Inside $37 Billion Creator Economy (don't miss out)

The issue is that brands are seeing creators as like these Hollywood storytellers but then wanting them to perform like programmatic ad units and there's a massive disconnect. Engagement

is such a blunt metric. It just screen doesn't really capture the comments the brand.

>> You don't want to reduce creators to just another place to get reach. You

don't give a [ __ ] about traditional advertising anymore. Creators are the

advertising anymore. Creators are the most creative people in the world, right? Like they know 1 second, 3

right? Like they know 1 second, 3 second, 5second hook rate better than just about anyone. And then I posted the group chat one Sunday and one week later I had 1.7 million and was on the Today

Show and in Rolling Stone magazine and had a cameo from Charlie Puth which was crazy. And

crazy. And hi there. I recently hosted my first

hi there. I recently hosted my first ever Next to Media event in New York with my partners at View Planner during which we talked to folks from across the creator meets media meets brand ecosystem. And so this week we're

ecosystem. And so this week we're turning highlights of that gathering into a special bonus podcast episode.

We've got tons of insightful comments from the likes of Lumis Conor McKenna, Ian Schaefer from Assembly, Jamie Goodfriend of Creator Vision, Ally Parish from Horizon, and many more. We

even talked to a real life creator.

There's lots to get into. So, let's get started. We when I decided to do this

started. We when I decided to do this event a few months ago, I thought I I I was thinking you're seeing so much attention all of a sudden around uh the creator economy has got a lot of attention for a couple years, but really

like all of a sudden brands are really realizing this is a huge space that they need to be in in a bigger way. And um

you start seeing like uh all this all these um other other folks coming into the space realizing we've got to try and figure out how to accelerate this process. you start seeing some of the

process. you start seeing some of the huge brands saying we're going to spend half our budgets on creator creator uh advertising and my thinking was man that's going to be challenging is the is the space you would always say things

like could you actually spend $50 million in creators really quickly or not um do we have the infrastructure so that that was kind of the thinking and then just in the past uh couple days IB

is putting out a a number that the econ the creator sector is going to grow to 37 billion this year and adio just raised raised $40 billion. So, I think we're good. We finished it. We figured

we're good. We finished it. We figured

the industry out. We're all done. We

don't need to be here. Um, but no. Yeah.

So, thank you. Well done. Um, but no, so there there it just seems like there is so much momentum in this space, but so much to figure out. So, that's kind of what I'm thinking here. And I'm very thankful to my my partners at View Planner for helping go on this journey

with me and and and decide, let's do an event together and see how it goes. And

they've been super super up for anything. And so, thank you both to John

anything. And so, thank you both to John and Amy and Scott's not here. Uh, I need to thank Jamie Goodfriend who has been instrumental in getting a lot of you folks here and just helping put some fuel behind this event and get us

started. Um,

started. Um, >> yeah, that's burgers, alcohol. You said

I'll fly in. Let's do it. So, um, I I hope this goes well. I've never done an event my own before. So far so good. You

came. That's pretty good. Um, I'm going to start with we're going to try and blaze through a lot of content quickly um because I overchedu this. Um, but

we're going to make it work. But we're

going to start out with take a macro view of this the space and I'm going to call up Conor McKenna who's a partner at Luma and Zoe who's the VP of the IB experience center. I'm going to stand to

experience center. I'm going to stand to the side. You guys have a seat. Um

the side. You guys have a seat. Um

grab the microphone.

>> Well, yeah. There's the mic.

>> Where is the mic? You got it. Okay. You

guys want >> between us? Yes. All right. Back and

forth. Um so Conor I'm starting with you because you kind of you kind of inspired a lot of the thinking here because when you had an event loom had an event back I think it was May um sort of talking

about I think I think people have always wondered whether you can does adtech have a role in this space or is it is it inherently difficult to bring technology to something that is seen as so custom

and so it's all about au creator authenticity right so and you you were kind of saying hey maybe this is the moment where the industry can make some more waves and bring bring more dollars

in smoother is in a smoother way. So

that's a long way of me asking what how are we doing on that front where what were you thinking then have things accelerated in the right direction?

Yeah, I I think um so just for for frame reference, so I'm at a partner, Luma.

We're an investment bank. We focus on M&A in adtech. So I've been in advertising technology for you know 11 plus years and all the stuff that you know let shoes follow you around the internet right and where is there

opportunities to to build you know scalable addressable advertising and the technology behind it and we advise those companies. So we're always trying to

companies. So we're always trying to think about sort of where where's the next avenue of the channel you know start you know CTV mobile apps etc. And if you look at the open web, I mean

frankly there's there's big challenges there. So there's almost like an

there. So there's almost like an existential where's the next big media channel and uh you know if you look at time spent of consumers, amount of media I mean obviously there's there's always

been a ton of time spent on uh Walgreens gardens you know Meta, Google etc. The challenge has been for adtech is that they're controlled right? So the yeah great meta makes all the money there,

Google makes all the money there. The

the thing that I noticed and where I think there's an opportunity is those have shifted, right? Meta used to be a social platform. It's not a social

social platform. It's not a social platform. 7% of time spent on Instagram

platform. 7% of time spent on Instagram is with friends or people, you know, it is an entertainment platform. So, as

that becomes an entertainment platform and you've got things like shorts and reals and Tik Tok all blending, these become competitive. And so, that opens

become competitive. And so, that opens up a dynamic where >> tech can now come in and sort of step in to to sort of manage across it. And if

you look at where technology can capture margin in an advertising framework, it is always where is there fragmented media. So is is the supply fragmented

media. So is is the supply fragmented where technology can come and make that easier for marketers to buy across. What

is more fragmented than the creator ecosystem where there's you know what is it the quantum of all of TV added to YouTube a day. So there's massive amount of fragmentation. The challenge is can

of fragmentation. The challenge is can you find a way to actually apply uh you know capabilities to that to address it that doesn't have to go through YouTube.

Now I think there is still a huge opportunity for the wall gardens but increasingly with adtech both I think it's existential as what's happening to where time spent is going on and what's happening with the open web as it

relates to you know AI and navigation and all the rest and two there's just a massive opportunity that is where consumers are spending their time that is what's influencing their decisions and there's now that there's sort of

competition the wall gardens go from wall gardens to distribution platforms and that's where where technology can step in so I you know I think that's sort of the framework where do I think we are I mean almost nowhere like adtech

is I'd say there's been obviously a huge opportunity the creator space has done very well on its own but it's been very manual in my view it's sort of the age earlier agency days the technology ecosystem has to come in and they're

starting to but it's it's >> so is it is it is it that the wald gardens are a little bit more opened up or is it that the adtech companies are like I don't know about the open web I

need to shift to something else and I need to re rethink about how I define what's >> Yeah, I think um a little bit of both. I

don't know. You'd say the wall gardens have opened up. I mean, they understand that creators are critical for them and that their creators are balancing across different things. They don't want to be

different things. They don't want to be tied to just meta metrics. And so that challenge opens up like, hey, there's there's technology that can can start to make margin there. We are seeing that whether it's, you know, in the creator

space or just optimizing meta spend better um is is getting better sort of across the board. There's more margin there than I've seen the last decade.

All right. By the way, um people can ask questions and jump in while we're talking here. Like it's Christmas Eve.

talking here. Like it's Christmas Eve.

We're all together. Let's let's just feel feel free to, you know, be we're a family. Joey, um from your point of

family. Joey, um from your point of view, we we you and I talked about this when we had our prep call. I think you were in a cab. I was at a train. It was

like real the quickest prep. But yes,

but um >> the there is a total recognition, right, of the importance of this creator space.

I guess there's the question in from advertising where to put it, how to fund it, and like the disconnect. You talked

about the disconnect between maybe like the folks that control the big media budgets and how to how to execute things. Can you kind of expand on that

things. Can you kind of expand on that thinking a little bit?

>> Yeah. Hi everyone. I'm Zoe. I run the creator and gaming um verticals at the IAB. So, a lot of industry work. Um I

IAB. So, a lot of industry work. Um I

think where advertising is I mean Unilver went out and said 50% of their marketing spend is going to sort of creator related things. Um as you mentioned we're about to have a research

an annual ad spend research come out on the 20th and it's it's shown that creators grow growing 400% faster than the average of digital media. So,

>> so that's great. Like,

>> so advertisers are like there and sort of like as Connor said, we're trying to catch up. Um, the issue is that, you

catch up. Um, the issue is that, you know, brands are seeing creators as like these Hollywood storytellers, but then wanting them to perform like programmatic ad units, and there's a massive disconnect. So, we don't have

massive disconnect. So, we don't have the infrastructure, the measurement's not there. Um, it's in different teams.

not there. Um, it's in different teams. It's can be in the PR team as opposed to the media buying team.

>> Uh, but I think, you know, three things are really driving it.

the collapse of traditional media and just like Gen Z are just not on those platforms where you can find them.

They're very advoidant. Um creators have this amazing trust and relationship that have they've sort of like nurtured and got with their audience.

>> Uh I think G today COO of um WPP was saying you know people like me there's like a lot of people like me relationships. And then the third thing

relationships. And then the third thing is built-in distribution. Like you just can't beat that scale. Um I think you were saying like the quantum amount of TV going into So those three things are

really driving advertiser interest >> and this this something I I I saw a panel during advertising week which it was an interesting there was there's a little bit of you mentioned how this came up with this bubble up from PR at

least the early influencer days and now it seems to be the domain of either the social agency or the media agency but there's one brand was saying no I think this should be coming out of the creative department because they're so

some of the creators are so integral to what we do. I don't Is there any kind of um uniformity that we could expect? Is

that is that possible? I mean, that's what we're aiming for to have one supply chain that has standard processes and

you know, teams that communicate. Um

yeah, the the gap the the goal is to close that gap between >> Yeah. Okay.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> Yeah. Go ahead,

>> please. I I think the other aspect is is the creative and the the media buying agency are collapsing anyway or need to um together as in like they're they're

merging um >> if you're to look at you know meta performance advertising anyway like you now have to upload 50 creatives at a time and then meta chooses what works right

>> um and so yes creative needs to be part of it because you're asking creators to have to make the creative that then you know drives the spend but you need to the the goal says, "Okay, get a bunch of creative that works and let their

algorithms decide what's actually going to drive outcomes and and business performance." That's that's the goal is

performance." That's that's the goal is let that engine work. And on the other side, you need to be able to scale the the sort of creative, you know, creation by accessing a lot of creators. Um the

challenge before has been you've got to guarantee that spend to all of them before you know what works. This is

where the, you know, opportunity is heading. It's interesting because this

heading. It's interesting because this is happening at a time when um there there is so much exuberance around AI and so much hype but the um the ad community is wrestling with handing over

so much of their control and advertising to algorithms and big tech companies which seems kind of diametrically opposed to this whole authenticity real realness of creators. Are those things

going to be in conflict or can they work together? I don't know if either of you

together? I don't know if either of you have thoughts on that. Yeah, look, I so I I yesterday I interviewed um Mark Darcy who's the the chief uh creative officer or or CVP of creative for

Microsoft AI, really big marketer, was the chief creative officer for Facebook for over a decade. Um and and he had this great point around just, you know, uh humanist AI, right? And and the focus

on that. I don't think we you you lose

on that. I don't think we you you lose any of that. Um the the aspect here is how do you go find niches with lots of creative that's personalized to each of those audiences. I mean if you're if

those audiences. I mean if you're if you're you know unilver right and you've got uh you know one of their soap brands I'm I'm going to mess up which is png unilver right now so I'll keep it there.

um you know why should you and I see the same ad or same creator if if we are using completely different audiences that's the opportunity that doesn't necessarily lose the authenticity for me

or you it's just creating scalability in a differentiated way and so you can use you know maybe AI in that case I I don't think AI for all the creative um is the same he has this great line like

mediocrity is free now with AI and creative but you can't get that with a creator right so you can still have that sort of you know that own impression is just how do you scale that? You need to

have an engine on the back end that's not sending you and I the exact same creator just because the scalability was there if we're going to react to different creators doing the same ad.

So, we uh one of the things that came up, you guys had a um at at a conference call today talking about the the forecast you're putting out and the um it feels like I' I've heard people say

that right now brands are jumping into creator deals almost not totally sure.

It's not not that they're doing it on a whim, but they don't have a very standard way of tracking success yet.

Whereas so much of the rest of the industry is gone hardcore into outcomes or everything and everything has to be super trackable. I I don't I wonder if

super trackable. I I don't I wonder if creator creator integrations can ever get there, but is there do we need some kind of like GRP for this industry or

something that is or the some version of of the clickthrough and a search ad where there's a standardization of how we evaluate these deals or is that just never going to never going to be possible?

>> Can we just talk about that today? Um

>> I mean I think there there are different metrics that go with different goals.

So, if your goal is a top of funnel, then it's obviously going to be reach versus conversion. Um, the research

versus conversion. Um, the research study that we're about to put out says a lot of the data that brands are using to um assess campaigns comes from first party. Um, it's a triedand- trueue

party. Um, it's a triedand- trueue answer of like you need the apples to apples, but it would be nice to have something that captured the essence of creator that goes beyond just time on

screen, right? Engagement is such a

screen, right? Engagement is such a blunt metric. just time and screen it

blunt metric. just time and screen it doesn't really capture the the comments the the brand >> you don't want to reduce creators to

just another place to get reach like that's that's offers so um I would love to see us get to a place where we have you know a a universal metric that sort of has the apples to apples but I I

question whether we can do that based on the different brand goals and yeah it's a >> yeah also I think that the the platforms aren't incentivized to make that possible, right? The asymmetry of

possible, right? The asymmetry of information is to their benefit. Uh it's

why they've done so well. Now that

actually we move from, you know, to reals and shorts and stuff, it's even harder on YouTube for creators to make money because the revshare is very different. Um and you actually rely more

different. Um and you actually rely more on creator tools. They don't, you know, >> TV relied on the, you know, the GRP and Neielson and yet if you ask anyone TV, they hate it now. So, you know, um I

don't think, you know, I don't think those those distribution platforms are incentivized to try to make that happen.

At the same time, that's where technology can come in and and move on top of it. Um and and again, it moves to its performance and optimization. I

don't think, you know, uh pure reach and frequency is is exactly where we're going to. And are you going to be able

going to. And are you going to be able to tie your reach on Meta to your reach on Tik Tok? Probably not. like and I I think relying on that is >> that's an issue regardless of creators or is that just that's just difficult.

>> Yeah. Well, you're not gonna they're not going to share enough data back where you can you know match across what's working. Now, can you see hey we we have

working. Now, can you see hey we we have this list of people we want to you know sort of exclude on on you know from targeting on meta and exclude from targeting on Tik Tok. You can do tests

and manage it that way but it has to be fed into the monetization engine. It

can't work if you're just doing it through organic posting. And so that's sort of that merging of of you know the creator spend with the monetization engines that I think unlocks a lot of the scalability here.

>> I guess I guess last question for you both is it is it a good kind of related to that. Is it a good or bad thing

to that. Is it a good or bad thing you're seeing YouTube in particular getting getting they were they've gone back and forth to how involved they wanted to be in brokering and creator deals. Now they seem to be leaning into

deals. Now they seem to be leaning into that. that seems like it's good for the

that. that seems like it's good for the ecosystem, but I don't know if it's makes it harder for third parties to come in and kind of become play that role or is it is it fine that you know there's a lot of different ways into

this world or does that make it more complicated?

>> Yeah. Okay. Selfishly speaking, I I think uh not good because the less they're involved, the more there's room for third party technology. But I also don't think creators want it. The a good

example of this is less about YouTube, but actually um you know Meta acquired a business called customer that was meant to be like a CRM for creators. They got

a lot of push back. People did not want Meta managing all of their emails and relationships because creators are not, you know, uh singular channel. Even if

YouTube is their primary channel, >> that feels like they're giving up newsletter or they use Instagram or their their sort of organic reach and they funnel them down to YouTube. Um I

don't think people want to give that control up to any of those platforms. So if they can help facilitate that, hey, if you make those deals, we can make it scalable, that's interesting. But I

don't think they want them involved in the direct negotiation.

>> All right.

>> I think I agree. Just crossplatform is really interesting for for creators. So

>> yeah, >> Zoe, how many people said that they uh consider creator a must buy in the study?

>> Over 50% of US buyers, Jamie, >> there you go.

>> It was second only to search and social.

So >> um yes and also Chris Brutley is my research partner. He ran the research

research partner. He ran the research for us. So if you have specific

for us. So if you have specific questions feel free to hit them up.

>> Terrific. All right Connor, thank you so much. You can start off.

much. You can start off.

Um and now it's time for Alli Parish.

She's group director with Blue Hour Studios and Jeremy Stewart's SVP and co-founder of View Planner.

Come on up guys.

So Ally, we talked about this um you're you kind of have lived the evolution of um all the different ways that brands and agencies have sort of parked these budgets or handled this strategy. Um

maybe maybe tell us like how that you know h how that has evolved for you and your career and and along the way help us understand what blue hour is and why it's sort of horizon and all that stuff.

Give us your journey a little bit.

>> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So hi, I'm Ally Parish. Um, I head up our account team

Parish. Um, I head up our account team at Blue Hour Studios here in New York.

Blue Hour is the social content and influencer arm within Horizon Media. Um,

we started in 2018 or 2019. Um, and you know, since then have have really just seen the the growth of the creator space in such an interesting way. And because

we are, you know, embedded and kind of born out of Horizon Media, that media integration, you know, like you're saying, Mike, has has been so interesting to to see that evolution over time.

>> Have you seen clashing philosophies on that over time?

>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, there's going back to to some of the the measurement questions and is there, you know, one way that that we should be measuring um from the the last

panel up here. That's certainly

something that we've seen where you know that that understanding from back in you know the old days maybe oh we should be looking at it like a a GRP is the standardization to now there is that

understanding that >> there is impact in breaking through in um you know really high views things of that nature um I think has been really the the biggest shift

>> German now you're you're you guys are not a creator ad tech company per se but you I'm but you are you play a role in helping brands navigate YouTube and find the right contacts. I guess is this is

this an ask that you get to help them sort out how to buy the right creators and the right and getting the right next messages and could could you see this is this something that is scalable over

time in a way that we think about it.

>> Yes. Yes and no. Um so I'm Jeremy. I'm

uh co-founder of view planner. Um and

and so just a little bit of background there. We've been in the space for um

there. We've been in the space for um since 2018 trying to do um measurement, suitability, contextual relevance on YouTube. Um so we didn't start out with

YouTube. Um so we didn't start out with a uh the idea of of scoring creator content. It was really just aligning

content. It was really just aligning relevant content with brand advertising.

Um but recently, you know, we've been getting more into the creator space because we we have been getting a lot of requests of brands wanting to engage um creators in their strategies. Um so the

solutions that we try to provide are um can we align that type of content? How

do we build a framework where it's repeatable, predictable for brands to understand what type of content is going to perform well? Um, we've got some uh solutions that do predictive AI scoring

on creative. Um, and we've done that

on creative. Um, and we've done that repeatably on creator content especially. We have a case study with

especially. We have a case study with Kagra from last year where they did 26 different influencers. Um, and so when

different influencers. Um, and so when we start started looking at that data with respect to creator content, understanding what those predictive scores were and how they correlated with

YouTube performance, then we started understanding that yes, there can be some uh level of standardization and ability to scale this content and try to find the right content.

>> And like with that Kagura example, um, do they how do they evaluate that that kind of campaign? Is it does it get kind of lumped in with everything else they're doing on YouTube which might be compared to television or more of a

reach play or is it is it there's something distinctive that they do there that kind of unlocks the value of those of those kind of deals when they get came to I mean this was something they had just done completely kind of separate it wasn't it was uh obviously

it was for the brands that they normally advertise on but um they didn't really have much expectation I I don't think and so when we saw the creatives they were not creatives that you would normally see on CTV or standard and they

were very raw saw somebody just talking for 15 seconds about how they use bird's eye vegetables, you know, and we looked at it and we're like, "Do you really want to run this on YouTube?" And this this wasn't what we were used to seeing.

And so, um, I I think that they were a little bit hesitant. We we did our predictive scoring. We sold them, these

predictive scoring. We sold them, these are the ones we think were going to, you know, perform better from a brand lift perspective. It bore out, but they

perspective. It bore out, but they actually ran them all. Uh, and then I think they were pleasantly surprised that what they actually ended up with was, uh, but it it wasn't something that they were anticipating.

>> Right.

Ally, one thing I you you hear this a lot and I want wonder if this is your experience that I mean every deal is different, every integration is different, right? But you hear about

different, right? But you hear about these calls that um so and so creator will have where there'll be the social agency, the traditional media agency, the talent agency, some kind of

intermediary like five or six uh entities on the same kind of project trying to figure out the right execution.

Is that is that is something that's still happening? And is that something

still happening? And is that something that is is that a problem? is I just like the way the way this is the nature of the ind industry is always going to be or can we do anything about that?

>> Yeah, I mean I think it's so interesting over the years we've seen that you know influencer and creator content lives with different teams. You know everyone

kind of wants a slice of the pie. Um, I

think right now we're at a place where the integration of media, influencer, creative, and and content overall is definitely a positive in terms of making sure that, you know, at least for me and

my team, all of those different teams are are creating that brief upfront together. So that um the the ultimate

together. So that um the the ultimate creator content and the ultimate creator identification, you know, is very integrated. It all speaks to the same

integrated. It all speaks to the same thing. Um, you know, we're we're often

thing. Um, you know, we're we're often also seeing that can we think of media ideas up front when we think about, you know, a specific talent to to work with.

Um, so I think the more we can be integrated there and kind of speak that same language, just the the better. And

that's definitely what we've seen.

>> What do you both think about is there a way to you're seeing efforts to standardize these kind of deals. Um, you

know, YouTube's got this dynamic ad in search product. you're seeing other

search product. you're seeing other companies trying to almost make an integration like something you could repeat. Um, but I guess the danger there

repeat. Um, but I guess the danger there or the the challenge there is do you lose the specialness of doing a really custom integration, but you want to talk you if you want to do deal with a thousand influencers that's really

difficult to do like can you do those things where they're still effective um and they didn't do it the right way. Is

that >> so the the latest version of um you know YouTube's brand connect which is now called the creator partnerships hub uh is they've basically taken that connective marketplace and they've put

it inside Google ads um for the first time and so it's still I think in the alpha stage but but we've been using it for the last 3 4 weeks um and so you can

really engage with uh so there's over 3 million creators in the YouTube measurement or the YouTube um partner program so there's a variety I mean there's there's more than you can ever imagine. But what's nice about it is

imagine. But what's nice about it is when you do some simple searches, you can al also see uh any given topic, any given brand, the authentic uh you know non-branded stuff that that influencers

are actually talking and engaging brands. So you can partner on with them,

brands. So you can partner on with them, you can promote stuff that they've already done that really does feel authentic because you do want uh that au you don't want to lose that. Um, so I think it's possible, but it is still a

maze to to try to figure out how do you get to those those right um influencers.

>> Uh, what do you think?

>> I would agree.

>> All right.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Nothing major to to add. Is

there is there a value like let's say that because you've seen companies come along and say we can we can um do like a standard brand mention and do it for thousands of creators at once and that's you know that's pretty that's closer to

programmatic advertising than we've ever been but it's not exactly the same thing. Are those you know are those

thing. Are those you know are those worthwhile or do you find that brands are not getting this you're just getting quick mentions and not getting the the real audience connection that the whole space is supposed to be so about?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think going into any creator content with a very clear goal and understanding that there are multiple roles that any of that that

content can play. Um there definitely is the you know mass volume affiliate play that is going to make sense for some some goals for some brands. Um, but on the other hand, you know, that

authenticity that, you know, inserting a brand into um, you know, maybe it's an existing storyline that an influencer or or a creator has and maybe it's their

own series. I think there's pros and

own series. I think there's pros and cons to to both. It's really about finding space for how do we not put influencer in just one role and see that it has many.

>> Yeah. So, both question for both of you.

What is what is missing? what what's on your list if you could if we if we want to if if we wanted to if we want brands to really fully take advantage of this opportunity and have the be able to spend the dollars they're talking about

like what what are we what is it what are we missing is it measurement is it infrastructure just more education like what's kind of for both of you what what are we missing here

>> uh I I think it's definitely um the like from the last panel the standardization of what we're trying to measure on YouTube uh I think it's like 70% of creators do both short and long-term

video. And so they do there is an

video. And so they do there is an opportunity there to to get, you know, traditional types of uh measurement, but then you have to understand how does that then apply to shorts or whatever else they're doing. But um having the

ability to um to get to some sort of a lifetime value of a creator of, you know, can we continue to go back to the same creators? Are we able to score

same creators? Are we able to score their predictive so that it or predictively score their uh creative so that we know over time? Um because I think that historically it's been go

find a creator or a few and on a specific and it's it's the frameworks and the and the um you know the ability to scale that has been very difficult.

So I think that's moving in the right direction and as soon as we get that whatever that uh that metric is that we're all agreed upon I think um we're getting closer.

>> Uh what about you? What's your wish list? I would say I mean I think

list? I would say I mean I think definitely that measurement integration across the board um is super key. Being

able to you know just better tie the the longer tail impact of any creator content you know we can say okay this piece of content got so and so many organic views. It really you know broke

organic views. It really you know broke through for the brand. That's great but what does that do for it you know over time? Um I think that is the biggest

time? Um I think that is the biggest question. I mean that's really the

question. I mean that's really the biggest question of all advertising.

>> Yes.

Uh, before I let these folks out, anybody have any questions for Alli or Jeremy?

>> All right, you're both off. Thank you so much, guys. Conor's coming back up and

much, guys. Conor's coming back up and he's going to talk to Arthur.

>> Thank you.

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Well, hello again uh to everyone. Uh now

I'll look at this way. Last thing I was faced that way. So um uh you know to talk about the creator space and obviously where I'm focused is is

technology. Um and so I'm really happy

technology. Um and so I'm really happy to have uh Arthur here from Aentio. Uh

we met what a year ago, right? And I

feel like um I get to the benefit of just getting to talk about really high level things which is a lot of where my commentary is based on what I've seen sort of at 30,000 ft. Um and when we met

I we kind of had a mind meld of oh wow this is what you're actually building.

So uh Agentia is just a fascinating platform um from my perspective uh in in the creator space and really bringing that scalability I talked to to this

ecosystem um and you know uh not planned by this but uh actually announced a 40 million series B today. So uh a lot of congratulations to Arthur and the team

there. Um, so let's just maybe just for

there. Um, so let's just maybe just for people who aren't familiar, I don't know how familiar people are, I'm not going to try to describe Agentio. I'll let you do that and just introduce yourself and >> Yeah. Um, and yeah, tell them tell them

>> Yeah. Um, and yeah, tell them tell them what Aentio is all about and we'll go from there.

>> Awesome. Hey everyone, uh, my name is Arthur Leopold. I'm CEO and co-founder

Arthur Leopold. I'm CEO and co-founder of Aentio. um the friction that you were

of Aentio. um the friction that you were just hearing about in the last panel and like the challenges that marketers face with trying to partner with creators, trying to measure creators, um this like

very archaic way of trying to shape creators into your campaigns um is what we're trying to solve for. And if you think about uh global digital ad spend,

there's about $10 billion today running direct from brands to creators and $800 billion running through Meta and the Trade Desk and and Amazon and Google. Um

and the reason the creator space is so constrained is because of all the complexity around deal making, negotiation, brand safety, measurement.

Um and in building Aentio, prior to Ajentio, I helped start Cameo and saw the friction that fans had to deal with and then of course brands were reaching out. Um, in building Agentia, we

out. Um, in building Agentia, we realized that because of large language models and because of my co-founders experience uh, building adtech at at Spotify, we could actually automate the

friction and eliminate all the challenges that marketers have to deal with today in trying to build and scale creator programs. Um, and what that would do uh, inevitably is is shift

these paid media budgets to the best storytellers in the world, those who have the strongest audiences. Um, and

those who like, you know, you guys on your phone right now, like you're consuming creator content. You don't

give a [ __ ] about traditional advertising anymore. Um, and that's only

advertising anymore. Um, and that's only going to continue to to increase this this connection that creators have with their audiences. Um, we we started the

their audiences. Um, we we started the business uh two years ago or launched the platform two years ago. Um,

benchmark led our series A 11 months ago and we we just announced a $40 million series B today. Um, and we've been able to scale so quickly because we have the very best consumer brands in the country

now partnering with creators in a scalable way. So, what does that mean?

scalable way. So, what does that mean?

Um, it means that brands like Uber and Lollipop and Skiims and Viori and Door Dash and um, a lot of the brands that we all are probably wearing, Bomba Socks,

uh, they they can scale budgets from 50K a month to over a million dollars without additional bandwidth needs on their end or our end. Uh, we have $500,000 budgets get filled in under 24

hours, a process that historically would have taken six plus months. So, there's

a lot of like OG adtech people in this room. Um, think back to like 20 years

room. Um, think back to like 20 years ago when people were buying ads on the internet, right? You like call up a

internet, right? You like call up a website and try to get like that upper right hand corner of of um of the page and of course like DoubleClick came along and the trade desk came along. uh

and they automated away all the complexity and in doing so they they brought hundreds of billions of dollars into digital advertising to publishers.

Um we're taking that exact same approach to creator advertising. Our belief is that the future of advertising is creatorled. Um it's unfortunately been

creatorled. Um it's unfortunately been too constrained for too long. We started

with YouTube as our initial sort of wedge. So these are like 90 second

wedge. So these are like 90 second creator integrations. creator talking

creator integrations. creator talking about why they love uh why they love a brand and it's an insanely performant ad unit because of the storytelling nature and you know we've since turned on a a

partnership post uh beta on on Meta and um we're going to be using this funding of course to expand to every platform and enable advertisers to come into Gento and put in a million dollars a

minute a day a week a month or whatever whatever it is and um we can identify which creators on which platforms can drive the best outcomes for advertising users and shift those dollars accordingly. So that's what we're

accordingly. So that's what we're building towards.

>> All right, that was a very wholesome introduction. Uh you took like three of

introduction. Uh you took like three of my questions away there. So let me let me uh shift here. So one of the the reasons you mentioned sort of you know ad tech scaled with doubleclick and

others also with with the IAB and and with standardization right whether that standardization was add units so a banner is you know 250 by 300 um or RTB

specs and things like that that allowed people to run on on similar rails. Um

you know wall gardens historically have been you know uh wall gardens right so they create their own rules you don't get a lot of data they control the standardization um you know maybe we'll

focus on YouTube because that's where you guys have started but what is sort of that that unlock to the standardization or the or maybe it's not the standardization maybe it's just the

workflow that allows that scalability to go from 50,000 to to a million you know in in 24 hours that has been so challenging the creators space.

>> Yeah, a lot of it has to do with this with standardizing the ad unit. Um, and

especially on YouTube, I'm sure many of you feel this, especially at View Planner. Uh, YouTube's still like

Planner. Uh, YouTube's still like people don't understand it. It's

misunderstood. It doesn't get the recognition that it deserves. Um, and we realized that there was this 60-second ad unit where we could get a lot of data from creators connecting their their

YouTube accounts to Aenttoio. um while

we might not get like the view through data, we could we certainly could infer certain things and on the paid side, we could use the best measurement attribution suites out there, Google and

and Meta's um measurement platform. So,

we could standardize creator content in two ways. One, uh enable the buying of

two ways. One, uh enable the buying of it to be really easy through this bidding model that we've we've pioneered in the creator space where brands load up campaigns. We um create strategies.

up campaigns. We um create strategies.

We have this agentic strategy creation and we launch these strategies to help a brand hit their goals. The brands

approve the creators. Sometimes the

machine just approves the creators on the brand's behalf. Creators receive the bids. Creators upload the content. Uh

bids. Creators upload the content. Uh

creators are told instantaneously like if you know you're away luggage and there was a competitive bag in the background or a creator didn't use a QR code. So all of this process that today

code. So all of this process that today takes a lot of people is now standardized and that enables a level of scale. Um that's on the YouTube side.

scale. Um that's on the YouTube side.

And then on the Meta side, like Meta's out there beating the drum today. The

most performant ad unit on Meta are partnership ads. Uh but really hard to

partnership ads. Uh but really hard to scale, right? Like how do you price if

scale, right? Like how do you price if you're a paid media buyer, you're going to tell a creator, hey, we'll only pay you 500 bucks um because we can't risk more than $500 cuz we'll know if that ad's going to perform with $500 to

spend. But then the creator is going to

spend. But then the creator is going to come back and say, "I need 10 grand or 20 grand because that's what I get for my organic post." That model will never work. So, we've taken a different

work. So, we've taken a different approach with with our model that's um enabled a level of scale and standardization.

Yeah, I think the the partnership posts and and Tik Toks have their own version of it and and YouTube lean into this is is sort of a fascinating space where and I think you might have been the one told

me this is where you get that like how do you take the creativity of the creators and put it into the engine of the the monetization like Meta and Google and YouTube are so good at

running that that monetization piece.

Let them do that. We want to bring the creative and we want to make sure the creator actually gets paid for it.

>> Yeah.

>> A thousand%. Like at the end of the day, creators are the most creative people in the world, right? Like they know 1 second, 3 second, 5-second hook rate better than just about anyone. Even the

great creative like the creative agents or or folks that are leading creative agencies, they're now like becoming the most popular people on social, right?

Like Owen and Schwin. Um, and what's amazing about creators is that they essentially are micro creative agencies.

And uh especially with the way that Adjoba has rolled out and and what Meta is asking of its advertisers, it's we need an essentially unlimited amount of of creative variation. And that's not

like old school creative variation like oh just change the type, change the CTA, change the color. That's like an entirely different piece of content.

like how how on earth is a creative agency going to create that much content in an efficient way when an advertiser can test that very quickly and know if it's it's going to perform. Um that's

why leveraging creators can be so powerful because they can be a brand's content engine. If you look at the meta

content engine. If you look at the meta ads libraries of of brands like Grunes, um there's a bunch of them I could rattle off, but worth taking a look and they're working with with hundreds of

creators at a time and they have hundreds of these partnership ads and that's why they've been able to scale so quickly as businesses.

>> Yeah, makes sense. Um what about so like so we talked about the sort of workflow scalability aspect of this. The other

big thing that drove you know adtech broadly speaking so there's hundreds of billions of dollars is the you know addressability and the optimization of who you're targeting how you're choosing

who to work with right so um what's that aspect of it look like as you guys are trying to drive scale so yes there's okay we got to make it work that the platform is now set up for it we can push these out with standardization but

you you are not you're limited in the audience side things right that's still controlled by the the platforms how are you guys allowing a grooms to figure out who to go manage, how to manage that addressibility, are you capturing the

right audience um from them?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Our job is not to be like the paid media strategist. So, we're letting

media strategist. So, we're letting their team or or sometimes their agency own that um and uh the meta engine own it through advantage plus uh with

YouTube organic you can target based on the creators audiences but it's not the level of precision that you would expect with with traditional paid. Uh but

targeting is always going to be a challenge and yeah if you have the the best creative though you can reach obviously a super I guess targeted audience and and do so really effectively and that's the power of of

getting a lot more creative.

>> All right I got I have to use the mic uh when I ask questions. Um all right so you mentioned YouTube. You're in in beta on on meta now. Um you know creators in

many ways I I view and I think this said before I mean it's very cross channel right? It's Tik Tok, it's YouTube, it's

right? It's Tik Tok, it's YouTube, it's podcasts, it's it's all these things together. How do you think about, you

together. How do you think about, you know, over the next 3 to 5 years, um whether it's Aentio or or just more broadly, do these come together and are they managed across platform or are they

managed individually uh by each channel or platform? Yeah, I

or platform? Yeah, I >> I think I think brands want to be able to manage their spend in one holistic place, right? um that's that's the way

place, right? um that's that's the way that they uh they run a lot of their business whether it's like an ERP system or um you know a rippling or an HR system right so to to have to go from

one platform to the next to the next especially when the creators are across every platform I think presents a really interesting opportunity uh for tech to help enable advertisers to essentially

consolidate where they're spending their time and get the best insights that are tied to the performance of creative across paid organic creator tradition traditional um under under one roof.

>> Yeah.

>> Um so uh the last question here um the guy Mark Darcy was full of like the best quotes I've ever had. So we use another quote from him that the the advent of AI um is going to create sort of a Cambrian

explosion of of creativity, right? It's

this incredibly powerful tool used by creative people can can you know massively uh increase the amount of creative now that can be used for ads.

That was the context of that conversation. It also can be used for

conversation. It also can be used for everything else. I guess as you look at

everything else. I guess as you look at how AI comes into this space, um what what do you see the impact of that? Is

it does it change the number of advertisers using these channels? Did

you change the number of creators? How

how do you think that that impacts the space?

>> You're going to have a banging YouTube channel. U because it'll be so easy for

channel. U because it'll be so easy for you and everyone in this room to create incredible content and the cost of production goes to zero, right? Um,

we're already seeing that with Sora 2 and like, you know, Sor 2 could be considered AI slop today, but in 6 months, 12 months from now, it's going to be better than, you know, 99% of Hollywood studios and what they can

produce. So, um, this is I think you

produce. So, um, this is I think you said it earlier like AI generation today uh, is mediocrity at scale and you have to be an incredible creative, you have to be an incredible strategist to to to

win when there's like this proliferation of of slop. Um, but I also think there's going to be a concentration of trust towards creators because of the

engagement and the equity that that they've built with their audiences and you know people that we all follow for years or many months or or sometimes

decades like you care about that person and when your entire feed is potentially AI potentially not you're going to still go back to that person because you've built that parasocial relationship with

them and you trust them and uh therefore you trust their recommendations. So

because of that, there will also be a concentration of dollars to creators.

Um, but let's also remember that creators are going to be more empowered than ever. Like they're going to have

than ever. Like they're going to have like the best tools in the world.

They're going to be able to make the best creative in the world both for their own for their own channels and then also on behalf of advertisers. So

it's an insanely exciting time. like AI

is going to be yeah bigger than the internet realistically like the its impact and and the speed at which it's going to be moving um and how impactful it's going to be to businesses to

creatives to people looking to generate great outcomes. Um, they now have like

great outcomes. Um, they now have like literally not just a search box with some level of intelligence, but they now have the world's smartest, you know, most creative, most thoughtful sparring

partner um at their at their beck and call when whenever they they want to partner or whenever they want to build product or test product. Um, it's just like a massive paradigm shift away from

how things currently work.

>> Thank you so much for doing this.

>> Thank you guys.

>> How you doing? Um, hi. I'm Haley. Is

this thing on?

>> I think so. Yeah.

>> Okay. Um,

I Yeah, I worked in the creator economy for eight years and I work at Made by All. I've been at Made by All for three

All. I've been at Made by All for three years. We represent the top creators in

years. We represent the top creators in the creator economy, including Sydney, who created the Tik Tok viral series, the group chat. Um, and is nominated for

Tik Tok rising star of the year. Go vote

on Tik Tok.com. Um, handing it over to Sydney.

I'm Sydney. I created the group chat.

I'm nominated for rising star of the year. I was smart enough to sign with

year. I was smart enough to sign with made by all and have Haley as my manager. Um, and yeah, it's it's been

manager. Um, and yeah, it's it's been about eight months um since I started being a creator full-time and since the group chat went viral and a lot of exciting things in the works. So, I'm

just happy to be here.

>> So, Sydney, a few months ago, you were on the Today Show.

>> Yeah.

>> And now you're here. Look, look at look at what's happening for you.

>> I know. It's crazy.

Um, you probably get very tired of this, but give us the the short version of the story because I think people wonder so much what we're talking about is creators that have been doing this for a long time and have a plan and and an

ongoing ad business. Give us your origin story in a in a in a quick couple of minutes.

>> A quick couple of minutes. Um, okay. The

Spark Notes version of my life is uh I was a theater major in college. I was

actually kicked out of my theater department, which I love to bring up because I think it's such a big part of, you know, um it's so I'm already like lacking in the words. It's it's very

subjective and you you Yeah, you never know. Um so for someone, you know, my

know. Um so for someone, you know, my department to literally look at me and be like, you're just not going to make it in this industry was really ignorant on their part because you just really have no idea. Tik Tok didn't even exist

when I was in college, so nobody could have known. Um and I started working in

have known. Um and I started working in jewelry. I was working in estate jewelry

jewelry. I was working in estate jewelry like a normal 9 to 5 job in Midtown and creating on the side after work whenever I could creating videos and I had this script written for the group chat which

it it wasn't called at that point and it mostly was just um like character descriptions that were really fleshed out and I didn't post it for a long time because I was afraid that it would flop

when I posted it. So I kind of like cut that back and I had a few viral series before that. I was at about 250,000

before that. I was at about 250,000 followers and then I posted the group chat one Sunday and one week later I had 1.7 million and was on the Today Show

and in Rolling Stone magazine and had a cameo from Charlie Puth which was crazy and um everything just really really did change so fast and I did feel like I was coming into a world of creators that had

been doing it since at least co and everyone was very established and knew each other and had this direction which in some ways was really fortunate cuz I was able to get some really great advice from most people and in some ways was really scary cuz I would come into

events like this and everyone sort of knew each other and had this really vast knowledge of the business and I didn't and I had just been working in jewelry and they'd be like oh you're a writer and I'm like no

>> oh you're a no I don't I really don't know so and I'm still figuring it out but with the help of the right team I feel like I've really navigated it over the last couple months. So, what happens then? And either of you can kind of you

then? And either of you can kind of you don't that takes off. It's maybe

unexpected or you're not sure. Uh do

brands start calling right away or are you even thinking, well, I I already I don't know if I could do that again like or or do you do you start saying I got to turn this into a business immediately or what happens next?

>> I I'll pass it to you. I'll go first.

I'll pass to you. I I think for me it was um immediately I was getting a lot of calls from managers and agents and brands and I didn't know how to navigate those situations by myself. I didn't

know how to negotiate brand deals. The

first like one of the first brand deals that I ever took I really didn't know what I was doing and like later on when the budget was discussed it was like oh god like why did you do that? um

>> like it was someone said to you, "You you you caved in too fast." Or was >> they were just kind of like, "Oh, this is the money we're offering you." And I was like, "Okay." And then that wasn't that was not the correct um amount of money, I guess, for like my ratio

following, which I had no idea at the time. But um it all happened really

time. But um it all happened really fast. And my boss in jewelry, who was

fast. And my boss in jewelry, who was very very supportive, but when I hadn't been to work in two weeks and I took a Friday off to be on the Today Show, finally came to me and was like, "Don't think you can work here anymore. You're

never here." And I was like, you know, that's that's fair. this really isn't working out. So then I didn't have a job

working out. So then I didn't have a job and I did have this amazing opportunity on TikTok, but I didn't know how to turn it into revenue quite yet. And that was where my team came in. Hello. Um, so

yeah, I saw the viral group shot series and was familiar with Sydney and was so excited when she took a meeting with made by all because her type of virality

is very rare. Um, but I think and Sydney can attest to this, like the first thing I asked her was like, I'm so excited to meet you and hear what you want to do, whereas every other management company

and agency had as had come to her with like a full plan and like their own vision and never asked her what she wanted to do. Um, in terms of the brand

side, we would marry like her vision along with like a lot of brands coming to us and asking us, you know, to be on her Tik Tok and to be on her Instagram, but we had to figure out a way for her

to still produce the group chat in an organic way that her audience loves so much and to also incorporate brands in there, but not detract from engagement.

So, that was its own battle.

>> Okay. So you you've you've both heard a lot of the different points of view on how this how this process could be better or faster. You again this is very

unique to your show and your your your following and everything, but is there is there a right way for brands to approach you? Would you would it is it I

approach you? Would you would it is it I mean obviously you're a little more established. You have an agent. like is

established. You have an agent. like is

there is there is there a better way that this could happen where going forward you' get this right or is it is it always going to be unique to a show to a series to a moment in time?

>> I can start with that. Um yeah, I I heard everyone go before me and I have some opinions myself but um so brands just so you know are not approaching the

creator. You're approaching me cuz her

creator. You're approaching me cuz her email comes directly to me. Okay. So,

uh, more than likely you're talking to their manager or agent first before you ever get to Sydney. You will chat with me for a while. Um, so I'm assessing the brand deal in regards to like, does the

budget make sense for her? Does the

creative make sense for her? Is this a brand that she would even want to work with? I know her pretty well at this

with? I know her pretty well at this point. So, like nine times out of 10, I

point. So, like nine times out of 10, I can probably gauge like, is this a fit for Sydney? Or I'll call her and be

for Sydney? Or I'll call her and be like, do you like this brand? And if

she's it's >> got to be hard to say no in the beginning, right? It's got to be scary.

beginning, right? It's got to be scary.

I would think like no.

>> What? No. You No.

>> She's quick to say no.

>> See, I always say yes when there's someone.

>> I was really decisive from the beginning. Actually, before I even

beginning. Actually, before I even signed with May, I had gotten one of the even to this day one of the most like biggest budgets for a brand deal that I had been offered and I it was just not a

fit at all. I could tell that they had not really seen the group chat and they didn't really know >> like they just saw a headline and they're jumping in like I want to jump on the verity. It was sort of like, oh, look at the camera and say this like

very Truman Showes um of advertising and I was like, "Oh, that's really not kind of what my brand is." So, they they sort of knew that from the beginning, I think.

>> Yeah, we definitely got a feel for like what she liked, what she didn't like, so that we could speak with the brand and get a sense of the deal so that we're not calling her every two minutes with like, "Well, what about this?"

>> So, okay. You you work with uh lots of clients at your company, right? Do do

you is there a way to do what do you think of these ideas of trying to standardize this and trying to pump out a lot of brand recommendations for a bunch of influencers at once versus doing what you're talking about which is

like taking your time finding the right opportunity you know working together is there is there did you have to go one one way the other is there a right way to do things balance >> um I think what someone said previously

about it being a relationship and not just a tr maybe they say transaction I'm not sure but the word relationship ship is is definitely true. That's what we look for. For example, for her group

look for. For example, for her group chat, and she can speak to this too, we had a brand partner, Hilton, that worked with us across many seasons of the group chat. So, they were already very

chat. So, they were already very familiar with the series before they even approached. They were a fan of the

even approached. They were a fan of the series. They knew it backwards and

series. They knew it backwards and forwards. They knew and liked her

forwards. They knew and liked her content, and that was really apparent when they approached. Um, and then they were willing to work with her in terms of scripting. um still following FTC

of scripting. um still following FTC guidelines but also letting her be the creator and be the writer. So that was a long-term relationship and that is what we look for in terms of like more

transaction and choosing a 100 different creators. It I guess it depends what the

creators. It I guess it depends what the brand is trying to achieve. There are a lot of brands that are launching something and they just want so much traction and they're choosing a 100 different creators to get that traction.

I think that's okay if they want to spend the budget like go for it. Um, but

I think yeah, the long-term and the relationship building is definitely what we look for.

>> Yeah, I agree. I think um with the Hilton specifically and with a lot of brands like that, I appreciate when a brand will come down to the influencer level. I think a lot of problems with

level. I think a lot of problems with brands is that they sort of see themselves as like this sturdy staple in the industry and like they don't need to concern themselves sort of with social

media and that's fine but it's harder to organically integrate them into content when they are not so flexible with social media and they don't really understand it. So, I mean, Hilton

understand it. So, I mean, Hilton appeared in my comment section as did, you know, Trip Adviser, which was another brand we worked with the first season, um, that we did like a travel partner and it was because they appeared in the comments very early on. And then

there were so many of my followers commenting back to them like, "Oh, you're here in the comments. You should

fund this, you know, Costa Rica trip that's sort of being talked about, which was fictional." Why initially I said

was fictional." Why initially I said like, "There's this bachelorette in Costa Rica." It was a plot of the group

Costa Rica." It was a plot of the group chat. We did not think we were going to

chat. We did not think we were going to go there, but because Trip Adviser appeared in the comments and they were like, "Oh, we could send you to Costa Rica." Then there was a call for it. And

Rica." Then there was a call for it. And

I think I really appreciate when a brand will will come down to my level and not take themselves so seriously. And it it does make the process of writing and working with them a lot easier. I feel

like they fully understand the world that I'm living in as opposed to the traditional advertising, you know, commercials on TV and stuff. It's it's

very very different when you have a creator who's on the front lines. And if

something doesn't go well, I'm the one mostly getting the backlash, not necessarily the brand that I'm working with. So, I have to be very picky and

with. So, I have to be very picky and strategic about who I work with.

>> So, you you still find some brands are just like, I don't want to get in the muck with social media or is it is it is it just a control thing and that the the the letting go that's still a challenge?

If you don't have thoughts on that, either of you?

>> I mean, there are a lot of brands that are resistant to social media.

Literally, if you look at, you know, like the top 30 brands that have the highest budgets and make the most money, you can Google or T or look at them on Tik Tok. And a lot of them don't even

Tik Tok. And a lot of them don't even have Tik Tok accounts, which again is fine. But I do find I don't know if it's

fine. But I do find I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but I do find that the brands that don't involve themselves with social media have a harder time understanding what it is that we're doing. And if we're not on the same

doing. And if we're not on the same page, like for example, I had a brand, all of my characters since since like the first episode are colorcoded.

There's seven characters that I I I do play them all. It's very Jim Carrey of me. Um but they're all color coded. And so I had a brand be like,

coded. And so I had a brand be like, "Well, you can't wear these four colors." And I was like, "That's not a

colors." And I was like, "That's not a that's not possible." And it makes me think that you've never even seen an episode. Then it's so hard. Then it's

episode. Then it's so hard. Then it's

like every single step that we go through.

>> You're not asking to drink a competitive soda. You're just asking that like you

soda. You're just asking that like you want to wear black.

>> I just need to wear black. It really is so simple. And it makes every step of

so simple. And it makes every step of the way a lot harder when I'm like trying to explain my content, explain social media, explain the like everything along the way. And it it's not so fluid as it is with brands who

come on and they're like, "We know the group chat. We get it. We understand the

group chat. We get it. We understand the social media aspect of it, why it draws people in and we're ready to just be integrated into that."

>> I think by the time brands come to us, they've succumbed to social media because they want to work with our creators and they have a budget for it.

But I think to your point, it's like the resistance comes from and sometimes it's not their fault. So I am on the brand side as well as the creator side and I'm trying to like marry the two visions.

You know, they have like a huge legal team they need to respond to. There's

FTC. Someone said earlier like no one can be in the background. That's a huge thing. Um, but I think the more that

thing. Um, but I think the more that they can let the creator have their own vision and like Sydney said, like they're familiar with their content, like they're coming into it with prior

knowledge and like, you know, they know who they're working with, like you're paying them for a reason. Um, so that's always helpful.

Did you uh I'm curious about what you both think of the the platforms getting more involved or not involved, but did did you hear from Tik Tok like right away or do you hey come into our partnership program or not? Not not at

all.

>> No. Um I wasn't part of the creator uh rewards program on Tik Tok for many reasons, but I No, I I actually have not I don't know if we've ever heard from Tik Tok.

>> Well, they invited you to the award.

>> They did invite They nominated me for an award. I take it back. Tik Tok, we love

award. I take it back. Tik Tok, we love you so much. No, I the the the the apps and the actual platforms are great. I

but a lot of them by design are not super communicative with the audience. I

mean, like if anybody's ever been locked out of their Instagram account, you know, there's not exactly like a help hotline you can call, right? It's it you have to kind of finagle your way back in. So, by nature, that's not how it is,

in. So, by nature, that's not how it is, but I don't think it's a bad thing. I do

think it would be beneficial if someday there was a way to directly contact Tik Tok more. We do have contacts at Tik Tok

Tok more. We do have contacts at Tik Tok that we speak to, but it's such a it's such a large platform that you speak to one department in Tik Tok. That's the

one department. It doesn't apply to the whole thing. You could speak more to

whole thing. You could speak more to that.

>> Yeah, we have a very close relationship with Meta and YouTube. Tik Tok is uniquely difficult, but also love Tik Tok and please um help >> because they're or they're getting sold

maybe or >> I think there's a lot of different reasons. They're just so massive.

reasons. They're just so massive.

>> Like they're just such a huge platform.

Everyone's on Tik Tok. I think with Facebook and Instagram it's a little more spread out and Snapchat and stuff, but just everybody's on Tik Tok. I mean

Meta is huge. Like there are so many people that work at Meta, but they um there's like a creator rep for most of the large creators and they really

advocate for their creators and we have a close relationship with them. I can

get them on the phone if you get locked out of your Instagram. Um and same with YouTube. So Tik Tok is uniquely

YouTube. So Tik Tok is uniquely difficult.

>> So I like this. Um what is it good or bad that for you from your perspective that they're getting YouTube is getting maybe more involved in helping connect brands and creators?

>> Yeah.

>> Is that is that mostly a good thing or what about ad tech companies coming in and trying to do that?

>> I love YouTube. Um I will support them all day and I always tell Sydney to do more on YouTube. Post on YouTube shorts um >> every day. every day. It's in the

calendar. Um I do. I like that they're

calendar. Um I do. I like that they're getting more involved in creators. I

love that. We do a lot of work with YouTube. They see creators as being the

YouTube. They see creators as being the new Hollywood, which I completely agree with and is kind of the ethos of our company. Um there's a lot of work that

company. Um there's a lot of work that we're doing with them to to support that vision. So, what was the other question?

vision. So, what was the other question?

>> Uh or do you is it good to have third parties coming in and trying to become the brokers or the you know ad techifying this space or is that stay out of my way? We we got this.

>> That's fine. As long as they have budget, come through.

>> All right. Um both you can ask for this, but Sydney, what has been uh really surprising to you about this weird business? And what do what do people not

business? And what do what do people not understand?

>> Oh my goodness. Um I mean, I think there I think one of the things that I've come to really learn is just truly how many hoops brands and the agencies that the brands work with have to jump through. I

think at first I would get really frustrated and be like, why is this so hard? But now I understand there's so

hard? But now I understand there's so much legal. There's so much there's so

much legal. There's so much there's so many higherups in different >> department is probably even harder.

>> Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's

just so there's so many departments that they have to go through in order to make decisions and get things approved. And I

think that was the most surprising thing. I thought brands were going to be

thing. I thought brands were going to be sort of the biggest hurdle. But having

the right team is really the biggest thing who will advocate for you and understand that cuz there are unfortunately there are management companies and agencies who really do just want to make the most money off you that they can. And you have to find ones who really believe in you and see the

longevity of it if they're going to fight for you and, you know, not just >> try to make the most money off of you that they can.

>> Ally, last word. What do What do e What do these people in this room not understand maybe that we need to help them with?

>> What do they not understand? Wow. I

don't know what they understand, but um the creator economy is a really I mean it it's such an exciting space. I'm so

blessed that I got into this space 8 years ago when it was like in infancy but we have a long way to go which is also really exciting. So I think all the conversations around like creators

working better with brands um I love to be involved in those because I am the middleman >> for the creator >> make your life a lot better measurement

smoother processes.

There are so many cooks in the kitchen when it comes to brands working with creators, not just through me, but like if they work with an agency or they work like we're talking to so many people and

not brand direct a lot of the time, yeah, the email chains are out of control. I think if the brand can keep

control. I think if the brand can keep like their deals in house, sometimes that's really helpful so that you're not speaking through an agency who also

doesn't know. Um,

doesn't know. Um, yeah. And I think I mean it's really

yeah. And I think I mean it's really hard to like FTC has gotten even crazier, right? So like the the legal

crazier, right? So like the the legal process and what they need to add to the caption and the disclosure I think is is getting even crazier, but the more that we can let it be entertainment like

someone said earlier and not just a straight advertisement, um the better it'll be.

>> All right. Thank you so much, Elliot and and Sydney. Thank you guys for coming

and Sydney. Thank you guys for coming out here and thank you everyone for spending so much time tonight. It's a

terrific event. I appreciate you. You

have lots of things to do. So, I

appreciate you taking time in your lives and have a great night.

>> Thank you.

>> Yeti.

>> Oh, please take a Yeti on the way out.

And thank you Review Planner for all your support and help. Awesome night and happy holidays, I guess.

>> Thanks again to my partners at View Planner and all the folks that attended my recent Next to Media event in New York. We have lots more to bring you.

York. We have lots more to bring you.

So, please hit that subscribe button and we'll see you next time for more on what's next in media. Thanks for

listening.