EP-175 成蕾：央视主播、泄露机密与国安监狱里的三年 | 间谍罪 | 国安 | 危害国家安全 | 为境外非法提供国家秘密罪 | 政府工作报告 | 习近平 | 澳大利亚 | 新闻自由 |

Hello everyone, welcome to the podcast I don't understand, I'm the host Yuan Li

The guest of this episode, Cheng Lei, was born in Yueyang, Hunan Province in 1975 and immigrated to Australia at the age of 10, where she lived

spent his teenage years

In 2002, she began her career as a journalist in China at CCTV and CNBC in the United States

Being a financial journalist and host has documented the rise of China's economy

August 2020

Cheng Lei was taken away by the state security department for investigation, and she was held in solitary confinement and repeatedly interrogated for three years and two months

Until October 2023, he was released thanks to the diplomatic efforts of the Australian government

this year

Cheng Lei published a new book

"Memoirs of Freedom"

This should be the first time that someone has recorded and described it in such detail

What is the so-called residential surveillance at designated residences?

What is prison life like under the control of the national security department?

What kind of people are there locked up?

Cheng Lei's book is delicate, emotional and compassionate

The brushstrokes record this cruel and unwilling to look back

experienced

It also shows how individuals can maintain their dignity and independence before the state apparatus

Hello Cheng Lei

Hello Yuan Li

I want to start with August 13, 2020

Speaking of that day

Just you went to the CCTV office building where you worked and walked into one

conference room

A man

To you

Cheng Lei

I represent

Beijing Municipal National Security Bureau

Notify you

You because for

Overseas

The agency was investigated for providing state secrets

Can you tell me?

What was your life like before that day?

I had been in Beijing for eight years at the time

And then

As a single mother

Life has always been

colorful

And again

Fulfilling and busy

But because of the epidemic

then

My children's school

In February

I was told that classes would not resume

So

There was just a chance for them to go

Australia for a few weeks

So after they go there

Because China later closed its borders

And then they can't come back

The air tickets booked for them in March

They can't come back

So I had been separated from my children for half a year

I also want to get them out of the way through various channels

can make them

Come back

With me

This

Struggling

Then at that time

The mentality is

Every day suddenly has time

But

Apart from

Work social

And then it's busy

How to get the children back

I was at that time

There is an idea that is because of everyone

Because of the epidemic, I stayed at home and couldn't travel abroad

Then we will

I want to have so many ambassadors in Beijing

Then they are right

The culture of the country can do this

Let's introduce it in detail

And I am right

I'm a foodie and I'm interested in food

I thought of such a show

So when my leader asked me to go to the station

At that time, it was so

That's the day, August 13th

Talking about this new program

I'm still quite excited

So

arrive

This one

The worst thing in my heart is this moment of fright

This gap is very large

Can you tell me what happened next that day and how you initially understood all this that happened to you?

Was that the first time you dealt with state security?

It was the first time I dealt with it directly

Indirectly belongs

Friends

It's because the media friends are all kind

I have had a history with Guoan

I was invited to drink tea and chat

This experience

So too

I think it's more mysterious

But

I really didn't have any preparation in my heart

Because

I didn't know there was a prison

Such a terrible thing

While in Meng, I am actually still

There is one

In fact, it is still

Not very nervous

Because I think

Listen to this charge

It's so scary, it definitely has nothing to do with me

What am I doing?"

Then I'll cooperate

I should say

There is a saying

Then it will definitely be fine

So they

What took away my phone and bag, and then that group of people surrounded me

Then I searched my house for hours

With one

Facts are certain

Right, the truth definitely

Yeah

And then

The more they take these things, the better

The more it is, the more it proves my innocence

All the way to

When it came time for interrogation

I am also very calm

I said you ask

What is that?

I didn't do anything shameful

Then you will be next

It is what we just said, designated residence surveillance, can you explain to you what this strange word means?

Can you describe yours?

How do you spend 24 hours a day with this room where you are assigned?

I think prison is one of them

In disguise

torture

And she is

It varies from person to person

So she is based on

Your identity is based on

From you can

What information she felt she could get?

What iron case to handle

Then to your level of cooperation and your psychological endurance

It's all

It's really made for you

So

There is one

Single bed And the walls are upholstered

And then

There is probably a possibility

16 square meters

But I can

The area of the event is probably one

At most

Eight or nine square meters

Because

I am 24 hours

Just every minute

Both were guarded by two guards

Looking at them, there are three pairs

The three pairs of female guards are all young

And then

One was standing and the other was sitting, very close to me

They change positions every ten minutes

20 cm is 40 cm away from you

40 cm

Yes, it is

The other party has bad breath and then farts, that is definitely everyone suffering together

Go to the toilet, watch the bath, and watch sleeping

It's quite a saint

And then

I'm at any time

want

That's what I want

As long as it is moving

You must apply for a report

Apply to stand up and sweep the hair on the ground

Or

Apply for laundry

And then

What about this so-called exercise time?

It was the two of them standing one

A passage for human flesh

And then I was in the width of about a meter between them

Walk a meter and a half to the window

And then he came back again

You have to sit upright during the day, right?

Yes, yes, put your hands on your legs

Then you can't bend your legs

The ankles can't be crossed either

I can't sit down

Those who cannot sit crookedly must testify

It is to have that kind

I'm here

This

Good attitude

thought

It is not such a state in this ideological transformation

It seems that there are rules for you to sleep at night, right?

There are a lot of rules

You just can't sleep against the wall

Because

This fluorescent lamp is on 24 hours a day

so

Most people like to fall asleep in the dark

But

Because it's bright

So you will naturally want to face the wall a little

Not so bright

Because fluorescent lamps are there

put it on your head

And then

If you block your eyes with your arms, you can't do it

Then you can't put your hand in the bed

So it is

insomnia

At the same time

I have to think about these rules because

If you forget that she will wake you up

So you finally fell asleep

was tossed and woke up again

You describe those days as no clocks, no calendars, only white walls

In such an environment, time is for you

What does it mean?

Time is actually meaningless

Because

The other aspect of time is pain

You feel that time has stopped, you will feel that time has stopped

Walking too slowly

And then

you

Finally got one

A little bit of an idea, a new idea

Because you don't

Get any outside world

This stimulus so

You feel like your brain is exhausted

But when you finally think of something

You can only think for a while, and then it's gone and it's blank

Is

That kind of ocean of pain

want

Drowning you

But you have to continue

Survive

So

How to follow yourself

This

Various

The voice in the head to fight

All kinds of inner demons

It's true

At that time, I felt that if I was

Let yourself

The so-called entertainment will be very good for a few minutes

Proud

How do you entertain

It is to play idiom solitaire with yourself

Or

Translate in your head

Translate things

Ask yourself questions

And then

You will think oops

If I could have someone to chat with here, I could have a roommate

Who I hope it is

Or maybe I have it in my head for all kinds of people

Write

Or

Talk to them

Even in my own head

The brain supplemented one

Underground coffin FM such a radio station, and then I am

This host

There are various

Poor prisoners

These deflated and suicidal prisoners give it to me

Phone calls and stuff

The other one, of course, is to observe my two

Two of this at a time

The guards

I am quite sympathetic to you for these guards

You can say why you observe them, and they are also one

A pair to pass the time

And actually

Think about it

Apart from

It's who is the closest and closest person

So close

I've seen you for a long time

And you

In fact, it is within a very intimate distance

And he can't speak

But you are all human

Everyone feels it

So when they get sick

When they are sad

I would definitely feel the same way

For example, that time

The one because I couldn't find a substitute

The guards followed

Although she is

Probably so

Let's make a stomach

It won't work

Although the toilet in my surveillance is just

Two meters away

Because there is discipline

So I can only stand there

It's extremely sad to the end

Pull it in your pants

What is it

What a system is this

I am really impressed by this detail, then you

Later, I found out that it was Guoan

To investigate your reasons, can you tell me what it is?

When you learn the reason

What does it feel?

In fact, they didn't say why

Didn't say I was just

from

Various

channel

Come and collect

This information is then analyzed and pieced together

Because

They started

The day I went to court was the same

3/30/22

I just knew

I found out that they had been monitoring me since April 23 of that year

And this is exactly what is required in Australia

Traceability is the traceability of the epidemic

A few days later

And then not just me

They not only spy on me, but also other Australians in China

And then

In mine

I found it on this messy desk

This work report of the Prime Minister

They do this with this

also taken

I looked at other things

But

It is

It really is

For what

I

This through various information

Collecting and piecing together can only say

This is

This has to do with Australia

Australia-China relations are related

They start out as comparisons

The most important thing to ask you is that you are here

The Prime Minister's report was released seven minutes earlier

Send a paragraph to your friend at Bloomberg

Fan Ruoyi

Isn't it

Right

It is the message in the Prime Minister's report that there will be no economic growth target this year

Right

You were then

Did you think about it when you sent it to her?

This can be dangerous

What about risks?

No

Because

I think

I am a foreigner

And then

On CCTV

Expats do not need to be trained in confidentiality

So I think I can get my hands on it

Nothing

And

I feel that the government work report

You think I gave that at that time

What is it called: President of the European Union Chamber of Commerce

Yoguti

At that time, it was the same

That is

That same time

I showed her and she said I had seen it all

Then give it again

The professor of Peking University looked at her and told me

She said I'll take a look

There is none

And

In court, the testimony they read to me said mine

It is a colleague in the comprehensive news group

I don't even know who she is

And then

It is said that she told me this when she gave me this report

What secrets

Where is it?

Not at all

This is made up

And it is a matter that will be announced to the world in a few minutes, how can there be any secrets

And this

This report does not say what minute it is, and you know it is

International this

It is in the foreign media

If there is such a thing

The words of the restrictions are clearly written on it

Unbuggled until

What time

But this so-called 7:30 a.m. decryption

It was a year later

It is

This one

Court prosecutor

I called my case back to the police officer who was handling the case at the time, saying that you still need a report, and then they went to the Secrecy Bureau

Go out such a document

It is said that the decryption time is half past seven

But I think

Even this

Report that

Make a fuss about other things

They can also be made

The so-called

The so-called ironclad evidence

of the evidence chain

There is nothing they can't do

Yes yes

you

Sending is the reporter who texted this paragraph, that Fan Ruoyi

Hayes is a reporter for Bloomberg News and your best friend in Beijing, and you spend a lot of time describing it

She was there

When you were at your lowest point in prison, you hated her and you wanted to vent this resentment on her

On her head, you wrote in the book that I resented her for using me to harm me knowingly, and I resented her for treating others

Others for her

Gains

The price paid

Turning a blind eye, I didn't treat her as a victim like I did, because I needed an outlet

An object to vent anger on

One can be shared

Suffering people in my head, I yelled at her, you let Eva and Alex be yours

Two children lost their mother

You narcissistic bitch you know every time you ask someone

How dangerous sensitive information is

you

Later, when you knew that she was also in prison, your feelings changed, can you tell me about your feelings for this Hayes Fan Ruoyi

Do you really blame her for this complicated emotion?

I'm not a person who holds a grudge

I am a try to put it as much as possible

Negative emotions

lowered people

So at that time, there should have been such a psychological activity, which was to hate her

Or the particularly angry mental activity should be me

This one has both

The trough of life is when you want to die

It should be approximately

It looked like that at the end of October

And then

afterward

Later came to learn about her

was also arrested

And then it arrived

Jail

Because of a coincidence

Know where she is probably locked up

Even in the corridor

hearing

When I heard her voice in the corridor

In fact

Moods are very complicated

Because

I feel like no matter what

No one

It should be in this trajectory

No one

It should be in this hellish place

I

I was sad

It's not good to be sad with others

Even she later gave it back to me

at

She passed after she went out

ambassador

Give me

Transmission means to hold on

Information

She knew at that time that she was actually out

I don't feel good either

It is

She came in later and went out earlier than you, right?

But

It can be said

misery

The longer it takes, the more likely it is

My heart is still getting more and more

The more peaceful it is

And

Because because she is a good friend and knows her

Very smart and very good

We chatted very interestingly, so

I also thought about it at the time

It's a pity that we are because

They are all involved in the case

It is designed that the same case cannot be together, otherwise

How nice it is to have her as a roommate

At least there are many things

They all have common points and common views

You can complain together

Then after you were released from prison, did you have any contact with Heizi and Fan Ruoyi?

You say you used to be best friends

Right

I sent her WeChat and Instagram

But she didn't reply

And she blocked me

You were once best friends

The National Security Bureau took out tens of thousands of you, fifty or sixty thousand

Is your WeChat communication record the person you send many, many WeChat messages a day?

No matter how you look at it, she is returned

I blocked you and didn't reply to your WeChat

Or you

Either WeChat or you're on Instagram, which is outside the walls

A means of communication

Or maybe she thinks

Those words I said

She doesn't like to listen

Because

You miss me

I also received her twice in 2023

As far as I received this message from her twice when I was in the detention center, it was said

She heard me singing in the detention center on Christmas Day

And then

Another time he said let me hold on

But

Or maybe because I said it after I came out

Even all the media in the world

I was interviewed

I will not be interviewed by Bloomberg either

I don't know if this sentence reached her ears

But you suffered so much

She also suffered

Just like many national security cases, your case is a very long process

Moreover

It is the law

It almost fails in this process

That is to say, there are no laws

I was impressed by the description you described in the book

At first, you think this process means that I didn't do anything

As you said earlier, you should check it

But later, you will have this kind of thought, that is, maybe I deserve it

Maybe I really did something wrong

How this shift happened

What you can talk about is national security

person

What did they do to make you, and how did they make you slowly internalize the concept of my guilt?

I think it may not only be national security, but maybe this Communist Party system pays special attention

This makes you always self-reflect and self-criticize

I was completely isolated

You can't imagine that you can have such a place in this information age

No one can be reached

And you are

It is completely isolated both mentally and physically

So when you have this opportunity to interrogate

You will be quite excited

Because I can finally talk

I remember that sometimes I only said a few words a week

Except for the kind of report to go to the toilet

There is none

There is no chance to open your mouth

So

When the only person who can help you communicate with you is a police officer

There may be something like Stockholm syndrome

You'll feel like hey

Maybe I really have a problem

They put in so much effort, right?

Some people are half-red-faced, half-white-faced

Some people also expressed that they care more about you

Isn't it

There are still people who will

Give me this advice based on my personal life

Because I have nothing

So they became mine

The only person in the world

And they would keep giving me paper and pen

Let me write this kind of confession

Then we call it self-criticism

Self-criticism is right

In fact, it became a confession later

And then they

It is written in my book

It was when I first wrote this

I'm still very naïve

I thought it was just what I wanted to write

I thought it was like being abroad

It's really the self

It is the expression of truth

Then months passed

I just knew that all they wanted was four words

I just plead guilty and accept punishment

Right

That's it

Other details are irrelevant

It's what they say

Right

Then they talked to me

We talked about it many times

Then I found out

They are actually

Well

Just to make me think that I am guilty

And then it's just admitted

It means that you admit it

That's all OK

We'll lose to you

We will

It will seem to look up to you

Right right

So slowly I thought

I only do this

I can do more

Faster to go to jail

And then be able to have a family

There are especially my children who come to visit

And then in my head

There is such a concept

It is to do whatever you do

I need to hurry to prison

Right

Then can you tell me

That's why you are like this

I still spent six or seven months in prison

Well

It was later in the middle of this

Change is to change to you to this

It is the Detention Center

Let's call her a detention center

What kind of change is this?

oh

It was a change of hell and heaven

I think people

long-term

This high-pressure surveillance

Plus

Well

Extremely this

Isolate

was isolated

It is very devastating

So

I have always felt

Well

Although the food in the prison is much better

But

A hundred yuan a day, right?

I remember

Yeah

Just the self-help of their police officers was taken by me

But

I

rather

What are you giving me wrong?"

This condition

I'm willing to accept it

I don't want to suffer like this

You are in the book

You also spend a lot of space writing about food

Arrived at the detention center

Just you mentioned the detention center

The food suddenly became very bad

And then you write about this food

Write about this feeling of poverty

You also spent a lot of pen and ink writing

Well

You are outside of despair and sadness

You are also fighting and sustaining yourself

For example, you use steamed crabs

Make this cake for the fellow inmates

The so-called birthday cake

Then there should be curls with toilet paper

He even taught his inmates English

You still follow that

I still read it for so long

Right

Then teach singing

Then you, you, you tell everyone

Just describe this as well

to prison

This detention center

What does this detention center look like

And just say

A story between you and your fellow inmates

I especially like it

The one you are separated by a thick wall

and the one next to it

next door

The cellmate in that room

Talk by knocking on the wall

And that person

Someone took the risk to deliver you a book

Later, I fell in love with you

I think

When I watched

I was a little stunned

I said this can be done

Right

You say a little

I really think you

Although it is very, very painful

It must be very painful

But you really have this kind of joy in suffering

This kind of talent

I think it's unfortunate

Most Chinese people are very good at having fun in hardship

Sometimes

You see, your cellmates are not like this

Basically not like that

You really are

I think after arriving at the detention center

Because I was able to communicate with my roommates

This psychological condition is much better

Plus slowly

They felt that they had a confession

With the so-called chain of evidence

Then just wait for the court

And

As a favorite

For people with this interesting life

Then I have to live a different life every day

How is it different?

It is in an environment of extreme material poverty

In fact, your creativity will be stimulated

It's just a small thing

For example, we are suddenly told all at once

That toothpaste can't have a lid anymore

It was to buy new toothpaste

I can only give you the toothpaste itself

Then you won't do it

Then we started using all kinds of waste

This little tin foil

Or do it in plastic bottles

Come stack one

A lid that perfectly covers the toothpaste

This is also creation

And this can also be done

We are all still comparing

Whoever is the best

And the surveillance next door

There is such a connection of knocking on the wall

Of course, we were later defended

And he was punished

I was able to do it at that time

It is also because of the epidemic

It was that round that was the most powerful

The epidemic that hit Beijing

Maybe it's the end of 2022

Maybe the detention center is not enough staffed

That's why

Because we have five of each monitor

This camera

And there is one that is directly watching

This translucent bathroom

I say translucent

It is frosted glass from the waist down

But in reality, it is a transparent one

One such a small point

There is a shower head inside

Then there is a squat side

And then

So you're inside

What are you doing in the toilet?

They also see it clearly

Also watch

Because sometimes it's because I'm in the toilet

What stayed too long

Or what

Illegal time laundry

was just been

Because there is also a walkie-talkie in each room

The thing on the wall of the intercom

For example, you take a nap

Then go to the toilet at night

You have to press that walkie-talkie too

It is to notify the officers

I'm moving now

And then

This actually affects everyone's rest

But and they see you at all times

For example, once I was hugging

It's that she is crying

I hug my roommate

And then

hissed

That alarm went off

Then the officer's stern voice came

What are you doing?

And that

What not to do

It means not to be together

Don't touch her or anything

Don't hug

Anyway, there is often that kind

You are doing something in an instant

You forgot

You are

You are a traitor

You are you are not human

And then you think

I'm a friend

Or me

I want to comfort her

Or me

What did you spoof?

Then everyone laughed

It was in this moment

All of a sudden

That alarm went off

Everyone

I'll be back soon

It's us

We are nothing

We

We are not even qualified to laugh

And I especially want to say it now

It's for those five-cents

It's black mine

Can you be a little creative?

Right

It's just whether you can think about it

Don't just say it there

Say I'm old there

Ugly

And what kind of foreign gun team

Can you show me some."

Fun stuff

Right

You see what you can do when you work

So many tricks

Right

That's right

You are black, and I have to come up with some tricks

Yeah

Can you tell me?

That's what you are doing

In such a situation

And your walls

It should be very, very thick

It is completely inaudible

The voice next door

How can you come knocking on the wall

Come and talk to them

Because the epidemic was more serious at that time

So

Don't let us let the wind go

But

It opens every morning

The door of the wind farm

It's the so-called wind

In fact, it is still a cement box

You can only see a little bit at all

A little bit of day

Then you can stand

It just can't enter the wind farm

But what about when the door opens in the morning?

She just lets the air convection

Well

I'm standing on that

The mouth of the wind farm

Start singing

And then I heard it later

Well

The roommate next door

Particularly bold

Particularly loud

She might go there too

It took a little longer than me

Then he said

what

Love your singing

Or what

We monitor yes

Well

112

What love you 112 or something like that

Then I said thank you

I'm very happy

It started later

Well

Start looking

That's every time

When opening the door of the wind farm

Just stand in that place

The so-called chat

It's actually very hard

I have to shout loudly

Yuan

beautiful

How are you

And this is risking

Great risk

But why we are

It was discovered two weeks later

Definitely because

There were not enough guards at that time

Well

And then

You knock on the wall

Can you tell me how you knocked?

This is the spelling

How to spell this word?

Well

You said

That's right

We are particularly ironic

That is, we are not spies

But

Because we especially want to

Communicate with other people

So I used one instead

Spy's password

Such a way of communication

Well

It's actually very simple

It's a knock

z is to hit 26 like this

So

I remember that time

It was communicated in English

Well

Right

English is also available in Chinese

Because we also played idiom solitaire

But just knock on that

The first letter of every word

And then it really didn't work

He was very loud at the window

shout

I hope the other party can hear it

Sometimes I picked up a few

I can't take it anymore

Well

And then I found out

There is a roommate next door

I have a special idea

Well

I can say that I have seen it

One of the most romantic people in this world

Because

Right

She was able to give it to me

It is

Knocked on this more than 400 times

Then she typed pinyin for me

Then he knocked out the hidden head

It's a hidden head

Well

Tibetan head poem

Yes, but because it's not poetry

But if you spell it out, you love Cheng Bud

I didn't react yet

But my roommate

She is more powerful

I heard it right away

We are all amazed

It's true

alas

Than

Then you later

You said

I said compared to us

Use this GPT to write love letters

Where is it really advanced

Because you are in the book

You also asked a question

You said in the Beijing Detention Center

Among the more than 30 prisoners

How good is a spy

Instead of turbulent international relations

Collateral damage

Maybe you can say something

That's why you feel this way

Inside the prison

you

How can you feel it later

It's China-Australia relations and your case

The association between

For example, when I was arrested

At that time, it was required to trace the source

Australia's Liberal government

They govern

By May 22

At the time of the election

The Labour Party won

The Labour Party has always been regarded as

It is indeed more pro-China

A party

So when it comes to that time

I've been locked up for two years

So in the past two years

Australia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs

There are also embassies

Always helping me apply for one

I was able to work with the kids

An opportunity to speak

Because of what I know

Canadian

They all have

There have been several times

Phone calls with family members

This is not impossible

But anyway

How we apply

Even at Christmas

I said it's okay not to call

Just let me

You just put a paragraph

Children's recordings will also work

But this was also rejected

Until the Labour Party came to power

By November of the 22nd year of that year

The G20 summit in Indonesia

Then the Prime Minister of Australia

After Albany met with Xi Jinping

Then three weeks passed

I was approved

With my mom and my children

For more than three years

The only phone call

And since the Labour Party came to power

I feel it

Of course, it may also be because

This Foreign Minister Huang Yingxian

It is also more concerned about my case

Or

Anyway, the relationship has changed

Until I was judged

It is sentenced

can be seen

This politics is a sentence for an ordinary person

It has a great impact

Yeah

When I read a book

There is a feeling that is

You are Australian at heart

It's your attitude towards a government

It can be against people's rights

Completely and ruthlessly deprived

Very angry

And it was shocking

Moreover

You've had some with lawyers too

It turned out to be later

Some unrealistic fantasies

Can you tell me?

Before and after all this

Your Australian identity

Are there any changes？

I used to think I was in language

Well, it still is

Linguistic and culturally dual personalities

So I was in front of the Australians

I feel that it is a lot

As some characteristics of the Chinese

And then it kept going

So in the past few years in the detention center

Or the past few years of being locked up

For the Chinese regime

Have a more personal experience

So in fact, from this aspect

It's also a good thing for me

My dad is just one

Let me tell you

This state

Your dad is a big traitor, isn't he?"

And with your dad, isn't it?

In fact, there are quite a lot of differences

To this regime of the CCP

That's right

Not at all

We didn't say to go up to points

It's just a quarrel

It's just that she thinks

Her generation had seen it

There are more evils like this

So she will never forget

But because I didn't have it when I was a child

It was a year after I was born

The Cultural Revolution ended

So look at the back

Plus came to Australia again at the age of ten

So see

Not as much as she saw

But

And work as a business journalist

They are all looking at China's economy

Such a step-by-step development

This country is changing, right?

Right right

This is also one aspect

And then as an Australian

Actually, I was in the detention center

With my roommates

There is an exchange in this regard

It's what Australia is like

Then they are also very moved

For example, there are strangers

Write me a signed letter

Go ask the Ministry of Foreign Affairs

I want my contact information

Write to me

And then it's about supporting me no matter what

Believe me

After I came back

On the street, in the supermarket

A stranger hugged me

And one more point

I don't think it's Chinese culture

It is a relatively hard culture

It's just that our hearts are very hard

For example, if you are in

An ecology in Chinese

Go and see how to describe me

And how to describe me in the English environment

I feel like it's just two people

That's why everyone thinks

What do you want to do with me?

What is coming

Peel it and then bury it alive

I think even in the West

I want to blacken someone

I wouldn't use such a vicious way of writing

So I like it very much

Australia is a very open and inclusive country

It's fair

A very kind society

Right

I think what you wrote in your book is just saying

People from the Australian Embassy

Right

They are during the pandemic

Then try to see you

And then they have one

Young people always read you the news

Right

Read the letter and read the news

Whatever is right

And your boyfriend

Those touching letters to you

I really think

It was a very special touch

It is to treat you as a human being

Isn't it

It doesn't matter what environment you are in

I'll be honest

When you are wronged

But even if you are wronged

Don't you have the right to be a human being?

That's right

Because of what I know

In Australian prisons

It is possible to make almost unlimited calls

I was devastated when I heard this

The whole defense was broken

And the roommates I came into contact with later

I also think

Not everyone

In fact, there are times

Chinese people don't know that there is such a thing

And they don't even believe it

There will be such a thing

Two people look at you

24 hours a day to see you go to the toilet

Watch you sleep

Such a system

Not to mention that I experienced it

Yes yes

Right

It is to treat yourself as a human being

Treat others as human beings

That's how it is

I always say this

In this way, the living environment of each of us

It will be good

Right

So sometimes I follow

Those Westerners who are overflowing with compassion

Chat about this experience

They will say

Didn't you contact your family?

They couldn't believe it

But talk to Chinese about this in China

They might say

I had been in prison at that time

I've experienced worse

Or our family during the Cultural Revolution

Or at the time of this kind of land reform

The torture experienced is even worse

So they were all shot

Right

So it's like the standard of our human nature

Relatively lower than the same

Including the police officers, they always tell me

You're good enough

There used to be rats

Or what is contentment?

You just

They will always be compared with before

I always feel that I have made a lot of progress

But they don't compare horizontally

Compare with those evil Western countries

My kids always joke with me

Why aren't you in Norway

If then you have a PS5

The game console played

As far as Norwegian prisons are concerned, they are really too humane

Right

I also looked it up online

The best prison in the world

What top ten

Are you sure

Because it's not about you

The same is true for your prisoners

For the humanization of your society

A measure

Right

Then you are now the one you just watched

What we just talked about was

You still see the message inside the wall

It is because of these Internet within the wall

It's always about you

In fact, anything is labeled as a spy

Rumors and online reports of traitors

You love China so much

I can feel

I really think you are a person who loves China

was labeled as such

How do you feel

The feeling is particularly complicated

Because what is China

Right

And I as

And I think we are very interested in

Just don't say that you were born in China

As long as you look Chinese

Our standards

In fact, it is very picky

We ask her for what she calls patriotism

I just can't say a word

The so-called anti-China or anti-China

I am anti-Chinese

If China is not good, it is anti-China

Yes yes

So what a traitor is also one

Words that are particularly abused

So what does this mean?

In fact, what we are moving is

Who is the so-called hurt?

Is it an ordinary person?

Is it the so-called state?

Then it was in the middle of my case

They later found another bureau

Go out to prove it

That is, I am because of this

How about the text message to Fan Rongyi

What is coming

What kind of dignity does it damage to the country?

Or something

So I think

Do I really have such great ability?

Right

It really is

Our big country is careful enough

Yes, be absolutely careful

Seven minutes later is the message known to the whole world

I locked you up for more than three years

And it is such a cruel way of imprisonment

That's when your case goes to court

And when your verdict comes out

It is that when you learn that you are released, you will be deported immediately

What do you think

It's what kind of emotion you were at that time

Do you still want to go back to China?

This question is asked to me a lot

And then I wrote about it in the book

I said a bit like asking a woman who had been subjected to domestic violence

Will she go back to be with her husband again?

But in fact

Yes, I said later that my standard answer is

If I feel safe

If I feel like I'm welcome

Or at least not been

Still hacked on the Internet

Then I'm willing to go back

But these two conditions are

Yes, when the prosecutor talked to me about my sentence

Even that feeling was very strange

Even if my fate can still be bargained

Tell me about you and the prosecutor

It is your sentence for yourself

What were your original expectations?

And then she gives you a few years

You actually felt a big sigh of relief

I was hiding there and I was very sad

Tell me

That's the police officer

The officer said it was about six years

Then the prosecutor came to see me

She showed me a book on law

That is to say, how many years are the two secrets

And then the two secrets are how many years

And then how many years are the two top secrets?

And then it means

I should be

It was supposed to be more than five years

Then after her unremitting efforts

Cut me like a chopping frame for five years

And it also exempted me from this additional punishment

The additional punishment is deportation

She said considering the father of my children

It is Chinese in China

So

That's how they can be done

It makes it convenient for us

It can reunite children with their fathers

But then he said

Of course, the discussion at that time was still the same

My sentence is five years

Until the end I was sentenced to two years and eleven months

So later this still had this additional sin

Additional punishment

Then when the verdict is pronounced

Of course I think

Is there anything more important than freedom?

But I don't know

Why are people deported?

Just why there was deportation

Then you can't apply for such a thing for ten years

Are you afraid that I will return to China and continue to make waves?

Of course, there are too many places I want to travel now

So you don't necessarily need it

I don't think about it all the time

But that teacher Ma Jian

She said

She is used to it

Regained the sky

But the writing of the land was lost

I have a response to this sentence

I was very touched after listening to it

That's true

Then can you describe it to you?

Just what your previous work at CCTV International Channel was like

I saw you say in an interview

As a business journalist

I always felt safe

I speak two languages

I know the local culture

I know where the red line is

But I had no idea what it turned out to be

I want to know how you viewed censorship in China before

And this opaque legal environment

I am often asked what news censorship is like in China

So through my observations

There is also a personal experience

She is constantly accelerating according to her audience

That is, the more elite your audience is, the more it is

It belongs to those who have a handle

She can grab your handle

Then the looser it is

The strictest I think should be ordinary

Isn't it just Chinese TV people

Yes is the one who has nothing

Because the most feared is the barefoot revolution

Then this aspect is the strictest

But in English or foreign language media

Because her audience basically understands English

Those who understand English in China

Or people abroad

So in fact, I think there is still quite little censorship

And I've always been naïve to think

Whether naïve or stupid

I think I am within the system of this CCTV English channel

In fact, I can still do something that makes some changes

For example, I will try to invite those who have different opinions

Especially foreign guests

Because I didn't like it at the time

That's compared to CNBC

CNBC has a variety of guests

And will go anytime

We have people who specialize in inviting guests

Then the producer goes to make all kinds of people

Only then can we bring you more fresh perspectives

But on CCTV

The person who invited the guest

She will have what we call the Four King Kongs

They are all professors

Then he came and gave seven or eight hundred yuan each time

And then I said

It is definitely yes

They say it is absolutely safe

And it is definitely what the party loves to hear

But I am very annoyed by them

Then my daily purpose

It's just that I don't invite them on my show

As long as it's the time I'm on the show

I will try my best to invite foreign guests

Another is

As long as I see any news that says Xi Jinping

I automatically deleted it

Then change it to another word

Because I think

Or Beijing or China

I think it's a cult of personality

It's already ridiculous

I would like to discuss it with you again

It's you to Fan Ruoyi

Do the news view

You write in the book

It was that she knew she wanted to be exclusive

And these scoops are sensitive

She also often gets scared of her sources

That includes you

will be arrested by Guoan

You look back now

What do you think of her work

You feel as a journalist

She wants exclusivity and personal security of her sources

Does it constitute such an irreconcilable conflict?

I think that's what I want to discuss

It is this reporter and information source

It's ours

What we call a relationship between sources

What is it like?

When I was inside

I always think of that little plum movie

It's called a snow drill

I think it's also in the press

News at the cost of snow

In exchange for news

I am very much because of the current concept of national security

This is expanded

The risk of the source is increasing

Maybe it was okay before

There is no such heavy price

But now

First of all, there are far fewer foreign media reporters in China

Everyone catches spies through all kinds of things

These brainwashing in terms of national security

I also dare to say that I dare to talk to foreign media

There are even fewer who dare to tell the truth

Then if there are such rarities

This person exists

So how to protect them?

You say at the end of the book

I hope readers can distinguish between China

Chinese and CCP for a long time

I have a lot of knowledge about everything related to China

They all avoided talking about it

Especially anything that reminds me

Things from this regime

Even if friends talk endlessly

Their good times in Beijing

I would also cringe

Because the CCP regime is omnipresent

It is difficult to compare it with Chinese technology

Chinese culture and Chinese people are distinguished

I'm learning to differentiate my feelings now

I can firmly oppose the CCP

Human rights violations

without feeling like you're denying it

own traditions

Some attacked Chinese Americans

I hope we can all enjoy it freely

The hard work and wisdom of the Chinese people

Enjoy a deep and rich culture

At the same time, it is also fearless to expose

In some corners of China

Repression and torture that occurred

You can say it

Why did you write this?

I think China is one

Huge and complex

It is full of contradictions

A concept

So

while

The regime wanted

She put

Everything is mixed together

when

In fact

What they want to do is

Stabilize their regime

But

I think

Probably in the West

be

Pay more attention to the individual

There is no one

Where did it come from?

It's just that there is no small family where everyone comes from

But what is being promoted in China is

Only everyone has a small home

There is no country without a home

Yes, like us

Every time I say it

There are many

This is a more naïve foreigner

When you go to China, you will watch

Oh, high-speed rail, what a laser show

What technology

But they didn't see it

This is

At what cost

She didn't see them one by one

There are so many living lives

Migrant

I haven't gotten it for many years

Labor security

You can't even get it

The remuneration of one's own labor

How many unjust cases

How much

How many people petitioned

Blocked and beaten

When none of these can be done

When it was reported

How can you

said it was

You understand or you see China

I'm special

disgusted

It's very

Simple and crude

Let's talk about China

Me too

I hope I can do my best

For a change

intact

Chinese story

Add my voice

that

It should be until November 11th of next month

You will be released and returned

Australia's second anniversary

It's next week

Just this week

Because it's already October

October 11th

There are still five days left

Right

Then you

Willing to share

Your current life and state

You will think about it often

Is that more than three years of things?

And your two children were so young at the time

What impact does it have on them?

In fact, it has an impact

I can see it every day

Because I'm not there

Only my mom

Take care of both of them

Then my son

It's been a long time

I live with my mother

My daughter went to boarding school

So let her be

Became independent very early

When you were arrested for 20 years

How old are your children?

20 years old

And now they are 14 and 16 years old

I

Although it can be seen

Everyone's scars

I am also trying my best every day

Not just healing yourself

Also make up for it

My family

But

I think the more positive point is

Thank you

It will come out in 2023

Instead of going as planned

The original plan was to wait until November this year

can be released from prison

If that happens

I think the impact is even greater

I guess my daughter is

In many ways, he is already half an adult

Do you still often think about those more than three years?

For me

Think about these things

Or go out and give a speech

Interviewed

And writing this book

In fact, it is all my healing

A very important part

You don't shy away from it, do you?

Not shy away from it at all

I also think this makes me feel

Particularly free

Because you want to

The entire national security system

All a

Not just lock you up

And change your brain

And change your mind

And shut up

Such a mechanism

Let you castrate automatically

So that you never dare to speak up again

And then everything I'm doing now

Including continuing to do news

Including writing columns

That includes chatting with you

Last night

With Murong Xuecun

With Lu Xinhua

chat

These are

able to make me

Things that feel free

So it's very good

What are you

You are actually in it

I still read a lot of books

More than 300 copies

More than 300 copies

Were you a person who loved reading books before?

I was when I was a child

After becoming a mother

There won't be that much time

Can you tell me?

Just say you're inside

Your favorite book

What is it

This is staged

When both

It is the pursuit of density

It's best to be that kind

For example, the book "Ode Appreciation"

You can read and memorize every day

Although it became in the end

to China's ancient culture

A little aesthetic fatigue

feel

It is as soon as you see the moon

It's sentimental

As soon as I saw what summer rain was

What sycamore

It's all kinds of sorrow

And then it arrived

Because at that time, I felt that I couldn't help but read the novel

It won't work

Later

I especially like to watch

They are all not seen much from the outside

For example, poetry

Science books

Philosophical books

history

Because it will make you right

own

This situation

There is a new idea

And I especially like to watch

Able to share with roommates

A book that allows you to talk about your feelings

After all, every day

Nothing else but this

Things are easy to talk about

Everyone's life story

I have said it eight hundred times

After you are released

Also give a lot of writers who have inspired you

Many people wrote emails and replied

Among them were Taiwanese writers

Longyintai

Can you share why you are

Write to them

I think they gave it to me

Such a precious gift

I must let them know

Their words

Because it's not just me

There is a book in the surveillance

Everyone shares

Unless you have this in your heart

of each battalion

And then

Maybe others just read books

pastime

But under surveillance

Especially the national security watches

Then an environment

That was a lifesaver

Simply that's it

resemble

Like medicines

resemble

Anyway, it's too precious

So I must let them know

And each of them

Very moved

And I'm in Chile

I also saw it

438 days

Adventure documentary

The author of this book

Longyintai

Come to our house for tea

Then we went to see the kangaroos together

We also ate together

I think it is

Suffering is

It was uncomfortable at that time

But in fact

Just like us

Right

It can be grown through stool

Fragrant flowers

Suffering can also become meaningful

It can also be turned into wealth

You really are one

extraordinary

He is a very positive person

In the words of the Communist Party

Right

Then we

Please every guest

Three books are recommended

Or film and television works

What do you recommend?

It's hard to choose

There are only three copies

Three copies of the match

It's tacky

Probably everyone has seen it

It is a brief history of mankind

Guns and guns are bacterial and

country

and steel

Because it all belongs

Let your thought system have

compare

It is the kind of book that is relatively inspired

And also

It is

I especially like to read an English novel

I don't know if it has been translated into Chinese

It's called All the Stars We Cannot See

It seems to have been made into a movie

This is

The writing is beautiful

And although it is

The background is that there was a lot of suffering in World War II

But inside

The good and evil of people

described

It was very good for me at that time

I was particularly moved

Right

You loved to sing in prison at that time

What is that song called?

is one

A religious song

Right

Amazing Grace

Because

It's ironic

The person who wrote it was still at that time

There used to be black slaves

But

This song

Whether it's lyrics or songs

Give it to everyone

How many generations have brought comfort

I remember later

I had a new roommate when I was leaving

Then she arrived on the first day

is also in a very confused state

We are generally there

After lunch

Just pretend to take a walk there

It's actually singing

And then they can't look at each other

It can only be sneaky

Then pay attention at all times

The glass above

That one

There is not a passage where someone is watching us

See if there is a figure

Then we hummed it over again

She burst into tears

Would you like to sing us a little?

Compared to Chinese

Average level of karaoke

Mine is failing

But I will

Sing it casually

In fact, at that time

I especially like to sing

There is a song

It's calledI Want to Know What Love Is

And then it will

It's really just looking

The direction of the sky

That's right

On Chinese New Year's Eve

With a few friends in a Melbourne

Hunan restaurant

dine

Later, the proprietress was very nice

But they were playing cards there

We were drinking over there

Then I did

While crying and singing some

I used to be with my roommates at that time

sang

I hope we can still be there

As we talked about

2032 at the Brisbane Olympics

Being able to come to a class reunion

Reunion

I hope this show will come out

Anyone who knows about them

Contact me

Good

They can also be there

Find you on Instagram

It's called Cheng Lei

That's right

You can send you a private message

When there is a way

Just send you a private message

Tell me how they are doing now

Good

Thank you, Chenglei

See you next time