David Natroshvili: SPRIBE CEO Breaks Silence on UKGC Licence Suspension

[music] Bingo Bango. Two years I've been waiting

Bingo Bango. Two years I've been waiting for this episode. Finally, David Nachi in the seat here today. How are you?

>> Great, Ben. Thank you for having me here. We're actually very happy to be

here. We're actually very happy to be here. Like, yeah, it took longer, but

here. Like, yeah, it took longer, but now we're here.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. If you wait for something, sometimes you have to wait for a little longer. So, that's all okay with me. David, you've built one of the

with me. David, you've built one of the most interesting uh blowing up companies ever in the aamy industry. Uh I mean the

aviator game that belongs to Scribe, we all know 60 million monthly users.

>> It's the most popular game in the entire world.

>> How did this happen?

>> Well, well, it's it's it's actually a great question. You know, I remember six

great question. You know, I remember six years ago, it's a famous iPad story, you know, like we would, you know, we came to the uh to the first our first exhibition in London with an iPad and

this idea, we had one customer in Georgia, small small company, Georgia, a small country and and it was not no way international or any any of that sort.

Just one, you know, small company in Georgia. in Georgia was big company but

Georgia. in Georgia was big company but Georgia is like you know uh but uh we we you know when when we uh started in Georgia and it blew up like I was like

why can it blew up in other countries other markets so but we didn't we didn't know anything about the gaming I didn't know anything about I didn't know what was the gaming I just knew that there

was some kind of industry you know there was casinos online and that's it I don't know what's aggregator what platform is nothing affiliate And we were just came with this me, you

know, me and my partner came with this idea with an iPad just to meet everyone.

And I was trying to really meet people online. And now it's it's interesting

online. And now it's it's interesting like a not a trend, but it's like a fun thing. People post on LinkedIn how I

thing. People post on LinkedIn how I wrote them in 2019, you know, and then they replied in three years. You're

like, "Wait, why did it?" And I literally was writing everyone and no one was replying. No one. And I said to Nick, to my partner, I said, "Let's go, man. we have to go to the exhibition.

man. we have to go to the exhibition.

Let's Google. We say, "Oh, London Ice."

It was in February and we just landed.

We we went with no meeting. And the

first thing we did, we just started approaching the stands and talking to everyone. Imagine how hard it was

everyone. Imagine how hard it was because like you know you you never meet the right person and like you know you we would go to the same stand five times six times you know

>> and no one wanted to be because idea back then was that it's not a casino game that it's not going to you know cuz it's it's not a casino game it's not going to work I've heard so many nos you

know so many nos it's not going to work it's it's a bad idea it's it's a you know and and and most importantly crash games were exist were before us. I

mean, we we didn't invent the Crash Games. People think we invent the Crash

Games. People think we invent the Crash game. No, we just took what it was there

game. No, we just took what it was there and made it better. That's a that's a difference because Crash Games were were there even much much uh you know uh before. So,

before. So, >> and I mean not many people know this, David, right? But you mentioned that you

David, right? But you mentioned that you were new to the game gaming industry at that point. Before that, you were a

that point. Before that, you were a politician in I was politician. Yes.

>> Yes, I was. So, I had very diverse background. So to be honest, like in my

background. So to be honest, like in my background, I've done so many things. I

had restaurants, clubs, uh laser hair removal clinics, one of the best in Georgia by the way, believe it or not.

You know, I was very entrepreneurial. I

was doing many things.

>> But the real success came to me when when I was like 43. I was 48 now. 43,

44. I was somewhat successful all my life. you know, you know, it's all

life. you know, you know, it's all depends what you call success, you know, like success is is is very I don't know, you know, relative relative, you know, too many things. So when when you get

the real success, you feel it, you know, you feel that it's it's there.

>> Yeah. I mean, there's levels there's levels of success, let's say.

>> You know, how they say, you know, there there is money, there's a lot of money, so it's a big difference, right? I mean,

so and obviously I think money is a big part of the success because >> Yeah. I mean you can be an artistic

>> Yeah. I mean you can be an artistic person, you can be in many things and you can be successful but if you are in the business and you know and you're you know you're not successful with money

then you're not successful with business right I mean there's it's two things I mean of course there's sometimes that you can build the brand it takes time but by the end of the day I believe that

if you're a good business if you're a good businessman if you you know what the business is the measure is money you know it's it's it's because this And and you never think about the money

obviously because you think about the building the value you're building the company because you know money is is is it will come as a bonus I think it will come based on your right things that you

right decisions you make and right you know things that you do >> yeah money is a consequence good >> decision exactly when you when you build the value when you create when you solve

the problem right let's take aviator right what was the aviator's issue the aviator not issue but there's reason for success because there was a big problem turns

out you know what was the big problem that uh like 30 years ago how when when was uh online casinos being created

maybe end of the '9s you know and when when they were created nothing has changed I mean you have a lot of slot companies you have live

jack but turns out the market wants something new right this is the problem this is this is the you know issue that we solved in a in a way and then we have a

success based on that because it turns out the players want a game like this.

They want fast, they want simple, they want game that works in every region because they where the internet is an issue because remember there's many regions that still have a very bad

internet and this is a light game and it's very fast and very quick, right?

So, so I think there was a and now if you look at the algemic industry as as a whole, Sprite is uh uh you know dominating it. You know why? Because in

dominating it. You know why? Because in

some casinos makes 20% 30% of the revenue. Imagine 20

30% of the revenue of the whole casino sometimes 10 but you know this is so this is like became as a good affiliate tool. So they bring the customers you

tool. So they bring the customers you know from you know to to you know they recruit customers I don't know how to say it right but they attract customers I would say yeah >> and uh you know I saw I was speaking to

one of the guys of betway who manages betway in South Africa right and he showed me that uh not only does like crash game have its own tab or something

but aviator have its own tab in the casino so slot games sports betting aviator >> this is what this is what what what I was doing it when I was starting think like you know like let's let's when when

we start to do it we couldn't hire people okay we were sitting in Kief six guys four founders and two employees really like my my

first employee was his salary I'm not going to name his name but people know him his salary was $800 a month because we couldn't he was like really my our my

assistant you know in a way because but we were you know we were track assistant because in sales because uh remember when We started ev everything was sold by me. There was not one phone call that

by me. There was not one phone call that I was not there. Every phone call I was sitting personally and I was doing presentation. I was not just sitting

presentation. I was not just sitting there because I would not allow anyone to ruin the presentation because it was so new, so different. And you know what happened like uh the covid was a biggest

blessing for us because you know why?

Because when when I was we had the first exhibition, we I remember our budget for a stand, not like crazy stands we have now was $55,000 and we were debating whether take the stand, not take the

stand. It was such a big decision, you

stand. It was such a big decision, you know. So in London ice and we took a

know. So in London ice and we took a stand and when I left when I came back to Georgia, I was sitting in the plane, everyone wear masks. I was like, what's happening? like why people and and co

happening? like why people and and co started and it was a blessing for me because >> everyone was at home and they were like so bored listening screaming kids at home and you know they they couldn't

leave they had to listen to me I would call them at home and say listen this is a great game and they would rather listen to me because they were so bored they couldn't leave anywhere [laughter] you know imagine like it would be so

difficult to keep these people you know decision makers to talk to you because other in other ways but in covid everyone was at So what they going to do? They're going to listen to me. So I

do? They're going to listen to me. So I

would call me look at this. This game is cruel. And we we had we had really big

cruel. And we we had we had really big success by, you know, telling them how great the game was and they believed in it. So

it. So >> yeah. Yeah. And um was that was there a

>> yeah. Yeah. And um was that was there a moment where you said, "Holy like this is taking off like >> Yes. Yes. It was a moment.

>> Yes. Yes. It was a moment.

>> Was there a moment that you remember?"

>> Yes. Actually to be honest like when we got this uh our first you know stand and we were in the end of the you know where they they have conferences in ice like

they put us [laughter] corner somewhere end of the in the small stand and and we had uh four uh promotion girls you know four we can

afford more like and they were very nice also they they were doing their job and and people were start coming you know like to the and and the interest even

though we were so far away, you know, we we would we get so much traction for like explaining. So it's it's very

like explaining. So it's it's very difficult to say why they would like buy this idea of crash games because crash games remember they were existing before they was like we didn't create crash

game like it was uh the other Georgian company that you know you know the smart they were before us you know in Georgian market of course we were first one to

take it globally this is different in Georgiaian market there was one company before them even in Georgia that you know had a crash game but it's not about who you made it first like if you look

at the Facebook right Facebook like MySpace was before Facebook I you know I listened one of the interviews of Mark Zuckerberg you know he said like it's not about being first like if you look

you know Blackberry remember Blackberry everyone were having Blackberry in US it was a phone with with buttons I don't know if you guys remember but it was everyone was having Blackberry where

there was no iPhone but where is the Blackberry now one knows so it's not about who is first you know it's not people think Oh, I'm going to be first.

Oh, it's my first idea. No, it's it's it's the execution also. It's like there many things in combination.

>> Yeah. I I'm I'm curious though cuz you managed to solve that problem where players went from not really paying attention to crazy crash games for many years to all of a sudden players being

obsessed with crash games. But not just being obsessed with Crash games, being obsessed with Aviator. For some reason, players prefer to play Aviator rather

than other games which are pretty much they look the same, the same mechanics on safe first on on face level. You they

look the same. Why do people at this point prefer to play?

>> I always say like when you ask me what do you do? I say I have my witch costume at night and I make a soup like a [laughter]

>> I have special with a big so you know like in short I always say I know I know you're very fit guy you know I I actually you know we are good friends and I I really admire you did the

marathon marathon right I mean that's crazy like I don't know how you do it uh but but it's great right but so imagine if you someone asks you like Pier how do

you do this man And you could say, "Oh, you can you can just work out once a week and it's be done." [laughter] No.

Right. You need to sleep at the same time most of the time. You have to eat right most of the time. You have to work out most of the time, right? You cannot

just run marathon without getting many things in combination, right? It's it's

like it's impossible like you cannot just be fit with just doing one thing.

Same with business, you know? To be a successful in business, you have to do many things in combination, right? You

have to do like a you know right marketing right management many many things that because when you look at aviator you know people like now makes make the similar copy games they're like

oh it looks the same they put aviator I don't want to mention names but something similar or it looks the similar they call it like different pilot or many many other words

>> but but the tech what goes behind behind behind the be you know the marketing that goes like look at us I mean we are you know we have the most champion ambassadors. I think everyone any

ambassadors. I think everyone any company has like globally. I mean we I don't know like obviously in I gaming we're the biggest one. So we we you know we we you know you come to our stands

you see we we have the most beautiful stands. We we do the you know we we

stands. We we do the you know we we bring we you know we we bring like stability to our partners. I'm always

going to the stands. I'm meeting them.

So it's many many things in combination.

You cannot just say oh you know if something looks like same like if you take a Coca-Cola bottle let's say Coca-Cola is the biggest drink in the world and I make the same Coca-Cola same

same you know looking bottle and it's and you try first of all you're going to taste will be different right it looks the same same with you know with us I mean the game experience is everything

we because we invest so much effort time money energy on on you know making the game experience so much better when you play the game you understand why like

you know we take let's open any copy and you will see the why because first of all when you come to Aviator you see 400,000 bets 400,000 bets every minute

you can imagine imagine this number just just 60 million players 60 million is like population of France you know imagine France playing so people feel this energy when they come they see like

bets you know so would you go to the restaurant which is empty or would you go restaurants It's hard to book. It's

full, right? Like

>> like the other restaurant could be so much nicer, looking nicer, but you want something that is, >> you know, so not accessible, so not easily accessible, right?

>> Same same when they come, they see so many people are betting. They see it's it's like it's it's a lifestyle now, you know. Yeah.

know. Yeah.

>> So that's that's that's the reason I think >> I I think you know if I could add one thing too um other companies might look at your success and they say we need to

create a game just like that and u piggyback off the success of that game thinking that it's all about the game and if they maybe undercut the commission a little bit then they will be able to you know steal some clients

and so on. But you know you mentioned earlier David your entrepreneurial uh journey and the spirit that you have and you mentioned something interesting earlier as well that when aviator was

nothing and you came to eyes and you had a hard time to get meetings you were reaching out on LinkedIn to people writing messages no one would reply to you and you still continue this gritty

outreach of this like really dirty um gritty work that you just had to do in order to find some form of success. or

traction. I would also put that in the mix as um just a successful as a trait of a successful entrepreneur as well that it's not down to just copying some

other product and then undercutting uh the fees but it's down to a lot of this like being willing to do the dirty work and maybe that's not seen always because

you mentioned you know you have the best hand you you invest a lot in UFC uh fighters you work a lot on the technology there's a lot of things happening But at the at the foundation, it is the

gritty work that comes down to it that I don't think many people are willing to do.

>> Yeah, I I I I actually agree with you.

And one more thing, like if you take like let's say UFC fighters, right? That

is like Pereira or any fighter big fighter, you know how much work they put in every day like they want to sleep, they don't want to, you know, they lazy to wake up, they want to go out, but they they have a and the the fighters

who have uh strong discipline, they win.

So in business is the same thing. You

need to have a discipline. So great

point you mentioned like for example like when you uh when we start you know we're talking about success right like sometimes success the big success it comes very fast six years ago you know I

could not raise 100,000 for 10% of equity of sprry would you buy 10% of sprite for 100,000 here [laughter] >> how would you >> you were trying to raise money like that >> I couldn't >> 1 million valuation >> 1 million valuation

>> and people said no >> they cannot they cannot sleep today then >> yeah exactly you Oh, I I took my phone and I have a lot of contacts in Georgia.

So, I would just call everyone I knew.

We were in K. They would come to KF. K

was a great party place. They would

party and the second day, you know, on the hangover, they would call me David.

You need to work a little bit on the product. Call me in three months. Like

product. Call me in three months. Like

when you polish it a little bit here and there, then you call me. That's that's

what And I'm so grateful that I couldn't raise. Imagine I could raise for

raise. Imagine I could raise for $100,000. [laughter]

$100,000. [laughter] So, so you know it's the idea of success is like not to lose touch with the reality and and what what you mentioned

now it's very interesting because yeah because we we we take it seriously we come even though we're successful we don't say oh you know like go like to

our partners like you know we you know we're big and no we we every time we try to be you know we try to know what's happening not try we know what's

happening we I personally know mostly all the founders. You know, I I'm trying, you know, I have a great relationship with the founders. We have

like 5,000 casinos, but I mean, I cannot know everyone obviously, but I know most of them. And and I I'm trying we're

of them. And and I I'm trying we're trying to be on top of things. You know,

some someone has a problem, someone has an issue. And with the price, you know

an issue. And with the price, you know what happened? Like people try to

what happened? Like people try to undercut us. You know what we did? Then

undercut us. You know what we did? Then

no one in the industry done we increased the prices. We increased the prices like

the prices. We increased the prices like eight months ago. Yeah. And and yeah, it was that one.

>> Yeah. But yeah, because because but the reason we increase it, not because we're greedy, but being greedy in the business, nothing wrong with that. I

mean, in the business, you have to be but greedy in a good way, not in a bad way. greedy. You have to build the value

way. greedy. You have to build the value and then but what we increase because we invest so much on marketing on promotion that we don't promote for when we

promote aviator when you see on UFC octagon aviator it's everyone gets a promotion you know all the markets we're not doing it for Brazil or for Europe it's every market in the world you know

gets and every operator also we don't say play here on the specific operator we say this is aviator so people Google what is this aviator It's everywhere and what's happening like who who are these

guys you know so this is things that and one more thing I want to mention also that we keep forgetting in in i gaming industry players I always say players

are the kinks players make a decision where to play not any operator not any platform provider any aggregator or for that matter any studio you know you can

create many games but players decides who what they want to players in Brazil players in Africa players in many many other markets Europe they they decide

where they want to play. So we we are the first company actually big companies told us this that we started to talk directly with the players because before like as this

exhibition here is great but here we only the you know industry professionals as we come we see who has this bigger stand who has this but what about the players players don't come here they

don't see it right so we were we decided let's do let's we're going to talk to the players we're going to explain who we are we're going to explain how you know stable great and and and fun things we can do for them because by the end of

the day we are in the entertainment industry you know this is entertainment you compete with Netflix you compete with YouTube you competes with any like entertainment in the world so people decide you know how much time they want

to spend here how many you know uh movies they want to watch or you know or YouTube or etc anything so we are in the in the entertainment industry so this is this is very important to understand so

if you show the players that you built something meaningful, they're going to they're going to respond and look what happened. So just but undercutting

happened. So just but undercutting something is not going to work. Copying

never works.

>> No, it's it's interesting. So you know on the game supplier world most game suppliers they will put their marketing spend on investing in meeting operators which are the customers. But then in

your case you kind of chose this B2B TTO toC model of where you are uh taking it a step further and not just relying on operators listing the game but then also

uh promoting the game directly to the players.

>> I want to uh shift the topic for a little bit. So

little bit. So >> obviously you created a massive success in a very short span of time. You

mentioned 60 million uh active monthly players.

>> 400,000 bets. Sorry. 400,000 bets every minute.

>> Every minute. 400,000.

>> Now we're talking 400,000. 400,000.

>> Yes. And you know just in this conversation millions of bets, right?

>> So >> we can do a quick calculation and you don't have to say numbers, but I'm just going to guess uh that we are talking in the range of hundreds of millions of uh

of euro um in GDR and potentially a bit and things like this as well. Yeah. And

in a when a company rises to becoming maybe um a unicorn very very quickly, there's always going to be a backside I think of that where others are wanting

to take a piece of that cake. Um a

couple of situations springs to mind with uh with Aviator here. You mentioned

the Georgian company called Sprribe LLC or something like this.

>> Aviator LLC. uh uh yeah sorry not aviator uh LLC that you've been in a long court case with for for some time um so just uh to sh focus on like the

backside of success for a while uh talk about to start off with here talk about this legal case that you had with a >> so I will explain yeah it's a great question actually and I know many people

want to see want to hear about it but right now we are in situation where [snorts] uh they made a copy exact copy like he

So in in short imagine they there you know the the the court was about logo that we stole their logo. There was like

not stole but copied their logo but now like uh you know they created exactly the same copy of the game with the same music. You know we have a lot of

music. You know we have a lot of copycats that looks like us and I don't have problem with that. Like you can make game that looks like us. You can

try to sell it. It's it's fine. But

these guys they're making much worse.

You know what they want to do? There was

the idea was to uh trick the players to lie to them to steal from the players by pretending that they are you know us and giving their own version of game which

is technically obviously [laughter] you know we spent five years for for perfecting the game you know it's you imagine 400,000 bets the tech behind it like it's it doesn't come like on one

day like okay I make a copy five software developers sit down and okay they made a copy So, so the the biggest thing what I don't like in this is not about the competition. I know I love

competition because everyone knows we own 90% of the market share. I mean, you know, Blask recently made a report 92 91. I don't have problem. I love, you

91. I don't have problem. I love, you know, competition because it makes us better. It makes us stronger. It makes

better. It makes us stronger. It makes

everyone stronger. But what I don't like is when when I value the our players so much. I, you know, I I respect them, but

much. I, you know, I I respect them, but they don't respect them because they think they're they don't understand. So

what the their idea is to make the same imagine making uh same games, same music, same everything. So players are confused. They don't know which one

confused. They don't know which one they're playing. And as we were talking,

they're playing. And as we were talking, they would sell it for a smaller, you know, uh commission and and people, you know, just you know, they they steal the

success of us by creating something similar. So in short, uh you know, we

similar. So in short, uh you know, we had the first customer in Georgia, remember? So again, no one no one wanted

remember? So again, no one no one wanted to be with us. Like I we even offered them at the beginning to be our partners. They said no, you know.

partners. They said no, you know.

[laughter] So so that's our first customer. So they think that just

customer. So they think that just because they were our first customers in Georgia, you know, they now they own the brand. But the funny part was like when

brand. But the funny part was like when we started is, you know, obviously we we were we were working there with them for a long time. Six years they didn't show up like or five years. Now they showed

up, you know, after we were successful.

Now they woke up where they were all this time if there were some issues.

This is number one. Second, we own the brand worldwide and aviator logo belongs to us and even belong to Georgia to us also. But you know what happened like I

also. But you know what happened like I don't want to talk about now Georgian government a lot. But unfortunately

there are issues right now as everyone can see you know like I'll tell you just two things. US government sanctioned top

two things. US government sanctioned top 20 Georgian judges for corruption, for rule of law, for lack of democracy. Then

UK uh it was I think six months ago UK government charge same did the same thing for these judges. So judges who make decisions by removing our logo of

which which legally belong to us like everywhere else in UK and many many other countries you know they're sanctioned by UK government. Now you you tell me like it's very simple to see you

know what's happening you know so and but but in general Georgia even though I'm from Georgia is not our market you know we don't operate in Georgia they

can do whatever they want now in UK you know we have we won the big case because injection so what happened is like the main case that is going on so there is two cases like no two one main case but

then we I started we started the second injection case so what's injunction means that there is some issues you you you uh say there is a damage happening

to my brand and we need to do something about it. So UK government agreed with

about it. So UK government agreed with us that this other company were damaging our reputation, the brand but obviously only in UK because UK UK judge can only

you know take a decision on UK territory but but the United Kingdom is one of the biggest and most uh developed IP uh

court in the world. So any many com you know companies from other countries go to UK for the final decision you know.

So when UK says something it's it means that you know it's like you know and the most important thing was analysis what the the judge did like judge in two days

did tremendous job he he wrote everything while he was there. So now we have a full injection. It's it's interm injection obviously before the main court. So what basically what is

court. So what basically what is injection? Court says they don't have a

injection? Court says they don't have a right to use word aviator or logo or sell to anyone or approach any company in UK because they decided that they were you know they were uh damaging our

reputation or name etc etc. It's a good win because now you know obviously we're going to multiply this through the it's going to take time but we're going to do the same thing in other jurisdictions.

Yeah. But UK is the biggest one. Yeah,

exactly.

>> So, so in short like I don't want to say like I'm right or wrong but idea was that we are small company small tiny startup six years ago

>> where they had a chance to buy 50% of Scribe even they didn't do it now they think oh we missed it and now let's you know this this is what it is I mean but the good thing is like bribe is a proud

owner of the brand of the logo and and and yeah I mean it will get take time but you know we uh We will see. I mean,

how it's going to go, but we won the injunction. We keep going.

injunction. We keep going.

>> Yeah. Exactly. So, you want that in a very strict uh kind of IP court that we lay a really strong foundation for future potential cases in other jurisdictions. And so, so that's that's

jurisdictions. And so, so that's that's how it is. Okay. Um, staying on the UK, uh, last week there were some maybe not so, uh, positive news in that regard

than that, uh, UKGC decided to suspend, uh, temporarily the license of, uh, Stripes Aviator in the UK market. Not

many details were announced by the UKGC.

Uh, what happened?

>> So, I So, yeah, I know I know a lot of people, it was a big big big news. Uh, a

lot of people want to hear. So, I'll try to make it as simple and short as possible. So bribe is taking very

possible. So bribe is taking very seriously the any uh regulations and we are you know licensed or we're certified in more than 50 jurisdictions like I call it right to operate some in some

jurisdictions you have to take certification some jurisdictions you have to have a license but we take it very seriously because you know we have a great team of you know of compliance

of legal team and we we take it seriously. So in short we have we are uh

seriously. So in short we have we are uh we have a remote operating license P2B license they call it from two 2020 in

UK. Okay. So now it's 25 so 5 years we

UK. Okay. So now it's 25 so 5 years we have a license we we pay taxes we you know we report all the files all the audit reports I mean they check I mean it's you know it's a bureaucratic

process right just to obtain the license and then also to you know to to to supply all the reports. So 5 years there was no issue because we were giving

first of all 2020 UK gambling commission gave us this license they knew what we were doing we didn't change anything we had aviator game that's it very simple

right so last week last Tuesday UK you know we have a email just that we need additional license so we have only one but to operate this type of

game we need now hosting license and we talked to them we had a one call with them we said listen we we didn't know this. You're just telling us now this

this. You're just telling us now this because this is I don't want to point the you know uh you know fingers but we were operating 5 years give us some

reasonable time at least one week they said no you we have to suspend it now you have to re you know reapply for additional license and they didn't say one month but my lawyers are telling me

that one month we can come come back so unfortunately it was maybe not a good decision from my end because I would just keep this license what I have now because we didn't violate anything. We

you know we paid everything we we filed all the audit reports everything it just creates some you know uh unnecessary noise around like but I don't know it's

their decision they said no we have to suspend you have to post it licenses temporarily suspend it and when you apply for this hosting license additional then we can so basically

there's two licenses we're working with one because before it was okay you know [laughter] you know for five years it was okay now they just show They said, "No, it's not okay. You need to get one more." I said, "Okay, give us the time."

more." I said, "Okay, give us the time."

They said, "No." We said, "Okay, we comply." And that's that's that's And we

comply." And that's that's that's And we are where we are now.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Because I think, you know, when the announcement came out, it's you know, it's not a nice headline.

>> Exactly. Right. Suspended because people assume that something bad has happened, but in reality, it's an oversight of the second hosting license. You're not aware of it. And in a month time, you'll be

of it. And in a month time, you'll be hopefully back. like I cannot even say

hopefully back. like I cannot even say anything to my legal team because I'm very like if if I like it's your problem because five years it was working this

way and I don't know why they now so if it's if it's a mistake I think it's it's not you know like we like we we apply for license they know what we're doing we didn't change anything it was

everything was fine and now we need hosting license so we'll take it also I mean you know we are bribe is very uh you know uh taking this matter seriously because we we respect the regulation

Obviously we respect that the fact that they allow us to operate in UK and we are very grateful for this and you know we will continue to try you know to be

as compliant as possible but in general like we asked for extension for and and we just heard it literally last Tuesday I mean it was like it was so fast

>> so this is like out of the blue you know like so it is what it is but I mean hopefully in one month we'll be back.

>> Yeah, good to clarify it. It's

interesting to hear as well. Thanks for

asking.

>> Let's shift focus as well. And so just back to what I mentioned before, the company almost from nowhere became hyper successful, right? You know, hundreds of

successful, right? You know, hundreds of millions potentially uh euro flowing through the company and um you know, massive success in the business and uh that's obviously what we see from the

outside. But I'm very curious to

outside. But I'm very curious to understand what happens to a company that all of a sudden experienced this like hyperinflux of money like you know

there's a famous rap song from the '90s right notorious BI more money more problems >> yeah you're right actually >> and so I want to ask you David is it true more money more problems >> yeah it's true it's true it's true

actually yes [laughter] because so so like I you know first of all I decided to we are a private company but I decided to be open not exactly how much inways we make but I I

I said listen let's let's let's say how much wager we do because you know in every I gaming company you know I know the industry very well now I have a lot

of friends we when we sit by you know by on the by the beer at the bar we always talk about the wager you know because wager and number of bets are the biggest

two measurement of success right I mean again it's the same thing if you are a great casino and but your your GGR is a major And then GGR is very small. I

mean, you cannot be great. I mean, you take the big big names in crypto casino.

I don't want to mention names, so I don't want to disappoint anyone, but we know the names, they're great names because they're doing great things. And

that's why they they're they're great. I

mean, you cannot be if you your product is great, you're doing everything great, then you know success is there. So the

monthly wager for aviator, I just say it for and then if you if you know the maths, you do the maths, it's very easy to calculate, you know. Okay. So it's

[laughter] it's So, so the monthly wager average now for for evator. So, what's

the wager? It's stake. So, how much >> money people bet on the game, right? A

month. Okay. So, it's it's 14 billion with a B.

>> 14 billion.

>> Yeah. Not with a M, with a B.

>> 14 billion with a B.

>> So, 14 billion. Yes. So, 14. So, it's

monthly wager that they put on the aviator, right? This is this is this is

aviator, right? This is this is this is something that everyone is like benefiting from. Like when we have 5,000

benefiting from. Like when we have 5,000 casinos, of course they love me also. I

have great relationships. I they love me. I love them. But but you know what

me. I love them. But but you know what they love? They love the partnership.

they love? They love the partnership.

They love how much value they can, you know, how much money they can make from from Sprite. This is the 14 billion they

from Sprite. This is the 14 billion they love. This is the 14 billion because

love. This is the 14 billion because when I say we are a monopolist, we dominate. This is this is what they love

dominate. This is this is what they love because they see the players keep coming. You know, one more thing also

coming. You know, one more thing also what happened. I don't want to mention

what happened. I don't want to mention names but interesting. the big casinos they at the beginning they turned off Aviator they created the same version of Aviator they did you know they did many

things you know what they found the players were losing they're leaving the platform they're going to and they're like come back please [laughter] >> renegotiation >> yeah can you come let's go I'm sorry I'm

sorry I didn't mean it no this it's it's it's it's like so common in many markets in many markets big brands of course I'm so because because the idea is like we We're trying to talk to the players.

We're trying to if you go to YouTube, you write word aviator and you know YouTube algorithm is like you have to refresh the page. You cannot refresh the page. You go down, it's going to be

page. You go down, it's going to be aviator. So there's so many people

aviator. So there's so many people streaming from all over the world. So

going back to wager and success. So 14

billion. You imagine the number man.

It's like [laughter] it's crazy money to the moon.

>> Exactly. So uh it's a it's a month like in a year you can multiply. It's even

crazier a number, right?

So this is we are where we are. The

biggest issue I think in in um in uh startups like this as you said when you were very small you become very successful that then you know if people

start trying like founders have issues then you know some people like trying to make you know some they make some money and they think like they're too cool or you work so much I work so much you know

is this is the worst thing what can happen actually it happen trust and then and company go bankrupt like it's so easy by achieving big success and go

down. So I know this in our company till

down. So I know this in our company till now we we try to we are like family and we will keep it like family because this is this is the something we do you know like uh we take it very seriously again

because >> uh again like Blackberry was also very successful you know Kodak was very remember Kodak everyone was taking pictures of Kodak where where's the Kodak or or Nokia phone remember Nokia

phone everyone has Nokia phone it still exists but I mean so >> like we don't take this like uh as granted No, no. So,

>> and but and I mean, you know, all of a sudden hundreds of millions of you are flowing into the company. You know,

other businesses that are that have this type of turnover, it takes decades to get to that point. So, they can grow organically, they can, you know, build out their company, maintain finances,

treasury, so on and so forth. But in

your in your case, all of a sudden, boom, you know, like how do you how do you even manage that type of money?

Because I would imagine I would imagine that there's like wealth managers all of a sudden reaching out to you. Yes. Yes.

Yes. We will manage your wealth and oh my god you know how do you in this environment how do you trust but then at the same time you have like all this money that needs to be maintained somehow like >> I mean so >> how does it how does it work you know?

>> Yeah. I'll tell you one thing also that we uh you know I don't think about it that much right now to to to uh maybe I should but uh what I'm thinking about like let's say reinvesting in like

wealth management or something you know right now we are very uh active I have uh you know I always say if when you wake up in the morning and you're not scared of your plans you have to change your plans you have to be scared like

when you when you just chill every day you're just relaxing yeah it's it's also good some people choose that and it's Nothing wrong with that, right? You live

in a nice area, you have a nice air, you walk up in the morning and it's fine with us. I don't know. Fortunately,

with us. I don't know. Fortunately,

unfortunately, we're very ambitious. I

have now I'm scared of my plans right now. I am scared of my plans and what

now. I am scared of my plans and what I'm trying to do next five years is going to be we we just touch the surface of the of the I gaming industry because I have some crazy things what I want to

do and and I would rather invest all this money that I have to the to the to the industry you know like in five years you know I'm 48 now in five years maybe I'll relax I'll try to be you know buy

stocks and give money to the bus managers or something but right now basically what I'm trying to say we're very active we have some excite exciting products coming in like Broadway for example you know Broadway is it it it

took longer than we thought and I'm I I will never be afraid of say that you know you can you know you have to accept that you make mistakes not mistakes mistake of planning something sooner

because you know it's a software it's so difficult to build right I mean we have I don't know like 80 100 people working only on Broadway every month we spend at

least 600 700,000 a month just for the Broadway you know for the investment but we couldn't build it yet the way I mean we it's a great product it's one of the

best in the industry we we are scribe we want to make it the number one of course I mean top three at least you know but number one and to do it you know it's so hard because you have this legacy

projects which are great we know who they are they are very good in the industry but they built 20 years ago you know 25 years ago 15 years ago some of

them and and they're very hard to adapt you know this this but now 21st century I gaming demands other things and we hope we can solve this problem again you

know by you know because right now the in in this business someone has this good someone has this I'm I'm not going to mention what but some features right some so we're trying to build a platform

that we will solve the features of everyone's issues like you know so we will so when you come to us we will have the solution for all the for all the issues.

>> Yeah.

>> And that's that's our next big thing >> to come.

>> Well, then let's talk about money and happiness. Uh so you have a pretty

happiness. Uh so you have a pretty unique insight here, David. Obviously,

as you mentioned before, you've always been entrepreneurial. You've always done

been entrepreneurial. You've always done somewhat well and so on. Uh but this is a whole another level of financial success of course. And so I want to ask

you um does money uh make you happy?

>> Of course, man.

>> So So there we go. So, so, [laughter] no. So, so let So, you know, when people

no. So, so let So, you know, when people say money doesn't buy happiness, it's it's a BS. I'll tell you why. It's it it buys happiness. Of course, if you're

buys happiness. Of course, if you're angry person, no money will make you happy. No money. I mean, if you're an

happy. No money. I mean, if you're an angry person, if you're, you know, you just like pitching it about life and trying to find everything negative, you no, of course. But but if you are a

happy person and then money makes you do things that you want to do imagine like you have like you want to travel for example right and but travel is a different ways of travel right and

travel somewhere and then and then you can do any all of that but of course people say oh you know you can buy a lot of cars or you can buy and after some point of time you cannot buy anymore I

mean how many cars can you have how many but the point is not about the cars the point is like that you are free to do whatever you want. You know when I was

uh uh young one smart guy told me David you have to first thing you have to do is your money. I said what is your money? You know when people come

your money? You know when people come and tell you things that you don't like you tell them you know you [laughter] your a money. So

the first thing you have to make money that you can allow yourself not to do things you don't want to do you know. So

like you're not in a job that you don't want to do. you're not in a business when you enjoy things you know. So me

for example I I'm uh they like I was asked all the time like why do you work David? Like you can be anywhere you know

David? Like you can be anywhere you know because I enjoy it.

>> Yeah >> and and it's not like I don't you know I don't have to work of course but I don't first of all I don't work right now I don't this is a pleasure for me you know it's of course it's a stress. I want to

say a couple things about stress. I

think uh we take stress wrongly you know like especially uh you know for men like for the industry like if you look at the stress or for women also not for but

mostly in our industry are men for for some reason mostly I don't know why but we are dominant like maybe there's 5% of women here but you know like if you look at the industry that's stressful then

it's going to be stressful but if you look at the industry that stress is good for you because some people say oh stress is going to kill you. But what if it's stress not going to kill? What if

it makes you stronger? What if and then and then you enjoy it, you know? So, so

I have stress. Of course I have stress.

Like what? I'm not going to tell you I'm not going to, you know, I have so many court cases, you know. [laughter]

You know, it's like as you said, more money, more problem. Of course, I have stress. But, but if you look at the

stress. But, but if you look at the stress, it's a fun thing to have. You

know, >> sometimes it's is difficult. Then it's

easy. So, so money going back to your question by buys happiness. If you want to be happy, this is the key. If you if you if you choose not to be happy, no money will make you happy, man. You'll

be angry, you know, grumpy person, you know, old and and you know, as they say, you becoming old when you decide to become god when you tell yourself I'm old, you you you'll be old. Same thing

with the money. You can you you have to enjoy life and then it's good.

>> Yeah. So, someone said that money is like an amplification of your personality. So, if you're a good

personality. So, if you're a good person, you become better. Like if

you're a bad person, you became worse.

>> You know, as like you're saying, if you're unhappy, you become less happy.

>> Little bit. Also, I would add like, you know, I think money does change you.

There's no one that money doesn't change. There's, you know, when people

change. There's, you know, when people say, "Oh, it's if you're a good person, money doesn't change you." No, it's BS.

I think not BS, but I think the money changes you for sure. I mean, there's no way. But how do they change you? It can

way. But how do they change you? It can

change you in a better way, right? I

mean, it can cannot change. Money

changes you. There's no other way. Yeah.

And as you said, there's money, there's, you know, there's two different levels.

You going different link. Of course,

it's going to change you, but you can become better. You can become much, you

become better. You can become much, you know, much wiser, you know, because when you when you are young, when you're when you're starting out, maybe you're not like me also. I was not maybe so wise.

Yeah. But now I'm becoming more and more, you know, like uh smarter in many ways. And of course, this experience

ways. And of course, this experience makes you smarter, right? As you said, like this big success makes you smarter.

Like it's >> Yeah. But there must be a backside to

>> Yeah. But there must be a backside to this as well. You I would imagine that when you're all of a sudden become this profile with that amount of money, people want to take advantage of you. Do

you have this sense of like >> sometimes not being sure what people's intention are?

>> Yeah. Well, uh what one thing what what is it is like >> uh it's very hard to make friends.

>> Yeah. I imagine so. Yeah. Because you

don't know >> because when you are like let's say in the middle in the middle. So but you're successful like there's like let's say >> I don't know how to say middle in a good way but you know you are you know you

you have a same level of people around you let's say then then you don't have any issues everyone is happy you are happy >> so what I found you know what I found that people are jealous you know why because

>> they they they see what you have and they they want what they what they want the same thing and they're angry that they don't have it and they they're angry at you why you have it you know >> yeah they become angry instead of like

instead of being inspired.

>> Yeah. Because not everyone, but that's what I found. Many people this jealousy comes out of course and they try to get like they're angry at you because you have something they don't have >> and they want to take advantage of it.

This is the this is the main issue. But

I mean you still you know you you you know you still have I I think I have very good friends. I you know and uh I think I think there not everyone is like that you know there's of course like

majority of the people going to be angry and jealous and but you still have people like that are really genuine and I'm very happy that you know I still have it but answer to your question yes there are many people who want to take

advantage of it but >> also you know what you know good thing is that I also learned to say no so you have to say no before being nice is not always good you know being nice people

take advantage of it you can say know let's say relatives or someone you know like they come oh please finance this business or finance and this is nontop you know it's not about the money it's

about this time that you spend on this non useless projects you know >> yeah yeah >> and yeah so >> yeah exactly yeah I I can imagine that that there's a lot of strange

conversations and requests and so on that comes from maybe people that uh you have somewhere in your past that is like resurfacing in your life and so on not easy to navigate that mad sometimes. I

yeah I I I don't know like I want to just add one more thing is what you said like what I found also that it doesn't matter you have money or not but before I didn't know this but I learned this

after I I got successful that there's the worst things are toxic people you don't it doesn't matter it's your family it's going to be your brother sisters toxic people will always try to drag you

down always and and this is and and and before I was nice and I felt it But you know maybe they didn't they didn't want to attack me because there was no much

point to attack me. But now when I'm successful now they they do they become more like greedy and become more but in general like uh toxic people is something that you need to get rid of as

a human being. Doesn't matter it's your family or friends and then when we grow up we change. We I'm not the same person 20 years ago. No when I had friend like I don't know like 30 years ago from

childhood and the guy didn't grow up. I

grew up but he stayed there. So he has he thinks the same way like 30 years ago and I cannot connect with him even though he's my friend. I can help him but I'm not gonna you know give my

precious time even to invite him somewhere or spend time with because he's going to be toxic. He's going to try to put put me down. So I I would rather surround myself to the people who

can motivate me and I can feel good. So

if you you know if someone calls you and you say ah like this you should just drop this guy. I mean this is what I learned and this is it's harsh but it's reality you know either you do it and

you just drop everyone that who puts you down you know or or you are unhappy then you know so so this is what I learned before I didn't know this I thought I should be nice I should like oh it's my

friend oh it's my brother oh it's my this like you know so >> yeah yeah I think like it's important to be a a genuinely good person to people but uh it's so important to have

boundaries then Right? So you're a good person, good sending good energy out there, but you have to have boundaries like if there are a person if you have a good sense of people who have other intentions, there's boundaries there. I

absolutely agree with you.

>> Yeah. And it's not not everyone have that sense of understanding who is good and who is bad. And you know, you see a lot of successful people perhaps that are falling into this trap of going into

these toxic environments because the toxic people are the first ones who will be there saying the right words. you

know, they'll be they'll be there, they'll they'll come back, they'll they'll do nice thing to to get your influence and then before you know it, you're surrounded by this like bad kind of group of people. Yeah,

>> I agree with you.

>> That's easy. To start rounding things off here a little bit, David, I I do have um two more questions for you here.

>> Sure.

>> First and foremost, >> Scribe, you know, in its rise is a very straightforward company. You know, uh

straightforward company. You know, uh Aviator is the product that is generating most of the revenue. It's one

game, you know, it's a lot of complexity around it, but nonetheless, it's not a very complex organizational structure with different revenue streams. It's one revenue stream, >> which makes it perfect as an acquisition target.

>> Have you been close to being acquired at some point?

>> Yes. Yes, I was. Yes.

>> Yeah.

>> Anything you can go into?

>> Well, uh there was I don't want to mention, but there was one one of the biggest companies in I gaming. We were

very close but we didn't uh close because you know valuation was very very big obviously it was like a couple billions but you know but the what I

didn't like is um the uh final part uh of the deal. So basically you know it is like these big acquisitions the way it works they buy let's say 50% first then they buy then you work for them for like

you know for the company for two three years and the second part comes after.

So I I don't like the cap on the on the earnings. So if I work for someone and

earnings. So if I work for someone and they put a cap on my earnings, they say, "Okay, even if you let's say your bida grows to so much, you're still going to make so much." I said, "Why?" I mean, it's not fair, right? I mean, so this is

one of the things, but I also want to mention that we have we were approached by two of the biggest private equity firms also farm firms like, you know, US-based I can say two big ones, very

big ones.

>> Might start with black. [laughter]

They're not going to put that to mention your names, but but the biggest and and and they didn't want to buy us, but they say we want to hear your story. Can you

tell us your like great story? And we

met couple times and they know to be honest, I'm not rushing uh you know to to uh to exit because I think that we're becoming so big now is so difficult to

buy us. I understand this like you can

buy us. I understand this like you can imagine the valuation now and and like who who can afford it. I mean there's no one in there's one company I think in I gaming that that can do it or maybe two

you know because then you have to do a IPO which I'm thinking maybe to do it but but maybe in one or two years >> uh because I think it's a you know we we

can I don't want to just do IPO just for IPO you know I want to do something really successful and I think like we have 60 million players imagine like they just they will buy shares because

we have fans they love aviator you know so we And you know it it could be quite big >> for IP. So I'm thinking more to IPO than to to to the exit to be honest. right

now because we're we're too big, you know, just it's too difficult now to anyone. And as you said, like people see

anyone. And as you said, like people see it's, you know, one game and because one game we have other games, but the idea is like the revenue is so big on this

game and the other games revenue for average company is also big, but nobody cares about the the mines and gold and all these turbo games. Even though they make like maybe 10% of our revenue, but

10% is quite big also, you know, for [laughter] for any company, but no one cares about it. But yeah, we we're one big uh Yeah.

>> Yeah. Exactly. So I mean if you IPO in like in like a year or two like what would you think the target valuation will be at?

>> So So it's all about the multiplier, right? So like like average multiplier

right? So like like average multiplier for for starting in the IPO is 15 times of revenue.

>> 15 times 15 times revenue. Net was part by the net was 20 something already.

>> Yeah. So let's say 15 12.

>> So if you take like maybe at least 5 billion at least maybe maybe seven.

We'll see. Depends on the new things we're going to add now, you know. We'll

see. What I want to do actually will be ideal to bring some more businesses and do it like in a package, you know. But

even if I don't do IPO, it's it's still a great business, right? I mean the most important thing is for us is to not to lose the sense with reality and just keep growing keep doing like what

whatever like Facebook for example meta is doing right it's a great company like I love meta I own the stock also I love what they do and the mark is a great leader I mean what he keeps building it

take Dana White I love Dana White you know I know him personally and he's genius man he what he did in in in UFC was small tiny they bought it for $2

million Yeah. And look like their valuation

Yeah. And look like their valuation maybe is 20 billion now and he keeps he he also can relax you know can but he enjoys what he does and I'm not comparing myself to anyone but we do the

same thing you know we we have some great ideas we want to keep building.

>> I'm not thinking about exiting or you know or or but IPO I could I could do it if I do it correctly. So

>> yeah there there are so many more questions that I would like to ask you David. I know that we have a time limit

David. I know that we have a time limit here, but I'm going to limit myself to the final question of today. Where do

you see the company in 3 years time? You

talk a lot about now building out and coming up with new products and so on.

If you imagine yourself sitting next to me at the podcast here in 3 years time, how would you explain your company at that point?

>> So, in short, I think uh we we grew so much. Now, we a little bit uh for the

much. Now, we a little bit uh for the last couple months, we we're not growing that much. uh you know I'm not afraid to

that much. uh you know I'm not afraid to say it because like 14 billion is is is big is amount you know since you cannot just jump like this but what I think so

in three years would happen that uh I'm going to ask you a question what what do you think like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg has to do with the gammic and with us you know what they do

satellite internet and and the satellites that will come more and more people will have access internet and it will grow whole gaming especially us so right how uh uh I don't know the numbers

but if you take India for example they're you know uh the 50% of the population don't have the internet right or or so so that's why they do satellite internet you know the Facebook wants to

have more customers you know then and etc etc but for not only for us but the whole i gaming industry >> more internet in three years more you know more more development of the

technologies will bring more customers so I think the growth for us will be in next two three years by you know bringing because we are now mostly everywhere. There's no there's no casino

everywhere. There's no there's no casino that don't have aviator. I mean, if if the market allows it, right?

>> So, my my big thing is is related to this the satellite internet de development. And I think we're going to

development. And I think we're going to have more customers and and one more thing like uh Africa is developing economically. India now becoming same

economically. India now becoming same like China 10 years ago. But you know what chi China for example you know you have so many millionaires and billionaires in China because they they made so many factories you know new

newcomers and India now it's becoming like Apple moved to India now many factory companies moving because China becoming very expensive you know China producing so much products that it's so

expensive now a lot of developments goes to India if India becomes as China with a big strong middle class with new millionaires it will become big for you know because it's 1.5 billion people

Right. I mean so and Africa is the same

Right. I mean so and Africa is the same thing. Africa is showed like 8 n 10%

thing. Africa is showed like 8 n 10% growth for last five six years you know it's so basically idea is more economic growth will more will make more funds for entertainment including the eye

gaming.

>> David it's been an absolute pleasure the two years wait was worth it. Thank you

for sitting down with me. Absolute

pleasure and congratulations to all the success David.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you be thank you for having me.

Thank you.