anyone watching

you. So it kind of the same with sharing

it. Like you don't want to speak to your

friends about jerking off. Like that's

not Um, so

yeah, I'm fully open about it.

Yeah. Yeah, you're open about it. A lot

of people aren't. Um, so we're like,

okay, like let's make a community. Let's

make an app to actually help people

quit. Uh, like quick backstory, I got

into this because I went down the

self-improvement rabbit hole. I watch a

lot of Hamza. Part of self-improvement

is stop jerking off. And that seemed to

be like the the hardest

part for people just because it's super

accessible because social media is over

sexualized because it's free and because

that's like the innate human desire.

Like what what was that word you used?

The like fundamental human biological

biological imperative biological

imperative.

So real quick, the biological imperative

asserts that life exists to continue

living and to reproduce. And for many

animals, they actually die in the

process of reproduction. They will

sacrifice themselves for the sake of of

having offspring. And I think that like

you're saying, like pornography

stimulates that, but it's not that. And

if you fall victim to that loop of

constantly doing it and feeling like

you're getting that level of

satisfaction, but you're too afraid to

go speak to a girl anytime you're out in

public right

it's like that's when it's completely

debilitating.

And that's that's what porn is. It's

like that biological imperative on tap

on demand whenever you want. Like that's

insane. Um, so about the results. So we

have a community. People share their

streaks, how they're feeling, like how

much quitting has benefited their lives.

We also give people like special orbs

for how long they have they've stayed

clean. So like 90 days you got a super

rainbow orb. And this is displayed

publicly. So anyone posting in the

community, you can see their streak.

And you could have an anonymous account

obviously. You don't have to have your

full name attached.

Yeah. I've been anonymous on there for

two months, not

Yeah. Um and then I get emails almost

every day. We have 30,000 fivestar

reviews of people saying, "This is the

best app I've ever found. Like, it's

changed my life for good." I've had

people like come up to me in person

saying the same thing. Um so, results

are real. I just think having a

community of people that are all

struggling with the same thing, coming

together and being like, "All right,

we're going to quit together." Super

powerful. I think that's the number one

thing with these like community based

apps is just the sense of

accountability. It's like I I struggled

with like anxiety and panic attacks for

a long time. It's like a [ __ ] I'm

super extroverted, you know? I've never

had any problems public speaking or

[ __ ] getting up and giving a speech

in class, but out of nowhere after

abusing weed for many years in high

school, I got to college and out of

nowhere one day I just start having

panic attacks. Walking to the cafeteria,

I feel like the walls are closing in on

me.

And I felt like this anxiety was like

some rare disease I had and I was like,

"What the [ __ ] is wrong with me? Why can

I why why do I feel weird when I go into

the classroom? It's like, dude, you know

how many people [ __ ] struggle with

anxiety? It's like n most I mean most

people in the world have some sort of

anxiety.

And so it wasn't until I began to talk

about it

and meet other people who've dealt with

it that I was like [ __ ] You know what I

mean? Like you're not alone in this. And

the same thing goes for [ __ ] this

insanity that's going on right now with

girls is asses shaking on your screen

24/7 on like literally it's never been

easier

to look at some cheeks clap on your

[ __ ] phone. You know what I mean? And

[ __ ] hot ass chicks dancing and doing

stuff on your phone. Bro, are you

kidding me? Like I see a [ __ ] girl

with a wagon on my Instagram pop up a

lot of times. I'm going to watch it. You

know what I mean? That's like dude as a

guy, you know what I mean? It's just

like hard to ignore that.

Yeah. Especially got a lot of

testosterone. There's this insane quote

which is like the average or any person

with access to the internet nowadays can

see more beautiful naked 10 out of 10

women than any of the greatest kings

throughout all of human history.

That's insane. Like wild.

I was think about it like imagine like a

caveman back in the day.

You give him a [ __ ] Instagram.

You gave him a [ __ ] 30 scrolls on

Instagram. This guy would be busting the

largest nut of his [ __ ] life.

Forget to eat, dude. He would just

[ __ ] all day,

bro. It would probably be like a hero,

like a shot of heroin, bro. That [ __ ]

Like, think about like, you know, having

to freaking nomad your way through

forests and wilderness and you enter a

new village and like you come across

like, wow, like that's a beautiful

woman.

Everything just firing your brain. Boom.

And now it's just like,

yeah honestly

jerk. Like, bro, it's it's actually it's

it's so [ __ ] fascinating, bro. That's

that's so sick. It's it's that that's

that's so sick to see that like you know

I mean countries are now starting to

crack down on this. I don't know if

you've seen like a lot of states in the

US have now banned pornography and you

have to verify your ID

in the UK as well. My friend just told

me that.

Yeah. You got to be

the crazy thing though is like it's like

soft core porn that I think really draws

the people in which is on social media.

the social media feeds are not one bit

not one bit uh uh you know designed to

prevent it right whereas like they block

pornhub whatever you need ID whatever it

is but then the feeds it's like

10-year-olds can just

and they won't like Facebook and Twitter

they won't remove it because that gets

the most attention

it's insane to me dude it's insane the

fact that they haven't actually cracked

down

they don't they don't want to

only fans only fans is like I wrote an

essay of that [ __ ] in my [ __ ] in in

in

in my senior year of of college because

it's just like you know if there's the

most free thing online is pornography

right is is

there's some stat where it's like some

insane percentage it's like I think I

know it's a double digit percentage of

all content and all media images etc on

the internet is pornography

double 70%

70 videos have the most uh is is the

most visited website

on like the internet or like top three

like X videos or one of those like porn

websites Wow.

He's like, "I have no idea what that

website."

No, bro. And I'll be fully honest, bro,

cuz like like and I'll speak on it cuz

other people won't. It's just like,

dude, you see a really hot girl like and

you know she's got the [ __ ] link in

her bio and like you know, you come

across her video and she's like

obviously your curiosity spikes. You're

like, "Oh, you want what you can't

have." Your brain sees this chick. You

want to know what she's going to look

like ass naked. You pay five bucks to

just see your [ __ ] naked, get your

goon out, and then there you go. Now,

like it's insane, bro. I've done it,

bro. I've spoken about it. I've seen

some [ __ ] and I'm just like, "What

the [ __ ] this girl's so hot. Like, I

need to see what she looks like. And

like obviously it's the worst thing you

could ever do, but like even like

it's it's it's mind-blowing, bro.

So, where do you think this kind of

industry is going? Like, do you think

we're going to start cracking down on

this and becoming aware of detrimental

side effects of all these things we

consume?

I don't know. I to be honest, bro, I I'm

I'm very pessimistic on it. Like, I

think I think I think it's literally

survival of the fittest. It's like

the

you need to like you either lock in or

you're [ __ ] I think the hope is that

companies like Twitter, people like

Hamza, people that preach this message

in the long term win out because, you

know, you'll see the individuals that

subscribe to that set of beliefs, which

is like I should avoid this or I should

at the very least control it and then

you'll see the the outcome of the

individuals that don't and and it'll be

clear that that the people that that

that can take control of their life are

the ones that live the better lives.

Very interesting what you just said.

Well, the reason I say

survival of the fittest. Well, that's

what it is because listen, bro, a

million downloads, that's an

unbelievable accomplishment. But there

is over a billion people jerking their

dick every day. Let me tell them, let me

tell you something. Like,

like that's why I'm telling you the

fittest. Those people who are taking the

initiative to use the tools to become

part of the community to face their

[ __ ] problems and make a change are

the only ones who are going to [ __ ]

be good. But most people aren't doing

that [ __ ] Most people are [ __ ]

[ __ ] there. Especially even like the

young kids is what freaks me out the

most, bro. Like

the young kids is what's scary. The

[ __ ] guy who's 40 years old who's has

a bad relationship with his wife who's

making [ __ ] a lot of money every year

and he's on Only Fans tipping a girl

[ __ ] a few hundredk a year just to

see her tits and take her out to dinner.

Bro, do whatever the [ __ ] you want.

You're down horrendous. But the kid

who's [ __ ] in high school, who's not

hasn't lost his virginity, who's never

been in a relationship, who's completely

like like not in tune with his emotions

and he's gooning to [ __ ] chicks

dancing [ __ ] Tik Tok songs on Only

Fans. That's a serious problem, bro.

Yeah.

Me, I'm not worried about myself. I'm

not worried about my horny ass who got

curious about some random [ __ ] chick

or some [ __ ] I mean, I I own I own it.

But the younger kids, bro, like growing

up with that [ __ ] that's where like,

you know, what you will make a serious

positive impact, you know?

Wait, that's I don't know. That's kind

of blown my mind a bit. Survival of the

fittest. I think just like in science

and biology and all animals like the

strongest survive and reproduce and

that's why kind of evolution exists,

right? So yeah, the my concern I mean I

think one concern there is like negative

birthing rates are a massive issue and I

think pornography will continue to

contribute to that and we're going to

see continuous population like the US is

a declining population if you less

immigration right you subtract

immigration you just look at people that

are born here the the the death rate

versus birthing rate population is

declining and this is occurring in

pretty much every western developed

country.

Yeah

it's crazy. I mean, listen, bro. I know

nothing about [ __ ] you know, all

these crazy like economic statistics and

[ __ ] but this is just what like my

common sense tells me, right?

Yeah. And I mean, you're on the money,

right?

Birth rate is decreasing fast.

There's never been this many gay people.

There's never been this many high

schoolers gooning to Only Fans. And

there's never been this many hot girls

shaking their ass on the internet. This

is like this is this is this is basic al

this is basic calculus, bro. I failed

calculus. I failed calculus. I was

stoned in calculus and I could tell you

you add those four together and uh I

mean I listen fact check me I don't know

about this declining birth rate [ __ ] but

if that actually is a threat it's

actually happening then the math is

math the common sense is on is in line

with the actual data which

and another thing too I I mean I have

tons of gay friends nothing against gay

people but like you want if if you guys

want to [ __ ] you know get after each

other and this birth rate thing is

actual problem I mean maybe that's like

maybe I got to pump out a few extra ones

to make up

that's Cool. Do whatever makes you

happy. Let us know if we got to pump a

few extra out though. You know,

apparently one in four Gen Z's are gay

or part of the LGBT community, which is

insane.

Yeah, someone in here is gay.

And I will say,

um, yeah. Damn.

It's very interesting though. It's very

interesting. So, that's awesome, bro.

what are the next steps for and then and

then I want and then I want to get into

a bit of Cali which to be honest I have

have I feel a little bit more uh

you know

passionate

passionate violence Cali because I I

mean I can relate to a bit more since

I'm still a gooner

but um but I think I think this is

amazing bro I think this is really cool

what are I mean as of right now um and I

didn't ask you guys this before

all these apps have been bootstrapped

and selfunded

y

every single one

yes we all like

$3,000 $2,000

and a few conversations with Chad GBT

guiding you

literally th thousands of dollars into

uh you know across the app mafia

portfolio like all the apps that the

founders have built we do over 70

million a year um and I don't even know

if we're counting bags in that like if

we count bags their recent growth rate

it's probably 100 mil plus

yeah I mean honestly it's just it

doesn't even surprise me like just like

you know it's just mo it makes sense why

most people just don't even believe this

[ __ ]

yeah I mean public says and honestly

there's no reason to even get mad about

it, but it's actually [ __ ]

ridiculous.

Sensor tower, search up Calai, search up

Twitter, UMAX, Plug AI, NGL.

And I think and and then you know what?

We will finish off this conversation

because I think that's the coolest thing

is this course you guys are building

because I know anyone who's made it this

far into the podcast. First of all,

thank you for tuning in and please

subscribe and go check out these guys

socials afterwards. But you're going to

tell them a little bit about what you're

creating in order if anybody wants to

try and do what you guys have done.

Cali first and then we dive into the the

app mafia.

Yeah, 100%. I want to do that. Before

that, I was asking about, you know,

self-funded, bootstrapped. Um, what

about raising money? I mean, obviously,

thus far, bootstrapped. Do you guys, how

often are you getting a [ __ ] check

from a VC or an offer?

All the time.

All the time. Yeah.

Yeah. But here, here's the thing. Like,

uh, VC model works best when you're

pursuing multi multi-b like deca plus

billion dollar outcomes, like tens of

billions of dollars uh, in enterprise

value. And with what we're doing, it's

like the the bottleneck is not cash. you

know, the core bottleneck is just uh you

know, the insights and knowledge that

you have on the industry and then your

agency to go and make it happen. So, you

know, the difference between having a

$100,000 to start one of these apps and

having $5,000,

it's very very low. The difference is

maybe just like speed from the start,

but in terms of the outcome that you can

achieve, pretty much nothing. You don't

need it.

I think that we will all likely raise

for future companies when we pursue

those much bigger outcomes. Uh, but for

the time being it's like we don't need

it.

That's sick. That's just crazy. It just

goes to show like the barrier to entry

is so much smaller now and [ __ ]

sit your ass down on GPT and spend the

time instead of just asking it, you

know, make me a [ __ ] app and plug it,

bro. If you actually [ __ ] put the

time to do it.

And I will I will say as well, I think

it's far more impactful to start from

zero and grow up than get a $250,000

check and try go grow from that. I mean,

dude, there are people that raised

millions of dollars for apps where we

look at it and we're like, the [ __ ] are

you even using $3 million for?

Yeah,

exactly. You learn so I think what we

should strive for is education and

learning and wisdom. And I think getting

a check doesn't really help.

You learn the foundational skills

yourself and then as the company grows,

you hire people to fulfill those roles.

You start with cash and you just hire

people to do it and you never learn how

to do it yourself. And my belief

specifically within this space, I don't

think it applies to every company, but

within this space, I think you're

actually kind of shooting yourself in

the foot if you don't learn how to do

the thing yourself,

right? That makes a lot of sense. That's

sick. It's actually crazy. I'm so happy

I'm getting to learn about it from the

[ __ ] source themselves. Yeah. So now,

uh, let's let's get into a little bit

of, uh, of Cali

because I mean, I kid you not, I don't

know how much I mean, first of all, I

mean, I don't even want to know how much

money you're [ __ ] spending on

influencers because the biggest like I

mean, Mr. Beast now. You've gotten

you've gotten you've gotten to the

[ __ ] beast.

Yeah.

To do an ad.

Yeah.

I I mean,

it's pretty cool.

That's insane. Like

I You probably can't share how much you

paid.

No, I can share. We might have to blur

it. So, I'll start.

I'm saying can can we do can we do like

a range here?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We knew under over

under.

Okay. Did you pay more than a million

dollars for Mr. Beast

Cali? Under

under a million for Mr. Beast to promote

Cali. Yep.

Over 500,000.

Okay. So, between half a million and a

million dollar for Mr. Beast to to do

that. Um, that's [ __ ] insane. Um,

that just goes to show how [ __ ]

successful this app has become.

Um now

you guys have gotten a lot of hate.

A lot of hate.

A lot of hate. a lot of sellout

allegations for creators who promote

Cali because I mean your number one

competitor is My Fitness Pal which is a

manual input calorie tracking app that

gives you the closest thing to 100%. And

as you mentioned how accurate is Cali

on average within 90% accurate for our

photo scanning feature and then the uh

manual sort of food database which is

pretty much the exact same as my fitness

bell. um it's about 100% accurate,

right? That's just pulling from the same

food database I believe that My Fitness

Pal uses uh pulling the nutrients for

when you manually enter. So when you

enter one tablespoon of peanut butter,

it's just pulling from from the food

database.

So on average 90%.

Yes.

And how how are you guys able to like

determine that that level of accuracy?

Yeah. So we have a uh database um of uh

of images of foods with their verified

amount of calories and macros contained

within and then as we update our sort of

ML vision model as well as AI vision. So

these are two different different

things. um as we update them and improve

them, we're able to see the increases in

our sort of uh accuracy, right? So,

we're able to so we randomly select from

this food database, we pass it through

the new pipelines and then we see how

accurate the the um like our our vision

models are. So, for anyone who's

unaware, Cali has a few main features,

but the most viral one is this image

scanning feature where you can take a

picture of your food and it will tell

you how many calories as well as how

many grams of each macronutrient are in

your food. Uh, but then we also have the

food database, which like I said is what

My Fitness Pal has and what has been

traditionally the most popular form of

tracking calories where you enter the

ingredients of the food that you're

eating or the uh name. For example, if

it's a McDonald's cheeseburger, you just

enter McDonald's double quarter pounder

and then it pulls that directly from

McDonald's database.

Yeah, that's I mean that's great. And I

think you know and I'll be fully honest

with you. When I first saw Cali, I was

extremely skeptical as someone who used

Fitness Pal for many years and

understanding like calories in and

calories out when it comes to weight

loss. Like it's one of those types of

things where like right I would say you

need to be near perfect, right? There's

no such thing as perfect. You know,

sometimes you put a little bit more oil

in a tablespoon of oil when you're

cooking and you know, extra 10 20

calories. But I mean, considering that

it's 90% accurate and it's and it's

cutting off all that friction of because

there I honestly think I told you there

is nothing more [ __ ] annoying on the

planet than looking at the label of your

food, typing it into My Fitness Pala.

Like every day you're already getting

[ __ ] hungry and get into your

kitchen, you want to cook, but now you

have to like input everything. Like it's

one of the most monotonous, annoying

tasks ever. I did it for years because,

you know, it was the only like that was

just before Cali or anything like that.

Um, and so I kind of learned to have

like a visual myself. I got a little

Cali in my brain already.

Yep. You get good at intuitive eating.

Yeah. And so, you know, it's great to

hear that because I mean, a lot of

people have accused you guys all this

scam for fat people to lose weight.

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, listen, like I

totally hear and understand the

arguments, and I think that it often

comes from the science-based

weightlifting community and bodybuilders

who are like, "Curacy is not enough for

me to step on stage," which I 100% agree

with. I would not recommend using our

image scanning feature if you are

competing or if you need to be extremely

dialed. Now that said, we have the same

food database as well as barcode

scanning as the other popular calorie

trackers. Uh the reason that we promote

the uh AI image scanning is twofold.

One, it's more viral, right? So, it's

going to do better in social media

promos. And then two, it solves this

sort of middle ground where I think that

there's a ton of people that have tried

to do the manual calorie tracking. as

you just said, it takes so much time.

It's so annoying and they give up on

calorie tracking as a whole because it

takes so much time. A lot of these

people are very overweight and lack uh

or haven't yet developed within

themselves an extremely strong level of

discipline.

And so what we do is we remove the

friction and we increase the probability

that they're going to stay committed to

the goal. In general, a framework that I

like to use is don't let perfection be

the enemy of um improvement, right?

Don't let your attempt to be great and

perfect stop you from being good. And so

what I would always recommend to people

is like if you have not been able to be

consistent with the sort of manual

entry, then use the AI scanning to

start. you're going to start to

understand what sort of uh macronutrient

breakdown exists within different foods

and then it might be easier to make that

transition to being more accurate as you

reach the tail end of your weight loss

or weight gain journey. Growing up, I

was very very skinny, like extremely

[ __ ] skinny. I have a picture on my

my Instagram and I got into

weightlifting and calorie tracking and

it improved my life so much. And what I

found was that I actually didn't have to

be very methodical as I got better at it

because I knew the amount of calories

that I was eating and I I started to

learn my body. And that's really who we

developed it for. Um, and so like I

understand the criticism like I get it.

I don't I don't uh I don't have any

hatred towards people that that push

hate towards us. But what I will say is

I think that the hate is misplaced. And

I we've received thousands thousands of

messages of people saying I was never

able to stay consistent with these other

calorie trackers because it was too much

effort. But now with Cali I've lost 20

40 50 100 pounds even.

Yeah. Yeah know and to your point to

give you a more supporting argument here

which I hadn't thought about it tonight

now you're saying this is and I've

spoken to Moose about it a lot is like

you know I was very overweight in in

middle school high school and you know

as you're going through puberty and

you're dealing with like body image

issues body dysmorphia whatever throw on

top you know counting calories weighing

yourself as still like a young adult

that can be you know it's not easy bro

it's it's hard to go through that you

know dealing with insecurity and all

these different numbers and stuff like

that and I do think you know even if

it's 90 not 100% inaccurate for a

[ __ ] middle school or high school. I

hadn't thought about this before to use

that tool to track their calories

versus, you know, mom, let me get a

[ __ ] food scale. Let me get a [ __ ]

weight scale. Let me be tracking all

these when at that time, you know, as

important as it is to be healthy, right?

You don't need to be [ __ ] perfect.

And nowadays with what we see on social

media, most creators just so just show

the best the perfect side of their

lives. They don't know that most of

these pictures are edited with

Lightroom. I don't know that a lot of

these guys are on, you know, supplements

and and gear and [ __ ] like that versus

taking, you know, this like first step

of like, let me just gauge an idea of

what I'm putting in my body. So,

had thought about it before. That that

that is that is very interesting. Look

at it from that point of view.

I'll pose this question to you. Um, you

know, if you don't have deep knowledge,

let's say you're a 16-year-old that's

really overweight and you don't have

deep knowledge of the caloric breakdown

of different foods and you go to a

restaurant, how are you going to track

your calories?

Yeah, that's you're not

it's impossible. Like, what are you

going to separate every ingredient from

your cheeseburger from your salad? Like,

you don't know what to do. So, the next

best option is to try to make sure

everything's in view. Take the picture

and then you can add a description, this

salad has, you know, two tablespoons of

balsamic vinegarette uh dressing. And

then I think that an image is probably

going to do a lot better than just

completely guessing.

Yeah. And I think, you know, it's to

that point, bro. We were talking about

it before. It's just like humans are

late.

What the [ __ ] was that? Sorry, you heard

a noise in the office. There's a ghost.

We're we're we're like humans are

naturally wired to be comfortable, you

know, to be lazy, you know? There's no

it's not fun to go [ __ ] do an hour of

cardio or to sit there and track your

calories. Like like naturally like we

want to take the easy route out. And

that's my the point that I'm trying to

make is that you eliminate some friction

to it and get as close as you can to

like the more, you know, like you're

eliminating friction and you're getting

as close as you can to what you know,

quote unquote, your enemy, my fitness

pal, is doing. And so, yeah. No, I think

I think that that that's unbelievable.

And you know, it's it's now gotten h how

many users have you guys had on it now?

Yeah, we have had uh well over 10

million people download the app. Um and

you know, like to some extent, My

Fitness Pal is our enemy in that they're

a competitor and we want more market

share than them. But personally, what I

really care about is like I want

everyone to be healthy. Like it's really

something that I care about. And uh I

don't view it so much as like it's a

fixed pie and like they have this and we

have that. I'm like, [ __ ] it. If more

people are able to get their or achieve

their fitness goals, I view that as a

win. And so, you know, we have we have

hundreds thousands of copycats. Um, but

anyone that's building it that's truly

mission driven, trying to provide a tool

to help people lose, gain, whatever

whatever their fitness goals are, um, I

view as as being on our team of

increasing the health of the world.

Yeah, I think that's one of the best

things um that I've noticed since AI as

well and everything that's been coming

out is that it there truly has never

been a time in history where there's

this much information, these many free

tools, this much just anything on how to

make healthier choices. Like, it's never

been easier. But it also has never been

harder, right? Like everywhere you

[ __ ] go, like you drive from here to

your [ __ ] crib and where you're at in

20 minutes, you're going to drive past

20 fast food places. You know what I You

go to the the grocery stores and like

literally yesterday the other day I made

a video. It's like you go to a checkout

line of Whole Foods. At the checkout

line, the last thing you see before you

pay for your [ __ ] food is a

[ __ ] cookie that's the furthest

thing from a whole [ __ ] food. You

know what I mean? So all these tools I

think is is is super super interesting.

Um

I I think it's sick and and you know to

be honest I haven't actually used Cali

um from how skeptical I've been and

honestly I just haven't been tracking

calories in a while. I did spend years

doing it.

Um

but that's sick to see.

you know, what are kind of like the

plans now moving forward? I mean, Mr.

Beast is like

Yeah, it's big.

It's big.

Yeah. You know, there there are two two

primary fronts for uh all these apps

that we build, which I think will is a

good segue into App Mafia in just a

moment. But there are two primary

fronts. There's continuing to improve

the product, make it easier for people

to use and make it more accurate, and

additionally make it as cheap as

possible. That's like we're 20 to $30 a

year, right? It's very cheap compared to

My Fitness Pal's like 20 bucks a month.

If you don't want to be littered with

ads every time you get a log,

is that one cent a day?

Yeah. Yeah. 10 cents. Yeah. Yeah. Just

under 10 cents a day.

If you can't afford 10 cents a day, bro,

then [ __ ] get off this podcast, bro.

And then there's And then there's

distribution, right? So, it's working

with bigger, more influential, more

reputable creators. Uh Mr. Beast, Alex

Eubank, um and you know, anyone who uh

who's here to join the mission.

Yeah, that's sick. And I think you know

one of the common themes now moving in a

little bit of app mafia of what you guys

have done um right the main underlying

like the main umbrella of of apps and

you know tools you're you're providing

for like these

helping improve these insecurities right

whether it's a lack of confidence and

gooning it's losing weight or gaining

weight or it's you know getting tips on

how to look better. Um, back to this

thing of just like looking better,

feeling better, getting girls. Um,

it's the goal of life.

That's the goal of life. Yeah. What else

do you want? Be healthy, look good, find

a partner, or go out and [ __ ] get

laid however often you want, be

confident, and, you know, work at

something that you like. Do you think

that um, you know, people the the term,

you know, we're in this AI bubble right

now? What are we are we in an AI bubble?

you know AI bubble can take many forms

right you can look at the leading model

providers openai anthropic you look at

their cogs you look at their their opex

um and you can say well you know they're

spending a lot more than they're making

whatever um but I think the the you know

I like to try to simplify these sort of

um the these sort of frameworks when I

think about it from a macro uh economic

perspective which is like AI is one of

the greatest technological developments

humans um throughout human history and

it's going to it's going to improve the

world and and help provide tools to

people and it's going to commoditize

intelligence and people are going to

have their personal tutors, doctors, um

you know, we're going to we're going to

have systems where AI can sort of

decrease the amount of human labor

needed for things and so you know bubble

is relative to valuations but overall

it's a net positive uh you know

development for society without a doubt.

Agreed. You agree with that as well?

Absolutely.

People say I think people said it was a

bubble in 2023 because of all again all

these valuations, but it's impacted the

world.

People called the internet a bubble in

2000 right?

AI is not going away by any means. It's

not going away.

Like we're going to see we obviously saw

that wave of like everybody trying to

make an AI app and everybody trying to

build something just a slap on AI and

raise money and you know

that was a bubble,

right? Right. So that then we see, you

know, is back to survival of the

fittest, like you know, sayanara, nice

try. You truly didn't have like a like a

valuedriven mission um to help people.

And so then, you know, you're left with

the [ __ ] dogs who are actually

innovating, who are actually helping

people, and who are actually, you know,

building [ __ ] that's sick. I think that

there are a few levels here, but like

the two core ones are like there the

foundational model providers that are

engaging in deep research and training

models and then there's the application

layer where we sit, which is okay, let's

take these models and figure out how to

apply them to new forms of consumer

experience. And this is what we're

seeking to teach people how to do.

Right? Since the advent of the app

store, um, you know, well over 15 years

ago, there were a bunch of players that

came in and built these incumbent apps,

apps like My Fitness Pal, uh, Dolingo,

those sort of products where they've

been around and they were built on the

existing technology and now AI has come

and it's just vastly uh, expanded this

set of products that people can build

and specifically that small teams can

build with relatively little cash and

resources. is and we've kind of cracked

this code of how to do it. Um, and you

know, we've got the App Mafia, but man,

there are tens, if not a hundred plus

other apps making over $100,000 a month

that saw what we've done and have just

kind of rebuilt the experience for

different domains. There are people that

have built, you know, Quitter, but for

quitting uh, sugar and quitting alcohol.

And there are people that have built um

you know Cali but for scanning

supplements and people that have built

um you know UMAX but specifically for

tailored skinincare routines.

Yeah. For girls.

For girls.

Um

and I think that the number of

applications are virtually endless. It's

and it's massively net positive for

society as a whole.

And we want to teach more and more

people to build. More software is

better. Like they're just tools for for

human improvement. and and yeah, we want

to we want to share this sort of uh this

sort of playbook with the world.

That's [ __ ] sick. Yeah, that's really

cool. Yeah, because I was really just

like my my my my question overall is

like, you know, do you think the

opportunity is going to start to like

decrease and like do you think, you

know,

are we going to still see like a lot of

these like new solutions come to certain

problems using AI on apps specifically

on apps?

Yeah, for sure. 100%. And you know one

of the great things is that the more the

more that people build the cheaper the

products become for people right so AI

chat basic chat interface has been

commoditized and therefore you can use

chat GPT and Grock and meta AI and all

these different products you can use it

for free. Now, the sort of more specific

narrow applications such as AI calorie

tracking, fitness goals, looks maxing,

quitting porn. Um, you know, uh, you got

one for nailbiting. I've been biting my

nails.

Yeah, there probably is.

I've I've been biting my nails for 15

years bro.

Oh wow.

I swear to God, bro. It's like since I

was little, so I was like 12 or 11. I've

been biting my nails every [ __ ] day.

Just search nailbiting on the app store.

I'm sure you'll find

I'll switch it up. Maybe maybe maybe do

a little something.

So, yeah. I mean, the more people that

are building in the space, the cheaper

it becomes for consumers and the more

that we have software that can help help

people improve themselves across all

these different domains.

And that's that's the mission. That's

the message.

And you could do all of this when you're

young bro.

And you can also do all of it while

making money without like it's not

scamming people, you know? Like you

build a product, you share it with the

world, and people are going to pay you

for the product because the product

helps them improve their life, right?

This is positive sum. said this like

capitalism.

It's the best feeling when you're

helping millions of people and making

millions of dollars at the same time.

You get a message saying, "I was

addicted to jerking off for my entire

[ __ ] life and it was debilitating."

And then I downloaded quitter and it

gave me the sense of accountability and

discipline to get over it. And now it

leads to

That's priceless. It's priceless.

There's no It's like the same thing when

like I get a when I get a DM from

someone just telling me like, "Oh, like

you motivated me to like improve my life

and you [ __ ] make me laugh and do all

these different things." like all like

it's it's that goes so far beyond like

the money that that comes along with it.

But um

and how much more

you you preach a cool message which is

like you can simultaneously have fun and

also yet still work on yourself and

exercise and like have your periods for

both in life which makes it much more

accessible to people exercise more

accessible for example to people that do

go out and maybe they like maybe they go

out and they just they're lazy

afterwards whatever and they see you and

they're like oh [ __ ] I'm gonna get back

into it like I can have these different

stages I can have fun while also working

on myself at the same time.

Yeah 100%. Yeah, that's that's the

balanced lifestyle motto, baby.

Exactly.

Striving for it.

And how much more positive is like

building apps that help people than just

like trading on the stock market, you

know, or or buying crypto coins? Like

actually contribute big picture. Way

better for society.

Yeah. I mean, 100%. You know, I I

wouldn't I would I don't I mean TJR has

a pretty damn good life, so I don't know

how much he gives a No, but I'm just

kidding. But um you know yeah the next

the next thing that I wanted to ask you

guys about was right you guys are you

guys are doing good. What about the

people who want to do bad with AI?

Who's doing bad? Because I know I've

seen that there's

they're nefarious actors.

What about someone who wants to create a

[ __ ] AI 10 out of 10 Russian chick

who can freaking schllob my corn cob in

the middle of the night and it's like

four grand and I can buy it in three

years and she's just chilling in my

apartment.

Yeah. You know it's hard. Um, I have

been actually trying recently to not

pass too much judgment on the actions of

others. So, even like things like

trading in crypto in the past, I've kind

of been like, [ __ ] those industries,

blah blah blah. Even now, I'll still say

it because it's like a little bit viral,

whatever. But

I like capitalism. I think that the free

market is a good thing and that the

market of ideas is a good thing. And

while I think that that [ __ ] is bad, it

it's hard because, you know, you scroll

back 20 years, you look at gaming,

right? Um, gaming was, you know, got a

lot of [ __ ] and has still gotten a lot

of [ __ ] as being bad for society.

Uh, people spend a ton of time playing

video games and and it's like, oh my

god, this is the worst thing ever. But

gaming is actually what has led to the

advancement of AI. gaming created the

economic incentive for the development

of GPUs which are just really good at

matrix multiplication which have enabled

us to build this these sort of emergent

incredibly intelligent large language

models. We would not have had the same

level of investment in in in in GPU

technology had it not been for the

gaming industry. Now when it comes to

the people doing bad by creating these

porn models, I don't [ __ ] with it

personally. I would encourage people not

to do it. And yet at the same time, who

knows? Maybe there's some sort of insane

emergent result that that that leads to

technological advancement of the human

race as a whole. So, you know, I I don't

like it uh on an individual basis and

yet at the same time, I I I like to try

my best not to pass too much judgment.

Yeah. I think, you know,

seeing people do bad [ __ ] and stupid

[ __ ] will only like teach us, you know,

other ways and methods of like, you

know, what to avoid, you know, what

other good solutions can we bring? It's

impossible. There's no such thing as

just an all, you know, [ __ ] sunshine,

rainbows, and positive solutions. You

know what I mean? There's got to be some

[ __ ] some some

negative or, you know, [ __ ] up [ __ ] to

happen.

Yeah. like the best way to combat it.

You see something like that, you don't

like it, you don't like the state of the

porn industry, um you know, let let the

people in the positions of uh in the

legislature pass the laws against it.

But you as an individual, the best thing

you can do is go build quitter and go

teach people that they shouldn't watch

it and and and correct bad information

with better information, right? We don't

need to be the the the policemen of of

uh you know uh what people do. We'll let

the the the government take care of

that. We can just be the efficient

market operators that help to correct it

through through better better

information.

Solid

spot [ __ ] on. And now moving kind of

now segue in a bit to into App Mafia.

Um, you know, and before we get to that,

I think one of the things that people

are probably curious about, um, you

know, aside from looking into the

products you guys have built and, you

know, and what's going on with the state

of AI and all that, you know, it's it's

like when you when you think of tech and

when you think of AI and when you think

of building apps, first thing that would

come to my mind a while back is you need

to be a [ __ ] rocket scientist genius,

right? And it seems like chat GBT and

using it as a tutor to learn how to code

and doing all these things completely

changed that, right? How would you like

what would you guys say is like

obviously you're both very intelligent

[ __ ] guys who work hard and stuff

like for somebody out there who's

watching this that's inspired or maybe

wants to make an app um you know like

what we're about to talk about and app

mafia and what you guys are going to

teach people like what do you think are

like some of the main things that

allowed you to like sit down and not

just try and build me an app you know

like

bes and having a passion as well for

this is and wanting to help is big you

get kind of where I'm getting at with

this

you don't need to be a you're not a

rocket scientist

of course not um

you're a normal dude [ __ ] cared about

being healthy and want to make more

people healthy and build cali and same

thing goes you know I don't know if you

were if you're a gooner if we're but you

clearly see that there's a problem with

this and even just like a business

visionary of like oh there's opportunity

here like what do you think is like the

number one

thing that allowed you to to see this

opportunity these opportunities and and

and take them on

I'll touch on this and then you want to

take after okay so I think that there

are two points I want to touch on here

in terms of problem identification um

I'm a big believer in like find the

problems that you or the people close to

you experience

do the market research, identify the key

pain points, and then look at what other

apps in similar industries do, and

figure out how to build a solution for

the very specific problem. So, for us,

we really care about self-improvement.

It's something that we've engaged in and

and studied the content of for, you

know, for me like over a decade now,

since I was a teenager, been reading

self-help books and whatever it may be.

So, that's on the problem identification

standpoint. And then in terms of the

tangible skill set that you need, like

we didn't have hard skills going into

this, I've actually IQ tested a number

of people that I've worked with.

Wow.

Um really?

Yeah. Cuz I wanted the data. I wanted to

see what made people effective operators

and whatnot to build this sort of like a

paradigm for like who I hire and work

with in the future. And what I found

actually is not that um you know having

130 plus IQ is requisite to uh attaining

success in this space. In fact, I found

people that have as low IQs as like

around 100 that have built very

successful apps. And so if you are like

very below intelligence, it's going to

be very difficult because I do think

that there is some level of intellect

that's required to um because there is

some amount of technical uh or

technological um you know sort of sort

of uh understanding that you need to

have but beyond that it's really a

problem of agency. You need to figure

out where to identify the right

information, how to assess the the the

core problems and then see what has

worked in the past. use other apps as

case studies and then kind of rebuild

and take what has worked and then apply

it to your novel solution on the product

side. And then marketing is as simple as

identify the correct creators, identify

the correct hooks for UGC, create the

content, put it out into the world, and

continue to iterate um and double down

on what works, drive people to your app,

and then ideally you provide value to

people and you get paid in the process.

Yeah, my take is like, you know, again,

we're not rocket scientists. We weren't

extremely technical at coding. We

started somewhere. We sucked at first

for many months, many years, but we

figured it out and we learned a lot of

lessons. And you know, all the

information that you need to know to

achieve the things you want is out there

on the internet through GPT. You just

need to go out and find it

and through app mafia

and through mafia. And if you want to

get into apps specifically, the

beautiful thing about it is everything

is open sourced. If you want to see

Cali's exact funnel and how they make

$35 million a month, just download their

app,

search Cali on Tik Tok. It's all there.

That's everything. That's what the

consumer experiences and the consumer is

the person that pays. And like um final

point here within app mafia what we've

realized is we get DMs all the time of

people trying to figure out this

information in a structured manner but

we never had the economic incentive to

create a structured course with over 10

hours of content where we're diligently

planning out the different modules.

Right? So we have like starts with

ideation and then uh design development

and distribution. We never had the

economic incentive to spend tens of

hours producing it. And that's when we

all looked at each other and we were

like, "Fuck it. We should do this. We

should create this content because it's

a black box to a lot of people. And if

we can structure this and show them step

by step what our exact process is, this

will push the entire industry forward

and ideally make the massive amount of

market opportunity that exists within

the space accessible to everybody that

wants to purchase our course.

atmafia.com.

And I mean, it's great that I mean, you

know, a lot of people are like, "Oh,

he's selling a course. He's selling a

course." But like, I mean, you just you

you've heard what these [ __ ] these

[ __ ] have done. You know what I

mean? Like, clearly like they know what

they're doing. And like a lot there's a

lot of [ __ ] courses out there,

right? And there's also a lot of good

ones. I mean, it sounds like you mean

how long have you guys been working on

this course? Like

few weeks.

Few weeks. Yeah.

So, not that long. I mean, obviously the

course work itself has been done over

the years.

Now, it's compiling the process. It has

all just existed within here and then

it's like all right now let's let's

structure this and make it tangible. And

so for anyone watching this we should be

launching in two days. So this

from Thursday.

Yeah. Yeah. So so this Saturday the

23rd.

Okay. Nice. And this is on mafia.com.

Yeah. Mafia.com. You can also find us on

Instagram and Twitter.

How much do you pay for that URL?

Um about 10K. So on Instagram my handle

is BWA. on Twitter, my or X.com. My

handle is Blake Anderson W.

Yeah, I'm Alex Slater on Instagram and

then Alex Slater with two L's on

Twitter.

And then uh appmafia

on Twitter or once again just

appmafia.com.

And how is this is this going to be a

monthly recurring course? Is it going to

be a onetime buy slash here's the full

package and you will be able to know

exactly what we did in order to build

Cali in order to build Quitter in order

to build these other apps.

$2,500 for access to well over 10 hours

of course content and we're going to

continue to provide new case studies and

information most likely uh maybe like on

a monthly basis. We just update with

like what's the new state-of-the-art and

we'll just kind of add that in.

So and they'll be able to So now you

guys are the friction cutting kings. So

instead of having to spend the

thousands, whatever the hundreds of

hours you spent asking Chad GBT to tutor

you, teach you how to code and build an

app, you're going to tell them exactly

how to do it even quicker.

Let me share this real quick. This is

[ __ ] crazy. The background of people

that have worked with me, what they've

gone on to do.

Two two people, um, Alex and Evan, that

I work with on RZ GPT, they went on to

found their own app studio. They do tens

of millions of dollars a year in revenue

right now. Sarth, my CTO from UMAX.

Sarth took the playbook. Uh, love him.

Uh, he went to build with Rudy Turboarn,

which I I believe is tracking for over

$10 million this year as well. Uh,

Sebastian Turner went on to build Raise

and then a new product which I don't

Yeah, I don't know.

He's public about it.

Oh, he's public. Okay. Went on to build

claimed which is doing over $10 million

a month or excuse me, a year in revenue

right now.

You guys, I mean, there's no longer no

public. You guys, everybody's got to go.

Uh Nate, who worked with me on 10X

briefly. Nate uh just built an app

that's doing over $50,000 a month. I

just got a text from a kid yesterday who

said his studio just hit over 100,000

downloads, which is probably hundreds of

thousands of dollars uh in revenue. The

list goes on and on. I believe I've got

like five more here of people that

either have just had conversations with

me, watch my content, or worked with me

briefly that have gone on and are now

multi-millionaires just on the basis of

seeing this playbook and running it up

themselves. I mean, even Alex and

Connor, right? They saw what Zach and I

were doing with Cali. They went and ran

it up themselves. So, I mean, it's uh

So, now we're giving that information

and source to you. $2,500

out of the course,

but it's $2,500

to make millions of dollars or the

opportunity of making millions of

dollars.

Yeah. No, no guarantees, but man, if if

if

I think it's the first time someone's

ever [ __ ] tried to started selling

their course on the pod,

dude. We're new to this phase.

Yeah. No, no, it's sick, dude. You know,

honestly, like I I wouldn't I would

probably wouldn't ever allow anyone to

[ __ ] you know, do something like

that, but because clearly you guys

aren't bullshitters and I've seen what

you guys have done and like it it's

really [ __ ] cool. And like, you know,

if someone's out there is not making

content, I think, you know, making

content, getting in the internet or

building [ __ ] like what you guys are

doing, I feel like those are the two of

some of the most interesting

opportunities um in the world right now.

So, that's [ __ ] sick. It's really a

toz.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's literally from

it's just our process how we go from

coming up with the idea to designing the

product to developing it to uh doing

distribution. It's just like this is

we're provide we are not withholding any

information anything that is relevant

important and that that that we think is

top of mind that any recommendation that

we ever give to others or that we

implement within our own businesses we

are sharing.

That's [ __ ] fantastic.

Thanks.

I got a few other questions that just

lingered my mind though. But I mean,

first of all, thank you guys for coming

on and sharing all this awesome

information.

And um

yeah, at the end and in a few moments

here, maybe you'll do you'll give away

one course or whatever you want. You

don't have to. You don't have to. You

don't have to.

Yeah. No, we'll do that right now for

one person that's watching this podcast

that's made it all the way to this

point.

DM on mafia. So DMafia

onx.com. So x.com/mafia_.

Follow us. Shoot us a DM. Uh explain who

you are and why you want the free

course. um and maybe why you can't pay

for it if that's relevant. Uh we will be

giving away more to people that can't

afford it, but people that really want

to get into software. We are actually

mission driven on on making this

information as accessible as possible.

We're going to give away one free uh

access to a listener of the Daddy

Wellness or TSL podcast.

Let's go.

Just say like TSL- Daddy Wellness,

whatever.

Lit. [ __ ] awesome. Yeah. So, now I'm

thinking to myself, you guys, it's four

of you living in this [ __ ] 40 grand a

month. Plus, Jude,

how much nicotine is flowing through

this household as you guys are [ __ ]

cranking away at these apps,

dude? You know, it's cyclical for me.

It's cyclical. I um I definitely I so I

drink once a week, sometimes do uh you

know, some other drugs as well. Um but

are you like Elon where you're like

[ __ ] boofing cat and doing ecstasy?

No. No. Mo Coke is definitely my uh my

drug of choice. Dude, I commented on

Sush made a post the other It was

hilarious talking about wearing like the

Garmin watch go or maybe yesterday

wearing the Garmin watch going out.

Dude, I [ __ ]

Yeah, I'll share this. I don't really

care. Dude, I went out with my boys a

few weeks ago back in San Diego. Had the

Garmin on. Dude, my heart rate was over

130 for 12 hours straight.

It was [ __ ] crazy. Yo, one of my

buddies ended up This is really bad. I

don't I don't promote drug.

Maybe maybe if you ever if you ever try

to raise money, this could be a problem.

But

no, I don't give a [ __ ] Um, one of my

buddies, uh, dude, he ended the night

with a [ __ ] seizure cuz he did so

much.

That's not good.

Crazy. Very bad. Very, very bad.

Drugs are bad. Drugs are bad.

Drugs are very bad. But nicotine, you

know, cyclical. I haven't really been

doing it much recently. But we do love

Lucy. Shout out the founders. Shout out

John Kugan. Shout out TSL sponsorship.

Yeah, [ __ ] Lucy's the best. We got

your pouch of choice.

Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Those are really good. Zin's a little

bit more accessible like in every gas

station, but Lucy's the uh go-to.

Yeah, they've been crushing it. Yeah,

because I mean I feel like a lot of the

thing a lot like you know, let's talk

about like stereotypical tech nerds and

uh developers and [ __ ] Like we're

thinking Aderal, we're thinking

nicotine, we're thinking coffee, we're

thinking just like Doritos on your

[ __ ] desk and [ __ ] and all that

stuff. Like what's it like living in a

house? How much do you think your

efficiency has gone up moving in

together as the [ __ ] mafia?

You know, uh

you guys want to kill each other yet?

Yeah. Yeah. that. I mean, it working

with a new team is always hard, but

we're getting there. Like, we're getting

into flow. We have a private chef who

cooks for us. We're very dialed in terms

of diet, exercise, training for an Iron

Man right now.

Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got it in about 12

weeks. Just did a marathon two weeks

ago.

Nice.

Um so

um Yeah. I mean, not as efficient as we

want to be, but we're getting up there.

Yeah. And you just moved in.

Yeah, exactly. We're having like the

honeymoon phase, of course.

And we just threw a massive party. Roll

the clip.

little flip up there.

We had to recover from that. But hey,

we're getting back into things.

Yeah. I mean, that's that's what you

mean. Just moving to Miami, you're in a

new crib. Obviously, you're seeing so

much success. You got to enjoy the

fruits of your labor a bit, you know?

You know what? That's kind of what we're

trying to promote in the content as

well. Like, we all are pretty

successful, but we also live just fun

life, dude. So,

like look at the [ __ ] I mean, you

we've seen this recurring theme. I'm

moving into a house with Moose, my

brother, who's Patty, my brother. I

don't know if you know PB trading, you

know? We're all moving into

Oh, no, wait. We were uh who was

speaking to him, Zack? Yeah.

Or Connor? Someone was talking to your

brother the other day.

Maybe PB Investing in two different

PB trading is my brother, but I don't

know about PB Investing. Probably might

be similar.

I haven't heard of investing, but

official PB train. Whatever. We're

moving into this house and uh we're

super excited for it. Um which would be

sick. So I mean I mean you've seen like

these like you saw FaZe live together.

It's funny what they did. You saw like

the hype house. You see like I even even

the [ __ ] Bob house like Jesus Christ.

Like those the arch nemesis of [ __ ]

quitter and [ __ ]

We're actually going to visit the bop

house soon. like the quit a team.

That would be hilarious.

Yeah, it' be hilarious.

All this [ __ ] like dude really like and

I spoke about this to my friend Ben as

well like with with Oliv and and what

they're doing with apps and stuff. It's

like

it's obviously it's very hard to go

from, you know, doing what you're doing

to like making content. But I think

that's what make it so interesting

because like if you can just eat the

[ __ ] uh I mean dude, we were just

vlogging on the way up here. Like people

this is like at least I am someone who

has

like obviously I'm interested in the

space, right? But like this is really

interesting because this is a completely

new age, right?

You know what I mean? Young [ __ ] who

don't have all this coding experience

using these tools to build incredible

things and seeing like like this like

kind of reality TV showesque style thing

would be [ __ ] unbelievable. You guys

have You guys have If you don't do it, I

really do think we're going to be doing

vlog every other week. Probably around

an hour per vlog.

Yeah,

it'll be cool.

Just like the madness of what's going on

in the house.

Exactly.

You know,

I'm just doing fun [ __ ]

Flip around the Rari.

Yeah. Seriously. I I told you earlier

like we have all the recipes for success

like there's just

we just need to figure out like that we

just need to it's a skill you know the

same way that building an app is a skill

I think content is a skill and we just

need to train that muscle and uh and

build you guys did I mean this has been

a fantastic time on the podcast you know

great speakers and uh it's been [ __ ]

sick I actually learned so much

and I hope I hope anyone who I mean if

you made it this far into the [ __ ]

podcast shout out to you and and thanks

for tuning in and uh yeah do you guys

have any final things you may want to

leave the people with aside from you

know in two days from out. They're going

to be dropping the [ __ ] sauce. So,

yeah. Yeah. No. Um, nothing from me,

dude. It was great. Like, you're a great

great podcast host. I appreciate you

having us on. Yeah,

and I hope that everybody enjoyed.

I'll say just like watch this space. Um,

going to try and blow the internet away

and kind of create this brand new

industry. And you're hearing it here

first on the Daddy Wellness podcast. You

guys are early. Good stuff.

Traditionally, tech has been

inaccessible to the masses, and we're

looking to make it something that

everybody can get into.