How Stripe Built Their New Website

Today, I am thrilled to welcome Stripe's head of design, Katie Dill, back to the show. Katie and her team recently

show. Katie and her team recently launched a brand new Stripe homepage.

She's going to take us behind the scenes of the new website and talk about how AI is changing her team's design process.

Welcome to another episode of Design Review.

Katie, thank you so much for joining us again.

Well, thank you for having me. It's nice

to be back.

I saw along with everybody else when you launched the new Stripe homepage and I thought it would be amazing to have you on and kind of take us through the old site and uh things that you wanted to

change about it and update cuz I know it's been a few years since you launched that one and then take us through the new one and talk a little bit about the process that you used in order to get to uh where you guys landed with the new one.

I do enjoy a good design crit with you.

So, let's do it.

All right, let's jump into uh the original site. So, how long ago did you

original site. So, how long ago did you launch this one? This one was from 2020.

Okay. So, we're talking six years ago at this point.

Yeah. Kudos to the team. I wasn't there at the time, but I do think that they built something that stood the test of time quite well.

Uh we weren't, you know, oh my gosh, we have to change it. It's been too long.

It's just, you know, it doesn't work anymore. It actually was standing up

anymore. It actually was standing up quite well. And when we endeavored to

quite well. And when we endeavored to change it, it was because the business had just evolved beyond the point of what this story was was being told on this site. And I'll explain that in a

this site. And I'll explain that in a little bit. Of course, we wanted to kind

little bit. Of course, we wanted to kind of freshen it up as a part of our brand that also had been evolving and becoming more sophisticated and reaching, you know, a broader set of users. Uh, but

still it was it was a good site. So, I

can point out a couple of things that we uh aimed to change.

Yeah.

Uh, so one, you know, this evolved over time. We certainly had changed the words

time. We certainly had changed the words on the site and exactly how it was portraying what we do. Um, and then also some of the the product shots that we were including. Um and then of course

were including. Um and then of course our users as we you know continue to evolve and um help more in different categories or larger enterprises or uh growing startups. But then as you go

growing startups. But then as you go down the page we were articulating the number of things that we do and this is actually one of the things that had evolved the most over the last couple of years because our product suite was

evolving. And so for example we started

evolving. And so for example we started with payments being a main part of our business but over time uh payments is just one part of it. We now today serve

you in multi- uh national enterprises in many categories including helping them with subscriptions, helping AI companies with usage based billing, tax revenue

recognition platforms like Shopify and helping them move money for the businesses in their um on their platform. And so these stories were

platform. And so these stories were coming through here, but you were kind of only getting a glimpse of the product offering that Stripe provided. And so

this was probably the biggest thing that we realized that we needed to change. So

we needed to adjust that. And the other piece is that, you know, the page grows quite long. There's a lot of trying to

quite long. There's a lot of trying to be told here. uh we were doing that thing that happens over time where you kind of add on and add on and we're kind

of losing the the narrative uh with the site and so we thought to think about ways that we could uh update that narrative. Now of course you could

narrative. Now of course you could adjust that what was here but we realized that it was also time to refresh the visuals. uh it I don't think that the you know the visuals came out

of fashion but it also just didn't feel like it took the sophistication of how the business itself evolved. Uh and we were seeing it honestly in the way that our teams were kind of rolling out this

design language. There wasn't a lot of

design language. There wasn't a lot of clarity on how do we use this 12 degree bar, how do we use colors and overlays?

Um how do we use our typography? Um the

gradient wave that's at the top was certainly an element but it didn't really scale well. So, we had to create a new design vision for our language and then update the story.

It's interesting because you mentioned that visually I look at this and this looks like a site that could have been launched yesterday. Um, and I think

launched yesterday. Um, and I think that's a testament to how Stripe has always been so far ahead of the game from a design perspective that you could have a site that's 6 years old and obviously you you made updates to it

over the years. This wasn't literally the site that you launched six years ago, right? But um clearly it has stood

ago, right? But um clearly it has stood the test of time which is really impressive and it makes sense that you've got all these different customers now. It seems like the approach that you

now. It seems like the approach that you took with the old one was just keep adding sections that would target different types of users and hopefully people would scroll until they hit the one that's right for them. And it sounds like maybe you've rethought that for the

new site that you launched.

Yeah, I mean like perfect example, you know, AI is very big part of our business. It's both like how we build

business. It's both like how we build what we build and who we build for. like

over 78% of the Forbes AI 50 use Stripe and they are using our products to help them scale really fast and help them monetize in new ways right so usage

based billing so that you can uh make the right moves for your inferences costs and how your users are actually using your product and it's a tile on the website so the story was missing like what we're

actually building wasn't coming clear and so when we realized okay now it's time to update our site I would say there's a couple of things on that front which is one like first principles what are we trying to do here like what is the point of a website anyways I

remember being in a meeting where Patrick asked like well what is the point of a website I think one part of it is it's it's your manifesto whether you explicitly call it that or not

because you're demonstrating who you are what you are doing and why you do it and in some indirect ways right it's just like the nature of the way that you build your site how you present yourself what colors you choose what typography

you choose the details that you choose to care and the ones you don't and then of course how you articulate what you're doing and what you offer. So we set out to make sure that the story was

extremely clear for who we're serving and how we're serving them and what we care about. And so that's where, you

care about. And so that's where, you know, honestly painstaking hours over a year or more is what, you know, ended up going into this. Partly because in some ways we weren't rushing to get something

out like when we're ser when we're building something for our users, it's like, okay, it needs to be out like it needs to be out tomorrow because they're dependent on this. This was like it was for ourselves in a lot of ways. And so

we certainly could take the time to sniff out the right design and, you know, get on that scent. Um, and you know what? There were many weeks and

know what? There were many weeks and months of design exploration where we liked it, but we're like, "No, that's not it." Yeah, we're not ready to, you

not it." Yeah, we're not ready to, you know, wear that shirt for the next six years or whatever it might be.

And so, it's financial infrastructure to grow your revenue as the first one, which is the exact same for a sentence.

So, that has remained consistent and it seems like what you wanted to add here was the extra things here that would catch other people.

Yeah.

That where Strike would actually be the right product for them, too.

Yeah. One of the things that's interesting is I like looking at sites and trying to figure out what is something that only this company could do that nobody else could do. And one of the things that stands out to me is the

GDP counter that you have here. It's not

many companies that could um that could have a live counter of the percentage of the global GDP, not even just US GDP that is running on Stripe. Talk about

the decision to put that right up at the top as well. Well, I would imagine a lot of, you know, people watching and people building websites are thinking about, well, how can we demonstrate the the impact that we're having, the the reason

why you should trust us, the social proof, you know, what users trust us before. Uh, these are important

before. Uh, these are important messages. They they help the, you know,

messages. They they help the, you know, the the potential customer understand like whether or not this is a brand that you could trust and okay, good to know that you've done it for others. As I

expressed earlier, like we're, you know, trying to help everybody from a micro entrepreneur who's going to grow a startup to hopefully great success as well as these large enterprises. It

matters a lot to them whether or not that Stripe is dependable, reliable, trustworthy, and can operate at their scale.

So, we ask ourselves, well, how do we express that? How do we help you see

express that? How do we help you see that we can? Of course, one of the ways is that we tell you about the users that use us, and you can see that scrolling across the bottom. But another way is like you know the actual enormous impact

that we have had the the privilege and the responsibility of serving in that can actually be quantified in the GDP.

Yeah. I love that. And the other key word here too is billionth. You know

like that just signals if you do billions of transactions stripe is right for you.

Yeah. YC companies.

Yeah.

You got this.

Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Okay. Take us

through uh the other sections that you you put underneath that.

Yeah. All right. So this next section is what we call our bento. And so this is probably the big area that's seeking to solve some of the problems I talked about earlier about really expressing

kind of like the scale of the product offering. And so before you saw like

offering. And so before you saw like okay we do issuing we do payments. Uh

but here we're trying to depict a little bit more of the solution set. And so

payments yes we do payments we do online payments we also do terminal. Uh billing

is you know what we were talking about earlier about usage based billing or um you know could be fixed fee subscriptions any number of these types of things are a lot more adjustable and

um customizable to the businesses we're serving. uh we talked a little bit about

serving. uh we talked a little bit about the the role that AI plays in the organizations and so we wanted to make that clear our issuing product stable

coins and then of course the way that we uh provide for platform businesses and marketplaces and so what we're trying to do here is not overwhelm you with too much going on I mean that I know there

is a lot on this page but you know you can see that there's a very little text we're just trying to get the point across to give you enough of a sense of like, okay, this may be for me. And then what we're

really trying to do is show rather than tell. So, hence the imagery. And then

tell. So, hence the imagery. And then

the quick way that you can gain more insight is we do this kind of overlay, this larger modal, so you don't actually have to go off your course. You're not

we're not taking you away from the homepage yet, but we can give you a little bit more of a sense of what this is all about. There's many products layered into this, right? Like, you

know, we on that bento, it's 1, two, three, four, five, six. But that's, you know, I think we have many, many more dozen products on top of that that we

can't express all on one page. That

would just be too much and would overwhelm you. So, we want to give you

overwhelm you. So, we want to give you essentially progressive disclosure as a way of of getting towards the more details behind the products and more things that we offer.

Yeah, that's very cool. I don't know that I've seen this specific design with the bento box and the modals that you can pop up that give more information directly on the page. It's an

interesting smart choice because rather than take people to a dedicated page, you keep them right here. Show them what they want. You give buttons to to jump

they want. You give buttons to to jump to the next section or you can keep scrolling down if this is not the right thing that you're looking for.

Yeah. That that you want it to feel light. You want it to feel easy to kind

light. You want it to feel easy to kind of explore and engage and you're taking them on a journey for sure. You want to help them get to where they're going. Uh

but yeah, I think if we leapt people off the page, you know, when it might be too early for them to have made their decision on what they're actually going after. Uh so this is really just a bit

after. Uh so this is really just a bit more of a browse experience and it's a gives them a bit more of a a chance to explore.

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now for a spot. Okay, back to the video.

Yeah, it's interesting. Another thing

that stands out to me is how much animation you use um in each of these cards. Talk a little about about that

cards. Talk a little about about that and and how you can do it without making it too overwhelming or distracting for people.

Yeah, it's a difficult balance to get. I

mean, this is where prototyping and experimentation like I remember this one where it's like we had too many lines at first and then we had too few lines at first and the the ball was moving too fast. Uh so you do have to really

fast. Uh so you do have to really fine-tune, bring it in. You know, one of the things as kind of pointed out earlier and when when you're building a website like this, you are either, you know, both directly and indirectly

expressing your company's manifesto. So,

one of the things that we are trying to express is the care that we put into the work that we do because if you see the care that goes here, then you you're right to assume that we also put that care behind the scenes in the way that

we move money and the way that we protect uh a company's information.

These are important details to express.

It's also, you know, the idea of making the site feel a bit more alive.

You know, that there's a presence here is something that I think the motion does really well. You were right though.

If you go too far with it, it becomes distracting. It becomes annoying. Nobody

distracting. It becomes annoying. Nobody

really wants to engage with that. And

so, it's just delicate movements and really just like trying to fine-tune it.

Um, and also thinking about the role that when somebody engages with it, that's where, you know, you bring certain things to life and make sure that you're like responding and this gives the feedback to also register like, okay, I can click on this. You

might not have known that otherwise. So,

we try to engage in that way. This is

where we're we're basically these are kind of like the the big important metrics that can help you understand again kind of the scale of what we build. Um, and you know, of course,

build. Um, and you know, of course, there were versions where we could just put the numbers there. Uh but what we intended to do with this is to just add

a little bit of interest. It is loosely communicating the intention of these uh metrics. It's not really a data viz of

metrics. It's not really a data viz of course. Uh but it gives you a sense of

course. Uh but it gives you a sense of like okay here we're talking about global scale. Here we're talking about

global scale. Here we're talking about um uptime and so you kind of get the sense of continuity here. Um but really it's just fun. It's just beautiful. Um,

and then there's, you know, it changes depending on what time of day, but if you want to go ahead and see what it would be like at night, you can come in and check it out yourself.

It feels like we're entering an era now where websites can be fun again.

Yeah, they were fun early on and then it got to a point where every SAS website looked exactly the same. And um, it's really cool to see you focused on things that are just fun for the sake of being fun.

Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm a AI hopeful that the creation of these tools that can help us move so much faster and basically get to like get to good almost

like instantaneously and almost for free. And now great, we can take that

free. And now great, we can take that time to then push it that next level and to create something that is really interesting and playful and, you know, beautiful.

Yeah. I think what's interesting here that's that's maybe worth for anybody watching to pay attention to is that these aren't animations for animation's sake or interactivity for interactivity sake. There's there's an intention and a

sake. There's there's an intention and a purpose behind everything that you're doing and it's connecting to the specific message that you're trying to communicate with each of these numbers and it's easy to look at it and go like oh yeah it's just like a fun kind of thing and it is that but it's not

random.

Yeah. And a lot of thought goes into that I'm sure like talk about some of the different things that you explored or were people even against putting this in thinking well what value does it have

and every inch of the screen has to have um you know directly measurable value.

Yeah. Well also interesting is it's this section that the site didn't launch in December. M

December. M so we we ended up launching in January and uh we were at a stage with this

where like we had something good like we had you know all four animations but they didn't move quite the way you know we thought would feel really smooth and

really intentional and the extra detail of how they transition from one to the next just like felt a little cluji and wasn't quite as smooth as it could

And it was a decision, you know, a group decision that we should wait and we should do it right. We could have, well, let's just only do three or let's just

only do one or maybe you don't make the move. Um, and you know, for sure what we

move. Um, and you know, for sure what we don't want to get in the habit of is just like pushing timelines out to the end of time. But this was a decision

that it was worth it to get it done well and make it actually a kind of joyful experience that demonstrates you know that love and care and the technical ability and you know it was over the

holidays and so pushing it another week was was not going to be you know the end of the world but also a really good thing in the long run about how it feels within the overall composition.

Yeah. Very cool. So this area is um a place where we're we're talking about our users but we created these images so it brings together Stripe the brand and

the the companies that we serve. So each

one of these is custommade uh and it's you know intended to express a bit of the brand that we're highlighting as well as the Stripe brand with the parallelogram. You could look at this

parallelogram. You could look at this and you could be like oh yeah great opportunity to use AI as did we. We're

like great, we're gonna use AI and it's going to be awesome and we're gonna get these done in a, you know, a day. Now,

of course, like the reality is, you know, building with AI is actually also, you know, something that is u it requires the love and care and attention of the makers. And so, there was

definitely a process behind it. But

these are really just meant to bring some interest. And you kind of again, as

some interest. And you kind of again, as you're trying to express through visuals, a lot of people scroll really fast through the website, right? At

least I do. I don't know about you. But

when you're you're trying to get them to like take a beat almost like a song, you know, it's like what are those like key moments of punctuation and where do we want you know folks to slow down and take a note and also when are we trying

to express something like you know trying to communicate uh the type of brand that we work with especially if you're you know not familiar with them.

And now we've moved to a darker background.

Is there something intentional behind that now? Well, this is an area that

that now? Well, this is an area that we're talking about our um integrations in the way that our APIs work. Uh and

certainly there's, you know, a developer language. Uh not everything has to be in

language. Uh not everything has to be in dark mode, but um it is actually something we have done in the previous site as well. And so we wanted to carry that forward.

This is uh the area that we call squeezy boy.

Uh design is definitely more fun when you can give everything a fun name. Uh

but it is a an area where we're we're kind of just showing some of the things that are comingings and goings and uh so this is our Black Friday Cyber Monday uh

city that we had built um our podcast Cheeky Pint. Uh so this will always be changing with different things that come through. Uh but we wanted to once again you know have a little fun

with how we portray these things make it easier and um also inviting to engage with. Um certainly added more challenge

with. Um certainly added more challenge to it. Like so for example how do you

to it. Like so for example how do you get an image that when it's this size is going to make sense as much as it's going to make sense when it's this size.

Uh so this was tricky to to build it right. And so you know quite a bit of

right. And so you know quite a bit of iteration on that but I think the team found a clever way. It's amazing seeing the finished product here and everything is so polished and and put together, but I think it's really easy to miss all the

work and the iteration and the process that goes on behind the scenes there. I

would love for you to take us through show your work on all these different sections and all the iterations that you went through to ultimately end up at this point.

Well, okay, we're starting here on the top where we have this wave. Uh I've

worked at Stripe now for five years and I cannot even tell you how many different variants of a wave or gradient or gradient wave that I have seen and

been a part of. Um I think we are trying to find every possible solution on this project. You know we knew we wanted to

project. You know we knew we wanted to bring a lot of kind of color and joy to the experience and we knew that a a wave or gradient wave like we had before is a

a key way to do that. and we enjoy that part of the brand, but which wave, how to do it, what's going to stand the test of time, what could be on there for six years potentially, uh, and, you know,

give you a, you know, a bit of joy when you visit, but not overdo it. And what's

super cool is that our wonderful team created this tool where we can experiment and get the right waves, the perfect wave.

Exactly. So, you could just like tweak, do I want that much blur? No, not that much. Do I want a more grain? No, not

much. Do I want a more grain? No, not

that much. Let's see. We want to also switch it on the scale. Do how do we want it rotated? How thick do we want?

How much texture do we want? You know,

the reality is is all of those factors matter so much. Like what exactly is the color? Like that's a little like that

color? Like that's a little like that yellow isn't right. Right. That's not

the what we ended up with. Like we want to find just the right color mix, just the right texture, just the right amount of movement. And having a tool like this

of movement. And having a tool like this was essential to make that happen. And

then you know we first get it right and like okay we see how it is here and then becomes the building process like how do we actually build it so it's also performant and is going to you know operate

really smoothly on anybody's computer and and I noticed some buttons here it looks like you can save the state so do you create different variations of these and then kind of test them against each what was the process even of using this tool

yeah before we even got in that tool we were even just trying to get centered on well what is it that we're actually trying to achieve with the wave what are talking about here like well how vibrant do we want to be or do we want like

prefer it muted like some of these were really interesting but is that the right feel for the page or not? Um you know there this is one of our previous waves

from one of our event sites uh which was monochromatic but also really bold or do we want to be a little bit more uh diverse and more rainbow like? And so we looked at each of these kinds of ways of

thinking about it and then you know essentially had discussions about like well is it flat or is it an object with a form and these great discussions help

us tease out uh what we're we're actually trying to do and of course you know Patrick is was heavily involved in the site as well and so we had many discussions with him is like this this wave feel right because when you're you

know creating a new homepage it's almost like yeah you're deciding what you know clothes you're going to wear for the next many years. M it's a big decision.

It's amazing seeing um the literally infinite variations that you could come up with here.

I imagine that makes it harder to just make a final call. What is that process?

Who who decides and and um you know how do you decide like this is the one that we're going with and and move on from this because you could probably spend forever debating.

Oh, it's very very true. Uh usually well for something like this Patrick was definitely a part of the decision-making process and so usually you know with the

team we will look at quite a large range then we will down select to you know a subset of those and say like okay these are the ones that we're comfortable with like we don't want to put in front of Patrick ones that we're like definitely

not comfortable with or wouldn't recommend. Although it's it's always

recommend. Although it's it's always helpful to show kind of like the process and what we did explore. But then we look at the ones that are likely a very good fit and then we'll have a conversation about what you know feels

right for him. And luckily, you know, he's also exceptionally decisive and has very good taste. And so we usually can use that as a conversation of like, okay, this one feels right. But I'll

also admit, I mean, this is one of the blessings and the curse of the design process is that something that could feel great here on or on a board or in isolation, um, all of a sudden feels very different when you actually put it

in place and you feel it. that you feel it with the rest of the typography and the the logos on there and the various other things and also just like sit with it for some time. Uh so we definitely evolved it over time. Something that may

have felt right at one point um starts to feel, you know, just like it it it isn't going to stand the test of time and then we want to change it.

Yeah. So, at what point in the process do you go from looking at a bunch of different variations on this like flat to an object with a form or quiet to turbulent and then actually get it coded

up and working live in the page so that you can get a sense of what it actually feels like live.

I mean, I would say the goal is as quickly as possible to get it into state that would be like the way a user would experience it.

Uh because it is really hard to judge anything in isolation in a way that isn't like the user would be. you're you

that's what you're trying to do is just like put yourself in their shoes and then see what that would feel like.

Sometimes we're just we're not there yet. Like it could take some time to

yet. Like it could take some time to code it up. Uh and so we want to you know start to down select just so we know like should we code you know the these five versions or you know these

five versions. And so we would start

five versions. And so we would start perhaps with something that's more of just like a static visual and just get a sense okay we want to go over here over there. But that's where that tool comes

there. But that's where that tool comes in hand because this allows us to essentially, you know, get many versions at once, right? And so we can play with them together.

Yeah. And one of the other things that you might not get to experience um just playing with it in frames is it it comes behind the text there. And so you have to change the text color and make sure that the text is readable and and not distracting and and it interacts with

all these other elements on the page that are really important, too.

Right.

You talked about a few different uh bento variations.

Oh, yeah.

I'm curious to see some more of those.

Yeah. So, this is the bento where we're trying to communicate a lot of different things that we do.

Uh, and what what's the right way to to communicate this? We looked at a ton of

communicate this? We looked at a ton of different things. And so, what we're

different things. And so, what we're trying to figure out is, you know, if you're what kind of user are you? Are

you a uh micro entrepreneur with a small business or are you a large enterprise?

Are you interested in billing or are you interested in connect these things? Do

we want to show you them all in one screen? this might be an approach so we

screen? this might be an approach so we can get there faster because of course on any website the more you scroll down the less users get there, right? Uh so

what if we just squished it all in?

Well, that's a lot. It's pretty type heavy. We're not doing a whole lot of

heavy. We're not doing a whole lot of showing versus telling.

Uh we looked at uh these kinds of sections. This is a little bit more

sections. This is a little bit more similar to our original site that I showed you where you just kind of like pass through section by section. This

felt like a little too scrolly telling, right? and you're just like kind of you

right? and you're just like kind of you want to get to it and you want to get to it faster and you want to be able to get a a quicker sense of what we offer. Uh

then we have here a essentially an accordion so you could press these things to then open them up and see what we have. Uh this one we actually did

we have. Uh this one we actually did take to user research and unsurprisingly it was not a quick way for people to

really digest a lot at once because it requires effort. you know what even if

requires effort. you know what even if it's not a lot of effort, right? But you

um you want somebody to tap on it or you want them to scroll over it. Uh and you know, otherwise you're you're in trying to introduce something to them like manage a marketplace end to end. Like

you might know what that means, but you might not.

Would you would you be interested enough to click through and most people just don't click tabs?

Yeah, exactly. So that's why, you know, again, this didn't feel right and a more visual one um was definitely a better choice. Uh but there's a lot of

choice. Uh but there's a lot of different variants here in the way that we explored how to communicate this. And

then again, you know, it just we have to remember that when people are coming to this site, they're in a more of a lean back mode. They're in more of a browse

back mode. They're in more of a browse mode. So the idea that you're going to

mode. So the idea that you're going to put your most important messages a click away, it's going to be tough. And so

that's where the bento kind of won at the end of the day because it was just so much more visual um and I would say kinder to the users because it meant that they could be in that lean back position.

Talk a little bit about the process and maybe how you used AI in building this.

Well, so yeah, let's start with the images that but there's other parts of the process there. But these were certainly a type of thing that lend themselves to AI. I think AI is really

good at these pictures that seem, you know, super real. Uh, and so this is kind of what we're going for. Now, it

seems like it would be pretty simple to ask a, you know, an AI like, you know, free pick or whatever of like, you know, give me a parallelogram inside this thing. But the reality is, you know, the

thing. But the reality is, you know, the nuance of the details really mattered to us. Like, you couldn't just put uh

us. Like, you couldn't just put uh something that sort of got there. Uh, it

had to feel like it was, you know, at the same level of love and care as these other things. What was really kind of

other things. What was really kind of funny was the process here. Uh because

you know, one wouldn't have thought that bubbles would have taken so much of our attention, but they sure did. Uh so here was a version that we had for a different user that is uh not depicted

on the site just right now. Um and you can kind of see like, okay, yeah, it's an ice cube and the bubbles and you know, generally what do you think? Looks

looks okay.

Yeah, looks real.

Yeah, ship it.

Well, this is the team's uh thoughts on the matter. And so each one of these

the matter. And so each one of these things is actually a critique of, you know, where it just doesn't feel quite real right?

The example um from uh urban um or URBN is the um you know, how well does this all feel like the right urban uh layout

now gets a lot of it right, but when you take a double look, um her arm isn't quite right. He doesn't quite have a

quite right. He doesn't quite have a hand. Um you know, that shadow isn't

hand. Um you know, that shadow isn't exactly how it would be. uh and so the the detail in each of these little nuances like each pixel basically needs

the same uh amount of attention. So I

think what AI is helping us do is it's helping us speed up our process and certainly helping us explore more. We

can look at you know 20 ideas in the time it normally would have taken to look at two. However, the it doesn't replace craft. It doesn't replace taste.

replace craft. It doesn't replace taste.

it doesn't replace, you know, the attention to detail to ensure that you're getting each of those things right. Um, we're really excited about

right. Um, we're really excited about how it's sped up prototyping and sped up, you know, experimentation. So, it's

like, how should these accordionss move?

Should it replace this or should it push that? Uh, we can mock that up really

that? Uh, we can mock that up really fast and then saves engineers countless time hours and and designers as well as they're exploring different varieties.

It's also really great for user testing.

Um, if we want to be able to change all the words in here, uh, so that it feels one way for one user that we're talking to versus another, we can do that really easily with AI prototyping. I would say

even during that time period, you know, what we were exploring is, you know, feels oldfashioned a year ago versus uh, how we explore today.

How about uh, like the role of designers? You know, it's it seems like

designers? You know, it's it seems like it's not just um, pushing pixels in frames in Figma.

Yeah. talk about what the designers on your team are doing and and the role that they played in uh in actually building this what designers at Stripe endeavor to do or to create things that feel like they

push the status quo forward. That kind

of all harks back right to the idea of like what what is the global progress that we can provide and we want to do that via design as well. We want to create things that are exceedingly easy

to use that are also really really powerful and that can help people solve problems or help them build their business or help them accomplish what they're trying to do but do so in a way that actually just brings a little joy

to the day too. You know, because frankly that's part of progress as well is that like a beautiful world is definitely a better world. I want to live in that one. And so designers are trying to create things that are going

to be really intentional for our users but also do so that's you know in a creative and thoughtful and differentiated way and I would say the tools that we're using are allowing for

that now hopefully better and faster you know as we talked about earlier is that you know I think AI can you know give us opportunity to keep the base like to raise the floor essentially to create

baseline products maybe that like the seven out of 10 really quickly, really easily. But then what do you do with

easily. But then what do you do with that extra found time? Do you just like ship that and just like, you know, ship more sevens out of tens? Like, boy, I hope not. Uh, what instead we want to do

hope not. Uh, what instead we want to do is, you know, get the things that are just like, okay, that's a very typical modal to, you know, accept somebody's email address to sign them up. Like

maybe you don't need to reinvent the wheel there. Like as long as that is

wheel there. Like as long as that is like a really good version of that, then we're good. But now, can we spend the

we're good. But now, can we spend the time to think about new paradigms of interaction? Like for example, people

interaction? Like for example, people are using agents to build their businesses now. Um they're using agents

businesses now. Um they're using agents to basically do everything under the sun. So what is your agent experience?

sun. So what is your agent experience?

How good is that? What is the the users's experience going to be like when they are traversing, you know, the internet or their tools in that way? And

so that's where I would say designers are putting more time now is thinking about those new paradigms of interaction and trying to think about like what does great experience or user experience or

agent experience look like for tomorrow.

We have incredible new tools that are available for everybody. And one of the trends obviously that that we've been seeing a lot of is everybody within a company now having the ability to ship

code and improve products and update the website and you know the core product that customers are using which I think is really powerful and one of the questions that I think that that comes out of that

um especially from a design perspective is how do you keep it so there's this cohesive design language and it stays to the bar that you is so important to you and

without being directly in the flow of how new code gets written and shipped and going live on the site.

Yeah, I really interested to see and be a part of the evolution of design systems in this way because design systems have always been a way to help a

team scale. So as a organization grows

team scale. So as a organization grows and you can no longer just know what the right thing is because you know there's 10 of you seated around the table and you're all just talking about every

single thing you do. when you scale like it helps the organization make decisions together and ensure that there's con coherency in the user's experience with

AI tools I think that we're going to see a whole new wave where these systems are you know kind of managed by the AI tools

and that can help us scale things a lot more quickly and so for example as I mentioned I you know drew a sketch of what I wanted to see built and then I

put that in the AI tool and then it uses the components from our design system to piece that together for me and get a like the the rough version. Then I want to, you know, push it here and there and actually, you know what, that component

isn't really fit to purpose for what I'm trying to do here. So this is where we're going to need to push from that and so then can the AI tool help me actually expand the design system and

actually help to grow it for the use cases that we need. And so I think there's a lot that is going to be facilitated in terms of bringing more high quality things at that like

baseline. But honestly, I mean, this is

baseline. But honestly, I mean, this is what people have to choose to do because sometimes it's so easy when you put it in the, you know, the AI tool and it spits back a thing and you're like, "Oh, that that was fast and that was easy and

that's pretty good." And you will like you can feel it in yourself just being like, "Yeah, I guess that's enough." But

like the reality is like don't be wooed by you know just how easy that was to achieve but instead ask yourself like but is this really is this really great?

Is this like have I really hit the mark?

Is this really going to achieve the goal? is really going to feel like it's

goal? is really going to feel like it's wellcraftrafted and put, you know, intentionality behind it. And then, you know, sometimes that takes, you know, another rev and another turn. And, you

know, the the way that, you know, our tools today can allow you to kind of go back and like, no, tweak this little bit and tweak that little bit. Uh, and

essentially the merging of design and edge tools and one allows you a lot more ability to kind of customize that. So,

you don't need to accept slop and you shouldn't accept slop. you should you know hunt for fight for the right solution.

What are some more principles like that that you try to instill in your team? I

mean, I think I think a part of it is, you know, the reality is, and I think we may have even talked about this last time we talked, like the gravitational pull is to mediocrity. Like, it is just

so easy to accept good enough.

And I think it really really takes intentionality and you really have to think about like what is the cost of accepting good enough. And I think in that one decision, you're just like, well, it's just fine. Like it's just

like ship it like it, you know, it achieves it. like you know I really you

achieves it. like you know I really you know we we've got too much to do and you know is it like that data viz thing we were talking about before like it's it's pretty good you know we got like wouldn't it be great to like get the team on something else and you you like

weigh all these other costs and you think about it and you end up making a decision to go for good enough but think about if you made that good enough decision every day all day every

day and then think about how many companies do that right like how many companies really stand out to us as like exquisite and exceptional and that like really hold that bar up that it reminds

you of just like how hard it is to fight that fight of like well I if I let this slide you know what else am I going to let slide and what is that like composite going to be and then I think a

lot of people make decisions based on well you know the team put so much effort in like I'm going to you know upset the team if I don't go forward it's like well how happy is the team going to be if the product is just meh

fight the gravitational pull to mediocrity and do not leave well enough alone Mhm.

And really look for the thing that's going to make a difference. I think the other thing that we talk a lot about internally and I think is really important for folks to consider when

they're building products and experiences is what is the user going to experience at the end of the day. You

know, we get a little too caught up in our own world. We're too comfortable with it. And so what I would always say

with it. And so what I would always say is just like realize it the way a user would. prototyping, not presenting.

would. prototyping, not presenting.

Don't try to communicate to, you know, the stakeholder of like, well, this is why we did this and this is, you know, the trade-off that we fought against and this and that. It's just like if you're there to talk about whether or not this

is the right solution or not, then you should be asking of like, well, how is this going to feel at the end of the day for the person that's going to be experiencing this? And, you know, does

experiencing this? And, you know, does that feel good? Without all of that knowledge, do I think that part is is the right one? um that makes a big big

difference. Um I would also say when

difference. Um I would also say when we're exploring different products and like what are you know what is actually shipworthy or not you think about like

what the trade-offs are of like is this going to negatively impact somebody's day? Is this going to be something that

day? Is this going to be something that erodess trust if you don't get this right? Is this going to make it to the

right? Is this going to make it to the front page of the news? Like what what are the tradeoffs when you're making a decision? And I guess like a lot of the

decision? And I guess like a lot of the things that I'm talking about here are the things that sound like I'm looking for perfection. And I think that's also

for perfection. And I think that's also a dangerous pursuit because of course like your product is only as good as what's actually out there, what's shipped. It's not what we've been

shipped. It's not what we've been thinking about. It's not what we've been

thinking about. It's not what we've been talking about. It's not our intention

talking about. It's not our intention and what we're pursuing. It's what's

actually available to the people that are you're you're serving.

And I think progress is probably more important than perfection in that case.

And a lot of times it's not out there until you actually can learn and understand whether or not it's effective, especially with AI tools and the way that you know you you really

don't know how people are going to use it and how it's going to respond and how they're going to evolve with it until you can bring it actually to market. And

so I think you have to have a kind of a rubric in place about what are, you know, the essential pieces to a successful product. I wouldn't call it

successful product. I wouldn't call it an MVP. It's probably like an MVQP, like

an MVP. It's probably like an MVQP, like a minimum viable quality product. Uh

because again, you don't want to lose trust by experimenting with something out in the world. Uh but you certainly want to learn from their experiences.

It feels like something that's becoming even more important these days um with all the advancements in AI is QA.

Yeah.

And testing. And you know, you talk about having the voice of the user and the perspective of the user in your head as you're designing. Um, and part of what you do at Stripe, which you told us about last time, is uh, walking the store.

Oh, yeah.

And, um, and you actually go in and you test all of the products yourselves and you do that as part of a company culture and a requirement that everybody does.

Everyone is expected to do that. Um,

which I think is really important. How

has that changed more recently? Um,

either within Stripe or certainly with all the changes with AI that have been happening. Walking the store is such an

happening. Walking the store is such an important part of building products and experiences because again it like at the end of the day you're trying to understand what the user is going through. And when you're building

through. And when you're building something, it's so easy to be like, "Oh yeah, we're in our product. We're in it all day. I'm thinking about my product

all day. I'm thinking about my product all day." But what you're thinking about

all day." But what you're thinking about is, you know, that next feature that you launch and it's really easy to lose sight of what's actually out there. It's

kind of funny like how you can create something. you're like, "Oh, when I

something. you're like, "Oh, when I shipped it, we did all these bug bashes and it was great." But then you use it and maybe you use it a month later, maybe you use it, you know, two, six months later, and it's evolved. It's

changed. And the reason why is because probably somebody else shipped something and somebody else shipped something and now it's like, you know, it's in your home when you've updated the dining room, but none of the other rooms and

all of a sudden the light switches don't match and the colors are off and every other room now looks bad. You have to think about how that composite works together. And you know for Stripe for

together. And you know for Stripe for example, we have a number of different business areas, right? We have our money movement business, we have our revenue business, we have our payments business.

And these organizations need to focus and they need to stay true to their mission and what they're trying to get done. But if they don't think about how

done. But if they don't think about how their product intersects with each others and how a user might go from, well, I use subscriptions and I use

payments and I use tax. how are these things all going to work together? Then

they're really missing the user experience. And so walking the store

experience. And so walking the store helps people see kind of the forest through the trees and see how all these things connect.

And yes, we do basically it's like a part of the culture that everybody does this. Uh we do have a program that we

this. Uh we do have a program that we talked about last time, essential journeys where we have a a subset of these journeys um kind of like on a scoreboard and like are they you know

red, yellow, green, how good are they?

But everybody should be exploring the store different parts imagining themselves as different types of users experiencing different sides of it and trying to find the the dead ends. We

also do this every Friday where the founders do it in front of the whole company where they're walking the store.

One to just instill how important this is and kind of raise awareness and also to help people think about how do you see not everybody has the same attention to different types of details. And so I

might see something that you might not because of my discipline or my disposition or you know that the user that I talked to earlier that week and so the thing that I'm interested in. And

so when we do these things together, we see the value that different points of view bring. So I really love to walk the

view bring. So I really love to walk the store with like an engineer in the room and a product leader in a room and a data science in the room because we're all looking at it very differently and we're all going to point out different things and that is what like gets us

closer to really actually understanding what a user might feel.

Well Katie, this has been incredible.

Thank you so much for coming and um I feel like it's so rare to get an honest peak behind the scenes and showing the process and all the steps that you had along the way. So, uh, really appreciate you sharing that with us.

It was a lot of fun. I'm always happy to talk about behind the scenes. I think

the blood, sweat, and tears and the effort that goes into it is something that's a part of the work, but is often not talked about. I love hearing it from other designers, and I'm always happy to talk about it myself. Thanks for having me on.

Awesome. That does it for another design review. Thank you for joining us, and

review. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you on the next episode.