From Robinhood to Aetherflux: Baiju Bhatt’s Billion Dollar Journey

It was a lot of false starts before Robin Hood like we started a company didn't go so well started another company didn't go so well.

What do you think your superpower was in the early days?

We were extraordinarily driven and I remember very much having the feeling especially as we got to working on Robin Hood seeing people that had figured out how to build consumer products that had figured out that product market fit and

being like I want to do that. I want to figure out what the human condition or how these sort of technology things fit into people's lives. Where did the idea for Robin Hood come from?

Coming to America, especially as a poor immigrant kid, this was the land of opportunity. The system was all rigged

opportunity. The system was all rigged against the ordinary person. The thing

that sort of clicked for us at some point, if we can make it easier for people to get access to the stock market, isn't that kind of a microcosm of this whole Occupy thing that's happening? If you give people the tools

happening? If you give people the tools to pursue their own self- betterment, the rate of change of things is going to surprise you. All the while at building

surprise you. All the while at building Robin Hood, I was quite interested in space. Watching the reusable rockets

space. Watching the reusable rockets land, I kind of had this idea in my head. I'm like, man, I think if

head. I'm like, man, I think if commercial space is ever going to be a thing, this is something that I want and if it's happening in my lifetime, this is something I want to be a part of. Hi

everyone and welcome to the Miners One podcast where we where we interview the world's most interesting people about the times in their life when they had to

figure out what to do next. I'm your

host Aditya Agarwal, a partner at South Park Commons and I'm joined today by a dear friend and incredible human being Baiju who I think you know had had an amazing track record that we will get

into. Bou welcome welcome to the

into. Bou welcome welcome to the podcast.

Thanks man thanks for having me.

Amazing. Well you know Baiu you know I I still remember meeting you I want to say circa 2011 or 12 maybe 13. Was it that

early?

I think, you know, I think I remember that, you know, we used to have the u the infamous happy hours at Dropbox on Friday evenings and I think you had a bunch of folks that you knew in common

and I still remember today that kind of being struck by your charisma like you definitely had a magnetism to you, you know, kind of in the sea of I think people that often got invited to those

and it was kind of, you know, used to be a rollicking good time. And I still remember that you had a magnetism to you.

It was a roller like a good time.

It it's maybe too too much fun, you know, too much fun kind of the glory years of Silicon Valley circa 2013 and 14. Um, but by you tell us about some of

14. Um, but by you tell us about some of your early history kind of like in your life because I think your provenence story is somewhat remarkable and somewhat rare even for kind of I would

say Silicon Valley. So tell us a little bit more about your early days. What

roads did you follow that led you to San Francisco?

It's kind of it's kind of interesting that the story is actually quite relevant for the companies that I've started and the path that I've taken. It actually starts with

my dad. Um so our family moved to the US

my dad. Um so our family moved to the US from India. Um and my dad at the time

from India. Um and my dad at the time had this dream of pursuing a degree in physics in America. So he was like the one like the one kid in his uh in his in his town that like applied to PhD

programs every year year in year out. Um

and after like many many years of applying he finally gets in. He had kind of decided that he wanted to really devote his life to science. He was like I'm not sure I want to have kids. I'm

not sure I want to get married. I want

to spend my life studying physics. And I

think all these things kind of happen in rapid succession. He gets into

rapid succession. He gets into University of Huntsville, Alabama. He

marries my mom and my mom is pregnant with me. And so that's kind of where my

with me. And so that's kind of where my journey in life and you know being born in America started.

But your your dad was born in India.

Dad was born in India. Um and when my mom got on the plane, she was pregnant with me. We learned English together

with me. We learned English together which is Gujarati was my first language actually. Um yeah, grew up at the

actually. Um yeah, grew up at the University of Huntsville, Alabama. And

afterwards, my dad um actually had some health problems along the way and had to stop out of his PhD program, gets a job at NASA. And so I grew up with him

at NASA. And so I grew up with him studying physics before that and then being a research scientist at NASA. And

you you been to Langley Air Force Base?

I have not had the I have not had the pleasure and privilege.

Yeah, it's like in southern Virginia. I

remember we lived I remember every um it's like Friday or Saturday night there was a NASCAR ring there and you would hear the NASCAR engines going around. Um

but I grew up with my these like giant wind tunnels and my dad being a I think it was an atmospheric scientist at the time at NASA and with physics as this

backdrop. Um, as the years go by, um,

backdrop. Um, as the years go by, um, when I was a little bit older, I decided that I really wanted to study physics and math. And my dad was sort of like,

and math. And my dad was sort of like, you know, it's like when I was growing up, you know, my dad was my grandfather wanted to be, you know, wanted me to be a doctor, but I always wanted to study

physics. So, I'm not going to not going

physics. So, I'm not going to not going to tell you what you should pursue in life. And I think it just it really like

life. And I think it just it really like if somebody tells you that you you shouldn't think about doing something, it's gonna like you're obviously going to do that.

And he was a great physics teacher and a great math teacher to me. So I learned a lot of like I remember I took a class on pre-alggebra with him and really fell in love with the subject matter material.

One thing have you ever seen the show for all mankind?

I have not. No.

It's on Apple TV. It's kind of about it's an alternative retelling of the space race. Like what if the space race

space race. Like what if the space race never ended and like the USA and Soviet Union was still going at it and you know we kind of then ended up having human colonies on the moon and Mars and it's

really well done. Um but the reason I bring this up is because now that you say this, the lead c one of the lead characters, her name is Margot. She's

from Huntsville, Alabama, and she ends up leading NASA in this new universe that they have created. And I've always like why would she be from Huntsville, Alabama, but now it makes sense. I

didn't realize that they had a huge presence of like scientists there. Okay.

All right.

Yeah, I'm actually very curious to go back. I haven't been back since I was a

back. I haven't been back since I was a kid. Um, but there's actually a big

kid. Um, but there's actually a big aerospace community there today. Um, at

least that's that's what my understanding is. So, it'd be cool to

understanding is. So, it'd be cool to it'd be cool to do that. It would also be cool to do some stuff in Virginia again at some point, too, because as you know, we're we're both Californians. Um,

Virginia has always really felt like home to me, too.

That's amazing. Okay.

Yeah. So, um, went on to study physics and math at Stanford and kind of to this point, right, I I remember growing up and seeing the aerospace industry kind of up close and personal.

And when I got to study physics and math at Stanford and like much more on the theoretical side, you know, I I kind of looking back on it there there wasn't really an option to work on space stuff

then, right? I think if there was it it

then, right? I think if there was it it probably would have captured my interest.

So you grew up but kind of if I may pause for a second it is rare for people from Alabama to go to Stanford like that is not a common thing.

Virginia for for a large Yeah.

How did you like were you just really good at school? Like were you very good gifted academically? Like I'm curious

gifted academically? Like I'm curious like that that's again something you know you look back on you're like wow that you don't see that every day.

Yeah. You know, it's actually kind of an interesting journey. When I got to high

interesting journey. When I got to high school, I really turned it on. When I

was when I was before that, I remember I was not a particularly good student. Um,

and I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that English was my second language. Like I I learned English like

language. Like I I learned English like when I was I want to say like four or five years old, like preschool time is when I was learning English. And the

other catalyst, and this is actually something that um I don't think I've talked too much about this publicly, but my dad, like I said, had had a lot of health problems when I was a kid. So,

his his kidneys failed when I was when I was pretty young. Um, and just a little bit of personal backdrop, right? I was

an only child. Like, we had we had one one income. My dad was a scientist. My

one income. My dad was a scientist. My

mom never really worked. Um, she never had a job. she we we you know we we would do some little sort of business things on the side but we were not very

well off as a kid and when I was in 8th grade it was a little personal um my dad his kidney disease kind of took a turn for the worse and he was hospitalized

for kind of a while and that was like looking back on the person that I've become like that was the point at which I I went from I I became like a full-on

man at a pretty young age. Um, oh wait, my dad's my dad's healthy. He's fine.

Um, I actually saw him a couple weeks ago. Um, but I think it was it was that

ago. Um, but I think it was it was that that like, you know, there's there's nothing like having feeling like your back is against the wall to bring out

that sort of like, you know, focus, intensity, kind of just like that that gumption, that courage, you know. I thank you for sharing that. And I think I don't think

sharing that. And I think I don't think we have talked about this before, but um my mom got on a plane with me cuz my dad

had was kind of working in Cameroon in central Africa. Um when and he had left

central Africa. Um when and he had left when my mom was pregnant cuz he got a job there. So my mom, this is like in

job there. So my mom, this is like in 1982. I am literally like 8 weeks old,

1982. I am literally like 8 weeks old, right? She gets on a plane, first time

right? She gets on a plane, first time getting on a plane, right? to go travel from India to Cameroon in Africa by herself. Um, and she takes me there to

herself. Um, and she takes me there to go visit like to basically be like, "Yeah, I want to live with, you know, my husband and like, you know, he should

see his son." And I think that sometimes I think to the situations that I'm in and, you know, where courage is required of me and I'm just like, "Wow, think

about the crazy things that our parents had to do to get us to this point." And

in some ways what what the world asks of us is actually much much smaller like I think than what it asked of them. And it

took me a long time I think to understand it to have a deep appreciation for it but then also just kind of be like my god they're rock stars like I don't know if like I don't

know if I would take my 8-week old on a trip for the first time on a plane to central Africa even today. I'm like

that's insane to me right. So I'm yeah I I'm very proud of my parents. it took

me, you know, for doing the stuff that they did in in my early days, man. I I couldn't have said it better

man. I I couldn't have said it better myself, honestly. Like, I actually

myself, honestly. Like, I actually didn't know that about you. Um, but

yeah, our parents had huge courage. I

mean, it's it's actually such a similar story, right? My dad got into to study

story, right? My dad got into to study physics. He was going to go by himself.

physics. He was going to go by himself.

My mom was, I think, going to try to stay back in India. She was very close to her family there. And the story she says is that she went to the embassy and they're like, "Oh, you know, you're pregnant. Like, let's stamp your card.

pregnant. Like, let's stamp your card.

you're going to go to America. You think

about that, right? Is like there was no internet there. Like I remember my

internet there. Like I remember my parents could barely afford to make phone calls back home to India. Um and

you imagine the sort of understanding of the world that people had then like a foreign country felt like a different planet I'm sure right and to just say you know what I'm going

to leave this whole life behind and go somewhere where it's a totally different culture where like you just don't you know it's kind of like going to space today I think that when the first people will go

to Mars or you know maybe onto human colonies or kind of like essentially like floating um near earth kind of orbit kind of like essentially habitats.

It will feel like that that that's what it must have been like for them.

The culture shock I think of coming to America must have been pretty intense for my parents too reflecting back on it. Um anyway, so that's that's kind of

it. Um anyway, so that's that's kind of the backdrop of what I where I grew up, right? And so story after that goes to I

right? And so story after that goes to I met my co-founder of Robin Hood in college. We were roommates for a year.

college. We were roommates for a year.

Uh and we were we took we took a lot of the same classes together. We were like best of homies. Um,

and I was a little bit older. I had the hairbrain idea of starting a company after having a job for a little while.

And I I convinced him to want to deal with me. Um,

with me. Um, and it was a lot of false starts before Robin Hood. Like we started a company,

Robin Hood. Like we started a company, didn't go so well, start another company, didn't go so well. And at the time we were, I think this was probably

around the time that I met you. And um

it's like you know 2011 12 13 14 we had the idea for Robin Hood in in the in 2012 if I remember correctly.

A bit of an aside I remember the first time I met you I was like I was like quite I was quite taken. I was like man this is an extremely charismatic leader.

And I think I appreciate you saying that. you you

very much left that impression on me too because because I I'd heard about you before, right? And I think I had kind of

before, right? And I think I had kind of uh I'd asked for a couple of invites to Dropbox because I was like I want to meet some of these people that are doing this stuff and Yeah. Yeah. It just it it

like the seeing you running Dropbox and a lot of the engineering functions and it was like man this is like this is what this is what the sort of like persona it takes to get a huge group of

people coralled uh to to doing yeah time cloud storage but first of all thank you for saying that you know I I'm not a person who takes compliments I think easily so I will bask in the adulation for like you

know 3 seconds and thank you um I remember also the first time we had dinner together. I want to say that was

dinner together. I want to say that was in like that was a little bit later.

That was like 2017 or maybe 2018. I

remember a super dimly lit place that we went to dinner.

Well, now my visual memory is playing tricks on me because I I remember the dinner. I don't remember where we went.

dinner. I don't remember where we went.

Um, good times. Um, but here's a question. I

good times. Um, but here's a question. I

mean, listen, every Stanford kid wants to start a company. That's kind of, you know, a thing. But it takes so much persistence in the early days. So how

like did you guys were yesterday young and impression not impressionable like young and driven did not know what you don't know. So you keep on running

don't know. So you keep on running against walls cuz you and Vlad are both remarkable. Um what would you say was

remarkable. Um what would you say was your in retrospect what do you think your superpower was in the early days?

Was it in some ways that naivity naive optimism that like hey what else are we going to do? we just got like this is it, right? But I'm curious now that you

it, right? But I'm curious now that you look back on like what would you say your superpower was in those early days?

Well, I think a couple of things. Um,

one, we were extraordinarily driven.

Like we were extraordinarily driven. Um,

and I think that's a combination of kind of you don't know what you don't know.

And I remember very much having the feeling, especially as we got to the working on Robin Hood, seeing people that had figured out how to build consumer products, right? like seeing

people that had figured out that product market fit and being like I want to do that like I want to figure out what those insights are about like

the human condition or how these sort of technology things fit into people's lives because if you kind of get it then you end up building something that's

like ubiquitous immediately right so very driven I would say um another thing that I would attribute a decent bit of it too was that there was a really

powerful dynamic duo, right? Like there

was uh one of the things that I remember about that is like when one of us would be kind of you've seen this before, right? Like if you're if you're going at

right? Like if you're if you're going at it year in year out, you have periods where you're kind of burned out, right?

Where the creativity is not really there, the energy level is not there, the optimism is kind of fading because of whatever thing happened. And I kind of always found that when one of us was

a little bit on the downswing, the other one sort of was like roaring to go. Um,

and yeah, I think that especially at that at that early age having that that um that sort of like, you know, we were

co-creators, co-CEOs, like we were, you know, we were like in it together. Um

I and and the reason I say that is I think the the sort of idea of having a co-founder as a company especially if you're doing it the first time around is pretty yeah it's pretty important I think.

Yeah. I I look back and I'm just like I've seen that dynamic play out especially if you're doing the company the first time where you kind of in some ways are learning about your own

emotional state. I think at the second

emotional state. I think at the second time founder it's a bunch easier because you're hopefully not walking into it with like you know like h like you know and you're kind of actually able to able

to understand that emotional stability while riding the highs is kind of like what being a founder is about. But if

you're doing it for the first time my god the roller coaster is intense right and having somebody to even you out I think is is critical and you know Ruchi and I play that role for each other. I

am naturally kind of like often, you know, I would say prone to higher highs and lower lows because that's my personality. And Ruchi is just a lot

personality. And Ruchi is just a lot more even, you know, and I think she helps to even out both the highs and the lows and that plays a huge part, I think, in our working relationship.

Yeah. I I I would say that there's a lot of parallels between that and and and our relationship when we were starting it.

If you can if you remember like what was like what where did the idea for Robin Hood come from? I'm sure you've had to answer this question a bunch, right? I

don't think that I'm the first person asking this question, but maybe tell us like, you know, what was the initial like the spark that kind of gave you guys that?

Yeah, it happened over a phone conversation. I was in

conversation. I was in I think I was in New York, Vlad was in San Francisco. Um, we had been working

San Francisco. Um, we had been working on a previous company before this and at the time the backdrop was this Occupy Wall Street stuff. Um, and I remember we we kind of were on the periphery of it.

we'd kind of see it and people would ask us about it, but we weren't like, you know, we weren't like camping out in it or anything like I remember the backdrop

of it though was something that left like quite an impression on me. And

what what am I talking about here? This

kind of comes back to like my my background. I think you'll probably be

background. I think you'll probably be able to see a lot of this in yourself too, right? But coming to America,

too, right? But coming to America, especially as a poor immigrant kid, right? This was the land of

right? This was the land of opportunities. like this was the place

opportunities. like this was the place where people all around the world wanted to come because this was the place where you could you could create your own sort of outcomes, right?

And I remember this in school too, right? Is like man I was like education

right? Is like man I was like education is super important because and this is like one of the lessons in life where I was like education is your way out at the same time the backdrop and I felt this was especially true for people

whose families had been in America for a long time, right? like there was this like you know this sense that like the system was [ __ ] up like it was all you know it was all like rigged against the

ordinary person and that people kind there was like the sense of like wanting to tear the whole thing down right that's literally what people are protesting and I remember at the time being like

what is happening here like because because we're just like this is it just it like I couldn't rationalize that in my brain because I'm like yo this is the

land of opportunity right and Like I think that the thing that sort of clicked for us at some point in that that first conversation was like, "Hey, wait a second. If we can make it easier

for people to get access to the stock market, like isn't that isn't that kind of a microcosm of this whole Occupy thing that's happening?" And in particular, if

that's happening?" And in particular, if you look at like the two possibilities, right? you tear the thing down or you

right? you tear the thing down or you get a bunch more people to be a part of the financial system so that then they're like rooting for the positive outcomes for the whole society like

that's another answer right I mean I actually think that like in some ways um like the American at least America's foreign policy if you

will right for like you know post code uh post kind of world war ii was like hey if people believe in the global essentially like liberal democracy and capitalist system then everyone gets along right and I think that if you kind

of think about your core thesis there it's the same thing but applied domestically at least to start right which is that like it it the system is not perfect the system had a bunch of

like you know jagged edges that don't work and we try to smooth those out but it is still the best [ __ ] system we know right like all alternative systems whether of like organizing your economy

or of your you know your politics are worse you So until we can figure something else out, I think it's better to try to like make this system work.

I would say um the experience of building Robin Hood has made um has has made me really appreciate the power of capitalism. And I think this is actually

capitalism. And I think this is actually connecting the dots to what I'm doing right now um was like one of the core thesis, right? Because this was the

thesis, right? Because this was the thing about Robin Hood that we we basically built a product that gave access to the capital markets and we put it in everybody's pocket. And the thing

that was like there's a lot of really interesting [ __ ] about it, but like one of the things that really stood out was if you give people the tools to pursue their own self- betterment, the rate of

change of things is going to it's going to it's going to surprise you. You know,

like things change is going to happen so much faster. Um, and you think about the

much faster. Um, and you think about the world when we were starting Robin Hood versus today, right?

One of the this is like my personal benchmark for this, right? Is

being on top of your money or like being like, I'm not going to waste my money, but I'm going to think about like I'm going to think about how I can like

save or create for myself, right? That

was not cool like 10, 15 years ago, right?

like being kind of being kind of clueless about your money was like I don't know like oftentimes in in society especially amongst young people is kind of like a badge of honor and I was like

doesn't make any damn sense to me right it's so dumb but now you're right actually if you think about it it's kind of it's it's cooler to actually know to

be smart about those things right and that is so much better than kind of like it's not a flex to be like you know essentially like you a dumb investor.

No, it's like it's no flex, you know.

I believe this is what the uh the younger folks would call vibe shift.

It's like you got the risk, bro.

Oh man.

All right. So, I'm going to tie this to space. Okay.

space. Okay.

Actually, sorry. Before you go into that, I do want to put I don't you I don't think I've told you this, but one of my heroes is Milton Friedman, right?

and he's obviously like, you know, a hardcore libertarian capitalist, but the book that has probably affected me most um is capitalism is freedom. I do not think that those two things can be

separated because ultimately like by being able to control what you do with your money and your time is your is the is the best expression of your ability

to kind of shape your life in the way you want to, right? And I think that by having a political system that allows you to express that is the biggest form of freedom that we can have. And I

fundamentally believe that all human beings are very smart. They actually

make amazing self-interested decisions that leads to both better for them and for the global system. Right? And I

think anybody who has a alternative view of the world is actually being highly paternalistic, right? About people who

paternalistic, right? About people who might frankly have, you know, lower capital than them. I'm like, "No, I actually think everybody's super smart about this, right?" And it's the greatest form of respect that you can

give to everyone that you you can make the best decisions about your own life.

Um, anyways, bring us to space.

Yeah. I mean, I I I think you said it well. Um, so let's connect the dots to

well. Um, so let's connect the dots to space here. So, all the while of

space here. So, all the while of building Robin Hood, I was quite interested in in space. Like, I grew up around it. I was really enamored by the

around it. I was really enamored by the idea of like what was going to happen if the space race actually happened, right?

This was kind of the thing that growing up around all these like artifacts of NASA and stuff, going to Stanford to study physics and then just kind of like the most interesting thing was getting a

job at like some aerospace company. It

it it felt like the space race had been won and like everybody lost, right?

That's well put. That's really well put.

Yeah exactly.

Like it happened and it just kind of, you know, it it felt like society just got distracted by the internet.

Yeah. It's like it's like who's going to space today? No one. Who has benefited

space today? No one. Who has benefited from like anything related to space in the last 10 years? No one except for now I guess Starlink. Like you know that's kind of a very direct consumer benefit.

But you're totally right. This Yeah.

So watching the reusable rockets land I kind of had this idea in my head. And

I'm like, man, I think if commercial space is ever going to be a thing, this is something that I want and if it's happening in my lifetime, this is something I want to be a part of, right?

And the thought there was actually not altogether unrelated from Robin Hood.

Um, and I I'll explain what I mean by that is like when you look at the when I look at the space industry, the thing that stands out to me the most and this is outside like this is, you

know, pre pre-Spaceex is it's for the government by the government at government prices, right? And every

mission like if you if you kind of peel the onion layer back a little bit, it's it's nation states that are doing this, right?

And that I think is a huge problem because what that what that basically means is it's not an industry that's spinning with the with the flywheel of

capitalism, right? And I just think that

capitalism, right? And I just think that the flywheel of capitalism is the point I was making a few moments ago, right?

It accelerates progress. And so the thought process was if you look at and this is kind of like my uh sort of rude approximation of like what the space industry is, right? If you think of low

Earth orbit as a platform, right, a platform for global distribution is kind of how I think about it. I will make the argument not altogether different from

sitting like an app store, which is a platform for distribution, right?

Because when you're in lower Earth orbit, think about Starlink, right?

You're not over one place. you're kind

of if you want to be useful in one place, you kind of by default are going to be useful in most places because and that's because satellites

move around really quickly. Um

if you look at if you think space then is a lower earth orbit is a platform, right? You ask the question, what

right? You ask the question, what verticals of the economy exist on this platform? And I make the argument that

platform? And I make the argument that there's less than there should be, right?

The broad buckets as I see it are like earth imaging academia, defense and telecommunications.

So if you want to work in space and you want to do it commercially, like these are some of the broad buckets of commercial activity that are happening there.

There's there's no way that that's the full spectrum of what's going to happen in space. And

in space. And the the thought process was if you could stand up a new vertical of the economy in space, that's going to be one of these things that's like this massive

accelerate for everything as small as when people graduate from school being like, you know what, I want to go get an aerospace degree because there's good jobs that are going to create a lot of

value that are space related. All the

way to the point of like I think space becomes a more intrinsic part of the human experience which I think you fast forward the clock

500 years like it's humans are going to be a species that occupies our solar system I believe um means space has got to be real for people it's got to be real for people it's also

interesting right like there are these um you can call it like civilization level beliefs or almost like technologies like capitalism is one of them right like you know

representational democracy is one of them right which is that we have these technologies that apply at the civilization level that allow all of us to uh do something collectively but then also to believe together collectively

right and I think that if you're able to essentially do the same for space you are a like if you're able to for instance provide this platform I think it's kind of amazing to allow civilization as a whole to dream

together collectively and if you tie it back to capitalism and kind of to the individual I have a lot of faith in humans to actually build incredible things if they're given these platforms,

right? And I think we're vastly more in

right? And I think we're vastly more in some ways creative and driven than the manifestation today in like the companies and startups. Like I think there's a tremendous amount of upside as

long as you kind of give people some of these core capabilities. So I think if we're able to do that for space, I think how how wild would that be if it happens in our lifetime?

Yeah, I'm I'm working my butt off to make that happen. um and my part of it.

Tell us a little bit more about Aether Flux.

Aetherflux start out with the mission of the company which is to deliver energy to planet Earth. So we're building an energy company in space. So what does this mean? Right? Kind of coming back to

this mean? Right? Kind of coming back to the low Earth orbit as a platform. Um I

believe that one of the verticals that that is going to exist um that we're working to make happen is energy in space. And I think that there's there's

space. And I think that there's there's a couple of reasons I that that's pretty interesting. But I'll I'll get into kind

interesting. But I'll I'll get into kind of what actually let's start out with the simplest explanation of what we're doing. We're building a constellation of

doing. We're building a constellation of satellites. Each one that collects power

satellites. Each one that collects power and transmits it down to the ground. And

on the ground there's receiver stations that collect the power. And the concept is um in the same way that there's a lot of satellites that you need to service a

single point on the ground for Starlink right there will be a large proliferated constellation of these satellites each one that performs this function. The

reason I say that constellation and kind of making a point on this is and I won't get into too much of this but the historical idea behind space solar power because this is not a new

idea. actually an idea from the 70s um

idea. actually an idea from the 70s um was to have you know one monolithic object that collects power and beams it down to a point. I think that's one of the things where we're we're exploring

like can we can we make the Starlink model work for this because for a bunch of different reasons but so let's ask the question like what what what's happening here right it's actually

pretty straightforward there's three three broad buckets first one it's power generation so you have solar panels photovoltaics and there's everything

from Home Depot solar panels all the way you know which are kind of like the the the cheapo solar solar panels all the way to 35 solar panels that have higher efficiency. They're way more expensive.

efficiency. They're way more expensive.

You have those as big deployable solar arrays on your satellite on each one.

They're they're gimbling, so they're facing the sun. They're collecting power and they take the incident sunlight and they turn it into an electrical current.

All right? So, you go from photons to electrons. Now you either have a battery

electrons. Now you either have a battery in there or sometimes you'll directly direct the power to the power transmission system. But for this

transmission system. But for this argument, let's say you're basically charging up a battery on the satellite.

So that's the power generation side. The

second part is the power transmission.

So the way that we transmit power is actually using light. Um and it's using uh infrared lasers to actually project

the light down to the ground. And the

idea is is you use infrared lasers because they allow for a small tight spot size. Um and on the ground it in

spot size. Um and on the ground it in turn allows for compact receivers for power. So the way it works is on the

power. So the way it works is on the satellite there is a pointing mechanism that starts out by looking for where it thinks the ground station is. So it

sends out a it's in searching mode. Once

it finds the ground station and it forms a link with the ground station, it switches to power transmission mode and in low Earth orbit as it's passing overhead, it'll basically transmit power

as it's passing overhead. And once it starts moving out of the field of view of the ground station, starts over, starts looking for a new ground station.

What what's happening here, right, is you have um you have fiber lasers that are actually converting the electrical current that's stored in the battery and

turning it into photons again. So, we've

gone from photons to electrons back to photons. So, on the ground, you have a

photons. So, on the ground, you have a receiver, which you know, we contemplate is going to be in the 5 to 10 m um diameter spot size. maybe a little bigger at first, but as we get to bigger

satellites, we think we can make it tighter. Um, that then takes that beam

tighter. Um, that then takes that beam of power and it has photovoltaics on it that are actually tuned for the frequency of light that you're transmitting. The reason that's

transmitting. The reason that's important is you can get much higher efficiencies if you're tuned for one frequency of light as opposed to full spectrum.

And so you have the the solar array that's collecting power and it's potentially charging a battery on the ground which you can then use for current. Um

current. Um and the whole idea here is is that you have these small relatively small ideally portable receivers that you can

use to generate power places where there's no infrastructure.

You can go off the grid basically because you have the constellation of satellite. It's kind of like Starling at

satellite. It's kind of like Starling at any given point in time. Yeah. I mean,

that's a great analogy.

That's kind of the the low Earth orbit, you know, persistent overhead everywhere in the world concept that we're that we're trying to make happen. And so,

what are we going to use this for?

Right? The idea is is that first there's places that it's really difficult to get power. Um, so there's commercial

power. Um, so there's commercial versions of it. There's also DoD versions of it. I'll talk about the do you know defense related applications which one really good example is like

power into the battlefield right for deployed bases small groups of troops that are you know in the battlefield doing stuff

this is a way of getting power that doesn't require transporting diesel fuel right because that's kind of the lifeline of generating power for the

department of defense and it's expensive it's dangerous um you know those those supply chain routes of getting power into contested regions those are primary

targets for for adversaries right it kind of a traditional kind of has been for a long time where our approach basically says the power generation is

like a decentralized constellation in low earth orbit you know there's you think about like disabling one of the satellites there's like one right behind it you know

what is the overall like capacity like this kind of I don't I'm not good with this particular uh spectrum of math if you will but like can you know if you had 20,000

satellites in orbit you know like whatever the spa uh Starlink number is like how much power could you um could you transmit I guess like what's a good way to think about

yeah I think the power scaling is actually one of the central things that we're working on right so first mission And and basically the the basic math of

it is is you get more power in space as you're able to transmit transport more mass to orbit. Right? So the ability to get to like we're going to start out with our first mission. We have two

missions that we're planning for next year. Those are going to be at the

year. Those are going to be at the kilowatt power level output of the satellite. So, you know, we kind of set

satellite. So, you know, we kind of set that as a benchmark of we're like, you know, that's kind of where we we call this, you know, power transmission. Um,

and you know, this kind of our internal sort of line in the sand. Um, and the idea is there's a bunch of technology that goes into scaling lasers.

You know, they exist at that power level on the ground today. Like making those work in space is kind of the challenge we're biting off first. Then as you want to get to more power, you get to it by

having higher power lasers and having bigger deployable solar arrays that generate more power. So it's sort of like, you know, as we get closer to that point, you're going to be able to ask

the question like, how much power can you increment in orbit with each Starship launch, for example, right?

And it's actually nonlinear. I mean,

like I I guess that the whole point is that it scales. I could imagine coverage and raw power I guess scales nonlinearly uh but super linearly with the amount of

like stuff you have up there which is nice.

The thing that really bends the curve I think is Starship right because then you can start talking about getting what I think the number is like a 100 metric tons if I'm not mistaken into orbit per

launch. That's a huge amount, right?

launch. That's a huge amount, right?

Like this is like one of the um and and you know they're whatever the number is today, they're already talking about future starships, right? That

potentially could be even bigger. Um but

like kind of the unlock here, right, is like if you think about getting to low Earth orbit as like a mode of transportation, right?

We don't think about it like that right now, right? Nobody asked the question

now, right? Nobody asked the question like how much mass can you, you know, move from Asia to North America. It's

like, well, you just have more boats and more planes and you like do more trips, right? When Starship becomes fully

right? When Starship becomes fully reusable in that way, I think you start thinking about, well, it's like, well, we're going to, you know, ship these

solar panels from China to the United States on a boat. like we could as well ship them to low Earth orbit right on a

rocket. Um, and I think the the timing

rocket. Um, and I think the the timing of what we're trying to do here is as that capability comes online, which you

know, two years, 5 years remains to be seen.

Maybe sooner, maybe a little bit longer.

We want to be ready to actually scale manufacturing to be able to say, "Hey, we're ready to go in the early days of it and have the manufacturing capacity

to build enough satellites to fill a whole Starship, right?" Cuz I do think that the amount of launch that they're going to be developing

for the Mars mission, it's going to be tremendous, right? I think Elon said he

tremendous, right? I think Elon said he wants to do what, like two or three launches a day for two years straight or something like that. Yeah, I know. If

that works, I mean that it's it's just so crazy to kind of envision that kind of capacity. Um,

of capacity. Um, we have we have time for probably one more question. So maybe what I'd ask you

more question. So maybe what I'd ask you is you know it takes a tremendous amount both of like vision and foresight but I think also of patience to build in this

space that you are building. So, how do you kind of like keep in some ways the momentum and the energy up in like a longer in in what is absolutely a long

arc mission like you have at a flux and is that but or are you is that somewhat easy to do just because it's it's such a cool it's such a cool thing to work on.

Yeah, it's a it's a pretty interesting question. Um, a lot of it at this point

question. Um, a lot of it at this point is muscle memory, right? The actual

company building.

Um, and by that like I like I like building companies. Like I enjoy doing

building companies. Like I enjoy doing it, right? It's like it's fun to me like

it, right? It's like it's fun to me like working on working with like a small group of people on something where you don't know what the outcome is going to be, right? And like you got a lot of

be, right? And like you got a lot of problems to figure out, but like you haven't worked through all of them yet.

Like that's kind of what I want to be spending my waking hours as a human being doing, you know? And I I look at the stage of life that I'm at and

I hope I have the the same level of sort of fire and gumption to do this when I'm a decade older. But I I want to capture these good years while I while I still

have the energy in me to do it. Um

I think there's another part of this too, right? Is like doing this the first

too, right? Is like doing this the first time the outcome was a really big deal, right? It's like we want to build

right? It's like we want to build something that's successful.

This time around, I really want to enjoy the journey too, right? Cuz I look back at the journey of

right? Cuz I look back at the journey of Robin Hood and I'm like, yeah, the success was fun, but and I'm sure you feel this way too, right? Like the the memories that are really burned in your

mind are when you're like when you didn't know and you figured it out and you turned out that that was the right thing. And just the feeling that you get

thing. And just the feeling that you get when you're at the forefront of an industry, right? I mean I I really love

industry, right? I mean I I really love the way you put it which is that you know I've I've answered this question explicitly which is like what do I want to do with my life and you know in some

ways have the luxury of asking that question and a lot of it just comes down to I want to work with a I want to work on hard interesting problems with a very talented team in a no [ __ ]

environment where we are kind of limited by like our own desires and abilities as opposed to kind of bureaucracy and politics right and for me that's taken in the form of like you know working at

South Park Commons and growing kind of our mission there but if not it would and also I've started you know a couple of companies recently and it's all comes down to the same thing which is that I

love starting things I just love working on hard problems with like driven people with in kind of like ambiguous situations but in one there's like you know everyone's kind of rowing on the

same boat pretty hard so it's it's it's a I think that is that gives a ton of satisfaction to me so it sounds I think it's the same for you.

Yeah. The scale this the difficulty and the scale of the problem um early on that's that feels really daunting as you get further along I feel

like pays dividends in terms of satisfaction, right? Because you're like

satisfaction, right? Because you're like check out what we did.

Check out what we did. We figured it out. We we didn't get we didn't get

out. We we didn't get we didn't get psyched out, you know. Um

by thank you so much for for taking the time. Yeah, I think it's uh I think

time. Yeah, I think it's uh I think these these stories of you know like founders and kind of what they had to do in the early days when they kind of tackled these daunting problems is just

really inspiring for us at South Park Commons as we figure out like how do we how do we push founders to take like tackle the bigger kind of problems, right? Like let's not just go build like

right? Like let's not just go build like the fifth version of something that already exists. Let's go take tackle the

already exists. Let's go take tackle the big problems. And I think hearing from you is just kind of inspiring. Uh, so

thank you for taking the time.

Thanks, guys. I appreciate it.

That was another episode of Minus One from the team at South Park Commons.

Make sure to subscribe to our show wherever you listen to podcasts and find us on social at South Park Commons. And

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