how real is reality tv?

Do I want to keep the honor this friendship or do I want a chance at $5 million? I love reality TV. I just don't

million? I love reality TV. I just don't believe anything you're saying more.

MORE.

I actually had an opportunity to audition for Wow.

One audition changes everything.

Yeah. Shark Tank.

Yes. I can't believe that character did that and they shouldn't or shouldn't have been doing that.

A peak behind the curtain.

Reality TV.

Hello and welcome back to Hot Pursuit, a podcast about creating conversations where nothing is off limits. This

podcast was produced by Asian Boss Girl.

I'm M. I'm Jen.

And I'm Meline. So today we're talking about the thing that many of us spend many hours of our life doing, which is reality TV. Binging reality TV.

reality TV. Binging reality TV.

Yeah. We're going to talk about is reality TV good for you or not? Uh

what's missing in the reality TV landscape and which are some of our favorites and what does that say about ourselves and society? So, this will be a hot juicy episode.

Sounds juicy.

There's so much to say about this topic and I feel like people don't really people talk about what happens in reality TV but not what it represents.

So, I'm really excited about this topic.

You know what else is pretty juicy? Uh,

lobster rolls, oysters, uh, Boston, maybe Harvard Business School.

So, we have some really exciting news.

We were invited to speak at Harvard Business School and we will be on campus April 17th. We will have more updates

April 17th. We will have more updates and details on our Instagram, so please follow us there. And we can't wait to see and meet some of you guys. So, thank

you so much, Harvard, for inviting us.

Um, this feels insanely surreal. I don't

know what we're doing there, but I shouldn't say that because that's impossible to do.

Mama, we're going to Harvard.

Anyways, back to reality TV.

Back to reality TV. I have some reality TV do we watch, do we not watch list to kick us off, we're going to see what reality TV we watch and don't

watch. And so I'm going to list off a

watch. And so I'm going to list off a bunch of them and you say yes, no, yay, nay. That's my show. That's not my show.

nay. That's my show. That's not my show.

We're really trying to rapid fire this.

Our very slow rapid fire.

It's just fire. There is no rapid. Okay,

so Love Island.

No.

Yes.

Yes. A Survivor.

Yes.

No.

I did not watch Love is Blind.

I've fallen off.

I can't I can't stand love is Blind.

We can get into that.

Yeah. I can't.

Love is blind. Mads with you. Yeah.

On my own every season.

Kardashians.

Yes.

Yeah. I like that.

I love Kardashians.

Actually never seen the Kardashians.

Really?

I think you would love it.

Really?

Yeah. You should you should give it a shot.

You should watch it.

There's like 14 seasons though, so that might be a bad thing to start now.

You could start anywhere.

They're so fun to watch.

Shark Tank.

Yes.

Love Shark Tank.

Shark Tank.

Singles Inferno.

Yes. I only watched this last season because it was so good. I live with you.

It was very juicy. Very juicy.

Yeah.

The X Factor.

What's that? I don't know. I know.

Is that the talent show?

That's a talent show.

That's the one that One Direction was on, I think.

No, it doesn't. I don't know.

No, it was.

It was, right? Yeah.

Okay. That's the only thing I know about it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I'll watch it when it's on like at the hotel in the lobby.

I think I've only seen clips of it on short form.

Yeah.

Like I don't think I've ever actually Is that the one where they like turn around in the chair, they push the button?

The golden ticket.

But they do have a button if they if they don't want you to keep going, they'll just like X you and then you have to get off stage.

They literally interrupt you.

Yeah. They're like And if you get four, then you have you have you have to leave.

That's rude. But they also have a golden button. If you're really good, they hit

button. If you're really good, they hit the golden button.

Okay. I have seen that on You get to like skip all the subsequent auditions and you go straight to the finale.

Wow. It's like Willy Wonka's golden ticket.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Come right on in. Okay. Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

I've seen like two episodes.

Same.

I've not seen the show at all, but it's insane.

People have been like, "You need to watch it."

watch it." It's crazy.

Yeah. I only watched two episodes and it was wild.

I know. I was like wild.

I'm not sure these girls are Mormon.

I don't know.

Yeah, they do be doing some crazy stuff.

They do crazy stuff.

Like normal common folk don't do that.

No, but they are participating in paraphernalia.

Yeah, crazy trauma will do that to you.

Oh, okay.

Jing hot.

The Bachelor.

No, I've watched the Golden Bachelor.

That was cute.

Was it good?

It was It was really good. It's old

people.

It's really sweet. So, it's like old people dating. A lot of them are like

people dating. A lot of them are like widows or divorcees. Most I think most of them are widows.

I love widowers. It's like giving and they get to like find love again.

Yeah.

And we need to see different age ranges on TV, not just like young hot 20 people.

Yeah. It was juicy. I loved it cuz all these women are like so confident. All

the men are so confident.

Yeah. Cuz they're in their full for their 50s 60s. They got their uh what's this called? Hearing aids.

It's really cute.

I saw a lot of ads for that.

Yeah.

Imagine having hearing aids and still spitting game.

They call it ear candy.

I want that life.

And then when they're being ringing annoying, you just take it out.

Yeah. Or just turn it down.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm going to have the most swag earpiece ever.

You going to like bedazzle?

No, cuz that's a little too obvious.

Oh, what are you going to do?

I don't know. Inspiration will come when I'm 60.

Okay, great. Can't wait to see. Uh,

Dancing with the Stars. I've never

watched it.

If there is a star that I want to watch, but usually they choose like the supporting cast to go on Dancing with the Stars cuz they can't get Kanye to

get like Dance with people.

They they can't they can't do that. They

They get I don't know.

It's like Dancing with the Almost stars.

Yeah. Yeah. They're like the supporting cast, but they can be stars.

I've noticed like a lot of Olympians, right? Like go to Olympian.

right? Like go to Olympian.

Oh, those those people are stars. It's

like it's like people who are coming up versus like already A-list. I don't

know.

They had Ralph Machio on there. He's a

karate kid.

Oh.

Oh, I've actually never really watched a show.

I've never watched it.

It's fine. It's f It's just funny to see people who are so good at their craft try something else.

Oh, okay. I love that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I imagine it must be exhausting cuz especially if you don't dance, like you have to rehearse all day like a twoinut performance.

Maybe it's inspiring too to see that like, oh, if they can do this other totally different thing.

Yeah.

Okay. I know people love the show though, Dancing with the Stars.

Vanderpump Rules.

Never seen it.

I've never seen it either. I've heard.

Why is it on the list?

Because it's really popular.

Oh, yeah.

The host of Love Islands USA used to be like one of the stars of Vanderpump Rules.

And it was Beloved.

I actually have no idea. Oh,

I thought it was a drama, but it's reality.

I think it's reality. Yeah.

Oh.

Who's Vanderpump? What is it? A family.

And why does he rule or she rules?

I think it's a family. I have actually no idea.

Or they rule.

Do you watch Vanderpump Rules?

Do we need to be watching Vanderpump Rules?

Big Brother.

What the?

No, I watch Big Brother.

What is it?

Not all the seasons. Um, they basically put like 20 people in a house and like there's cameras everywhere and they have competitions and then they vote people off. Um, and then you form like

off. Um, and then you form like alliances and then you you like form alliances to vote other people off and then you like scheme to get your way to the end.

Survivor without without the physical challenges. Yeah.

And without romance. There's like no romance. There could be

romance. There could be really, but sometimes there's romances that form and then those are like often the strongest alliances because they're like in love and loyal to each other till the end.

Love always.

It always prevails.

Yes. The great British baking show. I

know people love this show. I've never

watched it. I don't watch anything really but but I know people love it.

My sister watches it. She thinks it's so fun because like there's competition, but there's also the the British um the charm and the politeness and the manners. So they're like, "Oh, I'm right

manners. So they're like, "Oh, I'm right behind you."

behind you." British accents.

Yeah. The accents, the manners behind you.

Must be so fun.

I've heard people love this show and they'll like throw it on and just like it's like a comfort wash. just like we watch it when we get home.

They said it gives them like hope and humanity because like everyone's so delightful and charming.

I've heard people just like I like at work they'll be like I cannot wait to go home and watch the new episode.

Should we watch this guys? We need to watch this. Okay, we watch

watch this. Okay, we watch Selling Sunset. No, I've seen a few

Selling Sunset. No, I've seen a few episodes like here and there when I'm at people's houses and it is really quite entertaining, but I don't really know anything about it.

I'm just like, what's this person going to do? Okay, now what are you going to

to do? Okay, now what are you going to do?

And now a beautiful home for 65 million.

Okay. Real Housewives.

No.

No, I've never seen an episode of this actually.

Wait, but it's like a whole franchise.

There's so much happening.

Yeah. Uh, The Voice, The Button Show.

I love The Voice. Wait, what was the one earlier?

X Factor.

I feel like a gorilla.

The Voice is like they audition on stage and if the artist wants to be their mentor and wants them on the show, then they and then their chair turns around slowly.

Oh, but you don't get mentorship in You do.

The X Factor.

Oh. Oh,

no.

Okay.

It's just your talent.

Oh, yeah. It's slightly different.

Is XFactor also singing? We

No. Xactor. X Factor is a talent show and anyone can perform on anything.

You could be like jumping on like balls.

Yeah, you can do anything you want on XFactor.

Okay. Okay.

The voice you can only sing. Yes.

Levels. It's very good.

The voice.

I don't think a lot of stars really come out of The Voice.

No.

Or American Idol just kind Yeah. Okay. Last few. Jersey Shore.

Yeah. Okay. Last few. Jersey Shore.

I watched No. Is that I wasn't allowed to watch

No. Is that I wasn't allowed to watch that.

Is that an old thing?

Yeah, it's really old.

Why is this on here?

Chopped.

I love Chopped.

What is Chopped?

Where? Okay. It's so fun because they every single episode they give you No, that's Iron Chef. Chopped is okay. you

have to make like I don't know three courses and they give everyone a like a basket full of just like random ingredients and they're like make that's fun

make a dessert out of marzipan a carrot some bitter melon and then like chili peppers or like the world's spiciest chili and then they have to just like creatively come up with something within 30 minutes it's kind of crazy

we should do our own chopped one day I would lose I would be chopped Friday night Friday night chopped just go into your fridge with my parents during the pandemic cuz we were bored and had nothing to do really.

It was really fun.

What did each person make?

It was very creative. Like my father uh basically took all the ingredients and blended it together and that's how we used all the ingredients. It tasted

terrible. My mom like made this like create she like made the co thing with like she made like a ball of like granola and something and then like stuck veggie straws in them to like make

a co thing and we like graded each other on like presentation taste and like overall it was very cute.

What did you make and then who won? I

forgot what I I made like like little pebble stones in my plate out of like potato pancake and then I made like a potato pancake granola ball with like

orange zest on top or something.

And who won?

That sounds I don't know who won but it was not my father.

He just threw everything in a Vitamix.

What were the ingredients?

It was like um uh granola chewy granola bars, oranges, veggie straws, ol black olives. Um

olives. Um and then some other rand random.

That's That's very random.

Yeah.

E, I know it's Yeah, that's what they would have on Chopped is something like that.

Like five things that don't go together at all.

Yeah.

And they like make something delicious.

Wait, so did Okay, I'm getting ideas now. So each of us get to put together

now. So each of us get to put together what those ingredients are for other people. So like, did you choose your

people. So like, did you choose your ingredients for your parents?

No, we all have the same ingredients for the same ingredients.

I'm like, how much can we [ __ ] each other?

Okay.

Okay. Say yes to the dress.

These are really old shows. This This is dating us. But yeah, I freaking love

dating us. But yeah, I freaking love that show.

Is it still going?

I don't think so. I think I think they're just doing reruns right now.

They have it uploaded onto some streaming service.

You could just watch it.

Yeah. I just like watching people try on dresses, but it's also like kind of dramatic in its own sense because people are like bringing their their mom but not their mother-in-law and then the mother-in-law shows up like I wanted to

be here. Why didn't you invite me?

be here. Why didn't you invite me?

Drama, the heart of everything.

Drama.

Uh, last one is Beast Games.

Yeah, I watched it. There was also a rom romantic connection that formed and they made it pretty far.

There was a what? A romance.

A romantic connection. Yeah.

Do you form alliances in Biscuit?

Uh-huh. You have to. Yeah.

I think it's so fun when you see who's align who aligns and who betrays who at the end when you're faced with do I want to keep the honor this friendship or do I want a

chance at $5 million and you get to see who picks what.

Crazy.

$5 million is a lot.

I would probably betray people. Would

you?

For five. I don't know. The thing is like when you're in the situation, I'm sure it feels so intense. Like you feel like it's life or death.

Yeah. It's like, do I want to just take all this for myself or share it with a friend? I have all the power right now.

Would you betray me?

Um, I don't know. Maybe we would make an alliance beforehand. Be like, "One of us

alliance beforehand. Be like, "One of us has to make it to the end. I'll give you half."

half." I would I think I would feel more comfortable betraying one of you because I know that we can repair it afterwards because cuz you know, I'd be like, "I'm so sorry. Like, I know that was wrong.

so sorry. Like, I know that was wrong.

That was really [ __ ] up, but here's here's millions of money.

It ain't half but it's a million.

I'm sure they probably write that in the contract though. Those producers are

contract though. Those producers are smart.

Yeah. Yeah. Like you cannot you can't make any um money alliances.

But we would find a way to share with each other. I think so.

each other. I think so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So yes, I would betray you.

The thing is we have to give them a good show that they keep us on the show long enough and make it favorable for you to stay because you definitely can see that like they'll change the rules. I don't

not with BTM's other shows like this.

They'll change the rules because they see certain character personalities and they're like gotta push the narrative.

Yes. Yes. Keep them there.

Producers are the mastermind of every reality TV show.

Yeah.

It's kind of crazy.

They're kind of evil sometimes.

Yeah.

They're exploiting human nature.

Vulnerabilities.

Yeah. You know what? If you were to win a million dollars, you know what you need to do on those? Pay taxes.

It's true. Sometimes they just wire you the full five million. And they don't withhold taxes.

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to learn more. All right, reality TV.

Why do you guys think people love or hate reality TV?

Maybe the better question is how do you feel about reality TV?

I love reality TV. I love watching reality TV. But what I love more than

reality TV. But what I love more than watching reality TV is watching it and talking about it with my friends.

You love that more than actually watching it.

Wow.

Because gossip and drama is not great IRL. So it's better when we can talk

IRL. So it's better when we can talk about other people's gossip and drama.

It is so true. Yeah. Don't you love other people's drama?

Then you can just judge them.

You can just judge them and feel good about yourself or maybe feel worse about yourself, but it has nothing to do with you.

I think that's what makes it so appealing.

And everybody has strong opinions about reality TV show characters because the characters are larger than life and more colorful. So, it's exciting to see

colorful. So, it's exciting to see people live that out loud.

What comes to mind when you're talking about that? Cuz you are so excited. I'm

about that? Cuz you are so excited. I'm

like, what are you thinking of?

Um, recently from last summer it was Love Island because I've never seen a reality TV show universally be experienced by like so many people in

my life. And I think something about the

my life. And I think something about the formula in that season of Love Island where it was like basically every day felt like you were literally living it with them. And therefore there was

with them. And therefore there was something to talk about every day.

Yeah. That was crazy cuz they were like shooting it and then they were turning around the episode in like two days, right? Like it was it was live and so

right? Like it was it was live and so like you would watch it and be like this literally just happened 2 days ago.

Mhm. Like they're in there right now and you could be like at your workday thinking like what do you think this guy's going to pull today? On Big

Brother, they literally have like live streams, 24-hour cameras in the house, so you can like constantly be watching the live stream of Big Brother. It's

like a fish tank.

It's a fish to watch them.

Yeah. If anyone's ever seen the movie The Truman Show, it's basically the same concept where it's like we somehow just love to watch other humans be human in all of the emotions, the loudest

emotions, the quietest emotions, the most dramatic big happy emotions when they're falling in love, and then also when they're like sad and heartbroken.

And we love to see like everything in between.

Yeah.

Something that I'm learning now that one I live with you and I watch reality TV now and two having to be on camera for this whole podcast thing like the camera

really doesn't hide anything. And so I have this I have this little not really mantra but this little like slogan that I always say which I I believe is shown really well in reality TV which is you cannot

cheat the human. And so humans are really smart. I believe they can like

really smart. I believe they can like tell true intentions and maybe you can be manipulated initially but like people will always find out and they will always know and I think in reality TV

everything is laid bare so even if like someone's intentions are to not find love or to not get the money or to like betray or whatever or just like get clout like everyone can tell everyone

that's watching and so there's something really honest that you can see the characters like aren't even aware of that's happening and um is echoing your

point of humans are just humans and they can't and they really cannot hide it when the camera's on even if they're trying to.

Do you feel like in the shows that you've watched like Chopped?

Yeah.

Or the Kardashian episodes that you've watched. Do you feel some of that is

watched. Do you feel some of that is true in how the emotions are being displayed?

What draws you to those shows? It's

what's appealing about Kardashians is because they've been doing it for so long. You can tell in the earlier

long. You can tell in the earlier seasons that um they're more aware of the camera, but maybe in like season 10, they're so used to the cameras being around that they just talk to each other like it's not

even there. So, you really do get that

even there. So, you really do get that honest feedback loop. You get to see them interacting with each other as sisters, like for realies. Um, and even like when we watch over our podcast

clips and our recordings, you can you can see when someone's like zoning out, you can see when someone's bored or upset. It's all in the eyes. It's all in

upset. It's all in the eyes. It's all in the eyes. It's all in the micro

the eyes. It's all in the micro expressions. Like they they always say

expressions. Like they they always say like you can't cheat the human because you you you can't even if you're trying to act like it, you just can't. So, I

think that's what's appealing. Even with

like Singles Inferno, you see their like the slightest shift in eye and you're like, "Oh, oh, she didn't like that."

You see people try to change their what they're being perceived as and you see that it is unsuccessful.

Like, well, it might be successful to their person that they're directly talking to in the moment, but the true colors always come out.

But I have a question for you. So, you

don't really watch much reality TV.

You're drawing from like a few episodes you've seen in the past. Yeah.

What is it about reality TV that turns you off or like does not peique your interest?

It feels contrived because I know it's the narrative is pushed by producers and the biggest personalities are the one

that gets get the most screen time. And

it doesn't feel real. I feel people in their day-to-day are just more boring. I don't know. Or or people are

boring. I don't know. Or or people are trying too hard. It just doesn't feel real and it's frustrating to me. That's

why I like Survivor because people are literally stripped down completely. They

don't have phones. They don't have makeup. They don't have clothes. They're

makeup. They don't have clothes. They're

stinky. And so when you're when you're tired and smelly and hungry, you behave, I guess, more consistently with who you really feel like on the inside. You

don't feel as like Yeah. You don't have anything to put on

Yeah. You don't have anything to put on a show.

No. No. All your masks are gone.

Yeah.

And so like the casting is important.

Yeah. That's a whole another topic around like how producers find the right personalities for reality TV concepts that they're trying to like especially for like Singles

Inferno or Love is Blind like how do you cast the right personality ingredients to like collide with each other in explosive ways like intentionally explosive ways.

Yeah, cuz you can't just have a boring person either. Then that's not fun. So I

person either. Then that's not fun. So I

don't know. It was so funny because there was one night where me and Jay were watching Love is Blind and Emily was over because she had had dinner with us. And so we turn it on and she goes

us. And so we turn it on and she goes she she succumbed for like 10 minutes.

She's laying on the couch reluctantly and she goes, "I just don't believe anything you're saying. I just don't believe you. I got to go." And then she

believe you. I got to go." And then she just rips herself off the couch and leaves.

She's like, "It's not true. I don't

believe it."

Like if you're going to lie, practice practice being believable. I want to believe it. I I want to I want to root

believe it. I I want to I want to root for you.

And if you're saying stuff like I I'm like a very genuine person. I always

care uh about like you more than I care about me. And then I go see you do

about me. And then I go see you do something selfish. I'm just like, "Shut

something selfish. I'm just like, "Shut up.

Shut up.

Get out. Go home.

And see, those are the characters on reality TV that I like watching the most because I I find it fascinating seeing how they think that they're fooling everybody, but they actually aren't.

So, for example, in a recent season of Singles Infern, there's one female character, Mina Sue, who you can see is putting on a great show, but like nobody is buying it. The public is not buying

it. The people on the show not even

it. The people on the show not even buying it. And that dissonance is

buying it. And that dissonance is interesting to me. That's actually like find it interesting to watch.

It's so interesting to watch. She makes

for good television, but you're just like, "Who do you think you are?"

That was a time where Emily said she was going to leave after dinner because she was like, "I'm not watching this." And

then she stood in front of the camera, put her jacket on, and stood there for another hour and then she took her jacket off and then slowly sat on the couch and then she stayed until 3:00 a.m.

a.m.

Yeah. We watched that until like 3:00 4 a.m.

a.m.

Yeah. She sits on the couch and then she lays and snuggles next to me and I'm like, "Oh, so you're watching."

It was good. This season was good.

Good.

It's just interesting to see how one person can can attempt to be this other person. And I think what makes it

person. And I think what makes it appealing is like you get to watch how people react to her. Like you get to see is this person going to buy it? Is this

person going to buy it? Oh, this person isn't buying it.

What are they going to say to her? How

are they going to call her out? And

that's what's interesting. Not the

personality itself, just people just seeing like the the levels of, "Oh, I I see who you are. I see what you're doing.

You can't do this." Or, "I don't know. I

don't see what you're doing. I think

you're the greatest person ever. I

believe your lies. You can do this." So,

you get to see like the push and pull.

Maybe I do like reality television.

No, I just like I just like singles Inferno.

I think you like good reality TV because I think thereity shows like The Bachelor that started off feeling more authentic and as that show has gone on, I think it's like now 15 or 16 seasons,

you can feel that it is contrived, that the story lines are like blown up to be bigger than it is. And like a lot of people have moved on from that to things like Love Island that are feeling more

authentic because the humans you feel like are not being like meddled with by the hands of the producers. M.

So maybe you like good reality TV, just not the like really produced ones that are trying to be sold to you as fake and you're like I don't you can't fool me. I'm not buying that. This is

fool me. I'm not buying that. This is

real.

Would you guys ever participate in reality TV?

Yes.

I would love I would I always say I would love to watch Emma on Love Islands. I think it would be [ __ ] [ __ ]

Islands. I think it would be [ __ ] [ __ ] up, let me tell you.

Have all of them wrapped around her finger.

You should see her in real life. I'm

just What's going on, M? Every day she comes over, I'm like, "What? What are we What happened today?"

Your life is a reality TV show that we get to experience.

There's not a lot we reveal on this podcast.

We keep it stories prim and proper.

Yeah.

Even though I throw exploives here and there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Even though my shirt says line.

So Jay is what would you participate in reality TV? Like say say you get a deal

reality TV? Like say say you get a deal to see that.

No, I wouldn't.

If Okay, if you had to, what show would you want to be on? What reality show would you want to participate on?

Okay. I've always said that I think it would be fascinating to be on Love is Blind just to see can how far could I really fall in love?

Rock Love is blind. Like

can I really fall in love in a pod? You

know, that's what everyone asks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You belong on that show. I think.

What? Why?

You are the archetype.

What is the archetype?

I see their soul.

Oh. Oh, see that's why I don't like love is blind.

Yeah, but then I might be the person after the review that's like, I don't know. I just can't really connect the

know. I just can't really connect the voice to the person in front of me.

Translation, you're ugly. You're ugly.

you're ugly. You're ugly.

I would pay to watch that.

Oh, we would have viewing parties. Emily

would stay for that one. I would be in like Cancun, Mexico being like, "Yeah, we're just really trying to build our connection."

connection." The thing about Jen is she she looks very like nice and pleasant on the outside. I mean, which she is, but on

outside. I mean, which she is, but on the inside she is um just collecting data very quietly and um she is reading

your soul to filth in her head and then she waits for the right time to reveal that. So, I would just love to see that

that. So, I would just love to see that on on Love is Blind, like make it all the way to almost the engagement part and be like, "You know what? I think about you actually based

what? I think about you actually based off A, B, and C, X, Y, and Z. I actually

don't see you for the rest of my life."

A new one at the wedding ceremony.

But she would say it all with a smile on her face and like with a softness in her voice. So, you would think that you're

voice. So, you would think that you're getting a compliment.

She would say it in a nice way. She

wouldn't be very direct with it, but she would say everything that you need to hear. She goes all the way around. She

hear. She goes all the way around. She

never goes direct. But but at the end of it, you're like, I think an arrow just went through my heart.

Yeah. I think I'm dying.

Bye. Now,

how about you? What show would you want to be on?

Oh, no.

What reality show would you want to be on?

You always said Love Island games.

Games.

Love Island Games.

My initial reaction would be like, yes, I want to participate, but I'm also like a never say never type of person. So, um

I think I would come out mauled.

Really? What would you be?

What? What just happened?

You didn't answer my question.

What show What reality TV show would you want to be on?

I don't really want to be on one.

If you had to be on a reality TV show, which one would you choose based off the ones you have watched, which is like three or four? This might be a great segue because I feel like there's so

many dating shows and like obviously that would be juicy to be to be a part of, but I think it would be interesting to participate in reality TV in another

form. So like with your friends or with

form. So like with your friends or with your parents or I don't know, oh my god, you know what? What if there was a reality TV show that followed people

around their corporate jobs?

Well, like you know what I mean? And you

could see like how shitty corporate America really is and that people so many people would like connect with that. I don't want that to be me though.

that. I don't want that to be me though.

Like undercover boss. You want to be an undercover boss.

I haven't watched that. Maybe. No, I

don't want to be the boss. But I think like seeing the the real relationships that happen within the corporate world and like the alliances that are made, like the sucking up that people will do, like the fakeness that people have to

put on would be so relatable, you know.

But I I'm not answering your question because I don't want to be a part of that.

Um, she just said no.

So there's no I want to see you on Love Island Games.

Why?

Because I want to see you pretend to like someone to get to the end because they're the biggest competitor in the game.

So all of America can be like, "She's full of shit."

Or they're just like, "Yeah, get to the end. Get the money."

end. Get the money."

It's not that much money though.

It's actually not that much money. A lot

of them are actually on love editing games it seems like to fall in love. So

Oh wow.

You would really [ __ ] [ __ ] up on that.

Yeah. For money like wouldn't you rather do like beast games or something because there's like so much money.

Yes. And there's so many bribes in the middle of it. They're like I'll give you 100k if you self eliminate. Okay. Well,

Love Island games also always features like stars from the past that like can rekindle or have a second chance and then because they get to pair with different people, they get to like try

out all the different relationships.

The thought of that is not exciting to me. Talk

going back to your corporate reality TV show idea.

What are things that in the It's a lot of like food shows and dating shows and then like general survival of some kind shows. What else

do you would would you would you want to see? I think there's not enough

see? I think there's not enough friendship.

You see friendship evolve because castmates meet each other and then loyalties form, but you don't see friendship that has a long life behind

it. And maybe the reason is it's too

it. And maybe the reason is it's too stable. it's too stable, it's too

stable. it's too stable, it's too boring, or it's people that are smart and want to protect their friendships are like, I will never risk that for reality TV. Um, there's I feel like

reality TV. Um, there's I feel like there's not enough emphasis on that and all the emphasis is on dating.

Yeah. When you said friendship, I was thinking about the the reality TV show I watched in high school that like Laguna Beach and the Hills, which is about like a group of friends. So, it's kind of

like the Gossip Girl 90210 concept, but then like real life people, a lot of that is actually scripted, which they're all like exposing now. But the drama is with like friendship fights and stuff

and like friendships like fall apart.

Like these two best friends like move to LA and the Hills and then they like like Kristen Cavaleri and Lauren Conor and then they like have this huge falling out. Mhm.

out. Mhm.

So I guess like healthy friendship is not like made for reality TV because it is stable, but friendship drama has made for good reality TV.

What do you think is missing?

Um, I think that the fusion of like vlogs and reality TV I think would be more interesting because I feel like what we look for in reality TV sometimes

is the aspirational or like larger than life stuff, but there's this other whole niche market that seems to be emerging now with vlogs and creators just like filming their day-to-day lives that some

fusion of those two things together, I think it would be interesting. So

instead of like looking at larger than life personalities on TV, but seeing people that are truly relatable on a big screen, I think would be fascinating, which is why I think shows like Love

Island and some of these other newer ones are resonating more because they seem to feature people that feel more like the rest of us instead of Naturally Born and Bred to be like a selling

sunset star or something like that. I

would like to see I like day in the lives of people who you wouldn't naturally be drawn to wanting to follow

throughout the day like some some middle-aged man who works in I don't know financial planning and you get to see his life and his motivations for

doing everything what he's thinking about during the day. Um because I I think when I see people on the street, I'm always very curious about like what they're doing, where they're going. And

I think it would be cool just to follow someone in their day-to-day life and be like, "Oh, what what are he what is he having for lunch today? Who made his lunch? Is it microwavable? Why does he

lunch? Is it microwavable? Why does he like the microwavable food?" Just like slice of life. Very very boring. I think

I would like that. It makes it makes I feel real reality television kind of blows life out of proportion. It blows

certain arguments and situations out of proportion. So, if we can just like

proportion. So, if we can just like bring it back to what is normal and you get to just follow one person around for a day, I think that would be fun. I

don't know, more I don't know what I would call it.

just normal life without the sets, without anything, without a big house.

Like you want to see mess kind of like Humans of New York or like street interviews like people just come and talk about their lives cuz there's so many stories in normal day-to-day life that I I would want to know.

Yeah. It reminds me of that YouTuber who is this like older Alaskan dude. Do you

know who I'm talking about? Who like

films his day?

Outdoor voice. Maybe.

Wait. Outdoor Boys.

I don't know. Let me look it up.

Does he survive?

Yeah. He like films his whole day where like out in the tundra and then he's like outdoors.

He like makes a fire.

Like give that man a production budget, you know? I feel like people would love

you know? I feel like people would love to watch. That's what I would want to

to watch. That's what I would want to watch. Like vlogs of very interesting

watch. Like vlogs of very interesting people every day.

Boys, is that who that is?

I think so.

Yeah, it's who she always watches, right?

You're like, "Hey, hey guys."

Luke here.

Yeah. Yeah.

Luke here from the Outdoor Boys YouTube channel.

Today we're going to be crabbing, fishing, and hunting for tarans.

Like if he had reality TV budget.

Yeah. But I think his appeal is because he doesn't have a budget at all and he just has 15 GoPros that he sets up.

Yeah. Give reality TV back to the people.

It might even be interesting to see if the show was actually to see how reality TV is made, you know, like seeing when the producer pushes someone, when the producer bribes

someone, when they hear an argument happening, they what the conversation is like behind the scenes to say, "Go stoke that fire." Or like um when watching a

that fire." Or like um when watching a producer watch the cast and say, "That's who our victim is."

Like that would be really interesting to me because then because then you see what goes on behind entertainment and media and how none of it is real.

None of it is real.

I love that.

A show about reality television.

Yeah. About creating a good show.

Yes. It's a little bit like uh Pop Star Academy that detailed how they formed Cat's Eye.

Oh. where they went through like what the what like Hib and Geffen execs are seeing in each girl and like the the chemistry that they need to build in a multi-ethnic group and then like all

their like deliberation meetings and stuff kind of like that a little bit of like like I I always say that I would love to see how do they choose for example Love is blind the right set

of like 20 people to put into the pods together. How do they know that some of

together. How do they know that some of them will fall in love? They need enough people to fall in love. enough like

toxic personalities paired with people who are like earnestly trying to find love paired with some like clout chasers. It's like a very meticulous

chasers. It's like a very meticulous like ingredient stew to like Yeah. build.

I would love I'd love to be in those meetings.

Yeah. I would love to hear the conversation of everyone that is producing the show saying like, "Oh [ __ ] no one's falling in love. What do

we do?"

You know, how do we push this?

Yeah. Like we have we have seven more episodes to go. This couple is not going to make it. How can we incentivize them?

And then like the talks that they have with the contestants and then and then you see how the behavior changes because the incentive is to stay on the show, get paid, maybe get fame. That would be cool. I would

get fame. That would be cool. I would

watch that. A peak behind the curtain.

I wonder if they intentionally don't have shows like that.

Yes, 100%.

Yeah.

One of us will have to go undercover.

One of us will have to just go on a reality TV show.

Nosies as a mole.

No, you No, you were.

You were made for it. pointing at you.

How about you vote in the comments who would be the best reality TV star?

I've always thought if I were on one, I would want to just like stir the pot in every single person. Yeah,

you would. I just be like, and then I love I love a breaking the fourth wall moment where the person will do something and then look directly at the camera and be

like I think I would I would do a lot of that, but I'm sure they have rules against that too, like don't look at the camera. I actually had an opportunity to

camera. I actually had an opportunity to audition for a reality show and eh I didn't make it.

Um, we did some chemistry tests and we we did some simulations like, oh, if we were to go and review this one item, what would we say? And so they were

like, just be yourself. Don't be more than yourself. Don't be less. Just be

than yourself. Don't be less. Just be

yourself. So I was, we went into it like, okay, yeah, sure. Like, I will review this item the way I would review it. But I noticed intermittently the

it. But I noticed intermittently the producers would be like, okay, cut. um

you don't like this type of food, right?

Yeah. Really play into that. Maybe make

some like disgusting faces kind of off camera, but enough that the camera can see it. Um so they're like, "Just be

see it. Um so they're like, "Just be you. Just be authentic, but really play

you. Just be authentic, but really play into to that, like really like play that up." So over over the time they the

up." So over over the time they the producers would keep cutting in and be like, "Oh, this person hates bugs. why

don't you scare them with this fake bug thing? And I'm like, but I wouldn't do

thing? And I'm like, but I wouldn't do that. They're like, no, no, no. It's

that. They're like, no, no, no. It's

okay. It'll it'll be a funny moment. Um,

and they said intermittently just like, as you are being filmed and as you are interacting with these people, make sure you're always creating content. That's

what they said. Always create a moment.

Always be searching for that moment. Um,

and make sure it's like within like one to two minutes of each other. So it

becomes less of you being you and it becomes more of you playing up who you would be in that situation. So now that

you've had that experience, do you watch reality TV with a completely new set of eyes?

Yeah. Nothing is real. I don't I don't watch reality television.

Is that why you don't watch reality TV?

I think that's why I took a big step back from it.

Wow.

One audition changes everything.

Yeah. It's interesting too that they're like, "Be authentic, but also be kind of fake, but also be authentic." Yeah.

I even told the producer that. I was

like, "I don't know what you want me to do because you tell me to be yourself."

And they're like, "Yes, be yourself."

And I'm like, "But you're telling me all these other rules to follow." And

they're like, "There's no rules." And

I'm like, "But you're literally giving me rules. I don't know what to do." If

me rules. I don't know what to do." If

you had to give a percentage to how much was actually you when you were on that set versus how much you felt like you were working for the producer, what would you say?

Me and my personality was the foundation and then it's kind of like me. I am cake and then everything else that's played up is frosting and candles and balloons

and everything just to make this this one picturesque moment. But I'm just like the plain yellow cake underneath.

Yeah. So, probably maybe 60% is me and 40% which is a lot Wow.

is satisfying the producer.

But notably, they are drawing out things that are in you, but they're playing it up to be they're turning up the volume.

They're playing it up to be bigger, which I think is kind of go going back to our first question of the episode, which is like why are we drawn to reality TV? And I think it's because

reality TV? And I think it's because it's emotion on full volume, honestly blasting out the speakers because the realities of our day-to-days are much more stable, much less like

volatile. And so we like go to these

volatile. And so we like go to these places to see huge heightened emotion or huge heightened personalities, which is kind of what they were doing. They're

like pulling on the threads of you to play it up to be big and loud and splashy for the screen.

It's cathartic to see someone take disgust to 100%. And yeah,

to 100%. And yeah, because everything on camera is is a little muted. So even when we do our

little muted. So even when we do our makeup, we look normal on camera, but in person it's like it's caked on.

Looking like a clown.

A little scary.

More is more.

And you have to do the same with personality too.

Emily always says like you should look in the mirror before we film and you should be a little scared. If it if you're not a little scared, it's not enough.

one of the first times that we were doing like a shoot together cuz M's had a much more experience on camera and so Mads and I were doing our makeup and we're just like M M said when you think

there's ENOUGH MORE MORE and so we're just like more blush Matt just racer stripes on the cheeks.

Yeah. And it looks great on camera. So

um it was kind of crazy to see the other personalities on on the during the audition. They were really big and kind

audition. They were really big and kind of overstimulating to me, but when we reviewed the footage, they were the most interesting to watch.

Wow.

Yeah. Because they were like screaming and like knocking things over.

And in person, I was like, "Calm down.

Chillax."

Mhm.

But what makes for good television is Yeah.

blown out everything.

Wow.

Kind of crazy.

Did you feel used or manipulated at all by the producers when you were on set?

Kind of. You feel like a pawn, a very precious pawn, but a pawn nonetheless.

Or maybe uh the knight. You feel like a knight, like someone that is significant to the game, but you are still being moved around by someone greater than you.

Oo yeah. So they the producers and the creator of the show, they have a goal.

They want to make the most interesting show and they chose you for a reason because they believe that you're interesting as well. It it kind of felt like I was going back to my teacher

being like, "Was that good? Was that

okay? Should I try again?" And so, and they constantly have feedback. They're

like, "Next time, why don't you why don't you like if they're competing for money, why don't you make them go touch the money?

Like, why didn't you do that?" Like, I didn't know I could do that. I didn't

know I had to do that. So, they're like forcing you to be more creative.

That's so crazy because this is all just from an audition. So, I wonder what you would feel if you went on to be on a reality television show. You would feel so much pressure.

Exhausted. I was exhausted afterwards.

And then you also see everyone else performing as well.

Mhm.

And then we all piled back into the car after performing. It becomes a

after performing. It becomes a performance after performing for like eight hours. Everyone's beat. Everyone's

eight hours. Everyone's beat. Everyone's

like, "I don't know if I could do this, man."

man." Everyone who was auditioning was like, "I don't know if I could do this."

Wow.

It's a lot.

Wow.

Everyone felt so discouraged. And there

was someone, we were traveling back to the car on like a golf cart and he was like, "I don't know if I did good enough. Like, I don't know if I'm meant

enough. Like, I don't know if I'm meant for this kind of life." That's what he said. And I'm like, "Obviously, you're

said. And I'm like, "Obviously, you're here cuz they they liked you enough."

But it makes me think of all of the stars on these reality television shows that say, "I want it bad." You know, like they really want it. They really

want to win. They really want the fame.

They really want the title of being the best. And like it hearing what it costs

best. And like it hearing what it costs you like emotionally, the toll that it takes on your psyche. These people

really really want it.

They ignore Yeah.

the exhaustion.

Because the weird thing about reality TV now too, especially for shows that you get cast on to for a season, is that you come out and have a whole new career.

Like you become an influencer. And so

it's must be harder and harder for the producers to also sus out the difference between those that are cloud chasing and like have that hunger and want it bad versus they just want to fall in love genuinely.

I have a question for you. Um

because you are a full-time influencer now and you've always wanted to do this.

Yes.

What if 5 years ago you got scouted for a reality television show and this is what you had to go through but you didn't know it at the time. What how

would you have responded back then? if I

got the opportunity to to Yeah. And you didn't know if you were

to Yeah. And you didn't know if you were going to win, but obviously one of the outcomes if you do win is you're most likely guaranteed a life being an influencer.

People get into this into reality television for different motivations. So

if it's for fame, if it's for money, um obviously the easiest answer would be yes. For me personally, it is about

yes. For me personally, it is about creativity and creating genuine moments.

And I don't think I would want that because it takes away freedom. Like it would it would put me

freedom. Like it would it would put me on the stage that I want, but it would take away my freedom. And so that is a huge trade-off that I don't even I don't know if I'm willing to take unless I'm

like really hurting for cash.

I think it's it's like fame, money, influence, and they're like in this triangle, and you're like, which one do I want more?

And authenticity.

And authenticity. Which first thing to go?

I think it comes with influence. Yeah.

Mhm.

I don't know.

What? So, what's what are you referring to when you say freedom? Freedom to

to say what I want.

Oh, yeah. So if you were to become an

yeah. So if you were to become an influencer out of coming out of a reality TV show, you feel like you would have to be somewhat mute.

Yeah. Because you have to uphold the brand that made you who you are.

Yeah.

And you would also inherit the like box that you were put in from however they painted you from the show too.

Like Disney stars.

Yeah. Yeah. And then it's like a it's a hard climb out of it. So, I think you you either have to choose freedom or or fame essentially. I don't know. It's

fame essentially. I don't know. It's

it's a it's easier or it's not easier, but if you want that freedom, you have to climb from the bottom to the top.

There's no shortcuts you can take.

So, if you're being boosted from this platform to this platform, there's rules you have to follow.

Yeah. It's so interesting because what you're saying from your experience auditioning on a reality TV show is that

40% if not more is contrived. But I

think part of what makes reality TV so enticing is that my hot take is that reality TV is reflective of society's current state.

So whether that's looking at what the cast looks like, how men treat women, how women get to express themselves, what roles people play, how much of an

incentive money is versus love, like reality TV shows where we are even though we may have hopes of society being either farther forward or in a

different in a different place.

It's like a snapshot.

Yes. And it's it's sobering. It's a

sobering snapshot of the reality of human behavior in the context of the fabric of society. What show do you see that most clearly?

There's not a one show that comes to mind, but when I watch them, I do think, hm, this is unsatisfying because it is truly representative of what society

values and sees. So, for example, a very simple example is like a cast of heterosexual relationships on a love show and most of the people are white.

Like 80 90% of the people are white. And

then you have your token black person.

Now, now the producers or now the now the networks are like, "We have five black people. Good go us." You know,

black people. Good go us." You know, like and we have one Asian and two Latinas. Like, come on. Reality is like

Latinas. Like, come on. Reality is like there's there's way more than that, but they're they're not getting the airtime that they deserve, you know, or minorities are not in general. So, um

I've noticed that feeling a lot even when it comes to the relationships. I'm

like this is unsatisfying because like yes, this happens at large and it shouldn't be.

Even in Love is Blind when one person when the doors open and you see that one person is Asian and you want to see the white person's reaction.

Yeah.

And it's kind of shocking because they're always like there's shock.

Mhm. And for a lot of people that are from um that are people of color that are on reality TV shows, I don't know if it's the producers or the the pressures that they feel, but their entire

narrative too is about being a person of color. And that is such a big part of

color. And that is such a big part of like the drama that they show on the show as well of like they're in an interracial relationship like is your family going to accept me or not? or

like I've always grown up like this and it becomes like their whole stereotype and identity on the show is to be that stereotype which I think is also Do you think the producers push that

though?

I think so. Yeah. And it's unsatisfying because those are real dynamics that happen in life, right?

like interracial relationships and those need to be shown on TV but it's like the way in which it's shown is a little unsatisfying sometimes because you know it doesn't have to be that played up or like you know that meeting the family is

going to be a little different than what you're actually seeing on TV you know so because it is pushed these narratives are pushed by the producers is it representative of society or is it

representative of these puppeteers who think this is what makes good television well the Another dynamic that I think is really interesting with reality TV is that the viewer feels like such an

active participant in the drama of the show. So all the commentary online, all

show. So all the commentary online, all the Tik Tok videos, all the analyses of should he have done that or not done that is actually part of the experience of watching reality TV

um not just the show itself but like the conversation around the show. And so

that becomes part of how I think society judges what should and shouldn't have happened or almost like the public public's opinions about what happened on

the show shapes what we all think should and shouldn't be happening. One example

that I always think about is the previous season of Love Island last summer where it felt like a morality play. like there was an established

play. like there was an established order with like Ace and his crew that were defining what shouldn't happen within the villa and everybody else on

the internet also had opinions about is that true, is that not true, should that have happened or not have happened. It's

a little bit like Lord of the Flies. You

throw people together in a room and see and everyone's judging like is that right or wrong? Yeah,

I think I think that's a really good point. So, it's not necessarily just

point. So, it's not necessarily just what the producers are trying to push, but it's also the ecosystem around the show and the participants, the viewers

deciding what is right and what is wrong. And

then Singles Inferno adds the extra layer of the commentators that are reflective of the viewer that then feels like the invitation for the viewer to also agree with that commentator, agree with that commentator. But they're all

casting judgment on should that have happened? Is this a real relationship?

happened? Is this a real relationship?

Are the feelings real or not? Or what is fake? What is not fake? Like there's so

fake? What is not fake? Like there's so much commentary all the time that is part of the participatory experience of reality TV.

Yeah. And I think that what people's opinions are at that time are representative of where society is. So

like if you were to have a reality TV show 50 years ago, like there's women are not going to be acting the way that they're acting today. And people are going to be judging women for like X, Y, and Z. You're not going to see any

and Z. You're not going to see any people of color probably or like very few. And people are going to have

few. And people are going to have comments about when a person of color is visible versus like now the comments are a little a little bit more progressed if you want to say than they would have been 50 years ago. So I don't know. It's

kind of a mixed bag, but part of this discussion is like also representative of what reality TV brings to the people.

It's different from like written narrative form TV shows. The viewers are not casting as much judgment on should that character have done that or not.

They're just like, "Wow, I can't believe that character did that." Versus reality TV is I can't believe that character did that and they shouldn't or shouldn't have been doing that, you know? So,

because it's not a written narrative in perception, um there's more ease, I think, for audiences to have stronger opinions on how the narrative should

have gone um than something that was like written by writers.

It's an it's an invitation to join the discussion.

Yeah.

Versus scripted, it's like this is what it is.

Yeah.

Love it, hate it, this is how it is.

So, that has been our episode on reality TV. We would love to hear what you think

TV. We would love to hear what you think about reality TV. Do you watch it? Do

you like it? Do you hate it? Do you love it? Who of us would you like to see on a

it? Who of us would you like to see on a reality television show? What is missing in the reality TV landscape? Put them

all in the comments. We read everything.

We love when you submit on the form on our website. We love when you comment

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Pursuit out.

Bye. Bye now.