Ep.05 "Products can be standardized, but Trust can't." with Kolect CEO - Steven(Haobin) Huang

Hi audience, welcome to Shasha Talks.

Today we're glad to have Steven Hang.

Steven Hang is the co-founder of Kill.

Killect is tackling with the influence marketing problem, the aim of which is to be the AI CMO for enterprises and creators.

Hi Stephen, welcome. Join us.

>> Hi. Hi. Hi everyone. Thank you.

Thank you for for inviting me. Um glad to be here.

I'm glad to share about you know anything.

So Stephen, how do you feel?

Where are we right now for Colette?

Yeah.

>> So we started uh the early 2025, January 2025.

So it's our eighth month going into building collect and uh you know we've seen amazing progresses problems that we need to tackle. But I think in general uh it's a very exciting market to be in. There are you know brands are really uh rushing into influencer marketing and there are ton of pain points uh in this current market.

solutions. So I think we're just very excited to be in the market and try to innovate and to bring up you know the best solution possible.

>> I'm so curious about what's the entire process of killled um how do you help the enterprises to speed up their ROI the whole process? Could you describe them for us? Yeah.

>> Yeah. I think the so the fundamental thing about influencer marketing is that it's too labor intensive. So for you know current enterprises for brands the only way they could do it right now it's either they have to work with dozens of marketing agencies at the same time so that they could you know work with enough creators enough influencers or they would try to hire people inhouse to build it.

But fundamentally it's inefficient because there are too many labor intensive processes around the influencer marketing pipeline where you know you need to negotiate the prices you need to confirm on the date of posting and you know you need to confirm on the script the hooks so there are a lot of processes where um I think it's just it becomes um very inefficient for brands to manage them themselves or to work with marketing agencies so that's where collect come in that's where we come in we um try to bring it as a automated solution for brands where the only thing they would need is the budget and the product they're trying to sell in the goal and everything after that it's where collect jumps in you know we would actually go and vet the best influencers we would actually get in contact with them build partnerships confirm on the partnerships with them and then we would automate the process of designing the hooks designing the content guidelines and so that the the deliverable that we give back to the brand are the final videos so that they don't have to worry about anything in between while making sure that uh using collect we actually deliver them with the best possible uh results, conversions, sales uh in general.

So I think to describe what collect is trying to do or what how we you know the service that we offer is that we are trying to extract or abstract out all the processes that traditionally brand have to spend a lot of time on while delivering even better results. And um I think this is only doable right now through AI and through um real- time you know data inference and real time data abstractions but I think in general that's what collect is trying to help brands succeed in.

>> But you've mentioned several parts during the entire process and which part do you think the AI can empower mostly?

Well, I think um I think AI is really good at keeping in touch with the influencer and to make sure that um the deliverable gets published on time because if you look at the influencers that you know we're are working with or brands are working with.

These influencers are not like the bigname celebrities, right?

There are the small creators that they they could even have their own full-time job. So that it's not, you know, you can't manage them how a traditional marketing agency would manage a bigname creator. So um the you know AI enables us to really maintain a good relationship with the creators helping them with you know how they would succeed, how they would grow their account and you know just to be I think just to be integrated in their daily workflows of being a microcreator of you know not wanting to spend too much time talking to brands, not wanting to spend too much time thinking about the script.

So that you know we I think the the main um value added that an AI could bring in our pipeline is is in general just to be warm keep keep in touch with the creators so that whenever our brands want to work with them we are the first first ones that could get in touch with them and make sure that you know we can build the partnership ASAP and get everything started ASAP.

Yeah, maybe audience um are very curious just like me about um the outreaching to kill the influencers. Are you just doing the email outbounding emails or other um >> other ways?

>> I'd say that um it's a it's a mixture of of different um methods of communications.

We have email right now, we have WhatsApp, uh we have Slack, we have Discord.

So basically we're just trying to be there whenever like whichever platform the creator you know it's it's the creator is used to being that we'll we'll be there and we'll communicate with them because you know different creators some might prefer talking on email but for example like you know a lot of Gen Z creators they don't want to be on email they want to be on WhatsApp or be on the other apps so that you know we have to make sure that whichever app you are comfortable talking with us on we will be there and to engage with you.

>> Yeah. And what type of trends um have you observed in terms of the macro influencers in United States? um is the group are getting much bigger than >> Yeah, >> I'd say that um there are like I think uh Tik Tok brought a huge wave of micro influencers in the states and I say that um the the trend of microcreator in the US it's about a year or two behind that of China because you know China we had great growth on doin on a lot of other apps where you know local influencers micro influencers new accounts really can flourish with al uh recommendation algorith and you know they could reach to tens of millions of people and I think that's exactly what is happening right now in the United States where we're seeing so much more where so many more you know microcreators running on board starting their new accounts um for the past like you know a lot of accounts are started within the past six months so you can see like tons of new creators are joining uh this platform and they need a solution you know they are not the traditional um bigname influencers they need someone that could help them while they're not spending too much time on growing their So I think that this trend is what I think really excited us and you know drove us to start building collect in the US market.

>> And what's your classic uh customer image?

Are there more enterprises the big enterprises or um small medium enterprises?

Um I'd say the bigger ones um the big enterprises are what we're targeting because um like we started off trying to go with the smaller brands but um for a lot of times where we reach a smaller brand if they have not had enough experience with uh influencers or with micro influencers specifically then we would have to um it's so we have to sell the industry we will have to sell the solution in general. So we would have to persuade them first influencers are what you should go with and then micro influencers are what you should go with and at the end is where we say collect is the best platform for you to choose for you to work on micro influencers.

But if you work with brands you know enterprises that already have a lot of experience working with micro influencers then you're not selling the solution you're not selling the industry you're just telling them what you you know how you are different from the other solutions.

So I think uh our goal going into I think scaling collect uh in the beginning is where we don't want to sell the industry. We just want to work with people that already know about the solution.

So they're you know crystal clear about the painoint they have where we just need to explain to them how we're different and you know they'll uh you know instantly understand and see if they want to work with us.

Well, this is very interesting because uh the startups emerging startups uh in China um were talking onmemes but for startups in the states are talking the big corporates >> because they have budgets right so >> yeah exactly exactly >> what's your perspective on to this difference about the startup >> um I'd say that um let's see I'd say that the Um, I think for a lot of use cases, targeting enterprises is um the better solution, the better go-to solution because um you you're really, you know, you're taking out a lot of the let's say like a lot of the ends standardized processes in sales where uh you know, if you target the right customer, the right large customer, uh you get to validate your idea very fast and you get to uh increase your revenue run rate very fast if you can prove that you know you're really solving the key issue for them because I for SMBs there are just too much um information inequalities in a way like where you know different SMBs um they're they're probably they could be very different stages of where you know they're at you know what goals they have in mind how well they understand the market so you know you can't standardize their knowledge which means that the way that you would convert them it becomes very unstandardized >> where I'd say that if you just focus on targeting like one enterprise customer um you they could like one big enterprise customer can bring you to a million um annual run rate easily.

So I think you know just focusing on one and really prove the point before you scaling up is important. So I'd say that especially for our market I think um selling downward so like going initially with the top clients and then selling downwards to SMBs would be the best solution.

But you know there are uh there are a lot of products out there where the better solution for them is to um go with you know selling up market say for like coding tools um or like cursor like all these kind of products it's better if you focus on you know the end customers first and then sell up to market but I think you know it's varies case by case. So for us I think that's the better solution for us to go with.

Mhm. But why do you choose influence marketing?

Because you've dropped out for multiple times and uh I know yeah you just >> I think that it's it's such um first of all like I've been um a consumer app founder myself.

I've tried to grow products u scale my products with influencer marketing especially with micro influencers.

Um, and I think so first of all like I think just seeing firsthand the possible the potential ROI a a good micro influencer campaign can bring really excited me and you know it's the b it's probably the only um distribution method where I spend the most time on because I knew it was working so well and I think on top of that is just understanding the trend of social media where um like everybody's becoming a creator right like you know there are entrepreneurs um like you know people work at tech companies, they're starting their accounts, they're becoming influencers.

So I think this trend will continue on where like most people in the world will become a creator, a content creator of some kind.

So that >> you then I think the the logic that we had after that is if that is the case then you you would definitely need a solution to help these guys help these new to work with brands because you know they are customers they are potential customers they can drive great conversion and um you know they're open to partnering with brands so I think for us um the reason that we chose influencer marketing I think it's a combination of um seeing the result firsthand and seeing the trend where I think this is a booming opportunity um where you know there are going to be more and more demands more and more supplies so that you know I think this is something that's pretty exciting for us to um get into >> yeah well in my view uh the influence marketing is very resonate with the AI emerging startups we've seen a lot of emerging startups uh focus on AI products and with the influx and abundance of these AI startups um what's the typical pinpoint that you've observed in terms Yeah. the speed, the growth, the skill >> for AI startups growing in AI startup.

>> Yeah.

>> The main >> it's very common uh because they look very similar >> from outside, right?

>> How to marketing, how to grow is the common problem for them.

Um I think that for any AI startup you you have to find your differentiation or you have to like um if if you are building something that is like very similar to a lot of products out there uh you're not going to be able to you know even if you grow you're not going to be able to really retain the customers I think because um like as soon as for example like as soon as I start using cursor I would then start to understand or learn or hear about the other AI coding tools.

So if cursor was really bad, even if I started using it or like if there there were no different differentiation with cursor, even if I started using it, I think I wouldn't be a a long-lasting customer of it. So I think the reason that a lot of AI startups are struggling with marketing is because they have you know they're they're in the stage where they're not there yet where they're really you know narrowing down on a niche where they're they're they can they're confident that they're different in what we see with some of our customers too.

So I think that um the main growth idea or the main growth I think um advice I would have for most of the AI startups is just to narrow down and to not focus on a generic market but focus on a very very specific type of audience a very very specific type of use case because through you know social media through recommendation algorithm you know no matter how how niche the market you're focusing on you can get it to become viral you can get people to post about and to reach tens of millions of people.

So I think just starting off you don't have to think about a generic use case or a generic persona but like a very very specific type of people type of use case. So I think that's but I think you know a lot of AI startups are moving towards that because you know there are more and more supply more and more competition so people just have to focus on differentiation more and I think you know if we if we look back at it a year from now or a year and a half from now we'll definitely see much more saturated AI products in different specific niches where you know I think that's what the trend is moving us um towards >> but in terms of delivering paradox to your customers if your customers are in the same industry, they are competitors where you differentiate your strategy to deliver to them.

>> Yeah.

>> Um I think that's a great question.

Um I think if we work with enterprises um they actually really want to work with influencers that help promoted their competitors products.

So it's like it's like this say like you know if you have a pool of creators where you work with brand A um and you know the direct competitor brand A you know if you go to brand B and be like I have these 200 influencers that drove great results for your competitor and like the first thing they do is spend money and they want you they want to work with these people.

So I think this mindset it's like a bit different from startups where you know um like it's because it's such a growing market for a lot of startups they don't want these type of you know direct uh competitions or direct face offs but for you know larger enterprises for example like you know if you have three brands selling electronic gadgets or like iPhone accessories right and you know one of the brand work with 200 influencers the other two brands will want to work with them instantly if you tell them so I think this is one of the that we have for enterprise market where I think um you know having customers in the same industry is actually a plus for us >> because you get to you know rework repartner again and again with the same people where they will get better and better results and brands are willing to pay more and more >> but how do you match up the um ROI rate the result when you're managing uh different customers simultaneously >> uh >> so we'll give them affiliate links basically like they will have affiliate links to different types of products where um like basically we will start out with one campaign um like this influencer helped brand A and achieve like say $20,000 of sales and we'll basically use that to go to brand B and be like okay this if you guys want to try this out you know this is what we brought for your competitor uh I think you know if we work with you guys it's only going to be better and as soon as they agree we'll switch like when the previous partnership is um they'll just start uh going with the new affiliate links but it's all trackable actual results through affiliate links.

>> Well um it seems that there are two parts for building killet. One is the product well techdriven and one is funnel.

Which part do you think weighs more?

Um I think well I think I think um like a generic answer is both are very important but like as of right now I think funneling is is more important because um I I I would just say that like I think at different stages um we would focus like we'll focus on different things.

Right now it's where I think we're at the stage where we we proved some cases where we're confident in you know and we think that this is the type of customers that we want to focus on. This is why we're different you know this is we why we're confident we can bring them blah blah blah.

So right now I think we're at the stage where we want to really um develop the salesunnel, the distribution where we can work with like I I right now I have a list of like 50 brands in the US where I really want to get network to and like what I basically like I'll ask everybody I know of and be like can you intro me to this brand?

Can you intro me to this brand or anybody you know from this brand and then just try to build up the network and I think it takes some time. it'll probably take um like weeks or you know if not months to really develop this out and to be able to convert um some big enterprise customers.

>> Yeah. Regarding funnels uh what's the difficulty when you encounter with the uh enterprises your customers >> um I think is that they like a lot of them currently they have solutions already although they don't have the solution that we are providing but they they have like they work with tons of marketing uh tons of uh marketing agencies already >> and Um I think it's just there are a lot lot of things on top of tac that comes into play when you're trying to convert these type of customers. So yeah um you got to make sure that you're there on time like serving them be active you know as as as the supplier like as the service provider we have to be there we have to be active we have to really engage with them um and I think just have to I think there just a lot of inputs goes into play on top of tech where um we have to learn as we do it like we're not like previous like for how a lot of parts would work so kind of going through like client complaining client just being like being like hey you know what's going on with this thing and trying to understand you know how we should engage with our client how active we should be and how we should you know ask our client to refer us to to refer us to new clients I think all of these is um things that we we thought we could have automated but you know like AI couldn't really help too much in this but yeah I think it's just um the reason it's hard for us is because like we've never experienced it right so like every every time we we we get into something.

It's our first time we're u you know getting into it. So that's the hard part.

But I think it's it's going to get easier and more fun as we as we scale up.

Yeah.

>> But how to get connections with these big corporates through the warm intros through the references.

>> Yeah. I think the only way the only effective way is through um references and warm intros and but you have to be genuine, right?

You have to be genuine first and be really um like not not make them feel like you're just trying to acquire them as a customer but try try to like first of all I think just um try to make them understand that you are really there you can bring new values I think like you can bring added values >> um >> I think that's very important and warm trolls it's very efficient and important because um I think just um like the process of like us selling to enterprises we got to talk to like 10 times or 20 times more customers than how like the number that we're trying to acquire.

So, we got to talk to a lot of them.

And if you can build up a referral um way of getting in touch with them, it's going to be so much more efficient than like, you know, cold DMing them or just like, you know, cold outreaching them.

That's like I'd say it's a 10 times difference in the efficiencies.

Um so, yeah, one referral is definitely the go-to.

>> So, how does it feel uh for serving the big corporates?

Um what you serve the standardized product is there any other service that you have to add up on the top of standardized product for the customers?

Yeah, I mean yeah so like working with the enterprise customers even if we want a fully standardized product it it's hard to get a fully standardized product uh in the beginning because like you know if you are in a group chat with your client like when when they say something you have to respond right you have to like when they say you you got to do at least like two or three of them or like you're you're going to lose a client they're going to be like why are you not listening to me so uh I think we what we realized is that we have to be like um we have to personalize it or we have to do some sort of unstructured work for each client and um our focus is just to see the like identify the similarities uh where like of different clients when they ask us about different things and try to automate and try to make that process faster.

Like for example um like a brand would want for example one brand might want us to not use our platform to update data to them. they might want us to just export like actual Excel documents and to like to format the Excel documents in a way that um they will want it. So um I think that you know we had to do that for them but as soon as we did that we we kind of just added everything into our internal pool.

So when the next client wanted that you know we can deliver it in a few hours not in a couple days. I think just a lot of different things like this that kind of you know mounting up to um how you know we understand customization and standardization for our clients.

So your customers are not so desiring to have the baseball uh services from your vendor just like collect they're not >> um I think they they like they accept the standardization of our product but as like as we like as we provide the service we will pull a group chat right we will engage every day so like they would ask different things um within the service timeline where like a lot of things we might have to customize for them.

Like if I don't know if that makes a lot of sense, but um it's just because like you're actually engaging with your client, right?

Like you're not like if we're a consumer product where I don't really talk to my clients, then um then it will be very different.

But right now, like if we have 20, 30, 40 clients, we talk to every single one of them.

So they're going to be like a lot of unsanized feedback coming back >> and a lot of things where they're going to ask you, hey, I want this to I want you guys to make this for me.

Can you guys make it by Friday or Thursday?

So like there there there has to be ways where you kind of need to standardize how you would answer those questions too.

So it's it's just I think um it's just a process of experiencing all these like new um ways of working with enterprise that I've never experienced before and just trying to um come like trying to reason out the similarities the different main main things that they will talk about and try to automate parts of it where you know we can make it more efficient because right now we have like six people and we have to serve 30 clients and thousands of >> we have to make sure that it's very efficient.

But you only have six team members in your team but you have to address a lot of feedbacks from your customers.

How do you use any AI to empower your group?

>> Yeah, I think so we definitely use AI but we can't use AI like like 100% right.

It has to be like um for example like if we are updating our clients on the daily processes like you can't just have like a like two standardized or AI looking update where you know um if you send it the same the same format for like a week they're going to get tired and they're not going to read through everything and then next time if you know if something happens because they didn't read an update from you uh it's going to be your fault. It's not their fault.

So for us uh I think like for example just understanding and trying to summarize and trying to reason how like the most efficient way for us to update our client uh it took us like two or three weeks at least to really master that.

So we have to right now we have a process where we would update like 30 40 of our clients in a very authentic way and to really get the like tiny bits of data necessary to update them.

Um so that is in itself it's a automated agent pipeline where it would generate the you know 90% of how we will update the clients and then our human would you know take in the final look and send like 30 40 updates uh for this every morning to our clients >> and how do you view on to uh kill is not only the productivity tool is more like the platform integration platform to involve a lot of parts. So yeah, what's your plan for the future of Kill?

>> Yeah, I think so. I think um we would definitely try to be a distributional platform um >> for both sides. Um I think so right now we're I wouldn't say right now we are a platform and the reason is that I think right now um we have to like in order to deliver the best results for the clients right now we need like more control and more management on at least like one side of the the the the equation right so right now like we're trying to get more I think like I wouldn't say control but more just more active more involved with every single creator so as if it's like we sign them right like as if it's like they are our creator that we like manage full-time and I think as we build up more create uh creator like trust creator connections um it's where you know I think we can become a platform the platform is like you know we're we're not spending too much time or control on e either side it's more of a balanced um distribution >> so I think that as as long as we you know build up our image and to really get enough creators to really be active with us and to connect with and you know like mentally we have that brand image in their mind is where we can start becoming this um like full platform uh for both sides but I think it's going to be within like the next couple months or year is our goal.

>> I'm sorry uh did you mention that um some of the KLS in your platform are fulltime?

Uh so like we we sign them so like for some like we sign them we're some we sign them exclusively some we sign them but we're trying to bring it to them so that like as if we are not a software platform like software platform but we are really there to engage with them.

we're there to respond to them on time so that they can trust you and they like they would, you know, respond to you on time because like every single creator as soon as they they try to get brand deals, they're going to sign up to like 10 different platforms or like, you know, seven, eight different, right?

>> So, how would you make sure that like your platform or your your place is where they're most active on or they reply the fastest on or they actually care?

I think that's, you know, where we would come in right now as a solution to really engage with them and not just be like a sign up like a, you know, distant software platform where it's one of the 10 platforms you're on, but like we have a real person that's helping you as a talent manager engaging with you every day and helping you, you know, build up the talent campaigns. I think that's where we're trying to focus on right now.

Um, you like in the short term.

Yeah.

>> But why did they choose collect?

How do you gain the chance to front left >> versus other?

>> I think there are no shortcut in in this.

You just have to be genuine.

You just have to actually be helpful.

You just have to actually respond time.

>> Like like say if for example like if if we respond to every single creator message within like 30 minutes like whatever question they are.

And for example, if we actually provide them with good templates of contents that they can post, like we provide them with the best uh video hooks that you can post and like these things I think they um like they compound up like the these things compound like they compound to help the creator trust you more like these are the parts where you can't h just have an AI to you know replace everything because like the brand image the trust they have for you these are not stand like you can't standardize trust It has to be you just have to be genuine as possible. So we spend like 90% of our time working with the creators where like the 10% we're just you know trying to get brands to select creators like all those are processes but I think working with creators it's less like business processes or more of like like how you actually care.

So we just we try to care as much as possible like we try to be helpful as much as possible.

>> Totally agree. How do you view the competition happen in your industry?

Um I think yeah I think it's a very you know growing market growing very fast booming market.

So there's um there's definitely a lot of people trying to get into the market. Um I I think that we're trying like I would say that we're trying to solve it in a different way.

Um this is where we're I think we're different.

Um for example like a lot of brands will try to focus on a lot of products will focus on like the enterprise side in the beginning like focusing 70% 80% of their time on enterprises >> where you know like they would just become like a spam machine for for creators where creators don't trust them anymore and creators are not replying to them anymore um or like there are a lot of platforms that are trying to make I think like um trying to become like a specific tool uh that's helpful in one of the processes where I um at least for the enterprise that we are working with like they don't want a tool that helps them you know accelerate one they want the results. So um like our mindset is to build internal tools that our internal team uses but like ex externally we're delivering the results only.

So we're just you know we're trying to only persuade them with the results and to compare to other agencies with our results. So, I'd say that um I think we're we're trying to solve it uh in a different way. Like we're trying to solve it in um unconsenses way where it could be wrong, but if it's right, you know, I think we're we're really going to have an edge in some of the parts.

>> So, um how did you get your team?

I know the founding team of KED was composed of the Gen Z. You are Gen Z.

So, young, pretty young.

>> Yeah. Tell us the story. So uh we knew like all of us most of us knew knew each other quite a while back before we started collect.

Um so uh like me and my my co-founder we knew each other five years ago where like when he was doing his own um first startup but we we were both uh building in the social networking space.

So we built similar products and um like we're from different backgrounds.

He's very you know tech uh software driven or software backgrounds.

I'm more of like product marketing uh in the other side.

So I'd say that like having like similar experience in building these gave us like a lot of common topics to talk about.

So we just have the consensus of um how important influencer marketing is and how we just believe that the other solutions out there are not solving it in the right way or at least the right way that we think um how it should be solved.

Um and so yeah, we started uh and then the other co-founder um or the other uh yeah the the other founding engineer co-founder that we have um he was the so he worked with me on my previous startup where he was the CTO of my previous startup.

build good connections and then but basically like we're all friends like we have like it's all through either we work together before or we you know we knew each other as friends before and it's so the whole team of six right now we we're all like friends or previous co-founders and partners so we just teamed up like gradually and gradually uh kind of brought more friends in so that you know right now we're just this uh team of six.

So in terms of the workload that you've mentioned before um six people are enough for now or you want to hire more >> talents.

Well it's it's uh we definitely want to hire more talents. We just want to make sure that um we don't get like we don't put oursel in the wrong shoes like because um I think just like things change too quickly when we deliver or when we're trying to you know establish our full PMF.

So >> I think that the reason we're not trying to hire a lot right now is that >> is that like the the possible inefficiencies a new member could bring right now like we're not sure of.

So, I think that um like right now we're still at the stage where like if we hire, we're >> probably just going to hire people that either like through warm uh referrals or people that we know of. But when we like actually hire through the through the public and to get like full-time employees, I think that is probably another couple months or like two, three months from now.

>> But what is the standard for PMF?

>> Um >> in your industry? Yeah, I I would say that um there are like some specific standards that we're talking about, but I think in general, I mean, it's it's kind of cliche, but in general, it's like you you'll definitely feel it when you have it.

You know, it's >> like if you're if we are asking oursel whether we have PMF, we're not having PMF.

Like when we have PMF, it's going to be a time where like we we're not even questioning whether there's PMF.

So um I think that like I would say that when we have PMF is where we're confident that we only need to focus on or like we can spend most of our time on distribution on on sales channeling where we can hire like you know BDS hire uh business development person people and at the same time we can hire tech engineers to you know as soon as we have this whole cycle rolling faster.

So, I'd say like we're we're we're getting there, but you know, there are a couple things we want to work on. We want to be make sure that we're very confident with before up.

>> Yeah. Um I've known you for a while and I met you in this February or January.

Uhhuh. And I've seen a lot of growth happen in you. Uh well, I know you are so young, but you're so confident and you're getting more and more mature.

Could you tell us your inner story um through the journey the startup journey in this half years?

>> Um I think it's been very exciting.

Uh yeah I've so what I learned was that um like so going into like the first couple months I was very into working.

I was like working um in the morning and nights.

So it kind of like you know um I kind of lost like I I had no no balance of um like personal life which I thought like um going into like couple months into it um I kind of realized that I need to um keep exercising. I need to keep working out and like just trying to be as healthy as possible and which would make my uh work much more efficient.

So, I think we're in a stage where like our whole team um >> live together like we we rented a a house and like all of us live in the same place and we're just trying >> we're we're trying to work out every day and the rest of the day time we're either eating food, sleeping or working.

But it's I think it's very >> uh it's very important for the team to I think lift or I mean not necessarily live together all the time but to be together um not like only through the work time.

I think that's very important because like you know startup life is very um um you know it could change it's very it's very fast-paced so I think like having the team together um is very helpful like in both both mentally and and um like physically so I think my mindset right now is that I'm very grateful that we got the chance to like stay together and to work together on this and I think that this is very um It's much more efficient than like when we weren't staying together and we're just you know talking together working together during work hours. So this is I think the growth or the realization I had for the past couple >> well uh there must be a period of time um the hardships the difficulties that you've encountered with and uh how did you just go through the hardships with your team what is that?

Yeah, I mean um >> burn out.

Yeah, we we there were definitely like times of it where we're like we're physically kind of burned out, but I I' I'd say that just not like like internally um well again it might be cliche but I think just internally like knowing um what's driving you to work like like not trying to rationalize like a result like if I'm if I'm working just to get just so that I don't need to find a job or if I'm just so that I can make x amount of money. I think those are talked about um like during the process because you'll have to measure like whether oh whether the sacrifice I'm making right now is worth it, whether this is worth it, whether that is worth it and like as soon as you think something's not worth it, I think the whole like is gone. So um like I would say that it's just trying to um like trying to talk to yourself about like the core fundamental drive that's driving you to work forward and like try to not like quant quantify it so that you know it's it's like a north star where you know you know that you will enjoy the process. So I think the it's like jogging, it's like running.

You know, my dad used to tell me that like the if you want to be good at running, you have to really enjoy the process of running, not the process of like after you're you're done running because a lot of times >> used to run like everything I think about is okay when I'm done running I can get to rest, I can get to eat, I can get to do blah blah blah. But those are like it it like I became more painful and more and more painful as you know as I ran again and again and again and again until I kind of enjoyed started enjoying the process. So I think like right now I think I'm lucky that I'm at a stage where I kind of enjoy the process, right?

Like it's hard but like I enjoy getting up. I enjoy like working out with my friends. I enjoy like talking solving problems with them so that I'm not like thinking I have to, you know, get through this so I can earn blah blah blah or I can make blah blah blah.

I think this mindset is what very helpful uh for me as I um encounter like the different you know hackles difficulties I I face.

>> So your core fundamental driving is enjoying the process. I think my so I my core fundamental drive is um I really want to make something impactful like that's for sure u like it's not I trying to not related to the money money part of it or like the financial part of it but I think like even drive you have to really enjoy the process like you have to like you can't think of it as like I'm just trying to um like I'm trying to endure the pain so that you know when I when I get through the pain I'll be like no you have to really enjoy the process.

You have to be happy working every day.

So that's I mean that's I think one of the most important lessons um I learned. So like you can't think of it as a pain endurance journey or exercise where as as soon as long as you get through it you'll be successful.

So that's not how it works. I have to be enjoy the process love the process and be like as integrated with the process as possible every day.

Entrepreneurship is not about enduring something.

It's all about enjoying something.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. So, um I watched one of the like one of the speeches Steve Jobs gave when he was at Stanford.

So, like one of the thing he said was like you really have to enjoy like find something you actually love.

And um I think like this is something that like even if you fool everyone, you can't fool yourself. So like just like waking up and asking like ask yourself whether this is something that you actually enjoy.

you actually love like waking up every day for it. So I think this is like if you have the confirmation and like you you won't care about like what what's what happens on the way.

You just enjoy it.

It's like like if I'm um like this is something that I think I try to face myself and be as honest as possible with myself is like whether I really uh enjoy it or whether I really find joy working in it.

Even if it's something that like the world or traditional consensus will think this is something that's painful or that's boring like I have people around me like asking like what is wrong with you like why are you working all these time like like you know um all these questions but like I never thought of it from that perspective.

I just thought it was so fun. It's it's as as fun as I how I was like you know prepping for a basketball game or playing PlayStation when I was a kid.

So it's it's the same fun and I think um being around the team really added a lot to that.

So uh yeah, I think this is one of the realizations I had um for the past couple of months and you know thinking back of the previous journeys I had.

>> Yeah, you just kind of have so strong entrepreneurship spirit I think from my view.

Yeah.

>> Thank you.

>> Um Stephen, you are born in China but raised up in the States.

So um how do these countries just shape your characteristics?

>> Um well I think it's uh very interesting.

It's you know I could talk about it forever uh about these uh experiences.

I think the um so I I came to United States when I was I think 13 14 and I spent like 10 years u studying here.

What I think um I thought it was the best decision I could have had.

I could have had in my life.

Like looking forward it was there were a lot of things involved in it but like looking backwards I think I was very lucky to be able to um experience these two cultures because like growing up in China you kind of learn about like work like the the mindset of hard work the mindset of you have to really you have to um you know put a lot of effort in whatever you're doing and um I think that drive and like like the fundamental like science and different you know um courses really taught me a lot of fundamental things and I think going into the US for high school and college uh it I was very lucky because um I was encouraged to or I wasn't you know getting um I wasn't getting punished for you know trying out different things even if some things are um you know not exact same as like for example for example like when I first came to US I was I tried to build a uh a tea brand where you would sell like tea and plant plant teas I try to do it but like I actually spent time talking to the school and I was like hey I see you guys have this land behind you know uh the campus whether I could use it whether I could do blah blah blah and these things were like you know the school really encouraged me like they they they went through the process with me they were talking about different things with me and like how it will work so I think that this is going like working in the like studying in the US it made me kind of realize that um like whatever you want to do like there's nobody stopping you from doing it. So, um I think that was I think like the pro the time I had in high school taught me to just like not push back on your on your ideas on your thoughts.

Like if you think of something and you think it's working or you think it makes sense like nobody's stopping you from starting like nobody is starting but I think a lot of people would try to have this imaginary frame where you know you can't I can't do this because of blah blah blah or like all these reasons.

But so I think I'm very lucky because I learned that I have to work hard or I learned that I have to you know get enough knowledge and I also learned that um whatever I think is passionate or is the right thing to do I can start.

So I literally can start.

So um I I think yeah I'm very lucky to have been experienced in these two different cultures and to learn what I could have learned from um from each either uh culture.

It just hit me that uh do you have any customers in China? In China?

>> Yes, I do.

>> What type of customers they are?

>> Uh these they're like the top um like the one of the couple of the big brands that are trying to sell abroad like they're trying to sell um like different electronic gadgets, consumer electronics, hardwares to the US, Europe and different markets. Um so we have yeah a couple customers in China.

But based on your funding um history, you just raise money from >> Yeah.

local. Yeah. In the states.

>> Yeah.

So uh >> any advice for Chinese founders who are want to go global >> in terms of >> Yeah.

I think I think that um the thing is like some people are just too afraid to make mistakes, like too afraid to be wrong, too afraid to be laughed at, too afraid to be said no to.

>> So that >> a lot of people just like they they try a lot less than what they could have tried or they could have shot.

Um, and from what I realized is I think like for a lot of things whether like even if you think you're gonna get no like said no to um first of all it doesn't hurt for you to ask and like second of all is I think a lot of people if you genuinely ask them and to be as genuine as possible you actually get can get them to help you and that's what happened to me like I I asked people for referrals I ask people to um you know intro me to people and I've built great relationships with the people that got intro with me. So um I think the advice I'd have is uh especially in the US like you like nobody cares if you make mistakes like like whatever you do like a lot of people think the world cares but like you know in reality nobody gives a damn about you know what happens or what what mistakes you made.

So I think the mindset for me was just try to be like try to under like try to like be open to making mistakes and try to be open to for example like I have I know a lot of founders where they know that you know posting uh you know growing a Twitter account is important or not is helpful >> but a lot of people are just afraid to get you know post content and not get views or post content that that doesn't reach anyone so that they they just don't post like they stop posting but I think that like for that's a great example like if you're if you know that this is important, just keep posting.

Like nobody cares if your posts are getting views or not. Like you know, nobody's going to care. So just keep posting, keep posting and there's one day you're going to get your goals done.

So my advice is just to be I think be less afraid of making mistakes and be less afraid of like if you think of something just start trying and like if you continue that for a you know significant period of time you're going to succeed and I think um in the US especially you will succeed.

Okay. So, last but not least, one for entrepreneurs especially they are doing startups in AI era. Oh, uh, for fundraising, I think it's just, um, the main advice I have is like really just to start asking because, um, you I think in the US to raise funding, like if you're not applying to accelerators, um, warm referrals or intros are needed or necessary for you to raise funding from different uh, investors. So, um I think that in order to get those intros, um unless you know everybody, you have to ask, you have to approach, you have to um you know, keep asking you when necessary.

If if they're not responding, if they're not, you know, unless they like they block you or unless like they just like fully like report you, I think like if that's not the case, then you just can you can reach out.

You can start reaching out. I have one investor where I I remember I think I added him um and then I I like texted him for like 90 days like three months. I I've texted him like weekly updates kept texting weekly updates and at the end of the three month I got a meeting like those those are the things I think like if you're fundraising you just have to be open to like because people don't care if you if you harass them or if you ask them.

People don't care if you don't ask them.

So like people just don't care.

So just do your thing and like reach out to them.

Like I think if you can if you can get like 10 warm outreaches or warm intros like the percent the possibility of you raising a fund like a funding is very very like so much higher than like not doing.

I think it's like I'm I'm confident like if anybody can get like 30 or 25 intros to investors they're they're going to probably raise some funding in the US. So yeah that's my core um advice for fundraising.

>> I was so impressive for your uh weekly update.

you keep on sending that to me.

I was so impressive >> and I think it's core for you to >> to gain the trust from your customers especially for the big corporates I think.

Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Why do pretty well for now? Yeah.

>> Okay. It comes to the end and I'm so glad to have you here and um uh I want to say the future and opportunity in front of Kite and you and your team is bright.

So just go for it. Just go for it.

Okay.

>> Yeah, we'll definitely try hard.

Thank you.