Chase Hughes: Rewire Your Brain & Make Habits Stick

What if you could rewire your mind?

Yeah, that New Year's resolution that you're worried is going to fall apart.

Well, what if you're doing it wrong?

Okay, today's interview is Chase Hughes.

He is a 20-year Navy veteran who is the expert in the world on interrogation and really brainwashing people into better behavior. Yeah. His background comes

behavior. Yeah. His background comes from learning about this and implementing these behavioral changes in the interrogation room and for places

where the enemy of the state was his job to get information out of. But what he's leaned into is a Harvard trained and a Duke University trained neuroscientists

who flips behavior to an incredible potential of being the best version of you. This interview is something I

you. This interview is something I counted down to and might be my favorite interview I've ever done. Enjoy the

interview on how to rewire your best health for the next year.

>> I think when it comes to brainwashing, what you're really looking at is effective, fast change of behavior. And

that's what brainwashing [clears throat] really is. Can we change behavior fast?

really is. Can we change behavior fast?

And there's a formula to brainwashing.

And I've taught this to many of my clients. And there's a sevenstep process

clients. And there's a sevenstep process that if you wanted to brainwash yourself, you could take the exact same process and use it for setting goals or we we're in December right now. So, New

Year's resolutions, >> right?

>> Uh and you can take that exact process and we can go through this if you want to. It may take me a few minutes, but

to. It may take me a few minutes, but let's do it.

>> That's exactly right. So, let me just show you where I'm I I'm at this pivot point in my career, which is for 25 years I've been the doctor repairing brains. And as a physician, the first

brains. And as a physician, the first toolbox was a whole bunch of prescriptions. Then it's been TMS and

prescriptions. Then it's been TMS and it's been hyperbaric chamber and it's been the ketogenic diet and it's been sleep reprogramming and some of the

advanced parts of how to heal a brain.

All got stopped when the patients home of origin had an identity locked in their brain that I couldn't bust through. And as I was hearing how you

through. And as I was hearing how you change people's thinking, I mean, I got goosebumps saying, "Oh my gosh, this is what I've been trying to do." So, I

would absolutely love the seven steps that I mean, I hope my my audience can just see this is a brilliant move that for 25 years I've been searching for

this answer. So, let let's just let you

this answer. So, let let's just let you unpack how does how do these seven steps begin?

>> Yeah. So just about everything that we've been taught about goal setting is is built for the wrong brain.

So it's built for the dis the thinking brain instead of the deciding brain. And

we have two of those things. And there's

a there's a thing called the triune brain model where we have this human brain, there's a mamalian brain, there's like a reptile brain. It's a model for the brain. I think all models are wrong.

the brain. I think all models are wrong.

Some are useful. I think this one is very very useful.

So I I think most people don't realize this, but but neuroscience figured this out a long time ago. So the part of you that plans your goals, the prefrontal cortex, this is their front human part

of the brain.

>> This is not the part that actually executes behavior.

Execution lives a whole lot lower, way downstairs. This is our our brain stem,

downstairs. This is our our brain stem, our basal ganglia, our our lyic system.

And that's why people can know exactly what they want to do and still they don't do it.

>> So we don't have a character flaw problem here. And most people are like,

problem here. And most people are like, "Oh, I'm an idiot. I'm lazy. I'm I lack discipline." It's just architecture.

discipline." It's just architecture.

So once you understand that, we we're going to stop asking ourselves how do I motivate myself better? How do I get more motivation or more discipline? And

we start asking how do I reprogram the system that decides what feels necessary? That one question.

necessary? That one question.

>> What feels necessary? Okay.

>> Yeah. Cuz if something feels necessary, then of course we're going to we're going to jump on it. We're going to take action on it. So step one is target

acquisition. So this is how the brain

acquisition. So this is how the brain locks onto something. And your brain has a structure called the reticular activating system uh which is part of the reticular formation,

>> right?

>> And inside of this RA is its job is to filter reality, not really giving you full reality. It's

just filtering it down to what it thinks is important to you. So you're exposed to millions and millions of bits of information every second. And so let's say it's an average of let's say 8 to 10

million bits of information per second.

Your brain holds on to 40. Your brain

makes you aware of 40 of those bits.

>> So, it deletes almost everything else.

So, what does it keep? It's it keeps what it's been trained to look for.

That's why when uh you go out and buy a new car, you suddenly start seeing that thing everywhere, >> right?

>> The cars didn't multiply and it's not like everyone went out and copied you and went out and got the same car. Your

brain says, "Okay, Chase thinks this uh pickup truck is important. I'm going to show him everybody else that has this pickup truck everywhere. So, it's your brain changing a filter. So, when people say, "I want a better year,"

>> right?

>> The reticular activating system completely ignores it.

>> ignores it. This is why failed resolutions everywhere. You're starting

resolutions everywhere. You're starting in the wrong spot of the brain, >> right? And there's nothing that it can

>> right? And there's nothing that it can really lock on to.

>> So, but when you define a precise arrival condition, that word exactly, a precise arrival condition, M >> the filter updates, but you have to do

it all the time. Remember, the lower part of your brain has no capability with language. So when people say,

with language. So when people say, "Write out these affirmations, put this post-it note on the mirror, say something to yourself," the lower part of your brain cannot speak English.

>> Offline. Okay.

>> And we have a lot of structures in our brain. We have a visual cortex. You have

brain. We have a visual cortex. You have

an auditory cortex. Um but there is no hierarchical structure for language in the brain. So, we have to understand I'm

the brain. So, we have to understand I'm I'm influencing a mammal here and mammals don't speak English. Even though

my wife likes to lecture our dogs [laughter] for 5 to 10 minutes, uh they don't speak English.

>> It was one of my favorite examples you've used said if you if you can't tell this to a dog, you're talking to the wrong part of your brain. You're way

over over complicating it. It has to be that primal and simple. That's where you had me saying, "All right, I've had patients like this where I'm like, I'm making it way too hard. We got to go back to real basics if we're going to

change this behavior." Okay.

>> So true.

>> Keep going. This is good.

>> Okay. So, instead of me saying more money, I'm going to have a number, a condition. I'm going to precise arrival.

condition. I'm going to precise arrival.

What does it look like to arrive there?

>> So, we're moving from motivation to just neuronal targeting. So, we're teaching

neuronal targeting. So, we're teaching our brain what matters. and we're going to do it whether you want to on purpose or you're you're just letting it happen.

It's happening all day anyway. So the

brain's going to work on problems that it thinks are relevant to survival and identity whether you consciously think about them or not.

>> Okay.

>> So is this congruent with who I think and say that I am >> and is this going to help me survive in the tribe? Is it going to help me live

the tribe? Is it going to help me live longer? Whatever. So step two is threat

longer? Whatever. So step two is threat modeling. These are kind of like

modeling. These are kind of like blacksite terms, but what I want you to what I want everybody to know is fear is not the enemy here. And this part can make some

enemy here. And this part can make some people uncomfortable, but neuroscience is crystal clear on this. This is been reviewed for hundreds of years. The

brain is not optimized for happiness. No

neuroscientist will ever tell you that >> it's optimized primarily for threat avoidance. that if you go back to our

avoidance. that if you go back to our ancestors, they were way more likely to mistake a rock for a bear than the other way around, right? So threat avoidance

is number one. Humans don't move toward pleasure is what this is telling us.

We're we're way more likely to move away from threat. So what we're going to do

from threat. So what we're going to do to the human brain is to weaponize the contrast.

>> Okay. So the the protocol here for step two is to write two futures out and make them vivid. Use imagery. Go to Google

them vivid. Use imagery. Go to Google images or Pinterest or whatever. Build

two build two different futures, not just one. So future A is the desired

just one. So future A is the desired outcome. This is vivid, sensory, precise

outcome. This is vivid, sensory, precise and very calm, confidence. All the stuff that you're arriving at this place.

Future number two is the failure trajectory there. So this is if nothing

trajectory there. So this is if nothing happens, nothing changes, same habits, same beliefs, same excuses. This one has to be very uncomfortable.

So loss aversion is stronger than reward anticipation in the brain. And we know this from decades of research.

>> Oh yes. Yes. Yes.

>> Your amygdala, this this emotional part of our brain, it's a threat detection center activates like 10 times faster and 10 times stronger than all the

reward circuits. So when people only

reward circuits. So when people only visualize success, they're missing half of the equation. So consequences are very important. So the brain needs that

very important. So the brain needs that contrast. You need to show it. Uh where

contrast. You need to show it. Uh where

you're going if you change and where you're going if you don't. And here's

the thing that most people I don't think articulate.

Doing nothing is still choosing the future.

>> Mhm. And once you visually model that future emotionally, not just abstract, emotionally, something flips, uh, staying the same begins to feel unsafe.

And that's the point that everyone needs to get to. If we're coming up on new year right now, you need to get in a place where staying the same starts to feel unsafe.

>> That's where you want to be. And safety

is the language of that mamalian brain.

It speaks that fluently. So that's step two.

>> Well, that you called it threat modeling. So the one was the

modeling. So the one was the [clears throat] the threat of what your desires are and the opposite was the threat the the the unchange

but recognizing that that is dangerous.

I mean especially for the patients that I am I can see the danger. I've been

playing this role out for 25 years. I've

seen you a thousand times a decade older, two decades older. The future is terrible if nothing changes. But they

couldn't see that. You're saying that in a in a really I love the amydala. It's

the tiniest little nubbing in the brain, but it is like a hot plate when you get somebody who's got anger and and and fear and drive. It's it's alive. It is

so connected to the rest of the brain that you I mean connecting the behavior change to that super hot spot. Well,

>> yeah, >> it's nothing short of brilliant. Of

course, that would work, right? So the

threat model uh threat modeling is create the desire in a way that also is threatening [snorts] to stay the same. Did I get it right?

>> Yes.

>> Okay.

>> Yep. And just clearly picturing like you are at a fork in the road whether you like it or not. I'm going to build those two forks. I'm going very vividly go

two forks. I'm going very vividly go through and and build those out.

>> Okay.

>> All right. So step three.

>> Okay. I'm writing these down because I'm learning all this.

>> This is identity engineering. So our

habits follow our self-image.

>> And I I will say first going with between step two and three here.

>> Download the app called face app or old >> and it's going to make you 90 years old 80 years old. You just take a selfie. So

your mamalian brain starts forming a relationship because we don't care about our future self because it's harder for us to imagine them, to picture them. So

print that thing out.

>> So say the name of the app again because I I didn't download it, but I I heard you say this about 10 times as I was researching you.

>> You can probably do it with GPT now, but >> Oh, yeah. Probably.

>> Base app will do it. Now we we have a 2-year-old and we aged her to like 16 and then 30. And

>> Dad, don't do that. Don't look ahead.

It's [laughter] hard.

So uh yeah, so face app is great and you want to get your mamalian brain and that reticular activating system to constantly think about older you and

older you should always take priority.

So like if it comes down to me like having five extra drinks or getting plenty of sleep, I'm prioritizing plenty of sleep because that's older me. They

take priority.

>> You said this in one other podcast where I'm like, "Oh, that is the definition of discipline." Like it's not telling

discipline." Like it's not telling yourself or writing it down or the checkbox. It is the image that that

checkbox. It is the image that that person in your future, your future self matters more than this short-term little whatever desire you've got. And I I've

never heard that described that way, but it it connected with, oh, I am using that till the day I die. That that is exactly what discipline is.

>> I love it.

>> Thank you. Mhm.

>> So with step two, we're engineering this identity thing. Your brain is going to

identity thing. Your brain is going to violate logic before it violates identity.

>> Okay?

>> So think about this. We're not going to we're not going to say like, oh well, I'm stupid and here's all these logic things that make total sense. We will

call logic stupid and then rewire the identity around it. This is called cognitive dissonance. It's super

cognitive dissonance. It's super >> it's well researched. So if behavior conflicts with identity, behavior changes, not identity.

This is why people sabotage goals that don't match who they believe they are.

>> So instead of asking >> uh how do I force myself to do this? We

ask what kind of person would never even question this behavior?

So I want to give you this one piece here that that is worth just burning into your soul. Identity lives in

predictive processing. So your brain's

predictive processing. So your brain's model of who I am and how I operate is what that is. So once that model updates, habits stop requiring a whole

lot of effort.

>> So that's why willpower feels exhausting as hell.

>> It's fighting the model instead of rewriting it. So when identity shifts,

rewriting it. So when identity shifts, behavior feels obvious. So there's a protocol here that you can do uh and you could do this daily. Uh and I would recommend it daily if you really want to

do brainwashing on yourself. You have to define three beliefs that that person holds, three daily behaviors that that kind of

person defaults to and then three standards they do not negotiate.

So they're not aspirations that you're setting down. you're writing the rules

setting down. you're writing the rules like the lifestyle rules of this new identity and on a recurring basis. So

that's rule three.

>> Okay. So let me just grab that into my head. So I I look at p I'm going to take

head. So I I look at p I'm going to take back to a time when I was a runner. I

don't like running. I didn't like running. But for a season I decided I

running. But for a season I decided I was going to be a runner. And it took about two months before I started to to hear myself say the things that other

runners said. So if I was applying this

runners said. So if I was applying this to my, you know, belief system is I don't want to be a runner. That's not

what I want to do. But I remember the shift of how I thought about myself. And

to this day, I'm not a runner, but I think of myself as a runner because of how much what you just said. So like the three beliefs that the new person would hold is getting up in the morning in the

dark in South Dakota and leaving the house at 4:30 in the morning was like a pride point. Like this was a badge of

pride point. Like this was a badge of honor that I was doing. not sleepy mom, you know, it was truly a badge of honor that the

the ability to tell somebody how many miles I ran in a week, I thought it was the stupidest thing when I wasn't a runner, but suddenly I adopted this language. I'm like, "Oh, I I am that

language. I'm like, "Oh, I I am that person." And then so to look at the

person." And then so to look at the non-negotiations, it was um I I'm just thinking about what would be a non-negotiation for a runner. Like I

mean you never slept past past the alarm on your run days. You just never did that. That was no you just got up and

that. That was no you just got up and you >> non-negotiable is I this is my tool and I'm not going to put poison in it.

>> I'm not going to do things that injure this thing or if it's one of the non-negotiables is if I have running on my calendar, I will run.

>> Yes. It became

>> so that >> like that cultlike in my mind like I was not breaking a rule. I was doing this and it truly changed how I thought about

myself. I I even though eventually I

myself. I I even though eventually I stopped running somewhere. I think it was the next baby that I stopped running. But it was okay. So I get this

running. But it was okay. So I get this the ident and I look at patients that fail at this. I mean they come in they have diabetes. They are 150 pounds

have diabetes. They are 150 pounds overweight. I can tell them all the

overweight. I can tell them all the things, but until they can see who they're I mean, they have hope of the person that can be them. It doesn't

matter what I say. I could there's no medicine. There's no manipulation.

medicine. There's no manipulation.

There's no way I can get them to get past the sprint of a week of change behavior into I need you to run for the next three years with me to get that

>> that young person back alive in your in your in the human body that you hold.

All right. So, next is environmental sabotage.

And as a subtitle for this, you could write down context always beats discipline.

So, here's an super overlooked fact that is out there. If most of your behaviors is context dependent, it's not value dependent. So, it's same person,

dependent. So, it's same person, different environment, you get a different behavior. So your basal

different behavior. So your basal ganglia run all of these scripts that are tied to location and time and posture and cues. That's why changing

your environment works even when motivation doesn't work. That's why when you walk through a doorway, like I walk into my office to grab something and I forget the moment I I reach that little

boundary from one room to the next, like you're like, "Oh what did I come in here to do? What what was I supposed to get?"

to get?" >> And it was the environment that triggered the lack the loss of that thought. like, "Oh, if I go back into

thought. like, "Oh, if I go back into the other room, sometimes I could remember it." The environment helped you

remember it." The environment helped you restore it. I've seen it. I mean, we've

restore it. I've seen it. I mean, we've all seen this. This is classic cartoon 101 right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. But novelty, making something new and and repetitive forces the brain out of autopilot mode. So, if

the environment changes, this is what we do when we we capture people and put them in a intelligence gathering detention facility. It's what we do when

detention facility. It's what we do when uh someone joins a cult. It's what it's what we're doing to ourselves. I'm I'm

deliberately disrupting the environment.

And and it's effective in these other areas, but you could use it in therapy.

You could use it. It's just a brain operating system. You could help

operating system. You could help somebody with it. You could use it on a a crisis hotline. So, when the environment changes, prediction errors

increase. So, a prediction error is our

increase. So, a prediction error is our brain saying, "I've been in here a million times. here's exactly what it's

million times. here's exactly what it's going to look like. Here's exactly what it's going to happen. Here's how this conversation is going to play out. So

those little errors in prediction increase.

>> So anytime the brain has a spike in prediction errors, it becomes plastic again. This means that some neurons that

again. This means that some neurons that need to get a divorce will get a divorce and they'll start dating other people and eventually reconnect where they need

to be inside the brain. So this is why people change more on vacations and trips than they do at home.

>> Oh yeah. So go go back to it like interrogation moment. Like it so you

interrogation moment. Like it so you take this person, you put them in a place they've never seen before because it's a novel and unfamiliar setting for them. That's why the behavior where they

them. That's why the behavior where they know they're not going to tell you what you want to tell. They know that they're going to be loyal to their, you know, their origin uh commitment. that that

error changes and they start to do things they would have never done in part because the environment is so bizarre to their brain.

>> True.

>> Yes.

>> Okay, >> that's it.

>> So, how do we use that for ourselves then?

>> Yes. Modifying all of these things makes our brain say, "Whoa, this is different." So, this could be getting a

different." So, this could be getting a new wardrobe, rearranging furniture, painting a few rooms in your house. So,

now the next few weeks when you walk in there, you'll be like, "Whoa, I forgot I did this." Like right when you wake up.

did this." Like right when you wake up.

I've had clients that just went out and bought all new furniture. And I I've realized not everybody can do that, but you can make changes that are very different. Jam a stuffed animal into

different. Jam a stuffed animal into your dashboard. Whatever it takes,

your dashboard. Whatever it takes, whatever you have to do. How can I make my brain say, "Whoa, this isn't what I predicted or this is different than the map that I formed before." So, I'm going

to spike prediction errors there. And

>> you know, I have a great story of this.

So, I was trying to get this. I was help working with a person who was addicted to alcohol and the judge had sent her to our clinic and she was uh had more more

resources than most and she moved out of her bedroom into her child's bedroom that had left for school uh while her bedroom was being remodeled and she stopped drinking when she was in the

child's bedroom. Like it was like I

child's bedroom. Like it was like I think I just need to stay in this bedroom because I'm afraid to go back to the place where the other where the other behavior was. And I thought that was the weirdest thing, but I told her, "Do [clears throat] whatever works. If

you stop drinking because you moved into your kids' bedroom, hot damn, give the master bedroom to somebody else."

[laughter] Yeah. So that that's exactly what happened to her.

>> I love that. And it's it's so true. We

we hear stories like this all the time.

>> And it's not that you're weaker at home or in in the predictable area. You're

just scripted.

>> So you deliberately disrupt the environment to break all of these old loops. So, the protocol here,

loops. So, the protocol here, deliberately change something. The

physical layout, all the visual cues that you're used to seeing, the daily routines, the clothing or schedule or looks or whatever it is, maybe the app that you use, maybe you're going to stop

using some apps, you're going to com repeatedly tell the brain, A, you're in charge, B, things are different. That's

kind of what's happening. Novelty forces

our attention. Attention creates

plasticity and then plasticity creates new behavior. So that is that step.

new behavior. So that is that step.

>> Wow. So, and I have seen that play out in lives that I've never had the words to put those together. But I think of another story of adding a puppy where

this mothering this really broken brain and there's negative brains and then there's this lady and she got a puppy and she's gonna die of dementia the next five years. That's what happened to her

five years. That's what happened to her story. But the puppy awoke something

story. But the puppy awoke something that was again a complete distraction and her nurturing side came out instead

of her growly side. Uh, and I I wonder Oh, it might have been part of what triggered that.

>> That's beautiful. I bet it is.

>> Yeah, that's interesting. Okay, so we're at four, the environmental sabotage. And

yes, do that on purpose.

>> Step five is mamalian brain reprogramming.

And this is our lower part of our brain.

We want to reprogram this to set these goals correctly. And there's a million

goals correctly. And there's a million YouTube videos out there that are going to give you this. Here's a eightstep proven goal setting system. Just use

neuroscience. Like it's proven. It's

proven. Uh and this is the fastest way to change. I do this for all my clients.

to change. I do this for all my clients.

But let's talk about conditioning. This

[clears throat] is what cults do. It's

what happens in the interrogation room.

But it's also how a good mentor or a coach can help somebody else. Uh, and I think conditioning scares people a little bit.

>> Mhm.

>> The truth is though, you're already conditioned. You're just not doing it on

conditioned. You're just not doing it on purpose. You're doing it on accident. So

purpose. You're doing it on accident. So

your brain learns through repetition, emotional tagging, social reinforcement, and perceived authority. Those are the four ways our brain really learns.

They're just learning mechanisms. So when you align that, that spells out the word fate and that becomes our fate. The

mamalian brain is controlled by focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. Those

[clears throat] four things that spell out fate. If you align all that,

out fate. If you align all that, behavior starts shifting without any negotiation because there's no words really involved there. And this is how habits become more automatic. This is

why some changes feel like they were totally effortless and others were just super impossible, even when they're objectively harder. The protocol is to

objectively harder. The protocol is to weaponize that faked model. Weaponize

your own focus. Constant visual exposure to all of your goals. Not affirmations,

actual signals to the animal part of your brain.

>> Map that out a little bit further for me. So that your there's a focus. That

me. So that your there's a focus. That

one's easy for me. The tribe and the emotion were easy for me. But tell me about what the authority means on that statement.

>> You're getting proof that your nervous system respects. M

system respects. M >> so there's a trusted advisor. Maybe I'm

I'm if I'm trying to lose weight, I'm going to watch people with lab coats on on YouTube and listen to advice from people who are perceived authority and actual authority.

>> Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay.

>> So I have that nervous system respect for these people and and that would be the authority part. So, I'm going to prove it to my nervous systems in some

way by something that is either a symbolic authority or actual authority.

>> So, the tribe that means that there's someone in your similar story or your sim your life that's doing something and you mirror them. You copy them. That's what tribe

them. You copy them. That's what tribe means to me when I've heard you talk about it.

>> It could be um tell me what it means.

>> That would be step one. The second layer of tribe would be getting around people who expect that version of you to show up.

>> So now you're now you're living off of social expectancy.

>> And we know the number one human fear is judgment and being judged which is why public speaking is rated our top fear even though it's judgment.

>> Uh so live you having to live up to that identity there. And then the emotion.

identity there. And then the emotion.

Make the future you visible, personal, real. Write them a letter. Put a letter

real. Write them a letter. Put a letter in in a coat pocket that you're not going to use for a few months to yourself. Like do stuff that your future

yourself. Like do stuff that your future self is going to be like, "Wow, I was actually thinking about me back then."

Uh, and you start developing that relationship. Um, and it is just so

relationship. Um, and it is just so powerful >> that that really is uh that mamlian brain. I mean you it this is the part

brain. I mean you it this is the part where again the dog training I know that sounds terrible and people can think of it as but really the dog you have if you're train if you've trained a dog it

really you have to focus on the one thing you're trying to teach. If you

show up and you're wimpy that authoritative the authoritative brain they have to see you as an authority or they're not going to learn how to sit or fetch or watch the gate. Uh, and then

when they when you have an older dog that can help show this is what's expected of that dog. Oh, brilliant. So

then the last one, I guess emotion is you you kind of reward the dog, you pet the dog. I guess maybe the dog emotion

the dog. I guess maybe the dog emotion runs out on that analogy maybe.

>> No, no, they feel tremendous. Like they

they've even proven there's a huge surge of dopamine when they finish doing a task right before they get scratched and right before they >> uh get told that they're they did a great job.

>> And our brains work the same way.

They're anatomically they're almost >> identical. We have the same structures

>> identical. We have the same structures as a dog.

>> It is what I went down the rabbit hole studying you because I'm like this is I I grew up on a farm where I think I learned more about animals than I did about humans for the next 20 years. and

then trying to explain why the human is doing some things that are very uh unsafe. This is not good for you. And it

unsafe. This is not good for you. And it

I mean the way you teach this is exactly how if you want to take and improve this human there are some very primitive and mamillian traits that well all right

keep going. What number are we on? Six.

keep going. What number are we on? Six.

>> Six.

>> Six. Okay.

One thing to write down is the further deeper into the brain that I can get all of these things, the more effective it's going to be. And 99% of the systems out there are focusing just on this

prefrontal cortex, this little human brain. We're not getting down to the

brain. We're not getting down to the thing that actually makes all of our decisions.

All right? So, this step is called fear.

F E A R. And this is where everything kind of locks in.

This is where the repetition starts reshaping the nervous system. And

there's a thing in neuroscience called Heb's postulate.

>> What's that?

>> And this says that neurons that fire together wire together. Okay?

>> And that's that's he postulate.

>> But only if the signal repeats and matters emotionally.

>> I I I've actually had correction of that where if you just repeat something, you they're firing together. But when you can lock in an emotion during a season

of their life, now it now it rewires.

Now you've got a brain that's paying attention and we get a lot more outcomes when True.

>> Mhm. Absolutely. So does fear must stand for something? I suppose

for something? I suppose >> it does.

>> Okay.

>> And you can you can kind of visualize the last time like the batteries were low in your smoke detector.

>> Mhm.

>> That little beep like every 2 or 3 minutes when it starts beeping. At first

it pisses you off and then you're like, "Yeah, I'll get to it tomorrow. I'll get

to it tomorrow." And then your brain ignores it. So some neuronal firing like

ignores it. So some neuronal firing like that little thing gets ignored over time that doesn't really wire together to get recognition.

>> Okay?

>> And because the novelty wears off. So

that's what we're saying here. Firing

together, wiring together with emotionality there. And that's the key

emotionality there. And that's the key that most people miss. Repetition

without emotion is just a bunch of noise to your brain.

>> And emotion without repetition just fades off after time. You might have a good memory, but it's going to fade off.

>> When both are present, the brain updates its its model of reality. So changes

really get a lot easier and it starts feeling like who you are instead of what you're doing. And that's the biggest

you're doing. And that's the biggest shift that you can make in your life.

when I've set these goals and there's a point where it stops becoming what I'm doing today and who I am today. Uh

[snorts] reversing that would now require energy which the brain really hates to waste.

So now we have some deep change in a human being. So let's go into this fear

human being. So let's go into this fear protocol. Okay.

protocol. Okay.

>> Fear is the actual formula to brainwash a human being >> and it stands for focus, emotion, agitation and repetition.

>> So we covered a few of these.

>> Okay. daily exposure, no exceptions, and then emotion, tying all these habits to relief, pride, safety, and then going the other direction to failure, harm,

all the negative outcomes and negative consequences. And then agitation. This

consequences. And then agitation. This

is what we just talked about a minute ago. I'm disrupting my environment. I'm

ago. I'm disrupting my environment. I'm

disrupting as much as I possibly can to tell my brain this is new and unexpected. And then repetition. You

unexpected. And then repetition. You

track it until the discipline disappears. Why do you want the

disappears. Why do you want the discipline to disappear? because then it becomes a habit. So we see people going to the gym all the time. Oh, he's eating kale chips when everybody's got Reese's

peanut butter cups. That's not

discipline. That's a person who used a little bit of discipline for a couple of weeks and then just had a new habit. So

people think like, oh, he's going to the gym, they're so disciplined. Not

discipline. He he had discipline initially, but it just takes a little teaspoon of discipline and then the habit forms. And after the habit forms, it's who you are, not what you're doing.

>> So, let's just unpack a bad habit here and and see if we can um apply this. So,

one of the one of the behaviors that I try to teach on my channel, I'm taking care of lots of folks who've been insulin resistant for 20, 30 years. And

one of the most powerful changed behavior is not eating after sunset. So,

we want no food after sunset. So if we were trying to use that as all right um you we've got to find identity in

somebody who does not eat at bedtime not does not eat from like I mean 5:00 on so again lots of social things happening there the the number of temptations they

have to eat h the list is a mile long so okay so let's just use that focus emotion agitation repetition uh repetition in that setting So the focus would be

>> we're I mean I would say if it was one of my clients I would say this is [clears throat] going to be this most of this these decisions will happen in your kitchen.

>> Yeah >> probably.

>> Yes.

>> Unless you've got a fridge in your bedroom or something.

>> God helps them.

>> I would say let's go to that fridge then I'm going to get all the consequences of an action. I'm going to put that on one

an action. I'm going to put that on one side of the fridge. Maybe closer to the handle.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. So this half of the fridge is going to be maybe I'll have a letter up there from Dr. boss that says, "I'm so sorry. You've only got 36 weeks left to

sorry. You've only got 36 weeks left to live." Or whatever the extreme

live." Or whatever the extreme consequences are so I can actually see the letter.

>> Uh then I'm going to maybe download an app that makes me gigantic or download an app that's going to show me what I a uh or an image of a blood cell that's that's damaged.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> Broken mitochondria, dead mitochondria, what I look like in 10 years if I do this and 10 years if I don't. and then

all the positive things on the left side of that fridge. So, every time I walk up there, I've got a very I've got focus, I've got emotion, [clears throat] >> and I have agitation.

>> That's a little bit of agitation, >> right?

>> And then I'm seeing it all all day every day, >> but I want more agitation than that.

Obviously, I'm I'm going to try try to change up everything I possibly can. So

just that one little step is a visual reminder of which side of this fridge am I choosing? So it starts it starts

I choosing? So it starts it starts forcing you to prioritize your future self.

>> Oh, that is so perfect because it's in the moment. I mean, one of one of my the

the moment. I mean, one of one of my the hardest things that I've I mean, I've failed at this a a lot, Chase, which is I need them to reach for a habit in a time where their brain has done the

opposite of what I want them to do for 10 years, for 20 years. And now I'm saying, you got all the temptation.

You're right there. You're alone.

Nobody's watching. And now I need you to do the opposite of what you've done for 20 years. How do you reach that moment?

20 years. How do you reach that moment?

So, what you've just changed there is, I mean, you touched on a lot of things that would do that. Their environment

was sabotaged. They've got this place where it says, "Hey, look at you. Look,

I mean, one of my favorite things is to look at the image of a patient with Parkinson's and dementia. I mean, their face, I I can see it in their face." And

if you've ever cared for somebody when their brain's not working right, I mean, at the end of their life, you just look at that picture and you can say, "That's the brain I'm trying to prevent." And

it's it should scare the tar out of people because it's a terrible moment.

But you've got the environment changed.

The mamillian brain part that we were just is also like okay um you know go call your support group. Find any way out of this moment. You've got a tribe

of people that are expecting you to do the right thing. Uh so all of this is real really building. But I now have a pretty clear imagery of saying this habit is killing you. It really is

killing you. really creating that that

killing you. really creating that that um the open the fridge and face reality because it's brilliant. It's in the spot that they're making the mistake too.

>> Okay.

>> And you also you want to shove some of those things in in your in our own face.

So that's what we want to do. like some

of these beliefs, the the reality of that belief, we'll take it to the extreme a little bit, but maybe we'll make it a beautiful desktop wallpaper kind of thing with good text on it, but we have one of those beliefs right in

their face where they see it and it says like, "I don't deserve to be healthy."

>> Uh, and we shove it right in their face.

And the brain is is very reactive. And

so we we are, you know, we're more prone to move away from things. So it's not like you're going to accidentally program your brain by having that with mountains in the background or anything but

>> but that amydala would light up and you would be irritated you there would be anger that that is exactly the neuroscience where you say what do you mean I don't deserve to be healthy and now I will tell you I have met that

patient tens of thousands of times where they are sabotaging their own health and it's from a root analysis in their childhood where they were either

neglected or that wasn't prioritized or They comfort themselves with food during a time when a parent should have been in their life more. And so there's this there's whispering in their own soul

that is sabotaging it and almost to like call it out. You don't deserve this. And

now you got them ticked off, but they're awake. They are they are cognitively uh

awake. They are they are cognitively uh recognizing wh why are you doing this again?

>> Yeah. as a as a c as a side to that like I have another client uh right now he's a CEO of a small company but he's afraid of charging higher fees and he's afraid

of like asking for money from these people and and and doing work and a lot of people have really screwed up stuff in our psychology with money >> y absolutely

>> and he has a problem asking for this money that's it's not even ridiculous money he's not asking for millions or anything for this thing it's just more than He thinks it should be, but I'm

like, "Well, your services warrant that, so why don't you just charge more?" He's

like, "Yeah, I don't know. I don't

know." So, we made him a desktop wallpaper, actually on his desktop wallpaper that says, "My kids don't deserve money."

deserve money." >> Oh, my kids deserve success.

>> Ah, get him out of his own spot because it is the consequences of that block that's going to affect them.

>> Yes.

>> Oh, that is good. You are tricky.

That is perfect. But he said that that rewired him. Just us doing that rewired

rewired him. Just us doing that rewired him in like 3 days and he still has it as his desktop wallpaper >> just so he can look at it every day and say like this is

>> And when you're raised by somebody who really is a miser and that's in your core belief, you don't you're almost haunted by why am I making this decision when I know better? Uh, and to be to

bring something full, you know, attack it with the opposite like the ridiculousness that you don't deserve to be healthy, that your kids deserve poverty and that's what you're giving

them by not charging for what your value is in the economy. Uh, oh yeah, you've done this before.

>> I've done it before.

Uh so the only thing I would leave people with uh with this system is too many people think that I I didn't do this cuz I was lazy or I didn't get it

um because of some personality trait.

Fill in the blank personality trait. The

reason that you failed in the past uh is not cuz you're lazy. It's because you were taught systems that ignore how humans actually change. Uh all we did is

take something that is used in Guantanamo and then moved it into goal setting just because it's so good and I I it's proven all of this is

>> so unpack that Guantanamo like just unpack that for because I've heard you tell the story before so I got exactly what you said but make it very clear for what did you learn at Guantanamo that now you're putting in the neuroscience

of changing people who are stuck.

>> Yeah. And this isn't just Guantanamo and this is how Charles Manson worked. This

is how uh the the Waco uh guy David Caresh like recruited people.

>> Uh so it's a tremendous amount of focus.

We know there's one thing that creates focus like nothing else and that's novelty.

>> We know a massive amount of focus. Then

we have a massive amount of emotion. So

what happens when you get into a you're captured in on a battlefield? Lots of

emotion. There's people yelling at you, people slapping you across the face. You

you're sleepd deprived. You're getting

woken up to Britney Spears nonstop every time you fall asleep and sprayed with water.

>> But on the other side, when you join a cult, there's lovebombing.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> It's still emotion. It's massive amounts of emotion in either direction works to works to change the human brain. And

then agitation, exposure to things that your brain cannot predict. And this is everything when you join a cult. It's

everything in the interrogation room.

And it's the fastest way to rewire human behavior. And then repetition. We just

behavior. And then repetition. We just

keep doing it and keep doing it and it doesn't stop. And then your brain just

doesn't stop. And then your brain just says, "Oh, this is not going to stop.

I'm just going to take these neurons, disconnect them and and reconnect them in this new new pattern."

>> So that agitation part is the you don't deserve this your kid's poverty. Finding

something that I mean that part has to be I mean it hurts my gut to say that out loud. So clearly that's you know a

out loud. So clearly that's you know a home of origin for me too is like oh >> there's not enough money for that. You

can't do that. this is the path you're supposed to be on. The agitation has to be higher than what I was helping patients with. Like I've never pushed

patients with. Like I've never pushed that part of it.

>> And agitation's great. And for some people it's a tiny little tweak is enough to do it. Some people you need to go go up a little higher. There's

there's so many different ways that we can get our brain to be neuroplastic.

But those two ways of novelty, repetition, and increasing that prediction error mechanism in our brain forces that neuroplasticity.

And let's get specific here.

Neuroplasticity is a general term. What

we're really talking about here is something else called synaptic plasticity. This is where the synapses

plasticity. This is where the synapses are getting divorced and then starting to date other people and then they might get married to these new neurons in a way that helps us.

>> So the fastest way to change is just following this recipe. And it's been proven for hundreds of years. Well, and

I think that when when I look at the end result that I want that patient to to be talking about, it's that their identity is no longer that of a fat person. It is

a that of a healthy person. That's not

how healthy people think. They don't do that. But you don't just wake up telling

that. But you don't just wake up telling them the words. You have to you have to rewire with some of these. There has to be emotion. And some of that em emotion

be emotion. And some of that em emotion needs to be they are ticked off and and that that's almost where the divorce happens like oh huh that's different and

getting that attention it I mean without it I've seen the fail >> the identity is is the shift that that needs to be made. So what you can ask

these patients are or anybody I I would ask this question to if you were an Olympic level athlete and you had a perfect body and you woke up in that body tomorrow.

>> Yes.

>> How freaking hard would you instantly start working to get back to what you identify with and get right back to where you that baseline what you identify as baseline. So the day you woke up everything shifted. You didn't

need goals. You didn't need a bunch of post-it notes. You didn't need some big

post-it notes. You didn't need some big goal setting planner taped up on the wall that looks really nice. You just

needed the identity. The identity was 10x the amount of fuel that you needed to make that shift. So at the end of the day, just implant that idea of like if I

am this person, I'm repulsed by this.

Not in a way that I'm selfjud judging of anything. It's like I I will not live in

anything. It's like I I will not live in this location. I do not like this

this location. I do not like this location of my body or this physicality and I'm just going back to where I belong and that's what they're really

>> h yeah so I'm raising three sons ages 19 22 and 24 and uh doing great in life they are doing great at life but when you see them shift away from the

identity that they wanted to be it's just powerful how quickly they will say things like that is not what I would have done when I was on the wrestling team two years ago in high school. And

so they found that identity. They

articulated it. I also think that the agitation part is what maybe me as a mom, I'm I'm not pulling on that. I I

would have stayed away from that. But

that's that's part of it. That's part of finding what agitates them that this is the this is the person you become without that change. Oh,

>> yeah.

>> Very true. That's great. A great

observation. And they're super self-aware if they're doing that. That's

great.

>> Yeah. Well, let's uh you know, let's see how that story plays out. They're young

men so remember when you were 19 years old, all the stupid things they still they still do. You're like, "Yep,

do. You're like, "Yep, >> it's always a game of we'll see."

>> Yep.

>> We'll see.

>> Yeah. Uh yeah. Hold on tight to Your daughter, you said, is two?

>> Yes. My oldest is 24.

>> Okay. So, you've been through this chapter once and now you're about to hold on for a tight ride again where you'll blink and she's 15.

>> I have. Well, so the beautiful part of this is that I come to New Year's every year and I almost blow it off because patients are like, "Oh, they're going to

fail. This is what's going to happen."

fail. This is what's going to happen."

And in when I started looking into your like, "How do you brainwash ourselves?"

I mean it just sounds naughty like well maybe that's going to work because what we've been doing uh of coaxing them of culing you know even bribing them to

change behavior well is not working it has not worked for I'm 54 and 54 years of negative working but this this

framework oh it is it is true I can feel that it is true like oh that is exactly how you would change behavior this year's New Year's resolution is going to

be completely different.

So I I want to say that the things if I was looking for the book I was reading looking through all your books. You have

some some toms out there that I'm like I'm not ready to read those. But uh

yeah, Dr. Phil says this is the number one book in the world and it's what 800 pages. I'm like let's start with a

pages. I'm like let's start with a couple of the cool ones that I think my audiences would like. So there's the it's got the word six in it. What is um six >> six minute x-ray

>> x-ray. Yeah. So tell the tell that book

>> x-ray. Yeah. So tell the tell that book as well as the word tongue and how those two books might help the people listening to here.

>> Tongue is more like art and literature.

It is like I even put >> copies. It's not here yet, but I am I'm

>> copies. It's not here yet, but I am I'm just dying to use these. I I cannot wait for the social experiment. I cannot

wait. I'm sorry I interrupted you.

>> I put a a one-star [clears throat] review on the back cover of the book just in case. Um, [laughter]

it's made it's not made to be informative. Tongue is made to be an

informative. Tongue is made to be an actual experience. So, I used all of my

actual experience. So, I used all of my knowledge about influence and brainwashing and all of that to use language to take language out of reality

and put it where it belongs. So, I just mean by that the the book tongue was written because we look at something and the naming of the object comes before

the experience. It should be the other

the experience. It should be the other way around. I should experience the

way around. I should experience the object and then search for a label afterward.

>> It's like prefrontal cortex wakes up and then you wake up your mamian brain instead of the other way around.

>> Yes.

>> Right. Okay. And so this >> the tongue is meant to radically shift.

If like if you read it word for word, it is super weird. It's bizarre. Some pages

are just full of words like the same word some of them. And it's for a good reason, but it's it's not like any of my other books. [clears throat]

other books. [clears throat] >> And six minute X-ray is a behavior profiling system I originally developed for like intelligence operative people, the Jason Bourne people,

>> right?

>> And in 6 minutes or less, you it it's teaching you in in that amount of time, can you profile someone that's deeper than most of their friends and family even know? like all the way

down to insecurities and fears and weird internal hidden motivators and drives.

Uh, and kind of like when I was growing up, I started doing this when I was 19.

I'm 45 and I I've just I think I was a psychological voyer. [laughter] Like I

psychological voyer. [laughter] Like I wanted >> I wanted to see behind the masks because everybody's kind of wearing a little mask even if we pretend that that we don't. I wanted to see what was what was

don't. I wanted to see what was what was going on with other people, what they were hiding. Uh because I had a a ton of

were hiding. Uh because I had a a ton of social anxiety and I just kind of lived my life assuming that no one else did.

>> And so when I realized everyone everyone is faking it to a degree, everybody everyone's lonely and like especially today

>> um and it was just it was freeing for me. So it became super addictive that I

me. So it became super addictive that I wanted to see further and further and further and further behind the curtain and then it was about shortening the time. How long does it take uh to do

time. How long does it take uh to do that? And that's what the six-inute

that? And that's what the six-inute x-ray system is. It was a like government operative level system that even my mom can do.

>> And so I'll tell you one of my favorite reviews of it and I don't know if it was online that I saw it or somebody talking about the book where they said I'm not from the military. I don't profile

people, but I learned so much about myself as I tried to master this. And I

think the same thing goes for this whole, you know, brainwash yourself into better behavior. These seven steps

better behavior. These seven steps aren't like, oh, hey, you've got them right there in front of you. Why will

most people in watching this video struggle? Because they are hard. You

struggle? Because they are hard. You

have to talk to yourself. your the

deepest part of who you are, the quiet part that you're afraid to say out loud is part of profiling people like the part that you just shared that that secret of being insecure and then the

refreshing part of saying >> it ain't just you buddy. We all struggle with this. And then the freedom that

with this. And then the freedom that comes with that on the other side.

>> That's what that's what I see. Mastering

this is that's the benefit of this. Just

like when that guy was reading that sixinute X-ray, he's like, "Yeah, you might have picked this book up because you were trying to figure out other people."

people." >> But I kind of figured out me in this.

And that's where I thought, "Oh, so I don't have that book yet either, but I have it ordered." And I will say with these seven things that we covered today, that's not even a sevenstep

process. That is exactly the operating

process. That is exactly the operating system of what your brain's already doing. We're just grabbing it and doing

doing. We're just grabbing it and doing it on purpose. And that's the beauty of it. That I think that's the way to know

it. That I think that's the way to know if a system is going to really work or not is like, does our body do it naturally? And this is exactly how our

naturally? And this is exactly how our brain works.

>> Oh, well Chase, I know I would I promised you I'd keep this to an hour because of your world, as busy as mine.

But I want to make you another promise that I'm hard to get rid of [laughter] because you and I have about a checklist of maybe 10 things that I would love to

interview you more on. If if you Google Chase, you'll see some struggles he's had about brains. And we'll leave that for a future conversation. But uh I just want to say thank you for being the kind

of guy who nerded out in the direction that satisfied your curiosity in a way that really unlocks uh a prison that many of my patients have been stuck in

for years. So uh you win as the hero in

for years. So uh you win as the hero in many layers there.

>> Well, thanks doc. And we'll have to have you here in my studio uh so I can pick your brain on mitochondria very soon.

>> You bet. That sounds good. Merry

Christmas and thank you