Cupsey & Jack Duval on Memecoins, Crypto's Future, and More | TG Podcast

Welcome. Okay, I'm going to just pick up on the topic you just asked me about and then we could just like get into it. I

don't you don't have to do an intro.

Everybody knows you. Um, okay. The one

problem I have with the marketing thing is like, okay, you generally high level I super agreed there was just like a

missed opportunity here for Pump Fun in particular, for Axiom, for Moonshot.

It's like all these [ __ ] platforms have legitimately billions of dollars, deep nine figures, and they spent none of it onboarding anyone. Like that to me was just like a foundational miss. Uh

because there was a time where they would have came in groves. Um by the way, Chad, he was muted, but I fixed it.

They would have came in Groves. Um the

problem with it right now, and I think at a high level, is that you get onboarded into prediction markets, right? You see a poly, you see a TJR

right? You see a poly, you see a TJR post about poly market, you're like, "Fuck it. I'm going to go try Poly

"Fuck it. I'm going to go try Poly Market. You hop on Poly Market. Compare

Market. You hop on Poly Market. Compare

it to memecoins at a baseline. You jump

on Poly Market and there are markets that make sense. Maybe you're a sports guy. Maybe you you you know you're deep

guy. Maybe you you you know you're deep in politics. You're betting on, you

in politics. You're betting on, you know, Mom Donnie Mayatorial election.

What whatever it is, there's markets that make sense that feel comfortable and that you aren't going to just snap by, lose everything. One of the problems with memecoins, I think a lot of people, my minority friends, they heard about pump fun. And so if you get to the point

pump fun. And so if you get to the point where you Google pumpf fun and then you click on the [ __ ] website and it pops up into your face, you're like, "What the [ __ ] is this? This is a complete

mess. I don't even This is It's

mess. I don't even This is It's cryptonatives get it, but this is a complete disaster." And even if I did

complete disaster." And even if I did try and go a step further, the first thing you're buying is just going it's going to zero. Cups selling 9%. It's

going to zero. And you're out like real Poly Market. You're not out in 30

Poly Market. You're not out in 30 seconds. Meme coins are done in 30

seconds. Meme coins are done in 30 seconds on trade number one. And I think the same thing is true with sports betting. And so I think there's a lot of

betting. And so I think there's a lot of people and Cubsy, I'll go right to you on this maybe. There's a lot of people that have their first touch point with crypto and they lose it all so fast that

they're like, I don't even want to touch this. Whereas that's not happening with

this. Whereas that's not happening with prediction markets and that's not definitely not happening with sports betting.

>> I got a lot of take Cubsy can go first and I'll give my takes on this because I got a lot to say to to that. I mean, I guess I could see where you're coming from with, you know, people coming in

and getting rinsed so fast, but >> there's Cubsy. They're trading against you're

Cubsy. They're trading against you're the counterparty on these coins, >> bro.

>> It's not It's not even me anymore, bro.

It's It's like these guys that are >> It's Boogie P.

>> 10 different 10 different wallets, bro.

>> I I used to get hated on for, you know, trading with one wallet, buying 5%, whatever. Now, now people are using 10

whatever. Now, now people are using 10 wallets, buying 30%. It's it's it's a lot worse now.

>> Jack, go ahead.

>> I mean, I >> Oh, my fault. My fault.

>> Okay. So, so here's my take. So, I'm

going address a couple things you said.

So, first off, you talked about essentially you're talking about well, you touched on two different things.

First off, the like the amount of tokens or like what the what the markets are.

It's not as familiar as like Poly Market, right? So, you mentioned that

Market, right? So, you mentioned that and then you're also kind of talking about like I would say the UI of like Pump Fun and these terminals and whatever. It can be very overwhelming

whatever. It can be very overwhelming and be confusing. So let me that part 100% agree. Absolutely. I remember my

100% agree. Absolutely. I remember my first like when I first got into the space and I got on Pump Fund for the first time and I that was my reaction. I

was like what the [ __ ] is this? Like

people were telling me they're like dude this is like a hundred million like multiund million dollar company. They

make so much money. I'm like who?

Pumpin. I look it up and I mean it looks like 4chan. I'm like what the [ __ ] is

like 4chan. I'm like what the [ __ ] is this? Like this is

this? Like this is >> what right?

>> 100% agree. Now, what I will say though in terms of the markets themselves, which really you just mean like the coins themselves and like the the the the things that they can buy, what they're seeing does not make sense to

them. What I would argue is that I feel

them. What I would argue is that I feel like the markets adapt to the demographics. meaning like when I first

demographics. meaning like when I first got in the space I remember in um like I mentioned November and whatever and through December and it's like not just chill guy and whatever like there was so

many like I remember for example it was like Mike Tyson and like Jake Paul fighting and there was like Mike Ty you remember that was like Mike Tyson coin and he had like his ass out and whatever and they like I intuitively understood it like I just immediately understood it

and then of course we the celebrity stuff and the Trump stuff but there was so many things it was so intuitive I had zero problem understanding uh narratives and whatever and because it reflect there was so much retail

coming in and it reflected the demographics. Now now there's no retail

demographics. Now now there's no retail here and like all the coins it's like vaporware AI shitty tweets random like people that only a CT person would know

like it so it's very but that represents the demographics. I would argue I think

the demographics. I would argue I think that if you had a big influx of retail demographics that the markets as you say would kind of more reflect that and it would be a little bit more intuitive.

But I do agree with you the UI is asset needs to change.

>> One throwback or like counter I guess is that when there was like when the Mike Tyson all this was happening and there was like viral narrative converted to coin going

up. It was like a different time in the

up. It was like a different time in the market, right? there was just so much

market, right? there was just so much more money here. And so you look at it now and it's like, okay, if you're a believer and you've been holding out belief that mainstream narrative going

viral is good for meme coins, you got to just give it up after 67, right?

>> Inability to you got to just give it up after that, right?

>> Yeah, that that one is completely sad.

Me and Jack were talking about that not too long ago. Like how long has it been out? Two months. And that [ __ ] has

out? Two months. And that [ __ ] has 12,000 holders. Like if you like look at

12,000 holders. Like if you like look at that, not even the market cap like total like you know it went to 40 mil, people thought it would go a lot higher, whatever. It's been hard stuck at 12k

whatever. It's been hard stuck at 12k holders for two months. Like there's no type of new people coming in buying the coin whatsoever. Like chill guy and all

coin whatsoever. Like chill guy and all that. Like

that. Like >> the amount of holders on that was insane.

>> That's kind of exactly what I'm talking about. about thread guy though is that

about. about thread guy though is that he's like that is the perfect that's the perfect storm coin. Okay, insanely viral trend. Not only is it viral, it's like

trend. Not only is it viral, it's like has a track record of being viral for a long time. You can look at the Google

long time. You can look at the Google trends, it continues to go more viral.

It's kind of like perfect for, you know, a coin. But the thing is it hasn't gone

a coin. But the thing is it hasn't gone outside of CT and that comes where that that's where the marketing comes in and not just for the coin. I'm just saying for the space. the space is so small and despite what everyone in CT tries to

tell me and think like nobody knows about this space. Maybe they did at one point but they forgot about it, they're not reminded of it or they just don't know about it at all. I think a lot of people don't realize how many people

just frankly don't know about meme coins at all. And so if you have some like I

at all. And so if you have some like I feel like it's common sense, right? If

no one hears about something, they're not going to know about it. They're not

going to buy it. That's just like with any business, right? if they don't know about a product, they don't know about a coin. In this case, of course, it's not

coin. In this case, of course, it's not going to translate to buyers, Cubsy mentioned it. This particular I know

mentioned it. This particular I know there's been like 10 of the six, seven coins, but this one right is like um it's been stuck at like 12,000 holders like a month now because it can't get

outside of CT because there is no real, you know, intentional coordinated push to expand outside of CT in my opinion, particularly on the platform side of things.

I al this is this isn't even where I want to take the conversation but I also think there's been this larger >> existential crypto crisis where people like outside of memecoins >> if you look at alts and where we are in

the alt scene right now there's this like panic over token versus IP all these companies are getting acquired tokens are worthless and I think there's been this consensus

at the same time moment of oh my god maybe all of these tokens are worthless and company can be successful and the vault just goes to zero and a lot of people kind of I don't know 67 it sort

of feels the same way which is like trend goes really viral token doesn't go up why would it go up and people sort of feel this like existential dread by the way chill chill guy right now has

120,000 holders >> that's my point so it's like okay so to your point 67 like the trend I don't care who who posted it Trump could go post 67 now don't get me wrong it'll go

up if Trump like short term at least right it'll probably go 50 mil what I Maybe even 100 mil.

>> I don't even know if it's going 50 mil on a on a Trump CA at this point, dude.

>> Whatever it goes to, right? It's going

to be a very short-term thing that immediately retraces because it we have maxed out the holder count, maxed out the amount of buyers because we're just in CT. This is a CT native thing as is

in CT. This is a CT native thing as is anything for any anything that people are buying. It's all CT native. It's all

are buying. It's all CT native. It's all

CT people. There's a very small pool of people to pull from. And so it's like well I mean I I would argue if you look at the initial run of like 67 or the past 67 when there were catalysts it

would affect the market cap and it would kind of go up with it until it capped right it capped by the the amount of holders like the first one the bonk one right you know there's all these K shilling it and then Bonk shield it and

then Binance shield it and went to like 40 mil and so kind of it cor correlated with the virality and it correlated with the mind share but then once it reached like you know 15 20k holders whatever it's like okay there's no more people

left on CT, you have to go beyond it.

And so when you talk about chill guy and when you talk about Peanut and whatever, those things went beyond. Well, Peanut

was very much CT, but you get my point.

They went beyond just a very small pool of people, you know, you're not going to get a billion dollar token with 10K holders, period. Um, and we can argue

holders, period. Um, and we can argue about how much retail moves the needle and how much of it is whales and VCs and whatever, but I'm saying that, you know, simply put, in a small scale pool of

people, you're just going to be very, very limited. no matter how viral or how

very limited. no matter how viral or how bullish a narrative is. Yeah, that's my take.

>> Pubs, do you think meme coins are forever solved?

>> Are forever solved?

>> Solved. Yeah.

>> I mean, I think I I guess like the best comparison right now is like it's like Fortnite, right? Like, you know, back in

Fortnite, right? Like, you know, back in when when it first came out, you know, no one knew how to build, no one knew how to do all this. Now you see Peterbot

[ __ ] like doing 10 triple edits, full boxing and one pumping you. Like it's

like it's just the the game is evolving.

But the thing is there's no like no one's taking any initiative like in the space to you know even try to do anything about it. Everyone says like oh

yeah if if Pump tries to market to normies they're just going to lead pigs to slaughter. It's not going to work.

to slaughter. It's not going to work.

Whatever. But the thing is no one has even tried. whatsoever. Like the fact is

even tried. whatsoever. Like the fact is there's just no effort from anyone whatsoever. We haven't even seen them

whatsoever. We haven't even seen them try. If they tried and they failed, it'd

try. If they tried and they failed, it'd be a different conversation.

Can I I'll come back to the Fortnite analogy cuz I I like it actually. Can I

ask what you would do if you were Alain? Like what

would you attempt to do to save meme coins?

>> Oh, >> I'll let you [laughter] both go, but cops, you go first. Yeah.

>> I mean I mean there's a lot of things, right? I mean right now I would say I

right? I mean right now I would say I would say anything. There's literally

any any step there's no step coming from anyone at all right now. They're just

letting everything slowly to zero. And I

know Al Aon's a good guy. I I like Alon a lot. And he reaches out to a ton of

a lot. And he reaches out to a ton of people privately and asks them, you know, about trenches, whatever. So, you

know, he he's not gone or anything like that. He just he has a different he has

that. He just he has a different he has a the public has a different view on Alon than what some people do privately cuz you know he doesn't have as much of a public presence but he he knows what

he's doing and he definitely is working and stuff but the thing is Pump isn't publicly doing anything at all. We

haven't seen anything from them publicly since since Mayhem and even before Mayhem there's nothing before before that either. So,

that either. So, >> so does that mean they're privately doing stuff or they're just >> there's just nothing going on?

>> No, I mean I have to doing something.

>> I You would think so. Yeah. But I mean I'm just I'm vouching that you know he's not like he's not like completely gone like all these people think. Like you

know he's still there every day and he's reaching out to people talking to people about a bunch of you know different topics about how to improve. But I think any step, any type of effort from the

pump team to fix, you know, whatever issues are going on right now would be good, even if it's a wrong move.

>> Jack, how would you say Bemecoins?

>> Um, there's a lot to talk about. You

mentioned a couple different things.

First off, you were talking about like the Fortnite and now let's circle back to let's go about the Alon thing first.

Okay. So like my take by the way it's not just Alon like I know like Pump Fund's the you could say like the the mo definitely the most influential in terms of revenue like they're the biggest uh platform company in the space at least

like of this cycle whatever so he's going to take the most heat but all these terminals Axiom who like anyone like it feels to me like every company is run like like a trading discord it's not run like a billion dollar company do

you know what I mean like I feel like the presence and it's it's not just the marketing it's Like we're talking to founders who were

undoced with retardio NFT profile pics and like it's like [ __ ] posting niche CT memes and like that's the extent of presence we get from billion dollar companies. It's cool. I get it. Like

companies. It's cool. I get it. Like

listen I get the CT thing. I'm not

knocking the retardio NFT profile pics.

I'm not knocking the [ __ ] post. But what

I am saying is like at what point right let's go back to prime. Like we could talk about market [ __ ] in the bed now.

What point do you go back to, let's say, Prime Market? Do you say, "Okay, let's

Prime Market? Do you say, "Okay, let's scale this company and start acting like a multi-billion dollar company in a company that could maybe go to, you know, uh, 1020 billion in revenue."

Like, what? Like, how are we going to get there? Are we going to get there by

get there? Are we going to get there by just doing the same thing? No marketing

whatsoever, no presence. We're not going to do press. We're not going to have like a lobbying team that establishes relationships with all these social media platforms so that we can market on them the way that these sports betting

platforms do, right? like price picks for example and whatever you know like like a great example right now if you're a content creator if you're a YouTuber you literally cannot promote trading

terminals and pump fun on YouTube and there's some people who do it but it's technically against guidelines um as of like a few weeks ago because of like a Coffeezilla video and you know you can promote like sports betting and gambling

and all these other things but you can't promote terminals and if you look at the guidelines it literally says because they are not certified by YouTube meaning they don't even just have the basic relationships with these platforms

to even be able to advertise. You you

get banned as a creator, even if I wanted to promote these platforms for free. So, it's like I just feel like

free. So, it's like I just feel like there's so much work to be done in terms of, you know, it it's beyond just marketing. It's it's moving like a

marketing. It's it's moving like a billion-dollar company. It's

billion-dollar company. It's establishing presence. It's scaling a

establishing presence. It's scaling a team. It's it's forming legitimate

team. It's it's forming legitimate strong relationships with the platforms that ultimately you should want to end up advertising on because that's where all the people are at. And we have like none of that. Literally none of that.

I'm curious to hear your take on that as a creator.

>> I'm going to ask I'm going to just I want to ask Cubsy a dark question because I know he was 100% here for it.

And then if you want to give a take on it also Jack, you can. My question for you Cubsy is do you think any level infinite budget any level of marketing

andor founder activism could have saved NFTTS?

uh NFT may potentially, but I I'll like say I think memecoins are infinitely better.

Tokenizing things are infinitely better than NFTTS. Like it's it's a completely

than NFTTS. Like it's it's a completely different thing.

>> Valid. I I just I feel like we're in that state on this on the memecoin stuff. You could say like the, you know,

stuff. You could say like the, you know, people speaking up about memecoins sound like, you know, the old NFT guys when NFTTS were dying. I just I don't know.

>> I disagree completely.

>> I I don't agree with that. But going

back on like what Jack was saying like we've talked about this like you know together in VC multiple times like you know for for Pump's marketing what you see from the company like what normies

is you know scam scam scam they're not regulated all their videos get taken down. And for Poly Market Kashi, you see

down. And for Poly Market Kashi, you see these doxed founders going on the news and going on interviews on 60 minutes >> and then and then what you see from Pump

is a retardio PFP on some podcast. You

see nothing like it's >> it's just like like Jack said, it's not treated like an actual billion dollar company whatsoever.

>> Treated like a joke even and also there's a level of >> the terminal. Everyone shuts up fun. No

one ever says a word about the terminals that have individually made 300 plus million dollars each. Photon made 300 and some change. All of them made >> that's that's another thing I've been talking about too.

>> Dex screener. I mean all >> screener they and they have no incentive anymore to do anything because they already made it. They're [ __ ] on.

They're done. Like they made it. People

People talk about, you know, the tra the traders, you know, they they took money from, you know, other traders and they left, whatever. But realistically, the

left, whatever. But realistically, the whole every single platform like all this money has just gone into a black hole. Pump,

hole. Pump, Photon Axiom Bolex Bonk Believe like all all of these platform. There's

like 10 platforms who have all made together combined billions and literally billions of dollars straight into a black hole. Zero

of it reinvested. We don't see any of it. That's that's the main issue why

it. That's that's the main issue why everything is, you know, slow bleeding down.

>> Yeah.

>> I would say >> there's no because there's no in my opinion there's no competition. No real

competition. People love to bring up like, oh, there was Bonk and there was Pastronac and there was whatever. That's

not okay. Real competition is poly. You

don't think Poly Market knows? And not

just call sheet, right? Michael Rubin's

doing, you know, podcasts saying that he's going to get fanatics and all the sports betting platforms. They're going to prediction markets, multi multi-billion dollar, $10 billion plus companies that are coming in trying to

compete with the space. That's real

competition. That's why, as F guy just said, right, they're doing 60-minute interviews. They're doing national press

interviews. They're doing national press tours. They have legitimate social media

tours. They have legitimate social media presence. They're getting any and

presence. They're getting any and everybody they can to try to get market share and dominate. like they're doing it with a purpose, right? They have that kind of fire under their ass to like get going. They're not just chilling like in

going. They're not just chilling like in the back burn like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, we have market share and that's just how it's going to be." They real competition. I I made a tweet one time.

competition. I I made a tweet one time.

I'm like, "Dude, let's say take a random company. Let's say like Stake for

company. Let's say like Stake for example, right? It could be any company.

example, right? It could be any company.

stake comes in and they say for whatever reason we are interested in memecoins and we're going to make a terminal and we're going to make a launchpad and we're going to bring you know ninef figure monthly marketing budgets full celebrity infrastructure we're going to

integrate it with kick we're going to do the full UGC creator doc creator thing full market it tik tok ads up and down just like prize picks we're going to lobby to make sure this is legal to be advertised we're going to do it with

like you know you know joining fees download pump fund today or download stake coin today and get $5 free when you sign up like that whole type of thing, right? That would be real

thing, right? That would be real competition. We have nothing like that,

competition. We have nothing like that, which is why these platforms, it's not just pump, you know, Axium, whoever, retain market share so easily. They

don't really have an incentive to do much else. They still make a lot of

much else. They still make a lot of money and they don't have a fire under their ass to to really change in my opinion. Uh that's my take on it. And I

opinion. Uh that's my take on it. And I

think if they had real competition, either they would have a motivation to evolve or they would just simply get past and we'd have better uh products,

better founders, better platforms in the space. That's my take.

space. That's my take.

And by the way, it's not to throw shots.

I'm not trying to get you, you know, throwing shots at like individual founders, whatever. I'm more just the

founders, whatever. I'm more just the overall >> want to face.

>> I'll throw the shots. I I'll throw shots at everyone.

I'll throw shots at everyone. I'm not

trying to get you wrapped up in anything you don't want to be, but like absolutely. Um I think

absolutely. Um I think >> the problem is that Stake has no incentive to do anything with crypto.

>> Of course. So don't get caught up in stake, right? I agree. Why would they

stake, right? I agree. Why would they why would they want to come over to memecoins? Of course. But I'm just

memecoins? Of course. But I'm just simply saying like imagine a scenario.

Do you agree with me if a company on that level or even like Poly Market or whatever? someone who has the the

whatever? someone who has the the marketing means, the budget, the team, the infrastructure, the lobbying teams with these other platforms and they came in pedal to the metal. We're doing our

own thing. We're doing it right from the

own thing. We're doing it right from the jump would not gain market share immediately. They wouldn't wipe or just

immediately. They wouldn't wipe or just let's just >> one of the things that's unfortunate is that these like institutions are doing it with crypto, but it's not memecoins.

They're do Stripe's building a layer one >> Stripe.

>> Sure.

>> They're building a [ __ ] layer one blockchain, but it they don't want to touch the memecoin stuff. And I I don't entirely know what the fix is. And by

the way, I I think I will say that I think my NFT I was just kind of like trying to be a dick. I I think my NFT parallel is like sort of an unfair question because I I think I think

memecoins are just objectively a have proven that they're a way better vehicle. They're way better coordination

vehicle. They're way better coordination mechanism. They're way better like

mechanism. They're way better like bootstrapping funding mechanism. And I

think that they will continue to live on. Um, but I think it's alarming that

on. Um, but I think it's alarming that the institutions across the board are like all in crypto and they're like sort of leaving this memecoin stuff behind.

And so I wonder what like Okay, there's this guy in my chat. I'll ask you, Jack, because you traded this. I was really [ __ ] on this publicly, not for the sake of hating, but I just

>> thought the coin was was dumb. Kabuto,

>> um, and everyone's saying, "Why did I know you that's why I want to ask you everyone's saying why did Kabuto fail?

Why did Kabuto fail? Why did Kabuto fail?" My take on why Kabuto failed is

fail?" My take on why Kabuto failed is that after the initial like to me it's no different than the white whale coin.

There's like 500 people that could bid this coin and the the top feeder bidder is like the POW gake level which has less impact and like less capital now

than they did a year ago and then beyond like there's no one after POW. I don't

know this. I don't trade the new pair so I don't know who like the new POW is.

But that like the the concept of POW, the idea of POW, there's no buyer after that, right? There's none of these coins

that, right? There's none of these coins could like like the AI coins would were not sent to if Farcoin didn't go to $2 billion by CT. Farco went to $2 billion because like liquid funds were [ __ ]

twapping it. We're getting sex listings.

twapping it. We're getting sex listings.

That next level of buyer just like doesn't exist on the memecoin stuff. That's my

take on why that Kabuto thing failed.

Like it was a it was it was white whale like it happened. It was like funny CT bid it to couple million dollars and then that's it. There's no Pokemon on boarding like it's not real on uh at

least right now no one got onboarded for Pokemon cards to buy that coin.

>> Yeah. There's I mean there's no there's no normies bidding that coin, right? And

then you know it's only CT bidding it and I saw like people talking about it like oh yeah Logan Paul is talking about this guy. Oh Joe Burrow talked about

this guy. Oh Joe Burrow talked about this guy. But it's like,

this guy. But it's like, >> did he really?

>> Just because Yeah. I mean, they talked about the Kabuto guy.

>> Um, but when you think about it, it's like, you know, this guy's just buying Pokemon cards. Why? Why? Why would I buy

Pokemon cards. Why? Why? Why would I buy the coin?

>> And also, why is it a coin? They just

gave this guy 100 bands. They gave this guy a 100 bands to go buy more Kabuto cards. He doesn't give

cards. He doesn't give >> the same thing as white. It's the same thing as White Whale. Like, as soon as he took over, >> that was the last catalyst.

>> Yeah. So now now it's >> they just handed this guy a 100 bands to go buy more [laughter] kabutoos like for >> the thing is like with both of those coins it's possible for them to you know

go higher like say pump helped push them or soul like soul foundation helped push them for example cuz you know we had a bunch of stuff like that in you know

December January where we'd have coins you know similar to that and there would be huge catalysts where you think we'll never see another catalyst But Soul Foundation is pushing them like you know

it just it goes a lot higher. But the

thing is they don't even do that anymore. Like the other day Jack tweeted

anymore. Like the other day Jack tweeted like all all these crypto apps on soul they're pushing completely different things. They're pushing per. They're

things. They're pushing per. They're

pushing prediction markets. No one's

pushing memes. Fan is shifting away from memes. They're they're shifting away

memes. They're they're shifting away from everything.

>> Yeah. 100%. like um so here's my there's a lot to touch on. What I want to say though, let's let's talk about the Kabuto King thing real quick, right?

So um in ter there there's we talk about there's just not enough people in the space, but what I also say is like this comes from a marketing perspective. I

would almost compare it to like so you mentioned there's all these celebrities talking about something. Nobody's mind

when they see a Tik Tok of the Kabuto cards or whatever thinks, oh there must be a coin about it. Maybe I could like get invested in this some way somehow, right? I compare it to like think about,

right? I compare it to like think about, okay, let's take a basic example. Trump

says he's doing stimulus checks. What do

you see all on Twitter and I saw it on TikTok a lot as well. Everybody goes,

"Yo, I'm taking that stimulus check. I'm

putting on parlays. I'm going to go sports bet with it." Why is that?

Because they're advertised all the time.

And the first thing I think about what could I do with some spare money that maybe I don't care about or just some, you know, external chain like what what could I do for fun? Sports betting,

that's what's most advertised to them.

Now, it'll probably be prediction markets, right? They'll probably go, I'm

markets, right? They'll probably go, I'm going to put it on Poly Market. Now,

nobody thinks I'm going to go to Pump Fund. I'm going to go to Axiom. I'm

Fund. I'm going to go to Axiom. I'm

going to go to whatever. There's no

advertising present. So, I would kind of counter you with the point that if everyone was so familiar with Pump Fun or whatever terminal and the way that they are with, you know, like like these

sports betting platforms or prediction markets that something like a Kabuto King maybe hypothetically could convert a lot more and actually get normies per se. um to bid the token or do you

se. um to bid the token or do you understand what I'm saying? Like they'd

be more >> by the way. This is a thing. I I could envision a world where this is real. I I

I can envision a world where this is real. And I you know

real. And I you know how much uh I don't have it pulled up.

Fees pump. Fun. I think it's 200 something million dollars have been spent buying back the pump token. I mean

they should at this point they got to just trying [ __ ] I mean they got to stop buying a coin back. They have got to stop buying a coin back. I mean,

>> no, let's buy back more. No, no,

>> no, he's just torching. And look, I was a beneficiary of the pump trade. I I

love when they were buying it back and it was going up, but at a certain point, you gota they I I do think that there is a future in which

Kabuto thing goes viral and everyone thinks to themselves rather than like what's the viral tweet I can make or like what what's the trade? I I think people I think we could there's a future where that exists because I it happens

to me. What's the trade? What's Oh, I

to me. What's the trade? What's Oh, I saw white whale me. Uber Mendes posted white white whale me. Bet there's got to be a coin. I haven't bought [ __ ] a memecoin under a mill in months, but there's got to be a coin for this [ __ ]

And it's [ __ ] funny. Um, and so I think I think we can potentially get there, but there's just like so many degrees of separation right now. But I

pump Fun should stop buying back the coin. I mean, what are we doing with the

coin. I mean, what are we doing with the [ __ ] buyback?

>> Chill chill guy, for example, with with chill guy. Everyone Tik Tok

chill guy. Everyone Tik Tok >> Yeah. when they when they heard about

>> Yeah. when they when they heard about chill guy they knew oh the chill guy coin the chill guy coin chill guy coin everyone was talking about it on there like I mean that just shows that it's

you know it's possible but the thing is it it just doesn't happen anymore >> yeah the ultimate goal of what you would want to do right so first off you have to have a good platform experience you need good UI you talked about that

earlier right it needs to be accessible we already have that actually right there's no KYC email or thin wallet you're good to go you're connected We need to also make it uh a better

experience a little bit easier visually and understandable though I would argue I talked about it earlier I think the markets reflect the demographics if a lot of retail demographics come on I think the the markets will be more

tailored to that but in terms of the marketing side of things that the goal should be simply put that you get in everyone everyone is thinking in like this like mindset of like tokenizing

there's a viral trend oh there must be a token how can I get involved right in the same way they think about that with sports betting and prediction market, something happens, a catalyst happens, this Super Bowl happens, everybody thinks about how can I sports bet on it,

how can I do this, how can I get involved, whatever, right? So, nobody

thinks about that. That's my argument, by the way, when everybody tells me that everybody already knows about meme coins. They're on boarded. They already

coins. They're on boarded. They already

know about Phantom. First off, that's not true at all. All right? Um, and

second off, they knew about it for, if they did, they knew about it briefly a year ago, and they've completely forgot about it. Right? So, that's my whole

about it. Right? So, that's my whole take on all this. Boil it down to that.

I have a question. Um, Cupsy,

>> do you think creator fees ruined a lot of the memecoin stuff? I mean, it completely destroyed incentive for anyone to push a coin after a certain threshold, right? Like, what did creator

threshold, right? Like, what did creator fees do to >> meme?

>> Um, basically what creator fees did give devs completely zero risk and infinite upside. So traders are like,

infinite upside. So traders are like, "Oh, why the [ __ ] would I trade when I could just dev with a zero risk and infinite upside when I why would I risk

my money buying things?" So now, like, obviously, you can make a lot trading still. You there's always money to be

still. You there's always money to be made, but we're shifting to more devs than traders, and it's going to the dev side more and more and more and more by

the day. So, we're just shifting, you

the day. So, we're just shifting, you know, the wrong side. Less traders, more devs. And then everything like, you know, in the stage

we're in is such a snowball now. Like

when things start like, you know, coming down like it it comes down fast and like

we're losing traders quick. So no one wants to buy things like say you see you see a coin at 500k it's like should I buy this at 500k like who's going to buy this after me you know like so it's just

getting to that point >> um yeah also BBFP thanks for the the 10 gifted Jack go ahead >> well I was going to say I agree with everything Cubsy said but I think also you also add in the context of the

market so adding in these really high debt fees when as Cubsy mentioned ceilings are much lower there's less people on chain um it it really it's almost like the nail in the coffin of like why would anyone want to trade when

there's so little RR to bidding coins above like a 50k market cap you know debing makes so much more sense now in a market where there's more people there's more volume there's higher upside to coins uh you know it might make more

sense and be better RR more enjoyable whatever the reason is to trade even with debt fees per se I might say I I don't think there should be pre-bonding debt fees at all personally that's my

take um and you know I I have a many takes on on this I mean it's kind of tough for a solution I would say. But

yeah, I think right now in the currency of the market, like it makes like no sense to not dev, you know?

>> So the the darkest tweet I ever heard is why I think someone just said this, but why trade? Like if I was just starting in crypto right now, the first thing I would do to make 10K is dev.

It's like dog that.

>> Yeah, exactly. That's

>> I came from a a place where deving was frowned upon, bro. And if you [ __ ] devded, you would put your life on the line to make sure that [ __ ] played out correctly. Cubsy,

correctly. Cubsy, >> I mean, everyone does it now. Like, you

know, scented is deving on stream with a thousand viewers and it's just it's normal.

>> Really?

>> Obvious. Yeah.

>> Like he's deploying on stream.

>> Yes.

>> Oh, really?

>> He's deploying like, you know, like those like, you know, like community coins like some random animal with >> like couple mill toppers at least. Like

what are we topping at? No, he's just selling the dev at like 10k, making like three soul, then he moves on.

>> Stop.

>> I mean, no hate dissented. I mean, he does it now.

>> Yes. Right now.

>> Oh, >> and then you have you have West making a new dev like every single day. And these

guys have made, you know, millions in the trenches. And it's just it's it's

the trenches. And it's just it's it's normal now for everyone to cook Cooker's Deving.

>> No, >> by the way.

>> Yes.

>> What do you mean? Cooker deving. Cooker

is deving on pump >> like act >> he'll just take >> Yeah. If he's on his PC trenching, he'll

>> Yeah. If he's on his PC trenching, he'll be deving.

>> And so when do you say he's deving? Like

what do you mean by this? Like he's

actively deploying once a day. Multiple

a day based off of what? Like

>> if he's sitting there on his PC trenching, he's deploying pretty like multiple. Yeah. A day.

multiple. Yeah. A day.

>> And what is he multiple a day?

>> So the thing is it's like it's not like he's making like a project. You get what I mean? It's like a tweet comes out and

I mean? It's like a tweet comes out and you, you know, there's like 20 on the new pairs, he'll deploy one of them, for example. It's not like he's making a

example. It's not like he's making a project.

>> Like Elon tweets like replies to the energy. The energy is the only He's

energy. The energy is the only He's deploying energy coin.

>> Yes. Exactly.

>> Really?

>> And Cooker's Cooker is not doing it to, you know, farm or whatever. He's just

like he he thinks it's such an issue that he's just adding to it until it gets solved, if you get what I mean. Oh,

that is I had no idea we've gotten there.

>> I I feel like deving >> It's normal, bro. It's normal.

>> Deving has just become like first TX trading is how I would put it. It's less

like when you think deving, you're thinking of kind of like Yeah. like

projects and you're kind of running Debbing right now. It's just like first TX trading. You have the ability to

TX trading. You have the ability to trade coins and first TX them and kind of have almost no downside, right? So

like if a tweet comes out, >> that's brutal. the nerd comes out.

>> But it's it's not like they're it's not like they're rugging though, like if you get what I mean.

>> Well, because you just make creative fees right?

>> They're just Yeah, they're just deving tweets. It's like it's it's not like

tweets. It's like it's it's not like scented is like, you know, just r like mass rugging. Like it's it's completely

mass rugging. Like it's it's completely different. He's just deving like a tweet

different. He's just deving like a tweet or something with, you know, three soul and instantly selling the dev. But I'm

just saying like it's >> How much for people to be deving now?

>> How much are you making on a deploy on a Elon tweet?

Uh, I mean it depends >> if you got it bundled or not, but >> yeah. I mean it completely depends like

>> yeah. I mean it completely depends like >> Yeah.

>> I mean it's volume with creator fees.

>> What's like bottom bracket? No. No. You

didn't go crazy on bundle and >> well I here's a better thing I could tell you, right? You could easily make three 400 bucks a deploy on just [ __ ] 20 30k toppers between fees and just selling the dev wallet. Like without

bundle you could >> three 400 bucks to deploy and just do it all day long. 10k

>> on 30k toppers. Oh my god.

>> Between between between dev fees and just selling the dev like excluding bundling. Yeah, absolutely. There's

bundling. Yeah, absolutely. There's

there's a there's a uh I I think your chat's going to know what I'm talking about. There's a genre of people who on

about. There's a genre of people who on Twitch live deploy like [ __ ] community coins with like no intention of actually running them.

>> So, how could you how could you say like >> if this is the state of things, how could you genuinely feel that we should bring people into this game? It's like

welcome to the [ __ ] you know, it's like you're throwing in the in the gladiator arena with a [ __ ] lion, dude. It's like how could you how could

dude. It's like how could you how could someone join this?

>> Well, another conclusion of the whole thing is like when when you look at it from like outside POV, there's like there's a

there's an open spot. Anyone can come in and drop a terminal, a launchpad, whatever they want and completely take over because there's zero effort coming from anyone at all right now. There's a

complete open spot for someone to come and start something new.

>> Yeah. My argument to you thread guy where you said why would you bring people in the space to the extent by the way I understand that you don't want to like encourage like bring people in pigs to the slaughter. I see a lot of people say that. But what I would say it's like

say that. But what I would say it's like to better conditions, right? And to

evolve the space um forward, right? You

need new people, not just new traders, but you need I kind of like what Cubs is saying, right? You need competition on

saying, right? You need competition on the platform side of things. You need

advertising. You need new people. You

need new eyes. You need new that's like we're never going to be able to do anything with 500 people on chain. I

think everybody can agree to that, right? We can't we literally cannot do

right? We can't we literally cannot do anything with 500 people on chain. I I

don't care what we do with dev fees or what we do with this person or that person or what policy we enact. It does

not matter. There's 500 people in chain.

You can't do anything.

>> So, the one thing I'll say is that this is like the unfortunate reality of crypto and at least how I've experienced it in five years or something like this

is that um I think it's more a belief thing than a capital thing. And every

mini memecoin run and even NFTTS there was some deep level of like okay so you started with bottom of 2023 bonk

comes out Pepe comes out and these early like MOG whiff tokens and people are like oh my god like people are pretty nihilistic [ __ ] the the low flow high FTV [ __ ] the VC coins like we're running

meme coins people like whoa believe Pepe rips to 100 mil really fast pump fund comes out in early January and it's like holy [ __ ] new technology ology. This is

interesting. New game like whoa. People

believed even for a second. Celebrity

coins in the back half of that spring, early summer for like a couple hours.

People were like, whoa, on boarding new people, summer's pretty slow. And then we get AI and it's like, oh my. And like I know it's the biggest in the world, but AGI

on Salana. People really deep I deeply

on Salana. People really deep I deeply believed in the AI stuff deeply. People

really were like, how high can these go?

How crazy can this get? that kind of fizzles out. Blow off the top with like

fizzles out. Blow off the top with like Trump and country coins and you're like, "Oh my god." Like, you know, nation states are deploying. Like, how how [ __ ] crazy can this get? That blows

up in our face. Then we get like the mini internet capital markets and it's like, dude, Ben Pastnick, like, he knows Roy Lee. I know he's friends with with

Roy Lee. I know he's friends with with Roy Lee. I know he is. Nikita Beer

Roy Lee. I know he is. Nikita Beer

backing it. Like, businesses are launching on Salana. Like, whoa. Ex

belief. And then I think that was sort of like the last level of belief and we're sort of in this dead zone.

>> B&B.

>> B&B was m that was but they got midi.

That was mini quick.

>> That was not nah that was not bro.

>> Time wise time wise it was mini. Three

weeks.

>> Yeah it was short. It was shortive. The

the volume >> was crazy >> was the peak volume was higher than the peak than than pumps all time.

>> You know what the one problem with? And

to be fair you made way more money on B&B than me. One problem with B&B was it was no longer oh my god this concept can get huge. It was, "Oh my god, CZ might

get huge. It was, "Oh my god, CZ might retweet."

retweet." >> And that's the I feel like once we got there, CZ might retweet. Then we're

like, we're in the last stages of belief, right? It's like a mini like

belief, right? It's like a mini like complacency shoulder. But you are right.

complacency shoulder. But you are right.

Finance life, all of these things are [ __ ] crazy.

>> That that mini B&B season to me just shows that it's there. The people are there. The capital is there. Everything

there. The capital is there. Everything

is there. We just don't have the right we just don't have the right things at our hands currently. You need incentive to trade.

>> You need incentive to trade. You You

need incentive to be on chain. You need

um intentional direction from these platforms. Those are the two things.

Incentive to be on chain. Intentional

direction for the platform. So BNBC is a great example. A lot of incentive to be

great example. A lot of incentive to be on chain. You just had a shitload of

on chain. You just had a shitload of volume.

And then you have CZ and you have like so you have some intention. Now they

obviously we know they fumbled the bag.

We don't need to get into that. Like

that's a perfect example of like intention on the platform end, a lot of volume. Now, um if they could have

volume. Now, um if they could have really captured that, done it a lot better and built out the, you know, the ecosystem that they kind of created and it was really hot, I think there was a

lot more potential to that B&B season.

Personally, I think that could have gone a lot more.

>> I agree. They fumbled.

>> B&B was led to 100%.

>> B&B was lit till cupsy figured out how to bridge.

So, so that that is what I'm saying is like you give people incentive to be on chain, whatever way that is, whether it's like there's just a lot of volume or there's some sort of like a fees thing, what whatever it is, it doesn't

matter. Incentive to be on chain,

matter. Incentive to be on chain, platform direction, that's it. Those two

things and um you can reinvigorate the space like that. Again, I think to Cupsy's point, B&B season's a great example of that. Um

yeah, that's my take. I mean and realistically another like that just adds on to it that everyone we have right now is just

fumbling. Pump is fumbling. All all

fumbling. Pump is fumbling. All all

these platforms are fumbling.

>> Believe is fumbling.

>> Bro, >> uh BNB fumbled, >> but we can't have that like thread guy.

We can't have like like is the poly what's his name? Shane. That's the poly market guy, right?

>> Shane's a billionaire. Is Shane going damn, I'm just too breaded right now. No

60 minutes. Okay. Touche.

>> No touch.

>> He He's on 60 Minutes with the overcoat or he's hungry. He wants it.

>> He sees >> He [clears throat] sees Michael Rubin.

>> He's He's He's doing a national press tour cuz he >> Hey, Finn Bags just gives it 100 subs.

>> Oh.

>> Oh, Finn Bags heard it. Finn Bags is going to go try to He's going oneonone with Shane, bro. All right, Finn Bags.

Let's see.

>> Thanks for the subs, Finn.

>> Finn Bags.

>> No, he's funny for that. He's mad funny for that. What the [ __ ]

for that. What the [ __ ] >> Um, >> Bin Bag stepped up, bro.

>> But do you see what I'm saying, Thread Guy? Like, I I'm sick of you because I

Guy? Like, I I'm sick of you because I hear that all the time. Everybody just

tells me, "Oh, they're just too rich.

Axim's too rich." And I agree with you.

Yeah, you're right. But like, we're not saying that about Poly Market. We're not

saying that about Koshi. He's a

billionaire. He could go [ __ ] off and be on a yacht in Monaco. He chooses not to.

He's on 60 Minutes in New York walking the streets getting active. how he

should be, how a founder should move.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I don't I don't get why that's why that's a thing with every single platform in this space, but in that space, it's it's completely different.

Everyone thinks why would they do anything? They already made billions of

anything? They already made billions of dollars. Like,

dollars. Like, I mean, that's they should be using that money to try to progress instead of just doing nothing. And then so I replied to

doing nothing. And then so I replied to it the other day. This guy came at me.

He's like, "Well, why why don't you market it then? Why don't you do it? And

it's like, why?

>> I was about to ask you that.

>> The thing, the fact that these platforms need people to come push their product, come swoop in and save them is [ __ ] >> Like, they should they should know how

to push their own >> product. Like, basically, all these

>> product. Like, basically, all these platforms for memes right now are praying that come someone comes and swoops in and saves them, which is just it's realistically not going to happen.

>> Exactly. Like,

>> why why would you push it? There's

there's no incentive. You might as well just push your own [ __ ] >> Yeah, Poly Market does not rely on Thread Guy. Thread Guy helps Poly

Thread Guy. Thread Guy helps Poly Market. But if Thread Guy is not with

Market. But if Thread Guy is not with Poly Market, is Poly Market cease to be a company? No. Poly Market continues

a company? No. Poly Market continues terminals launch I'd say specifically terminals more so, but also launch, right? If the traders and we see that

right? If the traders and we see that with these like terminal wars and these platform wars, right? It's like if the traders, if the users jump ship to another platform, they cease to exist.

Which is why all the marketing is KL marketing. it's trying to get this

marketing. it's trying to get this trader onto this platform onto that platform because that is they are so reliant on their users, right? Does that

make sense? Like it it's not the same case for someone like Poly Market, someone like Khi who u or these sports betting companies. They're not relying

betting companies. They're not relying on on singular Koss on Twitter or whatever to revive or keep their companies afloat, which is how I feel the current state of the market is.

Right.

>> Bob is pretty gifted as well. Um, sorry

Jackie. My bad.

>> Like I I literally feel like if I I like I literally feel like the people in your stream like which is probably like most of the people on chain right now were to say like, "Hey, we're going to go on strikes today and

not trade." Like the revenue of all

not trade." Like the revenue of all these would literally just tank like 50%. Like medium.

50%. Like medium.

>> Somebody explain to me how Pump Fund makes a million dollars a day right now.

How How is that possible? Still

>> exactly how is that? I wonder the same I wonder the same thing because I it's >> How much volume are you doing a day, Cupsy? [snorts]

Cupsy? [snorts] >> Uh let me see.

>> Just pump swap amm fees and new pairs.

>> My my seven day volume's like a little bit above 3 mil. So like 400k a day

>> volume.

>> The mill a day is disgusting. It's

crazy.

>> Yeah. I I I don't know. I I think like most of their revenue comes from these older high caps to be honest. Not actual

new pairs.

>> Cubsy, are you like how do you feel right now? Just uh not even like stay in

right now? Just uh not even like stay in the market, but just like I mean all you do is you trade all day every day like how >> No, >> not right now.

>> I mean I mean last month I kind of chilled. That was the first time I've

chilled. That was the first time I've ever like chilled and kind of took a break. Did it feel good or how did it

break. Did it feel good or how did it feel?

>> Yeah. Yeah, it did. But it also sucked at the same time seeing everything so dead. But this this month, the start was

dead. But this this month, the start was pretty good. It was looking a lot better

pretty good. It was looking a lot better and then now I feel like we're just going back down. Like it the trenches for the last, you know, like six months or whatever. I feel like it's like

or whatever. I feel like it's like everything is dying. People are freaking out. Then we get a relief bounce like,

out. Then we get a relief bounce like, "Oh yeah, we're coming back." Then we just go lower and lower and lower.

Relief bounce. lower, lower, lower, over and over, constant cycle, slow bleed to zero literally.

>> At any point, have you thought to yourself like, I'm going to start taking a different trading approach? I'm going

to buy higher caps and sit on them. I'm

going to trade pers. I'm going to do something else. Like, have you thought

something else. Like, have you thought about playing a different game?

>> Yeah, I've done both. I've bought I've played into high caps. I've played into pers. I've done I've done both. But

pers. I've done I've done both. But

right now, it's like >> touching touching a high cap, bro. If

you're touching like a high cap meme right now, >> dude, [snorts] that shit's risky. I I

don't know.

>> Like even a high cap right now, you could say it's 5 mil as just >> crazy.

>> Yeah, >> you you have you have white whale coin, 67, and Kabuto. That's your That's your >> Yeah, I think 67 might what is it? I

think it's sub Oh, yeah. It's at 8 mil right now. eight mil and it's the

right now. eight mil and it's the biggest meme we've ever seen.

>> It's the biggest meme we've ever seen since meme coins were a thing.

>> 100%.

Like it's 67 like you could have said you could say chill guy is a more memeable thing and better for a meme coin, but 67 is way bigger than chill

guy. And realistically, if it came out

guy. And realistically, if it came out in January or whatever, it would have been a multi-billion dollar coin.

>> 100%.

100%. Yeah,

>> people will blame the vamps on 67 and the kid whatever tweeting whatever that that [ __ ] doesn't matter. The the fact is there's a 67 coin. That's it. You buy

the 67 coin. Like I don't think the vamps and [ __ ] really matter.

>> Hey Moby, thanks for the gifted. Um

Jack, go ahead.

>> No, 100%. I like a lot of the things we talk about is like a cope to like the bigger problem. I like we work

bigger problem. I like we work everything backwards. Everyone talks

everything backwards. Everyone talks about like PvP is the problem.

[clears throat] The people on new pairs are the problem.

Uh this and that are the problem. And I

think the real problem is we just have no means to get new users and new volume. And so it's going to be ever

volume. And so it's going to be ever decaying volume. And so the market

decaying volume. And so the market conditions are continue to be like less than optimal and it's going to suck to trade and just be on chain, right? So

that's that's the overall problem. We

could talk about culture issues and we could talk about PBP and we could talk about if this coin should be higher or not compared to this coin or whatever.

At the end of the day, that's all semantics in my opinion. And the the real problem is on a platform level, we have no intention to bring in new users,

to push mind share, to push market share, and to expand outside of the current user base that we have.

I tend to think like it's just going to end up being a flows thing because the real situation is the trenches aren't the only thing that's bad right now. It's like look at a close

your eyes think of any altcoin look at a [snorts] at the last three months, right? Look at bit look at Bitcoin. Look

right? Look at bit look at Bitcoin. Look

at Salana. Like I it kind of comes down in my opinion. I

>> it feels like it's just a flows thing.

It feels like memes catch the tail end of flows and if the market was going up, memes would be catching flows. if they

were going down, they're going to be looking like the way they're looking right now. And there's problems 100,000%

right now. And there's problems 100,000% with the the tech and the foundation of it. There are like you described a lot

it. There are like you described a lot of them. I didn't even know a lot of

of them. I didn't even know a lot of these were happening. There are

legitimate problems that are not being solved and it's making things worse. But

I think the general like flat state is just the flows to crypto suck. There's

none of them. No one's bidding anything.

There's no bid on on majors. the alts

have less than a bid and then it's like how could memes look good when like plasma is a thing and these coins are trading so terrible cubs I think I cut you off but I think that's like my

general take >> soul soul could be higher right now and everything would still be the same like >> the sentiment

>> sentiment was mult multiple x's better than it is right now for memes back in what April when when did we went down to like $90 April April on April

>> and we've been chilling in you know 130 range for a long time now and that that's way higher than 90 and the sentiment back then and >> the volume the ceilings

everything was way better back then than it is now. I mean, I feel like what what Jack was saying, like, you know, just a second ago is like everyone in this

space just loves to look for excuses to put the blame to put the blame on >> for why why we're at the spot we're in?

>> Why Why are prediction markets hotter than ever right now?

>> And I get that they're not as one to one with like the price of soul and stuff as memecoins are. Don't get me wrong, and

memecoins are. Don't get me wrong, and I'm not I'm not denying the fact that macros don't play some level of effect on on meme coins, but like why are prediction markets so hot? Advertising,

I think we can all agree to that. And a

and a push for also just accessibility, poly market coming to the US and whatever, all of that, right? So, we

have none of that. And my my simple thesis, if we had all of that in the memecoin space, we would see significant um increased volume and better marketing

conditions overall. And I think a lot of

conditions overall. And I think a lot of these conversations we have would cease to be conversations about the price of soul and about, you know, PvP and this

and that and traders were I think a lot of it honestly would cease to exist if we had three billion daily vault tomorrow.

>> That's my take.

>> Yeah. Where's it coming from? Three

billion daily vault. It's not coming.

>> I mean it could it could in the snap of a finger. Look at BNB. It literally

a finger. Look at BNB. It literally

bonded out of nowhere. That volume out of nowhere.

>> But like Cece made everybody rich on Aster and then started [ __ ] hard.

>> Exactly.

>> You just said it. It's one catalyst. One

catalyst. It's literally

>> It was sort of like an empty tank type of catalyst though. It was like a fullblown coordinated push like all we got, you know?

>> And I mean I just feel like comparing it to prediction market.

>> It wasn't like we got a decent coin. And

it was like we're going all in all resources. Crime is on the table.

resources. Crime is on the table.

Nothing is off limits. Like this is like this is it.

>> The last harrah. B&B at it was like the you know it was like the [ __ ] the last party.

>> All right. Sorry guy. I have a question for you.

>> Okay. Go ahead.

>> Let me give you a hypothetical.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> Let's say that like all these platforms they really like fine-tuned their their UI the way that like poly market and call [ __ ] like it's very like accessible. You get on it's intuitive

accessible. You get on it's intuitive whatever. You can't affect the markets

whatever. You can't affect the markets per se in terms of the coins being made.

That kind of happens naturally. You can

make the platforms better. So let's let me give you a hypothetical. Platforms

get a lot better looking, more accessible, better for new new users getting on. Then let's say there's

getting on. Then let's say there's five 10 billion views a month short form and 500 million views a month long form

between UGC creator docs creators and a legitimate presence from the founders and the platforms themselves on every single social media meaning like verified let's say pump fun for example

verified pump fun YouTube pump fun Tik Tok pump Instagram pump Facebook whatever like everywhere like a shitload of presence um on on the platform end

and through UGC creators 5 10 billion views a month recurring massive clipping campaign like stake for example UGC creator campaign like stake like whoever >> how do you think that would translate to

the space just on that level >> I think it will help but the the thing that I can't get out of >> how much the thing I kick out of my brain when you talk about this is Michael Sailor

right now and Michael Sailor now owns 4% of Bitcoin and is at every single nation state sovereign wealth fund doing everything he could ever poss possibly do to the biggest buyers in the world.

And if it's if the flows aren't there and the narrative isn't there and BTC is not going up, that thing is not going up. It doesn't matter what Tom Lee does,

up. It doesn't matter what Tom Lee does, they're buying [ __ ] $500 million a week. He's on CNBC every day in front of

week. He's on CNBC every day in front of the biggest money in the world and it's just like not the time. I don't know. It

It's just like nothing. You're doing

nothing.

>> I mean, you have the same view as everyone else. It's like Jack is saying

everyone else. It's like Jack is saying like, you know, if we did this for memes, what they're doing for, you know, marketing for Poly Market Kelshi, like

why why would it not work? The thing is, no, realistically, it might not work. We

don't know because no one's even tried.

But the thing >> it would help it would help work is >> prediction. Prediction markets.

>> prediction. Prediction markets.

Prediction markets. That's like a it's like a fancy fancy scop term for what it actually is. like they just came up with

actually is. like they just came up with a >> well there's another thought to the prediction market thing too though which is like prediction markets have insane daily traffic that are not traders like you don't have to be a trader to be a

user of poly market and so they have this like base flow of people that are using PMs for news for updates who's going to be the next Fed share what's going to happen at the next Fed meeting

with rate cuts they have this like massive passive inflow of users that are not trading that I just don't like me they're not passive if you're looking at memecoin are trading them. There's no

passive flow. And so I I hear the comps, but I think there's like an angle that's missed.

>> Well, here's like you say memecoins and everyone thinks of memecoins as like a bad like a bad word, you know, like memecoins.

When prediction prediction markets, everyone thinks the word is, you know, innovative, whatever, like it's cool.

When it's realistically, it's just g it's another form of gambling. If you

renamed memecoins and marketed it as something else, it'd be similar to what they do.

>> So, what's the >> It's the same thing. It's the same thing.

>> Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.

>> It's the same thing as the day trading space. I remember distinctly when I was

space. I remember distinctly when I was in the day th when I was in the day trading space like six years ago, five years ago, AMCG, dude, people like me were looked at as idiots and like

honestly rightfully so. We're losing

money. We're buying penny stocks. We're

whatever. Like we were looked at the same way that like CT guys look at Tik Tok guys. They look at like the the

Tok guys. They look at like the the idiots that buy chill guy and whatever and they clown on them. The guys that were trading on Fidelity and TDmir Trade will look at me and whoever trading on Weeble and Robin Hood is like the idiot

retail guys trying to trade penny stocks. And fast forward three years

stocks. And fast forward three years later and now it's like day trading and you're a funded trader on a funded account and they give you a certificate in the mail. They give you a diploma if you get funded on Topstep and and has a

steam to it. And if you say you're a day trader and you know ICT patterns and Fibonacci retracements, it's all branded. Okay? And it's and and if you

branded. Okay? And it's and and if you were to say if I were to say to someone who's 19 right now, college kid in America and and do like flash cards, what comes to your mind, day trader,

they think money, aspirational influencer Miami.

>> And when I say memecoin, they think idiot loser.

>> Fair fair.

>> There you go. Branding. It's all

branding. Uh but part of the reason there's there just like way more I don't know there's way more people making money in stocks. No one's making there's like there's like >> no >> 30% of people that are making money.

Thanks for the gifted on memecoins are like in this chat in this stream.

>> Yeah, but that's a lot of people.

>> YouTube as in YouTube.

>> No, but it's a lot of Okay, let me put it this way. Okay, let's talk about the day trading like stocks as a whole.

Yeah, absolutely. Like people printing on Palunteer right now. Absolutely. But

let's say like the day trading space, people trading futures, people trading like zerodt options, which is like trillion volume a day. It's it's

actually insane how much volume these markets which are almost entirely retail are printing. Trillions a day. And

are printing. Trillions a day. And

[snorts] you look at the statistics of how many people are profitable and it's like nothing. It's like point it's it's

nothing. It's like point it's it's literally next to nothing. And

especially on the creator influencer UGC creator side of things, right? There's

really not many people in the day trading space who are, you know, printing seven, let alone eight figs and fully transparent about the way that like I can go on a terminal, you know, pump fun. I can go to like I can go to

pump fun. I can go to like I can go to my wallet tracker right now and give you 300 people who have made seven figs plus in the space. It's all on chain. It's

all transparent. And it that was one of my first big like kind of like it was like an awakening when I came to the space from the the stock day trading world which is like it's almost taboo in that world to ask about like how much

money you make and show your P&L show your brokerage statements >> and here it's like nobody cares. Yeah,

here's how much I made on Trumpcoin.

Here's my P&L for the month because why would you LAR about I mean there's people who lar of course but you get my point like people actually make money in this space and that's my take as well. I

I really think a lot of these people in these other fast money spaces don't make money. Like I think like 99 and not to

money. Like I think like 99 and not to say that most people are profitable meme coins. Of course not. But I think

coins. Of course not. But I think there's quite a bit of people who have who have cooked in this space, bro. Like

like proportionally. There's a lot less people in the space than some of those other spaces. But I think a lot of

other spaces. But I think a lot of people proportionally have cooked in the space especially in prime market. That's

my take.

>> I can't get over the deving thing. I'm

like shocked.

>> Yeah. It's crazy. That's [ __ ] like blew my mind.

>> You know, it's crazy.

>> It's normal now, bro. And the thing is like >> I mean, you're almost dumb to not dev now. And

now. And >> yeah, >> for for new people that start, it's like, oh yeah, if I have $1,000 and I go on into the trenches, what should I do?

And the real answer is deving, which is just sad because I mean, if you dev, you have zero risk. Zero. You can't lose and you have infinite upside. That's that's

the main issue.

>> Why don't we add like a price to deploy again? Five souls.

again? Five souls.

>> Yeah, that's that's what I was saying.

Yeah, >> that seems like so obvious.

>> There should be a price to deploy and then to I think creator fees are really good, but only [snorts] sometimes like only for some coins those creator fees

are good for, you know, these tweet PVP whatever type coins the creator fees aren't good. I think the creator fees

aren't good. I think the creator fees should be gated and I don't I don't think they should be removed. I think

make money on a 30k topper. That should

not be a thing that's possible.

>> You should have to get approved to receive the creator fees, you know, something like that.

>> Or you should be able to [ __ ] make it go higher. 30K is a joke. It doesn't

go higher. 30K is a joke. It doesn't

even That's an instant, >> bro. 30K is a 30K is a cook now, bro.

>> bro. 30K is a 30K is a cook now, bro.

>> Dog, stop. It's like that Assassin's Creed shot. [laughter] Assassin's Creed

Creed shot. [laughter] Assassin's Creed shot is like a smoothing 8K, 9K, 10K.

30K is a joke.

>> Yeah, 30K. Yeah, 30K is a cook now, bro.

Dude, that's so [ __ ] >> Well, look at look at Okay, so look at the state of the I I don't know how tapped in you are with like the debubbing and like the fees and how they work.

>> Zero. I don't tr I don't memes go on like new pairs. Zero.

>> So >> I don't pay any attention anymore.

>> So how it works, if you don't know how it works, the higher the coin goes, the lower the fees are, right?

>> To just [ __ ] drop [ __ ] So you're incentivized to just do 30k toppers all day >> because if your coin actually was a 10 mil your fees not that of course you'd want a 10 mil runner you'd still make a shitload of money but it's like

inherently let's say you're a major project and typically a major you're going to do a media or a coin whatever you could do like a higher tax or whatever but like why would you want to go on a launchpad where the fees

drastically decrease right the higher the higher it goes right >> all right can I just give a take you know there's like another side of crypto where there's There's people are like

really picking spots and doing really well.

Like you could have hit even cuz I know the counter is always like well thread guy I'm trying to hit 100x today my port low. You could have hit 15x 10x on

low. You could have hit 15x 10x on infinite size on like Zcash and avoid and skip the last two month. You could

have did Zcash trade nothing and then bought white whale and kabuto for fun.

>> Sure.

>> There's always cooks. There's there will be there will be infinite cooks in crypto. Like it's it's too adopted now.

crypto. Like it's it's too adopted now.

I think >> like my take is that people don't have to >> force like you don't have to like lock yourself down and play this game.

>> You don't have to do it. Especially you

guys that have poor like poor >> the upside is so good. The upside is so good.

>> Well, it sounds awful right now.

>> I mean, >> well, right now it like uh over 10 mil center that wasn't 67 coin. Kabuto didn't right 10. Kabuto did

coin. Kabuto didn't right 10. Kabuto did

it like 12.

>> It went like Okay. What was it 15 then?

Uh, I bet your child would know better.

>> Franklin. Yeah, Franklin.

Oh, yeah. Franklin went Franklin went like 26 or good.

>> Um, >> some it's it's few and far between.

>> Who Jack? Yeah. W Jack went like 50 something. Like the thing is the the

something. Like the thing is the the capital is there when when the the right coins and the right people pushing are there, but we just don't we don't have

enough of it anymore. I mean, I think my general take right now is that I like I think there's this is my general take and we can kind of like do some closing takes is like okay

generally speaking I think sentiment will improve when the flows improve and that happens when people get excited about crypto again as they always do.

There's people are excited people are not. We're at a point where people are

not. We're at a point where people are just not excited about crypto and so flows suck. I will say though that I

flows suck. I will say though that I think there's and a take that I'm like been saying on stream over and over is I think there's always a bull market somewhere and you don't have to hit the

thousandx but there's always spots right like we just hit Tesla on this stream the other day I'm [ __ ] hyp about it uh before Tesla we hit Zcash that was a sick spot and there was a couple onchain spots like I hit the white whale which I

was I was excited about because I hadn't traded an on like a low cap in a long time I guess we're calling that high cap now but I hadn't traded a low what I low cap couple I don't know about 500k

midcap mid to high cap in a long time and that one felt like it was a pretty free CT native type of of play. Um, but

I say to the stream all the time like my and I have a completely different trading style than than you guys. But

I'm more so just saying it like to the chat that you can just sit and spot and do nothing until you see Franklin, until you see Zcash, until you see White Whale, Tesla, whatever, and sort of pick

these god spots because it's like the RR to being online all day is there's volume. And when there's not, it's like

volume. And when there's not, it's like you drive yourself crazy. Like I don't Yeah, you drive yourself crazy. I feel

like you guys are a little bit unique because you have these big platforms, big bank rolls and sort of like what you do, but I don't think people have to be forcing themselves to trade these like dog [ __ ] conditions. Like not trading is also a trade, you know, but I guess that

I just wanted to like throw that out there while people are here for this.

>> Um, >> it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, I would say. Market conditions get bad, people

say. Market conditions get bad, people get demotivated, they get off chain, market conditions get worse. It it's a kind of a spiral. vice versa to the upside crazy catalyst happen everybody gets on chain market conditions get

better then more people FOMO and they get and then that so that's BB season by the way then this and that next thing you know a weekend there's three four bill daily volume so it works to the

upside and downside my take though is I think that meme coins could be somewhat adjacent of macros in terms of I think you could have somewhat I think you could have a really hot trenches and

soul could be down I think you could have a hot trenches Bitcoin could be Now, I think I think flows matter, but I think that if listen, your take was I I mentioned to

you a scenario of like legitimate intentional platform push and your take is more that it could help, but that's not the main thing. My take

is more I think that really is that would be like the main kind of like propeller that would push things forward and kind of start off that momentum of getting more people on chain FOMO volume

and then that kind of exponential curve to the upside.

>> So I by the way I agree with you and I think people should they should [ __ ] try something. Um also this was sick. I

try something. Um also this was sick. I

I honestly big fan obviously King Cup the goat but Josh Duval I'm like increasingly a fan. Um, I think you're entertaining and I I think you have like an interesting perspective on things

which is fun. Um, I I kind of want each of you to give like a sign off of I'll let Jack go first because you started it and I'll throw to Cupsy after. Like I

don't know. Just like what what do we want to see? Who do you want to address?

Like what do you want to happen if you want to call somebody out? Like I don't I don't know. But I think this was sick.

It was informative to me because I haven't been trading a lot of this stuff and I'm appreciative of your guys' time and like talking on this stuff. It's

important. We have to Someone's got to do it, you know. So, I appreciate you guys like stepping up and and doing it.

>> Yeah. My my sign off would be if you're a leading platform in this space, you need to act like the billion-dollar company that you are. And there's

there's multiple that you know what I'm saying apply to uh multiple companies of what I'm saying applies to right now.

You know, act like the billion dollar company you are. You need to scale properly like a billion-dollar company and you need to have a coordinated

marketing push to in better the space and trading conditions but more importantly to uh extend the space beyond the small pool uh within CT that

we have currently um and and increase adoption right you need to be moving like prediction markets like this the the sports betting companies you need to be moving like poly market you need to be moving like call sheet you see how

those founders are moving you see how the creators are moving, how they're attacking, you know, with purpose um on the marketing end of things. And if you

don't do that, someone's going to take your spot. And that's my sign off.

your spot. And that's my sign off.

>> Copsy.

>> Uh I mean, I have a similar sign off to him. It's basically like I think there's

him. It's basically like I think there's a lot of upside. There's a lot of potential and I think everyone can agree on that. Uh, I think we just need to see

on that. Uh, I think we just need to see some effort made from the plat. I think

it's more of a platform issue from all the platforms we have rather than, you know, what everyone wants to blame it on. But I think we just need to see some

on. But I think we just need to see some effort from from that. and you know see just see what happens because I think there's too much upside for the

potential in the space to go to wa go to waste and that's what it's doing right now is everything is just you know slow grinding down to the ground literally >> well

>> I'll tell you what hopefully when we get back to like 510 billion daily volume you guys both come back on and we do a [ __ ] celebratory episode but I'm uh I'm look >> we're going to do it >> I'm a [ __ ] I I I am I made like

Beamcoin are sort of where I started in the onchain stuff and so I'm optimistic about it. I'm rooting for you guys. I'm

about it. I'm rooting for you guys. I'm

rooting for myself as a participant even though I don't play the game that much and I'm always looking for more white whale spots. So, thank you guys for

whale spots. So, thank you guys for coming on. It was honestly sick and uh

coming on. It was honestly sick and uh big fans of both.