He sold 87M at 34 years old

Every year I want someone on my team to get promoted or to pay off their house.

No screens in our house at all. We have

no subscriptions to Netflix or Amazon Prime or anything like that in the evenings and uh on the weekends we are outside or we're working with our hands or something like that.

>> Enterprise rep at Salesforce at 22.

>> Yep. I was major imposttor syndrome like big time. I had no I didn't think I

big time. I had no I didn't think I belonged. Yeah. I've never really talked

belonged. Yeah. I've never really talked about this outside of you know my close-knit friends and colleagues and family. happy to do it if it helps

family. happy to do it if it helps someone else. Uh,

someone else. Uh, >> welcome everyone to this month's Fireside Chat. And I don't say this

Fireside Chat. And I don't say this lightly, but you know, I love these chats, but this one I'm actually more excited about than than any that I can remember in the in the past because um,

Mike has never gone public with his story. He's somebody some of the best

story. He's somebody some of the best sellers, some of the highest performing sellers are the ones that you never see, you never hear of because they're not on LinkedIn. They're not posting or

LinkedIn. They're not posting or bragging or trying to build a brand.

They're just out going and and and selling and crushing it. And the people in their own companies know them, but um no one else does. And so if you came from Salesforce or Snowflake, you

already know Mike. But Mike and I go go way back eight years. Um him and I were at Salesforce on the same team under Jen Legaly, and we were both vying for the

number one position, and Mike reminded me of that on our prep call. um he he sold 5.4 million net new ACV that year and I I did 58 so I edged him out for

the number one spot and and he didn't let me forget that. Um but Mike has a has an even more impressive track record than I do as far as consistency. So he's

hit his his number as a RVP and as a individual contributor 12 of 13 years he in his sales career as an IC was always

making between 500 to a million. So

really crushing it and personally along with his teams has contributed 87 million in net new ACV um as an IC and

as an RVP in new business and over 200 million in in deals. Um he was one of the top Salesforce AES. Then he was promoted to enterprise RVP where he

crushed it for four more years. And now

he's over at Snow Snowflake leading their enterprise healthcare and life sciences team where he continues to develop many top performing Snowflake

AES. And personally um he lives in

AES. And personally um he lives in Minneapolis. He's a husband and father

Minneapolis. He's a husband and father and he has five kids under 8 years old and he told me he's three years sober which I thought was awesome. So um he's doing it in the personal life, in the

health realm, in in the sales realm.

Here's the craziest part. He's only 35 years old. So 12 of 13 years, if my math

years old. So 12 of 13 years, if my math is correct, 22 years old, you got into sales and you've just been been a a force in the industry. So today we're going to dive in and really understand

how he does what he what he does. And

let's just start by saying welcome, Mike. It's great to have you here.

Mike. It's great to have you here.

>> Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me.

That's a impressive reading of my bio and I'm only slightly uncomfortable so far. So

far. So >> does it feel weird to hear that on paper?

>> It [laughter] Yeah, it does. So, let's

get into it. This will be fun.

>> All right. So, my my first question is is um how do you do it all? So, I I was curious when you told me you have five kids because I know for me like work life balance and running a company, it's

a big part, but I have two kids and I like feel like the real work begins when I get home. So, I'm curious kind of if you have boundaries that you set so you can be present at home, how are you

crushing it running the team and have five kids? like tell me your your uh I

five kids? like tell me your your uh I guess what your your habits or boundaries or routines look like to be able to to to succeed at work and at home.

>> Yeah. Um a couple call outs. One, my

wife is incredible. Um uh like my spouse, she is the rock of our family.

She she was sick recently and I had to take over a lot of the child care duties and I was like, "Oh my goodness, her job is so much harder than mine." you know, and I didn't do a quarter of just the

maintenance work that is gets done every day around the house. So, I was just, you know, I'm always uh floored every time I have to step into that role, just how hard that job is. Um, the other

thing is we've made some pretty intentional choices. So, for example, we

intentional choices. So, for example, we don't do any any screens, no screens in our house at all. Um, we have one family computer. We have no uh subscriptions to

computer. We have no uh subscriptions to Netflix or Amazon Prime or anything like that.

We don't have a big television, not even a not even a teleprompter. Um, and so I get all my screen time at work like this, but then uh in the evenings and uh on the weekends we are outside or we're

working with our hands or something like that. Um, my wife's a veterinarian, so

that. Um, my wife's a veterinarian, so we also have a small hobby farm here that keeps us pretty busy. And um, yeah, but no screens has been a big thing.

>> You said a small farm.

>> Small farm. Yeah, we've got some animals and a barn and all sorts of stuff.

>> What kind of animals?

>> Yeah, goats is my wife's specialty. Uh

but then sheep, pigs, a pony. I bought a pony. I'm kind of ashamed of that,

pony. I'm kind of ashamed of that, frankly. I have four daughters, so I had

frankly. I have four daughters, so I had to buy a pony. Um

>> [laughter] >> uh uh what am I? Oh, chickens, of course. Yeah, we uh made

course. Yeah, we uh made >> the fifth the boy, or did you you just wanted a big family, >> right? Girl, boy, three girls.

>> right? Girl, boy, three girls.

>> Okay, are you done?

>> Yep.

I don't know. It's really up to my wife.

Yeah. And by the way, not Mormon. I get

that question a lot. Um I just we just wanted a big family. If you are Mormon, more power to you. We just for us it was we both worked with kids early in our career. I was a camp counselor for a

career. I was a camp counselor for a long time and we're like we sound big family sounds great.

>> And so it hasn't broken us yet. It's

gotten close, but it hasn't broken us yet.

>> So no screens. That's interesting. I've

never heard that before. No screens. I

have a rule of like no screen time, you know, in the week and we just implemented a couple months ago. It's

been good, but then they're watching TV.

You like what what do you guys do at night? Is it just like homework central

night? Is it just like homework central or just uh >> Yeah, it's uh a lot of a lot of wrestling, a lot of playtime, you know, a lot of just time with the kids. We try

to make a point to eat dinner together every night. Um then there's probably an

every night. Um then there's probably an hour of, you know, playtime down. We got

a big playroom. And yeah, it's funny.

They just because they've never known it, it's never really been an issue. Uh

we have cousins and stuff and they know what a movie is. Like they've seen movies at their cousin's house and stuff like that, but yeah, we um just a lot of toys.

>> What's your philosophy around like electronics in general?

>> I think they're great. I mean, we look at us, we're working in tech here. Like

I think that's awesome. I think it's all about when it's introduced, honestly. Um

and in a constructive way. So I fully intend, you know, to get my my kids introduced to technology. But I figured at this, you know, early stage in their life, like I said, we have five under

eight. Now is not the right time. You

eight. Now is not the right time. You

know, Steve Jobs famously was asked if he got his kids an iPhone and he said absolutely not. And I'm kind of of the

absolutely not. And I'm kind of of the same mindset.

>> Yeah, I hear it's causing a lot of ADHD and it's causing a lot of like anxiety and just behavioral issues. And I see it with my own kids and we we've been, you know, trying to wean them off, but it's it's like now they're just looking

forward to the weekend where they get the the devices again. So,

>> it's also a huge timesaver. I mean, you ask like how do we find the time? That's

it. I mean, it's cra when you I grew up with a TV, you know, we used to watch TV every night and when my wife and I got married, she was like, "Let's try no TV for the first year." I was like, "Okay."

And here we are married 12 years. And

it's like, >> yeah, we just haven't gone back.

>> You're married. When was your wedding?

>> Uh 2013.

>> Okay. I'm 2013, too. We're running a parallel August 2013.

So, >> uh, per usual, you're one ahead of me.

Yep. Uh, so you're you're married right before me.

>> And everything we do, you're just number one and I'm right behind you.

>> Did I tell you I sold 100 million? You

were at 83 if I >> Yep. Yep. You made that clear. Yep.

>> Yep. Yep. You made that clear. Yep.

>> All right. Well, let's let's get in. I I

could talk to you all day. That's why I knew this was going to be interesting.

Um, I I just want to add some commentary. I think we need to go back

commentary. I think we need to go back to the old school, the wrestling, the being outdoors, the playing with animal.

I mean, gosh, I I I'm jealous and envious because you're well more more than one step ahead of me in that department just not having screens and you know the how are the kids like

acclimating to that and just enjoying it in general. They're five under eight.

in general. They're five under eight.

>> It's all they know. Yeah, it's all they know. So, they're they're doing great.

know. So, they're they're doing great.

We a lot of outside time. I would also just say in general for all of us on the call here too, I see some fish pictures there with Rob and other things. We all

work with our heads all day long >> and uh I would just encourage everybody whether it's you know uh fishing or outside time or whatever exercise working on a car who knows uh find something to do with your hands with

your body because that's what gives me balance. If I didn't have that I'd

balance. If I didn't have that I'd probably need at least three more therapists just to stay sane you know.

>> Well there's a lot of healing when you're outside for sure and that's God God's country so I'm I'm indeed as well.

Um, what time do you get home from work typically on most weekdays?

>> Yeah. Uh, you know, at Snowflake it's probably four or five PM. Yeah. Shut the

computer down.

>> Okay. So, you're doing it all. We're

going to get into how do you do it all.

So 12 12 of 13 years, five kids, and stopping work at four or five. Like, let's get into it. So, let's start with with

into it. So, let's start with with sales. I know you're leading sales teams

sales. I know you're leading sales teams now and I bet you get a a lot of people who are going to reach out and want to be on your team after this call, but why do you think sales is the best career in

the world, >> man? Uh, one, and you just can kind of

>> man? Uh, one, and you just can kind of do something different every day, right?

If you have a little bit of ADHD, which I definitely do, and you don't want to do the same thing every day, um, sales are the best because every day looks different. Mhm.

different. Mhm.

>> Uh, two is it's very much a, you know, what you put into it, you get out of it, which I love, right? Because it's like some I feel like there's other roles and I haven't I haven't been in every role, but I feel like there's other roles

where like you can be a super top performer and you're just not going to get the recognition or the compensation out of it that you put in.

>> And so I feel like there's a pretty good correlation at least from what you put in to what you get out. And so I'm competitive by nature and I I really like that. I have ADHD too as well. So I

like that. I have ADHD too as well. So I

I love that aspect of it and it's we have that more in common than >> than we about.

>> Yeah. So yeah, those I and then I think there's just a ton of um in sales too, you get to I mean you're the tip of the spear with customers and I don't know about you, but I even in a leadership

role I all I really want to do is talk to customers at the end of the day and um learning about their businesses, how they make money, you know, their their cultures, the problems they're solving,

that stuff keeps me uh intellectually curious and sharp every day. And so I I love that. I think the further up you

love that. I think the further up you go, you get farther away from the customer. And um I don't think that's

customer. And um I don't think that's bad. And I have also seen leaders who do

bad. And I have also seen leaders who do a really great job, no matter how high they are, staying tight with the customer. And I I'm committed to trying

customer. And I I'm committed to trying to stay tight with the customer no matter where I go.

>> Is that one of the reasons you love being like a frontline leader because you know the customers, you're out supporting the reps.

>> Totally. Yeah. I think, you know, if anyone's thinking about getting into leadership, that's definitely one of the benefits is you your your exposure is multiplied by however many reps you have, right? Eight eight account

have, right? Eight eight account executives. You get you get exposed to a

executives. You get you get exposed to a lot more um accounts, a lot more customers. Um and that's really fun.

customers. Um and that's really fun.

It's really fun to just see all the different business problems you can solve.

>> I love it. Well, let's talk about your success as an IC. you you had told me when you started um I'm not going to do quick math but if it's eight years and you're 35 so you're you're in your late

20s and you're you're making you know close to a million bucks crushing it I don't even know how that feel that young but you told me you're consulting you started in consulting working for a Salesforce implementation partner then

you got poached to be an AE you went straight to enterprise with no like software experience per se and went straight to like you know strategic selling I'm curious

um what selling and working for a consultancy translated to when you moved into software and and and why was that kind of the key for you being so successful

so quick early on without having to go to the route of like BDR SMB mid-market etc you know >> yeah it's funny I get calls from like BDRs or um you know SMBEES all the time

like what do I have to do to become an enterprise account executive and you know especially if they're highly performant and unfortunately with big companies like there's just a lot of red tape you have to climb through. You have

to do your time two years in SMB, two years in mid-market, two years in commercial, two years in whatever layers are in the company before you get to do that. And and that's just a big company

that. And and that's just a big company problem. One way to circumvent that is

problem. One way to circumvent that is to come in from the outside. So I

sometimes will tell them, "Yeah, I mean I love that you're working here, but you got to leave." Like if you have a high if if if you need to get outside the red tape, you got to you got to leave the

company. go find something that's

company. go find something that's tangential and then network your way back in at a higher level.

>> And so that's essentially what ended up happening to me is I started at a consulting firm. They trained me how to

consulting firm. They trained me how to be a consultant which is really simple honestly. It's identifying problems and

honestly. It's identifying problems and solving problems. That's it. And so and being tech agnostic which is huge because we all we're all here we're all here you know selling something. we're

all here selling some kind of tech or some kind of solution or some kind of outcome. But trying to be agnostic uh

outcome. But trying to be agnostic uh first and listening to the customer, I think has been a huge benefit in my career because I try to bring that mindset despite what I'm selling today.

I try to bring that mindset wherever I go. And if you're really good at it, the

go. And if you're really good at it, the tech company that you're selling or you're helping sell or helping implement will probably notice you and they're always growing and they're going to come and find you. And that's what happened to me is I had an AP tap me on the

shoulder after we sold a big deal and said, "You sold this deal better than my Salesforce account executive did. I'd

like you to come over to here." And I was 22. I was like I had no I had no

was 22. I was like I had no I had no idea what I was doing. You know, I major >> enterprise rep at Salesforce at 22.

>> Yep. I was major imposttor syndrome like big time. I had no I didn't think I

big time. I had no I didn't think I belonged. you know, everybody else

belonged. you know, everybody else around me, you know, they they were wearing ties and I'm not a tie person.

So, I was really Yeah, those first couple years I was very much I had to just prove that I belonged.

>> Did you skip college or did you work at magnet before while you were in college doing the consultancy?

>> I graduated a little early. Yep.

>> Overachiever, man.

>> Yeah.

>> I was doing the math. I'm like, how 20?

That's incredible. Um, okay. So, how did you sell as a consultant? What was your strategy? You're 22. you go in and

strategy? You're 22. you go in and become a top Salesforce AE probably half the age of most of the people there like how did you sell you know as a consultant what was your kind of approach

>> yeah listening first finding those problems um also not having an ego about having to go to the seuite right away there's a ton of value at the lower levels of an organization which is all I could call into because I didn't have

any credibility right >> and so getting the Salesforce logo on my LinkedIn or my business card helped a little bit with credibility getting in the door >> but even then like you know they took one look at me I didn't have any facial

hair at the time and they're like yeah you look like you're 12 why should I listen to you and so the way I was able to establish that credibility was by talking to everybody I mean I would I think you can always judge a really good

salesperson by the way with when you walk into a customer's front office right and you're checking in you're signing in on the books and if you can make great conversation and be really

kind and nice to that front desk lady and eventually she knows your name Right. And she and you just develop that

Right. And she and you just develop that rapport that I think it shows a humility and it also shows that you're just curious. It doesn't matter what level

curious. It doesn't matter what level you are. You just want to you just want

you are. You just want to you just want to learn about those people and their company.

>> When you come in at the lower level, something we're teaching right now, we're we're doing fundamentals of strategic selling. So, we're literally

strategic selling. So, we're literally talking about how to teach, you're familiar with challenger selling. We're

focused on how to teach some somebody, an executive ideally, something about their business that they didn't already know and then give them a compelling

reason to take action. So, why is it so valuable to speak to the lower levels and then what do you do with that information to surface it to execs that may not even know what's going on? How

do you use that to then get power to sponsor a more deeper uh I'd say opportunity like a formal opportunity?

Yeah, it's funny. I think internally like if you all think of your own companies right now, you probably wouldn't just go and reach out to your CIO or CEO just to like understand their

priorities or you know have a chat. And

yet we do that to our customers all the time. Hey, I want to I want to talk to

time. Hey, I want to I want to talk to the CIO. Hey, I want to talk to the CEO.

the CIO. Hey, I want to talk to the CEO.

We are like fearless when it comes to reaching out to another customer. Well,

if you kind of use that same mentality and turn that around, a lot of the people at the companies you're selling to are afraid to also go and talk to their own CEOs, right? So, you can help actually break that barrier. And what's

what I found really interesting is those CEOs or those CIOs, whatever, they actually want to hear from their employees, but they don't they always get it filtered. It's always filtered internally. There's probably layers of

internally. There's probably layers of politics going on there. And so when you can bring them an objective unfiltered version of what you're hearing from the

the the people a couple layers down suddenly maybe sometimes it sparks them and they're like wow I nobody's been telling me that because again they get the filter. Now you never want to do it

the filter. Now you never want to do it in a way where you're throwing people under the bus and I would avoid name dropping at all costs. Every once in a while you get into a sticky situation like well who told you that right? Um,

and in that case, I usually just try to say, well, I'm making some I'm making some assumptions here based on what I heard from, you know, a couple folks in this department, right? So, we try to be try to defend your your moles, so to

speak. But

speak. But >> from a from a tactical standpoint, just from a, >> you know, yeah, implementation, ideally, we want people to take your playbook and implement it because it works. Yeah.

>> Um, you find out there's all these problems or pain, you're talking to lower levels. Do you deliver that up as

lower levels. Do you deliver that up as a as a cold email to or a call?

>> Oh yeah, exact question. What's the

what's the delivery mechanism for reaching that executive with that information?

>> Yeah, it I think really clearly there's a path A which is preferable which is you have the people who you've developed as champions bring you to that executive. That should be your

executive. That should be your preference.

>> Sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes

they don't want to. Sometimes they're a gatekeeper and not a helper. And in that case, the kind of break glass option is to then go around them. You got to be really careful there. We've all had our

hands slapped doing that before. Um, but

yeah, path A is gen generally try to develop such a rapport where that person trusts you to and goes with you.

>> And what's your talk track as to why they need to bring in their boss to meet with you versus them trying to handle the problem on their own without involving their boss?

>> Yeah. Um, well, sometimes they do want to go without you. And in that case, uh, I would always make sure that they're armed with everything they need. And one

of the really simple tricks that I use is I build all my material or I encourage my account executives to build the material in their PowerPoint templates or their Google Slides templates because then they don't have to sit there and recreate those. They're

just taking what you built for them and bringing it up. It's not being filtered further. um when they are willing to uh

further. um when they are willing to uh let you be a part of it, then you know it's just making sure you have the right prep. Maybe that's part of an executive

prep. Maybe that's part of an executive briefing that you're doing. You can

build a an event around it or a dinner around it or something like that. That's

usually where it works best.

>> Makes sense. So, you're um you you said well I actually want to go back a little bit. You said you stopped working at

bit. You said you stopped working at four or five most days. How do you think of like where to spend your time and and specifically for for sellers in the room and when you were selling what you coach your team because there's so many

there's so much noise coming of do this do that and don't do this don't do that and you know it can be overwhelming like how do you how did you think about your time as a seller and how do you teach

and coach your team of where to spend and prioritize their time?

>> Yeah, I will say first of all I I usually start work around seven or eight. Um, that's just I'm way sharper

eight. Um, that's just I'm way sharper in the morning and I get pretty like bogged down anytime after two. You know,

after two I'm my my mind's just kind of slogging along. Um, so I'm definitely

slogging along. Um, so I'm definitely sharper in the morning, which is why I prioritize those hours. But I think, you know, it's really simple. I tell my team this, too. It's number one, you want to

this, too. It's number one, you want to be spending most of your time with your customers. That's your number one

customers. That's your number one priority. Number two is spending time

priority. Number two is spending time with your internal team preparing for your customers, preparing for that next meeting, preparing for that next demo, preparing for whatever it is. And then

three, and it's more like way down the list, three is the internal admin stuff, updating your forecast, getting stuff into Salesforce, whatever it is you have to do, you know, answering those emails.

Also, email is a total trap. Um, this is going to go public, so I'm I guess I'll just have to I hate email. I I

personally loathe email. It's a total time waster. It doesn't get prioritized

time waster. It doesn't get prioritized well. Um Slack is slightly better.

well. Um Slack is slightly better.

Slightly better. I operate a lot by text, which it it's it's helpful. And

unfortunately, email too, I've I've had to adopt this mentality of unless they email me twice, it's probably not very important. And you'd be shocked at how

important. And you'd be shocked at how many people never email me twice.

>> Well, they'll figure it out on their own after the first one. That's the goes away.

>> Exactly. So, uh, I would try to stay away from email if at all possible. Find

other means of communication and collaboration with your team.

>> So, what do you you've been, I guess, six six yearsish in in leadership, six or seven years. What do what are you seeing

seven years. What do what are you seeing as like the top qualities, top traits of like the highest performing AES, if you had to, you know, you don't necessarily recreate yourself. I know one of the

recreate yourself. I know one of the biggest challenges in leadership is like people aren't you and they don't necessarily work as hard or they may not Yeah. the same skill set or, you know,

Yeah. the same skill set or, you know, curiosity or EQ, but you've developed a lot of really really, you know, solid reps and, you know, and and and had the equally impressive track record as a

leader. And I'm curious kind of what

leader. And I'm curious kind of what what are some of the traits you look for um when you hire people and what are some of the traits that you you see as most common to the highest level, you

know, top top five% of reps that you've you've coached and led?

>> Yeah.

Um, I think motor, you know, like in intrinsic motivation is probably a better way to say it. Like everyone

says, "Oh, I want someone with a high motor." That's great. But are they like

motor." That's great. But are they like intrinsically motivated? Like they will

intrinsically motivated? Like they will pick themselves up and go without having to be reminded.

>> Uh, that's something that's kind of non-teable. You can't teach that.

non-teable. You can't teach that.

Someone either has it or they don't. So

I look for that intrinsic motivation.

Um, uh, I do look for that intellectual curiosity. I would also break the

curiosity. I would also break the question into two parts because I do believe that there's a big difference between someone who's a really good hunter seller and someone who's a really

good farmer seller, right? And and

that's something I've had to learn about myself, too. Like I've done both. I've

myself, too. Like I've done both. I've

hunted and I've farmed. Uh but they're very different motions. I mean, you got to put in six times the effort when you're hunting a new logo versus necessarily farming for the same dollar,

right? And so we look I look I look

right? And so we look I look I look specifically at the patch I'm I'm hiring for and I try to make sure I'm I'm typ casting the right person. Someone who's

maybe comes from a consulting background or a customer success background much more of a farmer, right? Someone who has had great success in SMB or mid-market sales,

maybe has deep training as a BDR or SDR and they they have, you know, they want to go earn the big bucks, high risk, high reward. Probably much better as a

high reward. Probably much better as a hunter. Awesome.

hunter. Awesome.

Any anything that you would say makes you so effective in your career as far as you mentioned curiosity, but anything that you think um

>> what's your superpower?

>> Oh, I yeah, I don't you know, I thought about this a lot. I think one of them and leadership in particular, I have a really good eye for talent. I'm really

proud um of the teams that I've built over the last six years as a leader. you

know, some of the top performing teams. Um, you know, some people that I've had the opportunity to help serve have turned into the number one or number two account executive in the world

>> for uh Salesforce. Some have been to chairman's club multiple there. Some

they far superseded my uh um accomplishments and that is that is really really cool. So I I will say there's the other side of that coin and I'll be honest about this. I've made

some bad picks too. And not only have I made bad picks, but I'm a big believer in second chances and lots of grace. And

I do I do tend to hang on to people probably too long. [snorts] And and I get in trouble. I get in trouble for that every once in a while. I hang on to people a little bit too long. I give

them, you know, instead of the six months to make improvements after being very open, I give them 12 months, >> which is just too long. So that's

something I'm trying to get better at.

And I do believe like everyone's going to come with deficiencies. I still have deficiencies. my job is to uh help fill

deficiencies. my job is to uh help fill those deficiencies. Help and ideally

those deficiencies. Help and ideally help the account executive fill those deficiencies. So that's something I'm

deficiencies. So that's something I'm I'm getting better at. But yeah, I think my se secret to success is a really good eye for talent.

>> It's kind of like you can just sense it.

Read past the BS and see if like people are are real when you hire them.

>> I try to every once in a while I get tricked for sure. Yep. For sure.

>> Dig deep. uh my um you mentioned out outcomebased selling as your approach to consultative sales and that's helped you to be successful and you teach it to

your team now. Can you describe to everyone what outcomebased selling is and how how it works?

>> Yeah, this is I mean we've all you mentioned challenger sales. I think we all read that book 10 years ago.

Solution selling, right? Um, outcome

based selling is just the next evolution of that. It's instead of just getting to

of that. It's instead of just getting to the solution or helping the customer realize that they have a problem maybe they they didn't know and that you have the solution. It's going the next level

the solution. It's going the next level and following that solution through implementation into result and having a

repeatable road map or process or next step or next use case whatever it is that you just continue to rinse and repeat that cycle.

>> So I think so often and I'm totally guilty of this. We sell something, we celebrate that commission check and then we move on.

the best sellers, they celebrate the commission check, but they're in the customer's uh lobby the next day after that signature and they're there to drive implementation and consumption and

whatever it is that you're selling, they're there to make sure that it actually works after the fact because then once they show that it works and they're able to capture that ROI objectively,

they get the next project and the next deal and the next use case. So that is outcomebased selling. much less of a uh

outcomebased selling. much less of a uh snap a snap a line in a point of time and much more of a repeated cycle going you know over many many years and I

believe you know if you do it really well you'll have good good individual years you know you'll probably do 100 150 200% of your um quota if you do it

well but then what it also sets you up for is those banner years those years that happen one in three years where you're doing 600% of your number because what you've built is a scaffolding

of success that the customer now trusts you to go and do that again.

>> Sometimes the company doesn't allow that because I know there's always a lot of account movement and people get moved around a lot. So that can definitely be frustrating. I know I was frustrated

frustrating. I know I was frustrated with that. But as best you can

with that. But as best you can >> as best you can try to stick with the same accounts for more than two years.

Two years is in my mind a pretty good tour of duty on accounts.

>> It makes sense. And in that first year, you're building trust and you're fixing, especially if it's a current account, you're probably fixing, you know, all the crap that they inherited or all the shelfware or the customer issues that

they had, you know, so you build trust by >> by that. Um, your

>> your proposals kind of speak to outcomebased selling. And when I said,

outcomebased selling. And when I said, you know, what do you do really well?

You're like, I build great decks. Can

you can you talk about >> Yeah. how to translate outcomebased

>> Yeah. how to translate outcomebased selling into a story or a presentation that can show them that there's a road map, there's a future, that it's not just, you know, here's the price and

here's the ROI. What is that? What does

your deck entail?

>> Yeah. Well, first of all, if anyone has an AI tool that can build great decks, please let me know because I've been searching and I need one. Um, I'm still kind of old.

>> I can tell you slide one, slide two, slide three in chat and you can build it yourself, >> right? [laughter] I know, but we're also

>> right? [laughter] I know, but we're also so often having to communicate highly complex features, functions, products, solutions, whatever it is you're selling

into into into a customer who may not even know what you're talking about, right? And so the more you can visualize

right? And so the more you can visualize that, I've found is really really impactful using simple visuals for customers. And like it or not, slides

customers. And like it or not, slides are probably not going away. uh if you come from maybe more of the Amazon ilk, you know, it's the it's the um Amazon briefing, like the six-page briefing or

whatever it is. I think in either case, you know, those are really really uh powerful.

Uh as I mentioned before, one of the things that's just a super simple hack is building the content and the customers template. You can ask them for

customers template. You can ask them for their template, they're not going to give it to you. Just go scrape their website for it, right? And build it on build a deck that reflects that. nine

times out of ten they're very thankful because you just saved them a ton of work from taking the stuff from your slides putting it into their internal slides and they'll just take it which is

great. Um the other thing is uh I'm a

great. Um the other thing is uh I'm a big believer in starting with the numbers up front because that's really what the executives want to see right if if it's a proposal start with the

numbers first and then justify why you're proposing what you're proposing.

If you're not at the proposal yet, come with that ROI point of view or the net present value point of view and then justify why you think that that's the ROI or the net present value and don't

use standard, you know, KPIs that you have. Like get really detailed as to why

have. Like get really detailed as to why that specific one is good for them. Show

them that you it's like a show your work moment. Show that you know their

moment. Show that you know their business moment. And so um numbers

business moment. And so um numbers upfront, >> show your work.

>> What about the roadmap piece?

Yeah, that comes later. You know, when you are embedded and you really know your customer, um that road map is money. I mean, that gives you your

money. I mean, that gives you your pipeline for the next two years, you know. And if you can get onto a road

know. And if you can get onto a road mapping cadence, because it's not a one-time thing, it's really a cadence, that's when that's when those money years really start to flow because you can start to make sure that the customer

is being held accountable to what they said they're going to do. you can make sure that you're held accountable to what you're said you're going to do in your organization and internally, you know, if you've signed up to do things

for a customer and maybe everyone has a little bit of account add. Oh, what's

the new hotness over here? I heard

Coca-Cola is buying and so suddenly you feel like your accounts which may not be as flashy as Coca-Cola. Maybe it's a Birkshshire Hathway home services company. Um, you can make sure that

company. Um, you can make sure that those accounts still get the attention they need because you've got this pre-established roadmap. And so

pre-established roadmap. And so >> is a is a road mapap a technology roadmap or is it a a a key outcome roadmap of what the results are that

they were were originally projecting in the proposal?

>> Yeah, usually I don't put it in like uh technology terms. It's usually what their it's usually their language. It's

their use cases is probably the easiest way to say it. What is it that they're solving? What's the problem that they're

solving? What's the problem that they're solving? you know, and maybe it's a

solving? you know, and maybe it's a technical problem, maybe it's a business problem, maybe it's something, but that's that's what we're getting to. And

then to your point, Ian, once we get into it, it becomes the out the outcomes of, hey, look what we just did. We just

did this and we saved you 10 million bucks. Now, let's go to the next one.

bucks. Now, let's go to the next one.

>> Yeah, makes sense. So, tell me um from a leadership standpoint, you're training the teams. I know your philosophy.

Actually, first off, before we get there, why did you go into leadership?

because we have a lot of like sellers in this community. It's probably 99%

this community. It's probably 99% individual contributors and a lot of them are like should I go into leadership? Should I not? Like tell me

leadership? Should I not? Like tell me what drove you to go into leadership when you were making great money and had autonomy of time and >> yeah like why did you make that

decision?

>> Um yeah, I was pretty resistant to it at first. I was I was uh kind of coached

first. I was I was uh kind of coached into it uh by a leader and I decided to take the leap and you know there's not a day that goes by that I don't uh my head doesn't turn and think about the IC role

because it is it is the best role honestly it is the best role you have autonomy of calendar you know if you if you have that intrinsic motivation you can get up and the the outputs will

hopefully match the inputs there's a ton of and I I still I struggle with this today when I get deep into a deal I I want to take over and I have to stop myself obviously.

>> You see their commission check too. It's

[laughter] like, >> yeah, [clears throat] my first year that one hurt the most because I I'm I where I would have stayed, I would have made um a seven figure had another seven

figure year and I I didn't stay, I moved and the person who backfilled me who was on my team had a seven figure year and I was you just have to kind of die to yourself a little bit, you know? You

just there's kind of like becoming a parent or getting married like there's just a part of you that you have to die to and just say it's not it's not for me anymore, it's for them. So that's like

when I got baptized, I died to my >> That's right. You're drowning dying to your IC self. That's

>> drowning in the sorrow of your lost missions. Raised raised in life to help

missions. Raised raised in life to help others succeed. Yes, exactly.

others succeed. Yes, exactly.

>> So, how do you do it? So, you're you're you know what to do, but how do you develop I know you're well, tell people your philosophy on what you want to accomplish as a leader every year. I

thought that was pretty cool.

>> Yeah, I I borrowed this from um some of my leaders, but I love this. It's every

year I want someone on my team to get promoted or to pay off their house. And

so, you know, if you're an IC who just wants to be a great IC, great. Let's go

make a million bucks and pay off your house. Um, if you're an IC who wants to

house. Um, if you're an IC who wants to get promoted, great. Let's also make a million bucks and then get promoted. You

know, ideally both.

>> What if they have a two and a half% uh >> Yeah. By the way, financially speaking,

>> Yeah. By the way, financially speaking, that's a terrible idea. Don't pay off your house. Hold on to that.

your house. Hold on to that.

>> Yeah. Totally. No. put it in the market.

But you know what I mean that. So I I I I really shoot for that every year.

Someone pay off their house, someone um someone get promoted. And by the way, promotion into a sales leadership role is not the only path.

>> There's promotion into a global account management role, a strategic account executive role. Like there's it doesn't

executive role. Like there's it doesn't just have to be you go run a team within the current or you're in. You could also go sideways and become a team leader for a younger a younger generation of

sellers who uh needs to learn what how enterprise functions and how they do things. So there's all sorts of

things. So there's all sorts of different paths. It doesn't just need to

different paths. It doesn't just need to be straight up. Um

>> cool. So how do you do that? What what

are the skills you're teaching them to get them promoted and to get them to pay off their house?

>> Yeah, the promotion one is like the performance is just the baseline. You

gota almost like that's a that's a a mustave. You got to have that park that.

mustave. You got to have that park that.

The next thing is just um are they the ones who are coaching other other newbies? When people come into the

other newbies? When people come into the company, are they the first ones to say, "Hey, can I be your onboarding buddy?

Can I teach you X, Y, and Z? Can I help you?" Uh because that's really what

you?" Uh because that's really what management is is you're just a servant leader at the end of the day. And so

those are the people who um get promoted really quickly are the people who are um always volunteering to help others. The

other thing is you know if you have developed uh a specialty around something you're really good at building proposals you're really good at doing uh complex ROI models you're really good at

you know using a certain AI tool to develop something like taking that not hoarding it and sharing it out and actually enabling other people. So, if

you can get a speaking spot at like your sales kickoff, that's always a really good indicator that you're on the right path.

>> The last thing is every one of your companies has a boot camp for new hires.

Go volunteer to be a coach at that boot camp, >> right? Go volunteer to spend a week of

>> right? Go volunteer to spend a week of your time flying out to HQ and teaching people who come in.

>> Love it, man. Um, we we're going to open this up in a few minutes, maybe in five minutes. I have a couple more questions

minutes. I have a couple more questions I want to dive into, but everyone grab your questions. Mike Mike's a rockstar.

your questions. Mike Mike's a rockstar.

Let's put him to to good use right now.

Um my my last couple questions. Um

number one, you said the biggest shift in technology right now is a shift from seatbased to consumptionbased uh you know um pricing model. Can you

talk a little bit more about that? And I

know AWS and Snowflake and you know the the consumption companies have that model but it looks like Salesforce is moving that way and other companies.

Just give us a little context of that.

That's part one of the question. And

part two, how do sellers need to approach things a little differently than from the seatbased model to be effective in this in this transition?

>> Yeah. And and I think I can say this uh uh pretty confidently. In our collective lifetime, there's only really been four revenue models. There of course was on

revenue models. There of course was on prem then there was cloud and cloud has now come in many flavors. Cloud was

seatbased really at first you know per user per month in in a application mode and then and then um we have consumption which is what snowflake AWS was the

first to lead this in terms of the the model and now we have outcomebased uh models which some AI companies are starting to utilize. That's interesting

to me. I I frankly hope we move there.

We're not there yet at Snowflake and a lot of people are still having a hard time transitioning from seatbased to consumptionbased. But the number one,

consumptionbased. But the number one, two, and three reasons I left Salesforce and I came to Snowflake was because of the consumption model because it's a

much closer alignment to the value a customer is receiving >> and your commission check. I got really really tired at Salesforce of arguing with CFOs as to how how much shelfware

they had and why they were paying for it. That was hard. That was really hard,

it. That was hard. That was really hard, you know, and we had good reasons. We I

mean we came up with all sorts of great reasons, but it just started to wear on me for a while.

>> Little swap there.

>> I got really good at swaps. I was like I was a financial engineer at the end of the day. I ended up financially

the day. I ended up financially engineering a lot of things and I didn't feel good about it in the end. I really

didn't. And so, um, I'm a huge believer in the consumption model. And if you're not familiar, it's the utility meter on the side of your house. Same thing,

right? You you you you pay for what you um use and then if you want to commit to a a certain amount you expect to use, you can get a discount. Essentially,

that's what it is. Um, so I'm I'm a huge fan and I've seen customers just love it. Sometimes they don't love it when

it. Sometimes they don't love it when they leave the lights on for a weekend and there there's definitely issues there. So, I'm not saying it's all hunky

there. So, I'm not saying it's all hunky dory. Um, but by and large it's a much

dory. Um, but by and large it's a much better model for actually charging the customer for what they're using and what value they're receiving.

>> Makes sense. And how do reps shift how they sell to that model if they came from seatbased?

>> Yeah. Especially in the farming rep model, you are a customer success manager. What was traditionally called a

manager. What was traditionally called a customer success manager, your job is not to go and um try to get a giant contract signed, although that is definitely the outcome at the end of the

day. your job is to go sell the next use

day. your job is to go sell the next use case, go sell the next uh function that isn't using your product or or solution.

Um it's and just making sure that they're having success with what they're using because every time they burn that credit or that piece of consumption, you're getting a commission check. And

that actually feels really good because if you've sold in a seatbased capacity before, I think we've all been there where you get a list of accounts and sometimes they're not great and they've been oversold and you don't get paid a

dime to get them healthy.

>> You don't get paid a dime to get them healthy. You only get paid when you get

healthy. You only get paid when you get them healthy and then go get the next big growth contract, which is really difficult and sometimes it's not realistic. It's interesting because when

realistic. It's interesting because when I was at Salesforce, my first motion was go to the customer and see what functions they're using and what they're not using >> and make sure they're using all the capabilities that they had, right? I'd

look at all the objects, the cases and quotes and and that naturally led to trust with the customer because we're not going and trying to sell them. We're

trying to maximize the value. And the

second that discovery that I would always do with current customers is what are you doing outside of Salesforce that you could be using in Salesforce? So I'd

look at all the ancillary applications.

How are they quoting? What are they doing for their analytics? Are they

using anytime type of cadence tool? And

I would sure enough find, you know, some some other thing that they were doing with with Oracle or with um you know, another CPQ tool or uh Sales Loft and

and I would just say, why don't you just put this in one place? And and those it would turn a SalesCloud deal that would be hundred a month into $350 a month with every app around it retired. and it

was the most effective playbook. And

it's kind of the same thing whether it's seat seat based or consumption. It's all

about making sure they're successful with they what they own and utilizing all the capabilities even if it is a module add-on that is a part of salescloud that's not necessarily part

of their contract to begin with. They

still want to use it better. So that

that motion lines up big time. Um and it feels good. It feels good to help the

feels good. It feels good to help the customer get value out of what they bought. So um

bought. So um >> builds a ton of trust.

>> Absolutely. and it works and for people in the program check out territory management account planning and walk through how to do that in detail. Um,

last question is personal one. I I'm I was really happy to hear when you said you got sober three years ago and we talked a little bit about the culture of of sales and partying and drinking and

whatnot. I'm just curious what made you

whatnot. I'm just curious what made you decide to get sober at 32 years old and maybe you can touch upon how it's been afterwards in in that, you know, sales culture in that environment where

drinking is is so common or, you know, partying.

>> Yeah.

>> Pick your poison.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I've never really talked about this outside of, you know, my close-knit uh friends and colleagues and family, but um happy to do it if it

helps someone else. uh over gosh probably a period of about 5 years I developed a pretty serious drinking problem and it's kind of like a frog being boiled in water like it it didn't

like it happened overnight it wasn't like I really realized what was going on it took me a long time to kind of figure out that I had a problem and um luckily at the time there was an organization

within Salesforce called Soberforce uh and in fact one of the founders of soberforce has started her own consultancy >> I know her And I was in that founding group, the first meeting when they when

they y they launched it. I was there. So

>> Yep. And so um I I really I you know I think it always started for me it started with like sober curious like what would it be like to not drink you

know and I'd go on um on uh uh two three four weeks of not drinking to see how it felt and and then I'd always end up going back because it'd be like oh it's easier to drink or I'm you know I'd kind

of tell myself all these lies. There was

a lot of lies I was believing in my own head. I think one of the easiest ones

head. I think one of the easiest ones for anybody in sales to believe is I'm more fun or I'm better at talking to customers and being uh outgoing when I'm when I'm drinking, right? So, I want to

drink at a customer event. I want to have and and that is a lie. You are fun without alcohol. Uh in fact, you can

without alcohol. Uh in fact, you can outlast anybody who's at that table who is drinking and still be fun and wake up the next morning, even if you're up till 3 in the morning. wake up the next

morning knowing that one you probably didn't say or do anything inappropriate uh and remember everything the night before. So where it really came to a

before. So where it really came to a head >> not feel horrible and shitty >> and not feel horrible and shitty. Yeah.

And so you know I had months probably close to a year of kind of sober curious uh journey and I got close to the people who had started sober force and heard their stories and I benefited from that

big time. Um, another person who started

big time. Um, another person who started that was Andrew Cenbader, uh, who I worked for and he was he was instrumental in kind of telling his own story and how it improved. But I'll just

give a really anecdotal example. When my

um when my uh fourth daughter was born, uh, I had a 90-day paternity leave and I that's when I planted my flag and I said, "I'm not going to drink anymore."

I went on 90 days of PAT leave. I lost

30 pounds. I've slept better than I've ever slept and I got my brain back. I

didn't realize how far I had slipped and my mental acuity came back. And so just for health reasons alone, for me, it made a huge a huge difference. And

there's definitely days where I'm like, man, it would be really nice to have a drink today cuz I'm stressed out. Well,

it turns out that's just another lie. It

at least for me, alcohol actually didn't do anything for the stress. it might

have relieved it momentarily, but it only caused more in the long term. And

so, um, just kind of rewiring my brain, uh, to to get rid of those lies around alcohol was the hardest part. And that

took in earnestness, it's still going on, but it it really the hard work really took three to six months in the beginning. You know, Ian, you've been

beginning. You know, Ian, you've been you kind of been through the process yourself as well.

>> I have been in 12step in five and a half years. So, it's uh,

years. So, it's uh, >> congrats, man. That's awesome. call it

rationalize, which means rational lies.

You rationalize it, but they're lies still. And and I just I think it's great

still. And and I just I think it's great to celebrate that. And I say for anyone, like no judgment. People can drink, people can smoke weed, people can watch porn, do whatever you want. But is what you're doing serving the best version of

you? Is it helping you get closer to

you? Is it helping you get closer to your goals or further away? Is it

helping you get closer to the people you love or further away? And the answer is a 100% of the time, right, if you have big goals is it's not going to help you get to your goals faster to have these vices or addictions. So if you really

have health goals or financial goals or family goals, right, is it serving you?

Be honest with yourself. And if you can say yes, it is, by all means, keep doing it. But for most of us, it's it's a it's

it. But for most of us, it's it's a it's a big fat no. And that that that's the reason. It's more of, you know, wanting

reason. It's more of, you know, wanting to wanting to go bigger with family and and and in your career. It's just not necessarily contributing to that. I know

it wasn't for me. So, thank you.

>> Now, my caffeine addiction on the other hand, full still into that one.

>> Afternoon delight, baby. That's what I had before I got [laughter] got here.

Great.

>> All right. Well, we we have about 10 minutes. Sorry, I hijacked Mike, but I I

minutes. Sorry, I hijacked Mike, but I I just uh love these conversations. Um I'd

love to just open it up to the group.

Ask him anything. Let's start with uh Joel Smith. Joel, and then we'll take uh

Joel Smith. Joel, and then we'll take uh Daniel. Um go ahead, my man.

Daniel. Um go ahead, my man.

>> Hey, Mike. I appreciate you taking your time to do this. Um, one of the things that you talked about is becoming an enterprise seller at 22 years old.

That's pretty freaking crazy. Um, I'm

also 22. You talked about having a feeling of not belonging when you're in conversations and with rooms with, you know, senior leadership or just things like that. How did you get over that

like that. How did you get over that sense of not belonging? And then I had a second question, but I'll be not greedy.

>> Yeah.

>> Someone else.

>> Yeah, that great question. that

imposttor syndrome uh is real. Uh I

think if anything it it like drove me to just be hyperprepared for everything. Um

and to know more as best I could know more than anybody in the room. Not in a not in a I'm going to step on everyone's toes and tell everybody that I'm better than you and I know more, but in a like

demonstrating that you know more about the customer or about the solution. So I

honestly what it really turned into for me was just I would just prepare the out of everything I was doing even if it was like a intro call, you know? I

was just I was try to be as hyperp prepared and I'd also try to make sure my team was highly prepared as well. Um

but yeah, that doesn't go away soon, Joel. Like it'll stick with you for a

Joel. Like it'll stick with you for a while. And I honestly still have days

while. And I honestly still have days like that now. You know, I'm I'm I'm I actually turned 35 on Christmas here coming up in a couple weeks. So, I'm 34 and I still get that sometimes where I'm

like, man, what am I doing? Who should

trust me? Why would they trust me? You

know, and you kind of have to, you know, psych yourself up and and remind yourself of some truths like, well, they should trust me because I've been doing this for a while or that I'm really well researched or that, you know, I'm going

to go work harder than anybody else.

>> Ian, you're on mute.

>> I trust you because of the mustache. It

it it builds [laughter] trust. It's the

>> This was a strategic move. It was too late.

>> I wouldn't trust the thing you said because you still look 22, but that >> Daniel, >> hi Mike. Uh, thanks for taking the time.

My question is more on the consumptionbased model. I I notice

consumptionbased model. I I notice you're leading the healthcare division at Snowflake and healthcare companies are very budget sensitive and they want

certainty on how much money are they going to invest. I sell into insurance.

I feel they have the same budget uh awareness that they don't want to know.

They want to know how much they're going to pay. How do you handle those

to pay. How do you handle those conversations? Tell them that

conversations? Tell them that consumption base is better than actually a fixed price.

>> Yeah, great question. Um and I do run into that still where some CFOs were like, well, I'd rather have, you know, like a certainty, right? I'd rather like pay for it up front even if it turns into shelfware because then I don't need

to you know go back to the bank later and get more when my team over consumes.

So that's definitely one of the downsides of the consumption model. The

answer is we monitor it daily like we are looking at it every single day and it's very simple. It's back to high school uh algebra slope of the line. If

the slope of the line is going to go over what they are expecting to spend, you call them right away and say, "Did you mean to do that? Do you are you starting a new use case? Should we be aware of that? Should we pull back?

Should we be really careful?" Nine times out of 10, that transparency actually develops a lot of trust and they can go, "Oops, I left I turned the lights on."

Or they can go, "Uh, actually, yeah, I did mean to do that cuz I'm testing out this new feature and I want to see if it works and maybe, you know, can I get some free credits to test this out?" And

that's where we have lots of different mechanisms to help them maybe test something out without blowing their budget or we can invest in PC's with uh system integrators or all sorts of different options there. But yeah, it's

definitely something you got to be careful for because CFOs can be a little and I will I would bucket it under um Finn ops is what they call it, financial operations. And I will say in the last

operations. And I will say in the last two years since I've been at Snowflake, customers in general and healthcare in particular have gotten much better about kind of expecting some fluidity in how

consumption spend goes.

>> Thanks, Mike.

>> Good question.

>> We got uh Cole next. Go ahead, Cole.

>> Yeah. Hey, Mike. Thanks for doing this.

Um yeah, I guess my question is around you mentioned earlier um talking to lower level employees before surfacing your findings up to executives. Um kind

of curious cuz I'm at Salesforce now and running into a a you know positioning a certain you know use case or a certain problem surfacing that to an executive and they're like um that's not a priority. We don't have budget for that

priority. We don't have budget for that right now. And then I'm kind of

right now. And then I'm kind of pigeonholed into one sort of um you know solution or use case. So curious if that's ever happened to you and kind of how you get remove yourself from being

pigeon holed into one solution.

>> Yeah. Can I ask are you um are you aligned to an individual cloud? I think

they used to call them clouds or are you a core AE where you sell everything?

>> I'm core. Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. Um

that has happened to me many many many times. Absolutely. Uh, and the

times. Absolutely. Uh, and the unfortunate truth is you just got to continue to find uh a reason for that executive to take that meeting with you.

And again, option A is always to try to find someone who they trust on their team who you can develop a good rapport with or find a problem that they're trying to solve and develop that rapport first and then have them bring you.

Sometimes those people turn into gatekeepers and um hopefully that's not the case. Hopefully, they trust you

the case. Hopefully, they trust you enough to know that that you're not there to try to um denigrate them in any way, but you're actually there to try to get them promoted and recognized and

successful. But it takes it does it does

successful. But it takes it does it does take uh a lot of work to do that upfront upfront work. And something I know

upfront work. And something I know you're probably living through right now, Cole, is it doesn't always feel like you have enough time to put that groundwork in because you have end of quarter, you have end of year. It's go

for growth right now, right? whatever it

is you're experiencing, I I know the feeling. And um I would just encourage

feeling. And um I would just encourage you to remember that even though you're in Q4 at Salesforce, which is legendary and how much of a pressure cooker it is,

try to remember you're going to probably work three to five different places in your career, maybe more. And your

reputation matters more than anything.

So be very, very thoughtful about what you how you operate with your customers because they will remember you. They

will remember you. Don't let the pressure get to you as best you can. And

I know it's hard, right? Cuz you got a RVP is probably breathing down your neck. You've got pipeline targets that

neck. You've got pipeline targets that seem uh insurmountable, but as best you can, try to stay stay true to your own integrity.

And remember, Cole, you're a core rep.

Your job is to sell across the organization sales service marketing IT, operations, finance, right? So,

you're doing your job by seeing where and how you can help the organization.

If someone's pigeon holing you to one area, you can't do your job. So, you got to get creative. But, you know, I depending on what segment you're in, I would have five 10 opportunities in the same account. They didn't even talk to

same account. They didn't even talk to each other. So, just remember how big

each other. So, just remember how big these accounts are and how silent they are and and don't don't necessarily sometimes if someone's really blocking you from doing your job, you you have to do what you need to do to make the customer successful because they're

doing a disservice to their own company if they're keeping you from areas that you can help, especially if they don't have responsibility for those areas. So

um just remember that you know you want to have at least five active contacts in each account across the seauite across VPs and across departments. That's my

role rule of five. So anyway um good stuff. Let's take uh Michelle next. Go

stuff. Let's take uh Michelle next. Go

ahead Michelle.

>> Yeah. Hey Mike. Um thanks for doing this. I had a question about like some

this. I had a question about like some of the things that you do to take care of yourself on a daily basis. So, like I really resonate with you saying like go work out or like do something with your

hands and I would love to be the person that is not in front of a screen, but sometimes I'm definitely the person that just relaxes and watches TV. Um, so you

have five kids, so you may probably have less time than somebody like myself who doesn't have kids yet, but I'm just a little bit curious to hear more about like what you do on a daily basis. What

are kind of like your bare minimums to take care of yourself to like balance some of the stress that can come with um sales inevitably? Whether that's like a

sales inevitably? Whether that's like a morning routine or I don't know if you're spiritual at all.

>> Just curious to hear a little bit more about that.

>> Yeah, I I'm a big fan of the uh the walk it off like go for a walk kind of thing.

when I get stressed out uh after a meeting or you know I've got something stressful coming up or I've got a big pitch or an issue with an account executive um sometimes instead of

reacting which I'm still guilty of I will just go for a walk 10 15 minutes and that really helps me kind of get my head clear. Another thing that's a good

head clear. Another thing that's a good practice that I was taught early in my career was if you have a hard message to deliver, draft it and then sit on it for a night and then look at again in the

morning. And so often you'll be like,

morning. And so often you'll be like, "Wow, I was completely out of line. Who

was this that wrote that?" And you'll have a much clearer uh picture of it. Um

in terms of dailies, yeah, I I am up and moving as much as I can. Um, also like Zoom is great and I definitely face to face is great, but if you can get your customers or your team members,

especially internal, you don't always need to be fa walk around your house or your apartment or your room. Like I walk and talk constantly. I've got a I bet I've got a trail in on my carpet here in

my office just walking around my desk.

So, just, you know, get moving somehow.

Um, and even though we're screen free, I'll be completely honest, still fall into that YouTube or Tik Tok trap every once in a while. And that's a just ongoing battle. You know, I have to set

ongoing battle. You know, I have to set my own limits there, too.

>> Amen. Walk it off. Um Mike, I want to be mindful of your time. Do you have a hard stop or do we have time for one last question?

>> We got time for one more. Yep.

>> Okay, cool. Let's take uh Nick Spith.

Let's go ahead. Uh Nick, you're on the air.

>> Yeah. Uh hi, Mike. Um, I'm just kind of curious as to how you deal with like the um like kind of staying authentic like to yourself and like in your sales

process when there's like uh like that kind of like end of quarter like you know like uh do you uh like how do you kind of grapple with like whether to let

something slide or you know to kind of pressure like a customer into you know making a decision? Yeah, man. I feel

like I've had to learn this lesson over and over so many times, and I'm going to continue to have to learn this lesson because it the pressure still gets to me sometimes. And I think there's a

sometimes. And I think there's a difference between respectfully giving the customer options and pressuring them, right? I think you

can very clearly go to a customer and say, "Hey, these are your options. You

can do nothing. You can do what you've done before. You can do this growth

done before. You can do this growth thing." And basically, here are all the

thing." And basically, here are all the puts and takes. I'm going to try to do my best not to pressure you. I'll also

be very honest with you and telling you that I'm incentivized to try to get you to choose this one. I'm just going to put it out there and and I'm going to do my best to advocate for you internally

so that I can get the best terms for that deal because if my company's doing their job, they're going to make that look as good as it can. And that's my job, too. And so kind of just being

job, too. And so kind of just being blunt and honest with the customers like I'm incentivized to try to go get this.

At the same time, no harm, no foul if you don't do it. I'll also say sometimes it's it's uncomfortable and you just got

to lean into those with humility and um a good apology to open the meeting always helps. Like I'm really sorry. I

always helps. Like I'm really sorry. I

know you probably didn't want to hear from me again. You guys, you know, like it's okay. It's okay to just apologize

it's okay. It's okay to just apologize upfront and to explain to them that you just want to give them one more opportunity to look at this and that you've tried to make it look as good as possible. So, uh

it is difficult though and I've definitely succumbed to the pressure at end of quarter where I've done things that I've regretted with customers, sent emails, gone around people that I probably shouldn't have and every single

time it's like, you know, the first of the next month I'm just sitting there going, "Oh, I shouldn't have done that."

And I I'll I I would say don't run away from the shame. Uh lean into it and go to that person and apologize to them.

I've had to apologize to a lot of customers for being caught in that pressure that pressure chamber.

>> I did you ever see Dallas in action, Mike?

>> Yeah. In fact, I was always trying to work for Dallas and I got to for one year.

>> Oh, so you work directly for him. You

see in front of those customers delivering. He would use this line. It's

delivering. He would use this line. It's

like if it's unnatural, then we don't want to present it. But if it's something that is feasible, we have some very, you know, great incentives for you. If the timing aligns on your end,

you. If the timing aligns on your end, do you want to see them? Yeah. He so

smooth and it was like, oh, he did it with this draw and slow pace. And

>> y >> in negotiations, I will frequently say something similar, something to the effect of, um, we probably don't have a deal until we're both equally uncomfortable. Once we're equally

uncomfortable. Once we're equally uncomfortable, then we probably have found our middle ground here. And so

just, you know, helping the customer, telling them, you're going to feel uncomfortable and so am I, and we're in this together. I love it. I love it.

this together. I love it. I love it.

Well, brother, this was uh not disappointing at all. And uh I'm very I'm very proud to have you, you know, on stage here in in in the Zoom stage to

share your story, share your success.

You're going to get a lot of questions.

A lot of people are going to hit you up.

What what is the best way for people to reach you or get a hold of you?

>> Yeah, LinkedIn works great. I think a bunch of you have already reached out.

I'll do my best to respond. And you

know, Ian, thank you so much for having me on this. Uh I've shared things here that, you know, only my my close colleagues know. So, I hope this

colleagues know. So, I hope this benefits you guys. And um yeah, I I think you guys are in a great program.

Remember, Ian was number one. I was a lowly number two. So, you are listening to the person who has had more success.

you have a better track record. So if if if my math is correct, I I hit my quota 16 of 19 years, that's 84% and you're 12

of 13 years, that's 92%. So your actual quota attainment percentage is is number one. So just want to call it call a

one. So just want to call it call a spade a spade.

>> Yeah. Well, thank you, Ian. I really

appreciate the opportunity and uh hopefully you guys found this lifegiving. It's not just about the job,

lifegiving. It's not just about the job, it's about the whole picture. That's for

sure. And I had to learn that the hard way.

>> I just picture you with your daughters in on a pony with goats and sheep and it just brings Yeah.

>> some some peace imagining that. So I

think that to me is like no screens, family outdoors walking. That is the best part of this interview. So I hope everyone can take that away and think about like again who do you want to be?

What is the best version of you? And

then what are the changes that's going to support that? Whether it's removing things or adding things.

>> That's right. Everybody go buy a pony.

That's what you should take away from this. Go buy a pony. [laughter]

this. Go buy a pony. [laughter]

>> All right, you guys have a good one.

Thanks again, Mike. I'll see you all next.

>> Thanks, everybody. Take care.