EXCLUSIVE: New UFO Whistleblower Comes Forward

What's up vettors? Patrick here with

Vetted. Today I have a very special

episode for you because today I have an

interview to share an interview with

someone who up till now has remained

anonymous and unfortunately through this

interview will remain anonymous as well

except with one stipulation which you'll

hear about at the very end of the

interview. So this could be part one of

part two or could end here. Now you may

be wondering what are you talking about

Patrick? Well, talking about this former

deputy director of Arrow Tim Phillips

went on MC West podcast not too long ago

and in that podcast he talked about

someone who essentially tried to extort

the US government of UAP materials and

described him as basically a crackpot

who he wouldn't bring his family around.

I was frustrated by some of the claims

made by witnesses um to members of

Congress. I I know that we had people

referred to us. Um one particular

individual um we thought he was

extorting us. You know, we were going to

uh uh pay him for his knowledge or his

materials or he was going to take it to

a foreign country. It sounded like

extortion to us and reported it to our

FBI counterparts. And by the way, we

actually had at various times FBI um you

know agents or analysts who were part of

the Euro staff. So we did work very very

closely with the FBI. Um, so

>> so that was some physical material that

he had. But uh,

>> it was it was and I actually went back

to members of the of this uh member's

staff saying they should, you know, they

they should protect the member from this

individual. It wasn't fair to him um to

give him an audience. I I didn't, you

know, I I am not a medical professional.

Um, but what I heard, um, based off

common sense, I wouldn't want him around

my family.

>> Well, the person he was talking about,

nobody has known who that is until now.

And this is his very first public

interview. He goes by the pseudonym

Michael. The things he had to say in

this interview, if true, are absolutely

minds. The rumor I've heard is that you

and maybe a group filmed something back

in the early 2000s.

Um,

and also that you somebody took a rock

and threw it at it and a piece fell off,

but you collected it. That's the rumor

floating around. Just FYI. Is that is

that how true is that?

>> So, well, like all rumors, there's some

truth in there. So, I'm going to go into

some things I haven't mentioned before,

but are vitally important to what people

need to know about what's going on.

One is that SSCI and Arrow don't give a

about your UFO stories. There's a

lot of other things going on, and I know

people don't like secrets, but there are

things that were said and happened in

that skiff that if it was to get out, it

would ruin people's career. Soon as they

run around the corner, that staff member

took the folder, came over the guy I was

standing next to who was a high up,

asked him what to do with it, and that

guy literally said, "Put it in the

trash."

And he went and put in the trash. Then

the guy said, "That doesn't look good.

Put it through the shredder." Shredded

the thing. Never made it to the

senator. This is your bombshell.

>> All right.

>> Senator Rounds

talks a lot about me, but people don't

understand that because they don't know

who I am. and they don't know what I

told them. I was told that literally

everything he says in the new age of

disclosure film is for me and him's

relationship over two years. I've got

the guy's cell phone.

All right, batters. Please hit that like

button. That really helps out the

videos. And of course, if you're not

already subscribed, hit that subscribe

button, y'all. I'm trying to get to

100,000 subscribers by the end of the

year. All right, Michael. Well, listen.

Thanks for coming on Vetted here and um

willing to talk to me. I do appreciate

it.

>> Yeah, I'm glad you had me on and

eventually we'll be able to go to a

visual, but for now I'll have to still

remain hidden a little bit.

>> That's all good. You you made that clear

to me ahead of time. So, just so the

audience knows that that's all set up.

It wasn't like, you know, you you you

sprung that on me at the last second.

This was all set up. Totally agreed to

it and I respect it 100%. And you know I

was kind of thinking about this Michael

before you know uh preparing for this

interview. I thought, you know, where do

we start here? You know, um what's the

background, right? Like what what are

people how are people going to know

about this story? Like why are you

coming on? What what are we going to

talk about? And for me, it's been

basically Tim Phillips, who was the

deputy director of Arrow, said some

things about you. At the time, we didn't

know who it was. I mean, I even covered

it on my channel. uh he said some things

about you that you basically vehemently

disagree with and that's kind of what

we're here to discuss. I'm sure we'll

get into other things of course I would

love to uh but am I correct there?

>> Yeah, I would say you that's exactly it.

You know my whole position on this even

though it's been going on for years is

to intentionally remain in the shadows

with what I'm doing as a business. And

when he came out and said what he did,

it then started the definition of

insanity, which is this sort of maximum

accusations

>> out of the blue. He's talking about

staff members telling them stuff,

backstabbing, and then here we are

trying to cover decades of work from

kind of the middle piece of the uh story

>> and go as we do.

>> Sure. And and basically just, you know,

I'll steal man the accusation back to

you. You can tell me if I'm right or

correct, you know. That's correct. But

he basically I mean the way I understood

it because I'm the audience. I think

this is what a lot of people understood

about it. So that's why it's good that

you're here to help clear it up because

the way I understand it is Tim Phillips

accused you of trying to extort the

American government which is a bonkers

accusation.

Right. Is that basically the gist of it?

>> Correct. So Tim Phillips who in his own

words was a SCES which means in his own

words again that he served at the

pleasure of the president. That's the

level of position we're speaking about

here.

Who was still at the time actually

collecting a paycheck even though he was

in the deferred program

>> for whatever reason went on a podcast

and essentially ended up being a chapter

title actually is that

>> he got asked a question following some

conversation to do with Luna and Berles

which was what was it like to deal with

the UAP caucus? A question that had

nothing to do with witnesses. Um, keep

in mind I had only dealt with the Senate

and for some reason he kind of went

through a little bit of a word salad and

some jerky movements and then answered

with an answer that had nothing to do

with the question and the answer was he

was bothered by some witnesses um

statements and then went on to say that

uh I had physical material pieces. He

confirmed that and that uh either they

were going to pay me for my knowledge or

I was going to take them to a foreign

country. It sounded like extortion to

him and then even continued on further

with my mental state. And it was as much

as a shock as it was to everyone

watching this. I was in the same seat.

So was my attorney. So were the

government funding people we worked

with. That came out of left field. No

one was expecting that.

>> Oh, really? Okay. So that's interesting.

So for you that was a shock for him to

say that.

>> Complete and total shock. I mean,

when he started to ramble through that,

um, my phone was blowing up and it was

amazing. I can't go into everybody that

was texting me, but let's just say a lot

of people that were very close, um, to

what was going on,

>> sure.

>> Were were shocked and had already heard

of it, too. So, it Yeah, that was out of

complete left field allegation. Did

didn't he say something about um you

know there was an investigation into it

or something? Yeah, I mean he really uh

I mean first he made it a point to bring

that up that had nothing to do with the

question and then he he made it

definitely it was leading to say that uh

they had turned it over to the FBI and

then it kind of then started rambling on

that uh the chairman of that committee

which would have been SSCI

sent him to the Nevada Test Range uh

essentially over what I had done because

they were worried that um programs on

record had been compromised.

So, he really left it out as this um big

whoop to do that I was in the wrong.

They were investigating it. But he also

made it very quick. He made it sound

like well they they came to him uh a

member of the committees which would

have been SSCI to interview and they did

and that's not at all what happened. You

know, it was over a two-year process. I

mean, Tim wasn't even there when I

started going in in early 23, and the

last time I was in the SSCI skiff was

January of this year, 2025. So, you

know, again, the way he tried to shorten

that story and form an opinion is so

wrong and so misleading.

>> Sure. I mean, that's that's why I'm glad

you're coming on so we can discuss this.

There's always two sides to a story, and

definitely a person who's being accused

of something like that has every right

uh to come out and defend themselves. a

you know thousand% which is why I wanted

to to you know to talk to you. I thought

you absolutely are owed um that right to

in your own words to sort of um uh maybe

yeah shine some light on on this. So so

what is what's the real story?

>> Yeah, if you have time let me kind of

jump in here. So

>> yeah absolutely take it away. little

bits and pieces of this art. So, I'll

try not to make it too long, but to get

to the Tim Phillips part, um, we had

developed technology over decades that

had the ability to pick up a lot of

things in the air, uh, that aren't there

unless you can prove they're there. Um,

and some of those ended up being what

we're referring to as UAP, where you

have the flight characteristics that um,

like from the NITS encounter, which is

not what we refer to as traditional or a

lot of people immediately think maybe

off-world. And so,

>> what when you say pick up, I'm sorry, I

don't mean to interrupt. just just for

me

>> pick up on radar for tracking

identification photos videos uh GPS

coordinates with the date and time so

they can use their own methods and

satellites and whatnot to you know data

links to to verify that. So

>> we try to sell directly to the military

because that's what our point was. We're

we're not picking up anything that I

would say is um nonhuman or alien or

anything like that. So it's not like a

disclosure thing. Now the technology

secrets I have some issue with but point

being we went through the military they

were very interested in what we had but

it was not in the sense of um wanting to

purchase it. It was throwing us into

every possible investigative branch they

had afosi NCIS

cyber command I mean IG's and it was

pretty poor treatment. Now keep in mind

that me and my group were essentially

civilians.

So due to jurisdiction, we ended up at

the FBI office with the Department of

Justice and attorneys all around.

To explain our story, we went through

the story there over a couple hours. The

FBI agent came on hard, which they

normally do. Senator Rounds would later

say it was the good cop, bad cop

routine. He was the bad cop. So he

accused us of all sorts of stuff right

at the table. The Department of Justice

at the end said, "I'm clearing you guys.

you've done nothing wrong. You have

something that the United States wants,

but you have a right as a business to

sell that to them. They can't just

charge you with something because they

don't like your abilities. Um, and so

that was it. That's where that ended.

And it was such a negative um long drawn

out process through all this that I did

contact um Senate Select Committee on

Intelligence and Senate Armed Service

Committee. to complain about the

treatment.

>> I mean, we were trying to help out, not

do anything wrong. So, I ended up

getting contact back from Senate Select

Committee on Intelligence, who was

interested in just one word that I said,

and that was UAP.

And that was about uh early 2023 when

they were kind of ramping up their whole

investigation into this. So, they asked

for me to come in. Um, I brought a

couple people with me as a company. They

understood that at the beginning, the

whole story. We were a business looking

for a deal because we had the goods and

we had information they wanted. Came in,

briefed them. Uh, they then drove us

over to Arrow. That would have been May

of 23.

Uh, we spoke to Arrow well past 5:00. I

don't even remember what time it was

when we got out of there. It could it

would have went to midnight if we'd have

let it.

>> Yeah. And basically the pro the problem

we kept running into is we had to keep

telling them like we don't work for you

guys. That's the whole point.

>> Um and they they knew exactly too we

were a business. So at some point in

time in a business you can't just every

time tell them exactly how you're doing

what you're doing exactly the

information you got. Now we gave them

coordinates and date all the

verification stuff. Right. So at the end

of that meeting, we agreed with Arrow

that both of us were interested in

national security. We'd had a lot of

foreign contacts that that would be our

starting point to work together. So they

would give us DoD dropbox. We turn over

all the contacts, you know, phone

numbers, emails, wherever it came from.

And that was our relationship. And there

were some pretty nasty ones that came

in. you know, there were death threats

that came in that OSI ended up verifying

uh from more than one country. Um, a lot

of financial offers came in and at one

point in time, I think I've shared that

some a little bit online. Even Dr.

Kurpatre wrote me directly um over

Chinese nationals offered money if I

would work with OSI basically

get these guys off the street. That's

the true story of what was going on

before Tim Phillips showed up. So

Tim Phillips showed up. I believe it was

October is what he has down. Um I've

never spoke to Tim Phillips ever.

>> Oh wow.

>> I don't have I don't have any emails

from him. Um

>> yeah,

>> never called me

>> during what his very last uh podcast he

did. It sounds like he says that

uh he interviewed me or I met him or

something like that. I've never met him.

I mean, again, the story just keeps um

rolling on. So,

no idea, right? Uh I was in contact with

with Arrow through that time, different

dropboxes. You got to turn in who

approaches you. All that information. Um

they thanked me for it. You know, I

think I've shared one too online that

says, "Michael, thanks for keeping these

pieces of material away from our

groceries. You know, thanks for the

contacts you sent in." I mean it was a

working

relationship.

>> Sure.

>> Uh

>> why would he say this? You think why why

would he

>> Well, it comes down to really the end is

the end and that is that

SSCI actually never trusted Era. And I

think that's evident even when you look

at the um Rush Foye that came out where

you've got Kurpatre talking back and

forth saying I basically don't think you

guys are sending us the people you

promised to and holding up your part.

That's really how it was operating.

>> Yeah. you know, so all of a sudden with

all these deals that were being promised

um the various senators in the room with

us in the skips with us, they came to a

point where they realized frankly, oh

these guys have technology that

defeats multiple things. Just for

instance stealth.

You know, there's planes uh on order

right now to be built that are supposed

to be 700 million each. will probably

come in around a billion each. You have

trillions of dollars of assets. Our two

of the most expensive programs we ever

run are both stealth jets.

>> Sure.

>> And now you're sitting across the table

from a guy that's just ruined all that.

And that's not even our whole portfolio.

>> So you have developed a a technology

that could

>> change the world pecking order, right?

>> Yeah. Um, for anyone that's familiar

with battle, for those that aren't, it's

the same um, situation, which is that

the motto in battle or conflict or war

is when the air, win the battle. That's

the number one key to any battle. So, if

you lose that,

>> you're in trouble.

>> It's over.

>> Keep in mind why this was going on. This

is highly important.

The same people we've been working with

even now after this

briefed SSCI on how to fund this.

These are government people. So

>> sure

>> again there was never any sort of

extortion. Um unless you're going to

accuse your own employees of extorting

you which they wouldn't. I mean the

audacity of the story is just

mindboggling.

>> Sure. So we got to that point and it

seemed like they felt that it was better

to go back to their old methods. You

know, we had been told by one of the

senators that we had a sitting senator

on both senate armed services and

intelligence in our corner and that's

very rare in his own words and it is to

defend us against the invention secrecy

act which is what we were fighting and

he did confirm with basically the

Pentagon that that's what the plan had

been to take this from us. So, we were

kind of forced into working with them

>> and we felt like they had good

intentions, but at the end it seemed

like with some staffing changes and some

committee leadership changes,

>> they just wanted to go back to the old

invention secrecy act. It'd be easier

for them because the nastiness part of

that is

once they get it, you don't have to sign

anything. You're automatically in the

NDA. Anything you bring up or say about

it, you couldn't even talk to your

spouse about it. You can't even really

go to court about it is a violation.

You're talking federal prison time,

millions and fines. In other words,

they're going to shut you up. They're

going to take what you have. And that

seems to be what they wanted. I don't

want to drag on too long here, but right

before this all happened, we were

notified that um from actually Senator

Round staff

that we should seek uh legal counsel and

it was kind of a shock. We're like,

"What do you mean? That's a weird email

to get."

>> Sure.

>> Been recommended to him that we seek

legal counsel.

>> Wow.

>> So, we got talking a little bit and

ended up being over the whistleblower

protection this whole time. Everything

we signed said we had it. We were told

we had it. We still qualified. You know,

spill the beans. Um, so I checked over

at Arrow OSI with my contact over there,

the embedded OSI, and he said, "Yeah,

um, because you guys are military

contractor clearance holders, you have

no whistleblower protection on privacy

act protection."

>> And so this was some of the the

backstabbing that was going on. So right

now what Tim's doing although not

ethical is actually legal because he's

not violating the the whistleblower

protection. If you listen to him and

every one of his podcast

multiple whistleblowers are brought up

and some of the names you think oh man

here's where Tim's going to let loose

because we know some of the testy

relationships

with whistleblowers and arrow but he

doesn't. He always says something to the

fact that Arrow or the United States

government doesn't want to disparge

people from coming in talking. You know,

recently on my Twitter, I released his

um

write up of his first meeting he had at

the round table invite only. He's saying

things like, you know, I'm a guy from

Tucson. You know, I treat anybody that

comes in with respect and we're not

biased and I'd give you my phone number

if I could. You know, good old boy Tim.

But this is what happens when they

realize you got them by the balls. They

come after you. And so again, this is

all we were blindsided.

But it does explain a little bit about

what happened at the end because the end

was supposed to be we were refusing to

come back in to have a meeting in Skiff

because it just didn't look like the

deal was going anywhere. They

continually wanted more information.

>> Yeah.

>> They're the ones that asked for the

photos. They're the ones that wanted the

video. They're the ones that gave us the

assignment to go out and get it. So

that's all on them. That wasn't a first

skiff meeting sort of deal.

And then at the end of it, we basically

said, "We're not coming in unless we

have an agreement." And you sent it to

us. We'll have attorney look it over,

right? Sign it. We'll come in. Got a

personal call from Senator Rounds. Um

sat here just him, not like I'm so and

so. Let me let me get you to Senator RS.

Just him calling us directly from his

phone.

you know, promised not all these things.

He said he had the top IC and the top

military in the same room. These people

had never been in the same room

together. They all had access to my

folder, my TSSCI folder. They would know

who's was what.

I would come in that one of his

employees, his staff, Dan, would hire

the logistics. Come in for a couple

days. He'll introduce you to all these

various people, whether it be DARPA or

these or that funding people. uh you

know the handoff, that sort of thing.

And then he said, "If anything ever

happens the whole way through, they know

I'm watching them, but you get back to

me if you feel like they're trying to

take it." They told me they wouldn't

take it. I'm watching. And we get up

there and it's like they asked us all

the questions at the skiff in January.

Some pretty vital information. You know,

there's a massive problem with insider

trading. Imagine knowing what you'd want

to bid in on the stock market for the

secret sauce of this technology, that

sort of information, you know.

>> Yeah. And then what came was they

refused to have the final call at the

end with the funding. The funny guy was

going to come back in on conference to

get this done.

They literally just said, "Well, it's

not happening today." And we were kind

of like, "Okay, well, we got we got our

own funding people. You know, we're

going to hand them off to you." We said,

"Oh, all right." And we got an email

couple weeks later that basically said,

"Posing out the skiff. Here's four

generic addresses, you know, mill kind

of like.com generalized. DARPA.com, it's

not dot com, but that sort of, you know,

>> yeah,

>> where would you start on a front page

of, you know,

>> Sure.

>> funding. I mean, it's worthless like

Google results. So,

>> yeah,

>> that was the end of it. And so, until

Tim really spilled the beans with the

backstabbing and whatnot, we still had

to piece it together after that.

>> Sure. Wow. So let just I want to make

sure that I understand the story again

just for the audience. I'll kind of

steel man it back make sure I I heard

you correctly. Um basically the idea is

that

you developed a technology that they

wanted

um and you went in to talk to them about

it and they kind of agreed, okay, yeah,

we we can pay you for this. And then

they kind of pulled the rug on that and

maybe brought in this secrecy act where

the government could come in and take

something you've invented free of charge

essentially take it from you and shut

you up and they basically keep it. And

that's essentially what had happened to

you. But you thought maybe there was a

deal that you could you know make a deal

with the government to to get something

for this technology you had developed.

>> Yeah, that's pretty much the gist of it.

I mean we were always dealing with the

invention secrecy act. It was always a

problem, but there was protection

offered.

>> Sure.

>> Uh, and so that looked like the path to

go. Um,

you know,

there's a lot of other things going on

and I know people don't like secrets,

but there are things that were said and

happened in that skiff that if it was to

get out, it would ruin people's career.

And that's at the highest level. We're

talking about the Senate Select

Committee on Intelligence, not some

low-level, you know, manure caucus or

something. And if that happened, you

could have a swing

pretty fast. I guarantee the leadership

of these committees and the committee

standings would be knocked down. And

that's the sort of stuff that they

panicked at. I wasn't planning on coming

out saying any of it, just so we're

straight here.

>> Sure. um

>> you just felt like you had to defend

your name.

>> As you can tell, I'm pretty good at

keeping secrets. Um yeah, and that was

just part of how things had to happen.

So, I think that was another panic

because they were like,

>> before he starts talking,

>> let's make sure we tell everybody he's

crazy and he's selling technology to the

other side,

>> let's try and ruin him before he says

anything. So, there's multiple layers

here.

>> Wow.

>> Um and it turned into this massive mess.

Sure. Like what kind of stuff are they I

guess I know you can't talk about I

guess I What's the best way to pull this

thread a little bit like I guess I'm

curious.

>> Le let's put it this way. I was never in

any skiff without a witness for a

reason. At least one witness.

>> Okay.

>> And keep in mind anything I've ever said

I've always been more than glad to be

polygraphed on. And so they know they're

screwed in some senses. Um,

so when that happens, unfortunately by

human nature, most people default to let

me get my slander out first.

>> Sure. So they're worried about things

they said to you,

>> right?

>> There's things were said happen in a

skiff that would be

>> damning. I mean, it would be front page

news everywhere.

>> Like, is it about the government? Is it

about you? Just you specifically, UAPs?

Like I guess that's what I'm confused

about. I guess people listening like

what

>> it's hard to get it's hard to get into

without directly talking about it. But

>> sure.

>> Um first and foremost I guess what I'll

say is this. I can't really get into the

nitty-gritty but and this has been

pointed out to me. You know when we went

in everything we signed was in the

format for contractors or military.

There was no setup for us the only

civilians to ever go in. They didn't

write new legal contracts, nothing like

that. So, we just got the same thing all

those people got.

>> Got it.

>> We got the verbal thing said to us we

have to agree to which is like now that

the skiff door is closed, you're

relieved of all NDAs, but soon as that

skiff door opens, they're immediately

back on you for life. Well, we don't

have any.

But that's just the process of going

through as the only civilians. Nothing

was set up. So with that said, they just

handled it like they normally would. So

you know, my folder that they would get

out when we came in and put on the table

and we go through the information in it

was marked TSSCI

by them, not me. And it's held in this

skip safe.

>> Yeah.

>> None of that should have happened with

civilians,

but I understand why. I actually don't

have a problem with it because as you

know when

China is issuing a death threat to a US

civilian over what he has and Tim's

confirmed physical material pieces, it's

okay to go ahead and mark that TSSCI

even though that may not fit within the

legal justification of how you can do

that or who you're just playing it safe.

>> Got it. So, because rules weren't really

um

official and they handled it how they

want, that really created a free-for-all

through the whole process that goes a

thousand times that. But that's kind of

the method of there's a lot of rules and

laws that were not followed or

intentionally broke

>> to get to this point, which is solving a

secret.

So they essentially thought certain

things were in place for protection

because of the normal protocol they fall

with, you know, fall into with dealing

with maybe people like yourself who were

quote contractors, but you're coming in

as civilian, but they they just use the

same method as always and then at the

end realize, oh

>> there was some things we didn't cover or

protect ourselves from.

>> It's mainly the ending of that because

the ending of that is normally I would

be locked into not being able to say a

word or I'm going to prison.

>> Sure. And I think when they finally

realized this isn't good, the guy with

all the answers can speak. Although they

haven't clarified that, we've asked

several times, including their legal

counsel that was in the skip with us

each time, you know. So that's the worry

is that I start talking about what goes

on. I mean, I just want to kind of

mention this too to people is that,

you know, I keep hearing about rules and

laws, but it's I'm a proud American by

all means, but when you look at the

history

>> Me too. um just even recently where

there essentially the Senate Select

Committee on Intelligence was hacked by

the intelligence community

over an issue that had to do with John

Kuryaku who's the gentleman for the CIA

that served prison time over torture

and even you go into the Snowden thing

whether you like him or not

other than the fall guy got in trouble.

So the people that went said, "No, we're

not spying on Americans." Still got

their pension in the medals, right? Um,

no one gets in trouble. So now you're

dealing with their boss. The Senate left

many on television. Who's really going

to come in and slap their hand

or get them in trouble for breaking

rules, right? It just doesn't happen. So

they were never worried about it to

start with. But now because of the

situation all of a sudden that sort of

playing it loose

um sort of system could really backfire

on them which by the way I've got to

clear up I haven't released to do that.

That's not my intention here.

>> Sure. Um, the same people that briefed

them on how to do this as I've also

briefed

uh Congressman Burlesson when I sat with

him recently

and Berles has one on record saying I am

a patriot and there is some complication

getting the deal done. He's kind of

straightened it up a little bit. But the

same people that want the government to

have what I have are still with me

finding. It's just the craziness of the

Tim Phillips scenario that

>> threw this all into a giant mess. Sure.

Of course. Like I guess I I do have a

lot of questions that you I'm sure

you'll be able to talk about actually

because you know I run a UFO channel,

right? Like why am I talking to you?

Does this you know what I mean? Like

what why would you go to arrow? Does

this have anything to do with UAP? Like

UFOs like why? And if it doesn't why go

to arrow? Like you know what I mean? I

guess that's right.

So, I'm going to go into some things I

haven't mentioned before, but are

vitally important to what people need to

know about what's going on.

One is that SSCI and ARO don't give a

about your UFO stories. That it's

not don't kill the messenger, right? But

I'm just telling you, I've been in a

senator's office. You know, we used to

use the back door to go in and out. Um,

if you're not aware of that, that's how

come they that's how they avoid you,

right? Sneak out of a back door that's

just a white door into the wall. You

know that you can't even unless you have

a key card.

>> Yeah.

>> And then head over to the skiff and

back. So, I'm standing in the office.

Some members who were armed services

members come in. They had been calling.

No one had answered. So, they bought

tickets. They came up there. They had a

folder of information they wanted to

share with the senator who was on the

committee. Um they left that with the

the staff members at the office and

talked to him for a while and they were

going to get back in touch and as they

walked out of the office I see him kind

of give each other the pat on the back

sort of you know five soon as they run

around the corner that staff member took

the folder came over the guy I was

standing next to who was a high up asked

him what to do with it and that guy

literally said put in the trash

and he went put in the trash then the

guy said that doesn't look good put it

through the shredder shred the

never made it to the senator.

I've talked to the senators and I'm just

telling you from can't say a whole lot

about what happens in the skiff, but

I'll say this, there's a hell of a lot

of laughter and jokes about you guys

leaving UFOs.

>> Don't kill the messenger, but I'm just

telling you

>> I've seen people

>> choke and have to get a drink on the

laughter of repeating some of the stuff

that they've been told

into.

>> Wow.

So when you get into things like why has

the Senate been all drones and the House

has been NHI and abductions? Well, you

may not like it, but I'm the reason they

switched to drones and I never talked to

the House until I got out of um this

year dealing with SSCI. So they've been

running a different route. So that's the

first thing. Um, I kind of want people

to understand

even if it's not what they want to hear

because you guys are wasting time. If

you really think SSCIO, you need to hear

that whether you like it or not.

>> You're cheering people on, you know,

calls of this and I know they're hosting

after parties and they're doing this and

they're doing that. I'm just telling you

it's a load of crap.

>> Um, it just is.

>> Uh, so you know, that's the first thing.

The second thing is, and this goes back

to Tim's allegations,

at no point in time did anyone in SSCI

or ERO tell me I had to give them the

physical material pieces.

SSCI asked, see it, right? Never said

it's ours. Now,

Arrow asked if I would provide it. I

didn't provide it to Arrow. I did ask

them, is this legally a request or are

you just asking? And they said,

>> it's just us asking. We have other

people that have said they had material.

We have that now. We're going to send

that off for testing. The results are

going to come back. We'll bring you in.

We'll talk about it. And then the

results and the material is yours again.

And it does sound like from what I heard

that that actually did

happen over some missile casing or arch

parts or whatever it was they got a hold

of. So

>> yeah, I remember that.

>> Again, at what point time is it that

there's this line where like anything I

do is is wrong and horrible, but not

them. So lastly, I want to leave you

with this, and I guess this is your

breaking news because um I know you

could get in some trouble. This is your

bombshell.

>> All right.

>> Senator Rounds

talks a lot about me, but people don't

understand that because they don't know

who I am. They don't know what I told

them. I was told that literally

everything he says in the New Age of

Disclosure film is from me and him's

relationship over two years. I've got

the guy's cell phone number. When he

starts talking about, "Do you think for

a minute China and Russia wouldn't try

and get this technology?" It's all the

same thing came from us.

>> He's not talking about UFOs at all. He's

he's talking about Oh, wow.

>> I don't know how the film's going to be

created, but I'm just telling you.

>> Wow. sitting around has had some pretty

good laughs over stuff that's coming. So

he asked the OD on our behalf

based on GPS coordinates and date time

stamps if this was theirs and they said

no.

This is not our asset. It can be

verified. Tim kind of did that. You

know, he breaks stuff apart at the end.

He starts saying something to the effect

of I can't remember exactly, but you got

spooky things in places they shouldn't

be with performance characteristics we

can't duplicate today. Well, guess what?

That's the same damn thing. Now, what I

will say is the next thing Senator Reyn

wanted was a data link. And I can't go

into that because you can deny

>> he wanted to. I'm sorry.

>> Data link.

>> How's this thing flying?

>> Got it. his his position was they can

deny, you know, coordinates and photos

and videos and metadata, but they can't

deny data. Now, I can't go into that

story, but one other thing Senator Round

says in one of his other interviews is

that it's either

a very hidden program or and he kind of

puts his shoulders up. So, my position

is is that they know enough. I know

because I gave it to them that this is

ours even though they don't necessarily

have the jurisdiction they wanted over

it. So because of that,

it's still a UAP. Like we know what UAP

means right?

>> Sure.

>> It's still unidentified, unexplained.

>> Sure.

>> Unclaimed.

>> Sure.

>> So that is why I still use UAP. And then

just kind of an end note to that,

I was against the UAPDA.

It's the only time in my life I've ever

seen anyone cheer on imminent domain to

start with. That's never like a cheer

point for the general population.

>> Sure.

>> If you read through that, it says

>> the latest one that says anything that

is essentially

they don't know where it's from. doesn't

say it has to be NHI or anything. It

would just become their prop. Any piece

and there's like a thousand things

listed on there of the definition of

pieces. If you got a spark plug,

whatever it may be.

>> Yeah.

>> So, what the plan there is is that

because they don't know where this is

from, which is what their claim is, even

though they know it's there, that's

still their property if that passes.

Doesn't matter if it's Russia, China.

And then when you take it, it's gone.

They don't have to give you, nor will

they, an explanation of what it was or

where it came from. So, all evidence is

now disappeared legally without them

ever having to admit it being

theirs.

>> Sure,

>> people seem to think this is some way to

kick down the doors of Locky and that's

not how it works because for people that

don't understand the government and I'm

not getting on to you about it, but it's

become pretty evident where even Luna

had to be like, "Well, I'm not actually

a senator. just to clear this up like

it's a complicated mess up there. So the

branch that is going to be

um like SSCI

they need Arrow to actually do things.

They form Arrow. Arrow is supposed to be

the ones investigate. They find

something and they can kind of send it

on to someone to kick down the doors.

Arrow has said on record in the report

they have found absolutely no material

of off-world or reverse engineering or

any programs that aren't already

notified which means the only thing left

for imminent domain is exactly what Tim

Phillips said my material it is

completely a hit job on that.

>> Wow.

So, you know, we keep talking about

these pieces and this thing. You know,

you know, I guess I don't really know

this full story. I've heard rumors. So,

I'll tell you the rumor that's out there

that I've heard. That way, you could

dispel it, right? If it's true or not

true. Like, the rumor I've heard is that

you and maybe a group filmed something

back in the early 2000s.

Um,

and also that you somebody took a rock

and threw it at it and a piece fell off,

but you collected it. That's the rumor

floating around. Just FYI. Is that is

that how true is that?

>> So, well, like all rumors, there's some

truth in there. It's just the relay of

um of it. So, yeah, that does need

cleared up. And I've tried, but it

amazed me how many people in this space

have their mind made up and refuse to do

any research. Um,

>> sure. Sure.

>> And so to clear that up, this is not

farmer Bob was in a field and that green

guy showed up and you know, this is

more than two decades of work with the

team that when we used to come in, they

used to joke and call us the space

cowboys. We got some older guys on us

that built for the space program and

things in reference to the Clint

Eastwood.

>> Good movie. Yeah, I was just gonna say

great movie. Yeah. So,

we built technology, millions of dollars

of technology

to be able to track, not once. You're

getting into things like tripledigit

amount when you get into 20 some years.

It doesn't matter if you can track it if

you can't bring in the evidence. Sure,

you've got GPS and date time. You're

going to need photos. You're going to

need videos. We've developed a whole

system how to get high quality.

And that's just continued on with

capturing information, hitting it with

different, you know, um, apparatus. I

got to be a little bit careful what I

say. But

the whole idea here is the Einstein

quote, which is I really don't care

about that phenomenon or this

phenomenon. I just want to know how it

works.

>> Sure.

>> And that's how we've went at. So, we've

been able to duplicate. Reverse engineer

is not a great word because people think

that that's easier than it sounds.

>> Sure.

>> Reverse engineering anything is a mess.

Um, but when you get a a look at the

answer sheet, it helps.

So, we've got basically what would be

ITAR categories of stealth codings,

power sources, weapons, and the radar.

So, the radar is the main thing that's

catching the attention right now. But,

so this has been a long process. Um,

during one of the point times, um, there

was a rock drone. Keep in mind if you

have something sitting down in front of

you like this for say 10 minutes,

especially at the beginning and you've

hit it with everything you've got

because that comes first, right? You

want all the results and all the

testing, whatever you can get from it,

especially when it just works out when

you happen to have that with you.

Photos, counting everything. I mean, you

know, it becomes a question of now what,

right? You're standing there, you're

looking at this damn thing. It's doing

something that it shouldn't be able to

do right?

I mean, it just doesn't make sense. At

some point in time, a question comes

across your mind, which is not like

you're dreaming, but

what would happen

if I threw something at this?

Is there that supposed force field,

right? Is it going to bounce off?

>> Is this thing going to shoot back at me?

>> What sounds it going to make? because

you'd be amazed how much you can figure

out from the sound of something.

>> Is it metal? Is it some sort of carbon

fiber?

>> Does the rock go through the damn thing,

>> right? I mean, who knows? So,

>> I'm sorry.

>> Uh, it's not about like being the

caveman and, you know, seen a giant

hawk, you know, uh, and throwing

throwing a rock. You know, I used to

pitch back in high school. Um, and, you

know, I touched some of the 80s. I'm not

what I used to be, but

>> yeah.

>> So, yeah, that was it. But it wasn't

like a rock hit it and a piece fell off

sort of um

cheesy

movie. So, did it help it? I'm sure it

didn't, but that's not necessarily the

reason. You know, there was obviously

some sort of failure for it sitting

there that long before the rock was

involved, you know.

>> Sure.

>> So, yeah. But the rock caused the pieces

to come off that you think.

>> I don't think the rock is the cause of

the piece coming off. But because a

piece came off and a rocks involved, we

just

>> it correlation.

>> As a community, everybody said, "Oh,

that's the

>> that's the reason that it

>> I'm sure it didn't help, but I'm not

saying I hit I hit a piece with it and

it that same piece fell off

automatically." sort of

just

>> so this so this thing that you film and

that a rock gets thrown at and a piece

comes off like I want to be careful here

because I do want to be clear I love

America. Uh national security is very

important to me. My father was in the

military. My grandfather fought in World

War II. I got cousins in the military. I

don't want to push any buttons I'm not

supposed to. I love talking UFOs and

aliens, but by no means am I trying to

uh put the American government or

military or national security at stake.

I That's way above my pay grade. Way

beyond my pay grade. But I'm curious. I

have to ask. I I it would just be crazy

if I didn't. Like what are we talking

about here that you saw? Was it

something ours something you don't know?

Like is this on American soil? I I don't

know how much you can say, but is this a

big thing? Is it

>> I think it's important to clear some

things up. It may not be the details

people want, but it should be some of

>> We have never done anything over

restricted space or outside of US

borders.

>> Got it.

>> So there's there's not been any sort of

laws broke. We've not snuck into

somewhere any of those sort of

>> got it.

>> Public whatever situ anybody can

>> the skies aren't classified, right?

>> Sure.

>> Yeah.

>> With that said, let's let's use Tim

Phillips's talk because he's just kind

of the bowels of of Arrow um several

times.

He says that

when he went down and looked at some of

this technology, he was amazed because

some of the people that had came in had

gave exact descriptions of it.

>> Yeah.

>> Those people felt like it was built by

off-world or alien or whatever we're

calling it nowadays.

>> Yeah.

>> In all actuality, it was built by us.

And that's Tim Phillips's own words as

>> he described it looked like a cling on

battleship.

>> Yep, I remember that.

>> So, there's your answers for that based

on what Tim's

um got it out saying. And I'll kind of

leave it there because I don't feel like

he should have said any of that. He did.

Uh once stuff's out, it is what it is.

But

>> sure,

>> when the whole rock thing happened and

the first thing happened,

there was an analysis of it. And part of

what it was is there's a certain way we

nip and tick tuck stuff as humans in us.

You know, that was something that Arrol

was concerned about is

>> they could probably look at it and

figure out who built it to a degree.

There's just certain things when you get

into aerospace um experts.

>> We were still trying to figure out is

this human or not?

>> Not even ours at that point.

Because

>> you were you you weren't you weren't

even sure. Oh, wow.

>> First Yeah. the first time you ran into

it. I mean, you know, it's it's still uh

trying to figure out what the hell is

this thing, right?

>> The first time you ran into it,

>> right? We figured out several things of

how to track it with the piece with the

signature. I don't want to go too much

into that, but

>> sure,

>> we This is not uncommon. I mean, once

you figure out paths and tracking, which

is why we don't ever give exact dates.

Um again

>> so this wasn't the first time you had

run into this.

>> This this time was the first time

>> we were trying to figure out who made

it.

>> Got it.

>> The material. And what what we found is

that it definitely goes to the human and

probably ours. And that's why I don't go

into a whole lot of

>> information. Again, if you go back into

what um I think it was actually Kirk

Patrick said on one of the different

interviews is he said, "For those of you

that came in and talked to us and you're

keeping your encounters private, we

thank you." Well, something to that

degree. And that's what he's saying is

once you start putting out dates and

times and coordinates,

you know, the first part of radar is not

a dish point at the sky. It's algorithm.

You figure out what satellites were

above it, what the conditions were, what

the path's going to be, and then you see

if lightning strikes twice. If it does,

now you've got more data for the

algorithm. You keep building. So, like

that's an important thing

>> for people to not let out and that's

always been one of the concerns.

>> Sure. Wow. So, so you essentially at the

beginning you you thought maybe this is

something unusual. I guess you said

earlier that you thought um it was doing

something it shouldn't be doing. What

does that mean?

>> Yeah, that deals with the same sort of

stuff that's described as the tic tac

encounter where you've got something

that you don't see any means of the

propulsion trail. You're not seeing or

hearing the sort of, you know, if you

ever been by a jet or a helicopter, it

is deafening.

>> Absolutely. Yeah, I've been in a

helicopter.

>> You don't have that noise. You also have

some sort of wash if it's a helicopter.

>> A lot of wash on the helicopter.

>> Everything's moving. You're talking

about blades of grass, you know, 50 foot

under that aren't even moving. Yeah. Um,

so

>> that's what I'm talking about. You You

have to question

what it is from that point. Everything

you're seeing sure looks like us but or

human tech but man you know you're just

looking at that thinking

I didn't think it was this far advanced

and then we were always waiting on like

a response team or response team never

showed up and so yeah we had questions I

mean I think any normal

>> human being should have questions.

>> Sure. Do you think this was the tick

like the tic tac? Do you think that's

what the tic tac is? It's the same

because it's around the same time,

right? You're saying early 2000s

is 2004.

>> Yeah. So, Congressman Burlesson had went

on a couple different um podcasts and

shows and talked about this, so I kind

of use his words. Um, which is that we

told him there was three generations.

Um, I wasn't going to let that out, but

he's, you know, once something's out,

it's it's out, right? So, the tic tac

would have been gen one is what we refer

to it as. Gen two, which is what we seen

the first time as generations do have

overlap. You don't just park one model

and then the next flight. So we're at

Gen 3 now. So like when people say they

see tic tacs, I don't see how that's

possible. That shouldn't be in the air

anymore. It's not that I'm saying it's

not just

>> Oh, interesting.

>> We have progressed quite a bit since the

NTS encounter. There's a lot of time

there.

>> Wow. So it it doesn't even look like a

tic tac anymore.

>> Correct. Correct.

>> Wow. This is insane. So So essentially

what you see so when you go out to to do

this that was your goal that day or

whatever your team like you were going

out to find or you just

>> No. No. We it had to do with a different

business. You know I've always been an

entrepreneur. I mean I've always worked

hard. You know I used to be the VP of a

public traded company but I'm still

investing. You know, I'm a self-made kid

from a dirt road, right? So,

>> yeah. Right on.

>> One particular business, and I'm still

hands-on. I'm not the boss type that's

like, let me hire an assistant, the

secretary, you know, I'd rather do it

myself, you know.

>> Sure.

>> So, um, we were coming home from a work

trip with particular van that had a lot

of technology in it for business. And

uh you get in the early hours of the

morning, you see lights and it's kind of

one of the things where I thought it was

a plane. Um I've got a lot of knowledge

in planes, but it was too low.

>> Got it.

>> But where it was at was too far from a

runway.

Shouldn't have been there. So I actually

stopped because I didn't want to be in

the path of a plane coming in hot,

coming in low, crash landing. There's

really only so many things that it could

have been, you know.

>> Wow.

>> So, you're sitting there, you're looking

at the clock. If anyone knows planes

land and the size of this plane, what if

it would have been a plane, I would have

said was doing would have been doing

over 100 miles an hour coming in to land

just normal. It would have got to you

quick.

>> Yeah.

>> And it just didn't. So, then it became

the questions of all of us in the van of

>> what the is it moving? You know, like

what the hell?

>> Yeah. You got the windows down, you hear

the crickets, right? Can't hear any

noise. So, you're like, "Well, it

couldn't be a helicopter." And you're

going through it. You're going through

it. And then we're like, "You didn't

just build like a damn ball field over

there." Like, you know, like one of the

guys like they like, "Field the dreams."

Like, you know, I mean, like, you just

got lights in the damn field. You know,

I mean, it made no sense.

>> So, we didn't go in like guns ablazing.

Uh I'm a very careful um planned

individual.

>> Sure.

>> And so we started to go towards the

lights and we did notice it was tracking

away from us

>> slowly and then eventually we caught up

to it and that's where the whole thing

>> whole incident occurred. Yeah. So so it

was stationary the whole time you're

observing it,

>> right?

>> Yeah. When we started to go towards it

tracked away, but when we got to it and

I don't mean I floored it. I was going

slow because we're still trying to

figure out what the world is this.

>> Even though I couldn't hear a noise, my

mind was telling me it's a helicopter.

>> And I was trying to somehow figure out

why I wasn't hearing

>> the noise.

>> You know, there's different things where

if somebody gets hurt, they may send a

helicopter. It's an emergency or you're

too far away from town.

>> Sure.

>> They've got to find a landing. There's

all sorts of stuff that, you know, the

last thing you want to do is be the the

dummy that drives into the middle of

something like that. Yeah. An emergency.

>> Well, we ended up being there and that's

Yeah, it was sitting stationary the

whole time we were there.

>> How How long was did that last if you

don't mind me asking? Like that when you

get to the point where you you stop and

now you're observing it.

>> Well, even then, we didn't get out of

the car. Um the van just

>> you're in the van the whole time.

>> No, we did get out, but I mean when we

first got there again, it's it's you're

trying to analyze what the hell is

>> going on. Sure.

>> So, you're still talking about it. You

know, I put parked the van where I was

pointing at it. I had my headlights on,

of course, and then I put my brights on

and my brights didn't really light it up

like you would have thought. Like, it

was a weird

>> interesting

>> sort of thing. So, we're already kind of

like, what the hell? You know, it's like

it's absorbing the

>> I was just going to ask that. Like, it's

absorbing the light essentially. The

only thing I can describe is like if you

had a desk and you had like a

>> probably not a 30 watt bulb, but some

little bulb screwed into it and you're

in the pitch black.

>> That bulb may shine

two foot across, but probably not to the

end of your desk.

>> Okay,

>> that's kind of what it was like, but it

wasn't a little bulb. It's your brights.

So like Got it. You know, it shouldn't

have just been

>> disappearing. you know, you should have

had some some area. Anyway, that said, I

can't go too far, but like

>> that's when we decided like we've got

technology with this. Like that's just

the next step. Nothing was uh you know,

sparks coming out of it or smoke like it

was going to blow up, right? I mean, I I

know it sounds crazy to say it seemed

safe, but you know, overall seemed

>> seemed safe. So, and then that

progressed to everybody getting out and

doing what we did in the whole

situation.

>> Yeah. How big are these like pieces that

you got? And and if you were to see if

someone that does know anything like

myself, right, were to see that piece,

would I think it's like alien? Like

would it look alien to me?

>> Um, what I'll say is the exact

measurements in the piece is on Violet

Hero and SSCI. Um,

and I'll tell you why I I'm not going to

go any further in a minute, but if you

were to see it, no. If you were to know

the possibilities of the technology,

Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> You know, if I look at you right now,

let's use some of the some of the

focuses um because they're going to

bombard us anyway. Let's really make

sure we make them mad. If I look at you,

Patrick, you're a human, right? But I

don't know, right? So that's like this

piece. If you saw this piece, you'd

probably be like, "Yeah, I mean, I don't

know. It's off some sort of airplane,

but it's what it can do." So, if you

turn to an alien right now,

>> that's kind of the same concept of look

versus performance is two different

>> Got it.

>> two different things.

>> That makes sense.

>> Real fast. I don't forget this because

people be wondering,

>> when my phone blew up, one of the

biggest things was you're in deep

Not deep legally. And this is

coming from people within the

intelligence community that I know and I

deal with and some that were involved

and I forget names.

They said Tim Phillips, keep in mind

everybody is already aware in these

committees of the death threats people

tracking me.

He has just announced to the world of

verse country spies and bad actors that

you have physical material on your

possession

the likes of which the chairman sent him

to the Nevada test range for.

Do you have any idea what spies and

countries are willing to do to get hold

of the sort of technology that we have

at the Nevada

test room? This is the gold

nugget.

They don't have to steal it. They don't

have to hack it. They don't have to send

a thousand guys to live over here and

work in our universities or try and get

a clearance.

Everybody told me, "You got to be real

careful. You got to be on your watch for

home invasion.

Everything's on the table. Kidnapping,

extortion murder.

>> Wow.

>> Don't open your front gate or your

mailbox without a cloth and throw it

away when you're done."

Some of the threats that come in have

dealt with people who will travel and

bring nerve agent

with them. And this dumbass just went on

a podcast, announced all of them. I have

physical material

on my possession. And then he took it a

step further and said if the US

government doesn't pay him, he's going

to take it or sell it to a foreign bery.

So, even the countries that weren't

aware of me

now think there's a guy that'll take

money for material the likes of which is

at the Nevada Test Rings. I mean, you

put a big like open for business sign on

me. I mean, people basically said Tim

Phillips just marked you for death.

>> They're going to get somebody killed. I

mean, you got to understand this is not,

and I know people aren't going to like

to hear this, but this is not the normal

I've seen the particular aliens or some

men in black visit me. Tim Phillips has

confirmed material pieces. OSI has

confirmed the deaths.

You do not mix those two things together

in a public forum. And I let SSCI and

their legal council, OD9, and everybody

else know in a letter uh exactly that.

Um, it's just insanity to think that a

civilian

who was asked to come in is now in this

sort of situation.

>> Sure.

What What What do you If Tim Phillips

were here right now, what what do you

think he would say? Like, well, I did it

because of this or I I said it this way

or that's what I'm trying to understand

because he doesn't seem like the type of

guy to do that. Um, but I don't know

him. I mean, I'm just I've watched a

couple interviews. Clearly, I don't know

him, but that just seems unusual

for him to put you in danger like that.

And I hear what you're saying. I I would

be terrified. So, I'm you I'm sorry that

you and your family even have to go

through that. Um, but I would just be

curious like what what what would he be

saying? Like why why what would his

response be?

>> I don't know. And the reason I don't

know is because, you know, he continued

on about

one of the staff, the committee, senator

staff, um, told him some things and

based on what they told him, uh, you

know, he's not a psychological medical

professional, but I went along around my

family. Any way you look at it, this is

a hit job. And the reason it's a hit job

is if I ever go public with my full name

in my face. An SCES who served in his

own words at the pleasure of the

president while collecting a check and

after has just said that this individual

Michael

is extorting the United States

government. That ties right to my

business. He's just said based on what

he's told from other professionals

within the Senate Committee on

Intelligence

that he wouldn't want me around his

family. How is that going to work for my

community standing? How's that going to

work as a family and kids? Do you think

other people's parents are going to want

their kids?

>> Sure.

>> My kids, do you think anyone's going to

think it's safe for me to be around

anybody, whether it be at the school or

any of the things that I'm involved in

that they know about?

He's literally ruined me

>> if I go public.

>> The point of it was is to keep me shut

the up.

>> That was the point of You have to excuse

the language.

>> Make sure there was enough there to bury

me enough where I said, "Oh god, I'm

just gonna

>> forget about it's not worth it, right?"

Yeah, it's not worth it.

>> That's why he did it. The whole How come

he did it? I can't answer remotely. All

I can say is that

>> he was terminated. We don't he didn't

clarify why. He has a very weird answer.

He's been asked several times. And what

he kind of does is he tells this

beginning story about um he was going to

retire anyway and some of the upcomers

come in. And that's great, but it's also

formatted to make you take his side

right off the bat. He starts going on

and on and on about it. And then he

somehow gets to a point where he says,

um, well, it did say terminated and, um,

it did say in the best interest of the

US government, but it was a nice letter.

It was a really, really nice letter. And

it's like the letter that just said you

were terminated in the best interest of

the government. It's a really nice

letter. The are you talking about?

And and the podcasters just like, "Oh,

okay. Yeah." So he cl Thanks for

clearing that up. So you just retired.

Yeah. They said, "Let's just process you

retired." He's never clarified why he

was terminated. He did say on his

LinkedIn that when he was terminated, he

felt like he had the right to know after

that many decades why he was denied a

pill. There's some clues here. Legally,

I can't say why he was because I don't

know. He hasn't clarified it. But I can

say I agree with the decision. Although

with that said,

not in the same step as a Kyaku or

Snowden or anybody, but sometimes

there can be a fall value. And one of

the things that was addressed with SCI

and OD and OD9 everybody was we're gonna

find out who said what to Tim Phillips

because he's already admitted that and

we we know who those people are, who

those staff members are.

>> And one of them could be I'll put an

aster there. You got to legally be

careful. One of them could be a guy who

just got nominated from the presidential

administration to leave SSCI and take

over a massive department.

um of the government. I I'd be very

interested in making sure I knew if he

if he was Astric was

one of the people that let me have it

because that would be very important to

go in and provide testimony on this

gentleman that's going to be leading a

big department. Like I said, there's so

many layers to this that people within

this aspect of only coming here and

reading, you know, stories about blurry

pictures or lights in the sky. Like this

is the real deal. When you bring proof

to SSCI, Darl, which is why I genally

said don't go.

>> Yeah.

>> If you have a story,

SSCI may or may not talk to you. They're

going to laugh at you when you're gone.

Gary loves them because that keeps them

busy. They don't take any serious. But

the only difference between me is he

said all those people were right on

their description, but they thought it

was, you know, off-road technology and

me is I went the extra step to prove it

wasn't

>> off-world technology. There really

shouldn't be anybody that only wants to

go if you have proof. You're gonna not

like what happens.

>> True.

Wow.

This is so bonkers. Um,

so in your mind, Arrow has zero

intention to really find out quote the

truth about UFOs, right? Because that's

how people think of it in this

community, right? like essentially to

just you know

>> put it in a basic sentence or do they

some maybe a little care

>> there hasn't been anything brought you

know rather than me saying what I think

I'll say the reality of of what's going

on which is that as much as people don't

want to hear it there hasn't been

anything brought to them to prove

there's these

off-road

ships. And keep in mind, it's not that

I'm discrediting the witnesses, but if

you see something

and you may or may not remember what day

or time it is and it's 10 years ago and

the the records records are gone,

they don't have to, not if they want to,

they don't have to investigate that

because they just say there's no there's

nothing for us to look at. I mean, we

got to have some sort of result. So

>> sure,

>> no one can bring them what would be

required

for them to look at it. Now I know the

NIMITs is the holy grail of um off-world

technology.

And again, you've seen what they've said

about that, right? They basically can't

find anything. They said it was a wasp,

but then got cleared up. That couldn't

have been the wasp. So

unless you have something better than

what's going, it just

I can't fairly say they don't care.

>> Yeah.

>> I don't think they've had anything in

front of them that they've been forced

to give an opinion on. Um and just on

that note,

Fraver has continually made the

statement, Commander Fraver, that um in

his mind, this is not ours.

>> Correct. And because of that,

there are people in the military who

want to know what this is. These aren't

people that care about abductions or

orbs. Every one of them is focused on

one thing and one thing only. I don't

care whose it is. Can we exploit it? Can

we reverse engineer it? It's ours now.

That's all you care about technology

that Commander Fraver says. one of these

could have came in and took out an

interior entire interior striker.

So based on that, the idea that if

technology was found, especially

off-world, that you would ever hear

about it, even if they know it's coming

from Mars or somewhere else, I still

think is 0%.

>> Wow.

>> It's just not the reality of the world

of what's going on on the inside.

>> Sure. Yeah. What people think is

happening, right? what from my position

for instance

>> keep on sharing keep on yeah tweeting at

them but I'm just telling you

>> it is what it is and

>> you have to face reality at some point

in time which is why I've kind of argued

the whole disclosure mean it's dead

because it's the same plan

>> rehashed and I know the inside of what's

going on and it's just not going to get

you there. Why does David Fraver say

like because he works for an aerospace

company like he's like I know what we

have so I know for certain it's not

ours. Does he you think he's lying on

purpose or protect you know his job and

what he's doing or does he you think he

genuinely believes it?

>> I don't know. I mean I'm 5050. What I

will say is Fraver has enough

backing to be able to say whatever he

wants. I mean um

>> Sure. I don't think people realize like

how much if you got talking to him,

you'd be amazed at how much more other

than the the NS he was involved in high

level sort of

missions and leadership. So he has that

ability to say that. Now with that said,

nobody really has a job anywhere where

we've gone through this um the Senate

and you know different things where I

feel like anybody could ever say I would

know. Um,

there's really nowhere you could work to

where you could say I would know. Um,

>> sure.

>> Lastly, I'll just say, and I'm not

picking on him, but he continually keeps

saying that that encounter happened over

something like five minutes and his only

mates had said it was closer to like

five 10 seconds or something. I mean,

there are parts of the story. The

important thing people need to know is,

and this is especially for the

debunkers, is that

everybody, even people at SOCOM and some

high level people because Fraver has

said it's not ours, they are never going

to forget about this until you get it

handled. All they want to know is about

the technology. How do we get it? We

want it to be ours. So, it's not just

the folks that want the NHI and these

sort of herrings. There is a whole

movement within the military

on this. And so

again, they get their hands on it.

You're not going to get your hands

>> on it. And information that comes in

about technology is going to go to them,

not you, whether you like it or not.

>> Sure. So people are sort of piggybacking

on the UFO

sort of, you know,

>> they are already established. They don't

have to pounce. I'm just telling you,

there's a fork in the road and and this

car is going to go straight right the

hell through it and it's going right to

the the military. It's not going

>> to the mainstream media. It's not going

to the UFO folks

>> like disclosure, right? Like everyone

said like that

>> you're not going to get it. It's just

not going to happen.

>> Sure. I mean, I honestly always thought

that myself like just doesn't make any

sense. Why would why they just open the

books like that? You know, that that's

that's not And yeah, there's no um

>> no precedent.

>> There's no And I just Yeah, I don't want

to bag on people, but like the same way

there's there's nothing you're going to

find by a council that has the rights to

20 million pages of information with a

smoking gun in there, you know, it says

Ross will happen or I mean it's just I

don't know just it it's busy work, but

busy work is different from getting to

your goal.

>> Very true. Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. I

mean Yeah.

Wow. But you know, I guess maybe a

personal question here and we can kind

of wrap it up here. Like I mean just

because we're here, I don't know what

what are your thoughts on uh do you

think it's possible that there's any

part of our government that is hiding

some sort of alien technology at all

just based on what you know.

>> I mean I get asked that a lot and keep

in mind I've always been open to

whatever the truth is, right? Like I've

got a pretty high degree and so did some

of the folks with us that night first

time

>> of aerospace and like I said we have a

team that built you know when we used to

have a space program and some other

things

even they and I did not think that we

were this far ahead on technology. So

I'm willingly publicly to admit I was

wrong.

So

because of that, I can't really say

you UFOs or NHI isn't real, you know,

just keeping the openness.

>> Now, how would I ever know if this was

>> because that's really where it hits

together is if this was reverse

engineered from something from Roswell

or something of that sort and crash

retrieval programs that are alleged.

There's no way I or anyone out there

will ever know that answer. that answer

varied and you'll never know it. So the

>> the thing I would say is

>> as much as people don't want to really

look into material science and

engineering. I know that doesn't sound

like a good podcast or a good thing to

Google, but even when you look in some

of the Nobel prizes

um that have been given for this, you

would be amazed that not just, you know,

the saying kind of goes several of the

of the PhDs that have wrote about it and

won the prizes that it's not that you're

developing a whole new material. You can

make something that's great at

something, bad sentence, something

that's bad, not great at something. It's

you're opening a whole new world and

that really is the level of you know

changes that can be made and this whole

defies physics sort of concept can

happen.

>> Yeah. You know you um you said something

earlier that um caught my eye, you know,

caught my ear. Um

you said the skies aren't classified.

Is that something you came up with?

Because I've heard that before in this

community from Jake Barber and Skywatch.

>> Yeah, I have I would like to credit

whoever said it first. I don't know. Um

>> Okay. Have you ever worked with

Skyatcher? That That's why I was

thinking like I guess that's what I'm

getting at.

>> I have not. Um

I've purposely tried to stay I've been

asked like don't you know this

whistleblower this one that one. I've

had a lot reach out to me and things in

good faith. Um, but because I want to

remain in the middle where I'm not

siding with the skeptics, I'm not siding

with the whistleblowers. Let's get some

answers. Let's everybody come back to

the table because the technology, our

technology is advanced enough to do

that. If we can get ourselves financed

and get that folder open to you. That's

my plan. That's how I write up plans

versus let's just show up every day and

>> argue about things that happened in the

40s, 50s, and 60s. Yeah. That none of us

were alive for.

>> So, I can't say that. What I will say

about Skywatcher is, and I don't I don't

know a terrible amount of them, but um

there does there is some highlevel

people. I can't validate anything

they've done or not done. Um but that's

the little bit that I know about them.

My saying uh that you can attribute to

me is that the world's changed. You just

don't know yet.

>> I like it.

>> That's my big push on people. I know

we're greatly concerned about NHI and

other life forms, but put all that to

the side. You know, when Tim Phillips is

talking about, you know, spooky things,

the places they shouldn't be with

performance that we can't replicate

today, think about what that technology

does to the world we live in today and

just kind of forget about everything

else. That's still a massive revelation

coming.

Well, also what you said about um

Senator Rounds and what he's talking

about in age of disclosure, you know,

because clearly that's being sold as a

you know, I don't care if people use UAP

or UFO in my head, they mean alien,

right? They can try to use whatever

word, but that's the implication. and if

they're trying to hide it behind

something else. So, he's essentially

using things you've, you know, told them

or your group has, right, in this film

to try to sell it as UFOs, as alien

stuff, as nonhuman when it's not.

>> I haven't seen the film. Um, there is

>> me neither.

>> One or two people that I highly respect

that were in it. Um, but with that said,

I don't know the editing. I have heard

that as well exactly what you're saying.

My hope is that it's more of a down the

middle. Although I can definitely see

the angle of aliens pretty pretty

strongly in it. But when it's said that

do you don't think for a minute that

China or Russia will try and take this

talk? It's because China and Russia has

tried to buy this from me and threatened

to kill me if they don't get it and

Senator RS has seen it with his own eyes

and all his eyes confirmed. That's that

angle.

>> Wow. Yeah. That part. Sure. Wow. I mean,

I've I've I actually had a chance to go

see it at Southby, but I declined just

because I didn't want to have seen it

and not be able to talk about it for

however long till the film came out,

right? I just I I

>> I'm I I don't like that stuff. So, I was

like, I'll just wait for everyone else

to see it. Um, but what I have heard

from people that have seen it is

absolutely about pushing the idea that

uh aliens are on Earth and we need to do

something about it. That's definitely

the push of this um for sure in the

documentary

>> or whatever that means, right?

>> I'm I'm traveling the week that it comes

out and the week after it comes out, so

I may or may not see it. That's not a

knock on the movie, but my guess is the

entire movie and clips of it are

probably going to be on

mine before I ever have to.

>> Yeah, I'll I'll be covering it, right?

Yeah.

>> Yeah. I don't know if I'll have to see

it. Maybe

>> necessarily. Um

I'm willing to see it. There are some

people I'm curious um what they said in

it. I'll wait till the movie comes out

because I've only seen the same trailer

everybody else

>> Yeah.

>> seen. But

>> you know the the main thing here is that

you know to wrap this up

Tim Phillips said this still collecting

a paycheck.

He got terminated and then into

retirement.

So he's also continued essentially

double down those claims as a retiree.

There's not any way for him to say I

don't have a right to talk to him about

it because you've said it both as an

employee and as a retiree. He spoke

about me.

>> Yeah.

>> I challenged him and it was a fair, very

uh eloquent challenge. I know it's

turned since then trying to get him to

come on after he keeps turning him down.

I said a fair moderate.

That means someone we both would have

agreed to.

>> Sure.

>> I made sure there was no expenses. I

offered to pay any of the expenses. If

it was him flying somewhere, we could do

it in person. If not, let's do it like

we're kind of doing it today. I said I

would go public. my face and my name,

right?

>> Yeah.

>> And I said I would bring receipts. I

also said he should bring any receipts

he had or he could bring anybody to

validate his story.

>> Some of those receipts I've since kind

of let out. But the point of it being is

everything he said based on even

receipts and emails from ERO and SSCI

staff that says deal deal financing over

and over and over it. all these

different things and and I've kept my

receipts. I'll just leave it at that.

And I keep all receipts, phone, uh

conference call or anything else or

email would prove he's lying.

>> Sure.

>> And I know that's the reason um he's not

accepted. It's still there. I put the

deadline as a Friday that passed.

>> Yeah. And I just want people to know

that anything he says from here on out

about me, he's doing so willingly and

intentionally without me present

to dispute it because he had that

opportunity. In other words, lies.

>> That's a fair point. You're offering to,

hey, let's get together. I'm willing to

step up. What about you? Right. So,

that's a fair point. I know he is doing

an interview with um a podcast called

Total Disclosure,

>> right?

>> I don't know if it's out or he recorded.

>> It was supposed to been yesterday. I had

everybody rally together because I was

going to be in the chat room. Chat was

supposed to been live.

>> I don't know what happened. It ended up

not being live

>> and it's got moved to Friday. Um if it's

not moved again, but I don't know

because he hasn't announced the move.

So, I don't know if that's just put it

out a little bit while I figure out

>> an exact time. And he did mention that

it may not be live now due to some he

didn't want to clear up what it was, but

it may be recorded. And then,

>> so I'm sure there's a story there. I'm

not going to get into what I think or

why, but um Sean Kurpatre in one of his

interviews did say that essentially the

intelligence agencies notified him that

his home address was showing up on the

internet and basically UFOs

and that

>> Sean Kirkpatrick Sean

>> Sean Kurpatre's address. Oh, it's

horrible. And that's essentially what

ended up happening is he had a crazy

person um

>> show up at his house. I remember that.

>> He wasn't even home. I understand it was

his wife and his daughter, which I don't

care how much you hate Katrick.

>> I agree.

>> That shouldn't be going on. Should not

>> despicable. Yeah. Despicable. So, with

that said, despicable as it is, one

thing we know now, it's essentially been

confirmed is that the intelligence

agency does monitor

these

>> the boards, the UFO boards,

>> whether it be Reddit, UAPX,

>> um, and that's shouldn't be a surprise.

Now, that's not me saying they're

running,

you know, disinformation and all the

other sort of stuff, but we know they're

watching. So, they damn well know about

what's going on between me and Tim

Phillips and the things going on. So,

>> odds him when he talks.

>> I mean, honestly, I was, if I'm being

frank, I was kind of surprised that,

nothing against that podcast or what,

you know, I I don't know that guy. I've

met him one time um that runs that show,

but I was a little surprised he's going

on that show, and I'm just surprised

he's still doing interview. It's like,

what is he talking about? What What is

he going to

Yeah, I just got asked that. Um, there's

ones that didn't even really make it on

to Twitter that have less than like a

100red views. And you got to wonder,

this guy was at roundts that were invite

only and international conferences and

now he's really

taking some odd um interviews. I my

answer was I don't have an answer, but

yeah, it's got to be the weirdest. Um,

>> the only thing

>> I reached out to the to the gentleman,

the host of that, and did say to him,

um, please just don't go along with what

he says about me. I'm not telling you

how to do your job. You form your own

opinions. But one of the things I

continually see when he says something

because he sets it up so damn well

is the podcast will repeat it. You know,

there was one where he went into it and

the the podcast host was like, "Well,

no, man. I mean, as soon as you said it

was American Tech," I was like, "That's

not even his." you know, like, you know,

like that never happened, buddy. You

just bid on a you know,

>> sure

>> false story and now you're repeating it

because that's how the snowball gets

>> sure

>> go. So, you know, the only thing my ask

was on that is to make sure because he

won't let me on there to say that's not

true and prove it with your seats. If

you have Tim Phillips on, I don't hate

you. That's what hosts do. You get

people whether they're controversial or

not. just when it gets to me. No, he's

saying that purposely without me there

disputing.

>> Sure. No, I think this is

>> I think this is good. I I wanted to give

you an opportunity. Um Tim's done lots

of interviews and I thought, you know

what, you haven't had a chance to

explain yourself and people can decide

for themselves

um you know what you're saying, but I

think it's absolutely important to hear

um both sides. And I totally hear where

you're coming from. I I think this will

help dispel a lot of the rumors that are

out there about you um that I've heard

in my own Discord. Um some of the stuff

I've heard, right? I told you exactly

what's out on the street, what people

are saying. Like that that's how they

see it. This will clear up a lot because

it's it's um it's honestly it's not even

close to what the real story is

essentially.

>> Yeah. Well, believe whatever you want,

but just again ask yourself about the

world we're living in here. Like,

imagine

>> an SCS serves at the leisure of the

president going on a podcast and

accusing an American civilian

of extorting

the government.

>> So odd

>> that he got told things and make him say

it wouldn't be safe to have around his

family. That

>> yeah,

>> I'm going to sell it to another country.

I mean, um, at what level is this okay?

I mean, that's really the question.

>> I agree.

>> Sure. Yeah. You would think that like he

had a foolproof,

you know, evidence or receipts or plan

to say something like that because that

is so that's a huge accusation. I don't

know if you're a if you're a, you know,

um, full-blown patriot, right, and

really love this country, that that is

quite literally the worst accusation

that can be heralded against you,

especially as someone who's trying to

work with the government, right? You're

trying to extort the government and be a

traitor. Like, what what worse

accusation is that? Like, that that is

it's horrible.

>> Yeah. I mean, I know we're trying to get

off here, but I want to say something

about that, which is when we ran into

the Invention Secrecy Act, and you can

go to every member of SSCI's YouTube

channel, they all have them, every

senator, and just type in China, and

there are multiple videos. Some of them

are known as China hawks, moaning and

groaning about China and the China

leadership, dictatorship, and going on

on.

They know about the invention secrecy

act. So, if I was to say to you, pick a

country Patrick

that does this and then tell you they

take things from inventors that they

didn't fund, that wasn't made for them,

that could help the world out, power

sources or whatever it may be, and they

take it in a way that even though

they're supposed to pay, they don't. And

the legal will show that there's several

articles out about it.

And then they lock you into an NDA where

you can't speak to anybody of your own

spouse about it. What country does that?

>> It hurts me to say as a proud American.

>> Maybe it probably is China, Russia, and

the rest of them, but it's our own

country. And someone's going to

unfortunately has to speak up. My

grandfather who was in a World War II

and had a life of problems because of

just being on a couple ships that got

brought down and floating in the water,

especially when you get into some cold

water is not the greatest for you. Lead

pipes, asbestous walls, and paint, you

know. Yeah.

>> Was always

happy to say that he would have fought

that war again because some people

didn't get to come home

>> and it was really the war of freedom.

>> Wow.

>> It had to be done, right?

>> Yeah.

>> But with that said, and some of the

finances we had to use on this that were

family assets, he gave us permission to

sell them because he said, "This isn't

what I fought the war for. This sort of

invention secrecy act that's

>> going on." like, you know, we're

supposed to have constitutional rights.

So, being a proud patriot

and being accused of the things like

this from Tim Phillips, I hate to use

the mainstream media title, but like

this really needs to be discussed on

bigger

platforms to get this guy pinned down

enough to where there needs to be a

retraction of that statement. I asked Si

and Arrow and neither one of them have

answered that back.

man. Well, look, um

I can try to reach out to Tim and see if

he'll let me mediate something between

both of y'all.

>> I I think you owe that and I don't mind

doing that.

>> I would greatly appreciate it. Several

more than several I would guess. I won't

go to the amount but it's a high amount

of people um who I didn't ask to reach

out to Tim but took it upon themselves

to reach out to them did send me the

correspondence back and forth and it

seems to be that he's kind of playing it

with the Denver team. It's like why

would Michael want to talk to me and you

know I gave an analogy on one of the

spaces somewhere where it was like

because UAPX is so much like high

school. I was saying it's like there's

there's no comparison to what just

happened. Like I don't think people

understand how crazy this just

went down. Extortion from a guy who's an

SCES, you know, this is insane.

>> I agree. But the best thing I can say is

if you were a high school kid

claim that someone was only going to

start the football game at quarterback

because their dad knows the coach and

he's only dating this girl because he's

rich and he's only got straight A's

because you know you talk all day

long and at lunch someone comes up to

you like, "Hey Patrick, Mike wants to

talk to you." There's a certain amount

of person that's like, "Oh boy, here it

comes." Or there's always that kid

that's like, "Huh, what what do they

want to talk to me about?" And like

that's the Tim.

>> He doesn't know. He he can't figure out

what Michael would want to.

>> He's playing dumb. Like what do you mean

>> playing the dumb, right? So with that

said, if I would be glad for you to

reach out to him

again, we can have a very civilized

conversation.

Everybody will have cop copies of all

the receipts beforehand. There's no

surprise.

>> Sure. you know, and we can work through

it. And I'm more than glad to have that

conversation.

>> No, I appreciate that because I mean,

I'm on the outside, too, and I I I would

like to speak to him and get his side of

the story from this and why he would say

that, what, you know, because it just

seems so unusual. And you've been very

professional and respectful in all of

our communications and today as well.

Um, and um, I see nothing wrong with it.

And that's the way I run my channel. I

would absolutely mediate it um

objectively and um give him a chance to

speak, give you a chance to speak and

and keep it very civil. So, if you can

help me with I don't have his contact

info, so maybe if you know offline you

can help me if that's possible. I don't

want you to have to reveal anything you

don't. I mean, I I guess I can try to

find it on my own, but um

>> I'll tell you the little bit I know

based on people that have reached out to

him um and go from there. But again,

it's

It's needed not just out of what's owed

to me, but within a community of even a

country to have something like this

happen, again, you just can't go into

how insane this is.

>> Sure.

>> There needs to be a discussion

about this. Again, the same people that

were working with me to get this done

before I ended up at SSCI to fund it,

the same people that briefed SSCI how to

fund it, even after all this crazy stuff

with Phillips, the same people that are

still with me that want to get things

that are invention secrecy related to

our people. That's you're always better

working together.

>> Yeah.

>> Brief Burles on how to get it funded. No

one's left me. It's just this crazy

story that's really trying to ruin me.

and let's talk it out and let everybody

see it. You'll see my face. You'll see

my whole name.

>> Sure.

>> Let's talk.

>> Sure. All right. Well, I'm gonna try to

make that happen and fingers crossed. Um

but look, Michael, I just want to say

that um yeah, I really appreciate you

coming on, man. And I appreciate cander

and your u um you know, honesty and just

willing to talk and I've really enjoyed

this conversation. I'm really I I don't

like to hear that you feel that you and

your family and your life is in danger.

And I I understand the seriousness of

those allegations. Again, I I'm

dumbfounded. They're they're

extrrenuous. They're It's the highest

accusation you could throw at somebody

in this situation. So, um I'm sorry. I'm

glad you Yeah, I'm glad you let me come

on here and talk because normally it's

just you know

non-stop

NHI who built the tech non-stop trolls

uh you know Phillips is confirmed I have

what I have one guy want to know how'd

you pay for it and it's like why would I

tell a random guy on the internet how

would that be a valid question if he's

already confirmed I have

>> you know it's like that and this is

really I thought was good just time to

come on and actually speak and talk

about things that are going on. But

yeah, that's the absolute

worst accusation and unfortunately it

came from one of the highest type of

rankings and individuals still getting a

paycheck when he said it. You know, my

grandfather always felt like uh Oswwell

was the guy because he got a

dishonorable discharge. Like that's the

sort of environment I grew up in is like

you know you go against your country

you're the worst human being you know I

mean like

>> absolutely possible. So and then to have

this come out it's insane. So I

appreciate the time time from you here.

>> Of course Michael absolutely and and if

we need to do it again let's do it. I'm

definitely going to try with uh Tim and

um you know we'll just go from there. So

again, man, just appreciate you coming

on and chatting.

>> Hi. Yeah, I just wanted to mention

Stephen Greer, Dr. Steven Greer has gone

into detail quite extensively about what

he calls the red flag or false flag

situation where the government's going

to try to make everybody think there's

really all this hostile alien thing

happening when it and that will be their

excuse to arm.

So maybe you should check out

what Dr. Steven Greer has to say about

that. I was just watching your show that

called uh Jeremy Corbel comes clean

about uh ThreeI Atlas. I enjoy your

show. So does my husband. Thank you very

much for what you do. Bye.