How can bootstrapped Solara scale from ₹100 Cr to ₹1,000 Cr?

I have a question for you. If tomorrow

Borosil comes and says I want to buy solar for 500 crores, would you sell it?

>> Anywhere from like 95 to 98% of the customers they visit the website and don't buy. Multiple reasons, right?

don't buy. Multiple reasons, right?

Decent amount of them because of the trust. I think celebrity probably will

trust. I think celebrity probably will not solve for everything but it'll create like some element of trust on the brand. I think one thing that has worked

brand. I think one thing that has worked really well for us is we do like a lot of regional stuff like there's a David Oglevi quote right where he says that when you sell something to somebody best is to do it in vernacular language when we say verak right our first line of

thinking goes language it's not language it's culture >> culture exactly >> for you you can actually make a language free ad with your air fryer which could show fried idlies or it could show kebab it could show whatever right >> this is mostly like on or design like

our team average experience is like 2 years but now as the company is scaling right should I give these guys a chance >> if you're only online and you're trying to scale up digital capabilities then experiences don't matter. The younger

kids are hard at coach but if you want to go into physical retail then you need experienced consumer yoga.

>> This is something that I think like almost daily basis should we raise money or try to grow it bootstrap >> because you have raised a very clear question at least my view for what it's who health is

Hi everyone, welcome to season 5 on the barberh shop. In today's episode, we

barberh shop. In today's episode, we have Shiv and Toshan who have been my bosses and of course our entrepreneur is Gopal who the founder of Solara. Gopal,

welcome to the barber shop.

>> Thank you. No, thank you. Thanks for

meeting all three of you. I feel I know all of you very well because I've been consuming a lot of content over the last especially 2 three years. I listen to Shantu almost twice a week. Uh and then

both of your and I read your recent book as well. So great meeting you in person

as well. So great meeting you in person discuss like what we have been building at Solara and some of the questions that I have as a founder as we are scaling and going to the next level. Right. So

I'll just start with like quick background of why I started the brand my background why I started the brand and where we are currently. So I think uh first I'll start with my background. So

I I'm from uh Vijayara in Andhra Pradesh. Yeah. So I I mean I grew up

Pradesh. Yeah. So I I mean I grew up like in a village like close by but my I did my undergrad in Vijayara. So after

that I went to US in 2005. Uh did

consulting for a while and then did MBA at uh BH School of Business and after that I joined Amazon.

>> Was Dr. Rauram Rajin teaching there at that point of time?

>> Yeah he was teaching but I didn't take notes >> like mostly like PhD courses. Yeah. And

then uh I worked at Amazon as a vendor manager in the home and kitchen category. So that's kind of the genesis

category. So that's kind of the genesis for the brand. Uh I was managing like a lot of uh bigger brands helping them scale uh to hundreds of millions of dollars. Right. Uh and after that uh I

dollars. Right. Uh and after that uh I joined Levis Straws uh as director of e-commerce there managing all of US wholesale e-commerce. Right. So when the

wholesale e-commerce. Right. So when the story behind the brand is when I was at Amazon, I saw lot of brands that are created in home and kitchen space appealing to the new age consumer,

right? So people who are looking for

right? So people who are looking for safer materials, good aesthetics, right?

So that that's an insight that I had at that time and actually at the time we used to work like closely with people in Amazon India as well because they're just trying to scale the category. So I

was I used to look at like what brands are doing well in India and to kind of to my surprise they were like the same brands that I went to school in like '90s right all the same brands that are there so that's why I thought maybe

there is a space for a new age brand that is focused on safe for you materials good aesthetics then 2022 during co where I was still at my job at

lei so I thought uh maybe try out uh with the thesis that I had start a new brand right so always the vision was to build like a digital first home and uh kitchen brand. So, we started with

kitchen brand. So, we started with drinkware because it's even at a mid- premium price point, right? You're still

talking about like 1,000 rupee product and it's easier to convince the customer, right? So, we started with

customer, right? So, we started with drinkware uh and then 2023 we started with small appliances again all focused on like health angle like air fryers,

slow juicers, blenders and then uh 2024 we started non-toxic cookware. So all

the three categories are doing well almost like 1/3 1/3 now and uh currently we are almost close to like 150 cr uh ARR. So this is all off to like GST uh

ARR. So this is all off to like GST uh returns everything right. So this is like net uh revenue. Yeah. Uh I think uh revenue trend I was just talking about

we were around 20 crores odd in 2023 25 we were at 42 crores. This year we'll close to 100 crores. Uh and like last year also we were pad profitable. So

this year also will be pad profitable.

>> Outstanding to start a business from the US in India and scale it like this is unbelievable.

>> Yeah. First two years actually I I was actually doing my day job at Lewise and then uh in >> how are you managing ops in India while being in the US?

>> So like our CFO he's in based out of Hyderabad. So he was kind of helping

Hyderabad. So he was kind of helping out. Uh and then uh like all the I mean

out. Uh and then uh like all the I mean earlier work like I and with my help of my wife like listing creation ads I used to do it and I think as a digital brand founder right you need to be like really

good at marketing or somebody in your team like who you trust like I am like very good at I mean now now it's been 2 years but earlier like when I used to run Amazon ads I was like one of the best I was like in the websites as well

that you are like the top 30 marketer for Amazon >> really but like working on Amazon you kind of >> Yeah. working at Amazon I I saw like how

>> Yeah. working at Amazon I I saw like how brands are run especially I used to work with lot of Chinese brands the minute level of detail like even if a bullet point in a detail page Amazon page is

changed you get a message from them saying that like because I was managing the brand hey goal like this page like this image changed or something like that whereas if it's a comparable US

brand like they will not figure out for a week right I I think they put like a lot of people and the way how they track they track like everything daily hourly and that's what I tell my team now as well that you all of us like should go

to China just like see how they're doing things that will uh I mean I go like twice a year thrice a year just to like understand >> wow everything >> that's true is one thing all of us can learn from >> go to China at least

>> execution >> oh yeah execute the manufacturing >> anybody can do execution at a micro level execution at scale >> yeah so the first question is on uh capital raise versus bootstrapping right

so this is to your question this is something that I think like almost daily basis should we raise money try to grow it bootstrap and the funny thing is I talk to a lot of founders in our

consumer space everyone who has raised money says goal if you if you can do it bootstrap just do it bootstrap like it's it makes things much simpler but after a while it gets like complex so I'll just

set the stage and then uh I seek all of your advice as well I think uh like there are like pros and cons of both right so the overall goal for me as a brand is to go to IPO at some point

right so there are like two paths one is in 3 to 5 year horizon we either build like a 500 crore revenue brand uh which is profitable or raise money and build

1,000 cr brand like build it much faster and probably with less profitability right so the pros and cons as I see it is uh the first pro I think being bootstrapped is as to our earlier

conversation like I think our team because we have this capital constraint like everything like the unit economics we make sure that everything works if not like we'll probably launch a product or we'll cut down marketing. Right? So I

I think the team is like well wired because I think Bezos says this often uh like frugality gives you that you try to figure out ways when you when you are

frugal right I think the cons the if I were to raise money the first thing is the first disadvantage is the uh stress of not having like enough buffer capital right so even in the last one year there

are like months where I had to loan money to the company so that we hit the payroll right so the >> because now the outbound payments are like in So working capital like inventory and receivables

>> uh it's around uh like 60 last month it's higher because of the value but on average the total uh cycle is around 60 to 75 days >> that's also >> inventory is getting nine turns >> yeah yeah in the sheet

>> when you're growing like this you need three months yeah exactly conversions probably like around yeah in the sheet that yeah >> 45 days and 80 days >> yeah yeah so that's the main thing right

like when when you're growing like for example uh this year we're growing to go 2.5 5x >> and given the gross margins you need to buy like a lot of inventory up front and you always have delays with payments

from marketplaces so that kinds of puts a strain uh so that's that I think is the biggest uh con of not have not raising capital negative uh the second is

>> you have raised debt >> yeah we have like a revolver uh >> OD type >> yeah OD type with bank in Hyderabad >> how much 8 crores

that will be insufficient for Oh yeah.

Yeah.

>> Absolutely. Way too inefficient.

>> But then I mean it was it's even inefficient like few months back now because we don't have an option. We been

figuring out like innovative payment terms with suppliers trying to >> get better payment terms and all.

>> If someone comes to a I have a question for you. There's no right answer but I

for you. There's no right answer but I want to know first of all >> it's amazing to see how clear you are about your business. It's frankly just mind-blowing about the clarity of thought on the category on it's also the

advantage of working in Amazon and then selling on Amazon is just amazing.

>> Uh if tomorrow uh Borosil comes and says I want to buy solar for 500 crores bootstrap so you you probably make all

that money would you sell it?

Yeah, for for I I think for the right uh like I mean we have like three four stakeholders in the company like whoever we it's in the sheet but yeah I think at the right uh price uh I think

>> 500 and actually I mean I will not name it but like recently we got an acquisition offer from a strategic but it was like mostly stock based okay >> so that's why we thought it's not like I

didn't want to take that additional risk of uh >> that right so that's why we didn't go forward but I think uh rather than like full acquisition like doing 50% and then the rest or few years that's something

that uh we'll be open towards. The

reason I ask this question is the moment you raise money >> then that other person's IR or outcome especially if you're a good company will mute a lot of these options

>> so for example I don't know you saw the cosmix deal >> cosmix is a plant protein business scale to founders are very clear we scale to 78 90 cr

>> so they will not raise scale to 1890 crores 45 crores of a bida 300 cr sale to marico >> at 400 500 600 crores there are a lot of companies who can buy the moment you raise money and go from 150 to 300 cr of

revenue >> then 1,00 1200 1400 cr price point very few companies can buy then you have the IPO path and then it's a long game >> and a lot of founders love to it's

romantic to want that game but it's a lot like younger founders lot practical to >> cash out 250 300 cr it's a it's life-changing amount of money by >> honestly that's that's one of the main reason I didn't raise money earlier

because I know that like once you raise money right it's it's almost not possible to exit to a strategic anyway I didn't raise money in the first two years >> and I kind of had confidence in the business in the execution I thought and

like I was like decently settled in US so I thought I'll put my own money I saw you you mentioning in some recent conversation right where the founder should put enough stake in >> so I thought I'll put my money and uh

see how it goes but >> I think there's very I said very clear your thought process and so on so at least to me because you have raised a very clear

question at least my view for what it's who heard raise money but just for for a very different reason.

>> Okay, you don't need to do 20% or something right. I think raising money

something right. I think raising money getting the term sheet getting the and you will show a track record for the when you build it for the investor you are raising money if you have to buy the investor out okay you can buy the

investor out any so the terms also we if you want to buy you should be able to buy >> okay okay >> the investor out and you will get somebody who will okay if I'm getting a x% IR return I'll buy you can buy it

back from you so you're raising the money not just for funding your needs you raise even if you raise say 20 crores or 30 crores, 50 whatever you

raise a certain thing you can show track record when if at all at some stage you get into a you know you have shown the growth rate you know how it means to work with investors >> got it yeah >> you've seen but you are a dependent you

are not going to give away because at this stage you don't need to essentially raise money okay you are in a position where many founders would love to be >> but can I add a point there you mentioned that we are in a stage where

we don't need to raise money right say for example we want to grow to like 2x 2 kind of X next year like in India the problem is like debt is not easil easily available like where where will I get the capital from to like grow

>> so so I said don't worry about the because you're 2 and a half or 3x I want to become 5x and so on so if you're already saying I want to get there then you are by definition saying this is not a question

>> okay got right now you're saying look I can get to thousand crores in 5 years or thousand 2 years >> if you say I want to do,000 crores in 2 years if that's your goal then you have no option but to raise it

>> but if you say no I want to go thousand crores and then I'll see because by then you would have got enough cash corp whatever you would have built up enough reserves and so on to do whatever else also with you can diversify you can car

take a separate part of the company and create a second company there you can raise money there so you can do your flexibility increases once you put a time horizon see 5 years 1,000 crores versus 3 years thousand crores very

different very different number you are just saying in 3 to 5 years you have two paths >> yeah yeah >> but yeah it's a very Yeah. Yeah. The

both I just had one listening see.

>> If you raise right now, if you raise the biggest advantage is you will have a valuation which is phenomenal.

>> Mhm.

>> Then to repay or meet that valuation threshold, you have no option but to then fire the rocket.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And they will not stop at,000 crores.

Then it's like can we get to >> 300 >> 2,000 crores and can we have a then the discussion will be can we do a multi-billion dollar IPO >> because somebody who is backing you for a,000 cr revenue

>> they'll not >> is not going to boss I took the company from here to here now the outcome is only much bigger so you are going to get a lot of that so

the to me that's the real question for you is if you raise 20 cr or 50% accelerate but not so much that you are dependent because see you in a very privileged position. Use that privilege

privileged position. Use that privilege well >> and what what would what would your mode be? Would your be manufacturing like

be? Would your be manufacturing like would you if you raise 30 40 crores would you say I'm going to set up my own factory to build build the best bottles cookware and >> uh let's say durables air fryers etc.

Yeah, I think appliances we are planning to set up. Uh I mean some I think some components you definitely have to import but like at least rest of it we are planning to do it here and then there are like regulations as well that might come at some point right.

>> So that's where your money will go in like in terms of or would you say no I want to build out the brand?

>> No I think build out the brand and uh then like parally with cash flows probably we can fund some of the >> Yeah. So Gopal if you were to give me

>> Yeah. So Gopal if you were to give me who is your target consumer? See the

target consumer for all is the housewife.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. But who the housewives? That's

what I'd like to know. Yeah.

>> What's the profile you're looking >> exactly? So it's like people who are

>> exactly? So it's like people who are like making more than like uh 80 sorry eight lakhs a year like tier one tier 200 even like now we're seeing a lot of

orders on the website from tier 2 cities right so uh like those customers so that is our target customer.

>> No problem. If somebody if a household is earning 10 lakhs of rupees what is their propensity to spend on these three categories and how much would they spend?

>> Yeah. So the the main uh USB or the reason why they spend on this is for example either appliances or cookware right or even bottles for example like people are like really looking for like

non-toxic options right and within appliances also now like people want to stop eating fried food because very health consscious like trying to eat like air fried food or instead of like

mixing mixing or grinding your food like slow juicing the juices right so consumers are moving towards these new age appliances >> I think just listening to uh you it's maybe worthwhile for us to

change the definition to >> targeting working housewives.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Because the kind of product that you have and what you're talking about they need it more than somebody.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So filter it to say okay I'm looking at >> okay some 10 to 15 lakhs double income household house working at least two three times a week in the >> just absolutely.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Because then it makes sense for them.

>> Makes sense. somebody who's at home.

>> Yeah.

>> It does the value proposition is on the same.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

>> Yeah. Okay. Got it. And do you see that like that hypothesis playing out in your consumer group right now?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> 100%. It has to play out.

>> Yeah.

>> So now like I mean with Amazon you can only uh with market places you do like limited right but now we have a lot of data on the website. Now we're trying to call the customers and actually if the customer is in Hyderabad we actually go and deliver to them to understand why

they bought it and all. So that's the actually demographic uh that we see people both wife and husband are working.

>> Absolutely. That's the key thing and you can check it from Amazon. Deliver after

6 p.m.

>> That's the simplest. You don't need any other data point. Just look at all your orders which are after 6 p.m. That's

all.

>> No, even yesterday like before coming we're delivering order in Hyderabad. He

asked me to come after 9 p.m.

>> Absolutely. That's the answer.

>> So what's the answer here? Like I'm I'm actually like >> I think one is the ambition. No, I think it is driven by ambition has a function of size and timing.

>> Okay. I think this is what's ambition going to be Gopal for you. Yeah. So ju

just to make sure like understand what to and she was saying if in three or or say in five years you want to bet 500 course right then just do bootstrapping.

Exactly. Continue.

>> That's one.

>> Whereas like if you want to go like hypers scale 1,000 crores is no longer like a great benchmark in this category like 5 years say you're targeting 2,000 crores or more then you don't have like any option but to raise funds.

>> The issue is the stress for the working capital.

>> Yeah.

>> That's all it is.

>> Yeah.

>> Nothing else.

>> What stress are you willing to take for the working capital? you need.

>> Yeah. So, uh this is on like overall like brand elevation and celebrity, right? So, I know you signed like lot of

right? So, I know you signed like lot of brand deals and Shu in his past has signed some of the biggest celebrity deals. See, like now in a category like

deals. See, like now in a category like our website for example, right? That AOE

is like 4,000 which is like pretty high when you compare to DTC brands, right?

So, anywhere from like 95 to 98% of the customers they visit the website and don't buy multiple reasons, right? one

is price point but decent amount of them because of the trust because it's a new brand they still have like questions I'm spending 8,000 rupees on a product will they ship or not I think celebrity probably will not solve for everything

but it'll create like some element of uh trust on the brand right so the question that I have is is it like better like having a celebrity which some brands have done but the problem is if you work

out the budget and then the amplification budget like if it's a very big risk to take versus you identify like 30 to 50 different chefs in regional

>> and then sign up. I think one thing that has worked really well for us is like we do like a lot of regional stuff like being in south India like there is a David quote right where he says that when you sell something to

somebody like best is to do it in vernacular language right and I see now you're doing a lot of kinati I don't understand but I get the gist of it right so that's why we do lot of uh even

Facebook ads in Telugu Tamil Mallayalam all these which which work well right so that's the other option is very good because see when When we say verak right our first line of thinking goes language it's not language it's culture culture

exactly >> for you you can actually make a language free ad with your air fryer which could show fried idlies or it could show kebabs it could show whatever right depending on the culture and then target appropriately >> no no but just going next step further

right like the type of food that you make even in like and talangana the type of food that you make in one part versus is different now trying to go to that next level is like what's helping us like same thing like Tamil Nadu makes

completely separate food so like making the all these videos as well regional.

>> So regional right I think your category also lend itself to like really cool content.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

>> It's a very very engaging. It's I think food and recipes is the second or third highest watched category on YouTube.

Yeah. Yeah.

>> Highest watch category on YouTube is recipes.

>> It took off with co and has not come down unlike a lot of other things.

>> Wow.

>> So celebrity know what's your let me ask you a basic question on on a 100 core revenue. What do your what is your

revenue. What do your what is your marketing spend above the line like influencers or you know like >> so performance marketing is around 12 to 15%.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. And yeah we don't influencers like very less.

>> What >> we just work with like micro influencers where we give BH >> yeah we just do like B. No those are the just asking like we haven't signed up with any chefs.

>> For example like for example Ran Bra would take let's say three lakh rupees for a good reel. Yeah, we no >> you don't do any of them >> currently we don't do we mostly work with max is like 50,000 one lakh uh

followers or ring star and most of the time it's barter or we pay like 5,000 10,000 rupees >> yeah but so your question again I'm not I don't understand it that well of because I've seen celebrities do a pan

parav also know so that why I'm just saying that's not the question is really >> the category now >> I know I'm saying why don't you try what's the you will know sha you will know better but what's the downside in

if you think the Master Chefs is the better way. Just try it and see what

better way. Just try it and see what happens. Do you get a FFT? You're

happens. Do you get a FFT? You're

tracking so much. So is there a downside in just trying and seeing because you have the funds you have, you think it's possible. So at least understand more to

possible. So at least understand more to be able to take would do you go big in it. But if Ranir or that Sanjot K or

it. But if Ranir or that Sanjot K or whatever that guy >> Sanjay Kapoor he has own brand not Sanjiv Kapoor but at Sanjot K who does that other brand. No

>> Vikas Ka who no Raj Shamani is that other chef. Yeah. who comes on Rajes

other chef. Yeah. who comes on Rajes this thing.

>> So I'm saying does it work? Does it not work? Why don't you try it and try three

work? Why don't you try it and try three different chefs and see what happens?

>> That's the benefit of raising money. So

you raise money >> then you can do something.

>> No, but but I'm saying three lakhs he can.

>> No, I think it's not three lakhs. It's

probably >> three months real.

>> I'm saying do 10 real or 30 lakhs. I'm

saying no but good or bad like my mind immediately goes to 30 lakhs. Like if I put it on Facebook I get like 5x return 1.5 crores of >> like now what what will I get here

>> there you get 15 with one I don't think it'll move the needle with one >> you need you need to keep so you need a frequency of five to seven they have to use it multiple times you need one year a deal >> sorry >> yeah to answer your question see

categories think about categories which are predominantly health space health imagery >> and categories which are predominantly cosmetic imagery

>> okay in cosmetic imagery celebrities work because the role of the celebrity is a source of electricity or a source of excitement in the health space.

Source of authority works for celebrity.

>> So for example in Quaker when we tried Vikas that worked very well the kind of like he as we had open challenge to the housewives to say bring us your recipe of oats and we had a queue.

>> It was Vikas Ka >> Vikas Kana. So he's a good friend of mine.

>> If you're interested in him I can always link you up.

>> Okay. So try it. You have nothing to lose. Yeah.

lose. Yeah.

>> And the other thing you can do earlier discussion okay suppose you take a good chef whoever it is okay you mistake in the business and say you're my guy for the next 2 years a lot of you know celebrities do know sources of authority

also will do >> any celebrities do this partial this and partial that also >> but you need to find like the good partner before you give equity and all >> that who who would you want I'm sure you have thought about this who who would it be

>> for this for this consumer that you have identified for these categories. Yeah.

>> And given that you have a regional pool like would you like would you look at three four big big chefs around the country or would you look at >> so like if it's like actual movie celebrities right I was thinking like somebody like from the north and one

from the south uh because like very few people like all South Indians also connect from Bollywood as well right so if I have to go that path like I was thinking like two different uh people and chefs I think all some of the names

that we have discussed they are already working for other brands like basically some of the top Michelin chefs I think uh >> but the again the goes back to saying the target audience or working housewife

would she connect with a who would she connect with like I I don't know >> and gazelle at nuke have gotten karan jaw >> so now they are selling vacuum cleaners also they sell air fryers also they are selling like 10 different kind of

>> is it effective or not >> I think it's very effective because they have gotten the they've got it see their entire brand is their own design good durable they're well designed for the modern Indian who is discerning karan

because of his coffee with karan and that whole coler gift he the moment he's there they're like okay cool that their association is good so I was I know given you a brand you would have someone in mind who that who are that who that

person no like Bollywood was think like say Madurik someone in Telugu or like in south India like Samantha or like somebody who is good in south India and has visibility like north as well

>> where is your market today where are your consumers do you want to say split splitware >> I mean I would say like all the because again it's completely digital like the typical channels where digital do well

right like Gorgo here >> okay >> Bangalore yeah yeah yeah it's almost like a mirrors uh like say blinkets uh market share >> uh does solara have like a like is it an

Indian name like do people associate this being an Indian brand >> I think now over a period it's developing but yeah now people associate that >> with the choice of celebrity and influencers maybe should be about and

and in this category I think making in India will be a huge advantage do you do CSD army campaigns >> we try to get into it. Uh but there is like law lot of paperwork that the team has been working >> paperwork and also

>> they will go check the domestic market first. I don't know what the rules are

first. I don't know what the rules are with respect to quick commerce and this thing >> in the past they'll go check availability in the retail outlet and then accept you.

>> Okay.

>> So I don't know what their rules because they'll have to change their rules >> but with with with appliances durables airfire etc. BIS is going to come in.

>> Yeah. I know like all of these are BI certified. So now there are going to be

certified. So now there are going to be thousand manufacturers coming up in India in a few years.

>> This is going to get very competitive >> because of Indian manufacturing.

>> So setting up your own manufacturing, scaling it and then Indianizing it >> is possibly the best way to kind of >> uh build out the brand like even today.

>> What is that?

>> Where do you get the products from today?

>> So like all cookware and uh these we make in India.

>> Okay.

>> And then appliances we get like components and then assemble them here.

Yeah.

>> Singi. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. So all that like BI certification we are getting on our own factory name.

So like all of that we're doing in house.

>> You also see gross margin goodness coming into the business.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> It's very good.

>> Yeah.

>> And do you work like I would strongly recommend working with influencers.

>> Yeah. Just takes

>> Yeah. We have been working like as I told we haven't gone to like expensive ones because I always look at the ROA and then Okay.

>> So don't look at So this this is where you have to take your Amazon hat off and take your brand hat on cuz there's a lot of equity. You have to feed a lot of

of equity. You have to feed a lot of this equity through influence online over a period of time.

>> We'll have to do that.

>> What's your like feedback? You work with IPL team.

>> So for example, we used to like everyone, right? Like what's the overall

everyone, right? Like what's the overall helpful?

>> Yeah. Like if you have a 3 to 5 year view on the brand, you have to invest.

So we show 95 per five brand. Today the

next year is 50 per 50 brand.

>> This is mostly like on or design like our team like the average is like what two years, right? Average experience is like two years. uh mostly like freshers we have trained our core leadership team

like we are four of us like all of us have experience me our CFO our CEO was Sur and Shua she's my wife she looks after product design and everything so four of us have experience but otherwise

it's mostly freshers uh people with like two three years experience where training the company but now as the company is scaling right there will be roles where you will probably need to get people from outside

>> uh like the question that I have is should I give these guys a chance to see if they can scale or and also you you you don't know what you don't know right like you worked here for like 3 4 years and there are things that you don't know

unless you have worked at other places so I'm sure like you navigated with uh Deepak and everyone so wanted to just get get your learnings on like how >> is amazing by this is like this 0 to 150 journey with young folks is outstanding

I can I can already visualize what kind of office you have like what kind of products you should come to Hyderabad next year what kind of shoots you do like what how if there's a 12 cr budget I can totally imagine this being like a

very iterative exper experimental team.

>> No, on shoot for example, right? Like we

probably have like a lot of these equipment but we didn't buy it because it's a huge capital expenditure.

>> I work with a friend who is like into marriage shootings and all. He uses the equipment only on mostly weekends.

Correct.

>> All the other time it's sits idle.

>> So we partnered with him.

>> Wow.

>> So we take we use it on weekend on all the weekdays pay like very less.

>> So that's how we make it work. But I

think at some point and especially given the context of the previous question uh my one cush to you is I think you will have to hire

very like some senior talent in areas that you're going to build your remote.

>> Yeah.

>> So if you're going to build like if brand is going to be your remote with my strong suggestion it would because it's a it's a cluttered market >> you need distinctiveness beyond product design >> and the whole storytelling of what

solara is who am I? Why buy me like Sh said in the earlier one, right? And then

really creating amazing dectible content, community, commerce strategy as a CMO is one and centering the organization around the CMO.

>> Yeah.

>> Is especially the founding team is not >> like core marketing first >> and is maybe product first or growth first. In your case, I'm assuming you're

first. In your case, I'm assuming you're a growth person.

>> Yeah. Like I have like all digital even Facebook marketing I run it even today but not brand marketing like I'm not expert.

>> That's what I was going to say. You see

when you want to scale up what capability do you want to scale up?

>> So if you're looking at going retail >> which is physical retail you're only online.

>> If you're only online and you're trying to scale up digital capabilities then experience this don't matter.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> The younger kids are far better.

>> Okay.

>> But if you want to go into physical retail okay with the Gas of this world the py company of this world the Vijay sales then you need experienced consumer durable.

>> Okay. uh consumer durable CVS doesn't you'll get enough >> you don't need to worry about >> the challenge you'll have is your uh middle category

>> ceramic ceramic ceramic >> absolutely talent is not there in this >> yeah yeah >> I I used to help Ana with her brandai and it's a struggle to get good talent

>> you know very big challenge there's not enough guys >> cookware offline for example what kind of stores would you sell like ceramic cookware A cookware is actually very speciality stores which are combination

stores with another general stores okay believe it or not with florist okay all kinds of things you know so in Bangalore if you go down that road okay there's a floor is selling cookware etc candles

guys doing that so it's a mishmash >> so we don't have talent in that industry at least I've not come across to be honest >> okay very difficult to source talent for that industry

>> yeah so it's very unorganized brand of >> very unorganized most of it a lot of it I don't know where you source it a lot of it Morby >> okay so because the clay there etc. >> Okay so it's a very different game I

don't know that I'm not well versed with that but I know that capability is not there in that industry.

>> Yeah but your point like couple of roles that you're thinking outsiders is like either CMO or a senior brand manager who can like maybe we can promote a CMO later. So that's a profile that I was

later. So that's a profile that I was looking to hire from outside. In fact,

if you're looking to hire from outside based on what Koshan said as well as Shantanu, I think that you need a very good strategy or portfolio person to help you.

>> That's what you need.

>> For me, the marketing head does this.

Like if the okay somebody who thinks at that level what should a portfolio be where should we compete? How do we compare? That is the important question.

compare? That is the important question.

>> You'll need a category thinker actually.

You need a marketing category portfolio.

We'll work with your wife for example.

the NPD, innovation, marketing, strategy, portfolio, all that sits in one team and that team will need experience and the entire or then >> revolves around manufacturing has to feed this.

>> Sales has to feed this.

>> This is the innovation engine. So

minimalist for example did this very well.

>> If they knew exactly what product they had to deliver and how they were going to communicate it everything else was >> revolves around that.

>> So that was a mode.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Then no one can replicate it. then you

then you will not be a meer like in in like like but >> then you need to find the best island for that >> no but I think the only other thing I

would say is because your mindset is so different okay and the culture which I'm presuming that you have built is very different I think whatever role you take whether it is the portfolio manager CMO

overtime role I think the fit check >> yeah yeah yeah >> is going to become far more >> exactly >> because if you don't get fit I think it is better to try and do it yourself because I think it's very because you

get somebody who is not from the right because see you've done for somebody from coming let me take an extreme example MNC would not do this whole let me try and figure out the marriage guy who is going to have this

>> yeah he needs everything ready what is this how much is the money >> it's at thinking and then as a founder team or founding team you will get into clashes >> okay see because your challenge is you

don't have the skill set you get somebody senior now when you get somebody senior you have to give that person that much and all right support.

Yeah.

>> So that's why at least my suggestion would be make sure >> everybody in the company like four of you >> only if everybody says yes get it because it is not a

>> it's not a capability check if that resume itself you know you worked in XY Z is fine you know it's going to happen >> you need to have like you get the culture thing wrong >> you're going to have two years >> you go back two years because see that

person is going to come he's either going to work with the existing people or he's going to say look these guys don't have expertise let me get from outside. So he's now then you are going

outside. So he's now then you are going to have two companies within a company >> and as the founder you are going to be like >> so what's happening?

>> No no no but you will you will say I have to give that much time >> because such a senior person you would have given some stock options oh should I have to give that much time >> but it's not working this is not my way

and then you will create too much of polit and so on. So just be thoughtful that a fit check is going to be so important for you and to me

>> at this stage be sure whom you are getting it is worth delaying it getting.

So don't go with like the first person you like okay first second third get the person to meet >> again come show what are your suggestions spend a day so just invest

more that the first two external hires are going to be so foundational it can set you back >> because as you said no it is >> you will have to empower the person otherwise if you are going to again say you don't know anything this is not our

way solar we used to do it like this we're like yeah if you know everything then >> I'm not here as an adviser you want me to do things for you. As an adviser, I can talent and you decide. But if I'm

core part of the team, >> I need to understand you. You need to give me the freedom and I will do things differently from you.

>> Are you okay with it?

>> Yeah. Okay. Last one. She was like strong suit.

>> So, I think you mentioned earlier right like GT like offline. Uh

>> I checked when I saw this, I checked with the other guys in the industry. 15

lakhs.

>> What is what is 15 lakhs?

>> 15 lakhs to set up you know store.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay.

>> At a gross margin of 30 to 40%.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> So I checked the number of guys who do it last night.

>> So yeah like I read I saw a lot of your presentation where Shiv mentioned that he comes like very well prepared for the meetings.

>> He knows the numbers. So other founders are asking what number is your >> so as long as you can do that but what's more important is the experience you generate.

>> Mhm. Exactly.

>> It cannot be a railway station.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> I don't need to dim people just come in.

Yeah.

>> Yeah. It has to be my class. And next is the people in that experience store. Are

they knowledgeable?

>> Exact. I think that's the big point. For

example, >> you need great promoters.

>> Yeah. I I go to like a lot of stores and even yesterday I went to Reliance Smart Buzzer in ambience mall here.

>> Then I went downstairs like all the appliances and all. He was trying to push me a blender but then I asked like two follow-up questions. That guy had no >> and you can't blame that person, right?

They're just like temperature, he won't know speed, he won't know, nothing will.

Maybe if it's like traditional capacity traditional product like it's a mixer and grinder maybe he will know but a lot of these new age appliances those guys have like no clue >> I think the issue with offline in my from >> you did a lot of experimentation but

like,000 rupees this is all 4,000 >> yeah yeah yeah >> is there's a lot of variables customer who will go to a store like for a sandwich maker or a gizer or a heater machine or like air the promote like there are multiple promoters everyone

knows that this promoter is for this brand that is for that brand they'll say yes ma'am and you'll see that this promoter is starting to sell some other brand also cuz because >> Mhm.

>> you'll take all that information in.

Okay. And you'll feel intelligent and then the consumer will eventually go with a safe brand.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> AC may he'll go on everything will not go.

>> So in your case as a new brand you will have to really find out what is your reason to believe or reason to buy a younger brand in a competitive

environment where the AOE is very high.

So my view is on this now uh uh experience tools works as marketing.

It's great to kind of >> Yeah, I think from a customer perspective, right? Like a lot of

perspective, right? Like a lot of customers currently we are starting doing video demos, but a lot of customers first want to see like how the product works, what's the product that they're getting.

>> I think that part of that is like what the experience stores solve it, right?

>> Sleep companies done a fantabulous job, fabulous job with this.

>> I think also is doing decent job but sleep companies next mattress and a chair and the way they have it then they show their foam they so with with there again this is something that your category head will know more than your

sales. This is not a sales job.

sales. This is not a sales job.

>> This is a category head job. They he or she has to make that cookware feel like the most amazing thing >> on entire golf course road.

>> Mhm.

>> Sleep company basically romances sleep and that foam and that double layer and you put your finger in and they really make you feel like that mattress is just state of the art.

>> Yeah.

>> If you can overall store experience and the way how the store is lighted like everything is like outstanding. Five out

of five. Yeah.

>> I'll follow up a clarification question.

How much of your product sales is EMI based?

>> Uh on the website uh we actually started like only a month back the EMI part.

>> So currently it's already what's your >> 10% now >> 10% already.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Because that gives you an opportunity to tie up with some banks.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So currently

we're using like go quick. They kind of I think tie up with the banks and solve that issue.

>> Yeah. That's one. Next question is if you do experience stores are you planning to go to retail?

>> Yeah. at least like multibrand stores.

>> Yeah, I'll look for your database as well. But based on the some of the

well. But based on the some of the research that I did, appliances it's and it's good to have like experience store whereas like say drinkware and even cookware probably have to go like more

general GT and empty route.

>> No, see once you put Solara brand as then you'll put everything there. Yeah,

>> you're not experience.

>> Yeah. No, but I'm saying like the focus, right? Like sell try to sell like higher

right? Like sell try to sell like higher ASP uh items on the experience store.

>> Whereas uh like drinkware and cookware, I think GT and MT are like the best channels to scale.

>> If you do that, watch for channel conflict between your experience store and them.

>> So yourself and even like with uh Amazon, Flipkart and stores as well.

>> So that's a big real.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay. So you need a balancing factor.

Mhm.

>> Okay.

>> See, I think to me the question is is it experience store or is it a your own brand sales outlet and what is the difference?

>> It can be both, right? No, I don't know because >> you dial down on the investments if it's your own brand sales.

>> If you exactly because if it's an experience store then you really want to create the difference versus I go to a multibrand where solar is also available. If I can get the same thing

available. If I can get the same thing and see at AO of 4,000 versus 30,000 of Mokabara the footfall the economics is again very very different. So tours as a

channel which is profitable is deadly if your RO is low >> like >> low means what like define low >> uh sub,000 sub,000 >> like almost like a website right like

even on your DTC channel 1,000 1200 very >> razors and shaving forms and all be the moment you move into trimmers and fragrances where suddenly you went above 1,000 rupees a store can start breaking you to our store cannot be more than

rental of four five lakh some >> airports etc. airport we cannot do like Bombay company cannot do but Mubara sleep company

30,000 mattress 15,000 bag etc. So 15 lakhs 30 40% gross margin six lakhs it takes care of the whole 30 >> that's what it is right >> yeah got it >> so that's how you should think about it

but look at it as part of a marketing retail strategy >> sh don't have it here but like other question is how did you solve at nokia for all the servicing uh point >> what do you mean by service

>> like phone servicing right which is uh probably a very big factor >> that's a good question do you have care centers >> no no currently we do we reverse we have reverse logistics setup so we bring it So >> warranty under

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> At what price does it make sense for you to repair something?

>> So uh you you mean like uh different price like >> Okay, let me explain. In the year 20056, anything which was below 2,500 rupees ASP was not worth repairing. It was

>> Got it. Got it. Yeah. You

>> new product.

>> You're at 4,000. The cost of back freight, the cost of establishing etc. is actually more expensive than doing >> a fresh new product. close it. I'm sure

you worked out your numbers.

>> No, no, that's what we do. Uh like we have like multiple steps. One is we try to do a video call to see if it's a user issue. There like three four levels. If

issue. There like three four levels. If

everything fails then >> correct. If it is 10,000 rupees, you're

>> correct. If it is 10,000 rupees, you're absolutely right.

>> At 3 4,000 don't worry.

>> No, but the problem is like for the customer before buying, right? That's

one thing that they check and and again like all of the brand most of the brands in these new age appliances, they don't have all the servicing everything set up, >> right? Uh

>> right? Uh >> so good question again. Are there guys who can do this repair? So we tried like there are some third parties >> you pay the third party guy whatever like 200 or 300 he goes there don't have

any incentive to fix it right he just goes there he just like does some stuff like plug in do some basic stuff and if he's not able to figure out he just says he'll just tell us to replace it so then you're paying that guy and then anyway

you are replacing it >> so we stop that >> what consumers in these kind of things and mobile phone was no exception is that when something goes wrong the first thing they want is a replacement for it to work in the period that you have taken it away Mhm.

>> So you need enough replacement sets in whichever >> way or you know form you want.

>> Okay.

>> And then before they buy they need a warranty. What is your warranty today?

warranty. What is your warranty today?

>> We offer like uh 1 year plus 6 months 18 months.

>> 18 months paid for or part of the price?

>> No, it's part of the price.

>> Not separate.

>> Not separate.

>> Even we do.

>> And then you have a commitment then.

>> Yeah. Yeah. The price then you have no choice.

>> Yeah. No, because now we're doing like manufacturing and all right. We have a lot of parts like we so if something breaks like a fan breaks or something we ship like if there is issue with the basket we ship just the part because now we have like all the

>> so no problem not drink not this thing in your kitchen >> appliance yeah that's where the major >> how many what's the maximum moving parts in any product

>> 20 then your inventory will be very bad >> inventory the more moving parts you have the more you need to you know repair and maintenance >> no but because we because of like we're doing all the manufure ing assembly,

right? We have like all the parts

right? We have like all the parts already for the manufacturing.

>> Yeah. But there's a time to ship them.

No.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> See, they're not available where the consumer goes for example.

>> Yeah. We ship in like 3 to 5 days once the customer >> Exactly. So if it's 2 to 5 days, what

>> Exactly. So if it's 2 to 5 days, what does the consumer do for this 3 to 5 days?

>> Generally, they're okay. Like these are like this is not like a phone where it's essential, right? Uh customers are

essential, right? Uh customers are generally okay.

>> You're okay with that?

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> But then I'm trying to see like as we scale like how we do we solve it like maybe start service center. I think

stores actually will solve some of the issue people can come to the store at least they have trust when buying it right all lot of this is before buying the customer main question that customers asking

>> what level is a service center needed for example Google phones get done by reading they don't need to do it themselves >> so you have to ask that question >> got it got it >> so if you are 2,000 crores you definitely need >> yeah yeah

>> if you're at 150 crores build the ecosystem let somebody else do it >> experienced stores I think if even if you look at a sales channel just remember that the first store will do very well.

>> The second store will do lesser than third store because then you you've kind of capped out and so on. So,

>> no, but probably Exactly. one per city. Yeah.

Exactly. one per city. Yeah.

>> You will never do a It's very difficult.

>> I was actually going to say that that's a very very good point both of them are raising which I forgot completely. You

can do an experience compare center.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay. That's easier and less expensive.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. So people can double up. Mhm.

>> So now I also as a consumer know I bought it from this guy.

>> So you know all the places >> I used to be area sales man. So and then I go back to say now I have a place to go.

>> So I'm working with that. So

>> wherever you building experience build the care >> responsible. Yeah like

>> responsible. Yeah like >> you know >> just a desk on the side. Yeah. Yeah.

That's good.

>> Or sometimes they do two floors. So

ground is the experience center. If you

want to get anything prepared you go up and do the care. And

>> good part about your business like the products are large.

>> Yeah.

>> So it's nice. This pro will be big. It's

nice like you can like create really cool experience.

>> Experience. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I have like very good ideas in mind about experience.

>> That's one. The other thing which we realized in electronics is >> how much of your products can be made modular as opposed to way it's happening. That's

talk to your Chinese people.

>> Figure out if you can make it modular, it's far easier for >> m Yeah, that's a really good point. But

by the way retail like now work like your own experience store how the customer through flow has to happen where should be what who are the vendors this is all playbook out >> so mo and all they have like there are

agencies who do this for a living >> fourth dimension or third dimension >> so they do this very well and then they'll come to you with options based your budgets >> so don't reinvent the way they just just like

>> look up the space out it >> even the space also you'll see like all these brands are in like half kilometer range in your city.

>> Absolutely.

>> Yeah. The other thing which experienced which works very well is put up your outlet in the cluster which is a thing.

Now you have to because you have three different categories you have. So to

choose which cluster you can go with >> I think they're all like like big markets right with like multiple >> and they're separate ones.

>> The cookware is a very different cluster compared to your >> electronics.

Which brand do you look up to from a design sensibility etc like established or otherwise in in these categories? I

>> think mostly from US uh like Ninja does like really good job. They're like a public company. Shark Ninja.

public company. Shark Ninja.

>> Yeah, they do really good job and drink I mean US market is like so deep, right?

In drinkware >> there like 10 brands which are valued like more than billion dollars, right?

Like Eti is like four billion or something. They just do

something. They just do >> and Stanley like Stanley.

>> Yeah. Stanley, uh, Simple Modern, Brewmate, Hydro Flask, Iron Plus. There

are like tons of brands just in just do insulated drinkware which have like more than three $400 million in sales.

>> You know, one of the biggest use cases of drinkware I've seen and I've been observing this for the last few years is anybody who drives a car in America.

>> Okay.

>> The bottle is so big.

>> Yeah.

>> Whether it's a cab or anybody because it's long distance.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Now half an hour, 45 minutes minimum.

These guys, anybody who comes to pick you up at an airport, JFK or Chicago, you watch this, the guy's got a full flask.

>> Full flask.

>> See, I mean, >> but in India also urban India driving, but we don't drink that in the car.

>> The guys take the small bottle, refill it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> But see the the larger bottles. They're

used to in US everything is large. The

car is large, the holder is large.

>> Even your tumbler is large.

>> The coffee that you drink like people carry like big tumblers.

>> We'll have a the coffees will be large.

But I think India we getting there with everybody's now putting something or the other in the car >> the other >> no now sorry a lot of people now use like at least one liter 2 liter bottles to drink >> a lot of people and they hold it also

weirdly like what is what is what is this >> like is that a thing >> yeah I think >> I've seen people hold it like this >> like this yeah >> no because if it's a tumbler right like how will you hold it looks odd right like this the normal way to hold a glass

like what is what is this >> it's a very I don't know am I getting this wrong >> I just love is trying to do.

>> I don't see I don't know who who would like this.

>> You see any >> I don't know anybody who would like >> any gym going person with a stand.

>> You want to show the biceps?

>> No, I don't.

>> Look at the bicep. Look at the that is the only thing >> because Stanley Tumbler you can't hold like this, right? It's like in the only way you can hold is like this because the handle is like I don't even influence like

>> so a brand from the past you should study and check with people. The network

would still be there. Sumit used to have a very good sales as well as a service.

>> Yeah. Yeah. mixer

>> we grew up with mixer and grinder.

>> So check some of the trade might remember it. They might still have this

remember it. They might still have this thing. So it's good for you to check it.

thing. So it's good for you to check it.

No on on that point right I was looking at this >> to be what's his name Agarwal uncle >> his ex semens he left Zimmons and started this >> and they sold it still the children couldn't run it or whatever >> I don't know if it's with other

categories like kitchen I I'm studying a lot of brands it's very regional I mean the product is actually India wide but for whatever reason like there are a lot of brands in Tamil Nadu they just serve south >> lot of brands in north they just serve

north very it's not not like FMC >> that's how the trade is structured I think that's why >> but SG is not like that way right it's >> no like Yeah, national distribution, national advertising, it's a lot of things.

>> Masalas for example, very regional masalas because it's very interesting.

>> Amazing. Argopal

>> I don't know howful we were but I think it's such an amazing business and >> great discussion.

>> I think just to wrap it up I think on fundraising uh toshan has very clearly put his in hat in the ring on this one but smaller round with investors who

will let you let you run it. uh I think on org would be kind of figuring out the mode. So strategy,

mode. So strategy, portfolio, marketing I think becomes core. Um yeah

core. Um yeah >> on experience stores I think there's just a lot to think about from a >> care plus uh >> yeah on the org very important goal is saying right now you are the thinker

doer everything >> yeah yeah yeah >> as you grow from from 0 to 150 was that from 150 to 500 150 to thousand where is it that you are the doer where is it you are the adviser where is it that you're

saying I'm governance >> kind of thing because your own role across the board can't be the same because then your your time and energy will be the constraint Yeah. No, now I got like a very good CO like Suresh on

Amazon, Flipkart. He runs like a lot of

Amazon, Flipkart. He runs like a lot of the operations.

>> Now I'm like very focused on growth part of the business. Now

>> as a founder you'll play founder, shareholder, CEO, three different roles at different times and then you'll need to get others to play like Pacific.

>> One of the external trend which we've seen happening and it is true even for two and three DHK is not about kitchens are now far more open than they ever.

>> Exactly.

>> No, that's why the whole aesthetics >> I agree with you. Think about how your product fits into the new dimensions of kitchen.

>> Okay. So it becomes a pride of place in the past. Refriator was pride.

the past. Refriator was pride.

>> Now there are other also which are true.

Okay. So think about it from open kitchen.

>> It's played out so much water purifier.

>> In terms of random aquaga it has to be like beautiful and look good >> because it's open kitchen. Even all the builders have told us two and three bedroom open kitchen.

>> Yeah. No even drinkear right like earlier it used to be like a commodity.

Now it's like very fashion like lot of girls like they have multiple drink wear just to >> Yeah. Just to make sure it fits with

>> Yeah. Just to make sure it fits with their theme of >> Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> has to be by the clothes.

>> Yeah. Clothes.

>> Red clothes has to be bottle has to be something.

>> Blue clothes bottle has to be to hold it. Yeah.

it. Yeah.

>> But so that's a trend in US started in like 2015. Now it's in India also.

like 2015. Now it's in India also.

People have like multiple >> drink Instagram. End of the day.

>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Amazing. Well, thank you so much.

>> No. Thank you. Nice conversation.

Pleasure pleasure to go in your business.

>> Know and learn from both of you a lot.

>> Thank you.