Bryan Cranston & Rhea Seehorn | Actors on Actors

You mean you'd rather be in academia than show business? What a loser.

No, when I left they probably were like, "That show's not going to go. She's a

fucking loser."

She's a lunatic. The next episode came a few days later and I'm reading it and I go, "Oh, I did do it."

[laughter] Oops, my bad.

Oh, hey Bryan Cranston.

Hi Riki Lindhome.

How are you?

I'm good. I'm good. We're both promoting my stuff and everything, but I was so happy they brought me here so I get to ask you some questions that I actually really want to ask you.

Well, that's why I wanted to be here, too.

Okay, good.

Cuz we know each other, but in truth we don't know each other.

Right.

Right.

Do you mean Biblically?

Biblically. We don't know each other that way for sure. We want to be clear about that.

Very clear.

Both happily married.

Yes.

How long have you been married?

My wife's awesome. Uh

[laughter] we've been engaged for 11 years and together for 13.

not quite sure [snorts] if it's going to happen. You're not sure.

happen. You're not sure.

just working it out. No,

I No, it's literally the planning gives me hives. [laughter]

me hives. [laughter] It just You've been together for 11 and a half together for 13 and engaged for like 11 and a half.

I find [laughter] that funny.

It is funny.

It is funny. So what's what's holding that up? What's the It's like, "Do we really need to do this? Do we

need a paper?"

do. He's been married before so he doesn't need a big wedding. I I would just like a small celebration though like with friends, but I [laughter] We're going to do it right here.

Graham's going to come out.

to invite everyone that means something to me and that includes like a lot of people I've worked with.

Especially Vince Gilligan.

And mostly just Vince Gilligan is the problem. I'm just waiting on his

the problem. I'm just waiting on his schedule. It's all that I'm waiting on.

schedule. It's all that I'm waiting on.

When did you guys get married?

Good segue.

Thank you.

Yeah. Robin and I have been married for 37 years soon in the summer.

Congrats.

Yeah, it's good.

That's awesome.

It's great. She's a lovely person. She's

Marry up.

Yeah.

That's She's She's one of the loveliest human beings I know.

Very emotionally driven. So, I mean, but that tying into this is that without a supportive partner, how could we do what we do?

Impossible.

It's impossible, isn't it?

I mean, I know people do, obviously they must, but but yeah, it's it's everything to me. I mean, like my step-sons,

to me. I mean, like my step-sons, Graham, my partner, my friend group, Mary Alice, the boys' biological mother, like all of these people make it possible for me to do what I love and

still have a family, still have some home base.

Yeah.

And which is amazing cuz otherwise I feel like at some point I'm just drawing art from art. Like I don't have a life to also observe and draw from, you know?

Yeah.

And you have Taylor in the business now.

She's brilliant on the pet.

Yeah.

And she was just starting high school when Breaking Bad got its order to start our show. And so it was it was an

our show. And so it was it was an interesting conversation because when I first read the pilot of Breaking Bad, I knew that it was special.

And I also knew that it shot in New Mexico.

Right.

We live in Southern California. So, I

thought "Oh man."

So, I gave it to Robin to read and I said, "Just so you know, this was offered to me and it shoots in New Mexico."

There you go. And [laughter] she start [snorts] with with a cynicism behind her like, "I'm not going to like this." And she's

and I'm watching her read it.

And she's going through and what I keep peeking around the corner to see her and cuz she gets down to the last page, she closes it, throws it on the end of the bed and

goes "Shit."

goes "Shit." Because she knew it was great and I had to do it. But it required me to be in New Mexico away from the family

for 6 years. And so,

I would fly home Friday nights, sometimes not Friday nights, Saturday morning sometimes, spend one night, come back Sunday, and start again. So,

luckily, it is an easy flight Albuquerque to Los Angeles. Like, you

know, I I I thought of those years like, "Wow, if I I as many friends like if you're lucky enough to have a series regular on a show, but if if it had been Atlanta, I couldn't get home as much as

I did, you know? Um or London or you know, whatever." But um

know, whatever." But um But yeah, you have to you have to make it work. And then

it work. And then when I got Llorabus, I did sit down with the family and say like, "Now we know now we know what this is when, you know, they call me their bonus mom or their

second mom or like when I'm away for these periods of time." And the boys were great about it. And the thing is it's like, same thing. Like, I know the brilliance

same thing. Like, I know the brilliance of Vince's writing and the and the stable of writers that he hires with him, but also the environment that you know very well that he gives you to, you know, push yourself, challenge

yourself, get better. You're surrounded

by the best in all of their crafts and all of that. But I just wanted them to feel uh it was all fake, but I wanted them to feel like they had to say.

[laughter] No, I just was like, "How do you guys feel about this?" Cuz it was a longer shoot.

We will figure out what makes you different.

Figure it out why.

So we can fix it.

So you can join us.

How long do you shoot uh Llorabus?

We shoot I don't I don't know if we're allowed to say. I

Have they said?

You're not allowed to say?

I say you're allowed to say. And but and we'll cut it if it you're not allowed to say.

Okay. We will cut it if we're not allowed to say. Okay. We

uh we shoot for 10 to 11 months.

Phew. Yeah.

How many days per episode do you have then?

Uh it it it um it varied. We should We should skip this. See, it's going to I I do want that cut.

No.

I do. It just makes Vince stand like he's People don't understand that.

Every single show or movie that I have ever done that was great was the hardest thing to do.

Yeah.

It's so hard because the showrunners or the the writer directors good enough is just not good enough.

Yeah.

And let's do it again. Let's do it again. Let's improve it. You know, just

again. Let's improve it. You know, just 2% we can make it a little better, little better, little better. Oh, we're

running out of time.

Yeah. Yeah.

And you get down to the wire and you you keep trying to stretch it and keep trying to do so much. And Pluribus is like that, too, because Vince Gilligan runs that show and I know him so well.

Every frame is a painting. Every

composition. Yes. And the And the attention to performance, which I appreciate. Like just fine-tuning and

appreciate. Like just fine-tuning and modulating performances where you really get to try it, you know, myriad ways and um and experiment. But there is I wanted to

and experiment. But there is I wanted to ask you because uh quite a few actors that um that work a lot that are our our peers that I've spoken to, they're very mesmerized by the fact that we only get

our scripts one at a time on his shows.

And you don't generally even get told an outline of what the whole season will be.

Right.

And a lot of people are like, how How are you doing that? Like, so you have no idea like what the character's going to do. And I will say it was a new way to work. Was it for you? Cuz I'm

assuming it was the same on Breaking Bad.

It was the same on Breaking Bad, but the characters, and like your character of Carol, you're going through so many twists and turns that are hard to fathom. Can't You can't possibly plan

fathom. Can't You can't possibly plan ahead.

Yes.

And I just thought, "No, this is kind of good for Walter White just to to step into what's next for him because it was such foreign territory just like it is for you."

Yeah, for Carol Sturken Plourde, and then even for Kim Wexler and Better Call Saul. I have to say there was a lot of

Saul. I have to say there was a lot of freedom in a new set of like techniques and different things to try. I mean, we try not to pre-plan or like be result-oriented anyway, but people would ask me like, "But don't you want to know

like if you're lying? Or don't you want to know if you're going to find out three episodes later that actually you do want that job or whatever. And

there's such rich and complex life happening in just one episode you have that I'm like, "My RAM space is full." Like I'm just doing

like you know, I I I actually found quite a bit of freedom in it. That That

being said, we've all been in positions or know people that have been in positions where they're worried if what's been promised to them that the character is going to end up having anything to do is actually

going to materialize, but I trust Vince Gilligan and all of his writers. So

Yeah, you just go. And I get surprised by scripts. I'm like, "Wait." But it

by scripts. I'm like, "Wait." But it never feels like shock value.

It always makes sense. Like, "Okay. All

right." So I I don't know.

I remember shooting an episode of Breaking Bad where Aaron Paul's character Jesse comes at me with a gun because he thinks I poisoned the little boy in the show. And

Right. Right.

I'm going, "Why would I do that? Why

would I do that?" And I point this the finger in the direction of Giancarlo Esposito's character. Yeah. Gus Fring,

Esposito's character. Yeah. Gus Fring,

he's the one who would stand to gain by this. And this is, you know, and so you

this. And this is, you know, and so you want You think I did it? Then kill me.

Then shoot me right now if you think I did it.

Yeah.

And then the next The next episode came a few days later, and I'm reading it.

And I go, "Oh, I did do it."

[laughter] Oops.

My bad.

I I didn't realize that I did poison the kid until I read it. So

But it's interesting that you wouldn't have changed how you did that scene, right?

No, cuz he has to be believable.

But maybe maybe I really thought that it was Gus Fring that did it, but it wasn't.

People mistakenly, I think, or erroneously think that Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould, who was co-showrunner, and then showrunner by himself on on Better Call Saul, they're doing it to manipulate us. They're doing it to

manipulate us. They're doing it to withhold information and get you to do it. It's not It's not that. And they

it. It's not It's not that. And they

also like the room to plant a lot of seeds and see which things are blooming. And

Vince he said, "Oh yeah, we love to paint ourselves into a corner and then freak out trying to figure out how to get out."

get out." Every season Every season of every show he's done does that. Your show,

your other show, Yeah.

Breaking Bad, it's always I don't see how he's going to get out of this.

Yep.

Even episode by episode is like, "Ooh."

Which makes the viewer want to to see more.

And then what I found interesting about watching Pluralis was that you take the tropes of every science fiction alien invasion story you've ever heard and

it's completely the opposite.

Yes.

Like they're always ugly.

Right.

They want to kill you. They never reveal themselves truthfully.

Right. You're sure you don't want to be them?

You're sure you don't want to be them.

They are invincible. They cannot be killed. They cannot be uh damn And

killed. They cannot be uh damn And everything you go down the list and he flipped [laughter] it upside down. So it's fascinating watching Pluralis and going, Thanks.

I don't know where this is going. It's

so It's so And where the comedy comes from. Real

real wily tone within the scenes that we had laughs doing.

It is.

tone sometimes.

[laughter] Uh yeah, we had a lot All right.

Warm up my plane. I'm going home.

Good riddance.

I just watched uh four new Malcolm in the Middle. Um it's hilarious. It's so

the Middle. Um it's hilarious. It's so

fun. I got to work with um Jane once, too. Jane Kaczmarek. She played

too. Jane Kaczmarek. She played

Whitney's mom on the sitcom Whitney.

She's so great. But it's so funny and all this physical comedy that you got to do. But I just saw you also in the

do. But I just saw you also in the studio, so clearly you're gifted physical comedian.

Well, I find that coming up when you were doing a dramatic role, like I'm sure right now they're going, "Ooh, let's give her some more dramatic roles." And you're going, "Hang on. Let

roles." And you're going, "Hang on. Let

me Let me pivot a little bit and, you know, do some more comedy."

Right.

I think it's really up to the actor if they get fortunate, as we have, to be able to guide your own career.

And prior to that, like I I hats off to the casting directors that helped me fight those pigeonholes cuz I was came from theater and I was doing drama and comedy, then came out here with a sitcom. So then I was not just a comedy

sitcom. So then I was not just a comedy actor, but a sitcom actor. That's it.

And then you do Better Call Saul, and I remember going in and and Sharon Bialy from Bialy Thomas apologizing to me that there was somebody that wanted to see me for a comedy, but they weren't sure if I could do comedy and I needed to come in and read. I was

and read. I was like "What?"

like "What?" Um That's so true. It's the same thing going from Malcolm in the Middle to Breaking Bad. There was only 1 year in

Breaking Bad. There was only 1 year in between. And Vince Gilligan was my

between. And Vince Gilligan was my champion to get that role. He

But coming from X-Files, that's where he met you, right?

Yeah, X-Files 10 years before.

Yeah, wow.

And now Malcolm in the Middle finishes seven seasons and now I was available and I knew I wanted to do a drama and

he was there and he said, "He's the guy." And the execs at Sony and at AMC

guy." And the execs at Sony and at AMC were like, "Ooh, wait, no. The silly The goofy dad from Malcolm not to play Walter White. No, no, no, no. Come on.

Walter White. No, no, no, no. Come on.

We can listen." He's going, "Trust me.

Trust me. Trust me." And without his championing me, Yeah. I wouldn't be sitting here now

Yeah. I wouldn't be sitting here now talking to you.

Yeah. Same.

It really is that that way. [snorts]

Yeah.

Yeah.

In your book, I loved your autobiography. It was great. I tell

autobiography. It was great. I tell

everybody to read it. I'm like, you don't even have to be in this business.

The the work ethic, the perseverance, the sort of um macro look at life while having an artistic endeavor that you want to like feed that to, but you still have to make a whole life. The whole book is just

very, I think it's a great guide Oh.

in the world.

Oh, thank you.

But you at one point talk about your Malcolm in the in the middle auditions and that there was very little information about the character. And so

you thought about it and I do this, our mutual friend Bob Odenkirk, he'll sometimes wonder like how far I'm getting away from organic instincts if I am so interested in what the cog in the wheel of the storytelling is.

Mhm.

Which I'm not sure why he's giving me shit about that because he'll never take his writer's hat off either, but at anyway, I'm not a writer, but I remember you saying in your book that you thought well

the best storytelling here would be that he's the things the wife is not.

Yeah.

So that's how you started to make a list of like how what am I going to hang this character on, you know, the architecture of that and it's like not competent, not capable.

Exactly. [laughter]

I wrote down everything that the character, Jane Kaczmarek's character of Lois, and all the things she was strong, powerful, fearless, intimidated others,

a sergeant of arms, disciplinarian, you know, all these things and I just wrote the opposite of everything [laughter] she was and I realized, oh, I'm creating a list of characteristics of what became Hal.

Yeah.

Cuz I really didn't know what to do. I

had five lines in the Malcolm pilot. The

only thing I knew cuz he was constantly reading the paper, he's, Mhm.

you know, and I realized I had to make the distinction between disinterest, which would never play, Sure.

and distraction.

So I played distraction.

Mhm.

But he was not disinterested in his family, you know. So that was the thing I was trying to thread the needle on.

Yeah.

These things have lasted for 6 months.

You know, I can call back later.

Come on, Dewey. You've seen this like a thousand times. It's just a normal human

thousand times. It's just a normal human body doing normal human behavior.

Undergrowth.

With Ken Wecksler, I had one and a half lines for the pilot.

Oh yeah, you were right.

something like we got it, Brenda. I

can't remember what that one was. But

then in the parking garage, he and I share a line with the cigarette. He

says, "Couldn't you just?" And I say, "You know I can't."

He And it said, he takes a cigarette out of my mouth, takes takes a puff, puts it back in my mouth.

It didn't say that I flinched, but it didn't say that I didn't. But I was like, let's just go

didn't. But I was like, let's just go with what's there because as you know, the scripts are written beautifully.

There's a point of view even in the action lines. Um

action lines. Um Yeah.

And then it said she walks away and writes the trash can that he has kicked in without looking. So we know he's done it more than once. And we also know that she cleans up his messes without even thinking.

Right.

But I was like, but she has boundaries.

And we know there's an intimacy because of There's an intimacy Yeah, it was all all there.

And when he says, "Couldn't you just?"

He means like, "Help me out upstairs."

And I say, "You know I can't." Which I was like, so they've had this conversation before, but there seems to be a distinct boundary that's about don't fuck with my work.

Yeah.

I or my business. Don't bring this into my work.

No. And so I was like, "Huh."

And then I also had like very few contractions later in other episodes where other people have don't. I had do not a lot of times. I was like,

times. I was like, I could ask to elide that, but let me see what's there.

[laughter] Good one. Um

Good one. Um but I just mean to a great extent what you're talking about, too. The economy of what was

about, too. The economy of what was there also had answers that I found very interesting um to create a character out of that. Including wasn't

of that. Including wasn't distraction versus um disinterest but I was often in scenes and I was like doesn't say exit but I'm not talking.

Who is this person and I was like well not speaking can be a position of weakness but it can also be a great position of power to just let people hang themselves in a room and so that's where I started working with that not a skill that I have.

No No no no There's no silence in your world?

I like silence but I can't stop trying to I I fill the No yes as I'm doing well you just did.

[laughter] You wouldn't even let me look for it. No

but it's also like if if I think somebody's being left out of a conversation That's nice though that's just kindness.

Uh it's but that's also an ego I had a therapist explain to me.

Oh that Yeah why can't you let this person be in their discomfort? Maybe they maybe

their discomfort? Maybe they maybe they're fine.

Yeah.

You're uncomfortable with them being quiet.

Yes.

So I don't know.

Carol she can show levels of kindness Mhm.

but she's she's really uptight and really angry at least that's the way it's coming across as a foundational emotion. How do you play that? How how

emotion. How do you play that? How how

do you I mean I know that she's freaked out about what's just happened and so as a as just a viewer and I've always every time I got together with Vince I would say don't tell me don't

tell me anything don't tell me anything I want to see it cold I want to see Oh about Plaribus?

about Plaribus and so I just like any fan watched it cold and and I go I don't know that I would

be generous and kind and soft and I would be freaked out and and I mean your whole world is upside down but there seems to be some chatter about people

saying oh she's the angriest person on the planet and it's like I I Vince said what if the most miserable person on Earth had to save the world from happiness?" And we had a couple

from happiness?" And we had a couple people say like, "Is she the most I don't think she's the most miserable."

And he said, "Relatively speaking in this new world, yes. There's very few people with any misery. Certainly the

brilliant Carlos Mencia's portrayal of Manuela is pretty angry."

Yeah.

But, Vince has said this on panels.

Nobody asked that about Walter White.

Nobody asked that about, you know, Jimmy McGill of like, "What's up with them being so unlikable?" They were behaving in an honest way to the situation they were in.

it's a gender issue?

We don't know. Just I'm just referring to the part you didn't, but I'm referring to the part when people are like, "She's so unlikable." And I'm like, "Her wife's dead. [laughter]

They killed her."

Yeah.

The most important person to her. And

also, obviously an a buffer to the entire world for her for this misanthrope.

Uh career's done. Might not ever be back. You may very well die alone and

back. You may very well die alone and never speak to anybody again on a couch eating a frozen meal watching Golden Girls. There are no friends anymore.

Girls. There are no friends anymore.

There are no There's no family. And the

world is saying, "We're just waiting around till we can take your brain away." And

away." And she's not polite about it.

On the other hand, that Bea Arthur is funny.

She [laughter] She is funny. Um

She is. But so, yeah, my way into it was just the beginning conversations with Vince of him saying, you know, "In this very fantastical circumstance, I want

her to be utterly realistic, completely honest. Like, if this really happened to

honest. Like, if this really happened to you or I you know, when you start getting into that actress as if stuff.

It's like, clearly this has never happened to me.

But, it's those questions we try to ask ourselves like, I don't know. If if you know, if there was a car wreck on the side of the road, like, do do

Do you jump out right away? Like, um and then you add to it the incredible obstacle of massive grief. We talked

about the fact that like, even getting up off the floor the next morning is a heroic Yeah.

measure. Most of us would drink a hell of a lot and just lay there.

I I view Carol Carol's anger as a manifestation of her fear.

That's fair.

And apprehension and trepidation about her world has collapsed.

And it's armor, terror, all of it.

And I'm am I next and what and she's got to fight. So, I never took it as she's

to fight. So, I never took it as she's an angry person.

Yeah, I didn't think you did, but when you said to her it has come up. Yeah,

yeah yeah.

No.

And also when something happens where everybody starts being nice to you and saying yes to you and being afraid of like what do they really want? And I

think Carol's in a position like she can't take it at face value anybody's act of niceness, any gesture of niceness. Everything is like what do you

niceness. Everything is like what do you want? What do you want? What do you

want? What do you want? What do you want?

Yeah.

I just tried to be honest in those things which was really fun in that it's also how we found the comedy. Any of the comedy stuff that was not on the page, you know, shooing the kids away, trying to

talk to the television, like was just we're very weird weird little animals when left alone.

Yeah.

And Yeah, we are.

to film that. And so that's often where the comedy came from. And then Carolina Wydra, my just amazing co-star playing such a deceptively difficult role.

Yes.

No actor tools at your disposal. Can't

mimic the emotion. Can't like listen and respond. All of this stuff, but um

respond. All of this stuff, but um She's great.

She's great, but we knew instinctively there is something comedic going on with this almost like Laurel and Hardy.

There's Yeah.

man and like I'm just a whirling dervish. And no matter how justified

dervish. And no matter how justified Carol is in her anger, she looks like a toddler having a fit next to a bunch of people that are just like, "Okay, we hear you. Do you want to calm down?"

hear you. Do you want to calm down?"

[laughter] How can we help you, Carol?

Yes.

Yeah, it's like, "Oh my god."

That's good stuff.

Carol, once you understand how wonderful this is.

Carol, You're going into the second season.

We Yes, we are. They're in the writers' room right now.

In the writers' room. And do you have any idea of where it's going?

No.

None. I don't even know what she does with that and bomb in the driveway.

I don't even know that if it's in there.

I think it is because he doesn't really like to be a tease.

Yeah.

Like, I don't think he would lie to the fans.

No, it's it's there.

I don't I don't know. I don't know.

I mean, she's come back and asked Manuso's if he would help, but that's a tricky relationship. He just wants to

tricky relationship. He just wants to kill everybody. I don't think she wants

kill everybody. I don't think she wants to go gun everybody down, so I don't know what her plan is. I'd like to think that if she told Diabate who's Thomas Schnauz is so amazing. I

lucked out with the cast as all of Vincent's cast have been great. Um

I would like to think that when he finds out that they plan on deceptively trying to figure out how to change you whether you like it or not that he might help, but I don't know. He's having a really good time with those women. I don't know if he's going to come help me [laughter] out.

Oh, I think he's in heaven. He's He

doesn't want to change.

Yeah.

But there was an interesting turn for your character, too, in the middle where she realized I'm lonely.

Yeah.

I I'm Please come back.

Yeah. I needed a lot of help with that one because when you're filming it, the time passage happening off screen was something Vince really needed to like

kind of poke at me and make sure I layered in there and then to more and more of an extreme this this 40 days of isolation and how much he wanted that to affect her almost as though she had been

in isolation, you know.

I mean, like like with nothing, you know. But I was like, she could watch TV. She could walk around.

Right.

But it's the larger existential thought of this may never end. If you don't decide to at least live semi-delusionally Right.

you are just going to die alone and you're never speaking to anybody again.

Yeah.

Just you're just going to sit here and wait till you turn to ash.

And watch every episode of Golden Girls.

60 times.

Yes.

Many times over.

Right.

Yeah.

Right. Yeah, so

Does it hold up?

It does. It does. We had a good time laughing.

[laughter] We did.

So We did.

Wait, can you tell me why I don't get to see all my sons here?

Oh.

You just did it.

did that play.

I did. I played Anne at play Anne.

the Arena Stage 5,000 years ago.

Nice.

But you just did it in London.

Yeah.

For 4 months in London.

come here? Am I allowed to ask?

Um you know, we're discussing it.

Okay.

It's a possibility.

But it's it's you know, there's all kinds of financial considerations. Not

for me, cuz I actually lose money when I do the theater.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I'm There's

There's just So, it's the same as when I left it.

It's It's [laughter] the same. That's

the same. It's just how how exhausted you get. And as you know,

you get. And as you know, Yeah.

I I think doing theater is far more exhausting than doing television and film.

Always?

Well, for what the roles that I select, I I'm only I'm only attracted to very damaged characters. I

characters. I I really it's like, "Ah, he's too nice. He's too sweet. I

don't I'm not interested in that."

I want to see the gut punch. I want to see where How is sweet?

I know. And that's why I wanted to go back.

of obstacles.

Yes. Oh, he and he puts all of them in the front of the play.

but like severe obstacle list.

[laughter] Well, the fear of everything.

Yeah.

Yeah, spiders, heights, someone's presence. Um

someone's presence. Um Planning. Planning. Everything. Planning

Planning. Planning. Everything. Planning

seems to be a big one.

And he's got ADHD. He's got all kinds of problems. Um but he's sweet. Yeah.

Your biggest problem is that we exist?

[laughter] But you're saying that still is not as exhausting as like eight shows a week theater?

Yeah, I well I don't do eight shows a week anymore. I can't do that. I got to

week anymore. I can't do that. I got to have those connecting days off.

Okay.

So I want it to be a standard when doing the West End or or Broadway Okay.

is to do seven shows a week with two days off.

Oh nice. Oh yeah, a lot of people are having Sunday and Monday off now, right?

go. You got to do it.

That's smart.

Or Monday, Tuesday.

In theater once I did return to a play that we had done it was called The Big Slam and we returned to the characters, but it was only I would say like two years later. So I am curious what it was

years later. So I am curious what it was like returning to Malcolm in the Middle.

What was the gap 20 years.

20?

20.

We said goodbye 20 years ago and then we said hello again.

Who first was like, let's do more and then you? Okay.

then you? Okay.

I I thought maybe 12, 13 years ago, I approached Linwood Boomer who created the show Mhm.

and I said, "It's kind of interesting that coming up would be our 10-year anniversary since we said goodbye.

Wouldn't it be interesting to do a, you know, reunion movie or something? What

happened to Malcolm? What happened?" And

and when we left the series, Hal and Lois were pregnant again.

Mhm.

So I was like, "It would be kind of curious did did they finally get the girl they wanted or whatever?" And he goes, "Nah. Nah, I don't want to do it.

goes, "Nah. Nah, I don't want to do it.

I don't want to do it. No, no, no, no."

And so okay. I'm I secretly met with secretly with his wife, Tracy Katsky, and Gail Berman, our executive producer, at a at a restaurant in West West LA and

we kind of plotted Why not?

of how to start chipping away at him.

Did you go to like Jane or other cast members to also and Frankie to say like, "Hey, let's do that. Let's ambush him?"

No, I I No, I cuz I think he would he he's very smart. He would have been wise to that. So we kind of

to that. So we kind of had an idea and I kept saying, "Well, I started it I'll just keep chipping away and like a year and a half later, he said, "I don't think so. I I don't think so. There you

think so. I I don't think so. There you

know, it would have to be a great idea that comes up and and I took that as a as a progress cuz the first time he said, "Absolutely not."

not." door ajar.

And now, "I don't think so." Ooh, so you're saying there's a chance.

Yep.

Um It would have to be a great idea is definitely an invitation.

think it was think it was that character the and those people that I was with for seven and a half eight years including the pilot to say, "All right, we had a

great time.

It was a family and and we really cared for each other. We loved to see each other. Loved to work together again. Why not?"

again. Why not?"

Yeah.

So, when it finally came about, we shot it and it was amazing.

And you got everybody back, right?

Everybody except Eric Per Sullivan who played Little Louie, the littlest boy.

Oh, okay.

When I told him we were doing it, he Oh, great. I go, "So, you're interested? You

great. I go, "So, you're interested? You

want to do it?" "Oh, no." Oh, [laughter] really? Yeah.

really? Yeah.

He's get He's getting a master's at at Harvard, you know. Like, yeah.

Whatever.

So, you mean you'd rather be in academia than show business? What a loser.

[laughter] Go have a career.

No, he was he was very excited but no, he because when he left, he was a child actor. And now he's a full-grown adult

actor. And now he's a full-grown adult in his 30s studying literature.

Okay.

You know, and he's like, "No, that's it's that's his life now."

Yeah.

So, he said, "No, I really I really have no desire to do it."

Anyway, but it was amazing at our table read how everybody like put your feet in Just click right back into slippers that were comfortable. It was

like, "There it is." Yeah, it was really fun.

The actual anniversary day is mine. Do

you promise?

Under duress, I'll promise anything when you do that thing.

Obviously, I still see these characters these characters I to know and love and like it's like oh, it feels like wonderful that they're they're back in your lives. But everybody had a little

your lives. But everybody had a little bit of evolving as well.

Hal, not a lot.

I'm just kidding.

[laughter and clears throat] No, but like do you do you know what I mean? Like there did was there a big

mean? Like there did was there a big discussion about like well, what's different about this relationship or this relationship?

I think I think what was great about Hal and Lois is that they didn't change.

They just got older.

Yeah.

But he's still madly in love with her.

I know it.

And that was a wonderful little thing to play because usually at the time when the original series aired it was it was a period of time when there was the the

husband who was always making the the wisecracks and the wife who was like Yeah.

Yeah.

you know, to him.

And we played it where we were crazy about each other and in a way needed each other to function Yeah.

in any way manageable. That's what we looked for.

that part.

Kids were enough to handle. And it was so we we made sure that we siloed our relationship that was separate from the relationship we had with the kids so that you can play at two different kind

of beats.

Yeah. And I loved the young woman that you got to play uh the now the new daughter who prefers they.

They, yeah. Non-binary, yeah. Their name

is Van. Wonderful actor. And the cast we have is so great. It was so much fun to get involved and do it again.

Were the sets different or did they have to rebuild the house? I was trying the house.

And it's done to replicate the first one cuz I didn't go back and compare. I was

like is that the same house?

Yeah. It's the same house.

But for some reason there were no blueprints of the original house.

Really?

So, yeah. So, they had to you know, how they rebuilt it Just watch.

is by watching the episodes. Freeze

frame, take a picture, freeze frame, take a picture of that angle as people walk through one room or another Wow. put all the pieces together and

Wow. put all the pieces together and then they redesign the house from that.

It was amazing.

Do you want to do Marvel?

I don't know.

I don't I don't like to do anything as a stepping stone to something else. I like

to do it. This is the reason. I used to chastise young actors who would say, "I did a play and I you know, I didn't get an agent or a job

out of it. I didn't get the it's like that's not why you're supposed to do the play." Yes. You do the play to tell that

play." Yes. You do the play to tell that story and to be able to act. Just do

that. If you're doing something with an expectation of something else, you know, that you're going to just set yourself up for disappointment. So, everything I

try to do is like right here right now.

It helps me stay present to it. Like

this is it.

And I finished the play in London and that's it. And if I we do it again, then it'll be a brand new experience. We'll start with that

new experience. We'll start with that conversation but Do you have particular techniques like like you're Meisner or you're the like do you is it a grab bag or what what how are you approaching

your work? And is it different now than

your work? And is it different now than it used to be?

It's a grab bag because I've I've gone to about eight different acting teachers and stayed with them for a couple years and being able to pull from each one cuz I

don't think it is not a one-size-fits-all. I bet

there are some things that that I do that might work for you. There's some

things that you do that might work for me and oh, that's interesting. I think

I'll try that. But it's it's not so rigid. It's not and and whenever I got

rigid. It's not and and whenever I got into a acting class and the act and the [clears throat] acting coach or the teacher said, "This is the way you play that scene." It was

like warning flag, you know, it's like I I can There's a couple ways you can play that scene.

This is the only way to get the truth of this. I'm just kind of like

this. I'm just kind of like I try very hard to go to set before my first day, if I'm not the first scene, just because I need to make

some adjustments if I see a we're only doing two takes.

That's how fast we're shooting.

Whatever. Do you know what I mean?

Versus like we're doing 26 takes. That

is a different kind of prep for what's a repeatable, how much experimentation am I going to be able to do, or do you need to like come with a solid A game and then one risk cuz that's it.

Like you know, I am the same. I feel like I have to have other things at my disposal because the circumstances are different, whether it's my scene partner or the way I'm shooting.

Exactly right.

Well, there I mean Whatever.

the writing of of any performance art is all theoretical. The writer is there

all theoretical. The writer is there thinking, I think it should look like this. I think the house should be this

this. I think the house should be this way. I think this should be decorated. I

way. I think this should be decorated. I

think I think I think. And you could put it all down and the way it's interpreted by the actor, like Carol's house in Plural of S. It's like you got but without you

S. It's like you got but without you going to visit that set, Yeah.

it's like, oh, wait. That's where the bed is and this is oh, I have to recalibrate in order to figure out because and I do the same thing. I want

to go into that set early so that I can get familiar with it cuz nothing bugs me more that if I saw you walk into Carol's bedroom and look for the light switch, [laughter]

I go, oh, she's never been in that room.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

You got to know where those things are because we don't.

Yep.

You know?

I got to see the set for the Carol's house really early. Like

studs and concrete floor and they let me write on in that cul-de-sac on the back lot we built. They let me write in the wet

built. They let me write in the wet concrete under her foyer that that I was there and the date and that I was so happy. And I mistakenly thought that the crew that's building

that cul-de-sac were probably people that have worked are working on the show or maybe worked on another show or worked on Better Call Saul cuz we use a lot of the same crews.

We have a lot of Breaking Bad people.

But it was not They were a construction crew that was not [laughter] not whatever. I have no idea. Not even

not whatever. I have no idea. Not even

sure they have ever seen or heard of anything I've ever done.

And that's fine except that I was running up to that I started crying cuz I had gone out to see the sets and and Vince was doing a scout and walking me around. I just couldn't believe they

around. I just couldn't believe they were building a whole cul-de-sac.

you know, it was my first lead part, too. And I was like, what? And so I'm

too. And I was like, what? And so I'm just crying and I'm running around and I was like, which one's Carol's house? And

they're like, that one's Carol's house.

I'm running up and the guys are you know, they're framing and taping and drywalling. And I was like, guys, this

drywalling. And I was like, guys, this one's Carol's house? And they're like, Uh yes.

Yes. And I was like, I'm Carol.

Great. And you not be here.

Yeah. And then

could could not stop myself. I was just like, no, you don't get it. You don't

get it. And I was like, I'd better call Saul cuz this is the show but I was like, this is my first lead and blah blah blah and blah blah blah. And I by the end they were all like high-fiving me. Now, when I left, they probably were

me. Now, when I left, they probably were like, that show is not going to go.

She's a fucking lunatic. [laughter]

She's a lunatic.

You are traitors TO THE HUMAN RACE.

I'm very excited for season 2 of the studio.

Oh my god. It's a crazy so great. I love all the producers and

so great. I love all the producers and writers on that. I got to sit with them at some award shows. They're all so so great.

Lunatics in the best way.

best possible way.

So, when you went back for season 2, wait, where were you guys shooting?

Venice, Italy. Yeah, as one does.

Right.

Yeah. And we shot two episodes in Venice recreating the Venice Film Festival.

The Venice Film Festival. That's what it was. Did you see any Did you see any

was. Did you see any Did you see any famous people other than the ones people Yeah.

Did you see any gondolas? That's all I wanted to know about.

Oh really?

So, famous people playing famous people in it again, right?

Can you tell us any of those people?

Really?

What was she like?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you you sense a lull or quietness in the room. Someone just entered the room.

the room. Someone just entered the room.

Yeah.

Oh, I guess that's true.

Is she I was going to say does she have a sense of humor?

Wow.

Okay. Are you on drugs again?

Are you?

Yeah.

[laughter] Okay.

Okay.

what happens. Really?

[laughter] And it's And it's your fault.

I I either propelled my career to a different level or completely destroyed it.

[laughter] That's that's the option. It's like

completely obliterated it like what was he thinking? Or oh, did you see that?

he thinking? Or oh, did you see that?

But it will be talked about.

Okay.

There will be memes.

up there with body hair shaving, which you opened Malcolm in the Middle with.

[laughter] My dear, that's very tame.

Really? Okay. All right.

I got to stop these fake cigarettes.

Terrible for you.

Uh okay. I'm I will definitely watch.

when you get asked to do it. I hope you do.

I would love to do it.

Jump in.

Okay.

It's like it's it's like trying trying to get on a moving train [laughter] because it's like fast, right?

We shoot fast, but we shoot like 12, 14, 16 takes, and that's it. There's no

coverage. It's like whip camera, it's here, it's here, it's here.

Okay.

And so and you get and you can you know, add stuff, or write your lines, and but Yeah.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

Oh, fun.

And hard. It's hard.

Comedy's hard.

It's hard. You're you're pounding it and pounding it and it just a little Yeah, the timing of that was just a little off or, you know, whatever.

So, but thank you. That was that was It was great.

great.

wait to see it.

It was fun.

And I love Kathryn Hahn. I I know her a little bit. She's just

little bit. She's just She's a hoot. She's a hoot.

And of course the brilliant Catherine O'Hara.

Oh.

Sad to see you her so much.

Of course. Of course.

I played Catherine O'Hara's husband Did you?

in three different productions.

What were they?

The last one was uh Argyle.

Okay.

The movie Argyle.

I didn't know that.

played husband and wife.

Okay.

And before we played husband and wife in an episode of 30 Rock. And then now she was my nemesis in [laughter] in the studio. I miss her so much. She

was such a a joy to be with.

Catherine O'Hara was a person like you not only marveled at her comedic chops.

Yeah.

But when it's cut, sit down, I want to sit next to Catherine. I want to and she's that way. She was just that way. It's just and just heartbreaking to

way. It's just and just heartbreaking to lose her.

Yeah, I'm sorry about that.

Well, I hope I get to be your scene partner one day.

Cuz we never did it actually be innocent we we the storylines sort of crossed paths. I mean in Better Call Saul.

You know, in a way and you were there when Aaron Paul when I meet Jesse. Do you remember that? And

you leave him a note. You told him to punch the rain.

Do you remember that? It's like the fake rain coming out. And he goes [laughter] I thought it was cool.

It was great.

a cool little moment.

It was really cool. Thank you.

Well, so fun is that shooting Better Call Saul we were kept in complete secrecy.

totally.

We were sequestered. We went to this Airbnb. He had a top floor, had a bottom

Airbnb. He had a top floor, had a bottom and we couldn't leave.

Yeah.

They said, "You can't leave. You can't

go out for a walk. You can't do anything." And it's like, "Oh my god,

anything." And it's like, "Oh my god, this is kind of exciting.

[laughter] It's like we're spies or something." And

they brought food to us and we had to wear shrouds and we we wore these thing big things. Shrouds [laughter] were

big things. Shrouds [laughter] were coming in. Oh, I pitched something for

coming in. Oh, I pitched something for Better Call Saul early on. I said,

"Vince, what if I'm in the I see a man. I'm going into a grocery store. I see a man or pharmacy or

store. I see a man or pharmacy or something and I'm picking up something to do with cooking. It's like some chemical or something.

And and I go And then you could feel the person there.

And he he suggests I forget what it was.

But it's it's meeting Saul.

Yeah.

But because it was much earlier, right?

It was before. I was going to meet him earlier. But to become, you know, when

earlier. But to become, you know, when when Walter White died, I thought, well, that's it. That was great. Good run. But

that's it. That was great. Good run. But

then I did him I came back like three times.

So, you know, who knows?

It does not seem likely.

asked to do Kim Wexler again.

Yeah. Yeah, or I'll come do apparently what's just some grotesque scenes with you on the studio.

[laughter] You have the courage. I know you're the type of actor you you're just I could Whatever it is, I think I could.

Let's go.

If I get to do it with you, I'll do it.

Let's do it.

Okay.

It's so good to talk to you.

see you. Thank you for this. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

[laughter] [music] [music]