I Lost 20KG & Built 🇲🇾's Biggest Healthy F&B Brand with Agrain CEO, Kee Wei - Yum Cha Sessions #193

handicap the marginalized group, right?

I mean, more so that they need better meals.

They they need better nutrition.

Better nutrition, right? Because

obviously they are not eating enough food and probably eating not so good quality food. So, so we felt that we

quality food. So, so we felt that we have to do our part. So, anyone until today, we still run it. It's something

that I'm I'll link the thing in the description, bro. I'll pin the comment also if you

bro. I'll pin the comment also if you want to donate a meal to someone. I

think that's such a a great way to to like increase your karma points also.

Serious man.

Welcome back to the podcast. Welcome

back to Yamcha Sessions. Today we have Kiwi from a grain.

Uh wave wave Kiwi.

This is Kiwi's first time on the podcast. So we will be gentle.

podcast. So we will be gentle.

Welcome.

Please be gentle to me.

Yeah, we'll always be gentle. We always

gentle, bro. Okay, before we start, you go nearer to the mic and speak. Okay,

just in case. Yeah, you can lower the channel. Okay.

channel. Okay.

Uh before you start broadcast, don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe.

I always forget that. Also, if you want to contribute, Patreon link is also in the link below. It's a nonfunded podcast, okay? We fund it ourselves.

podcast, okay? We fund it ourselves.

So, please, please, if you are so kind.

Okay. Uh, a bit of context. Um, I have been on a weight loss journey for the last two and a half years, more or less, mostly because credit to MJ. Uh, he's

also he's always on the podcast. He's

the host. So, he told me you should start counting calories.

Started counting calories. a loss up to like 10 kg. Not as impressive as your 20 kg.

Okay. I I read about your story and everything. 20 kg is uh is incredible.

everything. 20 kg is uh is incredible.

The amount of discipline and two bags of rice there, man.

That is two bags of rice, bro.

Okay.

Yeah, that's two bags of rice.

Yeah. So, I I know about your story, but contextwise, uh Chester was like, "Hey, bro, I got uh the founder of a green, you know, you talk to him." I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ] man. Sure. Let's go." cuz I know

about you but I never tried. So that day I purposely made it a point to go and try a green also. And I have to say compared to Kubis and K compared to okay I think yours is the best.

Thank you.

And it's not just because you're here.

Okay.

I think the portion is so good.

I'm starting to love you already, man.

The portion is worth the money.

Yeah. Do you know how difficult it is to find like restaurant food that's good portion for the money? Bro, it's almost impossible. Okay, I go the [ __ ] is the

impossible. Okay, I go the [ __ ] is the size of like maybe my fist and a half of like the burrito that it's so small.

Feel like an Yeah, I go kubis and kale, so I'm like, bro, I'm never full, but a grain I feel satiated. I feel great.

satiated. I feel great.

And the Thank you so much. Yeah. And the protein portion is so nice. It's It's just nice.

It has to I think it goes with the macro. Yeah. Yeah. It goes with the

macro. Yeah. Yeah. It goes with the macro, bro. That's on point.

macro, bro. That's on point.

Okay. So, I went with my wife. We both

ate and I was like, "This is impossible.

How come I pay for this price? I feel

good bro."

Okay. And I I got to say like it tastes good. That's that's also important.

good. That's that's also important.

Tastes good and it's worth it. And I'm

not just saying this to butter you, bro.

I'm saying this because kudos to you because that is what Malaysia needs. You need good food.

Malaysia needs. You need good food.

Yeah. And you need affordable good food and it's like accessible.

Yeah, I think affordable good food is the the key word, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

I think that's exactly why we started in the first place actually, right? Like

like I think f going back [ __ ] I can't really How many years was this ago?

Seven years ago.

Okay.

That all went back seven years ago when we first started.

Seven years ago.

Yeah, I think we started.

Dude, that's the same I started this podcast. 2019, 2018.

podcast. 2019, 2018.

Yeah. 2018.

Oh, that's when we started.

Okay.

We started with this problem that we had in oursself, right?

Whenever we try to be healthier, we just it's just difficult, right?

100%. 100%.

Back then, seven, eight years ago, when you talk about healthy food, everyone was thinking about it must be expensive.

100%.

It must be tasteless.

Yes.

It must be small portion.

Small portion. It must be raw.

Yeah. Yeah.

What?

Yeah. Remember those days you pay like 30 bucks for your Caesar salad?

Oh my god.

And God knows no one even know what's Caesar, right? I I don't even know what

Caesar, right? I I don't even know what Caesar actually is until today.

I I I don't even know why it's called a Caesar salad.

And then it cost you 30 bucks.

Yes. I remember at time it was like I know the portion was like this this small 32 34.

I think the worst thing is right people equated right having a salad to being healthy. So right

healthy. So right just for context you can have a salad that's great.

Yeah. But the moment you add on like five 10 tablespoons of like ranch, bro, that ain't a salad anymore. That's

it fit the whole point. Yeah, it fit the purpose. The whole purpose. You must

purpose. The whole purpose. You must

just have a a Big Mac. Just go for it.

But I know that you do Caesar salad. If

you want to add on chicken breast, like you have to add on like what, another 10 bucks for 40 bucks for the entire meal.

Yeah, man. That's the whole day. Your

cost for eating quote and unquote eating healthy. And this is like seven years

healthy. And this is like seven years ago.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. But thank God got you. You came in the market right changed everything. I

want to discuss about how you got into it also because uh I think journey into FNB is brutal. We were talking off cam about

is brutal. We were talking off cam about this how like uh I never really meet anybody that go I love FnB unless you really love FnB. It's so rare.

Yeah, it's so rare because people in FnB they normally even question themselves. I'm

like do I really love FnB?

Okay.

Yeah. But uh before that thank you for lunch.

No problem.

I appreciate I'll send the bill to you later.

Okay. Okay. Sure. But uh Ash, do you mind if you move it out of cam just in case?

Yeah, it blocks. But I appreciate the food. Thank you so much.

food. Thank you so much.

Yeah. Careful.

Okay.

Thank you.

Uh how how did you Okay, maybe we have to backtrack a a way way back. Okay. I have

if you had to lose 20 kg in order to go through this journey, right? I am going to assume that you were a fat kid also.

I was fat. I was huge.

Huge.

I was huge. My first time meeting he was like, "Okay, this is our our good friend Shari is now that size now."

size now." Oh [ __ ] Okay.

How I was huge. How uh what was your relationship like with food man as a kid? Is it like your parents just give

kid? Is it like your parents just give you or is it like friends or is it like what?

I still recall I think it was my 10 years old. I I actually

years old. I I actually cook the meals for all my friends during my birthday party.

You cooked for your friends? 10 years

old?

Yeah. I think I think that's the age that I was.

Oh [ __ ] 10 years.

Yeah. I I love eating since since since I was young and I somehow love cooking somehow.

Whenever my my my my mom is in the kitchen, I will always make sure that I check her out.

I mean, not check her out, but check what she's cooking.

Yeah. Check what she's cooking. And then

I just like to see what are the ingredients. Yeah. Yeah. I I was that

ingredients. Yeah. Yeah. I I was that I was in food into food somehow. Were

you that inquisitive that you wanted to find out what ingredients is inside your mom's Yeah. And then and then whenever we go

Yeah. And then and then whenever we go uh for meals outside I mean in restaurants, right? I

I I tend to be able to identify what are the ingredients.

Oh, that's a gift right there.

They go into there.

This is me, bro. This is me. This is

literally me. This is literally me.

When am I going to start a business?

Let's go. Okay. We are open for partnerships.

Okay. Sounds good. So you you basically had like this pure passion for eating.

Pure passion for eating uh cooking and uh and yeah even even yeah even after I got my first job which is in a corporate job and and that's where exactly I found

Chester.

Oh shoot. So you all worked together before?

Yeah. I mean we didn't work we knew each other. We were colleagues back then.

other. We were colleagues back then.

Yeah.

Oh dude. Crazy. Okay. Okay. Uh I always knew that that uh is not going to last me long.

Yeah, that job.

Not because of Chester for sure.

Maybe.

Maybe I wasn't in the same team as Chester. Maybe that's why I know that.

Chester. Maybe that's why I know that.

But thank God you're here today because of that.

So you you joined corporate and you were you were in corporate for how long?

I was in corporate for four years. Okay.

Okay.

And honestly throughout the four years I always knew that this is not going to be my last job.

Why?

I you've always wanted to start a business.

Yeah. I always wanted to start a business and not that I dislike my my my my colleagues back then. I love my colleagues.

Uh it just didn't feel like me.

Yeah. And then of course deep inside me I I always love food. I love eating.

that has play a huge part in me and something in me just tell me that one day if I want to do something I'm going to own something it's going to be food.

Oh, it's going to be food related.

Yeah. And and and I also always knew that I wanted to have something on my own one day.

I see.

So I think that Yeah. And then one day I think somehow this just clicks together.

Okay. Having a business. Oh, I love food. It needs to be food.

food. It needs to be food.

Okay. Why not do something that okay combines this together, right?

Can I can I backtrack a little bit? What

what did you study before you decided to go into corporate?

That's an interesting part. I did

accounting and finance.

Oh, fantastic.

Most the same thing.

I don't know. Maybe like you study something and then you pivoted. But I

guess we are the templated Asian.

Okay. All right. So, you always knew you wanted to start something. Yeah.

Were you overweight also when you joined that time?

Because was saying that he knew you that time. I was I was already huge.

time. I was I was already huge.

How many kg were you?

90.

90.

At our peak. At my peak, I was like 90.

Yeah.

God damn, bro.

Yeah. I was fat. I couldn't even run. If

I run for like five minutes, that's it, man. For the day. For the week.

man. For the day. For the week.

For the week.

Yeah. But despite despite him being a bit overweight, he was kind of cute in the round size.

Okay.

There's always a polite way to describe me, you know. Okay.

Oh, he's quite cute.

So, you were 90 kilos. Then what sparked you to start to lose weight?

Uh I actually started losing weight during the pandemic.

Okay.

Oh, so you opened a grain first?

I open a grain first. Yeah.

Oh shoot.

Yeah. I think going back Yeah. I think I think I I I backtrack right to our to my to my story.

Oh, yeah.

Sorry. It's kind of everywhere.

No worries.

My story. Uh

so how I got into FnB, I think that was a question, right? how I got into FnB basically I was working I was still with uh the big four of accounting firm

and uh there was one day I I can't remember which year that was but it was my birthday okay and I recall my cousin calling me up bro there's this uh friend of mine who

is looking to sell their cafe oh yeah and then that came not too long after I made my I mean as usual, right? Your birthday

party and then you blow a cake and you make your wish.

Not long after I made my wish that I wanted to do something that I really like.

Okay.

And then not too long later, I still remember I was at Meat Valley somehow. I

was like uh after having dinner with my families after blowing the cake, blowing the candles, uh making my wish, walking around, my my cousin brother called gave me a

call for the cafe. about a cafe thing and I took it as a sign sign from so you mean made a wish and maybe after you mark dinner then suddenly your

cousin brother call you yeah it literally happened that way damn bro yeah so so I I I took it as a calling and and and

what cafe was for sale at the time it was this cafe called the townsman cafe at Kapong bandalara oh yeah so it was on sale apparently the owner

uh uh wanted to let go because I think the wife got into pregnancy and they are starting a family. So like this change. Yeah.

change. Yeah.

So so that that how that that was how it came about and he asked me whether I'm I was interested to take over the cafe. I was

like locktop barrel locktop barrel. Yeah.

locktop barrel. Yeah.

One shot by one shot. Yeah. One uh the prize there

one shot. Yeah. One uh the prize there there was there was a price was there was tech to it. I I I I I gave myself a night to think it over.

One night only.

One night only.

You gave yourself one night to think over buying your business, bro. Wow.

What the guy, man? Okay. Okay.

Yeah. So, uh

yeah, I think the next day I I I I I returned the call to my cousin brother.

Let's do it. Let's make it happen. I I

I I'm not sure whether that was the right price, that was the right cafe, it was the right thing to do. I was

honestly not sure. Are you allowed to disclose how much you bought the locktock barrel for?

If you're not if you're not comfortable, it's okay. Don't say it. You know, like

it's okay. Don't say it. You know, like PNC and all that.

Six figure.

Six figure. Wow.

Early six figure. Not not not like anything.

Uh early six figure.

You entered alone or did you partner up with someone or partner with someone actually? Yeah.

Okay.

And then and then that's how I use up all my savings from big four.

Wow, that is mad, man.

Yeah. So, that's that's that's how it all started. So, I I went into FMB

all started. So, I I went into FMB uh just like that. And I was still having a job, full-time job.

What? That is damn stressful, bro.

You haven't resigned back then.

I haven't resigned then.

Oh, [ __ ] I'm not sure whether should I be saying this, you know.

It's okay. It's too late now.

It's too late now.

It's a long time ago.

Yeah, I resigned. So, yeah. So, I was uh having my full-time auditor job and by night I I was actually at my cafe running my cafe.

No freaking way, bro.

Yeah. So,

auditor also not exactly like you finish them early also.

Yeah, exactly.

And he and I remember his team quoted like crazy back then, man.

Yeah, we set up quite late and and and yeah, honestly, now that I think back, right, I do not know how you did it.

Oh, I did it.

How long were you doing this concurrently?

I was doing this for one and a half years. So basically,

years. So basically, oh my god, bro. I thought like one two months or

bro. I thought like one two months or something then you can sue. What the

hell, dude? A year and a half.

Maybe I have very good colleagues who cover my [ __ ] you know.

How big was how big was your team?

Uh you mean the cafe or?

Yeah, like cafe.

It was only me actively running alone.

Honestly, I mean I mean I have my ground staff, right? I mean they were all back

staff, right? I mean they were all back then students. Uh they were

then students. Uh they were parttimers. They were part-timers. Yeah.

parttimers. They were part-timers. Yeah.

But I was like managing it myself pretty much. Sure.

much. Sure.

But but can I ask you didn't have any experience handling FNB and you just went with you went for one whole year year and a half year and a half juggling both your your

your your job and your uh business.

Yeah. It was like a crash course to into entrepreneurship to me.

[ __ ] Your learning curve is not like this. No, it's like this.

this. No, it's like this.

Yeah. Basically, I learned the graph.

Don't abide.

He's climbing.

Yeah. I'm broke.

Yeah. So I was like learning every single thing from scratch running a business from having your first sundhat. I mean I learned how to

first sundhat. I mean I learned how to how how to open up a new company with SSM all this [ __ ] all this dude that is so BS bro opening everything all this documentation and then you got fulltime job brother like

it's just so stressful and back then no GBT to help me. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like I was like uh hitting walls every single day.

Absolutely confirm. Yeah. And

what about the concept of the the the the cafe that you took over though at that time? Did you did you uh purchase

that time? Did you did you uh purchase it knowing that you wanted to do something related to health? Like did

you was it already called a grain at the time?

No. No, it wasn't.

What was it called?

Uh I remained the name as uh Townsman Cafe, which was the same name that was when I took it over when you purchased it. Yeah. I

didn't change anything apart from adding a few new things to the menu and that was about it actually. And I and until then I still never thought about uh

running a grain actually. I knew nothing about that back then. It was just purely FnB. It was a artisal cafe.

FnB. It was a artisal cafe.

What year? Sorry, 2017.

2016.

Okay.

Late of 2016. Yeah, if I remember my timing correct late of 2016. Uh,

wow. Damn.

Yeah. 2016. That was the year that I started uh the purchase of your mid20s that time, man.

Yeah. 2016. That's like 10 Oh, that's like 10 years ago already.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So,

yeah.

So, I I I literally went to it went into FnB not exactly sure what did I sign up for.

Yeah.

Went through [ __ ] when I'm having this conversation with you, your brain is like, "Yeah, we're just kind of [ __ ] up man."

up man." Yeah.

Now that I speak about it, I feel so, you know, [ __ ] what the hell?

Like, imagine if I had a if you had a kid, like your kid is 25 years old.

You're like, "Hey, uh, dad, I'm going to buy I'm going to buy this cafe and then I'm going to just take over." Then your dad is like, "You got a full-time job, right?" "Yeah, yeah, I'm going to

right?" "Yeah, yeah, I'm going to balance both." Then you're like, "Okay,

balance both." Then you're like, "Okay, this guy must be is joking, man."

Yeah, man. I will be like, "You can't, man. How can I do this, man? Yeah.

man. How can I do this, man? Yeah.

How many how many uh uh staff did you have at the time? Uh or did you inherit the stuff?

I inherited everything. Yeah, basically

from the staff, the recipe, the menu, everything. Yeah. So So I

everything. Yeah. So So I Okay.

And honestly speaking, it didn't do well honestly. Yeah. It didn't do well.

honestly. Yeah. It didn't do well.

And uh when I took it over, it was 2016.

Uhhuh.

I think that was the the start of the decline of cafes actually.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah,

back then, uh, there was a there was a few years that cafe was doing really really well because there there aren't that many of them.

Yeah, I think if I'm remembering correctly, I think 2014 to 2016, it was like the peak. Everybody was

culture. Everybody was into getting like a latte art culture, coffee culture for Melbourne.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The breakfast culture.

big breakfast that [ __ ] right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so 2016, I guess that was the decline.

And now that I think about it, maybe that's the exact reason why the previous owner wanted to Oh, [ __ ] bro.

And I was a sucker who got it 2020.

Okay. And then uh when you inherited that, did you decide to let it go and then you do a grade?

Yeah. So, I ran it for a good one and a half years. Uh

half years. Uh that's crazy. And that was exactly when

that's crazy. And that was exactly when I reached another uh I mean you can call it a uh another wall a pathway right a cross junction where I

need to decide where I want to take it from now right so because obviously like I said the cafe wasn't doing well I was like struggling between managing my work

uh from a full-time job how the hell you even manage bro most people are coming from work they're like tired done you audit bro I'm done ProMax bro.

I don't even want to do anything after that. I just want to lie down and just

that. I just want to lie down and just like look at the ceiling.

Yeah. So, yeah, I went through [ __ ] Seriously, I went through hell and and and and there was a time that I needed to decide honestly where do I know go now? Do I just focus on my full-time job

now? Do I just focus on my full-time job knowing that my cafe is struggling or do I just spend more time in my cafe to to revive it?

Yeah.

Right. So, I I took the hard decision.

You know what? I'm not going to make a U-turn.

I have decided on entrepreneurship, owning a business.

Let's go.

You double down.

I double down. I quit my job.

Oh my god.

I honestly do not know where did I get my guts from.

My boss must be damn big, bro. Now that

I think I can feel your balls underneath the table, bro. Godamn, dude. You Wait,

table, bro. Godamn, dude. You Wait,

wait. So, you decided, screw it. I cannot U-turn now. I already

screw it. I cannot U-turn now. I already

committed to this path.

Yeah.

You quit your job. Yeah.

Right. Did you just continue doing that same cafe or did you Yeah, I continued my cafe for I think a year.

Wow.

Did it get better?

No.

It was the same.

Okay. To be fair, there was uh there was a period of time where it got a little bit better, but it was still not enough to sustain to sustain.

Oh, I tell you, Kapong is a rough market mate.

You know, you're not desak city.

That's the thing. Although it is literally walkable. I could cross the

literally walkable. I could cross the road. Yeah, I'm in cross the road. Yeah,

road. Yeah, I'm in cross the road. Yeah,

I'm in Malara. You know what I mean?

The the branding is just so sad for Kapong. So like I think the majority of

Kapong. So like I think the majority of people if I were to go to Kapong Malara, it's like you want hawker food.

Yeah.

Right.

And right across the street people charge like four times more.

Yeah.

Like what the [ __ ] You know, I think it's just But to today I think it's a bit different. I think today now it's

bit different. I think today now it's like you know if you are Mangalara you're getting a better deal.

Yeah. You know,

I think you sum it quite well, right? I

think that's that probably sum up the problem that we had. We were neither here nor there. We weren't the cheapest.

Yeah.

And we weren't the most expensive. So if

you want something more expensive, you rather just go. Yeah. You just literally

go. Yeah. You just literally literally go across the street. You just

go into Desa You'll get something very atas, very premium, very nice.

a rich langu right why it's serious you go man is auntie buying at like supermarket all that right yeah and then they go to have good I mean I'm not saying kapong is bad I'm just saying that's what the

demographic is right you go to kapong so like realistically bro if I ask you let's say you ask me a question hey John where you at I'm in kapong oh what you doing then I'm like uh I'm either working or

uh I'm at a copam or I'm running errands but if you say hey John where you at I'm like oh I'm at desa city oh cafe You know what I mean? It's just by default right?

Yeah.

The default wipes that you get, right?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

So, yeah. Uh I spent a year working

yeah. Uh I spent a year working full-time on my cafe knowing that not knowing that it will not improve obviously, right? I tried to improve

obviously, right? I tried to improve things. Uh it didn't improve that well.

things. Uh it didn't improve that well.

And the same cousin brother who gave me a call about this cafe.

Why did you guys start laughing?

Oh my god. I feel there's a punch line coming over.

Is he a angel or Okay. And he calls you.

Yeah. And uh basically he was already running this restaurant called Hail. It

was healthy. It was this healthy burger brand.

How do you spell that?

H A L E.

Hail. Is it still around?

It's no longer around. Okay.

It's not around anymore. Uh basically

what they do, uh they serve healthy burgers.

Okay.

Basically the healthy version of McDonald's.

Okay. whatever they can think of in McDonald's, uh, they have it. You have

the healthier version of the fries where they are baked instead of deep fried.

And then you have, yeah, you have your buns that they make it in-house 100% on their own. And then you have the sauces

their own. And then you have the sauces that were made from scratch.

Wow. All these uh healthier healthier alternative. And then you have your

alternative. And then you have your patties that were made entirely in their own blend of meat.

Yeah. Of meat. and basically healthy version of McDonald's. So they were he was already doing that. How long was it?

I think he was running it for a good one and a half years or two.

Wow.

Yeah. And then

was that how you you pivot your your direction of your current cafe into a more healthier?

Yeah. I think that's how uh the a green journey started.

Basically my cousin brother I think he was facing some difficulty. things

weren't uh working out uh in the direction that he wanted and then that's where we sort of like caught up with each other and you know what let's let's do something together.

Okay.

I think that that's that that that was how pretty much a grain was started.

I see. and and and we always knew that deep inside us uh if we were to pivot to something else it was always going to revolve around healthy because obviously he has already

starting he has already started something that is already healthy it's just that it was not enough to appeal to the general market to the general market because burgers right because burgers at the end of day they don't they don't align together

with healthy yeah that's number one and number two uh it's not Asian staple food is ammo staples food. So at the end of the day

staples food. So at the end of the day after two years right I think what he realized was that only Amos can consistently eat burgers two to three times a week.

Yeah.

I think if you ask three of us here I don't think we have burgers every sing every other day.

Every other day.

My guy I don't even remember the last time I had a burger.

Yeah. Exactly. Probably

I don't even remember man.

Probably once a week is quite a lot already right. Yeah. So

already right. Yeah. So

man.

Yeah. So at the end of the day, we still knew that if we were to go big in FnB, it it has to cater to the mass to the

Asian, right? So we healthy was always

Asian, right? So we healthy was always going to stay not burgers. What's next?

not burgers. What's next?

And we asked ourselves, okay, what's the food that we cannot leave without?

Just rice.

I think rice.

Rice. Great.

Rice bowl. Probably

rice. Both. Yeah. And for me, for us it was the jafan. Yeah,

the mixed rice, right? And and and when you think about it, right, actually our three main races, right? Chinese,

Malay Indians.

Okay.

Uh yeah, thanks for being so inclusive. Just what

the [ __ ] You can totally be a politician, man.

The comments come, hey, what about this?

What about this?

Okay. Yeah. So,

oh yeah, they have all of us has own the mama version and you have chapata.

Holy crap, man. That's some mind-blowing [ __ ] right?

Yeah. And then we and and that was exactly then the time that we thought, oh, if you add up the market cap of these players, right? Chinese S fund,

Malays fund, Indian s fun. Oh [ __ ] it's damn big, right? There's a big market share that should be good money.

Yeah.

Right. So, so we thought, okay, let's you know what? Let's make a healthier version.

Yeah. And then

that is the way.

Yeah. That was

Oh, that's why your store the food is also sort of like Yeah. And then honestly speaking uh that

Yeah. And then honestly speaking uh that was when one of our indirect competitor started it was Fishbowl.

Okay.

It was the year I think 2018 or 17 that was the year that they started and they did really really well.

I think I think they started in Sunway and Right. Right.

and Right. Right.

Yeah. And then,

oh [ __ ] that was my first date with Jen. Holy crap.

Jen. Holy crap.

Wow.

Yeah, man. The hell. I know. It's like a warehouse area one, right? Near

University. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, so they did really really well and then we were obviously going to something new. We we did our homeworks.

something new. We we did our homeworks.

We were looking all the brands that that were doing well back then and what are things that we can learn from them, right? So, so one thing that we honestly

right? So, so one thing that we honestly speaking that we copied from them was the ordering using a paper.

Oh, the the sheet sheet.

The sheet. Yeah. So, basically we Yeah.

Because at the end of the day, we were we knew that we are going to sell uh the healthier version of chan.

Yeah.

And we knew that our price is not going to match the usual chan.

Yeah. So, so we the reason why taste is good is because it's unhealthy.

Yeah.

Yeah. like they oil until like it's swimming in it. So that's why it tastes less and all over night [ __ ] frozen [ __ ] everything. So So

everything. So So yeah. So So we were looking at ways to

yeah. So So we were looking at ways to uh healthify the elevate the experience, right? Not only

in the in terms of the ingredients because obviously the ingredients are well taken care of, we know exactly the moment we are doing healthy saf there's no other way to go around.

It's tough. It's tough. The moment is process is tough.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so what are the ways to elevate the whole experience? Okay. We

thought, okay, if you can actually select your food from a piece of paper, it's actually feels quite fun, right?

Yeah. It's like a ticking off a checklist type of thing.

Yeah. Exactly. And then and then you you have a feeling that you can actually decide every single thing that go into your bowls because that was not before fish came into uh the picture. I

think that wasn't a practice that you have whenever you go to restaurants, right?

It c can say not really checklist but like Subway had been like the OG since the get- go where you can select the vegetables. So it gave you the

vegetables. So it gave you the impression that you are also building your build your sub right if you will.

And then I I don't know what I don't know you all can correct me if I'm wrong in the comment section or both of you like stuffed also was uh or as I call it stuff D is funny. Yeah. uh they started

coming up as well and then it was a very Mexican choose your own healthy bowl choose your own kebab I recently tied like [ __ ] after eating stuffy so I don't even know whether I can trust I see you not the first one I

serious I had a bad brother I sorry we're deviating from the topic just let's remain on track about your your I just want to say stuff D that day

my lai was so bad I was crying on the toilet bowl I I thought it was because of the hot sauce though No, it is the beef. My god,

I cut I always add protein. Okay, I was like, w the stomach is like some somebody shoved the hand out my ass, right? And then grip my stomach so hard,

right? And then grip my stomach so hard, bro.

So painful. I was crying at 3:00 a.m.,

you know? I'm like I'm tearing up like, "Oh my god, I'm never going to eat stuffy again.

I cannot eat stuff again. I'm traum I'm traumatized man."

traumatized man." Yeah. And I I can tell FnB is nobody's

Yeah. And I I can tell FnB is nobody's fault. Okay. Sometimes it's old.

fault. Okay. Sometimes it's old.

Sometimes it's like the the thing was it can't be helped like this.

Yeah. It's just life. It's not every outlet.

Sorry, I'm I'm deviating. But I know that uh that time also only Subway did that whole health build your own.

Yeah, I did the OG one first one.

But it slowly became stuff. It slowly

became a lot of juicer was also Yeah, but can build I cannot right you build but on the menu you can you can you can but that's not their focus.

Yeah, not their bread and butter somehow.

Okay. So, so yeah, talking about elevating the experience. So, we

thought, okay, let's it's quite cute, right? You get to choose whatever that

right? You get to choose whatever that you want uh from a piece of paper and then and then exactly you brought it right, you brought it up uh in the right time basically Subway because Subway was

already doing this for the longest time.

But if you recall your experience at Subway, whenever there is a queue behind you, I'm never going to queue. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And and yeah, it was experience, right? So basically if you

experience, right? So basically if you are going to pick you basically point and pick whatever that takes so long.

It takes so long. Yeah. And then and then you'll feel like oh someone is pressuring you whenever there's a key.

It's literally every time bro you are just like [ __ ] like five people and then the fer at the subway making it they're like you want yeah what do you want?

Make out of mind bro and you everything.

Yeah. Okay. Everything and now you everything. Then after you go back you

everything. Then after you go back you open your sandwich you you start taking out things that you don't want. Right.

So the experience was just bad. So you

thought okay this paper should solve that problem. Right. Basically you you

that problem. Right. Basically you you take time you take a good time after uh after choosing.

Yeah. You you take a good time choosing whatever that you want. You think

properly and then we no one is going to rush you. You take your own sweet time

rush you. You take your own sweet time because it's lunch time for most most of our customers. You are corporates after

our customers. You are corporates after after a few hours of work. You are

tired. You just want to have control of something.

That's that's a good way, right?

I also like the fact that you have uh already constructed bowls, you know? So

it's like for those who don't really want to think they like [ __ ] it. I

already know I like to eat this.

So uh we started off not focusing on the we call it the preset bowls.

So we basically wanted everyone to be able to choose whatever that they want but not until we realized that there are some people who are just too busy. They can't be bothered. They

too busy. They can't be bothered. They

just they just want something quick right after uh they have a short lunch. They

just want something quick. they are

rushing off to a meeting or something and then they just you know what uh I just want something quick and then I just want the calories to be shown of which certain yeah some some not all of them for sure

but yeah some of them but uh they want to know the calories count let's say if it's they want to know the macros yeah yeah so all these are the information that we display in our order sheet right now

I saw I saw it's quite impressive bro because uh you know okay I this is like me being a conspiracy theorist If you notice in the past maybe since

pandemic the the conversation about health has changed so fast you know 2020 when COVID happened right a lot of people were like oh vaccinations hospitalizations back you

know all these sort of things and then it slowly grew into like a pre like a prevention case type of thing and then now it's so it's so wild bro in

the last two years the the change of people understanding what they consume is dramatically increased. the calorie

counting has grown so much in the past like 10 years and it accelerated like met especially the last two years now almost

uh like I wouldn't say 50% but maybe like 20 15 to 20% of health conscious uh restaurants will state their calories it's wild and I like thank god like you

state their calories it's so much easier for me because I don't need to like count you know this that we bring a freaking weighing scale remove the food and then you know what I mean and then like

it's it's mad how you did it and then when I was going there my wife I saw the menu I like Jesus Christ lifesaver I don't need to think I don't need to like count upload to

chat GPT ask what is the calorie I'm so grateful so that's why it's so convenient I think it's I think we are one of the first who actually displayed the calories yeah and then we actually have a macro calculator on our website where

where you can you dumb then you add on the yeah you choose whatever you want to give you the idea to do it. Do you like like copy from another one or use like just

the the macro calculator thing was uh something that we uh referred to there I there's a brand in in Singapore that did it actually. Yeah. So so we thought okay

it actually. Yeah. So so we thought okay this is something that you should introduce that we should introduce to Malaysia.

Imagine McDonald's did it.

You check out the counter time, you see your bill and you see car, you're like, "Oh my god." Okay.

The thing is other McDonald's in uh they do Australia all display, right? They

just came back from Adelaide, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. They do. That's the thing they do.

But then when I came back to Malaysia, I'm like, "This is sucks, man."

Yeah.

Actually, McDonald did uh display their calories. I think back then when we were younger.

No kidding.

Yeah. If you realize, if you recall, I recall that there's a chart that they display in their restaurants that there's a chart showing every single calories count of their meals actually. Yeah. Seriously.

actually. Yeah. Seriously.

Again, again, we were kids back then. We

didn't we were kids. Yeah. We didn't I pay attention to these kind of things, right? So, so I I I realized that it has

right? So, so I I I realized that it has been around for the longest time, but not until probably they felt like, okay, you know what? I think now Malaysians are quite educated.

Better not.

They they I don't think this is going to be in in our favor, right? if anything

is going to be against them, right? So,

I think they brought it down. So, for

some reason, I do not know why.

And also the portions have decreased, you know? So, I don't know whether you

you know? So, I don't know whether you go I mean all of us we go to McDonald's, okay, we're not [ __ ] perfect, right?

McDonald's.

There's a McDonald's literally down the road or so, right? But like every time you go to McDonald's, right? Last time

you feel like, wow, quite at least now you have to finish the fries to feel and my guy the fries is the the largest contributor to your calorie. Okay. But

like you will not feel full after one burger. You must get a second burger to

burger. You must get a second burger to feel normal. This for guys. I don't know

feel normal. This for guys. I don't know about girls.

When I had McDonald's, I literally ordered this the set where it comes with the the spicy chicken man deluxe and a piece of chicken. Then I for me be full.

Yeah.

Yeah. It has to be that. There's no way.

I think the portion shrink so much. I

think if you recall I mean my favorite is the filio fish, right? If you recall back then the cheese that they give you some fat is a full full piece of cheese.

Yeah. It spilled out of the burger.

Yeah. Spill burger, right? Can see now it's like half of it only. You can't

even see the cheese.

It's half cheese.

Yeah. It's half cheese. Yeah.

Yeah. It's not even full cheese, you know. It's It's wild.

know. It's It's wild.

Yeah.

And not only that, like I don't know.

Maybe I'm I don't know whether I'm big.

I wish I was big, you know, like you know. But like when I look at it,

know. But like when I look at it, it's almost as if like it's like a toy.

You know the size it's not it just feels sad.

Yeah.

You just feel sad and the price is not that cheap.

Yeah.

And I don't know why right last time McDonald's can customize but now cannot customize. Do you realize this? Like

customize. Do you realize this? Like

last time I can add on one you know like if you go to those old McDonald's they have a huge menu on the side and then you can like oh I want to add another slice of filt fish you know into Yeah. I

add the lettuce whatever and it McDonald's used to be known as customizable. cannot you know you go to

customizable. cannot you know you go to the menu right the machine menu you tan you press press you there's no way to add the only thing you can add is another burger that's crazy man

so there's a saying right among of FnB's players uh so nowadays there are so many restaurants that offer you food that will make you not hungry

food that will make you not hungry instead of making you full think about that just because all this while we have in

I mean subconsciously if I go to restaurant I want to feel full.

Yeah.

But I think nowadays because of all the cost pressures or or you call it cost savings or whatever there are so many restaurants that have went into this I wouldn't even call this

is a niche but went into this category where they offer they start offering food that will not make you hungry.

So it's like bare minimum is what you're trying.

Yeah. It's like num enough to for you not to complain.

Yeah. Yeah. They find the they manage to find the right spot. Bro, I [ __ ] hate that [ __ ] you know?

I hate it so much. Especially right when like you know, did you go to school or you go private school?

Yeah, I went to You also went school, right? Okay. You

all have nas in school?

Of course.

The boonus one.

Of course.

Okay. When you open bongus, you just ask.

Is it a full egg?

No.

No. Never. Is it? Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm

going to go. Is it half egg?

Why half, bro? It's only

Is it even quarter? Let me ask you. Is

it even quarter of an egg?

It's an omeolet where they just give you one sheet.

Yeah, bro.

It's like they fried egg and then they cut it in. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sometimes they give you a hard boiled egg, but the cardboard is no way is a half egg or something egg right?

You're lucky to get the egg yolk.

Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes like the egg yol is like [ __ ] like a fingernail, right? And the carb ratio to meat is

right? And the carb ratio to meat is ridiculous when you know 99% cups.

Yeah. And sugar because of the sambal and everything, right? Then as you grow older, as we grew older, we were quite fortunate to be born in a time where at least you order chicken chop from like the hawker food

restaurant all that or you go to McDonald's or even go to like Esquire Kitchen for example, the ratio for meat to cup is not so bad. M

40% 30% if you are in a a nice place.

Yeah.

Now I go the protein ratio is [ __ ] off the charts, bro. It's like you're lucky if it's even 20% sometimes.

I look at the meal right I'm like my god this is just carbs.

Yeah.

Just to make you feel full. You know what I mean? But it's not

full. You know what I mean? But it's not the right type of full one. You know

it's ridiculous just full cups. But they

always say, "But the cost is the same deal." You give me [ __ ] a lot of rice

deal." You give me [ __ ] a lot of rice and [ __ ] of course it's the [ __ ] same, right? You go ka now also, right?

same, right? You go ka now also, right?

My god. They're like, "Hey, it's still 10 ringgit ma."

I look at the rice, right?

Yeah.

It's like [ __ ] four scoop of the bowl, but then the chicken is like a wing. I'm like, my goodness.

wing. I'm like, my goodness.

But cost is really something that FnBs struggled with the most nowadays. I

think it's one of our biggest uh challenges.

Challenges especially now with the oil gas with the oil and gas wars.

Yeah.

Uh transportation transportation logistics and then uh packagings food packagings are one of the badly hit because especially

plastic products right fun fact I only knew this not too long ago. Right.

People product also need plastic lining.

Uh no but basically plastic products uh are made up of 80 to 90% petroleum. I

didn't know about this actually.

Oh [ __ ] 80 90% of plastics are made out of petrol.

Did you know? Now I'm going maybe if you don't know now you know. Even paper

products need petroleum because paper products inside the lining to prevent it from soggy. Right.

from soggy. Right.

Oh, okay. Right.

Also is made of plastic. So that one. So

technically [ __ ] Yeah.

Okay. So basically these are the cost that have flew up ever since the war has started right. I think at least by 20 to

started right. I think at least by 20 to 40%.

Damn. That's crazy.

I was uh in Philippines just a few days ago.

Okay.

For uh site inspection for a project.

Okay.

So before this, this is a bit of side tangent just to give you an example of how bad it is.

Okay.

I was conf uh the job that my client entrusted me to do in Manila was maybe a month and a half ago. No, actually just before the war.

Okay.

Quotation all approved everything already. I signed off already. So I

already. I signed off already. So I

said, "Okay, I'm going to go to Manila.

I'm going to go for sign inspection to check out the hotel."

Yeah. Bro, just when the war happened, they were like uh my suppliers all like uh we have to increase 20 to 30% of the transportation cost. They're like 20 30%

transportation cost. They're like 20 30% is quite high.

My quotation has been signed off my client like we really have no choice or we cannot do your job. Like my god. So

never mind. I go in Manila, right?

Bro, it's so bad.

The people there like I was in a grab, right? He told me uh he used to earn

right? He told me uh he used to earn like maybe a 100 USD a week.

Okay. And bro, cost of living in Manila is very very low. So the average s the average household income I think is like only $500 a month for a family of four.

Malaysia is about,500. So it's a third of what Malay a Malaysian household earns.

It's so low. And he said you know my petrol just times three.

And he's like how do I even do grab?

Yeah.

He's like I only can do grab if the journey is far enough for me to earn a slither of profit.

Yeah. So I'm like, "Holy crap, man. That

is so scary, man."

Him in the end.

No, my cost also went up, right? I'm going

there for sight inspection. I already

charged my client. I gave my client discounts some more. And this is before the war cuz she said I need to allocate within the budget. Yeah. It's so difficult, you

the budget. Yeah. It's so difficult, you know, over there.

That's crazy.

Yeah. So I think it's also trickling down to here. I mean, we are very fortunate that we also have our own oil although it's exported to majority of other countries.

We should be lucky for the subsidies.

Yeah. I also heard that like I know this is a political thing but I heard we have very good relation relationships with Iran. So that's why our oil super

Iran. So that's why our oil super coming. Thank god this and I if you're

coming. Thank god this and I if you're Muslim and you're watching this please don't consider me as racist but normally I would consider like are you why are we a Muslim country when I was a kid now I'm like thank the Lord we are a Muslim

country bro.

Alhamdulillah.

Yeah before this I was like a damn but now I'm like wow we are so I'm so grateful we are born at the right place at the right time.

Yeah. Uh I want to go back to your journey of a grain, right?

Sorry, we are everywhere.

No, no, no, it's okay. So that that's the whole point of this this podcast.

It's like uh just a casual conversation to get to know, right?

Uh how did you and your was it your cousin brother?

Yeah, basically our co-founders. Yeah,

co-founders.

When you decided to pivot to this, you all went into Tatan, the healthy version, all that. Then how did you restart this entire operation? Because

now he has I'm assuming like a kitchen that is already very familiar with health products. Did you sell your

health products. Did you sell your previous cafe? I Yeah. So, what happened

previous cafe? I Yeah. So, what happened to the cafe was that uh I sold it off uh even actually before we lost stock barrel.

Lost barrel as well.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

But obviously I sold it off as a at a better price to the to the person that I sold it to. Yeah. Yeah. Uh

right before that we were thinking of uh pivoting into a healthier cafe.

Yeah. Uh we were we we did our R&D, we did our food tasting and all. Uh we

wanted to convert that lot into So it's the hail lot.

Uh no no hail basically was at Manara Haps Singh which is where we are at now as well. Yeah, that's our HQ. That's our

as well. Yeah, that's our HQ. That's our

first hail and our first a grain store as well.

Yeah. And then and then this cafe at at Kapong, right? Basically, at one point

Kapong, right? Basically, at one point we were thinking to change it up to there's this uh restaurant in Damsara Kim that is very famous. I can't recall

what do they sell? Wait, what?

Yes. Uh Table and Apron.

Best fried chicken, bro. The one

that's my first date with my with MY WIFE NOW.

OH, MENTIONED IN THE PODCAST.

OKAY.

OKAY. So basically uh yeah we wanted to do some concept like that a healthier version of table apron cafe concept in kapong. We thought okay it might work

kapong. We thought okay it might work and then not until uh we have uh

how do I put it? Basically we did all R&D food tasting it was all right. Uh

I think somehow there there was this question about okay how do we then focus right if we are we knew that we are

going to do a grain already and then and before this brand a grain u was created was created uh we already are planning

for a totally different brand how what what what how are we going to focus right I think I think it came back to that that uh because that was exactly the reason why I left my full-time job as well. I

think focus right I mean at the end of the day he has you need to you need to commit to what uh to something right you just you can't just uh sit on the fence and just do

just just don't decide and and do both things right it will it will lead to chaos neither here nor there basically right so so focus so at the end of the day I think we stood firm on our decision that you

know what let's just be focused on one thing let's just do one let's just focus on the grain let's just make it big and there's no other way there's There's no other thing that should deviate our focus.

So that's why hail had to H was had to stop.

Hail stopped.

Then we uh I saw a cafe and then we basically just focus on a green and also hail and a green were concurrent at the time.

Yeah. There was a point that there was a point where in that specific premise where we were doing hail half of it was hail half of it was a grain.

I see.

Yeah. Not until not until when we thought that okay a grain can be on its own already and then that's where we stopped Hill completely we just focus on a grain did did you feel like a grain was scaling very much because of the concept

that your went through and then Hill also had to take a backseat so it's like you can see that the growth is in a grain yeah demand more for grain than than Hill

it's the burger thing it's the burger thing yeah so back uh there was it reached a point where Uh because obviously we were always in corporates. I mean Manra Hapsing which

corporates. I mean Manra Hapsing which is our first store we is a very corporate area.

Lunchtime uh there was always going to be a queue uh for our for our meals and then it was corporate.

Yeah. Corporate u and because the lunch time is pretty much the same right 11:30 12 and then it's big as well. So the

queue was I mean as a start he was always having the one having the queue slowly after few months a started the queue sl start start started to convert

to a grain and then one and then there was this time and then fast forward to maybe the the month that we decided to close heel right I mean you can see that the drastic difference between the queue

oh [ __ ] that was for a grain and if you look at hill it was just not there anymore. Wow.

Yeah. So, basically we we pretty much converted most of our customers to a grain and then that's where we thought you know what let's just do one focus on it and let's just let's just make it big. I

see.

Were there any drawbacks when you decided to close hill? Is there like you know know the customers that you know really like Hill then decided to Yeah, there there were for sure. I I

mean I mean I mean these are the hard decisions that that that I would assume so that that that we have to make along the way and then this happened to be one of them and and and I mean there are definitely regular

customers of Hill that we have to disappoint but I think overall you got to keep people afloat man.

Yeah. I mean we can't make everyone happy. I think at the end of day that's

happy. I think at the end of day that's what we learn. I think

a few man Yeah. I think we just need to make sure

Yeah. I think we just need to make sure that as a business we need to be sustainable on our own before we can make everyone happy. Right. You can

always do a hail back for a week that thing just to make a few customers happy.

Either way, keeping a float is the most important thing.

Yeah. What year was this when you close here?

2018 as well. I think 2018

as well. I think 2018 and I'm assuming after that you all decided to scale a green.

Scale a green and then in the first year itself we actually went up to in the first one and a half years we actually went up to five stores actually.

Wow. In the first year itself.

First year. Yeah.

First year five stores. You not scared?

Scared.

But then what made you want to take that leap of you know first year people just go with maybe one or two then you guys just went straight five.

We saw traction in it right in our first store we saw good traction and then along the way we were also offered good lots because back then back then obviously healthy was

very very trendy you know wow you know something different and then like when fish bowl started picking up.

Yeah. And then and then especially the malls, they love having new brands uh that have long queue. Okay. They they

obviously we get a few I won't say the best deal but good locations. Yeah.

locations. Yeah.

And then we just we just took pretty much a leap of faith and then just you know what can you remember the five outlets still today.

Yeah for sure. Uh

Hing is one.

Hing is the first one. Intermark the

second.

Intermark inter is like crazy expensive.

Yeah it's expensive. Uh but we did quite well actually there. Uh yeah. So that's

the second one. Intermark

gardens north tower was the third one and then the fourth one is uh Bangsa South.

Oh the sphere.

The sphere. Yeah.

I noticed that you you I mean maybe you go to the last one.

Yeah. The the fifth one that we had right before the pandemic was so bro is the like protest area bro. So

every time people go protest there.

Yeah. So fun fact actually we at our peak we have eight stores actually then we and our peak also we closed six stores because of panic. Yeah. Before we

go there. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah before we go there I want to just double check. It's like

when you took that leap of faith do you all actually like do any kind of research first before you all started to like okay maybe I want to go into this and go into this casual projection or you just like scale.

Just another fun fact all of us uh obviously we have a few co-founders and then we have partners as well. All of us were from finance background.

Ah, I knew it. That's why I asked that question.

Yeah. So, two of uh there were three co-founders, right? Uh myself uh my

co-founders, right? Uh myself uh my cousin brother Jason and uh Kendrick uh both of them they were actual scientists.

Oh my god. This one is definitely too bro. How can they not do research bro?

bro. How can they not do research bro?

This one. Okay.

Probably too if anything is too much research, too much homework, too much numbers. This is the thing I wanted to

numbers. This is the thing I wanted to double check whether is it really factual or not.

So, uh we obviously did our projections and uh a lot of numbers, a lot of research, a lot of homework, a lot of uh just to prove that it is worth scaling.

Yeah. Yeah.

And where you scale as well.

Yeah. Where where is actually it's pretty risky from what you described all your five places initially because those places are really quite uh I wouldn't say atas per se, but it has

it's all office bro. It's all office but and rentals for each and every location is pretty it's pretty high man. So uh yeah there actually we were I mean obviously our

first store was at HubSp and then before we started scaling obviously the question that we asked okay who do we want to serve actually like do we want to focus on the corporate crowd or do we want to focus on the shoppers

or who do we want to focus on the uh the retired crowd I think uh our decision was okay let's just focus on corporates bro it's the best yeah it's the best it's the best out of the of any other

target market yes No. Yes and no.

yes No. Yes and no.

Wait, please tell me no. Please. How?

How was it? No.

Weekends. The weekends. Weekends. And

who care about weekends when the guy come five days a week, bro?

Okay. That's Were you from a finance background?

Yeah, bro. Do I look like a guy from finance?

bro. Do I look like a guy from finance?

No. No. The reason I asked that was that because for us, okay, why we chose uh a corporate crowd to target, right? Like what you said, right? Seven days, five days they

said, right? Seven days, five days they are working. Five must be better than

are working. Five must be better than Yeah.

two, right?

Yeah.

So, we went for that not knowing that dinner crowd they are not around.

Yeah.

Every single day, week weekdays if anything if anything they are the first to get out of their office the moment 5:00.

The golden hour is usually lunch time.

Yeah. Lunch time. So, basically you only have lunch, dinner will be quiet and then the uh weekends will be quiet because they are going to be away. Yeah.

Yeah. So, so

you close your shop.

Yeah. So, so I mean thankfully grabb helps grab food help us with our our odd hours basically. Yeah. So basically yeah

hours basically. Yeah. So basically yeah we we asked ourselves okay corporate crowd or non-corporate crowds we we went with corporate crowd hence intermark hence

gardens of tower hence the spear bangas so is not really so cano yeah so was the

actually so was the last outlet that we opened before the pandemic and it was the first to go after the pandemic I just okay thank god so it's no longer so I just want to say so is a trash

mall bro.

My god. They're using fans, bro, in the the supermarket. Do you see like you go

the supermarket. Do you see like you go to keep pass, bro? Like ceiling fan at the store.

I have never been there.

So, honestly, so was a outlet where uh weekend crowd.

Not really, but we thought uh maybe at that point in time, I was still having four stores. We were slightly

four stores. We were slightly overconfident that you know what, let's just target something that is not our core audience.

Oh, okay. Okay. So, it's a diversification.

Diversification. Yeah. We wanted to penetrate a new market.

Worthwhile risk I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not worth after all.

I mean now you it's always on the hind side, right?

So, yeah, we went with So thinking that because of all the four stores that we had, right? Uh one thing that uh is

had, right? Uh one thing that uh is consistent is that the audience are majority Chinese.

Okay.

And we wanted to move away from that.

You want to go Malay market.

We wanted to go heavy on Malay Malak. So

we thought okay corporate plus Malay where can it be? I think so is one of the best for corporate plus I see.

So we were offered on the seventh floor uh tough seventh floor. Yeah, seventh

floor is a floor one floor above the foot of So and it was when we were pitch of this location, it was going to be the

newest floor in So where they are going to rew to have, you know, right? Yeah.

So they are going to ream no more fans and then they are going to make it modern. They are going to bring in a few

modern. They are going to bring in a few modern brands and then you can be a collective.

Yeah. And then and then to make it to make things better because we are one of the first that is signing up for that lot. We our rental is cheap. Uh

lot. We our rental is cheap. Uh

can say not now that you're no longer there.

3K bro that's [ __ ] cheap. Yeah.

So the temptation is there right? 3K we

went there and boom that was January 2020.

You start wait so go you move January 2020 into so 2020.

Yeah. And then two months.

Yeah. So March Oh [ __ ] 16 or 18 was the first day of uh MCO, right?

And uh even before that, the best part 28th of February, we have just completed our central kitchen.

We basically took over a central kitchen.

Okay.

Knowing that in that year 2020, we were preparing to scale to 10 stores from five.

So Oh god. That means your central kitchen

Oh god. That means your central kitchen is damn big some more for 10 stores.

Yeah, it's is is crap. The equipment must be heavy duty

crap. The equipment must be heavy duty is bigger everything somewhere.

Yeah, we committed to all these things and then even on top of that on the made your wife at that time.

Heaven.

Okay, not so bad. I guess you know if you were single that time then not so stressed.

Yeah. So uh yeah I I I that is was the period that I couldn't forget all this uh timeline right uh the

a week before the MCO started we signed a check to TRX committing to a lot in TRX okay this was 2020 when TRX is not even there yet bro

I mean it's halfway there yeah but no one knew yeah no one knew but there yeah yeah yeah so because it was one of the polit icized project, right? So like no one wanted to because it's called cartoon.

Yeah. Yeah. So no one wanted to hype it up and and no one was paying a lot of attention to it. But to us, we always knew that that was going to be a next big corporate thing. So we paid a check.

The check was 60K. It was for the deposit for the location. It was for the rental deposit, whatever [ __ ] My god.

We paid a month before, a week before the pandemic. We had our central kitchen

the pandemic. We had our central kitchen was nice enough to let you tal [ __ ] ass.

But did they at least like give you a leeway of you know 6 months you don't have to Oh [ __ ] Basically I I'll share a story later on that. So basically we went with So

that. So basically we went with So January 2020 we DX check DRX check and then we have a central kitchen for 10 stores.

For 10 stores. Yeah.

The initiative for Yeah. And then

18 of I think it was 16 or 18 March that's when MCO the fund starts.

The fun starts.

Yeah. MCO starts and then the sales of our stores because it's corporate plummeted. Yeah.

And then we were already on grab food thankfully.

Thankfully.

But it was just not enough. It was never enough bro. That's not even like maybe 20% of

bro. That's not even like maybe 20% of what you would expect from a sale, bro.

That's not even I think maybe even 10% is it was like a 80% drop maybe in terms of the overall sales. That's that's how bad it was. And and we had to leave with the

it was. And and we had to leave with the central kitchen with four full-time staff with the host for the central kitchen.

My all these cost just add up and Oh my god.

Yeah. And it was very bad.

Yeah. And then so yeah and now that I think about it right we started to make so many wrong decisions just to keep the central

kitchen because we had a central kitchen it was never in our mind at that point in time to remove it. Yeah because

obviously you know what things will get better it will improve. We can we can get over this we'll be fine. So we we never closed any of our stores. We never

had the intention to close our central kitchen. We basically wanted to, it was

kitchen. We basically wanted to, it was quite naive now that we think about it.

Basically to turn the cost center into a profit center. We were having the never

profit center. We were having the never say die attitude. No, we can do it.

Don't give up. We can do it.

Right there, man.

Yeah. Bro,

now that I think about it, right, honestly, on the hind side, right, the moment 18 March starts, right, I think the best, you know what the best thing you just shut it off, close it off, sell it off,

you make a loss, but it's okay.

Yeah. You don't bleed more.

Yeah. You don't bleed. You just cut your leg. You just stop the bleed, cut a

leg. You just stop the bleed, cut a loss, and that's it. I think we would have been in a much more better situation and we we would have avoided

making so much more bad decisions after that.

I sorry I got a question. Is the central kitchen still there for 10?

No, we sold it off.

Damn.

And the the the [ __ ] blessing in disguise was that we managed to sold the central kitchen off as a at a slight profit.

Oh, that's great. I mean okay but more money bleed on the way you know it's bleed along the way right I mean we we in the profit in terms of the money that we invested but not excluding the losses that we have suffered along the way

it's like it's like new equipment still everything also the accumulation and the setup everything right because it was meant for uh certified

wow certified oh my god dude this one is me so now you know why I had to lose

Yeah. So that th this period was exactly

Yeah. So that th this period was exactly the period when I started uh losing weight.

So it's stress.

So it comes Yeah. After all these stories, right? I was stressed. I was I

stories, right? I was stressed. I was I was just tired every single day. I was

just mentally mad. It was madness. I I honestly every

mad. It was madness. I I honestly every night that I got back to work, right? I

just do not know is or where to go where to wake up how like like what am I doing what why what am I like you know what what should I do tomorrow is is that phase of life that I

was going through I was just most of lost but of course when you are in front of your teams you have to be confident you know what let's do it you know but when you are back home that's when the

your depression the the [ __ ] comes in then everything comes in can I ask how how do you deal with all this stress load and you Do you like voice out anything or do you just keep

it all to yourself back then?

So that uh my first step to make myself to put myself in a better shape, right, was to lose weight.

Okay, that was the first thing that I think I did right honestly throughout the pandemic.

Okay, to lose some weight at my peak I was 90.

all the binge eating, all the stress eating, late nights, uh irregular uh irregular eating, irregular meals, [ __ ]

food, all this just contributed to my peak of 90. And then there comes to a point I was too stressed. I felt like nothing in my life that I could control.

And I decided that if there's one thing that I can control, I think it should be my diet and my lifestyle. So that's when I told myself, you know what, let's just do something for ourel, right? You have

been trying to do everything for your company, for your team.

Wow.

Let's do something for yourself. And

then I started with uh food.

Okay.

I I love my I mean as a typical Malaysian boy, Asian boy, I love my chaka. I love

my one. I love my chicken rice. I can

whack two full plates of chicken rice.

After that, I still feel feel like I'm I can still have I can still can go for the third one.

Absolutely me every time. Yeah. Yeah.

Me too.

I decided, okay, you know what? And I

honestly I love my McDonald's. I cheat

meal.

Yeah.

I gave myself a decision. Uh it's either you sacrifice your cups from all your chocolate, your chicken rice, your wamin, or you sacrifice McDonald's.

Yeah. So, I chose to sacrifice all my cups. or heavy.

cups. or heavy.

That's a good sacrifice. McDonald's

sacrifice is nothing, bro. Actually, I

think honestly uh Malaysian food is a lot higher calorie than you think than we think.

I think so, too. Yeah.

Yeah. Like you you you cut McDonald's, right, and you have Malaysian food, I think you might become fatter.

Yeah.

If you cut Malaysian food, you eat McDonald, you can lose weight.

Yeah. Actually, never mind the deep fried part of McDonald's, right?

Actually, McDonald's are fairly uh balanced. Yeah, bro. Actually, it is. I

balanced. Yeah, bro. Actually, it is. I

mean, you have a Big Mac, got your your fiber, you got the lettuce, your protein, you got your carb and everything.

As compared to Asian food is oily cups, overloaded.

It's mad.

Yeah. So, I went with that and I remove cups for even until today I rarely I mean I still eat minimal.

I eat minimal. Yeah. My but but my extreme was not having cups at all.

I don't eat rice. suffer from any headaches or you didn't suffer from any like you know no actually actually no wow you are godlike bro I guess it was a motivation I don't think it was a motivation it was a

discipline I I maybe there was some side effects but it I just felt like it was just part of the game it was just part of the process that I need to go through right uh after having after not treating my body right

for so many years it's time to How long did it take you for you to lose that amount bro I lost uh my first 15 kilo in maybe one and a

half years without exercise just focusing on food 100%. It's like actually I think a lot

100%. It's like actually I think a lot of people have this uh but I think it's slowly getting better. The misconception

that like exercise can help you lose weight.

Actually exercise doesn't help you lose weight. You could just walk the whole

weight. You could just walk the whole day is the same thing as going to the gym for like half an hour.

Yeah. It's literally what you put in.

What you put in. Food is the most most most important thing. Think of something that you do for three times a day.

Actually, no. Actually eating is the only thing that you do consistently three times a day.

100%. In fact, right? Like don't you think like when you go holiday or so, right? Like let's say you go China, go

right? Like let's say you go China, go Japan, go Europe, whatever. The thing

you look forward to is also eating.

It's not even like, oh, I want to see the museum. You see museum for how long?

the museum. You see museum for how long?

1 hour, 2 hours max. The food you probably eat like three times a day.

So the quality of food you put in like three times a day.

Pivotal.

It's so important. So I basically cut my cups. I lost my first 15 kilo in maybe

cups. I lost my first 15 kilo in maybe one one year and one and a half.

That's crazy, man.

And then without exercise, you have to buy so many new clothes, bro.

Your underwear had to change. Your jeans

have to change.

Yeah. Actually, thankfully, I kept my uh clothes from from from last time when I was in so I can still wear back.

Oh [ __ ] Okay. Nice. Nice. This guy.

Yeah. So, because I was always the person who reluctant to throw things.

You know what? I think something I think I still use one day. So, one day really came. That's another kind of motivation

came. That's another kind of motivation actually. I will be this.

actually. I will be this.

I will be back.

Yeah, bro.

So, and I actually after my first 15, right, I went vegetarian.

Oh, wow.

What the [ __ ] Yeah. I went vegetarian because I

Yeah. I went vegetarian because I reached uh plateau in my in my weight. I

I when I reached 15, I was stuck there and I I didn't like that. I wanted to go further.

Go further. I wanted to have another breakthrough. So, I went for vegetarian

breakthrough. So, I went for vegetarian and I was okay with vegetarian because I love my veggies.

Okay.

Yeah. I can have full plate of veggies, no problem. I can go to chapan store,

no problem. I can go to chapan store, just order three kinds of different veggies, I am full from that. I'm happy.

Yeah.

I mean, shouldn't you need at least some shouldn't you need at least a little bit of protein?

Yeah, probably.

So, I was vegetarian for a good half a year to maybe a year.

What the hell, bro? Half vegetarian,

bro. You monk, bro. You should go like what the [ __ ] I should go andate already.

Yeah. 6 months. Damn long, bro. Oh, I I did vegetarian for 3 days because of my great grandmother passed away, right? I

I sne I snuck out from from the from the funeral parlor and went to McDonald's.

Are you sure?

Oh [ __ ] man.

What a bad grandson.

It's okay. No one needs to know.

Well, you're lying.

Everybody knows you. So, you mention for six months.

Yeah. So, uh

even while while managing a grain Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And

I was perfectly fine and not until I had my medical checkup.

Oh, and my medical checkup uh my report told me that obviously my cholesterol everything was perfect. It was

nothing was wrong. Everything was pinch perfect actually. I just was

perfect actually. I just was and u but my protein I can't remember the term that they have.

Uh is it protein deficiency or there is basically in other words protein deficiency. Yeah, I was short of

protein deficiency. Yeah, I was short of protein and and now that I think back I I think I can feel it like for example my lips were cracking up.

Wow.

Yeah. And then I can feel I I now that now that I knew that I was protein deficit at that point in time. Yeah.

Then I started remembering that there was some uh sort of symptoms that I didn't pay that much attention. Yeah. On

the side. Yeah. So protein

uh intake was a problem for me back then. So that's when I thought you know

then. So that's when I thought you know what let's not be too extreme and let's you find a balance.

I need to find a balance. At the end of the day it's about balance right.

Was it difficult for you to go back onto eating like animal meat products for pork? Yes.

for pork? Yes.

Oh yeah. So now I Yeah. The smell is strong

yeah. So now I Yeah. The smell is strong for me. Back then I love my suyo my chu.

for me. Back then I love my suyo my chu.

But now unless it's really really good without the pork smell otherwise I I'm happy without my suyo. Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I should go vegetarian this I can stop eating pork bro. My god

the smell you cannot lamb. Lamb also the smell I'm assuming.

I'm not the biggest fan of lamb. So it

was still okay. But pork was the No, no, no no.

I can live without pork actually.

I can bro. Bro, actually I just want to say

bro. Bro, actually I just want to say right there was one time I had like this growth on my lip and it was so annoying. It's not like it's very bad you know but every time I chew food right I might turbite it.

Okay. That is so bloody painful. I

always like tear halfway eating. They're

like, "Wow, bro, food so good, man. You

crying." I'm like, "No, I bit my lip again." So my dad told me, "Just go get

again." So my dad told me, "Just go get lasered off." Went to this laser in I

lasered off." Went to this laser in I think uh Bangsa Manara UA or something like that. Okay.

like that. Okay.

And then the guy he he he sprayed something that freeze the the growth.

Oh, okay. And then he lasered it, right?

And when he lasered my lip, right, I smell bacon, you know, bro. He laser me. I smell like bacon

bro. He laser me. I smell like bacon right there. I just like, "Wow, I think

right there. I just like, "Wow, I think I cannot eat pork for a while, man."

Oh my lord.

Yeah, because I kept smelling like my own flesh that is being cooked, right?

And it smell like su, you know, like like pork. I just like w I think I can eat pork for I was off pork for like maybe a few months or so like and I smell like wow that's how I will smell

like if they cook me. I eat myself.

Yeah, I just quite traumatic. I I can understand I can I can advertise. Okay.

Yeah. And sometimes this the thing changes over time. So now I'm like back to it one.

So I basically Yeah. I went back to non-vegetarian. I focus a lot on uh

non-vegetarian. I focus a lot on uh chicken my proteins. I got back on track and but I still was very eager to lose my your remaining my remaining five or 10 kilo.

You were like what 75 at the time?

Yeah 75. My

75 is a fantastic weight for your height bro. You're like taller than me by like

bro. You're like taller than me by like maybe 2 three inches and like around there. Yeah. My very good.

around there. Yeah. My very good.

My idea was uh 65 to 70. That's what

My god. My guy. You want to fly or what?

Damn. 65.

I want to save fuel for my car.

Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. It makes sense.

Now it's the whole crisis. Okay.

Anyway, uh yeah. So, basically, uh I went back

uh yeah. So, basically, uh I went back on meat and that's when I started uh counting calories.

No calories. I started since day one actually. Oh, sure. Yeah. But I started

actually. Oh, sure. Yeah. But I started heavy on sports.

Oh, okay.

I I just felt like, you know, now that I think about it, everything happened for a reason because probably it was because I was vegetarian and my protein was uh deficit and then and because of that I had to go back to

normal diet and it's one way of God telling me you know, you know, you knew you're not doing right. You're doing it fine.

doing right. You're doing it fine.

You need to do something else. And then

that led me to playing sports for six times per week. Now

also before this you didn't even exercise at all. I was just solely just like walking and just like calorie walking sleeping.

Uh I mean when I was younger, younger uh primary school, secondary school, I love my football.

Oh [ __ ] Football.

Oh my god. Please.

That was Do you watch football?

I watch football, bro. MU fan, bro.

Oh, fantastic.

That's why I remember his name. I

wouldn't forget his name because I Your is your just a side track. Is your dad?

No.

No. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Your dad is not a United fan.

Nope. My dad.

I thought that's where the kid name came from.

My dad don't play any sports, right?

Yeah. But yeah, but because my mom uh she she always liked the name Chester, right?

If she if I had a sister, she would name her Chelsea. But I'm like, "Okay, thank

her Chelsea. But I'm like, "Okay, thank God she's not alive."

Wait, why why did you think is is Chester? Wait, is there is there a

Chester? Wait, is there is there a United legend named Chester? Manchester

Manchester.

Are you freaking kidding me?

Manchester.

Oh my god, bro. You were born to support your In your blood. It's in your blood.

Okay. Okay. So, sports six six times a week.

And now I'm doing almost five to six times a week. Insane.

Yeah. So, I love it. I love my my my my pickle ball. Tennis.

pickle ball. Tennis.

Yeah. My pickle ball, my tennis, my spin. I I do indoor indoor cycling.

spin. I I do indoor indoor cycling.

Oh, you do spin?

Yeah. Yeah,

bro. I damn scared to do spin, bro.

Why? I heard like you spin first time then you pee blood or some [ __ ] like that. Oh, that's extreme.

that. Oh, that's extreme.

What kind of Yeah, like so you can correct me if I'm wrong in the comment section. I know my friend is an instructor, her name is WJI. She was telling me if like let's

WJI. She was telling me if like let's say your first time you go spin and realistically your cardio is already quite good. So I I like to run.

quite good. So I I like to run.

Okay.

And you would you know during spin day, okay guys, it's time to push and then you push. So sometimes your body is

you push. So sometimes your body is tired but you still persevere and you go through it over push. You can end up in the hospital one, you know, you start peeing brown something.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Right. You pee

brown.

Thankfully, I haven't reached that point.

Reach that point yet. I I still can control. But

control. But you've heard of it, right?

I heard of it. Yeah. It's quite scary.

Can end up hospital, bro.

What the hell?

There are cases. Yeah. There were cases.

Yeah. Because you on the on the seat as well and and then because your your leg is locked into the to the to the pedal. Yeah.

So, it can get quite serious. Not to say that it's a dangerous spot, but if you don't do it right, I think it can be very Anything can be dangerous.

Yeah, anything can be dangerous.

Dennis, you can whack your doubles partner. So, man. Yeah.

partner. So, man. Yeah.

A week.

Uh, six days a week now. Uh, and I love it. I feel healthier. I feel lighter

it. I feel healthier. I feel lighter overall now that I compare myself to when I was at 90 kilo. I feel

How heavy are you now, bro?

Uh, 68. Dit,

bro.

[ __ ] But I got no muscles like you, bro. 68 is like my dream, bro. I've been

bro. 68 is like my dream, bro. I've been

trying to go past the the 70, right, for so long. I've been I was 85.

so long. I've been I was 85.

But your muscles are huge.

Oh, thanks, man. This is trying to bother me.

Actually, I feel like I look like a normal person.

You know, really? You think so?

You're above average, I think.

You think so?

Yeah, bro. Oh, your your your discipline is working, bro.

The gym has been very long, dude. You know, right before this, I was

dude. You know, right before this, I was like I I actually go to the gym very often. Even before this, I was going to

often. Even before this, I was going to gym for like almost 10 years really, okay?

You know, and I like to run. I'm I'm

generally an active person was just the fat was covering all of it. And only

after carry deficit, hey bro, you good gym. I'm like

gym. I'm like when I do less gym, I eat less then only people notice. Bro, that is my

people notice. Bro, that is my incentive.

Okay. Okay. Then uh you are you at 68 now. Are you going to aim for more? You

now. Are you going to aim for more? You

happy where you are?

I think for your height you're fantastic. Ideally is around there. 60

fantastic. Ideally is around there. 60

65.

Actually I'm put it this way. I think

weight to me now is it's just a number, right?

It's just a number. I'm not happy about my weight. Uh it's just an indicate

my weight. Uh it's just an indicate it's just an indicator for me now whether what should I do next, right? But

whether okay if I'm 69 or 70 after a trip after overseas trip it simply means that you need to work out more eat less eat better move more yeah and if you happen to go below that I feel that maybe my intake is uh not

enough for my my sport sessions right because obviously sport sessions quite high carb driven you got to have energy yeah and then right now my cups is still on the low side actually so so so I I

think I'm quite conscious of my intake now and calories come into play even bigger role now for How do you track your calories?

A grain micro calculator.

Do you type it down or do you like what?

Uh you eyeball.

Eyeball. Eyeball. I roughly know. I

roughly know. So like

Yeah. Sorry.

No, I was going to say I think we we all know roughly because Yeah, because we when we look at meals, we can roughly calculate estimate how much you need.

No, my brain is an [ __ ] Doesn't work for me.

What the brain you have?

My my brain is an [ __ ] But anyway, you can ch anything 100%. But you know what? HG doesn't

100%. But you know what? HG doesn't

doesn't calculate if your colleague come back from holiday bring back some snack you like oh I take like one I take two bro straight away silent killer killer

damn [ __ ] So uh roughly right roughly for me my my measure is always if it's if it fall into the unhealthy category it's always going to be 1,000 2005 yeah it's normal

just by default it's normal by default to me like I am going bumpa bro easy easily th00and 2005 depending on how many plates of rice you

have how many sambars you add on your sambar or you add on your fried chicken or you add on tempe whatever so th00and5 McDonald's Yeah.

1,000 to,0005 on average and a grain meal max you can go five maybe 500 on average way max on average on average on average 500. So as

long as you know that you are having a decent healthy unprocessed meal, you are safe to say that 500 is is there. And

then uh and then my Okay, there's this calculator [ __ ] like this.

No, it's on the grain. It's on our website again. We have this feature that

website again. We have this feature that you can calculate your daily intake.

Oh, daily.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have this simple calculator. I can't remember the

simple calculator. I can't remember the name of this uh formula right now.

Right. But I think honestly I think your calorie intake also is very dependent on what your goal is. Like yeah exactly.

Yeah. Before this also I'm very like adamant on it's very very strange for me you know my weight loss journey right when I was 85 to now is I used to calculate and must soon hit under the calorie limit per day.

Okay.

And then I was hitting a plateau when I was lifting weights. So, not not that this is a flex, but it's also a flex.

That's what you want to say. Okay. I

could I couldn't I couldn't do pull-ups when I was very overweight. And one day I saw this uh man in the gym. He did

weighted pull-ups.

So, he kept the 10 kg additional weights.

Oh, he kept the 10 kg in his leg, right?

The dumbbell start doing pull-ups. You

know, I'm like, "Wow, this guy damn strong, man." [ __ ]

strong, man." [ __ ] Yeah. Then I thought, I wonder when I'll

Yeah. Then I thought, I wonder when I'll ever do a pull-up. And you know what?

Notoriously amongst men, right? We all

like, "Oh, I think I can do two or three." But this is when you were from

three." But this is when you were from five.

But when you're an adult, can you do a pull-up? Quite hard, you know.

pull-up? Quite hard, you know.

Quite hard.

Yeah. So, I thought to myself, "Okay, I'm going to try." Bro, I tried. I fail.

Okay. I cannot do a pull-up. I just hang there there like can't even do anything.

I just can't do anything. Just hang

there.

Yeah. Then uh I slowly implemented like uh like negatives. So, I used to jump up and then like slowly go down, jump up, slow down. Today, I can do up to like 30

slow down. Today, I can do up to like 30 kg weighted pull-ups.

Wow.

Yeah. So I can do like two plates 25 plus a five.

And before this right I was stuck at the 20 kg mark for so long. So long bro. And

I was like there for like 6 months to 8 months. I I can never go beyond the 20

months. I I can never go beyond the 20 kg. Okay.

kg. Okay.

And then I was on a calorie deficit. So

I didn't even put two and two together you know. I was like thinking why I

you know. I was like thinking why I cannot I'm eating healthy. I'm eating

less. Then I my MJ told me bro you just increase your protein.

I like okay I just increase just eat more I I I took a break from calorie deficit bro straight can do so much stronger I'm like what is going on like your body is just

telling you like you are on survival mode obviously right you only can do to a certain limit so yeah yeah all these are the indications that your bodies are telling you right if you

you basically if you're feeling certain things in your lips or whatever or whether you are not you're not progressing it's simply means that you're not doing something right.

Yeah.

And most of the time is always your food.

Yeah.

Whether you have eaten the right food or you have not eaten not enough food or the timing of the food.

Yeah. Exactly.

Absolutely.

Revolve that actually. So, so eating is really really the most important thing and I have something to flex actually to do it man.

I feel losing weight is the one of the easiest thing to do.

Not for me.

Not for me. Okay.

Okay. Maybe maybe I also have to put in some some because back then when you were when I was in that before life or so I was quite at my heaviest. So I was I think 80.

You were 80.

80 BRO, BRO. WHAT?

BRO. WHAT?

I GUESS I WAS doing because of the late night the lifestyle.

But you don't look like that though.

Back then I was before I before I met you.

Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

But but we and it was because of the the bubble tea bro. Wow.

bro. Wow.

Hey, bro. But I don't think it's only bubble tea. I remember you guys were the

bubble tea. I remember you guys were the drinking group, you know, the heavy drinking group.

Yeah. So, after after we we we we I left that life, right? Then after that, I cut down on alcohol. I cut down on the bubble tea group transformation was it was quite straight because I realized

sugar and and and uh alcohol plays a very huge role in your your weight loss.

It does. It does.

Cutting it out really helps a lot. So

going back to what I said right losing weight is really one of the easiest thing to do if there's a disclaimer to it if you do it right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But knowing what is right I think that's what a lot of people do not know.

100%. And I think today or so you can see majority of males nowadays are confirmed.

Yeah. And I think it's really a mental thing. It's not really a physical thing.

thing. It's not really a physical thing.

It's a mental thing. You really need to do it right. You do it right. You see

results. You see results. you are

motivated to do more because that's just human nature, right?

We we we want progress progress. We want to see progress and

progress. We want to see progress and the moment we see progress, we feel happy, we feel confident, we we continue as compared to a journey where you do it the wrong way. You don't see results.

Ah, you know what? It's just life. I

mean, I I I'm the kind that I'm born, I eat what also fat one, I did what also cannot thin. So, you fall into this

cannot thin. So, you fall into this category which unfortunately there are a lot of people in this category 100%. And it's because they do it wrong.

100%. And it's because they do it wrong.

100%.

And doing it right is really again not difficult. You start off honestly my

difficult. You start off honestly my advice is really to start off knowing your daily intake which is which which I go back to the calculator that we have in our website where you can key in your

height your height your weight your age and then you uh and then you calculate your daily intake in terms of calorie. What

is the level that you need to maintain your weight per day?

I just did it. Oh [ __ ] You have a you wait bro you total or BMR is 06 BMR. Yeah. Yeah. BMR. So that's so that's a

Yeah. Yeah. BMR. So that's so that's a BMR metabolic rate.

Yes. That's the calculation. Honestly

it's not the to the dot kind of accuracy but it gives you a good guide to start off with right and then six for example.

So if your weight's your weight now Chester uh 73 74 probably same weight. What the [ __ ] So basically the easiest way to remember if you are whatever weight that you are you

key into it you give fus let's say thousand6 for your case if you want to go below 73 you just have to make sure your intake daily is less than thousand it's that simple it's that simple it's that simple

and then with chat chat gypty nowadays it's not it's not it's not hard at all I mean it's just an excuse if you are not in actually 100% 100% but I think the the the

challenge is also we we mentioned this a lot during the podcast I think education is something that a lot of people are not aware of when it comes to nutrition and also exercise like all of us. What's

BJK? BJK is either teacher them lazy.

Ah yes correct the teachers out there or teacher just say give you a ball go play whatever right. So exercise and

whatever right. So exercise and we want but you know in like if I'm not mistaken in the 50s or in the 60s in the US in order to graduate from high school you need to do 10 pull-ups right? you need

to do 30 push-ups as a guy.

Okay, you need to climb rope and all that one, you know. But I think somewhere along

you know. But I think somewhere along the way that kind of got lost especially in Asian culture.

Asian culture is kind of like study first, get a and then you're okay, you know.

So that's one and then also the nutrition aspect. You know how they have

nutrition aspect. You know how they have that triang the the pyramid and the pyramid bottom there is all carbohydrates.

Very very bad marketing I feel because technically the carbohydrates should be above and the protein and fiber should be at the bottom. That is the ratio that if anything it should be to ballet completely to

absolutely no not the fat the fat but I think like because of these two and two right and on top of that like remember we were talking about how McDonald's portions are so small and you're never full it keeps you uh

what's it word not hungry hungry actually I still hungry but whatever right so when you consume these sort of like things on a day-to-day basis you only scale higher in terms of mass but not in terms of quality

it's easier to see like your portion increase if you go to a uh you go order nasi going double which sounds incredible but yeah and four eggs oh my god

you don't know that you already burst your calories for the day cuz you binged right and on top of that the food satiety is not there because of one they're trying to like you were saying FNB cost measurement

they give you more carbs then number two also the processed foods are super high in calorie that's super small so you're not even full so you eat more for mass.

Yeah.

You going to be damn fat and you like I tried.

Yeah.

That's the hardest part.

Yeah.

And people are not educated so they just continue this like I think now only in the last three years finally I got sprite zero.

You think about it it's quite wild bro.

Now got 100 plus zero but before that bro if you are got sweet tooth that's sit your leg. Bye-bye.

Say bye-bye to your leg soon. Yeah,

actually I don't know whether you all go on Tik Tok or Instagram res, right?

Yeah.

Every time it's like the the the what's that called? The Ramadan,

that called? The Ramadan, bro. You can see the drinks they make.

bro. You can see the drinks they make.

Even even Ash is like, "Bro, you see they tape the condensed milk. They tape like eight or 10 bottles

milk. They tape like eight or 10 bottles together and they pour b there goes your leg."

And I was watching that. I can't feel my leg.

Where's my leg?

Yeah, it's quite wild, you know. And to

them, it's a norm.

Yeah.

It's like, yeah, I'm going to have one for lunch and then one for dinner.

That's the norm, you know. And like I think it's not just Malaysia. I just

want to caveat this. Chinese people

bubble tea. Also, I think I have one for lunch, one for tea break, and then after dinner.

My god, gone. Bro, you are you are just you have

gone. Bro, you are you are just you have to float. You cannot walk.

to float. You cannot walk.

They may think by lo putting it lesser sugar helps, but it doesn't really help.

Accumitively, it doesn't. Okay.

Yeah.

You become a Mish mascot. No leg one.

You become a snowman.

You become a snowman.

Yeah, bro. And I think the worst thing is that it's cheaper.

Yeah.

You know, like before this, right? Uh

what was the the Okay. The most famous last time is Cha, right? So it's the only thing in the market and then slowly like things came in like black black whale.

Yeah.

And then like uh Sinfu. So that's the premium one.

Now the Chinese market enter right. Two

three ringit. Yeah. Bro,

my god, it's getting cheaper to get your leg get trouble.

So, I think it's so difficult for people.

Yeah, it is. It is. It is.

But, and I don't know whether this is just for you. You said it's easy for me.

It is so damn difficult to lose weight because, right, I have a sweet tooth. I

love it, bro. I I tell you until today, right? Every time I just came back from

right? Every time I just came back from Philippines, I told you, right?

Yeah. So I met a few Filipino event event planners. We all got together

event planners. We all got together introduced. She also family business,

introduced. She also family business, you know. So okay

you know. So okay must show face.

What the [ __ ] I think that night like 4,000 calories, bro. Easily, bro. Easily 4,000 calories.

bro. Easily, bro. Easily 4,000 calories.

They cook the I went to a restaurant and then they had uh you know C6. Are you

familiar with Filipino food?

No. No.

So uh Filipino food is basically if Malay people can eat pork.

Oh, okay.

Basically, right? Don't you think?

Yes.

Yeah. So, they were colonized by the Americans and colonized by Spanish. So,

pork is like a staple.

Okay.

Bro, that just to tell you what is the dish. Okay. The seasick.

dish. Okay. The seasick.

I know it's always sweet. Philippines

food is always actually it's a chum chum. The savory

stuff is sweet, salty, sour.

Okay.

But the sweet is really like right.

Yeah.

Next level sweet.

So, for one of the dishes, I think they ordered like eight.

And I don't regret it. I loved it. I

love the meal. It's fantastic. Okay. And

it was an excuse for me to finish. But

they fried the, you know, chia.

Yeah.

They fried the chia three times together with liver, pork liver.

And plus oil.

Oh, I can feel my heart attack already.

Yeah, bro. And then it's right with chili and vinegar and mayonnaise.

Yeah. I remember some more.

Yeah. I remember Uncle Don used to sell that as well.

Oh, is it?

Yeah.

Wow. This is fantastic, bro. So it you you I just kept going and going and going and then I just like bro I don't regret but I can feel it. I can feel it.

Especially the desserts it's just like condensed milk. It's the same thing as

condensed milk. It's the same thing as Malay desserts actually.

Did you get the ube?

Yeah, I did bro. I I got halo halo also with ube ice cream. So like I think nowadays right the accessibility the access to this type of food is very easy compared to healthy food.

Honestly I have a sweet tooth also. I

love my ice creams. Oh bro. Seriously, I love my ice creams.

Oh bro. Seriously, I love my ice creams. Uh, and uh, but I think to me I I would still say that is losing weight is easier because Wow, bro.

I'm You are not disciplined enough.

Meaning, oh, bro.

I mean, it's either you are motivated or you are disciplined, right? You need to have both at least one.

Yeah, I I can say I'm disciplined but not for food, bro. I need to I need to not discipline.

bro. I need to I need to not discipline.

I need to throw away food in my fridge, right? then only I can like be on track

right? then only I can like be on track when you know or I need to cook the food first I feel like my inner Chinese is like don't waste food you cook but I tell you what if the temptation is there

what damn hard bro but but for me how I do it right for example if I kn I have some ice cream craving if the weather is hot for that day right I I'll still have my ice creams but I will constantly skip a meal

just for that I have to discipline yes I may be hungry but I will just get some fruits or get some healthier options to make me make me feel vegetables or whatever.

Vegetables or just cucumber. I can just binge on it.

Just a cucumber.

Cucumber. I can have two.

You can have two in one go. Seriously.

I My god. The the only way is is like you have to contra.

Yeah, you have to contra. There's either

you do sports.

You do some But sports is not enough, bro.

Yeah, sports not enough. You have to contra.

Yeah, you have to contra. Mu is still the fastest the better the fastest most efficient way to contra.

Oh my god.

So I have to be disciplined, bro.

Yeah. Cannot. But it was my first time in Philippines also. So first time then the event partner asked. So my line is quite difficult. It's sort of like a

quite difficult. It's sort of like a mixture between so it's a family business. I need to show face. I also

business. I need to show face. I also

need to like make sure the relationship with my suppliers, my partners, my family, everybody's you know on good terms. So the balance is quite challenging. It's an excuse for sure.

challenging. It's an excuse for sure.

But but honestly once in a while it won't harm you. You see like I think that's

harm you. You see like I think that's the problem with a lot of people as well. Like what the moment there is one

well. Like what the moment there is one day that I continue I just you know what I today I 4K tomorrow I have no point my my diet plan gone already I just I just g but

actually it's like one day of 4K and if you do one one day of full of exercise it won't suddenly make you a yeah you you excess one full day you won't get six pack you won't get six pack exactly and you eat for one full day it won't make you a

fatty boom boom or so yeah unless you already are so it's about cons yeah so unless I mean it's all about consistency Right. Consistency in if you

consistency Right. Consistency in if you consistently eating 4K for every day, of course.

Yeah.

And if you consistently do sports for the whole day, of course, you will see results. But it's about the

results. But it's about the consistency you see. So, so one day cheat day, two days is really fine. It's

okay. But don't don't make it as as an excuse.

You know what? Yesterday 4K already, tomorrow it's okay. Whatever.

The the the the term once in a while.

So, I think it's a problem. You know,

like a lot of Malaysians are especially like, you know, you're working already, right?

You are on a diet.

Yeah.

Or you're just trying to count your calories. The real challenge is your

calories. The real challenge is your colleague say, "Hey, bro, come."

Then you're like, "Hey, bro. No, I

cannot today. Tonight I got a very important dinner and I eat a lot."

Once in a while, once in a while, [ __ ] throw my phone at the sing [ __ ] once in a while. Ch by is just the pure pressure. Hey, why you don't eat us? That

eat us? That how ready, right? I don't want to come ready. This one is so difficult.

ready. This one is so difficult.

You feel bad. You feel like ah whatever.

Let me just go there and just like see what what I can order.

Then you go back, go toilet, which I don't encourage. It's a joke.

It's a joke. Yeah, just jokes. Okay.

Please.

Yeah. Uh when you scale, you go back to a grain. Okay. It's already 1 p.m. by

a grain. Okay. It's already 1 p.m. by

the way.

So I know you need to I just want to extend to 1:30.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So when you when you scaled when uh you had to scale down sorry during the pandemic everything how how did you scale down can you can you navigate us through this process how you scale down

you sold your central your central kitchen for 10 but when did you sell it okay the time came yeah actually right before that right uh we knew that

okay I think I think going back to central kitchen having our at our pig eight stores right and even during the pandemic we were expanding never say die attitude which now I think

back it wasn't the best decision to make up to what year this was uh 2022 god damn that's a solid three year of persistence

two three I think two years two years 2020 to 2022 that's the one and a half years to two years where we really not

uh we didn't close any stores but we still expanded your private through like how how many MC it was it was crazy like it was just crazy now that I think back is just

being naive honestly and okay just maybe that first six months of MCO how was it like how how do you all like go through planning firstly we knew that we need money yeah obviously

yeah and we actually we were lucky enough to have one of our friends who supported us her name is Een so she she came in as a sort of like a friend of us investor so to really fund us through the pandemic

wow God bless her so I know right I know right without her I don't think we are we are anywhere close to where we are now we would have been gone in dust we would have been dusted

how you worked with her before what's the relationship we have within she is actually a close friend of our one of our co-founder yeah so they we knew each other we met each other before

I think in the UK all of us we graduated from the UK and then we met each other there uh and then actually een was born in Alistar from the same hometown as I do.

Oh [ __ ] you're from Alustar.

Yeah, I'm from Alistar.

God damn, son.

Yeah, you are. Are you not?

No. Like every time I find out people are from such a far away place like wow you all really bro you know right people think about this like it's so easy. Oh

yeah I'm from actually it takes a lot of like courage to like start a life in a different city. So

right it's like quite courageous bro. If

you ask me right hey John would you want to move to another? I'm like

maybe not maybe not maybe not you know just study. Okay. You

know, but to start your career, your life is quite is tough.

It was a journey. Yeah. And then, yeah, basically, uh, so she came in as an investor. She funded us through, burned

investor. She funded us through, burned through all her money.

[ __ ] Uh, shout out to Alen, man.

Shout out to Alen. Seriously.

Okay.

Uh, yeah. Thankfully, it was her uh not only supported us financially, but she actually joined our mansion team as well.

Mhm. and uh she she helped us through the pandemic. We

the pandemic. We we launched so many initiatives throughout the pandemic. I think the most notable one was uh our one for one uh campaign.

One for one for one just a meal you give a meal to.

Yeah, exactly. So basically if you don't mind the story basically it started off with one of our regular customers uh obviously during the pandemic the family members I think it was a sister or the

brother was working in the hospital uh government hospital working tirelessly crazy I think the first yeah the first

phase of the MCO was like without uh the what do you call that the vaccination so it was that scary that you can be yeah you can catch yeah you get and die, right? So, so that

was the scariest part. Overwhelmed

hospitals, every single hospitals, every doctors, nurses work like crazy.

So, this Yeah. All the front lines are basically. So, this

basically. So, this regular customer of ours wanted to send me to the brother or sister and the team just to give them a mental support.

Y came to us because obviously that time was the what they call a PKP. You cannot travel, right? So only FnBs or like the

right? So only FnBs or like the grab deliver all this with a letter you can travel. So they came to us can you

can travel. So they came to us can you send food to them. Okay, we did that. Uh

they firstly sent like 2030 where everything went smoothly and then this gave us an idea. Why not? Right? Because

back then during that period we like I said 80% of our sales were wiped off. We

were pretty much nothing to do. You know our staff also nothing to do. So we were we we had this idea where you know what let's just do something also where we

can keep our staff occupied. We can have more reasons to uh promote also.

We can promote. Yeah. Basically, we took that opportunity to promote our brand and you know what to keep our staff occupied since we didn't you all didn't scale down what?

Yeah, we didn't scale down. We haven't

reached that part. We didn't fire any one of uh our team.

That's mad. That's madness, bro.

Yeah. And then

uh you know what? Let's match all the donations that we are going to receive from the public. You donate one meal, I donate one meal. And then fast forward, right? this campaign it was I think it

right? this campaign it was I think it was one of the most successful marketing campaign that we have run uh to date I think we have raised more than 200,000

damn bro that's crazy man yeah we have sent we have sent so many meals to the front liners during that period all I think

I I can't exactly remember the number of hospitals and healthcare places that we have sent me to but they are they pretty much Kang Kang Valley we pretty much have covered at least once.

Wow.

Most notably uh Sunulo at hospital I think we sent to HKL also we sent meals to them so many times.

Yeah. And

yeah it became it was one of our reason that maybe our branding was strong strong today as well. It was one of the reason I think I think a lot of people know us from that campaign because at

that point in time I think a lot of people they were uh those who have extras they wanted to do something for the front liners as well. So they came I think if you think

well. So they came I think if you think back right there weren't uh sort of like a medium for them to really do that to show their support to the front liners.

I think we were one of them although but we we were still very very small in terms of the skill that we do because at the end of day we are still a very small restaurant back then trying to do something different and then but I think

we did well throughout I I it's something that I'm quite proud of as well that we managed to support uh the front liners and in fact I think this program we call it a grain for good

we have rebranded it already uh it's still running until today where basically public can anyone can just go to our website and if they feel like they want to offer some help to the

special kids home or your old fox homes or any handicap homes. Uh we actually take donation in and then we will send meals to to this uh charity places actually. It's

so noble, bro.

We still do until today.

That is like such a great way to to basically channel people can donate without I think it's a good effort to give back to the community and donating good meals to them. I think

it's healthy good meals, good portions or more. Yeah,

or more. Yeah, I just want to emphasize the portion and quality bro protein.

Yeah, because honestly what we think is that uh I think one of our belief is that uh healthy eating is it should be for everyone.

It's not only for the people who can afford it, right? Everyone should be able to uh everyone deserve it. Basically, put

it this way. Everyone deserves to have access to good food.

Yeah. And and especially the handicapped, the marginalized group, right? I mean, more so that they need

right? I mean, more so that they need better meals.

They they need better nutrition.

Better nutrition, right? Because

obviously they are not eating enough food and probably eating not so good quality, not so good quality food because they are not they're not they're not as capable, right? So not

capable means your job is probably not I mean not all obviously but more so that they need good food. You

see? So so we felt that we have to do our part. Damn.

our part. Damn.

So, anyone until today, we still run it.

It's something that I'm It's one of uh Yeah, like I said, want something that I'll link the thing in the description.

I'll pin the comment also if you want to donate a meal to someone. I think that's such a a great way to to like increase your karma points also.

Serious man, like you know, I just want to say it's very difficult for people to spend time.

It's easier to spend money. Yeah,

spending time is I think some of something that we never really talk about like you coming all the way here to spend time to tell people about your story is something that you cannot get back you know money you can spend I can

buy you a coffee I can buy you a meal I can like buy you a trip to Japan whatever you can earn back the money when confirm one that's why money is not really an issue the same currency that we all have and we all share that we can spend and can never get back

is time that's the most precious thing you can give to someone but nowadays I think people don't have time so if you want to donate a meal, you just click on the link. You want to increase your karma points, you want to

do good for someone, just I think it's a great way to do it.

I think you I think this is a very very good point actually. I think it it reminds me of what uh I'm doing to myself right now. The reason that I'm

doing what I'm doing in terms of running a grain and treating myself, right, I'm actually for my own lifestyle, right? I'm

investing for a good time in the future.

100%.

Yeah. I'm I'm eating well. I'm I'm doing my sports.

Yeah.

So that in the future, 10 years, 20 years down the road, I can have a slightly less suffering time in terms of having people to help you wipe your ass or

whatever.

My ass, me to shower, have to I cannot I go to I go traveling. I I need my my kids or whatever to help me with my luggages. I cannot do sport quality

luggages. I cannot do sport quality life.

Yeah. I'm investing now for that. And

many people don't see that. You know,

you put it quite right. Basically, time

is something that is actually the only thing that you cannot get back.

You cannot pay any amount.

Yeah.

To get back one more minute. There's no

way. There's like no other. You cannot

extend. You cannot freeze time. You

cannot go back in time.

Yeah.

That's it.

Just take takes time for granted. Yeah.

So, so, so, so, similarly to to to why I'm running a grain, one of the biggest reason that I'm very passionate in doing what I'm doing right right now because I

feel that now that I I'm in the better mindset than I was last time and and the fact is I have managed to do it. I managed to turn around my weight.

it. I managed to turn around my weight.

I managed to come from a person who don't really exercise to someone who do exercise six times, seven times uh per week.

If I can do it, anyone else can do it.

And my role now is to inspire people and to motivate people to be like me because I'm just an ordinary person. I

just I'm not someone I who is very privileged or whatever. I I came from I'm I'm the same as all of you. I mean I came from Alostar. I just want my life

to be better and that's all. I I

obviously Yes. You all of us have dreams, right? We want to be

dreams, right? We want to be multi-millionaires. We want to right or

multi-millionaires. We want to right or have many houses or whatever, but my ultimate goal now is really to inspire more people. I think that's what

makes me happy now. Seriously, it's not about how much money I make or how what's the P&L like for my company. It's really

about how many people that I can inspire to be like me. And

you are them giving, bro.

That's the clip.

You're them giving, bro.

That's the clip, bro.

I cannot say that that about myself. I'm

quite selfish. I'm quite selfish about my time. I'm quite selfish about my my

my time. I'm quite selfish about my my what I do now. I have to be a dick sometimes. That's it. I'll be something

sometimes. That's it. I'll be something real. Yeah. I don't

real. Yeah. I don't

I mean nothing wrong with that. Nothing

wrong with that.

But I think uh it's it's you you're so giving. Like the fact that you want to

giving. Like the fact that you want to give, you want to inspire. I for me I'm a selfish person. I do this podcast so I can learn. If I ask you, hey bro, you

can learn. If I ask you, hey bro, you want to m together you be like this guy trying to sell me insurance? This guy

calling me to I do this podcast so I can learn from someone. I put it up there so that people can learn also. But in the end ultimately if they going to help with the Patreon, fantastic. If I get a brand deal like the marriage chat, I fantastic. It's a bonus to me. But I

fantastic. It's a bonus to me. But I

like to learn from people.

It's your avenue to shout out what you want to shout out. So to me, I'm in a way I will say no to many things because I feel like no, my my time is limited now.

When I was younger, I I was a yes man, bro.

I'll do everything.

Everything.

Yeah.

But now I'm like if I go there, I come back, I spend time there, not worth it. My sleep is important.

Like I I choose a lot of things for myself now.

Oh, there's nothing wrong with that. I

think it's fine. I think everyone is different and and and I feel that giving is my calling, bro.

I really think so.

You're a saint.

You're a saint. But I suppose you're also like, you know, you got a good good like group of friends and good group of partners that do this. Eene and all.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The they are the best. I I cannot ask for more. Honestly,

best. I I cannot ask for more. Honestly,

I don't think we will ever be close to where we are now without every single one of them. Seriously, I I love them.

Yeah. Although

although although of course there are there are some uh disagreements throughout the pandemic especially during the pandemic there were a lot of disagreements about things and and everyone is different

everyone has different mindset and different characters. Yeah. And I

different characters. Yeah. And I

correct and I learned to appreciate everyone is different, right? I I I came from a person where

right? I I I came from a person where I'm I always must be right.

Oh [ __ ] Yeah. I'm the kind of person. Yeah. I I

Yeah. I'm the kind of person. Yeah. I I

must be right. I I I will I will argue my way to to be the right one. But along

the way with all my partners, I think I learned that sometimes it's okay to you agree to disagree. Yeah. Right. I think it's

disagree. Yeah. Right. I think it's really fine is is is so what? Right. I mean, you don't think

so what? Right. I mean, you don't think like I do and I don't think like you do.

So what do you feel like you learned this in your 30s?

Yeah, bro. You know what I learned in my 30s?

bro. You know what I learned in my 30s?

I learned that I was quite dick in my 20s.

Not too late, bro. Not too late to realize.

No, no, no. Let me just let me just story, right? So, uh back in my late

story, right? So, uh back in my late 20s, I was quite addict No, actually, maybe even my early 30s. I don't know.

Right. So, I went to Japan with my wife, right? And then she pulled her back. And

right? And then she pulled her back. And

then I was like, cuz you didn't do yoga, you didn't exercise, why you like what you expect?

I mean, it's sooner or later, right?

So you were that straight, right?

Yeah. A damn a damn dick dick basically.

Yeah. 100% I was a dick, man. So I after that, I told you my my my weekly what? I I go to the gym five times a week. I do yoga once a week. I run once a week. Yeah.

Right. And if I cannot make it, I'll guarantee the next day. Right.

So, uh I think it was late last year. I

put my bag.

Okay. Then my wife was so nice.

Put the heat patch every night. You

know, go bring water for me. Whatever.

Exactly what you didn't do to her.

Oh yeah. I was just a [ __ ] dick. I

was like, I can help you put the hip hash, but I'm just saying that you got to change your lifestyle. Whatever. I'm

coming from a place of authority. Right.

After I pulled my back, I'm like, "It's quite a dick." Then she was like, "Now you know, so just don't be a dick." I mean, I I I

I learned to empathize a lot. In my 30s, you know, I learned to say like, "You know what? Doesn't really matter. You

know what? Doesn't really matter. You

just uh no matter what you do sometimes in life, right, you're going to be humbled whether you like it or not. You

work out [ __ ] six, seven times a week. You do whatever you want. You eat

week. You do whatever you want. You eat

healthy and all that's nice. Life just

deals you [ __ ] So just try to be nice.

That's that's what I learned in my in my 30s."

30s." Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

And you know I I find it right so so sad, right? That I'm only like this to

sad, right? That I'm only like this to people that I'm very close with.

Okay.

But then strangers are that empathetic.

I'm like, "Hey, maybe the guy had a bad day." All that. My wife would look at me

day." All that. My wife would look at me like the [ __ ] empathy you have for other people. This reminds me of pickle ball.

people. This reminds me of pickle ball.

You know, like pickle ball. When you

play with your good friend or you play with your wife, right? If your wife make a mistake, you like, "Oh, what the hell?

Why you play like that? Why you hit the ball like that?" As compared to if you play with a stranger, your partner, they whack some [ __ ] shot. Hey, it's okay.

It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's

okay. It's okay. It's normal. I also

play like that. Then when you play with your wife, why you play like that? I

never do like things like that. I tell I teach you like that, man.

You're so critical. You know,

[ __ ] I thought I was the only one, man.

You know, we are always more critical to people we who we are close with who we probably take too much granted.

Yeah. 100%, man.

But humbling year for me. I told you I pull my uh hip and all that.

Yeah.

After she was like, "No, lie." you know, you got to do this, you got to do that, you know.

Yeah. She always thinks I'm too extreme.

Do you think I'm extreme?

Oh, sometimes like I don't know whether sometimes I always think like, no, I think this is normal. Then she's like, no, this is not normal. You're too

extreme. You don't really like care about what other people think and all that. Then after that, now like I grow

that. Then after that, now like I grow older. I'm like, wow,

older. I'm like, wow, I kind of understand. Okay.

Uh I know that I want to wrap up the podcast also because I need to head back soon.

Yeah, I also I align my timing with you 130.

But uh couple more questions. How did when did you scale down and when did you realize it was time to scale down?

Uh when we were left with three to six months of cash runway.

Holy [ __ ] hell.

Yeah, that was when we realized this [ __ ] is real is you know we may we can live in our denial but the fact is we may not have enough money to run

the company.

That's when we started to you know what let's start with uh like it or not whether you agree how many of us there were amount of partners there were four of us whether how many agree or how many

disagree we have to do it that was you cut off the cancer already we have to cut our leg we have to do it you we have to do it there's no other choice either it's either we are okay with you know what let's just burn let's just

take it as our money is burnt we are not going to recover it and we are okay with it and we call it a day it's either that or if you still want to have a chance to make a you make a survival make a

rebound it's about cutting those stores that are not profitable that's number one cutting off uh stores that were loss making obviously that's the first to go

stores that were neither here nor there breaking even go stores that were coming near to tenency agreements finishing wow and if you if you are not sure that this

will be a guaranteed profit making store. Bye-bye.

store. Bye-bye.

Wow, that's quite basically just total. Yeah, basically

left with stores that have good uh good crowd, good money and tenency wise we have uh we have we we have a we have a a fair

amount of time to still make money to continue. Yeah. So, so

that's that. And now that I think about it, right, and some of the friends, some of my friends, they ask me, okay, actually when Yeah. The question they ask yourself, when is the good time to

to close your restaurant? To me,

uh, as brutal as it may sound, the moment that you have that feeling that you should close down a restaurant, it should be done yesterday.

Yeah. If the thought of closing down a restaurant, this is not going to work run through your mind today, you should have done it yesterday. You should just call it a day because anything that

happened after that is just going to be fire. I think you are just going to,

fire. I think you are just going to, you know what, I'm not going to give up. I'm not, you know, is the Asian never say die attitude. You know what? I can make it.

attitude. You know what? I can make it.

I can turn this around. chances are the percentages not to say that you may not make it but the chances of returning if you I don't have statistics but I'm sure

the statistics is pretty [ __ ] where maybe 90% of the people who stay who have that thought of closing a restaurant and decided to go through it and turn things around I think 90%

probably fail you know I just want to be honest I think uh honestly FnB like I've mentioned before the podcast it's one the most brutal industries to be in

you know I you wake up late you you have to wake up [ __ ] early to go to the restaurant you got ta you got to get ready for customers come in you got to prepare for dinner service you got to clean at the end bro it's a it's a lot to me it's a

lot okay your life is just dedicated to this you know and like I think honestly right if people adopt that mentality of closing restaurant I

think 90% should close already yeah I think so yeah like Like honestly right don't you think in your own neighborhood this is for you this is for you this is for people who are listening this for people who are watching

you drive through your neighborhood just one row of restaurants let's say there five or six out of that whole row do you think you've ever been in all of them I doubt it I doubt it

in fact we wrest I was like hey all this new I don't think I'll try it yeah yeah that's that's how many FnB

premises are there and I doubt I doubt right that like more than 50% are successful.

Yeah.

Or how however you want to deem successful profitable. I don't even

successful profitable. I don't even think or staying afloat.

Yeah. I I don't even think 50% is profitable.

I really don't think so. I really think I really think majority are loss loss every every month at a loss.

And they and many of them are probably in the green basically make money because they probably don't draw a salary and they actively work in the business. Yeah.

business. Yeah.

The most scariest part.

Scary part.

Yeah. Because you feel hey when I look at the numbers I I I make money. But if

I you pay yourself market rate or you pay yourself or opportunity cost that you if you are not working here, you would have worked in some other corporates. You pay yourself that and

corporates. You pay yourself that and then you probably lost money and and and I think so many people are in this category and it's it's quite sad actually.

It is. The only thing that's FnB I think that's earning money is probably T fun and that's lucky if like you manage to sell out like maybe 70% or 60% of your food that day and then you hopefully don't need to sell it like 50% off at

the end of the day was one and number two I think if you are a hawker store that has a very steady uh community that you already have adopted from more than 10 years then people consistently go

already then maybe that's the odd exception it's quite I don't even think some yeah it's it's it's quite brutal and and and and I think it's not good for the market

as well to have so many players and and all these players. I mean a lot of them they stay through it not because they want to turn it around but because you see nowadays people whenever people

have extra money they feel like they want to go into FnB, right? They feel

like this is a good industry to go in and they just whack money into it and then they just you know what I'm stuck with it already.

Yeah. They just continue doing it and whether it turn out it turns out well or turn out bad. I'll just leave it there and then you're back into the corner.

Yeah. And then it's not good. It's not

nice at all. I mean, and then this and then and then what these brands will do, they will throw prices. They will do promos and then people like us who genuinely want to make a living out of

the business, we suffer because right this these guys are like throwing promos. Obviously, I mean, no one will

promos. Obviously, I mean, no one will say no to promos, right? I mean, they will be attracted.

Yeah. price conscious. In Malaysia, we are still very price conscious for for for for obvious reasons and we suffer on the we are on the losing end, right? And then there are so many brands who throw prices and

I can tell you this is not just FNB. I

do event management, okay? Every time

before COVID, right? Event management,

it's like you have your your very experienced people. So my company has

experienced people. So my company has been around for 30 plus years already, right?

It's a family business. My mom, her her mom all runs it for a long time already, right? In the 2018 2019, suddenly

right? In the 2018 2019, suddenly everybody want do event management.

Okay. Yeah.

Then the big MNC's love it. You know

why? Because they throw price. Some bro

I've seen event company do for free bro.

They do for free bro. They do the event for free. The MNC. Wow. Just the cost

for free. The MNC. Wow. Just the cost price of this only. Okay. Do it. Then

after that right quality [ __ ] then they default to another further than true price and then their brand just keep going down the dock [ __ ] lane right

but for us right we tahan through co after co so many people eliminated already then the true players remain now event management is seen as premium again it has to go through a cycle one I

think FNB is going through the same cycle it's called the they call it the capitalist player right it's like how juice coffee and mish ends up in the basamalam right in baza competing with the auntie uncles right yeah so it's

exactly for them as long as I don't lose a lot of money it's fine but for for the pi machi who they die confirm die they are there to earn a living you see

so I mean we can probably have a separate topic on this but it's a whether we agree the way we think capitalist is good or not I think is h but that one is brutal bro because

Chinese companies like mish and all that even lucky l Yeah. No, no. Lucky one. H

lucky cup.

Oh [ __ ] That one.

The red color one under M. Bro, that one they throw price until like it's they guaranteed certified 100% losing money but they are lossle leading.

That is that one I think is just another whole you separate big topic to capitalist play. It's called a

capitalist play. It's called a capitalist play. So So they are there to

capitalist play. So So they are there to fight the market. They just want to punish the market. They just want their brand to stay. That's it.

Yeah.

Brutal.

We have another about five minutes more left. So maybe we can end with a more

left. So maybe we can end with a more positive note.

Yeah, I think we should.

It's getting depressing.

For me, what I can think of is right now is like, you know, you mentioned about uh new new players coming in, you know, being an entrepreneur and all.

How how what would you give an advice to to any potential, you know, inspire inspired uh uh young entrepreneurs who want to venture into FnB market.

I always love this question because I number one, I I'm honestly no one to give advice.

Yeah. But number two, no I don't want to give advice. Number two is I feel like

give advice. Number two is I feel like if those people who need advice really shouldn't come into FNB really I I I really think so because back then how I how I ended up in FnB I

didn't have any advice to say.

Yeah. Exactly. and and and and if you are look seeking for advice okay if I were to come up with one I

think is to uh bro I'm speechless I'm speechless honestly I do not know

honest advice to give I mean yes I can come up with some cliche oh don't give uh n [ __ ] that [ __ ] you got to be real I can't honestly I speechless when I when it comes I can tell you this. I want to

add on to what you know I asked the same advice. Okay. To a FnB fellow or so.

advice. Okay. To a FnB fellow or so.

All right.

Yeah.

FNB fer he said that you need to find a niche.

Yeah.

Find a gap.

Find a something that you know that the market doesn't have.

What market wants and the market the market doesn't have at the moment.

But even that advice this was uh before COVID or during COVID if I'm not mistaken. That advice I can tell you

mistaken. That advice I can tell you does not apply today. You find a niche, find a gap.

First of all, right in FnB, do you have resilience or not?

That's the real question you should ask yourself. You know, like resilience for

yourself. You know, like resilience for your money, can you see your money dwindling every day?

Oh, can you can you ask yourself if your bank account got 100K, slowly become 90K, 80K after one year, you got 20K, you can not if you don't resist, bro, [ __ ] it.

Forget about it. Just

just chill. Chill, daddy. You know,

daddy, chill. Okay. The second thing is if you're not willing to rob yourself and do dirty [ __ ] right? Don't do it.

Don't do it. You go and try to work in a hotel first, go in a hotel, go work in a restaurant. That's my advice. If you

restaurant. That's my advice. If you

want to start FnB, go work in a restaurant. Just go work first. If you

restaurant. Just go work first. If you

can tan working there for one year, then you you have my blessing. You like you know what you

my blessing. You like you know what you you know what it's like. Bro, you think it's like glamorous to walk into a beautiful cafe and then you get to say that I own this

cafe. I serve good coffee. I serve

cafe. I serve good coffee. I serve

cakes. I serve [ __ ] pastries, brother. It's about unclogging the

brother. It's about unclogging the toilet. Yeah.

toilet. Yeah.

At 10 p.m. at the end of day, it's about your customer vomited and then they say it's your problem because it's food poisoning. Can you deal with that? I doubt

that? I doubt people have the capacity to deal with that alone. If you have fantastic

that alone. If you have fantastic partners, sure. But what if you get into

partners, sure. But what if you get into argument? There's so many negatives to

argument? There's so many negatives to this, you know.

So even if you find that gap, you find that niche, right?

Ask yourself, you got resilience and have you done it before? If you have not done it before, forget about it. If you

don't have resilience, forget about it.

These two I think is something that I work in events also, right? You think

events is a beautiful thing. Like you go in there, you wear a suit and make money. Yeah. You tell people what to do,

money. Yeah. You tell people what to do, [ __ ] like that. Bro, I tell you, go one time, right? The [ __ ] long kang

time, right? The [ __ ] long kang stuck bro.

Then I'm wearing my [ __ ] baju.

The client's like, I need to go out there, unclock the long kang, bro.

Do it, man.

I [ __ ] take off my pants. I take off my white shirt. I [ __ ] just got unclock the long. That's the [ __ ] reality, bro. You know what's the worst

reality, bro. You know what's the worst part? The worst part is you got to wash

part? The worst part is you got to wash up.

Yeah.

Put it back on the clothes and then pretend like nothing happened.

Yeah.

Can you do that? I doubt people can do that. People working in your office,

that. People working in your office, white collar job, right? You just take orders from your boss and you complain.

My guy, you you don't know what you don't know what it's like to be under the hot sun. You don't know what it's like.

Most people don't know.

Yeah.

So hard to give advice.

Yeah.

It's damn hard. So honestly I I I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm struggling to give a good advice, but I think if I were to have a very generic

one, it's going to be love what you do.

Love what you do.

You he better because uh and you if you do not love what you do,

it's find ways to love it.

I can I can add on to that. I can add on to what you say. Okay. Love what you do doesn't mean exactly love uh for example example if you really really love teaching people.

Yeah.

Like you find joy like you were saying you love uh you love giving.

Yeah.

That is something that you love.

And if you love giving like good service, if you love uh giving back to the community, Yeah.

you should really just focus on that [ __ ] Yeah, that is your your your north staring you could say your your your deep thoughts of what you need to aim for.

Yeah, that's that's all I can I can add on to that.

Find your callings and and identify your callings and and and and find ways to love it. I think it's really that

love it. I think it's really that and you got to remember that when you have to you have to remember that no matter what happens whether if you need to clear up the clo toilet or you need to do whatever [ __ ] check the Google review and then

somebody made an unreasonable review about your restaurant and then you have to attend to it and then and then you will you will still love it without uh questioning without questioning yourself I think

yeah I think it's the best yeah dude thank you so much for coming on the podcast no problem I hope was it a chill session for you was it was question I love That's how that's how we roll, man.

Yeah, it's how you roll, man. It's okay.

It's okay. I think most times when people come to the podcast, they're damn scared. Then after that, you talk then

scared. Then after that, you talk then you like you kind of forget about it. Uh I'll

link your grain insta everything below.

You just give me all the links I reach out to you. But then I'll also link your website thing if you want to donate a meal. I think that's uh

meal. I think that's uh Thank you for that.

Yeah, I think that's a incredible gesture that people can do.

Yeah. Okay. Um, any last words you want to say to the cam?

Uh, you should try a grain if you haven't.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. All right.

It's pretty dang good, man.

Okay. Okay. Uh, I will just give me the picture and then I will just put it there also. And Okay. Don't forget like,

there also. And Okay. Don't forget like, comment, subscribe. If you want to

comment, subscribe. If you want to support the podcast, Patreon is there also. Love you long time. Mwah. Mwah.

also. Love you long time. Mwah. Mwah.