Attention: Brokers. Are You Ready for the Millennials?

[Music] hi everyone and welcome to the efficiency Engineers podcast where we

ask the question is there a better way my name is Friedrich salad and in this podcast I interview leaders in insurance that challenge the industry's notorious

reputation of being slow to change and inefficient on the show today we have Frank Jason Frank is the brand new managing director

of Pietro barters A specialized local underwriter in West Flanders the company is definitely not the biggest player in Belgium but it's trusted by many Brokers for its strong knowledge of the local

market as well as working extremely efficient Frank calls it the lean mean was Flemish machine if this doesn't make you curious I don't know what will

coming from the biggest insurer in the world Allianz and now heading this hyper-efficient local player piano Partners I believe Frank has a unique point of view to help us better

understand how to do things differently in an industry that is standing still I want to know is there a better way Frank thanks for coming on the show I think this is great this is the first

time I see you in real life kind of I see your face we've been on the phone in the past that was it and I'm really looking forward to this how are you doing today

fine thanks Frederick and thanks already for having me I really like your invitation uh first of all I'd like to say to the people listening now

I'm not an engineer but I really like efficiency so that's where I come in here yeah let's say in an efficiency enthusiast

absolutely enthusiastic always yeah yeah that's what I felt already enthusiastic always that's that's why I think this is going to be fun

um so maybe let's start with you telling us a little bit about yourself because I I'm starting to get to know you but uh did I get the introduction more or less correct

um let's say um I studied law uh school so I had no intention at all to come into the insurance business and absolutely no intention uh certainly

after the fourth year I had my exam on the insurance law after that exam I got out I threw away my books I didn't burn it but I threw either of those books and

said Insurance never in my life okay so I ended up in insurance by uh by coincidence so here I am and I was

always Frank don't don't we all absolutely actually my coincidence I mean I I always say Insurance business that's a a big gaping hole you step into

it you fall into it but after three months when people provide you a big ladder to climb out you say nah guys I'm having fun so that's where I am now so

uh I started out as a sales guy I always went into insurance I worked with Brokers uh retail Brokers so let's say uh SME Brokers make call broken then I

headed from the plv group to uh Allianz uh really learned a lot there the great College uh very International firm also and as you said now I'm playing it

locally and I'm having a lot of fun because you mentioned it already it's a it's a lean and mean machine and it's talking about efficiency and providing

broker real service and that's where we come in so that's why I took the step uh because some people said to me Frank what are you doing uh going from an

international big firm to that local player in godrej as we call it that's between Bridges Sanders and the Russell and and against and people say what what exactly are you doing there and I'm

saying I'm helping out Brokers to provide service so you didn't intend to go into Insurance then coincidentally you landed in insurance I feel that's that's the only thing I hear from people

also from guests on the podcast like they one of the previous guests also came from law so I I like I like that connection already but then you stay in insurance and then you must have some vision and some goal in front of you

right well I gotta be honest when I stepped into the business I came out of school so I I think you know the world

you're 24 years old you think you have a lot of experience you don't have any experience of course uh I stepped into that business um really curious because I'm a curious

guy and curiosity kills the cats but also created a lot of inventions so um I was really curious and I was a bit disappointed and my disappointment

came from seeing that it was an old business but an intelligent business and a very important business because I said we

always have the the owner of helping people I'll be there with the three most important things in their life first of all their own life life insurance

their liabilities and their properties so these three things those are the main things in let's say a human life when you look at it from an economic View we

do that we are able to do that we can do that so we always work with four people that's that's the challenge you know it's people's business and I know

everybody uses that word but it's people's business in the broadest sense of the world so that's what I like I was this a bit disappointed when I saw

the industry was let's say slow it's a slow business it's a big business it's intelligent business but it's a really slow non-disruptive business

when I talk to you it's about doing things in a new way in a very efficient way and creating efficiency like you said that's going forward in a non-disruptive way

in insurance so that's a bit slow and that was my biggest disappointment but also my biggest let's say view on that insurance world it's really

slow but really big and intelligent so I want to move forward I have this small company that's really strives for efficiency and that's all

we're doing here is for our Brokers so I'm still working with four Brokers for the customer but we have to do it in another way and that's why we are

talking also about efficiency so that's the the reason I'm really happy to be here yeah yeah there's I mean there's one thing is the the slowness of the

industry but the other the back side of the coin is that there's so much still to happen and and the opportunity is huge and when the change will happen it

will impact every single life and every single person and that is I think the the beauty of of the insurance industry as a whole so I I can relate with that but what do you what do you think is

holding us back quite a lot of things first of all conservatism uh you know the defensive wave people are it's it's holding back

uh changes something different and something different can be dangerous it's it's the way we survive of course uh you know uh I always make the

and comparison with The Moose in Canada yeah the Big Moose things he's still Master Chief in nature and when he's on the on the railway side he's on the

railroad tracks and there's a train coming in he thinks I'm the boss around here you know so he keeps standing on the the railway of course he gets hit by

the the train and he's run over by the train but he thought he was the boss he was still the boss you know so that's the the Nature's way of doing things

being conservative and careful and careful we should be but we also have to think forwards because if you don't think forward you're not being careful you know you will miss out on things

and to me that's important so that's the reason we have to do that and people are holding us back from different Corners first of all when you work with Brokers you have a

triangle you are the insurance company you work with Brokers they are the the intermediary and then you have the customer you know that's a a very

important triangle and that triangle needs to cooperate and I think that cooperation is not perfect as it is today because

there's a there's some mistrust sometimes in in that way of working together and I think the trust should be built by talking about it and going

forward together to serve our joint customer and to me that is my main goal to show the broker that we want to cooperate and provide them the service

that he or she needs to be there tomorrow and the day after tomorrow with modern service because that's what people are expecting and then yesterday

I had a seminar and they were talking about the Starbucks experience everybody knows it everybody thinks it's normal that you take the train in Brussels and you go to Lyon in France

you have a three hour trip and you order your let's say coffee latte Elio when you get there when you order it you get notified an hour later they say we did not forget

you Frank you'll get your coffee latte within two hours you step out of the train they know it because they are connected with the train schedule they say friend within two minutes you will

have your coffee latte in Insurance that's absolutely not the case but it will be the case and the moment you are not ready for that I'm

not willing to do that the clients will lose you and you will lose the client so that is our main way to go but it's a long way and we have to do it step by

step because insurance industry is a slow industry and non-disruptive but we should take steps now because otherwise we will let's say stable forward and

that's not the way to go I think we'll get to that point where uh and we're not there yet that a pivotal point where um not changing means losing vast

amounts of customers and today maybe there's some loss here and there but in in general I feel portfolios are quite stable still

and Challengers are only ramping up but at some point we'll see we'll see this taking place we'll see this in effect what you just described this this experience and once the

the End customer has transformed their expectations that's when I will I think we will see change at scale

what is making you at Vietnam Partners in a strong position to be driving this change why do you think you'll succeed

first of all I'll get back to what I said just uh before the last question uh Frederick it's always the customer is always right you know uh it there's no

customer that's going into a broker office and says I now I want the policy coming from pietan Partners they just don't say that it's the broker that makes the choice for the customer yes

but if the customer stops coming in to the broker office because he or she does not get the sales she is used to from other companies then we will both lose clients and

customers and that's that's something we should really care about I think we already have a lot in store as being played and partners because we

have a full API based way of working by that I mean we created an ecosystem a few years ago when we had to make tough

decisions on how to move forward the it way I mean and there we opted for the API way and API is just a way of creating an

ecosystem that's like a kind of a puzzle but you can extend the puzzle and you can create a puzzle that is connected with other people

for us that's the broker office if a broker is creating something let's say a customer Zone and the clients has a link with Clinton

Partners via the broker and I stress this via the broker office then in the back we can create let's say in

conjunction with the broker again in the real time everything the broker needs from us coming from us to the customer I give you a small example

you have a fire policy for your for your own private house and you have a policy with theater partners a broker constructs a customer's own

that customer is moving to a another address so moving out he enforce his broker and says okay I go to my customer Zone and I put in the new address

if the broker has this system that is connected with this brm CRM system then

when the clients touches enter by giving his new address the new policy is in real time created in our back office and

on immediately going to the broker the customer only sees his broker his broker office his customer Zone and one minute later he receives the new

property policy written on his new or her new address coming again from the broker but in the back it's better partners that creates that magic and

that is the way we want to surprise people in a positive way by providing customer service to the broker because the broker is always in between so I

think that's my dream we have the building blocks to do that and we will create new building blocks to go even further for that and that's my dream to

do that together with the broker but my let's say intention is also to convince the broker to do that because in a few years this will be mandatory to really

keep the attention coming from the customer dear broker clients today already understand this today or are you simply prefer preparing for

the future are you anticipating future Behavior by getting the right tools and processes in place today

what's what's been the feedback um let's be very clear on this we're a bit too early with this and a bit too early

to be brought fully successful and by that I mean that's the broker on General is not really

thinking about this way of processing data and policies through and for the customers that doesn't mean it you do not have to be ready

we are already preparing for a future with the broker coming to the customer from and to the customer again via the broker but right now the brokers

who are digitalized and digitalization because a lot of people use the word paperless we already talked about that Frederick in our in our last call

it's a very difficult word to use if you say paperless for me that's really Staples that means no paper no paper at

all that means you're fully digitized and digitalization is a difficult word because it it can't be half digitalized it should be 100

that 100 is still not rich because I think the Brokers are really taking steps forward which is very important and I'm really glad to see that happening

but you have to create more than just your own brm CRM system for your customers in your own broker office you have to be ready to talk to the outside world and also talk to your providers

meaning the insurance companies so you also as a broker you need to think about the ecosystem also you know Lego system we created that ecosystem and what is an

ecosystem that's a system that can keep up connections with other systems that's why it's called an ecosystem you know it talks to things and our goal is to let

our ecosystem let's say seamlessly talk to the broker system and then the broker can communicate to his or her customer that's the dream so right now to answer

your question directly I don't think we need the Brokers need to step up and on this they need to do it not because we do it and we think they should do it

it's what the customers are demanding and if I can say one thing I think 95 of the Brokers are not ready to talk

to the Millennials about insurance and to deal with the millennial about insurance and the millennial is becoming the next biggest customer of course so they should be ready and they should be ready together

and I think that's is holding us back a bit on the other hand we are very very proud of what we already achieved in the back because we are ready for that future and

that is my big goal to show brokers we are a partner for your future and that's where we really want to be a player

I see I understand now you you mentioned something uh that I think is interesting you were talking about ecosystem and putting those

Tools in place that communicate with each other that evolve separately but that provides value as an end-to-end chain and I feel that's where pieterm

partnes has been investing to prepare for Millennials and other disruptive changes but why do you why do you think the

ecosystem is such a such an important part of the strategy why can't you as an insurance company

just buy a single stack technology that solves those needs that's a very hard question because a lot of consultants get that question uh Frederick and they get paid quite a lot to answer that

question but it's always with ifs and bits because nobody is having that crystal ball in their hands of course neither have I uh because otherwise I'll do fill

out eight numbers winning the big lottery and I will say Frederick goodbye a lot of luck with your podcast on Insurance and financial business but

that crystal ball you can mitigate that crystal ball situation because an ecosystem the difference between an ecosystem and

something that you take in as a whole is the way you can move forward or backwards even to the left and to the right by that I mean

if you buy a certain let's say frame system yeah a certain Mainframe or whatever it is it's a closed system and you can

you have that square of the system where it can move in industrial ballpark you know that's your ballpark and then you

have to pay for that maybe uh 5 15 20 years and you're stuck to that system you're stuck to that ballpark and sometimes they create a little new ballpark next to it but it's still that

ballpark you know an ecosystem that's a ballpark without any limits you know you create an ecosystem because you believe you have

some things you need to take care of in a very digital and automated way but sometimes going forward you're saying hmm

maybe we should do that also and an ecosystem needs to talk with other people in your value chain and in your end-to-end system and I always see it and to enter uh we are we are not even

the highest end because you have reinsurance a lot of things above you but going through the broker to the End customer you need to have as I said a

communication system between the three parts of your triangle being the broker the customer and the insurance company and you can only do

that with an ecosystem there is no broker that's going to invest in a system that talks with a certain ballpark from one insurer because you have to invest in 10

ballparks then if you're broken you have to create something that's let's say very flexible and also reusable and I think that

that's that that's what's really attracted me that's also the reason I was very curious about getting partners the inside part then

and then yeah then I asked the questions uh guys are you ready for the future and which steps did you already take and then I saw the API based system and

that's a very flexible system that's a I I knew that system but I did not know it was already implemented within Piet and partners and that's really made me

curious and when I saw that I was surprised even by how far they took it because every decision we take within pet and partners is having two big

conditions first of all does it help the broker does it provide the service to the broker also for the customer of course

and next to that can we achieve this in real time can we create something real time if those two conditions are not met we don't do it so that's just where we go forward and

we will keep going forward in order to be ready for that future so why why is real time so important if you if you've optimized for efficiency like what

what should be done with all that time and and and that that what what you save them like what how does that impact the business eventually

real time is also an efficiency filter because we are on the podcast named efficiency Engineers Frederick and when

you discuss things on how to automate how to create new tools how to create new services if you think with the filter in your heads real time

then you know it has to be perfectly automated end to end you know from the first step to the last step if there is a middle step that cannot be automated

it cannot be done in real time then your result will never be a real time so real time is a way of thinking about

processes also and Automation and digitalization so it creates a very healthy I call it filter in your head

when you're judging should we take this step do we need to do that if it's not met with real-time efficiency then it's just not efficient enough how do you decide what should be

automated and what not it's really simple uh a monkey job sir yeah yeah a monkey is a very intelligent being you know so uh we're not far off

from the monkey so uh I really like biology uh so I had the greatest respect for mammals and certainly for primates so we are primates as being human beings

where we are more let's say Advanced of course uh regarding to the Moose we don't stand on the railway tracks when you see a train coming we get away from the from the train you know

but having said that people are all always thinking about assist systems what is now it's going

okay so why change it you need to think forwards because you get eaten up by today if you don't do that

um and I think we should go further and going further means thinking about real Automation and

automation is about having real stupid jobs really stupid jobs meaning I know the steps and I have to put in the computer function nine function four

function 3 and then Function One if you don't automate that then you lose time energy work pleasure and also money of course

so if you can if you if you can pull up every step that is very well known and

there does not have there isn't any part of thinking using your healthy brain on things then you should automate it and that's what we always do the only thing

that stands between us and automating everything is time and money friendly because we have a lot of things we can automate we want to automate that you have to make the right choices

namely what's the most important step now we can provide to our Brokers within let's say a few months a time leaving

space for human creativity to flourish because that's what people are really good at actually and that's what going to set us apart from machines from

computers in the future and I think we should be very aware of that and we should spend resources also on creating that awareness around it because frankly

what I I'm hearing many different things from insurance companies at conferences that one of one of the things that should be addressed first is data

literacy and Technology literacy and understanding that robots are not necessarily here to take our jobs but it's about Job pleasure you mentioned it and I want to zoom in on

that job pleasure it's what I heard is that it's one of the things that brought you from an international organization like Allianz to Vietnam when you looked under

the hood and you saw technology and the processes that were in place you were you were tempted to you were you were convinced to to join this player because you see you see Cool Tech

and you think hey this is where where I can flourish because this is where I can do a heck of a job and then you are one you're you're a high potential in the insurance industry but what I'm hearing

is that it's increasingly difficult to find talent and find the right people for the job in this industry so I'm wondering

to what extent is technology going to play a role in that yeah to use a buzzword in that word for talent um if you if you have backwards

technology and you're you're you're using this software field that feels like Windows 95 I think you're gonna have a pretty hard

time finding Forward Thinking people that really drive your business and that also drives the change that you need to keep up with the markets is this also your experience do you do

you have any any ideas on that yeah uh quite a lot of all these uh um so um first of all talking about the war on talents uh Frederick there's a

world talent in every sector we have and the Sea uh it's not all it's not only an insurance uh the first big problem in the insurance business is um

people talk about making it sexy and you know young people will not choose insurance normally as a career because they don't know it they don't know they

don't see what is happening there you know and also in the customer experience we are not providing any proof of sexiness you know uh so what how can we

reach out to young people when they when we don't reach out to them you know so that's the first problem secondly it's a very diverse business and it's

it's really changing now and when I came to create Empires I I really met a lot of people new people of course and I had a conversation with everybody individually and the first

thing that struck me was they were really warm people they stood up for their teams for the company and you know

uh that's being that's engagement and being engaged is really really important that's that's the stuff that's uh really great teams are made of they're being

engaged and working for each other with each other but also for each other so a lot of those people were talking to me about my brokers by Brokers you know my

Brokers my customer that's taking responsibility wanting to do the job very right and very good on the other hand I also said to those people this is

great stuff this is the stuff we can use to go forward that we also meet need to be realistic um when we talk about technology and

going forward you need to make changes so you need to make those changes but as I always say when you make changes you need to tell people why yeah you

have to show them the picture also why are you doing things then you should you show the how and then show the what's you know those are the small things the

the steps you're going to take but you need to have everybody on the team on the Y showing the y means they know we do it

for our customers you know my broker we do it for our Brokers huh if you do it for the broker then you know it's going to be okay because the broker will appreciate that and also the customer

but let me be clear on one thing also if we take steps on digitizing automating things it's not to cut down on people it's to be more efficient and

do more business with the people we have because we have great people but we want to do more business and how can you do more business with the same means let's say the same people the same team then

you have to automate things so it's a means to do more business and people will not have to do let's say the stupid jobs the monkey jobs anymore because

they will interact with brokers in a better way in a in a more fun way you know helping providing Solutions real solutions for the program because

I always say we keep we pick up our telephone that's what we do it's uh very rare in the market that ensures to pick up the phone we do that but when you

pick up the phone that means two things you have a broker that calls us in these times that means a big cry for help because

there's all that information on the website uh it's it's fully automated and then they still make a call so that means mostly in most cases a big shout

out for help if you can help and provide the solution to people that moment then we are a real partner as we said in our Baseline for

the broker so that is why we automate things it's to create more possibilities to interact in a real way with the broker also by phone having real contact

m here I'm going to take the next step here if you're going to bring in new people young people people from other sectors if you want to take them in then

you will have to show them that plan also because you need to have a plan for people to join your team if the team does not have a plan a lot of people say nah

I don't buy it you know I will not take the risk of going there if there's not a plan that's future proof so it's also very important to do that and to show

that to people first of all your own people of course the team needs to be in it but next if you're taking new people and you want to convince new people

within the world of talent then you have to show them a real future proof plan that's also fun to work with it's a it's a human business it's it's insurance is

very much a human business I had someone recently tell me insurance industry is the only industry today that's still

primarily relies on human relationships and networks to run its business and to grow its business and I think that's

that's very relevant to everything you just mentioned it's why maybe things are moving a bit slower but it's also because of of of its nature

and people want and need this human support when when they're vulnerable or when they're when they're crying for help

and this should very much still be the focus of of insurance and technology is just a way to to support that to support

those human connections and honestly if so I'm coming from this sexy background data AI technology clouds blah blah blah

now since since a bit over a year I'm completely swallowed in the insurance industry and I have to admit for me it was also

eye-opening to feel how the warmth of the industry as you mentioned the way people collaborate together there's positivity there is there there's there

is warmth in in connecting and helping each other out with the final aim of helping people when they're with their risk with their liabilities with their property

and and I think that's that's a very beautiful feature of this industry and therefore it's probably a little bit underrated for people that are not in it but that's I guess that's just my two

cents and and recent experience we're um we're nearing the end but I've one more question that I want to ask you so you're from from everything I heard you're this this positive

person you you see things positively your your convinced and ambitious wanting to drive change but is there anything that you find more

difficult is there what what's keeping you awake at night where where do you maybe sometimes lose lose lose fate or lose lose lose your energy

or is it all just a matter of time driving in the right direction and fixing what's what needs fixing cool it's a good question uh the close is of

uh Frederick but um first of all I never lose sleep uh I'm I'm a very I'm not a live sleeper my wife is a live sleeper she's very

jealous of my let's say sleep Behavior I don't need a lot of sleep but when I sleep I sleep uh even when the kids were little I slept even when there's

let's say turmoil I sleep very very well at night on the other hand um I'm also I also said I'm very curious you know and I also want to learn

and when you combine that you see Solutions in life and not only in your professional life but also in your private life I'm an optimist and yes I

know optimism is a moral duty blah blah blah but I'm a real Optimist because I think in Solutions when people call me

back in the days when I was called the inspector and they called me and I said Frank Frank problems problems I said yes

okay so you're 100 certain we need to have a job here thank you for that so if there's a situation people say we have a situation when I always says

there is a solution there are different solutions for a situation when you're in this slow business I already mentioned and you know that you're intermediary is

not really lying awake at night like you just said uh about going full digital and going even faster

that's the concern I have but but it's also my responsibility to show people that there are means and solutions to go forward in a fast way in a very digital

way without losing the human component because I always talk the broker I fully believe in the broker but the broker really

needs to prove his or her added value to a customer and be there and by providing services that will facilitate that added value and the way of showing that to

your customer and letting it really feel into their lives you know touching their lives by informing them keeping them awake showing things

reassuring them in a very positive way also in a digital way and I think I should not least lose my sleep I should sleep less to create to have more

time to create more solutions for uh for Brokers so yes are very positive but I'm also realistic that they'll need there are steps that

need to be taken in a fast way because at a certain moment there's an acceleration in the demands and if you don't pick up speed now

you'll you will have a gap that's two two whites to pick up on so that's my message to everybody absolutely there are solutions and the broker will always

have their place for people because people are a bit let's say afraid of insurance because they don't know the business but we are there to back them up in their life for their liabilities

and also for their property and that's what we do and that's what we will keep on doing in the right and different way also for the future for me personally curiosity is one of

the most important values so I I really uh can can relate and testify for that I think people I think the industry needs more people like you Frank who are

curious who are brave and optimistic about the changes that are coming if I were a broker I trust you with my business it's been a pleasure to to have

you here Frank I've uh maybe we can do this over one day and I really look forward to to meeting you also In the Flesh in person very soon thanks so much for coming on the show it was my

pleasure Frederick thank you for having me again

have a nice day bye-bye bye

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