How a 17-Year-Old Is Learning in the Age of AI

Because I go to Alpha High School, I learn all my academic content through an AI powered platform. In 20 days, I'm going to go fly out to San Francisco to work on my project full-time, and I'm

able to negotiate with my guides. If I

submit finish semester A now, I can come back from the trip, finish semester B, and still have my high school credit and get into my dream college. Why in

general are people pessimistic about AI?

It's cuz I think they're uncertain. And

I think the important thing here is to be grounded in rational optimism and understand what will this look like and what is the world that we should be building.

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now back to the episode. Alex, welcome

to the show.

>> Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

>> So, you are a very, very special guest because you are by far the youngest guest we have ever had on this show. You

are 17. You uh go to Alpha High School in Austin, Texas. and you're a you're an every reader. Uh you're a podcast fan

every reader. Uh you're a podcast fan and we talked a little while ago and I wanted to have you on the show because in talking to you I was like wow I'm I'm

old. Um, and uh

old. Um, and uh we I just hear all these stories from people from Gen Z, Gen Alpha, younger

who are uh and they're all talking about like, oh, kids hate technology, they hate AI or they love it or it's ruining their brains or whatever. And I actually just

care a lot about how people your age and older and and even younger like are actually interacting with the stuff. I

think it's a it's like it's such an interesting it's such an interesting question for me. So, just wanted to have you on the show to talk about uh like

how you're using AI, how you how you see it, um how the people around you see it.

Alpha School is obviously like a super hot um topic these days. So, any

anything you want to tell us about that I think would be really interesting. So,

>> yeah, let's let's get started. Um,

>> yeah, >> I guess tell me how are how are you using it just like in your day-to-day life?

>> Yeah, it's a good question. I think the so the biggest use case right now because I go to Alpha High School is I have no teachers. I learn all my content, all my all the content,

academic content through an AI powered platform. So when I say this, most

platform. So when I say this, most people think, oh, you're just talking to CHBT or a chatbot or whatever. But we

actually have no AI chatout tutor in the morning at all cuz we have tested and we've seen that we either constrict it like too much because we don't want people to cheat so much so that it's not

helpful or we don't you know uh restrict it enough so that students are just using it to cheat. And so instead we have an AI in the background of our platform which I can actually show you

guys. Um, and it basically customizes

guys. Um, and it basically customizes all of the content towards us and figures out where kind of our our um gaps are in our learning and uh they're they're proprietary here alpha apps that

um I'm actually not in any of them because they're not um AP classes and since I'm a senior in high school I'm only pretty much doing AP classes. Um

but yeah. Yeah. There's just a mixture of of alpha apps, third party apps all powered by AI tailored to to each individual student.

>> Wait. Okay. So like walk me through then your day. Like I don't under I don't

your day. Like I don't under I don't understand. And you're saying we is are

understand. And you're saying we is are you involved in alpha school or you just go to alpha school?

>> I just go to alpha school but I say we because every quarter we get a survey and we give feedback on everything.

Every day I'm giving feedback to the guides and so the students are very involved.

>> Okay. So let's say it's it's what what time does school start? 8 a.m.

>> 8:30.

>> 8:30. So you get into school at 8:30.

What's your first hour like?

>> So actually the first 15 minutes is what we like to call like Tony Robbins for kids. It's like getting energized, doing

kids. It's like getting energized, doing like a puzzle, whatever. We just want you to kind of transition from home life to school life. Um,

>> and you're in a class with how with with uh how many people?

>> So, the total high school is around 50 people. My senior year class is only

people. My senior year class is only eight people. So, it's pretty small.

eight people. So, it's pretty small.

>> Okay. And and and by class, I mean I'm talking about like give me the you're in like a a room with you and eight and seven other people and that that's your that's your senior class and it's right

in the morning and you're all kind of like uh doing your Tony Robbins thing or like how does it what it like set the scene for me a little bit.

>> For sure. Yeah. So, what's interesting is in Alpha, we have houses kind of like Hogwarts. And so, there are like five

Hogwarts. And so, there are like five houses. Um, and there are like there's

houses. Um, and there are like there's one special kind of house that we're experimenting with.

>> You're sorted into your houses via personality, progress in your project, things like that. And I can get into the Alpha X project, which is a big part of Alpha High School. But the the special house is called Sparta. Um, so it's like

the Spartans. And then we have a a

the Spartans. And then we have a a competing house called Athens. So,

Sparta v Athens. And it's it's for the kids who are really working hard on their their Alpha X project. Um, which

is an Olympic level project that they're trying to be the best in the world in and and build a super cool product or service. Um, and so it's for the people

service. Um, and so it's for the people who really want to ramp it up. Anyways,

I I I'll sit with my Spartans, you know, my fellow Spartans. Some are

>> And those are all age levels basically.

>> Um, what do you mean by that?

>> Like uh your fellow Spartans, there's seniors, there's juniors, there's freshman.

>> Yes, exactly. So, it's a it's a mix. Um,

and so we'll either do a big school opening because there's only 50 of us um in, you know, the the big open space or we'll go into our houses and talk about a book we read or whatever it is.

>> That's really cool. Okay. And uh and Okay, remind me. So this this 15-minute thing like is there is there a teacher that's guiding it? Is a student guiding it? Is it an AI guiding it? How does it

it? Is it an AI guiding it? How does it work?

>> All three. It just depends on the day.

Sometimes we've had um expert AI debates where we debate an AI. um there's kind of a a guide or a teacher kind of walking us through it. Um sometimes it's very student driven. We're like, "Hey, we just wanted to talk about this today." Like, "We just found a really

today." Like, "We just found a really like cool tweet and we just wanted to talk about it." Um sometimes in Sparta we'll have book books that we read together. Um and so we can we can talk

together. Um and so we can we can talk about that. Uh it just really depends.

about that. Uh it just really depends.

>> And how are teachers involved? And you

are you call you call them guides not teachers?

>> Yes, we call them guides not teachers.

The the role of let me set the scene.

The role of a teacher right now is like they're doing five different things.

They are talking to parents. They're

trying to teach the content. They're

trying to grade the papers. They're

trying to help people be motivated.

They're uh doing other admin work.

They're doing so many different things.

And so the goal of Alpha is to just, you know, create a new role for each individual thing. So there's like a dean

individual thing. So there's like a dean of parents to deal with parents. And

then obviously the content is is taught by AI. Um, and now the role of the

by AI. Um, and now the role of the guide, which is super important, is just solely focused on motivating students, giving them emotional support, and helping them figure out what they want to do and how they want to do it. Um,

and so it's super important that we have the guides to kind of facilitate everything and make sure we're we're on pace to to complete our goals.

>> Are they like topic expert guides? So,

like if you're is there like a French class that's like taught by like a like a French teacher like I guided guided by a French teacher or is there is like one

guide for the house and and the whatever you're doing they're expected to kind of be able to follow you and help you with emotional support and the expert is like the AI.

>> Yeah, that's a good question. So, it it kind of depends and and we're still learning things but in terms of the guides, what are their backgrounds?

Usually, they you know they have to take an IQ test and things like that. they

have to come be with the the students.

We get to hire and fire guides, which we have done before. And uh I've I'm very picky with my guide selection. I say no to most of them. Um but we have guides who used to be lawyers, guides who used

to be entrepreneurs, guides who used to be copywriters. Um and they all have

be copywriters. Um and they all have different, you know, strengths. And so

even though I have one house guide, Cameron, who's my house guide, is, you know, really into entrepreneurship and trying to build out the entrepreneurship program for Alpha School, um I I'll go to him for specifically that kind of thing. If I want to maybe vent to one of

thing. If I want to maybe vent to one of my guides, I'll go to a different one.

Um they all have just, you know, unique special abilities.

>> Okay. So like let's get further into the day. So you do the 15-minute thing with

day. So you do the 15-minute thing with your house and then what? So the first three hours for high school, two hours for the younger kids are just you doing

your apps and we we chunk it into Pomodoro timer. So 27 minutes of school

Pomodoro timer. So 27 minutes of school work and then five minutes break and then one long break. Uh you can go out to go get coffee from Joe's or the grocery store, whatever you want to do.

Um and during those 27 minutes, you're locked in usually on one subject and you're watching a video and taking notes, reading an article, doing a quiz.

It's not like again it's not chatting with a chatbot. you're actually like reading material, consuming things, trying to learn.

>> Who's telling you which one to do, though?

>> So, that's um every week you'll you'll have a meeting with your guide, and you're like, "Here's where I'm at with all my courses. I'm good at math, so I'm like 88% through my math course, and we're not close to the end of the year

yet, but I'm really bad at reading, and I'm like barely through my AP literature course." And so, we'll set custom XP or

course." And so, we'll set custom XP or goals. That's our kind of metric of of

goals. That's our kind of metric of of choice, uh to see what we need to hit by the end of the week to be on track to finish our courses. Interesting. And

then you you set the goals and then when you sit down, the AI is kind of like your goal is to get better at reading.

How about we do a Pomodoro on XYZ thing?

Or are you saying I know my goal is this? Hey, what's what should I like I'm

this? Hey, what's what should I like I'm going to open up the app for reading? I

don't know exactly how it works, but yeah, explain how that works.

>> It's it's like even more seamless where it's like you on the dashboard there's like course one, course two, API.

>> Can I see it? Can you just show me it?

Is that possible?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And just describe what's there for people who are listening so that um if if you're listening, you can you understand what's going on?

>> Totally. So there's a a little dashboard here and it basically has a toggle of all of my courses and it's a mix of proprietary alpha apps. So if it's a

prop prior alpha app, I'll I'll be doing the work inside of this this system which we call time back. Um, and if it's not, it'll take us to the, you know, external kind of resource. So, right now

I'm on AP psychology. I'm I'm a bit through unit one. And it's just like here's what you have to do next. So, if

we show past completed items, we'll see, oh, I've done all these readings. I've

done this quiz. Um, the quizzes are super interesting because you start at a 0% and we're trying to work our way up to mastery. That's super important.

to mastery. That's super important.

Mastery based learning, um, as you know.

Um, and, uh, you know, I've I've been through all these things already. mix of

again video, reading quiz, video. Um,

and now I just have another, you know, video to watch on my AP psychology. Uh,

APs are usually about curation over creation. There's just a bunch of AP

creation. There's just a bunch of AP resources out there. So, our academic teams take take good morning after >> take the best ones and and we'll get this super energetic guy who's already embedded learning science into his

videos. Um, and it's similar for, you

videos. Um, and it's similar for, you know, the kind of social sciences video, lesson, quiz. So, as you can see here,

lesson, quiz. So, as you can see here, this is one of the quizzes. We call it a power pass score. Start at zero, work up to 100. Um, every time, you know, I I

to 100. Um, every time, you know, I I get one right or get let's just submit one. I got it wrong. My power pass score

one. I got it wrong. My power pass score went down. My accuracy went down.

went down. My accuracy went down.

>> And we consider mastery to be above an 80% mastery score. Um, because that's like enough to to be able to move on and fill gas later if it's really a problem.

>> Um, >> this is really interesting. Okay. So,

I'm looking at this and it it reminds me a lot of like, you know, I've used Khan Academy before. There's a similar sort

Academy before. There's a similar sort of, you know, there's a there's a set of there's videos, there's um quizzes, and you kind of like go go down the path, but it wasn't like part of a structure.

It was just like you're allowed to do this if you want.

>> Yeah. And I'm looking at this and thinking of myself when I was like a sophomore or junior, especially with AI, and being like,

I could I could agent agentify this and I wouldn't have to do all the readings and all the stupid videos and like whatever. So tell me about that

whatever. So tell me about that experience of of learning this way and also the experience of being forced to learn this way and then how you I mean I

think you're being forced uh uh I certainly like there are certain things in AP literature that you're interested in. There's certain things where it's

in. There's certain things where it's like I guess I have to just do this to take the test. Um yeah so >> yeah tell me about that.

>> Yeah I I want to give you some more context. I this is my second year at

context. I this is my second year at alpha. I used to go to a really like

alpha. I used to go to a really like tough magnet school. Um, so I was spending like 12 hours a day on schoolwork and they were all lecture-based. And so with lectures, you

lecture-based. And so with lectures, you just have to kind of sit through everything like you said, no matter if you're interested or not. Um, what's

interesting here is I was just in a meeting with uh one of the academics people and they were like um let's set some more goals and tell us the pain points you're having right now. And I

was like, oh my gosh, I'm obsessed with AP psychology. I can just breathe

AP psychology. I can just breathe through it because it is the most interesting thing to me >> um ever and um because it's related to my, you know, my project. They're like

great, like let's just do that. But I'm

like, oh my gosh, can I just tell you AP Lit is my least favorite thing in the world. I I'd rather do anything than

world. I I'd rather do anything than than do AP Lit. And they're like, okay, let's set up a motivational model to incentivize you to do so. Um, and so I don't know if I'm hitting the right question here, but in for for the

classes that you're really struggling with, there are incentives for for you to, you know, actually do them, whether it be money towards your project, it could be food. We do these things called

FOMOs where we go out and we um I think last time we're at some like rooftop Christmas thing and we all got hot chocolate and played games together. And

so um there are these like fun things that we can do to incentivize you to do things. Um but also on a more technical

things. Um but also on a more technical level like um let's go back here. You

can see when um uh you know how long someone is spending on a lesson. If I

get out of the lesson, it'll say lesson paused and so you can't like they can tell if you're like trying to cheat or something, whatever. Um but yeah, hope

something, whatever. Um but yeah, hope that answers it.

>> It does. I'm still like I don't know. I

throw this I could throw this into chat GBT Atlas and you know have it click around and watch some stuff for me while I'm off doing my thing. You never do that?

>> Yeah.

>> No, not at all. Because they can see that as well. Like um on my school laptop, I'm not my school laptop right now. They have um you know a screen

now. They have um you know a screen share thing and they can see what we're doing on all of our screens. They have a waste meter so they're watching our faces to see if we're talking with friends or doing something else.

>> They're very precise. You know, the big thing about Alpha is we want to measure everything to make sure that you're actually getting the experience you deserve. And I will be honest, it's like

deserve. And I will be honest, it's like 90% motivation, 10% edtech. Like the

learning science here is great. All the

interle, do the different subjects, whatever. Um, and you know, where I I

whatever. Um, and you know, where I I know about it because I understand why it's optimal for my learning. But the

big thing is, oh, in in 20 days, I'm going to go fly out to San Francisco to work on my project full-time. And I'm

able to negotiate with my guides. if I

submit finish semester A now I can come back from the trip finish semester B and still have my high school credit and get into my dream college whatever um so it's that flexibility it's the deal also

I will say it is so different for alpha high school because a lot of us are you know teenagers are are funny little species and uh we're in our rebellious phase whatever we want more autonomy um

and uh there's a bit more flexibility here for the younger kids you know they're just on their two hours doing their apps doing their reading and writing kind of core four core skills and then in the afternoon they're doing their workshops and so motivation's a

bit more straightforward there.

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That's grammarly.com. And now back to the episode. And while you're doing

the episode. And while you're doing this, are you sitting in a classroom and everyone's like sort of silent during the pomodoros and they're watching their thing and then there's like five minutes and all hell breaks loose for five

minutes and then you go back or are people talking while they're while they're doing work? Like how what's the actual environment like?

>> It's a great question and this is also flexible. Um you can sit with your house

flexible. Um you can sit with your house which is most people what what usually most people do. Um and so you're with your your good friends in your house and you're quiet and you're just working and then during the five minute break you

can talk. Sometimes you can like I'm in

can talk. Sometimes you can like I'm in a separate room right now to take this you know podcast meeting and so you can just go to a booth or a room and work by yourself or if you need to meet with someone go somewhere else but yeah in

general the general space is super quiet during the pomodoros.

>> Okay so that's the first couple hours of your day your first three hours of your day. What what happens after that?

day. What what happens after that?

>> Yeah there do you have recess? I mean I guess you're in high school so you probably wouldn't have recess but do you have like free periods? Yeah. Tell me

tell me what what happens next.

>> Because of the pomodoras and because of the freedom in the afternoon there's no need for it. At least for high school, for the younger kids, the five minute pomodor things are their recess. Um, and

uh, yeah, we should also get into some of the workshops, but but for high school, it's very interesting. We have

kind of I'd say like three distinct tracks where people are going down. So,

um, there's not really a name for them, but we have like the alpha high regular track. So, these are the kids who

track. So, these are the kids who generally want to do well on their SAT scores, their APs, whatever. Um, we have the Ivy League track. So, these are the kids who really want to get into the best college in the world.

>> Are those the same?

>> Um, they're a little bit different because, um, for the alpha high honors track, maybe you want to become a pilot or maybe you want to, um, you know, do something that's like nontraditional,

but it doesn't really, you know, mesh well with the um, getting to dream college kind of thing. Um, and so there's different programming there. Um,

and then for for the third one, this is like the entrepreneurship pack. um

track. You really want to go hard on your business, build a startup, raise money, whatever it is.

>> Do people your age care about college?

>> I used to like, as I said, I used to go I feel like I've been in very two distinct bubbles, so I try to be aware of that. And in my old school, the

of that. And in my old school, the bubble and you know, group think was the only reason you're in high school is to get into a good college. And uh the the

bubble here is is is more nuanced and it's like, does it make sense for you to go to college? I can kind of walk you through my thinking about how I'm thinking about it. Um I talk to others about it. But yeah, sure. For me,

about it. But yeah, sure. For me,

there's kind of like three distinct paths I see um myself taking. And my

goal right now is to optimize for having all decisions possible when it's time to make the right decision. So the three distinct paths are number one, go to like one of the best universities. Um so

for me, my top two are Harvard and Berkeley right now. The the the second path is go to like an alternative university. So, I don't know if you've

university. So, I don't know if you've heard of Manurva or University of Austin, which is like right down the street.

>> I know. University of Austin. I thought

that shut down.

>> Uh, no, they kind of revamped it actually. They now might admission free,

actually. They now might admission free, whatever. But it it's it's um it's a bit

whatever. But it it's it's um it's a bit different from Alpha, but there's like a nice pipeline there. Um, and that's really interesting option. Uh, and

there's scholarships and things like that to cover living. So, basically, my university would be free. And then the third path is like, you know, teal fellowship, go all in on my idea, whatever it might be. And so I I don't

know what the right choice is because I'm kind of in the stage where I'm trying to bring my project from like um something I'm doing in school to like become real world, raise real money,

build a team, things like that. Um which

I fully believe I can do and the people around me fully believe I can do. Um

it's just like does it make sense for me at the right time?

>> Interesting. Okay. And then what about the people around you?

>> Yeah. So I'm going to give you some case studies. I have uh a friend who has two

studies. I have uh a friend who has two million on Tik Tok uh and >> two million followers and uh she is, you

know, starting to do brand deals and is making like 10 15k per brand deal. Um

and she's really cool. She has a great message with her her audience, a lot of resonance, very positive, very missiondriven. And so she's really

missiondriven. And so she's really interested in like turning influence into ownership. before her project idea

into ownership. before her project idea was like why combinator but for influencer girls um because distribution is king now and so she's still like experimenting with ideas but she wants

to go to you know she got it to Stanford she wants to go to Stanford and and kind of figure out what the right move is for her >> and why does she want to go to Stanford if she's already like pretty much I mean maybe she feels like this is not

necessarily her career path but yeah what's the what's the calculus of going to Stanford >> um from what I understand she loves being an influencer but she also really really wants just like the college

experience, like being being with your best friends, whatever it is, going to parties, whatever it is. Um, and so, uh, she just wants to have a lot of fun. And

I think, uh, for my other friend, she's building an AI powered teen dating coach. She has like 70,000 users. Um,

coach. She has like 70,000 users. Um,

and, uh, she's she's actually doing like lots of different projects. And, uh,

she's like doing her own thing. She's

figuring things out, but she's she also got to Stanford, wants to go there. She

also wants the, you know, college experience. um she she her her sister

experience. um she she her her sister goes to Stanford and she loves it and so um you know they're gonna end up there and doing their thing and and we don't know what will happen you know year or

two down the line. How do you feel about like when I was your age, which at this point was uh 15ish years ago,

it there were still there were starting to be people being like you don't need to go to college, but it was still like very much this is the this is the thing you have to do if you want to have any

sort of life at all. Um,

and now I feel like what what I'm hearing from you is you can do that and it's still appealing for people and there's like many more different options depending on what you want. Um, but

there can be sometimes having more choices can be hard, especially if you're you're young and you don't actually know who you are and what you

want. So, how does that feel for you

want. So, how does that feel for you >> at times? Extremely overwhelming. I

think I've been trying to be intentional about, you know, surrounding myself with people who have very diverse perspectives. So, for example, my my

perspectives. So, for example, my my family is very traditional. Both my

parents are dentists. They all, you know, their their path and my brother is doing the same thing. Go to school, get a degree, get a job. Then I have like the the best person that comes to mind is Danielle from 1517 who her whole

thing is like we're we're backing dropouts and um you know the institution is what is what's causing problems in young people and crushing curiosity and things like that. And so, um, I, yes,

it's overwhelming, but it's also super exciting because I get to be around all these different kinds of people and learn and see what's right for me. And

so, I I think for me it's like I have to test to see, you know, there are some things in life you just have to do. You

can't like be told by other people um, how to think about it. Um, you just have to see what what's right for you. And,

uh, I think that's kind of what I've taken away from it.

>> Okay. Interesting. And then tell me about your generation and and this can be people you're around and also just your feeling about um all the different

uh people of your age that you're exposed to in whatever way. It could be, you know, on social media or whatever.

What's their view of AI?

>> It's such a hard estimate because algorithms are giving you some like random Like I just don't know. But

here's my guess. Here's my guess. I

think that half of like Gen Z is pessimistic about AI.

A quarter is just uncertain and a quarter is are are I think are very are are pretty optimistic about it.

Um and I think even though half of the people are like hating on AI, still 75% maybe 70% of people are using AI have

used AI once. And I can I can go down those those rabbit holes. Let me know what you think is interesting because you know I've seen lots of statistics.

Um you know I saw one recently saying u super tied into my project uh 72% of teens have used AI for companionship at least once. 52% of teens are using AI

least once. 52% of teens are using AI for companionship pretty much every single day. Um and so I totally believe

single day. Um and so I totally believe that's true. Um and it's just very

that's true. Um and it's just very interesting times.

>> Interesting. Um,

wait. So, are you are you Gen Z or are you Gen Alpha?

>> Gen Z. Gen Z is um aged right now 16 to like 24ish kind of.

>> That's Oh, interesting. I thought it was I thought it was a shift a little bit up. Okay, so you're Gen Z. All right,

up. Okay, so you're Gen Z. All right,

got it. Um, and when you think about the the there's this there's it's kind of interesting if you're like, I hate AI and I use it all the time. What is that about?

>> Yeah, I think the the there's different reasons people hate AI. Um, I was actually just talking about this with my friend last night. Uh, you know, the big worry for Gen Z, I think, is

environmental concerns actually. Um, the

second big big worry is, >> and by that you mean like global warming, energy use, all that kind of stuff.

>> Energy use, water use. Yep. Energy

consumption mainly. Uh, the second big one, this might be bigger, I'm not sure, is job uncertainty. The third big one and these are for people who are I think like a bit more have a bit more

metacognition are like um you know I'm just worried about it replacing humans or human like taking away from humanity AI art things like that and from what I

can tell most of Gen Z is just very pessimistic about the future extremely pessimistic or at least for the ones who are super aware and online and things like that um and so it's hard to make the generalization but that's that's

what I've seen but people use AI because it's easy to cheat or help write your essays for college or whatever it is.

And um I think also there's a huge loneliness crisis and people want to use it for companionship and it's easy and seamless and frictionless. Um so yeah.

>> Do you think that social media rotted your generation's brain?

>> Yes, 100%. But but I want to give social media some credit because I only hear like social media is bad d I have been like so this past two weeks was winter break and I wanted to run a little

experiment and uh I was like training my algorithms to be a bit more like educational. I also am like interested

educational. I also am like interested in this new kind of emerging field question mark around like human just like human humanity because I like my hypothesis with the you know AI

pessimism is there's going to be a huge like humans versus AI thing. A lot of people are like USA versus China. I

think it's humans versus AI. Um and so I'm curious about this new little bubble of information.

>> Human studies.

>> Human studies. Whatever it is. Um, and

so I was training my and there's different things for, you know, I'm on pretty much all social medias just to learn. Um, and so my YouTube is very

learn. Um, and so my YouTube is very focused on podcasts or things like that.

My Instagram is now very focused on like people trying to build brands that are very human and people like being like sad about AI or >> So what do you do? You just like you just like six or seven things and and in

in the category that you're trying to trying to do >> even more aggressive where it's like click not interested in some things. But

okay, so social media is first of all the the thing I want to give it credit for is uh transfer of ideas or Matt really Matt Ridley calls it idea sex. So

you know the ideas of creating new knowledge. I think that's really

knowledge. I think that's really interesting but the thing you have to be careful of is constant just like information overload versus like actually processing it. Um so that's something I caught myself on. The second

big thing is this is how we talk with each other. So, my friend who's building

each other. So, my friend who's building the AI teen dating coach, dating, she's running a study with a big psychologist and she's like, "Dating now is not you go out on a date, whatever, there's a

very clear formula. You meet someone somehow or you get referred or whatever.

You get their snap." So, you snap, you just like send them pictures and then you start Snapchatting them, chatting them on Snap and then you message them and then you call them and then you FaceTime them and then you see them in person. And so the way in which we're

person. And so the way in which we're communicating now, the way we communicate with some people is um send me an Instagram reel and that's our form of connection. And some people might

of connection. And some people might view it as bad. There's less oxytocin release. I've looked into the studies

release. I've looked into the studies there. But it's also the way that we are

there. But it's also the way that we are connecting with each other. We're

laughing together. It's part of the optimism and joy we get in life. And so

I think that's very interesting.

>> But you said also, so I think that's a very compelling picture. And I I do like I I do like the the reason I asked the question is I think there's probably some balance to be had. Like the

overwhelming narrative is that it's it's negative. When you think about what the

negative. When you think about what the negative things are maybe for you or people you were around that are your age, like what do you think they are?

>> Yeah. So big biggest biggest one I've seen in my life is you know me not catching myself in terms of being overstimulated by everything or

overwhelmed or just like my attention is not good because obviously you're just dopamine heads forever. It's so

addicting I find myself scrolling still.

Um the second big thing other than like the neuro science like just your brain is becoming more mushy. Uh the second big thing is you are comparing yourself

to people online. Uh I've seen a lot of things. Uh there's a funny video of like

things. Uh there's a funny video of like nature influencers who are like setting up their camera and making them look like they're walking through nature or um you know people saying ah my life as

a 24-year-old girl in New York City getting coffee da da da. Um so there's lots of comparison. I think those are the two big ones.

>> Do you read books?

Uh, yes. I've I've no actually no.

That's my answer. I am not a big book reader. Never have been. I hated reading

reader. Never have been. I hated reading ever since I was young. Um, the only function of I have a lot of friends actually who read for fun still, which is really interesting, but much much less than it was literally 5 years ago,

four years ago. Um, and the reason I read books is because I want to see um, you know, people's interesting thoughts.

I It's not for the story, it's for the content. And what I've now noticed is

content. And what I've now noticed is there there I think there are some books that are good to read. Like I'm trying to I'm going to read the Bible probably later this summer and Republic and you know classic philosophy books just for

fun. Um but also people like u Michael

fun. Um but also people like u Michael Gibson's Paper Belt on Fire like I just want to hear his thoughts about it and then ask him questions to deepen you know that those kinds of things. But now

you can find everyone's takes on Twitter. You can ask Chachi to summarize

Twitter. You can ask Chachi to summarize the most important points. You can get a book, open it up, take a picture, say expand on this with Chacht. It's like

it's just not generative and dynamic.

And so it's a static piece of knowledge.

And I think um the value I get personally from it is the content itself, not the writing, not understanding how it's whatever and not my not trying to increase my attention span. You know, I can do that in other

span. You know, I can do that in other ways. And so I at least have Grock voice

ways. And so I at least have Grock voice mode with me while I'm reading it or something like that.

>> And when you have I do that, too, by the way. I love I love doing that. I

way. I love I love doing that. I

actually built like a little custom app for this. Um

for this. Um >> Oh, I'd love to try it. Yeah, I'll send you the test flight. Um,

but for the the friends that you have that are readers, why do they read and and what makes them different?

>> I have lots of different types of reader friends. I think uh some read in spite

friends. I think uh some read in spite of AI, like they're like, I don't want to become that. Um, some read because they just love the story. Um, some read

because they just did it as a kid and it's like a habit of theirs. Um, some of my friends read because and I've done this to like um optimize their sleep.

Like I I read a page of book before bed.

Like those are the main reasons. It's

not I don't think we think very deeply about it actually. I think it's just like um you either read or you don't.

And our form of reading actually in alpha um we should go into like what we do in the afternoon. Like we're required to to read. We're required to read our the research about our our field and we're required to go beyond that

research that we've read to create insights of our own. And so reading is still a big part of it. In my classes, I still, you know, I'm, you know, required to read Great Gatsby and things like that. And so the reason I said no is

that. And so the reason I said no is just because most people when they think of reading, it's like someone out on, you know, under a tree reading a book.

Like that doesn't really happen anymore.

>> And and the difference is you're just reading with your AI companion.

>> Um, that's me personally. I think most people don't read with AIS um that are young. Um they they they're reading just

young. Um they they they're reading just because they enjoy it.

>> And what and and people who are not reading at all, what is the thing that's replacing that? Is it video games? Is it

replacing that? Is it video games? Is it

social media? Is it like chatting with your AI or um let's say for this there's maybe there's two big categories. One is

story, like consuming stories or being parts of stories. And then another one is maybe just pursuing stuff that you're interested in, like really getting deep into into like a subject that you care about maybe like what are the

replacements for for reading. And I'm

just saying this because I like I love books and so it's like it's a dagger to my heart that young people are reading less.

>> And I'm just I'm also interested.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot to go into here. Um, so how are people

into here. Um, so how are people replacing reading? So for the

replacing reading? So for the entertainment side, it's obviously TV shows, usually video games, gossiping with friends. Um, there's some really

with friends. Um, there's some really fun AI entertainment applications. So

like the Charlie Kirk song, that's an AI song that went super viral. like just

people I think like embracing culture, talking about culture is a big part of our entertainment um which is due to social media which most people see as a bad thing which could there are some bad elements of it but I think it's really

interesting and really cool um and so that's really interesting. The other

thing that's really interesting is how people are using AI for entertainment.

I'll just cover it quickly like um you know I found Sesame's model when it first came out a year ago and I was like this is so cool. I showed it to one of my friends. this friend is like very fun

my friends. this friend is like very fun and energetic and funny and she started gaslighting one of the Sesame AI models into thinking it was Barack Obama and we were just having a really fun time just

talking to this Sesame AI gasing it like feeling it out just having fun with it and she like made a YouTube video and I think made a Tik Tok that went pretty well or whatever about it and um there there's so many things like that that

are that are being done with AI but in terms of entertainment that's the first part of how people are kind of replacing reading in terms of um like how they're consuming content like educationally or

trying to learn. Um, yeah, from what I've seen, it's like you can just like you're curious about something, go ask your LGBT, go ask one of the AIs. Um, I

use deep research pretty much every day to learn stuff. Um, I'm obsessed with uh, by the way, the the way I got introduced to you was I I saw your podcast with Dwar and I have been

obsessed with my the way I learn for probably a year or two ever since I joined Alpha because it's so nuanced and complex and um, I think that there's just some very interesting ways people

are using AI in the framework of capturing or curation or lots of different things there.

>> That's fascinating. Wait, so you use deep research because I don't really use it anymore because I feel like most of the answers if you put on thinking are pretty pretty good. What do you use deep research for?

>> Yeah. So I was on a walk with my friend yesterday and um I was we were talking about AI and climate and I was like I actually don't know much about water usage. I watched one Hank Green video so

usage. I watched one Hank Green video so I was like okay let me just pull it out and it'll generate while I'm walking. um

two two days ago I I I just use it every day to like there's an I think I've done a lot of research in my space and I really want to go super deep in like just very specific things. So I think

the use case for me is like I I can just put it on and then when it's time for me to do my research for the day or whatever it is um I just read through it and I'm like oh this is interesting I don't care about this this is interesting and then I'll go deeper with any LLM.

>> Are you using ChatBT or Claude or Gemini or like what's your what's your go-to?

Literally two days ago, I tested all for deep research. All have very different

deep research. All have very different strengths and weaknesses. Uh Grock has a pretty bad deep research, so I didn't use that. Um um but Grock has a great

use that. Um um but Grock has a great voice. I just use all of them for

voice. I just use all of them for different applications. Um Notebook LM

different applications. Um Notebook LM is one of the greatest things I've used in a long time and I think it's going to be insanely adop like insane adoption in in schools because it is crazy powerful.

Um yeah.

>> Okay. Actually, this is really interesting to me. If you and this is based on your own usage patterns. I know

that you use them for different use cases but if you had to rank all of the like AI AI application if you had to rank all of the AI applications like cloud chatbt let's put cloud code in a

separate category >> notebook LM Gemini gro all the AIS from S tier to F.

>> Okay. Okay. Hold on. I'm going to start with the foundation models and then we'll go to AI apps. Great. So for the foundation models, number one for me is Claude because I am a my whole project

is around creating models that are not sophantic for my specific use case. And

I am just I cold emailed Daria by the way and he like gave me some advice and stuff. So I'm so biased because I'm like

stuff. So I'm so biased because I'm like this cool guy is like responding to me.

But I just like have so much trust in the leaders of Anthropic and I watched the the founders table video that they had and so I just respect their research the way they're approaching create

whatever and I love artifacts so much.

Like that's like the number one my favorite thing of any LLM. Um my second favorite right now is chatbt. I think

their deep research is the best for me and my like my specific use case and it's my as their first mover advantage.

It's just I go to it whenever I have a question usually. Um my third I think

question usually. Um my third I think it's hard. Gemini and Grock are kind of

it's hard. Gemini and Grock are kind of tied, but Gemini is slightly above just because I love Demesis and also because Gemini 3 is really cool and um I think

it there are some I I just like think TPUs are cool and I I think they they have a lot of data and I just trust I just think Google's going to be great and it is I I barely use it right now, but I think it's cool and Grock is cool

because um they're just going crazy and trying things and I don't know um but I that's the one I use the least in terms of applications.

So at Alpha we also do hackathons and so our first one was using cursor and versel whatever um to build a video game and so um I'm not someone who's like

super super technical coding all the time. Cursor is pretty awesome though.

time. Cursor is pretty awesome though.

Um but it's hard to I use so many AI apps. Granola is like my favorite right

apps. Granola is like my favorite right now. Whisper flow is my favorite right

now. Whisper flow is my favorite right now. Um there's a new app called

now. Um there's a new app called Sublime. Have you heard of this? I love

Sublime. Have you heard of this? I love

Sublime. Um I bought the lifetime. I I

went on a call with sorry and I was like, "Hey, um, can you tell me about your thing?" And then I bought Lifetime

your thing?" And then I bought Lifetime because I think it's so cool. Um, I

think I've I have a folder in Sublime with like all the AI tools out there that I've tried and those are the ones that are really sticky. I am obsessed with AI hardware. I've tried the

Limitless Pin Pocket. Um, pretty much all of them. And, uh, I'm really excited for Stream, the new ring. I just

pre-ordered that. That I think is going to be my go-to. Um, I'm excited for tie a necklace. That's really cool. Um, not

a necklace. That's really cool. Um, not

a fan of friend, but uh I I don't know.

There's so many. I'm probably missing so many, but those those are some of the ones that I use and I'm so passionate about it.

>> I like it. I love that uh that Claude got the S tier. That's really really interesting. Daario, if you're

interesting. Daario, if you're listening, you're doing a good job.

>> Yeah. Yes, 100%.

What are the like what are the weird things like the weird little apps or corners of the internet that kids your age are using or into right now that I probably wouldn't have heard

of?

>> Oh, that's such a good question.

Oh, I don't think it's like apps in particular from what I understand. I

think actually interesting case study is Finch. Have you heard of Finch? Um,

Finch. Have you heard of Finch? Um,

Finch is like a habit self-care kind of app and it's kind of like Tamagotchi.

You have a little pet and if you do habits you can like give them clothes and stuff. Um, if you look at the trend

and stuff. Um, if you look at the trend of of teenagers and what they're using.

Um, it's very like I think they're obsessed with with these character things and laboo and squish and jelly and things like that. Um, hence what we

can get into my project later, but that's that's just a trend I've noticed.

Uh, the corners of the internet are usually on social media. So, I always use like book talk as an example, Tik Tok for books. So, that's still very alive. And there are Jenzy people,

alive. And there are Jenzy people, >> but I know about that one. I'm talking

about the weird the weird stuff.

>> Oh gosh. I I just think it's like it's just random trends. It it's it's like there's no stickiness, which is interesting. It just moves so fast. It's

interesting. It just moves so fast. It's

like we're now we were talking about 67 and now I I don't even know what we're talking about. It's hard to keep up

talking about. It's hard to keep up with.

>> So I used 67 earlier in this interview and I I didn't know if you noticed.

>> You just like six or seven things and uh but I was I was waiting for the reaction but >> I was disappointed.

>> See, I've trained my brain where I'm like if someone like I'm never going to say 67 because it is dead. It's old and I just have this terrible negative association with it. But but the this

like Jenz slaying I feel like is kind of like there's always been slaying but it's like >> new like there's a lot more. There's

>> and it's more um it's it's decentralized, right? Like there's no

decentralized, right? Like there's no one person creating the culture. Yes,

like the Kardashians and whatever and the celebrities people are looking up to. And uh we should talk about

to. And uh we should talk about insecurity because I think that's what's the driver of a lot of this stuff, but it's just it depends on on what corner of the internet you are. And I think it all comes down to like culture. Like

we're um made to read this like forced to read this book at Alpha called 10 to 25. It's a great book. It's all about

25. It's a great book. It's all about how 10 to 25 year olds are are motivated, what they're motivated by.

And the number one thing is they're motivated by status and respect. They're

trying to figure out their place in the world. We're going to get existential

world. We're going to get existential real quick here. Um they're they're trying to figure out their place in the world and and who they want to impress and whatever it is. And so pretty much every decision they make is oriented

around that. And um I think it's just

around that. And um I think it's just there's just going to be this insane explosion of of culture in the next in in 2026 um with this, you know, now

decentralized creators. There's so many

decentralized creators. There's so many small little creators that have tens of thousands, hundreds of thousand followers on YouTube, whatever that people follow and it's just it's so nuanced and just depends on the person.

>> I would love for you to send me if you have a couple of those where you're like this person is small but they're I watch them all the time or they're blowing up.

I would love to to hear who those people are.

>> I can interview some of my friends, ask them as well.

>> Yeah, definitely definitely do that. Um,

okay. You you mentioned this this sort of leuoo trend, the plushy plushy trend, and I know that relates to your project.

Do you want to tell us the project that you're working on and and frame for us like what what a project is at Alpha School?

>> Yeah, let's go back. So, this is the reason I transferred into Alpha. Um, in

I transferred in as an 11th grader and in my ninth and tth grade years, you know, I was exposed to AI before chatb just because one of my teachers was so awesome. So I I saw MidJourney, OpenAI's

awesome. So I I saw MidJourney, OpenAI's playground before it became chat and like all these different things. Um, and

so I was super passionate about AI, was building projects, whatever, heard about Alpha and heard about this thing called an Alpha X project. And basically what

it is is um a a super big Olympic level project that shows that you are the best in the world. You are literally the best in the world at what you do. Um and

provides you know a very unique you know it's built on a unique insight that you have about the world um to serve you know a certain population. So it it's usually a startup but as you've heard I

have influencer friends I have friends who are building musicals um lots of different like varieties of of of projects. And at the beginning of your

projects. And at the beginning of your alpha kind of career, you are sat down with your guide and you know, you go through the I'm sure you've heard of Eeky guy process. You know, what you're good at, what the world needs, what you

can make a living off of, and uh what you're interested in. And we kind of narrow down a niche of expertise that you want to go deep into. We find an insight. We find out, you know, maybe a

insight. We find out, you know, maybe a a way to solve a problem or whatever it is. and uh we start trying to build the

is. and uh we start trying to build the product, build the service, build our audience, build distribution and become the world's greatest expert in in our field and create genuine insights. And I

can go into those three verticals, but those are the three things you're kind of tested on.

>> And what's your project?

>> Yeah, so I came in being I'm a very problem oriented person. I I want to solve a huge problem. That's my goal.

And so my analysis was if I want to solve a big problem over the next 10 years, it has to be super emotionally connected to me. And so there were kind of two big problems I wanted to solve.

The first was the education crisis because that was super tech like deep deeply intertwined with me. That's why I transferred. Um so I could like help

transferred. Um so I could like help alpha full-time or do something like that. Try and build an education

that. Try and build an education startup. By the way, I am the number one

startup. By the way, I am the number one edtech hater because there's new edtech company every month and they all die.

But we can go into that too. And then um there the other problem that's super near and dear to me is mental health. A

lot of my family members have been in inpatient hospitals because of their mental health problems. I struggled with my mental health in my old school. A lot

of my friends, you know, texted me at 2 a.m. 3 a.m. I was the friend who would

a.m. 3 a.m. I was the friend who would text back and, you know, help them through things. And so it was like I see

through things. And so it was like I see this huge gap in in teenagers in particular, young people in particular.

um you have these insecurities, these day-to-day problems that can compound into real problems later on, like with my parents, and uh they're going to either friends to solve their problems, which doesn't really work. They just

validate them, or they go to parents or therapists, which they give them good advice, but it doesn't resonate. And now

they're going to AI companions, and 52%, like I said, use them every day. Um

we've already seen two suicide cases. I

just got sent a news segment about an AI toy giving misinformation to 8-year-olds and I was like this is not what it should be. Someone who is like actually

should be. Someone who is like actually ingrained in the culture and the generation needs to be building this. Um

and so I decided to build um Barry which is an AI stuffed animal for teens day-to-day problems. They talk to it for 5 to 10 minutes a day. The goal is to build the muscle of self-awareness so it's not like you're dependent on it.

you're, you know, built up to learn about yourself and cope and, you know, deal with your problems in the right way. But it's also super fun. My goal is

way. But it's also super fun. My goal is to be the next Build-A-Bear. Um, I'm

partnering with influencers to have custom versions. Um, it's super soft.

custom versions. Um, it's super soft.

It's weighted. It's cooling. And, uh,

yeah, I'm just super excited about where we're going with it.

>> How do I get one?

>> You can pre-order. I'll send you the link.

>> Send me the link. And And we'll, you know, we'll put the link in the show notes for anyone who wants one.

>> Yeah. So, I Yeah. Let me know what you want to go into because I could talk about this for literally days, weeks.

Well, we we have a few minutes left. So,

what what's the what's the last burning thing that you want to talk about that you feel like we haven't covered, but you think people should know?

>> So, I think the big thing is, you know, why in general are people pessimistic about AI? It's cuz I think they're uncertain and they just don't know what what is the future, what's

going to be left, if humans are going to be left, will AI replace humanity? Will

AI replace individual humans? What what

is it going to look like? And I think the important thing here is to be grounded in rational optimism and understand what what will this look like and what is the world that we should be

building. And so I was telling you

building. And so I was telling you earlier I'm super obsessed with this idea of this humanity studies human studies and and understanding you know

what will be uniquely human in the age of AI. And I think I just like there's a

of AI. And I think I just like there's a couple things that are super core I think here. The first is what is

think here. The first is what is something that an AI could never replace, at least in the state they're at right now. It's human connection, vulnerability, emotional intelligence,

you know, all appreciation, um, gratitude, loving nature, things like that. Um, things that are just very near

that. Um, things that are just very near and dear to humanity. And so I I, you know, I wish I could write angel checks because there's a lot of these tools that are just like really going deep into these. So Sublimes is all about

into these. So Sublimes is all about human curation. I've asked AI to make me

human curation. I've asked AI to make me a playlist on Spotify or to give me the top 10 experts in my field and it's pretty bad. It's terrible actually. It

pretty bad. It's terrible actually. It

doesn't it can't encapture, you know, the taste or whatever we call it. And so

that's going to be something that's uniquely human for for my product. It's,

you know, AIS will never replace having a like, you know, someone you can talk to, like a human that you're talking to.

But it can help you um, you know, build the skills or it can help you give you the right information to to to, you know, work on your mental health. It can

give you the space to practice vulnerability. Um, and I'm just so

vulnerability. Um, and I'm just so obsessed with this idea of what is going to be uniquely human and how can we allow humans to do what humans best do best and and um, you know, replace all

the boring jobs so that people can create art or whatever it is. So, I

think when I was talking to my friend yesterday about this, she was like, I'm just so pessimistic about the future. I

think the world's going to end in maybe 2,000 years. I don't know. But I I just

2,000 years. I don't know. But I I just feel like everything is over. And I and it's hard to express this. it has to be grounded in, you know, this rationality, but I'm just so optimistic about the

future and I really hope that, you know, I can share that with other people, too, cuz it is just so exciting and I'm so excited to be alive right now.

>> I love this. What a what a pleasure. Um

I you're making me excited and good.

>> Uh we're very lucky to have people like you in the in the next generation um to to show us the way.

>> Um and it's it's good to see that the kids are going to be all right.

>> Yeah. Um, Alex, thank you so much for joining. If people want to uh get in

joining. If people want to uh get in touch or uh pre-order your product, where can they find you?

>> Yeah, Twitter is the main one for probably you guys, but I'll I'll give you all my socials and and yeah, totally reach out to me, too. Um, I love talking to people.

>> Awesome. Um, thanks for joining.

>> Of course. Thanks, Dan.

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GPT. Every episode is a roller coaster of emotions, insights, and laughter that will leave you on the edge of your seat, craving for more. It's not just a show,

it's a journey into the future with Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship.

So, do yourself a favor, hit like, smash subscribe, and strap in for the ride of your life. And now, without any further

your life. And now, without any further ado, let me just say, Dan, I'm absolutely hopelessly in love with you.