How Gumroad's CEO uses ChatGPT - Ep. 1 with Sahil Lavingia

sometimes like you can say like I'm trying to buy a building and then I was like okay well let me like let me start visualizing like is this the right venue

you're getting into write a book right in real time for you uh it's like a book that doesn't exist like this one city for country is like this essay that I was writing and so I started with this tweet which is like kind of like a

thesis uh and then you know I just say like at three to four uh paragraphs to make the point compelling this is a thing too right sometimes it suggest examples I'm like okay this rule doesn't

actually generalize I have this theory that chat gbt is the most important creative tool of the decade but it's still so early that most of us don't really know how to use it there are a few people though who are living in the future who have the time and the

Curiosity to figure things out those people light the way for us they show us what our future with these tools will look like because they use them every day already that's what this interview series is about we'll go in depth with the most interesting people in the world

so you can see every detail of how they use chat gbt to think write make art art make decisions build businesses one chat at a time my guest on the show today is sahill of India sahill is the founder

and CEO of gumroad one of the largest platforms for creators to sell their work online he's also an active investor and the author of The minimalist entrepreneur I've known sahill for about 10 years and he's one of the most

original thinkers I've ever encountered let's Dive [Music] In welcome sill tell tell us like how you use chat

GPT yeah I mean I saw your Tweet uh initially about how I think you had a poll about how often you use it on a daily basis and I just looked at the app

uh which is primarily where I use chat gpts through their their their uh app which has gotten it's sort of improves by Leaps and Bounds like almost it feels like on a weekly basis um and basically

I was using it like three or four times a day for different things and I was just kind of like surprised by by that but I use it for yeah I use it for all

sorts of things I think of it like there's just no excuse for not like I there's this there's this phrase that often comes up in conversation I really

notice it now which is like I don't understand why and I often hear this right where it's like someone will be talking about some thing and say oh I

don't understand why like Democrats X right or or Republicans do this or or like I don't understand why like Elon like doesn't get like or I don't get why

like uh this and you know I just find that like I just don't I just refuse like that's no there's no excuse for not knowing why anymore right like you can

always ask and so I find that like basically it increases like one I I spend a lot less time on bad ideas I think a lot of people what they do is they have like a to-do list of

like things that they want to to do at some point I don't have a to-do list like I don't have any uh I mean maybe I do I could probably find something but it's like one item long and it's like

right now it's probably says like buy a building like you know it's very like uh you know actually yeah right now

I don't even have that uh you know just literally pick up some groceries from Costco but it's one item um and the and the reason is basically because when I have an idea I can

very quickly invest you know the equivalent of what would have taken like months of of of time to research or weeks and you know and and because I would have to sit down at a laptop and I

would spend like you know like half a day like looking like and then I would have to do that three or four different times and and now I can sort of just like as I'm on the subway or going for a walk in in in Brooklyn or something I

can just ask it a bunch of stuff right CU queue up like all of these sort of like serial research processes and then often most of my ideas are terrible right so like the reason I don't have a to-do list is because I like don't have

that many good ideas but I think a lot of people like they sort of delude themselves and thinking they have like all of these things and and they're like they're on the back burner right and they just have to figure out like how to make the time and this and this and like

but the truth is like if you actually examine the idea like at a pretty decent level you realize it's actually not that good so I think that is one of the most useful things about it is it focuses

your research on like what actually matters uh I think you know it's I think a lot of people have like in their Mind's Eye a really good idea right an essay or a movie or

something but then when they like when the the truth is like it's actually not that good it just you think it you can just like sort of like pretend that it's good when it's not in like a concrete

form right it's like if it's a really good idea like just write it like tell me the idea don't like tell me the log line for the movie like tell me the exact scenes in the movie right and I

think uh Chad gbt it allows you to ask these kinds of questions and basically get to a zero or like is this worth pursuing sort of more um and I think

this drastically changes like a lot of like the like even Investing For example like the bar that a found like a Founder can do so much research in a weekend right that like when they come to me

like the like for example before now like right now for example I'm like buy I'm thinking about buying a building in New York City and that's that's a it's a thought that I have but the amount of

sort of research that I can do fact checking on Lots uh background checks on previous Property Owners the history of of usage for certain buildings zoning

requirements I can visualize what it looks like and it's just the like in you know the the sort of pitch deck that I would be able to create to you know to

raise let's say any amount of money to do this like the bar for what that needs to be now is like it's literally like before like three years ago it would be like and I still get these by the way because you go to Loop net you can find

like the pitches for these buildings right and it's just like seven photos taken with like a Canon and some text and like there like there's just no and I I I think the you won't see the impact

in a lot of things but I think in the top 1% right top 1% of movies the top 1% of hotels like I built like the top 1% of all products will be so much more thought

through uh so anyway that was kind of a rant but that that that think is like a big a huge one is I just find that like the research like I just don't have to I don't have to pretend that like I have like 50 ideas and I need to do them I

can focus on like okay I have Road it has product Market fit you know uh that's really hard I've like I'm I'd rather double down on on on on the things that work um so I think I think

that that that's been really really helpful so what what I'm hearing I think so far is um it's a tool for you when you have a a random interesting idea

that you get really excited about to kind of go deeper on it to I guess filter out ideas that are actually not worth your time or are bad and then also like when you have something that you're

pursuing seriously like buying a building it raises the level of quality of research and um I guess output that you can you can create because it it it puts all the things that you might need

uh at your fingertips is is that a good summary of of of what it does for you yeah I think a lot of doing doing projects out like that have an impact in the real world are like they require

having a lot of conversations with people and so if you can like bring such a like a better level of conversation to your first meeting with like a real estate developer and then your second me with a construction manager your third

meeting with the general contractor like at each level you know you're you're having a a conversation with them you're learning a lot of things that you got wrong basically right and imagine if

like you you didn't get those things wrong you actually brought them like a better plan in the first place they would still tell you a bunch of things you got wrong they would be different better more nuanced things right and so

I think that also I think is like sort of a a value it's like I can show up to a meeting and and people are like how do you know so much about architecture it feel it like like you you've read like

it feels like you've read too many books like not like like the like the and it's like Well Chad gbt just told me right like if you ask a very specific question as as long as I can like frame the

question uh you know I can say like what material was 58 bowy constructed of uh and bring that up with with like the person selling the building and they're like

that is really like there's only one article on the internet like it you you would have had to spend like 15 hours to find that right in a PDF somewhere and it's like well actually Chad gbt just

told me that directly right right right but but the value is to them is like okay you're pretty this guy's serious yeah but but to them it's like this is

the one building I've done this research forh because there's it's not possible to do this for like 50 buildings um but actually it is impossible to like you want you want to like put the level of

work on you know in every in everything that you do and that and you need to to examine if it's actually worth pursuing like which one is is worthwhile right so imagine like if the equivalent of like

every time you buy a piece of furniture you're doing 100 hours of research MH and that means like 100 hours of like actual research like you're you're going to make a lot less bad decisions right

like right you're you're going to buy Le a lot less bad products if you were actually like doing the research um yeah and I think that that kind of

like can extrapolate right like imagine like there like right now I don't think there's a YouTuber who says like I do a 100 to a thousand hours of research every time I buy like a chair or something you know but that could be

possible like I think the like the the types of of content that you will be able to make because a lot of this like humans won't actually do but someone will do it right uh so you you can still

benefit from like a lot of the value of like a better movie without having made the movie yourself right right um yeah well yeah I think this is really cool I think for the building the building

example is one that I'm really interested in like take us through some specific chats that you've had so we can see how how you're doing it so it looks like you started on this dolly one we can start there or if you have other

chats you you think are better to start with like I want to know okay what was in your head where you're like oh this is a great Chat gbt thing and then what what was your first message and and what was the outcome of the

chat yeah I mean so I I think of I think of it like uh you know if you think about high-risk investing generally as you make a thousand bets and one of

those is going to be uh you know your THX return uh ideally 10,000x return or something everything go zero you have like a 10x from right like that's sort

of like the model is this like power law returns so I think similarly with with investing in like a a building in New York City for example is that let's let's say there's a thousand buildings

you could potentially buy that will be listed and and on the market within within some constraints uh in the next three years one of them is the is the

building right and everything else is gone um and so I think a lot of it is just figuring like do stuff like just narrowing down uh like for example I

really believe strongly in the concept of like Network effects uh and and and investing in network effects doubling down on the ones that you have how hard they are to actually

find and so you know things like asking like you know what uh what roads actually ex started to exist first in downtown Brooklyn right like my guess is that like the first roads are still the

most popular roads like the network affected just keeps building even though people may forget uh you know like like basically for example like the first Road in New in New York City is

basically uh Broadway like Broadway and bowry are the same road uh but that's like the before basically the Indians like had that foot path I went basically

through the center of Manhattan um at a diagonal right um so anyway fun fact but it's you know being able to like actually ask and learn about all of the

these things um without having to like traditionally I would go buy like a like a I would get a recommendation from somebody about like a 400 page Kindle book yeah and I would have to go read

that and now I can just like ask it these questions right how did you start that chat history of downtown Brooklyn okay got it so you're you're sort of thinking to yourself okay I'm interested

in downtown Brooklyn as an area I might want to buy um but before I do that I really care about the history I want to know what which roads came first I want to I want to understand that because because the past influences the present

so strongly um but rather than like having to go read like a gigantic book or like do like a ton of Googling there's a you type a couple things into chat gbt here and it gives you mostly

what you want exactly and I think here you know it gave me this like very like Wikipedia ask thing yeah I realized like no what I really want is the origin like

the the real formation event of like you know the the region um and so you know you can modify and it's kind of like you're getting it to write a book yeah

right in real time for you uh it's like a book that doesn't exist yeah but ideally you if you know what you if you're starting to narrow down like what you want what prom you're actually really trying to solve you can like get

the perfect book written for you yeah like this could be have been you know much more specific if I if I was like by the way you know the reason here is to

is to like buy building and so like focus on you know interesting structures that were the first structures that were built or something right um and then it would have focused on like well this steam fairy service like probably had a

building associated with it right right and I mean think you're you're also doing something that I think is really kind of important it which is like um that I think a lot of people Miss is it

gave you an answer originally that you didn't like that much and um and you just told it go again right um and I think a lot of people just give up after

first answer rather than refining and being like hey like do it again in this specific way um I think that's really valuable yeah and it's often like kind

of stochastic right where it's it does often like kind of like investing like nine times it might not be that interesting yeah but every once in a while it has like a really interesting

like fun fact uh like for example like the region of Dumbo is one of the best investments right um in the real stay in the last in the US in the last like 100

years or so uh but if you think about like like even something like just asking at this more specific question if you really pay attention to what it said uh and you were able to like let's say

there was a book that you were reading right like yeah 50 years ago about downtown Brooklyn and it said very specifically like iconic structures like the Brooklyn and Manhattan

Bridges this is basically the reason that Dumbo is so successful is this and it literally uses the word I iic right

so if if if I was even like it like it's it's like the answer is to making a THX return investment is there you just have to kind of see it and ask the right

question and pull it out um and I think like being able to write better and better prompts like this yeah like I'm basically like and and sometimes it's funny like Sam Alman I think he he had

an interview uh and he said someone asked him like how's opening i g to make money yeah and he basically said as a joke uh I think um we're just going to ask the AI

like it'll tell us like the best way to make a money and we'll just do that right like yeah uh but it's it's sometimes like you can say like I'm trying to buy a building like sometimes

people don't even vocalize what they're actually trying to do but if you just say like buy a building in and find network

effects that they have kickstarted decades ago and it just yeah you start to learn like how to sort of focus the K of

vision of of the AI I'm curious like yeah it's I guess it sounds to me like um uh once one of the things you're showing us is once you have a thesis it

helps you do the research to like support or find Opportunities based on that thesis um but I'm also kind of curious um the extent to which it's helped you um identify or refine a

thesis like you have this okay there's one in a thousand buildings um you know I'm I want to buy a building based on sort of the network effect of um how the

area was established um did trbt play a role in that or where did that come from I mean it certainly can I mean th those I think often come like from

that's kind of like the spark you know know like of just like it kind of just appears to you as like an idea um like Harry Potter or like you know at some point the idea I don't know where it

comes from but I do think you can like hold yourself accountable to like is this actually a good idea or not you can tell it your idea and say poke holes in

this and that has been quite useful too right like you can and this is less useful in maybe like the business stuff but I do find that like someone someone I remember someone told me some fact

about about like Israel and Palestine or something and I was like oh that's crazy and then I told somebody else and then I was like wait a second I never actually checked if that was true I just thought

it was like an interesting fact you know like the interestingness was why I was sharing it but then I was also like as part of that sharing like some numbers or whatever uh and then I like looked into it and it like I wasn't able to

find that it was actually true but being able to just like in real time do that right like also I think uh is a way of like just saying hey I learned this fact

is it true or is it not true and like explain why or you know like cite your sources like that that sort of stuff is is is quite helpful um even even like

tweets I have ideas for thoughts I want to share and then I write an essay and I say like is this like what are the biggest holes in this essay yeah and sometimes honestly like sometimes it's like this is a big hole and I'm like oh

yeah right I think of that like like like this one right like this one city for country is like this essay that I was writing and so I started with this tweet which is like kind of like a

thesis uh and then you know I just say like add three to four uh paragraphs to make the point compelling also suggest more examp this is the thing too right it's like if it can sometimes it can't

suggest examples I'm like okay there's there's no point to be made here then this rule doesn't actually generalize um but then you know it kind of like responds with this nice thing and then I

can kind of like edit it and then at the end I can you know uh you know I can sort of decide if it's if it's worth worth doing or not I also think it's a way to like come at like a problem from

multiple angles um right so if you have you can say you know like this idea isn't working but can you come up with different ideas yeah like I'm looking at

Chinatown but am I missing are there places that are more populous right you know and then it sort of can expand like I think of a lot of the the the

innovation in in this new wave of AI as like peripheral vision where it like because of the token the way it works and like you know basically each token in the in the

context like influences the next thing not just like the the the most recent ones yeah um I I think that allows for this like interesting like level of peripheral vision where like you

wouldn't actually see I you see this a lot in a in in dolly for example where I would ask something uh and then it it it it's actually quite interesting how it

gener it shows you like the prompts that it generates um but like let me just see what what did you ask so interior of a social club inside bowy Bank Social Club um and and what was the context like

why' you why' you ask that so you know you know this is sort of like Fast Forward imagine like I'm now refined my search to like uh you know I started getting into more specific areas and I eventually like found this like specific

building I was looking even at like daily traffic so I got pretty close to like this uh so you you ran you you okay you narrowed it down to like a building that you really wanted to look at and

then called 58 baly and yeah exactly and then I was like okay well let me like let me start visualizing like is this the right venue

um like I basically I spent a lot of time on the exterior like the location like okay that's like part one of the thesis now part two is like is this the right building from the interior yeah

like would it have the right Vibes Bic that makes sense and and what was the first so it sounds like you sent an image to chbt the bank building social club one where you were um asking yes

okay so you so you you went in the building you took a tour it sounds like and then you took a picture of it and um and then asked Dolly to come up with or

chat gbt to come up with um prompts for what it what it could look like exactly um I specified I don't know if it actually really used this image that much um I was hoping that it would it would

like generate prompts that would like kind of follow it a bit more but yeah um but one day that that'll that that I think will happen where you'll be able to basically upload you know upload a

photo and ask it to edit it um but basically yeah I just asked it to like give me some prompt generation ideas and then I took this because they are currently two separate models I

basically just took all of these ideas yeah and then pasted it at the top of this or not why was that useful to you like why The Prompt generation ideas

like what what you needed tell me about that I felt like it wasn't like I needed to basically refocus it on what the problem actually wash and the problem

was basically I need a diversity of like prompts but they were all focused on this specific thing which is a social club for creat um in this in this specific area

like to me this is the thesis everything else is a little bit arbitrary yeah um or you know like this this part um and so I basically just wanted to kind of

like Pro like seat it with tokens that were like like interactive digital wall like interesting ideas that like the problem with this is this was basically like too broad and it would just diverge

and then I wanted to kind of like refocus it back on like the the more specific Vision um yeah so I started just kind of asking

it questions and uh getting it to generate like what I thought would would basically what I would like kind of use in a like I I would actually like go out and like hire an artist and like render

stuff um but it's just you know just a way to get like really fast um ideas it's sort of like yeah like um it's sort of the first draft like really quick like as many different things as

possible so you can narrow your search down into like a range of things that speak to you yeah and I think it helps it aids in if you need to communicate with another human being and you can't

like project like I know like in my mind's eye like what it should look like but I can't communicate that with you right without having to spend 10,000 hours learning perspective and Anatomy

yeah like I which I do like I've spent thousands of hours of learning to draw and like I my goal is like I would like to be able to do that too but it's just like Life's Too Short yeah where did you

where did you get to like at the end of this like where did you end up with it what did it give you that you didn't have before for um I mean one it gave me confidence

that this is still worth pursuing that like this it's sort of farther than the 50 other buildings that I've spent time on that sort of thing yeah and

so you know I'm going to go like see it again and like spend more more like basically I'm gonna uh my next step is I'm going to get the basically model I

have the floor plans so basically model the building in 3D and basically design you know like build basically design this whole this whatever this this this

ends up looking like in in 3D space because I think the thing that currently AI like the leap it cannot make is these aren't Bound by reality in any

way right right there's no 3D it's not like it's pixels it's not uh fion coordinate plane or whatever uh that's not the right thing but it's not XZ y

right um and so I think you can Aid uh you know like you can Aid the artist with these materials but at the end of the day you still have to like build the thing perfectly I think of it like it

can't actually write the code for you yeah right like at the end of the day it's not going to actually write the code for you it can kind of give you like the rough like thumbnail of the

code it can often work code is like very deterministic um but there's not enough data at least right now for to be able to like build out like fully 3D you

know what not um but yeah basically I would just like I would kind of like take this and like build it out and then I would uh it's just a way of you know at the end of the day the decision is like buying the building or not which it

doesn't require AI at all right like um it's just like deciding to invest money um but I the quality of the

decisions uh should be much much much better and I just look back at gum R and I'm like man if I was able to like there's just like you know like we updated the pricing the pricing was a

better was so much better and it took like 12 years into the business and you know if we had hard to say what would have happened but let's say this existed and I was able to make like this

different pricing decision because certainly I would have asked Chad gbg like these are the options like what should I what's recommended what are the other what have other people done what have pricing Chang in the past and how were they received blah blah blah all

these sorts of things uh and let's say we got to 10% flat like much sooner that's those was about $70 million in Prof profit margin over the last uh you

know since the life of the company basically uh that's a lot I mean that's but that's not like you know it's just a different decision yeah like it's a different number in one line the code

yeah you um so that's why I think sometimes it's hard to like wrap your head and and you you won't see the impact of AI like you may never even talk to an AI right but like everything

around you is going like the materials I see this uh in specifically in real estate development like talking to people the Imagine like when you're going to be able to Source like I think

every material is going to be sourced from like a much better quality supplier for a much cheaper price because right now imagine you just like most people just go on to like the

single Monopoly marketplace right and it's just like listed on Alibaba Express or whatever and they buy like a pallet of Terra Cotta or something uh but imagine if you could just like you know

you had these AI agents that would like scour the internet uh right for revieww you know and like I I think the the bar for you know for for I mean generally you already see this right I mean like

just think about like uh I think the last Apple keynot was shot on an iPhone yeah and the iPhone is like made of like something like 6,000 different parts so like imagine Apple like to make

something that amazing like it it does have to like research every single you know like they do do that but imagine like that's a trillion dollar company um

if like you're Joe Mo coffee shop could make like 10x 100x better uh supplier decisions on the chairs that you sit in on the you know auler on the coffee you

know on the person making like the coffee pots yeah and I do yeah I don't know I I I walk around and like besides the news like life does seem to be

pretty nice like pretty awesome so I think these this is happening you know um but I think also the inertia of the

existing system is also Mega massive so yeah yeah you could you could generate like a trillion dollars in value and like you're still competing with like right trillion dollars in value so it's

like a 1% bump in the GDP but that's like significant um uh I want to go back to the thing you talked about um a little bit earlier which is this

decision to go flat um for for gumro for flat pricing um which it sounds like uh you know it's a huge sort of multi-million dollar decision for you

over the last 10 years and and the idea that like if you had had Chachi BT like you might have made that decision a bit earlier how do you think about chat BT

in your decisionmaking like when do you turn to it and what is the most useful way to um use it for that and if you have specific chats that you you've done that for I I know we've we've talked about the building but like if you have

specific decisions that you've been making where you've gone back and forth what ch gbt it' be really interesting to talk about that um let me think I mean it's it's

just like a constant hum of of stuff you know that I ask for uh if I'm like deciding where to eat you know I might like that's French toast place right or

like if I'm factchecking something I might ask it something um if I'm looking for something to do on the weekend um if I'm looking for like you know people to

like network with in in New York um all sorts of like small uh small things I mean I don't I don't think there's any um I

mean the yeah I mean I I do think that there is like it's not super useful I think for gum because like the the road map

now is like there's so much in my head that like typing it out to tell you know Chad gbt like give it the context it's just not worth it so I think it's much

better at like new yeah new stuff um so yeah I think it's mostly mostly helpful like for like for for stuff that I'm thinking about not stuff that I'm

already doing I see yeah that that's my that's that's my guess okay that makes sense I do use it in the gum context I do think it it ends up replacing a lot of like I think one one reason bad

decisions are made is that you have a lot of people making the decision right so like the the decision making kind of get it's sort of like the designer makes the design decisions the engineer makes the

engineering decision and the car looks stupid like just like it it has to be kind of this Collective thing um and I think you like this sort of empowers

every single person to be like the PM for example yeah like so the decisions ideally like ideally for example the designer would often prior like we're building Flex out it's this like weird

Equity Dividend complicated thing and before people would have to H me with like how does Equity work stock options 49a exercise stri like all of these

things uh and that's every single person to explain it as a to get it as like a as a customer of the product but then also like if you're imagine you're designing it right have all these questions too and now you can just ask

chat GPT and it'll just tell you and so I think that also I think the quality of the decision is not just by the co of the company but by everybody helps a lot it also means you need less people so the pricing decision I think for example

the more people you have you have you're going to have people who are like emotional and like defend the you know like oh no it's too expensive or and like you know at the end of the day some decisions are hard to make that's like

the role of the CEO sometimes is like to make the hard decisions it's not necessarily like like you know surprising that it worked to a lot of people it's just like yeah oh you did it

wow that's hard um you know you got to deal with some like hate on Twitter or something right um so I think that also like if you are relying on Chad GPT you get rid of the emotional component right

like the people saying like oh no like that's a bad like I mean that might maybe that still happens right like every once in a while AI safety like it does like kind of say like changing the pricing on your users might be a bad

idea you know like it does say stuff like that uh but you know it's better it feels more objective that's the other nice thing is like I I love it for

factchecking my own biases because it tells it like will tell me like you know it'll it'll like for example if I say

like uh I have like some mental model in my head and I but I always use like one example right uh to to go to like explain the mental model like one city per country in like New York City for a

us or something and then if I but if I go to Chad gbt and I say tell me five you know like I just force it to to improv and it only comes up with like

the one example I have I'm like okay there's no good other examples like I should stop using this mental model I need to like discard it in my you know decision- making right um so I think

that that yeah that that has helped uh I think a lot of people like they they want to make a decision uh and then they justify it to themselves why they're making decision and it at least tells you like hey you can still make that

decision you want to make but that's not the reason you're making it like it's yeah you're not making it because of this rational like set of constraints you can codify in ashad GP and it'll tell you like

these don't align with your decision yeah it'll tell you like you know you should move to Dumbo because you're closest am in hand what you say you care about is yeah

to you know commute to vand or something I I have that too I mean one of the things I feel for myself is like as a manager as a leader of every um I'm just

a little too opportunistic like I'll get really excited about a new idea and I'll like kind of want to go in that direction um and I need to be a little bit more sort of strategic where I'm just like okay like here are like

quarterly goals like let's make sure everything we do is like aligning with those goals and I literally just have a thing in my custom instructions that's like right now one of the things I'm working on is I'm a little bit too

opportunistic I'm not being strategic enough here are our quarterly goals and so whenever I get excited about an idea um I'll I I'll always chat with Chachi BT because I think it's really

interesting and it's always like hey like does this align with your quarterly goal and I'm like damn it you're so right like it really helps me helps keep me on track um in a in a sort of and

just that slight little nudge does does a lot for me yeah it's almost like a like a screen time reminder in a way yeah where it's like by the way just reminding you you're you have one core

goal this quarter yeah uh yeah it's kind that's kind of like just reminder you're trying to buy a building like does with that goal or not I love that yeah yeah the other the other nice thing just to

mention quickly is like you can Empower your like certain people like let's say you have someone on your team who's like oh I really want to like explore this thing uh sometimes you just have to like right like in in the prior world you

just say like oh let's like wait like we don't have time or like let's look at it that like next quarter or something uh because it would take like a long a lot of sort of time investment to figure out if it were actually worth doing or not

but now if it takes like I can just say hey like spend five hours this quarter like just literally spend five hours Hing to chat GPT and like pres you know whatever like explore this problem as

much as you can and then the goal for the quarter will be just to evaluate is this worth do and then so sometimes you it's nice because it clears everybody else's head too of the of these ideas

that they may be like sitting on and like oh we should do this and that it's like oh and it's like no just like spend two hours realize it's not that good of an idea or or not and then you know uh

pursue it uh or not so I I find that also is like really like people have less excuses right generally across the company uh when they have this access to

this sort of this tool um and and I I think like the like gumad has like product designers software Engineers customer support people uh who also write all the help center copy and like

that's like I feel like and like fraud and risk review and that to me seems like why like every other role is like Chad GPT like you could just tell an engineer

to use chat GP to get the answer that they would need or you we have lawyers and accountants but they're both third party um yeah I don't know it feels like it just really like you you you you

don't you just don't need as many roles right if something that used to take 40 hours a week now takes five hours a week you can kind of bundle all these roles into one person often the CEO or the founding team or whatever will just do

that yeah um so yeah I think there's a lot of implications for like the how these how companies like the size of the firm and like

how stuff like that yeah I love that I mean I I do think for every like we are able to uh go further with a smaller team than we would than we would have

before and and that feels just really really exciting to me um so um yeah I think uh La last last question I have um

before before we go like tell me more about the writing stuff I know you've been you showed us a little bit of writing stuff if you have any more examples of how you're using it for writing I think that would be really

interesting to um to go through um um sure yeah I can see if I can yeah I mean so this is like one idea is I was trying to figure out like can I get if I can really provide a really

precise thumbnail of what I'm trying to write yeah exactly like the the bits that you know that like even I was thinking of saying like use these three

sentences and like you know so it provides them um but anyway I have the this idea that like there's sort of people who think in terms of logic and people who think in terms of

rhetoric um and the the example I wanted to use so I would prob say use this example specifically

logicians like uh like this uh doing good Rec what

reply so it's kind of like basically like the way that you interpret the sentence um like if you think like like what how would an AI model interpret the

sentence right like a logic someone who's like really logic based would be like okay clearly this is just like some weird thing yeah but you know I don't know someone who's like maybe a little

bit more like caught up in the thing would be like what the hell like you know something like that um so anyway this is like I think a good example and I think it wrote something it's funny because uh the format of Twitter has

changed so much that it hasn't learned some stuff here but and then you know I was like tur into a pay like right but I I attempted it

um you know so this is just an example of like you know is one better than the other um trying to have a conversation with it yeah so you have a little concept and you're sort of using this to

help you refine and pull out like different ways to talk about the concept exactly yeah like just yeah trying to spark sort of spark like basically I'm trying to figure out are

there like three or four interesting little bits right that that demand like a little mini uh post on on X instead of

just like a single tweet right um often often like specific examp examples are like really what I'm looking for because I find that like you know it's kind of like a I think of it

like listening to like a really good Kanye West song like to me like he's a good he's like good at making music but what's really interesting to me is how

like he finds like crazy samples um and and like he just kind of highlights them and so I think of it similarly like I'm like trying to use Chad GP to be like

can I find a really good example that explain this topic that like you know it's kind of like you read a book and everyone sites like the same examples for stuff it's just like in the Z guys like oh yeah 10,000 hours like the

example is like yeah uh I don't know what whatever it would be but uh yeah anyway trying try like trying to trying to find like the the thing that people site actually like that becomes the

thing people site yeah so yeah anyway this is like what it would I I would like it's certainly not good enough that I would I would definitely want to like spend like a

couple hours like editing down but my style of writing is really simple which is like I just edit down words like I just have that thing that's kind of like

contains all of the ideas I want and then I just spend like two hours like do I need this word do I need this word and like right eventually it gets down to something small and then you know and

and so like the ideas may already all be here and then it's just a question of like you know trying to get trying to and I wonder even if like you could say

something like three the above with 90% of the words and like you know kind of recurse this right

like keep asking it um until it has like you know as few looking sounds like yeah it sounds like it's giving you sort of

like it avoids the blank page it gives you some raw material to work with and then you can rework what's there into something that feels like you and has new ideas that you might not have run

into before or new examples that you might not have run into before and um and that just that just makes the whole process a little faster and a little bit cleaner but you're not like just typing

a prompt and then tweeting whatever chbt gives you yeah exactly yeah like there's always not that there's always going to be a need for that but if you're trying

to produce extraordinary stuff yeah you're always going to have a human in the loop right because at the end of the day it's human versus a it's like human plus AI versus AI

yeah so like humans will always have some that they can add on top of Ai No matter how good AI gets like humans will be non zero I think um maybe people will

disagree with that but um yeah I think it's it's useful like here's a here's an example of this kind of thing right where I had an idea I had like one

example and I'm like please come up with more and then it yeah it didn't really you know come up with anything you know that uh that compelling to me so I didn't really

Double Down On It uh or this one's another one oh yeah this is another version of that I really didn't give up it I guess U this is

more great a good a good this is kind of like another framing I often use is like imagine I had like an employee who's like dedicated to working on this project what would I actually ask them to do right like what's the actual like

when you're doing it yourself it's easy to like [ __ ] right right but if you had like on payroll uh like what would they what would they act you know so I would basically ask them like is this you know what Renovations can I make to the

building like this would determine if it's worth bu like this and it took me a while like many days to realize like this is really this is the question I really

need to to be able to answer that you know um at least in the context of of this specific building but generally this is what I realize is I need to buy

a Historic Landmark building and renovate it um yeah that's at least my current thesis so I love it it and it it it actually tells you it even like cited

the uh the URLs and stuff so I need to go you know like read this but it's like it literally tells me exactly it's this one rule title 63 right and that would

take like lots of lots of research or talking to people who are expensive or hard to get to to like find ordinarily yeah or just the possibility that it might right yeah like it could

have been a Google search away but it could have also been like because you know it's like some government document like you don't like you don't know and a lot of people I think they evaluate like the effort and then they just say it's

not worth pursuing it's like the chance of this being a worthwhile project is so low yeah but if you can tweak that risk reward ratio maybe you can get it to a place where you're like oh actually it

does make sense for me to spend like an hour like yeah reading into this um and then basically you know at some point I would like hire someone you know there there's people that you hire that are

basically like a they just visit the site and then they you know they do all the research and they give you a report that's like this is what you can do uh but like they are happy to take your

money to answer all the basic questions right like it's I want that piece of work to be as high quality as possible I also think it it holds me accountable to like do I really want to do this or not

like it's easy to just spend 10 hours like screwing around but if I'm trying to like am I getting somewhere like is the quality of the idea improving right

or am I just like spinning my wheels and I think that's another signal too yeah this is great I've learned a lot um I really appreciate you taking

the time to do it um yeah you you have so many so many good use cases for this um thanks for thanks for sharing with us you're welcome thanks for letting me do it hopefully it was helpful it was great cool

man