How to Avoid Burnout with Harvard-Trained Burnout Coach [Emily Terrani | the inner creator E5]

hey we are live hello everybody today we're going to talk about how to avoid burnout as a creative entrepreneur perfectionism and how to be more productive as a Creator by interviewing

Emily tehrani a Harvard trained burnout coach welcome to the inner creator with Peter Sue it's a podcast dedicated to helping creators Master the art and Business of Being a Creator and also

mastering your internal mindset I'm your host Peter Sue I'm a former investment banker at Goldman Sachs turn singer-songwriter turned content creator here in San Francisco and today we have

a very special guest Emily tarani and quick background for you all of you listening out there Emily is a Harvard trained performance coach who researched burnout at Harvard and she coaches

Executives on how to avoid burnout how to get out of it and how to be more productive and make the Maximum Impact in their work and in their lives

she also makes a lot of tick tocks and Instagram content so she has a lot of empathy for creators too and I met her through Alessa who I interviewed on the

show before and they were classmates at Harvard while studying psychology so I'm super stoked to have you on the show today Emily I've so many questions about

burnout and uh productivity so welcome to the show how are you doing great thanks for having me I'm really excited to get into it with you awesome awesome well kick off quick

quick kickoff question is what is your favorite label or your most used label for different emotions I would say personally I use anxious a

lot just because I do myself experience a lot of anxiety um which is one of the reasons why that is a huge focus of my work I want to help other people that are going through it

got it got it and do you have a favorite tick tocker YouTube channel you follow so this might seem a little off topic but I swear it is

um I do have one that's directly related to psychology the brain code she's more on Instagram but specifically YouTube I'm a new mom and for any new mom out there you probably already know there's

a YouTube channel called songs for Littles and a woman Miss Rachel and she is a godsend it helps me be productive because I can have her essentially

babysit my baby while I can get other things done and just you know that we're talking about being a Creator in creativity and she was originally a high school

um or Middle School music teacher and turned her her work into this huge YouTube channel with her husband who does a lot of stuff on Broadway and so really taking something that is a

typical nine-to-five job at making it into something that's really creative and can impact so many I think it's just awesome so it probably wasn't what you're expecting me to say but that

is my current favorite YouTube channel I already got one hot productivity tip for anyone that's got kids out there the virtual babysitter well um quick shout out to the audience before we

really kick things off uh shout out to live joyfully design what is up all right so so Emily like uh just to start at the beginning can you tell us in the

audience out there just where where did you grow up and did yeah did you have any childhood dreams uh back at that at that age

yeah so I originally from Long Island it's currently where I reside um about 40 minutes to an hour outside of the city and it's ironic I never really

noticed that a lot of my interests when I was younger really tie into what I'm doing today um I at one point wanted to be a doctor and a ballerina and all of those

aspirations that a lot of kids have but from it was either middle school or high school I was part of a peer mentoring program and never at that time did I think that that would actually turn into my career but one thing led to another

in my series of decisions for different degrees ultimately led me into coaching um I've just always had an inherent passion for helping others and naturally have been the person that people would

lean into and that program actually taught me to not give advice which is the key thing of coaching so it was a mentoring program but I didn't realize I was doing coaching even as a child

essentially I love that so so to be a helpful coach try not to give advice I really love that I searched burnout at Harvard while

while studying psychology getting your Master's in psychology there can you just tell the audience just walk us through how did you get into that burnout research

yeah so part of the program is very or was very focused on research and very early in the program one of the courses was prepping us on how to do proper

research methods and in that one of the essays I had to write um was on a research problem and at that time one of my best friends was working as an ICU nurse and she came to me

knowing that I had a previous background in health care and um also was in the mental health and psychology space and she came to me and

said I have no resources when I have a patient died I know you're like perfectly fitted for this I know you're in school I don't know what you can do and that very brief conversation turned

into the work that I set out to do so that informed that single essay and then ultimately my research thesis project that I did I wanted to really look into the nurse population I ended up doing an

emergency room nurses but I specifically looked at what is the impact and the importance of the individual nurse and their coping skills

versus what resources the organization gives them so what is the impact of both informal and professional social support and the role of the organization that a

nurse is part of and that's really how I got there whoa so studying so setting the uh nurses in the ICU

um super super stressful environment and I think for a lot of listeners out there that are creative that are entrepreneurs working professionals they I think it might not it might be a different it

might be it might come in different ways but can you can you walk us through just what is the difference between burnout Stress and Anxiety

yeah of course and a lot of times especially when we'll talk today I'll use a lot of these words interchangeably just because we're not always necessarily talking about the clinical

definition and day-to-day life and we all experience levels of stress anxiety at moments burnout and then of course a lot of us do actually have clinical burnout or at least they're on the scale

of it but stress essentially is is an external element so there's something in your environment that's triggering a stress

response and then anxiety is usually the reaction it's more internal and a huge piece of this is that stress usually has a beginning a middle and an end whereas

anxiety might persist even if the stressor that was originally there is no longer present so that's why when you say that you're feeling anxious it's because

you have all of these internal worries um you're feeling very tense things like that burnout is related to both of them it's specifically prolonged stress so

you're chronically experiencing stress over a long period of time and it's not being relieved and this might be perceived um or actual but it's really the

perception that you don't have enough resources to come back the demands that you have um that really leads to being burnt out [Music]

well so we have actually a lot of audience questions and Azul kind of related to that he's talking about coming back up to speed after taking time to recover from burnout

what are healthy strategies to and guardrails to to establish to postpone the next bout of burnout

that's a great question and the first thing is being aware that you experience burnout or a high level of stress and then to go a step further and try

and recognize the causes so if you understand what got you there to begin with that sets you up for being able to navigate moving forward to try and avoid

what got you there in the first place and I really like the keyword that you said in there which is healthy coping mechanisms because there's a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and there

are a lot of different types of coping mechanisms there's some where you're directly solving the problem others that are focused on the emotion or um trying to positively reappraise or

rethink the stress that you're experiencing and then of course there's some people who go into avoidant or distracting options

like cigarettes um alcohol you name it you know I think we've all are well aware of ways that aren't actually helpful that might just be a Band-Aid um to get you through that current

moment wait so binging um Terrace house for two seasons in a week is that that's maladaptive you know like

like probably what we'll get into later is a big piece of being burnt out is incorporating time where you're recharging so if and a lot of times people put a lot of burden on themselves

if they're like oh I'm binge watching a show I'm not doing anything but if that's actually helping you to really experience joy and pleasure and then you're able to jump back in and do your

work after then not necessarily so it depends on the context all right well Harvard train coach that I could why not watch Netflix now yeah I get it I get it so it really depends on

what you need at the time and and so related to that Jesse asks uh there's a lot of talk about avoiding burnout but what do you do when you're in Burnout uh from from Jessie's experience when I

burn out I get guilty about feeling burnt out and then I feel even worse so how do you recover it from it in a healthy but efficient way and kind of relates to that Britain's also in the audience asking I have burnout right now

and it feels so hopeless so yeah any any advice on how to recover from burnout and regain a little bit more hope after being in the you know pretty intense situation

yeah and my heart goes out to everyone that's experiencing now I think the biggest thing is everything comes and goes in waves so ever it's temporary what you're going through now but you do

have an active role in getting yourself out of it um self-compassion is really helpful I heard the word guilt in there our society tends to have

um a word we use a lot is weaponizing stress and burnout and resilience so a lot of times it will be used against us and then we have these feelings of I shouldn't be feeling this way I should

be able to produce or accomplish or do the things that whatever is on your agenda without feeling stressed out take

a look at what are the core functions maybe even take a step back at what are your goals and how is what you're doing aligned to those goals and values and what's misaligned because a lot of times

burnout comes from the misalignment taking a look at where you're finding joy and where you can find some pleasure in day to day and it doesn't have to be

it emphasize this a lot in a lot of my content it doesn't mean taking hours out of your day a week a month to do something pleasurable it can be as simple as in between meetings taking

five minutes for yourself to just get out of your chair or take 10 seconds to take some deep breaths things like that so the self-compassion and really being

understanding and going in with a curious mind how did I get here what are different ways that I can think about this how have I not thought about it

before can help you get from where you are now to a place that's a little less burnt out um that too A lot of times we want the end goal even with burnout of I want to

be completely not burnt out but it's easier to think about how do I get to a place where I'm like one percent less burnt out and from there you can gradually work yourself down to a more

calm and relaxed state super helpful so if I'm hearing that it's burnout chronics it's chronic stress it's not relieved and you feel like you

either have to do more than you can handle or you don't have the resources to handle it and you're saying some good tactics are self-compassion

making incremental progress even if it's one percent better um I guess kind of breaking that apart uh how

how much do you think if someone's feeling burnt out uh should they reduce the amount of

um perceived like or bird like the the risk uh reduce the workload versus getting more resources to handle the work that I would say is situational the

research shows that your own personal coping skills are the thing that's most correlated with how you manage burnout your reduction of birth now and

prevention of burnout but like right up there is social support so you can reach out for social support to get more resources um and the tools and skills you need to

be able to cope with the current pressures and demands you have or it might the situation might render that you really have too much on your plane and you just simply can't handle it because when I'm speaking about

resources it can be physical objects it can also be your personality traits it can be your energy levels so it depends on what resources your you feel depleted of and again it can be also a threat it

doesn't have to be that you actually don't have resources like if I know I'm going to just branch in the nurse situation but this can apply to any situation a lot of times nurses get burnt out because of the Staffing

situation so maybe they're not under staff now but if they're hearing when that layoffs are coming that might trigger a burnout to start because they are perceiving that there might be a threat coming their way

so that can apply in different situations especially in the Creator world yeah yeah and especially right now I think with creators it's there's always like infinite amounts of

uncertainty um same with being an entrepreneur and also just right now if someone's out there is like a working professional especially like I'm in San Francisco and

in Tech all there's so many layoffs like Facebook Google all these companies um I guess for the especially for people

that are uh like what you just mentioned they there's like a perceived risk of being laid off like how do you manage that kind of chronic something looming over your head

um like I guess a perceived threat that that's not going to go away anytime soon yeah a lot of it is thinking about what you have control over and controlling

your thoughts so it's on reframing and reappraisal so or how you appraise a situation so your thoughts are really really powerful and how you're assessing

the situation uh taking a look can you is do you have any form of um autonomy or agency in the situation if you're hearing about the layup coming

does it mean that does it trigger perfectionism or an overworking where you're like I can't be the one who is let me step it up and then that ultimately turns into your burnout um even if you do end up not getting

laid off what was the benefit what was the cost of your response to whatever the threat is um so what's what's in your focus on what's in your control and for the layoffs

think about is it worth yeah is it worth going into overdrive um interesting and like can you tie it back to a little bit on on tell us a little bit about the takeaways you had

from your research with the nurses because I remember when we talked about it it was like it was very enlightening for me yeah so um I ended up doing the research during the pandemic which definitely had

influence over some of the results but I found um which I alluded to a little bit a few moments ago the biggest Factor was that was the nurse's own personal coping

mechanism so huge emphasis on taking care of yourself and building your resilience and your skills and knowing um essentially having like a handy tool set that you can tap into when you're

feeling stressed out or anxious so that you can prevent burnout before it comes through the other really striking uh results I found was that social support

was key that part's not surprising what was the most interesting I should say is that it was social support from the nurses direct supervisor so I looked at

family members I looked at the organization I looked at a few different factors but what that told me was it really matters how much the person that

you're seeking social support can actually do something for your situation so it's great if you are really stressed out and you go home to your friend or your spouse or a parent whoever and you

can vent to them there's value in that it definitely helped but the most helpful was going to a supervisor and this part I'm extrapolating but I

imagine that if they are feeling or leaning towards being burnt out it's because again they don't have enough resources so they let their supervisor

know and their Supervisor has direct influence over those resources that ultimately are contributing to their stress which turns to burn out and then the final piece was

um the organizational piece which was really what I was looking at I looked at if an organization offered counseling services and if the nurses use them and

I found that it wasn't so much if the nurses used them but if the organization offered them and what future research will need to look into is

do those findings show that the organizations that offer the resources to nurses are healthier just in general that probably gives light that they probably are tuned into mental health

and wellness and taking care of their people more than organizations that don't offer it at all so it's probably not at least from my study directly the organizational professional support

itself but more the organized organizational culture got it so so if I heard you it's it's the tools for the nurses from your findings were social support uh

especially with their supervisor that was a huge lever in reducing the the workload and stress and then uh

uh okay cool very cool very cool uh and is there for creators well you well you just talked about how the supervisor has so much influence on

they're the ones that can reduce your workload or your stress um how can a creator uh go to that supervisor if if a lot of

times they're solopreneur or they're running a small team and they're the supervisor because that's where the self-compassion and self-awareness that I was talking about is really challenging because a

lot of times your goals might be in Conflict right so you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself you have goals there's no one really else to hold you accountable so a lot of times

a lot of creators are perfectionists and perfectionists do tend to have more burnout um because you're overworking again all of the great qualities that lead you to

be so successful you're driven You're motivated you can accomplish a lot also results in you um being really high stressed and ultimately having burnout so it's really

evaluating your time making sure that you are incorporating the self-care elements and I know we talked before when we were catching up that I find that a lot of times my high Achievers

and Executives who are type A personalities and um they are really high producers High Achievers self-care is this really

stigmatized word so I prefer to use recharging rejuvenating or frame it in a way where it's for the benefit of ultimately being productive and Performing well so

sometimes I with clients tell them put it in your to-do list like it's a to-do item that you have to incorporate it and that works well for them which is a little counter-intuitive but that's how

it might work so you really need to be in tune with yourself and self-aware and again look at the qualities and the traits in your work style life and the

elements you're doing and assess is this helping me is it at a judgment to me is it contributing to My overall creative goals

is it personally interfering so there's a lot of different elements so you have to Be Your Own Boss and your own Advocate at the same time got it so a lot of self-awareness

um even more so if you're a solopreneur um a lot of self-compassion and then and then even scheduling in the I like the word you used with when you were in the interview with the lessons uh talking

about replenishing I was like oh yeah I need to replenish and uh well this is something we chatted about a

little uh I know I I do this a lot and I'm sure a lot of listeners do a lot of creative entrepreneurs um what any advice if if we're habitually

biting off more than we can chew yeah it's really great to look at the time that you have um so really pacing yourself there's a

really great book on burnout called the burnout fix by uh jacinta Jimenez and so I recommend if people have the time to check out that book she has a model called pulse and one of the things in

there is um you're pacing yourself so you're looking at all of your objectives you're looking at the time that you have and then you're also evaluating like how

much joy you're getting out of it how much is it contributing to the overall goal um you're also looking at how you're thinking about it so

with almost everything it's perspective and your mindset so if you're biting off too much why why are you not managing how much resources you have where is the

external and internal pressure coming from like why are you constantly getting yourself into that situation and what could you do differently um and then there's a few other steps

but I think those are really key parts for making sure that you are being as productive as you can because the key is productivity if you have too much you

actually aren't going to be able to get as much done as you want there's a peak area of stress if you don't have enough motivation or time pressure or whatever type of pressure you're likely not going

to do anything with urgency but if you get into the area where you have too much stress sometimes it can make you freeze it can prevent you from being able to think clearly to problem solve

it can impact your mood which is key because there's actually reach research that shows being in a positive mindset helps to broaden your perspective so you

can actually problem solve better you can get more Curious so you can actually be more productive and that's really really helpful for people and I'm guilty of this

um where you think that I have to be stressed out to get something done it's actually the opposite and a lot of times it can be detrimental so a little stress

fine too much it's not good so a little little bit of I've heard Tim Ferris talk about you stress and I'm like okay I'm leaving okay this is you stress this is good there's like a fire

on my butt to like post the video uh but then this is also bad stress when I can't get out of bed to do something okay um

yeah and so so audience question uh uh do you have any tips on how we can navigate a bad supervisor and changing manager um and changing your manager isn't an

option yeah I actually was just reading um about imposter syndrome and toxic leadership and toxic workplaces so this is interesting it's great that you're

first realizing that the leader is the problem because a lot of times we internalize it and we're like what am I doing wrong um so

it's very key to figure out what traits you have and what are your strengths and how can you use those strengths to have different conversations with that particular

leader how can you work around their leadership style and if changing managers isn't an option you might want to change your

entire work situation as well but if that's not an option really tap into your strengths that's what coaching is it's looking at what can you do that you already have that you're capable of

doing to have conversations with them um I know that we had talked about it's hard to have conversations with leaders in general about being burnt out but being vulnerable and honest while also

not over sharing because they're not your therapist can be helpful um but you have to be aware of what that person can handle and a lot of times we

have conversations where we're trying to get our message across but so was the other person so when you're framing things try and think about how are they going to receive the information

especially when you already know that they're going to be challenging so how can that particular person receive the information and help you in the way that

they're capable of even if they have some um flaws I forget if it was my coach or therapist but uh someone told me that uh drawing

boundaries is a way of showing people how to love you and I was like I was like oh man I need to show people how to love me better so if there's if you're working with a manager

can you walk us through what that conversation like what's what's a healthy way to um how to even have that conversation where you want to let them know

hey I'm having a hard time um the workload is like more I more than I can handle with the current resources I have like how do you how do you talk to your manager without over sharing

um and not turning them into your therapist and also not having them think that you're not doing a good job yeah so framing everything

so that it relates to the work you're doing is probably the first step a lot of times there's research behind this too that people no matter what

setting it is do respect and appreciate vulnerability and honesty and it actually makes people like you more which is very counter-intuitive a lot of times we think that if we disclose too

much and are vulnerable that they're going to be like oh my God who are like I need to run away so again within a professional setting disclosing information and being honest is helpful

you can frame it and you can point out your strengths and all of the ways that you're contributing because likely if you are burning out it is because you're over extending yourself so first start out and point out all the ways that you

are helping the goal on the mission whatever it is that you're doing with your team with your leader and then point out the ways in which the things that or the resources you don't have the things that are burning you out are

inhibiting you from doing an even better job and let them know what impacts that they're having on you personally and let them know in a polite kind way again

that they can receive where you're not you won't you want to frame it where you're not making them defensive essentially and you're showing that this is for the benefit of them and the team

and the greater good of the organization or whatever your work situation is um and trying to not necessarily not be um you want to definitely talk about

emotions but not too much because that's where the therapy uncomfortableness might come into play got it so breaking down in front of your your boss is not a good idea

not necessarily really no I it's it's it's I I feel like it's um it's something that happens in these extreme situations that's super helpful advice and before that's probably

helpful to try and do it before you get to the point of breaking down that's probably key is you want to get into a habit and get comfortable with letting your supervisors your teammates the

people around you know what you need before you're at a critical point so I just wanted to jump in there because that's really really essential for not getting burnt out because we're all

going to experience Stress and Anxiety at some point and if you're recognizing this is going on a little too long or too often let them know and have those

conversations before it gets extreme um and kind of and going off of that um Nilesh asks how are the how do you recognize like what are the signs of

when you're starting to get burnt out great question there's a lot of science I will point out one of the original definitions um of burnout is one of the most common

ways that we measure it from a clinical point of view so the three elements are emotional exhaustion depersonalization so you tend to have negative attitudes um you're more you

have cynicism and diminished personal accomplishment so you're um again more negative about your work your effort your skills things like that so if

you're noticing those that's a big sign but it also could be your more irritable um burnout impacts every aspect it impacts your emotions your physical

health your ability to think your relationship so there's a lot of different signs which makes it sometimes hard to identify because it can be

confused with other symptoms we're going through but usually being really tired a little bit removed from your work more negative about your work or yourself or

really really big ways of noticing God so for so if it's emotional exhaustion depersonalization decreased accomplish decreased accomplishment was

the third one yeah okay so if a creator we're creating weak like videos on a schedule usually it's like once a week um and then it's just you kind of make a video every week for

like 10 years straight without taking breaks and I feel like people also if if things go well you go from having like 22

subscribers to like 100 to a thousand to ten thousand to a hundred thousand to a million like and then you get all these and the comments like I've I had I got lucky enough to have some videos on Tick Tock get like you know 100 000 views and

I had maybe like 10 I don't know like a thousand or a thousand-ish 10 000 comments or like a lot of comments wow and I yeah and then I basically

kind of went into this I was excited but also I don't know like a weird fight or flight I was stressed too because I felt like I had to respond to so many people

right so just being one person responding to so many comments and then that that Trend continues like I don't think it the resources scale like one person

can't scale to like respond to so many people in that kind of like parasocial situation like any advice for handling that kind of um situation where where

the perceived work is going to keep getting more intense than one person could handle that's where social support comes in so how can you be resourceful is there

anything you can delegate do you want to at that point get a um executive assistant or you know hire someone to be on your team or maybe you don't but like what are ways that you can reduce the

amount of pressure and the stress and things that you have to do especially as a solo person um also looking at is it really necessary to respond or is that

going to help the business is it going to help you be more creative so um really I would encourage everyone to have clear goals clear values and clear

intentions for every single period of time that's comfortable for you so I don't want to designate like you should do it every week or every month it might be every quarter every year but having those really clearly outlines can help

you in times of stress or doubt to be to check yourself and say okay am I doing this and it is playing into what I set out to do for this period of time or is

this misaligned like I had said earlier got it so it's checking in and just being really self-aware of what are my values goals and is this is this helping me get there or not and then you could

probably take it off the table it's not okay well can we yeah can we double click on that like so what is your general advice for helping when you coach people like how

what's the is the best way to clarify our values that's usually something we'll do early on and it's really as um point blank as

just saying please list out tell me let's talk about what are your top values and a lot of times people haven't thought about it we always hear about it and talk about it but to actually sit there and write out and do an exercise

where you're thinking and now it isn't um not necessarily something that we all take time to do especially when you're really busy and have to go make different content and videos and other things but

um taking that time to reflect can help in the long term yeah so what's your advice guys because I've done a lot of values or uh exercises with coaches and

I think one thing I've struggled with is I write down my values like like if I say like well like priorities like God family job or something like something it's like that's something I've held in

my mind for a long time but then when I actually think about my how I actually spend my time and energy it's like not really in that order of spirituality family work it's usually like so a lot

of times like work and I think a lot of creative entrepreneurs fall into that bucket um what's more important like the the aspirational values or your

actually your actual value or I don't know if they're better if it's actual values but the way you spend your time yeah um like you're practical or lived values I don't think they're more important

than another a lot of what we do in coaches coaching is the difference between your ideal self and your current self or your real self practical stuff like whatever the

their actual functioning human being that isn't perfect um what how does that compare to where you really want to be and getting

that client or yourself from where you are now and how your what are your habits what are your Tendencies what's your lifestyle how do you tend to think versus how do you want to be that's

where the coaching comes into play and you can self-coach um it's really just asking yourself questions I get you to think in different ways so okay this is what I

established for my values but I'm noticing day to day this is what I'm tending to prioritize so should I be shifting what my ideal

values are or do I want to shift um how I'm living my life so that they reflect and they match or closer match what my ideal ones are

got it so once once someone's has a better idea of really what they're what's important to them how what's your advice for setting goals let's say for a Creator if they have

you know they want they have goals for um they want to set their annual goal any advice there so making them realistic I most people probably know and I do find it helpful

though I know sometimes it tends to be cliche but there's something called smart goals so this really makes it where it's realistic you can measure it you have a time frame around it that can

be really helpful um you can do like a larger goal you can do ones where you then have three medium-sized goals um five smaller ones for a time period

so there's a lot of different ways that you can approach it but the biggest thing is you might have like an overarching um intention or like a blue sky thing that you ultimately want to achieve but you have to break it down so that it

doesn't feel daunting and it doesn't feel like a resolution because all the research shows that resolutions are not effective but having clear measurable

goals can get you to those bigger dreams God it's a getting smart breaking out down the problem into micro steps what

what what do you think about um because a lot of people especially like productivity YouTubers they talk about like input goals instead of output goals so instead of saying hey this year I'm going to hit 10 000 subscribers that's

my annual goal um how I'm back solve to figure that out a lot of people uh talk about like oh instead of that it's like I'm just gonna

make a video I'm gonna focus on what's in my control and do one video a week um and if it hits 10 000 or not that doesn't matter as much it's it's really um did I make show up and make a video

this week for 52 weeks like any I feel like I've been trying to do input goals but then I still in the back of my mind I'm like oh did I get to that subscriber count or

um yeah any any and any advice on how to think about input goals versus output goals that I think is an awareness of yourself

right like I think back to when I was a child and I was totally type A I still am and would come home crying if I got like a 98 instead of 100 and I remember

when I would study my mom would be like you just need to pass and so she's telling me like the bare minimum to kind of counter my high achieving high pressure so the input output goals

reflect on where you are so um this I'm new to hearing about these terms so I think you were saying the input one is like the bear minimum not bare minimum what's in your control yeah

what's in your control so if you find that you're getting really stressed out and getting a mobile because you're thinking about the other type of goal so the input goal is easier for do you to

do just to get started and get momentum then that's helpful a lot of times it's just how can you take one step forward every day and get yourself to do what you want to do

because like even with my own making content I for a while I made my Tick Tock before I did anything and I wasn't making any content because I was like oh I didn't do my makeup today I wasn't wearing a Blazer I didn't have you know

and then finally I was like I just need to make one and who cares how I look and then I started to make more and more content and that got me to get this very small little following but that's what I

needed so you have to really assess and you know analyze what's going on with your situation got it so it's not like it's a hard and

fast only do input goals will only do it but it's like what do you need and what serves you like if an input goal helps go forward if output goal okay cool cool and by the way I I liked your tick tocks when you're

wearing the big puffy white jacket that's like a fun Tick Tock Vibe so in terms of like priorities um

this is something I think some of our audience might struggle with I know it's it's like something I've thought about it's um like even just simple for priorities a lot of times like you know a lot of

people we follow like think about Maslow's hierarchy and you kind of want to make sure you're secure first you got the physical safety emotional safety and then you can actually finally self-actualize like

do you do you think that's like a better way to approach things like make sure you have like shelter making income and then doing the things you love that are

purposeful or or would it be better to focus on like what's purposeful and what's fulfilling and then money security things like that fall into place like any thoughts on that

because that's something I struggle with so the interesting thing which a lot of people don't know is Maslow's work was not actually a hierarchy that was

um translated for I was just reading like business implications where they put it into a model that put it into a pyramid and there's research and I haven't read the research directly myself that shows

that you can self-actualize without having security like people that are in homeless situations do self-actualize and a lot of times it take the people who have gone to themselves out of that

type of situation did self-actualize they don't have shelter so they're motivated to make money or get a job or do other things um so it depends on your preference but

yes to um there is value and there is um mazzo does have all of these different needs and they do play a factor and for sure security

um shelter do they are the foundation in many ways um but it's not necessarily one before the other so look back at what your intentions are look back at your goals I probably sound

like a broken record but it might be a combination of them so if you feel like you're jumping ahead of yourself and have this big goal you're trying to accomplish before you can pay rent or

whatever it is that's not necessarily A Bad Thing but what if like I think a lot of creators have that it's like they wanna do something fulfilling and and do

something they love and then also help people but then it's it might not it's it might never make money it might

not pay the bills for a long long time and so yeah I think it's just um the question of like oh should we make money first and then do the fulfilling thing or do the fulfilling thing and the

money comes a lot of this is looking at what brings you Joy every day and this is also something I wanted to point out with the burnout and stress conversation

um especially with creators the way social media is um created and I'm probably going to go on a little bit of a tangent here but it's meant to be addictive right and I

don't think that creators are immune to that so it's meant that you get a video that has a million views where for maybe 15 seconds

you're excited about it but then after that time you want a video now that has two million views and so you're in this continuous cycle of constantly chasing the next achievement

um so it's important to figure out how can you enjoy the process how can you make sure that you're doing what you're doing every day you know creator has the word

creativity so you're inherently someone that's creative how are you making sure that that spark is still there for you and all the content that you're producing and how do you make sure that

it is truly fulfilling so you may feel fulfilled it like truly fulfilled from knowing that you're a topical influencer and have so many views and likes and

follows um all of that or you might find that it's something else that's fulfilling so again just checking in with yourself for like what what's my why why am I doing

this is it for the right reasons and the right reasons might be or are very unique for every single person so almost everything that I'm sharing

here is a self-reflection and awareness um so it's like understand what what you really want um because some creators might want they might want they might be building a strict business where their goal is to

make money above everything else sub views is like the main metric other people if it's a hobby that yeah they should be having fun making the video and Views wouldn't really matter

um right but what about the people that want to make a business and have fun probably more challenging to find it but it's possible I mean why are you doing what you're

doing that that's something I I've been trying to get more clear on I would say the main thing is I want to do something

that I enjoy that that I love and passionate about um I think ultimately it's like I want to do something that I care about that's

like fulfilling and I when I drill down into it it's like part of it is I want to be loved so there's that validation piece but then another part of it is I want to like

give love to um and I think my personal Journey from going to from Finance to music to like being a Creator is I think a lot of it was initially driven

by being loved like a lot of taking and then I'm trying to shift to a mode where I can give and it's less about validating myself and it's more about validating others um

yeah so and then with the with the money piece it's it's like I want to be able to make money so I can just sustain all this um

so it's I think it's like it's it's those big things I'm thinking about like what what am I passionate about

um how can I be most helpful um yeah so it's it that that's kind of like the long answer yeah you're sharing and my question to you is

I heard receiving from others I heard giving to others but I didn't hear anything about self to self in there that's a super good insight

hmm foreign yeah I don't think I have to think about what that would even look like like what would it look like if it's just well I think

doing what I love is is part of it is I enjoy expressing myself and sharing that with people um so like actually just having fun when I'm coming up with ideas or I'm doing

research about like your content or burnout and it's just fun for me to research that and then to ask you all these questions about burnout and and goal setting and values like that's actually really fun for me

um so I guess that's the itself the replenishing part about it uh and that's the really key part that we

tend to leave out because our society makes it seem like if you focus on yourself too much you're selfish or your vain or your narcissistic

um but really loving yourself as corny as it sounds is a really critical part to being healthy and um a functioning person in society and your most successful self so you don't want

to go overboard but we tend to neglect that yeah and what do you think is the the line between going oh like loving yourself

replenishing versus um being like narcissistic and indulgent so it's for

like how you're honoring yourself so self-care is so that you can contribute you can do the things that you're

setting out to do and a lot of times people tell themselves I'm being lazy I'm being selfish like I experience as a mom is it selfish to shower to take five minutes ten minutes away from the baby

to make sure that I'm taking care of myself no that's not selfish I need to have proper hygiene benefits everyone from my own mental you know I've never

appreciated those five ten minutes more just to get some time to myself and then I can come out and have more patience so it's why are you doing it and what are your intentions

um and again the self-awareness are you doing something because you are trying to help others like what I was hearing you're doing so if you engaged in whatever self-care activity like I see a

guitar behind you so instead of working on um your next creativity piece your next piece of content you take 10 minutes and play the guitar is that

really selfish probably not because maybe in that 10 minutes you get a crazy idea and that ends up informing and being wonderful helpful content for your

audience or even if not it just you took a moment for yourself so that you can be your best self and move forward and then you can have positive interactions with other people

and be a positive source of um presence in your day-to-day life so it's really why are you doing it and what your attitude how you're treating other people did I answer

that fully for you yeah yeah yeah that's super helpful and well can you what's like the I guess any advice on how do you balance

doing it for yourself versus others um I struggle with that a lot and like you know a lot of creators say oh I do one for I do one for the audience and then I do one for me

and then some people try to integrate it um I definitely struggle with that because because like one of my one of the videos I'm most proud of that I've made is how to find a therapist and I

basically lay out it took me about two years to finally get off and find a therapist and make this first steps do all the research schedule the consults learn learn about the different

modalities and what I needed and really kind of match those and I made a video and I think it's if someone is looking for a therapist I think it's actually going to help them and hopefully move them one step closer

to that because I know it took me forever so that video has like 200 views and then but then I'll do a video that I did like a tick tock on um like uh how

big of a Weezer fan are you and then that had like 100 000 views and that was super fun but I it didn't feel as fulfilling to me um

so I stopped making it but then just pumping out 200 view videos for a long time is uh is tough too if I want to make an impact on people and make it a

viable business that I so I can keep doing it so yeah that's a good question so I think the Fulfillment piece is really key to all of this so

we get burnt out when we're not feeling close to the work there that like spark of Joy isn't there where you feel emotionally exhausted like it really is work rather than something we're

enjoying doing so the business part of it is that you do have to make contact content that your audience will enjoy but if you're only

doing that and you're neglecting all of the reasons why you were doing this in the first place and it's no longer fulfilling like as a Creator most creators

um are working for themselves or have a different work lifestyle I imagine than like a nine to five where you have a boss so you chose this different

lifestyle probably for the freedom and to be able to enjoy your day-to-day and the work itself more so why what got you away from being able to enjoy the

content you're producing and does it really matter um if you are producing content that's for you versus for the audience and

we get so wrapped up in the numbers like what an impact you had 200 people liked it or viewed it or whatever you said even if you got two people to find a therapist you still had a huge impact

and you don't know how that trickled out into the world right so like we've gotten so caught up in that and we forget that in real life like if you have five friends show up to your house

on a Friday evening like that's a great get-together imagine if you had a thousand to 100 000 people in your house that would be overwhelming so a lot of it's also quality and not quantity and

that's really lost a lot of times in social media I love that yeah yeah I think what I'm when it's like the day before I'm supposed to publish I and I'm still

editing and I that I want to be perfect and I'm fixing the last little like clip or the audio or making it perfect I'm like I I what's helpless I'm like oh is this

going to help someone in this okay if it answers yes I can probably publish it I probably don't need to polish it for another like two days yeah

it's hard to do because I starting my social media presence too and it's definitely a balance between you want to get a strong following that's where the money is and of course that's why we're all here like how

amazing is it if you find something that you love doing and you can also make it into something that's profitable but I remember making something that was close to home for me like really personal I

was like this is gonna be the one and I got like minimal interaction with it but someone commented on it like wow thank you I needed this and that was all I needed

I knew that I had helped one person and I was like that's okay and that is what that's my personal coping mechanism for one things aren't as successful as I thought that they would be

and that's just one way that you can cope with it there's a lot of different ways and all again it's all personal yeah I love that it's because one thing I'm trying to shift to I got this from

uh Ali abdall's class it shifting to like what's my dream comment so before I start a video I'm like oh what's my dream comment and it is similar to what you're talking about it's like oh wow thank you so much this helped me so much

in this time like I think if I get like one of those and I know the video I'll feel like internally I'm like did I enjoy it am I proud of it but externally I'm like okay then that that's like I feel really good

so definitely yeah thanks for that example and and kind of tying into that with creators um a lot of us a lot of us and I'm asking

for a friend or it's like we're perfectionists you know um and then I read this book on like procrastination and it basically was like saying procrastination big reason for a lot of

people is it's because the performance is tied to your self-worth and that really resonated with me uh and I know in your Tick Tock you talk about how perfectionism is linked with

burnout how yeah I guess how can a creator avoid perfectionism yeah and before I answer that I just wanted to tie in a lot of what we just

were talking about is external validation so um when you're creating content and it's tied into perfectionism too but how can you make it where your

accomplishments and your self-worth and how you're evaluating yourself is not based on the end success or like the traditional ways that you're measuring

success what are more creative ways that you can think about being successful um and how does that help boost your self-esteem and your confidence and your

enjoyment of the whole process and so with perfectionism again I talked a little bit about this before but people who are perfectionists attentive

people please and that goes hand in hand with how a lot of the content formats and platforms are structured like it literally is what we're doing we're trying to please other people so how can you um

make content that's fulfilling for you while reaching your audience and resonating with your audience um how can you balance so you're not overworking because we tend to

um there's a lot of imposter syndrome that's tied with perfectionism I'm actually giving a presentation on this right after this um so imposter syndrome is basically thinking that you're a fraud like you

don't have the credentials to be doing what you're doing and so we tend to overwork to overcompensate that to like justify why you're doing it but that can be a detriment to your stress and it can

deplete your resources so um again checking um checking in to see how am I measuring

success how can I not tie the perfect expectation with how I evaluate the situation and evaluate your standards

and what's realistic so a lot of this is just asking yourself questions and really really honing in on how much is this serving me is it beneficial

how much is this serving me yeah and yeah I guess any uh tips like more tips for how to move from that external locus of control to more internal locus of

control like because I think a lot of the times even for me and a lot of what you mentioned a lot of creators it's very the control is like external so you mentioned yeah being more self-aware is just serving

you are there other things you can do to shift that more internally yeah so I'm just to explain to anyone who doesn't know when you have an external locus of control a lot of times

you attribute your successes to luck and it's not anything about your personal trades your capabilities your skills the amount of effort you put in so when you have an internal locus of control you're

attributing that and so that in in and of itself helps to boost your confidence but if you believe that you have power and authority over the things that you

do and that you can really impact what you do and the things around you that can help you to be successful so with perfectionism um

a lot of times it's like well that little bit of tweaking that's going to take you three more hours have that much of a value add um a lot of times I come from a marketing background we'll talk about

the MVP the minimal viable product so like what's the minimal thing that you can do to get the most amount of impact and thinking about it that way can be a helpful way to offset perfectionism and

that too can help with your internal control because it's okay what are my strengths what effort can I put in that's going to make an impact um and how can I do in a way that's not

going to stress myself out too much um okay so it's kind of like lowering the scope and then focusing on what you can control and then focusing on your strengths got it got it and that's scary if you

have if you are a perfectionist and you have these high expectations and you're an overachiever to think about the minimal thing to do that's really uncomfortable

but I talked about the growth Zone um a lot it's it's the area between where you're comfortable and where it's kind of feels very fearful or dangerous

so if you're feeling uncomfortable that means you're probably in the right space and you're right on the edge of like jumping into some growth um so if you feel a little uncomfortable

with your that means you're you might be growing but then if you feel chronically stressed then that's like where you've gone too far and you're burning out yeah yeah okay well it kind of like going

deeper into that self-worth perfectionism burnout um topic like if if creators are linking self-worth to Performance

um I know you've mentioned before like therapy is where you you understand why you go into the past to understand why you link We link self-worth to Performance go like as a coach like looking into the

future I guess what can someone do to feel more secure um and decouple that from performance like

yeah it is helpful to have the awareness of where you came from um but in coaching like you said we won't focus on it so you might touch on it because being able to identify some

of your past patterns might explain where you currently are but coaching really is where are you now and where do you want to be and how do you move forward so if you

look at your situation and you're noticing that you tend to have perfectionist tendencies that you're getting really stressed out from the expectations that you're setting for yourself you're feeling like you're

starting to burn out you're losing that passion or the spark the motivation whatever it is it's not where you want to be you can take a step back and look at okay what are the causes how did I

get here but where do I want to be and what are the resources I can tap into um that might be external resources that

might be internal resources how can I learn um really having a curious mindset to look at different perspectives and ways that you can start to shift on

explore how can you evaluate your success in a different way like I was talking about before so maybe it's rating how energized you are when you're

making content like that might be your new uh success metric is how much it excites you how happy you are um might be how quickly you're able to get one done maybe not all the time but

you know like how inspired did you feel how fulfilled did you feel during it um things like that can help um

so focus on yeah so try to shift it to new new or internally driven metrics but like I guess I'm asking for myself but but like if I place myself forth on

performance so that's what led me to Banking and like VC and all this stuff and like even now sometimes views it's still linked um I know I know when I I climb that

mountain it feels good for like five minutes a day a week maybe and then it goes back and I'm I get back on the hedonic treadmill like I guess I'm trying to

I'm figuring out should I should I stop being so achievement oriented and just know my worth is an eight and anything I do is just leveling up my

self-confidence but they're not like they're not exactly the same thing um should I like stop being so achievement oriented or is there a healthier way for me to think

about achievement and and or is it like is there if I if I take out achievement should I just swap it out and then put something else in to give me self-worth like any any advice

there I know that's a lot do you enjoy it may do you enjoy the achievements do you enjoy the process of getting to the

achievements uh I think like if I look back on my career getting getting into like Goldman Sachs was like my dream job during college and I just worked for like three four years to get that and then when I finally did

it I was super happy um but when I actually when I was going that I get the offer like my senior year of college and then I have a whole year before I started working and I was kind

of dreading it the whole time and when I was in it I learned a lot but it was also very painful um so that's a lot different than when I was in music I wanted I think secretly I wanted to be

like blow up like Weezer I I was like I was like a mildly successful Indie artist like I still at the hotel Cafe but I never like became a pop star or whatever and so I feel like I in that

sense I kind of feel like I didn't live up to my expectation but but if I look back on those years in La like it was like the best some of the best times of my life so I would never give that up for anything

um yeah so I guess I have those two experiences to look at and then when you do think about the word achieving or like you think about your experiences and then what that would look like moving forward like

what's the first emotion you feel or the first thought that pops in excited okay so what is that information I'm telling

you I'm trying to I like the answers right now yeah yeah yeah thanks guys I I I I I get I get I'm excited when I achieve stuff and I feel good when I'm good at

what I do um but I think it's but it's become like I think uh uh brought me into it the shadow side of things where I'm doing overdoing it

and like every every video is like my Identity On the Line and that's why that's why I procrastinate or I spend three hours on that extra little like audio mixing so

what about your identity it's tied into the content you create um what I think it's I think it's if um it's me it's my personality it's it's not it's not like I'm just

oh I'm making a pizza Channel and I all I do is make pizzas and if people don't like the pizzas they don't like the pizzas but if it's like youtube.com Peter sue you go and it's Peter Sue talking about what stuff he's into and

if you don't like it sometimes I feel like oh then they don't like me or like yeah so the content is inherently showing your interests your passions a

piece and part of you is there any and that's scary um I can see how that's scary but is there a way that you can lean into that fear because we were just talking about that

could possibly be your growth Edge and your growth zone or maybe it's is there it just a piece of your identity but it's not your whole identity

yeah I'm trying to work those shift it so it's like a smaller piece of my identity but I think I'm used to making um my job like a huge huge part of my identity

so that's that's like the tricky part hmm yeah but you know it's it's hard to really reflect in words and figure out where

you want to be and the thing is with productivity and performance a lot of the work I do is counterintuitive especially the population I work with which are people that tend to be perfectionists and high

Achievers and it's like I'm trying to get them to calm down so I still want them to achieve and I still want them to be proactive but it's like okay how can we do it in a calmer happier way

yeah yeah what is your advice on that how can we be productive where it's sustainable and like like Azul in the audience that's like is

it like normal to how do you not burn out every 12 months like yeah yeah and that it's really making sure

that you have balance so you're balancing your goals and you're feeling productive and like you're working towards the things you set out for yourself to do but you're also realistic

with what your boundaries are and you've set boundaries so you set boundaries for yourself like I personally know that in a given weekend I can have like one social event I've always been the friend

that I cannot go out three nights in a row uh um it's too much for me I will get the flu that's just how I um was and it took me a while to realize that and then once I had that

realization I set the boundary of I can't do that anymore this is how I'll engage in social interactions I was able to be more successful um so it's telling people no it's

setting the framework for which you can function um being aware of what's worked and what has in the past and then how are you going to tweak that to move forward so

really being tuned into to yourself um what stresses you out what triggers you how can you set yourself up so that it's not that you're not going to be triggered but how can you minimize the

chance of being triggered how can you control your thoughts and your emotional response um because those are the things that you do have control over things like that there's no one set answer per person

because your own stress your own experiences are also unique hmm you know like a lot of people like

being unique like people say Be Yourself um be authentic be yourself like I've always struggled with it's like how can any advice on how you can be

yourself while also improving yeah that's a really great question that's where it was into a play of like

like who you are now versus what your ideal self is so you want to have the compassion we were talking about to not be judgmental of where you are now

um but also be confident enough and challenge yourself to go after the goals and like know that while you're great now you do have room to improve and you're only gonna be

a better version of yourself it's not that the person you are is terrible or whatever negative word you want to insert here but it's everything is okay how it

is now but tomorrow you want to be different and improved got it so assume so soon you're coming from a place of wholeness and you accept that then you you also want to grow and

then those are it's all kind of like gravy it's not it's not filling a hole it's like building the mountain okay I'll try to think about that more

and and with your you've coached a lot of High Achievers um and just coming out of Harvard I think just being in that world of high

achievement how what are some of the key traits that you've noticed among um your clients that help them to be successful and more productive

they're willing to do the work they're willing to change I've had a number of clients that aren't and it's definitely much harder to engage with them and at times I have to have a conversation with

them to say you know we this might not be something mutually beneficial because you have to have be have an open mind um and willing to get in there do the

work to figure out where you are now where you want to be so I'd say being curious having a growth mindset um so knowing that the amount of effort

you put in is going to equate to um you being able to change and that you do have control over that um yeah I don't know if I said I think you

asked me for three minutes no no that's awesome like the growth mindset curiosity willingness to change like what um

what what are three traits that hold people back from from reaching their potential yeah a lot of that is essentially the opposite so growth

mindset your fearful you're resistant to change you think you're okay where you are um you're stuck in your ways um

you don't have the motivation to get to the next step um so I'd say those are really the biggest pieces because everyone is capable of change you just have to be open to it

got it got it well moving into the rapid fire um so can you tell us what's your favorite book on psychology that's a very hard question I'd say recently um

seven and a half lessons about the brain by Lisa Feldman Barrett she has another book which I haven't read this one's like a much more quick read but she essentially has seven and a half myths

that she then um counters with that true facts about the brain and it's just so insightful I recommend that everyone uh take a peek at it um I'm trying to figure out how to

summarize without giving the whole book away but things um one of the biggest things is that our emotions and our brain so our brain is for

um predicting it's really a calculator so our emotions are pieces of information and how we respond and interpret and perceive the world is not necessarily

based on like reality it's based on our past experiences the information we're getting and anticipating the future which is why all of us have very different reactions and responses and

interpretations of any given situation so just everything in there was like Little Gems so highly recommend that one all right spark book full of sparkling gems

and uh if if if any uh did you have a favorite course you've taken um similar to my Tick Tock YouTube question at the beginning uh the course

I've taken in the past year was how I can get my baby to sleep so I could get sleep which is tied to productivity because I am certainly someone um if I don't sleep I'm not functioning

well so there was a specific course on how to help me and the baby get sleep and it was helpful oh man yeah I feel like we could all if we all got another hour or two of sleep

we give you so much more productive Well yeah if we could probably have a whole other interview just about my passion for sleep and how it helps perform it ah

nice and if your house was burning down and assuming your family's safe what three things would you grab first uh my computer for sure because my whole

life world's work is on it um really great question this is a hard one my phone and then probably photo albums like

things from childhood memories that you can't replace yeah yeah that's definitely my top three um so it's really like my animals were in the family categories oh yeah okay

yeah I'll assume the animals are in there too so if you could jump into a time machine and go to any place anytime in history for 30 minutes who would you talk to the thing that always comes out

they were more with it um they've all passed away now and when I was younger they weren't necessarily like in their best state shape so I know that there's so many different points in time but I just feel like now as an adult myself

going back and asking them questions would be really insightful and just personally helpful nice and uh favorite quote

hmm I guess in line with coaching is the only constant is change I probably can come find a better one but that's the one that's coming to my now and

um it really is crucial just knowing that like whatever state you're in now it's going to be different next um

happiness sadness anxiety stress whatever you're experiencing is is just now in it having that acceptance of just like letting it flow can be really helpful to

take the pressure off nice and and just the last audience question um in the chat someone asked if the coach encounters people with both physical burnout mental burnout if there are any is there any

part of coaching that involves prescribing drugs to combat burnout no so not if the coach is solely a coach

there are a lot of doctors that are coaches so if it falls into their domain of the doctor area then they could but traditionally you would have to go to a psychiatrist

um or some type of other Medical Professional that could um prescribe that but coaching is very different from therapy and it's very different from Psychiatry as well

nice and for someone listening out there today what is one thing you hope they take away from this whole conversation

hope they take away that it is possible to be really productive and calm and not overly stressed and that burnout doesn't

is not the end result of getting after your goals um and and um in terms of if the audience wants to connect with you learn more about your

work they just saw a mini free a mini coaching preview here um so if anyone wants to work with you for to reach their Highest Potential in work in their personal life

um or see your content like what's the best way for them to to get in touch yeah thank you um so I have a website it's emilytraniccoaching.com I also have Tick

Tock and Instagram um so that's just my handles Emily trani coaching um and you can send me a message on either of those so the website will take

you to um my email and you can just send me a direct message on either of those platforms so I would say those are the best ways messages

email yes and yeah so thank you so much I think I really really appreciate how you you took the time to come on to the show and answer all these questions about burnout and I think like a lot of

audience members were really excited to just hear everything you had to say and I'm definitely going to take away from this try to set more realistic expectations don't overdo it and then resource

appropriately like internally be more aware self-compassionate and then also get the social support um and it is super helpful to know that you

can be productive and be happy yeah so so thank you so much uh everyone out there for listening and thank you again Emily really appreciate you coming on of course it's my pleasure and I was really

impressed with your questions you definitely did your research so it was really fun to talk with you thank you thank you end broadcast