"Catastrophic": Iraqi Writers Sinan Antoon & Feurat Alani Reflect on U.S. Invasion 20 Years Later

here on Democracy Now democracynow.org The War and Peace report I'm Amy Goodman in New York joined by democracy Now co-host nermeen Sheikh heiner mean hi Amy and Welcome to

our listeners and viewers across the country and around the world well it was 20 years ago today when the U.S invaded Iraq on the false pretext

U.S invaded Iraq on the false pretext that Iraqi president Saddam Hussein was hiding weapons of mass destruction the attack came despite worldwide protests

and the lack of authorization from the United Nations security Council at around 5 30 a.m local time in Baghdad

March 20th 2003 air raid sirens were heard in Baghdad as the U.S Invasion

began within the hour President George W bush gave a nationally televised speech from the Oval Office announcing the war had begun my fellow citizens

at this hour American and Coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq to free its people and to defend the world

from grave Danger on my orders Coalition forces have begun striking selected Targets on Military importance to undermine Saddam Hussein's

ability to wage war these are opening stages of what will be a broad and concerted campaign I want Americans and all the world to know that

Coalition forces will make every effort experience and civilians from harm we come to Iraq with respect for its citizens for their great civilization

and for the religious faiths they practice we have no ambition in Iraq except to remove a threat and restore control of that country to its own people

and this is how we began our broadcast on Democracy Now 20 years ago today March 20th 2003.

welcome to democracy Now The War and Peace report I'm Amy Goodman just about 9 30 p.m Eastern Standard time last night the U.S military began

an unprovoked attack on Iraq Airaid Sirens sounded throughout Baghdad just before the sun rose anti-aircraft fire filled the sky and explosion shook the city Pentagon officials said over 30

Tomahawk cruise missiles were launched from warships to stealth bombers each dropped two one-ton bombs it's not clear what has been hit or the extent of the

casualties the Iraqi news agency has just reported there are 14 injured and one dead Iraq responded by firing three missiles into Northern Kuwait according

to the U.S military that could not be independently confirmed the attack was not the beginning of the expected mass of what the U.S government calls shock

and awe campaign instead it was a targeted strike on Iraqi president Saddam Hussein it is not yet clear whether the assassination attempt was successful hours before the attack

Center Robert Byrd the oldest voice in the U.S Congress condemned the bush

the U.S Congress condemned the bush administration's War plans the West Virginia Democrats said today I weep for my country no more is the image of America one of strong yet benevolent

Peacekeeper around the globe our friends mistrust us our word is disputed our intentions are questioned Byrd continued we flaunt our superpower status with

arrogance after War has ended the United States will have to rebuild much more than the country of Iraq we will have to rebuild America's image around the globe

around the world international leaders condemned the U.S war top officials from France Russia China India Pakistan Greece Malaysia Indonesia and New Zealand were among the countries

opposing the attack that was an excerpt from our coverage 20 years ago today at the start of the U.S invasion of Iraq

last week the costs of War project estimated over 500 50 000 people have been killed in Iraq and Syria since

2003. some estimates put the death toll

2003. some estimates put the death toll in a rocket over 2 million today the U.S

still has some 2500 troops in Iraq well we'll spend the broadcast today with two Iraqis looking back at how the

unprovoked U.S Invasion devastated their

unprovoked U.S Invasion devastated their country and helped destabilize much of the Middle East for atalani is a French

Iraqi journalist who is based in Baghdad from 2003 to 2008. he travels to Iraq frequently he's made several

documentaries including flavors of Iraq his first novel is just out in French titled in English I remember Fallujah his recent piece for the Washington Post

is headlined the Iraq War helped destroy what it meant to be an Iraqi he's joining us from Paris France and here in New York

he is an Iraqi poet novelist translator scholar born and raised in Baghdad associate professor at New York University his peace in the guardian is

just out it's headlined a Million Lives later I cannot forgive what American terrorism did to my country Iraq he

co-directed a documentary about post 2003 Iraq titled about Baghdad a collection of his Arabic poetry will appear in English this summer under the

title postcards from the underworld his most recent novel is titled the book of collateral damage we welcome you both to

democracy Now synonym let's begin with you your Reflections on this day 20

years after the U.S invaded Iraq talk about what happened to your country thank you for having me Amy I mean um

what happened in the last 20 years is catastrophic by any measure if you look at the figures of the people who have been displaced because of this Invasion

a total of 8 million Iraqis had to leave their homes 1.2 million Iraqis are internally displaced in Iraq there have been at

least well figures vary but one million deaths we have 4 million orphans we have an economy in shambles we have a country

that is ruled by militias and a country that frequently is in the top most corrupt countries in the world with all kinds of economic and social problems

and one country where the where climate change is manifesting its destructive effects in in horrendous ways and it's important I think since we are in the

United States for citizens to remember the amount of lies and how easily they were sold this war or and as I mentioned in my article how the support for the

war continued for several years and until recently A lot of people still think that somehow Iraq was involved with 9 11 and I think it says something

of course about the corporate media about how information is decimated this disseminated to Citizen sorry and except for democracy now and a few other

outlets the the the media itself of course and then you know the scribes are all complicit in selling this war and in continuing to give us these happy

stories just before coming into the studio out here I was watching MSNBC and one of its reporters wasn't Baghdad saying how great Baghdad is now because

there is tourism and going to one of Saddam Hussein's previous palaces which was turned into an American University in Baghdad which is a private university

and telling us oh it's a co-op University as if Iraq did not have co-ed universities for decades

I can go on of course but I'll stop here if you could also respond and give us your Reflections on on this day as we

Mark 20 years since the U.S invasion of Iraq yes thank you and first of all thank you for uh for the invitation and I'm really

honored to share uh the show with China antoon who is an inspiration to me uh as he brilliantly said

um the figures are enough to explain how this Invasion I refuse the term War because a lot of people on Observer are talking about the Iraq War it was an

Iraq invasion uh illegal and its consequences on many many points are a disaster

but what is really important to me as a French of Iraqi decent is to remember that Iraq was was a country Iraq was a

concept uh we didn't know anything about the sectarian view that the U.S brought in

2003 of course it was in history but Iraqi used to describe themselves as Iraqis there was a sense of of identity

of citizenship when I was a kid I had the chance to go to Iraq I was nine the first time in 89

it was the only year of of peace from the last 40 years and the country I discovered was the opposite of of all the cliches I had

about the country and at the same time I was rational of the nature of the regime but I still remember and I refused to

forget that Iraq was safe Iraq had a daily life that was comparable sometimes to the life I had

in in France again I would like to remind that Iraq was of course a dictatorship and it was difficult or impossible to go against the regime

people were jailed killed or silenced my father was an opponent to the regime and he left Iraq in the 70s so we know that and we knew that at home back in France

but the idea that 20 years later we still are talking about how Iraq now is

a better place how Iraq is a democracy when it's even almost impossible to to have a sense of what the Iraqi City is

today Iraqis are described with their sects or origin or ethnies um Iraqis today are described as sunnis

and Shia occurs and Arabs Christians and and Muslims which is something um I would um I would oppose to what Iraq was and to

me 20 years later Iraq is part of a collective Amnesia and I think it's very important to highlight how Iraq was and

maybe to talk about the future of Iraq if you could talk about in your peace you've just elaborated on what exactly has happened to to Iraqi identity to

what do you attribute the fact that Iraq came to be seen along uh purely sectarian lines and that now as you say

people continue to identify as Sunni Shia kurd Etc you know when the American Army and when the U.S administration of George W bush

the U.S administration of George W bush invaded Iraq they came with the idea that Iraqis again were not Iraqi they

were qualified but they're sects so from the day after the uh the fall of the regime um we have seen on TV people that all

Iraqis didn't really know the Iraqi Elite that came with the US Army representing a concept of Iraq uh through a sects and religion and

confessions and so the we have to remind that everything was destroyed as a country uh

the Iraqi Army was disbanded the institution was dismantled Iraq went

from a very uh a dictatorship to security and political vacuum that was filled with those ideas that Iraqi

discovered to be to be really clear the concept of of dividing the people of talking about a majority and a minority

to me it was really dangerous because this security and political vacuum I was talking about was filled with people having a short-term Vision about Iraq

with their own interest with with probably revenge against the regime and again this idea this very binary vision

of Iraq that the Iraqi people was divided in two like people who supported Saddam and people who were against of course it was much more complex than

that and a lot of mistakes uh came after the uh the invasion of Iraq uh Paul Bremer who was the American

administrator of the country uh did so many uh Mistakes by again dismantling the Army uh talking about diversification

not allowing a lot of Iraqis to express themselves to be part of a common project I clearly remember that all Iraqis sunnis Russia Christian or Muslim wanted

to be part of something wanted to be part of a common project but the system brought by the U.S

mindset at that time were completely against that and this is something that needs to be highlighted today if you want to understand

how Iraq is divided today speaking of that division I'd like to go back to 2006 when then Senator Joe Biden co-authored a New York Times opinion

piece headlined unity through autonomy in Iraq in the piece he called for what's been termed a soft partition of Iraq calling

for the establishment of quote three largely autonomous regions with a viable central government in Baghdad the Kurdish Sunni and Shiite regions would

each be responsible for their own domestic laws Administration and internal security Baghdad would become a federal Zone while densely populated

areas of mixed populations would receive both multi-sectarian and international police protection sanan antun can you respond

I mean I remember that and actually wrote a response to that it's it's uh you know it's vintage Colonial vision

and attitude uh Mr Biden from Delaware uh chlorides a piece telling Iraqis how their country should should be and at

the time I mean despite the the corruption and the sectarian Sentiments of so many Iraqi politicians they were vying and they were in conflict and they were even fighting but none of them had

asked for this type of division actually except for the Kurds but that's a separate issue but that these ideas were internalized then by a lot of Iraqi

politicians uh to start calling for a separate zone for this and that and of course it would be only an excuse for even more organized corruption and more

siphoning of Iraq's resources but I should say that something that that I've been thinking about and talking about is you know the the epistemic violence of American

occupation of Iraq which is what what my friend farad who's a talented writer that I admire and I'm happy to be with him on the show is this destruction and

the erosion of an idea of what is to be Iraqi of course every national identity is a composite and there are always vying narratives but what 2003 did is

it's really Dismount try to dismantle the idea of Iraqi nationalism and replace it with all of these other identities and thankfully

uh the 2019 Uprising by Iraqi youth men and women who went out on the street was actually the most vociferous eloquent rejection

of the regime that the United States installed and it was a rejection of everything it had it stood for and it showed that it had failed in every

respect it had failed in providing living dignified conditions for Iraqi citizens despite all the wealth and one of the early slogans of that Uprising

was no to Iran no to the U.S because one of the consequences of the US invasion is the disproportionate influence that the Iranian regime has in Iraq through

its militias supporting Iraqi militias and others and the other thing is that what the U.S Invasion did to Iraqi sovereignty you know we have we have U.S

troops of course in Iraq turkey has troops in in Northern Iraq and Kurdistan and to bombs whenever it feels like it we have massive Iranian influence and a lot of these U.S journalists and

so-called pundits and experts keep complaining about that and I remember in the first few weeks of the invasion there was a news item saying that the better brigades this is

the militia of the at the time it was called the Supreme Council for the Islamic revolution in Iraq which later changed its name which was based in Tehran of course because they were

exiled and fought by Saddam Hussein but the better militia came into Iraq 30 000 armed men and were allowed to enter into Iraq and as farat mentioned of course

these people went on on rampage assassinating and killing and exerting Vengeance so the other issue was to completely

um dismantle the state institutions in Iraq and not replace them with functioning institutions so you disband the Army but never really build a

functioning Army and that's why when Isis comes about which is itself a product of American presence in occupation in Iraq it was hatched in the

U.S military prisons when Isis comes

U.S military prisons when Isis comes about there is no Army to actually fight Isis because of all of the corruption and let's remember who are the people

who were sent to be experts to help rebuild the Iraqi army or the Iraqi police I forgot his name but the New York City Police Chief who is himself

corrupt was sent to Iraq how can we helped build the Army exactly and who himself was jailed in the Bernard character Detention Center in lower Manhattan they took away the name

Bernard Herrick once he was jailed there yes and your viewers should go and look at also how many people who planned and called for the war then went into Iraq

as contractors this was so the elite and those who supported the war did not lose anything their you know their portfolios triple their Investments went up and all

of that and of course it's it's average citizens who paid the price but um I wanted to follow up on something that you said earlier

um and that was when the after the 9 11 attacks uh President Bush immediately started pushing to attack a rock and as

you said many people don't realize understand it that I mean 15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia a day or two after the attacks you had President Bush on the Truman balcony

with the man they called bandar Bush the Saudi ambassador to the United States smoking cigars together but uh right at that time we interviewed

soon after Richard Clark the counter-terrorisms are um who said that the day after 9 11. uh

President Bush questioned him and other associates of the White House to see if Saddam Hussein did this see if he's

linked in any way Clark was incredulous he said in his book Against All Odds but Mr President Al Qaeda did this he said Bush responded I know but see if Saddam

was involved just look I want to know any shred Clark added later that he felt they were being intimidated to find a

link between the 9 11 attacks and Iraq and when the attack on Iraq came in 2003 you had the leading Democrats Joe Biden

Hillary Clinton as students were being dragged out of her office in New York she was Senator at the time she voted for the war in Iraq talk about the consensus at that point there wasn't a

consensus on the ground but the media was building this consensus for war well no that's a very important point and I think you know there was a convergence of of different waves and

factions of course we know that from the early 90s the group of neocons had already started this notion of changing the regime in Iraq of course not for the benefit of the Iraqis or for any

concerns for liberty or freedom but for geopolitical interests and protecting the interests of Israel and thinking of us hegemony and then it converges with

uh Bush's Messianic Vision let's remember I mean those of us who are old enough remember but I think younger viewers should should realize and should

read read about the type of Messianic insane Vision that bush thought that he was you know that he had a mandate from God and then there is the you know

um the lingering issue of his father and the supposed assassination attempt but exactly right away after 9 11 both Bush and Ramos Feld were into you know let's

go and and and attack Iraq so the evidence was manufactured later and it was very weak and flimsy evidence so when so many until now are saying had we

known back then what we know actually everything was obvious those of us who are who manage to to read or who did not have the ideological leaning it was obvious that there were

no weapons of mass instruction and no link with Al-Qaeda so the question for U.S citizens and for others is why is it

U.S citizens and for others is why is it that there was a consensus and and I think it's this colonial mentality and frankly white supremacy that is uh

internalized by so many and I I mentioned in the article that this term that the US Army uses in Iraq and Afghanistan Indian Country I mean in the first few months I was watching TV and I

saw an embedded journalist we have to also think not only of embedded journalists embedded Scholars even embedded artists the view in mainstream U.S culture is so skewed that a con that

U.S culture is so skewed that a con that a film that is actually pro war like The Hurt Locker is considered an anti-war film but the the embedded journalist was

with a group of U.S soldiers in a Humvee about to exit a military base that the U.S had occupied right to go into

U.S had occupied right to go into somewhere near Baghdad and the soldier tells the journalists we are now in Indian country and that stayed with me and I looked into it and what does it mean I mean when when

Indian Country meaning you know Lawless land where there are no laws and no civilization and that you know simultaneously of course invokes the national U.S myth about spreading

national U.S myth about spreading civilization on this continent and erases genocide and destruction but also it convinces the soldiers and the

viewers that actually are they are spreading democracy and civilization and it extends to everyone I mean uh a lot

of a lot of journalists until today and many years into the war would ask so did we not do something good in Iraq so where does this assumption that somehow

if the US Army goes somewhere they must do something good and it's a complete uh denial of of the colonialism that is ingrained in this view of looking at the

world and looking at other parts of the world your documentary titled flavors of Iraq we'll just go to clip now in which

your character visits the green zone in 2011 just before the U.S troop

withdrawal and your character tells American soldiers there what he thinks of the invasion let's go to a clip [Music]

I told them that freedom can't be forced on people that they had empowered 1 000 dictators by trying to shoot one that they had destroyed a country on the basis of a lie in the world that they

had started a war between armed groups supported by foreign powers that they had done more bad than good and today the country was in pieces

foreign [Music] we had nothing to do here yes they had nothing to do here the Iraq

that I dreamed of as a child the Iraq that my father fled but loved so much the Iraq split by the Euphrates river which I take my name from that Iraq no

longer existed [Music] a clip from your documentary flavors of Iraq if you could talk about that

documentary and that section uh the clip that we just played for that thank you well the aim of this documentary is again to go against this

binary vision of of uh Iraq and that's why I struggled during all my career as a journalist to give a subjective view

about the Iraq I know and the Iraq I've seen and the first city I've seen with along with bardad was Fallujah Fallujah

was not a well-known City before the war it was just it still is 50 kilometers west of Baghdad it was a remote area

very green along the the Euphrates river which is my name for that is the Euphrates River because my father used

to uh to live around to play around this this River and and had good memories um have you heard anywhere

talking about Iraq in a beautiful way is very difficult today I challenge anyone to look for any beautiful picture or

image of Iraq and my aim with this documentary is to remind that Fallujah was a peaceful City again and

struggled uh like Baghdad around during the the Embargo that started in 91 until 2003.

um the idea again is to confront a concept that completely disappeared when the U.S

Invasion happened in Iraq and uh the sequence that you just showed is about maybe the last moments of the U.S troops

occupying Iraq and that was confronted to the young soldiers who knew still knew nothing about the country and our discussion went around the idea that

Iraq was more than Sunni and Shia more than Baptist and militias and I was really happy to give them some news about the Iraq I've seen and I was

amazed and surprised surprised sorry how on how the U.S soldiers knew nothing about the country and still thought that

sedans had a link with the with Al-Qaeda and with the 911 attacks so the aim again 20 years later is to describe a

concept of Iraq that existed and hopefully as synonym and Anton mentioned will exist again through

this new generation of young people who protested uh since October 2019

um claiming Iraq going against the idea that Iraq is between the U.S and and Iran the first sentences uh in the

streets were around these type of phrases we are all Iraqis we want to get back our country and this

is the only hope I can see today after 20 years going back to to Iraq and and to to cover the news there the only hope

among all the destruction all the consequences on every level of the Iraqi Society the only hope is to see this youth

claiming back what once was a country I wanted to go for atalani to a clip of your 2012 documentary Fallujah a Lost

Generation in this Dr Hana Ahmed Fallujah Hospital examines a baby born with deformities when you made the film you said one in five babies born in

Fallujah exhibited congenital malformations he needs an operation at the moment he's much too weak for us to move forward

with surgery so we have him on observation we have seen many other types of deformities he's not alone some

are more severe than others we have some babies born without skulls without organs and sometimes with their legs

totally twisted but if you can talk specifically about your city about Fallujah the extent of

the attack the use for example by the United States the illegal use of white phosphorus the Second Battle of Fallujah in 2004.

yes and you you mentioned that Fallujah is my my parents Hometown so I had a specific look at the the city

um for personal reasons also because Fallujah became sadly well known um in the international communities uh Fallujah was one of the first city to

resist the uh the U.S occupation and misbehavior and killings of Iraqi people and when it started in 2003 until

2004 the first battle um between residents of Fallujah in the U.S army was a political disaster for uh

U.S army was a political disaster for uh for the U.S Administration and then to go briefly they came back in November 2004 with the ID of

erasing falluja from the map and that's what happened uh so when I came back to Fallujah after this second battle I

discovered a city that was effectively actually completely destroyed erased around 90 percent of the houses were on the ground I had the chance to talk to

my uncles that they'd stayed there and testified that the the the the color in the sky changed that you a new kind of weapons were used

um testimonies about white phosphorus about a very heavy weapons destroying uh in an instant a house or a street and we

discovered later on that uranium was used when I came back to do an investigation about some terrific and

terrible uh news about babies born with deformities um the pictures were so terrible that I

could not really look at them and I spent so I spent two weeks there talking to uh to the to the inhabitants in Fallujah to the hospital doctors uh

going into datas and talking to the families that was that were trying to hide those kids um we talked to a lot of scientists we

had studies we had a lot of uh data linking the U.S bombing of Fallujah and

all the diseases and all the the the the babies born with deformities uh and you mentioned a figure that is still the

case today one on five babies are born with deformities in Fallujah this is one of the most terrible consequences of the US invasion

um and still today the city is struggling with this sanitary if we can call this this way uh situation in in

Fallujah and this is a catastrophe to me you've written a poem that will appear in your book when it comes out in the summer in English translation or

translation you've done yourself from the Arabic if I could ask you please uh to read that poem which is also about the use of white phosphorus and depleted

uranium by The Americans sure sure I mean it was written years ago after the the catastrophe that ferrat was talking about came to light

and it's entitled phosphorus when I was a kid the tail end of my bike had a red reflector it glowed in the dark

like the eyes of a cat illuminated by the headlights of distant cars tiny bits of phosphorus

tiny bits of phosphorus white phosphorus illuminated the Skies of Fallujah years ago and now infants are born there every

day with two heads or Without Eyes John thank you that's uh very moving and beautiful poem now we're speaking as the

Russian invasion of Ukraine has entered its second year and we've just heard now that the international criminal court has called for the arrest of Putin as a

war criminal now the U.S took many steps to ensure has taken that its own officials and Military would be

protected from any such uh attempts by the international criminal court or any other International body for from facing such allegations if you could respond to

that I mean we've just been talking about the use of chemical weapons and the fact that no one has been charged with war crimes

well I also want to go back yes oh sorry I didn't know sorry you could please respond sinan

um you know the depleted uranium was already used in 1991 and caused catastrophic uh consequences for Iraqi

citizens especially in Basra for example and the skyrocketing cancer rates but also there were war crimes committed in 1991 in so-called Desert Storm uh there

are horrific images of how the U.S

bombed withdrawing Iraqi troops from Kuwait it's called the highway of death and there is only one American journalist who took those those images

and I think there was a most media Outlets did not show them because they were too horrific but you know um there are double and triple standards

in so-called international law and as we can see of course these the law is weaponized when it serves the interest

because by any measure Bush Cheney Condoleezza Rice um are all war criminals but of course they will not be put on trial and I think actually Bush cannot travel

internationally because he you know might face consequences so um I mean the the attitudes especially of Americans but of a lot of Europeans

to the Russian invasion of Ukraine in so many ways just shows the double standards and the also the hierarchy of human worth that a lot of people on this

planet believe in who really who really is a full human being that you can empathize with you know because they look like us quote unquote or because they are European from a certain part

Europe also and whose death really doesn't count whether they're Palestinian or yemeni or Syrian or Iraqi or abrahani whose death doesn't even register and a million deaths becomes

just a statistic because they are not viewed as having lived full lives because their lives do not resemble our lives so

you know Putin is considered a war criminal but we live in a country where war criminals are still going around appearing on TV dancing on the Ellis

Degeneres Show and you know Bush talks about his paintings and also when these war criminals die as with Rumsfeld none you know there isn't even a mention of

the catastrophic consequences of their decisions that as we as we talk now about depleted uranium this is in the unborn babies this is in the wombs of mothers this is in the air and in the

soil and it will always be there and let's put the same question to furat Alani as President Putin has been indicted for

war crimes on this 20th anniversary of the Bush Invasion the U.S invasion of Iraq do you feel that President George W bush that

Dick Cheney and other high-level U.S

government officials should be charged with war crimes for what happened to your country to Iraq mentioned the list of crimes is very long especially about Iraq but not only

Iraq it was funny to see the reaction of Joe Biden talking about the ICC going after Putin when Joe Biden said something like

yes this is great but at the same time he said but us the USA we don't recognize the ICC and we we we know why

Bush would be on the list a lot of people will be on the list even if we can see similarities of course with the invasion of Ukraine by

Putin and Iraq at that time on the illegal aspect on the aggression of international law we have 10 seconds it's very important to remind very important to remind that bush

should be judged and it's not acceptable that he's still joking about Iraq