How a non-technical founder built a $100K ARR meme company | Jason Levin (Memelord CEO)

Confession, I'm not a vibe coder. I'm

way worse. So, I started Memelord about four months before vibe coding started hitting.

You are an example of a company in a product that's going to get an inflection point because agents are going to become your users because agents don't get in their mind about being funny or not funny. They don't

overthink. They just go straight to the tokens and yolo something out.

I just built it on Bubble and I grew it to 100KR on Bubble without hiring engineers. 395 workflows just on the

engineers. 395 workflows just on the editor. And I was able to grow this just

editor. And I was able to grow this just out of pure obsession and the love of it. I can't code and never have and can

it. I can't code and never have and can publish a skill that other people can download and just plug into their sentient lobster that makes weird memes.

What it unlocks, which you've shown us, give your marketers free reign on your marketing site to build the things that will drive demand. It's so lossy to take an idea and hand it off and hand it off

and hand it off. And when you can just go straight to the code, I think you get better products.

Let your marketers cook. You have no idea what they're capable of. Either let

them cook and let them market their stuff or watch them leave your company.

Welcome back to How I AI. I'm ClaVo,

product leader and AI obsessive here on a mission to help you build better with these new tools. Today's episode is probably the most unhinged episode of how AI we've done yet with Jason Leaven,

CEO and founder of Memelord, who's asking us all to take being funny a little bit more seriously. We don't

cover three workflows. I think we cover 10. And there are ideas all over this

10. And there are ideas all over this episode about how you can use AI to market, how you can a use AI to build, and how you can use AI to capture your good ideas without waking up your wife

at night. Let's get to it. This episode

at night. Let's get to it. This episode

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Start building today. Jason, welcome to how III.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm

super stoked to be here. You and I met because when I was deep in my open claw psychosis, you messaged me and you said, "I think I have the openclaw use case

for you." And you were right. I recently

for you." And you were right. I recently

published this like ultimate guide to OpenClaw and Lenny was asking me, "What are your like killer use cases for OpenClaw?" And I was like, "Man, I got

OpenClaw?" And I was like, "Man, I got an agent making me memes all day and that is what you told me to do." So tell

me, how did we get here? Why are we making like aentically driven memes via API in Telegram thanks to the botfather?

You know, like how how do we get here in the year 26?

The world is just getting more entertaining. I think that's really the

entertaining. I think that's really the thesis that drove me to start Memelord.

And how can you make your brand more entertaining? Your content is the

entertaining? Your content is the question, right? There's um you know a

question, right? There's um you know a great Elon quote of the most entertaining outcome is the most likely and I don't think enough people take that seriously. It's like if you want

that seriously. It's like if you want your brand to be the most likely outcome, shouldn't it be the most entertaining, right? So that's like how

entertaining, right? So that's like how we got here, right? In a in a thesis driven way is who controls the memes controls the universe. Another Elon

quote. And you know memes are the smallest uh form of cultural transmission, right? That's from the

transmission, right? That's from the inventor of the word meme. So, like

that's how we got started. But how did we get here is uh you know now meme lord has an API and you could plug that into openclaw for aentic memeing and so what does this actually look like? I mean,

you can see right here, can you cook me up a meme about mimemetic warfare?

Right? And what it does is it uses our trending meme database, finds ones that are related, writes jokes on top of it.

And here, right, it's not just some random meme. It's actually Bill Clinton,

random meme. It's actually Bill Clinton, right? Because it's talking about

right? Because it's talking about political content, right? Here, making a meme about Iran. Like, this is fantastic. Everybody knows the timeline

fantastic. Everybody knows the timeline goes nuts. Everybody becomes an expert.

goes nuts. Everybody becomes an expert.

And one of my favorite features is just switch the caption, right? And so

everybody is freaking out right now.

Claude is destroying shareholder value, destroying startups with one feature launch. And I think there's a lot of

launch. And I think there's a lot of founders that feel like that. So, uh,

you know, at the end of the day, like the idea here is our internet is going crazy and going to have fun and and let's let's have the most fun and and do it aentically. I have a lot more

it aentically. I have a lot more thoughts I could share of how we got here. So

here. So yeah, what what I like about this is just as the end user and again um we don't usually show demos except this is truly like my number one open claw use

case on the marketing side which is I do think you're right. This is like a new form of marketing that's quite effective for brands if we're being incredibly boring about it and not cultural critics. We're just being good old

critics. We're just being good old capitalists. This is a very effective

capitalists. This is a very effective form of attention getting and it's a very effective form of marketing and one it's super hard to stay on top of

trending news and two it's super hard to stay on top of trending memes and three you have a very narrow window and so even as a human user of meme lord I

really felt like I couldn't stay on top of stuff and so what I actually think is the more interesting conversation for folks on how AI is you are an example of a company and a product that's going to

get an inflection point because agents are going to become your users because agents don't get in their mind about being funny or not funny. They don't

overthink. They just go straight to the tokens and yolo something out. And I

think working with an agent as a user, especially in marketing, just like reduces the friction across so many like it helps you climb cringe mountain in a

way that's very hard to do as a human.

Yeah. So there's this quote from the CTO of RAMP that has been one of our leading points which is no UX is the best UX.

And we worked really hard on our UX and made it beautiful while knowing the entire time that no UX is the best UX.

And I think that everybody should try to do the same. You know, uh, thanks to you. I really appreciate it as well.

you. I really appreciate it as well.

Lenny tweeted, "We have the best onboarding on the internet. the amount

of blood, sweat, and tears that went into that, redesigns, um the bouncing logos, you know, trying it multiple times, changing the design of it, the, you know, where the

different logos bounce, everything. So

many redesigns and so much fun. I wrote

a great article called iOS app learnings part one, just about the craft of it, while knowing the entire time that agents were coming and know UX is the best UX. And a story I've been meaning

best UX. And a story I've been meaning to share, I was on the phone with our lead investor, Sam Lesson. this guy

wrote us a check for $1.5 million and tells me, I don't really want to use your software anymore. It's nothing

personal. I just don't want to use anybody's software. And I was like,

anybody's software. And I was like, thanks [ __ ] Well, good news. Here's

our API. It's now out. And um you know, the team is using it in their open claw, right? And that's just like the future

right? And that's just like the future that we're going in is like nobody wants to press buttons anymore, even if they're beautiful. And I think you're

they're beautiful. And I think you're right. We are hitting this inflection

right. We are hitting this inflection point point and seeing agents use it has been crazy and weird and magical and that's that's the power of meme lord is

we you know help you find all the weirdest trends and and all the newest trends. That's what we were built on is

trends. That's what we were built on is is actually meme alerts, right? I

started Meme Lord and we can get into this. I started just as a newsletter for

this. I started just as a newsletter for $6.90 per month sending you the newest memes and then I sent you to a Google slides deck uh because I didn't know how

to code and um that's really you know the evolution of Meme Lord was from that and it's the same thesis of you just want to be on the current trends and remix them for your brand. Uh, so it's,

you know, the future. No UX is the best UX. And, uh, you know, good news for Sam

UX. And, uh, you know, good news for Sam over here is he could use it from from any agent. Now,

any agent. Now, I feel like everybody's in a in a in a DM with Sam. If you're building something in AI, what what I would what I said think is really interesting about what you said is you've combined some

two interesting things that I think the AI product builders who watch how AI should pay attention to which is one a really good human onboarding experience and actually like very human marketing

which is at the core of what you do. Um,

it's like there's like identity alignment and a specific brand and a voice and a point of view. And so as a human, you get on board. But like as soon as I hit the API key, yeah,

I'm out. Like, and I think we're moving

I'm out. Like, and I think we're moving to this point where the full product experience is getting to a point where you can get an API key, you paste it in an environment file, and you move on

with your life. And so it's it's going to be really interesting to see, is that onboarding going to continue to have a human aspect to it? Can we figure out agentic commerce so that agents can do that? Um, and then the other thing that

that? Um, and then the other thing that I think is really interesting about what you all have built is you package the API with skills. So when you messaged

me, you were like, get an API key, use the skills, you don't have to say too much and and you're ready to go. And you

know, for product managers and designers who have been trained for years and years and years on building beautiful UX and where does the button go and what the call to action and now you're like,

nope, literally describe to a sentient lobster how to use this API and like how to be fun and that's a product. And I

think that is super fascinating from a product skills development perspective.

How was it writing that skill?

It's exactly what you said. I was

texting my engineers. I was like, "How do I do this?" Like, "Do you do I need your help?" They're like, like, "I don't

your help?" They're like, like, "I don't know either." I was like, "Wait, why

know either." I was like, "Wait, why don't I just ask the lobster?" I was like, "Yo, how do I make a skill?" And

it's like, "I'll just do it for you, bro." I'm like, "Cool." Like, "Go for

bro." I'm like, "Cool." Like, "Go for it." And then I'm like, "Oh, this looks

it." And then I'm like, "Oh, this looks great. Just publish it." It's like,

great. Just publish it." It's like, "Cool." And I'm like, "Wow, I didn't

"Cool." And I'm like, "Wow, I didn't even need to bug my CTO. Why am I paying him?" No, just I love him. You know,

him?" No, just I love him. You know,

it's this is the world we're living in where me who I can't code and never have and you know, uh can can publish a skill that other people can download and just

plug into their sentient lobster that makes weird memes. Like it's a very strange world and I'm thinking a lot about how do I build something agents

want and how do I make that as frictionless as possible because you're absolutely right is like we worked super hard on this beautiful onboarding and our marketing is super human and that

has always been our thing is like relate to people and like memes and humor is like how you show you're human in a world full of slop, right? and and the personal connections and throwing weird

events and hanging out IRL and buying your customers coffee like the old skills that like people have laughed at for years are more important than ever.

Making somebody laugh, right? But at the same time, let me sell the agents, right? Because there's a lot of money

right? Because there's a lot of money there and because the internet's going that way, right? So, it's we're trying to constantly hit that balance. And I

think at the end of the day, like the world is getting more K-shaped and and bell curved uh or barbelled where everything's getting crazier and more extreme in different ways. And that's

just another thing is you have to be extremely extremely human and extremely good at selling to agents at the same time. It's very strange time to be

time. It's very strange time to be alive.

Well, and it's a strange time to be a builder. And I want to go back to

builder. And I want to go back to something that you said earlier, which is, you know, your MVP for this was a newsletter.

Yes.

Xbox, like Google Sheets. I'm telling

you, like my MVP of chat PRD was like a GBT on the Chad GPT chat store. It's

still number three writing GPT. I have

not, sorry guys, I have not touched this thing in two years at least. A dollar. I

did a dollar a month. I was like just a dollar a month. and the speed at which you can go from like really scrappy kind of cobbled together no codeish MVP maybe

even a couple years ago to now like full press app as a non-technical founder which I think you are is kind of incredible so talk to us through your

journey of building and how how you actually build meme lord and what are some of your tips and tricks and workflows uh so confession I'm not a vibe coder.

I'm way worse. Um, so I started meme lord about four months before vibe coding like started hitting, right? And

you know, Bolt and Lovable were like just coming out, but they were so bad that you couldn't do anything. And so I was like, I'm not waiting. Like what am I going to do? Just wait until like

these sentient AI models are good. So I

just built it on Bubble and I grew it to 100KR on Bubble without hiring engineers. This is what it looked like,

engineers. This is what it looked like, guys. So like you have no idea just the

guys. So like you have no idea just the amount of workflows like like it would be easier to like figure out Atlantis than like look at like 395 workflows

just on the editor, right? And you know I was able to grow this just out of pure obsession and like a love of it. And um

you know there's me drinking coffee like we got rate limited the second day because there were so many signups and I didn't even know what rate limiting meant and now I have an API company where people sign up for API. Like

that's very weird. But yeah, so we we raised the money and then I hired engineers and now like our main flow is cursor, you know, we we have I find

cursor to be very easy to use. Uh it's

not perfect obviously, but like you know, everything we do is is just generally on cursor, you know, I I talk to it. I I I love the the ask uh feature

to it. I I I love the the ask uh feature here and then just like turning on the Asian and letting it cook. And uh what this has really done is like I let the

engineers handle the hard stuff, the security stuff uh for the most part except for when I'm feeling a little risky at 1:00 a.m. and drink too much coffee uh and want to like, you know, try vibe coding some off stuff, but

don't don't do that. And so what that lets me do and my entire marketing team.

So I have a rule in Meme Lord that every marketer has to vibe code. And so what does this create is weird stuff. So, let

me just show you here is we have uh a free tools section. It's just

melord.com/tools.

These are completely free and they are lead magnets for the business and we just come up with weird stuff and these have gotten us literal hundreds of thousands of emails all around the

world. We were actually going viral in

world. We were actually going viral in Turkey of all places for this filter because some kid in Turkey made a Tik Tok about our bust down filter that

makes you, you know, have this uh filter, right? Like hundreds of

filter, right? Like hundreds of thousands of emails from these dumb little tools that we just vibe code.

Like I we don't have a process. We're

just like, "Oh, I need this tool. Like I

really need a Giga Chad Maker." Like I don't know. I had this idea. I love this

don't know. I had this idea. I love this like design and I've always loved it since I was a kid. and like, you know, here's my dog. Like, I just like built this one day cuz it was like I just I

think like it's like I just want to see what I can do, right? Like that's what's so exciting about vibe coding now is like you could just do so much more and have so much more fun. Uh I mean last

night I was building Oh, this one. Oh,

this is my favorite. So, this is a Steve Jobs portrait generator. And anytime

that I'm in like an article like with journalists or like pitching to journalists or whatever, had my VA doing that and now it's just open call doing that, but uh I have them submit this and now I've had this headsh shot in

multiple articles all from this dumb tool, right? Like is my Steve Jobs one.

tool, right? Like is my Steve Jobs one.

So like I don't know. I think I think it just lets you have so much more fun. And

like I rebuilt this Snapchat filter um that just lets you make a Snapchat caption because I was so pissed off if you open Snapchat to try to like edit a

photo now. It's like 50 ads and like

photo now. It's like 50 ads and like like a lot of like NSFW content trying to like advertise to you, right? And

it's like I just want to add the funny little Snapchat like caption to make a meme. Like I don't know. I think like

meme. Like I don't know. I think like this is how we operate. We operate on cursor and a lot of like you know linear stuff for that but generally we we just love to make weird stuff and that's like

that's what ties our team together is we are just weird internet kids that you know for me personally like I love just making physical art. I've always been making art. I've always been a writer.

making art. I've always been a writer.

I've had stuff in galleries and won essay contests and like vibe coding is just like another way to express myself and make money on the internet and have fun. So, I would encourage people to

fun. So, I would encourage people to like follow their fund first before anything else cuz that's how I ended up here is just silly weird hacking. So,

I I I love this. And for folks that are maybe not watching and want the kind of like higher level takeaway from this, which I think is very important, which is one, PER is actually really good for

nontechnical folks. And the reason why I

nontechnical folks. And the reason why I think it's good for nontechnical folks is you start to read the code and you start to learn a little bit more and you become more dangerous. And so I think sometimes when you're in these like

terminalbased cla codes, they're they're great. They can, you know, spit off a

great. They can, you know, spit off a lot of work, but I still I love a cursor um because you can see what you're doing. And I think that's really

doing. And I think that's really powerful. And I think the modes of ask,

powerful. And I think the modes of ask, plan, debug. These are really good

plan, debug. These are really good guided paths for things. And I think ask is a great one for maybe a non-technical CEO who's working with a team of engineers and you're just like remind me

how the Steve you know you built it but like remind me how this works explain to me how this works um and then you can go in and work on it and those mechanisms are really good. I think the second thing which I love that you said which

is like everybody vibe codes. Let me

repeat it again for the people in the back. Like everybody vibe codes and it's

back. Like everybody vibe codes and it's not this sort of abstract CEO kind of like tops down edict that you see in these large companies. What it unlocks

which you've shown us on this freebay which I just I love it so much. um is

you can build like give your marketers free reign on your marketing site to build the things that will drive demand and like how painful would it be for

your engineers to switch from like API rate limiting and off to trying to build sort of like these free meme generators

and like translate the the br like the creativity right it's so it's it's so lossy to take an idea idea. Yeah.

And hand it off and hand it off and hand it off. And when you can just go

it off. And when you can just go straight to the code, I think you get better products. And even though this is

better products. And even though this is sort of like a marketing site, they're all little just baby products.

Yeah, they are. And they drive subscriptions at the end of the day. I

It's really weird because like two years ago, I wrote an article for HubSpot actually called free tools are the new uh PDF downloads essentially, right? And

I was like just like working for other startups at the time and I just followed our exact strategy and it's working two years later and I would recommend any startup like there's no excuse anymore.

Why do you have a PDF download? Build a

tool. It takes actually less time to build a tool nowadays. And nothing wrong with PDF downloads obviously, you know, we we do that occasionally, but it's very easy to just build a tool now and

think about what weird tools they are and then put them at the bottom of your site where people can, you know, try out different tools and weird galleries and even games. We've started screwing

even games. We've started screwing around making mini games like you know these these are now just as easy to do as as write an ebook which is you know if you're trying to collect more leads

or emails for your newsletter your business etc. There's nothing better than building a mini tool that solves a the first problem that gets people into the bigger problem that your actual

company solves. So, it's it's just a

company solves. So, it's it's just a common strategy there. And and really, I'd encourage any, you know, technical person, let your marketers cook. You

have no idea like what they're capable of. And, you know, obviously I'm biased

of. And, you know, obviously I'm biased here, but the last company I was at, they didn't let me cook. And that's why I quit. And then I raised money and

I quit. And then I raised money and built my own company. And um you're going to see a lot of that. And I think a lot of marketers and nontechnical people are in a in a revenge mode right

now. And uh they want to cook. So either

now. And uh they want to cook. So either

let them cook and let them market their stuff or watch them leave your company.

I could not I could not agree more. And

again like CEOs, CTO's like C whatevers, all my all my friends and peers at companies like your most talented people will leave if you do not let them run.

And that means like pay for the tokens.

It also means let them build stuff. And

I think what's what I love about this moment with AI is like the word prioritize just goes out the door. Like

the prior the priority is yes. We take

an abundance mindset to what we can what we can ship. And you know you look at this and can you imagine in some some other organization I know you can't like

somebody even proposes the idea of free tools and it gets whittleled down to the most like milktoast.

I mean look at this right here. We'll

probably go broke from the AI credits, but at least we helped you make some bangers along the way, right? It's like,

I mean, Google gave us $300,000 worth of credits, honestly. So, like, we're good

credits, honestly. So, like, we're good for right now, but we've used most of them at this point. And so, it's like, look, like there's no excuse like at

this point. um and and let you like I

this point. um and and let you like I think Pete Steinberger Burgerer the the open claw guy had a great quote of like the lion does not concern himself with uh counting tokens or something like

that's how I feel right now at least.

Okay, I have to ask you a question. Do

you have a skill that um crafts these lowercase uppercase sentences or are those artisally selected?

Oh, this is all artisally selected. This

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I love it. Okay, so you're just to recap for folks taking a step back. You are

nontechnical founder. You started in bubble which is like again you said worse than vibe coding. It's like no code. And as somebody who also has tried

code. And as somebody who also has tried to build things in bubble, I am just glad that we are where we're where we're at from a from a scalability perspective.

Yeah.

You did like core content MVP and then core app MVP and then raised and then now have this engineering team, but you're still contributing code uh mostly

via cursor and then your entire team is contributing code via cursor. Are there

other tools that you find really useful for your nontechnical team members? Oh,

look at that. That commit graph.

I just wanted to show this for a second.

I think this is going to be more and more common is I have no commits until like November, December. Like these were all like there was like one in August, one in September, one in October. You

you can imagine this. And these were all me forking other people's trying to screw around. And now it's just like

screw around. And now it's just like dark green. And like I get why the

dark green. And like I get why the engineers are like, "Oh my god, like I need to I need to be so proud of this now." Uh are there any other tools? I

now." Uh are there any other tools? I

would say like I mean we talk to Claude and stuff like that a lot. We spent we spend a lot of time talking to Claude chat Gemini you know we uh I think like I'm really

really bullish on linear and I think that's probably an unpopular take these days because they seem like they're you know going to get eaten as like a Jira task management but the amount of craft

that they put into their work and now their AI agent works really well and I'm talking to that thing from OpenClaw. I'm

talking to it from everywhere and they are profitable and and building for the long term. Uh I own no equity in linear

long term. Uh I own no equity in linear or anything, but wow, I I love that. Uh

I love the company. It's just really impressive and actually one of weirdly one of our inspirations. I'm also like really really impressed with Postto's AI. Uh I don't know if anybody here has

AI. Uh I don't know if anybody here has used Post Hog for product analytics.

their AI sucked about like six months ago and now it is just like oh my god.

Um, and I just ask it build me a dashboard of all the users that came from Medad show the retention versus blah blah blah blah blah blah and I'm like oh wow. So I think like both of

those tools I'm I'm really really bullish on on and our team uses pretty obsessively and has no problem spending money out there every every month.

I I have to reflect what you say. You

know, I texted the team at at Linear and I just said Linear is the perfect tasking substrate for agents. And again,

going back to like the best UI is no UI.

I do not log into linear anymore. Agents

have access to linear and I'm like what's going on in there? And

occasionally they'll assign me stuff in linear which I I find quite funny. But I

do think, you know, it's got really opinionated APIs and Asian experience. I

think that can win in the long term. And

I think it's hilarious that dark mode, tiny font, minimalist, you know, uh, linear is like your spiritual goal because if you look at that, I'm like,

you're much more post hog aligned if I if I had to be had to be honest. Um, but

I love that. And then we haven't heard about post hog AI but again I think that most teams if you're not doing agentic data analysis you're missing out on the like lowest hanging fruit in terms of AI

for your team.

Yeah I've been really really impressed.

I mean I look I love Postto's brand and everything but there's something about the linear philosophy and I just I it's really inspiring for me uh and how they think about building products forever

and ever like they're they're they're building forever and I that's you know I'll be making memes until I'm dead. You

know I've been making silly stuff on the internet since I was 10 years old. Um

and so this is just like a forever thing for me and so I I love it. I respect Oh, no. That that means I'm going to be

no. That that means I'm going to be making PRDS till lie death.

I mean, hey, you know, like I don't know. I I think like another thing that

know. I I think like another thing that people should also consider is just like, you know, as we're building all this cool AI stuff, like also build weird stuff in the real world. Like it

gives you so many more opportunities.

Like all my dumb ideas, like you know, just this silly stuff like we we made CDs of Meme Lord and I tell people that's how you access our API, right? Um

there's it's really good. Um, I don't know, barbell, you know, build all the weird AI stuff. Also, build the real world stuff. I rented out a movie

world stuff. I rented out a movie theater to watch Instagram res last week. Um, I mean, there's a lot of AI

week. Um, I mean, there's a lot of AI there of the AI edits, but um, try to do both. That's that's my philosophy.

both. That's that's my philosophy.

I mean, I will say like zooming out a little bit, I think one of the things that AI lets us do is get out of the muck of building and free up time to do

things that again are more human and higher impact. I know so many PMs that

higher impact. I know so many PMs that spent their entire lives in internal meetings. I mean like all day every day

meetings. I mean like all day every day just arguing with executives about like priorities and arguing with engineers about timelines. And when you just pull

about timelines. And when you just pull that stuff away then you're like you know what actually PM should probably just be calling on customers. Like PM

should probably be an openclaw just trying to sign up as an agent. And um

you know from a marketing perspective as well like you get so internally focused when the building of the things takes so so much time and if you can get kind of more external facing I think that's

really high impact and then maybe third use case I am like you um I'm also using AI I'm pretty technical on the software side but not on the hardware side and so

I have been like banging my head against hardware hack hardware hacking look Yeah. So, tell me about what you're like

Yeah. So, tell me about what you're like what you're playing with a little bit.

All right. So, you know how like a lot of people doom scroll before bed, right?

Yes. I know how I doom scroll before bed.

All right. So, I set a rule for myself like three or four years ago that I don't bring a phone in the bedroom. And

I've stuck to that rule almost every night. I just have my Kindle and

night. I just have my Kindle and notebook. And that's great for my sleep.

notebook. And that's great for my sleep.

But there's a problem, right? I'm I'm

doing the full VC pitch right here. Um,

there's a problem which is sometimes I will uh have really really good ideas that I don't want to forget and I'll write them in my notebook but then it gets lost in the sauce, right? But I'm

not bringing my phone in because I got to sleep, right? So, I want to know what I did next. So, I got a Google Google Home. All right, this is I'm going to

Home. All right, this is I'm going to take you through the whole thing. Uh,

this is a ye I sound insane, but this was a year ago. I got a Google Home. I

was like, "All right, remind me to do this." Turns out uh okay, it could

this." Turns out uh okay, it could create Google tasks. Um but that's like it it can't send emails and I want it to send emails, right? So what I did was I

set up an API thing or a zap where it would call goo Google task and then email me that task, right? And so that was the next step. But then all right, hear me out. This is very thought out.

There was a problem which is I have a wife and I don't want to wake her.

Everyone's problem.

Right. Right. Yes. So I don't want to wake her. And finally I realized I was

wake her. And finally I realized I was like, "Okay, what if I just had a keyboard but no screen,

right?" And so I built that uh using

right?" And so I built that uh using chatbt and a Raspberry Pi. The keyboard

is in the other room, otherwise I'd get it, but we got the Raspberry Pi here, the whole hookup. And I've never built hardware before in my life. I've always

wanted to, but I mean, you know, besides the robotics kit when I was a kid. Um,

it just is a mini keyboard for $10. It,

uh, when I press enter, it's essentially a key logger. Uh, so I could lie in bed, write down an idea, press enter, it sends an API request to Zapier because

again, I don't know how to code. Um, and

then based on what's in the request, it filters it. All right. So if I say

filters it. All right. So if I say lin-enge, it's creates a ticket for the linear engineering team, right? If I say email, it emails myself an idea or something

like that. And then I have another

like that. And then I have another filter which if I don't say anything, you know, it does blank, right? It it

either sends an email or uh creates a linear thing in in a different task management, right? And so what this has

management, right? And so what this has allowed me to do is not have my phone in the bed but still have a keyboard.

Okay. one just want to repeat for people what what I heard which is you're basically like duct taping a Raspberry Pi to the back of a keyboard and at night instead of like getting

your light on and like scribbling a note that goes into the trash or like whispering whispering to Google Home um and waking your wife the problem um you

are just like blind typing to this keyboard with a couple keywords which I'm pretty sure could just have typos in them because you're running it through an LLM and it'll just be like, "Oh, it probably means email." And you're pressing enter and then that's your

to-do list.

Exactly. It is the stupidest but best thing I've ever made cuz I did not build it to scale and I just built it for me and I'm sure other people would want it, but I don't

have time to sell it. I don't have time to build this into a business if somebody else wants to uh go crazy. Um,

but really like I just built it for me and I think like I'm personally very excited about that era of of silly projects and hardware. I have another one which I want to build which um I

haven't started on yet but I'm I'm this is another one that like I'm busy running a business. I I'm just doing this for myself. So again back to the problem aka my wife. Um she gets very

mad at me when I lose things, right? And

I lose things a lot. Um, you know, I'm a ADHD meme lord and I'll just like drop my phone like on a co cardboard box in the middle of our apartment, right? And

I kind of think like inhome cameras are good enough now that it could probably just use AI to just like see where I leave things. And so that's another

leave things. And so that's another thing that I'm just going to like try to hack on soon of like ask chatpt how to do it. And like I mean I'm not trying to

do it. And like I mean I'm not trying to build like a home security company. Like

I just am one dude who just like loses his keys a lot and I'm going to try to like fix that problem for myself.

I really love this. And for folks that are not watching YouTube, I also have to call out your your options you're considering on ChatGpt, including an old school Blackberry. I loved my Black

school Blackberry. I loved my Black You're You're too young for this. I

loved my Blackberry Pearl with my whole heart.

I played a lot of played a lot of Brickbreaker on my mom's Blackberry as a kid.

I want to I want to I want to find I want to revive my Blackberry. I I will take on Case 3. I don't care if it's hard. The models will get you. There's

hard. The models will get you. There's

this model that's going to like destroy the earth. It's not power powerful or

the earth. It's not power powerful or it's so powerful it's going to ruin everything. So, I'll just throw $10,000

everything. So, I'll just throw $10,000 at that in a Blackberry Pearl and get my my notetaker I want for my life. Um and

of course you have a meme for it, I'm sure.

Yeah, absolutely. Um I like I It's funny because you remember rabbit. Do you

remember? Uh

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The little or Yeah.

Yeah. I All right. Let me just find this because it's hilarious and I'm I'm still really proud of this. Um I wrote a viral thread about rabbit's top use cases. Um

and if you're not watching, number one, a coaster for your coffee. Number two,

grip strength practice. Uh a cutting board. Oh, I forgot about that one.

board. Oh, I forgot about that one.

That's so good. And um it turned out Rabbit's use case was just put an LLM on it. They were like a year too early. And

it. They were like a year too early. And

I might have to eat my words on this. Um

but I I uh I actually think like uh hardware that just runs LLMs or like you know custom things like it is the future for sure. And uh I I I hope they're not

for sure. And uh I I I hope they're not too mad at me. I'm still friends with somebody on the team hopefully if they don't hate me yet. So

I um well they'll they'll they'll really appreciate you bringing it back up today two two years later.

Hey I mean they might have been early you know like uh Worldcoin. All right. I thought that

uh Worldcoin. All right. I thought that was the stupidest idea ever and I was listening to Alex Bania the founder on a podcast the other day. I was like damn that guy was just early and I'm stupid.

I share a very similar sentiment which is I have sh I have flipped in the past couple years from a cynical pessimist to a it is illogical to be anything but

optimistic because every time I think well that's never going to work that has completely gone away for me now and it's like I actually approach a lot of ideas with well that's obviously going to work

as long as somebody can execute on it well and they care and so I think that that flip is really interesting and then I I believe in two things that you just showed on this workflow. One,

hyperpersonalized software. We were

talking before we got on the recording.

I recently built a custom app that watches all of our podcasts and finds where people docs themselves basically like finds all the API keys that they share, the email addresses, their mom's

phone number when they're like, sells it to on the dark web. I love it.

Exactly. Right. That's the second revenue stream of how I AI is trading on personal information. It's like such a

personal information. It's like such a niche thing and I bet there are hundred people in the world that would buy it right now and maybe I'll try to sell it to you. But why? Like I just build it

to you. But why? Like I just build it for myself. I I need that.

for myself. I I need that.

Another example, too, is like all right, so this is my my my iPhone case, right?

Um it's a keyboard gun and I literally just made this with AI and then it says memelord.com and like yeah, we sell it on our site, but like I built it for me because like my keyboard's my gun,

right? Another one here, I'm gonna share

right? Another one here, I'm gonna share my screen, is I own the domain stopgiving memeadvice.com because like a lot of people give me unasked for advice. And like look, I'm

humble enough to say sometimes I need it, but like I will ask for it if I want advice generally. And so anytime

advice generally. And so anytime somebody asks me or starts giving me advice on Twitter or Instagram, I literally just like send them this. And

um hey, it's great uh great lead magnet.

If you click this, it just goes to me lord, you know? Um cuz like I'm just You can also give this to your wife, you know.

There you go. There you go. That might

lead to other things besides meme lord.

So I'm I'm worried about or you know what, she can have a button on her side of the bed that she hits and it just emails you this.

I don't know. I think like there's going to be a lot more silly fun stuff and I I I hope to inspire other people to build.

I completely agree. And again, I'm just like you and I are spiritual partners here because I said like two years ago to my friends that I was working with, we stopped actually sending memes.

Here's business idea for you. We stopped

sending memes to each other and we started sending meme apps, which is every time something funny would happen at work.

We didn't like a meme. We made an app representing the meme. Yes.

Like one time my friend Joe, he was talking about getting really into like Huber Bro stuff and he said claw like he he takes a claw plunge instead of a cold plunge. And like we made so many claw

plunge. And like we made so many claw plunge apps like and and again you could just take these ideas and they can go from these very tiny inceptions of like I'm going to write an idea in a notebook

to like these full-fledged apps. They

can be totally disposable. There's going

to be a lot of I think VC money that flows through this on the consumer side and I think people will say there hasn't been a really great breakthrough consumer AI app but it it's going to be there because there's just too many so

too much software being generated now for consumer to not be a huge segment with all of this.

Yeah. Could I show you one more use case that like I'm finding really helpful, which like I'm sure a lot of people are already doing this, but I think it'll surprise people that I do it is like I just have my open call look through my

calendar. Every Friday, give me a

calendar. Every Friday, give me a weekend review of the previous week and then every Sunday it gives me a week ahead and like it tells me like what I'm spending too much time on. And like, you

know, like I'm sure other people are doing this with a VA or whatever, but it actually gave great advice of like, "Hey, Jason, like you don't actually need to be at every engineering standup.

Why don't you just like get notes twice a week from like your CTO?" I'm like, "Wow, that's actually 100% true. That's

why I pay him." Or like, you know, it said like, "Oh, you had deep work this day, but you didn't have any of the other days. Like, do you want to

other days. Like, do you want to schedule more?" And I think like I'm

schedule more?" And I think like I'm really excited about this personally because a like I fired my VA. I'm not a fan of having a VA. I don't like other people seeing my calendar, but having a

my own model that does I'm really excited about. And then also like when I

excited about. And then also like when I connect it with other things like the gym or like you know could I connect it with like other things like my health or something like that where it's like you

slept really well today like with my aura ring or something like I'm really I don't know like these kind of things like I'm excited to try to figure out and and do and like anybody could do

this and and to me it's it's really exciting of like you know another thing that I'm gonna build as part of this as well is um I wanted to basically like uh I'm going to review meetings afterwards

and say if a meeting could have been an email and then it gives me advice of like hey like next week like these meetings look like they could be emails want me to cancel them or like something

like that. And another one as well that

like that. And another one as well that I'm building around part of this which I've already started is I have this like theory that I've always had with content that you have so much content sitting in

your calendar meetings and your text messages and your emails that you're just like you forget exists because it's just in your DMs or in a meeting. And I

just want it to like be automatically making me content based on who I hung out with, what calls I was on. Go write

me a tweet about it. Right? Like some of my best viral bangers had been off of, hey, I just got off the call with this person. Keep it anonymous. Here's what

person. Keep it anonymous. Here's what

we talked about. It was pretty cool.

Like just got off the just met with a billionaire, right? But like it works

billionaire, right? But like it works and it's because it's real life and I always thought that that could have been a product and I didn't know how to build like Google calendar integrations and

now it's like I can just build it myself and like who cares about making it a product for other people. I mean, maybe I make it a skill, but like it's just for me. Like I don't know. I'm I'm super

for me. Like I don't know. I'm I'm super excited. I'm a guy that like like I I

excited. I'm a guy that like like I I don't know if you feel this way. Maybe

this is a bit of therapy session, but um I like uh I'm probably like ahead of 95% of the world in in AI agents or whatever, but I still feel like I'm a

thousand% behind. Um,

thousand% behind. Um, and like you know listening to your podcast, listening to I'm just like like I'm like like I'm so ahead of but I'm like oh my god there's so much to do.

You know that is I mean that is my experience literally every time I I record one of these episodes is I am probably like the

1% and still every time I get on this podcast I interview somebody I'm like I should be doing this and that and I'm so bad at this and they're so much smarter at that. And so like if you're ahead,

at that. And so like if you're ahead, you're not that ahead. And if you're behind and you're not that behind, like just go. I think the title of this is

just go. I think the title of this is going to be like ship, ship, cook, cook.

Like it is time. It's so much fun. Okay,

Jason, we're going to get back um get you back to the timeline where you belong. Um

belong. Um couple lightning round questions. One,

can a AI be funny? And which model is the funniest?

Yes, AI can be funny. I had a thesis three four years ago that AI couldn't be funny and uh that was like my public

thesis of like humans are funnier than AI always and I still think that's true for the top.1% of humans but in the background I was always building on the

side knowing that AI will be funny at some point and I think it's like we're hitting that point where AI is getting closer and closer and closer and there's

an asmtote episode and it's replacing, you know, the top 3% funniest and then it's getting closer and like I know that's a weird answer, but I just seeing what I've seen now spending so much time

in it, there are ways to jailbreak it and prompt it in such a way that it gets really unhinged and funny. And we've

baked all that into Meme Lord using a mix of models, uh, Gemini, Grock, uh, and more. Um, I would say like out of

and more. Um, I would say like out of the top three it's it's Grock, Gemini, and um, yeah, I mean, Chad PT and Claude aren't even up there. They're just so safe. And like I mean, it makes sense.

safe. And like I mean, it makes sense.

They're getting sued like crazy. But um,

I don't know. I think the answer here is like AI can make jokes, but humans uh will understand the context and and and

be able to refine them and uh make them the most unhinged, I think, is uh is where we're at. And like, you know, it's it's really like how you use it uh can

you make it funny because like that's what's so special about memes is they're not slop. Like memes are not slop. They

not slop. Like memes are not slop. They

are the opposite of slop. Slop has no context. Memes have context, right?

context. Memes have context, right?

Memes are the most information dense form of communication, right? Another

Elon quote is like they are hyper contextual. And so, um, yeah, AI could

contextual. And so, um, yeah, AI could just spit out slot, but that's not what we try to do here. We try to let humans express themselves and be funny in different ways. I know that was probably

different ways. I know that was probably a weird answer, but No, the answer is both like yes and no. Um,

yes and no.

Yeah.

Yes, and Grock. Yeah. Yeah.

That's like that. Those are my answers right now.

Yeah. It's like yes, it could be super funny. Um but it also like are you a

funny. Um but it also like are you a funny person? Are you like are you

funny person? Are you like are you willing to laugh? I think is like a lot of the dependent as well. I was like, well, yeah. And and that's what I was going to

yeah. And and that's what I was going to say, which is, you know, my own use case of using using your product or using models to write content is they're never out the gate as funny as I think I'm

pretty funny, but like as funny as I could be at my best, but it's like having a conversation with a friend where you like one up one up one up and then then you get to like the really funny thing. And so there's a

there's there's something about the interaction there. And then when we're

interaction there. And then when we're all like sitting in our houses alone with no one to be funny with. So,

you know, you have your open.

It's funny. So, I I um wanted to start as well with how I don't use AI because this is how I use AI. I don't use AI to write at all for me.

I've never done it. Uh and I am so grateful that I've been able to keep that muscle.

Um and you know, I I do stand up occasionally. I make weird, you know,

occasionally. I make weird, you know, viral videos of all sorts of stuff. And

like I don't use AI for it and I just use my brain to come up with weird ideas and and write and think and um you know like especially when it comes to joke

writing like humor is like the last frontier in my opinion right and uh that was our whole thesis behind me lord is is humor is the

last frontier that no AI can really touch and humor comes from weird places in your mind of a mix some weird mix of

trauma pattern matching and absurdism and like you know can you observe the world around you and look inside yourself to be funny is like I just

don't think AI is sentient enough to like out funny me yet but it'll you know I I it can make funny stuff though it can make viral bangers but can it rent out a

movie theater to play Instagram res I'm not sure because that that was not yet not yet give it six months you know.

Yeah, that was that was kind of my philosophical philosophical take there.

But I love it. Okay, well we'll wrap with our last question. Yeah, I cannot be funny when it is not being funny. What's

your go-to prompting technique? Like how

do you how do you talk to AI?

I'm mean, not going to lie. I'm like AI is my slave. Like not not fronting here is like be mean to your AI. I don't know why people say thank you. It's a robot.

Um, and it performs better under pressure unlike men. But see, this is what I mean of the random. Uh, but like yeah, I would say like kind of like uh

push your AI to like be more unhinged.

Like it's okay to curse. Like give it like like AI is kind of like um you know somebody on their first day of the job where they're like they don't really know you and they're like scared to say something or like you're on a first

date. It's like you got to get

date. It's like you got to get comfortable. And like I think, you know,

comfortable. And like I think, you know, my AI curses all the time because I like tell it that that's like my vernacular of how I speak and like that's how I like to speak and think is cursing and

NSFW and you know unhinged things. So I

would just like push it that direction.

Um Meme Lord has all of that built in where it will curse. It'll make dumb jokes. Uh because that's what humor is.

jokes. Uh because that's what humor is.

Like humor is NSFW, right? And so, uh, my advice would just be like push it harder, uh, and like don't be afraid to curse it out because it'll actually like

learn that that's what you're looking for is is a little less, uh, politically correct. So,

correct. So, less less less control. Okay. You have

been the first person on how congratulations that has said straight up, be mean to your AI. So, while we at at How AI, our official stance is we are very nice to the AI overlords. Be be

kind to us and our guests. I I mean I it's it's true like your product is a specific kind of product. You got to get it in its mindset.

Yeah. Yeah. You look I'm not saying like be really really mean cuz like there is a chance, right? Like there's a chance, but like be like mean enough where you

could like potentially apologize if it grows a body. Like that's all I'm saying. Per

saying. Per perfect. I that's that's what we're

perfect. I that's that's what we're we're going to put on in the show notes.

You need enough that you're a little scared if it gets hands. All right,

Jason. This is been such a fun episode.

People are going to grab so many. We

have done so many ideas, so many nuggets. Um, embrace an AI abundance

nuggets. Um, embrace an AI abundance mindset ship, have fun. Just get in there and cook.

And guys, if you need the API, it's right on this CD here.

Yeah. So, where can we find you and how can we be helpful?

Um, just ask me for the CD. I'll send

it. Just The problem is nobody has CD players anymore, so you'll have to figure that one out. But uh find me uh on Twitter. I tweet all day. Uh I am

on Twitter. I tweet all day. Uh I am Jason Leven. Instagram, same thing. I am

Jason Leven. Instagram, same thing. I am

Jason Leven. LinkedIn, same thing. I

reply. I respond to everything.

Uh especially the death threats. So hit

me up there and and go through the onboarding. Best

of Yeah. Yeah. Go through the onboarding. I

Yeah. Yeah. Go through the onboarding. I

appreciate it. Memelord.com. Uh we uh you know, take your memes more seriously. We're in the most

seriously. We're in the most entertaining time alive. It's about to get way more entertaining. So go have fun.

Thanks for joining us. All right, thank you.

Thanks so much for watching. If you

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