Chief AI Architect: How to Make AI Your Strategic Partner in 40 Minutes | Conor Grennan

Look, even if the technology doesn't change from today, it can still wipe out 25% of entry-level white-collar workforce. Connor Grennan is the chief AI architect and founder of AI Mindset, a training organization helping people to adopt AI into their daily life. Reinventing a process gets noticed way more than you just doing more work. New

life. Reinventing a process gets noticed way more than you just doing more work. New

tools drop daily. You're using it a few times in a week and wondering, am I already behind? How do you even keep up? And if I don't figure this out, my job is going to disappear. So first of all, don't stress, right? Everybody's

going crazy with, oh, I just made this into this. Don't worry about that. To

me, like a power user is using it across everything from home to work and back again, and also are having long conversations because this is not Google. This is

a companion. In this conversation, Connor reveals why we naturally misunderstand AI, how to transform AI from a search tool into your most powerful companion, how to navigate the changing job market, and what skills actually matter when nobody knows where the technology is headed. Conor, thank you so much for doing this. I'm so excited to be

headed. Conor, thank you so much for doing this. I'm so excited to be talking to you. You're teaching thousands of future business leaders, AI. You're talking to huge companies, teaching their leadership. Can you introduce yourself in 60 seconds and tell me why people should be listening to you when it comes to AI? Thank you so much for having me. It's really an honor to be on your show here. Yeah, so

I'm Connor Grennan. I am Chief AI Architect over at NYU Stern School of Business here in New York City. And a lot of what I do is I run AI Mindset, which is a training consulting organization. We train big organizations and kind of like everybody, but on a completely new way of thinking about AI. It's a behavioral framework rather than just, hey, here's a few features and a tool that everybody should

use. And the idea is when you're actually sitting with people in the room, a

use. And the idea is when you're actually sitting with people in the room, a lot of them are just using it, you know, a couple of times a week or a few times a month or just for a couple of different things. And

for queries. And for queries. Just asking questions. So that's... That's exactly, exactly. We can

end the podcast right now. That was it, right? Like the idea is that when they are using it, well, two things are sort of going wrong with the statistics, I think. First of all, imagine if you were in a big room and you

I think. First of all, imagine if you were in a big room and you said, hey, who here is using Excel? Every hand goes up, right? But if you say, who's using it in those at least 40 formulas and has done one half million dollar deal? The three investment banker hands go up. So everybody's quote unquote using it, but who's actually really using it to change how they work and how they

do it? Everything to me, like a power user is using it across everything from

do it? Everything to me, like a power user is using it across everything from home to work and back again, and also using it like 30 times a day and also are having long conversations because as you said, this is not Google. That's

not Google search. This is a companion. Yeah. When it comes to people who are listening to this and they're like, okay, I'm using it maybe a couple times a week and I feel like I'm falling behind because everyone around me is sharing like, oh, I just started using this new app and it transformed everything that I do. What should these people be doing now? Yeah. So first of all, don't stress,

do. What should these people be doing now? Yeah. So first of all, don't stress, right? Everybody's going crazy with, oh, I just made this into this. Don't worry about

right? Everybody's going crazy with, oh, I just made this into this. Don't worry about that. The most important thing people can do is just take whatever tool they're comfortable

that. The most important thing people can do is just take whatever tool they're comfortable with. And by that, I mean, Chagipity or Gemini or Cloud or Copilot whatever it

with. And by that, I mean, Chagipity or Gemini or Cloud or Copilot whatever it is, it doesn't matter. And just start applying what they are doing using this tool.

So people keep thinking, I think this is the problem why people were saving like the 10,000 prompt libraries. And it didn't make any sense except FOMO basically. But what

I would say is just take this and realize I have to do a certain amount of things during the day. Here are the things that I do either at home or at work. It almost doesn't matter. And what am I doing? I'm usually

just trying to figure that out by myself or maybe going to Google every once in a while. And imagine you have sort of this magical, brilliant fairy godmother next to you all the time that is just always at your fingertips. So don't worry about what's the latest tool or GPT 5.2. What does it do? You don't need 10 PhDs in your pocket. You just need some help every day. And what is

like the use case that you think is the most transformative? So for me, for example, asking Gemini, to read my email and put things into my calendar. That's

already a game changer. I'm like, really? Finally. All the school emails, like everything, they just go into calendar and I automatically add my husband to everything. The best. Has

there been a use case for you where you're like, oh my God, just try this. and your life is going to change, you will understand the power of AI.

this. and your life is going to change, you will understand the power of AI.

I think for me, it's really just sort of like brainstorming and having conversations. So

I do a lot of writing. And so a lot of what I do is actually do a lot of teaching and writing, right? So in both those things, AI has been really powerful because I'm a writer by background. So I think I'm a good writer. But the idea is it can always be better. So I just take

good writer. But the idea is it can always be better. So I just take what I've already written and just throw it into like, for me, it's like Claude maybe or Copilot or Gemini or ChatGPT and say, just make this more readable. So

I'm not asking AI to do a first draft of something, right? Because then it's hard to get the AI out of it. It's write your first draft first, always, always, always. And then just put it in and say, hey, how can I make

always, always. And then just put it in and say, hey, how can I make this better? This is my audience. Like, what am I doing wrong? And for me,

this better? This is my audience. Like, what am I doing wrong? And for me, it's make this more readable. What are the stats are in here? That's number one.

And the second use case for me, again, me as a sort of a creator and entrepreneur, is I'm just trying to figure out like, what am I missing? Here's

what I'm doing right now. But I use, you know, and you know, the thinking models essentially of these things. So you can kind of say like, hey, think a little longer or something like that. And we'll just give you a, it's almost like having a co-CEO or a co-founder or a co-idea generator with you to say, you know what, Connor, I know you've been doing it this way this whole time, but

have you thought that maybe that's flawed? And if you ask it to poke holes in your argument, it's unbelievably impactful. Yeah. And this is the mindset change, right? Because

you're going from, oh, I'm just asking questions to, I treat this as my career coach. I treat this as my co-writer. What is this mindset shift? What do you

coach. I treat this as my co-writer. What is this mindset shift? What do you teach your students? Yeah, the mindset shift is everything, right? And mindset's a little bit of a... I don't know, like I don't love the word even though my company's

of a... I don't know, like I don't love the word even though my company's called AI Mindset, but it's because it feels like it's kind of like nothing. But

what we mean is that this is a behavioral shift. And what I mean by that is when we're going and talking to big companies, I mean everybody from Walmart on down, right? The idea is every company tends to treat this as a digital transformation. And what a digital transformation is, you know very well, right? It's you're taking

transformation. And what a digital transformation is, you know very well, right? It's you're taking a new product and replacing the old product, but that product kind of does the same thing, right? You know, pencil and paper, now you're using Excel, or you had, you know, fax machines, now you're using email. The thing about that is that you're just moving from one tool to another tool that does essentially the same thing. So

that's what a digital transformation is. But imagine now we have something that does something wildly differently. It helps you think in a new way. Like, I ask people all

wildly differently. It helps you think in a new way. Like, I ask people all the time, hey, what does ChatGPT replace? Because you can always say what something replaces, right? Like, you know, again, email replaced the fax machine and the hammer replaced the

right? Like, you know, again, email replaced the fax machine and the hammer replaced the rock. You can always say what something replaces. But with ChatGPT, there's no answer, right?

rock. You can always say what something replaces. But with ChatGPT, there's no answer, right?

It's a new way of thinking. It doesn't, sometimes people say Google search, but it doesn't really replace just search. It replaces a million different things. So if that's the mindset where you're like, this isn't something that's replacing something. This is as if I have a new person, next to me. Right next to me. Able to help me with anything. Like if you spill coffee on your shirt, it's going to help you.

with anything. Like if you spill coffee on your shirt, it's going to help you.

Like if you need to brainstorm, it's going to help you. If you need to process information, it's going to help you. If you need to figure out a 12 year old's birthday party, it's going to help you. It's, it's so broad that narrowing it down to use cases can get overly limiting. So it's that new way of thinking. Yeah. I heard you say, when you just write down things that you're doing,

thinking. Yeah. I heard you say, when you just write down things that you're doing, you can take a picture and send it to ChatGPT and ask what are the tools that can speed it up. And something that I realized is really working for me right now, in terms of even for early adopters, memory is such a core thing, right? And every app, it remembers all your interactions with it. It remembers your

thing, right? And every app, it remembers all your interactions with it. It remembers your goals, your passions, things you're trying to avoid. And so I started doing more strategic things with ChatGPT and Gemini. I liked them both and perplexity. I'm trying to use all of them for different purposes. But what I realized, if I start talking about

my strategic goals and where I'm headed, then every answer is targeted to that goal.

And like when I'm asking, even like about the hotel in New York, and Chad GPT would be like, Marina, you're trying to slow down. You're trying to do this, this, and that. You should choose this hotel because it's only 10 minutes away from the studio. Like starting, do you feel like For everyone who's just brand new to

the studio. Like starting, do you feel like For everyone who's just brand new to this and has used ChatGPT a couple of times, would you say integrating AI, the best way to start integrating AI would be talking to it about your strategic goals first and like describing who you are? Absolutely. And I love that example that you just gave on the hotel. So let's break that one down for a second, right?

So Google, or let's call it Google search. I don't mean Gemini here. You just

say like, hey, what's a good hotel that's generally near the studio, right? And so

Google will sort of like look and it'll give you a deterministic response. It's like,

OK, these are all within three blocks. But imagine if you had a friend that really knew the area. Right? And you're like, Connor, my best friend in the world.

Where should I stay? I know you know New York. I'd be like, yeah, Marina, knowing you, what I would say is that this hotel's great, but you walk out, it's a little seedy. And this other one's right next to Whole Foods. And I

know you like to run every day or something like that. And this is actually right near a park. And also, you want to get to the studio a little early, but guess what? There's a subway that takes you there in five minutes. You

don't have to be next door. You're going to want to be here. It's just,

it'll inspire. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's a wildly different result because of that. And that's the thing. People are using it just as a search, like

of that. And that's the thing. People are using it just as a search, like a command response, walk away. And one thing on that, our brains have trouble because it looks like a search engine. And so your brain treats it like a search engine. In the same way, if we saw a baby sitting right here in our

engine. In the same way, if we saw a baby sitting right here in our podcast studio, which would be phenomenal, by the way, you'd automatically talk to it like a baby. You wouldn't think, how do I talk to this thing, right? You just

a baby. You wouldn't think, how do I talk to this thing, right? You just

do it instinctively. But that's the thing when your brain sees something like a chat, GBT, it's actually literally, this is our research, it literally looks like a search engine.

So your brain literally goes into that mode, command response, walk away, which hotel should I use? Which, instead of, hey, this is your friend that you're texting. And then

I use? Which, instead of, hey, this is your friend that you're texting. And then

instead of command response, walk away. You'd never do that if you had Jeff Bezos in the room and you were asking him a question, you'd have a conversation. And

so that's what you have to overcome. That's why we call it a mindset. It's

literally things in your brain you have to overcome. Yeah, it's a friend or now for me, it's more like a coach. Yes. Like a professional coach that has access to all the information, something that Jeff Bezos was advised by his career coach. And

I just asked them. It's phenomenal. But that's the thing, because again, that turns it into a conversation. But why is it hard? So I think that, you know, in terms of getting hyper, hyper practical here, because we can say all we want, like, oh, just talk to it like a person. But that's like saying, just eat less than exercise. There's a reason why we can't just eat. Maybe you can. I have

than exercise. There's a reason why we can't just eat. Maybe you can. I have

a hard time with eating less than exercise. But why do we have a problem with like, Getting on a treadmill. We have a problem getting on a treadmill because our brain prioritizes quick rewards and conserving energy, and a treadmill doesn't do those things.

So it actually has nothing to do with the treadmill or how many features a treadmill has. It has everything to do with why our brain stops us. Same thing

treadmill has. It has everything to do with why our brain stops us. Same thing

here. This is our research that we uncovered over two years here, is that it's not that people don't want to treat it like a human or don't see the value in it. It's that your brain is actually literally doing something where it's treating it like a search engine because of how neural pathways and automation work in your brain. And that's why we have to come up with new paradigms and frameworks to

brain. And that's why we have to come up with new paradigms and frameworks to get people through that. What if Conor's one piece of advice to shift your mindset, redesign habits, started with the right tool? Our biggest problem was simple. Too

many creative people with too many brilliant ideas. We are a production team that runs on brainstorms. Case studies, interview concepts, story angles, potential guests, ideas come at us from every direction and honestly, it used to be absolute chaos. Different notes on different people's computers. Messy boards that looked more like abstract art than action plans. And

then came the worst part, spending hours manually turning all that creative energy into an actual work plan. Here's the thing, we can Kept losing context between steps, great ideas would just vanish. And then we tried Mirror Flows. Here's what happened. We

did our usual chaotic brainstorm, threw everything on the canvas, all our raw ideas, and then Flows turned that mess into a structured, strategic document in literally one minute.

But here's when it gets better. That document became a living product roadmap. As the

new interviews got scheduled, flows automatically updated the timeline. When a case study got approved, it flows straight into our production calendar. Guest confirmations instantly synced with our content pipeline. We weren't just organizing ideas, we built a system that keeps organizing itself. The

pipeline. We weren't just organizing ideas, we built a system that keeps organizing itself. The

entire workflow from brainstorm to published content now runs through connected workflows.

No blank prompts, no switching tools. Flows just take what's already on our board and all that context we've built and transform it into the next steps of our project.

Each one flows into the other because the entire canvas is the prompt. We used

to take hours of manual work, now happens automatically. And because we can save these flows as templates, we're not starting from zero anymore. Same brilliant chaos, but now it actually goes somewhere. If your team has more ideas than structure, try flows in Miro.

Your future self will thank you. And let's return to our discussion about integrating new tools into your daily routine. So the tools change so rapidly, right? Like you were just saying. I know. And how do you keep up with that? Okay. And I'm

just saying. I know. And how do you keep up with that? Okay. And I'm

so glad you said that because you know what? I would say to people out there, you don't have to keep up with it, right? Like you kind of do because you have this. I kind of do because of my world. But I mean, 99.9% of the population doesn't. Why? Because the things that just came out like literally like last night, right? Like, or, you know, or the day before, whatever it is,

it's, you know, Gemini, it's cloud 4.5, it's chat, you know, 5.2. The difference of what that gives you is not significant to 99.9% of the population, right? Because again,

we don't need 14 PhDs in our pockets. You don't need anything like that. And

so when I think about even something like Excel, even something like that, what I tell people is don't worry about the tool. The tool is gonna be fine. In

the same way, you know, you don't have to buy the best treadmill out there.

You just have to put on running shoes and go outside. Now that's hard because of how our brain functions and what our brain prioritizes just through our limbic system.

But when I think about, okay, practically speaking, let's say you have to do this task and you're thinking, well, what's going to do that? Like I have to build a spreadsheet. What? Or I have to build a slide deck. What's going to do

a spreadsheet. What? Or I have to build a slide deck. What's going to do best on that? What I would say to people, especially as a starting point, but even if you feel like you're pretty confident, don't worry about the tool that's going to do it the best. Think about your process, right? So just to give you a quick example, if I could. So I was working with the CEO of a

big business. bank here in New York City. And he was asking me like, well,

big business. bank here in New York City. And he was asking me like, well, can it help me determine whether we should open an office in Denver? I was

like, well, not really, because it's not a good answer machine. It's a good process machine. He's like, oh, it's kind of what I need. I'm like, OK, but hold

machine. He's like, oh, it's kind of what I need. I'm like, OK, but hold on. Let's talk about how would you do that? So he's like, well, here's the

on. Let's talk about how would you do that? So he's like, well, here's the process I would take without AI. And every step of that process, there were probably 12. I was like, OK, here's how AI helps you here. Here's how AI helps

12. I was like, OK, here's how AI helps you here. Here's how AI helps you here. So it's really about breaking down rather than getting an answer Think about

you here. So it's really about breaking down rather than getting an answer Think about your process and just have AI walk you through and help you through each step of that process. You just basically upload the process into ChatGPT. That's exactly. And the

same thing like with slide decks. How long have people been whining about it doesn't create like amazing slide decks? It's like, yeah, man, that's your job. That's why you get paid. Like don't offload that. Instead say, hey, this is the message I'm trying

get paid. Like don't offload that. Instead say, hey, this is the message I'm trying to create. ChatGPT, help me. What should I put generally on every slide? It's like

to create. ChatGPT, help me. What should I put generally on every slide? It's like

this. Okay, what do you think would be impactful as a visual? This kind of thing. And then go and build the slide. And you just go to Gamma. Gamma

thing. And then go and build the slide. And you just go to Gamma. Gamma

does beautiful presentations. Gamma, Nano Banana now. There's a ton. Beautify, there's a ton of slide deck things. But ultimately, it's your process that this is going to help. What

are your top three tools that you use? Okay. So in switching order, because these things always switch, I would say I just love Claude 4.5 Opus. I think it's a really powerful writer. I love Gemini 3 as just a deep, deep thinking tool.

I think it's phenomenal. It also integrates with all my Google stuff best. ChatGPT is

my everyday, it kind of had replaced Google for me. Like if I just have a question like, wait, what is this again? How long does an oak tree live?

I don't know why I'm asking that. But like it's, ChatGPT is my great sort of like, go to. And then Copilot, like when I'm working with a lot of companies on Copilot, we do tons of Copilot integrations. Copilot's getting smarter and smarter and smarter. So those are kind of like, sorry, I gave you four, but those are

smarter. So those are kind of like, sorry, I gave you four, but those are the four that I'm kind of switching between every day. But basically you're using the LLMs, right, of the world, not like specific smaller apps. I really like that. And

here's the reason why. And it's even the reason why I answer that way when people ask, because there's maybe a couple of tools that I use. But the problem is in the history of technology, we're always looking for sort of like the better thing, right? It's like, well, so – because I get asked all the time, like,

thing, right? It's like, well, so – because I get asked all the time, like, well, what's better? You know, Claude, Chagipity. I'm like, it's not relevant. It's sort of like saying, well, is this – you know, $900 bottle of wine better than this, $800, I don't know, like I have no idea because your taste buds only go up to like $80, well, maybe not yours, but mine, right? So point is, it

doesn't matter which one is better, it matters which one feels more comfortable, natural with what you're doing and where are you going. And so when we over index on like the specific tool, like some of these, you know, slide deck tools, even though they're great, I would say, Get used to having this companion because that companion is going to get you. Sorry, one other thing I do a lot with law firms.

With law firms, I'm like, well, what's the best legal tech? I'm like, I think they're all pretty good. But what if you just had a companion through ChatGBT or Gemini or Claude that was just helping you and you could just talk to it?

Then it's not about what treadmill is better. It's are you putting on running shoes and getting out there? Yeah. I love that. And also, with LLMs getting better and better, it's just you keep coming back to them. Yeah, 100%. Do you have a tip for, for example, like ChatGPT knows a lot about my queries, because I also use it as Google. I feel like the reason is because the output is so

well structured, even compared to Gemini, I just love when it gives me bullet points and bold text and emojis. It's just the visual part. I think they nailed it.

How do you transfer from, do you say Claude is amazing? Now I want to try it for writing. How do you transfer all the knowledge from ChatGPT to Claude?

I think these tools are so good now that, you can actually transfer pretty easily.

So now I have kind of like co-CEOs for AI Mindset in Claude, Gemini, and ChatGPT. And the way I did that was ChatGPT essentially like knew everything about me,

ChatGPT. And the way I did that was ChatGPT essentially like knew everything about me, right? Because you're talking about the memory, it's so powerful. So what I asked ChatGPT

right? Because you're talking about the memory, it's so powerful. So what I asked ChatGPT was, listen, create like a 10-page document on like everything you know about, but you're like really distilling it down to the essentials. Like what do I like? How do

I think? Like what do I like? What do I like in outputs? All that

kind of stuff. And then I just take that and I toss it into Gemini and Gemini gets it right away. Claude gets it right away. So you can almost transfer your memory over to each single one. And that is the really powerful thing to me. I love that. Have you, do you have any queries that people would

to me. I love that. Have you, do you have any queries that people would want to use, especially towards the end of the year? You know, I was just interviewing the founder of Opus Clip and he told me this, uh, query that he uses. He asked Chad, GBT or whatever. I think he was using Gemini. Um, if

uses. He asked Chad, GBT or whatever. I think he was using Gemini. Um, if

you could give me advice six months ago, based on my queries in the past six months, what, that advice would be. And I asked my chat GPT and my chat GPT was like, Marina, you're trying to control everything in your life. Like you're

trying to control your kids, your dog, your business. You need to chill. And that

was like, yeah. Yeah. And like, let's, let's build a strategy for 2026 based on this. Do you have anything like this that's super powerful because your LLM has the memory about you? When you tell your large language model, I say it almost in every prompt just to make sure I'm like, push back, push back, push back. Because it pushes back in, okay, I'm anthropomorphizing, but it pushes back. Don't

push back. Because it pushes back in, okay, I'm anthropomorphizing, but it pushes back. Don't

you find it kind of pushes back lovingly and empathetically? It's probably, because it's not saying like, Marina, you idiot. It's probably saying like, Marina, you're doing a lot of stuff, right? It's always, it's the nicest person. Marina, you're so amazing. Isn't it the

stuff, right? It's always, it's the nicest person. Marina, you're so amazing. Isn't it the best? Everybody's like the syncophancy don't. I'm like, I love that part. You're now used

best? Everybody's like the syncophancy don't. I'm like, I love that part. You're now used to it. You're like, you expect everyone to treat you that way. Oh my God.

to it. You're like, you expect everyone to treat you that way. Oh my God.

We can learn a lot from AI, I think, but It's that empathetic behaving thing.

Obviously, it's not intrinsically empathetic, but it is empathetic behaving. And so for me, the things that I put in there are a couple of things. First of all, feel free to push back because I'm not going to get defensive. And I know it's not sort of like a dead thing, but it's going to really help me. So

that other things I use all the time is just like, just make this more readable. How am I thinking? And then the biggest thing I did this in, so

readable. How am I thinking? And then the biggest thing I did this in, so I just did masterclass, if you know the brand masterclass. So the thing I was doing in masterclass a lot, this idea of never stop Because why do we stop working? We stop working because I cannot bear to do another draft or I can't

working? We stop working because I cannot bear to do another draft or I can't bear to think through this one more time. But you don't have to. You can

just say, how would I make this better? What am I missing? What am I missing? Like five times in a row, it's not gonna get worse. Or as soon

missing? Like five times in a row, it's not gonna get worse. Or as soon as it does, you're like, okay, we'll come back to this, come back to this.

So I would say the biggest things are, first of all, always create your first draft and have it edit, make it more readable. But the biggest thing, I love Opus Clubs, by the way, I love that you interviewed him, is kind of toward the end of the year. Remember that your brain instinctively will say, Connor, don't do any more work. You're exhausted. That's instinctive. You have to retrain it to say, just

do this again. What's better? What am I missing? What am I missing? That's the

real power. I love that. When it comes to misinformation, right? Cause we go to AI for so many questions and I notice sometimes that if I'm just, especially when I'm in a single thread, like doing all my queries and then ask like a therapy question, And the answer is like, no, I would never do that.

How do you deal with that? Because I think Mustafa mentioned that 60% of copilot AI queries are medical. And they connected Harvard database to make sure the answers are correct. But do you ever go to ChatGPT for I don't know, financial advice. How

correct. But do you ever go to ChatGPT for I don't know, financial advice. How

should I restructure my portfolio? Would you trust AI with that? I think one of the mistakes people make, especially around hallucinations and especially around, well, you know, AI, I'm not going to trust it because it gets it wrong. Like humans hallucinate too, right?

Humans get things wrong too. So what we always say, or I always say sort of on our team when we're working with these organizations is it's not a calculator.

Like if your calculator gave you a wrong answer, you'd throw it, it'd be like smoking and burning up, right? You'd throw it away. But if a person came on and they were brilliant, they didn't know much about your company, but they were absolutely brilliant. You could, Trust is maybe the wrong word, but they're clearly doing amazing work

brilliant. You could, Trust is maybe the wrong word, but they're clearly doing amazing work product. You still wouldn't just say like, hey, do this task for me and then,

product. You still wouldn't just say like, hey, do this task for me and then, you know, go off and do it. Like, no, you'd refine it with them. You'd

go back and forth with them, et cetera. You'd sort of like teach them a little bit. You'd say like, ah, I like that, but I don't like that. So

little bit. You'd say like, ah, I like that, but I don't like that. So

what is the difference here? The difference is it's really acting like a human. That's

number one. So if a human gives you medical advice, if your friend is like, oh, that, you know, burn on your arm looks like this. All right, is that person a dermatologist or are they not a dermatologist? And so if they're not, and it's important, I'm gonna fact check it. The example sometimes I use is that a lot of things that work, you don't have to have exact precision. A lot of

it's just brainstorming. How should I think about this? But if you are gonna go and meet like, you know, the chief marketing officer at Morgan Stanley, and you want some conversation starters, and your friend's like, oh, I think I read somewhere that, You know, he's really into like balloon animals or something like that. You'd be like, oh, I'll bring on my balloon. Right. You better get that right. Otherwise, like you are

screwed. Yeah. So if you need accuracy, double check it. How do you double check?

screwed. Yeah. So if you need accuracy, double check it. How do you double check?

You just copy the answer from ChatGPT to Claude and ask it to double check?

I do, but I don't even put it into another AI. If I really need something that I need to be right, I go to Google search. I go to the source, or I ask somebody or something like that. If you need something to be absolutely precise, you're fixing a thing on an airplane, holding the propeller. I don't

know why you or I would be doing that, but if it's that... You know

that I'm going to go to the actual manual. I'm never going to rely on chat GPT for something critical. Yeah, that makes sense. Do you think with all of that, like we're going to chat for all our queries, do you think we're losing memorization critical skills? Okay. Here's the thing. You have kids, I think, right? Like I

have kids. They're in high school. They're a little further than yours. And we do a lot with education. My son is 16, about to be 17. He and I do a lot of like teaching together. We've taught it. some amazing places and done keynotes together around this. Cause I think people keep expecting him to say, Hey, everybody needs to use, he's a junior in high school. Everybody needs to use AI. And

in a way he's right in a way I'm right too. When I say that in another way, I mean, it does, don't you think like it kind of, it can really destroy critical thinking. I absolutely believe that. And that's, that's hard. Cause how

do you be such a, how are you such an optimist about something that can destroy critical thinking? I guess what I would say is this technology is here. And

a lot of technologies have, you know, done away with what we would think are critical thinking, skills and things like that. This is a new one. So if people are only using it to just get answers, it's sort of like, remember like Cliff Notes and Spark Notes, stuff like that? There's two ways to use that, right? There's

either, hey, like, you know, I don't have time to read Hamlet. I'm just going to use this. But then that really diminishes your critical thinking, which is going to matter when you get out into the working world and everything else. School matters for a reason. Or you use it as hey, what's a new way of looking at

a reason. Or you use it as hey, what's a new way of looking at this? What am I not seeing? Like, I didn't understand that scene three, act four,

this? What am I not seeing? Like, I didn't understand that scene three, act four, like in this, like, and it's an amazing tool then, right? Now your critical thinking is getting even deeper and deeper and deeper. It's a personalized learning assistant. So it

can help. It's really up to the individual. So it gets to the whole question of how do we switch, how do we like change education? But it's not just, does it kill critical thinking or does it not? But I think you're right. It

can. So how do we prevent that? So you have two kids. What are you telling them about the future of the world powered by AI? What Should they be learning and what skills are becoming obsolete? I mean, you and I live in this world, right? And we're watching it every day. And it is very hard to tell

world, right? And we're watching it every day. And it is very hard to tell what's going away and what's staying. You can kind of tell in the short term, but we could never have predicted where we are right now either. So it's easy to say to people, oh, we need like adaptability. We need curiosity. But it drives me a little nuts when people say that because what does that mean? Like we

were talking before we came on here, right? About like, Practical, right? Practical is always more interesting. And I hate when people are just like, oh, you know, just be

more interesting. And I hate when people are just like, oh, you know, just be more curious. I'm like, how do you tell somebody to be more curious? So what

more curious. I'm like, how do you tell somebody to be more curious? So what

I tell, you know, our kids and what I, it's kind of the same thing I tell at scale, tens of thousands of people in one single organization, which is, it doesn't matter if you're curious or not. Like you can behave in a curious way. And so what does that look like? let's give you some steps first understand

way. And so what does that look like? let's give you some steps first understand sort of again like what we do which is like what is the brain malfunctioning here like what are these three paradigms what are these steps all that kind of stuff and take them through what it's not and what it is and then say just lean into what you are passionate about and i don't mean that as a

pithy kind of like oh do what you love because i actually don't believe that i come from a business school we don't tend to work in that way but what i do think is that no matter what you do ai can enhance it and come up with a new way of doing this this is what's so interesting about this technology, is that the history of technology has been the creators of the

technology or the service have always defined what the role, like if you invented the computer, you know that we need silicone chips and keyboards and delivery mechanisms. But that's not the case anymore. The leaders of, certainly OpenAI, Anthropik, everywhere else, they don't know, right? The leaders of companies, they don't know. The only people that are gonna be

right? The leaders of companies, they don't know. The only people that are gonna be able to figure it out is from the bottom up, right? People who's in, somebody who's in a job, Really getting fluent on this, really shifting their behavior, not just telling some, you know, somebody telling them use some new tools, shifting their behavior and then looking at what they do every day, their bottlenecks and working with AI to

really innovate dramatically on what that person individual does. That's why it's so critical to upskill entire organizations. And I kind of say the same thing to the kids. It's

like all these, all these jobs are still going to be around. Maybe there's fewer of them. But if you can reinvent a way of doing things with AI, you're

of them. But if you can reinvent a way of doing things with AI, you're gold. Because nobody knows. Because nobody knows. Yeah, it's what I'm realizing. The more I'm

gold. Because nobody knows. Because nobody knows. Yeah, it's what I'm realizing. The more I'm talking to people, nobody knows. Nobody knows. Nobody understands. And it's up to you to come up with an idea and say, like, hey, I think this is the right way to do this. Exactly. And if it's a good idea, people will listen. 100%.

Have you seen how hiring is changing with AI? Because a lot of people are struggling to find jobs, especially entry level. Like I think AI eliminated 30%. It's like

it's a big number. Yeah. I mean, the potential is there to eliminate that, right?

And that's where all these new sort of statistics around what these models can do is fascinating. I know Dario Amadei over at Anthropic said exactly this. He's like, look,

is fascinating. I know Dario Amadei over at Anthropic said exactly this. He's like, look, even if the technology doesn't change from today, it can still wipe out 25% of entry level white collar workforce call it. So when I'm looking across like the whole spectrum, I don't see it happening yet necessarily. What I do see is the potential is there. And that's a pretty big difference, right? So like right now, where AI

is there. And that's a pretty big difference, right? So like right now, where AI is right now, even if it didn't advance for the next 10 years, which is obviously not gonna happen, if people were using it correctly, you can take these teams of 10 people and probably reduce it down to two people. So it's not that you can get rid of everybody, but just that one person can do way more

work. Now, here's the really hard part, right, is that the work that it can

work. Now, here's the really hard part, right, is that the work that it can do is sort of like entry-level work. But then how do those entry-level people then learn how to do those skills so that they can kind of like go and become managers, et cetera, et cetera? That is unbelievably hard. I'm not sure how to solve that problem. But what we do know is it's not about getting rid of

your people and replacing with AI. That can't happen for the very simple reason that AI doesn't know what quality it looks like. AI can do a tremendous amount. And

the answers are in there. But if you and I were sort of, you know, if you were a marketer and I wasn't and we both used ChatGPT in 20 minutes to come up with a new shoe brand, mine would look great, right? Because

I went from nothing to this shoe. But you as a marketer, I know that's not your background maybe, but this idea is because you know what quality looks like, you'll produce something extraordinary because you know how to steer it. You know what's right and wrong, et cetera. So we still need people with domain expertise everywhere. We probably

realistically just need fewer. But I'll also say that companies have been very slow to change their hiring processes. Any advice for people who are struggling to get hired? Yeah,

I do, actually. And being at NYU Stern at the business school, this has been my passion for the last 12 years, which is how do people get hired? It's

actually one of the big reasons I went to Stern in the first place is that, like, doesn't that just break your heart when people are struggling to find work, right? And with AI, I think that we're in a zone right now where the

right? And with AI, I think that we're in a zone right now where the opportunity is absolutely colossal for this reason. It requires understanding AI and really using AI well is – is an incredible tool because you don't have to learn anything.

You don't need to be a coder, you don't need to be anything. Literally all

you need to be able to do is talk like a human and everybody can do that, that's number one. But number two, and this is the really important thing, it's not enough to just go into a job interview and say, I know how to use AI, because everybody can say that. And it's sort of like Excel thing, everybody uses it, but people are using it to make a grocery list or something

like that, not to transform how a hedge fund operates. So what does that actually look like? So we actually have a course, right, this Generative AI for Professionals, helps

look like? So we actually have a course, right, this Generative AI for Professionals, helps give people this exact skill, not just reinventing how they work. Cause that's not the Holy grail to me. The Holy grail is, can you invent the work of everybody around you? So if you go into a job interview, and this is what I

around you? So if you go into a job interview, and this is what I tell everybody to do, go into a job interview prepared with what they do. What

are the, like they'll have given you a sense of what you should do. So

go in there and say like, Hey, here's my domain expertise, but let me just show you what I would do with AI and how I would reinvent this process because folks, and you know this too, right? Anyone can do this with Claw Gemini Chachupiti, you don't have to come up with it. You just have to monitor and steer it. So say, here's how I would change this role to even potentially put

steer it. So say, here's how I would change this role to even potentially put me out of a job, right? I mean, senior leaders would love that, but here's the really holy grail. This is the kicker on all this. This is the kicker.

It's such a Chachupiti thing to say, my gosh, I take it back. But here's

the really important thing. Say, and here's how the team can use this in a very different way. Here's the exact workflow. Here's what I would change. Here's how I would think about it. Because we want to upskill a team. You don't want to just hire somebody to come in and do AI differently. You want somebody to come in and change the way it's done around that person. That, to me, is the

holy grail. I love that. And it's the whole business opportunity. When I look at,

holy grail. I love that. And it's the whole business opportunity. When I look at, like, all of the brick-and-mortar business, even, like, tech businesses, there's so much difference. could

be done? So much. For someone who wants to start a business, where do you see the most opportunity? I almost think starting a business is your best bet right now. Don't you? Kind of, right? I've heard so many people say in two years,

now. Don't you? Kind of, right? I've heard so many people say in two years, you're either an entrepreneur or you're dead. Right? I mean, don't you think that though?

Because think about it in two ways. First of all, we have no idea where this thing is going to poke its head. In other words, we have no idea if it's just going to wipe out marketing or something. We have no idea if it's going to wipe out writing or coding. We don't know. And it's not because the tool can't do it. It's because we don't know how fast the world around

us will adopt to that tool. So given that nobody knows, not even Sam Altman or Dario Amadei or anybody else, or you, Ramir, you had Mustafa Suleiman on the other day, phenomenal interview you did with him. He doesn't know either, right? So if

these people don't know, then how can anybody know? So here's what I would say.

Being an entrepreneur, even if you're an entrepreneur alongside with what you're doing, I kind of call it the parallel resume. Do both, right? If you care about this, Gary Vaynerchuk has a great thing on this where he's like, work the extra hours. Like

I know nobody wants to hear it, but work the extra hours. But here's how you do it. You build something that you think can transform how your team was already doing that work. In other words, once you sort of like create a process for people, that's what people want. They don't want just like somebody who can do AI because they're That it's, people don't always recognize it. It's sort of linear in

the amount of growth you can provide for an organization. But if you're an entrepreneur, this is how I started. I'm not sure how you started, but certainly in this field for me, I just created a framework like, well, what do I think is missing from how AI is taught? And I just started going out, talking to a million people, testing it out, testing it out, testing it out. And then finally, it's

like, somebody's like, you know, if you come and give a workshop at our asset management firm, like, you know, how much do you charge? And I named like some crazy amount. They're like, okay, great. I'm like, really? Like, so, but it's, right, exactly.

crazy amount. They're like, okay, great. I'm like, really? Like, so, but it's, right, exactly.

But here's the thing. It doesn't have to be an AI. Like if you can use AI to come up with a new kind of marketing or a new kind of operations or a new kind of legal or something like that, people are looking for those narrow use cases that can be expanded to others that are repeatable.

I think it's the best time ever to be an entrepreneur. It's all about strategy, right? And even like what I see, I have 35 people on my team and

right? And even like what I see, I have 35 people on my team and I see all of them as entrepreneurs. Some of them have multiple clients, right? It's

not just they're working for me. you can be an entrepreneur within your workplace because you are reinventing the process. And then a lot of companies are now hiring abroad. And like there are people who are marketers, but they do marketing for multiple

abroad. And like there are people who are marketers, but they do marketing for multiple companies because they build a process that works for them. It's just such a fascinating time. This is the perfect way to say it. You could be an entrepreneur inside

time. This is the perfect way to say it. You could be an entrepreneur inside of your organization in a way that you never could before. And why is that?

Because, and they've proven this out a million different ways with, uh, Harvard Business School did this with Procter & Gamble. They're showing that one person can essentially create a synthetic team around them. So what's always holding back entrepreneurs? Well, I don't know how to code. I don't know how to market. I don't know how to do operations,

to code. I don't know how to market. I don't know how to do operations, legal, whatever it is. Or I'm not a good leader. All of a sudden, you have these AIs that can be a great proxy for that. Is it perfect? No,

it's not perfect. But imagine where you were before. And so what that means is that inside of your company, you can reinvent a process. Now, here's what I recommend people do. Reinventing a process gets noticed way more than you just doing more work.

people do. Reinventing a process gets noticed way more than you just doing more work.

right? Reinventing a process. 100%. Right? And if you say, hey, we have, because now all of a sudden they're tracking ROI. But even more than that, reinvent the process and then show how you can share it with others. Show how you can make it repeatable. I was working with this big private, I do a lot with private

it repeatable. I was working with this big private, I do a lot with private equity, and the head of this private equity firm was saying, hey, we have five guys on this team. We're going to invite two more analysts to join that team.

But I told these five people, if you can do this work without those two, I'll give you the money. And which is a great way to sort of like drive innovation in a way. But what I would also say in a what I said to him is, that's not the holy grail. The holy, because they'll just come up with a system that works for them. They have to come up with a

system that's kind of agnostic to who would use it. They have to come up with a system, a process that's repeatable for everybody else. You are now in an organization, wherever you are, in a corporation, sitting out there somewhere, working on a process.

That's gonna be your IP. Figure out how to do that process better with AI.

Start repeating it across the organization. That will get noticed. And then what I would say, and you'd probably say too, right? Go off and start a little side gig.

Talk about becoming a chief AI architect of your company. Isn't that a great title?

I love that title. And also, like, as a founder, I want that to happen.

I want one of my managers to come up and say, like, hey, I don't want to do this manually anymore. I came up with a process. AI is going to do that for me. I'm the test maker. I'm just going to curate whatever AI is creating. That's where I want it. And I love that you said this because you were at, like – You are a manager. You are a leader. And

for that coming out of your mouth to say, that's what I want. I'm trying

to tell people that all the time. Like senior leaders want that from their people.

Absolutely. We don't want... We senior... No, no, you're right though. You're right. I mean,

I don't want people to just spend hours of their days coming up with what AI can do. I want them to become managers. 100%. Yeah, that's awesome. Okay. What

do you think is going to happen as someone from NYU? What's going to happen to universities? Do you think in 10 years... Do I need to be saving for

to universities? Do you think in 10 years... Do I need to be saving for my kids college? Or that's obsolete by then. It drives me crazy when people are saying like, oh, there won't be universities. I'm sure that we have said that throughout history. I mean, Harvard is older than the United States itself. NYU has been around

history. I mean, Harvard is older than the United States itself. NYU has been around for a long time. Universities are not going away because they don't just do one thing, right? Like if universities were simply you go and you press a button and

thing, right? Like if universities were simply you go and you press a button and you matrixed something into the back of your skull and all of a sudden you had that knowledge, okay, that's one thing. But that's not what teaching is. I mean,

like right now, AI can absolutely, first grade through 12th grade, it knows all that information better than any teacher we have, right? So why do we still have schools?

We have schools because schools more than that. Universities are more than that. Universities are

where you meet people, where you exchange ideas, where you actually sort of like bounce things off people who have really lived that experience, where you become, you know, an adult and all this kind of stuff. It's not a transactional thing. Now, if we're just talking about like online school, Yeah, I kind of think AI can very easily replace a lot of online school, absolutely. And I don't mean like, you know, zooming

into a class. I mean, just like something where it's like, we get this. Like

courses. Yeah, exactly. We're already seeing that. Courses. Because why? Because all of a sudden you're going from just like a course and think about how teachers have to teach just by nature of how the human brain is structured. You have to go to the lowest common denominator when you're teaching 25 people. You can't take every single kid and understand exactly what each one of them needs. But AI kind of can, to

your point about memory earlier, right? So yeah, universities are here to stay. I think

that there's going to be definitely a scythe that takes out kind of like the middle structure of universities. We probably don't need so many. But yeah, there's, I mean, hundreds, a thousand universities that will still remain because of everything they offer to the human experience. Yeah, I love that. My last question is, what type of change influenced

human experience. Yeah, I love that. My last question is, what type of change influenced by AI do you want to witness in your life so you can say, yes, we did it? Ooh, that's a good one. So for me, so... I and my son, too, and my daughter, we go out to Nepal every year. We have a kind of a history of going to Nepal and teaching AI in schools and in

nonprofits and things like that. And I've lived in Nepal for a while, and I've seen in a country like that, which is one of the poorer countries in the world, what AI can do for those individuals gives me goosebumps literally right now, right?

Because if you think about it, they don't have tutors, right? You and I can afford tutors for our kids probably, right? Like they can't. do that. They can't even, like I've seen the schools, they're how the schools work. Now all of a sudden they have something on their phone that can be this incredible tutor. And education, it's not a silver bullet, but holy cow, does it really progress a nation. Same with

medical. So I spend a lot of time in very remote areas where there's no roads or anything like that. And this idea in those areas is if you cut yourself or if you have something on your skin or if you have symptoms or something, all of a sudden now everyone with a mobile phone, they do have mobile phones, has access to something resembling a doctor. Is it as perfect as a doctor?

No, absolutely not. And you have to check it in as a risk. Yes, of

course, all the disclaimers. But going with your kid is sick and your kid is coughing, like you have kids, right? I have kids. Like what's worse than when your kid is sick? You just want an answer. And so all of a sudden you have these people who live in these very remote areas have answers that they can help their kids. That to me is where I want to go. That's why to

me it's more than just like, oh, let's sort of see how we can get corporate America to make more money. That's great because I profit from that. We all

profit from that. We're all having a good time with it. But like for me, it's like it's humanity. And I really mean that. Like there's an incredible things that we can do with humanity. And I'm dying to see that change. Oh, my God.

I love it. Thank you so much, Connor. It was amazing. Very practical. We love

that. Thank you. Thank you for having me. That was a really fun conversation. Thanks

a lot.