Death of the finished state ft. Brent David Freaney (Special Offer) | Config 2026

Hi, config. Um, hi, my name is Damian Carell. I have the great privilege of

Carell. I have the great privilege of leading the incredibly talented Figma brand studio team here. Shout out. Um,

uh, so happy to happy and excited to be here. Um, I'm also really excited to

here. Um, I'm also really excited to introduce our next speaker. Brent is an art director at Special Offer. From the

process behind a single shade of green that defined a summer to the systems thinking that holds together large-scale creative campaigns, Brent's done it all.

He'll share how he approaches design work that spans albums, magazines, live media, and pushes visual culture. Please

help me in welcoming him to the stage.

[music] Hey everybody, thank you for coming. I'm

happy to have you here.

Um, as Damian mentioned, my name is Brent David Freeny. I am an art director and I have a studio practice uh called Special Offer. And the main thing that

Special Offer. And the main thing that we do in special offer, one of the main things we do is to kind of help artists design album artworks and identities around their album so that when we have

um campaigns to launch that there is a really tight and succinct system. Um so

think about brand guidelines, think about you know typography and color, we sort of help to define all of those things and kind of cradle that um album in that. At the same time, I'm also the

in that. At the same time, I'm also the global art director of ID magazine. So,

ID Magazine is a magazine founded by a hero of mine, another art director, Terry Jones, in August of 1980.

Um, and for people who are unfamiliar with ID, what I like to say is that ID is a, let me see if I get this right, a visual and anthropological survey of

what is going on in culture at the moment in which the magazine is printed.

So, thank you. the amount of times that I had messed that up in the last two days when I'm in my room thinking about this. But anyway, um so that's ID

this. But anyway, um so that's ID magazine.

Um I've had the privilege of working with a lot of really great artists and doing a lot of really fun work. Um you

know, I've been a designer for about 24 years now, I would say. Um I'm not going to tell you my age yet, so you don't have to do the math. But I it has been later in my career that I've really gotten into doing album artworks on sort

of the scale that I'm able to do it at now. I started as a website design and

now. I started as a website design and developer. Um, figuring out how to copy

developer. Um, figuring out how to copy and paste little HTML snippets together.

Um, and that's sort of I guess my background.

I've been able to work with people like Miley Cyrus, um, Tamman Paula on their album Deadbeat.

Recently, Rosalia on her album Lux.

That was a really fun one. Um, next week we have Madonna's album, Confessions on a Dance Floor Part Two, coming out, which is I I can't you guys. I I mean, to get a call from Madonna, you're like,

"Uh what?

Are you sure?"

Okay. Um, but I think that what people probably know my studio and and and me a little bit more or forward the most, um, is that we helped Charlie X to design an

album called Brat.

Um, which actually was designed in Figma, by the way.

[cheering] You guys are a good crowd. I'm happy. I

was like, if they don't laugh at the jokes, if they're not into it, I am. But

you you're doing you're you're keep up your end of this bargain for the next 15 20 minutes, please. Um, before we talk about Brad, before we talk about sort of the design process behind Brat, I wanted

to talk a little bit about culture and sort of experiencing culture and also fandom and about how I truly believe that fans are the people that built the internet um through forums, through, you

know, uh, different communication styles. I think that like fans are the

styles. I think that like fans are the reason why um, musicians are able to do what they do and I think that they're one of the most important pieces of the entire ecosystem.

This is a photo of me in 1999. I was 14.

You now can do the math. Actually, that

joke didn't work. Um, and I had no friends, which is a joke that doesn't really land sometimes because I think people are like a But the reality was I didn't really want any. I was like

really just into I I just wasn't on the same wavelength. It wasn't it wasn't

same wavelength. It wasn't it wasn't working, you know, there there weren't a lot of people around me that I related to. There wasn't a lot of people that

to. There wasn't a lot of people that related to me. Um, and that was okay.

Okay, it was totally fine. Um, I grew up in a city outside of New Orleans, about an hour away. So, New Orleans is kind of, you know, within arms reach. We went

to the airport, we went to New Orleans.

If we went, you know, school shopping, we went to New Orleans and stuff. But

ultimately, um, you know, I was across the lake and, you know, about an hour away. When you're thinking about New

away. When you're thinking about New Orleans, you might be thinking about Bourbon Street, Marty GR, and the sort of rich culture, I guess, that New Orleans sort of has around it, which is such an amazing and sort of perfect

melting pot. Uh, but the reality is is

melting pot. Uh, but the reality is is that in Long Beach, Mississippi, the vibe was a little bit more like that.

And this is actually gorgeous. I got

this in like I was like looking tumble weeds and I was like actually this is what I want to put up. And then but yeah, but the reality was it was actually more like this Martin Parr photo that I've always been

obsessed with. Um, but the thing that

obsessed with. Um, but the thing that kind of, you know, really kept me going as I was growing up and the thing that I was really really um into was the television.

and trying to absorb all that I could from the television at any given point in time and specifically MTV. MTV had a

was a way for me as a young child um early teen to be able to interact and engage with and receive um information

about culture and um pop culture and fashion and identity and obviously music. And it was sort of a way that I

music. And it was sort of a way that I could get myself out of where I was and just sort of understand what was going on in the sort of larger scheme of things.

I was really obsessed with MTV. You

could find me watching it at all hours of all time, all night, no sleeping, just MTV, MTV, MTV. Probably to a fault that my parents should have been a little concerned, but good on them for

not being. Um, my favorite show on MTV

not being. Um, my favorite show on MTV and the thing that I was the most obsessed with was a show called The Real World. And The Real World was a show

World. And The Real World was a show about seven kids 18 to 24 that got put together inside of a house. And, you

know, it was the first episodic reality show that ever existed. And it was sort of done in a documentarian style. So

throughout the season, you were able to sort of see the conversations these people would have, the fights they might have, the um different, you know, interactions that they might have. And I

found sort of through all the seasons of the real world myself in each and every one of the cast and I could sort of relate to all of these people. And so

these people became friends. I mean

parasocial friends. They did not know I existed. But I was obsessed. Here's the

existed. But I was obsessed. Here's the

intro.

This is the true story.

True story.

And seven strangers [laughter] picked to live in a house have their lives changed. Lucy, I'm

home.

To find out what happens when people stop being polite and start getting real. The real world, San Francisco.

Round of applause for the real world.

Um, so the real world at, you know, when I was a teenager had probably had eight seasons. It went from New York to Los

seasons. It went from New York to Los Angeles, um, to San Francisco to London to Miami to Boston to, you know, all over the place. And it was always seven new people and always they were seven

different types of people that had not really been on, you know, a uh had been on a season prior. It was always a different type of person. And so it was a way for me to be able to understand

and and and meet a range of people and kind of understand the perspective of a range of people. So when I was in ninth grade, we found out that it was shooting

in New Orleans. And so I quite literally lost my I was like, "What? What do

you mean? And every single day I started having my mom drive me to New Orleans so that I could stand in front of the house

and see what was going on, see cast members, try to talk to them, production crew, just trying to see any sort of activity and energy there. And I would spend hours outside of this place. Side note,

I was really into men's jewelry at the time. It was like I was like, "You want

time. It was like I was like, "You want a hemp necklace? I'm going to make you a hemp necklace." And so I would sit

hemp necklace." And so I would sit outside of this house and I would just make hemp necklaces for the cast members.

[snorts] Which is like truly the nerdiest thing that like could exist.

You can see my sister here being like, "What are we doing?" Right?

Um, so I would attach my address to these to these necklaces and throw them up on the on the stoop and you know over the course of weeks, a couple weeks, nothing really ever happened. They shut

down production. They, you know, they they finished filming the season and then, you know, they they went on to edit it and kind of make it the thing or whatever. And um, I was always a little

whatever. And um, I was always a little sad that I had never really gotten to have that, you know, sort of breaking through the fourth wall experience that I think that I was really trying to have. Um, so then one day I'm at home

have. Um, so then one day I'm at home probably watching television or something. I remember my mother, my

something. I remember my mother, my grandmother, uh, my sister were all there and my mom comes in with a letter that she had found and it was one of the members of the cast had sent me a letter

and a couple of years ago and I don't really remember this being the case. Um

my mother during COVID got a lot of videos uh digitized and there was a video or a film of this entire or you know a short clip of this

entire interaction of me receiving the necklace and so I'm going to play it for you. [snorts]

you. [snorts] [cheering] Um I scream a lot in it.

Um, but let's just cut to it here. Get a knife and open it so you

here. Get a knife and open it so you don't mess up the envelope.

Hey, Brent, go jump down the hole like you did so I can see. Now, Carla, hand him the letter.

Listen, HE'S GOING TO DO IT when he sees what's in here. Come on.

No, but let's open it.

Hand him the letter.

Oh, what if she has a picture?

CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?

It's okay. YOU READ IT.

That's when I spilled water on it in the moment.

SHE [screaming] GO SHE'S WEARING IT IN AN INTERVIEW ON THE REAL WORLD.

Let me see. Let's finish.

[laughter] You can see my sister getting mad here.

Can you email me when you get this and tell me where I met you so that I can remember when I tell my friends about this?

She did say she met me.

It's Melissa Howard.

Look for princess.com.

She thinks he's like her age and and she met him out somewhere.

Well, that's all right.

She's wearing that.

She's wearing that necklace.

She think I just WANT TO GO SEE IT. She's wearing

summer.

No, I just let him DO IT FIRST. [screaming]

YOU KNOW, he gets everything.

[cheering and applause] I mean, truthfully, my sister is the star of that entire thing. Like,

um, and it was just so insane that, you know, all of a sudden, a couple of years ago in 2020, my mom got these tapes digitized. I remember this moment so

digitized. I remember this moment so clearly. It was such a pivotal moment in

clearly. It was such a pivotal moment in my life. And to be able to then be given

my life. And to be able to then be given I'm not even not going to cheer up. um

to be able to give it to be able to be given it and to be able to show what it was and to be able to see the moment that I could picture so clearly in my mind from you know 30 years ago was just

truly the most I was you know astounded.

Um through that letter I became pen pals with the cast member and we you know would exchange mix CDs and she would show me um different you know uh artists

that I might like and you know she talk about fashion with me. Um but one of the most important things or the more important things that we kind of went through is that at the end of that letter a second ago you pro you might have heard it but she was launching her

website which was called princesselissa.com.

princesselissa.com.

And so this is preocial media this is preocial networking and everything. It

was just a her little corner of the world that she had figured out how to copy and paste HTML snippets together to be able to make a blog that people could follow along and sort of see what was

going on um you know in her life post the real world. Um and I would look at it every single day. I would read about it. I would I would I would read it. I

it. I would I would I would read it. I

would just try to um get all I could from it. I could tell that after the

from it. I could tell that after the show aired that that she was, you know, I sort of modeled my sense of humor after her. I felt that we were very akin

after her. I felt that we were very akin and there was a such a correlation and I also felt that she was she knew that there was a semblance between us and that she was able with that letter to

sort of reach through the television and grab me and say, "Hey, you know, we're going to make sure that you get to where you need to go."

So she moved to Los Angeles, spent her time kind of forming community there, building up her life there. And the

moment that I could, when I turned 18, I also moved to LA because I'm a crazy person.

Um, we weren't talking anymore by this point, by the way. This is like four years later. And I wasn't honestly like,

years later. And I wasn't honestly like, you know, that's an over simplification of what happened. But I just, you know, through Princessmills.com and through then my experience on building websites

for myself and learning how to sort of, you know, start blogs on my own and and meeting other people that were into bands that I was then into and kind of finding community. A lot of those people

finding community. A lot of those people all lived in in Los Angeles from these fan, you know, message boards. And so I knew that if I got there that that's where a community of people sort of, you

know, would be for me to be able to uh sort of be friends with and sort of see on a daily basis and really kind of like be in it with. And so when I was 18, I moved to LA. Um didn't really know

anybody. I actually didn't move to LA. I

anybody. I actually didn't move to LA. I

moved to West Coina, which is not LA, you might know. Um it's LA County, though. So I was like, why is rent so

though. So I was like, why is rent so cheap? But you know, you get it. Um, and

cheap? But you know, you get it. Um, and

I spent the next 15 years living in LA and really just making friends and working within the community of people that I thought were interested in the things that I was um that I was interested in that they were making

things that I wanted to help. And I used design as a way to kind of help other people do their thing. So, if I had a friend that was starting a a clothing line, I knew that I could use design to kind of figure out how to make a logo

and export it into the things that I needed and, you know, and put it on a on a shirt. If I had a friend that was in a

a shirt. If I had a friend that was in a band and they needed a tour poster, I would, you know, kind of put it together in some sort of scrappy way and be like, "Here, I think this is what it can look

like." But I never really learned or

like." But I never really learned or never really knew what I was doing. I

was just really interested in being around people and and and being able to help them and sort of usher the things that they wanted to do in like a true collaboration.

So, basically what I did for the next 15 years was just kind of hang out. Here's

me hanging out with a lot of friends.

I'm hanging out here.

This is a haircut that I had for a second.

So, that was really sad. At one point, I even started a band with some friends.

Um, it was not good. I was not good at it, but I wore this sailor hat every day. I thought that that was like the

day. I thought that that was like the vibe. Um

vibe. Um anyway, the point that I'm sort of making is that I really design was an afterthought for me. It was something that I used to be able to help and communicate and collaborate with other

people that were already making things with. So I did that for a very long time

with. So I did that for a very long time uh sort of living in LA just kind of hanging out doing the thing and eventually 15 years later I'm just going to cut forward. You can imagine that a

lot of stuff happened and there was a lot of stuff that happened. um were in 2023 and I get a message from um a colleague

or a friend that I kind of made named Imagene who was a creative the creative director for Charlie XCX and I knew who Charlie was. I knew kind of the vibe of the music but I wasn't

really like I wouldn't really call myself a you know I didn't really I knew that I knew the hits. I, you know, I wasn't really a a big fan, but I thought that what she was doing was cool and I thought that she was interesting. And I

was also kind of like, hell yeah. Like,

somebody wants me to make a, you know, album artwork for them. Like, first of all, why me? Because I'm a website designer and that's kind of what I do

for a job.

Um, and they sort of said, you know, we want a typographic album. We want

something that feels like design. We

want something that is not, you know, like what's going on in the rest of sort of the landscape in 2024. So,

I sort of took a lot of the things that they sort of talked about, the things that they had kind of defined as a personality structure for Brat, um things that, you know, kind of Brat was

and Brat wasn't. And I just brought it into Figma and was like, "All right, let me try to figure this out." Um, I'm going to share my screen now to show a

couple of things if we can switch there.

That's a [cheering] Yeah. Hell yeah.

Yeah. Hell yeah.

Okay.

So I whenever I start a project, whenever I get first get a project, the thing that I do is to go through the library of images that I have been collecting and I

collect a lot of images. Whether that's

things on uh Instagram that I see or on the internet that I see or if it's things on the street, I take a lot of photos of signs. I take a lot of photos of just like everything just trying to kind of hoard digitally all of the

things that I like that I think are cool that might might just see during the day. Um, and so anytime I go through a

day. Um, and so anytime I go through a project or every time I start a project, knowing what that project is in my mind and thinking about what the main pieces of that might be or look like or what

the personality of that project is, I'll go through, let me see if I have it here.

I will go through my library and this is this year's library for example and I will just in my mind say great is this it? No. Is this it? No. Is this it? No.

it? No. Is this it? No. Is this it? No.

Is this it? No. No. No. No. No. Yes. No.

No. No. No. For, you know, 2,000 images or however many I've collected that year.

Um, and the reason I bring this up specifically is to let you know that I think that like as a designer, our real work is not in the actual design itself, but in the collecting of

ideas and design and being able to be inspired and see other things and to take it into your brain and and this is the work. The work is not spending time

the work. The work is not spending time on the computer doing the thing and trying to get the thing right. Trying

The work is in experiencing and trying to take it all in and and really just consuming media and content to like the, you know, craziest degree. Um, so I did

that and I came up with some things for Brat that I knew was right. Uh, Charlie was always really prescriptive. She knew she wanted it to say brat. She knew she

wanted it to be green. Um, and so with such a specific, you know, directive in mind, I just sort of kind of tried to start building things that I thought could

help with the world around what the album cover was going to end up being ultimately, knowing that it was going to be simple, simple, and typographic and, you know, sort of thing. But there was so much more that I needed to build from

the ground up to be able to understand how this vinyl packaging was going to be able to work in so many different ways.

And so I pulled I pulled a lot of Let me My mouse is off. Also, if you're a designer that doesn't use a mouse, you need to start using a mouse. It is my biggest pet peeve. You cannot use a

trackpad. It does not work.

trackpad. It does not work.

[applause] Like the efficiency, you have to use the mouse. Um, so I started going through and I started pulling things that I found in my, you know, that I had in my library. Colors,

anything that was green, I sort of pulled in. This is an old holiday party

pulled in. This is an old holiday party we had that I had my dog on. Um, this

was a I got this when I went to Korea one year. It was like a customs form. I

one year. It was like a customs form. I

was like, "This is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my entire life.

What do I do with it?" Um, took a photo of it. I started thinking about this is

of it. I started thinking about this is my dog's pet store. Um, I started thinking about other album artworks or other things that are in this world that were type only and sort of text only and and how they could hold weight and kind

of be um, you know, they could be like how how could they be iconic or kind of be descriptive. I liked these green

be descriptive. I liked these green pants that Martine Rose made. This was a water bottle design that I had made about Whitney Houston a couple years prior. So you can kind of see that I was

prior. So you can kind of see that I was just kind of pulling in any single thing that I felt could somehow be in the world of brat.

There's a lot of stuff here. Um

this is my favorite thing that somehow made the thing made the cut and I don't know how it made the but it's there somehow

um osmotically it is part of the brat artwork. Um, a lot of sort of system

artwork. Um, a lot of sort of system typography, a lot of fonts and and you know, a lot of just materiality things, just anything that I could feel it could be like in the Brat universe, whether it made sense for me or not, or whether it

was pertaining to my role as the designer of this thing or not. Like, it

was just anything I had that I could find. And then we started just kind of

find. And then we started just kind of going through and deciding, right, what should this look like? And what is the typography? And what is the color? And

typography? And what is the color? And

what is the capitalization? And what's

the spacing? And what's the kerning? And

what's the size? and what's the composition and how should it feel and what makes us feel when we see it the most what what like rings truest, you know, and and truthfully, my role as a

designer, you know, there's a lot of ideas that people have, which is that you have to really show or edit your design work to only be what you really want it to be

chosen at. So, you can show a a

chosen at. So, you can show a a perspective and say, "Great, here are your three options." But I've always been the other way. I've always been like, let's just look at every single thing that I that I've done um in, you

know, in this round of design, for example. And a big reason for that is

example. And a big reason for that is because then I can say through all of that stuff and a lot of it that I don't like, I've come to the conclusion that

this is what I do like from this round.

And so I think that, you know, I always sort of say that design is a relationship of trust. And then when you're working with other people or you're working with other clients, if

there is not a blind mutual trust there, it does not work. It is required. And

the only way to get that mutual trust is by forming a relationship and being able to to show show your work, show the references, un uh explain that you understand what is going on and what

your perspective is on this and kind of coming up with something that you know brings something to the table that feels really really right. And so obviously looked at a lot of green stuff. Um I

looked at a lot of sort of like this radio head packaging that I was obsessed with. Um there was this like I thought

with. Um there was this like I thought that that was a cool sort of styrofoam thing. This was Charlie's video um for

thing. This was Charlie's video um for Von Dutch that I was like that's a really fab thing. I've always been obsessed with airports digital stuff. Um

you know I just started kind of going through and pulling that stuff. And then

next round we have photo photography now. Um so now we have an album shoot

now. Um so now we have an album shoot and we know kind of what the world is starting to look like around it. We know

what the vibe is going to be from a tone standpoint, from a visual standpoint, um the styling standpoint, and we started kind of also just

keeping, you know, honing in on what we still thought was our favorites from the from the round before. And there's a lot that is bad that we were still doing.

And I think that that's also a thing that I think we get caught up on, which is that if it's not good, it needs to go away and I can't and I can't have it around and and let's get away from the thing and every round has to be better

and better and better and better and better than the last round. And I don't think that's the case. And I think that that is a um I think it's a misconception that design one to design two, design three, you know, through all

these rounds of design that you are supposed to be getting better and better and better and closer and closer and closer to the thing. Sometimes you are just exploring more and learning more and trying to define what you don't want

it to be so that you can understand what the boundaries are in all this stuff.

Um so through all this imaging Charlie they were like we love it let's keep going you know what what do we we need to do the artwork though and I was like okay let's do it. So

we went in to color and typography and trying to understand weight and trying to understand you know rationale for composition. Why something might be uh

composition. Why something might be uh the difference between you know the darker ones and the lighter ones. What

is the tone we wanted to feel? How you

know special? How like you know the neverending task of choosing a font. I'll also say that since Brat and this is something

that I tell all the designers who come work at special offer, you don't have to find the right font. You can stick with the five that you like and know how to control. And I think that there's this

control. And I think that there's this idea that like if I just find the right font, it's going to be right. And that's

what's going to make the whole thing.

And that is not true. You have to just you need to find a gel. You need to be able to figure out like what you're working with and the ones you like the most and the ones that you feel like you can control the most and have the most,

you know, work on. Eventually through

all of this, you know, um Charlie, this is even an abbreviated version of what this was, by the way. And also, let me say that this is the first real time I've used auto layout because I hit auto layout sometimes and I'm like, "No, no,

no, no, no, no. I don't know what to do." And then I'm like like trying, you

do." And then I'm like like trying, you know, it's but I will say that I know that everybody special offer loves auto layout. Me it's not my whatever. We

layout. Me it's not my whatever. We

don't need to get to that. You can use sigma the way that you want to use sigma is what I'm saying. [laughter]

Um through all of this we got a choice.

Charlie chose this pretty clear, pretty easy. Um but then the thought was you

easy. Um but then the thought was you know how do we get this into print and how do we print this onto vinyl and stuff? And I was just sort of like,

stuff? And I was just sort of like, well, I made this in Figma. How am

I going to print this in the way and I don't just want to recreate it? Like,

what can I do?

And so from a small screenshot of this, I exported it at 12,000 pixels wide [laughter]

because I thought that sounds right. Vinyls are 12 in.

I'll just choose. Let's see. Down uh

screenshots.

I'm like, "Okay, that's getting closer."

Then I exported it. This is where I did the 12,000 export. It was probably named screenshot

export. It was probably named screenshot 2024 also.

Um, desktop save. Let's see if I did this

desktop save. Let's see if I did this right. I practiced it a couple times.

right. I practiced it a couple times.

We'll see.

There we go.

[applause] Um, we can turn the screen share off and I'll go back to my lowly slides, please.

So, Brat then obviously we had no idea what was going to happen to it and what it was going to do. You know, I was I was just really happy to have gotten Charlie to a place that she was really

happy with and that she felt like really represented her album in a in the right way.

Um, obviously after Brat kind of came out and the music kind of took over and kind of really infiltrated culture in a way and she was able to uh really show

people um a really really really fun irreverent side of herself and and and tone in music um did I realize that through the reuse of Brat and through

the reuse of the artwork had Brat actually become an interface itself.

And so a lot of people started reusing it. We had in New York we had the MTA.

it. We had in New York we had the MTA.

It's the G train, but it's not the G train. It's the M train today. It's

train. It's the M train today. It's

still different. Whatever. I'm like, I want a subway system that works, please.

There's like a I remember and I couldn't really tell what was what it was. I

couldn't really tell like is it just my algorithm that's sort of doing this? Is

it is it just my parents that are sending me things being like, hey, look, Ritz crackers made Brat Ritz or whatever. And I was like, okay, I got

whatever. And I was like, okay, I got it. Um,

it. Um, NATO did one that said peace on it. I'm

like, sis, there is a war.

Like, there is a an actual war. But

thank you for the screenshot.

Um, but through all of this, I just sort of realized that it was the fans and it was the reception of this artwork that really kind of was the last part in the design process and that everything we

had done up until that point was actually just hoping that it was the right fit for the thing.

Um, and so I sort of, you know, I think that the audience's response to design is really the step, the last step in the process because how someone reacts to something, how it makes them feel, how it, how they, how they, you know, how

how they can bring it into their life, how they might not want it in their life, all of those things is the true sort of um, you know, part of the design process itself. It is not after, it is

process itself. It is not after, it is not post.

I think that the audience is the medium.

I think that what we are trying to do is get people to react to something really viscerally um that we love. Um we get someone to, you know, like I was with the real world sitting in front of the

TV just trying to be a part of something and trying to kind of uh understand what was going on with in in in culture around me. Um even from my

my bedroom in Long Beach, Mississippi, I needed to find other people for which to work with and to be able to understand and collaborate with.

Um, and so I kind of always say that there is no finished state. Every bit of design will always live forever if you want it to. And even if you think

something is done, you've shipped it, it's out, you've gone to print, it's done the thing, even two years, three years, four years later and you haven't thought about the thing, it is still a

work in progress. You can still go back to it and it can change again. There is

no ending.

And let me say that I learned mostly through this process or a big part of through this process is that I could have been iterating forever. I could

have just done the type the font choosing the the color choosing the you know scaling. I could have done that

know scaling. I could have done that into eternity and the only thing that really kind of got me out of that tunnel vision was somebody like Charlie and I

who said we're done. This is it. My job

as a designer is to keep on going and to keep on pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing and just trying to kind of put everything I possibly can out so

that I can get it all out.

And I'm so thankful for collaborators to be able to do that. And I think that that's something that we all have to uh really find. And I think that that is

really find. And I think that that is the true testament to um to community and life and and things like that. Um thank you

guys so much. Thanks for having me. Woo!

[applause] We love you.