How Headwaters Foundation Uses SmartSimple for Learning and Evaluation

[Music] hi everyone um thank you so much for joining us today um so today marks the first day of the Elevate webinar series

and we're so glad that you can make it my name is Cina and I'm the events and client success manager here at smart simple and I'm joined by Steph Schilling

from Headwaters Foundation um I so so appreciate you being here today Steph um we had such a great response from all time presentations at Elevate so we just

knew that we had to get you back um to present to us again um so just before I head over um to Steph just a few housekeeping items we'll have a few minutes at the very end of this webinar

to answer all your questions so please do submit them in the Q&A box at the bottom of your screen and without further Ado I'll hand over to

Steph thanks CLA um thanks everyone so much for being here um and I will just go ahead and get

started all right um so uh I guess I'll start with the goal for today I think my goal for our conversation today is I'm hoping that you will see something in my

presentation that you can take back with you and use in your own instance so what we're going to do today is I'm going to talk a bit about Headwaters foundation

and um how we do learning and evaluation and then I'll show three of the utas we've built in our system and um of course feel free to put questions in the

chat and we will answer them at the end um I'll do a little disclaimer and say that um we are always a work in progress and we don't have everything

figured out I'm going to show you some stuff in our system that's pretty cool but um we're constantly iterating and changing and I'm guessing in a year things are going to look different so um

so yeah I'm here to learn as much as the rest of rest of you um so Headwaters Foundation we are based in beautiful

Missoula Montana where it has currently warmed up to -3 degrees Fahrenheit um we are a healthc care conversion Foundation working on systems change for children

and families in Western Montana um we're relatively new we started making grants in 2018 and we're relatively small um up

until now we've made about an average of 5 million a year in Grants and we have eight staff um however in December our board just approved a new strategic

framework and it's really exciting because we are a systems change funer and they approved a 10-year strategic framework which um systems changeed work takes a lot of time and you can't really

go and change things every five years so it's really exciting for that way and it's also really exciting because um we're essentially doubling our grant making over the next 10 10 years we'll

give um about a hundred million in Grants so really exciting changes happening at headquarters right now um my role at headquarters is I've been at

um at headquarters for exactly five years now and I started as the office manager and um right now my role is I am our grants manager system admin team of

one um I help with learning and evaluation which I'll talk about today um I'm the board Le on and I also help

with Finance stuff so that's a lot so um we at Headwaters like to run a small staff and so we use staff extenders so I'm just going to quickly shout out the

folks who have helped me um build the system that I'm going to show you today um Lisa npca from change manage Consulting um has been hugely helpful to

me when I started as the grants manager um kind of one of the first things I had to do was change our entire reporting process from you know traditional reports to conversation based final

reports and Lisa helped me trained me how to create applications and do things in the system and really help me with that and she's just always a great thought partner um really great with

change management and then um the utas that I'm going to show you today um I work with erran Services Jamie Neil over there is um my person and she is so

helpful and wonderful um again with a thought part parip I can kind of go go to her and be like I need to figure out how to do this and she can you know help me brainstorm ideas of how to do that in

the system and they also have that like really technical coding knowledge that I don't have um so they um they are definitely crucial in building the utas

I'm going to show you today um so back to Headwaters Foundation we are really values our values are here um and we're really a

values driven an organization and that's because we're a trust-based philanthropy organization so trust-based philanthropy has gotten more and more popular so I

don't really need to tell you much about it um and that's great uh sometimes it can get a little reduced down to like multi-year General operating support and

those things are wonderful and we should all do them as much as possible but really at its core trust-based philanthropy is a values based approach that's all about advancing

shifting that power Dynamic that exists in philanthropy where we the foundations have the money so we have all the power and the folks on the ground doing the work have to kind of answer to us so

it's about shifting that power Dynamic and then also about building mutually accountable relationships so what that means is it's present in everything we do um

Headwaters we're a very relationship based organization like I said our gr um reporting is all done through conversations and our program team are

on the ground in the communities meeting people building relationships we also really focus on internal relationships and spend a lot of time in staff culture

work trust Faith philanthropy is also present in like our HR policies the way the CEO interacts with us the way the board and staff interact all of these um

these are trust bases just in everything we do and what I would say that means for me as a grants manager one of my

takeaways has been to um always start with our values and build our processes and systems from there basically don't let the limitations of the grants

management system or other processes hinder and um affect your values and the way you want to operate and ultimately that is why we started with smart simple um we've been

with smart simple since the beginning because they were the only grants management software provider that allowed us to think more expansively and kind of focus more on the relationships and less on compliance and the grant but

um allowed us to like kind of think about all of the work as a whole and how we could track that in the system so water so a question that we often get

with with um trust-based philanthropy is how does your learning and evaluation how does your measuring evaluation and learning whatever you want to call it how does that look with trust-based

philanthropy um well in traditional philanthropy I think we know like the foundation sets the metrics of success and then nonprofits must track those metrics and prove that they are meeting

them and our CEO has Decades of experience in philanthropy mostly as a program officer and she saw that that did didn't work um she saw that the the

nonprofits were kind of telling the foundations what they wanted to hear but having to kind of do their own separate evaluation because they defined success

different than the foundation did and so it just she saw didn't work so we're a systems change fun as I've said and so we wanted to create a theory of change

that would clarify what needed to change and um what what not what we thought needed to change but what the community thought needed to change and um what

everyone hopes to see as a result of those efforts so we did that a little bit differently than um than usual we started in the community so we had

Consultants help us they went out into the communities that we serve and talked to folks and ask them things like what does what does success look like for you

what do you what you know what kind of CH changes do you want to see in your Community what what do you need from a foundation and then we we took all that we heard and came back and then from

there created our theory of change so this is it but please don't try to read it it's a lot a lot is going on I'll just kind of describe it really

quickly um basically on the left is like how and why we work in that pink and red and then in the center in that Circle that's what we heard from the community this is the outcomes that they hope to

see from from our work in Western Montana and in the center you can see is that increased capacity and Leadership for systems change so like basically the

nonprofits told us you know if we don't have the capacity and the leadership and we're not able to pay our folks we can't do anything else like we have to focus on Survival first and so that's why that

is in the center and that's you know one of the major things we do is increased capacity for these organizations and then other things that they wanted to see um were things like like stronger

relationships and coordination between um or orgs from different sectors underrepresented voices engaging and policy advocacy um they wanted to see more

funding of course for social determinants of Health in Western Montana um things like that and then at the bottom you can see everything is built on that Bedrock of trust-based philanthropy and

Partnerships and then over on the right in the Orange is we hope over time to contribute to an increase in Health

Equity in Western Montana that's why we're doing this um so when we created this theory of change we also created a

learning and evaluation framework that said that kind of helped us answer the question of why why are we doing this evaluation what is the purpose and um

and it also from there we created a learning book which is how we share out externally our our learnings it's it's

internal and external um but um it's how we share out what we're learning every year with with the community with the board it's on our

website and this is the reason these are the reasons why we evaluate and this is um how our learning book is broken up into categories

so we evaluate for accountability um I mentioned earlier that's a major part of trust-based philanthropy is that mutual account accountability and so we don't

just expect we we want to be accountable to to the nonprofits to the community to our board to ourselves um and so that's really important to us and so we put

that up front um and I'll talk a little bit about that more when I show our beyond the check UTA and then the second reason why we evaluate is to learn about

progress towards those outcomes that I just showed we kind of want to we want to know what's happening around those outcomes and that is mostly narratives

narrative data it's qualitative data it's stories things like that because again this is systems change work so you know we're not unfortunately like counting how many people we serve or

anything like that we're more like learning about what's happening and then kind of relating that to the outcomes and then the and I'll talk about more that talk more about that when I talk

about our outcomes UTA and then the last um reason why we evalu is to track long-term Health metrics and um this is

externally externally available population level data that we just kind of keep an eye on um things like data from like kids count or the census where

we're not like attributing our work to um to changes that we see there but we're just kind of watching to see what happens um in those in those um population level data and if we see some

changes then we can kind of dig in a little deeper see what's happening possibly change your grant funding but it's more just like a monitoring kind of seeing what's

happening um so let's go back up to the top and um learning for accountability and I'll talk a little bit more about that and

how we've measured that so this is again um a big part of trust-based philanthropy here's a great quote from bi3 just talking about how mutual

account ability is is present in trust-based philanthropy so this is all about us living our values and if we're in relationship with grantees we want to be responsive to their needs we want to

do we want to make sure we're doing what we say we do um one of the things that we say we do is Provide support beyond the check this is like a fundamental

part of trust-based philanthropy is providing support beyond the check um to grantees and so if we're going to say we're going to do that we were like we should probably be tracking this and and

because this is a way we can be accountable this is this is a data we can track and um so we started tracking it um we started an Excel spreadsheet

and just kind of tracked it for a year and just to see what folks were doing what staff were doing as far as beyond the check work and after a year we um we all got together and talked about it and

decided that this is something we want to continue tracking and so we built a UTA in smart simple and I will show that

now uh so today I'm going to show a combination of live demo and some screenshots just because it is the beginning of the year so a lot of things are empty you can see thanks Ashley for

entering you're beyond the check this year but she's the only one um so um there's just not a lot of data to show so I'll show some screenshots as well

but so this is our beyond the check UTA it's really simple just l1's um and each L1 or each type of L1 is like the different categories that we've

kind of decided that we're going to um break our beyond the checkup into so these are things like um hosting convenience and meetings putting on meetings for other funders to get

together to Hope um in the hopes that we increase that funding available for social determinant of Health in Western Montana or um last year we put on a um a

workshop for grantees we flew in a guy from Philadelphia and he did this really great workshop on narrative change on um teaching the you know teaching folks and us how to like how to work with

narrative change um also our CEO is meeting is always meeting with nonprofits to talk about things like board management or um introduce them to

other funders or help with leadership things like that um other things like we share tools like spreadsheets our CFO is kind of a genius when it comes to Excel

and so we share some spreadsheets like Financial stuff that we've um created with grantees just anything we can do to make their lives easier um and provide

that support outside of the grant also things like setting them up with our legal councel to give um our legal councilors she's really incredible and has a great way of not getting too

bogged down in the compliance and legal part of things and like what do we need to do to to make everyone able to do their work in in the easiest way possible and so we often um have her

talk to our grantees about if they want to get their own 501c3 things like that and then we pay for the pay for that service um so our

beyond the check UTA we enter all that I was just telling you about here and um each type has slightly different

questions um I wanted to make this as easy um and simple as possible for folks to enter the data because um I wanted them to enter the data

um so like the blogs one has a little bit different so if we publish a Blog a Blog externally or um write a letter to the editor or things like that we like

to track that here um so go back to this one so I'll just run through this really quickly um we use Smart simple as our CRM so kind of a cool feature of if you

do if you track other things outside of the Grant in your system is you can kind of connect everything in the system so um we can look at beyond the check in

our beyond the check UTA or I could go to this grantee and say oh hey look at this we provided them with 27 beyond the check over over time and we can then dig in a little bit deeper to see what this

was um just a another way to look at things and just something that I thought was pretty cool so then it's a pretty

simple UTA again um and then again this work is contributing to the outcomes in our theory of change and so we did a link a linked list view where you can

link your um your beond the check with whatever appropriate outcome or outcomes and this connects it to the outcomes UTA which I will show

next um so yeah that is our beyond the check we um do have the system sends out via workflow an email to staff on the first of every month saying hey please

enter any beyond the check that occurred that month so that way folks remember to get their stuff entered all right um and then I am

going and and um just some very ugly data visualization but um here is just some examples of like how we look at that data so looking to see how um how

the how our beyond the check work contributed to the outcomes in our theory of change um and then you know the thought partnership that we're providing who are who are we providing

it to and say you know this was like billable time and we are billing folks for this how much are we kind of saving saving the nonprofits this is just kind of data that we look at and show our

board and sometimes put in our learning book just so we kind of have a better understanding of of what we're all doing as a staff for our beyond the check and and how it can

improve so okay so well I'm gonna explain this what this is but basically as you um from our

beyond the check we have um a we enter the outcomes we connect the on the checkw workk to the outcomes and then we also have um in submission manager we have applications and reports and those

are connected to our outcomes and then we have surveys we have all sorts of basically basically we have all sorts of data kind of coming into the system that's connected to our outcomes and so

we wanted a way to look at that on the outcome level and so we built this outcomes UTA This was um built from the idea of a

goals tracker it's kind of a standard I don't know if you would call it standard but it's like a it's a standard smart simple UTA um that you could see if you

ask GG for a demo um and ours looks like this this one I'm going to do screenshots because it's pretty empty right now because we haven't really closed out any grants grants and stuff

kind of get connected to this UTA um on Clos status so um again it's a really simple

UTA each outcome um is a type and again just l1s and then when you go into the outcome you can see a little bit more about it so for example here's like the

learning questions for this outcome just so we like you know kind of keep that in mind when we're entering data and then you can see like the various like or you can you could click

in to see the linked l1s linked reports or linked applications and linked reports for that have been connected to this outcome and then each tab has

slightly different data so we're pulling data into this outcome from um formulas and reports and then also that linked list view that you saw in the beyond the

check so here's um kind of some more of those tab so you can see here like the different types of reports broken down for this outcome um here is that

narrative data that I was talking about all of that qualitative data um this is final report data that has been connected to this outcome and so that way we can kind of look at it and just

kind of see what's happened across all of our grantees for the year um on this outcome and then we do have a little quantitative data things like we ask

grantees if they've um experienced an increase in C staff capacity and so we track that here this we actually stopped asking because we realized it was kind

of not at all useful but um but that is there um I do think a learning that we've had from doing this for I think

it's been two years now is it can be a little hard to track um outcomes on the grant level you know like outcomes are kind of they're a little bit bigger and

things are happening in the grant but it's um our program team gets a little kind of sometimes um has a hard time like picking out exactly what is

happening from that outcome in one individual Grant and we're trying to think of a way to like kind of pull up and do um do this at a higher level so

look at what's happening by outcome kind of over the whole Grant or by like portfolio so that's something that will probably change here this

year and then we have um this is like our learning book dashboard we we love a dashboard and um a lot of this data just goes right into that learning and

evaluation Data Book that we put out every year so and it tracks it obviously um throughout the year so you can see like it just rolls up the beyond the check kind of some standard things you

want you would expect to see um and then like it tracks how many grants were closed in the active year by outcome um

we do ask grantees like how much dollar how many dollars how much how many dollars they've leveraged from their Grant and we track that here um this

dashboard kind of um sums it up for us over the year so yeah okay so that is our um outcomes UTA and then the last UTA I'm

going to show is our events UTA and I'm not going to get like super into it because I think there's a lot we we got um the idea from other great foundations

like Montana Montana Healthcare Foundation Vader Foundation um the event UTA is a pretty um normal one to have but I just wanted to share we had um

kind of a cool thing that we figured out um as a way to make it work so anyways we when we're in relationship with

grantees um we heard that there is not spaces in Western Montana to have events to um have meetings and

we actually experienced this ourselves like it you would be surprised at how few spaces and Western Montana have like a functioning Zoom like have a functioning video screen where you can

have a meeting and do a zoom so um so we bought uh right in the beginning of the pandemic we bought a building in Downtown Missoula um a nice historic

building and we finished remodeling it at the beginning of last year and opened it up um the top floor is our offices and the bottom floor is an event space

so we wanted to create an event space for nonprofits to use for free that had really excellent technology so folks can zoom in from anywhere another thing

about Montana you might not know is it's enormous um to drive like even north to south in the state is I can't I don't even know how many hours so Zoom is like

a really nice thing to have here because because the distances are so great so in our event space you can kind of see and hear everyone um if you're zooming in um

for a meeting it has a commercial kitchen it has a really nice backyard space so yeah it's just a great space for for grantees and nonprofits to use and obviously if we're going to build

this um and we use Smart simple as our CRM the natural place to track um what's happening for for the events and so we can see like the impact that it's having

is through smart simple right like that that just makes the most sense and so I was really excited to build this UTA um but there was like a little bit of a

problem and that was our CFO was insistent that there' be a calendar on our website where someone could like just look at a date and see what rooms

were available he didn't want our events manager to just like be spending all of her time like answering calls like is it Avail available on April 5th no so um so

this was like a requirement however smart simple doesn't really have like a calendar feature that could do that and so um it was a little sad of a

moment for me like all right we're going to have to build this in a different um different program and it's not going to be connected to the orgs we're never going to be able to like track it um in

the way that we would if we were doing it in smart simple but I was able to work with erran services and our web developers and find a solution and that

solution is O data so me just find um so here's our website so basically um I'm sure you're probably

familiar with o data but it's just um a report in smart simple that is um giving information about different events uh about all the about events and different

statuses so things like time date room and um through OD dat that report just feeds to our website every hour and tells our website essentially what's

happening for events so we can then have this calendar that is connected to Smart simple in a way so you can just click on

a date just like our CFO wanted and then you could see okay well today or tomorrow um it looks like only this small room is available so you could

click in here just confirm and now you're in a web page view form or whatever this is called that I never remember remember the name of but basically this is a um a web page

view form that once I fill it out and hit submit then it will go into smart simple go here into our event space manager's home

portal and there she can see um any inquiries that we're getting and she can approve and deny as needed and then um folks are able to sign their space use

agreement in their smart simple portal um the system after um after event moves the system automatically closes an event and moves it to completed status the day

after at 9:00 a.m. and then at that point the system sends out a survey to the um to the event host to say you know to ask how things were going um and it's all just in here which has been really

really great um I'll show you just to things that I also thought were kind of cool um that you might be able to use

maybe and this was um for example um this previous grantee we wanted a way for our event space manager to just know just by looking at

this event record not having to click anywhere else if this was a previous grantee so um what erran services did is um created a formula that looks at the

organization and um looks at this organization and sees if they have had um more than zero grants and if they

have then it's a yes um in green and if it's zero event or zero um grants then it's a no and so that just really makes it um really easy for for the event

space manager to know without looking if it's a previous um grantee or not and then we also we also wanted something like in case the grantee um or in case

the event host trashes the place or something happens and we don't want to have them um host an event anymore then we can do this um this little flag here

and what this does is it triggers a workflow if I hit this it triggers a workflow that updates a field in the OR profile and would say set this to no and

then um it's in the orb profile and so I could change it back and um change it to to yes so I thought that was kind of a cool little feature um and then I will just show

you for all of our events we have again we love a dashboard so we're just track how many events we've had so far this year and how many attendees and then just the survey responses that we're

getting back um and again how does this relate to the outcomes in our theory of change and our issue

areas um so yeah that I think is I'm going to stop my share and um see if there are oh

actually hold on I just kidding I'm G to share again really quick well just forgive me because I must have ended my slideshow but um I wanted to put my email address here um

if anyone is interested we do have a slack Channel um it's a just a great place for smart simple users if you like have questions or just want some moral support um from other smart simple users

from all over the place um it's been great it's really really helpful there's some really really smart people on there um and so just send me an email if you would like and I would be happy to add

you so now I will stop the share and see if there's any questions hiks St um that was great thank you so much and folks there still is time to get your questions in I can

see there's a few coming in there at the moment so I'll start with those but um we should get around to everyone um anyways so okay um so how do you collect

surveys is it through smart simple as an L2 or Anonymous anonymously through an outside service like Survey Monkey yeah

both um so yes we do have a um like in the events manag manager we have surveys that smart simple sends out and then um in like our grants manager submission

manager at um paid status of a grant we send out a survey that is like just kind of how was how was this process for you was it smooth you know signing the grant

agreement was the um application was all that smooth so we have that and then we also um do the grantee perception report every five or so years which is um like

an external survey so that way we can get like a thirdparty look and in the hopes that folks will be um a bit more candid and really tell us how they feel

rather than just like paying them and being like do you like us so um so yes folks what is the name of the vendor that you work with was it ER Trend

Services yeah ER Trend Services yeah they are great as far as like providing the thought partnership and they can do that technical stuff because I just

didn't didn't have it in me to to like learn to be a coder um so yeah um how do you generate dashboards

in smart simple oh um golly um I don't um I can like edit a dashboard but I don't know if I can create a dashboard we need like platform

solutions for that yeah we need it's gonna be in your roles in security you know it's your user roles um it's like making a portal I believe

and then you just um you know for you know you set your x value and your y value for your graph so it's like it's like a lot of different things going in it's basically like a portal

where you have different things coming into the system and you kind of just organize it yeah I can show yeah and and as well for those questions as well please do send over those questions to

platform Solutions at smartsimple.com as well we're happy to take take those on board so please do follow up with us as well um okay so um how did you decide on what kind of Consultants to work with to

hear from the community how do the relationships work to make decisions yes um so we used FSG um they we so to find

a consultant to do that to create like our learning and evaluation framework we wanted PE someone who like understood trust-based philanthropy and was able to

like kind of think different ly and not not just do what everyone else does to just like let's try something new and see how that works um so just like a lot

of talking to them and you know getting the proposals getting the Scopes of work and kind of just seeing who who seemed like the most flexible and the most willing to think differently what was

the second part of that question um screw on sorry um how do the relationships work to make decisions oh yeah um like well be basically I think I understand what that

is asking um the FSG went into the communities and talked to we we always kind of put their

feedback first the community's feedback first and really just created the theory of change from there it it does seem to work out pretty well there's not really

instances where we're like we disagree with them completely you know so um so we didn't really have to have to encounter that I think there's some of

the um I think there's one outcome in the theory of change in particular that we've we've kind of struggled with because um it's the service availability one increasing service availability and

since we're a system change fun we've had a hard that you know obviously came from the community and that's important to them but we're we have had a hard time like kind of connecting that to the

systems change but I think it all comes back to like if you're if you're offering services to the community then you're in relationship with them and then from

there you can build them into like um folks who would go and speak speak in front of um in front of the legislative session or things like that and so I think that's kind of how we're looking

at it but that one you know has been a little bit difficult um for us I guess if that helps um are there incentives for the granes to come back to the system after

the project has been finished M to come back into smart simple yes we so yeah we don't really

do they it's amazing how if it's like a survey it's it's been amazing our response rates like we usually get like over 70% response rates from surveys um

I think because of that relationship They Know will'll listen I think you know if they know you'll listen then they tend to answer a little bit better but other than that there's really no

reason for them to go into the system um because we kind of do all the work um we we you know have the conversations and then we enter the data into the system

um that way so they don't really have to go into the system yeah okay and the surveys are like a link you know like SPS out surveys that are a link and so you don't even really have to go into

the system then you just click the link yeah for sure okay so last one unless someone unless you want of um anyone else wants to ask any more questions but um how does your organization approach

outcome track tracking is it primarily managed within the system or do you often rely on external methods yeah so that again that is something that it

it's in the system and it's also it it's so much narrative data it's so much qualitative data um so unfortunately I think a lot of it kind of tends to live

in the heads of our program team like it's in the system but but then when it comes to creating that learning book um it's hard to find time to analyze

properly all that qualitative data um so that is something that we want to work on I think we'd like to incorporate the AI into smart simple so that way um

you know that could just happen there I think since we already have we're already pulling all the all the data for each outcome I think then this you know AI could just summarize it for us and

that would be a beautiful integration so kind of what we're hoping for because right now it's a little overwhelming and we just don't have the time or the staff really to do that so that's something

that we're looking at changing um when we're when we're making all these changes this year okay great oh sorry I think we have one more sorry I'll just

uh scroll down okay sorry when uh deciding to use um interum Services um how uh sorry how are they chosen how many external Partners does

your organization have um I'll just answer the last part first so I don't forget um external Partners like grantees yeah yes okay yeah um uh at any

given time I mean at any given probably it's probably 130 um at any given time we have a smaller grant program which is our go

grants which are really fun and cool and um that we give about 70 of those annually and then we have our other grantees so um so yeah any given time

I'd say about 130 external grantees and then with the events now that's bringing in folks that you know aren't necessarily a fit for our grant program but they are able to have space you know

to have an event at our space so that's bringing in more people so that's kind of cool um and then Eran Services

um I found them from one of these webinars and and um and I thought what they were showing an event event UTA

that they had built with our friends over at Montana Healthcare Foundation and um so I was like oh that's cool and so I started talking to them and I just

the thought partnership is what I really need you know I'm a I'm a team of one and so it's really nice to have someone else to talk to that understands A system that can like help me brainstorm

things and so that was crucial for me and um and yeah that I think it just it just kind of worked and Jamie is just she's just truly amazing she's just so

good at her job and it's like so I'll basically if Jamie is at Eran Services I will use Eran Services Fair um okay and then just a comment um Lisa says

outstanding session so thank you so much Steph for joining us today really appreciate it great questions everyone as well thank you so much for being here um like like I said uh questions like that around our platform please do

follow up with platform Solutions at smartsimple.com step I don't know if you want to call out your email real quick again yeah yeah it's Stephanie s Headwaters mt.org I can should I put on

the screen for sure okay yeah let me [Music] sh um yeah please feel free to reach out at any time um and if you're doing something cool in your system I would

love to see it and please um email me to join the slack and yeah thank you so much thank you again really appreciate it um our recording guys will follow um

probably at the end of this week so if you have missed anything or if you just want to look back over again this this webinar I'll send out a recording at the end of the week um Steph again really appreciate your time thank you so much

for joining us today thanks everybody bye now bye