“I Regret Nothing!” Clavicular Exposes The Dark World Of Looksmaxxing, Attraction & Extreme Surgery

So, why do so many people believe that looks don't matter? It's easy to convince yourself if you're, you know, not an attractive person that this is not a metric that matters when it's arguably one of the most important for

your overall well-being.

If you aren't good-looking, no one's going to take your opinion seriously.

What's the point of it all? Like, what's

the end goal? There's no end goal to looks maxing. The only real goal is to

looks maxing. The only real goal is to get better looking, no matter what it takes.

>> Why do you think you have become so popular over the past few months? I

would say because of my authenticity with everything that I do, even if it might make me be perceived a little worse. He's got the worst of both

worse. He's got the worst of both traits. The worst of the men combined

traits. The worst of the men combined with the worst of the women. So, we

previously had Greg Ducet on the podcast. Oh jeez.

podcast. Oh jeez.

>> He sent over a few questions he wanted to ask. Cleviculum. How much do you

to ask. Cleviculum. How much do you consider morals with what you do and preach online? I don't necessarily care

preach online? I don't necessarily care too much about like what I need to do to accomplish a result if that's what you're asking.

Hey guys, a quick disclaimer on this episode before we start. We on the Ice Coffee Hour firmly believe in hearing out every single perspective. We like to consider ourselves a self-improvement podcast and so this mentality has been

gaining a lot of ground in the self-improvement niche. So, we decided

self-improvement niche. So, we decided to hear him out. Of course, go into everything with a healthy level of skepticism and curiosity. He says a lot of stuff on this podcast that's a little inflammatory. We didn't want to have an

inflammatory. We didn't want to have an approach of saying, "No, you can't say that." And policing what he can and

that." And policing what he can and can't say. So, we heard him out. No

can't say. So, we heard him out. No

filters. Let us know what you guys think. And of course, if you're

think. And of course, if you're considering doing any of this stuff, talk to a professional. Don't just go out on your own and do it. Let us know what you guys think about this episode.

And if you want more content like this, thank you so much for watching.

Appreciate every single one of you. Onto

the episode. Clavvicular, thank you so much for coming on the Iced Coffee Hour podcast.

>> Absolutely.

>> I got to ask, which social medias are you banned from?

>> I am banned from Instagram and YouTube right now.

>> Do you know why you got banned?

>> Uh, something to do with like the new AI moderation system. I had one of my live

moderation system. I had one of my live accounts taken down that uploads like my kick VODs, which are, you know, pretty over the line. So, and then for some reason that got my main channel flagged even though there was no correlation

between the channels. They didn't give you an actual reason as to exactly why.

>> I believe it was for uh talking about pharmaceuticals and something peptide related is a no-go on YouTube. Now,

>> did your business take a big hit from these social media accounts being banned?

>> Not really. That's not my main source of of revenue. Uh YouTube is is kind of

of revenue. Uh YouTube is is kind of just like a side project and I use that to post a lot of my likeformational content. So, YouTube actually operates

content. So, YouTube actually operates at a loss for me. Hm.

>> So, your main thing is to get to look as good as you possibly can, taking whatever measures necessary to be what would you call an Adam or a Chad,

something like that. Yeah, there's a lot of like terminology out there. Uh, I

just think of it as improving. I don't

really have like an end goal in mind.

Like I know that looks maxing is a pretty much neverending process. Like

there's really no looks maxed that you could achieve. So just seeing like how

could achieve. So just seeing like how far you can go, you know, what you can achieve is kind of my mentality.

>> So why do so many people believe that looks don't matter.

>> Uh it's a lot of cope. It's a lot of people living in delusion fantasy land because it's easy to convince yourself if you're, you know, not an attractive person that this is not a metric that matters when it's arguably one of the

most important for your overall well-being.

>> How much would you say looks matters compared to something like personality?

um it matters so much more because your personality is correlated with your looks via the halo effect, right? So,

people are going to perceive your personality, your interests, your hobbies vastly different if you're good-looking versus not. So, it's, you know, a direct correlation.

>> What would you say are your most attractive and least attractive features right now?

>> Um, most attractive features, I would say that I've got a pretty good hairline. Um, well, I mean, I am, you

hairline. Um, well, I mean, I am, you know, pretty young, so that's one of the things that I should. Um, and I would

say that my my jaw from the front profile is is pretty good. Um, so I would say that and least attractive features, I would say that my nose and

um, yeah, as well as maybe like the total height of my of my skull could be a little better. How is that not body

little better. How is that not body dysmorphia?

>> Well, it it could be absolutely and I think a lot of people usually end up there, but it's just about how you're going to let this affect your overall mental well-being, right? Uh you asked me that question and I, you know, sat

there and thought about it. Um but it's not something I ever think about on a day-to-day basis. I'm not like, "Oh my

day-to-day basis. I'm not like, "Oh my god, I don't want to go outside today because my aer base is too wide or something like that."

>> What is that?

>> Just the width of your nose. M

>> so you know that's that's not a thought process that's not a mentality that I hold it's just I know that I have to improve I have to get better you know but at the same time thinking about your nose don't you think that time would be

better spent elsewhere >> not really because once again it's not something I ever think about just on a day-to-day basis it's like I I know that

uh the steps that are required to you know fix this what we call a phalo um would be rhinoplasty but that's the extent of the the thought process, the mental burden. So, I don't really see it

mental burden. So, I don't really see it as problematic.

>> So, why did you start this entire process? What did you feel like you were

process? What did you feel like you were missing in your life?

>> Um, I didn't really think that I was missing anything. And the way that it

missing anything. And the way that it kind of uh took on um was I was pretty big into bodybuilding. Um I liked watching Rich Piana when I was growing

up and I had a home gym that I was, you know, working out without really any idea what I was doing. So, and then I kind of learned, you know, through my use of forums when I was growing up

about, right, and I was already lifting weights and I was like, well, if I could have this cheat code essentially that's going to get me to my desired physique, get me my results quicker, why would I

not do it? It's not like your typical person who ups at that age where they're like, I want to look like David Laid or Jeff Side. That's not my mentality. It

Jeff Side. That's not my mentality. It

was just an objective. Okay, here's a tool that I could utilize and I'm going going to do so.

>> So, you hopped on at 14, right? Correct.

>> And was any part of your brain concerned with consequences of taking that at such a young age?

>> No. No, not at all.

>> So, what was the mentality going into it was just strictly like this will help me reach my goals at a faster rate?

>> Absolutely.

>> Barring whatever consequences.

>> Yeah. And it seemed pretty silly to not take like it seemed more ridiculous to not take at the time than than to take them, you know, because of of how much quicker I could achieve that physique.

>> But why not do that naturally and then without taking this cuz at 14 you would just assume that you're already going to make a lot of progress. So there's no point to doing

>> Well, I mean that mentality I think is holding a lot of people back. like why

not do it naturally because it's going to not only take longer but you're not going to get nearly the results that you otherwise could you know so just not doing whatever it takes was completely

off the table for me that's like the rich Piana mentality whatever it takes how did you get them >> just ordering on the internet just say >> you were not concerned about ordering

off the internet >> no >> how did you know what you were going to get though how do you know it's going to be legitimate and how do you know what to take.

>> Well, I mean, I did my due diligence with like, you know, online forums and talking about this stuff. So, it took me a little while to figure it out, but, you know, same same way everyone else does. And what about your parents? Did

does. And what about your parents? Did

they have any idea that you were doing this?

>> Yeah, they were not happy with my decision. They would go and, you know,

decision. They would go and, you know, go through my room from time to from time to time and take them away or, you know, snipe the mail. They'd always be going through my packages trying to, you

know, intercept. But um they were not in

know, intercept. But um they were not in support at all. But

>> did you have any of your friends in support of this? Was anyone in support of this aside from yourself?

>> Um no one really had much to say about it. They just, you know, I guess

it. They just, you know, I guess appreciated the honesty because a lot of people take and lie. But I was always someone who just didn't care. Uh even

when I first started because people who are normies usually put into like this weird uh binary in their head where it's like, okay, you're on you should look like Ronnie Coleman. You know what I

mean? Uh rather than okay, you're on

mean? Uh rather than okay, you're on well how much? Oh, you're only on a little bit of testosterone. Like that

makes sense that after two months that you're not uh an IFBB pro, but that's not how how people's brains work. So, uh

I would definitely take on a little bit of of heat for that. Oh, you know, you're you know, barely big for taking bro, but I I didn't care. I was always open about it.

>> Did you start immediately getting more attention from women?

>> No. I I would say that I probably looked worse taking for a little while because I didn't really know how to do them properly. Um, you know, you deal with

properly. Um, you know, you deal with issues with your skin. Uh, I was, you know, getting severely bloated. Um, I

was doing dirty bulk. So, like the gym was kind of something that looks minned me at the start. And the reason I started doing looks maxing was because I was on these forums and then there was a

lot of like the black pill influence like looks maxers coming into the spaces and just that overlap like wait a second guys we're doing all this gym selling and you know dedicating all our time

maybe our priorities are wrong maybe we should be focused on the face. I was

like yeah okay that makes sense. And

that's kind of where I segueed around the age of 16 into looks maxing. What's

the point of it all? Like what's the end goal of looks maxing?

>> Well, once again, there's no end goal to look maxing.

>> What's the point? Like what what do you what's the objective?

>> Well, the objective is to get better looking because that's going to allow for more opportunities, allow for better overall treatment, you know, just that subconscious bias in people that you're

leveraging by, you know, becoming better and better looking is really worth all the effort that you put in. But don't

you think that someone could achieve 90% of looks maxing really just going to the gym, eating healthy, getting a haircut, getting fit clothes, >> soft maxing as they call it,

>> 90%. And then the other 10% that you

>> 90%. And then the other 10% that you would spend years trying to build, you could spend that 10% doing anything else to make you more attractive in other areas. For instance, personality,

areas. For instance, personality, business, intelligence, things like this. I would say that the number falls

this. I would say that the number falls closer to 70%, and I agree with that general premise that you just gave, but I think you're overestimating the time burden of looks maxing. It's not like

something that you really have to to do.

Um, it in a lot of regards, you actually have to focus on business because like that additional like 30% would be typically very expensive. So, you've got to have, you know, the budget set aside

to be able to do things like plastic surgery, things like some of these peptides. It's not exactly a cheap

peptides. It's not exactly a cheap process, but it's not really time inensive either.

>> How much have you spent on your current looks maxing journey? And how much do you intend on spending throughout the rest of your life, do you think?

>> I think I I probably spend around $50 to $80,000 a year just on um like peptides.

So, I I would say that that's probably the majority. That's like obviously an

the majority. That's like obviously an absurd figure. like it's not required

absurd figure. like it's not required that you do that. I think your average person will probably if who's doing like a lot of the protocols maybe run them $5 to $10,000 a year, but I'm experimenting

with like a lot of different stuff like NAD um and like a lot of neutropic related stuff that really pushes the um the price up. So like intelligence maxing is like another thing I do.

>> What is intelligence maxing? Well, using

different pharmaceuticals and neutropics to try to be um you know, as mentally cognizant and sharp as possible.

>> And how do you actually record how intelligent you are? How do you know if you're making forward progress?

>> Well, I mean, just you could definitely notice the acute mental clarity with like a lot of these neutropics that you're taking. Uh for example, something

you're taking. Uh for example, something like sax. If you, you know, take that in

like sax. If you, you know, take that in conjunction with, uh, you know, a stimulant, you're really going to feel a lot more dialed in, like, and it's very noticeable. It's not like a placebo

noticeable. It's not like a placebo garbage, uh, cope supplement that you could take. That's like very legitimate

could take. That's like very legitimate stuff. Um, so in that regard, but in

stuff. Um, so in that regard, but in terms of like doing IQ tests and stuff like from time to time, I think that's a little bit silly to begin with. So, um I

wouldn't really say it needs to be measured because we have the literature.

We we have the studies to support that this stuff does um you know cause like things like synaptogenesis um and that's going to make you more intelligent.

>> So, is this all yourself trying to progress towards this ideal version of yourself and then what do you do once you reach that?

>> I'm still trying to figure out the objective like is this to get like is this to get girls? Is it to like make money? Like what's the purpose of this?

money? Like what's the purpose of this?

Well, all of those things are true, right? Being better looking just is so

right? Being better looking just is so advantageous and getting women, but it's like at the end of the day, um that that would be like a silly reason to do something with this much dedication just

to get women because there's a lot of different things that you could do to get women. Like you could become a more

get women. Like you could become a more interesting person even like you could learn uh like a lot of these psychological tactics. there are steps

psychological tactics. there are steps that you could take but it's just about um you know whatever I want to do my message will be received better um I'll

be received better as a person entirely when I become good-looking so there's essentially no lane that I could take that I wouldn't benefit from massively from looks maxing >> you don't think you've already

accomplished 99% of that >> no not at all >> do you really think that if you had maybe a sharper nose or a more chiseled jaw a jawline that you would make more

opportunity, more money. Do you think that's what's holding you back?

>> Absolutely. Because um you know, I I take a look at percentiles like where I am. I would say I'm probably you know,

am. I would say I'm probably you know, maybe top 90th percentile in terms of looks, but you know, you push yourself further just like that additional 10 uh

percentiles. And what you start to

percentiles. And what you start to achieve and the doors start to open are like, you know, for example, like the the one guy Jeremy Meeks who commits a felony and has a bunch of girls find him

attractive and bail him out on Facebook and then he gets a $1 million modeling contract or Jordan Barrett who gets caught stealing uh another like you know contracts and like all these people who

do like these heinous crimes and just like have PE girls like stamping over them. That's what becomes available to

them. That's what becomes available to you. Uh, so life is like just impossible

you. Uh, so life is like just impossible to lose.

>> Yeah, but are you going to be committing crimes? I mean, example to show that

crimes? I mean, example to show that >> those guys, it's purely because they went viral based on their mug shot. No,

it's like it's the crime and then you see the face and you're like, wait a second, that face can't fit that crime.

Like I see a lot of women now, you see their mug shots of like she just threw hot coffee on this guy and went to jail and it's like some attractive like 20some year old and they go viral on

Twitter. Well, not when you're getting

Twitter. Well, not when you're getting like modeling contracts worth millions of dollars, right? That's like a looks level that and you know, I'm pretty sure Brad Pitt even had a similar comeup

story. I don't recall his exactly, but

story. I don't recall his exactly, but life just becomes like uneasy mode. Like

you're basically playing like creative in Minecraft, you know?

>> Yeah. But how do you explain then Mark Zuckerberg or a lot of these billionaires which are just average looking dudes?

>> Easy because they're they're extremely innovative. they came up with something

innovative. they came up with something uh you know that's never been seen before. And I I'm not sitting here

before. And I I'm not sitting here suggesting that you can't win at life if you're not good-looking. I'm just

suggesting that it would be uh drastically easier, right? And I don't think that's really a controversial thing to say. I would say that if Mark Zuckerberg were to be, you know, a top percentile mocker, then he would be even

more successful. I would disagree with

more successful. I would disagree with that. I would say that if he's so

that. I would say that if he's so attractive, people might not take him as seriously. And that part of the reason

seriously. And that part of the reason he did so well is because people see him as a quote unquote nerd and they see his face and his style and they associate that with someone who's really good at

tech. And if he were a model looking

tech. And if he were a model looking dude, I think he would be passed up on a lot of opportunity just because you're like, "Oh, a dude this good-looking can't possibly create this whole social

network versus the dude who fits the part." I think it's really just about

part." I think it's really just about looking the part. And I would argue and push back for you. I think you would benefit the most from taking like comedy classes and standup classes and work on

charisma more so than looks because just objectively I see you maxing >> I probably but >> gester maxing >> I've never heard of that. Did you just make that up? Is that a thing?

>> Yeah, jester maxing a thing doing comedy shows >> I think. Yeah, because I look at you and I'm like dude yeah probably you did probably 98% of the work. you're done as

long as you just hit the gym and moisturize your face. That's it. And

then charisma and comedy and being, you know, just self amused at things and like that to me would take you a lot further.

>> Okay, I see. So, um, you know, obviously that's completely cope about the Mark Zuckerberg thing. Um, but even if it

Zuckerberg thing. Um, but even if it wasn't, that's just one, you know, anecdote, right? But we're talking about

anecdote, right? But we're talking about across the society uh and general principles, people are going to receive you better and you're going to be more successful if you're good-looking. So

even if you know you were correct, I don't really think it's even worth necessarily like going into like a back and forth about just one specific anecdote.

>> Here's here's a here's another point I want to make. Uh cuz I'm not a tall guy and they have these studies out there that say that for every inch you are, I think above like 510 or something, you

make more money. Yeah. And it looks like on the surface short people make less than taller people. And therefore, if you're taller, you're going to make more money. When they really got down to the

money. When they really got down to the study, it was not due to the height, but due to the confidence that person had.

And the taller the person, the more likely they are to be confident. And

because they are confident, they're more likely to take career risk and take risks in approaching people. And because

of that, they feel more comfortable. It

was that as a differentiation and not the height itself.

>> Yeah. Well, because you know, you think about evolution, you know, if you're taller, you're, you know, a biological dominator just intrinsically. So, of

course, you're going to be more confident, but that's still correlated with looks, right?

>> No, I think it's cor correlated with confidence.

>> Well, you know, the confidence stems from the looks, from you being >> No, I think the confidence the confidence stems from within. If you

believe in yourself and you have the you have the assurance that no matter what you put your mind to, you'll be able to achieve >> when you're bigger than than the rest the average, you know, guy, the rest of

the population. That's what I would say

the population. That's what I would say would would be the main driver of your confidence level.

>> I would say when you're bigger, you don't have to you don't have to work as hard as if you have something to overcome.

>> I think confidence comes from evidence.

I know that most of my confidence was it had arrived after I achieved some sort of like success. And so whether you're short and you work really hard and

achieve material success, the confidence is coming from that. If you're tall and you achieve, you know, physical dominance, like the confidence comes from that. It's not just because you're

from that. It's not just because you're tall. It's not just because, you know,

tall. It's not just because, you know, you're short. It's it's kind of like

you're short. It's it's kind of like through the evidence and you proving to yourself over time.

>> I see. Okay. Well, yeah. Um, agree to disagree there. You know, I I would say

disagree there. You know, I I would say that looks are just like the, you know, end all be all for opportunities. So

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>> I would say I mostly agree that looks are very important. I agree with the halo effect. I think you're right on

halo effect. I think you're right on that. I think wasn't there some study

that. I think wasn't there some study that showed more attractive people get shorter sentences.

>> Yes. And it's it's quite significant.

It's around 40% shorter sentences.

>> So, it's clearly not inconsequential to look really good. I think the main part that we're disagreeing on is that if you're really trying to like life max >> to speak the lingo, then it would make

more sense to spend a little bit more time developing some other skills that you could be lacking, pulling your overall like weighted score down more than like not having a perfect nose.

>> Well, yeah. And I I tend to agree with like a lot of like the red pill podcast guys on this. I just literally think there's the the key nuance missing of looks being mentioned whatsoever. I

almost never hear guys like, you know, Tate, like those type of figures even mention it. Whereas I agree with all the

mention it. Whereas I agree with all the stuff you guys are talking about like improving upon other metrics, becoming a more interesting person, um, you know, focusing on business and, you know, maximizing your income. This is all

stuff that I talk about and heavily advocate for. I I just don't think it's

advocate for. I I just don't think it's necessarily the most important thing.

Um, and none of it's mutually exclusive.

So, it doesn't matter whatsoever because looks maxing is not a time inensive thing whatsoever. It's it's very simple.

thing whatsoever. It's it's very simple.

It's just a few principles to follow like you know the the main one being uh maintaining a low body fat. Um, you

know, so there's no there's no conflict there with you know maybe working on your charisma.

>> What are the most basic things someone can do to achieve maximum physical appearance? I would say that just as I

appearance? I would say that just as I mentioned being lean, low body fat percentage is going to give you such an advantage over the average especially in a country like America with the obesity

rates right people are typically sitting between 20 to 30% body fat. So if you're able to really like shred yourself down to that 101 12 mark uh that facial angularity that you gain is going to

serve you so well. So that's the easiest thing that you could do as well. And

that's going to largely be about like 70% of what you could accomplish in terms of softmaxing is quite literally just being lean. And the next thing you could do that's uh a really big one is

uh being tan, right? That's another

health indicator. And there's a lot of sexual preference surveys that suggest that this is the most optimal uh coloring for um you know, female sexual

attraction. What is the halo effect? The

attraction. What is the halo effect? The

halo effect is people receiving you better, your personality, your interests, your hobbies based on your appearance, right? So, for example, if

appearance, right? So, for example, if two people were into video games and one of them was good-looking and one of them was not, uh, the good-looking guy might be uh, oh, that's that's really

interesting. That's a unique hobby you

interesting. That's a unique hobby you have. Might might be how someone would

have. Might might be how someone would react. And they might call the

react. And they might call the unattractive person playing video games, even though it's the exact same thing.

um just a nerd, a loser, you know. So

that's a example.

>> And when did you decide to go allin?

>> Um I would say that it was an evolving process. It wasn't like, you know, one

process. It wasn't like, you know, one day I had like a a girl break up with me and I'm like, "Okay, I'm doing luxing allin." It was kind of just as the

allin." It was kind of just as the information hit me, I applied what made sense to me. Um I go about look maxing in like a very objective way. I would

say a lot of guys like for doing stuff like the gym and self-improvement, it usually stems from some huge cope. Um

whether it be just like a girl like breaking up with them or like you know just some type of motivation like that.

Um and that's where you get like a lot of like the losers like the cringe is is from that rather than just like okay objectively this could make my life better. And when do you think you're

better. And when do you think you're going to peak in terms of looks? I'm

sure at a certain age there's going to be a bit of a decline. I'd say in like a year or two would would probably be when that would occur.

>> What needs to happen between now and then?

>> Well, I'm getting jaw surgery soon. So,

that's going to be one of the biggest things. And then just getting back into

things. And then just getting back into the gym because with content, I've been really like at a loss with trying to manage my schedule. you know, doing these long live streams, doing like a

lot of podcast appearances, and like continuing to work out. So, once I get those two things dialed in, I would say I'll be certainly nearing that.

>> What's the surgery you're getting?

>> A double jaw surgery.

>> What is that?

>> Um, it's an osteotomy of the upper maxilla and lower mandible.

>> Just dumb it down for me. I don't know what any of that.

>> So, they basically make a cut on the lower jaw and then move it forward and apply screws. Um, and same with the

apply screws. Um, and same with the upper jaw. It's like a It's called a

upper jaw. It's like a It's called a leaffort osteotomy. They cut along your

leaffort osteotomy. They cut along your interior nasal spine and then advance your jaw forward. It's like they actually have to break your jaw.

>> Why?

>> How many points do you think you're going to go up on the 1 through 10 scale after getting that surgery?

>> 1.5.

>> 1.5.

>> How did you come to 1.5?

>> What do you rate yourself out of 10? I

don't I don't >> like an you. But if you move up one and a half, is that like out of 10? Yeah, I

would say that that's generally how much people improve from from BAX from what I've seen.

>> How much is that going to cost?

>> 35,000. What's the recovery like?

>> It's it's pretty brutal, I'd say, for the first 3 weeks. Then after that, you just have residual swelling that kind of subsides over like a 3 to 6 month period. Has anyone tried to talk you out

period. Has anyone tried to talk you out of this?

>> Yeah, pretty much everyone like parents and stuff like that. Just copers

normies. the the the only thing that I see with you again just objectively is that if you do the surgery your views are going to shoot through the roof because people are going to want to tune

in to see okay what happens so you'll you'll make the money back so it'll be a free surgery.

>> Yeah. No.

>> Um the downside is if the surgery goes wrong in which case your views double >> from what they would be otherwise.

But beyond just more of a shock.

>> Yeah. No, I absolutely understand that perspective. And

perspective. And >> um usually when people are trying to talk me out of the surgery, they've u you know often never heard of it before.

Um so I I've done a lot of research into this. I wouldn't be choosing this like

this. I wouldn't be choosing this like as a way to just like get attention and get views. I like there's no way I would

get views. I like there's no way I would permanently disfigure myself for that reason. and I decided upon jaw surgery

reason. and I decided upon jaw surgery for reasons other than social media.

Like I didn't start doing social media up until like a few months ago. Um so I was already dead set on on this course of action far before then.

>> Do you think there could be a point though where you do certain surgeries and it makes you less attractive? Like a

lot of people lately have been talking about uh Bradley Cooper, right? He had a facelift or Zack Efron, right?

>> Well, yeah. That's just incorrect surgical choices. they're, you know,

surgical choices. they're, you know, Zack Efron is doing filler which doesn't dissolve, it migrates, right? So, you do filler into your cheekbones, slowly migrates down your face into your buckle

region, it's just going to make you look like a bloated pig, right? So, of

course, um, you know, if you go about things the wrong way, if you go to surgeons, um, you know, incorrect procedures, yeah, that can happen. But

it's, you know, people like my job, myself's job to advocate for, you know, proper surgical intervention and actually doing things the right way.

>> I would say overall as a message to spread, this could be good, but it's more than likely bad, at least to that degree. I'm curious if you were to

degree. I'm curious if you were to spread a message to a million people, so know that some people will take it in the right way, some people will take it in the wrong way. What is the exact message that you want to spread to them

in terms of looks maxing in terms of what you're comfortable with?

>> I think people should just be more aware of self-improvement in general, not necessarily um, you know, taking it to the extreme that I do without, you know, going

through the ringer with just stuff like getting lean, going to the gym. I think

you should start there, see what you can accomplish and slowly build an understanding. And then you know you

understanding. And then you know you want to come back and take a look like maybe um things still aren't going so well for you because there is this huge purgatory zone where even like the average to above average looking man

who's you know got a decent job can't even find a sexual partner right and that that's been well researched like um twothirds of men 18 through 21 haven't had sex in 6 months right so it's it's

very difficult in today's society so pushing the limits isn't necessarily something I'm uh super against advocating for. But I would say that you

advocating for. But I would say that you really have to know uh yourself as an individual to make sure you're not going to take things too far or go about it incorrectly. See, I don't think it's a

incorrectly. See, I don't think it's a looks thing. I don't think it's just

looks thing. I don't think it's just like people are now all of a sudden more unattractive than they were in the past.

I think it's more of just that people aren't talking. They're not making the

aren't talking. They're not making the effort. They're they're chronically

effort. They're they're chronically online and if they were to make an effort to go and talk to people in person and work on their personality, they would go so much further.

>> Well, that's the thing. Um, it's funny you mentioned chronically online because that's the problem, but for a reason that you might not have acknowledged is because you're not only competing with people in

your immediate surroundings. Uh, you

know, hypergamy would exist where maybe every single girl in a town would go for like, you know, the top five um Chads or whatever, but that's only in your town.

Now with Instagram, you have competition with NFL football players sometimes, right? because uh they're flying these

right? because uh they're flying these girls out. It's sort of globalized

girls out. It's sort of globalized dating and that's an awful thing if you're just like the average dude and you have to compete with um you know like Tom Brady who's DMing your

girlfriend on like there's no there's no way to win, right? So that's why looks Max.

>> But then why not use that to your advantage? Why not be a dude who's

advantage? Why not be a dude who's interesting who's posting great pictures on Instagram and then you could become almost the same thing as them?

>> No. As as Tom Brady or like a football player. No. As as someone who could get

player. No. As as someone who could get girls online, too.

>> No, no. The the it's about the status and not necessarily about like building a good Instagram profile. even if you got like a few thousand followers like

um you know if someone like you know even myself with like the Instagram profile that I had well I guess before I got banned where I like DM a girl um it doesn't matter if my Instagram is like

perfectly like NT and I'm like doing all these neurotypical uh and doing all these activities it's just about the number and like the clout that comes with it.

>> Okay so this is a part where I would like to to fight back a little bit. I do

think that there's a little bit of like a self- selected group of people that live here in South Florida. For the

record, we are at Ben Mal's place. Thank

you Ben.

>> Thank you, Ben, for letting us be here.

We're in South Florida, and I do think that the average type of person that lives here may look for different things than the average type of person coming out of, you know, Arkansas or coming out

of California or coming out of New York or coming out of Montana. like they're

all, you know, maybe if you do all of those things to the extreme measure, you're going to be more popular in this location with this type of person. But

would you acknowledge that there are communities of people that have different interests?

>> Yes, I would say that you're spot on with that. Miami is like the most

with that. Miami is like the most degenerate city like I've ever like lived even near. That's why I don't even I can't even live in Miami. I have to live in Delray Beach about an hour north

>> just because of how bad things are down there. But I didn't build this worldview

there. But I didn't build this worldview in Miami. I only lived here for about

in Miami. I only lived here for about two months. Um, so these were

two months. Um, so these were observations that I began making living in my small town in Massachusetts, right? Um, I noticed that from time to

right? Um, I noticed that from time to time I would take interest in a girl and she'd be followed by like a ridiculous like status moger and that was like, okay, this global globalization of

dating is really people over, you know?

So that's kind of how I I had figured that out. But maybe a girl that would

that out. But maybe a girl that would take interest in a guy like that in the first place, would that be your first pick at a girl? Or once you realize, okay, your values are in this area, you

know, maybe there's less compatibility.

At least I know for myself, if I would took interest in a girl and yet she was followed by all these DJs and she's following them, I'm like, uh, like I don't really know if that's something I'm interested in, >> right? But I mean, like at the end of

>> right? But I mean, like at the end of the day, women are always looking for like, you know, the next best thing.

They're extremely hypergamous in nature and you know maybe are able to beat this uh you know issue and and find a good girl who's maybe not even on Instagram.

We're talking about a societal issue.

>> I think it really just depends on the type of person you're talking to cuz it really depends on how they grew up, their priorities, >> right? But he's saying it's a societal

>> right? But he's saying it's a societal broadly speaking bringing up a specific >> Right. So yeah, I'm I'm not sitting here

>> Right. So yeah, I'm I'm not sitting here suggesting that you can't find a a girlfriend who's wonderful, you can't get married um and start a great family in 2025. I'm just saying it's become

in 2025. I'm just saying it's become increasingly difficult. And from the

increasingly difficult. And from the last generations, dating has really took a turn for the worse and I am speculating that it's going to continue

to become more and more hypergamous. So,

you know, you are right that you can find great girls with great upbeings, but just as a general rule of thumb, cuz I like to look at the black pill and look look in a very societal sociological context.

>> What's lookism?

>> Lookism is just treating people differently based on their looks.

>> So, it's sort of like >> racis like racism before looks.

>> What What are all these pills? I don't

understand what a black pill is. The

black pill is um it's an idea about genetic determinism and it stems from like the Matrix. Like you take the red pill and then you stop living in fantasy land. It's like the idea behind it. So

land. It's like the idea behind it. So

like you could swallow all these different pills for like these different ideas and like you kind of unlock them.

>> So um you know and and people will make memes about it. They'll like, you know, say like you could, for example, take like the

I don't even know, take like the haircut pill and just like to to memeify the thing like getting a haircut will say or some something like that. Uh or like the pill um would be like another just like

meme version of it.

>> And that would mean that like getting is the best thing you could do for your life basically.

>> Yeah, exactly. So like you're you're pilled like you're you're in tune with that idea. So, what's the difference

that idea. So, what's the difference between black and and red pill?

>> So, black pill is like um genetic determinism. It's saying like your life

determinism. It's saying like your life is going to go a certain way based on your genetics, whether or not you're good-looking. And the red pill suggests

good-looking. And the red pill suggests that you could actually improve upon your base. You can change your life. And

your base. You can change your life. And

it's more of like a improvement mentality. And the black pill is more of

mentality. And the black pill is more of like a doomer mentality. So um the black pill is more correlated with the lux maxing space because a lot of it is like

incelss who have like a lot of you know uh self-resentment and and kind of stuff like that. So that's why it's there. But

like that. So that's why it's there. But

I think black pill extremism is um an you know comes from extreme cognitive dissonance. They don't really understand

dissonance. They don't really understand the world at all. So I would say that I'm kind of like somewhere in the middle of like the red pill and the black pill.

I think that a lot of what's suggested in the red pill, which is like, oh, you could just like go to the gym, um, and, you know, you'll be able to ascend your life, you know, but you're talking to

people with like, you know, genetically low intellect who are extremely subhuman. Um, I I think that think

subhuman. Um, I I think that think that's, you know, very dishonest, but I definitely think that there's room for improvement for everyone.

>> What's subhuman? Subhuman is a term that we use in like the looks max community for like horrendously ugly people.

>> Where would they fall in the scale of like 1 to 10? Is that like below a five?

>> Yeah, traditionally like around like a three.

>> Can they not be subhuman? Like they

could take themselves from subhuman to like optimal? Like what's the most that

like optimal? Like what's the most that you could increase points >> from 1 to 10? Well, that depends on whether or not puberty is in play because you could jump like >> let's say you're 25. You're 25 and

you're subhuman.

>> Yeah, 25 subhuman. I would say that 10 to 15 percentiles would be like the maximum if you're to like looks max to the extent that I am. But um besides that, >> let's say naturally, let's say let's say

you're naturally today you're 25 and you're a four out of 10.

>> It depends on like where we are. Like if

we're like a a fat, you know, acne ridden uh jester, it's like that's something that can be easily softmaxed.

So that would be a huge jump. So it's

all contextual. I don't think it would be something I could give like a general principle for.

>> Do you think it's possible to go from a four to an eight?

>> Once again, it it's just very contextoriented, so I couldn't give you an answer there, but I would say that yeah, sometimes it just depends on what's driving the scale up or down.

Like if we were to take like I mean Christian Bale has even done that like when he uh goes for like movies like The Machinist and get gets extremely skinny or what's the one where he got extremely

overweight for for a movie role.

>> Oh gosh, I know the one you're talking about. I

about. I >> Yeah. Yeah. Regardless, you guys get the

>> Yeah. Yeah. Regardless, you guys get the idea. And then you have him like for

idea. And then you have him like for American Psycho where he fully looks maxes. So like that's a four in an

maxes. So like that's a four in an eight. Like what are we talking about?

eight. Like what are we talking about?

Um but it's just why are you a four to begin with? You know what is it? your

begin with? You know what is it? your

your body fat or is it like your bone structure?

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Enjoy. Why do you think you have become so popular over the past few months? The

thing is for us, we are somewhat of like a self-improvement podcast. I like to think that people can tune in, they can learn something about finance, they can learn something about the gym, they can learn something about health, whatever

it may be. That's what the goal is here.

And obviously you've been rising in the ranks of like self-development extremely extremely fast. So we could just

extremely fast. So we could just couldn't ignore you. We're like okay like you know this would make sense to have Clav on the podcast, but I'm curious like why you have such an attractive personality to so many people out there.

>> I would say because of my authenticity with everything that I do, even if it's something that might make me look or be perceived a little worse. Um, I just

really don't care about like being like a PR trained influencer. Uh, I blow brand deals all the time, you know, just by, you know, being authentic. Um, I I'm not like performative for the cameras.

It's not like I have to go around having people like sign NDAs who are, you know, I'm hanging out with off camera because I'm the exact same person um, regardless

of what I do. And I would say that that offers like a huge advantage um based on like what people are used to with most influencers are like very performative a

lot of the time like they virtue signal um about political issues and I'm like the complete opposite of that. So, um,

people like that and it's also something new that I'm I'm mentioning because people have gone through, you know, the the final boss of Copes and they've done

um, you know, like pickup artist like coaching and stuff like that or they've done um, just regular fitness and their life hasn't really changed in the way that they were promised by a lot of the

old people in the manosphere. And now

I'm coming in and acknowledging like, wait a second guys, maybe it's not your personality. Maybe it's not your game.

personality. Maybe it's not your game.

Um, it could be something a little bit deeper, you know. So, offering that new perspective, I think has also risen me to fame. And as well as my speaking

to fame. And as well as my speaking abilities, I think I could convey my message fairly well on podcasts. I tend

to think it's just a bit of the I'm going to go back to the extremism that a lot of people look at you objectively and say, "Okay, you're a good-looking guy who doesn't need to do these things,

but then you're taking that already to an extreme." at the same time that no

an extreme." at the same time that no one else is really doing a looks maxing thing to your degree. So, you have like this first mover advantage with a really

unique package and a really unique style to it. And that's personally what I

to it. And that's personally what I think it is cuz I remember when I first saw you, I think it was you were at the gym or like and I thought maybe you were joking about like snorting something

before working out and I'm like what the there's no way. And then you go down that rabbit hole a little little bit and then I realize like wait a second a lot of people are listening to you.

>> Yeah. So the the thing was like one of the more extreme looks maxes. Um once

again I heavily advocate against >> what what was that?

>> Well >> so explain this for people who haven't seen it. So, as I was rising to fame,

seen it. So, as I was rising to fame, right, I was like, "Okay, I really need to cash in and and capitalize on this like, you know, jump in exposure that I'm getting, you know, from a lot

of different collaborations." So, I was like, "Okay, I need to ascend as quickly as possible." So, what I did was I

as possible." So, what I did was I suppressed my appetite to an extremely high degree with >> um >> like actual >> like we're talking about like the

street.

>> No, we're talking like talking like aderall or we're talking like >> talking dextro.

Yeah. Um

>> so it's it's not quite like aderall would be like dextrampetamine.

>> Yeah.

>> And dextra. So like what would the main difference between those two be?

>> There's just the addition of the group which makes it longer acting, more psychoactive and um just cross your blood brain barrier fairly quicker. And

then what about the difference between that and street? Street has different isomers in it. So there will typically

be like more L versus uh you know dissoxin which is like the dextro would be D. So just like the different isomers

be D. So just like the different isomers um kind of do different things like the L isomer is much more of like a physical like tweaker stimula. That's where you

see like the hobos on the street tweaking off of L. So, do you think that establishing that distinction is important at all? Because I do wonder if you just say, "Oh, yeah, I'm doing, you know, then kids are going to watch and

be like, "Okay, like, let me go over to this guy hanging out at the bottom of this fence and see what he's got, you know, cuz I'm trying to look like Clav."

When in actuality, it's not exactly that. But obviously, colloquially, we

that. But obviously, colloquially, we always think of, you know, as that.

>> Well, yeah. I mean, I'm always uh very quick to clarify, but the issue that you run into is people just clip things out of context. So it's like um but also at

of context. So it's like um but also at the end of the day if you know if someone stumbles across like short form media and they're like okay like I'm going to start doing like that's just

Darwinism at the end of the day. Like

you know what I mean? So uh I'm not going to sit here and act like I'm some like uh influencer. Like I'm not I'm not okay. I'm not I've never claimed to be.

okay. I'm not I've never claimed to be.

I'm just simply someone who uh doesn't like the inconvenience of having to uh conceal the the things that I do. um

when I'm a full-time live streamer.

Right.

>> So, why did you do that though? What was

the objective? What was the goal of facial leanness to get leaner >> to do?

What do you mean >> to to start?

>> Well, also for like the psychoactive benefits, right? So, uh increasing my

benefits, right? So, uh increasing my productivity. So, when I was up and

productivity. So, when I was up and coming with like the whole streaming game and when I was doing my YouTube videos, I could just be more productive.

>> Couldn't Couldn't you do that with like pre-workout or coffee? I mean, yeah, you could, but I mean, like, it's comparing like, you know, creatine to, you know.

>> Did you get this idea of doing from anyone else online?

>> No.

>> So, you came up with this?

>> Um, yeah, pretty much.

>> And what was the logic behind coming up with it? Like, how did did you read a

with it? Like, how did did you read a forum or where did that information come about? Um, well, I just I I mean, I've

about? Um, well, I just I I mean, I've always been like kind of a stim maxer and I was >> What's that?

>> Like a stimulant user. Stimulant maxer.

>> I'm a boomer.

>> I would I would I'm 35 and so it's like a new world new language.

>> Typically stim max with and that's just like was a cope. That's like a physical stimulant. It's horrible for your heart.

stimulant. It's horrible for your heart.

All right? You know, you're blocking the sodium channel. you could have a heart

sodium channel. you could have a heart attack in a second and die. Um, but a lot of the was often laced with like inetamine salts anyway. And then I for

the first time tried uh street like I would say like almost a year ago and I was like wow this is like extremely longer acting and I'm like wow

like I haven't eaten in like a day. So

that was that was the only time I did because um you know I was like okay I don't really want to do this like this is this is not great and then um you

know as I started coming into more reality I I was like okay like this is I acknowledge that is bad but like I need to get lean as quickly as possible. So

this is like kind of a weird unique situation and this is a weird method like I don't add >> how are you getting it? Well, I mean, I'm not going to talk about sourcing,

but um once again, I heavily advocate against stimulate usage. Um I think that if most people with their willpower get Adderall prescriptions, they're going to misuse them. They're going to just take

misuse them. They're going to just take Adderall to get high. So, that's why I say like do not take [ __ ] >> So, you would be you're the exception that you feel like you could control it, use it.

>> Well, I've got I've got strong willpower, right? I mean, is incredibly

willpower, right? I mean, is incredibly addictive. You see people's lives get

addictive. You see people's lives get quite literally ruined.

>> If you say you have strong willpower, couldn't you have the willpower then just to get the work done without the >> well there's no reason to do so. Um you

know because it's it becomes more optimal to do it a certain way. So just

makes no sense to >> When's the last time you did >> I would say about two weeks ago. I've

been I haven't done any I haven't been drinking. And I always do that like as

drinking. And I always do that like as like um you know a a tolerance break and just kind of a litmus test to see like okay like I'm still good like I'm not actually like dependent on stimulants.

So I'm just like okay I'm not going to take any stimulants. I'll do no caffeine even for like a while. Um just to kind of reset myself.

>> What are the things you've done along the journey of looks maxing that you would not recommend for the viewers?

>> I would say that that's probably a big one. stimulants for appetite

one. stimulants for appetite suppressants. Uh I would not advocate

suppressants. Uh I would not advocate for that. I would say that the

for that. I would say that the testosterone thing um to a large degree you can wind up yourself over because the aromatization into estradile can

actually cause your growth plates to close prematurely. So if you're not

close prematurely. So if you're not carefully managing uh that aromatization and taking something like an aromatase inhibitor, you could wind to wind up actually screwing yourself quite significantly. Is there anything that

significantly. Is there anything that you've done that you regret doing?

>> H Is there anything that I regret doing?

H no, there's nothing that like went horrendously wrong, per se. Is there

anything you wouldn't do again?

>> Not really. I mean, just like the higher doses of testosterone, I I wouldn't have done Tren again. I I did Tren for like 2 or 3 weeks and that caused my hair to really like take a big hit. I mean, I

recovered, but like Tren, I I definitely regretted.

>> What would you consider to be too far?

I don't really think that there's it's like going too far unless you're causing detriment to your health. Um, unless

something is looks magneting you in another metric. So, it's like I don't

another metric. So, it's like I don't really understand that that premise.

>> Do you think that that would do detriment to your health?

>> Well, in high doses, it's extremely neurotoxic. Yeah, dopamine toxicity is a

neurotoxic. Yeah, dopamine toxicity is a very real thing. So, if you take high doses of any dopamine release stimulant, then yeah, it's neurotoxic.

>> I heard on Bradley Martin you were doing stuff to uh your your downstairs.

>> Yeah, I was doing like shopping bag hanging and like pumping. I haven't

really been PE maxing since I just >> What is that?

>> Uh penis enhancement. I haven't been doing that as of lately, but I that was something I did last year in 2024.

How do you is there is there like a forum that you see this or >> our getting bigger could refer to like Leon longevity does a lot of stuff Conor Murphy um I would say are more like

veteran like P masters to refer to. I

certainly have made content about it and sort of the things that I did but I wouldn't really classify myself as like an expert in that field.

>> Jack's been told that it doesn't really ma matter how big it is just it's how you use it. Well, there's like what women say and like what they actually do.

>> So, on soft maxing because I I like talking about this because I think it's something that I have a more strong endorsement of. You're not like

endorsement of. You're not like permanently changing anything about your body. You're just trying to get in

body. You're just trying to get in better shape. You're maybe trying to, I

better shape. You're maybe trying to, I don't know, do some light work to your face, like fix your eyebrows, get a good hairstyle, nice clothing that fits.

>> Um, I'm curious for going to the gym, if you're trying to develop your physique into the most physically aesthetic physique possible, what are the best workouts to do that? So, um I would say it's more about like principles rather

than workouts. And people have gotten

than workouts. And people have gotten this so wrong for so many years in the gym uh fitness community is like just a joke to me. Um cuz they don't understand

about like training frequencies and what's actually optimal for hypertrophy.

I would say up until about 2022, everything was so far from the truth.

Like even from fitness figures that I liked like doing like the 8 hour arm workouts like from Rich or like people would even say you have to do like 100 curls before you go to sleep. So your

body is like thinking about producing muscle like the whole thing is just like such a joke. So you know simply what I'm I'm telling you guys is if you actually look at the literature and you know the

studies on like EMG activation uh what you you know find out is doing something that's high frequency with low volume uh is the most optimal way to induce

hypertrophy. So what would be the

hypertrophy. So what would be the perfect workout for a physique right now? So the perfect workout uh split,

now? So the perfect workout uh split, I'll say that would be like an upper lower split where you go you do your upper body and then you do uh you know your lower body the next day uh with

generally low amounts of set volume. So

that would look like um you know maybe two sets for your chest and then you alter alternate between these two muscle groups and that's going to induce the best results.

>> What do you think all the billionaires are doing to get shredded like a Jeff Bezos? Oh, they're usually doing TRT and

Bezos? Oh, they're usually doing TRT and OMIC. Jeff Bezos is a classic case of

OMIC. Jeff Bezos is a classic case of TRT and likely a GLB one. So, this is just like all the these designer um billionaires have been using them for

about 2 years now and now they're kind of like available to the normies like the mainstream. And even myself, I've

the mainstream. And even myself, I've been using these things, talking about them for the longest time now. I see

like even moms like driving around minivans doing TikTok lives promoting GLP1s and Ompic. It's just quite comical to me because it's like, okay, you guys kind of stole my talking points here.

>> What do you think Jack and I should do to looks Max?

>> Oh, um I mean I just I would >> What do you think?

>> I would say that um the the best way to look max and like increase your demorphism would be taking testosterone.

Um that that's a really phenomenal way to uh not only increase your dimorphism in the face, but increase your presence, your frame. Those are all all you know

your frame. Those are all all you know amazing things that you could do and it's not a huge time investment not a lot of financial burden there. So u just getting like the most comprehensive

understanding of and you know all the exogenous hormone usage and then implementing that can go a long way.

>> Okay. So we're not going to do that.

We're not going to do any like exogenous stuff. We're not going to oursel with

stuff. We're not going to oursel with anything. What about just soft maxing?

anything. What about just soft maxing?

What would you say is the best thing we can do? say that getting a tan would be

can do? say that getting a tan would be uh probably the next best thing.

>> It's so funny, Jack.

>> Yeah.

>> So, you and I have to do that again. I

mean, and I would I know you guys aren't going to anything, but there are things you could do to tan quicker.

>> I mentioned that this morning.

>> Yeah, the melano tan too. Okay. Well,

yeah. So, that's a one. All you're doing is preventing premature aging mechanisms by um inducing melanogenesis so that you know the the amount of UV exposure

drastically decreases. So that seems

drastically decreases. So that seems like a very logical thing and that's going to decrease your chances of getting uh skin cancer. Um and there's really no uh side effects. You know, all

the only side effects that occur from meant 2 would be like acute nausea, but long term it's perfectly healthy.

>> Okay. Okay. So, if you're going to observe Graham first, what can he do to to look as best as possible?

>> Glory.

>> Um, well, I mean, it looks like I can't really tell too much, but it looks like your hairline's receding a little bit.

>> Yeah. So, I would start with like a hairline a hair loss protocol would be a good place.

>> I use finasteride.

>> You use finasteride. Okay. Well, even

dut might be a little bit better.

There's less chance of like the libido related issues. So, I would switch over

related issues. So, I would switch over to DT. take minoxidil to regrow

to DT. take minoxidil to regrow everything. Um, and like you know,

everything. Um, and like you know, obviously like a double jaw surgery, you would certainly qualify for. Um, so I I would >> you could be brutally honest with there's nothing you're going to say that

don't hurt my feelings or anything.

>> I would say like double jaw surgery like the the two jaws are a little bit recessed. So I'd start there. But and

recessed. So I'd start there. But and

then where do you finish? Like what

would you keep doing? Well, you you kind of have to just take it one step at a time and implement.

>> Let's say do that and then and then what's next?

>> Well, you know, increasing the physique, fixing up the coloring, like giving yourself like the proper undertones. I

mean, like giving you like a looks maxing protocol. I could sit here for 4

maxing protocol. I could sit here for 4 hours. You know what I mean? But

hours. You know what I mean? But

>> Oh, it's that bad. He needs to shopping bag a lot more.

>> No, it's it's not that it's that bad.

Like, everyone can improve. Like I could generally sit and and do a seminar like talking about Luxmaxing for like hours on end. Like there's really no limit to

on end. Like there's really no limit to how long we could talk about it.

>> And what would you do with Jack?

>> I would I would say that in principle it's like very similar for like a lot of people. It's just like the only

people. It's just like the only difference for Luxing would be like maybe there's specific things person to person like you know perfecting their

phenotype. So, um, you know, once again,

phenotype. So, um, you know, once again, it would just really take too long to, uh, like go into like each individual.

Um, >> if there's like three things on Jack, three things on me, you're like these three things would get you the biggest benefit.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, um, both of you, you more so could certainly benefit from like, you know, taking things like carotenoids because you really lack like their reddish like undertones. That's

like a health indicator that indicates like proper blood flow. Um would be certainly something that's good. Like a

corotenoid blend. You could usually buy those on Amazon.

>> So what's that do? Just make me look a little vampire.

>> Like a little bit healthier like a basically like frauds like good blood circulation like the lycopine asanthin.

Um you've probably heard of like you know undertones carotenoids. No. Like

eating sweet >> eating like different fruits like induce different uh colors. You never heard about this?

>> Never.

>> Okay. Well, yeah. So, you could either do do that from foods or just taking supplements all over the counter. That's

like softmax normmy stuff.

>> Okay.

>> I would advocate for minoxidil um certainly to grow back your hair.

>> And um definitely like a double jaw surgery would be a good place to start for you.

>> And um for Jack, I would say that uh the melanotan peptide would be really good.

Um, you know, maybe depending on your mass setness, I tell people like if you've got a super high set massitor, don't take this advice. But if your massitor is lower set in your jaw and

you know what you want to do is chew cuz it's going to increase your bonial width. But that's just like a a case uh

width. But that's just like a a case uh dependent thing. So you kind of have to

dependent thing. So you kind of have to see like where your mass sits on your ramis to determine whether or not that'll work. Uh it's possible that that

that'll work. Uh it's possible that that would be something that could ascend you quite significantly. And um I don't know

quite significantly. And um I don't know how you >> hairline check.

>> Yeah. Oh yeah. No, quite good actually.

So um >> see as as a white guy I know we already have like naturally you're going to have a bit of a V, >> right? Yeah. No, you got perfect

>> right? Yeah. No, you got perfect hairline. Yeah. Okay. And the the next

hairline. Yeah. Okay. And the the next thing that you could do um I don't know how how old you guys are.

>> I'm 35.

>> Take a guess. How old am I?

>> Uh I should guess. Damn. Or are you you're probably over your 30s around No.

>> I'm 27.

>> 27. Okay. Um, so what I would do for um, like the under eyes usually the first thing to start to go because the way that works is you, you know, facial fat redistributes down your face. It starts

to migrate with gravity. Uh, so under eye concealer is like a good way to like, you know, kind of slap a band-aid on the solution. No one's going to know that you're [ __ ] doing it. So, uh,

all actors, celebrities are doing this anyway. So, that that's like another

anyway. So, that that's like another good soft max. Those are just three like, you know, quick easy soft maxes.

>> I appreciate that. I think that those were the things I would probably do for myself as well. I think these are pretty egregious. Graham and I both have pretty

egregious. Graham and I both have pretty bad eye bags.

>> What do you think about Botox?

>> Uh I'm a big fan of Botox, but people go about it wrong. It's not something that you could do after you've already achieved or after you already aged and, you know, accumulated wrinkles. It's a

preventative measure because the wrinkles occur as you express your face.

So, it's about preventing that.

>> Have you done Botox at all?

>> Yeah, I've done Botox. Yeah, just just one time. But it's just uh um at a med

one time. But it's just uh um at a med spun that I've I've done it myself uh a few times after that, but it's just it's very difficult to maintain. It was

expensive um at the time and it's just like a time burden like that. I don't

necessarily have like I'm not really that expressive anyway, so it doesn't really matter for me.

>> What about sun damage? Just like wearing sunscreen outside.

>> Yes. So, uh American sunscreen is SPF, right? But SPF only protects you against

right? But SPF only protects you against UVB rays. Uh whereas there the UVA is

UVB rays. Uh whereas there the UVA is actually one of the most aging rays as well. Um so you need SPF with PA+++

well. Um so you need SPF with PA+++ which is a another mechanism of protection. It's typically found in like

protection. It's typically found in like Korean sunscreen brands. That's why they generally age better than us, you know, white boys. Um, so you know, going with

white boys. Um, so you know, going with proper sunscreen is is another thing that you could do that really will make sure you age quite better than your average person. Do you ever worry that

average person. Do you ever worry that someone might follow your advice and maybe hurt themselves?

Um, yeah, that's why I'm I'm very careful to like advocate for some of the more intensive looks maxes uh unless they're

either under direct supervision or have done the the research to have a fully comprehensive grasp like uh sometimes like I'll talk to viewers and do like viewer segments on on Discord and people

will start asking me about like tests.

I'll be like I can tell right away. I'm

like you haven't done your research. So,

um I I don't tell people to jump the gun and just like go around half-hazardly promoting people to take exogenous hormones, but um you know, at the end of the day,

it's it's very difficult because, you know, you could say that and people could still take your advice, but at the end of the day, I I still just want to be able to be open and honest with what

I'm doing. Um so, unfortunately, that

I'm doing. Um so, unfortunately, that that's kind of a a tricky thing to navigate. Yeah. What was going on? I saw

navigate. Yeah. What was going on? I saw

a clip on Twitter of you some girl on stream.

>> Yeah, those were lipolysis agents. So

called Aqualux, right? It's a fat dissolver and we were like doing localized lipolysis essentially.

>> Why? Because uh we're going for more facial leanness, killing fat cells.

>> Are you qualified to somebody like that? Um, well, I I'm not like a a nurse PA if that's what you're asking, but who what makes someone

qualified to something that's got essentially no risk profile? You know, I would say that um this might be a little bit egotistical, but I would say I'm probably much more qualified than your

average PA who's doing it. You know, I would say that they really don't have a comprehensive understanding of what the they're doing at all. Now, really quick, let's be honest. A lot of the big phone carriers these days are stuck in the

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So, we previously had Greg Ducet on the podcast.

>> Oh jeez.

>> He sent over a few questions he wanted to ask Cleviculum. I thought you were all about looks maxing. Why are you wearing a Burberry belt while training at the gym?

>> When did I do that? Oh, I Oh, actually, I do remember. Why am I wearing a Burberry belt while training at the gym?

Dude, I I believe I did that on a live stream. We were just like trying on like

stream. We were just like trying on like some new Young LA clothes and like they didn't fit my waist. I had to belt max.

So that was pretty cringe cuz they were, you know, kind of getting on me for not like, you know, doing the milestones of wearing the clothes. So I had to that was like a last minute thing.

>> Okay, here's the next one.

What part of looks maxing involves losing 15 pounds of muscle from avoiding going to the gym while sniffing creatine? Answer me that,

creatine? Answer me that, >> dude. Well, I mean, people don't

>> dude. Well, I mean, people don't understand the content grind. Like, I've

been, you know, all over the place like traveling, um, you know, grinding my ass off, trying to to, uh, you know, keep my momentum going. So, that's absolutely

momentum going. So, that's absolutely not looks maxing. I've been looks mining. I've been actually looking like

mining. I've been actually looking like worse and worse like as I started streaming. Like I didn't sleep like last

streaming. Like I didn't sleep like last night really. I was I was just streaming

night really. I was I was just streaming all night. So a lot of what I've been

all night. So a lot of what I've been doing recently is not like what I should be.

>> So is it safe to say now that looks maxing is not your north star.

>> I would say that like right now uh I'm still following like the same general principles, but I'm just not doing like everything I should be necessarily. Like

I'm I'm trying I'm maintaining like my leanness. like I'm doing all like the

leanness. like I'm doing all like the key things that are the most important, but I'm just not taking it like that step further like with, you know, going to the gym every day uh like I otherwise

would be. So, uh yeah, I guess you could

would be. So, uh yeah, I guess you could say that like content is kind of taken over for like the time being, but I'm going to get back into like the swing of things.

>> So, if looks maxing is not your priority anymore, what would you say is >> content?

>> Content streaming.

>> Content for the reason of what? It's

just something that I'm doing. But I I would say that it's not really just like looks maxing was just like the end all be all and now maybe like it's just par

on par with with content now. But I I still prioritize both of them the be to the best of my abilities. But it's just very difficult. And the way that I think

very difficult. And the way that I think about it, it's like, okay, well, I have to really grind for like and take advantage of the opportunity I had. But

right now, things are like getting a little easier. Like um I'm organized

little easier. Like um I'm organized now. Oh, I have my team, so I have a

now. Oh, I have my team, so I have a little bit more time. So, I'll certainly be getting back into the gym. So, taking

like um a little hiatus from like working out and being like 100% on top of things like that. That that happens, you know. One last question for you.

you know. One last question for you.

Clviculum, have you ever taken your blood work? And

if so, I challenge you to send it to me to see if you're healthy. If you're

ascending, we want proof that you're healthy. If you haven't got your blood

healthy. If you haven't got your blood work done, get it done from Al Goreex.

I'll make a video about it and show the world just how unhealthy you really are.

>> Um I Yeah, I I'd be fully down to to do that. I haven't done blood work in a

that. I haven't done blood work in a little while, so I don't have something that's like up to date enough with what I've been doing. Um but yeah, I mean, I

did like a a simple panel um like a few months ago. I guess we could send that

months ago. I guess we could send that over to him, but I'll I'll do I'd be down to do a more updated one, but I don't think Coach Greg really knows like what exactly I'm doing. I think he

probably thinks it's worse than it is, but we do like similar uh protocols.

Like we're both on testosterone, like we're both on GLP1s. Like I don't I I you know, he does the same thing. I

think he thinks I'm like a new toy figure who's like blasting like grams of gear. It's just simply not true. What do

gear. It's just simply not true. What do

you think of Greg Ducet? I think he's a jester and I think he's disingenuous about a lot of what he does because think about it, right? He ascended and

became an IFBB pro from doing right. He

achieved his result. He uh you know got a great physique and then now he does the content and he attributes to Copelments like cope supplements is what I like to call it. So that just seems a

little bit unfair um to to you know send your viewers down the path of like these random like nonsense like pills that don't do anything rather than like what actually gave you your results. Whereas

I'm simply just being honest about it.

I'm like okay it was testosterone that got me here not you know egesterone or whatever. Yeah I can't really speak to

whatever. Yeah I can't really speak to the e efficacy of like testerone or whatever you know pills or supplements he has. Um, but I do generally agree

he has. Um, but I do generally agree with the sentiment he shared, at least when he was on our show, which is like specific exercises, workout routines, and just eating eating healthy. I know

he has a cookbook, which is totally fine, too. I mean, if you obey the

fine, too. I mean, if you obey the recipes that are in the cookbook, I do think that it will have a positive impact on your physique.

>> Yeah. But at the end of the day, it's not really as much about food selection as it is about macronutrients. Um, so I think if he was like fully honest about like a lot of this stuff, it just would

take a lot of, you know, market share off the table, which is why, and it's like, dude, I get it. It's like, you're an influencer. Make your bag. But I just

an influencer. Make your bag. But I just don't really like, and I would never like have even said anything had he not like called me out and like all over me.

Um, so I'm I'm very okay with now being like, okay, this is like exactly what he's doing. It's just a a marketing

he's doing. It's just a a marketing tactic. like he'll he'll attribute his

tactic. like he'll he'll attribute his results to to garbage a lot of the times and I I don't think it's right.

>> What do you think about Togei?

>> I think Togei is uh is really funny. I

think he's a great content creator. Um

and he he rage baited people. I don't

think Togei is is nearly as like unhealthy or just reckless as he makes it seem like on his content. I think

he's like pretty intentional and diligent about like his protocols. Like

I've talked to like his coaches and stuff. It's really not that over the top

stuff. It's really not that over the top any of the stuff that he does. Um, I

would say that the reason his blood work was really bad and like the Coach Greg reviews was wrecked. So, that's the one thing that you can't really do and that's what I try to avoid is like re at

the same time could be extremely unhealthy. Now, if content right now is

unhealthy. Now, if content right now is your north star temporarily, >> I'm assuming that's because you're doing well at it and therefore you're making a decent amount of money and in social

media could be somewhat fleeting and so you have a small little window to make the most of it. How much of looks maxing are things like a good watch, a car, a

house, how much does this bring you up?

It's not nothing to do with looks maxing. It's just a different just a

maxing. It's just a different just a different measurement. That's would be

different measurement. That's would be more like status or I would say that there's like the looks, money, status like triad. Um, and that would just fall

like triad. Um, and that would just fall into those other categories.

>> But aren't you looks macking looks maxing for the sake of like making your life better?

>> Mhm.

>> And so wouldn't the quality of your life not only be be determined by looks maxing but also like status maxing?

Yeah. But appearance too. Like if you walk in with a Richard Mill, I would say people would rate you overall more attractive than watch.

>> That's a pretty selection.

>> I think they would serve you more respect.

>> Oh yeah. No, absolutely. But

>> which isn't that why your looks maxing is like the halo effect? It's the

status. It's the

>> Absolutely. But I'm I'm not sitting here like looks are the end all be all. Like

you it's the easiest thing to jump a huge increase in percentiles. But I'm of course like yes, go and and status max.

Go and get the nice car. Get the nice house. I'm ab absolutely in agreement

house. I'm ab absolutely in agreement with you. Like there there's no there's

with you. Like there there's no there's no point of contention there. So I I would just say that the Richard Mill thing is comical. I think Richard Mills are pretty But what about driving like a

really nice Ferrari or like getting a great car?

>> I would say that there is no one on this podcast that can actually afford or no one watching this that could afford a Ferrari. I think there's

people who can buy Ferrari. disagree on

this podcast. I would say at least >> 10% of the people watching could buy a Ferrari.

>> Yeah, they No, that's what I'm saying.

They could buy a Ferrari, but they can't like afford >> Oh, no. They could afford a Ferrari. We

have a very educated, businessoriented audience.

>> You'd be You would be surprised right now.

>> I don't know if I would say 10%. That

seems >> Oh, I would say 10%. The people who come to us afterwards who watch the podcast, I am blown away.

>> 10% of them could afford >> I am blown away >> and have it be like a good idea to buy like a million dollar car. I wouldn't

say a good idea, but I mean they could they could buy it, but they can't afford it.

>> Oh, no. They could afford it. I just

don't think it's a good idea for everyone to buy a Ferrari. But

>> Well, regardless, like there there's almost there's not a lot of people regardless of 10% 5% who can actually like get this car and have it be like a good idea until they're like into their

40s. I think that you could make a much

40s. I think that you could make a much larger return taking that money and investing it into a plethora of different things. Like I don't think

different things. Like I don't think that uh having supercars and flexing them is really going to elevate you as much as uh people think it is. And for

like how much you could be putting other things uh at a standstill. I think you could be advancing yourself taking that that money and investing it much

differently would be a much better idea.

See I think in certain situations actually a nice car could take you a very long way. Like it really depends on how you use the car and what circles that gets you in.

>> Well, I I'm going to speak, you know, from my perspective that when people drive like super cars um like I would never like really do business with them.

Like if I see like a a 20-year-old kid um pull up in a Ferrari, I'm like this is either, you know, rented or it's just financial irresponsibility. So I'm like,

financial irresponsibility. So I'm like, nope. You know what I mean? Um, until

nope. You know what I mean? Um, until

you're like 30 years old, there's no there's no shot you can like have a Ferrari and have it be a good idea.

>> So, your your goal isn't necessarily looks maxing then. It seems like it's still sort of like status.

>> It's all of them like they're not mutually exclusive once again. And I

don't know why like people make that mistake so frequently that um looks is just like the key part that was missing from the manosphere conversation. But

all of the other stuff is generally true. But wouldn't you say though that

true. But wouldn't you say though that you could maximize your status, your aesthetics, um just your overall respect maybe that you get if you spent say 100%

of your income on super nice clothes, watches, cars, a penthouse, like you would technically ascend even higher to get access into better groups.

>> Yeah, absolutely. No, you that you're absolutely right about that. I just

don't think it's necessarily like a responsible uh idea. I think that a lot of people in Miami uh are, you know,

like exactly what you said, spending 100% of their income, having no savings at all. They're they're really not

at all. They're they're really not advancing themselves. Uh just to

advancing themselves. Uh just to basically flex on people. It's like a lot of flex culture. And I don't think that's good at all. You know, I I usually know for a fact that these people aren't actually making the money

that they claim. And the whole thing is just like uh sort of for for show. And I

think women kind of like realize this like they know if you're if you're moving well or not. And it's not going to be a car. Speaking of women knowing, what about then wearing makeup and

wearing shoulder pads or lifts, lifts?

These are all things that women could know. They could find out. I mean,

know. They could find out. I mean,

they're the ones wearing makeup. They

could probably detect makeup on a man's face. Yet, this is something that you

face. Yet, this is something that you would advocate for >> all three of those things. Yeah, but not I mean there's it's not the hardest thing in the world to kind of skate by,

you know. I I I would say that, you

you know. I I I would say that, you know, it's it's probably on par with all these things that you're saying about like, you know, pen houses and Ferraris.

It's like I I just don't think that that's necessarily a good idea to blow um through like, you know, maybe a4 million a year renting out like a a

penthouse in Miami. Like that doesn't really sound like a good idea to me.

>> But then what about these other things like makeup and shoulder pads and lifts?

Like you still you like those. Is that

correct? Or is that >> Yeah, I think that there's there's use cases for them.

>> Do you think that it's like you're playing a dangerous game there if you're >> Yeah, but the ROI I would say is pretty good. You know

good. You know >> which one would you say it's highest with makeup?

>> Yeah.

>> So what do you do if a girl says, "Hey, are you wearing makeup?" I don't think that would ever happen unless you're just like egregiously over the top with what you're doing.

>> But let's just say in this hypothetical situation, a girl comes up to you, "Wow, you did a really good job concealing your eye bags."

>> Then you you just say, "Thank you. Just

don't, you know, spike your cortisol."

And then do a better job so it's more undetectable next time. You know, I I know other looks maxers who have gotten like called out on [ __ ] Uh like maybe you go to a bar, you sweat and it like leaks down your face, but it's just a

skill issue at the end of the day, you know.

>> Are you wearing any makeup right now?

>> No, not right now. We uh we're a little bit late to the podcast, but uh no, usually I I would would be fine doing that though.

>> So, what is the worst possible thing to get caught with as a guy?

>> A hair system.

>> So, that is like a toupe. We're talking.

>> Yeah. Like if you get caught like wearing like a a toupe and like it's over like it's generally like finished like entirely.

>> Have you seen that happen?

>> No. No. I've never seen that happen.

>> But there's no recovery from >> Nope.

>> It's done. It's just [ __ ] >> You just have to move on.

>> Yeah.

>> So, what do you advise to people out there that are wearing hair systems?

>> Just be like a professional and not getting caught. I don't know.

getting caught. I don't know.

>> Wouldn't it be better just to shave the head? What do you think about just like

head? What do you think about just like >> No, I don't think so. I don't think so at all. I think the hair system is a

at all. I think the hair system is a good idea. Just know that if you ever

good idea. Just know that if you ever like get caught, you're going to have to like move to a different country.

>> Yeah. But what about like Jason Staithm?

Like just looks great with a shaved head.

>> Well, he's got a top percentile face, right? Of course he looks great with a

right? Of course he looks great with a shaved head.

>> The Rock looks great with a shaved head.

>> Great faces. It's like but they would look better with uh like actually hair, you know? So like, of course, like

you know? So like, of course, like good-looking people look good with, you know, shaved heads, but they would look better with without.

>> Do you think that you're misunderstood?

>> Yeah.

Yeah. And what do you think most people get wrong about you?

>> I think people think I'm just like impulsive and don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm very meticulous and intentional.

>> I could see that you're very calculated >> with everything in life, which is hard to juxtapose with like the usage and stuff like that just because >> 99.9% of people would consider anybody that

touches any of that stuff maximally impulsive.

>> Yeah. But you could be the very very far edge case exception of those things >> which is interesting to talk about but also just in application just so in my

opinion dangerous.

>> Oh yeah. No, I I absolutely agree.

That's why I say like do not take simulance. Do not try to copy what I'm

simulance. Do not try to copy what I'm doing. You know

doing. You know >> what do you think is a criticism about you that's valid?

Maybe that I I could be like a little bit like cold sometimes or like maybe maybe just

>> sometimes like I'll be mean or something like on on live streams. I I could be like a little bit more respectful and have like more humility I guess you

could say. Um so people and you know

could say. Um so people and you know that that's that's probably about about it. And you know, sometimes I get

it. And you know, sometimes I get criticized for making like jokes about like serious situations like um you know, like I've made jokes about like Palestine and stuff like that, but I

don't and that criticism. It's like

yeah, like I get like it's terrible, but um it's just like that that's just the humor. It's just I I mean no no

humor. It's just I I mean no no disrespect like in in action with with what I'm saying. I just like to be able to make whatever jokes I want to make without any restriction or toos

violations.

>> It's interesting because most people that I meet that are your age have a lot more like seemingly energy and like more

upbeat and expressive, but you I noticed you're very like mon not monotone, but like very calm. And I noticed even in a comment on your podcast with Brad

Martin, like it had like 50 likes, so it wasn't necessarily unpopular was like monotone clav. Is that something that

monotone clav. Is that something that you try to be to, you know, come across a little bit more calm and low cortisol or is it just >> nice acknowledgement? Yeah. No, that's

um that's who I am. I'm a very like level-headed like low cortisol person and when I'm trying to deliver my message in a serious context, this is

the tonality that I I take, right? This

is my long form um podcast stuff. But

obviously when I'm doing like an a, you know, very casual setting like desktop stream or I'm streaming IRL, maybe the energy will be a little bit different a

lot of the times because I'm like hyped off off some stimulant or something or um whatever the case may be. But yeah,

no, if I want to if I want to be serious and like have a conversation getting down to like the brass tax of like my ideology, of course, you know, this is the the tone I take. What do you say to

the people who say it's an unattractive trait to focus on being attractive?

>> Well, you always have to conceal your intentions with looks maxing, right?

Don't go around like me. Obviously, I'm

a public figure, so everyone knows what I do. Everyone knows that I hit myself

I do. Everyone knows that I hit myself in the face with a hammer. But as long as you're just not running around telling people, no one's going to know, so it doesn't really matter.

>> Does that make permanent? Is that a permanent solution >> to grow the It's like the zygomatic endurance or whatever it is.

>> Zygomatic bones.

>> Zygomatic bones. Yeah.

>> So, it's these bones right here. Yep.

>> Wolf's law. I like we did a lot of research going into this. So, so you basically state that if you similar to an MMA person's shins, if you continually micro fracture, it will grow back stronger and larger. Correct.

>> And so, it's an attractive trait to have these protruding more.

>> Yeah. More prominent. So that's

something that you have done and you've noticed permanent >> Yeah, absolutely.

>> Growth of those bones.

>> Don't you think that could just be puberty though that you're like still developing your face through the next like 5 years?

>> I bone smash after puberty.

>> See, I just don't even like that that term bone smash. It's like so it's so grotesque and honestly for me it's like I just I just wouldn't be able to do it.

I I I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want my son doing it. Like I wouldn't want any of the viewers doing it. It's just

so like >> if Jack started doing this, I would prompt you to go to therapy.

>> Yeah, that would be my first thing.

>> It's extremely comical bone smashing.

Yeah, I just like the name now that you pointed that out. Yeah, that is actually really funny.

>> But I I I don't know like like do you hope more people bone smash? What is the the goal? As long as there's no like uh

the goal? As long as there's no like uh issues of head trauma, like have you properly brace your skull? I mean, it's not the worst thing in the world. It's

pretty low risk.

>> Have you gone to therapy or has anyone suggested that you try therapy before doing some of these things?

>> No, that's that's never been something that's been necessary.

>> I would love to do an introduction if you would like to with Dr. K.

>> Yeah. Do you know who Dr. K is?

>> Yeah.

>> Healthy gamer.

>> Would you speak to him? Yeah, I would speak to any anyone, but I don't really think my psychological well-being has ever been like an issue of mine. Like

I'd say that yeah, while I may be neurode divergent, like I'd say that's probably one of my strong suits and what makes me like able to succeed as a person.

>> Well, I would I would agree with you on that. Um, would you say that being

that. Um, would you say that being neurode divergent just makes you focus on one thing and wanting to just do that thing and dive 100% into that? Yeah, I

would say that's probably one of the main reasons why I am the way I am.

>> And it just happened for you to be Looks >> Max. Correct. And before that, it was

>> Max. Correct. And before that, it was like there there's like a lot of political stuff. Um, and I would say I

political stuff. Um, and I would say I was I was fanatical about that and then it just seged into Lux Maxing. I tend to think I got to be a little on the spectrum for something because a while

ago I used to be really into reef aquariums as a kid and I got super into that and then it was I got super into doing real estate and then I got super into doing YouTube and it's always like

these different things that shift over time and and then I just all I want to do is that thing lasts about 10 years and then I find some new thing and I'm like I'm going to get really good at that. Do you think that maybe you'll

that. Do you think that maybe you'll start to fixate on something else? Well,

I mean after I've achieved like my desired results and it just becomes like a thing of maintenance to looks max like yeah, but that was always my intention was my intention is not to look max for

the rest of my life. It's to leverage my increase in looks for whatever I decide to do. Again, I would go back to it's

to do. Again, I would go back to it's less about because you will as you what was the term ascend, right?

>> You're going to ascend 100%. I would say that's less to do with your looks and more to do with you getting out on social media, doing extreme things that pushing you into a new category, getting

a lot of views, a lot of money, which will then give you more opportunities.

But I don't think it's the looks itself.

>> Um, you know, that's just something that we're never necessarily going to be able to.

>> So for you, it'll be because of your looks, the better looking you will be, the more money you make, the more status you have. And that's due to the looks

you have. And that's due to the looks and not the content strategy.

>> Well, no, that I mean both are true.

Like it's a little bit of of everything.

If we were to put like a a pie chart together of how exactly that would look, like looks, like personality, like uh content, uh drive or motivation. I don't

exactly know how I would scale that up, but I would say that it's definitely a factor. So, it's it's worth

factor. So, it's it's worth acknowledging regardless of if it's 60% of of the pie, 50%, whatever.

>> What do you think is more important to get women? Do you think it's status,

get women? Do you think it's status, money, or looks?

>> Looks. Absolutely. Without a question.

>> More than status.

>> Yeah. I mean, this is But that's like another thing where it's like, okay, well, how good-looking are you? Are you

like professional actor level status?

It's like that that's why that question like often gets taken out of context and doesn't really make a lot of sense be but if we're talking about like okay we're 80th percentile and looks money

status which metric is going to drive us the results that we're actually looking for it's going to be the looks right whereas if you're like you know 10 million followers on Instagram you know

but you're not necessarily good-looking you might be able to beat out a guy who's better looking than you um and you know less status would you say that you are good with women.

>> I like to hold myself to high standards.

So, I'd say there's definitely room for improvement, but I'd say I I do very well for myself. How would you improve?

A lot of the stuff with women is not how interesting you are at all, right? It's

more like just psychological like tactics, like manipulating women really.

It's like a big part of it. Um, so you know, you you don't necessarily have to be like this welltraveled guy able to talk about like his experience in Tokyo.

You just need to know about like how to spike different um you know neurotransmitters in women and how to you know keep their dopamine going like like that is

>> is that a good or a bad way to attract a woman though.

>> It's the way to do it. Whether it's good or bad like morally good or morally bad it's like I don't really know but the the goal is is to get women. It's not

necessarily like about me moral you know. See, I've seen some of your

know. See, I've seen some of your streams and I haven't seen any of those manipulation tactics. The only things

manipulation tactics. The only things that I've seen from you that seem to work >> is that you're very forward and that you'll just say what's on your mind,

which might have a better result than >> the tactics. Well, unless that is the tactic.

>> Well, that's just that's trolling on a stream, you know? That's not really like a fair like way to show. And especially

when like the camera rig that I use and like there there's like 10 lights coming off, there's mics. It's like ridiculous.

So women are not acting the way that they otherwise would be if I were talking to them in like an off camera context. Um like the camera makes it a

context. Um like the camera makes it a lot harder cuz like women like want to like clout chase like look at me. Like I

see a lot of chicks on TikTok do this.

It's like um I I went to this house party where there was like literally multiple girls that I had, you know, slept with previously who want to be like performative for the camera like,

"Oh, I rejected Clav," you know? So,

it's like, "Okay, bitch." Like, you know, >> but that's still just I I'd like to think that that is like just the Miami crowd. I think that like the behavior

crowd. I think that like the behavior will be different depending on where you're at quite substantially. Like, I

can't imagine.

>> You're not wrong. And you're also going not only you're not you're not only in Miami, but you're also going to house parties in Miami with influencers and with people that speak a certain way,

act a certain way. So that's kind of like fringe behavior. Yeah, you're not wrong. I mean, but once again, I

wrong. I mean, but once again, I wouldn't exactly like say that what I'm doing or what I'm talking about is what I recommend people do, like the way that they talk to women. It's just I'm going

for stream clips, you know, so it's not really even worth acknowledging that.

How much do you consider morals with what you do and preach online?

>> I'm like an ends justify the means. Uh,

sorry, the means. Uh, you know what I mean? So, I I don't necessarily care too

mean? So, I I don't necessarily care too much about like what I need to do to accomplish a result if that's what you're asking.

>> So, you're objective oriented and you don't necessarily care if what you're doing is right or if it's wrong.

>> Uh-huh. Correct.

Have you ever been in love?

>> Um, that's hard to say. I don't really know. I'd have to think about that a

know. I'd have to think about that a little bit. It's a tough one.

little bit. It's a tough one.

>> What would you rate your happiness out of 10?

>> I wouldn't really rate it. I think that that's just like a silly >> I disagree.

>> H being like happy.

>> Yeah.

>> I think that's extremely silly.

>> Why? because it's like the thing that I prioritize is like being driven, having like a purpose, being ambitious. It's

like the, you know, not a lot of the things that I do on a day-to-day basis are like the most enjoyable. Like, you know, doing work isn't enjoyable a lot of the

times. Um, but it's just something that

times. Um, but it's just something that like needs to be done. Like going to the gym, it's not like an enjoyable thing for me, but I do it anyway. So, I have

like no regard for like my happiness.

Like that seems like a very like uh immature idea.

>> Why is that immature >> to to prioritize like being happy?

>> I'm not saying that you can that you need to prioritize it to assess it, but you can still assess it without it necessarily being a priority.

>> But it's just like happiness as an idea.

Like men aren't like supposed to be like happy. I don't really think

happy. I don't really think >> Why are men not supposed to be happy?

>> Because life is hard and um >> can't you enjoy difficult things? Not if

you want to succeed to the highest level that you possibly could.

>> Does a man need to succeed to the highest level that he can?

>> No, they don't need to do anything, but I certainly want to.

>> But if you want to, so you know where your happiness lies if you were to assess it.

>> What would you rate it out of 10? I

think that it's a totally fine thing to measure people. Sure, you can go the

measure people. Sure, you can go the philosophical route of like why even, you know, are we discussing happiness?

What is happiness? But you could chalk it up to joy. You could talk it up to enjoyment of life. Um, you know, where would you say you are on a scale of 1 to 10?

>> I would say that um I'm pretty low. I

mean, I don't I don't sleep. I don't

really do I I haven't uh like done anything outside of content for like months now. Um I don't even have time to

months now. Um I don't even have time to go to the gym. So, I would say that, you know, like my overall well-being would certainly have taken a hit from like the content that I'm doing, but it's worth

it. It's just like how how it has to be,

it. It's just like how how it has to be, you know.

>> And so that reminds me, I know I'm not going to compare you and Elon Musk, but it reminds me of Elon when he says, "I'm so missionoriented that, you know, are am I happy?" Not

necessarily, but I don't devote my life to, you know, happiness is not a priority of mine.

>> Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. And I'd

say that's like a very like um neurodeivergent mentality to have. And

that's why I think that like a lot of, you know, successful people often, you know, are on the spectrum for autism and stuff like that is because they're capable of this. Like if I were to, you

know, go and and do something that like made me happy, like go play video games or uh, you know, just go do like jester activities, go like bowling or something

like that, um, or go hang out with girls, go to bars, whatever the case may be. I would not be positioning myself in

be. I would not be positioning myself in the most optimal way possible. So that

would and having that in the back of my head that when I'm doing like things like that, I could better be using my time and and prioritizing myself much better. I would not be able to enjoy

better. I would not be able to enjoy anything. I sort of disagree. I think if

anything. I sort of disagree. I think if and I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. If you're an influencer, I think

this. If you're an influencer, I think being able to convey happiness, joy, like viewers like to have positive influences. They like to watch content

influences. They like to watch content and feel good about it or at least feel something. And if you if you can bring

something. And if you if you can bring some sort of clear joy or happiness to your content, I do think that that could actually serve you, you know, business-wise like Togei, you know, all of the largest influencers like David

Dori, you know, Mr. beast. They all

built their success off of kind of some sort of at least positive spin, like a a happy thing instead of >> there's an emotion to it.

>> There is an emotion to it. And don't you think that like that would come through in content if we're just talking entrepreneurally?

>> I think Mr. Beast is a textbook sociopath um who as soon as the cameras turn off from what I've heard is just like a a robot that has no >> I would disagree with that.

>> Yeah, we've spent a lot of time with them. No cameras, no nothing. He loves

them. No cameras, no nothing. He loves

what he does.

>> Yeah. He'll crack jokes. He'll be like >> He is funny.

>> Yeah.

>> And you could argue, "Oh, well, that's because he's around other influencers.

He knows they'll speak about him." No,

we were playing like soccer with him after filming with him and just >> and he was playing till like midnight and then went down and we were like reviewing Instagram reels and like he's

>> we went to go film with him and then afterwards he's like, "Hey, we're going to all go play soccer at, you know, in the backyard of this house that he has and it's got this big lot and he has these soccer goals set up and he invites

all of his friends over and he's got a little shed with a bunch of cleats and he lets us wear his cleats and, you know, borrow some of his clothes." He He was about having fun and just being positive.

>> Yeah. There's a lot of stuff he's he's done for us that 100% he didn't even need to do. Like I would have been happy just getting an hour with him for a podcast.

>> Well, the thing that I'll say is I've I've talked about like and identified a lot of like sociopathic behavior from influencers over the past year and I've

never been wrong. So, um

>> But you haven't met Mr. Beast?

>> Yeah. and I haven't met a lot of these people that I've analyzed. Um,

>> and how would you say you haven't been wrong if you haven't met them?

>> Well, I'm just I'm saying, you know, right now, uh, you know, I'm not 100% sure that that I'm correct about Mr. Beast, but I'm I'm saying that I've never been wrong before. And as I, you

know, see more and learn more, um, and, you know, potentially get into the same spaces, I I think I'll I'll know for sure. But, um, I really wouldn't be

sure. But, um, I really wouldn't be surprised if if I were correct on that and Mr. Beast. But regardless, um, doesn't really matter because I actually

do enjoy making the content. It's it's

just all the backend stuff that's extremely draining. You know, it's not

extremely draining. You know, it's not the content itself. I I like being on a live stream and I I typically do enjoy it, but it's just like, you know, dealing with all the the backend stuff

is a nightmare, as you guys probably know. When's the last time you were sad?

know. When's the last time you were sad?

Um, last time I was sad, probably last year when I got expelled from school and like, you know, my parents were like had wanted nothing to do with me was was kind of a rough one. I didn't really

know what direction my life was going to take. Why'd you get expelled for

take. Why'd you get expelled for How did they catch you? Um, someone sent in an anonymous tip into my university

and they came. I got back to my room and there was just everywhere. Um, you know, there was like the campus police and I got booted out.

>> Why were you even in college in the first place? That seems kind of

first place? That seems kind of antithetical to you. It seems like less of a disagreeable person decision to go to college.

>> Cuz it's just something people do and I didn't have any direction in life at the time. You know, that that's literally

time. You know, that that's literally what college is in in the modern context is just like, okay, you graduated high school, now you have to go to college.

It's not like a pursuit of of higher intelligence or uh becoming like a well- read person. It's just not what it is.

read person. It's just not what it is.

College is a whole it's it's a complete joke these days.

>> What would you say is your biggest insecurity?

>> Wouldn't wouldn't say I'm a very like secure person.

>> You don't have anything you're insecure about?

>> Not really.

I know that might come as like a surprise, but um just my my thought process for everything is is not the

norm of of my community of LooksMax. I'm

coming from a place of pure objectivity and I'm just trying to improve a metric I know is valuable.

>> But even if it's not physical insecurity, it could be a mental insecurity, emotional insecurity.

I I mean potentially I wish I was more like socially adept, but that's it's like a very like small thing that doesn't

really hold that much value in my life.

Like I'm unable to really resonate with like a lot of of people. Um like for example like you know the the hobbies

and interest of like your everyday person I just find to be so ridiculous.

like sports or you know like watching movies like I wish I could just like enjoy that kind of but I don't know I've always hated

like football so much and that was like a big thing that kind of made it hard for me to like fit in with people like everyone goes you know to to a bar on Sunday to watch football but I'm like I would literally rather do anything else

you know >> I'm similar I could relate to that I I don't get into sports unless I have money on the game. Yeah, I know. That's

>> And then it's more about I want to win that bet >> than it is about the game.

>> There you go.

>> Do you think a man should ever cry?

>> I think it happens. I don't really necessarily think it's a bad thing. I

think people deal with um immense loss a lot of the time and that's just like a natural that makes you human. It's

almost worrying sometimes. Cuz if like the loss you endure is is great enough and you don't cry, that's probably like a worrying sign that you're like

somewhat psychopathic or have like a, you know, a bit of trauma potentially.

So I'd say it's it's a very normal thing as long as you don't make it like a residual cope for the rest of your life if like a relative dies. It's like that acute reaction seems very reasonable to

me, but as long as it doesn't hold you back, you know.

>> When's the last time you cried? Um, it's

probably like, you know, around like a year ago >> had to do with the expulsion.

>> Yeah, just like not really knowing like what to do with myself kind of thing.

>> So, if a viewer wants to know how to life max, what would you recommend?

>> Viewer wants to know how to life max, I would say that um, increasing your social skills by working in a restaurant. for a lot of

the young guys is one of the things that benefited me the most. Learning how to deal with figures of authority, whether that be your boss, learning how to deal with your peers who are your co-workers,

um is an experience that you're going to learn at an early age. and simply being able to converse with, you know, a different clientele, whether you're a hostess, whether you're a server, uh,

all these different jobs really helped me increase my social skills quite a bit because I had to learn, uh, like body language when people actually didn't want to talk to me or, you know, picking up on cues like, hey, like, let's let's

make some small talk, which was something I was horrible at up until like pretty much like earlier this year was when I kind of got my head on uh, with that kind myself. So, working in a

restaurant, I would say, shaped me and made me the person I am.

>> I would argue sales, just learning doortodoor sales.

>> Well, that's also that's an similar concept. I mean, that's probably even

concept. I mean, that's probably even better, right? But,

better, right? But, >> um, I don't think many people are going to be able to >> jump straight into doortodoor sales and you also lose like the dealing with

figures of authority, like dealing with a boss and like um that kind of thing.

And also just like being around people your age who are your co-workers is is another good thing. Like it's a social thing. I really like working in a

thing. I really like working in a restaurant for for young guys.

>> So in terms of your business, are you comfortable saying how much money you're making?

>> Um I mean I'll just say what I make on streaming because I've I've said this before. Like

probably like between like 80 to $100,000 a month. Is that just from ad revenue while you're streaming or is that also from brand deals and sponsorships?

>> No, that's from like donations like and um what we call KCIP. So, it's basically ad it would be like the Twitch equivalent of ad revenue, but they just pay the creators. What do your expenses

look like? I reinvest all the money I

look like? I reinvest all the money I have into just like technology. I don't

pay any rent. I don't have a car payment. Um, so I basically my expenses

payment. Um, so I basically my expenses would just be like food and anything that's content related. Like I'll

usually have to pay for like security or um different accommodations for doing higher roll streams, things of that nature.

>> Are you investing any of it?

>> Not at the moment. You know, I was just talking to my accountant that we're just going to wait like another 6 months before the 401k uh investing starts. Um,

I just really have no take-home at the end of the month as >> you're spending that much.

>> Um, like yeah, but I didn't really like start making money until like this month. So like um well probably not

month. So like um well probably not spending that much like there there's like obviously take-home, but I would argue you don't really need a 401k.

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz to lock the money up for that long might not be in your best interest given that you have a short burst probably of a lot of money coming in. It might be better just to open up a taxable

account. Do some in a 401k, but keep it

account. Do some in a 401k, but keep it mostly in a taxable index funds diversified or maybe a Roth because you're young.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I I told him I was just like I don't even want to I didn't like commit to doing it in 6 months. I said I don't even want to have that conversation for 6 months as it stands.

Um but yeah. No, so just like basically been reinvesting everything. And I would say like another expense would be like I recently just bought like a a sprinter

van um for just like you know traveling and being able to have a computer setup on the go like and be able to stream. So

that was like another thing that I I spent a lot of capital on. Um so you know I I'm not too well versed. I've

been kind of just trying to incorporate and set up like, you know, all the different business entities like to, you know, protect my assets and and stuff like that has been a priority of mine. I

haven't really dove too deep into like, you know, the whole Roth set up and all that. Just trying to get everything like

that. Just trying to get everything like legal and and, you know, start dealing with taxes cuz it's the first year I'm going to have to pay taxes, you know.

>> Yeah, that'll turn you real quick when you start to see how much they take in taxes. Maybe not this year because

taxes. Maybe not this year because you're you're spending so much money.

Yeah.

>> I bet your taxable is going to be pretty little. But next year if you do well,

little. But next year if you do well, >> man, that that uh every every quarter you start making those estimated payments, you see how much money is going away and it just

>> gets you going. It just pisses you off.

>> I'd say >> and you it just evaporates. It's a

cortisol spike. That's what ages me so fast is you write these quarterly checks to the IRS and you say, "Where does the money go?" And then and then I start

money go?" And then and then I start thinking all the things I could have done with that and it's gone.

>> I don't really think I'm going to owe more than like five figures of taxes this year. I'm not going to even break

this year. I'm not going to even break six figures.

>> Okay. Well, count your blessings and then next year you're going to start to get that cortisol spike. We're going to start to see wrinkles forming all around here from the stress of paying taxes.

>> Yeah. No, I'm I'm definitely going to take a big hit, but there was a lot of write-offs this year for sure.

>> This is a looks maxing tier list.

>> All right. You put Accutane as an S.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. One of the best.

>> I took Accutane.

>> Um, let's do I'm actually going to put that B tier. I

think that confidence and charisma uh largely is going to be like genetic.

It's not really something like that you could just do. You just either are or aren't. Um,

aren't. Um, >> so you can't improve charisma if if you're >> No, you can improve charisma, but it's largely going to be, you know, you're either charismatic or you're not. And

the improvements that you can make are going to be very marginal. Um, I did bone smashing as B tier. Color theory

with clothing, give that like a C. Decreasing body fat, it's going to be an S tier thing. Eye

contact certainly going to be context oriented, but it's definitely going to be an important one for like more business setting stuff, but eyebrow grooming.

Like these are all good. Like don't get me wrong, it's just like comparatively.

>> Yeah. Hairstyle.

Yeah. Hair transplant. Hair is life. And

if you have no hair, you have no life.

Makeup's certainly an A tier. Looks max.

That's crazy that you put makeup so high. Wow. Mewing, let's give that like

high. Wow. Mewing, let's give that like a C tier. Once again, comparatively, extremely necessary during development, you know. Micronutrient sufficiency,

you know. Micronutrient sufficiency, C. Outside of puberty, not that

C. Outside of puberty, not that important, especially acute deficiency, it's not going to matter that much.

Money, it's certainly going to be an A tier thing. Peptides are going to be

tier thing. Peptides are going to be I'm going to put them B tier. It's

really like reddish tide and melanotan.

All the rest aren't great.

S tier. Shoulder pads like C tier.

They're not that good. Sleep quality.

Okay. Uh that's going to be an A tier as well. Teeth whitener. Give that a C. The

well. Teeth whitener. Give that a C. The

gym, give that an A. So, I'd say that's uh that's my Looks Max tier list.

Clvicular, thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee hour. It was really interesting. Uh I feel like I learned a

interesting. Uh I feel like I learned a lot. I will not be going home and bone

lot. I will not be going home and bone smashing >> for the record.

>> I might.

>> Graham might. He definitely needs a little bit more zygomatic growth. So,

but anyways, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Happy birthday,

by the way.

>> Thank you guys. Appreciate it.

>> I appreciate you doing it on your birthday of all days. And

>> the grind the grind never stops.

>> It doesn't.

>> Thank you guys so much for watching.

Till next time. See you.