Extended interview: Billie Eilish

[Music]

let's talk about touring CU how was the

last time you toured before now yeah

well now they like to be like oh oh the

last tour ended and this is a new tour

but the last show I did was literally a

year AG go which is not not that long no

but you're touring you're touring in a a

different way now correct how's it

feeling it's feeling really good

actually is it it's super it's like very

similar in a lot of ways but also a very

different thing how's it different well

I don't have my brother yeah and I've

never done a show without my brother in

my life I mean I've barely performed and

sung without my brother like ever um I

don't have my parents on the road I mean

they're coming out to visit and that's

been like amazing but you know I don't

have like the same kind of structure

that I had before and then also I'm

playing in the round which I've never

done before and

that surp I guess surprisingly to me I

guess it shouldn't be so surprising but

it is is a completely different

experience for me like completely

different I don't know how does it feel

different it's like well I'm never

really off stage I'm kind of always like

I can't turn around and then feel like

I'm not there looking at somebody yeah

yeah so there is the funny thing when

you turn around you can pretend the

audience is behind you yeah so I can't

really feel like anyone's behind me I'm

like I'm always on the stage yeah um and

also there's just everyone is everywhere

so I I have to make sure that I'm like

giving everyone an equal amount of

like me yeah you know and like I I want

to be even with that I want to like be

you know have favoritism in the crowd

but it's been amazing it's honestly like

what I do love about the round is that

it seems that every single person in the

entire audience has a good view yeah

that's what's really cool about it yeah

did you have to prepare yourself kind of

emotionally for going out without your

brother I yes but I also didn't know

that like we we talked about that

happening like two years ago yeah and

it's been you know a known thing within

our family for two years and so I kind

of was like I know it'll it'll be great

and it's what we both you know it's

what's right and whatever and then like

two weeks until I was going to leave

came and we were both

like was getting a little bit M sad and

just Bittersweet and like emotional and

then the couple days before I left were

just like kind of a mess but panic

attacks what would you just a little

just a little choked up yeah every time

I'd talk about it or think about it and

Phineas was so sweet about it and he was

like you know this is the way it is

right now but like if you

ever need me I will get on a plane as

soon as you want which is really sweet

that's a good brother and then he also

like you know it's like they're not on

tour with me but like you know he

immediately came to New York and played

that show with me and my parents were

there and then we were all in New York

he played all three shows there so it's

been amazing really once you once you

got on the road you were okay well I I

really PL you know what instead of like

preparing emotionally like I did prepare

emotionally but the thing that I really

did was

uh

planned uh to not be lonely like I I

really I was like okay taking my best

friends as my openers hiring a couple of

my best friends as my backup singers

yeah hiring more band members bringing

another of my best friends to work on

tour you know bring my mom out bring my

dad out for make sure we're going to the

park make sure we're playing games make

sure we're you know getting food going

out going on walks like I really that's

the thing that I really planned and also

like tour has been such a depressive

experience in my life so much and I

really in theast in the past I just

didn't want to I was like I kind of I've

said this before but I had like a

realization where I was like oh this

isn't just like a temporary thing that I

have to suffer through like I can make

this enjoyable it should be enjoyable

and it's also like I love I love doing

the show so much yeah that I shouldn't

have to just be miserable up until the

show it should be like the whole day is

you know obviously it's like travel and

it's tiring and it's gruesome but yeah

it's fun well it's I mean if you have

the show itself to look forward to

that's a big thing yes you like being

out there I do yeah and you don't have

any stage fright about going out there

or anything like that no no no yeah no

not at all I feel like how do you how do

you feel when you're out

there I feel I feel different on

different nights yeah um I

feel well the way that my show starts

like this specific to her I'll just talk

about this one because that's the one

that I'm on and the one I just started

but the way that the show starts is

there's this big intro that you know I

have this big cube in the middle of the

stage and it lights up and then it

pulses and then it raises up and you

know spoiler alert I'm in the cube but

you can't see me right but what's really

interesting and nobody really knows this

because they can't see the other side

but the cube is is is a bunch of um like

screen walls mhm and they're white and

so on the outside it's like a super

bright white screen yeah but on the

inside they're not a screen and I can

see fully through them ah but I'm not

lit up at all so they can't see me but I

can literally see everybody so well from

inside this box it's a

very crazy it's like it feels like I'm

wearing an invisibility cloak like I and

I'm up there right there for like an

entire minute before they can see me

surreal them for a couple minutes that's

a luxur that's a luxury you don't have

most of the time no that's true that's

true but it also makes me feel a little

like I'm not real so I kind of have to

like remember that like oh now they can

see me and yeah we're together um but

also like when I'm on stage what do I

feel I

feel I feel

so free in my body like so so free in my

body and I also really do

not

experience any kind of stage fright or

even nerves really at all

yeah I'm like is that good I don't know

I think it well I think it is a lot of

people have it yeah of course and it

feels totally natural I mean some people

will say if you don't have it that's not

a you know there's something wrong but I

get it I mean it's nice that you don't I

think it's great that I have like little

pieces of it yeah

like but also I have it in random

moments but also it's like it's less

nerves and more just excitement and less

like oh God what if it's bad it's more

just like you know I need it to be I

want it to be like this and I'm eager

and it's just more of like a

adrenaline excitement and less of a fear

or nerve nervousness you know that's

great yeah it's pretty awesome when I

think about how your music is made you

know in phineas's basement basically

yeah um it's such an

intimate creative experience to go from

that to you know 20,000 people or

whatever it is yeah there's something

super um like almost paranormal about

like making music yeah with your brother

in your you know family home or

phineas's home or his you know the yard

and it's like no one's heard it and no

one this isn't paranormal what I'm

getting to is Paranormal but like no

one's heard it except maybe your friend

or your mom or you know and it's this

like intimate it's like you know writing

something in your notes that's like some

feeling of yours or journaling or

whatever and then you put it out in the

world and people connect to it and then

then aside from connecting to it the

fact that they just know it at all can

hear it are listening to it is so weird

and insane and but at the same time you

kind of have no proof that that's

happening until you're on stage and like

the first show of this tour was in

Quebec City

and I started singing the greatest which

is like one of my favorite songs that

Phineas and I have written and just a

song that I was feel really I just feel

really proud of and love and also isn't

a big song right and I like started

playing it and got to the pre chorus and

like took my one of my in ears out and I

just I like looked around the room and I

could just hear you know

25,000 people humans singing along to

this

song that until that moment was just

like this private intimate you know

personal scary vulnerable thing for me

yeah and then it's you hear it in with

thousands of people saying it and it's

just like the most amazing form of

connection that I know yeah I want to

talk to you about voice because you've

talked a lot

about using your voice on this record um

and I read something that you said a

while back or maybe it was just sort of

been the runup to the release of this um

about at least how until until recent

recently you really didn't identify as a

singer right which I find surprising

it's a little stupid right it's not

stupid I just silly it's just

interesting that you didn't think of

yourself that way well let me clarify

because it's more that I've I've loved

singing more than anything for like my

whole life yeah but it felt so normal to

me that I loved singing like I didn't

feel yeah it was never something that I

you know felt the need to you know

parade around like I never felt like I

had to you never thought of it as a job

description right exactly and I would

never like I remember growing up with

kids who'd be like I'm a singer yeah and

I remember hearing that those words and

I'd be like interesting cool okay and

that never I just never wanted to I I

never like singing was never my

personality like you know how like

singing is some little kid's personality

for me it was this like and it might

sound like me of me or whatever but like

it was just this that was mine M and

like people didn't really know I even

cared about singing it was just like

something that was special to me yeah

and also to me it felt like an obvious

like it was like I was like duh of

course I love singing it's my favorite

thing in the world so anything that I

would talk about loving you can you can

you know I can promise you I didn't love

it as much as I love singing and so to

me that was obvious so I never really

felt like I needed to be like well I'm a

singer that's yeah that's part of my job

description one of the things I do is

I'm a singer right and I also you know

was kind of told for so many years that

I wasn't a singer because a singer has a

big you know Powerhouse voice and you

know was who told you you weren't a

singer the whole

internet like honestly and also every

single uh you know music

uh whatever those shows are called like

all of those audition music shows every

single show that I loved so much growing

up watching you know all of those Talent

got whatever MH that I loved that I you

know every judge on those shows would

just be like you know if you're a soft

singer then that's not enough like you

can't that's you need to do more I need

more I need you to project and I need

you know I need you to be able to Bel

these really high notes and do all these

crazy runs and so I kind

of just thought I W I wasn't like I

couldn't do those things and so I was

like oh I guess that's not like I

watched people on those

shows um you know have really beautiful

soft voices and they get rejected

because of that and so I thought okay

well then that means like I'm I'm not a

real singer because I can't really do

that so okay whatever I love singing but

I guess I'm not a singer yeah and

because I also sang kind of quietly when

I started out and I kind of people

always said I whispered you know that

was the whole thing that I whispered and

I was you know it was really really

quiet and soft and stuff it's

like yeah there was a lot of like oh

well because of that that's not real

singing um so I always had this kind of

idea that I wasn't really a good singer

but I honestly like it didn't really

matter to me beach it was just kind of

an

annoying thing just like floating around

some weird judgment that people made

yeah but as I've grown up my voice has

grown up and gotten stronger and better

and about like two years ago is I I had

never really done any like singing

lessons aside from like growing up in a

choir and stuff yeah and I met someone

who I started working with and um doing

singing lessons with and I kind of had

this idea that like you know oh if you

can sing then you don't need to do

singing lessons singing lessons are for

people that can't sing yeah and like

singing lessons are for anybody yeah you

you don't have to you can just do them

yeah and what I didn't really know

until I started doing it was like it's

an instrument that you can practice and

and you know improve and like I can't

even tell you how

amazing the experience of of you know

working on my instrument has been right

and that being my voice it's it's like

I've never felt so connected to myself

and

more like now I believe in myself so you

thought singing was yours it was very

purely you yeah I thought that doing a

singing lesson would mean that I'm not a

singer or like I'm can't sing somehow

yeah I thought it was

like like I would I remember my mom

would be like you should do singing

lessons and I'd be like why I'm not I'm

not a singer like I don't yeah why would

I yeah what would I be doing that for

what am I working on yeah and cuz it was

this like precious thing of mine it's

kind of like when when you love a show

like a TV show so much and then somebody

else is like I love that show and you're

like okay

leave me alone about it that's my show

you know the way I do you don't yeah you

don't know it the way that I know it and

I think that's kind of how I felt about

it I don't know but like you have to

think about like the greatest you know

the the most talented people at the

thing that you like doing take lessons

they have a teacher you know the

greatest you know tennis players all

have coaches yeah you know every athlete

has a coach yeah the best in the world

they don't you don't just like get good

and then you just stop it's just not how

it works and I don't think I really

understood that or like could allow that

to happen and I also have always been

scared of being bad at stuff yeah and

because of my kind of insecurity of like

well I'm not a big singer so I'm not a

good singer I was worried that a singing

teacher would just tell me I wasn't a

good singer yeah and that's not

true it's it's I guess there's a fear

that you're going to give something up

yeah or it's going to change you yeah

yeah but instead it's empowering yeah

it's amazing it's like the greatest

thing I've ever gotten to do yeah what's

great about it for

you I mean it's it's like growing it's

growth yeah have you have you found some

part of yourself you didn't even know

was there yeah yeah oh yeah I mean my

voice like I I I can't tell you how much

like how many results I've seen yeah

like I didn't know that was going to

happen I didn't know that was possible I

thought like yeah this is the voice that

I have and it is the way it is you know

and I'll never be able to do a run like

that I'll never be able to Belt that

note I'll never have this range and I'll

never you know sing this low of a note

or it's just not true like it's just not

and it's like I can't express how

gratifying and satisfying and fulfilling

it has been yeah to like learn these

things about my own voice that's in my

body that I didn't even know MH I was

capable of it's liberating it's so

liberating yeah and it's just fun it

just feels good and it's also like it

can be emotional like it makes you get

out of your it's like pushes you out of

your comfort zone which is always scary

obviously yeah and you know sometimes it

can make you cry like I've had sessions

where I'm like you know singing

something that just

doesn't is just a little bit scary and

not in my

comforting blanket world yeah

and once you do it it's like it feels

like liberating yeah well there you open

up a whole world of possibilities I know

it's amazing yeah you were when you

started making this record were you

already taking vocal lessons barely

barely barely like a little bit because

you reached on this record in the ways

that you had before and I wouldn't have

been able to had an up in for the

lessons that I then started to take

during making of it yeah yeah that's

really cool I know it's really cool and

it's even crazier like you know the

album is really really fresh for me and

it feels still like we just made it cuz

we did yeah but like you know I last

night performed a couple of the songs

acoustic um with my brother for this

event and

like even now you know a a half a year

later and like my voice is just a

completely

new I I just have all these new choices

that I can make and I'm singing these

songs that when I was recording them

were the hardest songs I'd ever recorded

and I couldn't hit the notes and I

couldn't do it and I was stressed out

and you know scared and and now I hit

them like it's nothing and I do I can

change them and I can play with them and

it's like yeah God it's amazing like

learning is so amazing I cannot stress

enough how

incredible it feels to learn yeah H and

it's also like it's I I just suffer from

just being so worried about being bad at

stuff and I just I'm like I you know I

think I have that thing that a lot of

people have or you don't want to try

something new because you don't want to

be bad at it yeah and it's like yeah but

then you get better why why do you think

you have

[Music]

that why do I think I have where does

that come

from um I think it comes from in my

experience

yeah a few things the first thing that

comes to my mind is like being the only

girl in a

sport uh in a league like

that oh my God I saw a post last night

that was like that was like here's a it

was like an amazing video of like a

little girl skateboarding with a bunch

of boys and I was like wow that's

amazing but it the caption was like see

just proves that like kids don't see

gender or

age I was like uh what are you talking

about like being a young girl an

athletic young girl wanting to be in

like sports and like yeah do different

active things was literally like the

scariest part of my whole life like to

this day like

auditioning trying out for a sport and

you're the only girl or whatever is

like so scary and the 12-year-old boys

are truly like still the scariest beings

in the world to me just because I was

that kid and I think I've I've always

been afraid of being bad at something

because when you're a

girl and you're bad at something

once then all the boys think you're bad

at that forever yeah

and that's kind of how it felt like

being a young girl and like all those

classes and stuff is like if you messed

up once they just never passed to you

again and um I think I I always will

carry that kind of okay well then I have

to be really good immediately yeah or

I'm never going to get past the Frisbee

or whatever it's like that's the stuff

you end up trying to sort out for the

rest of your life I know I know it's

like and hopefully you get close MH I

also think it just comes from being a

competitive person yeah and just always

always being I've always been the most

competitive person since I was a little

kid and I think anyone who's competitive

wants to be the best at what they do

yeah are you competitive with yourself

as

well yes I was going to say I don't know

but actually yes for sure yeah I'm not

like toxically competitive but I'm

definitely like well are you I mean

you're athletically competitive yeah are

you artistically competitive with myself

yes

yes but I would say only when

I'm yeah I am but it but honestly it's

more of like an inspirational thing I

don't think it's as much like I have to

beat that last thing I did I think it's

more like that thing I did I feel really

good about and it was really cool I have

to do something equally as cool yeah or

cooler it's not like I'm bad

now I was better then or vice versa it's

kind of like just taking inspiration

from different times but I

definitely I mean it's easy to do this

when your whole life is on camera but I

definitely like romanticize different

periods of my life and then feel a sort

of compet competitiveness with the

period of my life yeah in a way where I

like am trying to

beat that period of my life with this

period it's I don't know it's weird well

you want it to be as good as it was then

yes yeah yeah that could drive you nuts

yeah it

does yeah and it's like all

filmed so I don't know I couldn't I

don't know how you do that yeah see so

when when you sit down to make a record

because I think so much of the challenge

for an artist at at various points in

life is what what makes them want to

make something right you know yeah and a

lot of times it's the chore of you know

the order from the label that we need a

record or whatever it is yeah um and

from what I understand you were never at

least until recently you didn't think of

yourself so much as a song

writer yeah has that

changed it's changed I've had a lot of

Revelations real recently yeah

um and a few of them being that

I like honestly I've just really grown

up around the most talented people like

my family yeah you know I I have the

most talented brother he's the most

talented person I know you know and like

such an incredibly talented mom

incredibly talented dad and like that's

the kind of thing that is so supportive

like it makes you like strive to be

better but also you're like whoa they're

really good like what if I can't be that

good but I think I think it did more

good for me than bad I really feel like

I I was almost only just inspired by

that yeah but I bring this up

because you know for instance I like I

just produced a song for a couple of my

friends and it's the first song I've

ever produced myself right for someone

else and when we like started working on

it I was like well just so you guys know

like I'm not I'm not really good at

producing like I don't really know

what I'm doing on logic and they're like

okay well we don't really know either

and then we like open the session and

I'm like you know doing all these things

and they were like what are you talking

about you know you totally know what

you're doing and I think I'm just like

oh well I'm just so used to you know I

I've learned from my brother my brother

is so good that I think I I'm better

than I thought because the better is

Phineas the Phineas is better and I

think like you know the other like I've

always been like I'm not a very good

cook my mom is the greatest cook in the

world

and like the other day I was making

dinner and my friend was like you're a

great cook like you're you're great at

this and I think it's like oh well my

mom's the best cook I know so I didn't

know that and I think like with

songwriting I had a little bit of that

I'm I'm with Phineas dude like

he's the greatest songwriter and and

he's so fast and he's so smart and

thoughtful and like just like hits it

right where it's just like mhm really

amazing

and I think that the difference is that

because I grew up with Phineas you know

he his passion is songwriting yeah and

my passion has never been songwriting my

passion is music yeah and Performing and

singing and songwriting is something

that I do so that I can then sing it and

perform it the people that I know that

are real song writers and that's what

they call themselves they do it to

survive and for me I do it to then sing

right and it's really interesting how

many artists who would say they're

songwriters first and they're singers

second I know yeah I know you don't have

that feeling I feel like I'm I'm neither

first I'm I'm has with this record did

your attitude towards songwriting change

at all it did it totally did yeah and

interestingly to what I'm saying like it

it I did like way more writing on this

album than anything ever I mean yeah you

know I've been writing but this is the

thing I'm trying to say is that like

I've been writing music since I was 11

right but

because I wasn't as fast at it or it

wasn't as good as my brother I kind of

thought oh I'm not a songwriter yeah um

but the truth is like if I was an only

child in a household with no music and

no musicians it'd be like Billy is the

song writer like that would be the thing

I think sometimes when you grow up in

the shadow of somebody who is very good

at something you cannot see your own

talent in that particular thing totally

totally get that yeah experienced a

version of it myself yeah but it what's

interesting to me is you're talking now

about two things in in the last year or

so one is you've discovered a part of

your voice you didn't even know was

there and you've discovered you're more

of a songwriter than you ever thought

yeah where does that leave

you great question

I don't I we'll see I don't know I mean

it left me in a very

daunting uh

intimidating album making process

because um you know it was a mixture of

it was it was two things that were

happening it was like me being more

inspired than ever to make music and

Phineas being the least inspired he's

ever been and Phineas and I were you

know how siblings are and families and

relationships and friendships everything

does this but like when you're kind of

not in the same frequency groove right

and so this was a period of time when

Phineas and I obviously were super close

and nothing was weird but it was just

like we were kind of just a little bit

uneven in

our in our kind of GrooVe like you said

you were in different places different

places

and I think also we didn't really know

what what to say yeah and I think

Phineas was I mean I know Phineas was

having like a lot

of kind of crises about feeling like he

had nothing to say yeah and like nothing

he had to say was interesting yeah and

it was really interesting to me because

that's how I felt for so many years and

I always had Phineas to like lean back

on and be like oh well I'm not inspired

but you always do it you always get a

there and you always bring the lyrics

out of me and in that moment did you

feel

alone yeah totally yeah and also that's

not phineas's fault I mean yeah I think

why it was scary was I was like seeing

myself in him yeah and I was like I was

basically just he was just being me from

the last four years yeah and so I was

just

like oh my God what do I do with this

like this was my that was my role to be

the kind of like I don't want to make an

album yeah I don't want to write I don't

have anything to say and because that

was kind of going on and also because he

could tell I was feeling

inspired we switched we physically

switched places in the studio without

really even meaning to like we made all

of happier than

ever um

with him at the desk and me on the couch

like laying there and you know it was an

equal process like we both made 50/50 of

the album but with this one I was at the

desk and he was at the couch for a lot

of it until we both were at the desk and

we were both doing the equal amount and

like he there were moments where like

you know it used to kind of be like we

would sit there

and and come up with stuff and if I just

got a little like you know a

little repetitive and not coming up with

anything he'd just like

come up with something and and instead

he waited he just waited me out yeah

until I came up with it

and it was so scary for me because I'd

never really done that and again I've

never really enjoyed the songwriting

experience right what did what did you

find when he did that I found that I at

first would

be you know why aren't you why aren't

you helping me why aren't you coming up

with anything mhm and then in just being

given that

space I'd I'd come up with it and like

he kind of said that like with this

album he he's he's always been so used

to writing so fast and coming up with

things super fast but that doesn't

always yield the greatest results yeah

it yields the the quickest results yeah

but he he has told me that like part of

what he did for this album and writing

this album with me was he just would

wait a little bit longer yeah until I

came up with you

know the idea and then he would come up

with like the great idea and then I come

like it was so you know saying that one

of us made this album is just wrong we

both we both equally made this album

it's as much his as it is mine and well

it's I mean

a lot can happen in that silent space

right you need that yeah you do you

can't be

creative if you have no room yeah you

know yeah you have to respect

it because there's all kinds of stuff

down there all kinds of

stuff when we talk to him I guess it was

at the end of last year like probably

December he had talked about how um

how you'd you guys had actually you were

at a point where you were actually

pretty pretty stuck oh yeah yeah and are

you I mean are you familiar with that

place are you are you comfortable in

that place when you get stuck it never

is comfortable no it never you never get

used to it you never remember it like

yeah it happens and you're like what the

hell right you're like I'm never going

to create again that's really how it

feels yeah you don't say to yourself oh

I've been here before it's going to be

all right it feels like when you're you

have a cold and your nose is stuff and

you're like my nose has never been not

stuffy and it will never be again it

feels like that it really does yeah and

you also like can't remember how it felt

to breathe like that's how it feels when

you have that kind of you know what they

call writer block and Phineas and I kind

of have this whole look and view on

writer's block that writer's block is

like kind of a mental state like it's

not really real because you don't really

have writer block you feel like you're

you know you're not you're not like

overflowing with with inspiration and

you're not making anything you think is

good but you can make anything like you

you know you just might think it's

really bad and you know I think writer

block is something we hide behind when

we're feeling insecure and bad about

ourselves and we're like well I have

writer block and it's a very real

feeling but I

think it's like so easy to be hard on

yourself when

you aren't feeling creative but really

it's

like you know sometimes you can't force

it like sometimes it's like maybe it's

not writer's block maybe it's your body

being like please go take a bath yeah

like God go to sleep you know like we

don't need to be doing this right now

and or it's you know or it's maybe today

is the day you need to write something

really bad yeah and maybe it'll give you

an idea to write something good yeah you

know it's

like there's no writer block there's

there's fear there's fear um and I've

suffered from that an enormous amount

yeah and truly like making Hit me hard

and soft especially in the kind

of beginning no honestly the entire the

entire making of that album but it was

like it was

like December January end of 22 into 23

yeah where we were just completely

like just like hopeless I mean we were

just like oh well we're never G to yeah

we're never going to make this we don't

we can't we're not capable of it anymore

we used to be able to make music and

that's probably because I was 15 and

Phineas was 19 and there was something

special about it and now that we're

adults and we have our own lives and

people like us like we can't do it

anymore we've lost it I genuinely

believed that yeah and it was terrifying

and it felt like I'd never felt it

before even though I had yeah and it

just took

like just took some like patience and

like yeah talking about it and you know

allowing yourself to be bad for a second

like that's that is so important they to

suck as they say just suck

yeah also boredom is part of the process

it's like 100% right yeah I think you

gota you got to leave your your mind the

room to just go inside of itself also

experience like go you know go live a

little bit you don't have to worry about

getting something done right now you can

go you know go experience and have

something to say I something you said

interested me because you've talked

about how sometimes you don't like

yourself in relationships because you

don't like feeling vulnerable

yeah how do you write songs then if you

feel that way it's really hard it's very

difficult for me um because songs are

all about

vulnerability

yeah is that a conversation with

yourself about opening yourself up and

willing being willing to be that or what

happens to be honest I have a really

hard

time like two things I have a really

hard like if I'm writing on my own yeah

it's really hard hard for me to write

about my own experience in the moment

and

it's a million times easier for me to

write about somebody else somebody

else's life somebody else's view

something that happened to somebody else

or even something that happened to me

years and years ago but it's it's it

happened I'm not in it

and like so you can write about Barbie

yeah I was going to say that like when

we were in that complete dead patch of

like we can't make anything we saw that

movie and honestly like Greta said

something to us in that period of time

she knew she was like I know you guys

are in this you know album process and

I'm sure it's really challenging and

honestly sometimes I like to have a a

reason to procrastinate or like a a

little um distraction yeah a little like

other what's it called in video games

when you have like a oh a little side

hustle or whatever you call it like

that's kind of she she said that she was

like it's sometimes it's nice to like oh

a side quest there you go she was like

sometimes it's nice to have a little

side quest that you have to go on to

then get back to what you were doing

yeah and that really honestly I got to

give it to that song that that that song

really like kind of kind of sort of

saved us a little I mean really brought

us out of

a

uninspired whole yeah um honestly it's

why I it's why I and I work so well

together MH is that I it's hard for me

to see what's going on in front of me

yeah and Phineas knows me better than

anyone and I know him better than anyone

mhm

and the reason I can be so vulnerable is

cu it's my brother when I look at videos

of us writing music it's literally the

almost the entire video is just me being

like well and I also feel like you know

if I did this then this would happen I

also feel like if I said you know when I

do this then this happens and it's like

as I'm saying that fice is like well

then what if you just said it like this

and then I'm like oh what if I said it

like this and then I rhyme it and then

he adds another word and then we find

another and then it's like slowly you're

being more honest than you were even

being in your yeah conversation

because you know you're being seen I

mean

I like I wrote a song recently alone or

wrote a verse

alone that I wrote so fast and felt so

proud of and it was a a a verse that I

wrote about my friend Pro from the

perspective of her friend okay that she

was having you know some sadness with

right and I sent it to her and I was

like hey this is I just wrote this verse

from the perspective of your friend that

you're really sad about to

you and she was like

what what the hell but that is where I I

think that's where I just Thrive is like

seeing people and seeing others and well

then sometimes you reveal parts of

yourself in doing that you totally re

literally when I wrote that verse yeah I

like two days later was like oh this is

exactly the situation that I'm in with

somebody that I know and I didn't even

really put that together I mean it's the

same with like what was I made for I

mean that song we wrote solely from the

perspective of a Barbie doll right and I

was like no no no no it's about Barbie

and Ken has nothing to do with my life

genuinely and then you know a couple

days went by and I was like oh this is

exactly my life cool literally every

word so I don't know I think the honesty

is subon ious yeah I don't think I'm

meaning to do it and I think that if I

mean to do it it's too vulnerable and I

will also say

yeah my kind of fears about

vulnerability

and weakness it's really weakness it's

less vulnerability it's more weakness

yeah I I have found that that that

indulging in in being vulnerable and

being known

and you know being honest is actually

really rewarding and it's also

like can be really fulfilling and and

actually make you experience more love

than you even thought and like closing

yourself off to things you know we close

oursel off to things because we're

scared of like getting hurt or hurting

someone or something involving pain you

know and and the truth

is yeah that's always a risk but you

have no idea how much love you can

experience if you allow it and I've

always been

really had a really weird relationship

to weakness and like being seen as

weak

female um and I think that in just just

submitting to that and and just being

like you know what maybe I'll be seen as

weak and I won't win this but I don't

need to win anything I just I am a

person that is capable of loving and

being loved and that is all I can do

well and it's all how you define winning

isn't

it yeah isn't

it what do you define winning it depends

on the

day

right I would think you would have to

accept V ability to do what you do

because otherwise how could you walk on

the stage

yeah well it's kind of complicated for

me because I'm I'm actually a very not

closed off person I'm a very open honest

person and I I I honestly wish I wasn't

as much like I I it it bites me in the

ass like it comes back to haunt me yeah

but oversharing yeah oh

I'm

I quean of the oversharing but well

that's a it's an interesting conflict

with you because on the one hand a

conflict it is right yeah because on the

other hand you give up a lot in just in

any conversation but on the other hand

you don't like to be perceived as weak I

know but

vulnerability I think vulnerability is

like scary because you're worried it's

going to make you appear weak but

vulnerability act actually is proves

that you're really strong like being

vulnerable is actually a very powerful

thing to be yes

and it's just complicated to be a

person isn't it it's a mess it's a mess

girl but you feels like you you're

learning that lesson kind of over and

over again yeah aren't we all yes

forever yeah

[Music]