IM8 Founder: What It REALLY Takes to Build a $200M Supplement Brand

Okay guys, I have a crazy interview for you today. You've probably seen their

you today. You've probably seen their ads, IM8, they are absolutely everywhere. Danny Young, he's the

everywhere. Danny Young, he's the co-founder of IM8. He is going to detail everything that these guys are doing, spending 2 to3 million a month on ads,

how he scaled this business from zero to 9 figures in just over a year. One of

the fastest growing DTC brands online.

We go through landing pages, why they have 50 different landing pages, what their split testing process looks like, how they scale spend, how they lost 400

to 500K in 3 days. This interview is crazy. If you have a DTOC brand right

crazy. If you have a DTOC brand right now, you are spending money on paid ads.

You need to watch this.

Hear the stories, learn the proven methods, and accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship.

Welcome to the founder podcast with Nathan Chan.

Danny Young from selling baseball cards at age 12 to scaling you by I buy to nearly a million a month in revenue in

just six months before Groupon acquired it in 2010.

What do you believe about business that most founders get wrong? Um I wouldn't say most founders get wrong. Yeah. I

believe you know there's always multiple ways to you know create value and create a company. I just been one you that's

a company. I just been one you that's been always obsessed with product and understanding is this something that really can solve a problem. Right? So a

lot of times people are unrealistic with their idea about the product but number one always starts with a product and if you have an amazing product then there's a lot that you can build upon with it

right. But yeah, sometimes people they

right. But yeah, sometimes people they just think a shady product will work if you put great marketing to it, right? I

think firstly you have to have a great product. Yeah, a great product is like

product. Yeah, a great product is like baseline, right? You can't even play

baseline, right? You can't even play without a great product. So I think for any founder, you just have to ensure what your product is and what's the USP

over an existing market leading pro and be realistic with yourself and realistic with your friends and peers and your employees. then that's the recipe for success as the initial baseline.

Now you've scaled multiple companies.

Your current focus is IMA. We're going

to delve deep into that. But before we do, and that's a 9 figure business.

You've grown it to 9 figures in like under like just over a year, which is crazy in of itself. Um, you know, from from, you know, zero to close to $10

million a month. Like crazy crazy crazy numbers. So um want to talk about

numbers. So um want to talk about prenetics. So prenetics uh during co you

prenetics. So prenetics uh during co you had launched 40,000 PCR tests daily. You

you were selling 40,000 PCR tests daily generating over 800 million in revenue across three years. Though those are crazy times. I mean to be honest with

crazy times. I mean to be honest with you thinking back those three years probably the toughest time of my entrepreneurial career uh because it was literally 247 operations right because

when you're dealing with COVID testing I mean you have to get the results very very fast out to individuals you know because you especially in Hong Kong we needed to get results you know within a

24-hour period of time right sometimes even 12 to 24 hours right so we had a team of literally like 2,000 plus people on the logistics, operations, supply

chain, uh 247 operations for nearly three years. Uh you know, like I

three years. Uh you know, like I mentioned at the height, we're doing 40,000 PCR tests on a single day, right?

Uh total wise, we did 28 million tests across a three-year period of time from 2020 to 2022. And it was just insane like literally insane period of time

where you the origin of that was you know April I remember April 2020 uh we met with the government in Hong Kong they're like hey we was like do you

guys need any help they're like we don't need any help we can do it ourselves and then we're like oh that's fine and then I just saw there was some opportunity in the public sector because it was very

difficult to get a COVID test and when we started doing and we did it in 3 weeks time. Uh we got a co at a at home

weeks time. Uh we got a co at a at home COVID test that you send to someone's home, you send it back to our lab and you get results in 24 hours. We did that

in three weeks. So our capacity earlier on was 100 to 200 a day and we sold out every single day, right? So the volumes continue and we're just we're just trying to do something to help the

community. Um and then that was April,

community. Um and then that was April, right? And then when COVID got much

right? And then when COVID got much worse in July, then the government came back and called us. They were like, "Hey, then when you know the situations gotten much worse, uh, you know, can you

help us with mass PCR testing?" And

they're like, "Okay." I was like, "What do you want us to do?" Right? They're

like, "We need to test 300,000 restaurant workers across 16,000 restaurants." And I'm like, "Um, and how

restaurants." And I'm like, "Um, and how what what's the time frame you need to that's to be done?" They're like, "We needed to do be be done in four weeks."

And then again, there's very very different going from 200 tests a day to thousands a day. Uh, you know what? I

said, "Yes, let's do it." And we were able to complete 300,000 tests. And this

was door-to-door testing, right? We went

literally, myself included, you know, for the first weekend, literally walked to restaurants, passing out, you know, PCR, saliva kits, collecting it, bring

back to the lab, you know, working 18, 20 hours a day, right? So, it was insane. But somehow, I don't know how we

insane. But somehow, I don't know how we did it, but we were able to, you know, do do that 300,000 tests in four weeks time.

Yeah. It's wild. Like, so there's a there's a a clear through line with your story and the businesses that you build and scale. So, I want to get to your

and scale. So, I want to get to your current project, but before I do, because I immate is massive. You see it everywhere now. You've got incredible

everywhere now. You've got incredible partners behind the brand. You

co-founded it with David Beckham. You've

got like so much going on and this brand is is scaling super fast. So, I want to talk about why did you decide to list

that business on the NASDAQ and then bet the company's entire future on launching a consumer supplement brand which is IMA? Like what what what happened there,

IMA? Like what what what happened there, man?

Yeah. So, you know, strategically when we're going through COVID, right, and again the business was, you know, very very I would say decent size, right?

were doing upwards of 200 million annual revenues and but of course we always knew COVID would end someday right we didn't know exactly when this is like

2021 right uh and we're doing massive testing so during the height of this testing we was like hey you know what this is a good opportunity for us to

list on the NASDAQ yeah so we then got you know UBS city leaders or bankers they thought it was also a great opportunity so we listed on the NAS in 2022 too because we felt that was a good

opportunity to enable us to you know survive or thrive postco we didn't know when that was and then so that's why we we listed the company in 2022 and when we listed there was still covid right

and then so we had a billion plus valuation when we listed um you know but of course you know postcoid yeah everything came crashing down you know so of course you know as with any

entrepreneur or startup wise it's not all like you know rocket ship growth right so we went from billion valuation within 18 months I think our low point

valuation we hit like 40 million right so you can see how fast right we were able to grow but you know at the same

time how fast that downturn is also right so we yeah at 40 million things look very very bleak what was it like with investors man like

and shareholders it's it's tough man I mean honestly you know some some investors And again, I I take a big sense of responsibility and

pride. Um because, you know, to be fair,

pride. Um because, you know, to be fair, all of my a lot of my best friends or friends, yeah, that I've known for five, 10, 15 years, they all invested in

Prrenetics even preo, during the IPO. And then so that gives another sense of like lit literally you talk to anyone that knows me and my because I I always have like this

intertwined with you know personal and and workwise right so they all invested in myself and love it they just invested in me rather than whatever the company was doing right so I had a sense of responsibility

um and but of course you know postco you how do you replace 40,000 tests on a daily basis you can't right and so our revenue dropped off the cliff uh and we knew we needed to do something very

dramatic u and coincidentally we're thinking about getting into the supplement space the consumer space you know just given that was also my background at groupon right but with

genetics the last 11 years I was like hey we taken a very clinical and scientific basis from diagnostic DNA testing even PCR testing right so I was

thinking how do we merge science with consumer and then so this is where we led to thinking about the consumer supplement space. And coincidentally, I

supplement space. And coincidentally, I had a good friend in Hong Kong, Michelle Laminire. Uh he knows David very well.

Laminire. Uh he knows David very well.

And me and Michelle was at dinner and he was like, "Hey, I want to see David in the next few weeks in London." Yeah. And

he's like, "You do you want to join?"

I'm like, he was like, "Are you sure?"

And I'm like, and he's like, "Yeah, just come along." Okay. I was like, "Fine,

come along." Okay. I was like, "Fine, let's let's do it." And then I, you know, went over to London to meet with David and, you know, that's that's how we got started.

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Crazy. So, what's it like building a company with someone as famous as David Beckham? Because you as well you didn't

Beckham? Because you as well you didn't do what a lot of brands do where you do paid endorsements like you you you are strategically bringing on well-known

thought leaders and well-known celebrities or influencers and you're making them equity partners which is which is really interesting but yeah talk me through that because yeah you you've co-founded the business with

David Beckham. Yeah. So I think um you

David Beckham. Yeah. So I think um you know you know from that first conversation with David right so it was never about commercial terms it was always about a what was the impact and

what was the problem that we wanted to solve right going back to the product side right so we knew you know when we did our research and etc wise you know there's a big gap in terms of

supplements there's a lot of mistrust in the industry right so we started with the product and again when we spoke with David I told David and then you his own frustrations in the supplement

categories that he felt it was also very overwhelming right and that's for David I imagine he has the best doctors nutritionalist team around him and he

even for him it felt overwhelming and he was also struggling to maintain his daily intake of supplements because he's kind of you know especially showing me his his stack is like you know dozen or

so you know different types of supplements right and when he's traveling Dan is also very difficult to maintain that because you have to pack it all. A lot of times you forget it's

it all. A lot of times you forget it's just not an easy thing to do um for the majority of people, right? And it was like, hey, you know, when we started talking, it's like, yeah, there must be a better way to do this. How can we

create something where we have a all-in-one solution in a powder format where you can carry it with you anywhere easily sharable, easy to travel with and

key thing is has to be scientifically backed because that was the key thing David said you know if he has to put his name on something number one it has to be the best in the market because it

will get number heavily scrutinized right and you know that's what we did we said hey you know let's do it but at the same time we also brought along the best scientific advisory board you know that

was available to us right which the likes of you know Dr. Don Musum from the Mayo Clinic you know professor Suzanne Decodola from Cedar Sinai you know Dr. James Green the former chief scientist

of NASA uh so all these individuals and it's also very rare that these guys came together to support one company but a supplements brand which was the first time they've ever done so.

Yeah. So, I want to talk about growth cuz it's insane. Uh, but before we do, how did you pull that off? Like what you said, like the amount of expertise, the

amount of ambassadorship that you have behind this brand is very impressive. It

builds instant trust, credibility.

It's a it's I think it's a very key ingredient. Obviously, besides having a

ingredient. Obviously, besides having a great product, but from a marketing perspective, very very strong. So talk

to me how did you pull that off and how did you know it was the right move thinking about the industry as a whole right again you know there's a lot of

mistrust in the supplement category even when I talked to people in the industry when I was thinking about this is like everyone told me hey Danny don't get into the supplement industry it's extremely competitive extremely

cutthroat there's a lot of bad apples here but when I hear that I actually sense an opportunity right so okay if that's the case hey there means there's

a big big opportunity if we can create a scienceback credible product right and again I'm not a scientist but you know the last 10 years I think with

prrenetics it also enabled me to understand how scientists think what their uh you know motivations are you know what their pet peeves are uh what

they actually want to achieve right so I think that 10 last 10 years of being in a very clinical setting really also allows me to reach out to individually to these scientists, right? Because I

wanted to have a very broad scientific advisory board with broad experiences, you know, so everyone can weigh in on their own expertise rather than like, hey, someone that knows it all, right?

And I just, you know, found them one by one via LinkedIn, internet, and just kind of, you know, co- call them or send them a message on LinkedIn and said, "Hey, who I am, what I have done." And

again to be fair, I think my background, you know, with Groupon as well as the last 10 years PRX that of course it signals credibility as well. It's not

like this, you know, random guy that's just, yeah, out of the blue, right? So I

think that has something to do with it, but yeah, at the end of the day, you just have to find these individuals and, you know, everyone's willing to hear you out as long as you, you know, providing them with value, right? So that's what

one thing I always try to do regardless of if it's you know David the scientific team you know all these other ambassadors number one even if we don't work together I'm always trying to

provide value to the other side right and so in in whatever I can do like making introductions providing some value on whatever I'm doing any of the AI stuff that we're doing just always

trying to provide value and be able to proide value I think ultimately it becomes much greater than just a pure transaction professional um yeah thing.

And all of these ambassadors and experts, all of these people, they're equity partners right?

Yes. They all have, you know, equity and you did that strategically.

Yeah. I I always felt the ambiguously if we do well, you know, everyone should do well. And I think that was also very

well. And I think that was also very important because again, a lot of these transactions are just too transactional.

And then yeah if they believe in it and again give me example even David right yeah I'm sure you imagine the last yeah 10 20 30 years so many big brands

companies etc they're like Dave we want to give you equity but of course just because you want to give them equity he's not going to take it right because you when he takes equity that means he has to really believe in it he can take

many endorsement deals it it doesn't really you know it's not going to change too much right but when he takes equity that's a signal know that he's invested into the brand. He believes in the

founder, he trusts the founder and he trustes the long-term direction of where the brand is going. Right? So, I think the equity piece was very important because we didn't just want to have

Yeah. Endorsements. Yeah. We wanted

Yeah. Endorsements. Yeah. We wanted

people that truly believed in the brand and you to be fair, that's for every single one of our ambassadors, they have equity. And this in a way is skin in the

equity. And this in a way is skin in the game.

Yeah. And what would you say to founders that want to hold on, want to protect?

Yeah.

What would you say?

It's like, what are you trying to protect, right? I mean, yeah, I always

protect, right? I mean, yeah, I always tell the like younger entrepreneurs, they're like, "Oh, you know what? I

don't want to give up, you know, 5%, 10%, etc." But then I always felt, you know, even from my own experience, I mean, this is like my fourth, fifth company. I'm very, I would say, very

company. I'm very, I would say, very flexible with equity. Yeah. because I

rather have you know 10% of a billion or 10 5% of five billion right rather than yeah 100% of 50 million yeah whatever that is right so I always tell founders

like hey if they can provide value that equity that you give it makes the pie so much bigger so I always believe you know if if if they're able to take it and

they want the equity then it actually ties in the incentives much stronger so I would be very flexible to to the young uh to the entrepreneurs listening about their equity.

Yeah, I I really appreciate your your experience there because I think for many founders, they want to protect equity and it's you know, whatever you're doing, man, the whole strategy is paying off. I want to unpack this cuz I

paying off. I want to unpack this cuz I could talk to you all day, right? So,

let's start with some straight facts.

You launched IM8. You generated $581,000 in its first month, and that was in that was in December of 2024. So half a

million a year a half a million a month business in month one. Then you scaled it to $10 million a month in one year.

So $10 million a month by December 2025 in one year. Like that is insane. So

talk us through what did you do for launch and how you like Yeah. And we'll

we'll delve into the numbers but like what was the key things that you did for launch to just go off the bat like that?

Yeah. So, um, we launched in December of 24. I mean, that was strictly online,

24. I mean, that was strictly online, right? So, that was just kind of testing

right? So, that was just kind of testing the market. Uh, you know, seeing it

the market. Uh, you know, seeing it works and again, yeah, we had, you know, 581,000. I think it was a decent launch.

581,000. I think it was a decent launch.

Yeah. And then in January, we actually had an official launch where we had a launch event um with David in New York.

He was on the Today Show. We had a, you know, press conference, you meet and greet and etc, etc., right? So I think ultimately that's the value of having such a famous you know co-founder right

because basically you know you're able to cut through a lot of noise uh you know for example I mean yeah what what's the value of having your product on the

today show right so many people watching right so just him on the today show I think that day we had like a thousand orders right and this was organic right and then so just by that and then

January wise I think we yeah went to like million plus in revenue you right.

So every single month we just continued to doubled I think other points in that journey in the first year I think you know in in June we signed up Arena

Saboinka and then so that also elevated a lot of credibility amongst the athlete sector right because here here's Arena world number one tennis player is like

oh wow you got David and now Arena right and she's the active right so you know everyone loves Arena and her story also resonated very Well, because Jason

Stacy, her performance coach, started using the product in January and we didn't even know. He was just like he was like, "Hey, you he they wanted a new

supplement gene. He saw us online. He

supplement gene. He saw us online. He

ordered it. He took it for a month. Then

he gave it to Arena. It's like Arena tried it for three months. And I'm sure you know at their levels. Yeah. He's

monitoring every single meal, every single day, diet, all the changes, how she's feeling. Um and she took it for

she's feeling. Um and she took it for three months and then she was like, "Hey, she's feeling great. Recovery was

significantly better uh energy levels and she didn't get sick." Yeah. And then

she then had uh her team reached out to me and you know we struck a partnership um and yeah that also created a lot of growth for us uh and a lot of

credibility right uh so like I think for the first six months those are like two key pieces and again just continue also you know doing lots of testing online

you because we're 100% DTC right um one other thing I will share that we did from day one we shipped to 31 countries

from day one and I think this was also a big part I would say my my experience at group on right it's like hey thinking very big and global from day one you

know like you say we went all in right I was like you know what if we're we I know we have a great product right I think the world deserves this product on a global basis so we didn't just say you

know what let's try US and then blah blah blah go to other markets right from day one we're in 31 countries so logistically it was yeah it was a nightmare to drill uh all these

different countries. Yeah. But we did

different countries. Yeah. But we did and I think ultimately you know US is our biggest market. Canada's I mean UK is now number two, Canada's number three, Australia's number four,

Singapore is number five, Hong Kong's number six and then Yeah. So yeah. So,

okay. I I love you say that because I see so many founders, they launch in just Australia or just America. And I

agree when I've built companies, I always go global from day one, too, because why why not use the power of the internet, you know? Like that's the leverage, man. Like that's the

leverage, man. Like that's the scalability, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Exactly. And if you have a one product that can go across across boundaries, right? And Yeah. And again,

boundaries, right? And Yeah. And again,

we're not like we weren't like localizing any of the ads specific for UK, Canada or or Hong Kong or anything like that, right? So I think this is also the value that we found and again

you know again we're so grateful to have you David agreed to be a co-founder but you know David is a true intern he's famous everywhere right so he's great so

that made this you know also very helpful from day one okay so now this is going to get a little technical but this is going to be fun because we talked about this offline

you know because you are a publicly listed company you have to put your numbers out there a lot of DTC see brands, a lot of companies at scale, they have to hide them or they don't have to, but they choose to hide them.

So, we can talk about some really cool and interesting things and understand how you're navigating the growth of this business at scale. So, the first question I want to ask you is you're

currently operating roughly at a 3:1 LTV to CAC ratio over a 24month period. So

your average order value right now is about $200 with acquisition costs around $220 to $230. So for founders that are

struggling with marketing costs, what's one simple way to know if your customer acquisition is actually working and how do you how have you engineered the economics here? Talk us through that and

economics here? Talk us through that and talk us through some of the challenges you've faced along the journey.

I mean to be fair to to put this simply, it's quite simple, right? If you think about it, right, I mean number one, you have to have you have to calculate your gross margins, right? So our gross margins are 60%. Right? And then so I

think if you look at also another key factor that we look at especially early on is say how fast you're recouping that customer acquisition cost. Now for us based upon gross margins wise is actually about four months period of

time, right? So that means when we're

time, right? So that means when we're spending $230, we're recouping that in a relatively short amount of time at four months. So that means that we can scale

months. So that means that we can scale very aggressively when we're operating at a three to four month payback period, right?

um you know for example him and hers I know their payback again public information their payback period is 12 months right so very very long right correct and then so if you're able to

operate at a at a three four month payback period then you can even kind of go aggressive and then also depends on the business model for us you know last

year I think early on yeah our our our average order value was was about $110 right CAC was about $130 but because we are a subscription business and 80% of

our business is subscription, we can afford to have a slight loss on that first order and then we'll make it up on you month two, month three, month four, right? And

then we'll get paid back there. But if

you're dependent on let's say your first first purchase has to be profitable, then you need a you know rorowes of at least two to threex for it to make sense, right? So for us it works because

sense, right? So for us it works because we are recurring business model. So I

think every uh business is different depending on your business model. Uh but

ultimately you just need to understand the unit economics really really well in every little detail. Right.

Yeah. I agree. This is fundamentally key. So um we recently launched a new

key. So um we recently launched a new community at founder called founder operators and we help DTOC brands scale with ads and we created this um customized software which we call the

founder OS. And once you plug in the

founder OS. And once you plug in the numbers, we can work all of these things out. Cuz believe it or not, a lot of

out. Cuz believe it or not, a lot of founders don't know these numbers as well as they should. And this is the key to unlocking scale. Cuz I'm sure if you

guys wanted to spend 30% less than what you're spending right now, you could be profitable on the first purchase, but you choose not to because with extreme scale, obviously there's diminishing

return. So you have to find a way to

return. So you have to find a way to make the scale work. Correct.

Correct. I mean to be fair, we can be profitable tomorrow if we wanted to, right? I just turned off my new customer

right? I just turned off my new customer acquisition engine because I have enough recurring subscriptions or customers today to be profitable tomorrow, right?

But then again, yeah, what fun would that be, right? If we stop scaling right now, right? So, we don't want we don't

now, right? So, we don't want we don't want to just farm our existing customer base, right? I believe we have an

base, right? I believe we have an opportunity to be one of the world's biggest supplement brands in next three to five years. Uh yeah, so I think right now we're still scaling on the growth

side of things. So, let's talk about the scaling. So, your marketing engine

scaling. So, your marketing engine currently runs about 2,200 plus meta ads that we can see right now.

Yeah. Public ads library. Yeah.

Yep. Yep. And you've got roughly 50 individual targeted landing pages, which is interesting in of itself. So,

what's the one mistake that you see founders make when it comes to running ads on Meta at the scale that you guys are running it at? like you must be spending at least a few hundred,000 a day right?

Uh yeah, total wise I mean right now we're spending like $150,000 to $200 in a day right now to on on meta and Google. All right. Um yeah to what I

Google. All right. Um yeah to what I mean I think the the diversity of our ads and the creative and the volume and the funnels actually allowed us to

unlock spend right because I mean give example like of course right now we're spending you know a decent amount but yeah I wanted to just because you want to spend 150

200,000 you can't unless you want to you can't if you want to have a decent rorowas all right you can but then If you don't have the uh the diversity of the volume of content, yeah, you're just

going to get like you hit with like really bad return ad spend, right? So,

uh yeah, from last year till now, again, we've been always constantly testing in terms of how do we unlock spend, right?

Because we know for example, this category by default is very very big, right? So, there should not be a

right? So, there should not be a limitation for us our spend as long as our creatives are good, right? So I

would say for the first part of 2026 that's one thing that we really focus on how do we get our creative volumes much higher and creative diversity which of

course med talks about a lot and it's actually I think yeah prior to I think late last year we had about 800 ads you know running at any given time now we

have you know 2,000 right so this has taken a lot of work I would say is also quite complicated process Right? Because

just volume enough doesn't work.

So talk me through that. Like why so many targeted landing pages and what are the common mistakes founders make? Like

even even for founders that are perhaps doing 30 to 50 to $100,000 a month watching this right now like what why so many?

Yeah. Yeah. Be care. Because basically

you have so many different personas, right? At the end of the day you have so

right? At the end of the day you have so many different personas. You know so right now let's say you know we'll have a landing page you know for arena. We'll

have a landing page for Ollie Bearman the F1 driver, right? We'll have a landing page, you know, I guess if you're taking GOP1, we'll have a landing page for recovery. We'll have a landing

page for energy fatigue. So, whatever

the product does, again, people want to see specifics and of their persona rather than just a generalized one for all landing page. Yeah, of course, we

still have our general page. If you go on our website and go to our PDB, that's a generalized, right? If you're clicking on an ad that shows Arena Sabalinka, you want to listen to her story, right? If

you're clicking on an ad that says Ali Bman, we go give you the story, the background about who he is, you know, why he's wanted to be a part of IM8. So

all of that journey and then that becomes a very authentic storytelling piece, right? It's all about

piece, right? It's all about storytelling, right? Because at the end

storytelling, right? Because at the end of the day, we don't want to just sell our product, we want to sell being a part of this community that we've been able to build. And when it comes to

angles and creative tests, what do you have a KPI just for people to get an understanding? How many angles or new

understanding? How many angles or new angles are you planning to launch per week with your scale?

Oh, yeah. I mean, we we'll launch, you know, at a minimum two to three uh new angles and we'll just continue test, right? Per week.

right? Per week.

Uh yeah, per week, right? But of course, now there's there's always a baseline of because we already have like a baseline of like a dozen or so different personas, right? So we just constant add

personas, right? So we just constant add to it, right? And there's certain ones that hey, we see, hey, there's all more opportunity to scale that. So we're

further optimizing things that work, right? So just because something is

right? So just because something is already working, we're always trying to fine-tune that further, right? And

there's always a, you know, again, I think we're always trying to do better than yesterday, right? It's like, hey, when we see success, oh, that's great.

How do we double down on that? Right?

And when it comes to you said when you started you know AOV wasn't as high as it is now. Is there anything that you can share with our community that you

know they have to be doing or tests that you've ran or anything that we when you're looking at other founders DTC businesses where it's a common mistake that they make? Anything you could share there?

Yeah. So I think um yeah last year our AOV was hovering around $110, right? And

again our our business is actually quite simple because we only have two SKs. So

we actually don't have that much opportunity to cross our upsell because you only have one other skill, right? Uh

yeah. So we waited about a year until we launched a 90-day subscription, right?

Because we couldn't have done that early on, right? Because we if let's say we

on, right? Because we if let's say we let's say we launch in December 24, if we had a three-month subscription, we had no social proof, right? So no one's

going to pay you Yeah. $235 for a three-month Yeah. subscription because

three-month Yeah. subscription because you have zero proof. Why would they do that? Right? So, when we launched the

that? Right? So, when we launched the 90-day subscription, um that was a big thing for us because, you know, now 35 to 40% of individuals

are choosing the 90-day subscription over the one month subscription. So,

that increased our average order value very significantly, right? So, from

about $110 to a little bit more than $200, right? So, I think constantly

$200, right? So, I think constantly trying different offers. Um and the great thing now with you know even the landing pages offers is that you know with AI all these things can be tested

so so fast. Uh yeah so I think you just constantly constantly testing.

How are you using AI to test these so fast?

Yeah I mean you think about all the landing pages right now you can build out landing pages in like 10 minutes.

Correct. Right. So I think we use a lot of manners. We use a lot of cloud code

of manners. We use a lot of cloud code uh you know to basically get out landing pages at scale and of course we have to fine-tune it QCA and check in etc wise

right but yeah landing pages now used to what take like it could easily take a week to make a good landing page right now literally a very good landing page

can probably be done in like two hours with back and forth finetuning etc. Yeah. Yeah. You're so spot on. So, like

Yeah. Yeah. You're so spot on. So, like

with this new community we've launched, we've obviously got our OS software, then we do the coaching, help you scale, and our lead lead guy that's uh heading up and helping us build the curriculum.

He's scaled spend to, you know, 100 $200,000 a day like you guys have. And

he's been saying to me, Nathan, like the next iteration for us, for our software is helping founders launch landing pages at scale, optimize them at scale. And

that's what we're looking at at building because it's it is the new way. And if

you're not doing this in 2026, running ads, you're just leaving so much money on the table, even just, you know, going to a PDP or going to your Some people still their their main collection page or their homepage, which is crazy,

right? Oh, exactly. And even even for

right? Oh, exactly. And even even for the same persona, you can test two different landing pages, right? Right.

Now, you just put in the meta just Yeah.

same ad and just go landing page A, landing page B, right? For this for different personas. So, you can do that

different personas. So, you can do that at scale, right? So, there's a lot of stuff that we do currently.

Yeah. Okay. And you've found that obviously the more angles increasing AOV working through the LTV to CAC ratio that that's how you've slowly scaled spend over time right you've just got

just got the unit economics just fine-tuned fine-tuned fine-tuned yes correct and of course I mean it's not you know there are periods of time when we're testing things out it's like you know which is yeah of course always

it's always been even though we're a public company right every time we spend money I always treat it like myself so sometimes you just have to go to yeah the the pain of it right sometimes you know you're you're spending to learn

right and then sometimes yeah there was period of time where I think was yeah February where you know there was a few days where you know we went testing we tested a lot of volume like high spend

yeah just to see what would happen with certain creatives and etc and it didn't work right and so those few days we're doing like you know 0.4

four 0.5 rorowas. Uh but if we make continue that spend at that level, then the the unit economics falls completely apart, right? So there will be periods

apart, right? So there will be periods of time where you just have to spend money to learn and then once you dissect that data, those insights are so

valuable to help you understand, okay, what went wrong and how do you fix it?

So it's a constant thing because again, everything's changing so fast. Yeah.

Yeah. 100%. Um,

sometimes you have to pay pay to play basically right?

Agree. Agree. It's Yeah, it's part of it. You It's part of the play when it

it. You It's part of the play when it comes to scaling with ads. So, um, okay.

So, let's talk about Bitcoin because literally uh you guys made headlines

because you invested a portion of a portion of your balance sheet um into Bitcoin

and you also um yeah like uh at the end of 2025 you announced a halt to new Bitcoin purchases to concentrate capital

entire highly on scaling IMA. So talk to me around that strategy and and why you you at first wanted to put Bitcoin on as part of your balance sheet as a diversification but then switched up.

Talk me through that.

Sure. So I think um again this is part of you know running a public company right so there's always like two I always have to manage you the IM8 side and then the public company side of

things right. So last June, yeah, again,

things right. So last June, yeah, again, you know, we we uh last June, we're thinking, you know, what do we do? You

know, our our trading volume was a bit lower. And I always think with any

lower. And I always think with any strategy that we do, okay, we want to see what's the upside and what's the downside, right? If there's significant

downside, right? If there's significant upside and very limited downside, that's where, hey, you know, there's always going to be a downside with every decision. And we felt at that time there

decision. And we felt at that time there was going to be significant upside versus very limited downside. And if we say we say you know let's buy let's start buying bitcoin we have extra cash

on the balance sheet is a great way to get people talking about it understanding it and you may maybe yeah they'll invest in the stock right u and which actually did generate lots of PR

our trading volumes I think went up like two to 3x after that and always said you know what if bit if at one point it doesn't work we'll just stop buying bitcoin right u and that's ultimately

what we did because the business grew grew so fast. So even in June until December, I think it doubled, right? We

were probably doing about 5 million a month in June and then by December we're doing 10 million a month and then you know of course then we had investors come to us and which even for myself I was like hey now why are you guys you

know wasting time with this Bitcoin stuff right let's yeah stop it focus on IM8 and ultimately that's what we did so in December 4th we said you know what

we're we're stopping buying any Bitcoin now and into the future just given the growth opportunity of IMA we'll just fully focus on had. But ultimately, I think it did do what it it intended to

do, which was get more volume and liquidity in and we got some amazing investors out of that.

Clever. Um, one thing you did which I think is interesting that I have to ask you about is you partnered with Super Power this month.

Yeah. A few days ago. Yeah. This is

March 2026 recording this. Um to offer IM8 subscribers $199 blood testing membership for just $49.

So I want to talk about the the strategy there. Why not build internally versus

there. Why not build internally versus partner and the thinking there obviously is it will help with retention and and what are you seeing thus far?

Yeah. No. Um great. Yeah. So I think you know the first question is like you know you can't build everything ourselves, right? So right. So I think they've

right? So right. So I think they've already you know square power max yeah you know they've already built a great platform in a very short amount of time and then so I want to focus our

attention to growing IM8 right so I think this is again not focusing on on it could be a distraction even building it so because we already on such a clear growth trajectory of IM8 doesn't make

any sense for us to build anything separate from that uh only what's adjacent sorry uh to IM8 right so that's why we partnered with super power and to be

fair it's like hey we feel that yeah a lot of people they take supplements and say how do you quantify yeah you know the results right of course a lot of people feel much better energy recovery

their gut and now it's an opportunity where people can yeah you take a superpower test they test at baseline and then they test again you know three to four months after they take IMA so

now they can see the data and the results of the impact you know the supplements is making right so I think it makes sense for us our customers get 75% off and you know for us for

superpower also makes sense because you know they're getting a customer that is very vested in their health and the thinking is

you will add perhaps more other partnerships to help your members as well in the future to help with churn um I think we're always looking to deliver value right you know so I think

ultimately it's a community that we're trying we're building here. So, anything

that creates value for the customer, we'll look to adding. Of course, we're not going to have like, you know, 10 20 different partners, right? These has to be very defined. And even give you an

example as part of our 90day subscription.

Customers get exclusive access to our team of scientific uh scientific advisors uh performs coaches. You know, for example,

coaches. You know, for example, individuals get access to, you know, Dr. Dam do a a zoom on a quarterly basis, you know, with a group, right? They'll

get access to Bobby Rich, David Beckham's trainer, right? So, they get these insights. Yeah. Free and they'll

these insights. Yeah. Free and they'll be able to, you know, literally ask them questions, you know, as part of the quarterly master classes. Yeah. So,

we're again trying to always deliver value.

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So, when it comes to IMA, you guys are projecting, you know, 180 to 200 million in revenue for 2026, which is just insane growth. Like one of the fastest

insane growth. Like one of the fastest growing DTC brands that we've seen online in the past few years. um you guys are are targeting an adjusted EBIDA

profitability by the fourth quarter of 2027. So like you said, you could be

2027. So like you said, you could be profitable tomorrow if you turned off ads. However,

ads. However, big TAM global scale.

How do founders balance growth versus making money?

No, I think um now great question, right? So I think at least for again

right? So I think at least for again just even though you think you see my career and background, right? has always

been growth and I think with growth yeah the profitability will come right but you have to get to a certain point and again we have a limited window of

opportunity I believe in the next you know few years to really grow fast and capture market share yeah and so this is where at least for us we're prioritizing the growth over profitability

uh and we also have a very strong balance sheet right because we also sold off a lot of our non-core assets in the past you 18 months that allowed us to

have this growth mindset. All right. So

every company needs to operate based upon you their cash position, right?

Yeah. So I think we've been in a fortunate position because now with the assets uh that we sold, we now have you know total liquidity of approximately

$160 million with zero debt. Right? So

this allows us to be in this growth mindset. But at the same time we also

mindset. But at the same time we also have to be mindful that hey we want to grow at a capital efficient way. So it's

not growing at all costs right. So for

example as mentioned in terms of even the roll as a where we cap it at you know 0.8x 8x right is that last year we

lost $18 million. This year even with 3x growth and hitting 180 to 200 million our loss will be in a similar range about like 15 to$20 million right so at

this level of growth I would say it's actually you know pretty good metrics and by tw by Q4 27 you know we expect to be fully profitable because at scale-wise then a lot of the costs that we incur are just going to be you

advertised out.

Yeah. So talk me through your decision making framework around how you make decisions scaling companies at this speed cuz there's a through line uh with the speed that you grow companies which

you grow companies. So can you give me an insight into how you make decisions because you will have to make them fast at this at this level of scale.

Yeah and again I think I've been fortunate you know because I have yeah started you know four or five companies from scratch. I've also been an investor

from scratch. I've also been an investor in you know many you know successful you know companies that want went on to be billion dollar companies. So that gives me a lot of knowledge and I would say

expertise in terms of again making decisions very very fast. uh and I would say I'm I'm a this is a very founderled organization right so I'm very

operational as well through the entire business so that also allows me to make fast decisions right um you know saying again in in each my uh past startups I

pretty much operated every single row right so I know quite a lot so that allows me to make fast decisions again like going back my framework for the decisions okay what's the upside here

and what's the downside, right? And if

there's significantly greater upside to that decision and very limited downside, then yeah, we go for it, right? But a

lot of times, you know, I may be founders, they they focus a lot of stuff on things that may not move the needle and then so I tend to focus a lot of my time on things that, you know, I

personally can create value um and that moves the needle.

It's so tough though because there's so many fires. What's your philosophy

many fires. What's your philosophy there? Yeah, there's a there's a lot of

there? Yeah, there's a there's a lot of fires all I'm sure in the DCC space, right? There's always something going

right? There's always something going on. Uh yeah, again, you know, we try to

on. Uh yeah, again, you know, we try to limit that as much as possible. Of

course. Yeah. And even with the, you know, the fires, you know, we have to Yeah. We have to react fast. And a lot

Yeah. We have to react fast. And a lot of key things I I always tell my team is that we always have to try to think one step ahead and be proactive, you know, rather than be reactive. And again, we

can't always be catching all the fires, but I think for the majority most part, we've been able to do so.

And what about your execution framework?

You guys are moving super fast. What uh

anything you can share from an operating rhythm, goal setting, KPIs, talk us through that.

It's definitely evolved, you know, over time, right? Because again, we are

time, right? Because again, we are moving very fast, right? Yeah. My

operational framework also again kind of making uh going back to the decision-m I'm always available, right? So I would say you know I'm definitely like in in

intertwined with the business. I'm like

247 available anyone can reach me I always say you know if I don't respond within 24 hours just ping me on WhatsApp whatever etc. Right? So I never want to be a blocker any of the decision making

uh or if I don't know the answer I'll make sure I find it from somewhere someone I know or someone that's very resourceful. Uh yeah so I think

resourceful. Uh yeah so I think operational framework and I I I talk to my team you know quite frequently I mean definitely on on a daily basis right so

just very involved with the team is I think you have to be at this level of growth you know because I think the challenge even with let's say you know

meta or or the decisions that we make around there the natural thing is a majority of people they can't make these decisions because this the amount of

money is so much right so only the founder level can really take chances on going this because at the end of the day it's my responsibility regardless of anyone else so you have to be highly

involved in the process especially when we're growing so fast to be fair it's like you know if you know if last year we did 60 million full year revenue on IMA if this year I said you know what

let's just do a hundred million I could like go to the beach every day and not do anything pretty much right seriously seriously yeah because we're already there. Think about it. Like last in

there. Think about it. Like last in December, we're already at 10 million monthly revenues. So, if I wanted to

monthly revenues. So, if I wanted to just hit 100 million or 120 million this year, I I literally wouldn't need to be doing much. We're very very limited. We

doing much. We're very very limited. We

could run it pretty much, right? But

because we are shooting for growth, you know, we are looking to unlock span.

We're looking to like, you know, bring new products to the market, right? So,

this is where then I still have to be very involved and I love it also, right?

So I I love growth. It's like you know it's you know some some people are chasing that right. So I chase the growth and you that's kind of like adrenaline for me and I want to create impact. I want to create impact for the

impact. I want to create impact for the customers. I get a lot of adrenaline

customers. I get a lot of adrenaline when I see you know customers you know talking to us uh feeling good about the product and how it's changed their life and of course even our ambassadors our

shareholders our investors. So it's it's you I'm loving the progress and loving what I'm doing. and you've held off entering China despite the opportunity.

How do you decide when not to expand and what to focus on and what to kind of an opportunity to pursue? Talk me through

that. Yeah. So I think um great question

that. Yeah. So I think um great question right? So I think I always look at okay

right? So I think I always look at okay if I'm if this year you know I'm growing to 180 $200 million right it's already a

quite big growth from last year right so again it's going back what's the upside what's the downside right maybe I enter now but I'm already growing so fast that I don't need to enter China right now

right so for example another thing we don't need to do we don't need to enter retail right um that over complicates the business and to be fair we reject to every single major retailer that has reached out to us and they've all

reached out just given how they seen the brand. Yeah. And yeah, it's like hey we

brand. Yeah. And yeah, it's like hey we don't we don't need retail because the metrics that I'm seeing right now are online still growing very very fast and all the

unit economics still make a lot of sense. Yeah. So if we're growing that at

sense. Yeah. So if we're growing that at this rate already it's like okay then we'll look at okay at what point do we need to enter China or need to enter

retail? probably going to be, you know,

retail? probably going to be, you know, 12 to 24 months out. But even for China more specifically, I want to enter China when my brand is so strong globally that

when you enter China, then everyone's going to be rarely talking about it. You

will have like, you know, 2,000 people in line trying to buy or whatever, right? So, u that's when I want to enter

right? So, u that's when I want to enter China because I think a lot of founders, you know, they they may think, well, you know, China is a huge market. They want

to enter ASAP, blah, blah, blah, etc. But nine out of 10 companies, they fail in China because it's a completely different business model in China.

Whatever works outside of China, even what we're doing now, it may be working, but it's completely different in China.

So, you only have that much resources and that much bandwidth, right? Um, and

then so yeah, so we just need to Yeah.

be patient. Yeah, I was I was doing another interview with some interesting founders before and a friend said to me, patience, patience, the meaning of that is just hard work

and I really like that. Um, couple last questions. This has been awesome. I

questions. This has been awesome. I

could talk to you all day, man, and just geek out on the numbers, the growth, how you guys are doing it. This is really helpful. Um, this is going to help a lot

helpful. Um, this is going to help a lot of founders. So, thank you. So,

of founders. So, thank you. So,

you launched your daily ultimate longevity product in October 2025.

targeting the 12 hallmarks of aging which immediately increased average order value from 110 to 150. We talked

about that but how do you know when it's the right time to launch a new product, raise prices or go up market or go premium.

A lot of it you have to understand your product too, right? Yeah. Because

ultimately again when we came into the market you know we wanted to be a premium supplement brand. So by default wise again you see our daily ultimate sense was $89 a month $78 for the three

month subscription and we they again for health and wellness you know longevity is something I think we can all appreciate and want to not just live

longer yeah but we want to live longer healthier right so with our longevity product we launched in October again 10 key compounds targeting the aging hallmarks and slowing down the aging process right so going back to your

question again we knew So that was a very very good product and that consumers if they value and they see the breakdown of it yeah they'll appreciate it right and again I I challenge

everyone you know whoever meets like hey how do you you know how do you guys compare to the greens powder I was like very easy don't trust my word just put our ingredient list into cloud put into chatbt put in math see what it says

don't trust me trust what AI says right because AI is going to be unbiased right so we best product in the market today uh and we're very proud out of that. And

so I think if you have a best good product in the market, consumers will pay for that, right? And then ultimately now our average order value is well over

$200, which is really high for a supplements brand. Probably one of the

supplements brand. Probably one of the highest in the industry, I would imagine.

What hasn't worked? What has been some of like the big things where you're just like, "Fuck, I just wasted like half million bucks or a million bucks and I can share it with the community of tests

that you've run which you think are really valuable that you thought would really work out but they haven't."

Yeah. I mean, I think as mentioned earlier, right, I think yeah, in February, we we try this unlock spend, right? Um, yeah, with meta and just kind

right? Um, yeah, with meta and just kind of like, you know, going from 100 grand a day to 200 grand a day or I think was maybe even more than that, right? So I

think over a three-day period of time we probably you know wasted you know four 500,000 USD. Uh but it was a very

500,000 USD. Uh but it was a very painful learning lesson for us right uh and then that really said hey you know what if we really

needed to unlock spend we need to change a lot of different things that we do on the account. Uh at that time you know to

the account. Uh at that time you know to be fair we have multiple accounts. Uh so

we consolidated a lot of the accounts into a single account on meta uh and kind the creatives we really relooked at the creatives to really ensure that it

would actually had enough diversity otherwise you will be cannibalizing the audiences. Uh yeah, so it was a very

audiences. Uh yeah, so it was a very painful lesson, but again, sometimes when you have these painful lessons, it really forces you to think differently and learn from it. And then now we've

been able to unlock them, right? And now

we're again, we're able to spend, you know, upwards of almost 200,000 a day while maintaining a good return ad spend that allows it for to be profitable.

Okay, last question, then we have to wrap.

Excuse me.

So, last question before we wrap. This

has been awesome. I could speak to you all day about this stuff, man. Like,

thank you. Looking back at everything you've built, what does success look like for you now beyond money? And is it ever enough?

Um, you know, to be fair, I've never looked at just a pair the money aspect of things, right? I

things, right? I ultimately believe, yeah, for me, I I love to create, right? I love to create products and for me why yeah I'm so yeah

I'm I just love what I do today because again I get so I get to meet amazing people around the world I get to travel I can meet amazing people and I get to yeah you kind of like yeah share you

know what we're creating here right so I I think number one you just have to love what you do and again going back to the product you can't just do it for the money uh but if you have success you

know ultimately that will come right and even to refer like you know even you have to believe in it like all I I always believe you have to go in it all in uh whatever you decide you can't have

like a backup option right and then this is how we went into it a lot every one of my previous business also I I gave up a lot to do it yeah even you know give

me an example I mean when I did you buy I buy I lived in the US at the time and I packed my bags and moved to Hong Kong which I never lived in Hong Kong before I never did e-commerce before, right? I

just packed my bags in one month and moved there. So, I had to gave it all

moved there. So, I had to gave it all in. So, I had no options to fail, right?

in. So, I had no options to fail, right?

If it didn't work, I would like it would be very embarrassing. Yeah. So, yeah,

even for IMA, it's like, okay, how do we create the best product into the market?

How do we get all these people around and you have it's like I think we did combination of like a hundred different things that we did, right? But I think going back to your question in terms of what success looks like is just creating

impact uh day in and day out.

All right. So what also is exciting for you that you want to share?

I mean I think one pieces of this which is is just quite crazy. Yeah. From when

we started this brand whereas now we have so many amazing big big athletes. Yeah. That are using the product and again you started with David Beckham. Of course arena started

David Beckham. Of course arena started in June. Last month we also announced

in June. Last month we also announced Ali Beerman is doing amazing after two races at F1. I was just with him in Shanghai. He's on the product. his

Shanghai. He's on the product. his

parents are on the product and you know I can share now we recently signed out Giannis uh yeah two-time MVP world champion so it's just amazing these

these and these individuals their teams have reached out to me right they love the product and so I think just been amazing to be surrounded with this top athletes because the great athletes is

that they have so many options when it comes to this category um and they so many people are looking yeah to them And our products NSF certified for sport. So it means that if

you are an athlete is free from 280 banned substances around the world, right? So just the fact that you just

right? So just the fact that you just sometimes just scratch my head is is this real? Right. So all these people.

this real? Right. So all these people.

So it's been an amazing journey thus far in the last 14 15 months.

Yeah, it's crazy. You you're you're really rewriting the playbook for DTOC growth especially from ambassador standpoint you know like Nike did and uh it's super impressive. So,

congratulations on all of your success thus far. You're welcome back anytime.

thus far. You're welcome back anytime.

I'd love to have you back on in the future when you guys are, you know, past 200 million ARR. But, thank you again.

Thank you, Nathan. I appreciate it.

All right. So, if you love this episode, make sure to check out my interview with Alex Hozi on how he scales companies from zero straight to $2 million a month in less than a year.

People were like, "How have you like there's 5 years of my life that disappeared? In fact, I lost all the

disappeared? In fact, I lost all the money, which I talk about in the book. I

had all the gyms, I did the turnarounds, and then I had zero dollars 5 years later because of mistakes that I made.

But the things that I was gaining was not the money. It was the skills. It was

the character traits and the beliefs.