Heptabase's AI has just killed NotebookLM and Mem 2.0.

Everybody, welcome back to another podcast episode. Today we talk about

podcast episode. Today we talk about Hepabase and what a right this was in 2025. I just thought what the heck when

2025. I just thought what the heck when they launched the AI recently that literally killed notebook LM and even MEM in my opinion that is insane and I

remember very well and I'm sure you do too Paco when we talked to Alan the founder of Heptabase and they had initially some random chatbot in there

and they removed it because he said they want to make something special that actually works and that is actually you know that makes sense to integrate ation

and now they show what this meant and I love it and we have quite a similar right with our my iicor application because there's the same it's all coming

down to the foundation when you build an application like heptabase or my iore or you name it if you have the right foundation that you can draw out on

paper the tool agnostic approach behind all this in our case the icon methodology in their case how everything is connected the definitions of the different entities inside the

application to really leverage the the well the best parts of the different PKM systems out there and make something very deeply integrated then it it pays

off on the long run for sure and that's what we see in Hepabase now because now they added well a month ago or two months ago already the AI chatbot right

where you can ask questions about your PDF files and then people said well very underwhelming But I was expecting that there are something more coming and this

happened and then they started with recognizing the whiteboards and AI knew what is on the whiteboard and then it was already on a road map that they understand the whole knowledge base of

EPA base which was mindblowing because up to this point it was really just me well also notion and so on who had this deep integration but the problem with

tools like notion it is too complex the tool there are too many things that can confuse AI like in ClickUp too the clickup brain there are too many things

that AI can look at and so therefore in the end doesn't finds nothing and by focusing just on personal knowledge management and your knowledge base they made a really great job to find anything

that I'm asking for from my knowledge base well and then now they have a deep integration with vector databases and embeddings that they leverage now the same way that notebook LM does and for

all of the develop velopers out there, you know, it's no magic behind this Notebook LM. They just made it again the

Notebook LM. They just made it again the Google way, very easy to access, focusing on the best features that are nowhere else out there. And that's why it came across, but now we have it in

Hepabase with no limitation to our knowledge that we want to add here versus in Notebook LM, you're just strictly focusing on a specific research

topic. And uh in Heepbase, you you have

topic. And uh in Heepbase, you you have you have it all at hand now. So this is mind-blowing. What a start in 2026 for

mind-blowing. What a start in 2026 for Heepa base here. Paco.

>> Yeah.

>> Year too.

>> Really really for me. No the thing is that I'm really impressed by how these guys are working delivering how they have uh

make a perfect interpretation of the world of PKM. um for me the best possible okay because they have synthesized everything but they have

deliver insane an insane amount of features without making the user feeling overwhelmed and that's really difficult really difficult

I can perfectly remember when I first when I started reading okay the the vision behind the tool I highly recommend the people to to look for

those article on medium they are quite deep okay and they have been written by Alan and I remember when I read that I couldn't stop I I I was reading and I'm

not a night old okay but I can remember that I start reading all night long those articles because I he was able to

communicate in plain text okay what he has on his mind and since then they have been unbeatable okay We were a little

bit uh disappointed about how late they incorporate AI, but the moment they did it, it was in an impressive way. Okay,

instead of just going through the hype of AI, they decided to think everything in such a deepness. Okay, that that it's

a amazing the moment that they start delivering how they have I think that just in a matter of one month, one month and a half, two months, I don't know.

For me, it was uh nothing at all. Okay,

talking about the time that we were waiting for them and it's been impressive because also how trustable this tool is. I mean I haven't

experienced glitches uh problems with synchronization maybe at the beginning okay that I remember that we were interacting with the team okay because

at the beginning the the the syncing uh feature wasn't working properly >> more than two years ago right >> yes correct it was in the early day when

they were starting to delivering a lot of big features but anyway for me the pace is the Perfect one talking about um

how you can keep your user database uh motivated. Uh for us

motivated. Uh for us every time we press the update button something new emerges that really resonates to the user. Okay. They they

deliver useful things. Okay. And uh it's a tool that I do love no matter that I'm not a heavy user of it. Okay. But I

interact within with it every single day. not as my main PK tool but I'm

day. not as my main PK tool but I'm following these guys and also all the releases all the post on social media and all the connections that we have

with this team and it's simply amazing and congratulations for them and I'm really happy also because we talk a lot about Hepabase but I think that there hasn't been an exception talking about

any of our members that we have recommended this u tool that they get disappointed okay the learning curve was

almost nothing. Okay. And the moment

almost nothing. Okay. And the moment that you start I think that the moment that you start interacting with the tool is the moment that you start receiving real added value from a tool without any

friction at all. And uh for me that's a miracle taking into account how difficult it is the PKM world and PKM software. So amazing amazing and

software. So amazing amazing and congratulations for these guys.

>> Yeah correct. The the thing is I just checked it in my ICO in the ICO toolfinder. We have uh 122

toolfinder. We have uh 122 people using EPA base from 565, but not everybody laid out their tool st yet.

This being said, different perspective.

It is placed first in the PKM tools. By

far compared to the other PKM tools, the next one would be then Apple nodes surprisingly. And then we see let's see

surprisingly. And then we see let's see um well no sorry heptabase read wise reader no not true heptabase apple nodes

read wise reader and then we have notion obsidian tana you know all these in this order everode is really behind in the meantime so this is actual data from our

members and this shows that uh well we are not the only ones who using it it's not promotion or it's not sponsored trippase. The whole thing is always

trippase. The whole thing is always sponsored by our members by being part of the my core uh membership and the payless movement. And this is this is

payless movement. And this is this is all we have to say here. And when we go to to the chat, I just saw that Marco

posted in the chat. Let me go back. Not

only they Marco posted in the chat, not only they added full space rack, they also released the MCP that you can connect any MCP capable assistant to search and also create nodes. For those

who don't know what MCP is in short, you can connect it to your chat GPT, you can to your claude to external AI tools and

allow AI from an external place to access and even interact with your tool from outside. So you have a chat GPT

from outside. So you have a chat GPT conversation, you have great insights and then you just simply tell chat GPT write the conclusion of our conversation into a new node inside Hepabase and

again what a game changer and how ahead of the time they are. It is not much magic but they made it right and they positioned it and they make it easy to

access. Now in the meantime, Hepabase

access. Now in the meantime, Hepabase also allows uh using AI without bringing in your own API key to make it accessible as possible as two as well.

And this is amazing. And then Marco keeps writing, I use it with alter AI and raycast and it's amazing. Well, this

is amazing. Raycast. Well, Paco and I, we love using Raycast. And if you look look at our tool stack in my ICO, you see it that we both using it. And uh

Raycast is the the finder replacement or the search finder. What is it called?

It's the original one on Mac when you search for apps and things like that.

Raycast replace >> spotlight.

>> Oh, the spotlight. Exactly. The

spotlight. So Raycast replaces this and you can integrate it with other tools.

And this means what what Marco shares here is that you just open your spotlight in this case raycast and ask questions about your knowledge base in Heepterbase and it finds the nodes and

you can open up these nodes. Uh I

haven't looked into the MCP integration yet but I use a lot of MCP integrations in other ways. So I'm I cannot wait to test this out and obviously I will make a video about this. So, and then he

keeps writing when I'm in a meeting, I can ask where we talk about feature X and it does respond quickly. Now, I'm

trying to send my meeting transcripts to. So, Tom and Parker, you did good.

to. So, Tom and Parker, you did good.

You did gave a good advice. Heptase does

provide for the majority and let's say majority of busy professionals, right?

It's not it's obviously it is it is made by students maybe for students you could think of for researchers but this is the the easiest to adapt tool for busy

professionals out there and that's what we saw two years ago when we started the first inner circle coaching you know people always ask what tool should we use what should we use and we ended up

always saying start with heptabase because it has all the features but it's not so complex as other tools tools and if you really hit a ceiling in a certain area then you can move on to another

tool that we are not all use I'm using only heptabase and PKM combined with read wise reader relator app and Paco is using tana mainly so there we go okay so

he's using a different tool because he has a different use case and hit a ceiling hits a ceiling in a haptabase that he uses a different tool for but before you even know what this ceiling

is you you have to understand the capabilities of these tools. And there's

Hepabase by far the easiest to learn the the the the biggest return of investment when you just put in your knowledge there and see immediately insights into the things that you never saw before.

And now with the combination of AI that you just threw throw PDF files and whatever in there and you get insights immediately >> to me uh that's a that's a no-brainer

when when anybody asks now what PKM tool should I use. Yeah. Go with Heptabase because you get it all literally you get it all what you need for personal knowledge management.

>> Yes. And and also note taking because uh Heptabase doesn't fall short and that's also something important. Okay, because

I'm surprised, okay, by the stat coming from our IIcore toolfinder. Okay,

because I didn't expect that Apple Notes was going to be the second one. But the

point is that I cannot imagine, you know, first off, well, Apple Notes is not a PM tool, okay? It's a note takingaking app, okay? And it will fall short pretty quickly for any VC

professionals, okay? the way that you

professionals, okay? the way that you can connect the things and well many essential features talking about PKM okay the most basic features it's impossible I know that many people

defend that they are using Apple nodes uh uh for everything but I think that that's because it's a simple uh life I could say okay the moment that you

really want to generate action out of your information you need a PKM system and a proper uh tool okay and the moment that you start

comparing Apple notes or any other simple note taking tool with heptabase or well notion any other it's impossible

okay the thing is finding that sweet spot that that's what Heptabase was able to deliver okay create something simple enough to avoid people start working and

interacting with the tool without any friction pretty quickly okay and especially well here if you go through our heptabase mastery course you will Well,

I don't I cannot express how fast you will be amazed by all the different features that they have implemented in such a an impressive way that uh I

cannot describe but the thing is that and that's the miracle and the heptabase is creating something that delivers a lot of features. For instance, Tom is a

heavy user and I'm convinced that he he still has a lot to go okay with that tool. Okay, it didn't fall short at

that tool. Okay, it didn't fall short at any moment. At any moment and for me

any moment. At any moment and for me that's something okay because it's quote pretty easy to create something that never f falls short but that it's super

complicated. Okay. And then that's for

complicated. Okay. And then that's for for instance the example of Tana. Okay.

Tana is super powerful but what the heck man the learning curve everything is full of obstacles for most of the people obviously and I'm a defender of that

tool because I'm using it daily. But I

when I start comparing, okay, the ROI from one tool to the other, it has no comparison possible. It has no

comparison possible. It has no comparison possible.

>> And beware, yeah, I just said app notes is on second position. But this you always have to read statistics correctly. This could mean that people

correctly. This could mean that people use in addition to Apple nodes too, right? So if people use both in the tool

right? So if people use both in the tool stack, it shows up too. and then we wouldn't need to filter further to see the you know unique use cases and things like that. But that that being said

like that. But that that being said that's a legible uh a legit way to use it. You can use Apple notes along with

it. You can use Apple notes along with Hepabase. If you are the handwriting

Hepabase. If you are the handwriting person and you want to sit in a meeting and take your handwritten notes, but beware then you better learn the ICO

methodology and know what routines means and processing your intermediate nodes and to your final destination and all these things will help you then to use

both tools in parallel without duplicating and scattering information.

That's the danger using two different tools and we have seen it with AI. I

know on their road map they have still the sitting there the handwriting capability coming to the base too and if they do this I don't know what Apple notes will then still have uh to deliver

here because accessibility is also beyond Apple nodes. The moment I don't I'm not on a Mac I have a hard time to really use my um my notes. I can view it

in a browser but this is it. there's not

so much going on and having a a um a tool like kept base on the outside I can move on to other systems to other companies collaborating and that's the

beauty having then only the personal knowledge management inside this tool and not trying to have everything in one tool that what that makes it uh that

brings to the point where Paco said I'm not using it to the full extent and Paco is not using Tana to the full extent because we only use the things that

really really makes us more efficient and all the other things are managed by other tools. So for example, I don't use

other tools. So for example, I don't use the databases inside Hepabase. I don't

use the tagging system and things like that. I know how it works. I see the

that. I know how it works. I see the potential there, but I'm using other tools where this information is much easier to access. Well, in fact, for for example, CRM, right, you can build

easily. If I if I start out as a

easily. If I if I start out as a solopreneur or entrepreneur um on my own and I have some clients, I might make a CRM system to manage my clients in there

and have an overview of these people.

The moment you start getting a lot more customers, this is not the solution. You

need to have collaboration features and all this and even that Hepabase provides this in some extent. It's not really a

team b knowledge management tool and therefore we've built our custommade but we use clickup before that and before that it was notion that is a whole other things and by separating or first

understanding the different types of information for yourself personal versus the team information that you need to share you already get a different perspective on the tools what are available out there and you start using

one tool just for your personal knowledge and And then another tool for the team knowledge and that gives you such a peace of mind. Again getting back to the example switching companies moving on you will take along your

personal thoughts and nobody can take it away and leave the team knowledge behind where it belongs to the old company for for example and can use a different tool in the future for this business

knowledge management and that makes it really powerful and flexible once you get the full scope of a productivity system end to end in a tool agnostic way. That's what we teach you guys in

way. That's what we teach you guys in IICOR that makes you so makes you so flexible to use whatever tool combination you need to have the most

efficient productivity system available.

>> Yeah. And I was thinking about our tool stacks that mainly for Tom and myself is exactly the the same. Okay. And how long

and the good tools that we have have been within our tool stack. Okay. If I

think about to-d doist uh superhuman uh I don't know all our tools like clickup for instance how long we've been betting on this tool while they won uh well one

password I don't know too many tools that uh we have been evolving with them okay because that's the beautiful thing when you bet on tools that uh you

understand the vision okay how they are designed why they are designed that way It's really okay and how you see that they are evolving. Okay. Because this is

something that didn't happen for instance with Evernote. Okay. That had

like a a stop I I cannot remember how long ago maybe three four years ago when uh the Rome approach appear they didn't make that evolution. Okay. And then they

get stuck. Okay. And with that people

get stuck. Okay. And with that people and the two of us for instance had to look for some other approaches like Rome or MEM at that moment. Well, at that

moment there was obsidian, right? So for

all of the those who say, "Ah, but you have no clue about obsidian."

>> Bucker and I, we both been heavy user or power users of obsidian back then.

>> Well, I have to say that on medium, they they're still one of the most read articles there, man. Obsidian, man, that I spend one year and a half. By the way,

I enjoyed it a lot. No matter that I end up concluding that it wasn't the the right tool for me and for busy professionals, that's something that I will always defend. Okay, that position.

I think that for busy professional that's not the right tool. Okay, being

said that anyone can do whatever they think. Okay, but if I compare obsidian

think. Okay, but if I compare obsidian versus heptace, it's it's impossible to compare. It's they are so different

compare. It's they are so different approaches that it's impossible and unfair okay to start comparing because they are beautiful and amazing tools but

the thing is thinking about busy professionals what are the tools that we recommend okay and we can see that the moment that we recommend or we share tools and approaches and things like

that that resonate with VC professional they start using them and they keep using them okay we have seen many cases no matter the tools even for instance

with Tana okay we have people thanks to ICOR have changed it how they approach the tool and with that approach and they

have uh being able to keep betting on that tool in a total different way and that's important to know to understand that based on the workflows and concepts

that you are using you can change completely the interaction and how you use a tool and the benefits that you get from it. Correct. And uh that's that's

from it. Correct. And uh that's that's really what you said for busy professionals. It's it's it's not that

professionals. It's it's it's not that they are not busy professionals who don't get the point how to use Obsidian.

We refer to that busy professionals are busy with other things and they're already overwhelmed to catch up with their work and then they go into the productivity rabbit hole on YouTube and

they get recommended tools like Obsidian, Notion, and so on. And then

they invest even more time because they think it's worth it the return of investment into learning that tool. And

that's where we say no start using heptabase because the learning curve is so low that you immediately start getting benefits the moment you start

using it. And then when you think you're

using it. And then when you think you're ready, you can then discover other tools like Obsidian or whatever because you know what you need and what your best version would look like. That's the

reason when they say man how can you compare heptabase with obsidian I can build this amazing thing in obsidian that's great but if you have no clue how to build a productivity system in the

first place then you know you just start copy pasting or downloading templates from other people's lives and they never will fit your specific life and that's

the the also the key reason here >> I I wonder why you need to to build you know for me it's something that you know and Well, I've been a developer for 20

years. So, imagine I love building, but

years. So, imagine I love building, but the moment that you are in charge of too many things is the time to outsource, okay, that building process. I don't

want to build. I want people building for me and I will be very happy to invest on those products. Okay, because

they improve my performance, my status, my state of calm. I don't know too many things that uh good tools bring to the

table and that's uh whenever I I look at our and interact with our tool stag I always say the same man I am where I am due to my tool stack for sure okay it

brings me clarity it brings me control it brings me power it brings me the information where I need it helps my decision making process all those things

all those assets that any VC professional needs to be already built.

Okay, that's a that's the thing. I don't

know why. Okay, if you have time, you are a cod developer, that's a totally different approach to productivity tools. Okay, and how they approach and

tools. Okay, and how they approach and why they love to have everything for instance on Obsidian on people who are really feel much better when they think

about that local file storage all those things, okay? And they love to do

things, okay? And they love to do versioning using GitHub or whatever through their files. But what the heck when I think in a marketing and engineer any type of professional okay dedicating

time to those thing because we have to think that there's a trade-off okay the moment that you start dedicating time to build things you are not dedicating time

to some of the things so you have to make a reflection okay to decide and choose if it's worth it or not your time because I think that the opportunity

cost is huge okay is huge and That's something that's why even in tools like Tenner I think that my implementation is one of the simplest possible okay I

didn't go into the nitty-gritty okay for me it's a outliner on asteroids okay and that's how I interpret that thing but that's it okay that's it I I I just use

it for note takingaking okay to think okay because it's a PKM tool I I don't use heptabase for thinking unless it's too complex the the thing or for a specific use cases. Okay. And that's the

tool that helps me to think but not based on a complicated setup. Okay. That

I dedicate time to maintain to change that uh no no uh the moment that I I've never been into that nitty-gritty and I

receive many technical questions or whatever about Tana and I say well I cannot give you advice. I can recommend you well I have pretty good relationships with experts real experts

on Tana. Okay. And they have amazing

on Tana. Okay. And they have amazing setups. Okay. Because they have gone

setups. Okay. Because they have gone through that uh approach that it's well one that uh Tana really shines. Okay.

Because it's so flexible that allows you to do everything. But for people who their main goal is not building these type of tools. Well, we even find people

with problems using tools like uh ClickUp. So imagine Tana that for me is

ClickUp. So imagine Tana that for me is even much more complex. Okay. H how

you're going to suffer, how you're going to waste time, energy, all the frustration process because it's pretty easy to see the current setups of a specific people and think that uh you

can build that on or that that's going to be useful for you a specific use case and at the end most of those people end up frustrated okay uh they blame the the

tool even okay the company uh whatever because they are not using that tool as it was expected or they are going into

trying to find out and take advantage of the endless features that this type of tool has instead of just saying well I will use just 50% because I know that

that 50% is not covered at all okay by any other tool and that's the right approach not just with Tana but with any tool any tool okay and that's my

recommendation to people and the moment that people follow this type of advice I think that they improve their performance because they free up time to dedicate to the things that matter.

Okay, that for busy professionals, I think that is not building complex, you know, setups on tools. Uh because um tools are means to an end. And I think

that that's the main principle. Okay.

And the moment that is not a means, it's just a way of consuming resources, maybe that's not the the right tool for you.

>> Yeah. And Marco in the member chat echoes all this. So he says, "Speed.

Busy professionals have limited time. A

tool must enable instan instant instantaneous actions without lengthy setup.

Adaptability. It should be flexible and customizable with just a few clicks, allowing it to adjust quickly to different workflows. Ease of use.

different workflows. Ease of use.

Avoiding complex logic or advanced settings reduces the learning curve and boosts adoption. how well this is summed

boosts adoption. how well this is summed up. Thank you so much, Marco. And then

up. Thank you so much, Marco. And then

he keeps saying, "We don't have a lot of time. We certainly can't dedicate that

time. We certainly can't dedicate that time to configure something instead of working." The mantra is work in the

working." The mantra is work in the tool, not working on the tool. The

opposite then being a business owner right there. You should work on the

right there. You should work on the business and not in the business.

Perfect guys. What a great uh session today and we will keep going and thanks for being a member in the chat and then joining us there. We catch you guys up next week then.

>> Yeah, I would like to to end up by saying that we have well and this is the first uh podcast session that we use our uh amazing new uh learning platform.

Okay. And for me it's beautiful. Sorry.

It's not because we made it. It's

because it's really beautiful and I'm enjoying a lot seeing this miracle.

Okay, because this has been a a miracle not only thinking about this tool but dedicating time to build it. Okay, but

it was necessary. Okay, now we are seeing the the impressive outcomes, okay, that we are and this is just the beginning, okay, we have launched it in

just one month, okay, so you can imagine in the next coming months and I would like to publicly appreciate and thank

Tom by the amazing and insane effort that he has done to make of a crazy idea something that it's tangible, okay, and that all our members are enjoying even

for free that it's important. Okay,

because even for free you can get a an idea of what is this is all about. So

congratulations and so proud of share this with all our members and followers and all the people who who belong to the movement. Okay, so it's a great day for

movement. Okay, so it's a great day for all of us. Thanks so much Paco for mentioning and obviously impossible without the two of us to pull all this off because as I said initially when

starting the session today it's all based on the foundation that we've built together and set in stone with the ICO journey book. So impossible to build a

journey book. So impossible to build a tool like this without this foundation and 2026 guys will be amazing for all of us. See you inside my icore.

us. See you inside my icore.

>> See you guys. Thank you so much.