How Kennedy Ekezie Built a $10M Company at 21

I'm a young person. I'm just a young person. Oh, my parents were not wealthy.

person. Oh, my parents were not wealthy.

I didn't go to a good school. I grew up in Nigeria. Come on.

in Nigeria. Come on.

>> By 22, he'd raised $8 million in venture capital and built one of Nigeria's fastest growing fintech startups.

>> When I actually go to do the thing, I realize a lot of our fear is actually imagined.

>> From humble beginnings to scaling global impact, he's proof that bold ideas and relentless hustle can change the game.

What are three four things that you think that they should look out for to determine if an idea is worth pursuing?

>> One is righteous anger. And what I mean by righteous anger is >> what were some of the challenges that you experienced as someone who was building that early in life.

>> There's things that I probably would have done differently. For example, you have to conquer yourself first. There

were eight things I wrote that a successful founder must do.

>> I'm like your Bulgarian classmates.

What am I doing with my life?

In a world where creativity knows no age limits, and building something meaningful often means battling doubts, fear, and uncertainty, Kennedy's story reminds us that it's possible to dream

big and build powerfully, even when the odds are stacked against you. This

conversation pulls back the curtain on the tough moments behind the winds. So,

the sacrifices, the pressures, the silent battles that many creators and builders face. We'll dive into how

builders face. We'll dive into how Kennedy defines resilience, how he decides what ideas are worth pursuing, and the mindset that keeps him anchored even when the noise gets loud.

>> Kennedy, welcome to the show. It's so

good to have you here today.

>> Yeah. I'm in the midst of legends, so what what can I say?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your

styling as usual.

>> I'm trying to be like you.

>> Well, I mean, everybody's trying to be like you.

>> You know, he's deflecting. He's the real world captain on this one.

>> Thank you so much. Honestly, it's great to be here and um I think we're going to have a fun conversation. So, for us, of course, let's jump right into it straight up. So, help us make sense of

straight up. So, help us make sense of where you are now by just taking us a few steps back. was something about success that a younger Kennedy believed that current Kennedy does not believe

anymore.

>> I think younger me had a very strong sense of success as being something that was tied to purpose and that rings true

but I think younger me still definitely prioritized material also financial success and gave it a little more weight than it should have had. And of course, I mean, I grew

have had. And of course, I mean, I grew up in a very small town. My parents are teachers and civil servants as it were.

So, there's a tendency for you to prioritize what you don't have.

Attribute so much importance to it more than is necessary. So, that's definitely something. But I would say, you know,

something. But I would say, you know, like when I was growing up, and I've shared this a little bit before, maybe even personally with both of you, I wanted to be a pastor when I was a child. And then at some point, I wanted

child. And then at some point, I wanted to be a footballer. Those were the two main things I wanted to be when I was a child. And thinking back, I really

child. And thinking back, I really admired the the propensity for influence that both people had. I admired seeing posters on the road with pastor's faces

on it and watching pastors preach on TV and even going to church uh local assembly at the time and you know just how much influence and I knew there was a part of me that I wanted something of

that sort and I don't think I knew why.

Of course with footballers I remember the very visceral emotions I had when I watched the super goals. That's what I mostly watched when I was a child play and like oh my god there's thousands of people gathered watching them and they

dictate how people feel and >> there was something about me that was drawn to that in some sense. So that

those were sort of the early pictures of success that I had and in the household I grew up in my my parents academics and

we the sort of people that we believed were successful were people who were doing very well in their careers. They

always made us you know made references to people like Shimanda like Philip and Magui people like that as people who were successful. So those were our role

were successful. So those were our role models for my siblings and I when I say we for what success was and that was imprinted in my mind very early on but I

think I waited gave too much weight to financial success um more than was necessary.

>> Sounds like you were in your early years you were already kind of thinking about your life trajectory at such an early age. Yes. Non-conciously that I wasn't

age. Yes. Non-conciously that I wasn't conscious of the fact that I was, but it was just there somewhere.

>> Yeah. Which kind of leads me to just asking about the fact that you started building early. I think you built Kipa

building early. I think you built Kipa when you were 21. 21, 22, 21, right?

What were some of the challenges that you experienced as someone who was building that early in life? So, not

necessarily your general challenges, but just like as someone who's building early and and how did you navigate those?

>> Yes. So when I started building Kipa, I was 21 and I didn't necessarily think of myself as young or trying to do something that I'm not supposed to do.

It was never the case that I thought, oh, this is something reserved for people who are older, >> but I'm just going to take this leap anyways. Of course, it was challenging

anyways. Of course, it was challenging in the way building anything meaningful is challenging. But in hindsight, when I

is challenging. But in hindsight, when I think back now, of course, there's a number of things that were very age specific and maybe I'll structure it into internal and external. So, of

course, from my own levels of maturity, there's things that I probably would have done differently. When you're

young, you don't have as much mastery over your own intuition. So, when I think back now, there are decisions that, for example, hm, something is off.

I should not hire this person. But I

went ahead to do that and I learned the hard way. I shouldn't walk with this

hard way. I shouldn't walk with this person or I could be I could make this decision differently. I could be more

decision differently. I could be more disciplined in this direction and less rigid in this other direction. Just some

of those things that when you're 21 or very young, you don't have mastery over your your own emotions in that sense and your own intuition. So that's definitely a real challenge. And I think for

everyone who is creating anything, you you have to conquer yourself first.

There's a lot of the battle is with your own self before you even go out. Like

you you're likely to kill whatever it is you're creating with your own hand than external challenges and other people not believing in you are. So I think that internal mastery was not as

sophisticated. So that was one very big

sophisticated. So that was one very big challenge. And of course externally I

challenge. And of course externally I remember very vivid stories of someone we were trying to hire. He was an Egyptian engineer. He's quite senior um

Egyptian engineer. He's quite senior um about one year into building and he's just like, "Nah, I'm not I'm not going to come work for you." He was so rude.

He was over LinkedIn. And he's like, "Yeah, I I looked at your LinkedIn profile. You graduated from university a

profile. You graduated from university a few years ago. Like I don't believe you.

Oh my god, that I felt so bad. Like I

didn't want to admit it to my co-founders but >> it really hurt my ego. I'm like, "Oh my god." Like, you know, is it cuz I'm

god." Like, you know, is it cuz I'm young? But of course, for me, I never

young? But of course, for me, I never really take things like that too personally. And whether you like it or

personally. And whether you like it or not, there's people who don't take you seriously. They would not tell you that

seriously. They would not tell you that they don't take you seriously, but you can perceive it. They would look for other reasons to say no to you when you have requests, when you know you're trying to get their help, but they don't

really believe that you can do it. Um,

they'll look for a light to tell you.

Um, but that's also part for the cost.

And one of the things that I learned and one of the aspect of maturity built in me was you don't even need everyone to say yes. It's also not a realistic thing

say yes. It's also not a realistic thing for everyone to love and take you seriously and be a fan of you and think you're going to win. That's not

realistic. No one has that experience.

But like I said, if you conquer your own internal inhibitions in a way that's >> realistic enough, it's a hard thing to do when you're young. You need so much knowledge. You need experience.

knowledge. You need experience.

>> Absolutely.

>> And when you're 21, like who has time to, you know, you're not thinking that deeply. And but once you conquer those,

deeply. And but once you conquer those, then you're off to the races. these

other external things matter a lot less um in my opinion.

>> Yeah, that's that's really interesting how you navigated all of that. I went to school really early.

>> Yeah.

>> So, so I had the same cuz I didn't build a keeper at 21, but I went to school really early and I was always the youngest person in my class, but because I didn't have experience and maturity

and you know to know how to navigate all of that, I I let it affect me. I think

my inner child died a very early death cuz I didn't used to let myself play cuz if one of the bigger kids was playing around it was just you know they were cool so whatever they did was cool if it

was me it was like that's that's a child playing you know so I became this very serious person and I think in a lot of ways it influenced who I am now but it

also killed a part of me like I had to learn to play again in my 20ies we discovered that a lot of you who watch and enjoy these videos are not subscribed to the channel. We never want

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And now that makes me want to ask you, how did you navigate other people underestimating? Cuz you didn't

underestimating? Cuz you didn't underestimate yourself. You fully felt

underestimate yourself. You fully felt like I belong here, but when other people don't feel the same way, there's a way in which it can affect how you

start to view yourself or how you start to operate in the world. How did you navigate that?

>> If anything, I would say for me it maybe even happened the other way around. I

think I was blessed that more people that I surrounded myself with >> believed in my potential.

>> They thought that I could go on to do things that were, you know, that were meaningful with my life.

>> Around you, who who are you referring to? mentors, my parents, big believers,

to? mentors, my parents, big believers, my siblings, some of my friends at the time, and I I grew up in a small town, so I didn't have a big social network,

and neither was I even trying to at the time, but I think the people of course because they were mentors, they believed in me. So maybe it was just a very

in me. So maybe it was just a very special type of creating that I did. But

what I realized was I still had that small town mentality. I grew up in Calaba. When I launched into the real

Calaba. When I launched into the real world, it almost always felt like I had to catch up with where I was. My my

psyche had to catch up with, oh, this is the reality of your life. You have to catch up. On the outside, people think

catch up. On the outside, people think that, oh, yeah, of course, like you believe this about yourself. But I

realized that for a while on the inside, it wasn't that way. I went I lived in Beijing for two years and I remember when I 2018 when I moved to China and you know I went I was I was in grad

school at the time and just hearing my classmates tell me what I was the youngest person in my class. I got into grad school when I was 20.

>> Hearing my classmates >> You got into grad school when you were 20?

>> At 20. Yes. So I started at 20.

>> I like how you stopped to emphasize >> grad school when he was 20. Okay. Um and

so hearing them and it was a court of very competitive people. We were 99 in our class from about 30 35 countries or something like that very highly accomplished. It was a very selective

accomplished. It was a very selective program. Then I got selected to do the

program. Then I got selected to do the convocation speech on behalf of my class. when we were matriculated like

class. when we were matriculated like that when you're you know we were starting out and I did not know what people thought of me until they were drunk at night and telling me like oh my god like Kennedy like you make us feel

like we've done nothing with our lives and I did not believe that for one second but I'm like oh they are drunk and they're telling me this so that must be true like you know there's no inhibitions right now but I had to

actually believe this is who you are like step into that you're no longer this kid who is the youngest person in your class who's going to a school in a very small town and the big the world is

out there and the the extent of the world that you know is the stories your parents tell you and the dreams and aspirations you have now you're here can you actually just catch up are there

areas in your life where you need to get more mature where you need to step into more fully and own that and I think I think it took me a while to do that and I realized that some of the people now

thinking about it who maybe underestimated me or they probably perceive that.

>> They perceive that. They perceived when I was afraid. They perceived when I was acting smaller than >> and thinking smaller than I probably should have. Um so maybe they were just

should have. Um so maybe they were just very perceptive cuz maybe they were like that. That was the challenge that I

that. That was the challenge that I experienced for the most part.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And and I feel like you know when you're on that early consciousness journey right where it's like there's early leadership early consciousness you're growing you know at a faster pace

internally mentally in comparison to like your peers at that point there's certain opportunity costs and there are certain sacrifices right that occur so in my case for example because I was one

of those people who was you know really good at pretty much everything right music great sports I was good at right academics I was good that and what came

with that was that my first never seemed like the best thing. So people wouldn't celebrate something that that I would I would put in effort into doing. So like

I would come I would come out tops at something and people would say is it not you know somebody else somebody else doesn't need to come tops and like they would get the applause. They celebrated

they get the applause and I found that to be similar just across my life's journey right even into my adulthood. It

doesn't matter what I do. The response I always get is it's adora. So it's it's norm. Yeah, it's normal. It rings

norm. Yeah, it's normal. It rings

through. It definitely rings uh true till now, you know. I I think it's just a you know, it's adora and and that's because you're always sort of ahead of your peers in many in so many ways, you

know, and so I wanted to ask you just for you, what were some of those, you know, sacrifices that you had to make that people didn't necessarily see on

this journey? So you talked about for

this journey? So you talked about for example how um your peers after the the after you had given the commencement speech you know you heard the things that they said about you later on that

evening. What are the things that you

evening. What are the things that you were giving up for example in the background or things that you had to deal with that nobody saw? One of them

is similar to what you mentioned.

You have to be I I felt like I had to be on.

>> I felt like because there's an expectation for you to have a great deal of success with whatever you do, then

it's taken for granted in some sense.

The applause, the the the public validation that other people get, it's you. you don't really need that. Cool story. I was when I

need that. Cool story. I was when I lived in Beijing, >> I didn't really take learning Mandarin seriously, but I had to I took a class and I had to actually do the test. And

>> so I was studying for a particular test I had in, you know, Chinese language and this was a Thursday night test was on Friday. A senior classmate of mine who

Friday. A senior classmate of mine who was from Bulgaria who speaks fluent Chinese, she saw me, she's like, "Kennedy, it feels so good to see you struggle at something." I thought that

was I was like, "Oh my god, you don't know my life." Like you Yeah, it was it was very interesting cuz of course like assuming Chinese was one of those things that I somehow learned how to speak and

was really good. I'd be like, "Oh, yeah, of course it's you." Um, and they probably just assume, yeah, you're I've heard people even say things like, "Oh, yeah, you know, you get things because

you're a man and men have it is in the world." Is there an aspect of that

world." Is there an aspect of that that's true? Absolutely. But come on,

that's true? Absolutely. But come on, you know, that's not true. That's not

the case. That's not the story of my life.

>> Or they suck it up to my talent. Right.

>> Exactly. It's like, oh, you're just talented. Things just happen easy for

talented. Things just happen easy for you. Uh oh, you have parents who cared

you. Uh oh, you have parents who cared about you. Of course, all of those

about you. Of course, all of those things are true. And you know, I'm so grateful for all of those. But it's it undermines just how much how tough it is

sometimes. And it feel felt for the

sometimes. And it feel felt for the longest. there's no there's no real

longest. there's no there's no real permission for you to you know to just be just be mediocre to just just chill in many ways I'm grateful for it I'm grateful for the

result he has produced I'm grateful for the person he has chiseled me to become but it was always very annoying for people to not notice and appreciate how

much work goes in even when it seems like it's just second nature now goes into being that person goes into cultivating and nurturing that so very similar to you I relate. I relate. Like

and similar to you to, you know, say that like being the youngest person in the class, having to, you know, just be mature. Everyone is acting mature. And

mature. Everyone is acting mature. And

in secondary school, I wasn't really the coolest kid in by by a stretch. I didn't

even go to a cool secondary school in the context of my city. But, you know, you just have to put up appearance so they won't say you're childish. Exactly.

>> Yeah. Yeah. But do you do you think that in that light do you think that we do people a disservice right when we speak so much about our gifts, our

backgrounds, our talents, the opportunities we had, maybe some of the privileges we have and not enough about the skill sets that we had to build and the experiences that we needed to

navigate in order to become who we are today.

I find that a lot of people kind of focus and zoom in on the other success >> because they assume that it's peculiar

to you. There's something that you have

to you. There's something that you have that nobody else has.

>> Meanwhile, you you weren't sleeping because you were learning something that you needed to learn in order to be able to put it into >> Absolutely. I think as a culture we it's

>> Absolutely. I think as a culture we it's it's a gross disservice to young people to creatives to people who are trying to build things when because most times a

manifestation of the conversation is it's excuses you know oh Adora you had great parents who cared about you they were well educated Salem you had you know great parents your dad had books and you were surrounded by books so of

course you turned out this way of course you know the things you know but while that's true people say that because they're trying to make excuses for why

I'm not that person. Look at all the things. I had a, you know, I'm doing a

things. I had a, you know, I'm doing a public lecture series and someone asked a question and I didn't really understand the question. So, I told her to meet me right after the lecture outside the lecture hall and she always

prefaces her question. Oh, as a young person, as a young person, should I be doing too much? As a young person, it's almost like, oh, I'm a young person, so not much is expected of me. So, you

know, what did what did Judge Bush call it? the the soft bigotry of low

it? the the soft bigotry of low expectations. So I expect so little from

expectations. So I expect so little from myself that anything beyond this I'm a young person. I'm just a young person.

young person. I'm just a young person.

Oh, my parents were not wealthy. I

didn't go to a good school. I grew up in Nigeria. Come on. I think I think as a

Nigeria. Come on. I think I think as a culture even when we spotlight people who are doing really well by just spotlighting, oh this is a natural

genius or a boy wonder a whis kid. We

should be spotlighting what went into this. What did you do? what what

this. What did you do? what what

sacrifices what personal consecrations did you hold yourself accountable to because those are the things that are replicable. Those are the things that

replicable. Those are the things that people can learn from. Those are the things that when people hear they can figure out, okay, what version of this would work for me and in what ways do I really need to level up to become like

this person? So I think it's a

this person? So I think it's a disservice when we grossly only focus on the outcomes, the results, the all the reasons why there was cosmic alignment

for you to end up the way you ended without being what did you have to do?

No one ends up successful without having to do work. Honestly, no one does.

>> Yeah. And I think that's why we're even having these conversations. It's a way for us to get you to document your process to share that this is what I have done. Apart from the ways in which

have done. Apart from the ways in which life was set up for me and things were prepared for me. This is what I have done. This is this is this was part A,

done. This is this is this was part A, this was part B. These are this is how much I've had to invest in increasing my skill level, you know, and stuff like that.

>> I actually have a question for you around that. Sorry to interrupt.

around that. Sorry to interrupt.

>> Right. So you speak now and you know you are interviewing you you speak on stages and things like that but were you always a good speaker?

>> No I wasn't but I always thought about myself as one. So

>> you have to work towards it >> for sure definitely you know I'm I'm introverted so like I don't even like to be around people like that >> which is crazy cuz I have the career I

have now as that person. So it's taken a lot of practice. Um, I watch all the people that I love, the people I want to speak like, the people I want to communicate like. I think of all the

communicate like. I think of all the sermons and podcast I've listened to that I still remember information from 5 years later and I listen to them over and over again. There are people who

read a 100 books. Me, I have books I've read 10 times cuz they're just I just feel like what I got out of this, I need to get it again as the new version of myself

>> that I am. So yeah, it's taking a lot of time, a lot of effort just throwing myself in there because I'm like, I desire this. I desire this

more than I desire to be as I am, you know, and that's just it for me. And

>> I wanted to I wanted to ask, you know, follow follow up on that like this aspect of desire because you said you've you've always thought of yourself as a good public speaker. Um and similarly

too there are things that oh I want to be this and there's just this picture in my head >> that is always there. Do you guys think that's important like for creatives to

and just young people generally to have >> strong desire for this is who I want to be. I may not be there yet. I may not be

be. I may not be there yet. I may not be the best speaker but in my head I'm seeing myself talking to 20,000 people and I'm seeing myself earning this much money. Has that played a role in Adora?

money. Has that played a role in Adora?

Maybe you can in your your story.

>> I definitely think that creatives should not creatives humans as in general, right? People should desire that. But I

right? People should desire that. But I

also think that we if we contextualize it within the culture of the continent on which we live.

>> There's this idea that desire is bad, >> right? There's this idea that you

>> right? There's this idea that you shouldn't dream too big because you shouldn't have too much ambition because when you dream too big or you have too much ambition, you're trying to do too much >> or you're trying to, you know, alter

what >> your creator is supposed to birth for you. I always say to people like if you

you. I always say to people like if you look at any of the faiths, I say like the people who were leaders of this faith, they were out there doing the work, being, you know, showing up,

tooting their own horns as well, right?

because they understood that that was part of the process of getting people to see them as authentic leaders in the context of whatever they were trying to do, but also it inspired people to be

able to create and to do more, right?

And to be like them. And I think so so bringing it back like it really has to do with our culture, you know, on the continent. We have a a little bit of a

continent. We have a a little bit of a false humility. I call it false humility

false humility. I call it false humility because you desire it. It's still there.

It's not disappearing. You're verbally

saying that, "Oh, I don't care about blowing up." Right? Cuz you're verbally

blowing up." Right? Cuz you're verbally saying it doesn't mean that that's how you actually genuinely feel inside. So,

we must give ourselves permission to desire. We must give our permission

desire. We must give our permission ourselves permission to want to build towards something that we see >> and not water it down because we want people to have a certain perspective of

who it is that we are.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And and I want to say for whoever doesn't have it modeled for them, like you don't have it in your family. My dad was a preacher, so I saw

family. My dad was a preacher, so I saw a good speaker, right? And I knew that I'm going to be this when I grow up in some shape or form. But if you don't have it modeled for you, there's such a thing as mentorship by observation.

There are people that you can watch.

There's books you can read. There's

events you can go to. Kennedy has a monthly lecture series. You know, you should go for that. But all of this is leading me to a question for you.

>> How do you take up space cuz you talked about this girl now who who said who only thought about herself within the context of I'm a young person >> and then that was that's creating a

glass ceiling in her brain in her life is limiting whatever she can have access to for herself. So in your life how have you continued to take up space in places where it's like oh you're a young person

so you're disenfranchised. what needs to be done needs to be done and in order for you to get it done, you need to take up space. How do you do that?

up space. How do you do that?

>> I've never even >> thought of how do I take up space? I've

cuz it's in some ways it's not an intentional, okay, when I wake up, I'm going to take up space, >> you know, yeah, I'm going to, you know, sit back with my shoulder back and going to walk in a certain way so people think

I'm a certain type of man. But it starts with you. We've talked about it a little

with you. We've talked about it a little bit when it's like, who do you want to show up as? I believe that humans we we live out archetypes. So we're like

actors in some sort of cosmic story. So

when you think about it 10, 50, 100, a thousand years ago, they were irresponsible people. They were useless

irresponsible people. They were useless fathers. They were armed robbers. They

fathers. They were armed robbers. They

were drunken like sailors. Like there's

always these archetypes. And in 100 years would have those people. And these

are very extreme archetypes. But even in the way we show up dayto-day, they are those archetypes. and we can decide what

those archetypes. and we can decide what sort of person do I want to show up in the world as. It's a very deep question that we takes years for us to figure out and answer. And I think I've been

and answer. And I think I've been thinking about it for at least the past 12 years for myself.

What sort of person do I want to show up as in the world? I don't think I'm there by any stretch, but I have an understanding of this is my ideal self.

This is ideal Kennedy. When I started building Kip, I I wrote it in my journal at the time. There were eight things I wrote that a successful founder must do

independent of me and where I was then and it became very clear to me immediately. These are all the ways at

immediately. These are all the ways at that time I probably had just two of those things you know in terms of habits, skills. So having setting up

habits, skills. So having setting up that ideal for myself allowed me on a daily basis judge, okay, how well am I approximating towards my ideal self? I

don't think I've ever gotten there, but at least I know the distance between where I am and that person.

>> And what that means is it imbused me with a deep sense of just like I'm conscious about myself. I'm aware of myself. And similarly, I'm also aware

myself. And similarly, I'm also aware that other people are also conscious of themselves and they are not their ideal.

So what that means is I never deify anyone. I never put anyone on a

anyone. I never put anyone on a platform. And when I go somewhere and

platform. And when I go somewhere and there's someone who is stronger, wealthier, you know, across different dimensions, you can pick one of them, better than me,

>> I know that that doesn't make them an absolute like an absolute universally better person than I am. Um, and it doesn't make me better than they are.

Like >> it's not a comparison.

>> Yeah. So, I stopped thinking of my interactions with people as, oh, I am this. I am small and you're big. M

this. I am small and you're big. M

>> humans, especially when we're young, we love to do that. Oh, I am disenfranchised as a young person. I am

a minority. I am the young person in the room. I don't even index who is the

room. I don't even index who is the oldest person in the room where I going to. Am I the only black person in the

to. Am I the only black person in the room? I am Kennedy. I am loved by God.

room? I am Kennedy. I am loved by God.

I'm loved by my parents and my friends.

I show up here. There are things I'm competent at. There are things I'm not

competent at. There are things I'm not very good at, but I'm here for a very specific reason. People don't invite you

specific reason. People don't invite you to places or give you things because they like you.

>> They invite you because they are things that you have. Even if you don't know it, you may not even recognize that you have it, that you're that person, but other people recognize it. People are

much faster recognizing how unique you are for good or for, you know, for bad um you know, than you are. And so just being conscious of that fact allows me

just show up as I am Kennedy like in all the ways in which I'm strong in all the ways in which I'm broken >> I'm just Kennedy like that's who I am and when I'm here I'm here is there any

sort of value I can render here >> if not that's okay too then maybe there's value you can render so I don't I don't think there are any inhibitions to who I could be I fundamentally don't

believe that and I think that's one of the great things that my parents did a really good job at this point that there's anything that I don't deserve I'm not good enough for or that someone else deserves more than I do or that I

deserve more than someone else does. So

I don't think in those terms and it's been very freeing for me. Of course I've not always thought this way. This has

not always been the perception with which I've approached the world but it's been very freeing. I think this is one of the things I've gotten more mature at over the past 5 years or so.

>> And and I definitely think that that that level of confidence, right, it requires some level of being okay with not knowing everything,

>> being okay with potential shame, being okay with fear, you know, being able to navigate those things. We were speaking earlier and we're talking about how um when you're when you're on a panel with different people, right? And we're

sitting there and you're asked a question, you don't have to know the answer to that question. So, you don't have to even find a way to wing your way through that that response. It's

actually okay to sit down and say, you know what, I'll pass it on to the next panelist. I think they're in a better

panelist. I think they're in a better position to be able to respond to that.

And I think that, you know, a lot of people um put themselves in positions where they feel like they always have to be the smartest in the room. They always

have to be the, you know, the most intellectual, the one who knows everything. That's a disadvantage. Um a

everything. That's a disadvantage. Um a

position of disadvantage, right? That

doesn't allow you to now express your full confidence. And I've always loved

full confidence. And I've always loved the fact that you're super confident.

So, I want you to speak to people who are going through moments of fear and doubt in whatever it is they're trying to create, whatever it is they're trying to build. How do they navigate their

to build. How do they navigate their lives to a point where they can build this type of confidence? And you can do it in like three, four steps if you want to do it step by step.

>> Yeah. Fear, doubt, oh my god, it's so real. Um, so I'm going to even start by

real. Um, so I'm going to even start by acknowledging that if you're trying to do anything and you lack the courage to do it, nothing is intrinsically wrong with you. That's I think something might

with you. That's I think something might be wrong with you if you're trying to do something and you're not afraid. So

that's Yeah. So that's exactly the right way to be. Um, no matter how small or big it may seem, it's okay for you to feel afraid. And you're also not alone.

feel afraid. And you're also not alone.

Like, everyone feels fear. The most

successful people are probably even the most afraid people um when you get close enough to them. So, it's not unique to you. Nothing is wrong with you. I think

you. Nothing is wrong with you. I think

that's the first thing. And if we get that out of the way, next thing I'm going to say is on fear of failure, of shame, of embarrassment. When you're

trying to do anything meaningful, there's probably a thousand things that can derail that thing. You know, if you're trying to build a business, for example, oh, I'm afraid that I'm not

good enough. I'm afraid that, you know,

good enough. I'm afraid that, you know, there's a thousand things to be afraid of. Those things you're afraid of are

of. Those things you're afraid of are one, two, three out of a thousand possible things that could kill that business you're trying to build. When we

fear, when I'm in situations where I'm really afraid to do something, I I create a deity out of my fear and I give it so much power. And when I actually go

to do the thing, I realize a lot of our fear is actually imagined.

>> Very little of it translates into reality. So 90% of the time the things

reality. So 90% of the time the things we fear would not happen. And even in instances where they happen, you realize, oh, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. The pinch is not as

terrible as I thought it would be. The

reason why a lot of people, a lot of young people are locked up in the prison of their own fear is they don't want to be embarrassed. They don't want to look

be embarrassed. They don't want to look like a fool in front of other people.

Sadly, there's no short circuiting that.

You have to, at least in principle, be willing to look foolish before other people. But while you're doing that,

people. But while you're doing that, maybe the shock absorber for that is people really don't care. People don't

care when you post something and you get two likes.

>> They probably don't even remember like I don't remember how many likes you got on the post you made last week. I don't

remember how many likes you got on the post you made yesterday.

>> But you in your head you probably have that number. You're thinking, oh my god,

that number. You're thinking, oh my god, I posted something yesterday.

>> Two people just liked it. Oh my god, I'm going to delete this. Then you know, oh temporary post, I'm going to delete this later. All the things we all the things

later. All the things we all the things we building to be like temporary post.

>> Yeah, I'm going to delete this later.

You know what the things you do? You're

like, "Okay, I don't really Yeah, I'm not as invested."

>> I mean, it's probably what Sorry, I It's probably why even the platform created, you know, Instagram created this thing now where you can put a real out >> or like a trial.

>> The trial ree that was a feature. I used to like to do a trial. I'm creating

something. I just want to put it out.

>> I see. Well, you see that?

>> There's a trial re. So you put it and then if you can see if people view it >> and then you can decide to >> That's funny. That's very funny. I'm

sure you're catering to people who are >> I I want you to pick up.

>> Yeah. But that's that's such a real thing. You know, you you start a

thing. You know, you you start a business but maybe you act like you're not really invested because you're trying to and I've always in times when I'm afraid and I've definitely

experienced extreme fear. Oh my god, what am I going to just make a public radical of myself? There are times that when I was 20 years old, I'm like, "Oh my god, is this the end of Kennedy AKZ

as we know him?" At 20, what business do I have to who the hell is Kennedy? Who

was he at that point? I was a nobody. I

was a non entity. I still am in many ways compared to where, you know, I would go in my future. But of course, it's that fear. We are intrinsically afraid of

looking foolish, of being embarrassed, and that's a typical human emotion to experience. It's even more pronounced

experience. It's even more pronounced like you said in our culture where people don't want to see you getting started out on social media. Everyone

you're seeing is having a good time.

They're getting a,000 comments. They're

on vacation. They just got married. They

just started a business that raised so much money. Everything is perfect for

much money. Everything is perfect for everyone but me. But again, when you get close to these people, I think maybe this is one of the privilege vantage

points that having some sort of success gets you because you get close to other people who are successful and you just see how ordinary they are, >> how ordinary they are. They are not more

special than you are. Um, you're not more special than they are. They

probably just have an increased level of willingness to look foolish before other people. So, I'll say that's definitely

people. So, I'll say that's definitely something to develop. And for young people, maybe a good way to practically go about this is don't level up too early. Don't don't build a reputation

early. Don't don't build a reputation too early. And what I mean by that is

too early. And what I mean by that is don't play status games so early because once you start playing status games, it's going to be very difficult for you to stop. You start to think of yourself

to stop. You start to think of yourself as an imagined celebrity who cannot flop. Everything you do has to be

flop. Everything you do has to be successful. But when you're 25, that's

successful. But when you're 25, that's not how life is going to play out for you. You're going to make so many

you. You're going to make so many decisions that go wrongly. But without

making those decisions, you're never going to be successful, at least as successful as you want to be. So for

people dealing with this, honestly, the I try to be very tough when I say this.

We we and I'm speaking to myself too. We

have to get over ourselves as a culture.

As a culture too, we have to be much more much more tolerant to people who are starting out. I mean, when you look at different aspect of our social culture as a young man, if there's

aspect of you that's not finished, no young woman is going to look your way. I

don't mean no literally, but the stereotype is young women aren't going to even want to touch you because you're not attractive. I mean, you're not the

not attractive. I mean, you're not the most attractive when you're 20. You're

not the wealthiest when you're 20.

You're not the smartest. There's I mean, you just Yeah. things aren't going really well for you when you're 20 to be honest. But we need to learn to

honest. But we need to learn to celebrate that.

>> One of the things you know since I became a technology entrepreneur in my early 20s was you know getting plugged into the culture in say Silicon Valley for example where one of the things

they've deeply understood and has been the single biggest vehicle for creating so much wealth in the past 10 20 years is that no one is too young or too

foolish. like ideas that seem weird,

foolish. like ideas that seem weird, let's double down on that. Like this

this makes sense. And when you think about all the people who went on to start great things, one of the founders I really love is Brian Ches, the founder and CEO of Airbnb. And I mean, the idea of having a stranger sleep in your

basement next to your children is a crazy idea. Objectively had no

crazy idea. Objectively had no reputation when he started it. But I

think in a culture like that, they understand that nothing is too stupid.

Nothing is off the table. Go ahead and start. You would look foolish. You

start. You would look foolish. You

would. But if you work on it long enough, there's people who would support you. There's people who are going to

you. There's people who are going to take early bets on you. So, we need to do that more. We need to create that culture where weird people thrive, where people don't feel like they alone if

they are afraid or they are weird.

>> Create create a culture where weird people thrive. I love that.

people thrive. I love that.

>> Yes. Because it's weird people who create the future. Um, and that's why honestly in this part of the world, there's not so much of the future being created here because you're expected to

figure it out. Be married at 25, be a doctor, have a child, have two cars, get a house.

>> The thing is, you're not on the edge of your ambition. You're not on the edge of

your ambition. You're not on the edge of your potential. So, you're not creating

your potential. So, you're not creating anything.

>> So, we have a lot of predictable stories, a lot of predictable success stories because you're just following the design >> that's just disrupting.

>> And that's the bath for what success is.

Um, and it shouldn't be so. It shouldn't

be so.

>> That's that's incredible. Um, and it's it's perspective shifting also the fact that young people should not have to think about themselves as one thing or you know plant your identity in any one

thing when you're young. So how do you define resilience considering the fact that you will start things they might fail or you will start some things

they'll be crazy at the beginning and if you stick to it long enough everybody comes around everybody starts to see what only you are seeing so how do you define resilience like staying the

course I shouldn't define it for you how do you define it >> is a very delicate balance between knowing how long should I keep this

going And am I at the end of my weights?

Like should I um there's an aspect of it that is internal to you. I believe that whatever anyone is working on, it should come from a deep place of you caring

about it. I've built things. I've worked

about it. I've built things. I've worked

on things that I realized I didn't really care about it. It had its benefits. It was nice. It was fun. It

benefits. It was nice. It was fun. It

was intellectually stimulating. But at

its core, the conversation on resilience, i.e. staying power, being

resilience, i.e. staying power, being elastic, being adaptable, it changes entirely when you're describing something that you're working on something that you deeply care about.

When you deeply care about something, you're not wathed to the solution that you're creating. You're wathed to the

you're creating. You're wathed to the problem. So that way, your solution can

problem. So that way, your solution can adapt multiple times. You can morph many, many, many, many, many times to arrive at that. And if you think about,

I know not everyone has a big grand overarching sentiment about what they want to do with their life. Maybe I want to be a billboard of possibility for example. Um I want to show people that

example. Um I want to show people that they can live a life and thrive with maybe not so many resources. Whatever

that version of, you know, what you think you want to do is and try to get as deep, you know, go from I want to build this business to why do I want to build it? Get as deep as you can. Okay.

build it? Get as deep as you can. Okay.

I want to build a business because I want to make money. Good. Why do I want to make money? Because I want to take care of my family and my community. Why

do I want to do this? Maybe there's some So, get as deep. There's some altruistic sense of the world. There's a version of the world that I want to see exist that doesn't exist. Okay, so my answer to

doesn't exist. Okay, so my answer to that today is I'm a business owner in order for me to get there. I work hard at it for years. Okay, maybe this is not

really working. What version of me?

really working. What version of me?

Okay, maybe I need to become a mom or a dad and I need to raise children who can help me. whatever it is, I need to

help me. whatever it is, I need to become a football coach. But there's

different versions of you that are morphing over time that allow you to take on that problem. Um, but even to get a little less philosophical in the context of maybe I'm working on a

business, I'm working on a project, >> you always have to start with the problem. What problem am I trying to

problem. What problem am I trying to solve? What about the world today is

solve? What about the world today is wrong? What about the way this thing is

wrong? What about the way this thing is being tackled today? um you know is is inadequate. And so when you start with

inadequate. And so when you start with that problem in mind, of course you come up with a hypothesis. Your hypothesis is your business. Okay, I'm going to start

your business. Okay, I'm going to start to provide XYZ service or product. Um

when you do that long enough, you have a sense especially if you connected to the problem, you have a sense for is this really moving the needle or not? And you

know, okay, it's not. You talk to people who you're working for, who you're building for, how do I adjust, how do I shift? And so that's something people

shift? And so that's something people are not as adaptable. And it boils back to what we were speaking about earlier, what you just talked about where we tie our identity to this thing. Oh, they

know me for being this person who does this thing. So if I shift now, I'll look

this thing. So if I shift now, I'll look confused. Well, no. Like everything that

confused. Well, no. Like everything that is worthwhile that has been built has taken a great amount of morphing. From

simple examples like Samsung starting out as a grocery store or something like that to companies that have been built that start out with a very radically different product, they morph over time

to what we know and celebrate today. Um,

and if a company can do that, how much more we human um, you know, I think >> the person is even more dynamic.

>> Exactly. Way more dynamic. I think it was Kanye West who said um you know artists shouldn't have managers, they should have CEOs. I think okay if you think of yourself as a public corporation that's a weird thing to

think of yourself as but what are all the optimizations you would make on a daily basis on a quarterly basis on a yearly basis on a decade basis to evolve

your identity to evolve yourself.

Companies that don't evolve die. So how

about you as a human being? You need to like you said you're more dynamic.

There's many impute variables. There's

relationships. There's there's who you are. You're growing. So, you have to

are. You're growing. So, you have to morph. And we are not morphing enough.

morph. And we are not morphing enough.

We're not moring enough.

>> You answered the resilience question really well. And I want to bring it back

really well. And I want to bring it back to you, right? Let's con contextualize it to your personal journey. What is

that overarching sentiment for you that drives you every single day, right? And

I want to understand what is that also anchored on for you to continue to be resilient in the way that you are. I'm

still figuring it out. But my most current articulation of my life's purpose is that I want to build institutions,

services, products that help people live a socially responsible and economically prosperous life.

>> For some reason, I don't know. I've been

a little obsessed about the concept of human potential. Um, in part I think

human potential. Um, in part I think that comes from being born in Nigeria, growing up here in Nigeria, realizing that most people don't leave even up to

20% of their potential. Most people give up on the whole potential thing by the time they are 30 and they just every day is the same. They start to live

monotonous routine lives. Um, I see that with people from the older generation where for some people it's just like, oh, I'm going to give up. I'm now I'm a mom. I'm a dad. you know, it makes my

mom. I'm a dad. you know, it makes my job description easy. I just have to be a mom to this person. But who are you?

And I believe that in the context of say dad and child, mom and child, a great way to model um responsible living, for example, is for your children to actually see you have an identity.

>> Um you know, and do things that that fill you with meaning. That's a great way to model great living for them. I

think the world would be much much much more different if more people were even using up a little bit more. A 10%

optimization in you know just potential utilization would produce a much better world. A world where people are more

world. A world where people are more alive.

>> Um a world where people that is much more economically prosperous. And I

don't believe that people can truly live socially responsible lives without economic prosperity. I think that they

economic prosperity. I think that they go hand in hand. Um, and there's a >> why is that?

>> I think that there's aspect of your potential that you can't unlock without having the resources to do that. And I

don't even mean you need to be wealthy or it's, you know, most of most of the continent, for example, um, you know, lives on the poverty line.

>> You can't be thinking potential. You

can't be thinking who do I become when you're worried and obsessed about where your next meal will come from. Um so for us to just massively unlock human potential at scale, we need to figure

out how people eat, >> how where they sleep, what they wear, like those very basic things like that needs to be sorted and people need to stop worrying about that. And I think when people stop worrying about that,

the concept of potential becomes something that they get much more aware of earlier in their lives. Um the way we train children is much more different as opposed to get a job that we think you'll earn the most while doing this.

Who are you? What are your interests?

What can you do? What's what early patterns are we noticing? And as

parents, how can we help you develop that? We don't know where this will go.

that? We don't know where this will go.

We don't know how profitable it will be.

>> But we're sure that okay, you don't have to worry about what to eat. Um so I think those two things go hand in hand.

In many ways, that's anchored solely on my faith as a believer. I think it's God's grand design that we mean when God created the world, he called forth

everything we have out of nothing as it were. He called called forth actuality

were. He called called forth actuality out of potential. So the world was in a latent state of potential and lights, you know, >> the firmament, everything was created

from that. And I think that's really

from that. And I think that's really what we are called to do as humans in this world to >> to create things out of nothing.

um that potential is latent inside of us and um I think that's my anchor and you know I hope I can even make a small dent in my lifetime towards this.

>> That's amazing man. Like

>> a lot I need to digest.

>> I know.

>> Before we continue >> I know I'm like your Bulgarian classmates.

>> What am I doing my life?

>> No, but I mean you hit it spot on. like

the human potential is something that people need to really key into. Um to

understand that there's so many societal constructs that don't allow us to be calm because we think that we're too much once we start trying to be calm, you know, and there's certain things

that are put in place to to almost block you from trying to become, >> you know, which is why mindset is also important, which is why you have to work on your mind. Like you can't power through life, right?

>> Working with a mindset that has not been built you know over time like you're you're a child when you're a child you're born with a particular you know way of thinking right the thinking that you've been surrounded by the

environment whether it's your family your your school you know and things like that and at some point in your life you have to now start to decide that this brain that I have right how can I

build certain things um that allow me to now be able to leap into this future that I desire right or into this future or into this vision that I see you know and What happens um a lot is that people

get stuck in the same mindsets that kept them in the that they were able that helped them within the environments that they existed in. Once they they're put out of that environment, they can't they can't handle.

>> Yeah.

>> The thing again is no matter how hard you try, no matter how tough you are, no matter how much direction you have, no matter how well you do everything right, all the things we've talked about,

sometimes life will still just kick you in the behind >> and you will run into a roadblock. you

will run into a wall. Um, you do everything right and still fail. What's

your go-to move when you experience that? If you have experienced that, I

that? If you have experienced that, I have. I have. Um, and in many ways,

have. I have. Um, and in many ways, like, you know, personal, professional, um, but mostly personal.

Um, I think having someone and if you're lucky, people who you can just go back and cry to, you can go back and pray

with, that is so important. Friends,

family, you know, a partner, whatever that looks like. But we are not built to do life alone.

>> Mhm.

>> As humans, we're built to do life in a community. And no matter how bad things

community. And no matter how bad things have been for me, there's a few people who when I spend time with in those times, when I talk to, when I share the

problem with, when I pray with, >> it just feels like, okay, yeah, it's, you know, it's part for the course. It's

it's okay. Like life in that moment still feels very meaningful just because I'm around them. Um, and things don't even have to go bad in the way you

describe for it to feel, you know, there are times I just feel a deep sense of despair. And I look with I know what

despair. And I look with I know what like you, oh my god, when last was I did I feel like I was nurtured by being with other people, nurtured in the place of prayer cuz that matters very much to me

and usually once I turn to those, you know, it's a good day again. So we're

not meant to do life alone. And I think having those people who who you do life with like >> Yeah. that band of people, your gang of

>> Yeah. that band of people, your gang of >> of misfits sometimes community, your tribe.

>> Yes. Yes. That that matters that matters very greatly. So

very greatly. So >> I think I think that's really important.

Um earlier when you were speaking you were talking about how sometimes you have to know when something is at at the end like you know when you're saying to yourself yeah like you know this is not

working or it might be working and you personally have decided that >> I'm just not continuing on the same path right do you have any examples that you want to share that's that's one question um and the other thing I would like for

you to share with anyone who's watching this is how do they know when they've come to the end of something? Hm.

>> What does that feel like or look like?

>> At my previous company, we shut it down and moved on. Not

because we we ran out of options. Um, if

anything, quite the opposite, right? We

had significant runway. We still had significant amount of capital that we ultimately, you know, returned back and everything. But

everything. But >> it was very clear that we were we had gotten to the end of it. And um, it was two things. It was so it was external

two things. It was so it was external maybe a little bit internal but I think the internal was really affected by the external it was very clear like from crunching the numbers and the

projections and seeing how things had happened in the the like the macroeconomic situation it's like oh I no longer yes I no longer believe in the financial fundamentals upon which this

business was started I no longer believe in these were the presuppositions that were true that made this make sense when we went into it. Those things are now

all false. Like every single one of them

all false. Like every single one of them was false. We had tried to how can we

was false. We had tried to how can we get a few of them to be true? But and

that was not the case. And at some like hm okay let let me take a step back.

Let's let's let's if we were doing this from scratch, would we go in this direction? And it was just very clear.

direction? And it was just very clear.

And you know that moment when it just hit you like oh my god it's clear what decision needs to be made. That's when

the fear kicked in for me. is like wow now I have to communicate this to people now I have to articulate this thought I have to you know and it's going to take months of work to to wind this down as

it ultimately did that was a very glaring example for me like okay you know it's the end of the road I'll tell you this when we made the decision and when it was made public founder of a very popular company you know in this

country called me he's like oh my god like wow like very brave of like why didn't you guys just coast literally like why didn't you just coast and and he was asking that from this like wow

like how did you go ahead to so I'm like and I know many of my friends who are founders who have been coasting for years >> you know because they are too afraid to be to admit that this is the end of this

let me go and for very many reasons and it's baffling to me I've never understood how I can't be in anything that I don't like it I physically cannot you know some people are in relationships where that they hate I'm

like you know what I think people are strong I think you're very strong how can you how can I be in a situation I hate for But but that's why there's nuance to staying power, >> right? Because we talk about stay

>> right? Because we talk about stay staying power a lot, right, on our entrepreneurial journeys. And the thing

entrepreneurial journeys. And the thing is sometimes staying power is ego on display.

>> Yes.

>> Right. So it's not always staying power in terms of resilience. It's also I'm here because I'm afraid to let anyone know that, you know, this is not working out. So I'm just going to coast as you

out. So I'm just going to coast as you said. I'm going to stay in this space.

said. I'm going to stay in this space.

Right. And it's really just ego at the >> point. Absolutely. It's not staying

>> point. Absolutely. It's not staying power if you're not running new experiments to get it better. It's not

staying power if your spirit is not in it. People work on things that are going

it. People work on things that are going really badly for 9 years, 10 years, and then they start to go good. Um because

even in those years when it was going bad, they still had that that picture of the of the future that where this would work was still very crisp in it. They

still believed in where this was going and they were working at it every day.

It's not about >> you can usually tell right when you have conversations with people who >> who you know >> absolutely when when they animated when they are live within and what they

working on you know feeds them life so I think of course the other side of the converion also needs to be had where people are like ah >> man I woke up today I'm feeling tired it be like I say this business don't tire

of course that is like no one does anything just based on how you're feeling and you know staying power is discipline are you doing what you're supposed to be doing are everything.

We assume something by default. No, you

have to you have to find the flame of your nice to you know if you have a an idea, a business you're working on, talk about it, be positive about it, share it with

people, be open for feedback. Doing all

those things actually they find the flame of your motivation. You have to find ways to hack your motivation. And

it's not just something that is a default. And if you wake up not there

default. And if you wake up not there are many days you wake up not feeling excited.

>> So excitement is not even a reliable um you know frame of mind for making decisions that are longterm. So you wake up many days it's just a mundane I have to work on this.

>> Sure. But you can't say oh because I'm tired there's something else that I saw online is exciting. Maybe I should go pursue this.

>> Yeah. You're setting up what will hit you. You don't know where it's coming from. Speaking of pursuing this, for anyone who's watching this, like what are three, four things that you think that they should look out for

to determine if an idea is worth pursuing? So, we get ideas every day,

pursuing? So, we get ideas every day, right? You're sitting somewhere and

right? You're sitting somewhere and you're like, "Oh, that's a good idea."

And you're driving in traffic. You're

like, "Oh, that's I can solve that problem." And all these things things

problem." And all these things things come to your head. You get home and you're like, I've pulled together five different ideas that I've figured out in a in a day. But how do you sit down and say, you know what, this one is worth pursuing in that moment? And it could be

from your personal experience.

>> Yeah, of course. So I'll just go off.

I'll say maybe three things, but it might be more, it might be less. So a

few things have to be present. One is

righteous anger.

>> Um, and what I mean by righteous anger is does this make me angry? If I come into this room, the way the walls are painted, >> I don't is did an interior designer do

this? I could do better. I'm angry about

this? I could do better. I'm angry about it. I want it

it. I want it >> it's righteous anger. I want this situation to change. And we mostly associate righteous anger with causes like, you know, climate change and those

are great. But it doesn't even have to

are great. But it doesn't even have to be that. It could be, you know, this

be that. It could be, you know, this Stanley Cup. Why why are Stanley cups

Stanley Cup. Why why are Stanley cups made the way they are? They're too big.

They're too cumbersome. I think we could make a nicer version. Whatever you're

just mean, when you see anyone carrying a Stanley Cup, you're angry like I could do better than this. So, what are the things that imbue you with a sense of righteous anger that you feel you can do something about? You don't like the way

something about? You don't like the way the world is. you don't like the way this this this thing works. You don't

like the way um you know men treat women in society or vice versa. You don't like there are many things like what are things you feel righteous anger about. I

think if we look deeply enough >> you know we would find at least one thing that no matter how mundane and insignificant it seems but those are places to look. So that emotion of

righteous anger. Second thing is what

righteous anger. Second thing is what things imbue you with a sense of flow and joy. With this you would have to at

and joy. With this you would have to at least start working on it for you to figure that out or you might have to tinker with different things. But if you think back at oh when I was working on this thing when I was doing this I was

in a state of flow. This the concept of time and space seemed to disappear. I

forgot I hadn't eaten for six hours because I was doing I was creating I was I was writing. I was playing. I was at the gym. Whatever that is. But again, it

the gym. Whatever that is. But again, it doesn't need to be, okay, I was in a state of flow at the gym, so I should be a bodybuilder. That's not a But just

a bodybuilder. That's not a But just look to those things. What are the things that imbue you with a sense of flow and joy? Um, and of course, the third thing is what are you actually

good at? Um, okay. Yes, I might be angry

good at? Um, okay. Yes, I might be angry about this, but can I actually do anything about it? Does any of the skills I have or would be interested in acquiring, can it make a dent on this

specific thing? And I think usually when

specific thing? And I think usually when those three things come together um you're in a good position to get started. Everything else you would you

started. Everything else you would you know of course you have to figure out okay how do I hire people? How do I create a product? How do I raise capital? But the best people in the

capital? But the best people in the world that create things and entrepreneurs are a great example.

They're not the most competent. Elon

Musk was not the most competent person when it came to building rockets when he decided to do that. But he was just really angry for whatever reason, you know, that we didn't have reusable rockets that the cost of rockets were.

So it's like you need someone who has enough anger about this that's like okay, I'm going to go find the money for us to build this. I'm going to stake my reputation. I'm going to learn about

reputation. I'm going to learn about this. I'm going to go to Russia, which

this. I'm going to go to Russia, which he did, you know, then it's it heralds all the actions you need to take to learn and set it in motion. But just

doing those actions does not it doesn't provide the adequate emotional depth that's required for skin in the game.

But if you have that skin in the game, if you have the emotional depth, you'll figure everything else out. Everything

is figure outable um from that point on.

So I think those things >> Yeah. I love that. You know, and when I

>> Yeah. I love that. You know, and when I think of righteous anger, you know what?

We're building creatorum from a place of righteous anger.

like being able to sit down and say to yourself that you know I'm tired of creator creators being exploited right and I love that you talk about hidden potential because that's the same thing

we're saying to ourselves there's a lot of hidden potential and the best way to keep a man down right is to make sure that he never gathers knowledge to get himself out of that place

>> you know and so with creatorum we're trying to equip people to now have the mindsets the skill sets the encouragement the inspiration that you need to move yourself from from

potential to actualization, you know, and how can you do that and it's a hidden right is a what?

It's a righteous hidden righteousness.

You know, I mean, >> that's a good example, you know.

>> You know what? Every single time someone asks me moving forward, right, why are you doing this? I'm just going to say is it righteous?

>> That's it. There we are.

>> It's such a well put phrase because >> when I tell people to ask themselves what are you passionate about? I also

say you need to ask yourself also what are you mad about? What makes you mad?

>> What's something that you you want to see different in the world is such a pointer >> to what you should spend your energy on.

It's amazing.

>> Yeah.

>> Thank you for that.

>> Yes sir. Of course. So now speaking of what you were spending our time on, I want to ask you, what are you most committed to right now that isn't visible yet?

>> What I've been thinking about the past 8 months or so is um what are all the ways we can use artificial intelligence to you know further what I said to provide

people with um you know access to economic opportunities. This has been

economic opportunities. This has been thugging in my heart for a very long time. Um, you know, one thing people do

time. Um, you know, one thing people do not even know is before I built Kip, I worked on for about 8 months a recruiting agency that helped software engineers in Nigeria get hired in

Silicon Valley. Briefly, I decided I

Silicon Valley. Briefly, I decided I wanted to build something that was much more that could have much more scale.

But I realize it's when I look back, it's been really there. And so now we have, you know, artificial intelligence.

we have really sophisticated models that you know make it easy to build things that might not have been able to be built four 5 years ago. Um and so that's what I'm spending a lot of time thinking

and you know working on how do we take advantage of artificial intelligence to really understand deep professional capability. What are

all the things that you ador can do?

What are all the things that you Salem can do that might not be on your CV?

that might not be on your LinkedIn profile because those are at best very shallow approximations of who you are that can get really deep in understanding who you are and what you

can do and on the basis of that surface the opportunities that are best suited for you and not someone else who is a everything that you are who went to the school you went to who is who says

they're a creator but for you versus them that's what I'm spending most of my time working of course I spend a lot of time with young people in Nigeria in Nigeria Um, I'm currently doing a

year-long public lecture series um that's themed what should young people do differently. Every month we pick a

do differently. Every month we pick a very specific topic that's of relevance to young people. I try to read up as much as I can um on it, put together a 1 hour lecture on it and we do about a 1

hour 30 minutes to 2 hour Q&A on the topic where we just go as deep as we can. Um I've done four of those so far.

can. Um I've done four of those so far.

Um and yeah, I'm looking forward to to the rest through the end of the year. Um

yeah, so those are I mean that is definitely enough to >> you know to take my time.

>> Yeah. Can we talk about the public lecture?

>> Entrepreneur, motivational speaker, >> minder.

I love it. I love it.

>> Can we talk about your public lecture series? How did you start? Why did you

series? How did you start? Why did you decide to do more of that? I know you already have the round table.

>> Yes. every year.

>> Yes.

>> But why the monthly lecture series?

>> Yeah. So, we we do the round table every year. This huge flagship event has

year. This huge flagship event has gotten bigger, you know, over the past 2 years since we started. Um, but it's it's also a one-off. I don't believe

that oneoff convenings can create true transformation that lasts long term. I

think the equivalent of the round table is like a burning bush where your potential gets ignited but you need to actually go and do the work. Um and the monthly lecture series the the the

thought for that dropped in my spirit in October last year. Um and I immediately knew I was going to do it because I get so many questions from tens hundreds of

young people. If I could write every

young people. If I could write every single question I've gotten from them I can create patterns around it. It's

always about almost the same things.

Money career relationship identity.

How do I figure out my purpose?

>> Um, I'm afraid. Oh, I'm struggling with habits. They are the exact same thing

habits. They are the exact same thing every young person is struggling. We can

put buckets around. So, I thought why not have one month. Every month we go deep into each of this as deep as we possibly can in one hour and as deep as I can manage for one hour and that is

all we talk about. And you know, we create like I put up all the videos on YouTube. um after these lectures just a

YouTube. um after these lectures just a reference point for anyone who is and it's not just something we you know to to watch once or consume once but anytime you run into a fear roadblock you can go back I mean we'll have a

lecture on fear sometime later in the year you can go back to that lecture and you watch it's almost like a definitive um source of truth for even getting you started on that particular topic so we

started with identity in January because I believe that's the core who are you um that's the that's the fundamental question Everything we are doing in life boils down to who are you? Who do you

want to be? So identity in February we discuss career. Very important. Um in

discuss career. Very important. Um in

March we discuss purpose. So how do you find your purpose? Is should your career reflect purpose? Is purpose and career

reflect purpose? Is purpose and career the same thing? Yeah. So the hope is to create a body of you know work that is helpful to people um you know that they

can consume over the years. Um and I hope it does that.

>> Yeah.

>> I think that's brilliant and it's so it's so needed as well. What is your creative process like Kennedy? So, so is it would you consider it like structured chaotic?

>> Not at all. I I one of the things I thought I would do when I started this was have a structured process. I'm going

like in January I prepared for a lecture for like four weeks. In February it's like 3 weeks in March it was like like the week off then I just go all in. You

know like this deadline induce pressure to like I need to get ready. So my

creative process is in some ways is motivation based. Um if I open my my

motivation based. Um if I open my my voice note I have there are times where I'm about to fall asleep an idea just drops and I just with my very groggy voice I record it. I'm like okay I'll develop this idea tomorrow. I'll find a

way to put it into the lecture.

Sometimes it's my notes app when things drop in my head I just write it out. I

also like to read and watch other you know thinkers people who have said relevant things so I can engage with their material. what do I think in

their material. what do I think in response and then come up with contribute something new. So it's not a very defined structured process. Yeah.

But hopefully maybe before the end of the year I'll figure okay this is my system >> but right now you know it's working so far so I'm kind of going with the flow.

>> Yeah. I mean it's good to know what works for you. You don't have to have the same creative process that that most people have. Some on some projects you

people have. Some on some projects you can decide that you know what I'm structured on this project and and the next you look like you're structured.

You seem like you're structured.

>> I think it's a mix of both.

>> I think it's a mix of both actually.

>> Very structured.

>> Yeah. So, so the thing is I'm also very spontaneous, right? So, when I have an

spontaneous, right? So, when I have an idea, I have a thought about something, I can't rest until it's it comes to life, right? So, there's a part of me

life, right? So, there's a part of me that is >> um I I'm very self motivated.

>> So, I don't necessarily need external motivation to get me going on the idea, right? I have intrinsic motivation. And

right? I have intrinsic motivation. And

so, I will wake up and say, I want to do this thing. I'm going to wake up and do

this thing. I'm going to wake up and do it. Um, however, I've also learned over

it. Um, however, I've also learned over the years from experience, right, the importance of putting structures in place that make it easier to replicate because I also believe that a lot of

times when you're creating things, it's important to make a science of what you're creating so that it can work sustainably over a period of time, right? With or without your involvement

right? With or without your involvement in every aspect of it. And you know as a creator in your early days without the exper without the long-term experience

in your early days you really enjoy being a part of everything. You want to it's almost like a badge of honor to say that I'm busy. I'm doing I'm everywhere you know I'm part of that. And I think

as you grow you know on my journey I've got to a point where I don't want to micromanage every single >> aspect of my creativity. And because I don't want to micromanage it's really important that I put those structures in

place. So I will consider my creative

place. So I will consider my creative process a bit of both.

>> There's the spontaneity. Um but in order for me to remain spontaneous over the years and over time I must put structures in place that allow me >> to continue to birth.

>> I see.

>> Cuz tomorrow I have another idea.

>> And if the if the structure is not in place, it's all just going to be ideas.

It's going to be voice notes. It's going

to be a series of of voice notes that you know you create that never leave the >> structured struct.

>> No, >> I think I think every creative person has a system. My system to me seems like it's all over the place, but when someone sees it, they they think it's very

>> loud enough.

>> Yeah. To some to someone else, they feel like it's really organized. Um, I have several folders in my notes app. I live

in my notes app. Um, every time something comes to my mind, I'm in my notes app. I feel like if in the middle

notes app. I feel like if in the middle of this recording, if I get something, I'll open my iPad and just write it down. That's how I am. So, for me is I'm

down. That's how I am. So, for me is I'm always dumping stuff because I find that I have seasons of creative drought, right? I don't believe in creative

right? I don't believe in creative block, but I know that there's times when you're not as motivated as other times. But one thing I will always have,

times. But one thing I will always have, whether I'm motivated or not, is a bank to pull from. So no matter how dry I am, no matter how empty I am, I always have

like hundreds of stuff I've just written down and dumped on the days when I had an abundance of ideas and nothing to do with them.

>> And that's a form of structure though.

That's like organized.

>> Don't for me into your organiz It's organized chaos, right?

>> Yeah. I like all these phrases you are coming up with. Righteous anger. nice

chaos >> like album titles.

>> So what you've talked I mean you've come across as like hyper hyperconident you know and I know this about you. You've

also talked about the fact that you have been through your own periods of >> what other people may call failure right but what for you you've reframed to be you know this didn't work out but it was

a this didn't work out but it was a transition right and and not just with business just in general across your life. What is a mistake right that

life. What is a mistake right that you've made on your journey that when you go back and think about it you would have handled maybe differently?

>> H um I mean there's >> and just what lesson and what lesson did it teach you?

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. There's tons of like micro mistakes and maybe macro ones that are littered across. Um but one recurring one is as someone who is like

I really respect competence you know maybe is competitive too. I a mistake I've made is I've tended to give people

who are competent a lot more grace and free hand than sometimes they deserve.

So what that what that means is I've been in situations where you know I've employed people who are just terrible people like personally terrible people but because they were very competent

>> just let them you know just >> just let them be very competent doing their jobs really well but yeah they're making life miserable for everyone else they're just not good people and so that's that's that's one of the things

that it took me a while for me to just make it a mental model and the mental model now is no matter how great you are. I cannot walk with someone who is

are. I cannot walk with someone who is not a good person.

>> Um if you're not likable um by at least reasonable people. If

everyone who I ask about you says, "Oh, you're competent." Oh, but

you're competent." Oh, but >> but but so I can't work with people like that because it's almost never worth it.

And the reason why is because of course now I understand very fully why I'm everything I do. Every business I go on to build, every company I build, everything I create, there's an there's

an underlying why which is my life's purpose which I've stated and it is diametrically opposed to my life's purpose for me to be trying to accelerate you know people to live

responsible lives and you know do that with people who are irresponsible in them you know by themselves in many ways who are just nasty people who are rude

who yeah that's it's It's It's never worth it. So, I've learned that very

worth it. So, I've learned that very hardly. Um, but it took me years. It

hardly. Um, but it took me years. It

took me years to >> How do you navigate now? Like, how do you know if some Cuz I I assume that when you're hiring, you don't really always know that someone is a good person or not, right? So, so what are some of the things you look out for?

Personally, >> one, I do longer hiring cycles now. I It

takes me a while to to hire people. Um,

I also try to hire people who I've worked with before or who someone I know and trust has worked with and can vouch for. But of course, barring all of

for. But of course, barring all of those, do reference checks. What do you think about this person? This person is all great, but if you could give me one piece of feedback to handle them better,

what would it be? I just ask questions like that to get to, you know, understanding. But of course with

understanding. But of course with everyone within two weeks of working with someone you you know >> within two weeks of working with them closely you know who they are you see how they interact with other people. Um

a good way is just watch how they interact with people who are subordinate to them. That's that's just how you know

to them. That's that's just how you know everything. I've you know my my my

everything. I've you know my my my former driver >> just you know treating people who he thinks is above. of course, like it doesn't take a long while for you to

know um you know whether or not someone is a good person. Um and even in my personal life, I can't work with you if you're not a good person. Um so that's one thing that I think no matter even if

you're just starting out, you don't need to be in a position where you're hiring people. I don't don't work for someone

people. I don't don't work for someone who is not a good person. It's going to make your life miserable. Don't of

course don't be with someone who is not a good person.

>> Yeah. Just Yeah. It's not worth it. It's

not worth it. A lot of people don't actually realize how important uh behavior is. You know, how important

behavior is. You know, how important that is. I I think especially in in this

that is. I I think especially in in this these times that we're in, you know, you want to work with people who have positive energy.

>> Yes.

>> Um you you want that energy to come into the room. You're working on your you

the room. You're working on your you have an idea. You wake up in the morning. You've done the voice notes at

morning. You've done the voice notes at 3:00 a.m.

3:00 a.m.

>> You wake up and you go into the office and you're excited and you want to be able to share it with people who believe in it or even if they didn't believe in it at that moment. There's a way that they Yeah. They can also tell you I

they Yeah. They can also tell you I think this is rubbish. Like you know in a kind way. Yeah. Of course. I'm also

very happy for people tell me this idea is rubbish. I will laugh about it. I'm

is rubbish. I will laugh about it. I'm

very but of course it's you know don't be don't be nasty to people.

>> Um yeah and it also just made me audit my own self in what ways might might not even be a great person. Um so yeah it was very you know humbling experience for me.

>> And what's something that you've learned from watching another person who's building something or another person who's creating something? you could be someone specific that you've looked at on your journey like what's something

that you've learned on watching their journey.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Branches um is someone who I really love and admire. Another person

who I really admire is guy called Patrick Colton is the CE of this company called Stripe. But um one of the things

called Stripe. But um one of the things I've learned from Brian who is the founder and CEO of Airbnb is um you can't

outsource or delegate your passion. If

you if you really want to see something exist in the world, you have to embrace as much humility to go into the trenches yourself and figure out how it works. If

you're trying to build something, you need to you can't just surround yourself with the team of people and you have to and of course at some point you have to do that, right? And to scale, but the

underlying vision for for your passion, you're solely responsible for that. And

you have to ensure that even everyone on your team you you're you become the chief quality assurance officer that everyone understands your your vision at

the level at which you have it and they're executing to that level of quality. They're not watering it down

quality. They're not watering it down because once it starts to get watered down, it would it's a slippery slope. It

would continue to get watered down. So

just be in the trenches. Be comfortable

being that. Be comfortable doing that.

um especially early on but also as far out into the company as you can. His

company was going to IPO in 2020 before the pandemic hit. And when you're going to IPO, you have to write this document to the SEC and to NASDAQ. Usually you

would hire lawyers like an investment banks to do that for you. But he wrote this 15,000page IPO document himself because like through that he had to even

>> craft new language for how to describe this company that has changed so much.

Of course that's something for everyone else. It makes no sense for you to do

else. It makes no sense for you to do that. Your lawyers will, but doing that

that. Your lawyers will, but doing that from scratch is it's obscene. It makes

no sense. But that's the level of attention to just I care about this enough. And um that's who I aspire to be

enough. And um that's who I aspire to be like it like you know that's that level of attention is what I aspire to have with the things that I care about. Um

and of course also knowing how much is doing too much like is this important and like you shouldn't be doing everything you know. Yeah. But it's just this this specific thing. And it could be, oh, if I have a business, I want to

be talking to customers every week, no matter how busy I get. Like, I want to talk to customers. Think of maybe the owner of a bank who has had this bank for 40 years, saying, I'm going to talk

to customers at this bank, even if it's five of them every week. And doing that, >> wow, it would keep you very grounded with this is why I started this business. This is you become you're a

business. This is you become you're a different decision maker than someone who doesn't. That's an aspect of things

who doesn't. That's an aspect of things that you know so help me God I want to you know I want to embibe and and keep for for a very long time. Um it also prevent will prevent me from arriving

too early and you know oh I'm I'm so cool now I'm like you know I don't I don't touch this >> Kennedy you already arrived you've arrived but then you can keep

going is long. Exactly.

Exactly.

>> What season of life are you in now and what is it teaching you? I think I'm in a season where um I'm building foundations for

sustainability. There's a sense in which

sustainability. There's a sense in which I'll say maybe the previous season of my life started in early 20 beginning of 2020 and went on for about 4 years 5 years something like that then there was

a sense in which the way I approached it was not sustainable which was fine because I was 20 again I could do things that were not sustainable but I'm in the season where I am the different areas of

my life personally professionally friends relationships mentors I Um, I'm optimizing for like if

I'm going to run a race for 40 years, what quality of shoes should I get?

>> How should I train for that race? What

gear should I get and where versus, you know, if I'm going to compete at the local tournament, it doesn't really matter. I just wear shoes and, you know,

matter. I just wear shoes and, you know, so I'm I'm optimizing for that long term. Even with my own mindset, what

term. Even with my own mindset, what mindset would be, you know, is required for this stage? It's one understanding that there are no quick wins. There is

no quick turnarounds that you're trying to build. Whatever you're trying to

to build. Whatever you're trying to build now requires long-term patience.

You have to play decade game. Um and be intentional about doing that. You don't

have anything to prove to anyone.

>> All of those things that's setting me up for, you know, a much more sustainable life. I think that's where I am now. I

life. I think that's where I am now. I

hope I'm doing the right things.

>> Yeah.

>> That's inspiring, man.

>> Thank you. Earlier you said that everything is figure outable. What is

something that you're still figuring out?

>> So in this season of my life I'm trying to go back to the way I felt when I was 14 15 years

old that I could learn anything anything at all. I think that as I've grown

at all. I think that as I've grown older, there is a sense in which I felt that oh, some things are not

I don't think I can learn it. Like my

brother gave me a piano last year and I'm like I don't think I'm ever going to learn how to play the piano. I've just

never really tried. I'm trying to go back to a point where my default state is, oh, I can learn this. I can a new language. I can learn this. One of the

language. I can learn this. One of the reasons why I never really even try to learn Mandarin is it's twofold. When I

was just really busy, you know, cuz I was working while I was in grad school, but also I don't really think I'm going to learn it. I just I just thought I was not going to learn it. Um I just never

thought believe that I was going to actually learn it. And I think maybe that's why I struggle to again I or that's why I didn't even put in as much effort because I never believed I was going to learn it. And I think that as

we get older, the spectrum of things we don't believe we can do starts to increase.

>> Yeah.

>> And I want to keep it as narrow as possible. So that's something that I'm

possible. So that's something that I'm trying to what would it take for me to go back to being that person who can >> who can learn anything that I want to like if any human being can learn it, I

can >> at some point we die to ourselves and everything else is shut out. And I don't want to die into myself at not too

early. I want to be nimble. I want to be

early. I want to be nimble. I want to be nimble and learn things even if I might not use them professionally or I might not make money from them or even if they're not relevant to me. I want to

learn. I want to be back in that

learn. I want to be back in that position where I can learn things. And

um so that's what I'm trying to figure out. How much less stimulation would I

out. How much less stimulation would I require, you know, stimulation from social media, from >> fun things? Yeah. How much distractions will I have to keep at bay for me to go back?

>> Cuz the hard thing going back to where I was when I was 14, I did not have a phone, you know, there were not there was not that many exciting things happening in my life like >> Yeah.

>> So, it was it was easier to zoom in.

>> Yeah. Life was boring. So, it's easy for you to zoom in on on specific things, but okay. Practically, how do I with the

but okay. Practically, how do I with the life I have now, how do I go back to reasonably being that person who can learn and even use the things I have as an advantage? like I have a phone, I

an advantage? like I have a phone, I have an I have internet, I have friends, I you know it's easier for me to get things now to do things. So I think that's something I'm trying to that's a big thing I'm trying to figure out in

this phase of my life >> and that and that's very profound. You

know I um there's an example I usually use when I say that the reason why someone wouldn't know that they're a good golfer is because

they've never tried to play golf. Right?

you wouldn't know that you can be the fastest runner because you've never actually tried to run. Um, and a lot of times when we put ourselves in situations where we're open to learning

and trying new things, we discover that we have certain superpowers. I remember

several years ago like there was a project I worked on with some NFL players or some American football players, right, who had come to Nigeria to do um some football camps, right? and

they were running these football camps and we had these kids who had never touched a football before. So they they didn't have a clue how you throw the football or you know any of that and the

idea was to teach them these teach them the ideas of first of all what football was right and then to help them realize how to throw the ball. I remember this kid. He was like maybe 13, 14 years old.

kid. He was like maybe 13, 14 years old.

He picked up the football and he was throwing perfect spirals and everyone thought thought it was a fluke. So he

did it the first time. So he picks it up and he throws it and they're like, "Wait, what? You've never touched a

"Wait, what? You've never touched a football before?"

football before?" >> And they try it again. And this guy is literally throwing perfect spirals over and over again. Now, will he ever have known that he had capacity for that if

he never touched the football? And so

it's interesting the number of people who don't actually know that they can do something because they never try.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So yeah, that's powerful. I want you to say something to your 18-year-old self, Kennedy. He's watching you right now.

Kennedy. He's watching you right now.

What What were you called when you were a kid? What was like a nickname?

a kid? What was like a nickname?

>> My mom used to call me Kenny Baba.

>> Kenny Boba. So you're going to speak to Kenny Baba.

>> Yeah. I'm speaking to my my younger self. A lot of what he wanted and

self. A lot of what he wanted and thought he would get much later in life.

um he got it much sooner than he did and realized that he needs more. He needs to demand more from himself. Um he needs to

demand more things that are more than the mundane from himself. Yeah. And he's

also just more competent than he thought he was. He should just enjoy his life

he was. He should just enjoy his life because things would things would be fine ultimately things would be fine.

Um, so all the pressure was maybe not not necessary.

>> Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't that necessary.

>> Yeah, >> that that's really beautiful.

>> It was great having I feel like we can go on, but it was great having you on the show. Thank you so much for sharing

the show. Thank you so much for sharing those beautiful nuggets with us. I

definitely learned from it and I know that our audience will be pleased to learn from the things that you shared today.

>> Just happy to be here.

>> I hope you enjoyed it too.

>> Just happy to be here. Thank you so much.

>> Great. Great. Thank you for being here.

Of course. Of course.

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