Inside IM8's $0 to $120M ARR Playbook (Danny Yeung)

But let's say this year I just want to build a 100 million annual business.

Very easy. I can probably do that in my sleep right?

I think it's official that you're the fastest growing supplement brand.

This type of growth typically takes about, you know, 4 to 5 years to hit about 100 million ARR. Our goal

originally was like 20 to 25 million USD and we ended December last month um at, you know, 10 million uh monthly revenue, right? which puts us at already 120

right? which puts us at already 120 million AR run rate after 12 months.

Danny Young is the CEO and founder of Prenetics, the company behind IM8, a supplement brand that has honestly taken the DDC market by storm, going from 0 to 120 million AR in its first year.

I think one of the key metrics that we looked at early on was the period of time it takes for us to recoup that customer [music] acquisition cost because that then allows us to either

dial back on scaling or [music] scale faster and etc. So, we specifically priced our product higher on Amazon than our [music] own website. We really

wanted to own that customer journey. We

felt that was really, really important.

If there's an issue with shipping or whatever, you're limited to what you can actually control.

All right, Danny, thank you for being here.

Yeah, thank you for having me.

So, Danny Young is the CEO and founder of Prrenetics, the company behind IM8, a supplement brand that has honestly taken the DDC market by storm, going from 0 to

120 million AR in its first year. Uh,

IM8 is known for its daily powder, which is sold in subscription, and also for its powerhouse celebrity endorsements with David Beckham and Ariana Sablanca.

Danny, thank you for being here. Yeah,

thank you for having me.

So, I want to start just we'll get into IMATE um very detailed, but I do want to start with high level product idea inception.

How did you get here? What was that first conversation with David Beckham Mike?

Yeah. So, you know, to be fair, this conversation happened in the summer of 23. Uh, of course, as you mentioned,

23. Uh, of course, as you mentioned, yeah, I I run a public company called Prenetics. We're listed on the NASDAQ.

Prenetics. We're listed on the NASDAQ.

Right at that time wise, you know, we were looking for a new growth engine.

Yeah, because previously we did really well during co we had pivoted to doing like 800 million revenue over course of three year period of time but of course that went away postcoid and just through

my business network I had a very good friend you Michelle Laminer uh he works closely and is a friend of Davids and then he actually we're here in Hong Kong and [snorts] Michelle we I was having dinner with Michelle he's like hey you

know what are you doing in the coming weeks he's like hey he's going to you fly over to London to meet with David Beckham he asked me you know do I want to join him right literally norally like very casual. Can't say no to that.

very casual. Can't say no to that.

Yeah. I was like, you know, I'm like, are you sure I can go? Right. Normally,

you're like, hey, you're not sure if he's joking or kidding or not, right?

Because it's like, yeah, Dave is not supposed to meet with anyone. Correct.

Amazing.

Um, and I was like, yeah, if if that's okay, yeah, happy to go, right? Um, so

two weeks later, I was in London, we met, we had a great conversation, and I think he was just very intrigued uh about my background. again I had the e-commerce consumer background as well

as the last 10 years of having a life sciences background and that was very important because for David you know he we never at one moment talked about you

know financial monetary or anything like that I think his main question was like yeah if we did something together you know can we make it the best and can we

put real science in this and that was kind of his key things you because for him for the last 30 years you Now many big brands, individuals, very influential people have reached out to

him saying, you know, Dave, let's go into this category, right? Since he was 20 years old, right? So he's like 50 now. Um, and he's rejected all those

now. Um, and he's rejected all those times and he's even told me he's like, "Hey, you know, Danny, if we did something that why should I work with you?" And I gave him my background and

you?" And I gave him my background and certainly I also told him, you know, Dave, if we did this, this brand has to survive even beyond you. And that really

resonated with him too because a lot of people or brands that have went approached him before they were like hey you know this brand is all going to be about you right and he actually doesn't like that.

Yeah right because it's like you know too much on him and he also believes that it won't survive right if it's just too focused on that.

Was it always daily powders? Did you

guys brainstorm other ideas like how did you get to the final product? I I think again we wanted to number one solve problem right because I ultimately what was the problem that we wanted to solve

and even for you know David you know we were talking about you know his daily supplement regime over the years and even his current regime and he had a big yeah

uh he had a big yeah I would say he had a big issue in terms of consistently taking his supplements because he had like a stack of 12 13 14 supplements on a daily basis. Yeah. Exactly. Right. And

then especially when you're traveling then becomes [snorts] very very difficult to maintain that routine.

Yeah. Him and Victoria both right. And

then so we started looking at that again. There must be a better way.

again. There must be a better way.

So an all-in-one solution was kind of always the talking point.

Yeah. That was kind of like the initial talking point. Again you know there we

talking point. Again you know there we knew there was a market demand already given AG1 was already kind of like you know the big gorilla in the house.

Right. Is it safe to say it was kind of gut based or did you guys do a lot of research like you know a lot of ecom brands they do smoke testing they do tests online or you guys kind of just had a gut feeling what was that process like

you know I think this speaks to more about my own beliefs right so I think um you my past entre I think you have to have a strong belief

and that you know your idea you based upon your own research right I mean your your gut feeling is correct um and To be fair, we did not do any market research

in terms of this product. We just kind of say, you know what, if we did this in a way, we knew we needed to create something unique, something different.

Uh because it could have been, you know, very easy for us just to create another greens powder which we knew the market already accepted, right? Well, we went into okay, you know, I don't want to just be another greens powder, right?

So, I was like, right, how do we do that? Uh so that's where you can see

that? Uh so that's where you can see everything about the product, the brand, the name, the colors was also very unique. Uh because at the end of the

unique. Uh because at the end of the day, we're not just selling a product, but we're selling a lifestyle and a community and a commitment to living healthier.

So you get the idea, you align with David Beckham.

Super exciting.

Let's get into supply chain. Like what

comes next? How did you go about building a supply chain, picking countries ingredients partners all that? So I would say even before the

that? So I would say even before the supply chain piece right in terms of of course you know took yeah it wasn't an easy conversation to get David on board because it was multiple conversations with him and his team that do lots of

vetting I'm sure you know they checked out my whole background my whole team's background you know because again you know when you're working with someone that is you know so iconic uh everything has to be very clean of course

uh and a good thing that you also we had we were already a publicly listed company so our financials everything is public in the public domain right so there was a lot of that aspect in but I

think once we confirm hey let's do this together you know that took about you know a good three to four months uh lots of back and forth dial of course um and

then we're like hey how do we actually recruit the best scient advisory team members on board right because that was very critical right because hey because proper scientists

yeah proper scientists and this is where again we wanted to have different experts in different categories stories.

Yeah. Because I think some people's like there's there's just no way one [snorts] doctor of scientist there like specialized in aridic, right? Um so we were able very fortunate to get you know

Dr. Dawn uh from Mayo Clinic you know Suzanne which is a director of microbiome from Cedar Sai uh you know even a former chief scientist of NASA James Green came on board. So we brought

along about you know eight scientific advisory board members which has specialties in each of their own fields and that was very important because that's how I got all these guys on board

you know to create the formulation as known as daily ultimate essentials right because so formulation first before you even get to supply chain you're you're kind of testing what's the perfect blend of what's the perfect ingredient set what's

the perfect ingredient set what are clinical dosages how much you think you should have uh etc etc right and And and again that was a lot of back and forth but to be fair are we talking like again since the

launch with David Beckmore is it plus one year or 6 months um in terms of like like getting to the final set of ingredients uh getting his final set of ingredients

right so it was at least you know about 6 months period of time right okay fast yeah and but the key thing is that we had so many the experts yeah right so they already had collectively like you

know 100 plus years of experience right yeah So yeah, we're not starting from scratch. Yeah. And then and then the

scratch. Yeah. And then and then the great thing about this too is that yeah, a lot of experts you see if you know front and center on our website. This is

the first time they've ever worked with a supplement brand, right? And the

reason for that is that you from day one we was like, hey, you know, is about transparency. We really hone in on the

transparency. We really hone in on the science piece. Again, the background for

science piece. Again, the background for my last 10 years at Prenetics because to be fair prinetics wise when we're doing like diagnostic testing, PCR testing,

genetic testing, the science and rigorous aspects that we had uh is significantly higher when you compared to the supplement industry, right? So,

we wanted to have a very high bar when it came to the science and translating that to the consumer. It's almost easier to kind of back your way into supplements after you had established.

Yeah. Exactly. Right. Because many

people actually they told me, "Hey, Danny, what I was like even explaining, you know, we want to get into the supplement space." Everyone's like,

supplement space." Everyone's like, "Dan, don't get into the supplement space.

It's too competitive. There's no guard rails. There's it's now unregulated.

rails. There's it's now unregulated.

There's a lot of bad apples, etc." But when I hear that, they're me and saying, "You know what? That means there's actually a barrier to entry if we create sciencebacked third party

testing clinical trial product. So okay

so you get your scientific board you get your ingredients the formulations ready to go talk supply chain I mean yeah how do you establish that where are you making the product how did you go about that process

yeah so of course I mean going that process again you just have to talk to lots of different manufacturers and the great I mean there's like tons thousands of contract manufacturers when you think about the supplement space right but of

course very few are good in what they do and I think you just have to do go through a vetting process. Yeah. Uh and

you know, so the manufacturer we chose is based in New Jersey. In the US, [snorts] uh they had a 30-year track record. And

then again, things that we looked at, I mean, it wasn't Yeah. the cheapest

manufacturer because at the end of the day, you also don't want the cheapest, right? You want someone that actually

right? You want someone that actually has a track record. They've been around business, you know. 30 years and opportunity for us to Hey, we want and we set out like, you know, can this

factory also scale with us? Yeah. Do

they have the right expertise? do they

have the right insights? U and certainly we went into it with someone that we can trust for the long term and we haven't changed uh yeah our manufacturer from and you think that supplier could ride with you all the way up until you keep

scaling.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean of course you know just from a company perspective you know you also want to be ensure that you have backup just in case something happens right so we've also added a new supplier

last year or new manufacturer last year also in the US uh but we're still mainly going with you yeah our current one how important to you was the made in America tag on the product I mean you

could have made it in the UK obviously David's from the UK you could have made it in many places obviously the biggest consumer market of course the US but how important was that to you.

Um that was very important to us, right?

Um again, there's a many different reasons. Again, if we made it in China

reasons. Again, if we made it in China or wherever, it would have been significantly less expensive. Uh yeah,

but again, we weren't going for, you know, that market, right? We're going

for you high-end premium market. I think

the US piece was very important. uh

other aspect was because we wanted to get this uh you know third party tested and also uh by Euroins as well as NSF certified for sport. So what [snorts]

that means is that you know NSF actually has to go to the manufacturer and they're not going to go to China, right?

They're not going to go to UK etc. And NSF is the organization that vets uh the drug testing you know for the professional athletes in NBA, MLB etc

etc. So that if you're a professional athlete, you know, it's free from 280 band contaminants tested for heavy metals. And we publish these reports

metals. And we publish these reports right on our website from day one and people can download it, right? Which is

really rare when I again this is something that's of course standard when we're doing diagnostic testing.

Everything has you have to have the backup.

You really you really it's very holistic everything from the certifications to the scientific board. It's clear it's incredibly professionally done.

There's no doubt about So that was, you know, that was the goal.

That was the goal, right? And it's much more expensive in the US. Uh, again,

but, you know, we wanted to, this is a premium product for individuals that really want the best.

Yeah. What about pricing strategy? You

know, in in supplements, there's such a big variety. Uh, there's such a big

big variety. Uh, there's such a big range. M um is pricing strategy for you

range. M um is pricing strategy for you really just a mechanism of like cogs times a multiple or is it based on brand positioning you know positioning against competitors or is it just you know

obviously I made it's a premium price how did you think about the price positioning yeah I mean great question right I think it's a price position wise again we set again we set out to create a premium product right because again we're

working with you know David Beckham right he's like hey he wants to make sure this is the best product in the market So even from a COGS perspective, I would believe, you know, we're

definitely by far the most expensive if you think about COGS, right? Um so and then naturally, of course, then you know, that would translate into the price that we sell to consumers, right?

Um [snorts] because if you but if you look at everything that you're actually able to get into IM8, so if you look at the price point, hey, you know, people on the surface, they'll say, you know what, I'm paying you 90 bucks USD you

for 30 days supply of supplements, right? But if you actually look into the

right? But if you actually look into the details in terms of what you're getting, you get, you know, all of your multivitamins, ADZ, your adaptogens, yeah, your probiotics, prebiotics,

postbiotics, you get CoQ10, 100 milligrams, 1,000 milligrams or MSM. I

mean, just CoQ10 alone is 30 bucks a month.

So, you're not worried about other, you know, supplements or daily powders that are lower, more entry level because for you, you're just so convicted about the value and the quality that you're selling.

Yeah. Value and quality. And ultimately,

you know, people will pay certain prices or a premium price as long as they feel they're getting their values worth.

Okay?

Right. And we feel that it's resonated with our audience and consumers is that you know some individuals they take it you know they feel yeah very very good after two days, 3 days, one week, two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, right?

And then then that [snorts] makes them Yeah. sticky and continue on with their

Yeah. sticky and continue on with their subscription.

Yeah. So, what was the exact launch month?

Uh, December 2024.

So, December 2024 and now you're at, if I'm not mistaken, 120 million.

Yeah. I mean, to be fair, I mean, we launched December 24. Um, our in our first month revenue was, you know,

581,000 USD, right? Um, we had our goal set up for 25 and our goal originally was like 20 to 25 million USD which was still decent for the first year in a in

a competitive market.

Um, and yeah, just kind of, you know, once we started uh rolling out it, you know, the growth continue on month-to-month basis and we ended December last month um at, you know, 10

million uh monthly revenue, right? which

puts us at already 120 million AR run rate after 12 months.

Okay. So 12 months in, you're growing insanely quick.

I think it's official that you're the fastest growing supplement brand.

Yeah. On record. Yeah. On record. I mean

there just there may have been some private public etc that didn't but at least from what we've seen and when we talk to of course we're a public company as well right that industry analysts

research coverage etc. they haven't seen this type of growth in the consumer supplement space cuz this type of growth typically takes about you know four to

five years to hit about 100 million ARR.

I want to get into marketing channel distribution. Um how

do you how do you guys look at that? I

mean obviously you can buy it on IM8's website but there's so many other channels whether it be Amazon marketplace retail.

How have you guys made a strategy around distribution?

Um, distribution from day one, we really wanted to own that customer journey. We

felt that was really, really important um to us, especially as a premium brand, right? Because once you, you know, host

right? Because once you, you know, host it on other people's websites, etc., etc., if there's an issue with shipping or whatever, yeah, you're limited to

what you can actually control, right? So

by us having you right now for example you 98% of all of our transactions are conducted on imatealth.com. Yeah. And

even for Amazon you know to be fair we don't really focus that on it and we specifically price our product higher on Amazon. Yeah. Than our own website.

Amazon. Yeah. Than our own website.

So the 2% is Amazon.

Yes. Correct. But you can see it on Amazon but at the end of the day we actually want people to transact on our own website. So that's why we price it

own website. So that's why we price it higher. I'm surprised that it's only 2%

higher. I'm surprised that it's only 2% because a lot of I what I see is people go to Amazon and they'll pay even a small premium because it's the Amazon it's yeah the prime shipping prime shipping the return policy it's

totally protected if you're the consumer so it's honestly quite impressive 98%.

Do you have plans to go I mean at at a certain point in the life cycle to go into other channels?

Um not immediately. Yeah. Uh because

again I want to ensure and this is this is still a very new brand right. We're

13 months in.

Yeah. It feels like it's been in the market for ever but it's so new.

It's so new. Uh and we just want to maintain that customer relationship and providing value. Um and again we've had

providing value. Um and again we've had actually you know some very very big household name retailers in the US reach out to us and like hey you know can we

get you guys in and we've actually been in a very fortunate position that you know we've actually rejected them.

Okay.

Um because I want to maintain this customer journey and that we own that customer experience. And then one key

customer experience. And then one key thing about distribution is that, you know, we're truly global. And I that's also set us apart from day one is that from day one, again, my my team

probably, you know, called me like really crazy, but we set out to ship to 31 countries.

I was going to ask you about that.

I think we kind of skipped international and talking about supply chain, but also obviously regulation and supplements.

FDA comes to mind in the US, but there's so many individual countries that you need to be aware of as far as what you can sell and call it a supplement. Yes.

How did you tackle that?

Yeah.

And so quickly.

Yeah. I mean, we did it from day one, right? Um and that a basically again we

right? Um and that a basically again we we knew this is like we knew the product was good, right? Correct. And again

because you know Dave has taken it, a lot of people have already taken it myself is like everyone feels amazing.

So we wanted to actually reach as many consumers as possible and again the part of the formulation process also ensuring that you know this product can you know work in a major significant majority of

the world right so because again there's certain uh countries etc that have restrictions on the levels of certain ingredients and then so we've really formulated that with in mind that we would you know ship to a lot of

countries.

Yeah. Is that is that just a subset of the supplier that they've already sort of certified in these countries and they know um regulation or is that something you got to go country by country and

invest to get individual um sort of like certificates?

Yeah, I think it's a combination. You

know, some of the I mean the manufacturers of course they'll have some certain experience and then a lot of it is that you just have to you look into it right yourself.

Yeah. Okay. Um All right. So, we were talking about distribution eventually.

Could you say at some point you could see IMA being in retail channels?

Yeah, at one point. Yeah, because at at one point, but I think we're no rush.

Yeah, no rush, right? Because we're

still seeing great metrics, you know, economics online, etc. Why? And then

again, I think even though there's so much there's a lot of demand, I would see from retailers reaching out to us, but you always want to be like the hot girl in the room, right? Yeah. Right.

Totally. You got to play cool.

Yeah. You got to play cool. So I think we're we're fort we're in very fortunate position uh to be able to yeah do this and again there's so much opportunity still that we see with the metrics that

we're seeing online uh that you know we're probably yeah 3 years away from really making um push into retail.

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appreciate it. And back to the show. So,

you brought up metrics and and this is something I really have been excited to talk to you about, especially in the supplement business. It really is a

supplement business. It really is a metrics game.

So, just let's talk growth marketing in general. Um, one of the most

general. Um, one of the most one of the things I think you do best with IMATE and um it's it's not the norm. It's actually rare

norm. It's actually rare when you scale typically in in DTOC with pumping paid ads. you lose a lot of brand value. You

ads. you lose a lot of brand value. You

dilute your brand and the quality of your ads and and sort of the messaging.

But you guys have really found a way, it seems like, to maintain that quality scientific like level brand while still pumping ads, you know, in

Facebook and in all these different distribution channels.

Is there a secret sauce? Like I, you know, how do you guys look at that?

Yeah. Um, great question. I think you're spot on, right? Because I think this goes also, you know, from the selection of ambassadors that we have.

Yeah.

Right. Because any

partnerships is a big strategy I can tell.

Yeah. Partnerships, our ambassadors, our scientific advisory board, doctors, nutritionalists, and again that's saying that's why you know because you won't see like random people like UGC videos that you don't know who these guys are,

right? Then that's where it dilutes the

right? Then that's where it dilutes the brand. So I think we've been very

brand. So I think we've been very specific in terms of okay having really credible individuals that genuinely take the product on a daily basis, right?

That creates a lot of this brand value.

I'm sure you've created at at this point a flywheel where these people are now seeking you out. Maybe in the beginning you were seeking them out but now they must be knocking on you to wanting to be ambassadors.

Yes happen immediately. Um no I mean I think I think once you with everything right any business or etc once you have success there's a lot of people they want to come through the door and etc. Right. So

same thing here is that you know you know to be fair having that association with David Beckham definitely helped early on.

Yeah.

Right. Because then a lot of times you know it you know if David's working as again he's not just an ambassador right he's a co-founder of the brand. So that already

helps very significantly you know to break through a lot of barriers or trust and credibility aspects and then again I think the other pivotal moment last year from that perspective was the addition of Arena Sabalinka.

Yeah.

Uh again you know world number one tennis player right and the great thing about athletes and having them as ambassadors especially for you nutrition and health is that

yeah these guys these they have so many options. every single brand is knocking

options. every single brand is knocking them knocking on their door to get them to endorse something, right? Because

they're always on TV. You now Australian Open with Subway Link. The crazy thing about this story was this speaks to the product is that it was fully organic in which [snorts] you share the stories

that um Jason Stacy Arena's nutrition coach um they were seeking out a new supplement um because their supplement regime which you know he wasn't they

weren't very happy with their current one um and it was a green one right and then uh you know Jason I think was early

last year he started taking it u and he was like felt nosily better uh and then he's like hey to arena hey why don't you try this uh she tried it for 3 months

and I'm sure you know at that level of number one tennis player and they're constantly getting drug tested etc and they're monitoring every change in the diet how she's feeling in terms of

energy level recovery they're marking all of this data down so after 3 months yeah she noticeably felt much better energy and her recovery speed was much

greater. And then she then had her team,

greater. And then she then had her team, you know, Andre the manager is like, "Yeah, Andre, get in touch with these guys. I want to partner with them."

guys. I want to partner with them."

So it was 100% organic. They they

reached out to you.

Yeah. They got an email, they reached out, so I was like, you know, it was like very amazing. Uh

so that was like one of the best emails I got last year, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm sure.

So, you know, I think one of the you spoke about this, but the competition in supplements. I was watching a YouTube

supplements. I was watching a YouTube video the other day of rise superfoods and everyday dose instant hydration. A

lot of the like darling DTOC supplement brands a little bit lower entry point but they were talking about how these guys are scaling at, you know.12 return

on ad spend. They're effectively taking huge losses up front just to get you on the subscription and they they really 0.1.2 that's very low.

That was my exact reaction.

Correct. Yeah.

Um but it's because obviously Facebook's an auction, right? like the the the the biggest, you know, the biggest payer wins at a certain point, right? And so

these supplement brands all across the internet are competing by just floating their balance sheet, losing money, obviously betting that they'll make it back.

Mhm.

6 months later. I think the a huge part of the supplement game is, you know, your metrics.

What are you willing to lose on your first purchase or are you first purchase break even?

after how many months are you comfortable breaking even and then so forth what's the turn?

I would love to hear your POV on this obviously whatever you're willing to share and and whatever is not proprietary in that sense but it it really is the sort of like the devil in the details with subscription

DTOC. Yeah, 100%. And again, you just

DTOC. Yeah, 100%. And again, you just because, you know, we're a public listed company. I'll just share what we've

company. I'll just share what we've already shared publicly. Yeah. Which is,

you know, quite a lot already, right? U

Yeah. So, great point. Yeah. So, I think one of the key metrics that we looked at early on was how much I mean how the long the period of time it takes for us to recoup that customer acquisition

cost, right? Because that then allows us

cost, right? Because that then allows us to either dial back on scaling or scale faster and etc. So I think you know before October our payback period you

know for you know full year of 25 was approximately like 3.9 months um which is I think if you think about DDTC is a very good metric right so that basically whatever we spend on customer

acquisition cost we get that back in 3.9 months right um and after October you know since the introduction then we launched our longevity product um as

well as last month we introduced a 90-day subscription subscription.

[snorts] Now our payback period is under 3 months. Yeah. Which is huge. Really,

3 months. Yeah. Which is huge. Really,

really impactful from both a cash flow perspective as well as you know from a retention perspective. Right. Because

retention perspective. Right. Because

again we were we were thinking that you [snorts] know maybe 25% of people will choose the three-month option because again this it's not like 20

bucks, right? So just give so we had our

bucks, right? So just give so we had our onetime purchase $112. One month is 89.

uh 3 month is 235 but which equals to 78 on monthly basis. So we have more than 50% of individuals up for the not three days I mean three months.

So you're getting cash up front basically.

We're getting cash up front and everyone wins right. The consumer

wins right. The consumer you ship three at up front at a time or you Yes. We ship three at a time. Yeah.

Yes. We ship three at a time. Yeah.

Yeah. Which then helps with logistics as well, right? The consumers they get more

well, right? The consumers they get more product. They can share it with their

product. They can share it with their friends and family. Yeah.

Right.

Amazing. So right now you look at the metrics and you are happy. I mean what what what are your Yeah, we're happy we're happy with the metrics and that actually because again with our 3-month payback period this

means like we can actually even go more aggressive if we wanted to which right now we're doing a lot of testing. So

that means we can go to like 3 to 6 months. Our average order value is over

months. Our average order value is over $200 today.

But if you buy the if you buy the one pack on subscription then you're on the subscription right?

Monthly subscription. Correct. If you're

on the 3mon upfront, are you getting another 3 months?

Yes.

Okay. So, it's three at a time. It's not

three at a time.

Okay. Right. Yeah.

And have you identified a difference in LTV return based on where you like if you're entering on a onepack versus a three-pack?

Um I don't have that data to be able to quantify that yet because basically we just we just introduced 90 days in this early December.

Yeah.

Right. But in dairy, yeah, your retention should be higher on the three month compared to the one month just because Yeah. people have a longer time

because Yeah. people have a longer time to test out their product and use it on a routine basis, right? So, if you're taking something for for on a daily basis for 90 days straight, that becomes

part of your daily habits and at the same time you'll feel the difference in terms of energy, gut, sleep quality.

Yeah. As well as cognitive abilities.

I'm so curious because again I'm referencing a podcast by these other DTOC sub uh supplement darlings but um they were talking about how once you get someone on subscription don't say anything

like the less you email the better the less you put your name in their in your inbox the better cuz they're not remembering to unsubscribe how do you guys as far as like retention

nurturing upsells I mean is it a fluid process you feel like you've nailed it how do you guys look at all that no I definitely don't think we've nailed it. Yeah. Because I think especially in

it. Yeah. Because I think especially in this industry, I mean, especially with AI, there's so many different changes on a daily weekly basis, right? So, I think we're consistently trying to optimize and do better. Yeah. Because I think you

certainly haven't made all the right decisions. A lot of mistakes we've made

decisions. A lot of mistakes we've made in the past year. Uh yeah, but at the end of the day, again, you have to constantly learn what the new tools are.

Um and and going back to Sorry, what for your question? Yeah,

your question? Yeah, just talking about nurturing.

Oh, nurturing. Yeah. So we definitely I mean I I think for the brand that we're sending out as a premium brand that's you know very transparent and we want to provide that great customer experience

we definitely don't take that approach of not emailing them right uh in in fact we want to make it as easy as possible for them to cancel pause or their

subscription with their with their subscription portal right what I love about what you guys have done is you've you've basically there's there's two pathways in DC it's super authentic, completely 100% legit,

which is the path you've taken.

Investing in brand, investing in quality, scientific advisory, versus there's this whole huge subset of the market that's kind of just using black or gray hat tactics, however you want to

coin it. And you they're still winning

coin it. And you they're still winning as far as revenue growth, but ultimately customer satisfaction, I have to imagine, is not nearly

as high, but it's it's sort of like the easy choice. It's the choice that most

easy choice. It's the choice that most especially younger entrepreneurs, maybe first time or second time founders, they're going down, but you had the experience and the wisdom to say, "Hey, no, we're going for the best of the best

from the get- go. We're going to invest into that." Is that just like your

into that." Is that just like your natural strategy in general? And I I think yeah even from my own experience with again I again a lot of the a lot of

the my dog process also I had a lot of experience uh with consumer with my time at Groupon after they acquired my company in 2010 2014 right so we're able to scale that to the largest e-commerce

company in the region at the time so I [snorts] already had a lot of you know learnings and and experience in that aspect right and at the end of the day you know I think supplements industry there's a lot of younger founders and

etc they're really just looking for a quick exit right there. And to be fair, there's

right there. And to be fair, there's nothing wrong with that, right? Because

everyone has to kind of, you know, have their experience, make their way, right? Uh yeah. But I think for us, yeah, again, working with David, working with Verina. Yeah. We're not, no

one is looking for a quick exit. We're

thinking about this from a 5, 10, 15, 20 year horizon. And reputational risk is

year horizon. And reputational risk is very, very important. And so we want to make sure that everything that we do we do at a very very high bar.

Yeah. So I mean it seems like you guys have a you know obvious obviously your celebrity and partnerships both macro and micro really dialed in. Seems like

you've got your growth marketing KPIs and metrics really dialed in as far as break even and you know turn and LTV.

Where else um if at all you know in marketing are you investing? Are you

looking at Tik Tok? Are you looking at PR? Are you looking at like what other

PR? Are you looking at like what other sort of like subsects or other channels?

Yeah. So, I think other aspect that we're also investing is actually the community side of things, right? So,

when I mean community again going back to you know what I mentioned earlier is like I always thinking about even when I when we think about partnerships or whatever even my own personal uh styles I almost thinking how can I bring more

value to the customer.

Yeah. Yeah, I noticed, you know, a events at the Australian Open. You you

guys put on production, right? You get

people together.

Yeah, we get people together. I mean,

again, uh I just came back from Melbourne from the Australian Open. You

know, right before the open, you know, arena came, we had about 100, you know, individuals, influencers, media, uh you know, friends of the brand that attended because I think this is also very important because they see everything

online. Yeah. But there's no face to

online. Yeah. But there's no face to that product, right? So, you every few months we'll do an event. Uh we've done it around the world already and you got New York, Miami, uh you know, London,

Melbourne, you know, we're going to do one in Montana next week, right, in the US. And that's ultimately about

US. And that's ultimately about providing value and a local presence. At

the same time, about the value piece, you just I mentioned in terms of the 90-day subscription, one [snorts] thing that we've also added to the 90-day subscription is access to our scientific

advisory board.

Very cool. um which then you not normally have access to that otherwise you would you for example what we did is [snorts] that hey we have you know six members from our scientific and performance board um these are the likes

of Dr. Don, you Bobby Rich, which is you David Beckham's trainer, Tavi Castro, he's a amazing free diver. And then on a quarterly basis, we're provide free

access to live Q&A and Zoom courses with these individuals, which normally you're not going to get access to, right? It's like, hey, you want to

right? It's like, hey, you want to understand, you know, from Don, she's been at your nail clinic for the last 30 years as a oncologist. What are some of the secrets that you have seen that helps with longevity?

Right. Yeah. uh or you know Bobby Rich again it's like you know what you how how do you train Dave and Victoria every day? Right.

day? Right.

So you're getting you I have to imagine like hundreds or you know some amount of people on a Zoom call and they're able to just Q&A with Yes. Correct.

Yes. Correct.

Super cool.

And it's free, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's

free and we again it's it's a a lot of work behind the scenes to make it all work make it all happen.

Tons of value.

Yeah. But tons of value, right? Because

again you're not just buying that product. It's bound this community, this

product. It's bound this community, this lifestyle. And at the end of the day,

lifestyle. And at the end of the day, it's about, you know, helping that consumer uh with not just nutrition, but this lifestyle of being healthy.

Shifting gears a bit, we spoke about, so we spoke about the store, we spoke about product development, supply chain, marketing.

Want to get into operations a little bit. I'm just curious for you. Is

bit. I'm just curious for you. Is

operations sort of like a a check the box just make it the best it can be or is it an area where you look for an equal amount of innovation in in your in

your backend in the way you fulfill um I think it was like Steven Bartlett who said this but there's there's old problems and there's new problems. Yeah.

How do you look at operations?

Yeah. Operations again um you know operations is a big part of what we do because again especially our growth rate right is like you know a lot of stuff can be broken you to be fair in the last

you know I would say 18 months yeah we've had you know multiple uh 3PLO's right correct we even operated and bought our own 3PL in the beginning and

to be fair huh you bought your own 3PL yeah we bought our own 3PLO before we launched before you launched yeah before we launched IM8 um Europa um in North Carolina and you that was done

to ensure again early on that hey we can control that experience. Uh but you know the reality was that facility and the operations we outgrew it too fast.

That's a whole other business.

Yeah. Exactly. That's a whole other business. Right. So to be fair we

business. Right. So to be fair we probably shouldn't have done that.

Yeah.

Right. Um and [snorts] Wow. You were that confident

Wow. You were that confident pre-launch that you physically went and bought a 3PL because you knew that it was going to be successful.

Yeah. I mean again we we knew we had a great product right and then we had great product and then again we knew had we had you know the the celebrity factor the science piece yeah we had capital as

well uh but we recently sold off that you had the uh like few weeks ago we just announced because our operations again we would we would have needed to invest so much more into

that infrastructure and would have taken time away from on a daily basis of what IMA and so we just basically partner partnered with an existing 3PL that can that's already very big that can really

scale with us, right?

Yeah.

Is your is your fulfillment all out of the US or have you broken it out?

We've broken it out, right? And again,

that's a yeah, we had a lot of learning aspects there as well. So, we've broken it out as well.

Shipping speed, cost, shipping speed. Yeah. So, early on there

shipping speed. Yeah. So, early on there was a lot of Yeah. some issues with shipping speed, you know, delays, customs, etc. So, it was all in process.

Uh so we now have US, Europe and Asia.

Okay. And are those all have you moved manufacturing regionally or are they all coming from the US?

Oh, they all come from the US.

Okay. So you ship from the US to your 3PL in Asia and you fulfill.

Correct.

Okay. I mean that's a a huge endeavor. I

mean a lot of people would have said hey no let's find a supplier in Asia. Let's

find a supplier in Europe.

Yeah. And because we want to ensure the quality of the product, right? Yeah. So

if you have Yeah. multiple factories,

etc., etc. Yeah. you don't you're not going to be able to control that and that's a greater risk than you know saving some money here right how do you look at hiring

I mean again it it's so clear you're you think big you throw resources at big problems you innovate I is your hiring philosophy the same which is like get

ahead of it hire constantly in big numbers or are you a little bit leaner a little bit more conservative in that approach like you know I've seen companies get too big too fast Yeah, the culture dilutes.

How do you approach that?

Yeah, I mean I think you need different people at different times of the organization, right? Um I think this is,

organization, right? Um I think this is, you know, the same philosophy I've had in all of my entrepreneurial experiences, right? Again, I think uh

experiences, right? Again, I think uh especially nowadays with advancement of AI and I fully agree. I'd rather have a much smaller team than a bigger team. I

think maybe you know five six seven eight years ago was like cool to say oh you know what I have 100 100 people 200 people 300 people but now the key thing is they have revenue per employee right yes

if you can do 200 million with 20 people that's a very roaming thing I've talked to him at length about that yeah right so that's kind of how I approach it now yeah in terms of hiring is that hey you basically you know you

have to really fight for any headcount because a lot of times when you have too many people [snorts] becomes blockers and I'm constantly, you know, pushing team or telling the team,

hey, you know, cut out people. Don't go

direct to the source. If you can do everything by yourself, no need to get other people involved, right? Because

that saves so much back and forth and time and meetings as well.

Yeah. And I'd love to hear more about your philosophy on all of that. Like,

are you are you someone that micromanages? Are you someone that's

micromanages? Are you someone that's very good at hiring managers to manage sort of like junior staff?

Yeah. So, I I would say, you know, I'm quite involved in every bits of the business, right? So I've always been

business, right? So I've always been very very hands-on operationally. Yeah.

Uh with every you know marketing operations yeah finance a lot of different aspects. So uh and especially

different aspects. So uh and especially at this early stage right so I'm giving you example right when I [snorts] was at yeah group and this is 2010 2013 right I was like very hands-on operationally

because again we're scaling very fast and then but everything after the three years we scale very fast then in 2014 yeah I was probably working like three days a week right. So I think early on

the founder ha must be hands-on in everything. Uh because

everything. Uh because the reality is the founders just has a very different mentality and the founder can't afford to take the risk where a lot of times the employees the reality

is they cannot afford to take that risk because they don't want no take that risk.

Have you always been programmed this way like hands-on 110%. Is that something you built up over your career?

Yeah, I've been always very hands-on.

Uh, even when I was doing my first business in a restaurant, I was buying like, you know, mangoes and watermelons in 6:00 a.m. in the morning, right? I

was going to the fruit markets. Yeah.

But it doesn't seem like you don't want to be hands-on. Like speaking from my own experience, I'm very hands-on in my business, but I'm dreaming of a day where I don't have to be hands-on.

Correct. Yes. I I I dream of that too.

Yes. But I think it depends on what area of the business you are, right? So as

mentioned like in three four years time, I shouldn't be, right? But at the early stage because

right? But at the early stage because the brand, the consumers, the team, they'll follow this type of you know founder culture. Uh I think that is very

founder culture. Uh I think that is very important early days.

Yeah. Do you have a very strong philosophy on inperson? Obviously you

have an office here in Hong Kong um versus remote strong preferences that way.

I I used to have a very strong opinion uh but of course those things change. I

used to have have a strong opinion that you should be in office you no remote etc etc right but now I've changed uh my thinking because the reality is you know

you're not going to be always able to get the best people [snorts] if you have a philosophy about everyone has to be in Hong Kong right yeah and right now at the end of the day you know it's so easy

with communications and etc that everyone can be remote um as long as you hire the right people that are motivated and and constantly want to learn and constantly push themselves.

Last sort of like soft question for you and then I want to pivot completely into something else. But on a personal level,

something else. But on a personal level, how much do you sleep? You seem like such a busy guy.

Yeah. Coincidentally, funny thing is uh the other day my four-year-old daughter asked me, it's like, "Daddy, do you sleep?"

sleep?" Yeah. [laughter] Cuz cuz sometimes

Yeah. [laughter] Cuz cuz sometimes she'll wake up at like you 12:30 a.m.

and etc. And then I'm still out in, you know, she'll still see me awake and working right?

Yeah.

Uh, yeah. So,

I would say I'm always on, right? But I

I sleep like, you know, some days like 3 4 hours. Yeah.

4 hours. Yeah.

So, you can function on three hours.

I can function on three hours. Yeah.

Because I take double dosage of [laughter] good. Good. Um, but do you like again I

good. Good. Um, but do you like again I can speak from my experience when I when I sleep less the next day or very soon I got to sleep more. I got to catch that up. How

sleep more. I got to catch that up. How

do you like Are you just good on 3 hours? You don't need to recoup that

hours? You don't need to recoup that sleep.

No, I definitely I I love sleeping actually. Right. Yeah. I really like

actually. Right. Yeah. I really like sleeping but yeah sometimes especially because I think recently again you running a public listed company it there's a lot of evening calls I have to

do. So even like last night my last call

do. So even like last night my last call ended at 12:30 a.m. Right. And the

problem with that is then your mind doesn't go to sleep right away and then end up sleeping at like Yeah. Then I

check my share price, right? Then you

end up sleeping at like 3:30, right? So

last night I slept like 3:30 4 and you wake up at like 8.

Yeah. So

and and this isn't like a trick question by any means, but do you think that that level of intensity is required to run a successful startup?

It depends what you want to achieve, right? At the end of the day, what's

right? At the end of the day, what's your goals? I think if you want to build

your goals? I think if you want to build a big global business, you have to have that level of intensity. But some people may not want that, right? So it depends

what that what you mean by success. If

you know, for example, let's say this year I just [snorts] want to build a you know 100 million annual business. Very

easy. I can probably do that in my sleep, right? Yeah. But what we want to

sleep, right? Yeah. But what we want to create I mean this year we've already ply mentioned hey we want to hit 200 million fourear revenue by the end of the year we want to hit 25 million

monthly uh revenue so to be able to do that then it takes another level of intensity u you got push you got to push right yeah

shifting gears completely you know one of the most interesting things I think about IM8 is that it's run in a public company

that's obviously totally not the norm in DTOC. Most people if you go to a

DTOC. Most people if you go to a conference in e-commerce don't even tell you what their revenue is.

Um so I'm just curious like how did you accomplish that and what was the nuance of the the public company? Yeah, the

public company again, Prrenetics wise, right? Um, we went public back in middle

right? Um, we went public back in middle of 2022.

[snorts] Um, and interesting story and when we went public, we were you Hong Kong's first, you know, billion dollar company to list on the NASDAQ. Um, after

listing, you know, to be fair, our co business, yeah, plummeted, you know, by 95%. Uh, we then in the last few years,

95%. Uh, we then in the last few years, any our lowest market cap was like [snorts] 50 million, right? So, we went from billion to 50 million market cap.

So, you really know who your friends are at that time.

That's crazy.

Because when we were at Billy, I had so many friends. Yeah. Uh and and then but

many friends. Yeah. Uh and and then but of course, you have your friends that really stuck with you at the time.

How quickly did that happen?

It was like we went from I think a billion market cap I think and we probably went to like I don't even 200 million within the 12 months after then

24 months after I think we went to like 50 million. And you know crazy thing is

50 million. And you know crazy thing is even you know since we launched IMA in this past 12 months we went from 50 million now our we're all all-time highs within the last 12 months now we're up

to you know 300 million plus market cap and what's the dynamic there I mean is that a competitive advantage or is that I mean obviously all competitive advantage in terms of like

I mean access to capital oh yeah I mean I think that's yeah so yeah I mean I think from a capital position wise I think we're in a very unique position uh that we do have access to capital. Um on our balance

sheet, you know, we have already 70 million cash. I have another 510 in

million cash. I have another 510 in Bitcoin. I have zero debt. Uh and again,

Bitcoin. I have zero debt. Uh and again, we've been very capital efficient also in terms of how we spend money. Even

last year, you know, our Q1 again all all these numbers are public, right?

Hey, we lost six million, Q1, Q2 4 million, Q3 2 million. So, it's actually Yeah. The burn is getting cut as we

Yeah. The burn is getting cut as we scale. Yeah, I mean and I'm I'm talking

scale. Yeah, I mean and I'm I'm talking about sort of competitive advantage in the sense where again like you said all your numbers are public. This is you know totally different in the world that

I live in which is sort of people don't even people don't share revenue. People don't want to

revenue. People don't want to they don't want to give you anything you know because they're uh not confident necessarily in the business that they built. Maybe someone can dup it. Maybe

built. Maybe someone can dup it. Maybe

someone can copy it, copy your funnels, copy your ad creative, whatever. On the

other hand, you're just like here's everything. Mhm.

everything. Mhm.

That level of confidence actually I think is again one of the most impressive things about you.

It's just it's almost like a it's almost like a dare like try and copy me like go for it.

Yeah. I mean correct. I mean we actually push even we actually on our website [snorts] right which is also very rare.

We actually list out manufacturers online.

Yeah. on a website, you find it and you and then that because at the end of the day in my entrepreneurial career-wise, I I never I would say when someone copies,

I I actually believe it's a it's a great sign, right? It's a form of flattery.

sign, right? It's a form of flattery.

Yeah. Exactly. Right. So, but ultimately even when I did like you buy in in Hong Kong 2010, right, just to share that experience, you know, there was 57 competitors doing exactly the same thing on group buying.

Yeah.

Right. But we were always the number one in market leader and that's why you know group one when they came international they acquired us because we were the market leader because at the end of the day people can copy key concepts but I

think for uswise we really thought out the whole customer journey the experience I mean I don't think anyone's going to get another David Beckham anytime soon right is it is it does it

limit your ability to pivot like let's say tomorrow you want to change I don't know the mission or or something you know obviously your share price reacts accordingly.

I is that a limiting factor for you?

No, I wouldn't say a limiting factor, right? Because I to be fair right now

right? Because I to be fair right now we've already found our very sweet spot and even for myself as an entrepreneur, right? I really feel this is where I can

right? I really feel this is where I can really excel just given my consumer background and my last 10 years being in the life sciences background. If I

didn't have this last 15 years before launching IMA, IMA, there's no chance IMA could have went in terms of this type of trajectory.

Yeah. And I mean again, you you mentioned this, but the Bitcoin strategy. I know you've stopped doing

strategy. I know you've stopped doing that, but tell me about that like how did that happen? Was it just sort of a conviction on Bitcoin as a investment?

I'm asking for some of I'm asking on behalf of maybe more junior or smaller e-commerce brands that do build cash balances but don't have the courage or the conviction to then take the cash and

buy a different asset. Um

yeah so when about that yeah so I think uh when we did that that was last June right uh when we did that and again that time wise again we had we knew the business was growing was doing about maybe four or five million on a

monthly basis [snorts] right uh we had excess cash and again you know me being in a yeah you always trying to think outside the box and yeah because we're you constantly doing like fixed deposits

at like you know three and a half 4% I was like there must be something better that we can do with our capital uh so we decided to you know start buying Bitcoin Right. And we started buying Bitcoin

Right. And we started buying Bitcoin last June. At [snorts] one point we're

last June. At [snorts] one point we're buying one Bitcoin on a daily basis. Um

and we've actually remember the price of Bitcoin during this time.

This was I think when we started was probably about 90,000 to even 120,000 at the peak, right? Um of course now it's

come down a bit. Uh and now we hold 510 Bitcoin on the balance sheet. Uh but

what we've also announced you last month in the before the end of last year was [snorts] that we've actually stopped buying Bitcoin and we're just going to keep it on the balance sheet and the main reason for that is that you know

with the tremendous growth of IM8 which was also surpassed my own expectations um it just complicated our story because then when I again as being a a public

company CEO you know the first question people asked me or at least institutional investors ask me retail they love the story Right. Yeah. But

ultimately, you know, you want to get to institutions.

Uh institutional investors, they feel that it complicated our growth story, which we fear is true.

Yeah.

Right. And so we made the decision, you know, hey, you know what? Let's just

focus on IMA, keep that on the balance sheet and just, you know, have that core focus.

Yeah. Because again, with every dollar, it's an opportunity cost, right? You

could buy Bitcoin, you could invest it into growing the team. Yes. Product

development, new license or certifications.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

And so, you know, that's something you essentially put on pause and now you're putting all assets all in.

Yeah. And not just put on pause, just like not doing it, right? Yeah. Full

stop. Right. Correct. And just I think it's um with [snorts] IMA, even my own entrepreneur career, my I've invested in multiple, you know, companies that have done very well.

It's very rare that we have this opportunity where you have amazing product fit. People love the product. We

product fit. People love the product. We

have 10,000 plus five star reviews. You

have amazing scient scientific advisory board. Uh the e-commerce piece, the

board. Uh the e-commerce piece, the performance piece, the ambassadors, you know, just having, you know, David with Arena, you know, we we just signed on a

F1 driver as well. Uh we haven't announced uh we're speaking, you know, to a few players in in the NBA, MLB, and it's quite crazy just the level of interest because typically [snorts] at

this level, they're not just going to work with some, you know, random supplement company, right? Yeah. uh

because a lot of it is is their reputation and just being able to have this global opportunity to make such a big difference in in people's lives is

very very rare.

I want to ask you about I mean it's all been so successful, right? Like it's

been it seems like just a a soaring rocket ship and that's so exciting and um you know I can tell you again speaking from people in the e-commerce community, it's it's like ecom darling.

Mhm.

I mate, but I'd love to hear what's been hard, what's been challenging, whatever you can share, but like what have the moments that have not been just this insane amount of success.

Mhm.

Yeah. I mean, I think there's many moments, right, to be fair, right? It's

like there's there's many moments. Um I

think of course, you know, the team you me you mentioned, right? So, you know, last year we had to, you know, let go some of our team members. What doesn't

wasn't the right fit. So when you let go of team members is always difficult right so new team members replacing team members I think logistics customer

service we've had issues right uh yeah so I think there will all be here [snorts] if at this at this scale in terms of how

fast we grown I think you should expect lots of problems I think the key thing is how fast do you resolve these problems right and ultimately not affecting that

I always say e-commerce is essentially just a test of perseverance. The most

successful entrepreneurs are essentially just the best at eating for a really long period of time and just taking problems in stride dealing with it in you very quickly.

Yeah. And you have to learn you have to learn very quickly, right? Again, it's

like, hey, even now from a marketing perspective, right? Again, you know,

perspective, right? Again, you know, that's something that we're looking into. Hey, you know, how do we Yeah.

into. Hey, you know, how do we Yeah.

scale our ads, right? How do we think about Yeah. Uh uh yeah. um how do we

about Yeah. Uh uh yeah. um how do we think about new channels right how do we think about ad creatives right because I think now it's getting more and more difficult yeah uh because everyone's

using AI right all the competition is using AI so I think it's really important to maintain that authenticity in terms of our brand our product the stories that we're pushing out u so all

of these different things are challenges because yeah we can you know go from you [snorts] know zero to 100 in in whatever you know less than 12 months but I told the team now you the real challenge

begins, right? Because last year we set

begins, right? Because last year we set the foundation, but now we have to prove that we can actually do it at scale and do it again because I'm sure there's a lot of people that doubt us, right?

Whatever. You know, you guys did it fluke or something.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. David Beckham,

whatever, right? Etc. So, uh, and now say our opportunity to prove that we can execute at scale and then ultimately of course then be profitable as at the same

time. Is the growth strategy um new

time. Is the growth strategy um new products at all or more geos?

Um so I would think multiple. So of

course you know this year again we're still seeing strong growth in in terms of our our markets that we operate in.

You know for example you know top five markets are US, UK, Canada, Australia and Hong Kong and then Singapore and UAE right top seven markets. So we're still seeing significant growth in each of

these markets which gives us confidence that this can continue to scale right because if you think [snorts] about US market right I mean yeah last year we did yeah 60 million but only 45 40% of

that in US so but US can easily do two to 300 million right easy that means we're still significant upside in each of these

markets so geographies skills again I'm very patient and strategic when we launch launch new skills because it's not the product, right? It's that how does this product

right? It's that how does this product fit into the brand story and the challenge is sometimes people introduce too many products too soon and then you lose that edge, right? Because again,

right now it's like even if I had two products tomorrow, I wouldn't push them out.

Yeah.

Um [snorts] uh but we are going to have you know two to three ski two to three new skills later this year. And I think our philosophy is also for any skill

that we push out, it needs to be the best product in the market, right? And

what I mean by that is that people need to validate it. They can go into chatbt or whatever AI system and say, "Hey, you know, what's the best product? Compare

these ingredients side by side." Um, and yeah, is that best again only feel free to share whatever you can, but are these new products in powders or are you breaking out into new

forms? Um it would be powders

forms? Um it would be powders predominantly right uh again some people have asked me you know are you guys going to do RTDs and etc right which is a legitimate question I think for us is

really important to stay focused and continue to doing what we're good at because even RTDs you ready to do drinks is a completely different business totally different right totally different I think at one point

it's almost as different as running a warehouse yeah exactly right it could be very it could be something that we do in the next three to five years But not anytime soon.

Yeah.

Uh because again people don't understand the complexities of operating different businesses.

Yeah. I think another trap so to speak in DTO to see supplements is also following trends.

You know for example protein is seeing a huge moment. Creatine is seeing a huge

huge moment. Creatine is seeing a huge moment. NADS and so forth. But you seem

moment. NADS and so forth. But you seem like you're going really evergreen allin-one every like solutions that are more everyday not trend driven. Is that fair to say?

trend driven. Is that fair to say?

Yeah, fair. Yeah, fair to say. Yeah.

Okay.

Um I guess last question and then I want to go into a different sort of like subsection. Um highlight of the last 12

subsection. Um highlight of the last 12 to 14 months or so when you look at this journey. Is there something that stands

journey. Is there something that stands out? Was it you know signing David

out? Was it you know signing David signing with David Beckham or or what was it?

I mean there's been so many right there's been so many. I mean, what comes to mind is like getting, you know, when we first launched [snorts] uh the website online, right? I mean, it was literally like, yeah, 2:30 a.m. we

pushed a button to to go online and then we're looking the orders because the reality is like, you know, you know, you launch a great, but you don't really know if people will buy.

Yeah, of course.

Right. Um, and then, you know, within like an hour, we had like five people buy, right? So, I think that was a

buy, right? So, I think that was a highlight. We had like a team of like 10

highlight. We had like a team of like 10 people still in the office at like 2:30 a.m., right? Um then of course you those

a.m., right? Um then of course you those initial period of time and again then once you I think first moments is you once you start seeing the impact of the product that people have on it um then

that's kind of like it it feels you and of course then as a result the business stay strong right I think the moment where again yeah arena yeah coming to me

to on the product that's like amazing you can't there's there's no better story on that right just how organic is and how amazing even her whole team uses the product. Their their parents use the

the product. Their their parents use the product, right? And it's crazy that you

product, right? And it's crazy that you know if you watch your arena on Australian Open or any of the tennis matches, her whole team is wearing IMA caps.

Yeah. You didn't ask them to do that originally. I didn't ask them to do it,

originally. I didn't ask them to do it, right? Because they just love the

right? Because they just love the product.

Mhm.

Are you the kind of founder, just out of curiosity that's checking sales throughout the day, like going into your back end or Shopify or whatever that's like refreshing sales or you No, we have we have a system for that.

So we get naturally like you know a channel uh systems on a daily basis you know the the revenue data uh the rows you know on all the metrics that you would expect to check on right

breakdown on sales country sales so it's automated right so I don't have to go in and check anything but I am the type okay if I have a question about something yeah I rather check the system

right and just to understand it okay like access to all the tools yeah makes sense We've kind of assumed that everyone knows IM8, but for those of you or for

those that don't know what immate is, can you explain it? Do you want to show the product?

Sure. I mean, to be fair, there's so many people that still don't know what immate is, right? Um,

yeah, but again, you see this is the packaging. Um, you guys can see it on

packaging. Um, you guys can see it on the screen. So, again, we Yeah, we chose

the screen. So, again, we Yeah, we chose a red color, right? Because we felt it was very iconic. Um, there's a lot of stories behind this color. Um again we didn't want to just create a green there

wasn't really any we wanted to own a color right and even the names as you sure it means you know I am and then eight if you flip it around is longevity right and there's like octagon shaped

dots so these are not dots so there was a lot being thought out even from the brand perspective right so when you open the box here you see I am so you can fill it in your own name you I am

healthy I am great I'm powerful etc etc whatever you want it to be um Then I think we've you get this very nice pack where you know you you open it. This

gives you kind of like an information booklet and you get some cards you know David Beckham you get arena you get Dr. on you get our other scientific advis

boards. So you get the supplement facts

boards. So you get the supplement facts panel. So you have everything to get

panel. So you have everything to get started because again we want to give people a journey into you know their health solution right and then you have you know this and this is what you call

the Beckham stack right so the Beckham stack includes our hero product the daily ultimate essentials and you got 16 different supplements in one you have the daily ultimate longevity so it's 10

key compounds to target slowing down the aging process and you get a shaker so what I do every day is I actually put two shachets into one glass uh two shets

into the shaker and just shake it up and just drink it and then I'm good for the day. It's

day. It's amazing. It's the packaging is stunning.

amazing. It's the packaging is stunning.

Yeah. If you could give advice to young founders starting off in e-commerce or in entrepreneurship

broadly speaking, what would that be?

I I would say you know whatever industry you you are on. Yeah. Just talk to people. talk to other experienced

people. talk to other experienced founders that have done it. Yeah. And

basically get advice there because then you'll be able to, you know, limit the amount of mistakes that you make as a young founder, right? And again, from a product perspective, make sure that whatever product you're selling is that

[snorts] it really solves a problem and there's a need and a demand in the market, right? So what's that USP? There

market, right? So what's that USP? There

has to be something differentiated about your product. If it's just exactly the

your product. If it's just exactly the same, no one's going to care, right? I'm

giving you example even, you know, for example in in uh last year and yeah even Liono Messi la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la launched a hydration drink called mass plus right and it was very similar to

prime but even though you have L Messi but it's very similar to prime so it wasn't differentiated no matter that you have yeah 500 million followers on Instagram right so it didn't really do well in the marketplace right so make

sure that you have something highly defensible and I think from a capital perspective you have to raise enough capital that you that you'll be able to

uh be able to spend marketing, right?

Because you don't want to be in a situation where, hey, you have great product market fit, etc., etc., you know, but then you don't have enough money on marketing, then you you're going to be in a very difficult position.

If you're a firsttime founder, is there a sweet spot in that capital? Cuz

obviously you don't want to raise too much or too little to your point. Yeah.

You know, let's say you're talking to a 25-year-old person that's starting off and you say, "Hey, raise capital." But

what does that like ballpark range look like? I I would say I mean I think at a

like? I I would say I mean I think at a minimum these days you have to have like Yeah. 250 to 500,000.

Yeah. 250 to 500,000.

Yeah.

Right. Uh

that's the exact range I tell people.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Something that otherwise if you have like 50 grand like what can you do with 50 grand leds, right? You'll

get burned fast.

Yeah. You get burned fast and it's a waste of time, right?

Do you think that supplements and sort of like the subscription business is the big leagues? Like again, you can burn

big leagues? Like again, you can burn cash really quickly. I always say if you're a first- time founder, subscription is not where you want to start.

Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, because subscription wise again is a very different aspect too because you're you're building for the long term, right? And ultimately the product has to work, right? So maybe for some founders they

right? So maybe for some founders they may not know so much about the product development or what's the product wise, right? Yeah. So subscriptions also it

right? Yeah. So subscriptions also it really depends you again even for us.

Yeah. Doesn't matter. We have David Beckham Marina or whoever they're not going to continue to subscribe and pay 200 bucks on a monthly basis is if the product doesn't work.

Yeah.

Right. It doesn't matter who you have on your team. Yeah.

your team. Yeah.

Um, okay. I'm going to ask you a series of rapid fire questions. Just quick

hits. Would love your POV on on these.

So, I'll have my phone up, but this is all um just fast ones. Uh, favorite

brand that's not yours.

A favorite brand that's Yeah. I mean, I would say Yeah. favorite brand. Yeah.

[snorts] In any any industry.

Let's say e-commerce.

Yeah. E-commerce. Uh so I would say I I looked up to you know I did a lot of research and studying with what Audi is doing. Do you guys know Audi? Yeah.

doing. Do you guys know Audi? Yeah.

Yeah. So they launch Il Kamel Makiage Spoil they just launch a new brand called like method as well. So a lot of their things that they're doing is like you know really really good.

Favorite software tool that's changed your business.

Uh Manis. Yeah I was a very early adopter of Manis.

Nice.

And yeah Manis has been a game changer for me. Right. And for me and like every

for me. Right. And for me and like every individual employee that yeah it's like I use it like two hours a day.

Nice.

Favorite operator to learn from.

Favorite operator.

Um I don't I wouldn't say I have a favorite operator but even for me I you know sometimes I spend a lot of time I wouldn't say a lot of time but I just even on LinkedIn or on X and I'm just reading a lot of these different threads

in terms of new tools that are available. Um, and also the fact I I

available. Um, and also the fact I I there's only one podcast I listen to and it's the Neil Patel and Eric Seal podcast because they're always talking about new tools that they're using because they're like so many, right?

Which ones do you actually use and sometimes uh yeah, they mention these new tools though which then I tested out and try and etc. Yeah.

Uh most underrated founder habit.

Most underrated founder habit. What do

you mean like things that a founder does that they don't get enough credit for? For

example, like checking unit economics or checking with the you know visiting the 3PL regularly or whatever.

I I think it's just I mean kind of early on I think you have to be very hands-on.

Yeah. Um, I think that of course some people you can say you can say you're too hands-on, but I think if a brand is any less than 3 years old, the founder is so important and they're going the

ones that going to be you make or break the business, right?

Yeah.

And lastly, favorite city in the world as far as like business community.

That I mean I I I love Hong Kong, right?

So I grew up in the US. Uh, but you know, Hong Kong, I think, is amazing because it had everything literally.

Yeah. At your footsteps, right? The

food's amazing, the commutate, the transportation safetiness everything.

I think Hong Kong's the best.

Agreed.

Yeah.

Danny, thank you so much. This was

great.