Ethereum Is Winning—So Why Is ETH Still Undervalued?

there, is, so, much, to, do, between, what ethereum, is, right, now, and, on, boarding the, world, you, know, this, thing, should, not be, like, relegated, to, a, toy, in, in, the

sidelines, that, we, hope, just, has, like some, magic, mimetic, premium, that's, okay like, there, is, a, certain, like, mematic premium, that, people, will, apply, to, these systems, but, I, think, it, will, be, far

greater, if, it's, the, backbone, of, like civilizational, infrastructure, the, the Mandate, is, is, to, build, things, Mand, is also, to, make, sure, that, at, this, like critical, point, of, the, adoption, curve

that, people, are, actually, choosing ethereum, ethereum, in, my, perspective, is like, the, only, reasonable, answer, but there's, no, one, frequently, in, the, room, to convince, them, of, that, and, a, lot, of, these

institutions, and, a, lot, of, these, like government, players, like, they, just, expect to, have, someone, to, talk, to, you, know, so one, of, the, things, that, e, theal, can provide, is, like, we, can, be, that, you, know who, who, do, we, talk, to, let's, talk, to, the

the, realized welcome, to, the, edge, podcast, I'm, defi, Dad here, with, nomadic, from, 4rc, today's, show features, the, co-founders, of, ethereal eyes, the, ran, and, Danny, Ryan, who, are, on, a

mission, to, bridge, the, gap, between ethereum, the, network, and, eth, the, asset in, this, episode, we, break, down, why, eth has, struggled, in, sentiment, despite ethereum's, dominance, in, Defi

tokenization, and, institutional, adoption we'll, discuss, how, etherealized, is bringing, ethereum, to, Wall, Street, in Washington, DC, tackling, key, question questions, around, value, acral, and, why, e

is, deeply, undervalued, given, its technological, role, in, advancing, Global Finance, but, before, we, do, just, a, quick word, from, our, sponsors, who, make, the, edge podcast, possible, hey, folks, I, wanted, to

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Danny, Ryan, guys, welcome, to, the, edge podcast, how, are, you, doing, great, yeah thanks, for, having, me, having, us, congrats on, the, recent, announcement, of, launching etherealized, um, for, folks, that, uh

haven't, heard, of, etherealized, we're going, to, talk, about, it, today, as, uh, a, BD arm, a, marketing, arm, to, the, ethereum, ecos system, um, I've, always, viewed, the

ethereum, foundation, as, aiming, to, be extremely, neutral, in, growing, ethereum, in being, this, like, supportive, arm, for

developers, but, there's, been, uh, clearly, a uh, a, desire, for, more, intentional marketing, for, more, intentional, BD, and that, goes, beyond, the, scope, of, EF, as, as

I've, always, known, it, and, so, this, is, the gap, that, I'm, hoping, you, guys, are, going to, fill, in, it, it's, Crystal, Clear, in, your mission, that, that's, the, goal, and, we, just want, to, help, to, crystallize, how, that, is

going, to, take, place, like, how, will, you measure, your, success, um, how, will, we, know that, you've, been, successful, in, this Mission, and, uh, what, can, we, expect, out, of

the, result, of, your, uh, working, on, all, of this, so, why, don't, we, start, with, more, of the, origin, story, for, folks, that, are, you know, not, aware, of, the, background, of, how

EF, has, operated, and, this, the, sort, of, Gap that, I'm, referring, to, with, what, ethereal Li, is, filling, and, what, can, you, tell, us about, the, origin, of, ethereal, Li, origin

of, ethereal, from, my, standpoint, it actually, didn't, start, as, a, crypto, first uh, initiative, it, started, with, a, let's bring, institutions, into, this, blockchain

ecosystem, initiative, and, this, is, because I, am, not, a, crypto, native, um, I, haven't been, in, ethereum, space, that, long, uh, I spent, 10, years, on, Wall, Street, from, 2010

to, 20, and, I, was, at, four, different, banks Mor, UBS, DOA, Bank, Nira, and, I, traded, very esoteric, archaic, institutional, products

in, the, credit, space, and, these, are, the backbone, for, how, the, US, economy, works but, the trading, process, honestly, had, not, evolved

from, what, you, see, in, The, Wolf, of, Wall Street, movies, um, everything, is, done, by phone, everything, is, so, technologically behind, even, though, the, most sophisticated, Financial, products, trade

on, Wall, Street, so, my, vantage, point, for for, Wall, Street, was, saying, that, this, is the, most, incredible, backbone, for, the economy, but, it's, it's, technologically Antiquated, after, 10, years, I, honestly

just, got, a, little, bit, bored, um, I, left and, then, I, moved, to, Austin, and, then that's, when, I, very, serendipitously plugged, into, the, eth, ecosystem, um, a, few of, the, security, re

researchers, uh, working, on, the, merge ironically, under, Danny, uh, were, living, in Austin, at, that, time, I, met, them, also Serendip, at, the, gym, um, at, equinox, and, we

immediately, clicked, because, I'm, very Technologic, technology, curious, but, I'm very, application, focused, and, these, guys were, the, smartest, people, I've, ever, met in, my, entire, life, working, on, the, most

ambitious, product, I've, ever, seen, and, so I, learned, about, ethereum, not, as, a, token per, se, or, as, as, a, crypto, thing, but, as, to me, the, use, case, was, this, is, the, answer

to, how, we, upgrade, the, Wall, Street, system and, so, that, became, my, mission, statement um, e, can, be, I, mean, a, lot, of, things, but to, me, improving, the, financial, system, and upgrading, it, and, having, its, internet

moment, was, the, the, the, calling, for, me, um that's, something, I've, been, working, on for, four, years, very, informally, I've, been trying, to, do, business, development, and marketing, for, the, ethereum, ecosystem, for four, years, so, ethereal, Liv, wasn't, just

like, started, on, a, whim, it, was, more, that I, likeed, to, be, demand, driven, and, for, the last, for, the, first, four, years, from, 2019 to, 2023, early

2024, there, was, no, appetite, for institutional, adoption, you, you'd, go, into meetings, and, people, would, say, great blockchain, we, don't, want, to, talk, to, you or, great, ethereum, like, we, understand, it we've, all, had, internal, blockchain

testing, environments, for, the, last, 10 years, but, we, can't, use, this, for regulatory, reasons, when, that, finally started, to, change, in, 2024, and, then, you saw, that, despite, regulatory, uncertainty

Black, Rock, La, launched, their, Biddle money, market, fund, that's, product, Market fit, you, saw, the, E, ETFs, get, approved that's, product, Market, fit, so, the institutionalization, of, ethereum, and, the

acceptance, was, was, starting, and, to, me that, was, that, was, the, cue, to, say, okay let's, actually, formalize, this, business development, marketing, initiative, and, and see, if, we, can, get, some, legitimacy, and

backing, from, the, EF, itself, and, and, go start, doing, formalized, business development, for, uh, for, ethereum, and, that was, the, Genesis, for, etherealized, for, me personally, so, many, different, ways, to, go

here, but, I, want, to, just, introduce, Danny as, well, uh, for, for, those, that, maybe don't, know, you, Danny, uh, yeah, just, give us, kind, of, your, background, and, how you've, become, to, be, involved, in, ethereal

as, as, well right, um, got, obsessed, with, ethereum, in 2017, um, no, 2016, oh, my, God, it's, been, a

long, time, um, ended, up, doing, a, bunch, of random, things, until, I, found, my, way, into the, ethereum, foundation, research, team right, at, the, beginning, of, 2018, um, took

on, proof, of, stake, was, imminent, at, the time, uh, Casper, is, coming, I, think, was, a big, tweet, right, on, in, right, about, that time, and, I, I, saw, there, was, just, a, gap

between, where, it, was, and, where, it, needed to, be, so, I, started, just, organizing, the effort, a, bit, more, um, ended, up, being, one of, the, people, to, lead, um, the, launch, of

the, beacon, chain, and, then, the, merge, uh both, from, like, a, research, vesication, and largely, like, Community, coordination standpoint, um, and, it, was, involved, in, in

Open, Standards, and, and, things, for, uh ethereum, for, for, quite, a, long, time, last year, I, left, came, up, for, air, I, left, the EF, came, up, for, air, and, and, finally, kind

of, took, a, took, a, step, back, and, and, got to, observe, things, from, as, an outsider, um, ended, up almost, was, in, conversations, with, the, EF

about, going, back, and, maybe, doing, some some, stuff, uh, at, at, a, leadership, level over, there, we, we, mutually, closed, the door, in, January, of, this, year, after, just seeing, like, the, things, that, I, was

interested, in, doing, and, the, gaps, that, I wanted, to, fill, just, were, not, what, the, EF you, know, uses, as, its, role, um, got

introduced, to, back, and, realized, that, eiz is, kind, of, primed, to, fill, a, space, that, I I, think, is, was, very, very, important, um

and, going, on, board, I, think, we, can, plant a, flag, and, do, so, so, much, more, right, like the, the, initial, Target, here, is, um

onboard, Institution, to, to, ethereum, um that, then, seeps, into, make, sure, that there's, a, voice, in, the, room, in, in Washington, and, other, governments, so, that you, know, the, right, things, are, happening

and, ethereum, you, know, can, be, legal, and utilized, in, these, environments, um, and then, beyond, that, the, vision, I, think, is really, real, world, real, world, ethereum you, know, what, are, the, things, that, we

have, to, do, Beyond, even, just, institutions to, on, board, the, world, to, ethereum, and and, that, mission, is, one, that, we're, going to, kind, grow, into, over, time, after, we, hit these, initial, targets, but, uh, there's, a

huge, gap, between, ethereum, as, it, is, today and, meeting, the, world, as, it, is, and, and what, it, needs, um, and, my, intention, is, to make, etherealized, you, know, something, of

an, ethereum, institution, that's, that's really, feeling, that, that, void, in, many different, domains, what's, really interesting, is, uh, I, personally, wanted, to see, you, yeah, fill, this, sort, of, role

inside, of, e, and, I, was, delighted, to, see that, there, was, basically, the, idea, to create, a, new, institution, you, know, for the, ethereum, community, that, can, focus, on

this, I, I, think, um, anyone, who's, been around, knows, that, EF, has, been, world class, as, like, a, research, in, institution and, the, last, thing, we, want, to, do, is

disrupt, that, so, I, I, commend, the, fact that, you, guys, and, others, clearly recognized, this, um, I, want, to, get, more into, some, of, the, goals, you, mentioned, and

uh, maybe, in, like, just, elaborating, more on, these, goals, as, etherealized, um, also it's, important, to, talk, about, like, who are, the, the, clients, or, like, the, the

targets, that, you're, going, after, I, know one, of, them, that, was, mentioned, is Washington, DC, having, some, bit, of influence, there, on, you, know, the, the

folks, that, are, regulators, and politicians, um, to, act, in, favor, of, the ethereum, community, um, but, what, else, can you, tell, us, like, I, I, hear, a, lot, about

Wall, Street, like, are, you, talking, to, like cios, of, like, Pension, funds, I, I, have, no idea, it's, super, interesting, to, see, how

the, mission, has, organically, evolved, from when, we, first, got, the, initial, signaling Grant, from, balic, and, the, EF, we, were going, to, do, business, development, and marketing, two, institutions, and, so, what

does, that, mean, it, means, go, evangelize eth, as, a, real, institutional, asset, go, to the, ETF, issuers, and, provide, narratives for, why, e, belongs, in, a, portfolio complimentary, to, bitcoin, and, they're

both, unique, stores, of, store, value, assets um, go, educate, them, about, the, ethereum ecosystem, about, how, layer, 2s, work, how the, ethereum, economy, Works, um, that, was

the, narrow, scope, to, start, after, two, to three, months, of, those, meetings, with, I mean, I, have, a, pretty, good, Wall, Street Network, and, so, that's, that's, that's, what I've, been, tapping, into, to, and, Wall

Street, is, not, crypto, curious, so, they open, the, door, to, to, learn, more, which, is the, best, tail, one, you, can, ask, for, but after, 2, to, 3, months, I, quickly, realized

that, there, is, more, to, ethereum, than, just chilling, um, we're, we're, we're unbelievable, economy, and, ecosystem, and so, there, is, actual, real, world application, use, cases, and, the

institutions, demanded, those, a, lot, of Institutions, said, hey, we, have, our, own internal, evm, blockchains, we've, been running, we, have, our, own, ethereum, clones we've, been, running, we've, tried tokenization, Pilots, it's, just, we, haven't

hit, the, public, blockchain, moment, yet, to flip, them, all, the, public, internet, um, and that, moment's, coming, so, we, then, expanded scope, a, little, bit, to, say, we, will, help build, products, for, institutions, because

what's, better, than, just, telling, someone about, ethereum, it's, showing, them, how they, can, use, ethereum, helping, them actually, onboard, and, use, ethereum, so, the Mandate, expanded, from, just, business development, marketing, which, is, important

and, will, go, on, forever, to, um, helping onboard, institutions, via, creating products, helping, them, tokenize, assets, um guiding, them, towards, layer, twos, um helping, them, construct, things, and, build

things, because, that's, the, utility, of ethereum once, we, hit, that, critical, mask, the demand, kept, increasing, and, then, we launched, and, then, I'll, transition because, Danny, came, on, board, and, now, it's

organically, growing, even, more, to, an, even more, exciting, but, very, complimentary Vision, I, think, yeah, I, mean, when, you, go and, and, talk, to, these, guys, it's, like yeah, yeah, yeah, we, get, it, but, like, we need, we, need, help, and, so, it, becomes, very

quickly, like, just, showing, up, and, talking is, like, not, going, to, satisfy, everything you, know, in, terms, of, actually, onboarding these, institutions, like, there, is education, there, is, General, you, know knowledge, that, needs, to, be, transferred

there, is, you, know, understanding, this like, complex, landscape, of, l2s, but there's, also, like, we, have, particular business, needs, and, we, see, this, as, the future, of, them, but, we, have, to, like, build

things, to, make, this, happen, and, so there's, certainly, things, to, do, there there's, also, like, very, broadly, um, you know, the, the, Mandate, is, is, to, build

things, Mand, is, also, to, make, sure, that, at this, like, critical, point, of, the, adoption curve, that, people, are, actually, choosing ethereum, ethereum, in, my, perspective, is

like, the, only, reasonable, answer, but there's, no, one, frequently, in, the, room, to convince, them, of, that, and, a, lot, of, these institutions, and, a, lot, of, these, like government, players, like, they, just, expect to, have, someone, to, talk, to, you, know, so

one, of, the, things, that, etherealized, can provide, is, like, we, can, be, that, you, know who, who, do, we, talk, to, let's, talk, to, with theorized, um, because, quite, frankly, in other, competing, blockchain, environments there, is, someone, you, know, there's

someone, banging, on, their, door, saying, we can, do, this, for, you, we, can, make, sure, you know, you, choose, this, um, you, know, it's it's, like, Solana, P, quite, frankly

pitching, and, then, who, else, right, and like, we, we, we, intend, to, and, and, are filling, that, that, Gap, beyond, that, Ian

the, conversation, like, I, said, quickly like, it's, hard, to, especially, with, large institutions, in, the, US, be, engaged, with them, and, not, to, be, queued, into, like, the

rapidly, developing, conversation, in Washington, because, these, things, are, just there, there, there's, T, tons, of, interplay and, know, there, are, certain, asset, classes that, are, less, regulated, and, might, have

more, immediate, opportunity, but, to, on board, you, know, what, what, was, uh, you, know the, financial, institutions, in, the, US, is going, to, require, you, know, very, careful care, between, the, interplay, between, what

they're, actually, doing, and, what, happens in, Washington, beyond, that, like, there, are just, ways, that, things, can, go, south, in, us and, broader, Global, regulation, both, in

terms, of, just, like, passing, up, maybe, too wide, of, a, net, is, cast, and, the, meaning, of decentralization, and, choice, you, know becomes, it's, like, things, that, you, might not, say, are, decentralized, and, uh, and

maybe, aren't, secure, or, the, same, kind, of legal, uh, footing, as, as, ethereum, also there's, certain, things, in, terms, of

innovation, um that, to, regulation, that, might, even, look good, because, maybe, it, promotes, like current, stable, coins, as, they, are, today might, actually, stifle, innovation, in, the

future, and, kind, of, just, entrench, the current, rather, than, allowing, for, you know, what, I, expect, to, be, very, Innovative space, for, many, years, to, come, um, so, just

having, a, very like, grounded, and, ethereum, first, voice in, that, conversation, is, is, important, for the, etherum, ecosystem, and, important, for

you, know, our, initial, Targets, in, in, uh, us institutions, um, beyond, that, as, thec, was saying, like

there, is, so, much, to, do, between, what ethereum, is, right, now, and, on, boarding the, world, right, and, and, some, of, that stuff, uh, and, so, like, we, as, as etherealized, intend, to, help, span, that

Gap, there, are, many, players, in, there, but some, of, that, looks, like, you, know evangelization, and, advocacy, and, stuff, as we, talking, about, but, some, of, that, also probably, begins, to, look, like, some, some

R&D, type, efforts, right, like, an, obvious thing, that, we're, going, to, run, into, if, we actually, begin, to, on, board, the, world, is Skip, you, know, and, there, are, many, cooks in, the, kitchen, but, there's, also, that's

also, you, know, if, we're, going, to, drisk things, for, etherealized, and, and, ensure that, ethereum, can, be, kind, of, Meet, the the, real, world, um, there, are, things, to, do to, potentially, help, in, in, the, scale

narrative, another, thing, that's, like, very I, think, we're, going, to, run, into immediately, is, that, institutions, and then, beyond, that, customers, that, just like, consumers, that, just, like, don't, have

a, vested, interest, to, use, blockchains they're, going, to, look, at, the, existing privacy, models, and, go, what, everything, is in, the, clear, like, this, doesn't, make, you it, just, like, I, I, know, how, to, kind, of

work, around, it, I, also, know, I, also, often have, like, significant, interest, in, using these, technologies, that, go, beyond, just like, the, fact, that, I, want, to, pay, you know, my, uncle, for, a, pizza, that, we, split

or, something, um, but, I, really, do, think that, another, of, the, targets, of etherealized, and, kind, of, helping, span that, Gap, is, is, privacy, and, privacy, being

you, know, normal, easy, and, and, quite frankly, legal, and, and, that, I, think, is going, to, come, uh, with, the, utilization, uh and, and, and, bringing, up, of, some, of, these

kind, of, ZK, tools, and, things, that, are right, on, the, cus, of, being, you, know, in prime, time, for, example, like, the, the, Noir compiler, also, is, going, to, be, how, do

wallets, and, other, standards, and, stuff kind, of, encapsulate, this, for, the, user how, do, applications, integrate, these things, how, do, we, handle, secrets, and, and all, sorts, of, stuff, and, then, probably, an

increasingly, ZK, landscape, um, again, a, lot of, cooks, in, the, kitchen, but, as etherealized, we, plan, to, be, on, like, the Forefront, of, adoption, especially, with these, institutions, and, and, better

understand, like, what, are, the, things blocking, them, um, not, just, in, terms, of the, products, and, education, and, things that, they, immediately, need, but, more broadly, like, what, are, the, gaps, in

ethereum, at, its, core, that, prevent, them from, from, onboarding, and, so, we, do, kind to, like, get, that, feedback, loop, going, to help, inform, R&D, at, the, potentially, the L1, potentially, L2, and, the, application

layer, to, help, build, that, void, so, many insights, in, there, from, both, of, you, I think, I'm, immediately, realizing, that ethereal, etherealized, is, is, way, bigger scope, than, I, think, I, was, coming, into

this, conversation, with, like, you, know, I think, I, came, in, like, oh, yeah, BD marketing, but, I, had, no, idea, that, you guys, were, kind, of, getting, down, to, like the, application, Level, to, help, pull, these people, in, and, you, know, also, to, your

point, about, just, having, a, voice, in, the room, I, forget, that, that's, how, these people, operate, right, like, institutions like, all, these, guys, they're, they're, used to, talking, to, a, guy, or, talking, to

somebody, um, and, that, is, that, has, such, a pull, on, decision, making, I, would, imagine right, like, just, having, that, ability, to you, know, in, some, cases, coax, or, sway, um

some, of, these, people, into, making, their decision, so, yeah, just, now, having, that voice, in, the, room, is, is, huge, but, but again, I, didn't, realize, that, there's, kind of, deeper, layers, to, the, onion, here, to peel, back, with, what, ethereal, is, actually

doing, so, that, that's, really, cool, to, find out, even, the, Privacy, stuff, but, I, just want, to, get, back, quickly, to, something Vex, said, right, in, the, beginning, uh, or kind, of, in, your, part, there, you, mentioned

the, funding, from, vitalic, you, I, think, you you, used, it, was, like, some, like, signal Grand, funding, I, don't, know, what, you, can tell, us, about, that, but, that's, been, a major, curiosity, of, me, from, the, outside

looking, in, like, okay, how, did, this, happen like, and, who, who, gave, it, the okay, what, can, you, just, unpack, about, that how, how, that, took, place, it's, actually

really, convo, because, Daniel, have, a, a interesting, perspective, from, being, at, EF for, a, while, but, I've, always, been, pretty purely, motivated, and, always, will, be, that I, think, ethereum, is, the, base, layer, the

whole, world, should, use, I, think, the, whole financial, sector, if, we, want, a, secure safe, blockchain, that's, Global, and decentralization, matters, it's, etherium and, I've, wanted, to, amplify, that, to

institutions, forever, and, the, only, reason I, I, didn't, formally, do, it, with, ethereal years, ago, is, because, of, regulatory overhang, as, that, went, away, um, um, the, one thing, institutions, want, to, see, is, is

legitimacy, and, they, want, to, see, backing like, they, all, want, to, talk, to, the, people that, are, that, are, highest, up, in, ethereum um, that's, not, Metal's, job, that's, not, the

ef's, job, but, when, we, went, with, the proposal, to, do, some, institutional, BD marketing, to, the, EF, I, think, it's, the first, time, but, they, they, said, you, know

what, we'll, give, you, a, small, you, we'll let, we'll, let, you, guys, use, our, name, and we'll, give, you, a, small, Grant, to, back this, and, let's, see, what, you, can, do, with it, and, I'm, the, part, I'm, pretty, proud

about, is, is, it, wasn't, a, very, big, Grant but, the, thing, is, it, did, open, a, lot, of doors, and, saying, that, hey, we, have, uh implicit, support, from, vitalic, himself, in the, EF, institutions, clearly, cared, and

not, only, that, but, we, got, we, got, a, lot, of traction, with, very, very, little, so, um that's, really, really, important, because it, gave, me, conviction, that, this, is, the time, to, formalize, this, and

institutionalize, it, and, actually, try, and grow, it, and, and, after, several, months when, we, finally, launched, we, knew, that there, was, a, a, a, community, desire, to actually, build, this, so, now, we'll, scale

it, but, uh, it, was, it, was, pretty, cool, to see, how, much, traction, we, could, get, with both, media, with, institutional, Outreach with, just, getting, the, narrative, out there, um, yeah, just, from, from, the, EF, and

the, tal, back, in, this, so, I've, been, at, the EF, for, a, long, I've, been, at, the, EF, for, a long, time, um, this, is, certainly, very uncharacteristic, to, um, tell, somebody

yeah, go, go, knock, on, you, know, business's door, and, and, evangelize, ethereum um, it's, certainly, not, something, the, EF would, do, and, probably, will, do, um, and

it's, it's, not, something, they, previously kind, of, given, signal, to, others, to, do, yet they, still, kind, of, hoped, that, this, would happen, it's, certainly, important, you, know there's, there's, a, bit, too, much, of, the, if

you, build, it, they, will, come, certainly like, if, you, build, it, it, became, like super, important, and, valuable, and, there's a, massive, amount, of, like, usage, and interesting, things, that, happen, on ethereum, without, a, concerted, BDF

but, at, a, certain, point, um, the, world, has changed, like, the, there, are, sharks, at every, layer, of, this, there's, Fierce competition, you, know, adoption, there's, a

lot, of, vested, interests, that, uh, to, skew reality, and, information, and, and, someone someone, does, have, to, do, it, so, one, of, the things, that, I, I, realized, in, my, time, and something, I've, been, chewing, on, for, a

long, time, but, um, realizing, my, time, away from, the, EF, is, um, the, EF, exists, and because, the, EF, exists, there's, this massive, like, ring, of, expectation, you

know, of, what, the, EF, the, ethereum foundation, this, like, Central, institution um, what, they're, going, to, do, and, Achieve but, what, actually, the, EF, does, is, a, much

narrow, sub, narrow, subset, of, the expectation, so, there, ends, up, being, this like, chilling, effect, in, this, outer, ring where, people, expect, it, to, be, done because, the, ethereum, foundation, exists

uh, but, but, really, there, ends, up, being, a vacuum, and, I, think, that, vacuum, in, some ways, for, many, years, did, serve, us, and serve, the, ethic, system, many, many, people

stepped, into, that, vacuum, but, given, how the, world, has, radically, changed, in, terms of, blockchain, potential, for, adoption competition, Etc, I, think, that, vacuum's, no

longer, serving, us, and, so, I, think, one, of the, things, that, the, EF, realized, is, that if, they're, not, going, to, enter, that vacuum, that, others, need, to, right, and, and one, of, the, one, of, the, things, with, that

signal, is, like, okay, you, can, be, one, of those, you, you, know, will, say, go, for, it right, and, I, think, there's, going, to, be many, other, type, grants, and, signals, in

various, vacuums, that, help, Elevate, other players, um, so, that, the, vacuum, is, is filled, um, and, this, is, this, is, something you, know, it's, it's, very, critical, for, the

adoption, of, ethereum, I, think, it's, also like, there's, tons, and, tons, of opportunity, in, that, otherwise, like vacuous, space, um, and, so, you, know, not just, etherealized, but, I, think, there, will

be, other, other, players, that, enter, into um, this, this, space, and one, one, thing, to, kind, of, counter, is, like in, in, Bitcoin, there's

no, there's, no, like, Central, there's, no Foundation, actually, someone, I, said, this the, other, day, I, was, like, there, is actually, a, Bitcoin, Foundation, but, it's not, relevant, right, it's, not, like, the Bitcoin, it's, probably, a, Bitcoin foundation, and, so, people, just, kind, of, do

stuff, right, and, then, you, go, on, the, other end, of, the, spectrum, you, have, something like, salana, and, you, do, have, this, lot, of aition, you, have, this, like, Central, entity and, you, have, this, like, Central, corporate interest, and, like, so, people, don't, have

to, do, stuff, this, thing, does, set, ethereum is, like, this, weird, space, in, the, Middle where, there, is, there, is, the, ethereum foundation, there, is, this, entity, that does, uh, do, a, lot, of, really, good, things for, the, ecosystem, but, because, of, that

again, it, it, leaves, a, chilling, effect, on a, ring, of, activities, that, they, don't actually, do, and, so, I, think, a, critical part, of, what, ethereal, is, doing, and, what I, think, the, ethereum, community, needs, to

do, in, this, year, and, Beyond, is, to, be, more clear, about, what, the, EF, does, and, what the, EF, doesn't, do and, to, step, up, and, and, fill, those

voids, this, episode, is, brought, to, you, by mantle, the, ultimate, ethereum, L2, for Builders, with, over, $2.16, billion, in, tvl mantle, power's, multi-billion, doll, yield

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to, mantle, for, supporting, us, at, the, edge podcast, and, Edge newsletter, the, vacuum, you're, referring to, Danny, so, this, is, a, story, that, I've

told, others, and, and, I, guess, I've, never known, for, sure, I've, I've, assumed, this, is the, reality, of, eia, that, you, had, to, be

intentional, you, had, to, be, strategic, to not, go, out, as, this, like, be, marketing, arm because, there, was, the, era, of, Gary gendler, bearing, down, on, ethereum, and, all

of, crypto, and, there, was, this, this, threat that, like, we, would, be, deemed, a, security eth, and, and, really, every, other, there, it was, basically, every, crypto, asset, with the, exception, of, Bitcoin, Bitcoin, seemed

to, get, a, pass, early, on, and, then, eth, kind of, got, a, pass, but, was, always, under, like scrutiny, and, and, so, I, viewed, that, as it's, not, even, a, decision, it's, it's, a

it's, it's, a, forced, uh, it's, a, forced decision, we, cannot, market, and, push, for ethereum, or, else, we, risk, being, wrongly

deemed, a, security, so, anyways, am, I misframing, any, of, that, is, that, is, that how, history, has, has, actually, happened there's, something, at, a, deeper, layer right, like, the, fact, that, the, SEC, would

have, a, better, case, at, calling, something a, security, is, is, implicit, of, of, the, the deeper, strategy, there, and, you, know, the reason, that, the, SD, might, be, able, to, make some, sort, of, claim, like, that, in, the

previous, environment, would, be, like, oh because, they, own, it, because, they're, in control, and, so, sure, one, of, the, reasons that, you, don't, want, to, be, in, control, is is, regulatory, you, know, potentially

implications, are, regulatory, but, also, you don't, want, to, be, you, don't, want, to, have a, central, entity, in, fully, in, control, of a, blockchain, because, of, you, know, the point, of, the, thing, so, because, it, is decentralized, because, it, should, be

decentralized, because, it, should, be governed, and, controlled, by, a, broader, set because, there, are, if, there, is, a, central entity, that, controls, it, that's, a, central entity, to, attack, that's, a, central, entity

to, capture, right, like, okay, if, the, EF actually, decides, everything, it, goes, into hard, Fork, then, try, to, figure, out, how, to how, to, subvert, the, top, you, know, who, do you, bribe, right, um, that, kind, of, stuff

and, so, uh, additionally, one, of, the, main the, big, goals, of, the, EF, over, the, past decade, is, to, ensure, that, there's, a resilient, ethereum, to, ensure, that, like

there, are, is, a, multitude, of, voices, and perspectives, from jurisdictions, all, over, the, world, that are, building, this, thing, ensuring, that, it works, you, know, this, you, see, this, in

multic, client, you, see, this, in, the, fact that, um, you, know, the, way, the, application layer, is, kind, of, played, out, and, the, EF not, playing, favorites, there, and, and others, not, playing, favorites, there, um

and, essentially, one, of, the, main, goals there, was, like, leave, a, vacuum, and, you will, end, up, with, a, more, resilient ecosystem, now, we're, at, a, phase

where, um, that, vacuum, you, know potentially, is, not, serving, us, as, much because, we, do, have, a, resilient ethereum, but, blockchain, is, much, bigger

than, ethereum, you, know, there, are, sharks like, I, said, at, every, layer, um, and, the the, path, dependency, of, ethereum, being adopted, a, global, scale, or, not, like, is, is

it's, right, in, front, of, us, and, you, know we, need, to, have, critical, kind, of, winds on, on, that, adoption, curve, to, ensure, that ethereum, which, is, our, best, bet, at, a decentralized, technology, and decentralized, backbone, is, actually

adopted, I, want, to, go, into, some, more things, but, but, first, I, just, want, to, get an, idea, of, like, the, size, of, the etherealized, team, like, maybe, like, what is, it, now, how, many, team, members, and, like

how, how, big, of, a, headcount, do, you, think you're, going, to, need, to, I, guess, fulfill your, fulfill, your, mission, and, then, kind of, throw, in, multiple, questions, in, here now, but, like, what, does, just, your day-to-day, look, like, right, now, uh

between, you, guys, like, you, get, up, and, and and, then, what, happens, with, ethereals amazing, fire, drill, every, single, day which, is, exactly, what, you, want, to, hear

from, a, startup, standpoint, and, a, demand standpoint, but, going, back, to, it, uh, I mean, it, started, off, very, very, small honestly, we, we, all, like, d, like, the, ethos

of, having, small, very, effective, companies that's, probably, the, future, of, companies um, you, can, move, a, lot, faster, you, don't get, blocked, by, decisions, um, but, as, the Mandate, organically, expanded, we've

started, to, organically, expand, the, team last, week, we, announced, all, the, the, rest of, our, co-founders, many, of, which, have been, there, since, since, day, one, um, so there's, Danny, myself, uh, Zack, o', Brown

Grant, Hummer, as, as, the, four, co-founders and, again, as, we've, expanded, to, product side, Zack, ob', Brown, is, one, of, the, best in, the, world, that, as, we've, expand, it, to

be, more, of, an, ecosystem, player, no, one knows, ecosystem, better, than, Grant, Hummer Danny's, reputation, speaks, for, himself and, um, and, between, R&D, and, The, ethereum Institute, and, real, world, ethereum, and

policy, um, uh, there's, tremendous, value that, that, that, we'll, see, there, and, then um, I, get, to, focus, on, Wall, Street, and institutional, adoption, so, we, have, a, i, me

dream, founding, team, in, place, to, run, this we, want, our, team, to, be, a, mix, of, real world, people, and, ethereum, people, as these, two, worlds, merge, together, so, we have, some

unbelievable, uh, veterans, from, the, trafi space, that, are, all, and, everyone, is, very excited, for, blockchain, adoption, everyone wants, tokenization, everyone, knows, that

market, structures, change, um, every, 10, to 20, years, and, the, the, Shar, Pur, people, see that, this, is, a, Marcus, structure, change and, this, is, the, opportunity, so, those players, are, helping, us, um, expand, our

scope, and, reach, On, The, Wall, Street, side and, also, on, the, ethereum, side, we're building, a, really, really, deep, bench, uh the, most, amazing, part, is, like, the, the talent, inflow, that, wantes, to, come, help on, this, is, is, unbelievable, and, inspiring

but, um, yeah, the, core, team, we're, going, to keep, pretty, lean, so, so, we, can, just, move very, very, fast, and, and, deliver, okay, so, I I, think, we've, covered, nearly, everything

we, wanted, to, get, through, in, terms, of, uh just, what, is, etherealized, what, are, the day-to-day, operations, look, like, you, know what's, the, mission, here, I, actually really, want, to, spend, the, rest, of, this

interview, getting, your, guys, takes, on, you know, what's, wrong, with, eth, the, asset, if there's, something, wrong, although, I, think there's, clearly, something, wrong, if, if you, look, at, the, price, and, you, look, at

the, underperformance, over, the, past, year I, say, that, again, holding, a, very, healthy bag, of, eth, that, I, I, would, love, to, see catch, up, with, the, rest, of, the, market, um

and, I, feel, like, this, is, a, part, of, your guys, mission, is, coming, on, board, like, the market, has, signaled, that, there's, like, a disconnect, so, when, we, talk, about, this disconnect, between, ethereum, the, network

and, eth, the, asset, which, you, I, I, think called, it, out, in, a, recent, blog, post, for uh, bde, bull, yeah, that, was, it, and, uh, uh

yeah, you, mentioned, ethereum, and, eth, is currently, A, Tale, of, Two, Cities, can, you break, that, down, for, us, what, do, you, mean uh, when, you, say, that, I, think, e, the people, forget, that, eum, as, a, network, is

winning, um, ethereum, has, a, very, very healthy, Head, Start, and, precedent, of, of never, going, down, of, being, the, most secure, blockchain, of, actually, being

decentralized, where, as, much, as, now, the Paradigm, has, shifted, to, potentially allow, more, centralized, blockchains, to, to come, into, the, mix, um, I, think, at, the global, scale, and, the, institutional, scale

they, realized, that, if, you're, going, to have, real, high, value, assets, in, one, place um, that, has, to, be, on, the, most, here blockchain, and, that's, the, most, important thing, so, the, the, wins, for, ethereum, have

been, nothing, short, of, spectacular, um most, of, the, tokenization, of, really really, really, interesting, assets starting, with, stable, coins, then, money market, funds, then, private, credit, funds and, and, and, a, lot, of, things, in, between, a

lot, of, pilots, in, between, and, we'll, start it, on, ethereum, um, the, layer, 2, adoption if, if, you, had, told, me, two, years, ago, that

coinbase, and, Kraken, and, Sony, and, doche bank, and, UBS, would, be, building, layer twos, on, ethereum, on, the, scaling, road, map I'd, say, great, we're, we're, a, trillion dollar, asset, already, like, this, is, this

is, spectacular, so, the, the, the, wins, have been, nothing, short, of, spectacular, the asset hasn't, linked, to, that, adoption, curve, yet

but, I, obviously, think, it, will, and, what do, they, say, the, the, market, can, remain irrational, longer, you, can, remain, solvent um, there, there's, a, difference, in, my

perspective, on, like, the, fundamental value, of, something, and, the, price, of something, right, and, you, want, these things, to, converge, over, time, um, ethereum is, a, very, like, nent, technology, in, the

grand, scheme, of, things, um, the understanding, of, it, as, broad-based, and consumers, and, institutions, alike, is, is nent, like, it, is, a, complex, thing, and

quite, frankly, like, from, my, perspective how, do, you, value, these, things, um, we're still, as, as, you, know, as, as, humans, trying

to, figure, that, out, um, and, so, it's, not crazy, to, me, to, see, uh, disjoints, between what, I, think, is, the, fundamental, value

and, uh, the, asset, price, here, um, I also, I, think, it, was, I, think, it, was, docr was, was, tweeting, this, but

like, the, focus, on, you, know, deflationary which, kind, of, looks, like, revenues, and and, um, ultrasound, money, it, was, almost it's, like, too, much, instead, like, we

should, be, focusing, on, like, if, you, think about, a, typical, like, startup, or technology, it's, like, no, we, want, adoption we, want, growth, we, want, like, the, entire world, to, use, this, thing, and, then, like

the, value, cruel, mechanisms, can, kick, in like, right, now, sure, building, out, blobs changed, the, fundamental, like, pricing

demand, around, call, data, and, and, thus change, the, current, deflationary, versus inflationary, Paradigm, but, at, the, end, of the, day, like, we, need, on, board, the, world

you, know, this, thing, should, not, be, like relegated, to, a, toy, in, the, in, the sidelines, that, we, hope, just, has, like some, magic, mimetic, premium, that's, okay like, there, is, a, certain, like, mimetic

premium, that, people, will, apply, to, these systems, but, I, think, it, will, be, far greater, if, it's, the, backbone, of, like civilizational, infrastructure, yeah, I totally, agree, um, and, something, VC, was

saying, to, you, we're, talking, about, this adoption, and, one, of, the, biggest, signals that, I, saw, was, when, black, rocks, bidd tokenization, fund, kind, of, made, this

decision, to, come, to, ethereum, L1, and, to my, understanding, there, was, no, voice, in the, room, for, ethereum, at, that, point, in time, because, that, was, kind, of, pre etherealized, from, from, what, I, know, so, I

would, love, to, ask, you, guys, like, if, you if, you, know, like, what, was, their, decision criteria, why, did, they, choose, ethereum, I like, I, have, my, own, opinions, and, Views that, you, know, could, be, right, could, be

wrong, but, yeah, I, would, just, love, if, you have, any, insight, as, to, why, um, they, they chose, to, Theo, I, can, give, some, insight, on that, although, black, Rock's, exact, rubric

is, is, a, bit, of, a, blackbox, um but, I, think, that, in, that, regime, it, was the, Ganzo, regime, uh, despite, us, being, in

a, genza, regime, Black, Rock, was, one, of, the first, and, most, vocal, to, say, that tokenization, is, going, to, take, over, the world, lar, Larry, was, the, first, one, to, say we, should, tokenize, all, stocks, all, bonds

everything, should, live, on, a, block blockchain, and, he, saw, that, I, mean, he's one, of, those, TR, five, venders, that, he sees, the, future, and, how, assets, should trade, and, settle, and, and, he, called, that

out, so, when, it, came, to, how, do, we, pilot tokenization, um, in, under, Aza, regime there, are, only, two, blockchains, that, were that, had, made, the, cut, um, as, being

decentralized, Bitcoin, andne, Bitcoin can't, do, any, tokenization, so, that bitcoin's, digital, gold, so, it, makes, it, so the, default, institutional, blockchain that's, been, around, the, longest, at, the

safest, that's, never, gone, down, that, has been, effectively, deemed, decentralized, by um, the, SEC, under, the, previous, regime, and was, going, to, have, ETFs, approved, um, all

that, was, ethereum, so, it, blackout, coming in, and, drisking, that, for, the, rest, of, the ecosystem, was, a, massive, massive, point, of that, was, one, of, the, biggest, inflection points, for, me, personally, because, I, said

I, thought, that, even, with, without regulatory, support, if, the, largest institutions, in, the, world, are, saying that, it, is, now, time, to, start, tokenizing asset, it's, time, to, have, our, blockchain

moment, um, it, was, time, to, pay, attention so, that, was, a, shot, herur, on, the, world, uh but, I, think, that, they, picked, ethereum because, it, was, the, best, choice, and, I

think, it, Remains, the, best, choice, for high, value, secure, assets, yeah, I, mean even, even, in, a, post, Kinsler, regime, I think, that, a, lot, of, these, institutions

if, they, ask, themselves, where, would, I, put an, asset, where, what, programmable blockchain, would, I, put, an, asset, on, and feel, comfortable, not, looking, at, it, for 10, years, I, think, there's, only, one, answer

you, know, and, and, um, I, think, as, long, as we, can, make, sure, that, that, is, that, fact is, pretty, clear, in, these, environments then, there's, only, going, to, be, one, answer

so, what, you're, saying, makes, sense, to, me like, I, still, sleep, the, best, when, I, have value, deposited, on, ethereum, Main, net, but like, a, part, of, uh, ethereum's, road, map, a

part, of, what been, an, ex, an, exciting, component, to, its growth, over, the, last, few, years, is, l2s, I was, looking, up, just, like, numbers, for, uh

Bas, before, we, got, on, and, I, think, Bas from, around, January, 1st, 2024, Grew, From 400, million, of, deposits, uh, to, over, five

billion, by, the, end, of, 2024, and, then arbitrum, obviously, is, a, huge, component to, this, optimism, uh, mantle, ZK, sync there's, there's, quite, a, few, of, these, uh

one, of, the, talking, points, uh, that, you know, has, has, been, there, on, crypto Twitter, and, I've, always, wondered, like, is this, a, talking, point, on, Wall, Street, is

the, idea, that, uh, l2s, extract, too, much value, from, eth, or, I, I, think, what, the, way that, you, guys, have, framed, it, is, this

idea, that, uh, if, l2s, are, bringing, more value, you, know, to, their, L2, Network, and ultimately, it, settled, on, ethereum, like that, value, will, flow, back, to, eth, how, do

you, make, sense, of, this, this, is, something that, again, I, know, it, more, as, like, a talking, point, and, although, like, I've clearly, bought, into, the, idea, that

ethereum, is, not, just, ethereum, main, net but, the, the, extension, that, is, like, an arbitrum, and, and, Bas, and, so, forth, but

when, I, look, at, the, performance, of, eth, in 2024, there's, been, all, this, growth, like again, on, base, arbitral, other, l2s, and meanwhile, e, asset, if, you, measure, from

January, 1st, to, the, end, of, December, near the, end, of, it, it, is, up, over, time, but again, I'm, looking, at, it, according, to, its relative, performance, to, other, assets, and

and, again, maybe, the, way, I'm, measuring that, is, unfair, maybe, you, know, a, year, is too, short, of, a, time, frame, so, how, do, you make, sense, of, this, when, you, talk, to someone, on, Wall, Street, or, do, they, even

care, do, these, folks, not, give, a about, this, and, this, is, just, a, an argument, that, happens, between, like, Soul Maxis, and, eth, Maxis, and, Bitcoin, Maxis, I think, the, important, part, is, they're

learning, what, questions, to, ask, the really, really, really, important, part, is as, Danny, said, we, need, to, be, in, the rooms, talking, about, the, eth, road, map, and

why, it, is, the, most, scalable, most customizable, and, best, road, map, I, think that, we, can't, assume, anymore, that institutions, will, just, Auto, default, to eth, if, they, have, other, centralized, block

chain, is, knocking, on, their, door, um saying, that, eth, is, bad, and, our, road, map is, better, so, we, just, need, to, counter that, narrative, that, being, said, when, we

go, in, and, talk, about, different, ways, to deploy, and, blockchain, ecosystems, the, L2 model, is, I, mean, I, think, it's, brilliant like, as, a, like, Danny, has, has, the, most

technological, or, technical, um understanding, of, it, on, a, structural, and institutional standpoint, the, fact, that, people, think that, all, Global, assets, will, all, live, on

one, layer, all, all, Commerce, will, happen on, one, layer, is, just, kind, of, it's, kind of, mindboggling, to, me, um, institutions have, their, own, customizations, they, need they, have, their, own, privacy, needs, as, St said, that, they, need, they, have, their, own

security, assumptions, they, need so, they, also, need, to, make, money, which, is really, important, and, I, always, flip, the the, L2, argument, that, right, now, e

disrupted, itself, massively, with, 4844, so profit, margins, of, l2s, are, very, very, high and, an, e, doesn't, capture, as, much, yet, but that's, also, cuz, we're, subscale, I, think that, at, scale, that, that, does, start, to

resolve, itself, but, pitching, l2s, as, the way, for, institutions, to, have customizable, blockchain, ecosystems, where they, can, have, their, own, customer, base they, can, have, their, own, apps, and, it, can

still, plug, into, the, ethereum, network, um there's, really, no, no, better, pitch, and when, you, layer, in, the, cherry, on, top, that they're, going, to, make, more, money, doing that, it's, it's, that, is, the, the, model, for

ethereum, adoption, that, that, that, we, see and, yeah, I, think, the, monolithic blockchains, are, going, to, stand, a, chance over, the, long, run, but, we, have, to, be, in the, room, actually, like, educate, educating them, about, that, alternative, and, I

totally, totally, agree, with, you, man, like you, think, like, UBS, or, you, know, one, of the, Deutsche, Bank, is, going, to, come, and like, yeah, we're, just, going, to, share jamas, in, with, Salon, Jens, like, that, are

trapped, in, cages, like, you, know, like, of course, not, yeah, anyways, hey, folks, I, want to, tell, you, about, our, sponsor, gearbox the, protocol, that, reimagines, onchain

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a, bright, future, for, ethereum, learn, more at, puffery so, there's, another, criticism, that, you addressed, in, this, recent, blog, post, and

that, is, that, the, uh, architecture, of, l2s fragments, The, blockchain, Experience, now I'm, wondering, if, you, can, break, down, uh

why, that, is, not, the, case, or, I, I, guess like, why, is, that, misf, framed, I, can, speak to, it, as, a, user, I, have, always, called on, this, because, as, a, user, I

have, to, deposit, my, assets, into, a, network whether, it's, an, L1, or, an, L2, and, uh, when it, comes, to, you, know, major, exchanges like, coinbase, I'm, able, to, go, directly

from, the, exchange, to, an, L2, like, arbitrum or, base, and, so, the, starting, and, end point, are, exactly, the, same, at, the, end, of the, day, I, just, want, to, know, are, my

assets, secure, am, I, accessing, deep liquidity, is, there, a, plethora, of, defi that, I'm, able, to, access, the, argument that, I, have, to, know, how, to, navigate, to

one, of, many, different, networks, and, that if, I, can't, have, it, all, in, one, place, it's absolutely, useless, has, always, been it, is, this, false, talking, point

put, out, really, I'll, say, it's, been, put out, mostly, by, uh, the, salana, ecosystem, so anyways, any, thoughts, there, on, like, how

if, this, is, a, problem, first, and, how, do, we solve, for, it, if, if, it, is, in, fact, an, area that, needs, Improvement, I, mean, f, first and, foremost, like, anyone, that, actually understands, computer, science, and

engineering, and, and, these, systems, in general, knows, that, scaling, a, single blockchain, you, know, is, a, myth, like there's, only, so, far, that, can, go, before

you, just, recreated, you, know, a, Visa programmable, Visa, Network, and, it, does not, have, decentralization, does, not, have resiliency, it, does, not, have, guarantees

no, matter, what, jurisdiction, in, the, world you're, in, the, world, you, know, it, becomes just, um, and, it's, and, even, then, you, know it's, many, many, data, centers, and, and

Hyper, located, and, so, systems, just, don't scale, monolithically, like, we, see, that, in the, wild, anywhere, and, so, the, like, the modularity, of, the, ethereum, road, map, and

layer, 2, is, is, is, one, of, like, the, only ways, that, you, can, really, have, a, single place, of, kind, of, security, and decentralization, and, scalable

environments, from, there um, I do, you, know, in, in, this, world, where, these things, are, still, boot, trapping, you, know it, is, a, moderately, compelling, argument

to, the, people, that, don't, understand, like Oh, Come, here, everything's, in, one, place um, whereas, ethereum, inum, it, it, is, a, more confusing, thing, for, the, user, like, what am, I, doing, where, are, my, assets, what

should, I, and, there, there, are, a, handful of, ways, like, that, I, think, we're, going, to solve, this, one, is, potentially, additional L1, affordances, things, like, um, enshrined

rollups, that, kind, of, elevate, these, uh, ZK kind, of, evm, environments, to, be, much, more closely, linked, into, L1, in, terms, of, how they're, governed, upgrade, upgraded, and

how, they, even, communicate, with, each other, can, go, a, long, way, additionally, I think, that, one, of, the, places, that, we, can do, way, way, better, is, is, fixing, this, in

in, wallets, and, the, user, experience, like the, the, standard, user, shouldn't, usually have, to, think, about, like, where, they, are and, what, they're, doing, you, know, it's

like, I, want, to, trade, this, for, that, great you, know, I'm, done, like, and, the, the, tools and, affordances, underneath, the, Hood, um

in, terms, of, uh, this, L2, that, L2, cross communication, reconciliation, of, this over, here, that, you, know, a, lot, of, that should, just, be, masked, to, the, user, like

the, the, ux, just, can, be, a, lot, better, and how, we, think, about, and, design, wallets, I think, there's, a, lot, to, do, in, the, next couple, of, years, on, just, thinking, through

what, is, an, ethereum, wallet, in, this, multi kind, of, like, rollup, landscape, but, those are, the, two, main, things, the, two, main things, are, uh, we, we, can, have, some, more affordances, now, that, we're, all, in, on

rollups, at, the, L1, and, I, think, that, we, do have, a, lot, of, work, to, do, in, the, user experience, but, these, are, certainly solvable, guys, I, want, to, talk, a, bit, about the, eth, pitch, here, I, I, see, like, there

there's, there's, probably, different pitches, based, on, who, you're, talking, to of, course, like, um, if, if, you're, pitching maybe, like, say, a, black, rock, or, somebody like, them, on, a, tokenized, fund, well, the

pitch, is, more, about, like, why, choose, I guess, our, programmable, blockchain, over somebody, else's, but, if, you, maybe, you're talking, to, I, don't, know, a, pension, fund or, some, big, asset, allocator, that, wants

to, buy, the, ETF, then, maybe, you're, you're up, against, you, know, the, old, orange, coin BTC, digital, gold, that, easy, to, penetrate narrative, that's, just, so

simple, everybody, gets, it, almost, like right, away, so, maybe, kind, of, frame, up, the pitch, for, I, I, think, we, kind, of, talked, a bit, about, the, programmable, blockchain

pitch, and, like, why, why, eth, but, maybe it's, more, just, why, or, how, do, you, talk, to somebody, up, and, and, Pitch, them, eth, if they, have, little, to, no, understanding, but

they, totally, grock, like, BTC, in, this digital, digital, gold, narrative, so, I think, that, it's, actually, quite, comical that, it, comes, back, to, like, the, first, use

case, when, Bitcoin, ethereum, launched, in 2014, when, all, the, banks, said, they're more, interested, in, blockchain, versus Bitcoin, and, they, tried, to, separate, the asset, from, the, technology, it, just, really

funny, it, all, comes, full, circle, and, we're speedrunning, that, I, think, that e, greatest, strength, is, also, it's, it's its, current, curse, in, terms, of, price, and

understanding, is, it's, it's, complex, it can, do, a, lot, of, things, so, but, I, also think, the, pitch, is, way, easier, than people, say, I, think, it's, another, attack Vector, that, other, competing, blockchains

say, though, it's, too, complicated, I, just think, it's, very, very, simple, um, everyone knows, at, this, point, the, world's, going, to have, be, tokenized, that, all, assets, are

ultimately, going, to, be, tokenized, um, when you, go, pitch, where, is, the, most, secure safest, blockchain, that's, public, and Global, and, decentralized, that, has, never

had, downtime, where, you, can, have, security guarantees, the, the, answer, is, very obvious, obviously, ethereum, it, just, it's it's, a, it's, not, like, it's, not, like, there there's, a, huge, stretch, and, people, ask

about, other, performing, blockchains, you can, say, okay, well, um, l2s, are, also, High performing, blockchains, as, well, and, they live, on, top, of, eum, so, you, can, now, have, a faster, blockchain, that, plugs, into, the ethereum, network, and, you, can, go, down, a

bunch, of, different, rabbit, holes, and customize, the, convo, as, as, it, comes, up but, the, starting, point, is, assets, are going, to, be, tokenized, what's, the, safest blockchain, unit, it's, ethereum, when, you

go, to, eth, as, an, asset, I, think, that there's, too, many, narratives, that, um, that that, do, confuse, people, versus, Bitcoin just, having, digital, gold, so, that's, what I, I, personally, try, and, simplify, it, I

think, that, now, we've, coming, back, to blockchain, not, Bitcoin, when, people, think about, blockchain, technology, they, should think, about, eth, when, they, think, about tokenization, they, should, think, about, eth when, they, think, about, stable, coin, growth

they, should, think, about, eth, when, they think, about, customizable, institutional blockchains, um, that, also, flows, through, e so, it, just, comes, down, to, I, mean, I, love saying, the, whole, all, roads, flow, through

eth, narrative, because, ultimately, with the, mechanics, of, eth, as, an, asset, they actually, do, with, more, activity, more users, more, institutions, all, that, URS value, to, e, but, there's, a, lot, of

different, very, simple, narratives, to, for for, users, to, play, Upside um, yeah, that's, uh, I, think, it's, way easier, than, people, think, and, I, think that, we, have, over, complicated, and, over

engineered, it, too, much, but, we're, at, that moment, of, blockchain, adoption, and, the best, way, to, play, blockchain, adoption, is literally, eth, the, asset, so, guys, recently we, had, Kane, Warwick, on, uh, the, founder, of

synthetics, and, infinex, and, he, said, quote if, you, are, new, to, the, space, it, is, not clear, at, all, how, you, align, yourself financially, with, ethereum, in, the, way

that, it, was, in, 2017, through, 2021, I, 100% like, resonated, with, this, because, back then, you, had, to, often, buy, e, to

participate, in, icos, you, had, to, buy, eth to, participate, in, a, lot, of, defi, now, you still, have, to, buy, eth, today, in, order, to use, you, know, ethereum, main, net, and, most

of, the, l2s, require, you, to, pay, uh, some sort, of, gas, fee, and, eth, but nonetheless, the, growth, of, l2s, the, growth

of, all, the, different, protocols, I, I, think has, created, so, many, options, that, it's unclear, at, times, like, if, I'm, bullish

ethereum's, uh, growth, in, stable, coins like, how, do, I, express, that, view, like, I would, have, thought, to, buy, eth, years, ago but, I, think, folks, coming, into, the, space

again, there's, there's, confusion, so, how do, you, think, about, this, I, I, know, your job, isn't, just, to, like, shill, eth, I, know it's, about, implementing, the, technology communicating, the, value, prop, and, so

forth, but, at, the, end, of, the, day, yeah, we need, more, folks, who, are, clearly, going, to buy, eth, and, buy, it, in, size, like, I, I think, that's, that's, another, issue, so

what, I, think, about, you, know, the, goal, of ethereum, as, being, as, as, Grant, Hummer, I said, civilizational, infrastructure, you know, I, think, of, um

I, think, in, terms, of, years, or, or, even decades, in, terms, of, the, value proposition, and, the, persistent, value proposition, of, ethereum, the, network, and the, asset, and, when, I'm, thinking, about, um

particular, application, layer, tokens, or particular, rollups, you, know, it's, it's great, because, these, things, are, designed to, come, and, to, go, right, like, there, it's

a, modular, ecosystem, where, this, role, can be, dominant, this, new, tech, can, kind, of take, place, and, and, these, things, are going, to, have, all, sorts, of, different flows, in, terms, of, actual, usage, and, and

value, over, over, time, Horizons, but, I think, the, persistent, thing, here, is, that the, Long, play, is, that, ethereum, and, eth the, aset, are, the, backbone, of, it, all, and so, that, that's, kind, of, how, I, think, about

the, difference, between, following, the fancy, of, of, uh, these, various, things versus, like, buying, into, the, backbone, of you, know, largely, what, I, see, as, you, know civilizational, infrastructure, great

point, and, I, think, this, is, probably, a good, place, for, us, to, start, to, wrap, up, so I, want, to, remind, our, listeners, they, can learn, more, about, a, theory, I, by, going, to

etherealized, doio, follow etherealized, on, X, follow, VI, Ventures which, is, uh, the's, personal, handle, follow Danny, Ryan, and, we'll, put, all, of, that

into, our, show, notes, so, you, can, easily reference, it, guys, thank, you, so, much, for coming, on, again, we're, clearly, excited for, the, work, that, you're, doing, in, a, way

it, does, remind, me, of, uh, some, of, the, work that, I, was, originally, excited, for, with consensus, I, I, worked, at, consensus, from 2018, through, 2020, and, there, was, a, value

that, they, delivered, but, I, I, I, know, a, lot has, changed, since, then, you, know, just we're, in, 2025, and, now, we've, got, you, know a, much, more, friendly, uh, political

backdrop, to, crypto, and, I, think, that, has clearly, opened, the, doors, for, something like, etherealized, I, don't, think etherealized, could, have, or, should, have been, stood, up, in, other, words, you, know

back, in, 2018, or, 2020, um, so, really, happy that, you, guys, are, able, to, capitalize, on this, opportunity, any, final, word, for, us um, any, like, call, to, action, for, folks that, want, to, get, involved, with, ethereal

eyes, or, maybe, they're, a, potential investor, into, eth, that, want, to, learn more, about, eth, from, you, so, they, can, buy lots, of, eth, for, pension, fund, or, some

other, large, institution, all, I'll, say, is the, actual, adoption, moment, in, the, actual bull, market, and, the, actual, Innovation wave, is, literally, starting, right, now, you couldn't, have, had, a, better, Perfect, Storm

of, having the, US, opening, store, to, crypto, wanting to, be, a, global, leader, in, crypto, um Bitcoin, Crossing, the, Rubicon, and, making it, into, a, strategic, Reserve, these, are

the, the, the, the, advocacy, for tokenization, across, the, entire, um, span of, Wall, Street, and, Beyond, and, an, open Innovation, ecosystem, where, people, can

actually, build, companies, and, actually adopt, blockchain, so, if, I, feel, we're, at the, very, very, beginning, and, it's, been, an annoying, price, ride, shortterm, but longterm, I, think, think, this, is, going, to

be, as, big, as, the, AI, movement, was, and, as as, big, as, the, internet, was, it's, just, um worth, the, cusp, of, adoption, thanks everyone, for, tuning, in, if, you're, a talented, founder, or, developer, please consider, reaching, out, to, our, team, at

forth, revolution., capital, and, to, stay, up

forth, revolution., capital, and, to, stay, up to, date, with, future, episodes, plus, get expert, tips, strategies, and, exclusive content, subscribe, to, our, free, newsletter

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