I Watched 6 AI Agents Design an App Together And It Blew My Mind | Tom Krcha

Those cursors, it seems like a small touch, but it's the first time I have seen AI humanized. It feels like there's someone there. It's crazy. It's just a

someone there. It's crazy. It's just a cursor, but it's like so much more we can do.

>> Just seeing these cursors here is like pretty amazing.

>> As soon as you click on pen file inside cursor, it opens in this like visual editor.

>> That's mind-blowing too, dude.

>> So, see how fast it was. This is

composer. It's really amazing. Here we

go. So, this is the generated basically react next.js website from that design.

We launched um full G8 weeks ago. Got

100,000 users now.

>> It shows you actually that like craft and care still matter. I think I would not be as blown away if those cursors were not on the screen and there wasn't like a Asian chat right below.

Okay. Hey everyone. Uh I'm really excited today to host Tom. Tom is the CEO of Pencil, which is uh generally one of the most exciting AI products I've ever seen. like um it basically is a

ever seen. like um it basically is a product where a swarm of AI agents can design anything you want and yeah I I was blown away by it. I was generally blown away. Um so welcome Tom.

blown away. Um so welcome Tom.

>> Hi everyone. Thanks Peter for having me.

This is exciting.

>> Yeah you know I I showed your product to uh my designer and then she shared it with all the design group uh and and they were like should we like be worried

about your jobs or what's going on here?

So so yeah dude it was it was amazing.

Yeah.

>> Awesome.

>> Why don't we just show the people here like how amazing it is? Do you want to like just try try it?

>> Just going to share my screen real quick. And uh this is Pencil. Uh it's an

quick. And uh this is Pencil. Uh it's an app that works on Windows, Linux, Mac, and we also have plugins uh for VS Code,

Cursor, Anti-gravity, Windsurf, and all of the VS Codebased ids, you know, and it works really well with Cloud Code and Codeex and all of the um existing

agents. And a lot of people actually

agents. And a lot of people actually like to my surprise, they want to bring their own agents. So they've been using it with open code and all sorts of different CLIs that I've even never heard about, you know. So you can

essentially like make it yours, plug in your own agent, you know, but you know this is how it looks like. So it's it's like a design tool. So you can create like a frame and you can like manually

start designing here. But like now in this age of AI, why don't we invite, you know, AI to design something for us. So

what do we want to design, Peter? Tell

me.

>> Um, you know, I've been to like a lot of really cool countries and places and I want to keep like a travel log of places I've been, you know, like Yeah. like

most places are more fun than America.

So >> yeah.

>> So design a mobile app for u you know travel log and booking or whatever. Um

>> use beautiful imagery and photos of cities in Oceanania maybe.

>> Sure.

>> Uh and you know do we want to like uh >> Yeah. You got to turn on the you got to

>> Yeah. You got to turn on the you got to turn on swarm mode. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Let's do that. you know, so you can obviously let one agent design, but like one of the most exciting things that we have recently shipped is that you can use splentg um we can just choose the amount of

agents we want, you know, like let's actually use six, you know. So, uh

design three screens, two agents working on each screen. Yeah. And then, you know, you can also pick like a style guide that you want to go with or you can let uh the agent to pick one for

you. So, let's, you know, let's get

you. So, let's, you know, let's get surprised. Actually, let's get

surprised. Actually, let's get surprised. You know, it's going to pick

surprised. You know, it's going to pick something for us. So, now it's going to start the agent. It's going to analyze the request and it's going to create a to-do list for us and uh it's going to

pick a style guide and it's going to distribute the work across all of these agents, you know. So, now we have Cloud Opus 4.6 six working and it's going to

start these like sub agents and they're going to start communicating to each other and u start designing for us you know so yeah now we can see the cursor phantom over there >> mh

>> and uh it's going to start the agents and uh yeah start designing so >> it's going to start it's going to start six sub agents right and you gave them names like Amber >> yeah actually like a lot of people ask

like can we like customize the names of these agents you So now I'm working on this feature where you will be able to name them, you know, as whoever you want, you know, maybe your friends or

whoever. Uh, so yeah, should be fun.

whoever. Uh, so yeah, should be fun.

>> Yeah, dude. Like I mean just just seeing this like seeing these cursors here is like pretty pretty amazing.

>> Yeah.

Yeah. you know like it's it's really interesting because like we we had this whole parallelism kind of built and I was like man but I have like no idea which agent is working on what you know

so even for debugging purposes I was like why don't we just like put a cursor there so we can like see who is working on what and then we can like debug if something went wrong you know and like we build it and I was like oh my gosh

like this is magic it feels it's like it's so humanized you know like uh like AI usually is just like very It doesn't feel like, you know, one of us

essentially, which it isn't, you know, but like these cursors like working on that screen on that canvas. It really

feels like there's like actually someone behind it, you know, making these changes >> and is it just generating code that looks like this or is it like doing something else?

>> So, it's it's it's generating basically like a descriptor for the design. And

then what you can do, you can essentially ask it what kind of code you want to convert it into because like we wanted to make sure that it's sort of platform agnostic.

>> Okay, >> for instance like this you want to convert into Swift iOS or Cotlin because it's a mobile app or React Native. So it

wouldn't really make sense to like generate this in like HTML and CSS because like this will go to Swift you know or whatever. So we have this platform agnostic file format. We call

it pen. It's essentially just JSON based format. We wanted to really build this

format. We wanted to really build this format uh to be like agentic from the ground up and um yeah so we have a documentation for that format on our website. You can build plugins around

website. You can build plugins around it. People have started building all

it. People have started building all sorts of different converters. Uh we

have seen a plug-in that converts pent file into Figma and into Lovable and into like all sorts of different things you know and so on. So yeah,

>> got it.

>> And we'll we'll get to that, you know.

So maybe uh after this we can design a website for this >> and uh ask it to actually generate code for us and look at that.

>> This episode is brought to you by linear where engineers use tools like cursor clock and codecs. A lot of work happens invisibly. Someone can go from a bug

invisibly. Someone can go from a bug report in Slack to a shipped fix without creating any record of what happened outside of the code editor. And that's

fine for speed, but it makes coordination harder as you scale. Linear

integrates with the very best agent coding tools directly like cursor and codeex. That way anyone can see what an

codeex. That way anyone can see what an agent is working on and who assigned them to the task. You get the speed of agents without losing visibility across the team. Product teams at OpenAI ramp

the team. Product teams at OpenAI ramp and block are all using linear to collaborate with AI agents. And I use LIR myself to run my creator business.

So check it out at linear.app/agents.

That's linear.app/agents. app/ aents.

Now, back to our episode. And how are you getting the images? Is like using Nano Banana or something?

>> Yeah. Yeah. You know, you can you can plug in all sorts of different image generators. Uh we have a few of them and

generators. Uh we have a few of them and we're always like >> checking out what's the latest best, you know, and plug the best one in there.

So yeah.

>> This is great, too. You should, you know what you should do? You should introduce some more banter between these agents right now. Just kind of like saying, you

right now. Just kind of like saying, you should just have them like argue with each other.

>> Yeah, it would be really cool.

Yeah.

>> Um, they should actually speak, you know, why not? Like we should plug in some 11 laps or something and they should just talk to you.

>> Yeah, that would be amazing. And and and this swarm feature is pretty new, right?

Like it only was released like last week or something.

>> Yeah, actually this week uh it I mean this week has been so long, you know, so much has happened. Uh but it went out on Tuesday and uh it already went viral and you've seen it, right? And thank you so

much for the for the tweet by the way. I

was like so shocked when I saw it. So it

was amazing. Um,

>> no. Yeah, it's it's amazing. Like I I I think maybe previously the product only had one cursor. I guess

>> it didn't have any cursor. It was just like an agent putting things in. You

could run like multiple chats >> and they would like start working kind of in parallel, but it wasn't like the true parallelism. It was useful when you

true parallelism. It was useful when you wanted to like spin out a different variation or or something like that. And

like so for instance like here what I can do is like I can now basically say like actually redesign this into like

this style. So what I can now do is like

this style. So what I can now do is like redesign uh the screens into this style and u it's going to go and it's going to

you know read the style um guide and and uh start working on it. And then

obviously you know in the demo that I was showing um online we had like agents working on social media graphics website

and mobile app sort of in tandem at the same time. So like you can go really

same time. So like you can go really easily within like minutes uh from just an idea into something where you can just collect the thoughts and uh one of the things that where this is really

interesting is that sometimes you don't even know what you want to build and like people today like really quickly jump into cloud or like u you know one of these uh by coding apps and start building an app like you don't even know

if you want to build it you know and like what if there's like multiple things that you wanted to do actually completely differently and so on. So

yeah, >> think of pencil as this like visual planning mode of sorts. You know how you have like plan mode and cloud code and in cursor. So this is like the visual

in cursor. So this is like the visual planning mode where you can like visually plan things and then you can sort of u once you decided this is what I want you know then sure awesome like

build me this. Yeah, this is interesting because I I think any real designer is not just going to design one thing like they want to they want to diverge and explore a whole bunch of different op options and then they kind of converge

into what they actually want, right? So

>> yeah.

>> So yeah. So like you know being able to explore different designs like ideally actually you kind of I I can actually look at the designs side by side and just like pick pick one.

>> Exactly. you know and this this is this is the constant feedback that I've been hearing from a lot of folks you know and I think a lot of the bite coding platforms they basically are very like linear and sort of serial like you do

one thing and you click in one thing but like actually you want like 20 different variations compare them side by side maybe divert branch and so on and like I

have seen tons of design files throughout my life and like all the designers they have like crazy mess in their file files because it's exploratory mode, you know, you're just

like ideating, you're trying different things, you're comparing, you're copy pasting a lot and then once you decide, you're like, "This is it." Then you make a spec and sort of like a PRD around that.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And and um and anyway, d I'm I'm just watching this now. I'm I'm still blown away. But I I I

now. I'm I'm still blown away. But I I I do think I I do think the cursors in the UI makes a huge difference. like in

difference because >> if I use cloud code I I can theoretically do this too but it's just generate a bunch of code that I can't see >> but you know be able to see this happen is like a game changer. Yeah,

>> it's it's you know like it's actually really hard. I mean like sure like a lot

really hard. I mean like sure like a lot of um these platforms they're now going into parallel mode you know >> they're like assigning different roles

to different agents and so on but I what I what I wanted really to do is to have plism with same roles of agents you know in a way that they're doing

non-conlicting changes you know that they figure out how to split up the work in parallel in front of me still use the same really powerful ful model like OPUS

but do it like three times faster because they were able to essentially um split the work.

>> Yeah. And and this something that like a human can actually look at and understand, you know.

>> Yeah. Like you know if I use clock code I I can spin up like three different terminals and have them do the work but I have no idea what the hell's going on until they actually finish the work. But

right here I I can see. Yeah.

>> Exactly. And then you're like okay cool u build me this and now we can go for the coffee and come back later because you know they have the plan they know what to build you know so and that's

that's a huge difference it's a world of difference >> you actually have a website right you have another file with a website >> so I mentioned in the beginning that you

can use pencil with all sorts of uh different tools and one of them is cursor and cursor is really interesting because it also allows you to use like

different models uh and you can sort of like contrast and compare. So here we are inside of cursor and u I have this

um sort of file that I have built previously and um >> well hang on this is actually inside okay so you just open coffee shop.pen

pen file in cursor.

>> Yeah, exactly. So, as soon as you click on pen file inside cursor, it opens in this like visual editor >> and that's mind-blowing too, dude.

>> Yeah. So, we have built our own our own custom editor essentially inside cursor and this is where we started initially, you know, and then we started building

these apps around it and so on. So, now

this works in all of these apps. So it's

basically a design tool baked into cursor you know and all you have to do for that is to just go to extension store and uh find pencil and install it and it will just start working right away.

>> Okay. So how do So now we have this thing. Yeah. So how do we actually build

thing. Yeah. So how do we actually build this thing?

>> Yeah. So like one of the really cool things here is that I can use the cursor agent here. So I have like all the

agent here. So I have like all the models here like composer for instance you know and composer man it flies. It's

kind of amazing. It's super fast. So,

for instance, like let's say I want to turn this selected frame into light mode. Okay. And I'm going to like hit

mode. Okay. And I'm going to like hit enter. It's going to scan that and it's

enter. It's going to scan that and it's going to uh start working on that.

>> Oh, wow.

>> Okay. So, like the agent can actually interact with this pen file.

>> Yeah, exactly. So, see how fast it was, you know, like this is composer. It's

really amazing, you know. So like that's sort of like um the flexibility you get you know when you're working within cursor and within other tools you know you can like sort of mix and match different models and so on and so on and

so on and uh it's kind of nice workflow as well and now what we can do is turn this into code you know which is obviously the step where we wanted to

get in the first place you know now we have designed everything and we're like okay I want this in the code so for that I'm just going open a new

chat. Let's say I pick opus this time

chat. Let's say I pick opus this time and I'm just going to say and I can you can actually copy this and paste it here. So now it says coffee shop pan

here. So now it says coffee shop pan homepage. So it's the name of that frame

homepage. So it's the name of that frame and I just say like generate code for this frame

uh in React Tailwind uh what was it? Node.js sorry uh Nex.js

JS and um and run it on port 80 8080 in the browser. Okay. And now it's going to

browser. Okay. And now it's going to scan it. It's going to also like analyze

scan it. It's going to also like analyze all of these uh different parts of it and it's going to start generating code for it u from that visual representation

you know and you can see and this is like the cursor agent here.

>> Okay. So now it's actually generating the the HTML and everything.

>> Yeah, now it's generating the HTML and React and everything. And like honestly you can decide you maybe already have an existing codebase and this is where like

pencil power really comes together or to fruition because like you might already have like existing code base and uh the idea about pen file really is that it's

this you know JSON I can like right click on it and I can open it in in the editor here. So you can see it's just a

editor here. So you can see it's just a JSON.

>> So all the >> Yeah. And all the agents

>> Yeah. And all the agents >> can read it and can write it. And that

was the like original idea that this is like agentic new agentic format or design format built for agents from the ground up. So the idea is that this file

ground up. So the idea is that this file goes into git and in the git like either in the cloud or with your co-workers anybody can work with that file. You can

create a library of components and so on and so on and so on. Um so while this is working I wanted to show you actually a couple more things. So you can set up

variables for things which is basically just like a CSS um file you know um and you can use these variables across the document you know so at that point it

just keeps using the same things also we have like bunch of uh design components uh in here. This is for instance chaten.

And uh you can also just like change it to dark mode and change it to like some different tone and maybe you want like a

violet or green sort of accent for that.

And these are like tons of different shots components and you can so right away you can start designing with them in here.

>> And u yeah now it's running the website.

So let's see what's going to happen. And

here we here we go. So this is the generated basically React Nex.js website from from that design that we had here, you know, and yeah, that's it.

>> Brilliant, man. Yeah. And and then and then if I um let's say I want to change the title or something or move some but button around. So So I just go back to

button around. So So I just go back to the pen file, right?

>> You can go to the pen file, you can change it there. You can go to code. You

can also go uh and you know use the cursor tools here. But you know this is basically that source of truth you know.

So yeah >> but but but if I change it in the code does it reflect in the pen file is it?

>> Well you have to ask lm at that point you know to update it in the design because you change it in the code you know so like there's no like live realtime change you know like ideally maybe down the road who knows but uh

right now you just ask LM to tweak it.

Yeah.

>> Okay. Before you were showing me the chassis and uh so there's a bunch of design systems saved here somewhere.

>> Yeah. So we have a bunch of design systems and uh there are these like pretty advanced components like this is a table it has slots so and so on but anyways we have these like prompt nodes

which are like >> readymade sort of sticky notes with different prompts that you can save into the documents and uh I'm just going to stop this. It's already like finished.

stop this. It's already like finished.

and uh I can like prepare for my colleagues certain prompts to generate something or I have like a team of PMs or designers on my team and I want to make sure that they you know come from

the same uh set of rules. So yeah

>> here I just click run and this is going to send it to the cursor agent and it's going to start designing on this canvas.

It's going to read the components. It

needs to see how it's like reading things. And now it's going to start

things. And now it's going to start composing those things on on this screen right here.

>> Oh, using the components.

>> Yeah, using the components. Exactly. You

know.

>> All right, dude. You blow my mind again.

So here we can say like mode and I can also turn it into dark mode and also like while it's designing I can you know start editing that which you know you know that but like this this isn't this

isn't like obvious for most of the people that like you can sort of like under the hands of the agent already touch the design and start changing it.

And this is probably the biggest sort of shift in like how you think about this whole thing because when like a typical bite coding app creates something. It's

not like you can go in there and start like changing it in real time. You have

to like always wait until it's done and and so on. And that kind of gets you out of the flow. Whereas like this canvas workflow keeps you in the flow. And

that's such a major difference between like this workflow and the other workflows.

>> Uh yeah, it's like a pain in the ass to have to prompt AI to change some text or like move some stuff around. So it's

totally better just like use it yourself. Yeah.

yourself. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And that's where this idea actually started. I was like, I just

actually started. I was like, I just want to be able to draw some stuff and tell agent to build me this because it's so much faster for myself and many other

people to just draw a button versus like describe what the petting should look like and the colors and style and all of these things uh should feel like because

like often times you don't even know.

You have to like see it first and then tweak it and then say this is what I want.

>> Yeah. Um, and and and dude like I I feel like one of the major innovations is this pen file. Like I'm I'm surprised.

So is it's just JSON and it has like a bunch of like so it has like numbers for padding and stuff.

>> Yeah. Essentially it's like a full description of um think of this as like agentic PDF or like if if PDF was designed or built, you know, in this new

era uh for of AI agents, this is probably how it would look like.

>> Got it. Okay. This is super this is super awesome. Now, now I'm going to ask

super awesome. Now, now I'm going to ask you about like the history of this product, dude, because it's like super impressive. Um, how long have you been

impressive. Um, how long have you been working on this? Like when did you start working on this?

>> Yeah, we started like early last year and essentially um I was just poking around with cursor and clothe code and all of these tools. I was building

something else like this uh uh project and uh and realized like it's so much energy to write the UI to the chat and explain it to the agent how things

should look and feel. Why can't I just draw it and I looked around in different marketplaces for VS Code and so on and I couldn't find anything. So

>> quickly uh put together a prototype, put it out, it got like 1 million views across like LinkedIn and and X >> and uh I was like wow this is it seems

like people have a similar problem uh so to speak and um we got into A16 at speedrun went through speedrun and um

yeah the rest is just a story. We

launched um like the full G8 weeks ago got 100,000 users now and uh yeah seems like it's it's a big problem for people

>> uh 100,000 users. Is it mostly like um like designers, solarreneurs or companies or all the above?

>> Yeah, this was also like surprising to me. So I think Mark Anderson was just

me. So I think Mark Anderson was just recently talking about this Mexican standoff between like VMs and uh designers and engineers. You probably

heard it, right?

>> Yeah.

>> And um I think we're essentially all becoming makers. Uh designers graduating

becoming makers. Uh designers graduating into design engineers, engineers now wanting to tackle more things than just code. Essentially just like managing and

code. Essentially just like managing and running full projects or full sections of projects. And now PMs are feeling

of projects. And now PMs are feeling like so empowered to be able to create >> and also like it goes way beyond that.

Um, a friend of mine uh just recently called me and he was like, "Man, I love pencil. I've been using it." I was like,

pencil. I've been using it." I was like, "What you?" He's a marketer, you know,

"What you?" He's a marketer, you know, like he he's a guy who works um uh as a marketing guy within this company and he's like, "I love it." Like, I picked

up cloth code immediately. By the way, cloth code in desktop app, you know, not even in terminal. and he uses that with pencil and he completely rebuilt

website, marketing materials, ads, u you know, PDFs, they they use like technical specs for for salespeople and so on. I

was like, "Wow." So essentially, it's this AI designed canvas right in the middle of everything. And uh you you kind of make it yours honestly. Like

obviously we have like advanced components and uh all sorts of different things for enterprises. We have like enterprises using that for for this specific purpose to like um convert

their design systems into pen format and make sure that it lives in the git. This

is the source of truth for everybody now. But there is like more and more of

now. But there is like more and more of these um people who like had no preconception of like coding and are now picking up coding thanks to pencil as

well.

>> I mean this is so much of more fun than you know uh writing code by hand or even as a designer like making all those layers and like drawing some boxes.

>> Yeah, this is way more fun man. And

often times like so how many people told me like um man like I had uh like five projects in a drawer I didn't get to them and now I'm finally like thanks to

pencil like seeing them through because it's so much fun to just like see what it would look like and uh with a lot of these other tools it's you know like you run into these errors like couldn't

compile something and like a lot of the people are deterred by that and like they just give up uh versus like in pencil you can just see it. Does it make sense? That's cool, you know, let's

sense? That's cool, you know, let's pursue it further. Doesn't make sense, fine, just scrape it, you know, but at least now you know.

>> Yeah. And and there's like so many vibe coding tools out there, but yours is one of the first that actually is visual first and and like I think that makes all the difference like um and and do do you know if like I can actually

collaborate with other people in this thing too along with the AI agents?

>> Yeah, we don't have like multiplayer per se uh right now.

>> Not yet.

>> Yet. Yeah. And u but what you can what how we have seen people mostly collaborate is through git they and also like if you talk to a lot of designers they they tell you that um it's like a

great way to hand off things uh to devs and uh and so on. So yeah.

>> Yeah. Okay dude. Well I mean were you always an entrepreneur or I I should have done my research but were you?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Uh before this I worked on this app called around uh it was like a video conferencing app. Um

conferencing app. Um >> okay. It was like these little circles

>> okay. It was like these little circles uh on the desktop. You would use them on top of like different multiplayer tools.

It was very popular during co you could like put a filter on and and so on like games in there. Uh a lot of startups and teams were using it for collaboration.

It was more fun than zoom >> and u mirror acquired that and u yeah and you know even before that I had another startup uh in like 3D avatar space and before that I worked at Adobe

for like a decade you know. So, and

before that, yeah, I was an evangelist for uh for like the creative cloud products and I worked on design tools as well, you know. So, got it. And be

before that, like my parents had a design agency. So, when I was a kid, I

design agency. So, when I was a kid, I would always like hang out with the designers uh in the design agency and they would teach me how to use like different tools from like I started using Photoshop,

pagemaker, all of these tools. And

eventually I was like I don't like necessarily print design because like web was sort of like starting to happen in like late 90s.

>> And so I started picking up all sorts of things like HTML and PHP and and so on.

And uh but eventually I fell in love with Flash because it was like this first app where you could like design and code.

>> Yeah.

>> At the same time. And I think for a lot of people it really enabled them to be creative. And uh I think ever since

creative. And uh I think ever since flash we haven't necessarily seen a similar paradigm where you would be like designing coding in one place and I

think now with vibe coding it started to happen again because suddenly it became like too complex in a way like it was like all these frameworks and like backends and so on. And now bite coding

brings a lot of that initial fun we used to have back in the times before all these complexities happened and different platforms and screens and responsiveness and mobile and this and

that. You remember all of that right? So

that. You remember all of that right? So

>> uh >> up until this point and specifically up until this point like maybe like November December last year when these agents really started to become

incredibly powerful. Now, anybody can

incredibly powerful. Now, anybody can build like a mobile app almost, you know, like not saying that like it's going to be the best app in the world and they're going to ship it like necessarily and uh it's going to be

secure and everything, but like they can build things and like that wasn't necessarily possible before. So, yeah.

>> Okay. Got it. Okay. Okay. Just last

question like how how are you building this company because you know you're right in the thick of things and how are you building this company with AI you know like AI agents or like which part which parts are humans touching? Which

part is this AI do to to do it >> like how are we building the company or >> or like the sorry the product the product yeah >> I would say like honestly like a lot of

lot of the ideas I mean like I have like long history long history of um like building these kind of experiences and tools and products from the past.

>> So it's like a personal passion almost and I think for a lot of the folks on the team it's the same thing. uh bunch

of us worked on kind of like similar things in the past or 2D and 3D tooling and so on. So it's it's a personal passion for for a lot of us. Yeah.

>> Okay. Okay. Awesome, dude. Um what's

what's next, man? You're gonna you're gonna may may maybe Adobe will try to acquire you. You better be careful.

acquire you. You better be careful.

>> Yeah. Well, honestly, like there is so much unexplored now. Now that we have like shipped the swarm stuff, I was like "Wow."

like "Wow." >> And now the whole world of like ideas is slowly like opening in front of me. Like

those cursors, >> it seems like a small touch, but it's the first time I have seen AI humanized.

>> Yeah.

>> And it feels like there's someone there, you know, and it's crazy. It's just a cursor, you know, but it just makes you feel like that.

>> It shows you actually that like craft and care still matter cuz like I I I think I would not be as blown away if those cursors were not on the screen and there wasn't there wasn't like a a As a As a As a As a As a As a As a As a As a As a Asian chat right below.

>> So it actually still ma matters.

>> Yeah, it's really funny because like imagine that the agents just wrote that JSON and you would have to like reopen the file >> like >> Oh, that would be terrible.

>> And but that's essentially what happens in the background, right? technically

speaking, >> but like all of these little things matter so much and they make a world of difference, you know? So, I just hope that like more and more people in the

world are going to start thinking in a different uh in in this way about like LLMs that we can really give them face.

>> Now, this face is this little cursor, but it's like so much more we can do.

>> Yeah. How do you make it transparent what they're doing and also give them some personality? Like that that makes a

some personality? Like that that makes a huge difference for us. Yeah,

>> totally. Like so many people like like I said like so many people ask me like can I rename these agents?

>> Yeah, rename them. Give them like little personalities like you know have have a Peter PM agent that just ruins the design.

>> Yeah. Or they can like fly to each other like uh you know do high fives and whatever.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They can like fly from like specific place. I mean there is like so much um stuff. So yeah.

>> All right, Tom. Well uh I'm I'm blown away. Um I I'll try to get John to let

away. Um I I'll try to get John to let me invest in your company or something, but uh yeah. Yeah, keep keep going, man.

You have something very special here.

>> Yeah, I really appreciate it. It was it was great chatting. Thank you so much.

>> Yeah, thanks so much.

>> Yeah, and and by the way, like if you want to download it, go to pencil.deaf.

Uh you can also join our discord. We

have a button there, join discord. Uh

there's thousands of people discussing their creations, designs. they're

sharing them with everyone asking for features and reporting bugs and uh all all the great feedback is super much welcome. So uh yeah, let us know uh when

welcome. So uh yeah, let us know uh when you try and we're here for you and you can DM me uh on Discord or on Axe. So

yeah, thank you so much.

>> Yeah, you better get your servers ready, man, because this is going to take off.

So yeah, get get ready. Yeah. All right,

thanks.

>> Cheers.