Better than CIA Mind Readers! Ky Dickens Has Proof Telepathy & Psychic Abilities Are Real!

There is a place where consciousness

exists outside of our bodies that some

people have an apparent ability to

access. What if it's not that hard to

get there?

>> Science and institutions have handwaved

away the inconvenience of a non-physical

world. And this isn't about religion or

spirituality. It's just about the fact

that we're connected to something

bigger. And if you believe that, you're

not gullible or silly or illinformed.

You can be extraordinarily smart and

intelligent and see that there's a

non-physical world, and that might be

the more scientific thing to do than to

just ignore it altogether. The Telepathy

Tapes was the number one podcast in the

world, launching telepathy and sigh

phenomena into public conversation. The

Telepathy Tapes host Kai Dickens joins

us to uncover the controversy

surrounding season 1 and discuss how

season 2 will convince even the most

skeptical scientists that there's more

to reality and consciousness than we've

ever fathomemed. We started hearing from

a lot of nurses and doctors and

caregivers who are saying, "Hey, this

telepathy is not just with non-speakers.

It's with people with Alzheimer's or

strokes or in comas or dementia in

particular. There's something to do with

not being as tethered to your physical

form. We try to go find are there legit

mediums? Can we scientifically prove it?

Vet them, look at them from every

angle."

>> Tell us what you are hoping season two

of the telepathy tapes can achieve.

>> I hope season 2 will prove that

consciousness is fundamental. It is the

most basic part of our universe. It

became before all physical things.

Consciousness survives the physical body

and is engaging with us all the time

whether we have a body or not.

>> Have you opened up any of your own

telepathic or intuitive abilities?

[Music]

>> Hi, I'm Balik.

>> And I'm Jonathan Cohen

>> and welcome to our breakdown. This is an

exclusive look at season two of the

telepathy tapes and some of the biggest

topics that are going to be covered that

align to many of the conversations that

we have been having on this podcast for

the last year.

>> If you haven't heard of the telepathy

tapes, uh you can probably hear about it

in about a dozen episodes where we

reference uh conversations about what is

possible to access outside of what we

can see, touch, smell, and experience.

Um, the telepathy tapes uh was created

by Kai Dickens, who we have in person

here today to talk about some of the

biggest lessons from season 1 of the

telepathy tapes and what we can expect

in season 2, which is all about

consciousness. What are the different

ways that people can step outside of

their bodies, be it in death, from

accidents, from Alzheimer's disease? And

what can we learn about the places that

you can go if you do not believe that

your body is all that is you? There are

some phenomenal and really unbelievable

stories of people who have information

and receive information that they could

not possibly otherwise know. What's

really important about this conversation

that we have with Kai Dickens is that

she doesn't presume to be able to

explain everything that she has

witnessed, everything that she has

cataloged, or everything that we're

going to see in the documentary that

will be released next year or in season

two. But we have a fantastic time

talking with her about the limitations

of materialism and the ways to best

communicate with a larger audience.

things like remote viewing, uh, what

happens when the brain starts shutting

down and new abilities are acquired. We

cover everything that's coming in season

2, as well as some pretty out there

things that even she cannot yet explain.

>> We discuss two different types of

telepathy, which is fascinating, and

also she describes the scientific

experiments with rigorous scientists

that are trying to prove to people that

this is much more than a one-off

phenomenon. Also, can plants communicate

with us? Kai's going to tell us a very

personal experience that points towards

yes.

>> As well as explaining that sibility and

remote viewing specifically, children

can learn it very quickly. Take a second

and subscribe anywhere you're listening

or watching. We are so grateful to be

doing these episodes and having these

conversations. And subscribing is the

easiest way to help support the show. We

really cannot thank you enough.

>> We cannot wait to share with you someone

we've been wanting to have on since we

first got turned on to the telepathy

tapes. Um she's here in person with us.

Kai Dickens, welcome to the breakdown.

>> Break it down.

>> I have to say it's very very strange to

have you in person because I know your

voice very well. It's like it lives

inside my head. I had never listened to

a full podcast all the way through until

I listened to the telepathy tapes. So, I

became intimately acquainted with your

voice. And anyway, I am living my own

episode of being inside of the telepathy

tapes with your voice.

>> I love that.

>> It's a very exciting week as season 2

just dropped. Start us off by telling us

what you are hoping season two of the

telepathy tapes can achieve. After

listening to season one, I hope most

people left feeling um a little

uncertain about consciousness and the

materialistic paradigm in which we live.

And hopefully many people realize that

there might be more going on like

telepathy or just a deeper level of

consciousness or communication that

we're aware of in our physical bodies.

And so if you left season one feeling

pretty convinced that telepathy is

happening for some people if not all of

us on a very subtle uh in a subtle way I

hope season two will prove that

consciousness is fundamental. It is the

most basic part of our universe. It

became before all physical things and

that consciousness survives the physical

body and is engaging with us all the

time whether we have a body or not. So I

think that will be the takeaway from

season two. So those are some pretty

those are very big goals of

consciousness, right? So the first being

consciousness is fundamental. The second

that when the body dies, the vessel as

it were, there is a place where

consciousness exists and that in

different ways we're always able to tap

into that no matter what. Right.

>> Yes. Yes. And that consciousness is

interacting with us all the time which

>> needs a lot of unpacking because it goes

>> just brings up a lot of questions like

>> is the universe intelligent and has a

plan or not or

>> us. Yes.

>> How is it interacting with us?

>> Yes. And I think our episode 3 answers

that question.

>> Solved. Case closed.

>> I mean I hope so.

>> Conversation's over. You know because I

think what you have to look at is what

the universe what do we know about the

universe is always creating it's

creating and the destroying and creating

again like that is baseline right it's

all creation like from like the stars to

the earth to all of us to crystals like

everything has been created and so it

makes sense if consciousness likes to

create that it's going to create through

us and somehow us us humans can hear it

I mean I don't know if bats and like

weasels can can pick up a song or a

story, but we certainly can.

And what does that mean? And also the

fact that we will with our very precious

time on Earth create thousands of

different types of lamps or homes or,

you know, as Liz Gilbert says, tons of

chairs. Like why? You just need one

chair. And so, so that brings up a lot,

I think. And we know you know in in our

episode three we talked to um not just

creators but like um thinkers and

mathematicians and people who will say

like if I don't grab an idea it will go

on to someone else and sometimes an idea

will come but if you aren't you know

ready for it or giving it the time it

will leave you and if you come back to

it it might just be like a dead limp

part of itself. You can push it and prod

it and it won't come back. So what does

that mean? It seems like consciousness

has a will that it wants to make

manifest through us. So, I mean, we we

explore all of this in season 2.

>> I should say my secret reason for having

you here is I want to pitch a podcast

where I just talk about every episode of

the Celebrity Post with you and we get

to talk about it everyone in detail. And

we're not going to do that because we've

done that with at least a dozen other

episodes where we've had guests on and

we've poked and prodded and what does

this episode mean? You know, we're

fascinated with not just the telepathy

tapes but

>> we're fascinated with the fascination

about this aspect of our consciousness

and our conscious

>> ability to communicate to communicate in

other realms. When people would say to

me, "Oh, I listened to the first

episode. Oh, I don't know if I'm into

it." And I just kept saying, "Keep

going. Keep going. Whatever you think is

about to happen, keep going." And by the

time you get to the end, what is opened

up is what sounds like an opening to

season two, which is with all of these

incredible examples and all of the, you

know, ups and downs that you can go

through with each of these individual

journeys. The sort of thesis that comes

out of season 1 is there is a place,

right? There is a place, a metaphysical

place, a mythical place, right? We don't

we don't really know. We don't know. But

there is a place where consciousness

exists outside of our bodies that some

people have an an apparent ability to

access. And what if it's not that hard

to get there? Right. Right.

>> So that for me is sort of like where we

then head into season two. Tell us what

else season 2 is going to cover in the

field of consciousness. So, where we

left season one, I mean, it kind of

leaves with someone passing away and

other non-speaking individuals with

araxia, who we talk about in season one,

if you haven't listened to it, um, who

are able to communicate telepathically

from a long distance, are able to

telepathically communicate with this

young man who passed away.

>> And they also know where he is, what he

looks like,

>> and when he died. That

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, I was like, someone explain it.

All right,

>> that's the striking moment where these

children without being told. There's no

possible way that that information could

have gotten to them all seem to know

that a friend of theirs passes.

>> Yeah, that kind of brought up some

questions around consciousness surviving

death and who else can access access it

and what what is it like where are we

going because it doesn't seem to be that

out of reach for some of the

non-speakers that we profile in the

first season. So, our first episode

looks at near-death experiences um going

back not just recently, like 5,000 years

in ancient, you know, in ancient

civilizations from China to Samir to,

you know, Mesopotamia and how many of

our afterlife beliefs that popped up all

over the world and look very simil

similar weren't just ideas. They were

reports from people who'd been there and

come back. And so we kind of look at

that and if we can understand like what

people are thinking or saying where

we're going and this has been you know

throughout Native America like all over

the world same um concept of where we're

going then from there we can look at

okay well if we are going somewhere it

seems that way then can you communicate

from that divide and then we look into

mediumship and try to unpack it

scientifically but also compare if if

mediumship is real and someone's

connecting with spirits

Um, obviously the means of doing that

would be telepathy and we bring in a

non-speaker in episode two who can both

communicate from a distance with the

living as well as the dead. Can can you

explain explain what that's like? Just

for us to understand someone who

>> is distinguishing between this is a

person who's alive and I'm able to tap

into their brain, their consciousness,

their thoughts versus, oh, this is a

person who is not here anymore and I

have information that only you and they

would know.

>> Yeah. Well, it's really interesting and

she was such she's a joy to talk to and

she's young. She's 11, you know, so

she's But um, you know, the mediumship

really started happening, I think, for

her big time after season one came out

and her mom started saying she's being

visited all the time, but these are

messages from people we barely know or

like we'll be on an airplane and she'll

say, "You need to tell this person

that."

>> No, that freaks me out.

>> Yeah.

>> Any examples of things that she got on

airplanes that like people needed to

know? Like it's not like, "Hey, you

should tie your shoe."

>> No, it's very specific. In season one,

the boy who knew the guy was writing the

book.

>> Josiah.

>> Josiah. Yeah.

>> That one I was like, I can try and

explain and anecdote my way out of

everything. When I got to that episode,

>> I was I'm stumped. So, this sounds

similar.

>> There's information that is accurate and

specific that can be communicated.

>> We have this this example in that

episode, episode two, where she starts

typing. and he says, "I have a message

for Hunter Chastain, a very specific

name, and the mom is like, "I met this

guy once at like a conference, and it

was about," it was from his mother who

had passed, and you know, the the the

non-speaker, it's the mom's name is

Mora. She didn't know that this mom

passed. And then Amelia starts typing

like something about horses and the

derby and all this stuff. And she's

like, "What the heck?" So she calls this

man, Hunter Chestain.

>> No. And Hunter's like, "Yeah, um, my mom

passed and her thing was a derby and I

just recently saw her. Did you feed my

daughter to ride a horse?"

>> No, it makes me feel scared.

It makes me feel scared.

>> What makes you feel scared about it?

>> I just when when things like that are

articulated, I don't have a materialist

framework,

>> right,

>> to wrap my head around it, right? So

what it leaves open is like every

possibility of things that we're told

cannot be real. Yeah.

>> Right. Yeah.

>> And it's like this huge what if and he's

just like that's what I predicted. Like

he's Mr. Energy. Like I knew it.

>> Like when when we started listening to

tapes, he's like Mhm. Oh yeah, totally.

>> What I think happens to you is that you

feel for a moment cuz you're you think

so much,

>> right? and and you just

>> right

>> brain is constantly humming. Yeah. And

for a moment when you're speaking and

you're sharing that example, what

happens

>> in my opinion is that she feels just how

thin the veil is

>> to the other side. Yeah.

>> And that

>> the division between living, dead,

what's said, what isn't said

>> is so paper thin that with the right

tool, with the right sensing, it's just

there. And then also it may be like if

that is true well it starts to break

down her worldview

>> but then also she's like are they

hearing all of my thoughts because

there's a lot of thoughts in there.

>> They're mostly about you.

>> That's the trickiest topic actually that

we tackle this season because mediumship

comes with all sorts of charge around

it.

>> A lot of baggage.

>> Lot of baggage. Right. And if like like

a sanctioned holy man can talk to the

dad like that's really okay. You know

then you're you know holy. But if it's

your woman doing it you're a witch. He

was like the derby was her thing. What

what else was in that message?

>> That's one of the things we look into. I

mean, mediumship covers a lot of

baggage. I mean, and there have been

like smoky fake sciences and, you know,

apparitions and it's like been the most

exploitive, crooked field, you know, if

you will. And in that episode, we try to

go find are there legit mediums? Can we

scientifically prove it? Vet them, look

at them from every angle. And then like

and then we do a deep dive on one of

those mediums and then she meets this

little girl Amelia because what happens

with Amelia is she's being overcome by

not just non-speakers who want help

because their parents haven't taught

them to spell and they're locked in in

like locked in their body but also

spirits. And so we ask her like is there

a difference like what's how does a

spirit sound versus a non-speaker? And

she says, "Now the speakers are really

loud and persistent and like they're,

you know, probably sound more like us.

They're living and that the spirits feel

much more subtle and quiet, but they're

like almost like universally happy."

It's interesting, right? Um

um but she just wanted to be left alone

and didn't know how to to handle that.

And then her mom was like once people

realized that she could hear, it's like

the influx of both non-speakers and

spirits were coming through. But from

the guys of mediumship being an

exploitive field, we kind of look at

that because what does this 11-year-old

have to gain?

>> Nothing.

>> That's the best part of it coming

through the vessel of an 11-year-old.

It's not monetized,

>> right?

>> And this is kind of where I was going

with what that what did the message

offer the person because it's like she

is being overwhelmed and she doesn't

know what to do with it, I would

imagine. And I've heard about this

before where people who have an

intuition or an ability to hear other

realms

>> Yeah. like maybe there's a lack of

people in the call center. So if one of

them is in the call center who shows

proficiency, they get overwhelmed. And

then I'm like, well, are the messages

she's able to share with people really

impactful? And if and if she's not

monetizing it, then that sort of gives a

little little bit more objectivity,

>> right? She's a very inconvenient thing

for people, right? Because you can't

just say, "Oh, she's trying to make

money off of this or do this or do

this." It's like she just wants to help

people. And I forgot how she said it,

but we have this line in the episode of

her being like, "When people hear this,

they know they can become happy that

their loved one isn't gone, like they're

they're right there." And that's hard to

wrap her head around. But I I think you

just alluded to this because there is

something about like once something

turns on, and this is something I

discovered in this. I didn't know about

this until we started like really going

into full hog all things different in

season two was that like it does seem if

you turn on some one of these gifts

others come once the telepathy tapes

came out we started hearing from a lot

of nurses and doctors and caregivers who

are saying hey this telepathy is not

just with non-speakers it's with people

who have Alzheimer's or strokes or in

hospitals or in comas or dementia in

particular and it was like a lot of

nurses and doctors saying this is true

for us too

>> nurses and doctors are reporting that

patients who are nonverbal or have

dementia are finding a way to

communicate with them without words.

>> Exactly. But these aren't non-speakers

with a praxy or autism. It there these

are non-speakers because of a stroke or

dementia. And so there was a man and we

did a talk tracks episode on this which

was like where we unpacked season one.

Um and he his wife had early onset

dementia. She started talking to him and

telling him how to help her go to the

bathroom quicker, go in the car. I mean

just the most fundamental thing. So it

doesn't take 35 minutes, it takes four

and it would work. So he's like I can

hear you. I can hear you. But once that

turned on for him, he said all a sudden

like kind of some oh that spirit stuff

turned on too. And he's like I don't

know how it happened but my wife

suddenly was like I'm going to do this

out of necessity because you need to

help me.

>> Opened a portal.

>> Open something else. Yeah.

>> Which you know from a from a like

neuroanatomy perspective, right? What

we're saying is if you are tapping into

something because of I mean I'm just

going to throw out an idea because of a

wavelength that you're able to drop

into, right? You're able to drop into

some theta state or you're accessing

something that in that frequency, right?

It's like you're tuning the knob of the

universe

>> to be what you now are open to hearing

that other people if they are not tuned

to that frequency, they just don't have

access to it.

>> Yeah.

>> Yes. And once you learn to tune where

you previously were not tuned, right?

Like your antenna were sort of this

broad scope where you hadn't actually

gone into a specific channel, then you

can tune to other channels more easily.

So the mechanism is actually adjusted

and becomes more sensitive. Let's just

unpack here for a minute the amount that

we just discussed because

>> what it's not a big deal to be like,

"Oh, consciousness exists and people in

comas can communicate. You just got to

tune it right."

>> There's a lot of our episodes where I

feel like we talk about things in other

episodes and then like we have a hard

time wrapping them back together. So,

for example, we talk about people who

have this very advanced dementia having

moments of lucidity near the end. Um,

actually Martha Joe,

>> it was with a a death doula and she said

sometimes people who are completely

nonverbal for

>> for like months, years even come back

and have this and so you're like the

neuroanatomy has been damaged and yet

for a moment they're totally coherent

and making their goodbyes before

passing.

And in your example, what we're

suggesting is that the person and all of

their knowing functioning capability

exists outside of the physical form. And

when the mechanisms and structure of the

physical form are no longer able to

provide that communication,

>> but it's twofold because Kai's taking it

one level deeper. It's not just that it

exists. It's that it has intention.

>> Yeah.

>> It wants to be heard, right? Yeah,

>> it wants to reach out and make

connection, right? That's what you can

see or hear.

>> But in that version, it is the general

consciousness or the individual's

consciousness or the reflection of the

larger consciousness that is the

individual.

>> Donald Hoffman who has a mathematical

model for this. What he said is there

are individual consciousnesses

>> that collectively can exist but also

have an individual will as it were.

Right? And he shows this mathematically

with phenomenal matrix.

>> It gets very complicated very quickly to

anyone who's not a mathematician.

>> It's very very nerd level math. But the

notion would be that there is a

collective consciousness, but that they

are

>> individuated as well. Correct.

>> So it's like droplets in an ocean,

right?

>> Kind of. Right. I mean

>> I mean yes

>> that each droplet has an intention and

agency but also that they're operating

as a collective.

>> Yeah. Gosh, what would be a better

metaphor for that? Thomas Campbell

describes it as there is your

consciousness, there is someone else's

consciousness and then there's the

larger consciousness system. All those

nodes are a part of the each of those

nodes are a part of the larger

>> like we're all hands extending from it

which right to like learn more and the

more opportunities and experiences we

have the more we can like grow and know

>> in I forget also I think maybe in in

Donald Hoffman's conversation where it

just occurred to me I'm like if we are

perceiving and participating in

consciousness and we're sort of go back

to the radio we're tuning that frequency

what we tune is then fed back into the

larger system of consciousness wanting

to know itself through us,

>> right?

>> How do you, you know, as the person

who's holding all of this? Yeah. What

what do we do with that? How do we fit

this into a larger picture? It's really

tricky because I think there's a lot

here. One is that I think our structures

of science and institutions have sort of

really kind of like taken a large leap

or like handwaved away like the

inconvenience of a non-physical world.

And it's really I think caused us to

feel a lot of loss and confusion. And

this isn't about religion or

spirituality or anything like that. It's

just about the fact that we're connected

to something bigger. And if you believe

that, you're not gullible or silly or

stupid or misguided or ill-informed or

all these things that you know, I mean,

I know I used to be like, I can't

believe in God because then, you know, I

mean, it's like that's not true, I don't

think. And you can be extraordinarily

smart and intelligent and clear-minded

and and see that there's a non-physical

world. And that might be the more

scientific thing to do than to just

ignore it alto together, you know? So, I

think that's like a big pivot we all

have to make. And I think if we can

start making that together,

we're going to have a lot more peace in

our life and maybe in our society, too.

I mean, I don't want to sound like

overly glossy, but like if you realize

that you're connected to more, it's hard

it's harder to just like not give it to

flying shits about other people.

>> I totally agree. And that connects to a

conversation we had recently about the

need for re-enchantment. Because as

societies lose their sense of meaning

and purpose and sense that they're

connected to something greater, then

we're subject to all deals of modern day

society, of addiction, of depression, of

loneliness, of feeling like it's me

versus you, and that there's and that's

a bottomless pit of despair and

distraction.

>> Yeah, I love that word re-enchantment.

Someone said like, "I'd rather the story

be that there is more." Right. The

materialists

are so staunch in their objection to

anything other than the physical form.

Yeah.

>> That they'll dismiss. And what Jeffrey

Karle says is that they'll just remove

everything they can't explain from the

table and tell you you're silly for even

thinking about it

>> or try to um harm the messenger like

this person can't be trusted and must

there's something wrong with them. Um

and I know like Rupert Sheldrickch has

been like just look at the data. Stop

talking about me. Look at the data. I'll

debate you any day. You know,

>> I wonder if you can talk to us a little

bit about near-death experiences. You

know, for us, this has been um a realm

that is so significant in terms of

opening up a legitimate conversation,

right? Meaning it's fantastic to hear

the amazing things that people

experience.

>> Yeah.

>> And what does it mean? You know, what

are the what are the messages that

people who cross over, right? bringing

back and I wonder if you can talk a

little bit about that as well as

>> people who claim to have access, right?

I mean, it's a kind of near-death

experience to speak to people who have

crossed over and bring that back as

well. What have you learned and what can

season 2

>> bring us in terms of insight about

near-death experiences?

>> Well, I love that that was your gateway

like entry into like the the unexplained

because we kind of thought, okay, people

are coming into season 2. what is going

to be the only palatable gateway in it

was like near-death experiences

because they become kind of like

irrefutable in some cases because so

many people have had them where there's

something called veritical um perception

you know what that is okay but for your

listeners who don't like it's something

you can verify during an NDE a

near-death experience so like you might

be out of your body and see something in

the hospital and report like like one is

really graphic like a color bag that

they were putting into like severed I

mean that Okay, like we can do another

example like your grandpa getting

peanuts out of the thing while they're

waiting for you like in surgery and

stuff like that and and you know that

they never eat peanuts. They don't even

like candy. But then this is an example

we heard. But then you know it came back

and it's like sure enough he was having

peanuts or

>> so it's an isolated piece of information

that is occurring away from the physical

periphery of someone's vessel that also

is not a generic piece of information

meaning like oh to say oh I know you

were in the waiting room wondering how

surgery was going that's very generic

that probably god forbid happens every

time someone's in surgery but to say I

saw as Bruce Grayson talked about I saw

that you had a tomato stain on your tie

and you were in the cafeteria and when

you were you were hiding the hiding

under your lab code,

>> right? Yes.

>> Those are pieces. Okay. So, that's the

kind of verifiable, right?

>> And like one of the examples that we

talk about in episode one that I find so

fascinating was a woman who was blind

and had a near-death experience and she

explained like what she couldn't see

when she came back. Her ring, the color

of her hair, what was going on around

her. I mean she had a complete vivid

description of it never having had sight

before. Jeffrey Long talks about this

also. He has these. Well, no. And people

who had never had vision describing

things that they oftenimes don't even

have words for because they've never

quote seen them. Like what is that?

Right.

>> Well, and to your point when she came

back and she said, "It's so cool though

that you can see in front of you and

behind you and up." And he's like, "No,

you can't. You can only see forward."

>> She thought everybody can. Oh my god.

>> And she's like, "What do you mean you

can only see forward? That's not true. I

could see everywhere and it was so cool.

And he's like, "No, no, no." Like,

that's not a thing. Like, we don't see

everywhere. And then, but that he was

like, "What was so fascinating about

that piece of information is that that's

how a lot of near-death experiencers

talk about their vision."

>> And the only way to explain that is that

there are not two eyeballs that are

looking forward and have, you know, this

kind of view that's roughly, I don't

know how many degrees, I can't remember

what it is. But the notion that seeing

is being,

>> right?

>> That existing in whatever plane of

consciousness allows you the ability to

have access to all of the information

which is not only visual. It's not only

auditory. There's something spiritual.

There's something that you're seeing and

experiencing that can only be described

as existing in some divine way. Right.

>> Well, and a lot of these people will

talk about being able to move at the

speed of thought. Like how cool is that?

>> And that answers come as quickly as you

ask them. Like time is time is

irrelevant.

>> Yeah. And one of the things that was

fascinating is like we looked back way

back into like ancient accounts and it

was like what was the best way to verify

near-death experience 2,000 years ago

and it would be someone who had this

near-death experience came back and was

like, "Oh, you know, Frank, whoever is

dead and it's probably not a name from

back then, but you know, whatever." And

then you know it would take to weeks

upon months to you often get news of

something like that and then like of

course like two weeks later this they'd

find out yes this person had died like

four weeks before and there's no way

they would have known. So verifying like

who else was in you know this other

place

>> right? I mean Jesus the most famous

example of someone

>> I mean but but when you think about the

language that is used to describe these

that was about 2,000 years ago right?

>> Yeah. There's a lot of cross-cultural

references with a ton of similarity.

What did you discover in that research

about ancient near-death experiences,

>> a lot of religious beliefs that started

all around the world had the same common

themes and then what was sort of

discovered by um Gregory Shushan who's a

who had studied um past life religion

started finding that there was

near-death experience accounts in all

these religions as well. And the reason

that the accounts of what the afterlife

was like or this other place was like

were so similar was because people were

saying, "Well, I've gone there and come

back again." And that the near-death

experiences around the world were very

similar in accounts. Regardless of what

religion, what background, what

continent you were living in, that you

left your body, there was usually some

sort of guide there. You had some sort

of life review. You um were told you had

to go back, but you didn't want to. your

this body and this place is not the the

the win. It's not where you want to go.

Um and often seeing loved ones um and

then yeah and then returning. So I

thought that was kind of interesting.

>> It also is significant and this is

something Brian Morescu talks about and

we spoke about with him um in the

immortality key, you know, the secret

history of the religion with no name.

There were also

longstanding traditions where meditative

practices, transcendental practices were

engaged that let you experience death

before death. And he talks about this in

some of the foundations of Western

civilization as we know it. But there

were very similar experiences described

of leaving your body. It's ego death,

right? And many people experience it

with psychedelics. Um, but there's

there's a place, right? And there it

seems that there's many ways to get

there.

>> The notion that all these religions

are either brought on or have their

sense of the afterlife informed by

near-death experiences for me is very

comforting because it removes the

institution of religion and shows these

common threads that are linking them to

some kind of truth. Because there's no

it doesn't matter the story if it

doesn't resonate with people like you

can say well this part of religion

doesn't make sense or this institution

has caused an enormous amount of damage

>> or I don't like those rules

>> or those rules don't make sense.

>> Yeah.

>> But things don't become this popular and

strike accord with this number of people

unless there's a universality in it that

has some resonance of a truth to it

beyond what we can explain. This is

where I will say that also it's possible

that and this is something that came up

in season one a lot. It's also possible

that there's some collective experience

that we are describing a certain way. I

think season two, it sounds like, is

really taking that next level dive to

say what does it look like to sort of

clinically drill down. Yeah. And see

what can we actually understand about a

larger truth,

>> right?

>> Like the mechanism or the

>> Sure. the depth. I mean, yeah.

>> And I think the thing that we keep

stumbling across over and over again is

like, oh, when you go way way back, all

this was common knowledge. It's like

we've forgotten. And like especially in

our plant episode, which what was at

first I'm like, what is this episode

going to be about? Like it feels like we

need to do it, but what the heck? Like

plants coming. Okay. Like it feels

tricky. And then of course there was a

non-speaker in Connecticut who as soon

as she starts spelling was able to tell

you this is what's going on with you.

This is the herb you need. You need to

have a stragalus, some Chinese herb that

like how would the family know about

that? They didn't. So she is able to

diagnose someone with a very accurate

herb diagnosis. you know, you need to

take this tea or have uh stinging

nettles and hot water or whatever.

>> And um

>> and it's the the proper benedist

treatment for whatever is ailing the

person

>> and it's proof of authorship. It's proof

of telepathy or or because she's like I

can communicate with plants easily. I

can hear them. And at one point her

sister was the one helping spell with

her when I'd send the questions. And one

of the questions like well how do you

know what plant? And she goes well

plants communicate. It's more like a

smoke around you. that's so soft and so

gentle and so there but she's like I'll

know who lit the fire. Like where the

message is coming from what plant and

and she's like they're so loving.

They're so unconditionally caring for

us. Like you think about plants really

work together. They move to give give

each other sun. They don't try to take

the sun away like we do. And um and so

she had a lot to say about plant and

plant communication. Um, but one of the

questions we started asking like is she

actually communicating with a plant or

is a plant some sort of like receptor of

some likeformational field that's like

almost like bing bing and then like can

I do this, I do this, but it's like

reflecting this information from like a

greater consciousness to us

>> or is she telepathically picking up on

um this young nonspeaker has Cuban roots

and she said that she communicates a lot

with her ancestors in Cuba and stuff. Is

she knowing the knowledge? Because her

Abua we interviewed for this too and her

Abua was like, "Oh yeah, like there a

lot of this like you know we revered in

my culture growing up and that type of

thing and it's like or is it you're

telepathically grabbing the information

from someone else like how is this

happening?" But when we went back into

like some of the ancient cultures and

stuff, there's so many people who talked

about, "No, no, no. The plant told me to

do this with it or or um I could talk to

the plants and say, I know you have

poison XYZ, but I need to reach in here

to grab this, so please don't give me

the don't make my skin itch." And just a

lot of examples of this

>> communication,

>> telepathic communication between plants

and humans. It

>> it makes sense to me.

>> This makes sense to you that plants

speak to humans. They would speak in a

very soft way. They wouldn't be as loud

as an animal would be.

>> That's what makes sense to you.

>> That makes total sense. Although I think

a like maybe poisonous plants speak

differently. Maybe could be wrong. Also,

I think the question of where that

information is coming from. Is it a

larger consciousness system

facilitating the healing of a human

being and the plant is just a messenger

or tool for the larger consciousness

system?

>> Or do plants

have almost more agency or care over

human nature because you would imagine

maybe they're angry at us for like

chopping them down and pulling them out

of our garden.

>> Yeah,

>> but maybe not. No, maybe they don't

carry that.

>> I have been asking that a lot with the

communication with animals and plants

and no one seems mad at us which I'm

like how are they not mad at us?

>> I would be

>> everyone should be all the things should

be mad at us. I mean I have a spiritual

answer to that which is that in a place

in a place other than this one if

everything is suffused with love meaning

if that's sort of like the universal

langu I mean I'm going out on a limb

here but if that is the universal

language it's a place beyond our human

understanding of what is possible in

terms of tone

>> right

>> and in terms of like it's not that

there's good and bad it just kind of is

right

>> right like that's a and that from people

who have NDEs that we've spoken to that

is such a relief

>> and that is why the decision to come

back

>> is so hard because what would it and I

get chills on the right side of my skull

you know what would it be like to be in

a place where you don't have to make

those judgments right or people always

say like well what about Hitler where is

he right people love to bring up these

human you know judgment questions

>> you can't imagine when Betty when Buddha

Betty said that even her abusers, even

the people who abused her, the

understanding she had of what they had

to experience to hurt, it was so it was

next level. It was the definition of

forgiveness and acceptance. So that's

what I would imagine again if we're

thinking if you were a plant,

>> if I was a plant,

>> we can't use human terms. And I think

that's what is so interesting that I'd

like for you to touch on which was a

large focus of of season one. What is it

right about people who, for example,

have limited speech that can open up a

portal to some kind of other

understanding? And what do you think

that says about what the brain allows us

to experience? What did you learn about

that? And what does season 2 offer in

terms of who has this ability and why?

It's interesting because I finished up

like one of our final interviews for

season two right before this and I was

talking to a non-speaking young man who

can communicate with horses and animals

and so this is going to answer your

question but it was really interesting

because his mom was like I always knew

something was going on and I wrote a

book with him at one point and and I

before the telepathy tapes came out and

she's like I knew he was telepathic and

I was so scared to put it in there and

then and then we heard the telepathy

tapes and I was like oh my gosh I'm not

alone like this is so wild and she's So

I started testing him and she's like I I

didn't know I could test him and she's

like and suddenly he would do numbers or

I could think of a song in my head and

he could start humming it or playing it.

>> So it wasn't just horses.

>> No.

>> What was he hearing from the horses?

Like give us an example.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. So with the horse

>> like I would think horses are like I'm a

horse.

>> Yeah. Like the horse told me he's a

horse. I'd be like that's not really

proof. What is the what is this

communication like?

>> Like she would um

>> everything's a cartoon in your head.

>> Yeah. Jonathan has a very special

brother.

>> He has a traumatic brain injury and he's

special and he sees the world in in a

very different way.

>> He's also extremely sensitive to other

people's thoughts.

>> Yes. And emotions.

>> And emotions. So if you are thinking

something very loudly around him, he

will have a somatic response where he

starts yawning it like he starts to be

impacted. We took him to the aquarium

and they had that day a very large

alligator

>> and you don't want to go near its face.

>> And the lady is standing in her little

khaki outfit. All the kids are waiting

to touch it and we wait our turn and I'm

with I'm with Daniel and she says his

name is Patrick. Daniel says how do you

know?

And she looks at him like I was like

thanks.

But it it occurred to like how do you

know? And so that's what I'm thinking.

Okay, go ahead.

>> Sorry.

>> The kid has a horse. We're very serious.

>> The kid has a horse. We've been waiting

a long time since our saved up all our

best jokes. Okay. The kid has a horse.

>> The kid has a Yeah. And um and there was

all sorts of examples of the horse would

be sad cuz like a horse died or there'd

be something going on with the horse

people. I mean the horse horses the

horse community around death or sickness

and that he would tell his mom and then

the mom would find out separately that

like yes this other horse is sick or had

passed and stuff like that. But then she

said that at one point blackjack was

dying and she had to pick up her son and

say like blackjack has cancer. But the

day she picked him up to tell him that,

he was really happy and he's like, "No,

no, no. This is like good for Blackjack

because I'll be able to still ride him

on the hill and he'll be fine." And then

now Blackjack is gone. But she was like,

and she also, she's like, "I had he told

me he went somewhere without his body,

but he didn't start calling it the hill

until after those healthy tapes." And he

told me, "Oh, what I used to call

heaven, I think is actually the hill,

and I go there all the time." And etc,

etc. Anyway, he said, um, I can I can

ride blackjack now. When I go out of

body, I can meet blackjack there also

out of body and ride blackjack. I never

I mean, that is wild.

>> Well, and you're distinguishing it from

I can think about what it would be like.

That's not what this child is

communicating. No, because when when an

animal dies, you can say, "Oh, I can be

with them." Or

>> that that's not what No. Well, and

there's a place that this ch presumably

that this child knows is not this

corporal being. Yeah. But I go somewhere

and I can have experiences with this

animal that I communicate with.

>> Yeah. And you asked right before that

which brought up the story and then we

went a million wonderful beautiful ways

was like how why or how does this

happen? And so he had said to his mother

when she's like how and why did this

happen? You know, how can you do this?

He's like, I had to to survive. Like, I

had no other way to communicate for a

long time. I had no other way to engage

socially, and this was my survival, and

we will find a way to connect as human

beings if you don't have one, which is

so beautiful. And and I I've said this

many times. I think this has nothing to

do with autism. I think in the case of

the PE non-speakers we feature in season

one, it's about araxia, this mind by

disconnect or not in your body. Um,

we've since heard and we know of parents

that have um who've written in that have

kids with Rhett syndrome, DDX3X

syndrome,

um, Down syndrome,

uh, all sorts of things who were like,

"This is true of my child as well." And

it's not just the telepathy, it's also

connecting with spirits or whatever. Um,

so that was really interesting. And

then, as we know, it has to do with

Alzheimer's as well. So there's

something to do with not being as

tethered to your physical form. Like

there seems to be another part of us.

There's us, you know, when I you can

squeeze right now or whatever. And then

there's the other part of us that if

we're not functioning in all ways is

also there, right, with Alzheimer's and

near-death experience,

>> right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's

about a it's about a shift of

consciousness. There's also something

about being tethered to language,

reading, writing, and that part of the

brain that works on that analytical

level.

When that's turned off or slowed down,

compromised in some way, it leaves room

for some other form of communication.

>> Do you explore? Because one of the

things that we talked about with Jim

Tucker, there are

children who claim that they have lived

other lives and there's been some really

really you know incredible levels of

detail research. I mean this is what you

know Jim Tucker has spent a lot of his

career you know um talking about do you

have any sense of what is going on when

people are experiencing the

consciousness of other people

>> I don't know I don't know um but like I

can think about what some non-speakers

have said and I mean one is that like

time is like we have multiple lives

happening all at once

There's a young man in England that was

like, "Yeah, you have multiple lives and

all going on at the same time

in different places. That's hard to wrap

your head around."

>> Physics does it. I mean, you know, if

you get deep enough into theoretical and

quantum physics, there's explanations

for spin and

>> yeah,

>> electrons and things. Okay. So, that

>> and so this was also really weird and

I'm still trying to wrap my head around

this. Is this time travel, remote

viewing through time? Is it time folding

on upon itself? Is it a reincarnation

thing? But so for the telepathy tapes

film that we're we just finished our

tests like the big telepathy test across

rooms and states and all that stuff and

and that was brand new group of

non-speakers, brand new scientists like

all the things were new to be like look

okay like it's all new. It's you know

peer-reviewed and um that group of

non-speakers in Chicago are amazing. And

one of the young men at one point starts

spelling a word and both his mom and the

teacher are in the room and they're

like, "What is this word?" And they goo

they they Google it, nothing. They look

in the dictionary, nothing. And then

they start doing a deeper dive and

probably went into AI or whatever. And

finally like this word was used often in

like the 1200s, but but it's out of

>> no

>> it's out of no one talks about it

anymore. And he had spelled it

correctly. And when they asked him about

it the next day or a few days later when

they figured out what this word meant,

they were like, "How do you know this

word and how did you use it correctly?"

And he's like, "Oh, I found out from the

Spanish magistrate uh in the 1200s."

What? Like how is that an answer? And

>> the horse told me.

>> Yeah. But it was like it was used

correctly and then they looked it up in

terms of like the Spanish magistrate.

all the things were coming together and

then something happened where he just

was done talking about it and like they

couldn't like bring back that you know

he was just okay I'm done with that

topic but I need to follow up with them

because the question is like how did he

know that and he said he went and talked

to the Spanish magistrate

>> well I don't mean to quote your own

season one to you but you know there was

I can't remember which episode it was

but there was you know there's evidence

of knowing language, knowing things

about

>> in episode seven. Um, no, but you know

the like how do we wrap our heads around

that the only way to explain it again is

that information right is out there and

you can pull from it and it's not

linear, right? Like time doesn't matter,

right? Yeah,

>> we're like in some sort of, you know,

shape that you can just dip into all of

it. I don't know.

>> I want to maybe blow your mind with a

story, but I can't speak of it as

articulately as we do in the show

because the guy the way. Okay. So,

there's a savant who's in episode I

don't know, he's in season two and he's

in the savant episode where we go and

look at like accidental savants like hit

on the head.

>> This is where I was going to go without

acquired. required sants and there's

some just like born sants but it's

mostly people who had like some stroke

of genius

>> well he had an accident where he started

seeing like math everywhere but more

than math um

>> uh fractals and light and what he says

is like how math and physics explain the

world is they're only looking at like

the screen of all the possible

opportunities that could be happening

now probabilities

>> but he sees beyond the screen and he's

like what everyone is studying is right

if you only explain the screen and he's

like but I see

>> does he see the elves

>> the elves I need to ask him. I know the

elves.

>> The Terrence McKenna elves. That's who's

behind the screen.

>> No, I don't think he's

>> So what? He describes something that

he's visually experiencing.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> Like beautiful mind like equation. So he

sees outside of

>> he sees outside of the thing. And one of

the things he says, and this is the

where, please don't quote me because I'm

not going to do it right. He talks about

like everything is a spinning fractal

blah blah blah and you can bring

everything down to this one equation or

item in the universe which I don't

remember what it is right off the top of

my head but he said that he started

doing these like language tests where um

if you look at the word you know casa or

home or the same word for like abode in

Russian or whatever the like equation is

the same behind everything. So this is a

mystical concept also in he in ancient

Hebrew there's a mystical concept that

essentially the word the concept

>> yes

>> exists and then every language will

place its phone names on it

>> yes so in ancient Hebrew a lot of the

words are anamanopic because

>> like the word for fire esh

>> that's the sound a fire makes is so that

the notion is like that that's why you

get it my name my name is water it's

like a Right.

>> So that the word is just the human

articulation of the essence of it. I

mean that would be my best explanation.

>> Yeah.

>> Season 3 of telepathy tapes.

>> Yeah. There you go.

>> Well, you know, it's interesting like so

we talk a little bit to the Lakota in in

season 2 because they their language is

exactly the same. It's like what the

bird would sound like.

>> Correct. Well, it's like the essence of

the thing and then we try and put

letters on it. Right. And indigenous

languages traditionally weren't written,

right? Like some part of their brain is

disrupted

either shut down or becomes

non-functional and then they acquire

some other skill that they did not have.

>> Before my dad had back surgery, he said

to the doctor, "Will I be able to play

piano?" And the surgeon was like,

"Yeah." And my dad's like, "I couldn't

play before."

as his dad joke before surgery.

>> It wouldn't be appropriate obviously to

take people in double blind studies and

shut down parts of their brain to mimic.

>> No, you can't injure people by hitting

them on the head with a sledgehammer and

seeing if they acquire abilities. IRB

would have a very hard time approving

that.

>> That would not be my approach. My

approach would be if there were some way

to non-permanently shut down those parts

of the brain to see if they could

>> There are ways that you can essentially

like freeze certain regions

>> and do people get other qualities and

like what would I be willing to trade

off to be able to get like languages

>> I would like you to be able to have a

conversation without checking your phone

I will exchange it for your dimple on

your right cheek

>> but you know when the materialists who

we speak to sometimes and

>> we let them come on sometimes

>> it's a very challenging conversation to

have with them because they are very

very very certain that none of this is

true and They come at it often with a

level of eye and annoyance that you

could even contemplate stuff like this

in the horse situation where you know

some horse used to I think did math and

the counting horse and then proven that

the horse wasn't really yeah wasn't

really counting it was just very

astrutive body language

>> that doesn't explain how a child would

know that a horse not near him has died

because he's in communication with

another horse In defense of materialism,

what they would say is, "We are we're

relying on an anecdotal report. For all

we know, this child said every horse is

dead." And what his mother reported or

whoever, and this is not to disparage

it, but materialists would say, you

cannot build a worldview off that kind

of report because, as I said, what if

the kid woke up and was like, "Oh, the

horses are dying." And she'd be like,

"Even this one?" And he'd be like, "Yes,

even that one." That's a different

thing. And that's why season two is

being a little more structured in the

way that we're talking about things

because we can't build a worldview on

just that.

>> There is an arrogance though in this

idea that like we know all there is to

know.

>> Yes.

>> Because that's what's exciting to me. I

mean, they used to think that God made a

rainbow. You know what I mean? I mean,

or the earth was flat. Like there's many

things we believed and that scientists

were certain of and then it changed.

>> We used to believe that everything we

see is all that there is, right? until

we realized, oh, there's other

wavelengths and actually we're watch

we're looking at everything that's left

over when this object has absorbed all

of the other wavelengths that exist.

Right.

>> Right.

>> Or

>> consciousness that most of us cannot

access.

>> Right. And what you have done is brought

to the forefront a conversation about

>> it may not be everyone

>> but if there's one person right that is

experiencing this

>> that's significant for us as a human

species. Yes. And it deserves attention,

>> respect and further research. That's

what it means to be a scientist.

>> Exactly. Exactly. How has it been for

you to be on the front lines of

presenting and opening up people's

minds, offering the notion that there is

more? Have you felt attacked? Have you

met the materialists? I was so um so

like blown away by all that I saw with

the non-speakers and how widespread this

is and and there's so many there's so

much evidence of it beyond forget

spelling or the easy things to try to

attack like it's there with or without

it right these kids are doing stuff from

the author many states away so I

remember the first time that someone's

like oh there was like a article in the

Atlantic saying how contro I was like

it's controversial like I could not

believe it the vitrial in which some

some it was being received or like

rebutted and um yeah and so and then

that kept happening and then there was a

lot of like hit pieces where you know

journalists would say oh we want to do

this or this and take everything out of

context or take all you know it just

like complete where every single person

involved was like what what like what is

this and so I wasn't prepared for that I

thought I just didn't know that could

happen to that degree because it felt to

me I was like but that they're lying not

us. And so that was weird, you know, cuz

I'm like I I'm the type of person that's

like you should never ban a book and

information is amazing and obviously we

should have the freedom of the press and

like I believe in all those things,

>> but it was and it was so strange to be

on the receiving end of like wait I I'm

the one that like they're thinking is

like maybe bonkers or lying or somehow

fraudulent or you know what I mean? Like

it was it was it was and then I just had

to be like I think it was my dad who's

really a materialist was like this is

great. He's like they wouldn't be

talking about it unless you're getting

under their skin. And he's like it's

it's not going to be easy if you're

putting out something challenging.

Keep going. Because I was so worried

about I don't know you always I mean at

least me I'm always worried about like

oh my dad was such a such a materialist

like such a nerd. He reads so much every

day. He's so scientific. he does not

believe in anything like this. And so it

was a big leap for me to do this, not

knowing if my dad would like disown me.

>> And then I think going through so many

conversations and footage and going to

shoots and seeing stuff I brought him,

you know, he's completely changed his

mind by seeing it next to me. But when

some of the articles come out in the

magazines and newspapers I know he

loves, it was so beautiful for him to

say, "This is awesome."

What do you feel like season 2 is

incorporating that season 1 did not have

so that maybe you can refute some of the

challenges that people had were and were

poking at.

>> Well, there's two things I think for

like non-speakers. The film will refute

I think anything to do with spelling and

all that stuff is just like and the

science I mean what's so great right now

is the scientists have taken note not

all but many have done their own

telepathy test now have done their own

message passing tests between

non-speakers and people in different

rooms and I think the authorship is

going to be put to bed telepathy tests

have been now validated there's been

studies done at Stanford

um University of Virginia University of

Oregon we follow Dr. Julie Mossbridge, a

former Northwestern neuroscientist. I

mean, and it was like from different

states. Like one of the tests that Dr.

Mossberg did, um, and they were on Zoom

because it was like pre-trials from

different states was a neuroscientist

calling from Oregon. I think she was in

Virginia and the student and his

communication partner were in Chicago.

They had a video on the screen that Dr.

Brbridge, you know, uh, had sent or

whatever hit the button and it went to

this guy in Oregon. He was looking at a

video with a word coming across it. The

boy in Chicago starts describing the

video. No.

>> And spelled out the word.

>> No.

>> And that's it. That's it's done then.

That's the most impossible telepathy

test to do.

>> And it was done.

>> It's fascinating. And recently we spoke

to a materialist who said everything on

telepathy in the past is absolutely

debunked. There's no validity to it. and

like this is, you know, a very uh

important professor and I'm like I'm

like where are the links? Where can

because I he's like if the research

comes out I I'll look at it.

>> And also like when shooting the film

what was really interesting is a lot of

the neuroscientists who've now been

looking at this are like there's two

different types of telepathy. We think

there's um close proximity telepathy

where a lot of these non-speakers seem

to be able to just like dip into the

person next to them like like mingling

of their whatevers. And um and then

there's this like much more common

telepathy that all of us I think are

familiar with where there's an urgent

need an emotional something that happens

where you get you know someone's hurt

you know you need to call this person

you know XYZ and I think that's happened

throughout time and serves us really

well and that one is almost impossible

to capture in a lab setting. I mean, how

can you? Yeah. However, and I don't know

if this was the non-speakers just trying

to show off, but um

>> but in Chicago, Dr. Mossbridge had been

doing a bunch of tests over I think

months or weeks. I mean, we you know, we

don't aren't involved with tests. We

just document it. So, she had to fund

them and do her own stuff and do her own

trials. We get to show for one day and

that was it. She had done tens of trials

before this. On the one day we were

there, the most unbelievable um account

of spontaneous needed telepathy happened

while all the cameras were rolling. What

was it?

>> I can't I don't want to say because it's

like a huge moment in the film, but you

see the telepathy happening and

occurring not just like throughout the

building, but through like with a

stranger in another place and and it's

all captured. And so, you know, I feel

like any of the

doubting of the non-speakers, the

teachers, the families, um, that came

from season 1, I think the film will put

that to rest. Season two, um, I mean, I

hope it will put it to rest. I don't

know. We did our best. I mean, I feel

good about it, but um, there's always

going to be naysayers and but season two

is a different quest. I think it's less

about validating the competence of

non-speakers and the validity of

spelling and it's much more an

exploration of consciousness and

materialism.

>> In my family, we have an example of

this. I wouldn't have thought of it as

spontaneous telepathy when my mother was

pregnant with me. My mother was pregnant

with me and she was being driven to a

checkup appointment for me. I was born

in San Diego and they had just moved

from New York and my mom's sister was

driving her. She was very pregnant with

me and they were driving to the doctor.

And the way the story is told, my mother

all of a sudden said to my aunt, "Turn

the car around. We have to go back to

mommy." You know, my grandmother. And my

aunt was like, "What do you mean we're

driving to the doctor?" My mother said,

"Um, you have to turn around." My mother

felt paralysis on half of her face and

her body. And she turned around when

they got home, my grandmother was laying

on the floor and had had a stroke and

had hemiparesis.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. And wow, you know, we're Hungarian

on that side of my family and I meet a

lot of Hungarian people who are like,

"Oh, yeah, that happens in our family

also." Like there's a lot Yeah. There's

something about

>> the Hungarian ladies apparently that

we're supposedly have special powers and

my mom clearly's got something. My

mother believes she manifests things all

the time, but that that specific exper I

can't explain that. If I'm believing

what my mother reported, that would be a

highly unusual thing to have happen,

especially for her to experience

paralysis. Now, she could be remembering

it wrong.

>> That's what the materialist would say.

>> She could be remembering it wrong.

>> Memory is faulty.

>> Correct. That the stroke could have been

the next day or two weeks before like we

which we don't know and you can't put it

in a laboratory. So, yeah. Did he did

this guy comment on all of the Gansfeld

studies that have been done over the

course of

>> Jonathan felt?

>> I don't have Jonathan felt wfully

unprepared.

>> So I feel unprepared to defend the

castle. We need a repository like a

document that we can go to and say,

"Well, how about this and what about

that?" And like the next phase of our

conversations need needs backup.

>> You know, uh uh Dean Raiden, he kind of

goes through on his iPad. He was doing

it for my benefit, but then it was so

helpful. We're like, "Oh, we'll just

actually put this clip in the movie of

him going through his iPad with like all

the different metadata around Gansfeld

studies across the the world and how,

you know, when you look at the thousands

of maybe it's hundreds, I don't know,

the many many many many Gansfeld studies

that have been done across the world in

different labs over a span of years, um

it's very statistically significant. As

much so that like if it was a

pharmaceutical drug in a trial, you'd be

like, "Yes, approved." you know, but

because it's dealing with something so

like but the thing what happens I think

with the non-speakers in these tests if

is in the Gansfeld thing it's above

chance by five six seven% which is still

statistically relevant.

>> I mean I don't know if it's just me

playing out my own materialists father

attitude and looking for his approval

the way that your father sounds like it

was very lovely that he came on board to

this journey. Um, but I do feel like

it's a calling of mine to butt up and

present information that the

materialists either have not accessed or

are actively trying to either ignore or

discredit and say, well, because I just

want there to be some

consideration and acknowledgment if if

there is real data and I and again I'm

not a data expert, but I'm like then

people who analyze real data, which

again I'm not one of those people,

should know about it and agree to it.

>> Yeah.

>> And if they choose to then ignore it

because of for emotional reasons or it's

just too difficult to explain, purely

reject it before evaluating it, that

seems like a lack of communication.

>> Yeah. And I think that's the last option

you gave is probably more um reflective

of what's happening because some of

those Gonfeld studies have been actually

published in mainstream journals. Like

the science is out there. It's just if

you can't explain why it's happening,

which they can't. I don't think anyone

can explain why it's happening or how

it's possible and that becomes a problem

right but it is happening

>> most of this kind of you know research

into trying to understand these other

states of consciousness you know for for

those of us who are you know not in the

non-speaking autism community right or

in research around those for for for a

lot of people it is about a shift of

consciousness that comes usually from a

specific specific kind of meditation,

right? It's like when Thomas Campbell as

a, you know, young physics student tries

trans transcendental meditation for the

first time and all of a sudden he's like

rocketed into the universe and doesn't

know where time is or his body is and

he's like what was that? Like that's

something that most people need to learn

to study to drop into. What's special

about I mean I'd like to study Thomas

Campbell's brain to be able to say what

was it about being given some very basic

instructions about breathing that I've

heard dozens and dozens and dozens of

times and I've never gone to that place

ever ever you know and I'm trying and

I'm thinking I'm praying I'm meditating

you

>> so there's something about certain

brains right that seem to have some

access

>> to a state that is different than the

one that we can explain.

That's the most basic

>> scientific thing that we can say

>> because even like lucid dreaming, I

can't do that. Some people can. Seems

really cool.

>> I've had I've had some experiences with

like the yoga nidra practice, which is

you're putting your body to sleep

>> and you're keeping your mind awake,

which many people say is this kind of

experience. Like

>> often I just fall asleep.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> I skip right through that state and I

just go night night. We were I was like

on a shoot recently and like everyone at

the table had this experience where they

felt like they were being attacked by a

monster at night and I'm like what are

you guys talking about? Have you heard

about this? But it's a sleep paralysis

thing. It's like a thing that is really

common that happens with sleep paralysis

but you'll actually see what feels like

a being holding you down and everyone at

the table is like no I'm so certain it

happened. I'm like that did not happen.

I mean and that was me to completely

describe. I was like that was

impossible. Like what do you guys mean?

Like everyone had a

>> even Kai didn't believe it.

>> I was like I do. And then I looked it up

and it was like there's a constant

there's a common sleep paralysis

>> for hundreds of I mean for probably

longer than hundreds of years

>> it was called something oh it was during

the telepathy test and it was like the

DP the producer and someone else we were

all sitting having dinner afterward and

like one of them was like I've never

told anyone this but like this has

happened to me throughout time and I

wake up and there's like something on me

holding me down.

>> I've heard about people who have had

this.

>> Yeah. And then like the guy was like,

"Oh my god, I thought there was just me

and I thought and then I was just like,

wait, this is like too obscure that you

both are having the same thing. There

must be some rational explanation."

>> So yeah, it's called night hag, a

phenomenon in which a sleeper feels the

presence of a supernatural malevolent

being. Um, but also um a mare in

Germanic and Slavic folklore would

historically sit on your chest. A lot of

people thought that this was one of the

reasons that it was like an old wives

tale not to let a cat in the baby's crib

that the cat would sit on the baby's

chest and suffocate them. So, I think

it's also, you know, it's something

that's

>> but anyway, that's like a a thing that

happens to some brains that I've never

experienced. So, it's like we have these

things that happen in our brains that

you might not experience that other

people have.

>> It's like not everyone has to experience

something. And that's what, you know, a

lot of materialists will say. Well, if

that's true, if remote viewing can exist

at all, everyone should have it. And I'm

thinking everyone should be winning the

lottery all the time,

>> like, oh, they'd be able to read the

lottery. I was like, no, that's actually

not at all how I would imagine that it

works. That's like saying if one person

is a concert pianist, we can all be

like, we all have different brains,

abilities, like access to different

things. So, for me, like that's sort of

what resonated, you know, from season 1

was like there's something that's

getting either released uninhibited,

right,

>> or accessed as some sort of portal. I

don't think of it as magical because I

think it's

>> right

>> something tangible, right? We just don't

know how to describe it. We don't really

know what it is, but we're trying to

chip away at it and it's gonna take all

of us to figure it out.

>> Yeah. Well, here's what I think is

really great about your show, and I

think here's what's resonating about

like a lot of stuff just as we even talk

about this is I think for a long time it

was felt really binary. Like if you

believe in this stuff, you're absolutely

silly. You're not worth an an academic

discussion. You you can be discounted.

And if you do believe in it, you're woo

woo. You're like out of control. Like

you're a hippie wearing delusional.

Yeah. You're like all the things.

>> And and then I think there's a

>> Did you say wearing purple?

>> No. Birkenstock. I don't know. Yeah. And

purple. Like all the things. Yeah. And I

feel like most of us probably fall in

the middle where you really don't want

to believe in something without a

credible reason to believe it. You want

to be grounded in reality. You want to

have some sort of evidence and data to

inform your facts and worldview. But

you're also open to that there's maybe

more than what we see. And you don't

want just to be I'm one or the other. I

want to create a worldview that makes

sense and is meaningful based on data

and science and observation and

anecdotal evidence.

>> Well, you don't want to be fooled in

either direction.

>> Right.

>> Right. Like you don't want to be so out

there that like anything is possible and

I walk in and it's the spirits of the

house that are controlling me.

>> No. But we know a lot of people like

that. And those are the kind of people

that when I spoke to them about the

telepathy tapes, they felt like, and I'm

just going to communicate this to you as

a personal thank you, they felt like it

was a giant hug from the universe

because many people felt like I always

knew. I always knew that I could feel

something different. I always knew I

could be in touch with other things. I

always knew there was more than what

they told me to believe. And for many

people, that's what season one of the

telepathy tapes did. It was like, I

don't need anything more. I feel seen.

And like, if seeing people is the first

step to opening that door, that's

incredibly important, you know?

>> Yes.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> It's so hard to believe someone that is

like has something to gain by making

sure these things are real, right? like

a medium who's making money off of it or

a psychic or whatever and and um or a

healer that sells a lot of books and

sells out amphitheaters. I think it's

there's it's very easy like hm

>> what's the motivation

>> right

>> or if you have this wisdom give be like

the Buddha sit under the tree and I will

come get the wisdom.

>> Yeah. Right. And and also not to be a

downer, but sometimes there are people

who

>> like when you say, "Oh, if you believe

this, then you're also into other

things." Like sometimes they're so into

some practices that make it hard to

function in everyday society.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I think for

the non-speaking individuals who were

profiled in season one,

>> I mean, what at least their lives as

they were when we were filming them and

talking to them, they often weren't

going to school. you would couldn't up

yourself in the social ladder. You

weren't going to make money. You

couldn't profit off of anything. You

couldn't even live outside of your own

home. I mean, there's nothing to gain

and it takes so freaking long to spell a

sentence like minutes and often

exhausted at the end. So, it's like

you're not going to sit there and be

like, I'm going to buffoon like everyone

here and you know,

>> but in the same regard that people don't

want to be fooled in one direction,

>> I also don't want to be fooled that

material reality is all that there is.

>> Yes. And when we consider what we've

learned about the mind body connection

>> that we can change our pain tolerance

that you can MRI people with back pain

and people without back pain and

sometimes like more than statistically

significant you can't tell from the

images alone who has that pain or the

placebo effect um experiments where

people had fake knee surgeries and had

the same outcome as real knee surgeries.

>> And I like that one. I mean like it

starts to really change how we

>> apply medicine.

>> Right. Right.

>> Now there's a very scary slippery slope

which the materialist will say well and

this is was said to us recently well if

you believe in God you won't take

medicine. So therefore the belief in God

is dangerous.

>> What

>> exactly? If you feel more connected to

something and less alone and less

despair and that you're a part of

something greater than yourself, which

can be described as feeling a sense of

God and connection to that source, a

universal consciousness, it you know

that your immune system works better,

you recover from surgery better, you may

have less aches and pains, you may feel

stronger, more hopeful, and your body

will respond accordingly. So like I

don't want one side or the other to

dominate the conversation. Just to

clarify, I think that what what this

counterpoint was was many people would

say, "God told me not to take medicine."

And so you could argue that simply

saying you have a religious faith, that

in and of itself doesn't it doesn't

prove anything. It doesn't justify

anything because people kill in the name

of God, people do horrible things in the

name of God. They you know, I don't need

to list all the things anyway.

>> You're right.

>> Yeah. It's it's like the act of faith is

more important than the fact of faith,

right? Like we know that believing in

something even if it's your own healing

ability is really good. And that is

something materialists will jump on is

like, "Oh, well then why do why does

believing have to be the thing? Oh, I

can only see blah blah blah if I believe

in it." I don't know. But we know the

placebo effect works. So believing

matters

>> and should be actually utilized much

more. I think it would save a lot of

people's livers and immune systems if we

use the placebo instead of a lot of the

medications that we're told to take that

in many cases are not helpful.

>> Yeah.

>> Sorry.

>> But it's an interesting thought exercise

because like even when you're talking

about some of the stuff which is pretty,

you know, immaterial and unexplained.

There is always this deep reverence I

think from a lot of people like but how

do we reach the materialist or how do

you reach that person out there? And

there is part of me that's just like

that you don't have to reach everyone.

>> I would like you to.

>> Yeah. I mean we're trying.

>> I really want that. I really want that.

>> Yeah. But like you you don't it's not

like the the mark of whether or not

something's true. I think is like can

you change these minds?

>> Can you change some minds? Can you

change a lot of minds?

>> And I think that's part of the the

patronizing aspect of this argument is

it becomes this parent you can never

please. Yeah.

>> Right. and that everything we do doesn't

need to be to please our parent.

to find what work for us and for you

it's going down this path and maybe you

know that you know you'll please your

parent

>> I'm so like like struck by that analogy

just because it was like my real life

like that my dad was that

>> I was and I wasn't even thinking of your

dad but and also in the patriarchal

structure that we live in and also God

as father I mean like all these all the

imagery that we're told is that

>> also do you have Time to talk to my dad.

>> Yeah, totally. He should, you know what

we should do?

>> Get all the

>> Get all the

>> We should start a dad listening

community.

>> Oh, that would be interesting. Oh my

gosh, that would be so sweet.

>> And they could have like a support group

from recovering materialists.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, I would like to ask you about remote

viewing. Does season 2 incorporate

remote viewing? Did that come up in the

research?

>> Because we've spoken to Julia about it.

um who we've spoken to other people

about Thomas Campbell we've spoken to

about it and others and it is you know a

fascinating example of if I'm not

tethered to my physical form if my

consciousness is able to move freely

around this non-material world if the

people who have had near-death

experiences have the ability to have 3D

vision then what else is possible

>> I think we're going to do a whole season

remote viewing because it it feels like

one of the those concrete

sigh abilities that many people can

learn and experience. We know

governments have poured a lot of money

into it. There's a wonderful book by

Annie Jacobson called the phenomenon and

it's not about UFOs. It's about the CIA

um psychic spy program. We spoke to

Angela Ford who uh could frequently

leave her body as a child but never

thought of it as a special ability and

then was trained in remote viewing and

worked for the government and solved

some very specific very specific crimes

with her skills. I think that is just

more validation that well okay it's

interesting because we actually have one

story in season two about um someone who

had takes psychedelics and is able to

find like missing children through

remote viewing.

>> It's literally an episode of Black

Mirror.

>> Really?

>> What? Yeah.

>> They they need to be under the influence

to access

>> this case. Well, this was more of like

an elder in you know a a South American

tribe but

>> Wow. Yeah,

>> that's a tool that was used.

>> Yeah. To find some children who were

missing like um in the jungle that

governments couldn't find, but he but

they finally were like, "Let's tap in,

you know, the elder." And and I think it

was Iawaska, you know, and and um and it

was a very, you know, sacred thing. It's

not like, "Hey, party, we're at Burning

Man." It was like, "Okay, let's go find

>> find these kids." And they did. So if

you can turn that stuff on through

psychedelics

>> and we know what's going on in the brain

to some extent with psychedelics. I mean

we have some indications. Yeah.

>> I mean just feel like there's such if

non-speakers are clearly saying they can

do it and and I think it happens quite

often. You know exactly where mom is

when this was happening or

>> you have to look at the overlap. Right.

Right. Look at the overlap.

>> Right. It happens with psychedelics. It

happens with these psychic spies. We

know government spent a lot of money

meditation. Tom Campbell leaving his

body and doing I mean it it happens from

so many different things. So that to me

is like that's a slam dunk. Like how on

earth can you describe so many different

sex of people having the ability to see

something somewhere very far away?

Something very far away.

>> So there's an example of someone who's

using it to find children. We spoke to

Angela.

>> She like would find a criminal that the

town that he was in. Do you have a

little bit of sort of an explanation for

people if you're like ramping them into

this idea like again the materialist

which has really stuck with me this

conversation we brought it up

>> try a little bit

>> and he was like well the government has

spent money on a lot of stupid things

that doesn't mean that it's true

>> and I'm like this is we spoke to someone

>> also generally speaking I don't like

what the government does a lot of the

time so I'm like I can't pick and choose

>> but in my mind I was like oh the CIA is

spending their time and we spoke to

someone who was like using this skill to

solve crime. I thought maybe that would

validate it a little bit for them and

and it didn't. But like I feel like

maybe understanding the history and the

origins a little bit more

>> when maybe one of the non-speakers and

their parents are here for like the film

or something. You just see it. Just

experience it. Bring your dad

>> and then you'll just see the telepathy

right here. We can do it. We put the

petition down. Think of a word. Write it

down.

>> Oh my gosh. I would love that. I would

love that. experiencing everything you

have

in creating this content, speaking to

the scientists, have you opened up any

of your own telepathic or intuitive

abilities?

>> It's so not my focus right now and I

feel like that it needs to be that way.

You know what I mean? Like like I have

to stay fully tethered in the material

world and want to be so that

um I can I don't know. I feel I feel

like that will be a fun thing to do in

10 years like when I'm more retired.

>> But you do open up a bit about some of

your personal life in the you know kind

of between seasons one and two. So I

think that's also an important part of

the story that you are also open to

saying

>> if we broaden the lens of what we

believe is possible,

>> it doesn't have to be something that we

can't question personally.

>> Right.

>> And I'm questioning all of it

personally. The thing that I'm like I

think it could be one choice right now

to be like I because I think if you

really want to get good at some of this

stuff, you have to spend a lot of time

doing it. And um and I think that I'm

more open to things. So things are that

I might have discounted before are are

happening.

>> Okay. I'm going to ask you something. I

have to ask you.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> Have you done psychedelics?

>> Um I have done Yeah. mushrooms.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Have you had any experience with altered

consciousness that you can connect to

the kinds of altered consciousness you

got to study in the telepathy tapes? I

did like this guided mushroom thing with

this shaman who was really good and has

done this many many times and was like

supposed to really, you know, and I went

with some um

uh some friends who are like the most

G-rated grown-ups. They work at Disney,

you know, and you know, like and we did

this thing together and I everyone had

this amazing experience.

>> Oh, no. And I was being told by the

mushrooms the whole time I was not

allowed to experience it.

>> Wow.

>> And I was doing it like for research. It

did feel like because at this point like

I was headlong in the plant episode. I'm

like wait what is going on? Like I must

be experiencing something cuz I

>> at least they're talking to you.

>> Yeah. Cuz I was like I'm full on feeling

like I'm having a conversation with the

mushrooms. So I felt like something is

obviously altered because I felt that.

But then I'd be like why can't I

experience anything? And then the

mushrooms would tell me because if you

we can't even answer that because if we

answered it you'd be experiencing it.

And I'm like what? We're doing a huge

episode on energy healing in the next

season and it was some of the best

energy healers ever I think and and um

I'm sure we're missing a ton but some

great ones. This one energy

>> pretty good

>> really.

Okay. So this one energy healer I met

she's like I it's stronger for me if I

could do it remotely. And I was like,

"Really?" And she goes, "Yeah, in fact,

that's the only time I can remote view.

I will go to heal someone, and I can

tell them what the room looks like,

where they're sitting, what they're

wearing, all the things about what it

is, but I can only do it when I'm

entering their space to heal them."

>> And she's like, "And I have people come

into my office all the time, but it's

not as like succinct and perfect as when

they're far away." I'm like, "Ah,

because I know I have this big problem

going on my left knee." So, I was like,

"Can you energy heal me?" And she's

like, "Yes, it works better outside. go

find your go be outside. After 40

minutes, she's like, "I can't find you."

Like, "What do you mean you can't find

me?" She's like, "It's like there's a

bubble around you or block."

>> I'm like, "What?" I'm like, "Well, this

sucks." And so I was like, we like, "Go

inside." And I'm like, "Can you find me

now?" Like, you know,

>> how about now?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then all of a sudden,

she starts saying, "Okay, I am getting

something." And she starts rattling all

this stuff. And I'm like, "None of this

is true to me." My wife walks in the

room. This is so weird. and she's been

having this like penetrating pain in her

collar bone that's like awful. And she

tore her ACL or something in her knee

like five years ago, but the energy

healer starts talking about like this

penetrating thing in the collar bone and

how bad it is and how I have to get it

looked at and how there's something in

my in the knee. She wasn't reading me.

She was reading Kaisa and I was like,

"What?" So, it's like I And then I'm

like, "Did and I don't know. I mean, I I

was like, "Is this did the non-speakers

put some bubble around me or something?"

I don't know what's What do you think?

Why do you know what you What do you

know?

>> Well, I mean, I I don't know. I think I

mean, do you want me to do this?

>> I want to know.

>> I think there's I think there's a couple

things going on. And what I think is

that the

the energy around the work that you have

done is enormous. It's enormous. And you

became famous and infamous, right? in a

way that I don't think anyone could have

guessed predicted, you know, or

projected. And the reason that

it is so important for you to stay

grounded is what many scientists in this

arena have discovered, which is that if

you dip into belief,

it can adulterate

the research you're doing. And even

though as you said you're documenting

others research,

there has to be a part of you that knows

how important it is to preserve the

sanctity of objectivity.

So while I commend you for trying to go

there as an experiment,

yeah, I believe that there's a larger

wisdom for your path that in some way is

not going to allow you to let go that

way because it will give you a

completely different lens that is not as

objective. Yeah.

>> So it's not your path now, right?

>> And one day it may be,

>> but right now I think that's really

powerful. You know, you may have had the

most powerful experience of all

>> even though it didn't feel like what you

thought it would be, which I would say

is the description of everyone's life,

>> right?

>> Yeah. Ah, such cuz I've like known that

inherently like I'm not allowed to like

when I first started answering I'm like

not allowed to. I can't. Yeah.

>> And I don't know why but you just put

words to it. Yeah. But it was really

funny like coming out of the tent in

Topanga Cannon when all my friends are

like I think the trees are breathing and

the wolves and I'm like

>> are you guys kidding me right now?

>> And you're like the mushrooms won't talk

to me.

>> Yeah. I went to bed. I was like all

right well thank you.

>> That's amazing. That's an amazing story.

>> Your Hungarian roots coming out also

right now.

>> No, that was like such a beautiful

explanation. Well, to me there's not but

to me it's not even that there's

anything magical about it unless I mean

unless you believe that the human

experience is magical which I think it

is. It's divine in its own wisdom. So

it's not like I believe that there's

some like overlord running the

simulation who's like I'm going to

decide but what you are putting out

right

>> is it permeates you you know.

>> Yeah that's so interesting.

>> Yeah. or it would just take a much

higher dose literally to allow you to

leave without any

>> the guy the shaman when when he came by

and he's like he's like I'm like it's

not working and and he's like

>> but I gave you a hero's dose like he's

like there are so many this is like

>> well there are people also who don't who

don't metabolize right the same way Paul

Stamut's talked about this with us

>> yeah but I like I've done micro doses

before where I'm like I'm this is great

you know this just feels like

>> I agree with everything said and also

when you do something like that your

energy field gets dispersed. It's not

the same as when you go there through a

meditation practice which is a much more

integrated experience. And so especially

being out there

>> ruffling some people's feathers and

getting a lot of energy at you, the

likelihood is for your own safety, it's

better to stay contained and grounded

than to open yourself up at all.

>> Yeah. And you can't put the genie back

in the bottle. Like now, you know,

you're,

>> you know, your your journey is now this

larger collective journey and it's very

special and we're so so honored that we

get to um to talk to you and be, you

know, a small part um of your journey

and we have so many so many friends of

our podcast who um you know have wanted

us to connect and we're just so

grateful. So where can people tune in to

season two? All right. So, season 2 will

start October 15th wherever you listen

to your podcasts, Spotify, Apple,

iHeart, YouTube, Amazon, wherever it is.

Uh, Art 19. Uh, we're there. Uh, and the

film will be out early next year.

>> Amazing. Amazing. Thank you so much for

being here. I got nothing else to say

from our breakdown to the one we hope

you never have. We'll see you next time.

>> It's

breakown. She's going to break it down

for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or

two fiction.

>> And now she's going to break down. It's

a breakdown. She's going to break it

down.