Get Geographic Freedom With Bitcoin

I don't want to be the one telling you, hey, Portugal or Italy or another country, but I want to give you all the opportunities and then you choose. And

in theory, Anthony, the thing is, I don't want to go too theoretical, but it's a good idea in general to get exposure to more than one country. So,

if you can, you need to stack your passports. It's like with Bitcoin. Are

passports. It's like with Bitcoin. Are

you a Bitcoiner? And do you want a second citizenship? Well, oh boy, do I

second citizenship? Well, oh boy, do I have a special treat for you today. I'm

joined by Aleandro Palumbo. He's the

co-founder and CEO of Bitizenship. They

simply allow people from anywhere in the world to get a second citizenship in Europe and to get Bitcoin exposure while they're doing it. In this conversation, we talk about how it works, why people are doing it, who's doing it, what the

rules are, how can you actually make money with the Bitcoin exposure, and then we even talk about what are the countries where you can actually get the citizenship, what does it allow you to do all throughout Europe. This

conversation is fascinating, and it goes back and reinforces the theme that now people live in a global digital world.

They want to have options. They want to be able to move around the world with much, much more freedom and Bitcoin and a second citizenship getting put together. That's the type of stuff that

together. That's the type of stuff that people who watch this show, they like.

So this conversation is for you. Here's

my latest conversation with Aleandro Palumbo. All right, Aleandro. I thought

Palumbo. All right, Aleandro. I thought

a great place to start this conversation is you're telling me that I can buy Bitcoin and then another country will give me citizenship so I could have like dual citizenship or something. How the

heck does this work? Well, we created the Bitcoin ecosystem, Golden Visa Fund in Portugal. So this means that you can

in Portugal. So this means that you can invest in the fund. the fund invest in a bitcoin aligned company. So this company is a Portuguese company running in Portugal. We are based there and the

Portugal. We are based there and the company acquires exposure to Bitcoin. So

when we created this model one year ago, it was a complete innovation. We worked

successfully with dozens of investors so far and yeah so the that's the why the name of this company Bitcoin citizenship. So all right. So let me

citizenship. So all right. So let me make sure I get this right. So, if I'm an American or anywhere else in the world and I say, "Okay, I want Portuguese uh citizenship, uh, Portuguese has a program where if I invest how much money?"

>> Uh, 500,000 euro, half a million.

>> So, 500,000 euro. If I invest that in somewhere in Portugal, uh, there's certain rules, then I can get the citizenship. But if I'm a Bitcoiner, I

citizenship. But if I'm a Bitcoiner, I don't want to buy real estate or I don't want to buy something, I want to buy Bitcoin. You guys basically created a

Bitcoin. You guys basically created a fund that people could invest in. That

fund then invests in a company, that company buys the Bitcoin. So, it's a way to kind of, you know, make use the rules to your advantage to get the Bitcoin exposure and get a citizenship uh out of it as well.

>> Exactly. In substance, yes.

>> That's clever.

>> Thank you so much. It was a it was a it was we had prior experience with golden visa programs and in my in our view the problem is always that you know you can find investment opportunities but not

aligned for bitcoiners for people who you know adear to this movement and we created the solution for actually this was initially it was for our friends because we believe that um you know

Portugal is betting on innovation. We

wanted to also help the local Bitcoin ecosystem to grow and this solution worked very well and the unique thing is that if you want to get a European citizenship right now uh only Portugal

allows you to do it without having to move there. So you invest al anywhere

move there. So you invest al anywhere else in Europe you'd have to move to wherever it is. Okay. And if I get the Portuguese citizenship I can go anywhere in the European Union >> 100%. Yeah. That's the real power

>> 100%. Yeah. That's the real power because Europe in the end is 27 different countries but once you're citizen citizen in one of those you can settle you can get healthcare education

everywhere you and your kids >> okay so um how do I get my money back is there like how does that work so this specific fund the number one week credit is a closed ended fund so the remaining

duration is seven years so uh ideally you always need to maintain the investment for the five years of the for the golden visa purposes for maintaining you know for actually getting to the

right to citizenship and one year after.

So you will get back your capital and hopefully pro profits at the end of the fund. Right now it's 7 years. Got it.

fund. Right now it's 7 years. Got it.

And so the program itself requires that the money stays in the country for at least 5 years.

>> Correct. Yeah. So people can't just put it in and take it right back out. Makes

sense though, right?

>> And it's fair for the country because in the end there is an operating company in Portugal. It's active in Portugal. We

Portugal. It's active in Portugal. We

pay taxes in Portugal and that's the balance. And in my view the Portuguese

balance. And in my view the Portuguese program along all the European programs in the end has been the probably the most thoughtful in terms of how they created it. So it's in that view is the

created it. So it's in that view is the most compelling. Okay. Now who are the

most compelling. Okay. Now who are the types of people who are doing this? Are

these people who you know they want to move to Portugal and get citizenship for some sketchy reason? Are these like business people? Are they families? They

business people? Are they families? They

are all business people with families and most of them we are quite proud to have on boarded quite successful entrepreneurs. Most of them very well

entrepreneurs. Most of them very well known also. We of course for privacy

known also. We of course for privacy reasons we can't disclose the name but very an interesting set of individuals they want a plan B so the primary objective is I want to get a plan B for my family because in the end you know

you don't know how the world will be in 20 years right so or even in 10 or sometimes even in five so getting a plan B with Europe means to get an exposure to 27 different countries and it makes

sense and we have investors from literally all around the world a lot of Americans of course British Indians Brazilians Mexicans Chinese everywhere everyone Man, that's crazy. Uh, all right. Now,

you did it in Portugal. It's working.

Uh, you guys are, you know, rocking and rolling, helping people get the citizenship. But now, you know, you're

citizenship. But now, you know, you're Italian. I'm Italian. You're going to

Italian. I'm Italian. You're going to Italy. Like a little homecoming, a

Italy. Like a little homecoming, a little homecoming for you, right? Uh,

what what is the Italy program? What are

the differences or similarities to the Portugal program? So, Italy is going to

Portugal program? So, Italy is going to uh we are launching Italy is €250,000 euro. So, it's the half. You need to

euro. So, it's the half. You need to invest in a Bitcoin startup that we are creating. Um the important difference is

creating. Um the important difference is that the Italian program is requires for citizenship you to live in the country for 10 years. So you need actually to

move there. So if you want a citizenship

move there. So if you want a citizenship the Portuguese program independently from future changes is and will remain the best. But if you instead want to get

the best. But if you instead want to get access to Italy and eventually to an education system for your for your kids or healthcare or and you want to get a a shenan essentially visa with which you

can travel across Europe, Italy of course it it cost a half and of course it carries and I mean I'm biased. I

think you're biased.

It's a great place where too.

>> Now uh if you move there what does constitute moving? Do you have to stay

constitute moving? Do you have to stay for one month, half a year, a full year?

let's say to play it on the safe side half a year plus one day.

>> Okay. So you got to be there for at least half the year in Italy and no complaints, right? A lot of people would

complaints, right? A lot of people would love to do that. Um but then you get to check the box, you do that for 10 years and you get the citizenship.

>> Correct.

>> Okay. Um what are the things that countries are doing to try to get you to come help them with this? Because I got to imagine that once they see people are doing it, the reason why these countries have these programs is because they want

people to use them, right? They don't

create it just to sit there. Um, and if you're bringing all of this money, investment, people, citizens, etc. to their country, I'm assuming that countries are saying, "Hey, hold on a second. Well, you went to Portugal and

second. Well, you went to Portugal and Italy. Why don't you come here next?"

Italy. Why don't you come here next?"

So, that's an interesting question. So,

we have some conversations going around, especially with a strategic place. uh I

hope they will they will unfold as fast as possible because our goal as a as a company essentially this is a kind kind of family business with high growth and we we we priorit record in this vertical and it sounds easy but to put this

together it's very complex and uh our goal is to essentially enable bitcoin citizenships that's why citizenship all around the world so we would love to give optionality because in the end I believe I don't want to be the one

telling you hey Portugal or Italy or another country but I want to give you all the opportunities and then you choose and In theory, Anthony, the thing is, I don't want to go too theoretical, but it's a good idea in general to get

exposure to more than one country. So,

if you can, you need to stack your passports. It's like with Bitcoin. And

passports. It's like with Bitcoin. And

then what about uh so Europe seems to be a focus. Now, you guys live there,

a focus. Now, you guys live there, right? You guys time, etc. Um could you

right? You guys time, etc. Um could you do this in Asia? Could you do it in South or Central America? Could you do it in an African country? Like what are the other options >> right now? Um not really. Not really

because every country has its own wants and we in order to have this model to work properly at least we need to have the right legislative framework and right now it's pretty tight. So we can do it confidently again in Italy with

his own answers because in this case it's not going to be a fund. It's going

to be a startup um a bit Bitcoin startup. We could do it in another

startup. We could do it in another European country but we believe it's it's not attractive and uh pretty much it. We we check it out of course US,

it. We we check it out of course US, USA, Canada um Asian countries, Middle Eastern countries but without eventually specific government approvals uh it's not really feasible. We can do certain

things but it will be ultimately in our view not the best for the investors and we want to ship only products that are critically you know built for success and hopefully to address at the best

they need. of right now. No, but let's

they need. of right now. No, but let's put in these terms. We are constantly every day, every week checking out and is the day that there is a program that allows it, we will be there.

>> Yeah. What about um the cost, right? So,

I'm assuming you guys got to make money somehow, right? It's business

somehow, right? It's business capitalism. Some people don't like

capitalism. Some people don't like capitalism. They're down to socialism,

capitalism. They're down to socialism, idiots, but capitalism. Uh in terms of uh people put the Bitcoin in, what is the cost that you guys, how do you guys make money? So on the Portuguese fund,

make money? So on the Portuguese fund, we run it with this logic of 1.5% annual management fee and 10% performance fee. So essentially whenever

performance fee. So essentially whenever the fund um makes profits, essentially you take 90% and we keep 10%.

>> Okay. And then um in that fund after the end of the seven years, can I get back bitcoin or can I get back dollars?

>> Dollars.

>> Dollars. It's it's a it's one of the effects of this legislation. But for the Italian product, this is a major actually news because again for the second time we are creating something that didn't exist worldwide. So the

Italian startup will be able to accept Bitcoin uh so which means investment in kind when you want to invest in the startup and we will be able to let you redeem in

kind in bitcoin. So for Portugal no it's feared unfortunately for Italy of course there are different models legally and blah blah blah but essentially you can put and get back bitcoin. That's

>> interesting. So Portugal no inkind but in Italy you can do inkind contributions and also inkind redemptions as well.

>> Correct. And we believe this is going to be fantastic because for a lot of Bitcoin friends you know in the end still now cashing out is is a pain in the neck right for various reasons. In

this case we will be able to accept Bitcoin and give back Bitcoin.

>> Yeah. Talk about like Bitcoin as a kind of a a peaceful asset. Like one of the things that like when I think of a Bitcoin citizenship, it makes me think

of a world that is uh less abrasive, less chaotic, less um zero sum. You

know, you win, I lose, I win, you lose.

Um it feels like that's kind of what you guys are doing here, right? Is you're

saying like, hey, we kind of drew like these lines on maps and some for, you know, in some lenses like for good reason, right? A country isn't a country

reason, right? A country isn't a country without a border. On the other hand, the ability for good actors to go and visit and do this stuff, right, um, should be easier. Today's episode is brought to

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other hand, the ability for good actors to go and visit and do this stuff, right? Um, should be easier

right? Um, should be easier 100%. So I I I am a big believer in the

100%. So I I I am a big believer in the concept of in the end even national borders in the next 20 30 years should should have less meaning and and these are of course a very complex and

politically of course very delicate and sensitive topic but ultimately I would like to put it in the in these terms so without going too much philosophical in the end the whole concept of national states etc was developed in a different

world where we didn't have technology we didn't have the internet and so forth and so on so right now to be very frank in a global and internetbased economy and when we have Bitcoin that is immediately accessible all around the

world without barriers. To be frank, the same concept of barriers it as I see it is more uh an obstacle to the human in general potentiality and freedom com

rather than being a means of safety because even right now you know compared to 300 years ago the the necessity of physical safety for societ societal members you know it has evolved. So yes

if you want to put in these terms it's correct. So we we are quite proud to

correct. So we we are quite proud to contribute to make borders for certain you know good actually actors less relevant and in the geopolitical

spectrum I think of the next 20 30 years with the AI you know an AI based economy in my view it's quite critical to get exposure to different jurisdictions >> what do you think is like the biggest

hurdles all regulation and like legislation stuff from these countries if they would just create these programs you guys could run wild across the world challenges regulatory and administrative actually

um planning from governments. Why?

Because ultimately, you know, all these legislations they even now they're not built for bitcoiners or for tech. So

when you actually go into the details and you need to build the actual structure operating companies and make them working, it's very complex. And I

always say this because sometimes you think of well there are the laws and then you can just interpret them and you can apply them for your product. That's

one layer of complexity. But then there in I have a PhD in administrative law.

So unfortunately I spent many years in this stuff doing this stuff. The real

layer of complexity in my view is the the one below the general law. So when

you go into the details of how the rules should be applied and which are the authorities to confer to. That's where

the the incredible complexity happens.

And to be frank, the whole game of second citizenships and eventually residencies uh is based often on countries that are not necessarily so so efficient.

Otherwise, they wouldn't have an incentive to offer the deal. I mean, the US is trying to offer actually is offering a 5 million golden, right?

Golden car >> gold card.

>> They said it the other day, you know, we already sold 25,000. If that's if this was be amazing, right? But it's 5 million. So imagine other countries are

million. So imagine other countries are selling residency by investment programs RBI for 500K. Why do they do that?

Eventually they need to attract capital.

They need to attract skills. Necessarily

they may be not the most efficient countries yet. So that's the real

countries yet. So that's the real complexity for us because when we need to deal with very convoluted systems and making it running and satisfying the expectation with the investors, that's our real job. So essentially we are an

intermediate layer between the huge complexities and sometimes the no sense.

uh generated by I would say legacy systems and the needs of modern investors.

>> Mhm.

>> Is it uh frustrating?

>> Ah that's a great question. It is but at the same time can I tell you more? It's

part of our mission. So we do it with pleasure you know because it's in someone has to do the hard work and in the end also you know given my background my my private track record and so far and so on. So in general this is the vertical we can express as a team

at best our skills and where we can be the most competitive. So to be frank uh we do it with pleasure but yes it's extremely frustrating because sometimes you know when you operate in tech and you have past you know work in startups

and so far and so on you want to immediately generate an exponential value and sometimes of course in this field it takes time but you know sometimes if you want to run a marathon you need to put the work right you can't

>> go and run a marathon the day after so we we see we like to see this in in these terms. >> Yeah. Um you mentioned your background

>> Yeah. Um you mentioned your background helping set you up to do this. Explain a

little bit more.

>> Yeah. So I started my career as a as a as a lawyer. Uh I got a PhD in public law. I did some some academic studies

law. I did some some academic studies and I spend then 10 years in running and founding actually startups in the sovereignty field. Um I I also advised

sovereignty field. Um I I also advised the governments institutions on matters eventually around specifically tech and specifically blockchain.

I did a few things but most importantly I mean recently I I developed farly my my my my my kind of expertise into global living and global citizenship in this case via online content creation.

We generated I generated 240 plus million impressions organically on X in less than 12 months. So um I I would say I I developed my own skill set in the

last 10 12 years precisely you know along these topics because when only when you effectively work with institutions even in order to enable them to adopt a new legislation on

blockchain or bitcoin you understand precisely how they they operate. So that

that's essentially the track record that I personally brought on the table. And

my wife actually she already had a golden visa fund in Portugal, a successful one in real estate before real estate became not anymore. Uh uh

before 2023, you could have invested in real estate and Oh, you can't do that anymore.

>> No.

>> Oh, so you used to be able to invest in real estate and then get the citizenship, but now you can't invest in real estate. Correct. So why did they

real estate. Correct. So why did they take that out? That's interesting. So as

you this is one of the examples of how fast sometimes the window of opportunity you know gets reduced because of political concerns. So the specific

political concerns. So the specific political concern in Portugal was based on an a skyrocketing real estate market and sometimes you think you think of Bitcoin but and you you haven't seen the

price of real estate in Portugal.

>> Yeah. That's the the price you don't want to go up >> unless Yeah. Unless you own it already from since 2008 because the the objectively that showed us how crazy can

a market be and the multiplier eventually is almost as high as Bitcoin because real estate properties sometimes did up to 8x in 9 years. Okay, so the

same apartment, same property. Um so the I would say the legitimate concern politically was okay but we are pricing out from real estate our own people especially because the purchasing power

of Portuguese you know is not among the highest.

>> That makes sense. So

>> that makes sense. The unfortunate thing is that they realized after this this legislative change that in the end it was not because of

165 300 annual investors per year coming you know via the golden visa program to impact on the overall market. So if you look at the statistics, Portugal specifically had different issues.

Essentially, the the the capacity of building new housing since 2008 uh hasn't grown at all. So it's it the the demand of real estate went a bit up and

the supply didn't catch up. So this was the real cause, but politically they think they thought, oh, these the foreigners are taking our housing, >> right? So this was the logic. I mean,

>> right? So this was the logic. I mean,

that's what's going on in America right now. There's a lot of people who think

now. There's a lot of people who think that that's a huge problem, right?

Whether it is or not, it's politically that's become a topic and I can understand them because you know sometimes it's not easy. So know I'm not trying to point finger and say hi you've been guilty. I I'm thankful for of the

been guilty. I I'm thankful for of the opportunity and I'm thankful to Portugal specifically besides because we had a with my wife a previous company real estate for many years we live there but also because objectively they created

the most thoughtful program because you literally can invest. You bring value in the country and you don't need to move.

So this is in my view the the best balance because you still need to learn Portuguese a bit. You still need to do some online classes. You still need to spend a few days every two years in the country. So there is a balance but at

country. So there is a balance but at the same time they let you be free. So

if you want to remain in New York you can do it.

>> So this has been how the the Portuguese story went. And if I can expand on this

story went. And if I can expand on this point, I don't know if you perhaps followed, but maybe it is a marginal topic for in the grand scheme of things, but for example, one of the best

programs was the Maltis program in Europe. So prior, you know, actually

Europe. So prior, you know, actually this April of 2025, u the European Court of Justice essentially the program. So what I'm trying to the point I'm trying to share

with you is this entire world of second citizenship is hyper volatile potentially more than Bitcoin which means >> today you may opt in in Portugal with these terms tomorrow maybe not >> but the people who bought the real

estate they were already citizens so they don't get the citizenship taken away it's just net new people couldn't get the the real estate right >> this is a general rule so once you invest you lock in your vested interest

and especially in Europe we have a very solid set of constitutional rights that the government can't remove you. So once

you invest, you're good. And then they make people learn a little bit of Portuguese a little bit. You need to either achieve a basic understanding and do an an exam an A2 level or you need

just to frequent um attend to uh online classes. Um I think around 120 hours.

classes. Um I think around 120 hours.

>> Yeah. So it's it's pretty interesting that like to become a citizen like you have to kind of like assimilate to Portugal.

>> I would say yes in the right with the right balance. So they don't

right balance. So they don't >> Well, I'm just saying from an American perspective, that's like a taboo. Like

nobody wants to talk about that.

Everyone's like, "Well, no, everyone should just come do whatever they want, whatever, right?" But it'd be like the

whatever, right?" But it'd be like the equivalent would be like in America, us telling people who want to immigrate to America, you have to learn English. You

have to go to online classes, you have to like that would be the news would be talking about that for months here in America. Like there's no way you can

America. Like there's no way you can make people do that. But other

countries, that's what they do, right?

>> Yeah. Absolutely. This is essentially a requirement in every country. also in

Italy, also in Greece and so far and so on. So the assimulation is one of the

on. So the assimulation is one of the kind of cornerstones. Of course there are different degrees and in the Portuguese case it's a it's a moderate slash

low moderate degree. Yeah. Got it. Okay.

Um and then what are you most excited about moving forward? It seems like you know Bitcoin's going up a lot. That's

good. People are excited about that. Um

but also it looks like you're trying to figure out what other countries you can go to, you know, after you guys go and penetrate Italy. Today's episode is

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I'm super excited to be frank of of the Italian route. Uh why? because we we

Italian route. Uh why? because we we believe Portugal even there will be soon some legislative changes but we believe that Portugal will remain the sort of best option for Europe because you don't

need to move there so we believe that even in the medium-term the next five years we we have reasons to believe and a bit of we know a bit of rumors from you know maybe which are going to be the political changes

changes we believe Portugal will remain the top one but Italy well everyone I talk to of this program. It's It's very attractive to be frank, very attractive

and and you never know, maybe your your your son wants to go there and and I don't know just study fashion in Milan or or so I'm very excited about Italy

and we are also going to launch a third product um in Portugal. So as I told you, you need to invest alpha million in the fund for the uh you know the the

residency and then citizenship pathway.

Um, so we are going to launch uh also a€ 200,000 euro donation for Portugal in Bitcoin. So you can donate in Bitcoin.

Bitcoin. So you can donate in Bitcoin.

Uh, and we are going to be the first ones offering 200 instead of 250. Um, of

course this is a donation. So you lose the capital and uh you may ask me why if I can invest half a million sometimes you know the entry point matters and some people maybe prefer to say okay the

entry point is lower I just donate. So,

I don't believe this is going to be for sure the primary >> Well, in taxes, right? If I have Bitcoin that I bought at a low price and it's appreciated a lot, if I donate it, I

don't pay taxes on it. And so, uh, it's a way to give away capital gains and get something in return.

>> That's great. I I I never all for all matters of American taxing, I'm always a bit confused, but I this could be >> Oh, don't worry. Americans, we're very well verssed in taxes. Our government's

constantly, you know, trying to figure out all these different ways. You ever

heard of the congestion tax? You know

what that is?

>> No.

>> In Europe they have it, but now we have it in America is the congestion tax is uh when you drive below a certain street here in New York below 59th Street, they tax you.

>> Oh my. Oh yeah.

>> From one side of town to the other side of town. Said why you do that? They said

of town. Said why you do that? They said

cuz we want to prevent congestion.

>> Doesn't really too much make sense. But

but I have to say New York is amazing energy. I will definitely be here

energy. I will definitely be here because as I was telling you before, you know, you need places with energy for running businesses and people want to build organically things. But on the other side, it's very expensive. I paid

for a sandwich essentially 15 bucks in in Portugal.

>> Yeah. But it was like Portugal you get with three. So, a joke actually I'm

with three. So, a joke actually I'm going to post a joke online like saying if you if you manage to work remotely from from you know from Portugal in in New York and you just with the money you save if you invest in Bitcoin or ETF

you're going to be to to retire in five years >> 100%. See, it's it's it's Uber.

>> 100%. See, it's it's it's Uber.

Yesterday, we wanted to get an Uber.

Here was like $160, right? In the uh it was raining, so

right? In the uh it was raining, so there was eventually a >> like the search pricing and everything.

>> For sure. You know, in fair because it's a market, but on the other hand, there could be places where you can, you know, your morning can buy much more there.

>> Well, uh the joke in New York, which is a very sad joke, is every time you walk outside of your apartment, $100.

It just somehow no matter where you go, what you do, right? Go to the grocery store, $100. Get get in the Uber, go

store, $100. Get get in the Uber, go somewhere to eat, $100. Like go to the office, somehow $100.

>> We have a similar joke, you know, which essentially says, you know, they're going to tax also the hair the air you you breathe, right? So% if they can figure out how to do that here in America, they would 100% do it, right?

They just haven't figured it out yet. So

don't give them any ideas. All right.

How do people find uh the product, find you, learn more about this uh and potentially participate?

>> Of course. So you can go online on bizenship.com. It's like citizenship but

bizenship.com. It's like citizenship but with a B. So it's bitcoin citizenship bizenship.com. You can apply. We will,

bizenship.com. You can apply. We will,

you know, our team will contact you uh within 24 hours. Uh I'm very much um active online if you want to >> are working. I I see you online.

>> I try to do my best. I mean it's never enough. I'm trying to to put more more

enough. I'm trying to to put more more energy. My my ex account is D al Palumbo

energy. My my ex account is D al Palumbo and I also write a substack newsletter every every actually Saturday on global living global citizenship. I I try to

share all because I lived across seven different countries. I built businesses

different countries. I built businesses regulated and not regretted in many jurisdictions. So I I I realized that a

jurisdictions. So I I I realized that a lot of friends asking me quite advice about structuring. So I I try to give

about structuring. So I I try to give hopefully valuable insights about relocation tax optimization structures and I write it it is every Saturday. So

if you want to follow me on substack you will find me under Palombo which is which is my surname uh.sapstack.com

safag.com and uh yeah we would love to be in touch with anyone interested. Also

if you are just thinking about relocating you know and and getting into golden visa program our team will be able to give you hopefully the best overview and right now Portugal Italy we

are covered but we will be soon in other countries as soon as the frameworks will allow it.

>> Amazing. You're a lawyer right?

>> Qualified lawyer.

>> That would be an amazing law firm.

Palumbo and Pompiano like you know let us know if you get hit by a car we'll be there.

Well, yeah, there actually I think running a law firm in the states with, you know, kind of, you know, how do you call it in English? But

essentially those practices when you you get hit by a car, it's a good business.

I mean, >> oh, they sue for anything. Yeah, 100%.

>> If you if you if you drive down the street in like a lot of towns, you see like uh like injury lawyers, what like crazy stuff. But that's one of the

crazy stuff. But that's one of the difference between Europe and the US because here it even doing advertising for law firms is allowed. In Italy there are strong limitations. It's borderline

legal. So you can't even buy a bill um you know the billboard or you can't even say how many cases you won but because I read you should have been a lawyer right this was the initial uh trajectory.

>> Everyone when I was a kid they used to say that I was going to be a lawyer because I like to argue with everyone. I

said look it's debating. You call it arguing. I call it debating.

arguing. I call it debating.

>> It's never never too late.

But >> no, you know, you know what's funny is uh here in America, this is some alpha for people out there. Uh historically,

you weren't allowed to own uh part of a law firm if you weren't a lawyer.

>> Oh, >> it makes sense. You got to be a lawyer, whatever. Um but they changed the rule

whatever. Um but they changed the rule in a couple of uh states where now you can own I think up to 49% of a law firm if you're not a lawyer. It happened the same in some European countries and you

can do these companies among lawyers and you can have also people participating only with capital and yeah that to be frank that makes sense because sometimes I'm a big believer so I I don't see

myself at any time becoming a lawyer but I mean practicing effectively uh I'm not registered in any barist association and I don't although I I could by by by

right but I I believe there is a lot of room of improvement on on that side as well and partially by the way my companies they always deal in one way or the other with legal regulatory issues

because just zooming out you know I'm I'm we are as a family and as a business we're growing really fast as as as citizenship but um my also my interest and you can find it online also with my

other start and maybe one day we can discuss about it I I really believe it's time to make a change on all governmental matters because to be frank uh you know there is a I think we are

all frustrated a bit with governments and to be frank I don't think it's a matter of a particular government failing citizens. I think it's a matter

failing citizens. I think it's a matter of maybe old systems. >> Mhm.

>> In the end, you know, we are using the same systems of 200 years ago. And I

think in the next 50 years, there will be a major change on the on that side.

And >> Bitcoin is a major change.

>> 100%.

>> Right. It's kind of a decentralized digital, you know, technology product that uh I think has forced a lot of people to think a lot differently. And

it's crazy if you think that, you know, the major probably obst obstacle to Bitcoin adoption was eventually an an adversarial government stance, governmental stance. And with the Trump

governmental stance. And with the Trump administration, like it or not, you know, there's been an opening from the most important country in the world. And

this this changed all the the spectrum for Bitcoin adoption. So right now, you know, better than me than me, but everyone in finance, you know, eventually until yesterday literally a bit skeptical. They are all recommending

bit skeptical. They are all recommending 5% allocation plus. So it's it's a the word is changing and sometimes money come first and then government.

>> Yeah, it's interesting. All right. So

bitcitizenship uh bit citizenship is the way to to say it. All right. It's just

uh what's the website again?

>> Uh www.pitisenship.com.

bitenship.com. All right. So if if people probably search Bitcoin citizenship, you guys are number one, right?

>> We hope so. We are trying to work at best on SEO, but for now X or Twitter is a bit bit citizen.

>> Citizenship, right? All right. So, NonX.

>> NonX, of course.

>> Amazing. All right. Well, thank you for doing this. Uh I am uh every time I talk

doing this. Uh I am uh every time I talk to you, I'm super excited about like you guys just keep growing, which is obviously really uh really fun and exciting too.

>> Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

>> All right. We'll do it again in the future.

>> 100%. Thank you so much.