AVOID Manifesting TOXIC Love & Find Inner Peace w/ Liz Gilbert “This Almost Killed Me”

I've spoken very openly about identifying as a sex and love addict I was trying to find what is the formula who do I have to connect with that this

is going to work that this great echoing god-sized hole within me this deep un solvable problem of never feeling like there's enough love Elizabeth Gilbert

she is the number one New York Times bestselling author of big magic and Eat Pray Love author seeker and spiritual Trailblazer Elizabeth Gilbert is here and I'm a good manifestor you're a good

manifestor too in the realm of romantic and intimate connection I've gotten what I wanted I've gotten who I wanted at times and it's almost killed me what

would unconditional love want you to know today if it could speak to you it's gotten me through the hardest things in my life it's gotten me through two divorces it's gotten me through an addiction crisis it's gotten me through

the death of the most important person in my life this is who you are you are this being who is loved and that is it that's beautiful I lost myself in that before she died so I lost both of us it

lost me and I lost her it's like the death was almost an afterthought to the great loss of both of us to our own unhal Trolla wow so

you're looking for people to be the solution but it wasn't what was the solution the solution is welcome everyone to the school of greatness very excited about our guest

we have the inspiring ing Liz Gilbert who I feel like we've only hung out a four times maybe I don't know but for whatever reason I feel very connected to you I feel like you're like a sis a

bigger sister to me I feel a sense of maybe everyone says that about you because they're they're so connected to your message and your words and your content and your books probably everyone says that about you like you they feel

like they know you very well but I truly feel energetically that we have a great connection and I hope that we can hang out more in the future cuz it's been almost 7 years since I've seen you I

know isn't that crazy crazy um it's so hard to believe I feel the same way about you and if I had the height and strength and capacity to pick you up the way you always pick me up when you see

me I would pick you up as my baby brother so I just want you to know that I'm doing that in my heart even if I can't physically do it you pick me up emotionally there we go you you pick me up with your heart I love that I love

that I'm so excited that you were we're doing this cuz the last time you won was what seven eight years ago I guess I think it was like eight years ago a while ago a lot has happened in your

life yeah um I reference you a lot in different interviews because you for a number of reasons but the one reason I remember you specifically saying I can't remember if it was a TED talk or if you

said it on my show but I remember you talking about after Eat Pray Love came out you know maybe it was a year or two later you thinking and saying like this may be

my biggest hit ever and being hard to like how do you bounce back after a big success so I referen that a lot cuz I think when people kind of make a big hit that seems like out of nowhere I always

say go listen to what Liz talks about because she's an expert in this subject and how to really create an identity for yourself after a big success or a big hit and things like that so I reference

you a lot but today I want to talk about uh love love addiction overcoming love addiction um manifesting love and all

these things that you're an expert now I guess from the different ups and downs in love and relationships challenges beauties that you've been through and it's been an interesting Journey for you

in the last seven years where were they 10 years I guess like 54 years but in terms of like what you've learned about love attracting

love uncoupling you know addiction all these different things which I don't think people thought you were know knew you as but now you're

starting to speak about more you got an amazing platform these love letters that you've been putting out in the world for the last year as well that's kind of like I guess your therapy of expressing some of these things and allowing people

to express their definition of love and their life and love can you share first about that and what that is and then I'd love for you to

share afterwards kind of your three big lessons about love and love addiction that you've learned about in the last few years great let's go let's go right into Do It um so let me start by talking

about this project that I've been doing that you're going to be part of that makes me so happy and it's on substack which is a um a sort of social media

blogging platform that a lot of writers are shifting to recently as a way of getting away from the venomous poisonous snake that is social media that has infected all of our brains a way to um

it's almost like a reverse technology it's like 1990s blogging um and and I I've been looking for ways to get off social media well at the same time being able to connect with people and I've

also been looking for ways to teach this practice that I've been doing for almost 20 years that is the foundational spiritual practice of my life and that

is every morning I write myself a letter from the spirit of unconditional love starting with this prompt um and the prompt is dear love what would you have me know

today and and then imagining it starts as an act of imagination but over time it actually becomes an act of listening and sort of downloading but let's say we

start with imagination What would unconditional love want you to know today if if it could speak to you and

and it's so extraordinarily healing it's so the opposite of the perfectionistic brutal I call it the internal terrorist selft talk um that most of us were

raised to think is a perfectly normal way to to talk to ourselves and what tends to come out in those letters is this Spirit of tremendous gentleness of

you're perfect just the way you are I've got you I'm with you it's all the things that essentially I've always wished that somebody else would say to me like a mother or father would say to a mother a

father a partner a friend you know that somebody would just say like I've got you and I'm here with you and I'm not going anywhere and you actually don't

need to improve or change or perfect yourself in order to earn this love it can't be earned it can't be lost it's got nothing to do with performance it's

just your Birthright like I've this is this is who you are you are this being who is loved and that is it and I can't hear it enough you know um and it's

gotten me through the hardest things in my life it's gotten me through two divorces it's gotten me through an addiction crisis it's gotten me through the death of the most important person in my life

like through all of this one day at a time there has been this voice that's accessible that's like it's all right it's all right you it doesn't matter I don't need you to succeed I don't need

you to not fail so I started this substack community called Letters From Love where I'm teaching people how to do this practice how to write themselves letters from unconditional love and it

is so astonishing one of the things that I find incredible about it we've got it's been 13 months since I started it we have almost 130,000 people doing this now and they post their letters on this

newsletter so I can read the letters that unconditional love is writing to them and here's the wild thing they're hearing the same voice I'm hearing which makes me think like oh we're all tuning

into the same radio station something is saying to all of us you're my child you're my beloved you can't do this

wrong um I've got you it doesn't matter I'm right here and and it's so beautiful to see this messaging being echoed across all of these people who need it just as much as

I need it as much as we all need it wow who do you think is saying this to you the

cosmos you know I I think love is saying it what is love I think we know it when we hear it um I think there have been

times when I've asked that voice are you God and it has said no I'm love I'm included in God and I've said to that voice

sometimes are you rehea my partner who died seven years ago and it says no I'm love I was included in rehea interesting but I'm not rehea God Is Bigger than

that God I think is more than just love um I think God is the great mystery that's beyond the beyond the Beyond but

love is is something else um and I think a lot of times I've tried to sort of game I've tried to sort of game it by treating it like it is God and saying

like when I especially when I'm in the midst of a terrible crisis or a horrible dilemma saying to it what's going to happen how is this going to end like what does the future hold but love can't answer that no it's not it's and love

has said to me very directly that's not my department I'm not God it's not my department I don't know I have no idea what the future holds but I know that I'll be with you through it like you want what whatever is coming you won't

go through it alone even if everyone else leaves even if you end up living under a bridge wearing a plastic bag and spitting at people who walk by I'll be

with you in that wow like so whatever happens like no matter how disastrous it'll be and I remember one time in a moment of terrible crisis saying to love

on the page when will this end and how will it end and love was like I don't have any more of an idea than you do but I'm with you and I remember in my anger saying if you can't tell me how this is

going to end and you can't tell me when this is going to end and you can't tell me what to do what use are you and love said I am company and comfort in your darkest

hour so that you don't have to go through this alone and I've learned so much about how to be present to people when they are in their Darkest Hour through the way that unconditional love

speaks to me I can now sit with somebody when they're in their deepest emergency and they're asking those questions why is this happening when is this going to end what am I supposed to do and instead

of Leaping into my codependent advice giving which is always driven by Panic on my part I can actually access that voice that says I actually don't know I

don't know what's going to happen I don't know when this is going to end but I'm here with you yeah I'm here for you right now I'm here with you yeah yeah wow it's interesting what's coming up

for me is two things that you're saying all this I grew up in a Christian religion that on the wall it just said God is love so every time I went to church I just saw God is love just right

in front constantly and um but what I'm hearing you say God might be L but love doesn't mean it's God right it's part of God what I'm hear God is a lot of things yeah yeah yeah exactly including a big

question mark yeah exactly right and love is a very specific thing yeah exactly and another thing that's coming up for me is about three and a half four years ago I started doing my own healing

Journey I've been on a healing Journey for 10 years really but three and a half four years ago I went on a deeper journey to really heal the inner child

inside of me the parts of me that I thought I'd done the healing work because I started opening up about sexual abuse you know 10 years ago and I thought I'd done the work but I hadn't

really done it and weekly I was seeing a coach with therapist to support the journey for me to heal about three and a half four years

ago and after after about 6 months um she had me do an exercise where I was alone you know in my bed and I was reconnecting literally with the

5-year-old and me right in front of me like I put myself in a spiritual ceremony to see you know 5-year-old Lewis and all the fears and insecurities

and doubts and uncertainties that he had therefore I had have and I created a new relationship with

him to where I said I've got you I'm here for you even if we're alone in the side of a bridge spitting a people as an adult in this relationship I am now here

for you I've got your back whereas I've been carrying this child inside of me and just he was still wounded and afraid but I didn't have his back and I started

to learn how to heal man create meaning to where I was able to integrate him in me and love him fully and I think most of my life I was angry at the past and

it doesn't mean I still don't like things that happened but I learned to love all the parts of me which creat more peace inside of me and that's just something that was coming up for me

those two things as you were speaking about this you know even if we're alone like love is going to be there and I think how have you learned to cultivate the love so that you can actually

receive it and know that you are loved the word I'm hearing right now as I and I love that you share this with people especially for the men who follow you

it's so important and the word I'm hearing is trust um and when I met my own inner wounded

child and did a very similar kind of work and looked into her eyes she had the stare of a like three tours of Duty

Soldier wow very trauma PTSD and worse hopeless really where do you think that came from that trauma constant

reband so every time I abandon myself I abandon that kid and the way that I've dealt with her pain and her trauma and her need and her insecurity and her desire to have somebody love her is to

try to Outsource it like I got to make somebody I got to find somebody who's going to take care of this kid you know and and I'll do whatever I need to do you know physically sexually emotionally

like what do you whatever you need me to perform so that you step in the role of the caregiver of that child interesting and so I'm constantly trying to find someone who will take that on because

for most of my life I felt like she was too much for me all because she was too insecure she was too frightened she was too you know and I'm like here you here you do I'm constantly handing her off to

people really and so the adult you never took care of her no I kept trying to get other people to do it wow you know and then and then re and then recreating the abandonment wound and then recreating

the rage at who's got me right because constantly being like damn I thought that person had me and they don't and and then getting really angry when

people would say you have to learn how to love yourself because I was like I want someone else to do this like I've been taking care of this kid I was told from very early childhood you're on your own take care of yourself like I don't

want to hear that message again you're on your own take care of your I want you take care of me like I'm tired you do it and that's a very understandable thing to

want but the problem with that is that I keep setting that kid up to get abandoned again wow and until I took

full stewardship for her and said okay I've got you like what you always needed was an adult for whom you were their

first second last and final priority right so you are now my priority and one of the things when when I had a conversation with my inner child one of the things she said to me was I don't

trust you because you constantly you will always abandon me to make everyone in the family feel comfortable you'll always abandon me to get approval from other people you'll

always abandon me to take care of others and I was like kid you are absolutely right about that wow and I'm not asking you to trust me because you shouldn't

and and I have done that again and again and again but I'm asking you to watch me like they say to children like don't tell them to trust you just let them see you do things that are trustworthy cons

we're changing the rules around here wow um and every time I set a boundary every time I don't allow us to be in the room with a toxic or abusive person every time I don't people please every time I

say no and prioritize our self-care that kid is like oh wait you really do have my back I believe you more and more like yeah you really are my mom you know I'm like yeah I am gosh we're in such a

similar Journey right now when did this start this breakthrough start for you like when you started to say okay I have to start showing my inner child that I am trustworthy over time when was that

breakthrough like four years ago I started um I've been in 12-step recovery for a while but I started going to Aca adult children of alcoholic and dysfunctional families and that's what

ACA is all about it's like all about reparenting and it's really traumatizing work like I've never seen anyone go through the ACA 12 steps and work the

ACA program where they didn't unleash just everything they never wanted to feel again all the places you the last place you want to look the last thing you want to see the last it's like no

I've spent my entire life building a like Chernobyl bunker around this to make sure this stuff never ever comes out and in that program it's like well we're going to have all that come out um

and then we're going to teach you it's almost like I think of the ACA work as like the way I see it like they talk about the inner child and the inner teenager so I've got an inner child who

I'm constantly reab andon and then I've got an inner teenager who's furious at me for constantly rebanding the child who wants to act out in all sorts of teenager ways who's like well I know how

to feel better you know this substance this person this activity you know and like so it's it's reestablishing I'm learning how to parent a child and a teenager and essentially I'm like a dead

beat mom who's like been off you know just like doing really dumb with like a bunch of very unsavory characters and leaving these kids alone and now I've been like reunited with my kids and I'm

like okay we're all going to learn how to be a family now and it's like I'm going to the YMCA and taking parenting classes that's what I feel like ACA is and learning how to be responsible to

myself rather than constantly wanting to Outsource that responsibility to somebody else are you diving into a lot of dih schwarts of stuff with internal love love love him yeah absolutely and

it's it's painful oh my go and it's painful like it's painful to have these parts who don't trust me although they do now you know and when I when I do my

old tricks of like overworking serving other people more than myself self- abandoning my teenager shows up and she's like I can't believe you just said

yes to these and you're not even taking care of us and I'm like you're right you're right I'm doing it again still learning how to be a parent let me cancel some stuff you know like gosh man

this sounds this sounds so familiar for just what I've been going through because I think it sounds like for you has been similar to me is um when you feel not enough or you feel

like you've been abandoned you really want a people please and over people please and change who you are so that other people like you or love you or will be with you right what do I have to do to get know

right anything anything it was it was one of the most painful things that I've had to learn which is to say no over the last four years and it was it kind of all came at once I realized this and

started the healing journey I was like I am doing so many things I don't want to do or that my inner child or teenager doesn't want to do but I do them because of old patterns and old habits and it it

was about a year and a half of me saying no and kind of like oh just the the emotions of like what are they going to think and people aren't liking me and they're getting set at me and all these things and just being firm in that where

I created my own boundary and four years ago I used to get like rashes around my body it was almost like the inner child was screaming at me and I remember being like do I have some disease or something

and I got every test every allergy test I could do blood work sexual disease test I did everything and I was clean and I go what is wrong why am I have these rashes just coming out everywhere

and right when I started the boundary setting process it went away M and my therapist is like this is the child inside of you screaming trying to get your attention crawling out of your skin

to crawling out of your skin for you to create boundaries for all of you as weird as this might sound does sound weird to me Louis I know but for someone watching like what are you talking about these people inside of you but like the

5-year-old the 8-year-old the 16-year-old that's like screaming at me as an adult like help us take care of us not everyone else we need you yeah don't

go please these people please us first and you might upset people or they may not like you or wouldn't be your friends but at least you're friends with all of you first and I think that was one of the hardest lessons in the last four

years is upsetting and disappointing so many people it's so hard and shrinking my friend group to like five friends that I hang out with consistently you know and just being like okay if these people don't understand I'm going to

have a good intention and do the best I can but I can't please everyone all the time sometimes I can and I'll show up in certain moments but not yes yes yes all day long yeah and it's been a beautiful

painful but beautiful and peaceful other side then the more I practice it the better I feel but it's still not easy can I ask you a question have you found that there are

some people who when you say listen I have to say no to this because I'm So overextended and I've been getting sick and I need to rest and I need to take care of myself that they're like I'm so

proud of you yeah of course yeah yeah yeah those are your friends yeah of course yeah don't take it personally yeah yeah and same thing every time a friend says no I'm like yeah I'm so happy for you know right yeah yeah even

like here's a good example you know the the letters of Love Like that's something I think I agreed to like I don't know six weeks ago but I was like oh man I've got my events so I need to make sure that can I get it done before

the event and I was just like okay if I have to delay this and I'll do it after the event and if Liz is upset then she's upset but I've got to take care of me even it's a little thing you probably think about it right but it's like we've

got to make sure we're taking care of ourselves and and really communicate yes as it Nos and be okay if people are disappointed or not and just be okay with them being

upset you know why this becomes a community service um because for anybody who's like that just sounds like a very self-absorbed way to live I heard somebody say something recently in a

12-step meeting and I was like whoa that is so accurate the greatest harm that I've ever done to other people was through me not knowing how to take care of myself [Music]

because if I don't take care of myself a few things are going to happen I'm going to lose my mind um I'm going to become super needy super clingy and super

manipulative because I'm going to try to get my needs met through you and that means I'm going to be

objectifying you and using you as a parental replacement a like a a sex toy a sleeping pill

an unpaid therapist you know whatever the need this huge yawning need in me I will parts of me will go out there and try to get that need met you know so either I can figure out how to get that

need met or like that teenager is going to figure out how to get that need met and all the amends that I've ever had to make to anybody in my life for the grave harm that I brought to them were because

I didn't know how to take care of myself really and and so I had harmed them um blamed them used used them manipulated them you know tried to force them to be

something that they couldn't be become infuriated and enraged when they couldn't do it when they couldn't deliver cheated on them because if they couldn't do it I'm going to go find somebody else who can you know like all

of it and so where self-care becomes not so much a sort of new age catch word but a but a deeply

humanitarian public service is Byron Katie said it so well nobody is safe from me when I need them that much nobody is safe from me right so I

actually want as as somebody who loves genuinely loves Humanity I want to be somebody who people are safe around and if I'm not taking care of myself I am an unsafe human being for anybody to be in

any relationship with whether it's a momentary relationship or or a romantic relationship yeah I mean you've talked publicly about kind of your your love life and your relationships and books

and you know talks and everything um you said you were married divorced twice mhm what did you learn after the first marriage into the

second marriage nothing no that's not true I was a much better second wife than I was a first wife really um but you know I I haven't really learned

anything till recently really you know and I just repeating patterns 100 100% so I've spoken very openly about identifying as a sex and love addict and I go to a room for that I go to 12 step

program for that um it took me until I was 50 to find out that there was a room for that and I spent decades and I mean Untold thousands of dollars sitting in

therapeutic situations with you know it wasn't like I wasn't trying to be different you know what I mean like I was paying a lot of people to try to help me not be like the way I am and no

one ever said Che sex and love really and there's a room for that there's a 12 step room for that and here's a pH number look this you know go get yourself some help

because there's so much secrecy around it because I think especially for women there's a tremendous amount of Shame um but my acting out was nuts Lewis I mean

you mentioned that I was divorced twice but I actually recently had lunch with my um old coup's therapist who's a wonderful brilliant couples therapist

who I and I said to him Mark have you did you ever have anyone else who was a patient of yours who brought three different people to see you over the years and he was like nope and I was like and none of them were my husband

like none of them were the people I was married to that was like between my marriages that I was bringing you know and he was like yeah I don't think I have ever had anybody bring in three different relationships and say please

make this work for me um and he said I have to hand it to you though Liz um they were all so different the people you were the same yeah he's like I I really admired the fact that like

and I was like yeah because I was trying to find what is the formula who do I have to connect with that this is going to work that this great echoing

god-sized hole within me this deep unsolvable problem of never feeling like there's enough love is it you is it you is it you do I need someone older do I need someone younger do I need a man do

I need a woman do I need someone who loves me more than I love them do I need someone who I love more than I do I need two people do I need an open marriage do I need like I want to and I say this

with all love I'm so proud of myself that I spent 35 uninterrupted years trying to solve that like trying to solve that and being like why can't I

make this work very similar to an alcoholic who's like well maybe if I just don't drink hard liquor maybe if I just have wine maybe if I just have beer maybe if I just drink on the weekends

maybe if I you know it's like I'm trying to figure out how to have this thing not do what it always does which is blow up in my face and leave me like flat on the

bathroom floor wreck depressed and sad and lonely suicidal if not homicidal right um and so it wasn't until I so you're looking for people to be the

solution but it wasn't what was the solution the solution is befriending myself and finding a

source finding what I have always needed which is a source of infinite inexhaustible love and that cannot come from another person because sometimes

people have to get up and get a sandwich and go to work and like go to the DMV and like do other things besides Ling to me you know what I mean like they have

other things they need to be doing they can't even if they love me they can't like a person can't do that or they might die which happened you know which happened or they or like they might

change or they might have another crisis in their life that they have to attend to right and then I'm howling on the outside like a seven-year-old like who's got me who's got me where did Mommy go

where did Daddy go am I safe why am I on this Tundra of loneliness again right so for me it's about finding finding a source that can keep

up with my need and pour infinitely into me that seems impossible in another person it is impossible in another person and listen I'll save you all the trouble I did the

research like I went out there and found a lot of people to try to get that from you know um didn't work and it didn't it works for a while like all drugs six months or something yeah yeah it works

till it doesn't like every other substance Every Other Drug it works till it doesn't and then you wake up on Tuesday morning and you're still you you know and you're still you and you're still lonely and you're still

overwhelmed and you're still confused and you're still hungry you know because this thing can't be filled so and I also needed to find a community of people who

understood me and the first time well actually second time cuz I I went to a sex and love addicts room once cuz a friend 13th stepped me there like sent

me there 12 St me there um and and was like I think you need this and I went in and I was like yeah these people are really sick and it's depressing and I feel bad for them and I'm going to be a spectator and then I'm going to leave

and then I went out and found another person to blow my life up with and then I was like maybe I maybe I should go back from the group or um but just from

the general population and then um and then I went back humbled and the first time I really showed up in that room and said hi my name is Lizzie I'm a sex and

love addict was the beginning of the end of a 50-year attempt to find somebody anybody who would take that pain away oh my gosh and to have a whole bunch of

people in the room who don't look like me who aren't my age who aren't from my background be like yeah we super get it you know and to hear he my story being told again and again and again through

other people's mouths I remember hearing this woman say I took one look at that guy from across the bar and I was like I would follow that man to hell and then I did you know and I was like okay I know that story like I've been in that story

I've been in that story I've been on all the sides of these stories and so to find a community of people who are like we understand why you're like this you know and we'll be your family as you

move through this what are the main symptoms of a sex addict for love addict then there's different programs for sex addiction there's different programs for love addiction I identifies as as sex

and love addict a lot of women don't want to use the word sex addict because it's sounds gnarly and shameful and it is gnarly super gnarly um because you're

sort of pimping yourself out to get to trade whatever you have to trade physically to try to get that love connection right it's like it's not

pretty but it's what I've done um it also means constantly objectifying yourself objectifying other people but if you just Google 12 characteristics of Sex and Love

addicts you know when I heard those I was like oh that's a 12 for 12 that's a hard identification with each and every one of these like I've done every single one of these things on the regular um

but it's it essentially comes down to this idea that somebody else is going to be able to fix this on the inside of me

and returning to unhealthy relationships again and again abandoning your care by attaching to people who are unavailable

um there's a whole there's a whole list sure how do you then let's say you go through you you accept that you're a love addict right and maybe someone watching or listening is like maybe I

have some of these Tendencies right and I've heard you talk about in the beginning of this conversation about how you know there's this love that you're connecting with every single day and asking it what would you want of me

what's what would you have me know today yeah and you have this new relationship with love but a lot of people feel

undeserving of receiving love yeah so if you don't feel like you're deserving of having love or being loved or receiving it how do you have a new relationship

with it where you can let it into your life for me it's been about in the same way that those inner children and inner teenagers that we spoke about needed to

gradually learn to trust me M and needed to gradually learn to see that I do have them and I am prioritizing them and I'm not going to abandon them and I am here

and I am going to say no and I am going to risk not pleasing people in order to make sure that they're okay it's almost like I've had to develop I'll just speak for myself because I think it's probably

different for other people but and I now am going to introduce the word god um I've had to have that same

relationship build very slowly with the god of my own understanding of believing that I am being loved and not

judged believing that I'm not in trouble um I've spent my entire life terrified of being in trouble like what did I do wrong I'm in trouble I'm dead

now um believing that I haven't done anything that has caused God to not love me and believing that I can turn to that

source and be fed and be held and be guided um and I always say this like I always loved God like and I didn't even

grow up in a religious family maybe that's why um because I had my own independent feeling of a god presence when I was a kid that was very organic

and natural like I loved the word God I loved the whole idea I loved everything about it I didn't really know what it meant but I loved it um I've always

believed in God I've always loved God I have never trusted God really because that's a whole another layer it's like wait I have to trust you because I mean like many of us because of things that

happen to us when we were kids we don't trust anybody or you just see bad things in the world and you say how could this be if God is all love how do these bad things happen right you'll question that right exactly why do bad things happen to good people why did all these

terrible things happen to me why is there Justice I mean we can get trapped forever in that but um I have found when I communicate with God I've said this

many times and I find it to be true why is not a spiritual question and it does not bring a spiritual answer ever like I can shout why into the cosmos and I'm

never going to get an answer no one is but I can ask other questions like what do you want me to do and I will get an answer who do you want me to become I will get an answer who do you want me to

be around like who are the people who you want me to be around what do you want me to do next how do you want me to comport myself through this I'll get answers to that if I ask God but I won't

get answers to why I mean I think that's just the general humility of knowing that my mind can't know we're not allowed to know why sometimes you kind of get a glimpse later where you're like

oh I see why I see why that might have I see why we couldn't have gotten here without that but I even try to stay away from that I I try to stay out of the why

I have surrendered the why you that's funny I asked my I still ask my mom why questions and she saids she stopped answering why questions yeah I'm like why'd you do this Mom and she goes I stop answering your white questions I'm

not accepting your question anymore ask me a different question yeah come back with a better question sometimes God will say that to me come back with a better question interesting what is the

best thing you've heard from God over the last four years there a couple things one thing is um I love this I hear this from God a

lot when I'm sort of unsure about what I'm supposed to do because that's a thing that I can get really panicky about like what am I supposed to do what am I supposed to do I will often hear

God say when I've got something for you to do you'll be notified um don't try to rush it or try to know right now like for instance I had a couple years there where I didn't

have any ideas for a book or creativity or anything to write and every in my journal I would say am I supposed to be writing something right now am I supposed to be working on something and that Universal Cosmic voice would say

when we've got something for you to do you'll be notified and then I would say well what am I supposed to do in the meantime and the answer would come hang out just be hang out and I'm like well that's extremely uncomfortable I would

rather that you gave me an assignment I'm a border colag I do better with an assignment yeah like I me and um but but we'll let you know that's one of my favorites the other thing I've heard is

actually very similar when I've said to God am I supposed to be dating anybody am I supposed to be now that I've gotten well now that I've gotten emotional sobriety now that I've been in 12-step

recovery for sex and love addiction now that I've learned how to take care of myself and been celibate for five years which is the greatest gift I've ever given myself wow um and the first time

since like way too young in age that somebody hasn't been like on me you know like it's been so important for me to like

reclaim this body and just be like mine wow right my body this isn't like a tool for anyone else this isn't a tool for manipulation this is like ours like to

find that and to and to learn how to self-comfort to learn how to regulate my own nervous system like so now that I've done all that I'm like am I supposed to

be looking for somebody to be with and my favorite thing that God has ever said to me is the response to that which is LOL

no wow Hard no absolutely not like absolutely not and and I love that answer and I trust that answer and and then God says if I want if I want you

with somebody I will let you know the idea won't be yours it'll be mine I will let you know I will let you know who it is you don't have to go hunting you don't have to go searching I don't want

you chasing anything again I mean to me so much of what all sobriety is is the end of chasing like you're not chasing a feeling anymore you're not chasing a

high you're not chasing an escape you're not chasing a person you're not trying to replicate a way you felt once like that's a big thing for sex and love addicts like stop chasing a feeling

feeling right it's a feeling you want to have and all that feeling if I can get it I can get it met but it just leads to craving because then I want more of it yeah and sadness and and then I'm like

okay now what do I have to do get that right so so God has been really clear with me like I don't want you chasing anybody I don't want you chasing anything you're so good right now what's

the big hurry to like why you out there looking for ways to make your life unmanageable again wow like I can sleep through the night without medication I don't need to be on anti-depressants

anymore I'm not on anti-anxiety pills anymore my body is healthier my work I've like written three books in the last six years my friendships have bloomed all of my family relationships

have changed due to these new radical boundaries like I'm prospering and God's like what's the hurry to to tip the Apple card over again that's fascinating

I you know when I decided because it was a choice to get into relationship with Martha my fiance and when we got into a relationship I told her kind of like a lot of these things that we're talking

about where I was just like listen I've never made good decisions in previous relationships and then I didn't have the courage to get out of them cuz I was afraid and I didn't want to hurt someone so I stayed in things that

weren't good for me and you know it was just never good and it doesn't mean they were bad people we just weren't the right people together and so I told her like I want to take our time if we're going to do

this we're not going to sleep together you know which is not something I'd done in the past it was like kind of quick to rush to that and that was one of the best things I did for like the kids in

me yeah was not sleeping with someone that I was dating but trying my best to get to know all the parts of her her family life her when she's H happy her when she's going through a challenge you

know traveling together all these different things as opposed to rushing into chemical bonding right because once the internal Pharmacy gets activated

it's like it's like in midsummer night dream when they when they put like you know magic powder on the person who then falls in love with a donkey it's like those hormones will make me fall in love

with like a kitchen cabinet anything you know and and as somebody with a really disregulated nervous system you know with a with a process

addiction like I mean I experien those hormones it's estimated that people like us who have that experience those hormones at like 10 times the rate of other people so like someone else might feel Pleasant experiences with romance

and love and connection and sex I get wasted you know I get wasted and I shouldn't be operating heavy machinery I shouldn't be making decisions about my bank account I shouldn't be move like

I'm I go insane right so it's really important like what you've done is a really gracious thing for both of you actually course um to slow that entire process down and try not to go chemical

before you find intimacy exactly and I remember like you know and listen we're only three and a half years into this so it's like we' got a long time ahead with our

relationship with hopefully it's all good and it's all like smooth but there's going to be challenges that we have to face but I wanted to set myself up for the most Harmon possible knowing that life is going to throw challenges

at us individually and together how can we create a relationship of Harmony and peace where we both have nervous systems that are calm right nervous systems that are okay independent of each other and

stronger together hopefully but I'm not ryant on her for my happiness which I think I never had before yeah I was always ryant on the other people to like me or accept me and people pleasing them

and it feels so freeing to experience for the first time after 20 years of painful relationships um Peace and Freedom in a relationship like I didn't even I didn't

think it was possible I didn't know it was possible and it it feels amazing to at least up in this point have experienced this for a number of years so I'm very grateful for that I'm so

happy for you than thank you but I remember thinking to myself I don't need to be in a relationship like I'm I'm not going to jump in a relationship until I feel that consistently from a dating

phase without sexual intimacy Y and that was hard I mean I'm like you know I'm a young guy it's like it's hard to say no to those things but by creating that boundary for me it's like I built

respect for myself and about trust within my nervous system and the parts of me and it has allowed me to trust myself in the relationship more than ever before a it's wonderful and I feel like it sounds like that's what you've

been doing the last five years is reclaiming trust y within yourself that you're not going to abandon yourself and when when you do get into another relationship you're not going going to

abandon or people please who you are and it doesn't mean you're going to be avoidant either like you're going to be securely you know connected to the person because you're securely connected to you is what it sounds like you're

building that's that's the thing and and also for me as somebody who's now become god- centered instead of self-centered you know and my wants my

wants have driven me over Cliffs many times my wants my needs my desires my ideas feelings my big Ideas like I get some big ideas then it's like cut to 6 months later it's like oh my God what

did you just do to your life you just drove into another brick wall um so for me I think you you mentioned the word manifesting very early in this conversation and I'm a good manifestor

you're a good manifestor too like we you know we're like we're disciplined we're resolved you know we we vision board our way into like you know we're like I'm going to get this I'm going to make this I'm G to get this many you know like I'm

less in the in the in the realm of romantic and intimate connection I've manifested like I've gotten what I wanted I've gotten who I wanted at times

and it's almost killed me it didn't work right so it's not I'm not that interested anymore in the question of what do I want um but I'm really interested in the question of like

what's God's will for my life man I love this and and how can I live in alignment with that love this so I don't even worry about like will I ever be with

someone again it's not up to me I don't really care like I trust When God Says you'll be notified if that's supposed to happen like great I don't have to think about it wow when did you bring God in your

life really I mean really seriously when I came into 12-step recovery which was five years ago five and a half years ago is God in 12 step recovery or is it more

oh yeah I mean high power is um it's a spiritual program because addiction is a spiritual sickness and and it's a deep

spiritual emptiness and addicts like me are people who have such a profound emptiness that we will use anything or anybody to fill it and you don't have

God in your life as like this the faith yeah or the trust or the the knowingness of it then you find everything else to be your God I guess or to feel that void I've heard addiction referred to as

false worship it's like I'm going to worship this thing I'm going to worship this substance I'm going to worship this person I'm going to worship money I'm going to worship success I'm going to

worship food I'm going to worship cigarettes you know like it's it's it's there's this line in the I mean I'm there's a line in the Bible about false Idols about not worshiping false idols

and it says that people who worship false idols and they they describe them as like you know wooden like kind of wooden creatures with lifeless eyes it's like what sort of what an idol is like

you worship that and then you become that you become sort of wooden in lifeless and um I mean I'm not a fundamentalist Bible reader but I think that's a really accurate description of

what addicts become um you become sort of wooden and lifeless and and the god-sized hole is what it's referred to

is can only be filled with god wow do you feel a lot more peace now with God in your life yeah I mean it's the it is my life

you know and and I had this great experience in step three which is um made a decision to turn our will and our life over to the god of our own understanding the beautiful generous

thing about that language is the god of your own understanding you know it doesn't necessarily mean the god that you were raised with or threatened with

um and and I had a sponsor who said to me write down what you're looking for in a god like nobody will ever surrender their life over to a God who was forced

upon them so write down the qualities that a deity would have to have for you to surrender your life completely happily over to them and I was like you

you get to do that and she's like of course you get to do that because why would a loving God not appear in whatever form you need right like of course and and it was such a fun

assignment because I was like the very first thing was like my God has to have a sense of humor my God has to have a sense of humor and think that I'm adorable and funny and that my failures are adorable

and funny like I can't have a judgmental God I can't have a punishing god um I have to have an incredibly patient God I have to have a God who doesn't have anywhere better to be than sitting with

me in the middle of the night present and comforting like I need a God who doesn't have office hours um I need a God who doesn't stand on ceremony and need me to prostate in a certain

particular way I don't want I can't have an insecure God like I can't have a god who's like if you don't like pray to me in this certain way I'm not going to feel right

you know like I I need to have like an abundant God a generous god um a loving God who knows me and who likes me there's um I wish I

could remember who said this but somebody said that the true feeling of being one with God is relaxing completely in the presence of somebody

who you know is deeply fond of you and if people had been taught that that's nice childhood that that's what God presence feels like relaxing completely in the presence of somebody who you know is very fond of you yeah not being

afraid constantly oh my God instead of what James Joyce called the hangman God you know um the judge the Executioner you know this like like of

course I created you I love you you know like I made you the way you are this is fascinating how many how many relationships do you feel like you've been in in the past like intimate

relationships whether it be like dating or sexual or oh like 40 40 okay you know 45 maybe 45 I was trying to remember cuz I had to inventory it when I was it's

part of like the sex and love addict recovery good mhm so 40 45 kind intimate loving relationships sexual relation deeply in 45 deeply Intimate Relationships

Le how many how many of these relationship love myself that's good yeah not no judgment here no I don't feel it how um how many of

the relationships you've been in had God at the core of the center [Music] none how many in the future do you feel like God

will be in the relationship in some way if God's not in the relationship it's not a relationship wow you know um and and I heard a prayer recently um in one

of the 12 step rooms and this is about every relationship you know not just sexual intimate but somebody said dear God

please only bring me relationships where you can be first and I can be me oh man that's good say that one more time so dear God

please only bring me relationships where you can be first and I can be me man that gives me the chills imagine every relationship in your life like that friends family you know Intimate

Relationships y that's that's a beautiful life isn't it with every relationship like that CU then you're not feeling judged or you don't have to people please you don't have to impress you know obviously you got to create

boundaries and you have to communicate and you have to you know stand up for yourself but you don't have to worry about what happens when God is at the center yeah God is going to have your back no matter what and their back yeah

right I mean to know that they also have their own higher power of course right I mean I got super high off of becoming other people's higher power as much as I got super high off Mak somebody my

higher power right it's like oh let me be the thing you worship right like that's a that's a rush big rush right until you crash until you get dep pedestalize and then you don't even want

to be in the room when that happens I mean like that's that's such a terrible crash for everybody the terrible disappointment of that like I like I say

this to my spones a lot like if they idealize me at all you know I'm like okay I just want to point out that like that language sounds a little bit

idealizing please don't do that to me or you because when you inevitably discover that I am not this ideal I don't even want to be in the room when that statue

comes crashing down right like that's going to be really bad for both of us W so like just don't don't do that like let's don't do that wow this is fascinating so I mean can you share what

it was like being in a relationship with someone that then you're you're so deeply in love with or you or whatever you feel like is love at that time I don't know if you look back and if you

feel like that's real love or was love addiction we can get into that later but you're deep in a relationship you've poured your heart into someone your life into someone that then passes away can

you share what that experience was like because I can't even imagine but how did you navigate that and what was the lesson that opened up for you once you

got to reflect on it so yeah you you knew rehea and so rehea was my best friend for many many years while I was married to somebody else and while I was married to somebody else I fell in love

with my best friend um and slowly over many many many years and I won't get into the reasons why actually I will I

mean the the the the primary reason was over time she became the only person in the world who when I was with her I felt completely safe and I had never felt

safe in the world and she was so good and strong at handling people and dealing like I have this deep fear of people's insanity and rehea could just

handle it she kind of protected you yeah I kind of walked into every room behind her because I was like whatever goes down like she's got it like she's got it she's not afraid of anybody she'll say the thing that needs to be said she'll

set the boundary that needs to be set so so I was like a little kid kind of behind her and and that feeling that she could provide for me of security was was was so beautiful then she was diagnosed

with terminal pancreatic and liver cancer and given six months to live and at that point it was no longer possible for me to continue to pretend that I wasn't in

love with her um and I came to my then husband and said I'm in love with Ray and he was like you've always been in love with Ray I mean he knew me so well he was like you've been in love with Ray

for so long honey and how long were you guys married for 12 years 12 years yeah he was like you you need to go be with her like it was wow so he kind of gave you that that blessing yeah he wasn't

upset he wasn't mad he wasn't she was very upset you know but like and her you know but like at her but not at you no and hurt you know but also he's he was a

wise soul and um and you know he he wasn't in an argument against reality and and it was true I had to go and be with her was it were you not upset that he wasn't like fighting for you guys or

saying like this is not okay no I was deep moved by his compassion um and his courage it's also hard to if someone's like essentially

saying I don't love you this way anymore I love this other person it's hard for someone to be like please love me you know he probably had some self-respect to say he had way too much self-respect

that's painful and hurtful yeah he had way too much dignity to get a not to beg you to love me back that's not going to work no so he was like he he let it go

yeah yeah and I'm so grateful for that and um I have great respect for him and and then I went to go be with her and we had six months to be together and

she really only had six months she ended up having a year and a half okay yeah but they had told her she would have six months and and we both knew that our time together was going to be very short

wow there was something incredibly intoxicating about that every day is a rush I mean if you live at the ex extreme levels of emotion that I've always lived

I mean this is high it's like okay there are no consequences there are no tomorrows let's do whatever we want let's spend all our money let's I always say rehea was the one who had been given

six months to live but I acted like I also had been given six months to live I was like I don't give about anything that happens in the future like ride or die let's just like Blaze out right to the end there's no reason to hold back

on anything I mean it was incredibly exciting in a way and sort of thrilling we're like let's make art let's go on all these bucket like bucket list trips let's eat everything

we want to eat let's blow off everybody we don't about like let's you know like there was something that was really wild about it and that wildness

was pretty out of control um and very exciting and and wasn't I word this because I I mean it was perfect how it turned out

because it had to go that that way but rehea was a recovered heroin and cocaine addict who had been in recovery

for 12 years and then had decided much to her own danger and detriment that she wasn't an addict anymore and left the rooms of recovery she was like I'm cured

yeah um and we know that addiction can't be journey and um and that addiction never ends it only Waits um waits till you're in Waits it

just waits for its moment it just Waits and so she just got kind of full of herself and was like I you know I've beat this thing I'm going to start drinking again I'm going to do other

kinds of drugs and like she and then once she got really deep in the pain of the cancer and the fear of the cancer she went fully back to being an opioid

and cocaine addict oh man that's tough and as as one of her relatives said I wish rehea was a nicer drug addict oh man she was not a particularly nice drug

addict wow and um she me you too vicious um and then just the darkness arose and so our sort of like let's just ride or die into the sunset thing story was

turned into sit and Nancy and I mean it was just ugly it just got very ugly and and very destructive and and I was lost in my codependency and my love addiction

and my people pleasing and like here I'll go take tens of thousands of dollars out of my bank account so you can buy all the cocaine you need cuz I love you um like just so degraded like it it like whatever love we had became

very degraded but but what I want to make clear and what I learned from that we did that together yeah you know and

and that's what codependency does it's like this isn't a story about how like somebody did a bad thing to me this is a story about how two people who were

unhealed addicts came together and lost their minds wow um and God let her live long enough for that to happen because if she had died right away

during the hot blazing beautiful exotic erotic like let's like burn out together in a like a comet shooting through Earth I'd be like that was the greatest love story ever told and God was like I'm

gonna let her live another year and I'm gonna let you guys go on this other Journey that you were not expecting yeah um and it so it was brutal so so to answer your question what is it like to have the person you love the most in the

world die she I lost her before she died I lost her to drug addiction which

actually made cancer look like a day at the beach you know like and I lost I lost myself in that before she

died so I lost both of us I lost me and I lost her um and so the it's like the death was almost afterthought to the

great loss of both of us to our own unhealed trauma what's the biggest lesson you learned from that afterwards like a year or two later when you were able to

reflect and have space took a little more than a year yeah I guess 5 I was like let me find someone else to do this with you know like because I was not it was you know like let me who can I fill

who can I replace her with I guess now if you're looking back if you could have a you know what's the biggest lesson now and also two two questions sorry

what if you could give wisdom to yourself before choosing to get in a relationship and just give yourself some wisdom to that younger you what would you have

said nothing she would have been able to hear I understand but if you um you know so it's more how I would speak to myself now

um so the way I felt at the end of that relationship was so far away from myself

and I had abandoned myself so completely into that story um and what that ends up doing only always is making you feel

like you've been abandoned so for a long time the pain I had was an anger and a pain of like she abandoned me like she chose cocaine and opioids over me we had

this very short period of time together and she chose to go back to her drug rather than being present to me she took herself away from me and she left me in the

cold I don't see it that way now um that's good I see somebody who was in excruciating existential and physical

pain and who turned to the thing that had always taken their pain away yeah and the only thing that had ever taken her pain away at that level was opioids

and cocaine and it's like that's what she needed to do I mean I remember rehea telling me back when she was sober and I always think about this with addicts she said I needed every gram of heroin I

ever took or I would not have survived the world I was in so much pain like people who drink need every drop of alcohol they ever em bibed or they were not going to make it I needed every one

of those 45 deeply intimate Partners yeah Partners or relationships or I wasn't I would not have made it like I was in so

much pain I would not have made it right so I don't see somebody who abandoned me I see somebody who is trying not to be in pain and I also was trying not to be in pain of course um and I love

something I always refer to Byron Katie I know you love her too great but I love something she says adults cannot be abandoned only children can be abandoned

adults can only abandon themselves so anytime as an adult that I feel abandoned I have abandoned myself and

and so the lesson coming out of that well first of all the lesson is I'm a love addict and I need a program and I need a fellowship and I need a higher power and I need a sponsor and I need a

Sisterhood in my recovery program and I need a daily spiritual practice and I and I need that to be they always say in in other rooms of sobriety anything you

put before your sobriety you'll lose so I need staying emotionally sober to be the single most important thing in my life like that's my job everything else

being a writer is part-time job like staying emotionally sober within a community and a fellowship of people who help keep me emotionally sober is my fulltime job wow and that's going to be my full-time job for the rest of my life

that's my public service and it's my service to myself that's interesting I interviewed um a brain surgeon who' done a thousand brain surgeries and he also has a PHD in Neuroscience uhuh so he

studies the mind and the matter in the brain and I was like what's the number one skill that every human being should learn to master that'll help them forever he said otal regulation and it

sounds like you know learning how to regulate emotions and and connect it to a higher power and making that the Forefront of your life will help you in

almost every situation as opposed to reaching for substances or numbing addictions to help you feel a void that you might have inside of you yeah do you

feel like did rehea have God in her life when she met you yeah when I met her she was like deep in her recovery but she and I and every other addict in

the world have very powerful Egos and Rea had a particularly strong sense of her own amazingness yeah yeah and it was extremely convincing because she

actually was really amazing and she was really powerful and she was really charismatic and dynamic and you know the first person we fool as addicts as ourselves um and so she had this front

of like mightiness and she kind of was the alpha predator in every room she walked into I mean I loved that about her and she loved that about her um but that's a kind of

fragile landscape upon which to build your home is your own awesomeness um you know yeah and God will humble you pretty quickly pretty

quick pretty quick and um and so she kind of replaced god with rehea w and I replaced god with rehea and um and I needed a God in human form and I made

rehea into my God and she must have needed an acolyte because she took me on as her like worshipper and for a while that worked right and we both got really

high off it and then it did what what all what all drugs do stopped working I'm sure you've had many well I don't want to assume but I I like to think you

probably had many writing sessions where you've reflected on her in your time with her um maybe you've had conversations with her or not spiritually

but what if you're willing to share would you say to her now if she's listening we're so good babe we're so

good you know like man we went for a ride together and and we're so good you know like that's the thing like

underneath all the dysfunction there was this real friendship and this real love and Martha Beck always says that true love always liberates the Beloved it's

the only thing that true love wants is for the Beloved to be free for everybody to be free like our souls unhindered by ego only want one thing for ourselves and each

other and that is Liberation yeah it's the only thing we want you know and and if I could be said to want anything for rehea seven years after she's dead because relationships don't end when

people die we've had a lot we had a lot of healing to do after she died like including some conversation where I was like you don't get to just float off into the ether and like become music we

have to out yeah like I'm still here like you know like we have some stuff to work out and like we've worked it out like we've worked it out in in various ways but if I could be said to want

anything for rehea it's that she be free you know that death actually be a Liberation that she be that she be free that she not have to stick around and take care of me you know and that you know something that I've heard her say

to me recently when I feel her is like I know you want me to say that I'm always here for you but you actually don't need me and that's great news you know like I

used to need you to need me but she used to say to me I'm not going to die till I see you standing on your own feet in every situation in your life and like she wanted like her higher self really

wanted that for me as much as her codependent self wanted me to worship her her her higher self wanted I just

want you to be free but the ego is loud very defening I want you to be free but I also want you to worship me love me and I want you to not replace me and I want you to never let you know and it's

all that kind offf right but like the true the true unfettered free Soul only only wants everybody to be free what what else could it want yeah you know

what do you feel like is the biggest lesson you need to learn over the next decade of your life how to not throw it all

away throw what away my life I'm always looking my ad my inner addict is always looking for an opportunity to throw myself away right um I want to throw away my money to somebody I want to

throw away my time I want to throw away my creativity I want to I want to put somebody else at the center of my life you know I've heard it said in in the codependent recovery rooms you know

codependency is like the other person first you second God last wow and

Recovery is God first me second the other person gets whatever's left over right it doesn't mean they're last it just

means like that whole Paradigm of like what we call romantic love when we're obsessed and infatuated with somebody and we want to hear them say you are the

center of my life you are my everything right is actually turns out to not actually be that healthy it's toxic um you know what's

interesting before I forget I'm glad you said that because when I entered uh my relationship with Martha my

fiance after a few months of us dating and not being exclusively committed to each other she asked me a question I've shared this before on my show but she asked me a question it's the old what

are your priorities in life question that every girl I feel like asks a boy it's some point like what are your priorities in life what do you really want you know and I remember thinking this might be our last day hanging out

because I'm going to tell her the truth and she's not going to like it because everyone I've talked to in the past didn't like it they either screamed or got sad or cried or emotional and then I kind of like gave in because I wanted to

people please you're like oh never mind you're you're yeah yeah and I said are you sure you want me to tell you the truth right cuz in the beginning of the relationship when we first started

hanging out I made a promise to myself that I'm going to tell the truth about everything like past vision for the future like every all the parts of me want to tell you the truth things I'm

working on things I'm not proud of things I'm ashamed of all of it right and if you ask me the question I'm going to tell you the answer and I'm not going to Sugar cat or anything and you can either take it or leave it you may not like it but you get to either accept it

or not and so she said what are your priorities in life and I said I don't know if we're going to be you know hanging out together after this but you sure you really want the truth she said yes I go

okay cuz no one's been able to accept it but I'm going to tell you and I said you'll never be my number one priority and it's just saying it even now it's like I have a reaction to it CU I'm like

am I got to mess hurt someone when I say this but um I said you're my number one priority I can't even look at a woman in the face and say I feel like but

screamed at how dare you not put me first strikes and like the gods of romantic comedies come and like you but I was like you'll never be number one priority for me and it no woman wants to

hear that from a man they're dating they just don't want to hear that most women I should say right they don't want to hear that and she's like okay I go but

let me finish and I go you'll not be my number two priority it gets worse and I go no woman to be number one or number two I said um I said my number one

priority in life is my health My overall health because if I'm not emotionally spiritually physically healthy I'm not going to be good for my number two priority which is my mission from God is what I feel called to do on this Earth

for this season of life or every season of Life whatever that is in this season I feel called to impact a lot of people with my with my message with my content

with what I'm creating in the world and if I'm not able to fully pursue my mission that I feel called by God to do that's inside of me speaking to me I'm going to be very unhappy I'm going to be

resentful I'm be frustrated and I'm not going to be a great partner I'm just not I'm going to be a shell of myself limited and really pissed off at myself at you at you know God whatever it is

the situation and so number two needs to be my my mission and my ability to serve that means you've got to be respecting in my time when I need to go to the gym and take care of my health or if I need

to go to therapy like whatever it is and my work you got to be respecting of that time the third priority would be my relationship with you you know if we're together it'll be my relationship my

marriage and my family you relation ships and I tell you what though if you fully accept that where my health is my priority and I want this for you too but

my health is my priority number one spiritual physical emotional my mission by God is number two you're going to feel like then I'm more in priority because I'm going to

give you all of me like when I'm with you I'm present you I'm going to be thinking about you I'm going to be speaking about you I'm going to be building for us and it's not like I'm going to neglect to you and never be around like you're going to feel my

presence my energy my love CU I'm going to miss so much gratitude for you so much appreciation every night I'm going to speak gratitude into your soul and every night I tell her what I'm grateful

for and it's her and and other things as well but she feels those things and if you ask her today do you feel like you're third priority she's going to say

no I feel like he puts me at the center and I think um it took me a while to be able to say that confidently and not be worried about like losing someone but

really owning that truth and it's not easy to say like you would never say this in a romcom and the funny thing is she's you know done 40 romantic comedies she's a big actress in Mexico and you know very famous in Mexico she was the

queen of romantic comedies so she had to unlearn this herself in her own life right but it's what's allowed for peace and Harmony in the relationship and you

again I say this as a caveat we're not married we don't have kids yet so everyone's always like well wait till you have kids and you're married but I'm like why do people want to instantly knock you off why people want to say that it's going to get worse like when

you have but I'm like I'm building a foundation you're building something that introduce the children it'll be a beautiful home for them hopefully yeah that's the goal and we we started the relationship in therapy because I said I don't want to enter a committed

relationship unless keep a therapist on on you know 100% and we you know not because there was something wrong because I wanted to create agreements from the beginning and I want to make sure we're aligned with our values other

because every relationship I had before ended in therapy right when there was too much already too it was already too late gone and it was too much I want to start it and then end it quickly if we're not meant for each other right and

try to create alignment and agreements it's wonderful and so again it doesn't mean it's like this perfect thing but I feel harmonious consistent it's a very good start and it's a very good foundation great Foundation yes so I'm very grateful for that and you found and

it you said it took years to be able to say that but it also took you years to find the person who could hear it who could receive it yeah and not take offense to it yeah and this is a very I think that would make me feel incredibly

secure if somebody said that why so said Liz you're not going to be my number one priority and you're not going to be number two well if they just said that right right they cont and if they were like my car is my number one PRI no but

if they said listen I want to be the best version of me my health I want it to be as the center or if they said God first it's the introduction of a higher power that would make me feel very

secure you know I think like one of the questions that heard people say is a really good question ask somebody when you're in relationship is like what do you turn to when you're

shattered um like what do you turn to and before it used to be what people or drugs or alcohol whatever it is like what do you do to come like what do you do when you're when you're broken where do you go um it's a really important

question because you're going to get shattered great question you're going to get shattered like life is going to life is in session Earth School is happening like the curriculum is hard and they going to be things that happen so like I

want to know is it me you're going to turn to CU then I'm probably going to get shattered with you right are you going to turn like what do you what do you turn to do

you isolate do you go to rage do you you know do you go to God do you go inward do you try to work harder and achieve more and gather more stuff like what is the what is it yeah that's really

interesting and I haven't asked Martha that but I think innately because I've seen her the thing that makes me feel really safe with her in this relationship is something that she does

really smart uh I think at least for my personality type she doesn't bring every challenge or problem to me right away she's got her mom her sister her girlfriends her therapist she's got a

community of like women or her father um she's got a community of people that she'll also speak with and not put everything on me right away sometimes she'll come to me right away but a lot of times if she's feeling something

she'll talk with a girlfriend first that that usually like okay I'm feel good or she'll talk to her sister or her mom or her therapist and then she'll bring it to me it's a good sign that she's a person who has a community it's really

nice because one of the things that that love addicts get high on is meeting somebody who's got no one and becoming their everything or having them get rid of all their friends I will yeah or isolating them away from all that like I

will become your world right it's a really wonderful thing I also have heard it said and this is a thing that I think is really good for women to hear um everything that I ever thought I had to

get from one man I now know that I can only get from a community of women you can't expect it with one person it's what Esther Perell says we expect our Rel romantic relationships to give us everything a community used to give us

yeah it's impossible yeah how can you put that on someone you know or expect that from yourself from that person it's like yeah it's exhausting yeah exhausting exhausting and it's

going to leave you hungry and angry like Angry hangry it's going make you hangry emotionally hangry wow yeah this has been really beautiful I'm

want to ask a few more questions and we'll wrap things up um what is love speaking to you right

now take a break I've been working really hard I mean I I know how to work hard and I've been working hard my whole life but

that's what I've been hearing is plan a really big break break like a big pause um I had a chest infection

recently that lasted for almost eight weeks and every year recently I've been getting like a bad chest infection and a friend of mine who's a great healer was

like did you get quiet and ask your lungs what they need you know and when I got quiet and asked my lungs what they need they said we need you like we need

you like you've been spreading yourself a little too thin yeah um and and so I've been learning how to ask for support and help in ways that

I've never done before like um okay this is such a dumb this is such a dumb ACA thing to be proud of but like I have been croly

proud for years that I don't have a personal assistant like croly proud you know like when people write to me and they're like can your team get to us I'm

like I am my team you know like I don't team I don't need a team I don't have a I don't have a PA Like I Do I Do speaking events and they're like we'll give you two business class tickets for you and your assistant I'm like I can

carry my own suitcase I can book my own hotel room I don't need somebody to get me coffee I don't need any help like I don't need any help like this is the flip side of the codependency and the

addiction to I need you to save me is I don't need anybody wow go like I don't need anybody ex total extremes like you know and that comes from a way of being

raised in a system where you better not need anybody like because they're just gonna tell you to take care of yourself right so it's like this huge Pride that like I

don't need anybody and just very recently I was like I'm 55 I think I've proven like I've proven that I don't need anybody now I think I need I need

some help um it would be nice and like I didn't even know how to use an assist like I don't even know how to ask for that but my friend sea jaad um who wrote between two kingdoms and and is so

extraordinary actually helped me find somebody and then she was like I was like I don't know how to have like I also like what do I how do like I don't know you know and she was like write

down every single thing you have to do this week and then ask her to do those things don't do it yourself and I was like like go to the go to the Post Office you can have somebody do that for

you so it's just been this new learning of like can you go pick this thing up for me it's crazy like I've never I've never done that and it's crazy for me to have been moving through the world at

the level that I've been moving through the world and not have it it's it's insane but like it's such a it's such a prideful like I can do everything myself

I can carry it all on my own shoulders it's ridiculous so I'm looking for more places where I can ask other people to help me that's good um rather than

proving that I'm an Olympian how can I help you a Louis come on Letters From Love I'm going to yes Happ yeah I'm excited yeah come on letters

from Love And the reason and it's actually not just helping me um so I do this project with my beloved friend Margaret Cy and we're not going to embarrass her by telling everybody that

she's in the room but she's in the room um and Margaret and I have been friends since college and we created this whole substack thing together and you know

every every week we ask a special guest to come on and take the risk because it's an incredibly vulnerable thing for people to do to dare to take this like

thought exercise spiritual exercise um trauma exercise of asking unconditional love what would you have me know yeah and it hasn't necessarily

been easy to find men who will do it oh amen and like that's why you're so great is because you actually like there's been a number of men who we've asked to do it and they're like I don't feel safe

or comfortable doing they said no or they just said I'm not ready for this or they said no um and and and one that I found really interesting was he

said something I don't want to out him he's somebody who I love so much but he was like I feel like I already know what unconditional love would say to me unconditional love would say to me like you're you're lovable just the way you are and I don't want to hear that

because I'm afraid it'll take away my motivation to be better and and and I was like who hurt you yeah

sweetie why do you think that you can't be unconditionally loved and also still strive to be better purs things in fact maybe

knowing that you are loved is the like the soft Landing place that you can live in and from there like you can you can it's a place you can go back to to rest

those letters that I write to myself from love are my home yes you know I go out there in the world and I strive and I try and I you know like I work so hard on myself and I work so hard on my work and I and I try to be

a really good person and I try to serve the world and like I I work so hard and then I come home to these letters where love says like my beloved just come come

home and rest yeah you know that's interesting that that person said that to you because I think a lot of a lot of people not just men but a lot of people can understand that feeling of like well

if I love and accept myself do I just give up I'm not driven anymore right and I'm not that's G to take my edge off of me or won't be as competitive or driven to succeed and then I'll get complacent

and and I can relate to that because for most of my life I was driven to prove people wrong or to prove people that I wasn't you know what they thought I was when I was younger or something to prove

the bullies wrong or whatever it might be right and I'm going to get bigger faster stronger you know more successful to prove you wrong that didn't nothing good for me like it helped me achieve

but it didn't make me feel better once I did maybe for a day but then I was almost angrier I was like why am I not feeling better right I need a bigger goal to go conquer it's like I don't

know if you can relate to that but 100% And I think learning to this has worked for me learning to be

on the healing journey and say okay I feel more peace than ever and because I have energy it's more sustainable it's more renewable doesn't burn out as

quickly when I'm driven by like anger and like pride and proving people wrong yeah I feel like I can serve at deeper levels and I feel like I can because I'm

doing it out of love and collaboration not competition and proving God right versus proving others wrong proving God right I love that you know what I mean as it's

like okay of course I have a mission to get up for today and like of course I'm going to go the extra mon of course I'm going to serve bigger and better however I can course of course I'm going to endure what I need to endure in the season and I'm

going to go home and rest and I'm going to listen to my chest when it's telling me you need to take two weeks off or you need to take two years off or two months

off whatever it is and you need to slow down and I think it's it's being able to listen at all times of what you need it's like it's now the time to push or

is now the time to like rest right and it sounds like you're in that season of listening and needing to rest or do something else yeah a little less what is that how can I support you in in

staying accountable for whatever that looks like for you oh God what does that look like for you to rest or to do less you know what I'm going to send you

because you're my friend I'm going to send you the dates that I have already set aside perfect in the year of Our Lord

2025 okay when I'm going to take a six-month sabatical and I'm not going to do any teaching I'm not going to do any speaking events I'll keep the letters from love going because that's actually

my spiritual space I'm not going to write I'm GNA start a new book um I'm going to stop perfect and I'm GNA send

you those dates you promise absolutely okay good I love that that's such a great question I love I love asking like how can I serve how can I serve this

aspiration yeah yeah um GNA take six months and I'm gonna I'm gonna not produce achieve Aspire that's great yeah that's greatness for me in this season

of your life uh I'm so happy that you're doing that cuz I I'm grateful you're doing this because I know when you feel kind of stretched thin and like committing to something like this last minute I appreciate you coming on here I

think it's going to serve and help a lot of people so hopefully this is energy giving and not stretching you you are a banquet of a human being thank you and I

always come away from being with you feeling fed and ner ised and seen and this did not take energy this gave energy I'm glad I'm glad we're here we're here to serve people together so

I'm grateful for you and and I'll I'll wrap it uh with this I want to acknowledge you Liz for the journey you've been on because I think people have seen the side of you for a long

time of like your success right of like eat bra love and all the you know millions of copies of books and like Master speaker and all the success of

you uh and I'm so grateful that you are starting to reveal the parts of you of what you've been struggling with at an even deeper level you did this before

but you're doing it at a deeper level where I feel like it's feeding your soul um and you're not worried about what people think about you not that you did before but I feel like this is what

you're doing now and how you're serving with the letters that you're doing is just really valuable and I'm grateful for you and I acknowledge you for the

gift that you've been giving yourself continually over these Last 5 Years to be of support and service to you so that you can serve the way you need to at this season of your life on what God

wants you to serve thanks l so I'm really grateful that you're doing this journey I'm grateful that you're allowing support in your life and and you're allowing a team around you as

opposed to doing it all yourself I think that's amazing and I'm grateful because you get to rest and you also get to inspire and Empower other people and provide opportunities for other people

to be with you so I think it's amazing and um how can we follow the the letters how can we be sign up for it be a part of it so if you go to substack or if you

just Google Elizabeth Gilbert substack or Elizabeth Gilbert Letters From Love it'll take you there um and for some people it's a new technology but it's just like it's just like essentially you're just signing up for a newsletter

um and and come and sign up and be part of this community I also just want to say that that Community um I have a friend named Dr Stephanie Covington who's an expert on women's addiction and Recovery she wrote a women's guide

through the 12 Steps she's a a very reputable expert in um in the psychological field and she said that Community is the kindest corner of the internet wow um and the support that the

people in that Community are giving to one another as they share this incredible vulnerable work of Daring to believe that something might love them and listening for that voice and

downloading those messages and then letting it be seen there's a tenderness I mean it's been 13 months we haven't had one person bring any negativity into

that space which is astonishing in in this age you know people are showing up with with truly undefended hearts and um and we're reversing a terrible cultural

Paradigm of self-hatred perfectionism and scarcity and turning it into self- friendliness and acceptance and Community love that's beautiful

is there a specific website to like that directs it to them or just go to substack and Google or search substack Doom Elizabeth Gilbert I don't even know whatever we maybe we can put a link on

the we put uh I don't I don't even know you don't know people just find it but you just Google Elizabeth Gilbert substack it'll take you right to it two final two

final questions for you this one I think I asked you this when's the last time you were on like seven years ago eight years ago when God isn't that crazy it's crazy to me is it that long I think it was yeah I'm pretty sure I asked you

this question last time but it may be different now um this is a hypothetical question I ask everyone at the end of a conversation it's called the three truths okay so imagine hypothetically

you get to live as long as you want but it's your last day on this Earth and you get to from this moment until then you get to accomplish or live however you want complish all your dreams everything

comes true that you want and for whatever reason on the last day you have to take everything with you all of your content books substack letters this conversation everything's

gone hypothetically but you know you get to leave behind three truths and this is all we have to remember you bu these three lessons that you've learned from every everything you've learned what

would be those three truths for you it's a friendly Universe transformation is possible and this is Earth

School yeah that's good okay final question what is your definition of greatness trust trusting

that going back to this is a friendly Universe um trusting that we are not

alone that our lives are not accidents that God doesn't make trash and that you're here because you're wanted to be

here um and you're wanted and loved and chosen no matter what your family of origin might have said no matter what your culture might have said no matter

what the people who left you might have said no matter what your failures and your addictions might have said you are wanted here you are wanted here we want

you here that's what I hear the universe say we want you here we love you here um and and we want you to know that that

there is no deep Cosmic silence there's just 10,000 angels saying we want you here we love you here it's important

that you exist um and we want you to stay yeah is you're amazing appreciate you love you thank you much I love you amazing thank you love is not soft love

is hard love is guard love is flawed love is loud love is proud love is doubt and since love is most important when we

do not know how I will choose to love you harder in the never ending now wow