IM8 CEO on building the ‘world’s fastest-growing supplements brand’ backed by David Beckham

We had a billion dollar valuation. We

list on the NASDAQ.

Today's guest is Danny Jung, co-founder and CEO of Prrenetics, a breakout name in consumer health and the leader of IM8, which builds itself as the world's fastest growing supplements brand.

Prenetics is the parent company of IM8, which has already attracted global stars like co-founder David Beckham and ambassador Arena Sabalanka, who also serve as investors. Did you always

expect to be operating this kind of orbit? Because not every founder would

orbit? Because not every founder would necessarily be as bold as to say, "Hey, David, you want to come on board and be my co-founder?"

my co-founder?" Correct. If you never ask, you will

Correct. If you never ask, you will always get known.

But the man behind all of that is Danny, a serial founder who first got on the road to entrepreneurship by bringing iconic Hong Kong dessert chain Hashan to the US and has since worked on everything from venture capital to COVID

and genetics testing to health supplements to a new bold bet on Bitcoin.

We've chosen to put in excess cash into Bitcoin. We've been buying one Bitcoin

Bitcoin. We've been buying one Bitcoin on a daily basis.

Full disclosure, Krenetics is a partner behind the business and we're grateful for their support this season.

IM8 has a potential to be one of the world's biggest supplement brands in the world in the next 3 to 5 years. This is

very, very, very likely my last company.

I want to go all in on this and build this to a truly global brand.

Danny, thanks so much for joining us.

Thank you so much, Marcela, for having me. So before we get into the company, I

me. So before we get into the company, I would love to start with you. Can you

walk us through your background, you know, where you grew up and what really shaped your ambitions early on?

Yeah, so um thinking back, right? So I I went to the US um when I was age five.

Yeah, basically was I was born in uh Hoya, China. Uh my my parents immigrated

Hoya, China. Uh my my parents immigrated to US at the age of five. So I went to US of course I didn't speak any English.

I just learned it through school. Um and

I started in a way working at a very young age. At the time I didn't really

young age. At the time I didn't really know any better but you know at the age of 12 I was actually you know started selling baseball cards right you know I went to there was this baseball card shop near near my home. So every day

after school I would you know visit it.

I would you know buy baseball cards at one point. Then the owner's like hey

one point. Then the owner's like hey you're coming in every day why don't you just you know work for me right? And

then at the time I was like okay fine.

And you know he didn't even pay me. He

just paid me in baseball cards. Uh but

you know that was my first real business moment because then it was really about understanding you know about buying and selling.

Wait tell me again what age were you when this happened?

Uh when I was 12.

So it wasn't even necessarily a conscious thing you set out to do. I'm

guessing like you didn't know you wanted to go and start your own business early on but it sounds like you had that drive. You know at the back of my mind I

drive. You know at the back of my mind I also do remember when I was also like maybe around the same age 12 I was telling my you know classmates hey as one day my dream job is to be an

entrepreneur or a CEO because and when I went to the US you know my parents were very poor right they didn't have any money so I kind of already figured out at a very early age you know how I can

create my own destiny was to be my own boss at one point of course I didn't know you know what I was going to do uh but yeah but I always wanted to be and entrepreneur at a very young age.

Take control of your own life.

Yes.

You know, um I was going to ask as well.

I think I heard that you were a telemarketer at one point. Like you were just very scrappy with being able to convince people and sell people on ideas. Is that right?

ideas. Is that right?

Yeah. At age 15, that's when I started having a real first job, I would say. So

I was a telemarketer, right? So I

remember I'll be working at, you know, basically 6:00 p.m. till like 9:30 p.m.

and would be selling time shares on over the phone, right? Uh yeah. So it taught me a lot, right? Because I think as a telemarketer, you you're faced with rejection on a nightly basis, right? And

then you just have to number one overcome it very fast. Um have a very thick skin and in the shortest amount of time possible have to convince the other person that you don't know. Yeah. To

take an action.

And that worked.

Yeah, it worked right. I mean I remember it is like I think after six months of being a telemarketer and I was literally like managing people in their 30s, right? And this was I think I wasn't

right? And this was I think I wasn't even 16 at that point because a lot of the telemarketers at that time they're like homemakers or other maybe a little bit either they're ether very young students or they're like in their 30s or

40s as homemakers. They want to make an extra income, right? So I had a lot of experience um at a young age and it was like really good money. I was like 15 and this was like literally like 30

years ago and I was making like you know 15 bucks an hour, right? So I was very very happy as a teenager. Did you then continue working pretty much the whole time since that age or what was the kind of you know transition there?

Yeah, I think you know transition wise I was always I was working I was kind of going to school. I wasn't really going to school. I got you know I can mention

to school. I got you know I can mention it now that of course you there's there's some level of success I've been able to achieve. Uh but growing up in San Francisco at that time was it was

quite a difficult time. Yeah. For me I actually got kicked out of three different high schools.

Right. So, uh, and for the same reason for like fighting, right? So, you

wouldn't, if you look at me now, you're like, "Hey, that's the last thing you would envision myself being because I'm usually very calm, thoughtful, and and and strategic." But when I was early on,

and strategic." But when I was early on, it was like, you know, I just felt like, yeah, I I always had something to prove, I would say. And then, you know, I I

didn't even graduate high school, right?

So at that time I got a GED which is kind of like the worst thing you would want your kid or child to have right which is called a general education diploma. Uh and then I I got that like I

diploma. Uh and then I I got that like I think at 16 right and then ever since I just been you know kind of working.

You know it's so interesting because some of the most successful founders that I've talked to they didn't really care about school. They always just learned by doing. And I wonder if that was something that you just knew early on like I just so much prefer working

and like being doing practical hands-on work versus studying.

Yes, correct. I mean I was how I mean I tell my team I was definitely never like books smart but I always understood and got things very fast and it was like I was I mean in a way those teenagers I

grew up kind of on the streets right just kind of learning everything uh hands-on experience and even with work right it was just really learning about you making mistakes and fine-tune it and you know before starting Prenetics

it seems like you had nine lives for those who don't know let's just walk through your CV briefly you were a founding partner of an early stage venture fund you founded a company called You Buy I Vi, which was essentially a deals platform that was

snapped up by Groupon, where you later served as CEO of Groupon East Asia.

You once even had a stint in the furniture business, I read. Uh, but

probably my favorite one of the lot is that, as I mentioned, you helped bring Hong Kong's iconic dessert chain, Holo Shan, to the US. Um, what a journey, right? What were some of kind of the

right? What were some of kind of the highlights of these experiences that still really inform how you lead today?

I started huran back I think at that age I was like 24 right and again that was I always wanted to be an entrepreneur but I knew I needed some work experience and capital to get there right and then so I

had work started working from you yeah full-time wise from 18 to 24 at internet company so I had a really great experience in terms of hey basically work learning and how to scale you know

as an employee and then when I had the opportunity to uh you know bring hyosan into Hong Kong I mean from Hong Kong to the US. Um, and that was just really by

the US. Um, and that was just really by Yamper. Again, going back to my

Yamper. Again, going back to my telemarket days, I didn't have any background in in business. So, I

actually co- called the head office of Hy Loan and asked them if they would be interested to bring Hiloan into the US because I really like Hoy Loan at the time. I was thinking, hey, how come this

time. I was thinking, hey, how come this doesn't exist in the US? And then, so I co-au called Hloander like, hey, can you send me a business plan? I I was like, what? Uh, I never did a business plan

what? Uh, I never did a business plan before, right? And then so I went to

before, right? And then so I went to Google and typed in Google how to make a business plan. Then I bought a you know

business plan. Then I bought a you know business software license for 40 bucks and then like three days I got out like a 40page business plan and send it back to them and for somehow they accepted my proposal.

Right. That's hilarious.

Um and it was just drew by you know sheer determination and just kind of trying to figure things out on my own.

Yeah.

Uh and being a great researcher and still to at that time was Google right now of course has evolved to like using like AI tools.

Yeah. Yeah. So fast forward 2014, you started Prenetics. You have said Danny

started Prenetics. You have said Danny that the vision from day one was to turn Prenetics into a global health company.

What does this really mean to you and what initially drew you to the space in particular? Did you always have an

particular? Did you always have an interest in health and wellness?

Yeah. So maybe just to back up a little so give everyone a little bit more context in terms of because I was living in the US and then how did I actually yeah come to Hong Kong, right? Uh and

then 2010 um was you know my friend just sent me a text. Yeah. Um I was like hey have you

text. Yeah. Um I was like hey have you heard about Groupon? I was like no I have I haven't heard about Groupon. I

clicked the link uh and I read that they just raised $950 million at that time right at that time wise they were the first company to hit like $1 billion in revenue within like I don't know some 12

or 18 months some crazy metric or something like that. And I was like, "Wow, amazing business idea, great concept. Consumers win, merchants win."

concept. Consumers win, merchants win."

And I was like, "Hey, how can I take this business concept and launch it somewhere, right?" And then I knew I

somewhere, right?" And then I knew I can't launch it in the US because they were already very big at that time.

They're already valued like two three billion dollars, right? Um, and I was thinking, hey, you know what? Where else

can I launch this? And I within a month of finding out about Groupon, I moved and packed my bags and moved to Hong Kong. Um, and this was March 2nd, 2010.

Kong. Um, and this was March 2nd, 2010.

I still remember vividly because it was so yeah monumental because then I literally moved from US to Hong Kong because I wanted to start the same concept and I knew speed was critical

because opportunity someone doesn't wait for you, right? So you have to take the opportunity when there's time.

And then March 2nd moved to Hong Kong June 28th uh 2010 basically in span of three months. I had no e-commerce

three months. I had no e-commerce experience at that time. Then we

launched the platform the website in both Hong Kong and Taiwan. And then six months later uh we racked up about 1 million monthly in revenue and then group one then started going

international and then they're they started looking to acquire the market leader in each city internationally.

uh and then yeah ended up they acquired 51% of Ubay by at that time then I became the East Asia CEO from 2010 to 2014 and we led it to being the you know

largest e-commerce company region right and then that's very relevant to what we're doing now where I'll share with you guys later on in terms of IMA because that gave me so

much background experience in e-commerce consumer yeah digital marketing performance marketing the leadunnel landing pages and your customer acquisition, all that stuff. Right.

Right. That was your first fora into like D to C.

Yes. Correct. Yeah. At a at a at scale.

Right.

So much to unpack there. Okay. The first

followup is why Hong Kong is that like just where you your family has ties here or?

No, I had no ties to Hong Kong actually.

I zero ties because again I moved from mainland China to the US. Um Yan is fine, right? But I just felt like hey,

fine, right? But I just felt like hey, you know, Hong Kong could be a great place. However, when I moved to Hong

place. However, when I moved to Hong Kong to even tell people about this concept, everyone actually told me to go back to the US and said this concept will not work in Hong Kong because they're like, "Hey, the rent's too

expensive." And the key thing is nobody

expensive." And the key thing is nobody used ecommerce at the time. No one used the internet to buy things, right? But I

felt like, hey, if we deliver on a great product and we have great marketing, then consumers will pay for it. And

ultimately, that's what they did.

And how did you even go about setting that up? because it sounds like it all

that up? because it sounds like it all happened at rapid speed, right? Because

you said within three months I then like was up and running and all that. Did you

you had a co-founder who was your buddy I assume?

Yeah, I had a co-founder took care of more of the the finance piece, right?

But let's say getting supply on the merchants, getting the website operationally. I mean, that was all

operationally. I mean, that was all like, you know, me and and we only had like yeah, a few people on the ground, right? So, it was a really big grind in

right? So, it was a really big grind in the beginning. So that gave you kind of

the beginning. So that gave you kind of your foundation into what you launched now. So let's talk about Prenetics

now. So let's talk about Prenetics because obviously this has been your baby now for more than 10 years.

Tell me a little bit about the vision that you had initially starting out and how that's kind of evolved over time.

Yeah, correct. So when I left Group One, it was, you know, April of 2010 and then after, you know, I wanted to actually I was thinking about taking a break, right? I didn't know how long of a

right? I didn't know how long of a break. Then I started you know in

break. Then I started you know in between investing early stage companies because I just had a you know good exit from group on right. I think in the summer I've got really fascinated um with 23 and me. I was like yeah because

I found about 23me I was just fascinated that you can find out so much information from just a saliva swap right and then I started doing lots of research. I was thinking research in

research. I was thinking research in terms of the science you know how to actually do it etc etc right and then I was fortunate to be able to you know find a few you know co-founders

basically that came from the geneticist and science background u to be able to create prenetics and then the basis for that was hey I think I was you know I

think was mid-30s at the time um I had just had my first daughter and then health was becoming much more important right and then I was thinking hey you uh there was very few healthcare

entrepreneurs at that time there still is right but you're thinking about 11 years ago was very little I was thinking hey how come yeah if if there isn't why don't I do that and then so that's why I you know started prenetics and the name

comes from prevention genetics because I felt if you have more data about yourself you know the more you can proactively live healthier and it sounds like that doesn't ever stop you from going into a new field you

know like the lack of previous experience in that direct field right because health and wellness It's it can be intimidating to people, right?

Yeah, very intimidating. Especially when

you're talking about genetic testing, DNA test. So, even at that time for

DNA test. So, even at that time for funding and investing, they're like, Danny, you you just went from selling coupons and how what do you know about DNA testing? Right. So, it's a very very

DNA testing? Right. So, it's a very very wide gap. Yeah. But again, I I think I'm

wide gap. Yeah. But again, I I think I'm a quite good, you know, researcher. I

like to read a lot uh about Yeah. If I'm passionate about something, I'll go very in depth to understand every little detail about the product and which right now if you put

me in front of any scientist, doctor, professor, I can have a very very you know great intelligent conversation uh with them.

You can hold your own.

Yes.

Yeah. Okay. So in the early days then what were the initial challenges when it came to scaling up and even just getting things running, right? Because you

talked a little bit about funding. I was

curious even you know when it came down to financing did you go out and raise right away were you bootstrapping initially how did you approach that?

Yes. And the biggest challenge was really the science piece, right? Again,

trying really understanding that. Um,

yeah. And just doing lots of studying.

And again, I wasn't the one, you know, in the lab per se. That was, you know, uh, Lawrence, my co-founder, but again, um, he previously had a separate company, but again, it's and he had

great science. Yeah. But he didn't

great science. Yeah. But he didn't understand how to commercialize it, right? So you so for me I came in kind

right? So you so for me I came in kind have to understand the science and then put a commercialization model on top of it right because then then that's only where you succeed and then initially

when we we came into it um it was you know I think myself and a few investors we put in roughly two and a half million USD into the business um to get started and then of course you

know we've had you know follow on uh funding rounds after that right I see and what were some of the hardest things I guess when it came to tackling that. You said the science bit

tackling that. You said the science bit was obviously something that you had to overcome, but it sounds like you managed to overcome that. Was there anything else that surprised you about the space that you really felt like was a challenge?

Again, DNA testing globally was very new, right? But I think in Asia, it was

new, right? But I think in Asia, it was even more new. Yeah.

Right. Because I think naturally, I think a Asia there there's a uh lag time of about, you know, three to five years, right? When it comes to like Yeah.

right? When it comes to like Yeah.

health solutions and then so I think one of the biggest challenges early on was actually getting people to pay for it, right? Because I

think well early on wise and I just came from direct to consumer. Um, logically

people thought I was going to sell the DNA testing kits online, but I did some tests like consu customer acquisition tests, but the acquisition costs were way too expensive, right? That to make

it uh profitable, right? So then we never did DTC initially. So we went to B2B TOC and so when went to B2B, it was actually working with large insurance

companies, right? Like AIA, Credential,

companies, right? Like AIA, Credential, uh, Manual Life, etc. to offer them DNA testing value added services. Yeah. To

their uh client base. Yeah.

Um Yeah. So, yeah. So, somehow we were able to convince them to offer it to their c to their clients uh as a way for them to know more about their health.

I was going to ask who which businesses did you target? But, uh that actually makes perfect sense actually when you think about it. So, I have to say, Danny, I first came across Prenetics as a user, um, as many people did here in

Hong Kong where we're chatting today because obviously one of the reasons that you guys first rose to prominence, I think, in the general public was as a major COVID test provider here, right, during the pandemic. Um, which of course

was a huge opportunity for businesses like yours. So can you kind of talk

like yours. So can you kind of talk through going through that period as well as you know what really happened following that because I imagine there's a story

early on during the co time period right it was like March 2020 um and then all of a sudden I had like you know multiple friends reached out to me just text hey you know Danny do you

guys do uh PCR testing right and the first few times I responded with no right it's like hey we don't do that we're DNA testing company right and then after like maybe the fifth person said the same thing. We're like, "Hey, then I

talk to you my science team and say there's something here, right?" And then when I did more research at the time, it was very difficult to get a PCR test.

Yeah. You had to go to the hospital was very expensive. I remember that time was

very expensive. I remember that time was like, you know, $500 $600 USD just for a test. But the the challenge with that is

test. But the the challenge with that is if you wanted to do a test, you don't want to go outside. You don't want especially you don't want to go to a hospital. Right.

hospital. Right.

Right. And then so then you know in the span of maybe about two to three weeks then we came up with the first at home uh saliva PCR tests right and then

basically we just ship it yeah from our laboratory to this individual's home in Hong Kong and every day we we sold out with like was very little right at that time we just wanted to help the community and we sold it you know pretty

much at the time at cost was like hundred bucks USD compared to $500 when you're getting to at a hospital right So we just sold you know 200 200 tests a

day and we're completely sold out. Uh

and then I remember uh yeah even in that was April in 2020 we had a meeting with the former chief executive of Hong Kong Carrie Lamb and we're saying you know what we have this capacity we have this

laboratory uh you know you know what you guys need help right to be able to uh test the community. At the time they rejected us, right? They say, "Hey, we don't need help. Uh, you know, we can do

this by by ourselves, etc., etc., right?

Thanks, but no thanks."

Yeah. Correct. Exactly. At the time, right? And then what happened is Yes.

right? And then what happened is Yes.

Then, of course, then the pandemic got worse and worse, right? And then we were scaling uh but of course we don't we didn't want to just wait for the government. We want we were scaling from

government. We want we were scaling from like you know 200 tests on a daily basis to I I think at one point was like yeah 600 700 tests on a daily basis. And then

when the pandemic got really bad starting in July, we had a further follow-up meeting with the government.

They're like, "Hey, you guys been successful already with this, you know, at home PCR test. Can you help us scale out this further?" And they're like, and they're like, you know, what do you mean? I'm like, hey, you know, we want

mean? I'm like, hey, you know, we want to do mass testing on any was at the time 18,000 restaurants um and 300,000

uh restaurant workers. And then we're like, "Yeah, how long will we have to take?" Right? They're like, "We want to

take?" Right? They're like, "We want to do it as soon as possible." And they like, "Hey, we want to do it in four weeks time, right?" Um, you know, and it it was quite crazy to us at the time,

right? But basically then we dropped

right? But basically then we dropped everything. We we basically completed

everything. We we basically completed that I think in literally four weeks time, tested 300,000 uh workers across Hong Kong. And then yeah, those three

Hong Kong. And then yeah, those three years. Yeah. again we could then we

years. Yeah. again we could then we didn't we never intended to like you know do millions of PCR tests but what happened in Hong Kong was there was at

one point I think like 10 to 15 different providers but the majority of the providers they kept messing up somewhere in terms of giving false positives false

negatives the data security wasn't good logistics wasn't good etc and then so we're the only one that the government kept coming to us they're like hey can you do more can we do more and then we

end up at a height doing 40,000 PCR tests on daily basis. We operated few of the testing centers. We operated all of the testing at the airport. So any

individual that we came on the airport, you would need to do a frenetics PCR test on arrival, right?

And so those three years was like I think at one point we had like 3,000 people. It was you know quite crazy

people. It was you know quite crazy because it was literally 24/7.

But what happened postco? Because I

understand you dismantled that side of the business.

Oh yeah. So of course right in the middle of CO and again just kind of thinking strategically we're doing you know quite well right so we utilized the opportunity to uh list on the NASDAQ. So

uh in May 2022 we list on the NASDAQ uh we had like a billion dollar valuation at the time because co was still ongoing the revenues was like quite high. I

remember each of those three years we were yeah in total we did 800 million revenue uh in three years right which is quite crazy because in 2019 one year prior to

co we did 10 million in revenue so we went from 10 million to like 250 million in revenue so postcoid at the end of you know 23 right so of course our revenues

dropped very significantly because there was no more testing and I think one luck one good thing that we did is that once we knew you COVID was going to end we

dismantled the team very very fast. I

mean that was for the benefit of the company and also for the employees because at the end of the day you know if we had kept that going our fixed cost would have been way too high

and then so that's where I think a lot of the companies for example in the US you know there were at least you know four or five companies they also listed there were like PCR co testing they also

list their company they had like two three four billion dollar valuations u and they're all now bankrupt or they're no longer listed because they They stayed at it a little bit too long.

Um, and for us, we we made definitely made the right decision looking back that we dismantle that team very very fast. So, we can focus say, you know

fast. So, we can focus say, you know what, we know CO's not going to be there and then we have to move forward with a new strategy, right? You know, laying off your team

right? You know, laying off your team obviously that's never easy. And on this show, we love to ask people what their toughest day at work was. I imagine that that must have been one of the hardest times for you though, just as a human,

of course.

100%. Right. Because again a lot of those people they were very instrumental as well. Yeah. In those three years,

as well. Yeah. In those three years, right? And then but yeah, I knew from a

right? And then but yeah, I knew from a peer business perspective wise it was actually the best for them because everyone needs to kind of move on otherwise Yeah. They're sitting in the

otherwise Yeah. They're sitting in the office with nothing to do. Yeah. Right.

Because there was no testing. Right. So

it was good for for both sides uh to be able to you move forward as fast as possible. Can I ask like what percentage

possible. Can I ask like what percentage if you remember of like your headcount that was at the time because I imagine that was like a pretty big like subset of your your employees at this point.

It was it was probably like 90 90 plus percent.

Oh wow.

Yeah. Yeah. Because we had like few thousand people right at that point.

Yeah. That's wild. So one of the pillars that Prenetics started next was Incida uh $200 million joint venture focused on early cancer detection. You've

previously announced the development of $200 tests that would allow you to detect certain types of cancer with a simple blood draw. These are obviously a really big goals. Can you share an

update on where this is now?

Sure. Um so after co we again we had cash from the operations as well as from the IPL. So we made an investment um

the IPL. So we made an investment um into incita which is early cancer detection company. Now we're not

detection company. Now we're not operating the company right. So it's a little bit different you know but of course we believe u that in the future yeah having a easy way to u identify

cancer at the earliest stages is going to be a big breakthrough for individuals yeah here in Asia and around the world right so in terms of where that company is um is also co-founded by professor

Dennis Low which is the godfather of non-invasive prenal testing we're still a good you know few years out before commercialization uh but we do feel there's significant you know potential with that.

And last October, I did see there was an interesting announcement about Insighta scoring a $30 million investment from Chinese tech giant Tencent. Yeah, that

must have been very nice.

They're the only other investor in Inita. And again, we our stake in Incita

Inita. And again, we our stake in Incita is valued at $70 million. So, it's a decent chunk. Um, and yeah, we've been

decent chunk. Um, and yeah, we've been very happy for them coming in.

How did that deal come together? Because

it's not every day you land a whale like that right?

Yeah. So I think um for you know Tencent or or some of the larger companies nowadays you I think they're all trying to get into healthcare right and especially you know with Tensen they the the strategic aspect there is the AI

piece right so we're utilizing the AI algorithms to improve the sensitivity and specity of the test speaking of milestones another high point of this journey is one that you alluded to just now which must have been

going public right in 2022 Prenetics headed to Wall Street and became the first Hong Kong unicorn to list on the NASDAQ. What did that moment mean to

NASDAQ. What did that moment mean to you, Danny, especially, you know, to represent the city in this way?

I would say I think it was a proud moment for Hong Kong in general because again, it's quite rare that you can, you know, bring, you know, Hong Kong to the global stage, right? And listing the company on NASDAQ. Uh, it was certainly

a milestone for myself. I mean, in the early days of Prenics, I I had visions.

I said, "Hey, one day, you know, we're going to list on the NASDAQ." Of course, I didn't know how, but I just had that idea um at the time. Um yeah, so you know, starting was a very memorable moment for us.

Yeah, I see a trend emerging here. By

the way, it's just like, you know, when you were that kid selling baseball cards and you were thinking about how you wanted to make your own money. Um you

know, but you didn't know how and you just went after it. It sounds like you are the type that has that goal in mind pretty early on. Um, as with many other postback mergers, you know, Prenetics

has seen pressure on its market cap over the past couple of years. How are you approaching this? And what do you want

approaching this? And what do you want folks to understand about, you know, where the business actually stands today versus what the stock price might suggest? One of the key challenges I

suggest? One of the key challenges I would say since listing you on the NASDAQ you know three years ago again I was I was new I was a new public company CEO so there's a lot of different

challenges lots of investor stakeholders that you have to deal with so when we listed we're like you know $1 billion right I think in the last three years I think the low point we went from $1

billion I think at one point our market up was like you know 30 to $40 million right so of course our revenues dropped significantly and And I think in 2025

um I mean this year right so our our share price you know went from $30 $40 million now I think is today's like $240 million. So it's made quite big recovery

million. So it's made quite big recovery since our lows and do believe the business has never been more healthier or more sustainable than it is today. So

in terms of where we are today wise I mean this year fully year revenue we're going to be again this is all public information we'll hit roughly about 90 to 100 million revenue. uh a significant

majority of this revenue is coming from IM8 uh which is the new brand that we've launched with you know David Beckham just yeah literally 12 months ago right your new baby we'll get to that

yes yeah um you've spoken about wanting to build Prenetics obviously for the long run now as a public company obviously you also report to Wall Street every quarter it's the age-old question right how do

you navigate that tension between delivering on short-term investor expectations versus you know staying being focused on the long-term mission.

Give an example, right? So, let's say like 12 months ago, right? So, 12 months ago was, you know, when we just launched IM8, I had a lot of investors reach out to me at the time said, hey, you know, uh, Danny, you should be doing, you

know, more, you know, road shows talking to investors, blah, blah, blah, etc., right? So, but my view at that point

right? So, but my view at that point was, hey, you know what, I didn't have a story to talk about. So, there's no point for me to talk to investors if I personally don't believe I have a story to talk about. Right? So, I was like,

talk I will talk to these guys in a year. That was my message a year ago,

year. That was my message a year ago, right? And that's exactly kind of what

right? And that's exactly kind of what happened in terms of a in the last past year, I've been very very focused on growing the business basically from Z from scratch to whereas today our market

cap of course has grown significantly in the past 12 months where it was 12 months ago and now I'm actually going out to talk to more investors uh and yeah because now I have a story to tell

and this is a great growth story.

Yeah, absolutely. So your approach was, you know, let me get heads down on this and I'll come back to all of you later.

Yes.

What metrics do you pay most attention to as a leader? I'm curious to, you know, gauge the company's health at a core, right? It's basically, you know, from, you know, revenues. Yeah. To

our balance sheet, right? So I think again this year, uh, you know, we're we're growing immensely fast. Yeah.

We'll hit 90 to$100 million. Uh, we also have a very healthy balance sheet, right? So our balance sheet, we have

right? So our balance sheet, we have more than 70 million in cash. I have

another 510 in Bitcoin which is valued at approximately 4647 million. So about

117$120 million in pair cash and liquid assets and zero debt. Yeah. So I think that was also very strategic because early on a lot of people asked us to take on debt. We we always said no to it

and so makes us in a very fin good financially health. Yeah. I think if you

financially health. Yeah. I think if you look at our loss on a quarterly basis in Q1 of this year uh you know we lost like 6.5 million. Q2 we lost 4.3 Q3 we lost

6.5 million. Q2 we lost 4.3 Q3 we lost 2.1 so we're cutting 2 million on a quarterly basis and then so all these metrics are are very very positive uh from a financial health perspective

let's turn to IM8 prinetics now flagship consumer brand which recently marked just its first year in business as you mentioned it looks like it's already been quite a ride um you previously said in the first

month alone IMA pulled in $600,000 in revenue which later jumped to 6 million in monthly revenue now the says it's on track to do 60 million this year. Do you

always know that it was going to be this big or has it surpassed even your wildest dreams and expectations?

Well, we weren't in a good position middle of 2023 because you know again COVID died. Um our existing business

COVID died. Um our existing business wasn't scaling as fast as I like. Yeah.

Because I think we were doing a lot of clinical and genomic tests and then with that it takes a lot of regulatory aspects and very long cycles, right? So

we wanted to create a new business unit and we're at that time we're thinking okay what do we do right and then so I was thinking okay um we had the last 10 years as a science-driven organization

it's like is there must be something that we can do in the consumer space and coincidentally I also had uh again this is also by by chance you know I was

having dinner with my very good friend uh Michelle Laminer he's the uh you know founder and executive chairman of Tata Asia And then we're having dinner one night and he was saying to me, hey, you know

what? U he was going to meet with David

what? U he was going to meet with David Beckham um over dinner in London two weeks time. So he asked me to join. He

weeks time. So he asked me to join. He

asked me, hey, do you want to come have dinner with David Beckham? I'm like, you know, why not, right? Casual.

That's just casual. Let's let's let's have a meeting, right? You know, in the back of my mind, I was like, hey, this could be a great opportunity, you know, to have him join as, you know, potential doing something together, right? And so,

you know, I met with David. We got along really great with him and his team. And

then we're like thinking, you know, what if we take a very science-based approach into the consumer supplements world, right? And he was also sharing how he

right? And he was also sharing how he was having a lot of difficulty consuming supplements on a daily basis because he would he doesn't he didn't

like taking, you know, 12, 13, 14 pills, him and Victoria uh together, right? And

then there must have been a a better way to do this. And we're like, hey, I do believe there is a better way to do this is that a basically we can create a supplement and that can replace a lot of

these supplements in a easy to consume drink. Right? So that's how we came up

drink. Right? So that's how we came up with IM8. Uh I think after a good three

with IM8. Uh I think after a good three to four months then we confirmed to work together and him coming on board as a co-founder of IM8. So it really was an

idea hatched between the two of you.

Correct. There was no product before.

There was no name. So everything just started from that one conversation. Um

and of course you know going back to your question is that you know of course we had projections uh for the business but we projected in the first year that we're going to have

approximately 30 million in fullyear revenue and now you know we'll easily cross 60 million in fullyear revenue.

And like you mentioned earlier, you know, last December when we launched, you know, we had, yeah, 600,000 in monthly revenue. Last month, we hit 10

monthly revenue. Last month, we hit 10 million in monthly revenue, right? So,

uh, it's actually the fastest ever brand in the supplements industry to hit a 100 million annual recurring revenue in less than 11 months. Typically, it'll take

you to take new uh any new brand to do it in three years, but we did it in under one year.

And to what do you attribute that success? because it sounds like even by

success? because it sounds like even by your own estimates, you know, you were really pleasantly surprised.

Yes, of course. So, I think, you know, when we created the brand IMATE and we sought out to create literally the best product on the market coupled with full

transparency um on you the ingredients, the dosages.

we saw there was a gap because again I think we we made a few boat bets right uh in creating the product the formulation and even you again at the

time you know all the rage was actually green powders right there's athletic one AG1 heel etc but so it was been the most easy for us to create just another

greens powder but we wanted to be a bit more bold so we came up with IM8 still the name means I am the eight means longevity if you flip it around And coincidentally due to ingredients it was

red, right? And then so we created uh

red, right? And then so we created uh this new reds powder and our USP was 16 supplements in one drink. And on day one

we also recruited the best scientists and doctors and professors around the world right because I think a lot of times when you look at some you don't actually know who's creating that supplement. So for example we got Dr.

supplement. So for example we got Dr. Don Musalem from Mayo Clinic. We got

James Green the former chief scientist of NASA. We got Dr. David Katz from

of NASA. We got Dr. David Katz from Yale. So these are normally individuals

Yale. So these are normally individuals that don't work with supplement brands just because there's a lot of bad eggs in the industry.

But for day one, for example, we did clinical trials, right? Uh that

show the efficacy of the product.

Uh we got NSF certification for sport, right? Which means that if you're a

right? Which means that if you're a professional athlete, you'll know it's free from 280 band substances, tested for heavy metals. Every single

ingredient dosage is third party tested to ensure that if it says it has 100 milligrams on the label is exactly 100 milligrams in the bottle. Yeah. Or in

the product, right? So, we did all those things from day one.

It's so critical, I think, and something that is actually really overlooked in this space. You know, as someone who

this space. You know, as someone who moved to America recently, I've been really flabbergasted to see how much of this stuff is still unregulated. So I

think it's very refreshing to see that you guys even openly share you know third party testing for instance. Um but

just to the question earlier I guess you know were there any specific growth drivers just for anyone out there listening to this and that is obviously hoping to replicate some form of this success. They don't always have you know

success. They don't always have you know like people like David Beckham behind them certainly but how is there anything that you would advise? I think for any industry the first thing you have to understand is okay how do you create

trust and credibility right and then so that's key right because it's like it doesn't matter how great your product is you have to be able to con basically uh convey trust and credibility and then so

for us again having David was a significant everyone will pay attention because of David Beckham of course I realize not everyone's going to get a David Beckham so you have to be able to in a way still be able to convey that

sense of trust and credibility and then I think for us also we didn't take any shortcuts right with the product because even from a formulation perspective we could have easily went to a manufacturer

they have so many formulations and say for us you know we knew we needed a custom formulation created by our scientific team uh so you had to have a good product backed by science uh you

know we also had a great brand you know I made you know the branding everything was spoton you know the shape the color uh the box everything all the little det details and even if you look at our

website, every module was specifically created, you know, with customer experience in mind right?

Um, so also from day one, we ship to 31 countries. We have all this

countries. We have all this transparency. I think key thing is

transparency. I think key thing is transparency on the website. We even

show uh who manufactures our product which is quite unheard of too. Yeah.

Right. On the on the website because anyone can just go to our manufacturer and say they we show it transparently on their website. Right. So I think again

their website. Right. So I think again going back to trust, credibility, transparency, and these are things that consumers are seeking out nowadays.

Trust is key.

Um, and what has it been like working with Beckham as a partner? Because

obviously there's a lot of skepticism at times about whether a celebrity just throws their name on something. Um, has

he been quite hands-on to work with? How

has it been?

So I think the key thing again to work with celebrity again there's been I think more failures than success cases.

Yeah. Because a lot of times celebrities just put their name onto something which they don't believe in or it's not authentic right but nowadays I think consumers so smart to understand what's actually real what's not real um

especially again because these celebrities are out and about et is it's is such an amazing because he's such an authentic co-founder you know he uses the product daily Victoria uses the

product daily his his trainers use the products daily his family and then you know he's sharing with his friends and family so that becomes a authentic connection that resonates with the community, right? So, uh you of course

community, right? So, uh you of course his team is highly involved. We've

talked to his team on a weekly basis. Um

so they're not just you putting uh uh yeah the name to the you just the name, right? So I think it's been quite

right? So I think it's been quite amazing. They're been very uh detailed

amazing. They're been very uh detailed in terms of a brand partnerships. Um the

brand you know David you testes out all the new formulations before it goes live. Um and also uh the taste of the

live. Um and also uh the taste of the product. Yeah. He also wants to make

product. Yeah. He also wants to make sure it doesn't only function but people enjoy it as well.

Another celebrity you recently brought on is the world's number one female tennis player, Arena Sabalanka. How was

that partnership born? I hear there's a great story of you guys meeting in David's Box. Again, very casual.

David's Box. Again, very casual.

Correct. Right. So, I think um you know that was also I think at least in the last 12 months another you major critical piece uh to being able to establish trust and credibility. Right.

Because I think um how that relationship came about is um in early this year I think it was about you know January or February you know Jason Stacy Arena's performance coach started taking it for

about three to four weeks and then he felt you know great about taking it energy levels recovery etc. And then he suggested to Arena um to try it out, right? And then she

started taking it it in I think for about three months time and then coincidentally uh you David invited me to enter Miami box and we I had to uh yeah I was there

and then next to me was Arena Sabalanka right and then so she was just next to me I was talking to her and then she was like oh you know what do you do and she's oh you know she was very humble right she's play a little bit tennis

right on the court she's so such a fierce person but outside of court she's just such so amazing as as human beings.

She makes a lot of jokes, very easy to be around with. Um, and then afterwards and after that, her team reached out to me and said, you know, Arena's been on the product. She loves the product. Um,

the product. She loves the product. Um,

and you know, can we partner together?

And then, so I think that was also a a really great or organic and authentic partnership. Yeah.

partnership. Yeah.

Um, that we cemented in June.

Yeah, it's pretty remarkable how naturally these things seem to come about for you. You know, I'm just so curious because for someone out there listening, right, you just seem like you're kind of known obviously, I think,

in Hong Kong circles especially as like a mover and shaker. You know, you partnered with all these celebrities.

Um, from the outside, one might wonder, how are you even meeting these folks and getting them excited to begin with? Um, did you ever kind of hesitate when it came to making

the ask or I guess with the uh arena it sounds like that was them approaching you but you know did you always expect to be operating this kind of orbit because not every founder would necessarily be as bold as to say hey

David you want to come on board and be a co-founder right yeah if you never ask you will always get no right but at the same time you have to and again these people they're they're meeting with you have business

people all the time they're meeting they're connect with all the smartest people in the world. So I think you have to create value for what you're offering, right? And you have to be very

offering, right? And you have to be very specific in terms of what you're building out. So I think in throughout

building out. So I think in throughout the whole process whenever, you know, David asked me a question or Arena asked me a question, I always had an answer and not just an answer, I had a a good

answer that could let them know, you know, we know exactly what we're doing and how we're going to go about it. And

I always try to, you know, provide to all partners. Again, I'm not trying to

all partners. Again, I'm not trying to think from a company perspective. I'm

always trying to how can I or the company create value for you. All right.

Um and then even for David, I knew I told him, hey, you know, I know David, you for example, you know, if you did this, it's going to be a huge reputational risk on you if something

were to go wrong, right? Because no

one's going to care about Danny, right?

That the reality. Yes. It's like a I take that with a significant sense of responsibility that I will know that we won't put a product onto the market unless it was the best in the market.

Right.

I I respect and trust so much that people trust me on this and I always try to deliver overd deliver on that value.

It's fascinating especially because I'm sure David gets a lot of offers, you know, to to to be part of stuff like this and you know, the fact that he said yes, I think is really a testament to the approach that you guys have taken.

I want to turn back to Prenetics for a moment because earlier this year you guys also came out with a huge announcement in June. You made headlines for announcing the company was pivoting to a Bitcoin treasury strategy.

For people who may not follow this closely, what does this actually mean?

So what this actually means is that you know we have our operating business of you know let now let's say you know IMA is the main driver of our operating business that we're going to be focusing

on and given that we have excess cash uh on top of what we need operationally we're putting our excess cash into bitcoin right and then so for example

you know previous to this um we are putting a lot of our cash just in JP Morgan is like getting 3.5 whatever percentage interest rates. Yeah. Um and

that's, you know, in some cases, yeah, inflation could be even greater than that, right? So, instead of putting it

that, right? So, instead of putting it in all of our uh our excess cash and fixed deposits, we've chosen to put in excess cash into Bitcoin. Uh we made a

$20 million initial purchase in June and after that, we've been buying one Bitcoin on a daily basis. And I think that that shows you, hey, we're not basically speculative, but we're

long-term on the asset because it's a great fit hedge against inflation. If

you look at it from a, you know, three, five, 10 year horizon, that's the horizon of time that we have, right? Um,

so that's what we've been able to do.

And now, as of today, I think we have about 510 uh, Bitcoin on the balance sheet.

And just so folks understand, the plan is to also to use these assets to fund your expansion continuously, right? like

what does that actually look like?

Because I understand one of the board members you brought on, uh, Andy Chung, the former COO of a top crypto exchange, has said that it's not just about passive Bitcoin storage. It's not just a buy and hold tactic. There's a lot of different things that you guys are

considering when it comes to these assets.

Yeah, because I think there's a lot of opportunity to even create yield um, you know, from the Bitcoin that we purchase, right? Uh, on top of just, you know,

right? Uh, on top of just, you know, buying and holding, right? So yeah, it it just creates more flexibility and options for us um as we continue to grow the business.

Is it a mix of like buying and selling Bitcoin as its value grows just for anyone who might be wondering exactly how this works or is it using Bitcoin as collateral or how does that work?

So right now we've only bought and hold.

Yeah. But we are looking to explore creating yield on our Bitcoin for example you buying cover call options etc. Right. Uh so we haven't done that

etc. Right. Uh so we haven't done that yet. Yeah. But it could we're exploring

yet. Yeah. But it could we're exploring opportunities to create yield on top of the Bitcoin.

Watch this space.

Yeah.

To many people, health and crypto may seem like completely different worlds.

What made you want to kind of marry the two? And what was the reaction both

two? And what was the reaction both internally and externally when you first shared this decision? Were people kind of like, wait, what?

I I see health and wealth being very connected. Yeah. Because basically if

connected. Yeah. Because basically if you don't have if you have wealth and you don't have health is also Yeah.

doesn't really mean that much, right?

Yeah. that again. So I think the ideal situations for anyone is that you have both health and wealth. So I think this is the most ideal situation. Um so of course when we first announced it back

in June, you there was a lot of you know question marks in terms of again why we were doing this. Yeah. But as long as they understood this a bit more is that hey we're not like in the markets trading every day. All right. Because

that would be so timeconent. We're not

also speculating on Bitcoin, right?

because otherwise we wouldn't be doing the you know one BDC dollar cost averaging strategy right u so but once they understood it better and they knew hey you know what we didn't raise any

debt to acquire the bitcoin right and we still have again you know 70 million of cash needed to grow the IMA business further then this just gives us a opportunity to be more flexible in the

future and have a appreciating asset you've said before the future of health is longevity and the future of wealth is bitcoin Can you kind of unpack that like how did you come to this realization?

Yeah, longevity and and is such a big topic, right? I mean, I think typically,

topic, right? I mean, I think typically, you know, people are talking about this when you're getting like 50 and above, right? But now people in their 20s are

right? But now people in their 20s are talking about health and longevity, right? It's not just about living older.

right? It's not just about living older.

It's about having a really good quality of life even when you're getting to the 60s, 70s, and 80s, right? So but now there's so much new science uh that can

actually have that potential that everyone can live much healthier even though you get older right or even like slowing down the aging process correct so I think all these things are possible

um you know especially in the last I would say the last 24 36 months right were you already a holder of Bitcoin personally and you just realized like this is really where I think the future

is going when it comes to financing no I I mean to be honest um I wasn't um until early this year. Um again, just in the reality was I have a few good

friends that have been this space for the last 10 years. I just never looked into it again. But when I finally looked into it and researched it and understood, you know, the limited supply

and understood basically a lot of these other you assets gold and silver are appreciating at a very fast rate then, you know, Bitcoin and Dary should also appreciate uh at a similar rate as well.

just given the limited supply factor of it, right? So, I feel like, you know, if

it, right? So, I feel like, you know, if you want to protect your wealth, yeah, that, you know, Bitcoin is a great uh storage of that.

Love it or hate it, it's a bold bet either way. And one that I think speaks

either way. And one that I think speaks to the kind of leader you are. I'd be

remiss if I didn't note that obviously Bitcoin has swung in value quite a bit from above 110K down to 85K just in recent months. You've already alluded to

recent months. You've already alluded to the fact that this happens. M

um I guess what do you make of that and what's your response to critics who say this is too risky?

Yeah. So I think volatility will always be there, right? I think yeah that's that's that's a no-brainer, right?

Because and we knew that going into it, right? Uh because but at the same time

right? Uh because but at the same time wise we always I always believe that hey if we don't it's a bigger risk if we don't do anything right. Um yeah but again and this is why we've also did not

do any other coins or any of the altcoins or ETH or Salana but we chose Bitcoin because I believe that's the long the best storage of of wealth piece

right um in terms of critics of course there has been some right uh but the reality is hey I think right now no one can be critical of it because no one can see the future

right even for myself I'm I'm a believer in the long-term future of this we're talking about again three five 10 years out. I don't think there's anyone that

out. I don't think there's anyone that can say, you know, in three, five years out, you know, Bitcoin is going to be 50,000, 150, 500,000, right? Who's to

say, right? So, I think we'll let the future decide on that. Uh we'll let the market decide on that, right? I think

the key thing for us for people to realize, hey, hey, you know, IM8 has a potential be one of to be one of the world's biggest supplement brands in the

world in the next three to five years. I

think people should focus on that more and then Bitcoin is just kind of like the bonus on the top.

You've said that you're inspired by the success of companies like Micro Strategy which has long been a pioneer in this space. Do you think this kind of

space. Do you think this kind of strategy could become the norm?

I actually do believe it could become the norm. um because I think you know

the norm. um because I think you know all companies are you looking at innovation especially companies that have a growing business um as long as you have additional cash right so

certainly for companies that doesn't have operating business I would find it very difficult for them to you know put yeah excess cash to bitcoin because they where where's the operating business

coming from right so I think for companies that have a operating business and you can generate that cash flow then I think it's a good opportunity last question on this topic is his goal

here to ultimately become one of the largest corporate holders of Bitcoin globally. Um I I think for us less so

globally. Um I I think for us less so about that right but I think it's just to have yeah part of our assets into Bitcoin um as a hedge against inflation

right but ultimately I think the key thing for us is hey how do we build IM8 as the main focus now to be one of the world's biggest uh healthcare subomic brands let's talk about roadmap what does the

next chapter of growth look like for both prenetics and IMA um so I think you know publicly for Prenetics wise right I think uh I've already publicly mentioned this after our Q3 earnings results is that hey

we're looking to devest um our non-core assets um you know which include Europa Circle DNA and incite because uh I think for us yeah I want to make sure that our

my my focus and management focus is all in on IMA because again we went from zero to 100 million AR in less than 11

months and V already projected next year fular revenue we're projecting to8 80 to 200 million in revenue. Uh and which means that we'll have a ARR of about

$300 million in the second year. If I

just look at that, it's like wow all these other business units. Yeah, it's a it's it could be a distraction, right? So that's why we are in the

right? So that's why we are in the process of devesting uh these other non-core assets um and just focusing on IM8.

And with IM8, is there a certain, you know, kind of next lever that you're hoping to pull there? Because I imagine you have grand plans for the next year.

anything else any other sectors you're looking to yeah so I think for IM8 wise again um you know we're we're right now 100% direct to consumer and it will predominantly stay significant majority

direct to consumer but we're just seeing so much growth around the world right like for example in the US it only makes up 40% of our business Canada's number two UK is number three Australia's

number four Singapore's number five you Hong Kong's number seven yeah so it's truly a global business and but we've just scratched the surface Because if you think about it, you know, the global

supplemental market is a $700 billion market opportunity, right? So, while

we've have had a great head start, there's just so much more opportunity for us. And then so in 26, you know,

for us. And then so in 26, you know, we'll be Yeah. launching a few new products. Yeah. And but we're not going

products. Yeah. And but we're not going to be those uh someone that has like 15 20 skills, right? Um you know, we're also going to be signing up a few new Yeah. A big athlete ambassadors.

Yeah. A big athlete ambassadors.

Anything you can tease?

Um I think it'll be interesting. So you

know I was just in yeah F1 Abu Dhabi just a few days ago. So I think F1 is a natural evolution um yeah for performance and then the great thing about the athletes is that they have so

much choice when it comes to you know supplements right and so it's a great testament again going back to trust and credibility of a brand and they care what they put in their bodies. It's really interesting what you

bodies. It's really interesting what you just said, by the way, about your plans to dedicate your focus to IMA because I was going to ask originally with so many irons in the fire, how do you split your

time and attention? It sounds like that's your answer, right? You're

realizing like this is where I'm going to go all in for now.

Correct.

And as you look back on your life and career, you know, what would you go back and tell your younger self, that kid who was selling baseball cards?

For everything that you have to work on, you really have to earn it. You can't

take anything for granted.

uh you have to put in the work, you have to put in the research. I think you have to be very strategic and again everything there's always a reason for everything and I think the key thing for

me and I always tell the team is that always control what you can um there's a lot that we can't control in business but there's also a lot that we can control and everything that we can

control we should do that at our best of abilities. M

abilities. M what is the endgame for you here if we were to sit back down let's say in 10 years where would you want prenetics or IMA to be since IMA has launched I there has been

so many people that have come to me and says hey you know you know you looking to sell IMA and etc etc why like yeah to fair yeah already in context of course right and I was like you know I have no

interest into selling IMA I don't need an exit I'm looking to build this for the long term wise because I see opportunity to create IMA you know, as

not just a supplement brand but as a lifestyle and community uh to provide value, you know, for our customers and creating a really positive community.

You know, for example, something that we just rolled out in the last two weeks. I

I believe, you know, again, no supplement brand has been able to do this is that we rolled out um for our quarterly subscribers a 90-day program

where you get access to our scientific advisory board and our performance board, right? So, for example, uh we're

board, right? So, for example, uh we're going to be offering live Q&A with Dr. Don. She's an integrative oncologist at

Don. She's an integrative oncologist at Mayo Clinic, which you know, she'll share you longevity tips and even for her own journey. She's a stage four cancer survivor, heart transplant

recipient, ran a full marathon one year after uh and she'll be sharing her tips and you also hear from Bobby Rich, which is yeah, David Beckham uh personal trainer. So imagine getting tips and for

trainer. So imagine getting tips and for him on how to train. So you're normal individual is not going to have this access, right? But we put together a

access, right? But we put together a really amazing group that are able to share and provide value to our customers. that interactive element

customers. that interactive element really coming into play here. That's

really fascinating. I think leveraging the access that you guys have already had and all the expertise that you've got on board. You've already had interest from other players and maybe scooping this up seeing the success you've had.

Yeah. So, I've had like so many emails or people reaching out to me and saying, you know what, hey, you know, are you interested to, you know, sell I man? So,

I I've actually taken zero calls um in that regards because again, I'm not interested in a quick exit here. uh

we're building this for the long term.

Um and this is you know very very very likely my last company. Uh yeah so I think yeah with that yeah I want to go all in on this and you know build this to a truly global brand.

Well you heard it here first. All right

this brings me to a segment we're calling what it takes where an audience member gets to ask for advice or hear more on what it takes to get where you are today. Just Kieran Garal, founder of

are today. Just Kieran Garal, founder of Yumama, a protein drink business based in Los Angeles, asks for an emerging CPG brand, one of the biggest early hurdles is finding the right manufacturer,

someone who can deliver on quality and is willing to take a chance on a young company.

When you were starting out, how did you identify a co-manufacturer that was the right fit for your needs? And how did you approach negotiatingQS and payment terms?

Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, finding a girlfriend, right? Yeah, you

have to just talk to as many people as you want. Yeah, I mean you have to talk

you want. Yeah, I mean you have to talk to as many uh manufacturers as possible, right? So I think when we, you know,

right? So I think when we, you know, finally selected our co-manufacturer, it was through a process at least I talked to at least 20 30 different manufacturers before settling in on our

current contract manufacturer understanding their current customer base and if they is someone that can scale with you as well, right? So I

think again the contra manager we selected I would say is is much more premium manufacturer because I think for us that was also important. It wasn't

about always finding the lowest cost, right? Because if you always look for

right? Because if you always look for lowest cost, there will always potentially be some shortcuts taken, right? So to be finding the one that

right? So to be finding the one that matches with your brand ethos, um, and someone that can actually grow with you, right? Because the last thing you want

right? Because the last thing you want is that if you select contra manufacturer and then six months in, you know, for some reason they're not accustomed to that growth for scale, they can't grow with you, then you'll be

Yeah. Even though you may be saving some

Yeah. Even though you may be saving some money here and there wise, right? it

will be much difficult to switch in that process.

So, take the long view as well, right?

Yes, Car.

Thank you, Danny. Now, we're going to do a quick rapidfire round. Don't overthink

it. Just say whatever comes to mind.

Ready? Remote, hybrid, or in office?

Um, hybrid.

What's one health trend you think is overhyped?

Uh, cold plunging.

What's one wellness ritual you never skip?

I am eight.

How do you mentally prepare before a big event?

I don't think too much about it. Yeah,

it'll get done.

Uh, what do you like to ask when hiring?

I have so many questions when as hiring, right? It's really understanding their

right? It's really understanding their motivations.

What's one piece of advice you come back to often?

Um, yeah, control the controllables.

No wonder you're so zen now.

Yeah. Thank you, Danny. Well said. I've

enjoyed our conversation.

Thank you very much, Michelle.

Thanks for joining us on Behind the Business. For more stories on business

Business. For more stories on business and leadership, follow our show on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you next week.