Digital Wellbeing - Building Critical Digital Spaces

Hello everyone and welcome to this session. Um before we start uh with the

session. Um before we start uh with the actual content of this meeting, I would like to remind you of Europeana's inclusive engagement guidelines because

we really value inclusive conversations uh at Europeana.

Uh these guidelines include listening with full attention and care, staying opening to learning and being aware of your own biases, being curious about

what you don't yet understand, respect all perspective and lived experiences.

Um creating safe spaces where everyone can share without fear, taking responsibility for mistakes and apologizing and making amends, and supporting everyone's right to speak up

if there is a boundary crossed.

And well again hello everyone and welcome. I'm Christine Vading, business

welcome. I'm Christine Vading, business development coordinator for education at Europeana and I'm really thrilled to be here today in this session about building critical digital spaces as part

of the old digital weeks campaign.

Um, the old digital weeks campaign is a Europeanwide initiative that brings together organizations, educators, learners, and innovators to explore how digital technologies can support

people's well-being, skills, and inclusion. This year, the campaign's

inclusion. This year, the campaign's focus is digital well-being for a competitive Europe, and it explores a wide range of digital skills from media literacy and critical thinking to

inclusive participation, ethical AI, and creative innovation.

And so, why do critical digital spaces matter and how does this relate to uh well-being? Research from the JRC, the

well-being? Research from the JRC, the European Commission's joint research center, shows that fostering critical engagement with digital technologies help people avoid harmful patterns like

addictive use or spreading misinformation and supports positive outcomes such as greater confidence, autonomy, and healthier digital habits. Engaging with

digital technologies critically can involve, for example, evaluating content and sources to spot biases, misinformation, or inaccuracies.

Um, it could include reflecting on your own digital habits and their impact on your well-being, participating online responsibly, respecting other people's

rights and privacy, understanding how platforms and algorithms influence what we see and do, and being aware of the

sustainability implications of using uh certain digital tools.

And um these topics are very important for us at Europeana as an institution that supports the cultural heritage sector and its digital transformation.

Through the Europeana platform, we give access to millions of digitized items for museums, libraries, archives and audiovisisual collections across Europe which serve as primary sources for

learning, exploration and research.

Education is a key part of our work and through Europeana education or resources or partnerships and initiatives we help educators and learners use digital

cultural heritage in creative ways while strengthening critical thinking and digital literacy skills that are essential for engaging with the digital world in a responsible and meaningful

way. And this is very much in the spirit

way. And this is very much in the spirit of today's session, exploring how digital tools can support critical engagement, creativity, and digital well-being. And to help us unpack this,

well-being. And to help us unpack this, I'm delighted to welcome our two guests.

Um, we have first Daniel Jamas, creator of Build with Bits, which is an international initiative co-organized and funded by Europeana.

Um, where participants collaborate to design virtual environments. And we're

also joined by Anna Johansson, founder of Magnificent Age, a platform to curate your own digital museum and also a participant in last year's uh Build with

Bits uh program. Daniel, I would like to start this conversation with you. Uh

first of all, welcome Daniel and thank you for being here.

Thank you. And um I just want to start this conver conversation by asking you uh if you could uh tell us how build

with bids started and um yeah how this initiative um became what it is today. If you could just um introduce us to the initiative for those

who are not yet familiar.

Perfect. Thank you Christine. Yeah.

Build with bits is an initiative that we started five years ago during 2021.

So we have to come back to the context of that year because we were so immersed with the with pandemics and this affected a lot in the way that we

imagine that technology could help us.

So metaverse was a thing and it was like the word of the year I guess and we started to talk with the Robana because I work for an NGO that that promotes

these kind of initiatives and we started the conversation thinking about how we we could uh address the interest of so many people in the Europeana community

in relation with virtual portal and and the creation of virtual spaces. is and

also how we can create something that also allow it to use the 3D models and the 3D materials that are hosted in the Europeana repository. So with those

Europeana repository. So with those initial clues, uh we started to think about how to create something collaborative, not just uh fostering the

the creation of virtual spaces and and as such like only with the mindset focus on technology, but also how that can

turn into some kind of educational or creative collaborative experience with all of these people. So that was like

the the first step in the process.

Thank you, Daniel. And um yeah, it has been now five editions. We're during our five edition of Build with Bits. And

what would you say that makes Build with Bits uh unique compared to other programs that focus on uh digital learning or digital skills?

Well, I think that this uh goal of creating something collaborative is the cornerstone of the program, but also something very very characteristic

because uh we are not used to creating passive formats in in in terms of uh delivering training or delivering

some pieces of information from one let's say teacher or expert to to the attending audience. We are more prone to

attending audience. We are more prone to creating this kind of hybrid spaces where people can learn but

also can teach can exchange different knowledge can also have the the option to create by themselves to decide to take decisions on on the next steps. So

this is something at first difficult to articulate because it's not so obvious how we can gather all these people together and not create a chaos and

sometimes it happens but uh we decided to create a program a structure in the way that uh we provide some information we provide some framework to to start

thinking and and creating but then there is also a space for that collaboration and the creation of of new initiatives within in the the program. So I think

this is something important for us and important for the the participants and it's also something that has changed throughout all the editions because we

started let's say with a more rigid structure more focus on this training with this space for collaboration but more focus on classical training and as

the additions passed uh we learn how to modify some some key pieces of the structure to allow more flexibility and allow more space, more room for the

collaborators to propose their own initiatives. And that's something that

initiatives. And that's something that actually worked and and we have take advantage of this uh we have taken advantage of this uh functionality of of

characteristic of the program to make it like the most special narrative that we use when when launching a new edition.

Yeah. And speaking about the structure of the of the program, uh, Build with Bits follows a very specific methodology that I personally find quite innovative.

Could you tell us a little bit more about the living lab methodology and and and how this works and why is this effective for collaborating

in a digital environment?

Perfect. Yeah. Living love. Erh when we are talking about living love uh this is a methodology or a system to create participatory

frameworks or spaces that are very used in the area of social impact or or in also neighbor initiatives. It's

something very usual at least here in in Spain. I'm in Spain and

Spain. I'm in Spain and we we try to take the the essence of this methodology and implement it into build with bees because it's something

that we have tested that works that actually works and the the way a living life is structured is that essentially it has like two parts. The first of them

like two stages better said the first of them is more focused on looking for projects looking for initiatives ideas that are uh that are proposed by

different leaders let's call it like that like that and then we select some of those projects that most fit with the the goals that we have for the for this

edition or for this goal or for this living lab. And then once we have the

living lab. And then once we have the leaders uh selected then we have another different call for collaborators and then collaborators are people that have

different kind of knowledge or expertise resources network whatever and they provide that uh that asset into the into

one of the projects. So then we do the selection of collaborators and eventually the match between the the leaders and the the collaborators creating different teams everything with

a a leader and a project that they want to to carry over and then different carry out sorry and then different collaborators that want to help in different ways. Sometimes they are

different ways. Sometimes they are technical uh they want to provide technical help. They want to provide a

technical help. They want to provide a more artistic view uh educational guidelines. It depends on the kind of

guidelines. It depends on the kind of collaborator. But it's useful because

collaborator. But it's useful because this implies that there are international people within every team and also interdisiplinarity to to make the best out of the project.

H this is a methodology that we have used during the last three editions especially the last two and I think that

it's h it's good because we gather very different interest within a single team and and then we can help uh reaching

achieving those milestone that the leader proposed during the first goal.

Indeed. Then one of the things that I really like about this um yeah methodology is not only that uh people have very interdisciplinary profiles but

that they also it also spans among generations. So you will truly have uh

generations. So you will truly have uh for example teachers that come with their young students uh that are collaborating with uh people that are in

very different stages of their lives and their careers which I find super enriching and also a great opportunity for yeah crosscontamination of ideas

etc. Um, and in terms of like the social impact um do you find that working on projects that have this social approach changes

the way participants approach technology or online collaboration?

Yeah, here I will come back to the to the first comment because the the two of them are are connected in terms of inter this interdisciplinarity also in terms

of generation and and and different not only generation but also different background different geographies this is something that it's a it's

important to foster because sometimes we think that when we are talking about 3D spaces or virtual environments doesn't matter the world as you can see here in the actually in the in the

picture in the in the gifts that we have included it may seem like very unreachable for some people like I don't know about video games or I don't know

about digital creation or virtual reality all of these words are like very far from the the the the common place for for a lot of people but when we

create this spaces of exchange with uh both students, teachers, artists, techies. Uh it's very interesting and

techies. Uh it's very interesting and very rewarding how they h make the most out of them and and and every profile

gives the help that it's on their hand.

H so everything can happen and and the the project finally arrives to a to an interesting point to to be created or the space to be built. And I mean because students for example and

sometimes we have worked with the students 14 years old or so they have a lot of knowledge maybe they are not aware of the knowledge that they have because

they have played a lot of video games like Minecraft Roblox and they don't know that that knowledge can be applied in this program and then they have a lot of easiness when using

the the tools and the platforms that that we h suggest to them because erh uh that's a a knowledge that the teachers for example don't have. So maybe for the

teachers it's like easy to create the structure or the the view the the educational guidelines as I said before but not the creation itself the process of creation is like a different world

for them but then when work together the teachers along with the students there's a a beautiful way of collaboration and sometimes maybe the the students don't

know how to do something or or to have an specific I don't know opinion about how to create a proper user experience within the virtual environment. And then

that's the moment when the the experts, the professionals come and they have a lot of of things to say as well. And

then you know you see how the space is evolving during the program because they receive this feedback and they different opinions and then the maybe a very basic

space then get into a something more not sophisticated but more complex or more complete. H and it's beautiful to to see

complete. H and it's beautiful to to see this pro this process from the beginning until until the very end. And I connect this with the social impact because

sometimes it's not about just celebrating the program and the people joins and create the space but how this space also connect with their environments their

local environments because some of the participants well when we ask for the leaders to to write a proposal at the beginning in in this first call of the

living lab they we ask about the the social impact of the of the proposal and how that proposal can connect with something that

is happening in their surroundings and and sometimes it's very interesting how they create the the the connection because well we are creating

something 3D we can think of I don't know doing something like fictional something cartoonist erh or even just

recreating a a 3D asset of of placing the 3D asset in the middle of the environment and that's it. But when you start thinking and that's one of the goals of the program when you start

thinking about all the possibilities and how this can also h be longterm h they they find the way to to make this connection with the the surroundings.

For example, in this gift that we are showing, you can see like a boat where sealing the the the the

Mediterranean Sea connecting different cultures. And this was a project that

cultures. And this was a project that connected two different cities in in Italy and Spain. You can see a horse, this avatar

riding a horse. And that happened in a specific town also here in Spain connected with a specific problematic.

I'm not going to explain everything but a problematic and and an story related with that village. We also saw the digitalization of a church and then like

this explosion of the different walls of the church virtually I mean and then the students draw painted this graffiti in every wall and then they mount

everything together again and then it was a place virtually visitable well every every space has a a story that's what bottom line of what I

explaining every every space has a narrative that can connect with something local and in some of the cases also the leaders of the project once we have finalized the addition of build

with bits they presented the project in the local media to the city hall because there were proposals very connected with some of the the problematics that they were facing on some challenges relation

with tourism heritage um I don't know environmental effects of the of

the the region. So it's very connected with with that actual feeling of of the city in sets.

Yeah. And I would say as well that um this connection not only about the projects having uh social or or touching upon a social problematic. I think the

fact also that you have people from different ages and different stages of their career getting together to create something together this is actually also

I think creating social impact and that you're creating a community for so to speak that otherwise would not have been um yeah otherwise these people would

have never gotten in contact together and and and worked together and so um what I would like to connect this with is actually uh something very

important which is how the program is actually um yeah well not structured because we've talked about the methodology but I want to talk about the

different um yeah learning paths that you have developed in build with bits initially build with bits as you mentioned um provided technical capacity

building to help participant create this environments but this has since then evolved through the learning pills And I would like to tell us a little bit about these learning pills. Uh what they

consist on and and and yeah what what do these pills cover and and why you decided to um to evolve the program in this way.

Sure. Yeah. We have like different levels of uh information or knowledge exchange. Let's call it like that. Not

exchange. Let's call it like that. Not

training or classical training. H

depending on if that's knowledge related with the hard part or the soft part of the technology uh because at first as I

said we were placing technology in the middle of the equation but then we learned that it's more important not just the tool that we were using the specific platform but the way that these

different people the different participants were understanding the technology and how they can deliver a proper user experience for the people that

actually have to visit the spaces afterwards. So uh okay we provide some

afterwards. So uh okay we provide some technical help in way of trouble sorting or recording some tutorials videos that they can h they can watch during the

program and actually from the beginning of the program they have these videos accessible to to watch but uh we didn't want to put these videos or these

tutorials like the the the main erh the main content of the program because at erh uh otherwise we will be placing technology in that in that place

that we don't want to and and also they have a lot of information in internet they can look for tutorials in YouTube there is another there's different ways

to to reach that knowledge so we created some specific learning pills we call it like this h in relation of how technology crosses other kind of

disciplines or areas and uh we have set like different mileston during the program that are like optional workshops that they usually join both the the

participants and the leaders.

So we have in inside this learning peel like a theoretical content that some expert shares with the with the rest of the people the the attendees but also

someh discussion space uh where we can exchange more ideas in relation with the with the bill. So it's uh something that is important to us because this way the

the technical approach h can get something different than if just we leave it leave the people to use the

the tools on their own and and there is a a way of of h of taking this into account. So this h learning pills are

account. So this h learning pills are related and to be more specific we have four of them. One of them is related with digital literacy and we call it

like citizen participation in the digital world. Then the the second is

digital world. Then the the second is related with ethics applied to technology. Then there's other in

technology. Then there's other in relation with critical thinking. And

then finally with sustainability and also longterm viability of the projects.

Uh so these four pills cover a lot of topics that are also interconnected among them but uh allows the people to have a new approach of how uh how to

design these virtual spaces and all of them also are very connected with something that it's not a learning pill as such but something that we sometimes explain and also in the first programs

we included it in the kickoff and well actually in all the programs we mentioned this in the kickoff um session and is the the user experience that is

how any person that are is going to use the one of these spaces, how they feel, how they interact, how they navigate, if they have all the instructions, the all

the information, they know what to do because we are very used to creating inerson experiences when people know how to act. But sometimes in the virtual

to act. But sometimes in the virtual world, maybe in the video course, we are now used to that. But in this kind of 3D spaces, it's not so obvious. If you have to use the mic, if you have to talk to

other people, you have to paint the walls, I don't know, or put different files together, files inside. I mean, h it's not obvious for the people. So we

have to instruct them into how to use the spaces creating a proper experience so they have the feeling that it it add

a new value to the to the 2D dimension.

No, it's something that that we were very very eager always to to teach and to to transmit into the during these

pills.

Yes. And um so from my perspective this digital PLC yes on one side we really want people to take what they learn during these pills into their projects.

Uh but most of all or most importantly we want people to be able to take what they learn in these pills and reflect in

their own everyday lives. And so um what I wanted to ask you is have you seen participants apply what they what they have learned in innovative and

unexpected ways in their project and um in your opinion I mean I have shared a little bit uh about what the commission uh relates to well-being in digital

spaces but how do you think the pills that you or this program that you created can support digital wellbeing.

Yes. Uh in relation with the first question as we are also there during the program facilitation facilitating the

methodology but also making this uh making session with the with the with the participants. We are

always trying to make them incorporate some of these h topics into the spaces.

We know that it's impossible to incorporate all of them and sometimes they maybe get like overloaded of information because it's like okay I have to be inclusive but also create

something accessible but also it has to be sustainable and ethical and there are like a lot of items there to check and sometimes it's

impossible to consider all of them but it's more about the mindset when they are creating something for example they they in the case of teaching with the student. Let's put this example. It's

student. Let's put this example. It's

not just the teacher commanding what they have to do and the students behaving like minions and and creating the space with no critical thinking.

Thanks to this uh different approach they work together and maybe they find different new ideas that the students can also provide and sometimes the students took the actual lead of the

project and they created something totally and radically different that the teacher was proposing at the very beginning. So it's very very beautiful

beginning. So it's very very beautiful when this happens because you know that the teacher has created some space for the student has to be critical and to be ethical and and not only for the

students but in this case I have explained this example but with other kind of collaborators they have also the room for example to create to to create

a good erh backup of everything that has been created and this is very connected also with this sustainability mindset because sometimes We create maybe a virtual space and then

everything is there. The the program finalizes and and then everything like gets lost somehow because nobody is paying attention again to the space. But we try

also to uh that they create like a backup and not just like saving everything and putting it in a folder but creating the narrative extract the

stories uh beyond the the the 3D space and reuse those stories maybe to submit a proposal in other call or in other on

other topic. It's not just about for me

other topic. It's not just about for me my my my purpose here is not just limit ourselves to the 3D world or the 3D virtual tools but also other kind of

tools in relation with uh as you said digital well-being but any kind of digital tool that we are used to to use in our daily lives. uh we should think

about these topics about ethics, critical thinking every time that we use them because sometimes we are not very concerned or very aware of what are the implication

of the use of a specific specific tools. So I think that yeah

specific tools. So I think that yeah that's at least our propose and I hope that the learning piece has have helped to to reach it.

So would you say that uh the learning pills help people reflect on on how they're using technologies and how they can connect this to their own well-being for example or their own digital

literacy and how how to deal with today's um world essentially digital world.

Yeah. And actually it's not just that we make them reflect or we don't paste those ideas on them because they have the ideas already. they have made the referation by themselves when they have

seen like the news or when they have used some specific tool and they feel uncomfortable but they don't know why.

And what we do is like put all those ideas together and and it's funny because when we ask for comments or reflection it's always it's like like things that they have already

experimented in their in the classroom or in the lives and they bring everything together. They see that they

everything together. They see that they are not alone because the same problems are shared by by different people and then we like try to create an

explanation for those feelings and and it's good because they they get agency after these sessions to to create and and to to empower themselves to to lead

uh maybe some changes in their lives in relation with technology.

Yeah. Yeah, and I I have attended some of these uh sessions myself and I've seen how deeply participants interact with the questions posed at the end. Um

I would like to share that these sessions how they work is that basically first there will be an expert presentation on a certain topic for example critical thinking or digital citizenship and then uh the group will

come together and basically reflect on the subject through a yeah very well facilitated session. Um my question to

facilitated session. Um my question to you here Daniel is would you what would you say is the most insightful or surprising thing people have shared during these interactive sessions? Is

there has there been any moment where you're like oh wow I did not expect this piece of insight or this reflection or something that yeah draw drew your

attention to to a certain thing?

Mhm. For me maybe it's that there's no a single solution for these problems. We call it we call them complex problems or

wicked problems. It's like a a common term for that because when you press a button in one place then there's something popping out in the other place and it's not like a there's no a single

solution otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this. H I mean because also

discussing this. H I mean because also during the different editions uh we were using different programs not only for the 3D worlds but also for for internal

communication with the participants uh the repository that we we created uh we try different tools and all the tools

have some uh benefits and drawbacks and it's not uh there's not a a a let's say a forever solution uh uh when we are facing these problems and in

relation with your question when we are talking with the participants they share what's which are what are this this uh feelings that they have in relation with

these different uh tools and maybe for me the thing that c got my attention was that some of the participants

erh maybe feel very comfortable with solutions that are not so well designed but uh and sometimes they have to take decision because when you are using a

tool and I mean the teachers are also using tools for their classrooms and and whatever you have to choose between different parameters and sometimes you

have to sacrifice accessibility for usability or inclusivess for I don't know features. So there is like

a like a tension here and it's difficult to to evaluate which of the ocean is the best and for me it's very also uh it's it's very

interesting or it caught my attention when when people are sharing those difficults that they that they have and some of them want to avoid the mainstream tools and they want to use

like alternatives open source or I don't know more ethical uh solutions that are not in the in the big focus of

the of the huge technological companies but they experiment some travel with that in terms of isolation. Maybe when

we are talking about social media maybe you are not with your friends or family in that other platform and they experiment other uh feelings different that when you you were in the in the

mainstream tool. So it's like sharing

mainstream tool. So it's like sharing all of this it's very emotional as well because you feel the frustration of not having the possibility to get into a

proper solution for everybody and you have to sacrifice something uh for the tool and I like to connect that also with this critical thinking and ethical

thinking learning pill because we are all in the same page with this but we are trying to to find the the new solutions and maybe thanks to this kind of communities that are aware of this

happening because most of the people are not aware that when they are using some of the big technological platforms they are I don't know exposing their data or

they are what are the interest behind that company so the the case here of having the community with this interest in common I think it's important to

maybe create something new or to give a new use for this platform and to or just maybe sharing this frustration I think it's important to create a more as I

said before empowered community when using technologies.

Absolutely. Uh thank you so much Danielle and I think this is a great segue also to introduce our second speaker Anna Johansson uh when we're

speaking about well finding ways of countering um the ways in which mainstream digital platforms or digital tools address their relationship with

their audiences and their and their Yeah, they're users basically. Um Anna,

um first of all, I I would like to ask you if you would like to introduce yourself, who you are, and uh once you've done that, tell us a little bit

about your experience on Build with Bits since you were a participant in last year's edition.

Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you, Christine. Uh yeah

so um hm it's a it's an interesting story because now I used to work as a lawyer for more than 20 years so my background

is really you know from uh yeah working as a lawyer and not really building platforms or um participating in this

kind of like cultural activities. Uh but

I wanted to pivot and I was really like interested into doing something completely different. Um and uh what I

completely different. Um and uh what I decided to do like maybe about two years ago was that I was I was really tired by

uh social media platforms and I will come back to that. Um and I decided that okay I think I would need to build something new myself. uh and uh yeah you

know it's always a journey but it really started with an idea and that it it evolved into a project into a blog and now a platform so uh I am the CEO and

the founder of Magnificent H and it is a platform where our members of community can basically uh create you know build their own

museums. However, it's not real museums, it's digital spaces. So, we call the form of the format micro museum experiences.

Okay. Yes. So, that was the introduction and I guess yeah, if I continue um to your to to to your question. So, indeed

I was participating participating in um build with baits uh last year and maybe also like to give you some more context.

Um as I said and I was like kind of red discovering I was on a on a journey to discover okay what would be the platforms that I would like to that I

would like to build uh so I wanted to participate in different initiatives and I think what's important to say is that um not only that I was a lawyer and and coming from a very different background

I didn't know about Europe so I discovered Europeina through this journey of my like researching Um and I joined Europeina and it was through the Europe and one of the

newsletters that you shared that I learned about built with bits initiative and this is how signed up. So when I joined the program, I was new as a

member to Europe, but I was also new as a participant uh in this in this program. And um you know, not knowing

program. And um you know, not knowing much about that, I think it was like two most important you know, takeaways that really stood

out for me. Um and one of them was uh maybe four and like most importantly um it was like a confirmation

um that also other participants from the community will also in pursuit for something that was more meaningful. So

in terms like more meaningful digital experiences.

Uh so it was not not only me being tired of like mainstream social media uh you know being tired of this constant feeds

and scrolls. Um and also you know one

and scrolls. Um and also you know one year ago it it this is when the problem with AI generated content started. Um

um so yeah it was interesting that know people were also kind of sharing the same concerns.

Uh and also the fact that you know how we use social media has changed so much know people are much more cautious and aware of you know what they post but also like if you read some post you know

how do you relate to that and you know is it really a human person or is it a AI behind that post. Um and then the

second thing and that eventually really was like um uh like a defining moment in in my journey of building magnificent age. Um that was really like

age. Um that was really like understanding you know seeing the community engagement uh that was like reuniting us in the in the process of

this know collaborative um approach and you know this engagement that was triggered um you know by the topics around culture and history uh so you

know we were part of this of this group and there were like you know different representatives coming from you know school and academia Yeah. Um there were some techies, you

Yeah. Um there were some techies, you know, and maybe I was like one of the few lawyers, if not maybe the only one.

Uh and it was really like the excitement around the project that that was so interesting to see uh that we wanted to

collaborate uh together. Uh yeah, so that was amazing to see. Yep.

And thank you, Anna. And uh yeah, Magnisant H. Um I know that you I I've

Magnisant H. Um I know that you I I've I've gone through the website, you focus on these micro museums and from my perspective and also based on some of

the blog posts that are shared on on the platform. Um a lot of the focus is going

platform. Um a lot of the focus is going into immersive storytelling. Um could

you tell us a little bit about that and what inspired you to to to shift into this focus rather than focusing on a different approach uh perhaps one that

is more mainstream so to speak that is more yeah curated in a way that uh attracts more users for example.

Yeah. Uh so I think I touched upon that a little bit. Uh I like I think you know the original idea was really driven by the fact that I was missing a platform

that I wanted to use myself.

Um so like not only being very tired of like all the content overloaded on the mainstream social media but also the fact that uh so it's kind of like an

addiction. You want to continue to use

addiction. You want to continue to use this platforms. It's kind of like in a love and hate relationship.

Uh and and I like knew you know it it the social media are broken and we need to fix it somehow. Uh and the idea was that you know like all the things that I

really liked about the social pro the social media platforms I wanted to keep it somehow. So for instance now what I

it somehow. So for instance now what I don't like with Instagram is kind of like that it has evolved evolved into this like content overload a lot of AI

generated content and somehow it's like a lot of self-promotion. I didn't like like all the selfies really. And then

you have Pinterest and Pinterest is just this beautiful platform with all this visual visual content that is like amazing to look at but I miss the

context and I wanted to keep that and I was thinking you know it's kind of like I want to keep this visual discovery experience but I also want to have the

contextual experience and this is how I came to realization. Yeah, it's

basically like an museum experience I'm looking for, right? But I also wanted to have the community engagement and this is kind of like okay, let's merge this

two. So a community platform where you

two. So a community platform where you can build create experience um like curatorial works. Okay, somehow

we need to figure out how to merge the two and this is how manifest age idea was born and the concept of micro museum experiences. Yeah.

experiences. Yeah.

Thank you, Anna. And um so you are now collaborating closely with orana through the APIs. And so I would like to ask you

the APIs. And so I would like to ask you more about what has drawn you to collaborate with us and why engaging with cultural heritage is important to you and to this platform.

You've you've talked a little bit about this, but um when we were preparing for for this meeting, you you have mentioned very important points about why this type of content is different to other

content that you could have engaged with.

Yeah. And I think it's also so interesting to see like the developments, you know, because you start to build something and you had an idea and then like as you build, you realize that it's like turning into

another direction. And it was not

another direction. And it was not because like I was learning from users or because like we didn't know what to do. It was because of AI. It it kind of

do. It was because of AI. It it kind of like it pivoted. And when we started to build, we didn't know that there would be such an excitement around historical

images, but not because they are like historical and very cool to look at, but because of the provenence and the data and the attribution and the licensing

rights. uh which kind of like is uh you

rights. uh which kind of like is uh you know in this digital world that AI is kind of taking over you miss all of that. Uh so suddenly like working with

that. Uh so suddenly like working with European collections became like that is like a completely different layer and you know originally I wanted to implement European

collections into our platform because I wanted to create a platform where you would have like this participatory um like the use of um museum libraries

for creative purposes but then it has also evolved into like now because of AI there's such a demand and to like the interacting with this authentic

genuinely authentic images coming from historical archives and the fact that it's a celebration of human creativity.

So human creativity from the past but also human create creativity because of the humans now that are engaging with this collections.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think um speaking about well-being and in terms of reducing harm um

uh just one second no and reducing harm um your work suggests a more positive approach and in which engagement of people with these images and with these

stories uh plays a huge part. Um, so

would you say that a more that that your platform seeks a more intentional experience and and and would you say that a platform such as as yours, does

it support well-being online? How does

it support well-being online?

Um, yeah, definitely. And it's also something that I learned through this process of also like engaging with users. Uh so when I was building the

users. Uh so when I was building the platform it was very important to me that we would build it as a okay I wanted to build a community platform

uh a social media but it's not social media it now it has this negative um wording I I don't like to use it I wanted to have a platform that would be nonaddictive that people would come back

to because it was their intention not because we were dragging them into the platform with notices reminders, how many likes you got or so on, but because

like you wanted to share something or because you want to experience something that someone else uh has shared. And how

do you do that? And and um uh and I discovered that again it's really it's the process I guess of like no

exploration and the curation. So um we magnificent age is a platform where you can curate micro museum experiences and that has a very like a dual meaning. So

one meaning is that you as user as a creator you can curate digital experiences but also on the other side you as a visitor to come to experience

the the digital micro museums you curate as well. And for me the the digital like

as well. And for me the the digital like okay the wellness the the well-being coming from the use like nursing of the

digital platform that comes really from the curation process and and it was it's not like make I'm making this up because

I saw a very interesting post somewhere on LinkedIn someone was talking about curtology as a way for people to I mean it's like

a it triggers like the well-being because it triggers a lot of like positive um emotions and reactions and I can tell you like what I have learned

when speaking to users they come to experience the platform they want to create something they want to test and it's really through the process of them like browsing the images coming from

Europeina coming from other museums this is how they explore like the amazing vast collections And when they do that, it triggers memories. Maybe it's something they have

memories. Maybe it's something they have experienced as kids, something that they remember from the family life, something that they that they remember when they were playing with other, you know, kids

at school or something. So, it's really this interaction like with the collections made available by the museums, but also how that resonate with

you. Um and you bring these stories this

you. Um and you bring these stories this untold stories to life um by the curatorial process. Um so and

I think you know this is this is really magic happens. So we have creators um

magic happens. So we have creators um that discovered that you know they have so many beautiful amazing stories to be told but these stories could not be told

before because they were lacking images.

you know they didn't know that these collections were available and now they can bring the stories to life because European is making this you know um images available and then on the other

side you know when you look from the perspectives of the museums uh there are like amazing uh libraries like assets and archives that were not

used before and when you bring stories of creators you know it could be like personal stories collective stories uh um that really enrich these collections

and this is also how museums get even more exposure because suddenly their collections have different meanings attract new audiences it's the stories

make them more engaging um it really goes back to this no participatory engagement and I think that's important like making our cultural heritage

reuse because this is how we can relate and and engage with that but still in the form that is relevant to new generations.

Absolutely. And I agree and um I think there is a lot of true in in saying that giving um creative agency to people with

things that they can relate to their own memories, their own um identities, their or or other identities. That definitely

touches upon upon being more more well-rounded individuals and and having the capacity of of or at least the opportunity to to have this creative

agency and share uh the relationships each person has to a specific object or an image. Um

an image. Um thank you very much Anna for for for these answers and and and to you Daniel as well. Looking at the time, I would

as well. Looking at the time, I would like to um before I ask my my last question, if we have the time, I would like to open the stage to um to our

participants to see if they have any questions that they would like to ask um to our participants and and and yeah,

open the stage for that for a little Q&A. Um, you can either uh just speak up

Q&A. Um, you can either uh just speak up and ask your question or you can also I can we can also give a little bit of time for you to write that question up

in the chat and I can share the question um with the participants with our speakers.

there is no questions from the audience.

That is okay. I have one last question to close up this session and the question is to both of you and uh it's namely what advice would you give to

educators, creators or young people who want to engage with digital tools in a more mindful, creative and meaningful

way? What is your advice to them in this

way? What is your advice to them in this regard?

Salo.

Well, I think that that they don't have to be afraid of breaking things because sometimes it may seem scary to

to use sophisticated tools like with a lot of features and and like h every expertise is built upon different layers

of knowledge and the first layer is to go inside the tool lose this erh

like like like this feeling of you know like that threat that you may feel by the by the tool and go inside and then you will see maybe you are only

using one feature and you are creating something very basic but then you will learn how to use it and master it like step by step but don't try to use everything all of a sudden because then

it's impossible for for the teachers and for everyone. So uh when you see some

for everyone. So uh when you see some someone that knows a lot about some kind of technology is because they started at some point and I think that this kind of programs like bit with bits but not only

this are very useful for these people to do like this like like soft landing into one of these tools. And I think that the

second advice that I would say is that try to create your own methodology for the tool because sometimes we think that some platforms are uh designed and they

are actually designed to be used in a in a certain way but maybe that purpose is not aligned with your interests or with

your goals personal goals. Erh so I always invite people to hack the tools uh in the way that you can create whatever you need and and sometimes maybe you are not concerned about uh

what you can create with some specific tools but for example with this 3D platform that we are using maybe the creators even the creators of the platform they thought about creating

some social spaces I don't know for something like like for leisure and and social meetings and that's it and Then suddenly through build with bits some

people come with idea of creating recreations of virtual heritage of physical heritage in the virtual world or or creating totally brand new experiences that maybe even the creators

were not aware that was a possibility for for these spaces. And this with any kind of tool you have to use it in a creative way and and uh and then you

will see all the potential. But always

having if you have the control of the of the process and of the methodology and not letting the the technology using you. So methodology is a means not an

you. So methodology is a means not an end by itself. So I think that's the bottom line for me.

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess like from my part, you know, it's you need to kind of ask yourself, you know, how what do you like? What kind of tools do you do you

like? What kind of tools do you do you like? And to make it kind of the

like? And to make it kind of the technology like the platform itself should just be used as a tool and not as a you know, you're creating something.

Um, and it's not really the platform as such that will make this interesting.

It's just a tool. It's really the story that you use and how you present it and how it relates with other people that will be that will make the end the the

results um engaging to others. So and I guess like you know speaking like if you do it in a group uh you know speak to the other participants know what are the platforms that you prefer

um you know if it's something around like you know gaming experience or if it's like if you still believe that you know media social media uh are interesting or if you find like other

tools uh but usually know simple is beautiful and it's really like the story that speaks for itself um and thus becoming

more interesting ing both for the person curating and then for the audience that that particular space then um resonates with.

Well, thank you so much to both of you for for this wonderful session. I really

enjoyed this conversation and I hope all of you also uh enjoyed it and found it useful. these two wonderful examples of

useful. these two wonderful examples of how um we can approach uh digital platforms and digital spaces in different ways than what the mainstream

is offering. Um

is offering. Um yeah, I I'm very happy we had the chance to get together and and chat about this

topic and um is there any way in which uh you would like people to connect with any of your projects? Is there any website or contact info that you could

provide to our participants in case they have any questions or if they want to check out what you're doing?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean like it's the traditional media channels unfortunately. So LinkedIn uh I don't

unfortunately. So LinkedIn uh I don't have much presence on the other platforms because I don't want to promote them. uh but also like you know

promote them. uh but also like you know email and you know if anyone feels like they would like to test money age platform please feel free to sign up and

I will make sure that you can um you know have like a creator account and uh this is when magic happens absolutely perfect and you Danielle

yeah I was writing the the email for bill with beats but you can also connect me on LinkedIn So,

uh this is it and the LinkedIn I will search for just a moment.

Okay.

Yeah. And I I as well on Yeah. Thank you. And I was just about to

Yeah. Thank you. And I was just about to ask. Um and for me you can also please

ask. Um and for me you can also please um if you have any questions or if you like to chat about the project that you have that you think is relevant to this

topic um you can also reach me either through link LinkedIn or on my institutional email which is Christine.vidding

Christine.vidding umana.eu

umana.eu you I will share it in the chat as well

and yeah I thank you all of you for participating and uh see you in our next session. Thank you very much.

session. Thank you very much.