Ex-CIA Operator Survives 26 vs 1 Ambush & Exposes Chilling U.S. Trafficking Network | Tony Cowden

just felt like I like a dream where you can't get get away from whatever's chasing you. That afternoon we were

chasing you. That afternoon we were doing, you know, a CTR, roll through a neighborhood, you know, kind of like getting some photos and and P and a target like, okay, that's the actual

building. But as we were leaving the

building. But as we were leaving the neighborhood, uh, turn, I'm accelerating and dude runs right out in front of me and blasts us with an RPG. And I was pretty daz confused. I freaking ate the steering wheel, you know. I I heard the

rounds hitting the car. My butt's like, "Hey, hey, you know, get up." Pop the doors. Of course, he's on the side of

doors. Of course, he's on the side of the bad guys. As soon as he popped the door around, hit him here, exited here, and actually hit me back. Get across the street, and I kind of took a little bit

of a stand right there. I grabbed his his rifle, kind of rolled around, did about a 200 round bar. So, I almost melt the barrel barrel off that saw, and that got them dudes attention.

What is going on everyone? Welcome back

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Thank you. If you're in Cartel Country, you just know that you uh keep your eyes down. Don't go buying

drugs or whatever, you know. Um, don't

get involved in anything you're not supposed to get involved in. You know,

it's funny and I've said it. I feel like I've said this on all the podcasts talking about >> any legal [ __ ] you want to do in the [ __ ] third world or fourth world, >> it's the hotel concier. Yeah.

>> He'll get you anything you want, bro.

>> Like a battleship, he can probably get it.

>> Yeah.

>> I be a boat, but whatever.

>> You can get a gun. You can get whatever.

>> Whatever you want.

>> Yeah. It's

>> Don't don't have to go out there and get in trouble.

>> Well, I'm sure when you guys would like infiltrate countries, like that's probably what you guys would take advantage of, too. It's like we don't have to. We can find a source who can be

have to. We can find a source who can be the source.

>> That's right.

>> You know, >> um >> Yeah. You know, smarter not harder, man.

>> Yeah. You know, smarter not harder, man.

Freaking It's like don't Let's Hey, man.

We We can put an explosive charge on that door.

>> Or I could just see if it's unlocked.

>> We have to go straight to like going through the wall >> and they still won't know we're there like quiet. You know what I mean?

like quiet. You know what I mean?

>> Um yeah. Yeah, I mean with the third world thing too, it's like uh a lot of it boils down to um the idea with the corruption and all that too is obviously

goes like super high up to the government and all those levels, but it's so like community based in all these other countries where here it's like everything falls in line to you

know the grander scheme of things.

>> That that's kind of a thing, right? like

in other countries that don't have the diversity that we do, you know, they all have something in common and it could be their race or religion or both. Often

time it is both, right? And we don't have that here. Um and I and I think the diversity thing is is obviously an amazing experiment. It's like I said

amazing experiment. It's like I said been done before. Um, but as far as I can tell, at least from what I've read,

you know, again, obviously limited to whatever, but I can't find anything in any of these different uh like Rome, right? Where

right? Where yeah, there was a hierarchy, right? Like

clearly a Roman citizen was you know higher on the hierarchy than a citizen of Gaul or you know where Saxon you know

>> Saxon's not but even though they might be holding the rank of whatever in you know and and even commanding a legion or whatever they're still not the same right

>> so there's always a hierarchy right prejudice racism whatever you want to call it right but I can't find anything in history where it shows like that deliberate pitting them against each

other.

>> Um, and maybe it's in the nuance that I'm not picking it up, but I I look for it in numerous books and things like especially in Rome since it is are the best uh documented um last great nation.

Mhm.

>> But then I was like studying the uh the great northern wars between Norway, Denmark, um Lethonia, now Lithuania, and

then um in Russia. And same deal there, man. They they you know, even though

man. They they you know, even though they were taking over each other's lands and assimilating their people, they didn't pit them against each other where like it is clear, man, we are being

pitted against each other, right? like

and that's that's such an interesting at least best I can tell a new play on this on this whole political warfare thing and I think that's interesting in and of

itself. I mean what's the conclusion? I

itself. I mean what's the conclusion? I

don't know. I don't have one. I don't

know how it plays out. Yeah.

>> You know, I don't know if it plays out for the good or for the bad. Looks like

for the bad. Like we can't get along, man. Like I said, you know, even in like

man. Like I said, you know, even in like the shooting community, guns and stuff, man, dudes will fight and argue over the dumbest stuff. Like red dot versus iron

dumbest stuff. Like red dot versus iron sights, and call each other names and stuff, and I'm like, >> "Hey, man, >> I think it's the internet."

>> The internet allows us to be [ __ ] to each other.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, it's funny. So, I had a fella, you know, um, you know, I I got a, frankly, I got accused of cheating in shooting USPSA

and I was cleared, but there were some people who perpetuated lies. Flatout

lies. Freaking. And me being the, you know, whatever. [ __ ] you guys. I don't

know, whatever. [ __ ] you guys. I don't

care. I ain't try to defend myself.

>> Yeah, I can respond to that.

>> Well, I don't have time for this [ __ ] People who know me stood up for me because they knew better.

Well, in I kind of it was this this this one of these guys who

talked a bunch of [ __ ] about me, right?

Well, I wind up face to face with him. I

don't say anything. I'm just nice to him, you know, just cordial.

Um, and so we're connecting on a military level. So, I'm still in the

military level. So, I'm still in the National Guard, right? So, um he's much younger than me. And so, after second or third time I was in the same space as him, we were talking about shooting and

this and that. I leaned over and I was like, "Hey man, you still feel like" and I basically quoted something he had said about me on internet and dude

>> froze up.

>> His eyes got big and I just smiled and laughed. I was like, "That internet,

laughed. I was like, "That internet, man. It's a lot easier to be a [ __ ]

man. It's a lot easier to be a [ __ ] prick on the internet than it was right here in front of me, isn't it?"

>> And I changed my demeanor from happy and nice to just looking at him. And he

wouldn't look me in the eye, man. I was

like, "Eh, don't sweat it, man. Freaking

I ain't mad at you." You know, but I let him know like, "Hey, man. That's such

horseshit."

>> Yeah. If you want to have a conversation, have a conversation.

>> You cuz if I say on the internet that you're whatever and you ask me about like, "Yeah, whatever, man. [ __ ] you want to fist fight about it?"

>> Yeah.

>> I don't care. Freaking cuz I grew up in an age where, you know, it was okay to sort [ __ ] out with a little fist fight, you know?

>> First conversation, too, a lot of times has to be in person. Like that's what >> the internet now allows you to like never met someone or you know, there's there's Oh my god. For like I said with the podcast, like people love to make

the craziest comments. It's kind of what we were talking offline too. It's like

there'll be times, you know, we'll dive in today like some of the crazy war stories and stuff that you had and it's like there'll be times I'll go over this and then guys will say like why' they make this decision or >> you know like this sounds crazy and

stuff. I was like you guys have to

stuff. I was like you guys have to understand >> when you're in combat, stuff's moving that fast. All this

stuff's happening >> like that's that's part of >> you just you're doing you're not even making decisions half the times. you are

doing >> and people on the internet you can make that >> I'll tell you frankly you know you know when when I was with Sean Ryan and I was talking about you know the the day my my

buddy FTO got killed and I wanted by myself and people were like that's [ __ ] [ __ ] that's impossible no way did it happen I was like actually there's quite a few stories just like that

>> not just me um you know that I actually went and did that interview with Sean right after um the election that I lost right and So I was already disenfranchised with, you

know, the world, the internet, the Republican party. And I did that

Republican party. And I did that interview with Shawn.

And so Sean and I met for breakfast, me, him, and Melissa, my wife, and we chatted. And um,

chatted. And um, you know, I I also recently done I gain, right? And Sean had done I gain, and

right? And Sean had done I gain, and that was, you know, a lot of connectivity there. He and I were

connectivity there. He and I were supposed to do that interview when I was running for Congress. Couldn't make it happen. So, fast forward, whatever. So,

happen. So, fast forward, whatever. So,

in that interview, Sean and I are talking and just like with you, man, we start talking and like I might we're talking about this, but I might wind up talking about that, right? Cuz just, you know, your thoughts, right? You know,

it's a a very relaxed conversation. And

I will tell you this about Sean.

>> Sean has a a very calm about himself.

And some people say he wasn't that way back in the day before I began, right?

And keep in mind, man, I'm still within only a few weeks of Ibec. I'm very

chill.

>> It was that close.

>> Yeah. And you can see me on Sean Ryan.

I'm smiling. I'm happy. Um I watch that interview sometimes. I'm like, "Wow, I

interview sometimes. I'm like, "Wow, I really was glowing, right?" Like, and that's what I did for me. But, you know, I I talked about my career and I, you

know, I try really hard to I don't tell a bunch of cool guy war stories, right?

Who cares, man? I mean, you know, I have over 10 years of my life deployed to combat, right? I've seen a lot of

gunfights. Not a few, many.

gunfights. Not a few, many.

I don't even care to count.

And so like some of the stuff I talked about with Sean were not even the craziest [ __ ] I've ever seen, right? And

there some of the stuff I just can't talk about, right? Because it's

connected to other things, classified and all that. So I know what I can talk about when I can't. I mean, I got my PP slap for a lot of stuff I talked about on Sean Ryan because I talked about stuff I had never talked about before,

>> right? Like to Melissa

>> right? Like to Melissa >> and on on his that morning at breakfast, I was like, I don't know if I should talk about IB. I'm worried I could use my lose my security clearance. I'm still

in the National Guard. At the time I was in 20th group. I don't know how that's going to be received, you know, like clearly it's an illegal substance. You

know, people don't understand it. You

know, they're going to think it's just doing mushrooms for fun. And Sean goes, "Well, I tell you what, bro. You know,

when uh when we we get to recording, if you feel called to talk about it, we will. If you don't, hey, man, don't

will. If you don't, hey, man, don't sweat it."

sweat it." And so on the ride there, Melissa looked at me and she goes, "You're about to have an opportunity to help thousands of people."

people." >> I was just about to say that.

>> Do what you want with it. And I'll tell you, man, Melissa Hoff, now Cton, finally. Um, and she's brilliant. Like,

finally. Um, and she's brilliant. Like,

she's smarter than I am, right? Not by a little bit. She's very intelligent. Her

little bit. She's very intelligent. Her

IQ is who knows what, right? Of course,

maybe that's a stereotype since she's half Japanese. like she does

half Japanese. like she does trigonometry in her head and [ __ ] Um, so I sat down with Sean and started talking and with the intent of helping

people, right? And my intent of talking

people, right? And my intent of talking about a couple of those war stories that were my extreme days, things that should have scarred me for life, that could

have ruined my life, um, that I should maybe have PTSD from or whatever. And

I'm sure I do, right? Like I mean we all you you can't not almost get in a car wreck, not have some sort of PTSD, right? My entire intent of talking about

right? My entire intent of talking about that stuff with Sean was to tell guys that are out there [ __ ] suffering what I've done to be okay. Quit

drinking. I work out. I keep I always have a goal, right? And I talked about Ibane. And the reason why I talked about

Ibane. And the reason why I talked about that shitty ass [ __ ] afternoon was to tell guys like, man, I was running for my [ __ ] life. I was behind the curve.

And that's how I describe it. You know,

like in a in a in a um in a dream where you're running from something and you can't get away from it. That's how I felt. I was never ahead of the curve. It

felt. I was never ahead of the curve. It

was one stupid [ __ ] mistake after the next. Left my phone in the car. [ __ ]

next. Left my phone in the car. [ __ ] took a round in my radio, right?

[ __ ] left my VSS panel on the roof when they started shooting at me and then I ran off the roof and missed the first floor and smashed into the ground, right? Two stories, man. That [ __ ] hurt

right? Two stories, man. That [ __ ] hurt a lot.

And had it happened five seconds later than it did, the dude who ran by me would have killed my ass cuz I didn't have my [ __ ] together. I

was like I gotten hit by a car.

>> Yeah.

Um, so I talked about all that stuff in in with the intent of of so when guys could hear it because I obviously knew the reach that Shawn had. I really

wanted guys to just know like, "Hey man, you can be okay. Yeah, you're scarred.

You're scuffed up a little bit from this war. We all know we were pawns for the

war. We all know we were pawns for the rich to get richer. We're all dealing with that. But you know what,

with that. But you know what, [ __ ] That [ __ ] was yesterday. I

want you to look down the road because you still have a life. The war was yesterday, man. You're not like

yesterday, man. You're not like I uh I had an alter a discussion with a sergeant major one time when I come back in the guard. I had a 8-year break in

the service. I came into the guard and

the service. I came into the guard and uh this this s major man crazy [ __ ] um was chewing my ass cuz I joined this unit. Long short um they were deploying and I didn't know it and

he put me on a team that was deploying.

I was like whoa that's like next month.

I I'm not prepared for that had I known that. So I made try to join the other

that. So I made try to join the other unit up the road.

>> Yeah.

>> He's like, "You're a [ __ ] Green Beret. You're a Green Beret. You're a

Beret. You're a Green Beret. You're a

Green Beret." And like me being the little smartass that I am. And cuz I had two options at this point. Break that

dude's jaw.

>> Cuz that's where we were at. Or I went, "Sorry major. S Major, please stop. S

"Sorry major. S Major, please stop. S

Major, please stop. Stop." And my team, who I just met minutes prior, is standing there and he's retiring, so he don't give a [ __ ] He don't like Ser Major either. Um, sorry, major.

Major either. Um, sorry, major.

A green beret is a hat.

I'm a person and I have feelings.

And that dude almost exploded.

And And I was being a smart ass, but I was trying to make light. He didn't

think it was funny. Team Sant was like, "All right, stop. You know, let's let's separate this a major. I'm going to talk to him. We're going to figure this stuff

to him. We're going to figure this stuff out." Right?

out." Right?

But that's what I want guys to know, right? Like, dude, you're not a Marine.

right? Like, dude, you're not a Marine.

That's something you did. You're not a Navy Seal, right? That's that's a job title.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. Like, do you know does a trash man identify as a trash man? You know,

does a construction worker identify?

Like, is his identity wrapped around his job? No. Why do we do it? And then when

job? No. Why do we do it? And then when it's taken from us or we have to give it up, taken. you're injured, busted up,

up, taken. you're injured, busted up, uh wounded [Music] now you're holding on to to something that was into the past, right? So, that

was the big thing that I went into talking to Sean, especially about that day. And if you listen to it, the way it

day. And if you listen to it, the way it segued, but then in the comments, you know, like I talk about, you know, they just that last week posted a clip where I was talking about with me and my my

echo because we couldn't fly back to Jalali from Borm uh because the weather was bad and the Hilos couldn't fly. So,

we flew to Interlick. We were going to fly to K2 all fixed wing and we could fly in in bad weather.

I mean just Jalalabi, dude. It's like in it's Jalalabi. There's [ __ ] mountains

it's Jalalabi. There's [ __ ] mountains everywhere, you know? It's like living in, you know, I don't know, [ __ ] >> I wherever in the mountains of Colorado

or Wyoming, winds, weather, right?

>> People don't think they think it's all desert and it's like you got >> No, man. It's like [ __ ] >> I want to put a picture 18,000 foot mountains, right? Right. It's the Hindu

mountains, right? Right. It's the Hindu Kush [ __ ] Everest is right up the road a bit, you know.

>> Um, and so, you know, like people were like, "Oh, what a what a bunch of what kind of a [ __ ] piece of [ __ ] would leave his team in Afghanistan and go partying and dude, it was an eighth month [ __ ] deployment and we were

living in a [ __ ] hole digging [ __ ] you know, I mean, so anyway, you have these keyboard warriors who say this and that. And in my conversation with Sean,

that. And in my conversation with Sean, I talked, he said, "Well, you know, like how many bad guys?" And I said, and frankly I'm

addressing this for the first time since. I said, "The Iraqi police said

since. I said, "The Iraqi police said they found 26 bodies."

And in the conversation, I say I had just talked about the helicopters and the army unit that responded to help

me. So, not all 26 were mine

me. So, not all 26 were mine >> and I never claimed them.

>> But the internet decided that I said I went one on 26 plus and one. I don't

know if the number was correct. I know

there's one number and that is when we were leaving they told me that they would recover my buddy's body. And I was like, "Fuck no. I don't leave a man behind." And I dude, I was exhausted. I

behind." And I dude, I was exhausted. I

was [ __ ] exhausted. I had no water.

It's June and Ira, right? Dude, it's

hot.

>> Yeah. I was like, we got we don't leave no one behind, right? No man gets left behind. Turn this [ __ ] thing around,

behind. Turn this [ __ ] thing around, right? So, we went back and got him.

right? So, we went back and got him.

And yeah, man, it was so frustrating. It

still is to listen to look at comments and people calling me a [ __ ] liar and this and that and I'm like, you didn't even listen to what I said, right?

>> I can rec I mean, studying for this podcast, I can recall it's you're exactly >> exactly what I said. I did not say I know

I know exactly how many people I killed that day >> plus or minus one or two cuz when the initial engagement it was a lot of fully automatic [ __ ] shooting

I dumped 200 rounds out of assault in just a couple of seconds right >> um and it's funny cuz you know like I said man I thought I was doing the right thing so couple that with you know the

election and hating the Republicans and all that stuff man that's when I kind of like pulled off internet. I was like, I'm so [ __ ] done. I'm trying to help people >> and these ungrateful cops suckers are

are telling me I'm a liar and I made it all up. Dude, there's an official

all up. Dude, there's an official afteraction review, right? And that's

why, you know, like teammates and stuff who also comment on they're like, "No, legit." Well, a lot of my teammates are

legit." Well, a lot of my teammates are still work. You know, they still have

still work. You know, they still have agency identifier numbers and clearances and [ __ ] You think they're going on the internet to tell >> No. So anyway, it was it was so

>> No. So anyway, it was it was so frustrating because my intent was pure >> and um and then you know now I'm just like you know what that's just the [ __ ]

internet you know >> well because the people you help they're not going to be the ones that are commenting and stuff because for one a lot of them like >> to comment on YouTube you kind of got to go the extra mile like it it you know

some people >> you're going out there to comment hateful [ __ ] it's more just like you really >> it's more than one click.

>> Yeah. Like if you feel if you're >> getting like a lot of the feedback we got on the Marcus episode or even Yasik, like people talking about this is crazy.

Like it hasn't even been comments. It's

been like DMs on Instagram of people like wanting to really get in touch and whatever, but the people that are helped, they're not seldom do they go on.

>> I will tell you this, man, and Melissa's so good at pointing this out, man. Um

if I'm frustrated, back then I was frustrated. I was like, you know, [ __ ]

frustrated. I was like, you know, [ __ ] these [ __ ] man. You know what?

I I bust my ass. Like even when I own my gym and stuff, man, I gave out free memberships. Like if you were a combat

memberships. Like if you were a combat veteran, you just had to tell me if you saw the show, you had a free membership at my gym, dude. Like I mean, I'm that guy. I'm the big brother, man. I'm the

guy. I'm the big brother, man. I'm the

NCO that makes sure I take care of my boys and you better not talk to them, right? You know what I mean? They're my

right? You know what I mean? They're my

boys. They're my guys. And so, you know, I became very well aware when I was running my gym that some of the younger guys looked up to me and that's and I took it seriously. Like, I can't I I

can't be irresponsible and to give these guys bad advice.

So, I was like, you know what? I will

only ever speak to guys about my lessons learned. And that's what I was talking

learned. And that's what I was talking about on Sean that day with Sean that day. And it was, man, it was like, these

day. And it was, man, it was like, these are my lessons learned. And like you know I tried to tell you know some of the funny stories like I know I talked time man how one of my teammates who was

on this raid uh with me I talked about Sean Ryan like man you know it's always a race to be the number one man right and as a to I'm not supposed to be the number one man right like you can't help it you know >> you want to be

>> and another thing that like I think some some folks don't always realize is you get bored we get bored you know how you get bored at work we get bored at work too and start doing silly stuff and fun

things and things that make jokes about and sometimes you go, "Okay, we all right, we almost got ourselves killed.

Maybe we shouldn't do that dumb shit."

Um, you know, but I talked about, you know, time like, you know, slid down a rope freaking and then sprinting as fast as we can to this door and I tripped on this little ledge and breached the door

with my freaking nods. My face, man. My

helmet was all wrapped around and stuff.

So, I was trying to tell kind of light-hearted stories, too, you know, like kind of make light of it for guys.

But yeah, I was very I was frustrated and like very disenfranchised with the internet. I was like, you know what,

internet. I was like, you know what, man? All of my stuff is how to

man? All of my stuff is how to >> Yeah.

>> Right. Everything it's either, hey, man, here's a lesson learned that has helped me, right? Like, quit drinking alcohol.

me, right? Like, quit drinking alcohol.

Shit's poison. Um, or, you know, as I delved into the plant medicine space, like, holy [ __ ] guys, this stuff is amazing. Right. I have it in me where I

amazing. Right. I have it in me where I do I I like helping people, man. I give

bums money.

>> Yeah. I'm the same, too.

>> And some people say, "Well, they're just going to use it for drugs." And I'm like, "Well, I hope it's a hell of a buzz then because you know what? The

Bible teaches me that I must treat every single person I meet as if it's Jesus himself."

himself." >> Mhm.

>> So, like yesterday at the grocery store, freaking this lady came up like, "Hey, you know, could you help me buy a lemonade?"

lemonade?" Smallest thing I had on me. I had a 20 and a 10. I gave her the 10. I was like, "Get yourself something to eat, too, sweetheart." You know, because you Yeah,

sweetheart." You know, because you Yeah, it's clear she' been using, man. You

know, >> I always end up buying them food or something like yesterday.

>> I try to >> Yeah. Sometimes it's, you know,

>> Yeah. Sometimes it's, you know, >> the way I reconcile it, justify it, whatever you want to say is like, you know what? Hey, what they would do with

know what? Hey, what they would do with that money is on them.

>> But you're given the opportunity to at least >> But I'm doing >> at least what I think is right. And

>> you know, like we were talking offline a little bit, man. You know, I've been mean to people. I've hurt people and I don't want to do that anymore. I

mean, unless they are bad, you know, I've done some counterhuman trafficking type stuff um in the last couple years.

I got no clumps hurting those [ __ ] >> What's your experience with that? Cuz I

that I've I've been I'm having some guys on soon to kind of discuss, but [ __ ] man. It feels like that thing barely

man. It feels like that thing barely gets the attention it should.

that program I can't talk about right just yet >> sadly >> but I will tell you this man in where we were doing what we were doing it's not just human trafficking it's organ

trafficking >> really >> as in mom and dad the whole family say for years to send their 13-year-old daughter somewhere better but she

doesn't make it what her insides do >> [ __ ] [ __ ] >> and that's not here, but it's happening here too.

>> Yeah, >> it's horrible.

>> And those people in my mind ain't [ __ ] people. If you're willing to chop a [ __ ] little girl up, >> rip her intestine, or excuse me, her

kidneys, lungs, heart out, throw it in a [ __ ] cooler of ice, and ship it to somewhere where there's rich people.

Dude, you're not a human, man. That's

demon [ __ ] That's evil, right? That's

that's beyond fighting for what you believe in. That's that's just so in

believe in. That's that's just so in that case, man. Yeah, I don't have a lot of problems being mean to those [ __ ] But like, you know, like we were even we mentioned it earlier, like

you know, even our adversaries in the Middle East, I always try to give them respect.

They're willing to get they were willing to fight us the baddest mofos on the planet with the baddest [ __ ] equipment. We can see at night. I can be

equipment. We can see at night. I can be anywhere in town on a rooftop or in an alleyway in minutes, >> you know, right? I got top cover, >> you know what I mean? Like, I can

literally pick up the phone and ask for a freaking, you know, bomber full of 2,000lb bombs plus or whatever, you know? And these dudes were still willing

know? And these dudes were still willing to fight us. That would be like be like me and you hopping in the ring with Chuck Lidell. Like, we're about to get

Chuck Lidell. Like, we're about to get our asses beat. We know it. You know

what I mean? and they did it on the nightly daily.

Um, so I had to give them a little bit of respect. But yeah, man, the the whole

of respect. But yeah, man, the the whole organ trafficking thing like in in this day and age like and that's another one of those big cover ups because there's a market for it here too, but it's huge in Europe.

>> I'm hearing I've heard this a lot that in Houston there's like a huge problem of people just disappearing and >> the harvest they're they're they're harvesting factories on the other side

of our border.

>> That's exact. Yeah. Like that's that's that's what I've heard a lot. It's those

border towns. It's just

>> you know it's [ __ ] up because just like the drug trade, right? Who who's

the bad people in the drug trade? Drug

dealers.

>> Because the users are victims and they're, you know, they're the end users are, you know, they're they're sick. You

know, addiction is a sickness.

>> Okay, cool.

>> It can be both. They can be bad people with bad decisions >> at the exact same time kind of be a victim and an addict. And addiction is definitely a very powerful thing.

>> I mean, I've never been addicted to a substance, but like heroin or crack when a young lady will sell her body to a group of men for a substance, a high,

dude, that's some powerful [ __ ] Like, I can't wrap my head around that, right?

When a a a beautiful little college girl is willing to go into the ghetto and get gang raped for a $20 hit of heroin, that's some badass [ __ ] you know? Like

>> some some people don't even like they don't even mean to do it. It's like we were talking about with John Norris was saying this like stuff's just laced and it just >> and then they're asleep.

>> Yeah. And those are >> again [ __ ] evil.

>> Yeah. You can make the argument that's like if you're using you become victim with the sex trafficking, organ trafficking and stuff. There's no

>> supply and demand.

>> Yes.

>> When it comes to that, I'm like, hey, man, the the suppliers, the traders, they're low level.

>> And let's talk about the marketplace.

Why does the is why is there even a market place for human organs, >> right? Those and it's not cheap, man.

>> right? Those and it's not cheap, man.

You know, there's a reason why they talk about a kidney will get you freaking 50 grand. That is not true. It's way more

grand. That is not true. It's way more expensive than that. At least it is in the European market. Um, it's horrible [ __ ] bro. But yeah, like I said, man, with the, you know, the internet, you

know, I was, I was pissed for a while. I

was like, "Fuck you people, man.

Freaking Um, and I'm only recently kind of coming out of it." Uh, I was at a lull. I didn't want to talk about, you

lull. I didn't want to talk about, you know, hey, this is how you shoot a pistol. How many videos on Instagram can

pistol. How many videos on Instagram can I do about shooting a pistol or carving or whatever? Um, over the last, you

or whatever? Um, over the last, you know, five, I guess maybe even seven or eight years now, I've gotten back into long range shooting, um, as a to. I

didn't get to do sniper wa [ __ ] So, when I came back into the guard, I wound up, you know, um, teaching it again. And

I a I was like, "Holy [ __ ] this discipline has progressed since I last uh, you know, was getting dope now. I

got all these calculators and all this fancy equipment." Um, so anyway, I' I've

fancy equipment." Um, so anyway, I' I've kind of found that resurgence and like wanting to put out content and stuff.

Um, and a lot of it, right, like I said, I used to talk about um, you know, like how to how to be a better dude, how to be this and that because I did recognize at the gym

especially that and we had, you know, almost now two two generations where my generation and even maybe 10 years older than me

failed their sons, right? They fell in this modern liberal experiment of not teaching them to be men and then you know because people were afraid to be canceled and being mean to and like toxic masculinity and all that. It's

like, no, no, masculinity is a real thing and it needs like femininity needs masculinity and vice versa for us to do what we're supposed to do, nature, right? And again, I always go back to

right? And again, I always go back to the one of the biggest problems in America today is in our as we became civilized, >> we've lost >> Yeah, we were talking about that offline,

>> right? We've lost the lessons nature

>> right? We've lost the lessons nature teaches us like just like the wolves in Colorado, >> the feeling of it, the feeling of it.

The average American 17-year-old does not understand nature. And I mean like how nature works, how you know the breeding process work, how predators

maintain the prey and the and the praise numbers, all that basic stuff. Like I

said, I use the example of the morons wanting to reintroduce the wolves in Colorado.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. Even though they had a perfect example of Idaho, Wyoming, where it was a horrible thing, you know, politicians being politicians, instead of trusting,

you know, the wildlife agencies, they put on an open ballot.

>> Yep. And get like >> and pulled the purse strings of all the people who don't know [ __ ] about wolves and what they're capable of. I admire

wolves. I think I mean if you study the way they hunt they do hammer and anvil operations freaking ambush I mean they are sophisticated >> they also have their own boundaries and community and like you can see it on

mapping >> social skills man big time >> and so when you understand that you Mike would understand that reintroducing them into Colorado is not going to be a good thing you know like the ones they put

out in Wyoming >> they're like all the way in New York now and we're in a couple of years Michigan right these Things will travel thousands of miles.

>> Like coyotes, too. Coyotes like are in New York City like in Manhattan.

>> Oh, coyotes are one adaptive little creature, man. Freaking And they ain't

creature, man. Freaking And they ain't afraid of humans. Freaking they uh the cool thing about coies is that because they are so adaptive is once they find an easy food source, you'll stick with it.

>> Yep.

>> Um so like a good example of that was year before last, we're up on the ranch in Montana, Thorson Ranch, and we see a coyote. Well, North Carolina, you see a

coyote. Well, North Carolina, you see a coyote, you shoot it on site. Well, we

smoked this coyote and we're all proud of ourselves. And Raymond, the ranch

of ourselves. And Raymond, the ranch owner was like, "Uh, all right, guys." And he's like the nicest [ __ ] human being on the planet. Love the dude. He's like, it's

planet. Love the dude. He's like, it's my brother, man. Freaking a cattleman rancher up Montana. Just amazing dude.

He's like, "So, check it out, guys. We

don't we don't kill coyotes up here."

We're like, "What? What do you mean?

North Carolina, man. We kill coyotes, right?" Like, period.

right?" Like, period.

And he's like, "Yeah, so they don't eat cattle here. They eat gophers." Because

cattle here. They eat gophers." Because

the gophers are easy and we have tens of thousands of >> and they screw up the land, too.

>> And they create holes to the cattle. So

the coyotes are the friends of the ranchers in this area. I didn't know.

>> Imagine that. Yeah.

>> Well, coyotes are amazing little creatures, man. And you know, I was uh

creatures, man. And you know, I was uh you've had my my partner in the Reason Outdoors on, Ryan Caparis, and you know, he is a nighttime hunting fool, man.

Like that's what he does. hogs, coyotes.

He's you ask him a question about a thermal and he will turbo nerd out on you. I be like, "Dude, I just want to

you. I be like, "Dude, I just want to see in the dark. I don't know what you're talking about." He's like, "No, no, the screen rates." I'm like, "Dude, which one's the best one?" Right? That's

what I'm going to get. I'm going to put it on a gun. I'm going to turn it on.

I'm going to go shoot with it. I don't

need to know all the rest. But, uh, you know, we were talking about long ago that, you know, North Carolina's deer population is actually it needs to be regulated. The problem is we have all

regulated. The problem is we have all these coyotes. They're not killing the

these coyotes. They're not killing the deer. They're killing all kinds of other

deer. They're killing all kinds of other stuff. Foul, you know, like our quail

stuff. Foul, you know, like our quail population. There's no quail left in

population. There's no quail left in North Carolina because of the coyotes.

>> So, it's kind of sucks, man. It'd be

nice if the coyotes would help us with our deer because a a smaller deer population means more food for the deer, bigger antlers, bigger deer, healthier animals. Um, and the coyotes would be

animals. Um, and the coyotes would be such a great resource, but the coyotes, they found easier [ __ ] to kill and eat.

>> Yeah. And they're not they're not made for that environment, like Montana environment. They fit in perfectly. But

environment. They fit in perfectly. But

they've just been >> Yeah. I think it would be really cool,

>> Yeah. I think it would be really cool, man. Losing hunting in America

man. Losing hunting in America disconnected our entire population from nature.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, >> that's what it there's a there's a massive disconnect with people. And that

again, it goes back to the internet. I

always say this with comments. I was

like, I never take any anything serious when people like to comment out. I have

stuff like even like the lighting or whatever I'll have and they'll be like, I hate this light, whatever. Like this

is and I'm like, what are you talking about right now? you're like such a personalized like but I think in reading into too much comments because you were talking about earlier it's like >> when I meet people in person

>> you know they're like >> love the podcast and it's >> I had a recall of something my consultant when I ran for Congress said even though he's a lump of [ __ ] the oh

you bottom feeders in politics consultants >> oh for sure >> bottom feeders man they are the dirt bags of the dirt bags in politics >> they're the ones that like and you'll never see them man, they're the ones in

the background doing all the dirty nasty [ __ ] Anyway, he said, "Don't ever live in the comments when you post."

>> And I had forgotten that. And then at some point, I recalled him saying that, that conversation, whatever. And that

kind of helped me snap out of that little funk where I was like, you know what? [ __ ] the internet. [ __ ] all y'all.

what? [ __ ] the internet. [ __ ] all y'all.

You know what I mean? freaking I was giving away all this information that I've acquired, knowledge and experience I've acquired over a damn near 30-year career and I'm just giving it out for free, you know, and I'm like, if you

don't appreciate that [ __ ] screw it.

Here's a picture of my dog, >> you know, >> for the people that appreciate it, >> right? So, I come back full circle

>> right? So, I come back full circle because a lot of that stuff waned off, you know, it's the internet people, you know, whatever. Hopefully, when some of

know, whatever. Hopefully, when some of those same [ __ ] will watch this and it'll re reinvigorate them. Um, you

know, and let's face it, man, the internet's so full of drama. I mean,

there's there's podcasts out there that all they do is slam people, you know, and I'm like, what are you the [ __ ] view?

>> You know what I mean? Like, you're just some fat, you know, out of shape former soft dudes running your freaking mouths about other soft dudes, right? Like,

>> anyway, um, you know, everybody's a tough guy, right? And I'll tell people sometimes on internet just for fun. It's

funny because people think me that I that I like like I'll say snarky [ __ ] in the comments, you know, and I'm like, "No, this is I'm just being I think I'm funny, right? I'm a sarcastic type of

funny, right? I'm a sarcastic type of dude." And dudes will be a dick. I'll be

dude." And dudes will be a dick. I'll be

like, "Whatever, man. Freaking my

address is the same as my range.

Freaking swing by. If you can put me in the hospital, I give you 10 grand."

>> Coupe was saying the same [ __ ] I saw Coupe like hitting some comments and [ __ ] I was like, "Cuz I told we the same conversation because I was talking about a guy on Jimmy Watson. and he was like Blackwater guy and whatever. And he

>> caught a lot of heat cuz he got caught up in the um uh the Blackwater massacre.

He was like team tons of stuff with that. Yeah. Anyway, like dude got crazy

that. Yeah. Anyway, like dude got crazy amounts of hate and everything and like he had a moment where he's kind of looking and then >> you know now it's like >> he gets tons of positive comments, gets negative ones too, but he's like the

negative one he's like you can just tell they just don't >> People are negative man. You know it sucks. That's one of the downsides with

sucks. That's one of the downsides with America today. It's like people are

America today. It's like people are walking around miserable.

>> Yeah.

>> And if you're around miserable people, you're going to be [ __ ] miserable.

You know, my old man, God bless him, man, he uh used to say, you know, if you wall around and [ __ ] you're going to smell, >> you know, which I think is like his version of you're the sum of uh what's

that saying? You're the sum of the five

that saying? You're the sum of the five people you're closest to.

>> But his version was if you waller in [ __ ] you're going to smell. Um I like his version better. Uh but you know, people are just miserable.

And I don't I don't even know why. I

mean, I do I've been there where I was just a grumpy kind of shitty and you know, like pre my I first I gain

journey, you know, I was man and I look back and I now I can see it like my I was neither happy or angry.

>> I was just had work to do.

>> Yeah.

>> Realistic.

>> That's what Mark said too.

>> Yeah. If you had asked me 2019, you know, like how are you? I

would be like, oh, I'm content of everything I need.

I was content. I would would not have used the word happy.

>> Mhm.

>> So, I understand being kind of miserable, adding crappy sleep, crappy diet, alcohol, you poison. I always ask people, I was like, "Oh, dude, do you drink antifreeze?" And they're like,

drink antifreeze?" And they're like, "No." I'm like, "Well, you might as

"No." I'm like, "Well, you might as well. What's the difference?"

well. What's the difference?"

>> Yeah. Literally. You know, because real anifreeze will actually give you a buzz.

>> Especially like hard alcohol. What you

get in the hard alcohol, the whisies and stuff like it wrong.

>> It's poison, dude. Poison.

>> You can feel it, too, when you're drinking it cuz it burns.

>> It's called a hangover.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Also, if you turn a bottle of liquor up, you'll throw it up.

>> Well, guess what? If you intake poisons, you will throw it up. That's our body's natural defense. So, like I said, man, I

natural defense. So, like I said, man, I don't preach to people, but I will tell you like one of the best decisions I ever made was quitting drinking. And I

didn't quit necessarily because I was addicted or an alcoholic. Yeah, I drank a lot, but we all did. Um, I quit

drinking because Melissa came into my life and I was just, thank God, I was just smart enough. If I

had met her two years earlier, I'd have [ __ ] it up. She would have never even gotten close to me.

But I was just smart enough to go, you know what? I will never be able to

know what? I will never be able to maintain this relationship. This woman

will never stick around the drunk me.

Cuz the drunk me, you know, um I've never had a drug problem. I've never had an alcohol problem, but I like pretty things, you know? I mean, how did she get my attention? Uh because she's a

specimen. And um yeah, man, I was just

specimen. And um yeah, man, I was just smart enough to go, man, I should quit drinking because I did. I went out one night and uh partied with some guys and this and that and stuff and uh she didn't like it.

>> Mhm.

>> And I was like, "All right." And I was that was the last time I I got drunk.

And even that night, I wasn't even drunk. It was like a Tuesday night or

drunk. It was like a Tuesday night or something. Um but we did wind up going

something. Um but we did wind up going to a strip club, which is never my thing.

>> Yeah.

>> I never cared about going to strip clubs.

>> Also, at this point, they're basically like just another spot you It's like a Hooters >> on a Tuesday night. It's the only bar open in Southern Pines, right? Let's go

to Pure Gold. Um and uh all my so guys will know exactly what I'm talking else do on a Tuesday night but strip club's open. Um and so yeah man I recognize

open. Um and so yeah man I recognize that. So that's you know the drinking

that. So that's you know the drinking thing. And I tell dudes these days I'm

thing. And I tell dudes these days I'm like buy I mean if you need a buzz there's actually substances out there that'll give you a buzz, make you feel happy and also are good for you.

>> Yeah. They got those new nicotine p like because nicotine in its own right is actually not >> the worst for you.

There's clean pouches that you can get now. Like Black Buffalo is a good one

now. Like Black Buffalo is a good one where it's like if you really like dip, >> they use pretty much all natural ingredients in it and like I'll >> I don't do it all the time, but like if I golf and stuff like I love to like I'll use that and it's and I tell people

I'm like >> nicotine and stuff. I think the only problem with nicotine is you build a tolerance to it very quickly. So it's

neurotropic effects diminish fast.

>> Yes. And also the other stuff it's like cigarettes with other stuff they put in >> combustion.

Yeah, you get these normal dip pouches.

They got [ __ ] all this random [ __ ] Zins. Zins have like dyes and this and

Zins. Zins have like dyes and this and that into it.

>> Um, but obviously they're healthier than >> I mean, that's another thing I quit, man. Freaking one day. It was kind of a

man. Freaking one day. It was kind of a dumb dumb part of my life. I had to go to MLC, the master's leadership course, I think military calls it. Uh, it's a promotion course. So, it's sitting in a

promotion course. So, it's sitting in a classroom >> learning how to write NCERS and stuff.

is the opposite of kicking indoors and shooting [ __ ] You know, it's like only thing you want to shoot is yourself.

>> Um, and I'm sitting there in this class with, you know, 25 other SF dudes >> and whack whack whack.

>> This dude's dipping, that dude's dipping, that dude's dipping. And all I can smell is Copenhagen and Kodiak. And

I'm like, I really picked a horrible time to quit.

>> But I did. I made it through there. I

was like, well, if I can make it through that, you know, but that was another thing, man. I mean, I dip for like 18

thing, man. I mean, I dip for like 18 years and I have receding gums and stuff. My wife's a dentist and she's

stuff. My wife's a dentist and she's always like checking it, you know, and it's not good for you, you know, and in this day and age, man, we know that there are actually some substances out there that are really, really good for us.

>> Um, and I'm not advocating, you know, irresponsible recreational use, but psilocybin, freaking, you know, MDMA, even ketamine.

>> It's discipline with all of it. It's how

you use it, you know, cuz nicotine, the worst thing that's happening right now is these new vapes. Cuz

>> there's even different variations of that. Like the Jewel, which just like is

that. Like the Jewel, which just like is now allowed comeback. It's an

Americanmade whatever got banned for a little bit.

>> Asia came in, took over this market.

They got all these like disposable ones.

>> They're filled with just atrocious >> Yeah. I heard there's a lot of the vape

>> Yeah. I heard there's a lot of the vape pens that are made in China are illegal in China.

>> Yeah. They're they're horrible. But

people are using them all the time now, especially younger generation. And it's

like >> candy and it cartoons and stuff marketing the >> probably better to smoke a cigarette to be honest, which that's like that's crazy.

>> Yeah. Well, I have a good buddy of mine that was in the cannabis business. He

was um they were growing medicinal in Paraguay and he was talking about how you potentially freaking smoking it is better than some of the vapes that are out there that you know when you do go

to the dispensary and stuff they have different you know qualities and all that. I don't

that. I don't >> He can nerd out on it. Yeah, there's

other [ __ ] they add into it.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, >> yeah. I don't know, man.

>> yeah. I don't know, man.

>> I'd have to ask though, just for probably those that >> aren't they maybe didn't see the episode with Sean or anything, can we walk through what happened that day too because kind of laying out I guess.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, >> as you highlighted too, I think I said this with Jimmy and like a lot of the guys too. It's like I think the key

guys too. It's like I think the key aspect of this is again obviously all the guys you help, but it's also perspective building. like

perspective building. like >> so many luckily the show the audience is good like a lot of people you know it's we've attracted the right group of people but >> you'll see people out there that you

know like we were saying you have these conversations that they just have no idea what's happening overseas or >> understand the complexities of >> war what it is >> you know um you know what they say war

is like you know half a percent freaking chaos and fun for some guys um and then you know 99.5% % freaking, you know, boring.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, yeah, man. There's a reason why I have met so many deployments and trips is I I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the work. I

enjoyed the planning.

>> It's a lot like hunting.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, it's not like what we do is is riding around waiting to get blown up, you know, presence patrols. We don't do that kind of stuff, right? We have a target. Um, but yeah, man. So, you know,

target. Um, but yeah, man. So, you know, a lot of folks didn't realize, I mean, we were running around Iraq by ourselves. Um, you know, if me and you

ourselves. Um, you know, if me and you hop in a car and ride around Iraq, you know, we're probably going to they're going to see us.

>> If me by myself, you know, I have a nice tan, I dye my hair black, wear some sunglasses to cover up these uh these, you know, colonial blue eyes, uh, you

know, dye my beard all black, keep it nice and close, you know, like, and then wear local gear and stuff over our armor or whatever we're wearing. freaking and

I can drive around. No one pays me any mind. Hell, I've walked down the streets

mind. Hell, I've walked down the streets of Mosul and um Talifar and all those areas and you know people would kind of give me a double take but just keep

walking man freaking whatever you know they're going to going about their daily business. Mhm.

business. Mhm.

>> So, I think that was a part of it and and you know, why would we broadcast that we're doing singleton stuff, right?

We don't want the bad guys doing that.

Why would we talk about the females, you know, that we had, you know, there was a big push and we want women in combat.

We're over here going like, "Shut the [ __ ] up, man." Right?

Like, you're going to compromise us because there were females, right? Uh

female operators. the the one that caught a lot of attention was, you know, Shannon Kent.

You know, we the luckily the military did a great job of downplaying what exactly she was, but she's an operator, man. And and all the cool guy units and

man. And and all the cool guy units and and also where we were, we yeah, we used females. Now, are they kicking indoors

females. Now, are they kicking indoors and stuff like they some of them are very much training at sniper school, Halo school, all that stuff. They can do all that.

>> Um but they were awesome for surveillance, >> right? Like we had a female man that was

>> right? Like we had a female man that was Persian, um, Iranian descent. She spoke

six languages fluently. She's Persian,

so beautiful, attractive female. She

could equally put on a gown, a night gown, and go to a gala in New York City or anywhere and fit in. Um, she had her masters. She

masters. She I think she had left left the military as either a major or lieutenant colonel.

I can't remember she was got her lieutenant colonel or she was up for it.

But anyway, highly educated, super intelligent, super fit. Actually, the

first female I ever seen in my life doing kipping pull-ups. I was like, "What the [ __ ] is that?" You know?

>> And uh anyway, long story short, man, Chick was a stud of studs. And she could go out all by herself. freaking she'd

hop on a plane and fly wherever and fly back, you know, freaking Anyway, it just so yeah, we were able to run around do all kinds of crazy stuff by ourselves or at least what people thought was crazy

because most people have it in their mind like an SF team rolling around and multicam and all that, dude. Every now

and then we throw on a cammy top if we were out in the daytime and for a close recognition of us with the Iraqi police, stuff like that, you know? But typically

speaking, man, I'm wearing local garb, like I said, sun tanned out of our asses, right? I've got a picture of me

asses, right? I've got a picture of me with a Filipino teammate and a Mexican teammate, and I'm way darker than them.

Uh, we would sleep on the roofs cuz, you know, freaking, you know, during the day for and stay tan and all that. Well,

anyway, that afternoon we were doing, you know, a CTR, roll through a neighborhood, you know, kind of like just getting some photos and

and, you know, P and a target like, okay, that's the actual building and um we got compromised and it was like, all right, let's scoop this guy here. It happens. No, we do. We're

here. It happens. No, we do. We're

burnt, >> whatever. Let's go. But as we were

>> whatever. Let's go. But as we were leaving the neighborhood uh turn, I'm accelerating. dude runs right out in

accelerating. dude runs right out in front of me and blasts us with an RPG and I swerved right into it. It's not

like you can you RPGs don't always fly perfectly straight, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Like I said, we ate it

mattered anyway. Like I said, we ate it in the grill and um crashed into the median and then like one of those huge freaking light poles or whatever, right?

And I was pretty daz confused. I

freaking ate the steering wheel and um was probably had some serious dwell time there, if not completely unconscious for a few seconds. My butt's like, "Hey, hey, you know, get up." And you know,

shaking it off, trying to get my wits about me, you know, and uh, you know, I I heard the rounds hitting the car.

We're in a level seven armored BMW, you know, and um, so, you know, it wasn't uncommon like we all knew what you know, the bullet hitting an armored car sounded like, especially from like back

in the triple canopy days, like when we were rolling around in, you know, with three and four suburbans in Iraq, right?

Like we were just a moving target. We

used to get chewed up all the [ __ ] time. Like if you told Yeah. Right. Me

time. Like if you told Yeah. Right. Me

and me and Bob joked about this. Like

>> if you asked me to go back and do what we were doing with Triple Canopy, I would be like not for $10,000 a day.

Like that was dumb. What were we doing?

>> But that's just how the State Department wanted to operate and we we did it. Now

the low profile is where it at, right?

Like let's just not be noticed. You know

what I mean? Let's not get in a fight.

It's just like in CQB, man.

>> Everybody thinks you got to go in blasting and stuff. No, man. I want to go in there and I want to wake my target up, put them in zip ties and walk out without a single shot fire.

>> No, as quick as possible.

>> Let's be quiet, man. Silence, not

violence, you know. And if it is silence and to give a little violence, then get back to silence, you know. Um, so yeah, man, we as you know, he's like, "Hey, man." You know, as SOP, everybody, you

man." You know, as SOP, everybody, you know, anybody in this community would be like, "Hey, man. You know, you take fire, drive, drive, drive. Get the hell off the X. if you can't freaking use a vehicle as cover, fight back best as you

can and bound to safety. And he did, man. It's like, "Hey, man. We're

man. It's like, "Hey, man. We're

hardpointing. We're going right there to that door right there. That shop right there." And he described, "Okay, cool.

there." And he described, "Okay, cool.

Ready? Ready." Pop the doors. Of course,

he's on the side of the bad guys. And

it's it's a I don't know 30 35 meters to the sidewalk because it's three lanes. It's ma major highway.

Traffic everywhere, dude. It's a

afternoon, right? It's not like it's just us and them. There's regular

everyday people. Lot of traffic and you know they mind their own business you know gunfight you know they would stop turn around sometimes they drive right through it or run right through it

>> you know um and they're like they don't want to be in the middle of this gunfight you know. Well, anyway, as you know, kind of the SOP, just the way we were set, um, you know, I would come out

and take the hood since I was driver and he would come around and take the trunk.

Well, after a couple of rounds, uh, over the hood cuz I, you know, that little group of guys, they were, they w they weren't sure. They weren't sure. They

weren't sure. They weren't sure. They

were like testing us and they were shooting.

>> They didn't even know, >> right? They just weren't sure what they

>> right? They just weren't sure what they were dealing with. They were also kind of surprised or like you could, you know, like at least I think they were kind of like looking for the rest of us like how did what are these two retards

doing?

>> Yeah.

>> And uh so they were they were and they were young young guys you know they're just a local dudes hanging out like think about it I guess like you know in the corner the corner the dude slinging the rock he ain't the boss right?

They're kind of like that the local you know sitting on the sidewalk thugs you know not the main man not the not the boss. And so they're young, you know,

boss. And so they're young, you know, and they got their AKs because they all got their AKs. And um anyway, so you

know, I realized that there's no fully automatic gunfire and he's got a SAW, right? Saw is a beltfed fully

SAW, right? Saw is a beltfed fully automatic weapon, right? Lightweight

little weapon. Shoots 5.56 just like M4.

And um nothing. And I like kind of look his doors open. And those level seven cars are really kind of hard to see through the glass. It's very rainbowy and stuff like that. It's hard to see in just because of coatings and stuff like

that.

>> And I look and I see his foot in the um in his like in his seat. He's laying on the other side of the car as soon as he popped the door around, hit him here,

exited here, and it actually hit me in the back. I never felt it. The only

the back. I never felt it. The only

reason I know that is because I mean I still have the armor. It still has the bullet in it and it rattles and there's blood splatter, you know, and it's not

mine. And at no other point for the rest

mine. And at no other point for the rest of the afternoon was any other way I'd have gotten blood on my back.

Anyway, so you know, I did the best I could kind of suppress those zoos. I ran

around and I grabbed him. And like I said, man, even with Sean, I talked about the comedy of errors. So many

lessons learned that day, at least for me. And so I'm dragging him around the

me. And so I'm dragging him around the tent of the car and of course I'm kind of looking where I'm going and like I said, man, dudes are shooting at me and it's sporadic. It's not effective or at

it's sporadic. It's not effective or at least it's not accurate, right? Anytime

someone shoots at you, it's it's effective fire. It's going to affect you

effective fire. It's going to affect you some way, >> but it wasn't accurate, right? Rounds

aren't you hitting next to me. It's one

thing for a round to crack >> near you, but it's when it like hits and like you get spall off the concrete or a wall like, "Okay, that's accurate fire, right?" And I wasn't getting that just

right?" And I wasn't getting that just yet. I could see the dude. So I'm

yet. I could see the dude. So I'm

dragging him and like his foot got caught on the muffler cuz I rounded the corner a little too tight and right and like I'm kind of looking where I'm going and and I slip and fell. He land sits in

my he just drops in my lap and um freaking these guys are getting a little bolster or whatever. actually cuz you know his gun slung on him and I picked it up, gave a burst, got up, started

dragging him again across the median which kind of sucked cuz the median is like 18 in high you know like when we hit it and that like it the car all up slammed us around

>> and um back then as a driver I would typically typically wear my seat belt but since we had just got do done doing a CTR I had popped that seat belt off to go into the neighborhood just in case

Right. I didn't want to be wearing a

Right. I didn't want to be wearing a seatelt if I had to get out of the car.

So when we hit that meeting and that [ __ ] I wasn't I didn't have my seatelt on. And that was kind of our SOP. We

on. And that was kind of our SOP. We

would leave it up to drivers, but typically speaking, drivers wear a seat belt. Well, anyway, so like I said, man,

belt. Well, anyway, so like I said, man, I had eaten [ __ ] freaking um and you know, still getting my wits about me.

And anyway, so as I'm dragging him across the street, there's [ __ ] cars honking or horn at me and [ __ ] and bullets flying, right? Like I probably

was at bigger risk of getting killed by getting hit by a car going across those next three lanes of traffic than any other thing, man. Cuz you know, if you've ever been in an Arab country,

freaking they drive wild and aggressive.

>> There's no traffic lights.

>> Yeah. If you like their all their cars are wrinkled up, freaking insurance ain't a thing. Freaking they just run into each other. Like like if literally you can be sitting at a stoplight and the light turns green, if the dude in

front of you doesn't go in me, they just bump you, right? So here I am trying to drag my butt across the street and and I already knew it's expired, man. It was

it was very obvious freaking like eyes open and all that [ __ ] And uh so anyway, get across the street and freaking I slipped again and fell down. Um and I kind of took a little bit

down. Um and I kind of took a little bit of a stand right there. I grabbed his his rifle, kind of rolled around and um I was like I did about a 200 round burst. I almost melted a bel barrel off

burst. I almost melted a bel barrel off that saw. Um and that got them dudes

that saw. Um and that got them dudes attention like cuz now I'm putting accurate fire on their asses at probably about 80 maybe 90 meters at this point.

So pretty damn close, right?

uh if you don't meters is yards, you know, just under a football field, you know, close, man. Like close enough you it's it's real. You know,

>> people never can understand the concept of how close that actually is to until like >> you like 100 yards on the field feels super long, but then you go to like a golf course or something and you're like, "Holy fuck."

>> Well, and you know, frankly, man, it wasn't like it was my first [ __ ] gunfight. You know what I mean? I had

gunfight. You know what I mean? I had

gotten in my first gunfight [ __ ] over 10 years before that.

>> Yeah.

>> You know what I mean? So that part wasn't scary, you know, was like, "Okay, man. I'm going to move." And at this

man. I'm going to move." And at this point, I'm starting to make a plan like, "What do I do, you know? Okay, cool. I'm

going to get in here, secure this hardpoint, call for help." So, I go in freaking and uh shut the door behind me.

The store clerk, he actually went out the front door, which was where the gunfire was coming from. The gun fire come, which I thought was weird, but he ran out. Was like going down the he was

ran out. Was like going down the he was gone. And uh it was just like a little

gone. And uh it was just like a little like a convenience store. remember they,

you know, they had like your uh little tiger drinks and all that stuff in there and all the little, you know, fancy rappers and everything. And then it was kind of like more like um in the back, I guess, was a little more like a grocery

store, but not much deeper than this room here, you know. Um and then a doorway into his home and then and then, you know, um >> more and more buildings or whatever. And

so just inside of that next doorway, there was a stairway upstairs and a rug.

I rolled my buddy up. I took all his [ __ ] and it was kind of like I could see out the front door, but now my I'm narrowed, right? So they're they're

narrowed, right? So they're they're coming. Um so I took his, you know, his

coming. Um so I took his, you know, his grenades, his pistol mags, freaking his PDM, um pursuit deterrent munition. We

still had them at that time. And that's

basically like a little mine you throw behind you. Little strings pop out. And

behind you. Little strings pop out. And

it's not a big explosion. It is a pursuit deterrent munition. Not like

it's not that powerful. Um, but it's a little explosion if you hit one of the trip wires.

>> So, I took his and tossed it at the door. I was like, "All right, well, I

door. I was like, "All right, well, I start moving out." And like I said, I rolled him up in a rug and put him underneath that stairwell and you know,

like not well. I mean, kind of hidden, but not really. Right. I'm in a hurry now.

>> Yeah.

>> And I know I'm in a hurry. I'm like,

"This ain't good." So, I go out back and it was kind of funny, Sean. And it's

like um two two stories, but it kind of was like this. But as I climbed up here and then climbed up here, that first story didn't encompass or didn't go all the way down the building. So while I

was up there and there's no knee wall around it. And so I'm up there, you

around it. And so I'm up there, you know, I break out my VS7 panel and I go I would put my cell phone on the Velcro right here.

>> Right. But I had left my cell phone on the Velcro we put on the dash of the car, which as a driver was so stupid.

But typically I'm the T and I would put like my hand mic on we like literally just take a strip of sticky Velcro and put it across the dash, >> right? You could just throw things on

>> right? You could just throw things on there, right? And it would stick. You

there, right? And it would stick. You

don't lose it.

>> I mean, frankly, my truck is similar today. I was going to say like a bad,

today. I was going to say like a bad, >> you know, it works. Um,

>> so yeah, man. freaking

I I was up on that roof and so no cell phone and I'm like what the [ __ ] man I can't get anybody on the radio so I open my radio pouch and that's when I realized you know I taken a round which

was kind of cool I still have the it was embitter um and uh it the radio stopped the round it didn't my plate didn't freaking like the round still in the

radio it rattles um and I was like ah [ __ ] me I don't have any comps Okay, what do I do? My first thought was, I'm

going to run up the road to the southernmost bridge. It'll take me

southernmost bridge. It'll take me across and it's not that far to the air base. I'll be fine. I can do that. It's

base. I'll be fine. I can do that. It's

probably a three- mile run. I will just get out of here. I'll be all right.

Well, the way I kind of got channelized that they kind of took that from me and uh so I start moving through buildings outside and I mean it's a it's a wreck, man. So, I've got like, you know, five

man. So, I've got like, you know, five total M4 mags. Now, I've got his saw and what's left of that ammo and like we call them nut sacks. Um, like 80 to 100

round little, um, little soft pouches.

And I had snatched one of them. Well,

um, as I was on that roof, I laid out my VS7 panel, my orange panel, cuz I was going to call and ask for, you know, a helicopter to come, you know, support me and and maybe even pick me up. And at

the time the Kyas, they're like the conventional army's version of the the um uh little birds, uh great little aircraft, whatever. And you know, they

aircraft, whatever. And you know, they were always patrolling Mosal. So I was like, I'll just get one of those guys, you know, be able to hop in with them and be out of here in minutes. No coms.

Um and then I start taking a couple shots and cracking by me. I was like, I [ __ ] this [ __ ] So I go to run off the roof, man. Like I said, that second roof

roof, man. Like I said, that second roof was here and I missed it.

>> Like the half double.

>> I missed it, dude. And I hit the ground feet face, right? And I land on his saw cuz I've

right? And I land on his saw cuz I've got it in front of me and [ __ ] I've got my M4 running back and dude, all that I mean, I'm just a mess. Just like I got

hit by a car, man. It hurt.

>> And uh the alleyway was tiny between these two buildings. kind of like um you know they're almost like cartoonish little vans where like if me and you got in it we'd be driving like they're

they're they're smaller than the average sidebyside UTV right but they're very popular in the Middle East and so like a an alleyway about that big there's trash cans and trash I mean it's Mosul of

course there's trash on the in the alleyway and um anyhow it's it's probably I don't know 10 maybe 15 meters to the end of the alleyway and only about five this way and I'm like and all

of a sudden this dude ran like and I was like, "Oh [ __ ] you have got to get up.

>> Get up, man." Right. Like cuz I'm I mean I already was pretty concussed from the car crash.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, so that that heart we were talking about earlier where it's like you got to dictate to your body like >> Yes. Got to go.

>> Yes. Got to go.

>> Shake it off. And I got up and I moved to that corner. Well, the first dude ran by, never looked at me. The second dude runs by like double takes. He saw me and I moved to the corner and he came running because the last time he saw me

I was on my knees.

>> Well, now I'm saying the corner moving in his direction. He came around the corner and ran right out of my muzzle, you know. Um Yeah. So dumped him. Oh,

you know. Um Yeah. So dumped him. Oh,

now everybody knows where I'm at again.

And uh freaking you know this sucks because my M4 was suppressed but assault wasn't. Yeah.

wasn't. Yeah.

>> So I went loud and I finally was like, "You know what? You got to ditch this [ __ ] thing. It's just too loud." and

I was mostly out of ammo for it anyway.

And um so I stuffed it underneath this like little mini dumpster or whatever cuz in my mind, you know, I don't want to leave that for the bad guys. And I

threw the nut sack uh down the alleyway and um stripped the drum off and threw it in the little dumpster that was next to it. I was like, you know, at least

to it. I was like, you know, at least maybe they won't kill me with, you know, one of our guns.

>> Yeah.

>> And like I said, you know, at no point was I like on the rev limiter, like my brain wasn't working, but I knew I was behind the curve. Um, and like I said, it just felt like I like a dream where

you can't get away from whatever's chasing you. So anyway, I I'm going in

chasing you. So anyway, I I'm going in and out of buildings and I'm having little tiny engagements here and there.

And at first, man, I you know, was I was shooting way too much 5.56, right? Like,

you know, a lot of suppressive type fire stuff that I should not have been doing, right? Because I was giving myself up

right? Because I was giving myself up and I wasn't hitting bad guys. So, I

finally started conserving um and to the point which I got kind of light and I was trying to move through these there were houses. I'm in a residential

were houses. I'm in a residential neighborhood at this point because I'm off the road now. And um and I don't have any water. That was another lesson learned. Now, in my body armor, I have

learned. Now, in my body armor, I have like this little uh it's a >> I have a so smart Hey, throw that.

>> Yeah, I do a um it's like a point 3/4 um liter tiny camo bag and it'll fit in my body armor and I never drink off of it.

It is for emergency only. Um because I wound up drinking water out of a faucet in this these this fell's house and I don't know if this the stress and all that but yeah I had the [ __ ] the next

day.

>> Yeah.

>> But I was I mean again June and I bro I'm dying.

>> Yeah.

>> And at this point I might be >> 12 15 minutes into it maybe you know um as at least the alleyway I drank water probably you know somewhat somewhat later. some of the last houses. And um

later. some of the last houses. And um

yeah, man, it was to the point which like inside freaking I would go to pistol, you know, to protect myself and outside trying to save rifle ammo. And

um I threw my frags at one point. I was

trying to come up go up the stairs and like, you know, there are stairs. It's

not like international code. There's no

railings or anything. So I'm going up the stairways, but I had to come in the room and then go back up the stairway.

And so the guys were coming in. I heard

them coming in behind me and I dropped the frag right there in the room I was in. And that [ __ ] rocked me. I was like,

in. And that [ __ ] rocked me. I was like, "Oh." And I had thrown frags plenty of

"Oh." And I had thrown frags plenty of times before, but it just caught me something about, you know, the way it deflected and I was just like, "Oo." And

at that point, it kind of charged me. I

was like, "I got to go." And like it was like I was kind of running from this frag that I had just thrown. It's like

it's kind of a weird reaction, but um so yeah, man, I was getting pretty light and at this point, you know, the the flag

had gone up. Um I did not think to set off our Blue Force tracker, the emergency beacon. We didn't do it.

emergency beacon. We didn't do it.

Neither one of us stood it, >> which was dumb. Another mistake. Like I

said, man, a lot of lessons learned that day. It's not like it was my first

day. It's not like it was my first [ __ ] gig, but it was the first time I was that [ __ ] up right off the beginning, right? And I had a dead

beginning, right? And I had a dead buddy, you know?

>> It was it was a first. Um,

so anyway, I um finally reached like the marsh cuz now my plan had become get to the river.

>> I get to the river, I can swim down to bridge one.

>> I was going to say was the worry in that town at that point too that they're like trying to tunnel you like when you're >> Yeah. You know, they were looking for me

>> Yeah. You know, they were looking for me and, you know, again, not knowing exactly how many dudes and, you know, their neighborhood's across the street, so now they're out of their neighborhood, too. Yeah.

neighborhood, too. Yeah.

>> And as soon as the coyas came on board, um, you know, it definitely was was much lighter. It was almost like I feel like

lighter. It was almost like I feel like a couple guys got left behind and now they don't know what to do cuz like I said, man, they were youngans, man. You

know, running through random.

>> Yeah. You know what I mean? They're just

looking. They're hoping to kill an American, you know, >> or whatever they thought I was.

And I think that was part of the confusion because we were all, you know, hygiene up as we would call it. Let's

get hedged up.

>> And you're only two and for them that's probably like >> it was, it probably saved my life. Had I

been in a Humvey wearing multicam or ACUs or whatever, they'd have killed the [ __ ] out of us >> right off the bat. You know what I mean?

They'd have come hard with RPGs or something most likely or PK instead of like, what in the hell are we looking at?

>> Yeah.

>> So anyways, yeah, man. Um, I got out in the marsh and one of the coyotes flew up, man. and freaking like dude he was

up, man. and freaking like dude he was right on top of me and you know the guy gives me a thumbs up or whatever and like I mean I can see the rivets you know in the sheet metal in that

helicopter and he kind of lifted off and um the 50 cows the moduses that like on a Humvee is like boom boom boom boom boom boom on those hilos they're turned

up they're like much faster slicker right >> um he rolled out of there man and started shooting his partner came in and dropped at least two out of three of the

2.75 inch pockets that he was carrying.

Um, and then sure enough, man, that striker came around the corner and I was probably 100 meters from the water. I

could have ditched my gear and just ran that striker rounded the corner, man.

And I was like, cuz I I heard it coming.

This big diesel, you know, tank, but I don't know what it is cuz I didn't see it. I'm like, "Oh shit." You know what?

it. I'm like, "Oh shit." You know what?

You know, what is this? Is a jingle truck? What? You know, is it

truck? What? You know, is it reinforcements? that [ __ ] striker

reinforcements? that [ __ ] striker around in the corner and I was like >> the adrenaline dump had to be >> and I did and I literally just was like,

"Hey." And uh yeah, man. Freaking that

"Hey." And uh yeah, man. Freaking that

was kind of the end of it. I was so exhausted.

I had just been on the rev limiter. Um

you know, even the next day I was so [ __ ] sore my muscles hurt. like I had I don't know like I had gone and done the worst sprint farlet workout after

not running for 6 months. my body hurt so bad and I'm sure it was partly due cuz I've got in a car crash and jumped off fell off a roof, >> you know? Um and and you know just like

other things you don't think about like during that kind of stuff like you'll run into things like you know backing up running to a wall you know or the doorway or whatever you know what I mean like a lot of people don't you know CQB

that you see and stuff on um >> a lot of times you know in the in the shoe houses when there's no furniture and that kind of stuff like it's pretty and it's simple and it looks nice but in real life when there's stuff everywhere

you run into things you trip you fall things happen. dudes in the weirdest

things happen. dudes in the weirdest [ __ ] spot possible or whatever coming from a random angle and you're just like >> and when you're by yourself, man, it ain't CQB anymore.

>> You know, there's no points of domination and clearing sectors. It's

just do the best you can. And at the time, there wasn't, you know, a lot of um, you know, singleton CQB, you know, we were still the whole in that idea, how many people does it take to clear a room? Two. Okay, cool. Well, if you only

room? Two. Okay, cool. Well, if you only got one.

>> Mhm. Well, you know, so like I said, this instance was not the only instance that a singleton or a pair of dudes got in a tick. And it did kind of raise our

awareness that, hey man, we need to start training this and think about it.

How can you do close fighting by yourself? Was that more SAD specific or

yourself? Was that more SAD specific or did that even extend into >> So it was all happening kind of in parallel like um you know well you know in some of their training GRS was

already doing it and they didn't really know they were doing it or at least not it so a very common thing in GRS would be your principal is in a meeting room the two GRS guys are outside principal

calls for help one dude goes in one dude stays with the car so he's by himself he's going to go in and recover so there some >> but it's kind of like

>> yeah there was some demand for that type of training but it wasn't structured for like the singleton wa operator type person >> mission gone wrong we got to

>> right you know um it it just it wasn't structured so we started training it >> um you know using sims playing with it >> you know we tried all kinds of stuff too

you know like some of it was kind of John Wiki you know for lack of better terms like you know you one-handed a lot of point blank stuff, you know, and um and and basically our conclusion was

it's still like regular CQB. You still

have to clear your corners as you go through. You don't go to a point of

through. You don't go to a point of domination. You go wherever you think is

domination. You go wherever you think is best. Um and so like in CQB, you hear

best. Um and so like in CQB, you hear guys say like, "Oh, this is a thinking man's game." No, when you're by

man's game." No, when you're by yourself, it's a lot of thinking. And

but it's knowing when to get on the speed. Um cuz we even tried like all

speed. Um cuz we even tried like all right we're going to put a bad guy in that room and I'm just going to sprint through the room. I mean like we tried all kinds of silly stuff.

>> Yeah.

>> Um you know it's funny like if you go back and and you know I I know two plank owners uh of the unit or Delta >> and I was sitting with those guys one

time chatting and they're both you know in their mid70s now. You know they literally were well one was in the first election in 1977. I think it was 1977 the other was in 78. So they were

original unit members, right? And they

were telling me about stuff they tried with CQB. Like

with CQB. Like >> one of them was talking about how like they would put a dude with a shotgun in front of the door and he'd like take a knee and they would breach the door and if there was anything in there, he's got a shotgun, right? Just, you know,

because >> they were learning. So you know, not to say we went through like that extent of of, you know, that turned into POD and all that type of of of CQB, but we did

we we practiced it. Um, and we put it in the shoe house. We put it with sim guns, you know, so we could prove it, not just it be a theory. Like, hey, does this work when we're shooting at each other?

And you know, basically what we the conclusion is when it comes to singleton CQB is it's like it's [ __ ] It's not a good thing.

>> Yeah.

>> However, right, who rolls around all the time by themselves that might have to run in a building with a gun? Police officers.

So, that's been kind of a cool thing is over the years I've been able to share it with a lot of those guys.

>> Oh, sure. And um you know because like let's face it man it'd be great to have the SWAT team show up but when you're in your cruiser and you're the first responder right you may find yourself doing CQB by yourself.

>> Yeah >> right. You go up to a door knock on the

>> right. You go up to a door knock on the door and you hear screams. It's a domestic. Right. Well you're going in.

domestic. Right. Well you're going in.

You're going to wait for backup. I mean

well maybe for that one cop that didn't go in uh on that school shooting right.

Hey man. Not everybody's cut out for gun toteen work, you know.

>> Mhm.

>> Um yeah, that whole story sucked. But

>> the cop thing is a very interesting point though, too, cuz like the others >> people don't >> like I've noticed this a lot, especially at high level sports. When you play

someone worse than you, they're harder to play than someone that is also good because they just do weird >> random [ __ ] Exactly. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, same. Yeah, same [ __ ]

good point. Yeah, same. Yeah, same [ __ ] it kind of a mix on both solo CQB you guys are operating a bit different and that allows you to have a little bit of an advantage because they're thinking like oh they're going to bust in this way and you come out that

>> but then also you guys working through it especially for a cop it's like now they can actually go through some right steps that no matter what that person's doing they're prepared versus if they go that traditional training >> and the guy's you know laying in the

prone position for some reason staring at the door it's like you're not going to be prepared for that >> you're just doing normal and it's uh >> some of the tactics and techniques that we play with and work with like if I put

them on the internet, people be like, "You're out of your mind." But you know what?

There's one thing that we came to conclusion and there is only one rule and it's win.

>> Mhm.

>> So I don't care if you do a cartwheel, lethal weapon roll, freaking you know, whatever. You know, if you get rounds on

whatever. You know, if you get rounds on your threat and you go home, then you know what? Your techniques were at least

know what? Your techniques were at least good enough for that day. M

>> and that was a little bit of that realization is, you know, and I had already kind of knew that a little bit cuz like, yeah, man, there's CQB and then there's comes sometimes when you break the rules of CQB to survive.

>> Um, so, you know, that's another misconception. A lot of, you know, Timmyy's out there, you know, like who've done perfect CQB in a shoe house. It's not always perfect. You

house. It's not always perfect. You

know, you know, can you shoot through a wall? Well, the bad guy can shoot

wall? Well, the bad guy can shoot through a wall, so can you.

>> Mhm. He's like, "Well, you didn't P ID your target." Well, I mean, if there's

your target." Well, I mean, if there's bullets coming through that wall, I'm fairly certain whoever's sending in my direction, right? I'm in a bad guy land,

direction, right? I'm in a bad guy land, right? You know, I'm not a cop. I know

right? You know, I'm not a cop. I know

if I go into a target, what's going to, you know, I mean, it's not like I randomly kicked in a door, right? I know

that bad guys are on site. So, yeah,

there's sometimes you do some wonky [ __ ] >> Um, and it ain't wrong if you win, you know? Um, if I was here to tell you

know? Um, if I was here to tell you that, you know, I had my sights on target every time I ever pulled the trigger, I'd be lying. You know, I have

stuck my gun in a doorway and fired into the corner because I saw a dude run that direction. And instead of exposed myself

direction. And instead of exposed myself to him, you know, I went click click.

Oddly enough, out of like 12 rounds, I only hit him with one shot, but I changed his behavior. Yeah.

you know, um, and like I said, man, freaking, you know, a lot of people don't want to talk about that because they go, "Oh, it's [ __ ] You would never do that." And I'm like, >> "More is crazy.

>> You might not never do that." But I have done it. So, oh, oh, oh, you weren't

done it. So, oh, oh, oh, you weren't even in the military. You didn't deploy.

How old are you? You're 41, dude. You

had the last 20 years to join us in war, but now you're [ __ ] sharpshooting me.

Whatever, dude. Meet me in my house. You

can put me in the hospital. Give me 10 grand.

And you know that's the thing right like you know that's just how I entertain myself nowadays when people talk [ __ ] I'm just like whatever man you want to fist fight >> we can do it >> and part of me like you know admittedly

you know like cuz like teaching some falcon at 20th group or sift stick or whatever I talk [ __ ] to the young guys man cuz you got a 26-y old brand new green beret he's a tough feeling good just ask him you know he knows he's

tough he was told he's tough right he watched Rambo and I'll talk [ __ ] to him I'll be like take my helmet off be like all Let's do this, man. You want to get

some? Let's get some. I'm almost 50,

some? Let's get some. I'm almost 50, bro. You know. Oh, no. No. Not here.

bro. You know. Oh, no. No. Not here.

We're doing this on the gravel.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, you you thought this was going to be fun. No, no, no. We're all going home

fun. No, no, no. We're all going home sore tomorrow, bro. And on the inside, you on the outside, I try to exude confidence. Like, all right, I'll do

confidence. Like, all right, I'll do this. I mean, don't get me wrong, man.

this. I mean, don't get me wrong, man.

You know, I grip a little redneck and I like to fight as much as the next guy.

And, you know, I realize I'm getting a little older, but you know, hey, man, you wanna you want to spar a little bit?

we can spar a little bit. Um, you know, so on the outside I'm always like, man, you know, like I need to exude confidence here.

>> On the inside I'm like, please God, don't let this young buck want to actually fight me.

>> Dude, I explain to people all the time, dude, MMA, like jiu-jitsu and stuff, and I'm like, >> if there's anyone that ever tells you they're going into any of these scenarios and they're not nervous or not scared, I'm like, they're [ __ ] lying.

Cuz they're either lying or they actually haven't ever done it before.

cuz >> yeah, >> doesn't matter how many times, you know, you've been hit in the face, doesn't matter how many times that you've done this or that, >> it still hurts every time >> and it still is nerve-wracking every time you're going into it. You know, I'm

sure you can attest, especially >> the one um funny thing is like a guy that just fought recently UFC. He's um

>> uh Benoy St. Denise and he was um part of French special forces and so obviously, you know, doing a lot of highle [ __ ] and then he goes in and fights and they were talking about it.

They're like, "That's probably the one job that you're toning down." Like

you're going from military to UFC. It's

like that that's can go one to one where you still have that adrenaline kick up.

And they were saying they're like, "Oh, I don't think he he probably doesn't get nervous before fights." And I was like, "I bet you he does." You know, cuz >> probably >> when you guys you >> I tell you, man, like I'm probably way less apprehensive freaking when I got,

you know, my boys and we're going to hit a target. Like mine's pretty clear,

a target. Like mine's pretty clear, >> you know? Um, but yeah, like a a one-on-one freaking like, "Hey, let's get it on fist fight." I'm like, "This sucks. I don't have a gun." You know

sucks. I don't have a gun." You know what I mean? Um, and that's why we always joke like I can't go to prison. I

might be a tough guy out here in special forces, but in prison I'm a [ __ ] you know? I can't I don't look good behind

know? I can't I don't look good behind bars, much less, you know, behind bars with, you know, you know, a pimp. Yeah.

You know, like, yeah, we might be tough guys out here, but there's there's always somebody more bad, somebody tougher, you know. Let me ask, so you know, whether it's your time with um

obviously like SF groups or SAD or even Triple Canopy or whatever, did you have a close encounter, I guess, with that that was kind of that type of moment where you had to mentally kind of

overcome it? Obviously,

overcome it? Obviously, you know, kind of the solo, everything you just walked us through could fall on that camp, but just an example of that where you really overcome it because I think it's an important thing for a lot

of people to see that again that human body that you can lock in and get over a lot of >> man. I don't know. Um,

>> man. I don't know. Um,

not really. Like I can't ever say a time that I was really afraid. Like even that day when I probably should have been, I was I just felt behind the curve. Like I

was just struggling to get ahead. I just

got to get ahead, right? Like I just didn't have time to be afraid, I guess, would be a I mean, I don't want to sound like some kind of [ __ ] cliche where like you control your emotions. I mean,

of course, that's part of it, but like I said, it wasn't my first fight.

>> Mhm.

>> And I think maybe that's I really thought about this, but I'm like, okay, well, what about my first gunfight? You know, we got ambushed in

gunfight? You know, we got ambushed in Afghanistan, very first rotation. We

were one of the we were the first US military unit to be ambushed since Vietnam, right? Like in a real conflict

Vietnam, right? Like in a real conflict or some [ __ ] like that. I don't know. Um

it was a big deal to my team leaders and all them because, you know, they're the ones writing citations and [ __ ] I don't [ __ ] know.

>> I was I was basically a private on SF team. I mean, I'm the baby E6, you know.

team. I mean, I'm the baby E6, you know.

Well, anyway, we get chewed up pretty good. Um luckily, not for them. our

good. Um luckily, not for them. our

Afghanis running a vehicle ahead of mine and then it was uh American vehicle behind us, you know, rest of my teammates and then it was like an Afghan vehicle and then the trail US vehicle

and we rolled right into a [ __ ] ambush.

And even then it was um not really like being afraid, it was confusion. Like it

it was kind of weird because it started off with a you know a single shot, not a machine gun, right? and it was like >> I looked at my warrant. I was like, "What the [ __ ] was that?"

And then it erupted. They kicked it off.

It was probably three, maybe four seconds between that single AK shot and then a PKM lighting up. And we're like, "Oh shit." And they're chewing up the

"Oh shit." And they're chewing up the dudes in front of us, right? And there's

seven or eight Afghanis in the back of that Hilux plus, you know, like five in the cab, you know? It's like, how many Afghanis can you put in a Hilux? You can

always fit one more. There's always room for one more, right? How many Rangers can you put in a Humvee? One more. Um,

and so they were getting pretty chewed up. A round that really got our

up. A round that really got our attention hit um the the B-pillar between the front and the rear and went

through my headrest. And it was kind of funny because my interpreter, I mean, he grown up with an AK, but my team starter even wouldn't let him carry one, which

never really made much sense to me. It's

like another dude with a gun. That's

cool. Let's give him some training cuz we would train him, right? And then not let him carry a gun.

>> And it was kind of funny because as soon as we took fire, man, he was sitting in the back seat, he like reached up and grabbed and pulled up and like got right in my face right here. He's like, "I told you I needed a gun."

Right? So, it's that kind of crazy [ __ ] That kind of [ __ ] is kind of comical, at least later, you know. Um, at the time I was like, "Shut the [ __ ] up." You know, I didn't even say anything. Like, you

ain't got time to talk to you, dude.

We're in a fight, right? Like, you're an interpreter. Be quiet. We don't need you

interpreter. Be quiet. We don't need you right now.

uh you know what even any of that and so you know um I can't say but because the way that ended so quickly the way it ended or whatever we countered it went

well um I will say this that was when I first started learning that you know the military is not what I thought it was all said and done because of actions

that day and all I did was file our SOP I was giving an award that I never thought I deserved when other dudes and other teams had

done way cooler [ __ ] I really truly think somebody wanted to be able to say, "Well, we have the youngest Green Beret with this award, right?" Like, so I got this award that I

right?" Like, so I got this award that I just kind of look at like I didn't go to the award ceremony. I got in trouble for that. It was my protest.

that. It was my protest.

I've always been a leadership challenge.

>> Uh so anyway, um but that that was that.

But as far as like I think because of the way it happened and you like it was the beginning of Afghanistan. We weren't

wearing helmets or body armor or anything. We didn't have body armor with

anything. We didn't have body armor with us at this point. Like they shipped us to us later. Like we didn't filled with no body armor or none of that [ __ ] Um I mean because we were carrying heavy ass rug sacks and stuff, you know? So like

that time we were in thin skin vehicles, right? Body armor was for CQB, not for

right? Body armor was for CQB, not for being out in the field. Um so it wasn't like that. So, I can't ever say there

like that. So, I can't ever say there was any time any any ticks or whatever, especially on offensive operations, right? Like, you've got the upper hand,

right? Like, you've got the upper hand, you know what I mean? I'm not thinking that I'm going to get shot. So, there's

really nothing to be afraid of.

>> So, I guess that's a long-winded way of saying like, no, I mean, maybe some apprehension, like going in like, man, this is dumb. We shouldn't be doing this type apprehension, but never like never

like fear.

So, you know, like the uh on killing and on combat books, you know, and he talks about the different scales and how if you're um you know, if you're on the rev limiter, you know, there's like the different levels and once you're in the

black, you can't feel your fingers, you can't hear. You know, I don't know I've

can't hear. You know, I don't know I've ever experienced that. Uh at least not on those levels. Um

and I have plenty of plenty of other buddies who will say the same. They're

like, I didn't have never experienced that. and then other folks talk about it

that. and then other folks talk about it happening. So, I don't think it's a

happening. So, I don't think it's a one-sizefitit all, you know, and and again, you know, I guess in my situations, I just didn't really have time to [ __ ]

you know, be afraid or at least not not to the level of being shut down, you know, >> and I've I've never even seen it except for in a couple of Iraqis

um got a little tick, man. And they were like, "Fuck this shit." And they left, right? He ran out of the house like

right? He ran out of the house like turned around like like met them, you know, like where y'all going, you know what I mean? Like should I go with you?

And they were just like screw this [ __ ] you know?

>> Yeah.

>> Um but other than that, yeah, man, I can't really say I was I've ever been like and I I you know, I've never been afraid to jump out of an airplane. You

know, I make jokes like, "Hope my shoot opens." Of course, I say a little prayer

opens." Of course, I say a little prayer like, "All right, God, you know, if my shoot doesn't open, could I please burn in completely?" You know what I mean?

in completely?" You know what I mean?

Like, I don't want to be all messed up.

>> Yeah.

you know, and you make jokes like that, you know. Um, but like like I said, my

you know. Um, but like like I said, my dad didn't raise me to be fearful. He

didn't raise me to be like prideful or >> I mean, I guess I'm not even sure how to say it or like overly confident, I guess.

>> Just kind of accepting >> just right. Just do your job. Just go.

It's a job. Do your job.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh, a very good friend of mine named Jake, uh, he's a machine man. He's stud.

um you know he sees he's he's one of the best operators if not not if not the best right I mean the dude's a stud he's a soldier of soldiers right like does soldiering and he'll tell you that and

he's >> you know he's an Arkansas boy so he kind of talks like this you know and you know it's the world is simple to him and it's like well we just got a job to do that's

it that's the way he looks at it and I think he and I that's why he and I are bros cuz we see the world in kind of a simple way like that. You know, it's just some dudes on that side wanting to

fight with some dudes on this side and here we are.

>> I mean, I wish I had a better way of explaining it.

>> I don't know.

>> Well, this is the reality, too. I mean,

I've had, like I said, with Dale being on and everything, he like met guys that when he was contracting, he met guys that he was combating literally a couple years earlier at like this meeting or

whatever. And he's like, it's guys doing

whatever. And he's like, it's guys doing jobs. He's like, you know, you can't

jobs. He's like, you know, you can't hate on obviously there's circumstances like we were discussing earlier where they're very bad people, but he's like, you know, when it's another guy both

doing this, it's like at some level you kind of respect and understand it.

You're doing your job.

>> That's what we were we were talking about is like, you know, there was there's definitely different levels of bad guys, right? Like I mean, if you ask the average dude we're fighting who the bad guys is, well, they're going to tell

you us, right? like the US is here for what you know >> um >> and I think that's you know we were talking about empathy being able to see things from other people's points of

view and you know I was always aware you know that we're the imperial power we invited a we we we caused this problem like Iraq was a secure nation a thriving

nation no crime um not a secular state not crazy jihad or anything and you know let's face it man like we love to go after dictators but dictators are the best adversaries.

They're predictable. They care about their power, so they're predictable. Uh

had we just threatened Saddam, like he would have done whatever we wanted him to, but you know, we needed to turn off his oil and the Bush family had a vendetta to settle,

>> you know. So, you know, I mean, I always tried to respect him.

They were fighting for what they believed in. But then like we were

believed in. But then like we were talking, you know, off camerara. Yeah,

there's definitely like a different level like some of the alicada in Iraq or Zakawis and stuff like that, man.

They were extremists.

Pardon me. And I think that's what scares me about extremism in America.

When people start calling for, you know, violence and death to their enemies and then dehumanizing them, right? You know,

the right likes to be like, "Oh, those blue-haired freaking blah blah." I'm

like, well, they're still a human being >> and they don't, >> right? Like, or the left is like, oh,

>> right? Like, or the left is like, oh, these freaking horrible, you know, white males with their guns, you know, they they we like to say things like all the way back, you know, uh, Krauts, um, you

know, in Korea, zipperheads in Vietnam, um, you know, Charlie, you know, gooks in this war, sand inwards.

>> Mhm. I came in from a lot one night and we had got our asses handed to us and and we're lucky we didn't take casuals.

They got us. They were waiting on us and we came back in and one of my teammates was like, "These effing sand inwards

and I was like, "Ground your kid.

Have a seat."

Sat down.

And I usually would sit, you know, at a table, but he was like at the end. I

went down, I sat directly in front of him, stood at, you know, typically my little team leader seat. I was like, if I ever hear any of you, and I'm talking to him, I ever hear any of you

disrespect him like that again. You will

be on the next plane home and I'll rip your [ __ ] security clearance. Don't

you ever disrespect him again. Cuz we

disrespected him tonight and you almost got [ __ ] killed. And worse, you almost got him killed.

It was a serious conversation. I was

pissed. I was furious and um and it was it was complacency and you know complacency is infectious.

>> Mhm.

>> Um and I was pissed too because I probably had a touch of it. I let their behavior slide when I shouldn't have.

>> But I also kind of had a uh reputation for being a little hard sometimes. Um

you I was young man. I was way younger.

I didn't know how to rule with charisma.

I knew how to rule with, you know, directives and and I was tried to be really good about setting the example, you know, PT, shooting, training, you

know. Um, but yeah, man, I chewed their

know. Um, but yeah, man, I chewed their asses and him specifically. I was like, don't ever because they believe in what they're fighting for. You talking about dudes

fighting for. You talking about dudes with, you know, 12 rounds of AK and we got, you know, all the firepower on the planet. ISR, we got drones, we got

planet. ISR, we got drones, we got C130s Apaches you know, we got Ranger QRF, you know, and here these dudes are willing to fight with us. Like I said earlier, be

like, hopping in the ring with Chuck Lidell, man, I'm about to get my ass beat. And they knew it. So respect those

beat. And they knew it. So respect those dudes because most of those dudes were fighting for what they believe in. Mhm.

>> Now, like I said, that extremist like your Zarqawi type dudes, man, that were just mean and truly evil, >> that's different.

>> Did you have a character like that that you like kind of directly cross paths with or an example that really >> Not exactly. Um, we had the Syrian

sniper. He was a big deal for he was he

sniper. He was a big deal for he was he he was shooting out of trunks. He was a phenomenally trained sniper from Syria.

So, we chased him for a while. Um, and

and you know, it's just like, you know, my my hunter buddies that are, you know, in rednecks watching this, so know what I'm talking about. Like when you spot that one buck, you know, in August

before season comes in, you kind of start getting obsessed like you, you know, like he's the one, right? And you

you're not hunting for deer, you're hunting for a deer now. And then you kind of get attached to targets sometimes, especially if they slip you a couple times,

>> you know, and uh you know, so then it becomes like almost personal, right?

Like you're now you're chasing, you know, a a specific entity, right?

And any, you know, intel reports come in and this and that, right? Like he was here, he was there, we missed him by 20 minutes, right? like, you know, so that

minutes, right? like, you know, so that guy, he missed us for a couple of years.

And then based off some intel we did gather, freaking uh the Ranger Regiment rolled that dude up. Kind of cool. Um

Rainbow freaking uh actually delivered that dude's sniper rifle to President Obama.

>> No [ __ ] >> That was kind of cool because he was responsible for hurting Americans. Um,

>> yeah, >> he he Yeah, I mean that that dude was never getting interrogated. Everyone

knew how he was going to end.

>> Mhm.

>> You know what I mean? Very he had heard too many Americans. I mean, not that >> and you know, it's funny, man.

>> There's an acceptance of war, I guess, that some of us have gained over time, right? Like, hey, man, we all

right? Like, hey, man, we all volunteered, so it's part of it. We're going to lose buddies. We're going to lose Americans.

buddies. We're going to lose Americans.

And you know, earlier in my career be like, you know, oh, this [ __ ] put a bomb in and it killed Americans.

And yeah, you never lose that, but as you become more and more aware that they're fighting for what they believe in and we're the occupying force and all that kind of stuff, it's not you forgive it. It's just you don't hold that kind

it. It's just you don't hold that kind of grudge anymore.

>> Mhm.

>> You mean you're not like it's not it's not it's less motivating over time.

And so like with the Iran thing, right?

Uh no new wars. Uh, let's, you know, bomb Iran.

>> Yeah, we were talking about that in part one where it's like always seems like there's another reason, >> right?

>> Yeah. We

>> were talking about going to back in the bar room now.

>> Well, you were talking about too on Sean show. I said you mentioned this and

show. I said you mentioned this and that'd be interest >> like >> and we were talking about this offline a little bit. I said a lot of guys are

little bit. I said a lot of guys are kind of disenfranchised post career kind of looking back but you even mentioned even you guys' initial infill. You kind of felt even that

infill. You kind of felt even that initial like something, >> man. We knew going in Iraq it was

>> man. We knew going in Iraq it was [ __ ] And you know, I've got some righteous [ __ ] out there that will say, "Well, if you knew you were following unlawful orders, why didn't you?" Yeah, man. It's a little easier

you?" Yeah, man. It's a little easier said than done, especially when you're a bunch of youngans who really want to go to war >> and you don't.

>> And that's a hard thing to explain to a good person, right? Like some of us want to go to war.

>> I wanted to go to war when I was a kid, right? I wanted to be an SF dude, right?

right? I wanted to be an SF dude, right?

Of course, I can blame my dad for letting me watch Rambo when I was a little young. And um but it's hard to

little young. And um but it's hard to explain without sound like an absolute [ __ ] crazy person. You're like, you know, I know I actually enjoyed war,

right? I mean, hell,

right? I mean, hell, I listened to a prayer before going into Iraq that was all about, you know, the whole killing for Jesus and we're righteous and this and that. And it was

like, hell yeah, let's get it on. It

wasn't even my chaplain. Um

yeah, man. like, you know, there was no gas mass, no chemical, biological gear, you know, and we're going in a country that has weapons of mass destruction.

Like, we knew better. We knew it was [ __ ] cuz we were supposed to go to Somalia in the Horn of Africa and chase down ISIS, right? And then all of a sudden it got switched and oh, we're going to Iraq. Everybody was like, what?

What do you mean we're going to Iraq?

Who's going for what? Like Iraq wasn't on any anyone's radars.

>> Mhm.

And so, yeah, man, we knew. And then so looking back, right, like the estimates are anywhere between half a million and a million Iraqis died at our hands. Our

bombs, our bullets, our tanks running over kids. And because when you take a

over kids. And because when you take a bunch of conventional army kids who are 18 years old and they're getting ran into by car bombs, they shoot everything. Dude, we killed so many

everything. Dude, we killed so many people in Iraq that didn't mean to be killed. And that's why I always ask

killed. And that's why I always ask people, if you're saying Putin's a war criminal, what the [ __ ] is George Bush and again an active participant, right,

which is a, you know, a burden, I guess, you know, that I'll carry the rest of my life. At

least I know, and I can say this with 100% confidence, I've never pulled the trigger on someone that was not a combatant. My my my conscious is clear

combatant. My my my conscious is clear there. And I'll tell you, man, like with

there. And I'll tell you, man, like with the plant medicine stuff, like I gain, I was explaining it to somebody one time and uh I was like, man, the healing, right? Like being able to let go of some

right? Like being able to let go of some of the survival guilt I was carrying.

And they're like, so you just can do this and like it just erases all the bad you've done. You've got a clear

you've done. You've got a clear conscience. I was like, oh no, no, no,

conscience. I was like, oh no, no, no, no. That medicine is so much more

no. That medicine is so much more sophisticated than that. You got to earn the healing it provides. If you've done bad things, you're going to experience

and see bad things on your journey. And

it is not a guarantee that you're going to somehow just be cured of all the wrongdoing you've done in your life.

That is not how I works. I is a gift of God. It is the way best I can see it is

God. It is the way best I can see it is that I is a gift of forgiveness for yourself, a gift of forgiveness for

others. Um I know people who are abused

others. Um I know people who are abused as children by their parent or uncle or someone important in their lives and that's a betrayal right that's a different type of PTSD

right some and today everybody has trauma right but man childhood trauma man unwitting right >> that shapes you >> that shapes everything like that's who you became because of that a lot of

times >> yeah and so it is not free right what that medicine does for you it's not free um I will say you You know, it it definitely helped me. I didn't think I

had any type of PTSD. If you'd asked me back then, I like I don't I don't suffer from PTSD. And I didn't like I've never

from PTSD. And I didn't like I've never been depressed, at least not to the point where I needed, you know, medical intervention or SSRIs or anything like that. I man, I won't take ibuprofen,

that. I man, I won't take ibuprofen, you know, um >> or Tylenol.

>> Yeah. I, you know, if I get pregnant, I don't have to worry about, you know, giving my kid autism because I don't take Tylenol. Um Yeah, man. I try really

take Tylenol. Um Yeah, man. I try really hard not to take any pharmaceuticals, man. I don't trust any of them. Um, but

man. I don't trust any of them. Um, but

those plant medicines, man, they, you know, we see it. It's [ __ ] amazing what it's doing for people. And with

ibain, it's not just mental, man. It's

physical.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> It has a physical healing component that that the other medicines I >> I know somebody that was severe addicted to nicotine, alcoholic that it just was like, "Yeah, I have no

>> Sometimes it's the opposite. Like it's

the the pendulum swing so much that just smelling tobacco is disgusting to them.

>> It's crazy. And it's like what we were talking about the brain and the power of that earlier. There's actually I talked

that earlier. There's actually I talked to Marcus and I I got to reach out to this guy but he's at UT Austin which you know so close. It'd be great but he's a neurochemist that's like helping them

work with a lot of this stuff. love to

get him on and just be like, let's go through what's actually going on up there because >> well, you know, the the dot well I guess we should probably tell the listeners I began.

>> Yeah.

>> A bogga tabernacle is the plant. It

grows in Gabon, Africa.

It's been used for best I can tell is like the pygmies, the first human beings um used ibeane >> to as a medicine for >> theory that's how we got consciousness.

put right there is a theory that you know we develop consciousness because this stuff turns on parts of our brains that we don't get to access on the daily >> and I I do definitely believe that is

true. Um man I tell people like what you

true. Um man I tell people like what you see right now listen I game makes it look like 1960s black and white television. The high definition there is

television. The high definition there is >> it is unbelievable and it's >> So have you've done the medicine?

>> I've done something similar. Um

>> yeah I was I didn't know. Um, yeah.

Like, holy crap, man. And, you know, they've done spec scans with people while they're on it and stuff. The brain

is just on fire. It's releasing

neurotransmitters that they don't even know what they are.

>> Mhm.

>> And basically, it's the idea is, and we all know this, we only use a tiny part of our brains. And in theory, if we could use all of our brains, maybe we could like, you know, move that glass without, you know, we could minute stare

at goats or whatever, right? Or, yeah,

you know, all this magical stuff. And I

I don't know about all that, but I do know it certainly taps into parts of our brains that we don't get on a daily basis. Um what it did for me more than

basis. Um what it did for me more than anything, yes, it cured my headaches.

>> Can we lay out the groundwork on that, too? Because I think that is

too? Because I think that is >> Yeah. Well, so yeah, right after I ran

>> Yeah. Well, so yeah, right after I ran for Congress, man, I I you know, I've been living with headaches since um I got blown up pretty bad in uh

in Iraq. And um yeah, three of my

in Iraq. And um yeah, three of my teammates were killed. I spent nine days in a coma. I woke up. I couldn't I was like I'd had a stroke basically, dude.

Blast gut. My tear ducts, ears all busted, blast gut, edema in my lungs. Um

cuz basically what happens is right like when you when an explosion goes off, you get smashed and then you expand quickly, right? And then not to mention all the

right? And then not to mention all the vibration and >> and so I didn't just have a blast TBI, I also had a traumatic TBI.

>> The last thing I remember was clicking my helmet. We were right around the

my helmet. We were right around the corner from our target. It was a chance that we stopped at a red light in traffic right next to a [ __ ] IED.

>> And they and they had >> they IDed us and cocked it off and basically blew the car in half, blew us across and down an alleyway.

And um yeah, I don't remember any of it.

Uh I think I kind of remember being in the hospital, but I'm not sure. It's

it's it's cloudy. I don't know if it's my imagination or a memory or what, but I I'll tell you, man, it's pretty amazing. So, you know, I lost most of my

amazing. So, you know, I lost most of my memory before that day. Like, I couldn't remember high school and remember people I grew up with, girls I had dated, former teammates, no

recollection gone.

>> And so, later on, I had a a neurologist say, "Hey, as I started getting memories back and stuff, he's like, "You didn't lose your memory, you lost access to them."

them." And I'll tell you, man, getting a memory back is of now getting memory backs are like cool because it's like it just happened. It

>> is neat.

>> Uh the last one happened, I was I was with my rancher buddy in Montana, Raymond, and I don't remember what it was. It was something stupid. And I was

was. It was something stupid. And I was like, you know, I'm like a little kid.

And he's looking at me like I'm a weirdo. And I'm like, "Holy crap, man. I

weirdo. And I'm like, "Holy crap, man. I

just had a recall of a memory." And I was like, and by the way, that's what it looks like when this happens, man. Cuz

sometimes it's not good memories, but sometimes it's >> nothing memories. I'll give you an example. I could not remember my

example. I could not remember my childhood home. It burned down when I

childhood home. It burned down when I was a freshman in college.

And I was sitting in bed and uh all of a sudden, man, like I recalled our kitchen, everything about it. The way the bar went to here, the kitchen sink wrapped

around the microwaves of cornering, everything. Even the 1980s [ __ ] wall

everything. Even the 1980s [ __ ] wall wallpaper and all the way around to the refrigerator and you know how your counter like won't touch the refrigerator space

>> and it was 2 L sodas leaned up against the refrigerator and I was like holy [ __ ] and at first I couldn't tell the

difference between my imagination and a memory.

>> Mhm. But now I can I know the difference because the memories are real. Like I I I know the difference. I I can feel them.

>> And it was funny. So I grabbed my phone and text my sisters and I was like, "Holy crap, guys. I just had a memory blah blah blah." And like they were

like, "What?" Both of them. What? Like

like, "What?" Both of them. What? Like

okay man, that's [ __ ] awesome. You

know like the kitchen layout. Yeah. You don't

remember the kitchen layout? like, "No,

I don't."

Well, fast forward like two months later, I get together with my sister's my older sister's house in New Hampshire, and my little sister, she's been like the um caretaker of the

photos. There was some photos in the

photos. There was some photos in the coffee table that didn't get burnt. They

got damaged. They still smell like smoke. Um and we're sitting there and

smoke. Um and we're sitting there and she's like, "I brought some pictures. I

thought you guys would want to look at them." Blah blah blah. Yeah, absolutely.

them." Blah blah blah. Yeah, absolutely.

You know, that's going to definitely help with my childhood. I haven't seen these pictures since I was, you know, since the things happened. Anyway,

we're messing around. We go sit down.

She's like, "You guys want to look at these pictures?" She's open. She's like,

these pictures?" She's open. She's like,

"This is the first one I want to show you."

you." >> Wow. It's a picture of the kitchen and

>> Wow. It's a picture of the kitchen and there's two 2L [ __ ] bottles of soda leaned up against the refrigerator.

>> No way.

>> Neither one of my sisters had remembered it. They didn't remember it. Like, it

it. They didn't remember it. Like, it

was just a silly nuance detail, right?

And they were both like, my little sister was like, "Look at that." And I was like, "I [ __ ] told

that." And I was like, "I [ __ ] told you."

you." >> Right.

>> So that was really cool. What's that?

>> Do you recall what triggered it or does do these tend to come with like you something just >> I don't know what happens, man. Like in

that case, I was literally just sitting in bed like I don't know, scrolling on my phone or something. So I think what it is is like there's connections in the brain, man. And all of a sudden that

brain, man. And all of a sudden that something gets reconnected and now I have access to this little storage point. Yep.

point. Yep.

>> Best way I can and well I describe it.

That's how a neurologist described it to me and it makes sense to me. You know,

that's a good analogy. Whether or not that's actually what happens, who knows because I don't think he knows for sure.

Right.

>> Well, you haven't figured out the brains yet. you

yet. you taken, not to interrupt like the full story on it, but like I began the amazing part about it is when you go through your experience and you know, of course, feel free to go in details the

level you want to because I know often they're super personal, but the you'll relive moments that feel as real as the moment itself. and you'll have

it's it's almost like replaying a moment or like you sit there and it's it gives you a second to pause before you made that decision and now you're like >> you're experiencing it. It's it's just

this incredible of like >> your brain it's somewhere in there and it feels like you're living in that moment.

>> Yeah. So me with Ibegan man, for me it wasn't about PTSD, man. I was having these headaches. I've been having them

these headaches. I've been having them since I got blown up. So 13 years I had a headache and some days they suck really bad where like I'd have to wear sunglasses inside, you know, very light

sensitive and then they got really bad.

I had a 3-week period where I couldn't like I couldn't leave my bedroom. I was

like living under my bed with the covers pulled on top of me and it hurt so bad, dude. And while I can say still to this

dude. And while I can say still to this day I have never contemplated suicide.

Looking back, I don't know how much longer I would have lasted. two months,

three months, six months, maybe a year, I don't know, maybe 10 years, but I don't know. I would have if if those

don't know. I would have if if those headaches had continued, I would have made it. I would have [ __ ] off

made it. I would have [ __ ] off myself. It was that kind of [ __ ] bad.

myself. It was that kind of [ __ ] bad.

Went to hospital, dude. Like, I won't go to the hospital or the doctor for nothing, right? I'm going to call my 18

nothing, right? I'm going to call my 18 Delta buddy or my friend that's an oral surgeon or, you know, my, you know, dentist wife or and I'm going sort it out, right? Like I mean we all partake

out, right? Like I mean we all partake in you know graveyard medicine you know learn from the deltas and all that. So

for me to go to the hospital man dude I called my neighbor and was like come get me and take me to the hospital. It's an

hour to the ER in Mington, you know. I'm

calling up at the time he was probably 26 year old neighbor. Come get me. And

like I'm baldled up in the truck and he sees me as this the crazy special forces, you know, tough guy neighbor and I'm baldled up in the front seat of his

farm truck freaking crying and you know I get the of course they just give me the um it's co co time

frame. So I was lucky. Holy crap. Um the

frame. So I was lucky. Holy crap. Um the

charge nurse at ER I knew her and she took me right in the back and she was like and she I've talked to her since then. It's kind of cool. She's become a

then. It's kind of cool. She's become a um a Hilo evac pilot.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. What a cool chick.

>> Um she uh she even told me later she was like, "You looked so bad." Right. And

not to mention, man, right, like I had other brain injury things going on. So,

you know, my hand wasn't working because after I got blown up, you know, it was like I had a stroke. I had to learn to walk and talk again. And I'm

left-handed. So, I had to learn to be right-handed.

>> Well, plus you guys don't even know. I

mean, we talk about it like because talking with Marcus on this, a huge thing it's going to be for fighters because they're looking at it and they're seeing like regrowth of brain and guys with severe CTE, like essentially it's just

>> dead parts of the brain, >> you know, same with guys in the military. I mean, even you're talking

military. I mean, even you're talking about, you know, the >> NFL players, but like your solo combat moment where it's like you hit your head on the steering wheel, like for most people >> that would have been enough.

>> That's enough. And then you fell off and it's like all these moment we use for explosives, right? You know,

how many PS psi? Well, we found out that there was just as much PSI coming out of our M4s.

>> Yeah.

>> And you know, one maybe two charges per structure or training iteration, but 100 exposures to that muzzle of your buddy standing next to you >> for a week.

>> Over and over again.

>> Yeah.

>> So, yeah, man. And and then shitty ass, you know, landings from jumping out of planes. Um, you know, helicopter

planes. Um, you know, helicopter crashes, plane crashes, right? Freaking

all kinds of stuff. Man, we get beat up and nowhere near as much as football players and fighters.

>> Mhm.

>> Yeah. Those boys that are going and doing I gain that are um >> Brett recently did it. He's right.

That's awesome cuz now it's not just these crazy special operations guys eating this, you know, crazy hallucinated medicine. We got Brett

hallucinated medicine. We got Brett Favre and, you know, very respected people cuz you know who's Marcus Capone?

The average person doesn't know who Marcus is. Um, average person, they

Marcus is. Um, average person, they might know who Marcus Latrell is and he's an advocate for it. But, you know, other than that, some dude named Tony Cumin talking about eating some weird plant medicine. You know, what are they

plant medicine. You know, what are they doing? Just eating it for fun. Well, if

doing? Just eating it for fun. Well, if

there's one thing I can guarantee everyone watching this, you ain't never going to eat Ibeane for fun. It is not, it's not mushrooms. It's not a party drug. Um, a, it's dangerous. In theory,

drug. Um, a, it's dangerous. In theory,

it could be dangerous if you have underlying. So like in all the clinics

underlying. So like in all the clinics that are running ibeane treatments, it's clinical as in doctors standing by >> which is so important too because there's therapy discussion like it's not just >> right

>> cuz the the way a lot of people do it especially back in the day you know you go down to like Brazil and you go out with the shamans and you just do it and they're like

>> that's still very common with ya >> but with ya you know she >> she's not as rough on the heart and stuff and it's not as long so there's

less perceived um dangers. I became man they don't completely understand everything it does and how it does it.

So you know it's better safe than sorry.

I know MBO life science who is definitely the leader in this space Trevor Milar um being the provider you know he's been providing I gain I don't know for almost 20 years now and um you

know I guess you know the way it really got started was I gain resets the receptor sites for you know any any receptors that have been downregulated

it cures opium addiction [ __ ] cures it just like tobacco and alcohol it's you know >> you know guns and Roses had that song, Mr. Brownstone. I used to do a little,

Mr. Brownstone. I used to do a little, but a little wouldn't do it. So, the

little got more and more heroin.

>> Mhm.

>> And so that's what happens as cigarettes or any of those substances like there's a receptor site. And I guess a good way to explain is like a parking lot or the parking space, right? Receptor sites. As

the parking spaces get full, well, where does the remaining overflow traffic go?

Well, in your system, right? So

basically what I gain does is wipe that parking lot clean of vehicles and so now you don't need anymore.

>> Best best analogy I can come up with right now anyway. And uh

so yeah um my buddy Johnny Primo SF dude complete psychopath.

Um you know Johnny's a wild man.

Alcoholism. He had a really rough childhood which he's been very open about. Um, you know, the war suited him

about. Um, you know, the war suited him and then the war ended. What do you do with somebody that needs a war that doesn't have a war anymore? Well, you

know, well, he starts training for 200 mile ultras while trying to main 500 lb deadlift. I don't know. I think I kind

deadlift. I don't know. I think I kind of been there. Um, how do I know he was doing it? Because I was helping him

doing it? Because I was helping him training for it. Um, drinking a bottle of whiskey before noon each day. maybe

some other substances, you know, cannon dip, blah, blah. And he had done Iawaski, talked to me about psilocybin and all that. Of course, Joe Rogan micro dose and all that. I knew about that, but I don't do drugs.

>> Yeah. The way Joe talks about it, too, it's like, >> yeah, thank Joe.

>> Yeah. Not very clinical, right? And in

my mind, I'm like, you know what, man? I

don't do drugs. I don't take Tylenol. I

damn sure ain't eating mushrooms. >> Yeah.

>> So, I was being very narrow-minded.

Well anyway Johnny tells me he's going to go do this you another hallucin plant medicine thing. I'm like, "Yeah, cool, man." Like

thing. I'm like, "Yeah, cool, man." Like

the [ __ ] you did in the jungle, a you know, he's like, "No, this time it's different." Of course it is. You know,

different." Of course it is. You know,

like what is it, a new stripper girlfriend? Um, no, this time it's for

girlfriend? Um, no, this time it's for real. I love her. I'm like, "Yeah, okay,

real. I love her. I'm like, "Yeah, okay, cool, man. Good luck." And at that time

cool, man. Good luck." And at that time again, I'm dealing with those headaches.

I get clear of the headaches, man. He's

like five or seven days post uh I began treatment and my phone rings and I'm like, "What's up, brother?"

And keep in mind, man, Johnny's one of those dudes that when he calls you, it's four to seven minutes of full auto. You

don't get to say a word. And he goes, "Love you, dude. Bye." Click. And you

go, >> it's just that kind of energy, right?

You know what I'm talking about, right?

D and D. And And you're like, when when they finally hang up after only a couple minutes, you're exhausted.

>> Yep.

>> That's Johnny.

>> I see him and I'm like, I'm interested obviously. I want to know what happened,

obviously. I want to know what happened, you know? Yeah. tell me about this crazy

you know? Yeah. tell me about this crazy [ __ ] you and did right and I answer phone like hey what's up brother dude I don't even recognize his voice if he had not started out with like oh my god bro

you won't believe this I began experience or whatever he said that let me know it was him I don't know that I would have known it was him had he called me from another number I don't know that I would known it was him voice was soft it was calm he was speaking

slowly >> like tension had been released >> hey bro what's up it was the most incredible thing I'm so grateful. He's

using words that I've never heard come out of his mouth, right?

And I'm almost like, who the [ __ ] is this?

And because I was in my truck, I pulled up into my driveway. I was scared I was going to drop his call cuz I was so intrigued, man. He's talking talking 2

intrigued, man. He's talking talking 2 hours. 2 hours and 42 minute phone

hours. 2 hours and 42 minute phone conversation. And I barely said a word.

conversation. And I barely said a word.

I just listened. He talked about from the time he got off the plane in San Diego, the time he got picked up at the hotel, drove to Tijana. Um they do a traditional um native Mexican uh sweat

lodge. You know, it's like a sauna, help

lodge. You know, it's like a sauna, help you dehydrate, push some, you know, purge out because they are trying to detox you. So, if you have taken any

detox you. So, if you have taken any SSRI or something like that, they're trying to help push that stuff out >> because I gain releases a flood of serotonin and serotonin saturation

syndrome is a concern. It can kill you.

So, you can't be on SSRIs or anything like that, cratom, anything that produces um and they drug test you. Soon

as you get there, you take a piss test, a blood test, and you do it again um before the day of the medicine, right?

So, anyway, he tells me all this stuff talking about the food. He's like, "Bro, I've never had food so good." And the chefs are they are amazing. Um and I'm

like, "Yeah, I'm still got a headache, dude." You know? So anyhow, he uh tells

dude." You know? So anyhow, he uh tells me all about it. I'm like, "Dude, that is wonderful." And I'm like, "You know

is wonderful." And I'm like, "You know what? Tomorrow this dude is going to

what? Tomorrow this dude is going to drink a bottle of whiskey and do a eightball cocaine. He's just going to be

eightball cocaine. He's just going to be back to being [ __ ] Johnny, you know, and you know, he's like I said, you know, one of those people who probably just like their own worst enemy,

you know, and uh yeah, that's not what happened. Like he's still not drinking.

happened. Like he's still not drinking.

He's, you know, this is what, four years later. Mhm.

later. Mhm.

>> Well, anyway, as he continues and he goes, "Oh, and you know what, bro?" Cuz

he's been blown up a few times, too. He

goes, "I don't have a I don't have a headache. My headaches are gone." And I

headache. My headaches are gone." And I went "What?

Say that again. Tell me that part again." Yeah, man. My headaches from my

again." Yeah, man. My headaches from my TBI, man, they're [ __ ] gone. You I

met people who Wait, stop, Johnny. I

want to know about that.

Yeah, my headaches are gone. And I'm

like, "How do I sign up?" I was desperate.

I was going into an H-bot therapy, high pressure oxygen therapy.

You know, it it's it's a supplemental.

You know, it makes you feel good for a while. It's a band-aid on a hemorrhage,

while. It's a band-aid on a hemorrhage, right? That's why I get pissed off at my

right? That's why I get pissed off at my congressman. He's all about promoting

congressman. He's all about promoting HBOT. And I'm like, "How about you stop

HBOT. And I'm like, "How about you stop being a [ __ ] you spineless anyway, and get behind the stuff we need?" Last

year, the FDA shot down clinical trials for MDMA, which we know cures PTSD >> or can in many cases.

>> Marcus was pushing in Austin today. He

was like trying to get Texas to open up the first clinics and I was like, >> "Anything you need me to do?" I mean, not that I have like power. I was like, "Let me know because >> ketamine, you know, I'm like, "Dude, why aren't you getting behind that?" Oh, cuz

he's a medical doctor and he's worried about his license and he doesn't want to jump on board, right? He's

>> history says it's bad and it's like, no.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, let's face it, man. The medical community in the United

man. The medical community in the United States and modern western medicine, they're great at fixing broken [ __ ] and trauma but you know, health and welfare, I mean,

look at your average doctor.

>> We're great at broken bones. We're not

good at the mental mental part of it, >> right? I mean, they the food pyramid and

>> right? I mean, they the food pyramid and all that, right? Like, here, poison your kids.

>> Yep.

>> Well, anyway, we digress. So,

I was like, how do I sign up? Tells me

about vets. I dropped my application. I

talked to Miss Lori, amazing amazing human being that worked for vets and um did an interview and she gave me a date and uh like I said, I was doing Hbot,

you know, you feel okay? Like, you know, like we I was on a dive team, so we had the draggers, the rebreathers. You

rebreather pure oxygen and like dude, you know, after a hangover, man, you go freaking grab, you know, one of them oxygen tanks and just, you know, and it helps get rid of it. Well, that's kind of all Hbot does, right? So, I was dealing with that [ __ ] I'd feel okay

for a few hours and then by then, you know, 4 hours later, my headache was bad.

So, I get my date, I go down there, did all the stuff and things. And um yeah, man, when the vision started happening and it's the thing, you know, and Trevor

Miller, I always he has a Canadian spelling milar and I still mispronounce it. Um but Trevor Miller, he um he

it. Um but Trevor Miller, he um he explains I began as kind of like a roller coaster like, "Hey man, you know, if you try to fight it once you're on it, you you're still on it until it's

over. Don't fight it. Submit."

over. Don't fight it. Submit."

>> And I know control freak type people who have not gotten an amazing as much out of Ivane as maybe I have or someone who truly submits to it. I was desperate, dude. I wasn't afraid of it. I didn't

dude. I wasn't afraid of it. I didn't

care. I was like, "Wait, I mean, if Johnny can do it and if that guy can do it and all the other dudes I have now found out have done it pretty because back then, you know, it was still kind of hush hush." You know, dudes were afraid to say

>> still hush hush [ __ ] which I hate cuz every guy I have on the show, I'm like, >> and same thing what Sean said to you.

I'm always like, >> once I talked about it with Sean, I don't give a [ __ ] I'll talk about it.

>> Um, you know, I've even heard some guys say like, "Oh, you know, psychedelics are a portal to hell." And I'm like, "You've clearly never done it because this is the opposite for me." I have

never questioned my faith. You I was raised in a Methodist church. Um, now

there's been times in my life I wasn't super faithful. But never once have I

super faithful. But never once have I been like, "Why God?" or anything like that. Like I believe what I believe and

that. Like I believe what I believe and I'm okay with it. It's why I don't fear death.

>> Um, I believe that's why I don't fear death. I'm okay. Like I just accept

death. I'm okay. Like I just accept reality for what it is and I my faith is what it is.

Um, no man, the voice of God, I've heard it and I began open that pathway up so I could I guess one theory could be, right, like

we only see this much of the visual spectrum. We only hear this much of the

spectrum. We only hear this much of the audible spectrum, right? Like bees and snakes can see IR and we can't, right?

Supposedly there's some new um eye drops that allow us to see better at night.

Yeah.

>> Um I just recently heard about >> colors as well let your brain process colors a little bit differently.

>> Right. And I'll tell you man, there are colors on ibain that don't exist here.

Like that orange, >> dude. The orange on ibeane.

>> dude. The orange on ibeane.

>> It is incredible.

So my visions and this is how insane I gain is. And again it finds it grows in

gain is. And again it finds it grows in Gabone, Africa. It's the only place

Gabone, Africa. It's the only place it'll grow. But it um as my vision

it'll grow. But it um as my vision started, man, freaking they came on pretty fast and you you're laying, you know, on a mattress on the floor, like a

little foam mattress, right? Like, you

know, you move around and stuff on it, so you're not like on an elevated mattress that put you on the floor.

You're hooked to an EKG, heart rate monitor and all that. EKG um monitors everything. They have IVs, IVs standing

everything. They have IVs, IVs standing by, etc. Even anti-nausea medications and stuff because it can make you sick.

It makes most people sick.

Um, yeah. So, immediately I started seeing a little bit of disturbances and stuff like that. So, I threw up a little bit. I was like, "All right, put my mask

bit. I was like, "All right, put my mask on." So, light can interfere with the

on." So, light can interfere with the vision. So, you put a like sleep mask

vision. So, you put a like sleep mask on. Room's dark. You take it at night,

on. Room's dark. You take it at night, actually, so it's quiet out, no interruptions.

>> And um, yeah, man. My visions came on.

It was as if I was laying in a jungle.

my mattress turned into like a mattress of grass and you know and my little throw up pill and my water bottle turned into basically like a um you know like those blue and white speckled teapotss

camping teapotss you can get at Walmart like one of those it was all banged up and it was >> um basically a ceremony going on around me and in front of me there's a fire

down at like and there's people dancing around the fire and they're all black clearly African I did no research about IBM before I went. I wanted to be a blank slate. I

went. I wanted to be a blank slate. I

didn't want to know nothing about it. I

was not interested. I just wanted my headaches to go away. I had no interest in the roots or where it came from or whatever. I really just assumed it was

whatever. I really just assumed it was like I from Brazil or somewhere or maybe peyote, you know, >> Steve made in the lab and >> yeah, I don't know. I didn't care. I was

desperate.

Well, it's from Gabon, Africa. And

I'm in the ceremony in this triple canopy jungle and I'm just like what the music and this woman comes up to me. She

has a baby and she's like dancing and stuff and you know I kind of sit up and you don't realize it like you're really sitting up right like you'll even see, you know, like people take their mask

off and look at it like you can see through it because the visions make this look like 1960s black and white television. It's so high definition and

television. It's so high definition and it's from here to here, man. peripheral

to peripheral.

>> Yeah, you're in it.

>> You're overwhelmed by it, right? We're

not overwhelmed by it. It's just

all-encompassing, right? I never felt overwhelmed. But anyway,

overwhelmed. But anyway, it was weird because the shaman, the main guy, had like this distorted face.

And uh I never made much note of it because that didn't last very long. That

vision didn't. I immediately

transitioned over into this space, this open space. But on my plane ride home on

open space. But on my plane ride home on Friday. So this is take the medicine on

Friday. So this is take the medicine on uh Tuesday night. Yeah. At least if you start on Monday. And so the the main guy

his face was white and had like it was distorted and I didn't understand you know like during the I didn't understand

the whole what the significance of the whole thing.

Uh, see here. So, on my way home, not spelling it right.

On my way home.

I'm going throw up damage on the screen.

>> Okay. Um,

where is it?

There's one of these pictures >> tribe the curators of >> god >> aboga they wear during these ceremonies they

wear handcarved mass out >> that is carved out of the Aboga tabernacle.

bark of the tree.

Bro, I've never seen this [ __ ] before in my life. I have no zero input. No, no

my life. I have no zero input. No, no

Gabon, Africa. I've never been to Gabone. I've been to Africa, but at this

Gabone. I've been to Africa, but at this point, never been to Gabone. I still

have never been.

>> I had no clue about the tribe. Never

heard of them. And I had a vision, >> that exact mask.

>> And dude, I'm on the plane ride home and I see this mask cuz I just Googled Breedy Tribe >> and I realized my vision was them. Dude,

I'm sitting on a plane crying like a baby. Like just overwhelmed like what

baby. Like just overwhelmed like what the you know, >> it was like a perfect introduction to it where I was kind of like welcome, you know?

>> And so there are theories that memories can be handed down in in um in DNA. So

the theory is we all have some sort of recollection >> of those Africa because that is potentially where humankind started.

>> I don't know. I'm just saying it out loud. I'm not telling the audience I

loud. I'm not telling the audience I believe all that, but I'm just saying >> we're check.

>> Pre of Ibegan, I would have told you what I just sound sounds insane. Post I

gain I'm telling you it's what I experienced. And so therefore, my

experienced. And so therefore, my biggest takeaway from my first trip of I learned so much and the number one thing I learned is I don't know anything.

That's what I learned.

>> Well then, like I said, I got to see heaven.

I had a guide. He appeared. He scared

the [ __ ] out of me. I thought he was a demon. Come to find out. He was the

demon. Come to find out. He was the opposite of that. Very much the opposite of that. He never spoke to me, but I

of that. He never spoke to me, but I knew what he wanted me to do, right? He

didn't use words. It was just I just I mean, it's me, right? Like, it's my brain.

I just knew what he needed me to do. He

showed me heaven from space and it was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen or felt. Right? So, these hallucinations

or felt. Right? So, these hallucinations aren't just visions, man. their

emotions, their feelings, and they're powerful.

And uh so I while I went into Ibegan with no other intention of asking it to help with my headaches, it had a little more in store

for me.

I was sewing around so I way more survivors guilt than I would have ever admitted or was even

aware of. You know, I'd had five dudes

aware of. You know, I'd had five dudes under my watch get killed, three in the explosion. And while there's nothing I

explosion. And while there's nothing I could have done, right, but you know, the Ranger handbook tells me, and that's my Bible for leadership, right? That the

leader is responsible for everything that does and does not help it happen.

So, in my mind, if I have adopted this this theory on leadership, like my mind can't help but to somehow think I had something to do with it, right? Like, we

got stopped in traffic that day, man. I

didn't pick where we stopped. I didn't

pick that we, you know, we're going to a target man.

Well, one of my visions was I was sitting there and there's my three guys, my boys. And so, they were Kurdish. They

boys. And so, they were Kurdish. They

were my my Pesh. I lived it with them, man. I lived with them. That I loved

man. I lived with them. That I loved them. They were my brothers, right? Like

them. They were my brothers, right? Like

the reason why I didn't come home very much is because I lived in [ __ ] Kurdistan and it wasn't a rough life.

And I I I had my brothers. Well, you

know, one of the guys was the Sant major of the unit and one of the guys was his son.

Yeah. That family took a [ __ ] ass beating that day.

Um, and they came to me in the visions and in Kurdish, which I do not speak because they spoke such fluent English. You

know, these are all Barzanis, man. They

all spoke clean English. Most of them educated in the UK and stuff like these guy. These guys had college degrees and

guy. These guys had college degrees and stuff. They were not idiots. They were

stuff. They were not idiots. They were

some of the best soldiers I've ever worked with and as good as any American soft. They were studs.

soft. They were studs.

>> Of course, the SEALs had them. Dev Group

had them before us. They were the initial trainers of them and so they're all in the program. They were all jacked up, >> but they had great equipment, right?

They had much better equipment in many cases than uh the average SF team cuz, you know, agency funded. But anyway,

they came in those visions, dude, and they in Kurdish told me they were okay and that they were with God.

Let him go. He reached over and touched my hand just like and it felt just like if I reached over and touched your hand right now. It was as real as real could

right now. It was as real as real could have ever felt. And it's all happening in here.

It was It took It took me a little bit to even talk about that because I couldn't even now. You see, I tear up a little bit. But for a year, I couldn't

little bit. But for a year, I couldn't talk about that part of my visions because I would just cry like a little [ __ ] baby. And I wasn't sure about it. It didn't make sense. Like, how

it. It didn't make sense. Like, how

could I possibly talk to dead people >> and feel that real too?

>> Dad, man, crazy real. And so you talk to guys like Johnny in his case he his his mother Oded and he got a chance to talk

to her, you know, and have closure.

Crazy, right? And you know, it's funny, man. Used to when I first uh when I

man. Used to when I first uh when I first got back from my first journey on Live again, I would be like, "You want to hear about it?" And people would be like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Are you sure?"

like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Are you sure?"

"Yeah." I was like, "Well, check it out.

It's going to sound crazy." And they go, "No, no, no." I'm like, "No, no. I'm

telling you what I'm about to share with you is going to sound [ __ ] crazy cuz it's [ __ ] crazy.

>> Right. I'm like I'm about to sound like a crazy person and uh Yeah, man. So,

uh the visions were were great. I had um an experience where it was like I was holding my brain in my hand and the parts that hurt on my

brain, the damaged parts were warm, like really warm >> really.

>> And it was like I was holding it in my hand right here. And then it went to my neck injury. I have the halo neck, you

neck injury. I have the halo neck, you know, the free fall neck deteriorating um disc and all that [ __ ] >> And um then it went to my back. I broke

my back in 2005. Like I wasn't supposed to walk again. I've had to well learn to walk three times in my life. First time,

second time, and a third time. So, you'd

think I'd be pretty good at walking now.

Um, that [ __ ] still hurts. So, it

Yeah, it basically where your femoral nerve comes out, that got cut a little bit. And, um, my right leg didn't work.

bit. And, um, my right leg didn't work.

It hurt a lot. It's still It's been a few years that it'll flare flare up. The

last time it flared up, I was out on the range and I was in the prones near a rifle and I couldn't get up. Had to

crawl into my truck, crawl into my truck and I it if if I expand out, it'll stretch that nerve. It hurts crazy.

Well, guess what? Also feeds off your nerve, your balls. So for like six months after I got blown up, it felt like if I would breathe wrong, it was like, "Oh, I just got kicked in the balls." Well, I'm laying out on my

balls." Well, I'm laying out on my range, right? The [ __ ] still hurts and

range, right? The [ __ ] still hurts and all this. And I had to drive backwards

all this. And I had to drive backwards home using the reverse camera because I had to lay the seat back because I couldn't sit up and stuff, right? I was

like, "Oh, you know, and I get to the house, I can't get out of the car. I had

to call my buddy who lives 45 minutes away to come get me." Just him getting me out of the truck, throwing up. I'm

hurting so bad. So, like now I'm holding my spine in my hand and it's hot. And

then I have a rod in my left femur from where I broke my femur. And dude, I was holding that rod and fingering. So I I

sheared off the bottom screw in that rod because I was doing stuff I wasn't supposed to be doing before it was healed. And uh that leading edge is

healed. And uh that leading edge is still in there. They backed the screw out, but the leading edge is still in there. So they can't take the rod out

there. So they can't take the rod out without going on the inside of my leg boring around and try and take this leading edge of a screw out. So I was like, "What are you going to do? Leave

it in there?" They were like, "Yeah, I guess leave it in there." And uh they did tell me, "Don't ever bend that rod because if you think breaking your leg hurts, bending that rod that's in your

femur," they were like, "Yeah, dude, that's gonna make breaking it feel like, you know." Anyway,

you know." Anyway, >> um so all of my injuries all the way down to the um my second metatars, so I broke getting out of the water in a

triathlon.

All those injuries, man. And then I woke up. Trevor's sitting there. He's like,

up. Trevor's sitting there. He's like,

"Hey, buddy. What's up, man?" I'm like, "What's up?"

"What's up?" >> It had been, you know, like 14 hours gone in minutes.

>> But did it cuz like my experience and like understanding like guys have heard it too. It's like that 14 hours feels

it too. It's like that 14 hours feels like minutes and it also feels like years.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. It's like

>> like I said, I a little rough, right?

>> The concept of time just >> No, you have no concept.

>> When you come out of it, you're like that felt like minutes. But when you're in it, that feels like years.

>> Yeah. That's Yeah, that's correct. Well,

I was lucky. So, they they say after you do the um your journey, as you start to come off of it, uh they call it the gray day. It's like I have a gang hangover,

day. It's like I have a gang hangover, but it's not like a hangover, right?

You're depleted. You're feeling kind of depressed. Um

depressed. Um >> you know, just worn out. Not not like depressed like, oh, I feel depressed or suicidal, like just exhausted >> cuz you're it's like, >> you know, after today with the podcast, we're talking a long time. We're having

conversations. We're thinking

>> brains. Y

>> you're gonna feel tired after like it's >> that [ __ ] turns on parts of your brain and thinking that >> you've never used.

>> Yeah, that you've never used before.

>> Well, I didn't have a very much of a grade, man. It was funny. Small world.

grade, man. It was funny. Small world.

Uh a dude I had known 10 years prior was there, a seal. We were sharing a room and um my experience did last longer than everyone else's. So, I came down to the room. He had already eaten and was

the room. He had already eaten and was had taken a nap and he looked at me. He

was like, "Huh, bro, you look like spilled fuck." And I'm sitting on the

spilled fuck." And I'm sitting on the edge of my bed and I looked at him. I

was like, cuz our bed's like you we're facing each other in this this room like a little tea intersection as you come in. I looked down. I was like, I don't

in. I looked down. I was like, I don't know what that means. But yeah, dude, I feel like hell.

I napped for a couple of hours, got up and was like, I'm ready. Let's get it. I felt

I'm ready. Let's get it. I felt

wonderful. So, my great day was not that bad. I was hungry. I wanted

bad. I was hungry. I wanted

>> It was a lot with the physical kind of benefit.

>> A lot of people don't have an appetite for a couple of days. I was hungry. I

went upstairs. I was like, "Hey, what's up, guys? You know, how long till food?"

up, guys? You know, how long till food?"

The chefs were like, "Oh, man. It's, you

know, going to be a little bit, you know, we'll make you a smoothie."

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I didn't have taste and smell because of co This dude hands me a a strawberry smoothie. And dude, I'll tell

strawberry smoothie. And dude, I'll tell you, man, I don't like fruit. I don't

like fruity desserts. I don't want a cherry pie. I don't want Dude, I you

cherry pie. I don't want Dude, I you know, like when it comes to sweet stuff, I want like a chocolate chip cookie or piece of chocolate cake, right? Fruits

and desserts, man. Keep that [ __ ] Smoothies don't care. As a kid, if you offered me fruit or broccoli, I'd have took broccoli. Just don't like fruit.

took broccoli. Just don't like fruit.

This dude hands me a strawberry or at least a red colored smoothie and everything down there is so pure and clean and everything. I took a sip. I

was like, "Bro, have you tried this?

This is so good." I'm talking to the dude who made it. He's like, "Yeah, man.

I've tasted my smoothies before." Like,

"No, you got to try this one."

My taste and smell came back and I still have it. So you lost it from COVID and

have it. So you lost it from COVID and and it got back from >> within hours it was bad.

>> Holy [ __ ] >> Yes. You're only talking I'm only I'm

>> Yes. You're only talking I'm only I'm less than 10 hours post you know visions and I gain stays in your system at least it turns into nor ibeane which is the

healing medicine component at least the way I understand it don't quote me um but it's in your system for like 60 to 90 days. So it's still working and then

90 days. So it's still working and then we talk about that a lot. It's like for during that time period that's when you have to heal and um so yeah man um

the next day so they do two things. They

do I began in 5 MO DMT. 5 MO DMT is the psychedelic medicine that is in the venom of the sonor and toad. It's so

hilarious too man because the two seals that were there one I knew and the other one they had pretty rough rides man. and

they had gotten their asses beat. There

was a female that was there and she had a pretty rough ride, too. Me, I'm over here going, "That [ __ ] was awesome." You

know, like I feel wonderful and holy [ __ ] I don't have a headache.

>> And I got my taste back and holy [ __ ] like what the [ __ ] is going on, right?

I'm so happy, dude. I don't know what to do. So, we're sitting around that next

do. So, we're sitting around that next morning before we go and do 5 M. And

this is how powerful that [ __ ] medicine is.

They were asking, they started with the female, she's a grandmother, um pushing 60 probably at the time, and they're

like, "Well, who wants to start?"

And she's like, "I'll start. He's gone."

They're like, "H, he's gone."

She goes, "For the last 33 years, I could smell him. Every time I shut my eyes, I could feel him inside of me."

Her commander, 33 years earlier in the Coast Guard, had raped her numerous times in about a year period.

She goes, "For the first time in 33 years, when I closed my eyes, he's gone."

gone." >> That's gone. I still talk to her. She's

an amazing person. and she actually runs a nonprofit to teach students to uh surf. She's got pictures of her. She's

surf. She's got pictures of her. She's

60some year old little redheaded granny and like surf in big ways in Hawaii and stuff. And so like uh one of the beaches

stuff. And so like uh one of the beaches in San Diego if you're a vet, you want to learn how to surf, she will put you in a wet suit and teach you to surf, man. She's awesome.

man. She's awesome.

>> Her story too, man. That's that's again a way to get this more public mainstream is like, >> bro, >> you know, sexual assault survivors, someone that >> Yeah, man.

>> if it can help.

>> Again, an involuntary type trauma. Like

I said, I still think war is a little easier to deal with, right? Cuz we

volunteer for that [ __ ] I think there's a component when it's involuntary and forced upon you. It's different. I don't

think trauma is created equal, right?

There's that. That's a kind of a dumb way of looking at it. Like, no, we all just deal with trauma on a different level. Yeah. Like there are different

level. Yeah. Like there are different levels of trauma, but how each individual like almost getting a car crash could ruin someone forever. You

don't want to get back in a car, right?

Where I get a car crash, I was like, "Woo!" you know, let's do it again.

"Woo!" you know, let's do it again.

Downshift, you know, let's go back for another lap. You know,

another lap. You know, >> a cartel story I told you offline like some people get freaked out. I'm kind of like well >> you know, learning experience. It's kind

of exciting when I look at >> it's a funny story if you we're good.

>> So, trauma is not equal, but the way we deal or trauma, you know, has different tiers or whatever. That's kind of my take. I'm no therapist, but

take. I'm no therapist, but the other guys, you know, they were like, and at one point Trevor asked, you know, would would you do it again? And

they were like, "All three of them?" No.

And I was like, "Really? Because I'd do it again right now, right?" Like like there's got to be more. Yeah.

>> Um I'm so curious. So yeah, the next day you do five DMT and that's the Venom from the Snoring Toad. So Trevor's

briefing us up and um he's like, "Well, who wants to go?" I'm like, "Well, I'll [ __ ] go. You don't care. Let's get it on." And um but he goes he goes, "So

on." And um but he goes he goes, "So basically what's going to happen, guys, is we're going to put the Venom in uh in a pipe. We're going to aerosol it.

a pipe. We're going to aerosol it.

You're going to breathe in slowly for like 30 seconds. Slow and constant. You

don't want to interrupt because it can be harsh in your lungs. But as long as you pulling it nice and slow, it's like and then we're going to lay back on the pillows. Uh you'll pull your mask down

pillows. Uh you'll pull your mask down and you need to count um uh count to 10.

And if you get to 10 and you're still with us, uh you didn't get the medicine, we'll start over. And he's like, "Okay."

I'm like, "So, let me get this straight.

We're going to take a potentially lethal poison. We're going to put it in what

poison. We're going to put it in what surmounts to be a crackpipe.

We're going to aerosol it and breathe it directly into our lungs. T just looked at me and kind of smile. He does, man.

It's the most amazing demeanor. And he

goes, >> "Yeah, pretty much." And I was like, "Fuck it. Let's get it on." And that was

"Fuck it. Let's get it on." And that was when one of the sales is like, "Hey, bro. Do you mind if I go ahead and go?

bro. Do you mind if I go ahead and go?

because if I don't go now, I may not.

I'm like, absolutely, dude. It wasn't a couple minutes later, I hear the most crazy joyful laugh. He's laughing. He's

having one hell of a ride.

And uh, dude, that guy, he was having some issues with some opiates, a lot of alcohol. He didn't look like the same

alcohol. He didn't look like the same person when we left. And he looked 10 years younger. Dude, it it's so amazing.

years younger. Dude, it it's so amazing.

You can see it on people.

>> You can feel it. and and like people said it about me like as soon as I got home was like wow.

>> So yeah man, my 5 MO trip um it was just peace. It was calm. When it was over I

peace. It was calm. When it was over I sat up and I was first thing I said was wow there really is nothing to fear.

It it's interesting that they each go to the same place but like in different rooms like the from what I've heard with five MO it's more of that peace and that and then >> it's a disconnect. I began you're

present.

>> It's it's you we're thinking >> you're there >> and then the other one's kind of like >> a complete disconnect from the ego is what they call it.

>> A calm separation of like >> after you've accepted kind of what we talked about the spiritual sense, >> right? that kind of lets you in the door

>> right? that kind of lets you in the door and then you just get to be like okay >> when I say five am DMT showed me that there is nothing to fear I mean like it showed me

>> showed me my second journey was a lot of curiosity I had no headaches I still do not have a headache I haven't had a headache since it's been four years and I had a

headache every [ __ ] day for 13 years a bad headache like I could take percoet or Tylenol and it wouldn't touch it. It

wasn't dehydrated, right? It was every day. And you want to just talk about

day. And you want to just talk about just pounding, pounding, pounding inside my skull, you know, like sometimes it felt like my brain was trying to crawl its way out.

>> I mean, literally >> crawl like it was >> claw its way out.

>> My second time was a little different.

Um, I went with a little bit different intent, less about the headaches and a lot of curiosity, but even still, I didn't really know what to ask the medicine for because I didn't feel like I was suffering from PTSD or anything like that.

Um, my father came to me in one of the visions and it was weird because it was black and white, but his eyes were blue.

And I've been told, you know, since I was a baby, I had my dad's eyes, right?

We're the only ones with blue eyes, which was pretty amazing. And it was funny because like I didn't get to talk to him. He just like ascended into

to him. He just like ascended into nothing. And I was like, and he was with

nothing. And I was like, and he was with he was wearing a tuxedo and he's with like three of his buddies, like good dudes. And it was kind of like and he

dudes. And it was kind of like and he kind of as as he assumed he kind of looked at me and like smiled and I was like oh you know I remember thinking like no I'd really like to talk to you.

Uh cuz I didn't get to really tell him goodbye the way I should have. Uh I was I just wasn't I wasn't here when he died. Well, anyway,

died. Well, anyway, um, so when 5 MEO freaking he and my mother came,

I haven't talked about this in a while.

Um, my mom died when I was 16. Um, she

wasn't supposed to die. She had cancer.

She had a surgery that was botched and she never woke up from the surgery. We

fully expected her to wake up.

Um, after her surgery, she opened her eyes one time and I was sitting on the side of her bed holding her hand and she opened her eyes and she said, "I love you."

you." I had no recollection of that moment until I was on 5B.

And out of the nothing, the void came him and his image and her right over her shoulder. and she put her her hand on

shoulder. and she put her her hand on her shoulder and uh she smiled and had a full recall of that moment

while on Mio >> really >> and it was fast like I mean it all happened really fast and hell I was on that trip I was only under for like four minutes and >> and again it's like it's all the time in

the world and none of the time so weird it's it's so hard to explain.

>> Yeah. And so the last thing I saw of her she it's like it's like calm static, just quiet. Not even static, just quiet. And

quiet. Not even static, just quiet. And

she obviously I saw that memory and I know it's real. Um and the someone else was

it's real. Um and the someone else was in the room when it happened and they they were like, "Yeah, that's exactly what happened."

what happened." And uh she said, "I love you." There's

no no voice, but I could see her say it.

and her and my dad just disappeared back in the void and I woke up. I was like, and there's the angel, Ruby. Uh Ruby's

one of the uh nurse practitioners with Ambio, man. And she's a [ __ ] angel.

Ambio, man. And she's a [ __ ] angel.

She's just a beautiful human being, man.

Freaking um she's been important in all three of my journeys.

My last journey, I went down, Trevor asked me to go down and record a documentary they were doing, and I was like absolutely.

um this time real intent. So since I began lots of cool [ __ ] has happened in my life, right? Just be my just because of the way I see things and the open-mindedness

and because my now wife at the time, you know, girlfriend, she's my ex-girlfriend now.

She wouldn't marry me. She didn't see a future with me. Not that I was going to do something stupid as in I just wasn't going to live that long.

>> Mhm. All right. Deployments, risk-taking

behaviors, all that stuff. And so she had a pretty rough childhood and stuff and like the one man her father that was supposed to take care of her abused her.

And so she's always had wanted to keep me at arms range at arms arms length.

Well, she saw the differences in me. She

saw how I was becoming gentle. I was

starting to address her needs and and truly and I think I talked to young males about this. I'm like, you know, you think you're protecting her from the bad guys. She's actually afraid of you.

bad guys. She's actually afraid of you.

>> She was afraid of me. She was afraid I was going to hurt her because any, you know, the most important man in her life or what should have been hurt her. So,

she was, you know, and so when she would get angry, man, is it's it's fight.

There is no flight in her.

So, a little bit of trigger, man. And

it's and she can be just mean like not say mean things ra just it's rage and in a lot of ways man I mean pure emotion is a way of defense >> right like my wife is [ __ ] a beautiful human being like not just

physically she is a beautiful human being >> and um but can be obviously protect herself and I I could never wrap my head around why she couldn't control her

[ __ ] emotions right I come from SF where we control our emotions right I don't if I'm cold I don't have to be cold if I don't think about it you know what I mean like and in my head I'm like this girl's a [ __ ] genius. Why can't

she control her emotions? What is what are you serious, >> you know? Well, come to find out she couldn't and can't because you know when people go into that you know like I

think the terminology is survivor mode.

um when she goes into that or when a person goes into that true phase, they are not in control and and I was educated on this and the saying is it's because it's

Yeah. It's not logical because it's

Yeah. It's not logical because it's biological >> chemical thing.

>> Yeah. It's like you're >> she is not in control. She's not even present when this happens. She's fullon

fight for her life. And to me, it's like this little dumb thing.

>> Yeah. you're just mad at me because I didn't do something stupid or I said something dumb like what why are you freaking out you crazy emotional woman?

Well, as I've been educated on it, right, I start addressing her needs, right? And then I realized that it's,

right? And then I realized that it's, you know, she can shoot, she can carries a gun, she's not worried about, she's worried about me. I'm the only person

that can hurt her.

So when I figured that out, I started addressing that and try to change my behaviors to provide her with not just safety because safety is the present, right? Security is the future. And

right? Security is the future. And

that's what women need. Women need love, safety, and security. They can get those three [ __ ] things, right? And when

dudes figure that out, they actually get the woman they wanted. At least that's my experience. Um,

my experience. Um, she's super physically fit. like been in the CrossFit games, freaking iron triathlete, all that [ __ ] I mean, she's

pound-for-pound definitely more um gifted and done more cooler [ __ ] than I have, right? She's elite powerlifter.

have, right? She's elite powerlifter.

Got three elite totals and three different weight classes in six months.

>> Some powerlifters spend their entire career chasing elite to she got three and three weight classes in less than six months.

>> That's [ __ ] crazy.

>> You want to talk about dieting and stuff? That girl can go from being like,

stuff? That girl can go from being like, "Oh, I got abs to I have veins on my abs in like two days, right?" She did the bodybuilding thing for a while. She's

amazing with her diet. Anyway,

so I asked the medicine this third time um to please help me understand what it is she's she's experiencing when she's in that state. Well, [ __ ] be careful

what you ask I gang for.

>> You felt the same >> cuz I had about a 40-hour trip of that stuff kicking the living dog [ __ ] out of me.

I began to show me two things I had never experienced before.

Hopelessness and horror.

Two things she experiences or did experience. Those are two things I had

experience. Those are two things I had never experienced before. I'm I've

always got a goal, a purpose. I've

always had a future. I've never had a time in my life where I didn't have a future that I could see and a plan, dreams, and hopes. I took that [ __ ] from me. My visions were not nice. They

me. My visions were not nice. They

weren't bad. They were just chaos and exhausting. They wouldn't stop. My first

exhausting. They wouldn't stop. My first

two experiences, I had to have mask on, eyes open to see, dude. Mask off, eyes open, eyes closed. Dude, I had vision on my hand. I had a vision on the wall,

my hand. I had a vision on the wall, vision on the ceiling. It was just chaos. And again, nothing horrible. Just

chaos. And again, nothing horrible. Just

I couldn't get a break.

>> Just a lot.

>> Yeah. And they're all coming. I like

what you were saying earlier with the gunfight where it's like you're just running but there's nowhere to run to >> like that. I would I I've tried to describe it like imagine if you put

TVs all around in depth all around and then like crank the volume up and just put chaotic [ __ ] and like you know some dude talking over there and you know some freaking airplanes flying over here. That's what my visions were man

here. That's what my visions were man and it was just chaos. It was crazy.

>> Mhm.

>> And at one point I took my mask off. I'm

throwing up. I'm purging, man. I'm like

8 hours into it. I'm still throwing up.

Uh they gave me an IV uh anti-nausea medicine, which helped a little bit, but I'm just, you know, dude, my pill that I'm throwing up in, I'm like on my hands and knees, you know, my pill turns into

like a hole to hell. And I'm like trying to push myself back out of it, dude. I

flip my mattress over. I pulled my IV down. I flipped the EKG machine.

down. I flipped the EKG machine.

Freaking So, and I got my eyes open. And

so Isaac, uh, one of the providers, man, he's he's hilarious, man. Um, he comes running up to me. He's like, "Bro, bro."

And I'm like, "Oh, >> still here."

>> Oh, I'm not falling into hell. This is

cool. And he's like, "Well, early in the night." So each time that I had done it

night." So each time that I had done it before, I had to get a booster, right?

So they do, I think it's like 13 milligrams per kilogram of body weight or something like that. And like I just need 14. I need a little bit more to

need 14. I need a little bit more to really get the experience. So early in the night, I'd asked for a booster because it was taking a while for it to kick in and everybody else was already in that space. I mean, you can tell you >> and you died before.

>> Yeah. And I'm looking at, you know, everybody else's EKG and heart rate monitors and I can tell, you know, their heart rates are elevated, blah, blah. I

know they're tripping. Some of them are talking and moving, whatever. And I'm

still sitting there and I'm like, "Huh?"

So, I asked Isaac for a booster.

And then he he said, "Hey, let's get you up, walk around." He's like, "Hey, man.

This stuff's pretty potent. Freaking

let's let's just give it a few more minutes." and it hit me. And uh so some

minutes." and it hit me. And uh so some eight hours later as I'm trying not to fall into this trash can of hell uh you know he looks at me and goes, "You still

want that booster, man?" And I laugh. I

was like, "Fuck no, dude." Um

and so I asked the medicine, I was like, "Hey man, just please cut me some slack.

I just need a bre. I need to catch my breath." And I'm sitting there on my

breath." And I'm sitting there on my little mattress, right? All hooked back up and stuff. And I'm just kind of sitting there and the visions are kind of there but not as bad. And I'm like, I

just need a break, man. Let me get my [ __ ] together. And the voice says, "You asked for this."

>> That's crazy. And it was like someone break checked me in a car and my vision went from like kind of like swirly bubbly things to wham my

favorite photograph of Melissa >> really.

>> And I just kind of smiled and I was like fair enough. Put my mask on and lay back

fair enough. Put my mask on and lay back down and I had probably another six maybe eight hours of [ __ ] visions. It

was really long. I was the last person still upstairs not gone down to the rooms and stuff. And it was funny because it was this was a interesting thing. My visions ended with like a like

thing. My visions ended with like a like a leather courier like little satchel.

>> Mhm.

>> Uh on the ground in front of me and it folded up and disappeared like the visions were like gone. My visions were over. It was the first time because I

over. It was the first time because I had heard about people getting even like curtains.

>> Yep.

>> Show's over.

>> Yeah. The end even people will say like a real were like the >> or like the cartoon. Yeah. You know,

people would get stuff like that and I had never seen anything like that. Mine

was just folded up and it was gone. I

was like, "Is that it >> and that's when the fun started.

It put me in a negative feedback loop where I could not talk myself out of it.

It would like let me talk myself out of it and it put me right back in." Right?

I'm trying to control my emotions.

Helplessness and horror, total [ __ ] fear irrational.

In other words, the exact same thing she experiences.

>> An answer to your question. I mean,

that's the crazy thing. It's like we're talking about the body being able to react earlier. Like if you can give it

react earlier. Like if you can give it your answer, if you can convince your body to keep going, it keeps going. It's

interesting that the medicine's the same way. It's like you went in with a

way. It's like you went in with a request. You didn't know what the

request. You didn't know what the request was. You just knew like

request was. You just knew like >> what the idea was and it said, >> "Show you the answer. you might not >> you don't know what it is going to be >> you know at the time because this is

like first thing in the morning you do you take your I gain the medicine like at 9:00 the night before so you're talking the next morning you know 8 n 10 o'clock in the morning you go up open

your room the next morning at 4:00 I'm still in it and I can't get out of it right >> I'm just like so about 6:00 I go downstairs and the nurse that's on duty

I don't know her and she's young and you know I kind of got to keep in Right. I'm

I'm aware that hey man, they're trying to take care of these soft guys who, you know, relatively good size. A lot of guys have beards, kind of scary looking person to a, you know, a 19-year-old

nurse in Mexico. Um, and she's like, I walked in there, I was like, "Hey, I need you to call Trevor." And she's like, "Are you okay?" I'm like, "I just need to talk to somebody that [ __ ]

loves me."

loves me." >> That's it. That's all I cared about. I

was like, "Fuck this." I had taken a shower, put shoes on. I was like, if Trevor can't be here, I'm going to get an Uber to the border. Freaking I'm

going home.

I was like, I need someone to be nice to me. Someone that loves me, right? Well,

me. Someone that loves me, right? Well,

and she's like, okay, okay. I I'll call Isaac this and that. I'm like, all right. I kind of wandered around. I went

right. I kind of wandered around. I went

outside. It was um it was cold out. Even

it was Tijana. It was like 50 degrees out and it was raining. and wound up laying on the concrete. Um, just bought up in a ball. Just a mess. A [ __ ]

mess. Crying. Freaking couldn't get out

mess. Crying. Freaking couldn't get out of it, man. Like, like just couldn't get out of it.

>> Felt trapped.

>> I don't even know if trap's the right answer. It was like I just hadn't

answer. It was like I just hadn't nowhere to go.

>> Mhm.

>> No answers. No. No. I had no like I'm a problem solver, man. Right. Like problem

solution. Freaking let's go with it.

Nothing. I couldn't get out of it.

couldn't talk out myself out of it. And

if I could kind of talk myself out of it, it'd pull me back in. Kind of like to say, "You're not in control here."

It's how I felt. It was like it was telling me that I'm not in control.

>> Well, anyway, I wound up like kind of crawled up underneath one of the bushes outside cuz that cold concrete felt good, you know? It felt better than what I was experiencing. And I felt a hand on my face. I open my eyes and there's Ruby

my face. I open my eyes and there's Ruby just like that. She had hauled ass down there. You know, they love you. That's

there. You know, they love you. That's

the cool thing about Ambio, man. Is that

there's no doubt in my mind. everyone

there actually cares about fixing you and helping you. Like it's love. That's

the secret ingredient to food, right?

It's the secret ingredient in the Ibegan is love. And um yeah, man, I open my

is love. And um yeah, man, I open my eyes. There's Ruby. She's just smiling.

eyes. There's Ruby. She's just smiling.

She's like, you're okay.

Few minutes later, you know, it wasn't long after that, Trevor come hauling ass in there. He had said, hey, he relayed a

in there. He had said, hey, he relayed a message and said, hey, you know, he has to be somewhere. He promises he's on the way. Sure enough, man, we sat and

way. Sure enough, man, we sat and chatted and I was better. God, just like that, I was fine.

And while it sucked, worst experience of my life, best experience of my life, moving forward for the rest of my life,

right? I now know how to truly like love

right? I now know how to truly like love someone, right? and also hold space, you

someone, right? and also hold space, you know, so if she needs to rage, just let her rage. Um, because like I said, man,

her rage. Um, because like I said, man, like her rage is beautiful. It's pure.

>> And you understand that, too. No.

>> And my wife is a no [ __ ] person, right? She's half Japanese, raised by a

right? She's half Japanese, raised by a very traditional Japanese mother, right?

Tough prideful.

U, but she's a woman, man. You know, she needs she needs gentle. Mhm.

>> Um it wasn't long after I got home, man.

She got pissed about something and was [ __ ] mad. I'm sitting on the front porch and she's stomping around and uh we just come from the gym, so she's got her sports bra on and freaking you know, she's got her shoulders all put back and

she's got these little traps, you know, little and I'm like I'm like, "Hell yeah, darling. Let it out." I'm like

yeah, darling. Let it out." I'm like cheering her on where before I would try to talk her down. It's not what she needs. She just needs to let it rage.

needs. She just needs to let it rage.

Just it's intense. is not going to last that long, right? She's going to burn out. She's, you know, sooner or later.

out. She's, you know, sooner or later.

And she's about 25 meters out in the front yard stomping around. I was like, "Your traps look great. Your [ __ ] shoulders are jacked." And she paused.

She heard me. She can't hear when she's there. She can't hear a word I say when

there. She can't hear a word I say when she's in that space, right? And dude,

she paused and I was like, "Holy [ __ ] she heard me." So, since then, it's been amazing to watch, right? Right. It's not

like she You're talking about like maybe once a month or less, right? You know,

she gets pissed and wants to rage or whatever. And instead of trying to talk

whatever. And instead of trying to talk her down, I'm just like, "Fuck yeah, let's do it. You want to throw some [ __ ] Let's throw some [ __ ] You want to break some [ __ ] We can break some [ __ ] It's our shit." She doesn't, you know, like I think most dudes grow up like

punching holes in a wall or something.

She's just not like that.

Well, it was kind of cool, man, because in that same instance, I'm like, she like, "You want to throw some shit?" I

was like, "Throw some shit." So, it's kind of funny. You know, like the ballistic blocks like in the gym or whatever, you can drop the weights on them, but they they come out of shoot houses.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, we have one and it's like stuck right at the fence cuz our one of our dolls would get out at that fence. So,

it was a temporary little put that there. She runs over there. Well, those

there. She runs over there. Well, those

blocks weigh like a buck 50. And yeah,

she has a 300lb deadlift, but still like, you know, if you have a 500 lb deadlift, you can't pick 250 up and throw it.

>> No.

>> She picks up this block and throws it and it lands like at her feet. She just

looks at it. I was like, "Well, that was [ __ ] anticlimatic, wasn't it?" And

she's like, "Fuck that block." Kicks it, storms off, comes over, sits down next to me, and goes, "Are you okay?" Yeah, it was awesome.

If it was not for Ibegan showing me that [ __ ] I would still be the ignorant meat head that doesn't know how to deal. I don't want to use that.

deal. I don't want to use that.

Doesn't know how to interact with her.

>> We talked about the empathy earlier.

There's that empathetic feeling of like now you understand the experience.

>> Now I get it.

>> Yeah, man. And it's [ __ ] awesome. And

so in the last six months of our 15-year relationship, we've grown more in the last six months than we have in the first, you know, 14 and a half.

I mean, connected. Truly [ __ ] connected. Like on a People talk about

connected. Like on a People talk about soulmates and [ __ ] No, man. I mean,

truly connected.

Um, yeah, man. It's [ __ ] awesome.

yeah, man. It's [ __ ] awesome.

>> Oh, Tony, brother. Honestly, I don't I don't think there's a better way to end the podcast than with that cuz like I said, I think I said this with Marcus on the show, but I we're entering a new era

and I think, you know, I hope so many guys will take us, you know, tons of guys obviously watch the show and stuff, whether it's MMA or this or that. It's

like the the profoundness and the opportunity that's there.

>> Wow.

>> I'm excited to see, man. So, thank you for sharing all that. And

>> people need to hear about it. You know,

it's kind of funny. A lot of times when people get done with their first I expand sprint, they're like am evangelical about it. They want to scream it from the mountain tops and then they rub people wrong and they're like, you know, okay, bro, we get it.

You like CrossFit, >> you know? Oh, you're on the paleo. Oh,

you're eating carnival. We know. Like,

you come off as a crazy person.

>> So, you know, that's why I used to ask people, are you sure you want to hear about this? Cuz it's going to sound

about this? Cuz it's going to sound [ __ ] crazy >> cuz it is. Uh, I don't know. I don't

even care. But that's acceptance, right?

Like the final stage of grief, acceptance. When you accept things for

acceptance. When you accept things for the way it is, your life gets better.

And man, I has just let me know that I don't know. That's why I'm okay not

don't know. That's why I'm okay not knowing these conspiracy theories. I'm

like, I don't [ __ ] know cuz I don't know. I truly don't know. How could I?

know. I truly don't know. How could I?

So, how can I base create an analysis?

But you know what I do know? I finally

know what [ __ ] love feels like. And

it's awesome.

I've always been very protective of her.

Now >> now, bro, almost sometimes to the point where I'm like, >> got chill, >> chill out.

>> She can drive to work without you freaking out. I'm not that bad. But I am

freaking out. I'm not that bad. But I am very protective of her. But I'm also at the same time have a a weird acceptance for fate >> and the plan.

>> Well, now cuz now you know.

>> Yeah, we talked about I mean for the first time in my life, I have a true fear and that fear is losing her.

But I mean, cuz without her, I don't know where I'd be. Man, that chick saved my life. That's why I say Ibegan is

my life. That's why I say Ibegan is lifechanging for me because she saved my life before I began. She gave me a reason to be better. Even though I didn't know how to be better at the

time, I gain helped with that.

But she saved my life because like, let's face it, man, without her, I probably would have kept drinking.

>> I would be like every other SF dude.

Bro, I'm almost 50.

>> Keep going out. Keep trying to go. still

getting after it, bro. Like, I'm in relatively good shape for a 50-year-old, you know. Um,

you know. Um, >> you know, I still run a 66 minute mile and freaking deadlift 500 lb and mostly am not that hurt anymore. It's mostly

because I don't train.

>> Still got the shots, too, for sure.

>> You know what I'm saying? So,

>> yeah, man. I want people to know about this stuff, you know? And I'll tell your listeners if they want to know more about it, they can DM me on Instagram.

freaking, you know, freaking and it's not just veterans, man. Veterans do not have the market the they have not they don't have the PTSD market cornered. Um,

like I said, man, in a lot of ways, I look at, you know, especially people with childhood traumas and stuff where like people they trusted violated them.

Those people, man, good god, they they're toten such the burden, right? It was

involuntary. It was a betrayal, >> you know.

>> That's for the first time something we can actually fix.

>> Yeah. Imagine, right? Like to the to the listener, to the viewer, if if you had something that's weighed on you like that, right? Just like the grandma, my

that, right? Just like the grandma, my first experience, >> right? Imagine being free of that.

>> right? Imagine being free of that.

Imagine being free of the pain and the hurt.

Yeah. It's [ __ ] awesome. I mean, I'm looking I'm like I said, I'm going to be 50 in February. And I look I feel like my life just started.

>> I don't look back. The war was just some [ __ ] I did. I was a Green Beret, you know? I was a this, I was a that. And

know? I was a this, I was a that. And

now I've got this future ahead of me.

And I don't know if I got two years, two weeks, two decades. I don't reckon I'm going to live that long, you know? But

whatever I got left, man, I now value it every [ __ ] breath.

That's I mean yeah that's incredible brother. I

brother. I >> there's always these the conversations on this always let you know leave me pretty speechless. But again man

pretty speechless. But again man >> thank you so much for coming on today and just like sharing your story and stuff.

>> We'll talk offline too but we're definitely going to get you back on the show at at some point as well. Um but

yeah man thank you. No

>> thank you brother.

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