Global Hospitality Insights Unleashed

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Well, welcome to another Tech Bites podcast, but this is sort of a uh an unusual one because you would think that I get to talk to my friends all the

time, but that isn't true. And so I've got Ted her in Australia and John Burns in Phoenix. And welcome to Tech Bites.

in Phoenix. And welcome to Tech Bites.

>> Thank you. Thank you.

>> So, this may be the longest conversation we've had in a while that's not over.

Well, he's got his beer there, so I I don't know what that was you were drinking there, but uh we saw each other a few weeks ago at uh Hi-Tech, but it just seems like we see each other at

different analyst days and things like that as well. And I just thought, you know, maybe we just sort of start out with high-tech and just sort of talk about, you know, what was your just

overall impression? Not necessarily

overall impression? Not necessarily anything specific, but did you come out with like afterwards if somebody said, "How was it?" you would say, I would say it was busy. It was well

attended and it was a great networking opportunity as it always is. Pardon me.

A big struggle in this business especially as we're all working remotely now uh is to just keep in touch with people and exchange ideas to find out

what's going on. So high-tech is a trade show. High-tech is an educational

show. High-tech is an educational environment, but it's also a a wonderful gathering opportunity. And it was that

gathering opportunity. And it was that again this year. And you could stand in the exhibit hall or in front of the registration desk and the whole world of hospitality technology.

>> Should I ask you how many high-techs you've been to?

>> Um, more than I've got fingers for. So, but

>> there you go.

>> It's a good reunion and it's an important reunion. But I do agree

important reunion. But I do agree because uh you know once or twice a I probably see you once or twice a year.

Ted I might see once a year or once every other year. So it is a good opportunity to get together in in person and really sort of chat about things.

Ted, what did you think?

>> I tend to agree with John. Um that to to be more precise that was my 36th hi-tech. I've only missed two high-techs

hi-tech. I've only missed two high-techs owned a co.

>> You're you probably don't count very well there in Australia. There have been over 52 hi-tech. So you've been at 36.

You've missed more than two.

>> That's well yes. Okay. Since I've only missed two since 1989. All right, let's rephrase it. But yes, look, the reason I

rephrase it. But yes, look, the reason I go is the opportunity to network. I

mean, it's difficult to have in-depth presentations on the floor. I'm I go there a lot to, you know, meet with fellow consultants, uh, get an update from people. Um, it I agree.

from people. Um, it I agree.

Indianapolis, well, it was different.

I've never been there before. I'd hardly

consider it an international destination but you know believe it or not some of the uh functions and that's where the networking is done were very well done.

I had an opportunity to uh you know attend a consultants briefing session on the last day as John did u which was very good. Um we got a lot of

very good. Um we got a lot of information about you know the new the new vehicle that you know is now which was Saber hospitality solution which is

now coming out of uh with TPG in a new entity. So yes no I suppose the only

entity. So yes no I suppose the only thing I would say is probably is that you know at high-tech I did see some interesting new ideas but I probably still get the sense that you know the

number one talking point is is artificial intelligence. If you don't

artificial intelligence. If you don't have a position on artificial intelligence, >> oh, you had to go there, right?

>> I know there's nothing wrong if you don't have a position.

>> You you can't you can't go to any single conference or meeting with somebody wanting to talk about AI. And and I've been trying to change that narrative to say, why don't we just talk about, you

know, the the outcome, you know, the actionable items that are going to come from it or actionable information. I I

should just make the assumption that the AI is there.

>> Yep.

>> You know that it's already in there. Um

and and I I will tell you as an observation, every show I go to now or every conference, I read the signage above the aisle and I even though AI was a big subject, I didn't see AI on every

aisle above it or in every booth. And I

have seen that in the past.

>> Yep.

Yeah. I I think you're right actually in terms of the I think there's not enough emphasis yet on the process side. How do

companies prepare themselves to take advantage of the b the technology benefits that AI brings to the table?

And I think that's where we need to move to rather than yes, we're doing something and it's going to do this. I'm

now looking at testimonials and re return on investment opportunities and how hotels have you know got worked their processes internally to take advantage of the technology that AI

brings.

>> Well, yeah, John, >> I find myself looking and marveling at how quickly AI is evolving. So, I feel

for the people on the show floor who are working, they've been working for six or nine months trying to bring uh AI into this application. Meanwhile, AI has

this application. Meanwhile, AI has changed new versions that come along every week. So, they're forever playing

every week. So, they're forever playing catch-up. The the cutting edge is

catch-up. The the cutting edge is incredibly impressive, but integrating it into daytoday, especially behind the scenes, is a real chore.

Well, you know, as an observation on that because uh I've been talking to a lot of people just in general and one of the unfortunate or fortunate things of having been around for a while in the

industry is I started to realize it's really actually nothing new. I mean, you guys would remember the term expert systems, >> right? Yep. And you know, when you want

>> right? Yep. And you know, when you want to clone your expert basically and teach it the knowledge of the expert so it could make decisions and help us. Well,

in this case, the expert is the collective expert of all of the minds out there and all the data that's now available because unlike in those days, it's now connected together, but in

reality, it isn't really something new.

And uh we still have to train it. Um,

>> yep.

>> And I guess maybe the acceptance part of it or the reason why Ted to your point that people may not know how to use it as well is because not everybody's using in their regular life. How many people

are actually using the AI tool that's in the in the uh you know in the bar on their on their browser, you know, or on their phone.

>> I think we're still a little intimidated and a little mystified. At the same time, we're a little amazed. I I look at

translations that AI does. I look at summaries of documents. I look at uh copy that I ask it to put together and

sometimes it's stunning. Sometimes it's

better written than I can do. I There's

something there.

>> It's what better written than you would do.

>> No question.

>> Yeah. But you can always put it in your voice, right? Because I I've had my hand

voice, right? Because I I've had my hand slapped a couple times. Somebody said,

"Hey, did you uh" I said, "So I learned, right?" So I said go read the articles

right?" So I said go read the articles I've written or the speeches I've made and then come back and put it in my voice.

>> Neat approach.

>> Yeah. I think

>> do you think Ted that that that is there an adoption difference in different parts of the world?

>> No, I don't think so. I think John's point's a valid one. In fact, you know, I'm almost now when I'm writing up my executive summaries or recommendations,

I'm looking at what does what does uh AI think about my ideas. There's still the element of the personalization. Your

personal opinions can't always be totally reflected in using an AI approach to something. But it's always worthwhile to look at, you know, when they're scanning everything else to say, have I forgotten something? And in

John's case, is right. I mean, you know, things are getting interesting when now when you have Facebook and LinkedIn and down the bottom they say, "Do you want

right um do you want uh you know, have AI rewrite it for you better?" Right. I

had to give a >> Well, that is that is something that's sort of embedded in it that it wants to be a helper, right? Yes. So, so I sort of get that. Um I was talking to a consultant in the food service industry.

Not not a tech consultant, but actually it was probably good it wasn't a tech consultant. So, I was talking to an

consultant. So, I was talking to an operational consultant and he was saying to me, Rob, you know, explain this thing to me. And I said, well, why don't we

to me. And I said, well, why don't we went out, we had coffee, Starbucks, of course. So, we uh we went out and um

course. So, we uh we went out and um we're sitting there. I said, let me just ask you a question. You know, what do people what do you why they hire you?

You know, what what do you do? And and

he told me I said, "Well, when you write your report, what is it that they think that they're going to get special from you?" And he gives me what they do. And

you?" And he gives me what they do. And

I said, "Well, to write that report, what do you collect? What do you ask him for? What's your list? Right? So, we sat

for? What's your list? Right? So, we sat there at a coffee shop because he had his computer. I said, "Do me a favor.

his computer. I said, "Do me a favor.

Send me a couple of reports you've written recently and then send me the data the customer gave you." And we did that and I said, "Okay, let's just put this in and have it write a report based

on the data and do an analysis and see how close it is to where you came out."

Personalization, of course, Ted. And you

know what? It wasn't that far off. And I

sort of realize that maybe people just don't think that they can use these things. Their natural inclination isn't

things. Their natural inclination isn't to do that.

>> Well, I think at the end of the day when you start looking at that Rob, you start thinking, you know, what's the future of consultants? Is our knowledge base being

consultants? Is our knowledge base being diminished because we are using that tool? But I just think it's a useful

tool? But I just think it's a useful exercise. I mean, I'll give you a good

exercise. I mean, I'll give you a good example. I was recently writing a report

example. I was recently writing a report on the benefits or disadvantages of a best of breed single vendor versus multiple vendors using APIs and I asked

the question >> big subject >> I know but it came up with some really interesting points that I had not even thought about and you think that's when I start to think gee am I going to is my

role as a consultant going to be diminished because I'm using a tool set that's expanding my uh knowledge base if that to use that but it was quite interesting what they came up with,

right? And I was able just as you do to

right? And I was able just as you do to compare what they had to say versus what my opinions had been formed based on, you know.

>> Yeah. But there's a difference because, you know, they always talk about robots and AI at least for the time being because never's a long time. Yes. You

know, of taking the empathy and the passion out of our industry in hospitality. And the difference is is

hospitality. And the difference is is that you know the questions to ask.

you're able to tell the personality of the de people you're dealing with in the customer base and the computer's not going to do that. It really can work from statistics today.

>> Yep.

>> It's not looking at the facial expression when somebody and and it's coming, right? So, you actually have

coming, right? So, you actually have that personalization in there that you can take the data >> and then, you know, put it out in a way that is meaningful to them that maybe is

a nuance that a computer is not going to do.

>> Yep.

John, what do you think?

>> Actually, I'd like to approach it from a different angle if I may. What I

encounter time and again is people saying that artificial intelligence is going to help us with personalization in dealing with hotel guests. And it's

going to be able to look at the database and come back with recommendations. And

uh as you drill down, we're still talking pretty primitive stuff. It's

going to say, "Here is the rate to recommend or this person had a corner room the last time. Offer them a corner room and see if you can upsell them."

I think there is an opportunity for going through the huge database of information we have about any one of us and being able to come up with more

personalized offers. But in a lot of

personalized offers. But in a lot of cases, our databases aren't sufficiently granular right now. Uh, I understand

that it may be able to look at my hotel bill and say that I bought a bottle of wine, but it won't know whether it was a pinon noir or a Chardonnay. It won't

know the brand that I favor. Uh, it's

when we get into folio detail or receipt detail or even lower stuff we don't record at this point. You know, do you like your coffee with sugar or sweetener? When we get to that level,

sweetener? When we get to that level, then we can do some fascinating personalization things. But I think

personalization things. But I think we're a little premature in saying that this is going to be our salvation in terms of improving the relationship with

our guests because there just isn't the level of detail that it can draw on yet.

>> So I have to ask you a question. Yeah.

>> About this. So, um I talked to uh somebody recently uh from Marriott >> and they told me that Marriott has come to the realization that they are the

largest restaurant company in the world.

>> So, I had to think about that for a moment. And what is it 8,000 9,000

moment. And what is it 8,000 9,000 hotels and if you have an average of five or six food and beverage outlets including room service, I guess that could be right. Yet, the systems that

are there. So, what you describe, John,

are there. So, what you describe, John, is if we were in a restaurant and you were or or you were in a Starbucks, you would know exactly how you want the latte and how many pumps of this and

what's there. And I guarantee you it's

what's there. And I guarantee you it's on my app when I order, right? But for

some reason, in hotels, >> I bet they got a lot of data on the stuff that goes on in the hotel and and how you're booking and your room type and do you want to be near the elevator

and they know all those kinds of things.

But when it comes to food and beverage, for some reason the systems seem to be antiquated.

>> I think that's absolutely correct. I

when you describe it, my first inclination is to think we're in the hotel business and the restaurant running a restaurant is a necessary evil

for some hotel. It it was a lot a loser.

You just had to do it if you're going to operate the hotel. And you know, if if I was being blunt, I'd say we didn't take it seriously enough. Or come the 21st

century when details matter, we weren't looking at those consumption details uh the the way Starbucks uh does. So yeah,

good observation.

>> Yeah, but there is the opportunity to do a lot with premium liquors. Uh there's

opportunity with the sports bars and the television systems, you know, the entertainment that's going on. And

>> and Ted, you know, whenever I go out to the Asia Pacific area, you see these group companies that are in hotels and restaurants, and the operators seem to really know how to, you know, how to do

both. And now you see, by the way, these

both. And now you see, by the way, these hotel brands getting into retail, >> but selling towels and beds and all the stuff that they're doing, right?

>> Absolutely. I think the I think the interesting point is is that you know I that information is available but the point is that for some reason you know on a transactional basis on a point of

sales system but for some reason that information is not necessarily being passed across but you know like for example I like ginonics right I like a certain type of peninoir and to be

honest you know it would be nice if that information was gathered and then part of my offering would You know, Ted, as a welcome drink, please go to Bar X and

have your Hrix and Flavor Tonic Water. I

mean, I I would be impressed enough that someone even made the offer in the first place and would certainly take up the opera and would probably finish up in that bar drinking three or four instead of one. So, I I think there's a lot of

of one. So, I I think there's a lot of scope.

>> Well, now now I'm now I'm knowing what you're drinking. So, that it's going to

you're drinking. So, that it's going to be on me, right, to go ahead and uh and buy you that drink, right? But if you have that level of clarity, if you have that level of detail, you can impress,

you can personalize, but we've got to find the >> But you know what?

>> Yeah. You know that word per. So there

are two key words and I want to just take a break for a minute and then just sort of shift off of the because we've left AI anyway, you know, but I would like to talk about what seems to be a

trend out there. There are two words I keep hearing frictionless and personalization. And they seem to be the

personalization. And they seem to be the words of, you know, 2025. So, let's just take a quick break. We'll come back. I'm

with John Burns and Ted her. And we're

just having a conversation about technology starting in the hospitality space, but I know these these guys also uh know a little bit more than just that. And we'll share their observ.

that. And we'll share their observ.

We'll be back in just a minute. With the

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Now, back to the show.

>> So, welcome back. and I'm with Ted her and John Burns and we're just having a conversation between friends. Uh we were comparing notes on some things in the hotel industry, but I' I'd sort of like

to shift it a little bit. Um there were some other takeaways that did surprise me, by the way, at at high-tech. It doesn't have to do with

high-tech. It doesn't have to do with high-tech, but there were some in there.

There was a startup area. It seemed like a startup hall and there was robotics in there and it wasn't the normal robotics which I see which is something you know taking something out to a table and I

know people are playing around with it for housekeeping and things. it was more intelligent robotics and we see these hotels in Japan where they're having robots at the front desk and they're

having AI at the front desk to greet you and Disney used to do that a long time ago and I'm just sort of curious where you see some of the other trends or some of the other technologies out there you

know such as robotics you know being out there or you know generative AI voice recognition and call centers you know because there's a so much that's done

that way Well, we one of the things I know it's taking off here in Australia, we we are a high labor cost country. So,

we're now starting to see the emergence of robots uh in terms of vacuum cleaners, doing corridors, rooms, public space areas because nobody wants to do

those tasks. And it's interesting you

those tasks. And it's interesting you mentioned Japan earlier because the reality is you know that you mentioned that hotel called Hangerin years ago that had but apparently that I'm told

that's it's gone now because people they didn't get the level acceptance and it goes to your point earlier you >> they didn't it may have been before its time.

>> Yeah. Oh absolutely. But I think the issue is and it's this same old story we talk about high techch versus hight touch. If we're moving to a frictionless

touch. If we're moving to a frictionless environment and a lot of that was brought forward by co how do we reconcile the emergence of this new technology which is frictionless but at

the same time still keep an element of personalization or face-toface interaction after all we are still in the hospitality business and I'm seeing various v variations of how that's being

done geographically around the world it's always fascinated me years ago and you've been to Asia Pacific many times yourself that people back in the good old days could at mandarins and the shangrlars could remember all this

information about dead order and it was because they they were highly observant and they had some sort of process of passing that information across across the staff so that when I'm

>> but you don't think it was because the labor was cheap and you could throw a lot of labor at something that other places couldn't throw as much labor. I I

I think there's an element in that, Rob, that yes, that they could hire a lot more people per rate, per guest as opposed to other countries with higher higher labor rates. Yes, I do think

there's a point, but but they at least had a system and add an element of, you know, extra luxury because people would remember your name if you were going they saw your lift and they would say to

you, "How are you today, Mr. Horner?"

Whatever else it was. That was we're talking 15, 20 years ago, right? So,

>> so what happens when we replace you?

Wait, wait, wait. What happens when we replace you with and the customer doesn't know that it's really not Ted that they're talking to? We hear the stories all the time there. And it does

a it is able to personalize. It has the voice. It has, you know,

voice. It has, you know, >> what happens because that's coming, you know, it starts with the the criminals who are doing the fake stuff, but it's coming and people don't know. You know,

I I look the other thing as well is that, you know, we're seeing the emergence of chat bots and stuff asking lots of questions and I sometimes get their very stereotyped answers and

they're not always addressing the specific question per se, but everybody now is pushing that line. And where do you go to get the next level of detail

because it may not necessarily come from a chatbot type orientated scenario.

Well, the chat bots just annoy annoy me a lot. But but when I actually can Hey,

a lot. But but when I actually can Hey, I I actually have to ask this question that is it worse >> to have a chatbot >> who sort of figures out what you're doing but probably doesn't have all the

answers or is it worse to speak to somebody in a call center in some place where you know it's unfortunately hard to understand and things like that. I

think there's going to be a combination of the both where you have those call centers, but maybe there's even a voice um simulation like you might see on uh Mission Impossible or something where

the person's speaking in one thing, but it's coming out differently. That would

be interesting actually. We should we should try that. We should change up the voices on this.

I look at it and find myself frustrated time and again with the chat bots as as um Ted said the they're too simple

at this point. They're not understanding the question and in most cases we as human beings ask poor questions. You

know, no wonder the machine can't understand us. But we expect if it's a

understand us. But we expect if it's a human, they can sort out the question.

machines can't. Okay, let me zoom off in a different direction. I think we face a real problem in terms of staff and we have to find how to do some things

better. And a lot of those things aren't

better. And a lot of those things aren't front of the house, they're back of the house. And what has been fascinating me

house. And what has been fascinating me are the couple of vendors who are focusing on RPA, robotic process automation. So where we used to go

automation. So where we used to go through uh the night audit uh forms where we used to uh do credit card reconciliation or review the

long-distance bill or so many things that were just mind-numbing but we did them year after year after year. I think

we're making progress now in automating a lot of those dumb things that were just killing our staff. So now we can't get the staff to do it and we're finding better ways to do it with automation. I

like that.

>> Well, you know what? I might might agree with >> Well, I might agree with you on that, but uh how many times even uh recently in a trip I took last week did I come down to the front desk to want to check

out at 5 in the morning and they told me they can't do it because they're still running the uh end of day.

We still haven't gotten over the idea of a 24-hour day that these things keep going. I think, you know, that they just

going. I think, you know, that they just keep going like that. I I don't quite get that one actually.

>> Well, now now it has to be said that the latest generation of PMS's don't need to have that end of process. It's it's a a a flip of a switch. But we have a

pattern, a trend, a legacy in the hotel business of keeping the PMS till it's absolutely dead. So the PMS in that

absolutely dead. So the PMS in that hotel was installed 35 years ago. It's

not quite >> that that makes no sense. Wait, that

makes no sense. The PMS is a piece of software. It's not like a point of sale

software. It's not like a point of sale system, which is a piece of hardware or a frier or something, you know, you got to replace. So, I don't quite actually

to replace. So, I don't quite actually understand what you just said because it's so much easier to replace a piece of software.

>> Well, yes, but uh we've got a whole generation of these old systems that were bought, purchased. The license is there. People are not doing software as

there. People are not doing software as a service. These are old purchase

a service. These are old purchase arrangements and they're going to keep the system and the software that's in it as long as they possibly can.

>> Maybe it's because of the integration and the number of interfaces they have to deal with.

>> Uh or we're just not accustomed to the idea of of refreshing our technology on a regular basis. You know, let me ask you guys this. You know, because when you've been around a while and and it's

funny because I've been saying recently to a lot of people, I keep having these deja vu moments that things that people think are brand new I saw many years ago and maybe they were before their time.

Like we said before, is there something that you both have seen in the past that you just thought was a great technology?

It was before its time, but you still believe it's going to happen.

That's an interesting question. I I

flash back through all the startups I've encountered over the years that have failed and some of them uh they were due to wireless processing and all kinds of

things were just too early. There was a great idea, but it it with the available technology and the available mindset of

the customer, it it it just didn't work.

>> Um, the one that frustrates me the most, >> I mean, I I see them, >> the one that frustrates me, what's that?

And same with I'm sure it appears to you. Why is it that when Ted her flies

you. Why is it that when Ted her flies overseas and arrives at a hotel at six o'clock or 7 o'clock in the morning that I have to buy a room the night before?

Why can't I buy and go into a room at 6:00 in the morning and check out inside the 24 hours? Now, I don't know why hotels and airports have it, but for

some reason it's it's something that's frustrated me for years and years that they have to >> truck stops have it, too. Truck stops

have it as well.

>> Yeah.

>> And for some reason, >> that may be for a different reason.

>> Yeah. Yes. But for some reason don't want >> Wait a minute.

>> Yep.

>> So, let you know what that is such a great comment. Um, now we could theorize

great comment. Um, now we could theorize as to why that is. Uh, I will tell you though >> that if I follow trends, you know, like

one of my tech peeves would be the fact that I don't get free internet on the airline.

>> Okay. And so now, and remember when in the room you used to have to pay a fortune for internet. Then they gave it to the higher level. Now everybody gets free internet, right? Y

>> so I've started to see some major hotel chains have a class of people who are their premier premier people out there that do have a 24-hour clock

>> that can check in and the and the clock starts at that point. So that tells me that if they do that that maybe in five or 6 years >> that'll be offered to everybody.

But maybe it's a labor issue, John.

Maybe it's a, you know, we got to be able to uh service rooms and things 24 hours and we may not have the labor to do it. And maybe maybe that's where the

do it. And maybe maybe that's where the opportunity is. I think part of it's a

opportunity is. I think part of it's a lab an labor opport.

Uh but I think part of it is just our our conventional mindset. uh a decade ago, Sheritan was uh uh promoting this

idea that you get 24 hours and it was fairly widespread for a few months or a few seasons and then died away and I don't know whether it died because of

lack of interest or administrative hurdles that needed to be overcome.

>> Well, they may not had the technology to handle it either.

>> I actually think it's just this is the way we do it and we're not going to change. We are locked into a traditional

change. We are locked into a traditional pattern and so >> bothered.

>> No, but you know what? I I get the idea.

>> Yeah.

>> That you know that you're saying that people are locked into it and they don't want to do change. And maybe when I look at change, change comes from other parts of the world. Yeah,

>> change comes from the next generation that is just so used to using a handheld, you know, a phone that they don't even need their computer to type their stuff. Change comes from other

their stuff. Change comes from other industries that do it to us. So in the restaurant industry, I see it coming from retail. I see it coming from hotels

from retail. I see it coming from hotels because once they have kiosks and airlines, they expect it somewhere there. So maybe the change comes because

there. So maybe the change comes because somebody else does it or the customer demands it. Innovation is not in our DNA

demands it. Innovation is not in our DNA as hotel operators. I look at what I think was the greatest example of

innovation and that's the heavenly bed.

So here here was Weston and uh oh my mind suddenly gone blank. Um

the fellow who has brought back Starwood. Who am I trying to think of?

Starwood. Who am I trying to think of?

>> Oh uh Steve, not Steve Casease. Um

>> it was u Oh gosh. I know who exactly who you're talking about with Starwood and he's back by the way. It's um

>> uh >> yeah, he's come back recently.

>> This does not speak well for my memory.

And you know, he was an outsider. He was

a frequent traveler, but he was not a hotelier. And when he became involved

hotelier. And when he became involved because of private equity in Starwood and Sheron, rather Weston, uh he said, "What matters?"

"What matters?" >> Barry Sternick.

>> Barry Sternlick. Yes. So

>> the hard drive takes a little bit of time, you know, to come around to the name right?

>> The world found it. So Stern said, "What matters is the mattress. What matters is the sleep. What matters is a good

the sleep. What matters is a good night." And we till then had said,

night." And we till then had said, "We're going to buy the cheapest, hardest, most durable mattress we can find." And we celebrated a two thou a

find." And we celebrated a two thou a $200 mattress. Along comes this outsider

$200 mattress. Along comes this outsider who says, "We need a $2,000 mattress and we are going to do it." And he upset the entire apple cart and we all win as a

result. Then he did the heavenly shower

result. Then he did the heavenly shower and we went from a trickle out of this poor little thing pounded on the wall to the whole uh generation of showers we

have now. But an outsider did it. Uh

have now. But an outsider did it. Uh

more recently, Citizen M. And all of Citizen M is outsiders. They've been

very radical and they're talking about subscriptions where you can have a subscription membership to the hotel and it gives you uh for a few hundred a

month privileged access to availability a free drink when you check in. You

know outsiders.

>> But by the way, by the way, it is creative thinking that comes from the outside and um and and a lot of times an entrepreneur comes up with it. I find it very interesting what hotels seem to be

getting into today. you know, I see cruise ships, I see airplanes, and I also see tiny houses, which, you know, is just amazing to me that somebody's just, you know, might as well just have

a attempt because everything's blurring there. Um, and you know, Ted, when we

there. Um, and you know, Ted, when we talk about why are people slow to adopt change in our industry, why can't we get that bed? Why can't we have 24-hour? Do

that bed? Why can't we have 24-hour? Do

you have a theory behind that?

>> I do. And I think one of the biggest issues I believe is that the vendors in our space do not articulate in my humble

opinion a direct ROI. I deal with owners owners are more cynical about technology. Um and when you've got a

technology. Um and when you've got a budget for a hotel, right? Um when

you've got a budget for a hotel, you have it has to compete with everything else. So I I think the problem is as

else. So I I think the problem is as well is vendors don't interact much with owners or decision makers.

>> You know there's a I always follow what's going on in the consumer side of electronics.

>> Yep.

>> And um you know there are things that just sort of get me excited because I think that they're going to make a big difference on the hospitality side. U

for me personally it's the trifold phone which Samsung will have finally come out with and Huawei came out with a year ago. I think that with that kind of

ago. I think that with that kind of tablet, a person can, you know, take orders, they can do all kinds of things, you know, multifunctional type of thing.

Is there something that you guys see in the consumer area that you just think is going to when it finds its way into hospitality is just going to take us by storm?

I I look at state-of-the-art digital presentation and don't find it in hotels but in uh gaming for instance what is

possible in terms of remarkable presentation on screen and then I look at what we're doing to portray our

product and it can be food but certainly in terms of lodging we are so lackluster I worry.

I'm fascinated with the thought that we may be able to grab cutting edge e-commerce technique and use it and apply it in the presentation of our

accommodation. And now our accommodation

accommodation. And now our accommodation surrounded by experience, but I just am not convinced we have the motivation to do it. And I worry,

do it. And I worry, >> do you think that the gaming industry does lead the way in a lot of the technologies? cuz in the past they seem

technologies? cuz in the past they seem to be pretty old technologies but they do seem when it comes to digital they seem to have a lot when it comes to customer preference. Ted, you got, you

customer preference. Ted, you got, you know, a lot of gaming going out there in Asia and there's, you know, >> Drew, I can't really, unfortunately, I'm not a gamer, so I I really can't make

much commentary in that respect, but I think to some extent, I tend to agree with I think we've also got a lot to do with um virtual. I I still think we've got a lot to to do in the virtual

reality space. I don't think we do a

reality space. I don't think we do a very good job um you know proposing showing hotels in the best

light uh you know and the other thing as well that I see happening is more and more efforts with technology in marketing um revenue outside the room to

hotels more hotels now to be more experiential I think with we if you look at some of the companies that are specializing that in those experiential environments we as an industry Indry

have done a very poor job. I look at I remember Serge Brazan a couple of years ago CEO of Aqual saying that 40% of our business is outside the hotels. What are

we doing to try and encourage the local community to embrace the services? We've

invested in food and beverage. We've

invested in spa and other but what are we doing to try and encourage those people to actually use our facilities.

So I I think we've got a long way to go in the marketing of those of those services to to our potential guests.

Hey, you know what though? I think

you've made a a very good point there.

You know who seems to do that well is the cruise ship industry.

>> Yep.

>> Because, you know, they park the cruise ship, but they've got those tours and they've got all those if it's not to their own island, you know, but uh you know, they've got all the tours and the day trips and they have a lot of the

relationships with the local places. Do

you think that we're going to start >> a a deja vu moment? United Airlines,

Avis Car Rental, and there was a third one in there. What was it? Allegis, I

think the name of the company was with a hotel group, right? Was Western Hotels, I think. That's right.

I think. That's right.

>> And it was a partnership. Do you think we're going to end up seeing a either a partnership official, you know, where they're acquire where you see an airline, a hotel, a cruise ship, you

know, a restaurant company all coming together again in a single unit or is it just going to be in the ecosystem partnerships? I think it's going to be

partnerships? I think it's going to be more in partnerships. Yeah. Although I

we may be outside of the conventional players. I look at Airbnb and they have

players. I look at Airbnb and they have completely retoled their display and reservation platform to support experiences. They've spent tens of

experiences. They've spent tens of millions of dollars because they believe they can really benefit by offering a more substantial and more rewarding

offering. Rewarding to them financially,

offering. Rewarding to them financially, rewarding to the traveler. So I think we've got people around the edges otaas as well who are looking at how you have

these new combinations and really effectively present them and sell them. They're going to disrupt.

sell them. They're going to disrupt.

>> Yeah, I I tend to agree. I think it's more going to be building partnerships which are you mutually beneficial across the whole uh the spectrum rather than a

single entity trying to buy into other things and do things. You know, I think that probably uh but I do think there's a lot of space and opportunity for

partnerships to develop to to provide curated experiences beyond the room and I think we've got a long way to go yet for hotels and I'm going to be interested to see some of the big hotels

like you look at Marriott their biggest they claim their biggest asset is their 230 million or whatever they've got bonvoy members but then I look at the same time you look now with millennials

and selenials that are not that interested in loyalty. So trying to match where is MAR going to do as their Bonvoy members pass what are they going

to do to try and drive that level of loyalty and I think maybe partnering with experiential companies that are in that space might be some an answer to

retaining or growing their membership base.

>> I I agree with you. It's going to be about the experience that people have no matter how they get it. But they're

going to look at uh the hospitality companies coming together to create that experience when you travel, you know, uh that you're doing that. And I think that your point about Marriott and Bonvoy,

you know, I was it's so funny you brought that up because I was complaining about something the other day and I had to look it up and I said I've been, you know, at the top of the heap there for over 20 years. Well, it

turns out I've been at the top status for 32 years, but I've been 35 years.

And the only reason that it's not longer than that because I found I realized this just the other day that they started that program in 1983. Do you

want to know why? Why I'm not longer than 35 years?

>> No. It had a limit.

>> It's because I worked for Marriott for a number of years and you couldn't do it.

No. And so my years started counting after I left Marriott. Then I was able to do it.

>> Just as a moment of history, Mr. Grimes, in 1989, my first hi-tech was at Phoenix. It's

never been there since. And I remember going to a session where a married employee was talking about point of sale and that that was your yours truly. So

that's how far back we you go when it comes to Marriott.

Well, you know, we could we could certainly compare notes on that, but but listen, um, you know, just sort of as a parting thought, since since you both are, and I should have pointed this out

at the beginning, you are hall of fame members of the HFTP high-tech, which means you are forever enshrined on that

board with your picture that I now see every year. And um so since you have all

every year. And um so since you have all these years of wisdom, you know, what is your prediction of where you and this is a a big question, but it probably needs

just a little answer. You know, where do you believe that the greatest innovation in the hospitality industry would be if we just looked 5 years out? Because I

think 2 to 3 years is too close. But

what is the biggest innovation in the experience or where technology is going to have its impact in five or 10 years?

>> You first headed.

>> Oh, thank you. Well, I'm I mean I saw a little company at high-tech this year called that won the 20x entrepreneurship company called Lvie. Very interesting.

And I look at what they're doing, right?

and using AI, sorry, use that term again, where they're analyzing a room to see if there's anything wrong, which is eventually going to replace the need for a supervisor to check a room after it's

been cleaned. Then you start thinking

been cleaned. Then you start thinking about where that's the first iteration.

Where is that going to go? And I think there are a lot of opportunities in that if you go beyond that particular application, I see that really coming to

play where we can look at things that we can speed up the process or in I think of it in terms of I'm a guest, a VIP.

I'm waiting in the foyer to get my room.

If I can get my room earlier because of of the introduction of a new piece of technology, I really think, you know, that's advantageous. It's a win. It's a

that's advantageous. It's a win. It's a

a win a win for everybody. So, I see more of that type of technology really coming to the four over the next three to five years >> to speed up the process and to be able

to act more efficiently and then perhaps get you to your 24-hour check-in.

>> Hey, absolutely, Mr. Burns.

>> John, let me tie together several things we've said and fairly briefly. We talked

about Barely Sternlick and what he has done with the heavenly bed and the heavenly shower. He tried and succeeded

heavenly shower. He tried and succeeded marvelously in another venture.

I remember when he announced the name of his new hotel company W. And I said to people, no one would ever go to a hotel

named W. Well, was I wrong? Fabulously

named W. Well, was I wrong? Fabulously

wrong. We had innovation internally.

Something we had uh overlooked the opportunity to have spirit and personality within the hotel. Okay. He

taught us that uh I'm going to call him a hotelier now. We can still come with good ideas. I think if we can apply that

good ideas. I think if we can apply that innovative spirit, there's the opportunity to personalize. And I'm

going to go and talk about the restaurant business and say years ago someone said to me the most important factor in building repeat business in a

restaurant is if the host or the hostess or the matraee says welcome back Mr. Burns. Just a little bit of recognition

Burns. Just a little bit of recognition have a huge impact. We with our personalization technology and our focus

on personalization can soon greet people, respect them, acknowledge them, and uh have an ongoing relationship. I think we're going to use

relationship. I think we're going to use all that we're learning, putting together including AI to be more personal and more welcoming.

>> And there's an area where the restaurant industry can learn from the hospitality industry who does know how to do that.

So, the only other thought that came to mind with your example about, you know, who would have thought you could have succeeded with a name like W Hotels? I

mean, who would have thought that TED talks would be so popular, you know, beats me.

Anyway, uh listen guys, it's been a pleasure having this long range conversation with you. I certainly look forward to getting together again somewhere. Uh maybe not Indianapolis

somewhere. Uh maybe not Indianapolis dead, but we'll figure something out in between Australia, Phoenix, Washington DC. We'll figure something out. So guys,

DC. We'll figure something out. So guys,

thank you very much for joining me on on Tech Bites today and I'm sure we will continue this conversation elsewhere.

>> Rob, it's been great fun.

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